How to Investigate, Detect Lies, and Catch a Catfish with the Dating Detectives

We all know women are the FBI when it comes to dating, and we are diving in deep with the hosts of The Dating Detectives podcast – private investigator Mackenzie Fultz and comedian Hanna Anderson. We discuss how to catch liars, cheaters, catfishes, and DOGfishes, how to find someone online, the number one red flag when newly dating someone, why you can never trust a photo, "Are we dating the same guy?" Facebook groups, and when to be suspicious if a guy tells you his ex was crazy or he's cheated in the past. We also discuss the day-to-day of being a PI and how to become one (for Ashley), and we break down two unsolved dating mysteries – one wild listener submission and one mind-boggling experience a male friend of ours had. Before our guests join us, we're talking about cheap guys, farting in front of your partner, and a dining experience we keep having that would only happen in LA. Enjoy! Check out The Dating Detectives podcast. Follow Hanna on Instagram @hannaadergram and Mackenzie @freedom_barbie. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for live show tickets and more. Thank you to our partners this week: Shopify: See how easy it is to start your own business today at shopify.com/gge. Rocket Money: Reach your financial goals faster at rocketmoney.com/gge. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is totally someone who was not who they said they were from the beginning. It was a man. Guaranteed it was another dude.

• 0:06Rayna Greenberg?

  No way.

• 0:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  I wanted to say hi in Singaporean, but there's

• 0:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you do it?

• 0:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  They just say hi.

• 0:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, you could say

• 0:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Get out of here.

• 0:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's very multicultural. Like, I'm not going to say ni hao. I would love to, but like, I'm not.

• 0:42Rayna Greenberg?

  You're not going to appropriate hello in Singapore.

• 0:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's, there's not like a universal hello. I even just asked our friend who's Singaporean. She said, I say hi.

• 0:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I had never knew this.

• 0:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  A bunch of different languages spoke there.

• 0:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Hebrew, Hebrew is the opposite. Shalom means hello and goodbye and peace. We have one word for all three.

• 0:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I love ni hao.

• 1:00Rayna Greenberg?

  It's cute.

• 1:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's cute. Are you going to try to like, learn the language?

• 1:04Rayna Greenberg?

  What language? I'm confused on the language.

• 1:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, it's a, so it's a melting pot. So you will find, like, it's, it's one of my favorite places to eat because you have so many Indian and Chinese and Japanese influences, Thai influences. Like, there's so many food influences because people moved there from all over.

• 1:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 1:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So anyway, I just got back. I'll recap it next week with a special guest host.

• 1:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Raina's getting a week off.

• 1:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I get a week off. Well, I took, I had a week off last week. Hope you guys enjoyed this snack with Indra Kahl. But while we're talking about languages, Raina, I have to tell you something that happened to me. I've been holding back. Something that happened to me for the second time is that we went to dinner last weekend and we think that we had a server who was doing a fake accent

• 1:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  for what we think is practicing for a role. So this happened one night at dinner. We, you and I and like Shashank and our friends Hallie and Billy all went to dinner. And the server came over and she was closest to me, but you guys could hear her, but I was like, the, the accents, they're all over the place. Like, it sounds a little Australian. It sounds a little British. It's really kind of chaotic. And she walked away and you and I were like, she's practicing for a role.

• 2:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Immediately. But then when she came back over and explained the specials, I couldn't, she kept oscillating in and out of like Harry Potter talk.

• 2:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh yeah. And Hallie is, her dad is British and she was like, she's talking like a child talks, like a, a British child.

• 2:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. And I couldn't make eye contact with anybody while she was speaking because I was like, this is a fake accent. This is crazy.

• 2:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we went to dinner, we had a little date night last weekend and she came over and she was super nice. And I got like a little British, but I also Australia, New Zealand. And I said, Shashank, what do you think? He goes, New Zealand, a hundred percent. I'm like,

• 2:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, like he could differentiate?

• 2:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, he was like, I'm pretty certain. So I was like, I'm asking because we didn't ask before. And so it got more chaotic as the night went on. Towards the end of the meal, I was like, where are you from? I love your accent. She said the UK. And I'm like, no bitch. Like,

• 3:02Rayna Greenberg?

  The UK? You thought it was Australian?

• 3:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Australia, New Zealand.

• 3:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause I feel like when people are learning that accent, they can oscillate between the two of those.

• 3:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  She had an answer locked and loaded that sounded so fake.

• 3:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Like Alex.

• 3:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  She said this village, something, something like she had an answer. Here's the thing.

• 3:19Rayna Greenberg?

  A village?

• 3:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm not, like a small town, two hours south of London, something. Here's the thing, we're not criticizing. We think this is a brilliant way to,

• 3:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Method act.

• 3:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Method act, but to practice.

• 3:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally.

• 3:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like I love, I live for this shit and only in LA. And when we cracked this code at dinner, we were so excited to like, understand what was happening. And then it happened to me again. And go off queens.

• 3:43Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I love it. You, I mean, if you're at work, double down on the work.

• 3:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just think it's like, if you're trying to work something out and you work in the restaurant industry or in customer service, work it out.

• 3:54Rayna Greenberg?

  You know what it reminds me of is comedians we know that have done like the New York City bus tours, that they like host the New York, did Shane Gillis used to do this?

• 4:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Was it Tim Dillon or Shane Gillis that used to like do this?

• 4:04Rayna Greenberg?

  And anytime you take one of those boat tours, like the Chicago architecture tour, also Seattle, it's comedians working out bits.

• 4:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Improv, especially in Chicago. It's like second city people.

• 4:13Rayna Greenberg?

  So funny.

• 4:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I know a comedian named Tom in New York. He's been a New York tour guide forever. So yeah, he can work his jokes out with the strangers tourists. So anyway, I had to, I was so excited to tell you, it's happening again.

• 4:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. Well, I hope it keeps happening while we still live here. Okay. Let's thank our partners. It's nice of me to tell you, thank you to Shopify. See how easy it is to start your own business today at Shopify.com slash GGE and Rocket Money. Reach your financial goals faster at rocketmoney.com slash GGE.

• 4:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  And thank you to Nutriful. Get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping at nutrafol.com with code GGE10.

• 4:47Rayna Greenberg?

  So the reason why I'm not coming back to LA this week is because I had to be on the East Coast for shows. I have two shows in Philly Wednesday night, two shows in DC Thursday night. And like, these are our favorite cities to perform in. We just like, love them so much. But Philly, one of the strippers that we always hire messaged me and said, for our girls got a show, and said, can I come to the show? Do you have extra tickets? And I was like, yeah, I'd love to have you. And I confirmed it to them this morning. He was like, all the guys want to come. Can I give them tickets?

• 5:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  The whole squad.

• 5:14Rayna Greenberg?

  And I was like, invite all of them. So that the 9:45 show, which I actually, it's the only one I have tickets left for. I think the strippers are gonna be there.

• 5:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Make them work.

• 5:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And I was like, incorporate them into the show.

• 5:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 5:26Rayna Greenberg?

  The second show on a Wednesday night, I think people need like a pick me up.

• 5:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  So Leon, who we love, he, he did come to my, he's so supportive.

• 5:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I know he did.

• 5:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  He came to my show on my tour last year, and I didn't make him work. But when he, but when he came in 2022 to the camel toe tour, and I was at the Punchline in Philly, I like, just called him out to acknowledge him and then was like, I don't know, like, let's play pony. And he started.

• 5:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  That show was chaotic. My parents made out on stage. It was like a whole thing.

• 5:57Rayna Greenberg?

  That's crazy. Your dad, your dad loves to just get up there, do something crazy.

• 6:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, let Leon stage. But yeah, so you could have them. You could do it.

• 6:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Although I think your cousin Lindsay and Buck are coming to the first show.

• 6:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm so sad.

• 6:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Just come.

• 6:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm jet lagged.

• 6:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm too tired.

• 6:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm too jet lagged. No, I really do feel bad. So I really, I swear I'm not coming.

• 6:21Rayna Greenberg?

  No, this is actually the first show she's sitting out of the tour. Philly's the first one you're not coming to.

• 6:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. I mean, we get back from this trip. We will have just gotten back. And listen, if you guys are like, that's such a short trip to go to Asia.

• 6:34Rayna Greenberg?

  We know.

• 6:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, I know. Please leave me alone. And I will discuss it next week with my husband. But I really just, it was, it would be so hard to make it work. And I'm so sad.

• 6:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Try to be happy that it happened, I guess. I'm not sad.

• 6:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I know. I'm happy for you.

• 6:53Rayna Greenberg?

  We were in the car and I had this epiphany. I was like, oh, we're just on tour together. I love it. I love it. It's great. So fun. So if you guys want tickets to that, rainagreenberg.com. Okay. And I, okay, so I have to tell you this story. I mean, you and I have talked about paying on dates a lot, but a girlfriend of ours told me this and I just sort of like wanted your take on it. Yeah. Okay, so our good friend, let me give you some details. She'd gone out of town on a work thing. She met this guy. They went out and she wasn't sure if it was a date or if it was just kind of like work related. We've all been there. Dale Moss.

• 7:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Some of the girls got to eat lore is when I went out with Dale Moss in my backpack and didn't know.

• 7:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, I just assume as a girl, you can turn anything into a date, but like how many of some of the- Take your pussy out? I touch people a lot, way more than you. People know that they're on a date with me. Yeah. No one's confused. I just start sucking their dick. They're like. So is this a date? Is this a date? I look up, I'm like, yeah, kinda. Do you like me? This is what I do at all my work events. Okay, so she didn't know. This is a work event. So yes, she's out of town. She goes out with this guy. She wasn't positive it was a date. She said it was like flirty, but whatever. They go home. So she's back in this city last week and he messaged her and said, can I take you out on a date? Like made it clear. And he was like, normally if I had had like more of a heads up, I would have planned something more fun for us or cooked for you at home. But like, I really do want to take you on a date. Is that okay? And she says, yes, great.

• 8:11Rayna Greenberg?

  And they go out and they go to this restaurant. They have two entrees, two apps, no drinks, not an expensive meal. That's what I'm saying to you. Okay. And she's like, he's flirty the whole time. He was like, I was, he acknowledges he wasn't sure if the last time was a date either. Oh, okay. But he's like, I do, I like, I want to make it clear. I'm, I'm into you. I like you. And he's like, great, okay. So they're on this date and the bill comes and she said that she superficially like kind of reaches for her purse. And he's like, yeah, I'll split it with you. No. And she was like, okay. And she pulls her card out and, and puts it in the thing. And the waiter comes over and is like, okay, so split it right down the middle. And this guy's like, yep, split it right down the middle. And.

• 8:52Rayna Greenberg?

  These are two people, by the way, with money. They both have money. We're not talking about people in their early twenties that like, it makes sense that you go out for an expensive meal.

• 8:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  He has a lot of money.

• 8:59Rayna Greenberg?

  He has a lot of money.

• 9:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  He has money too. I mean, but just to be clear, this is not some like person that needs financial help on a date that again, she wasn't drinking the house down or anything. She said she had no drinks, two ups, two on trips. It doesn't even fucking matter. Okay, yes.

• 9:12Rayna Greenberg?

  But I'm, what I'm saying to you is it wasn't a $300 date.

• 9:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly.

• 9:15Rayna Greenberg?

  It wasn't one person sober and the other person is four drinks, which I've been on dates like that. So afterwards, he was like, I had such a great time and I want to see you again. And please like, next time you're in town, like let me know, like give me more. Like likes her, is intentional about seeing her, wants her to know this is the date, but like, she said like with his whole chest. Cause I said to her, walk me through exactly, like she's so generous. I can see her being like, no, I insist. And she was like, I wasn't.

• 9:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. Cause if you say, no, I insist, they should let you. I, you know, then, but ladies, why are we doing that? Actually, I want to share that other story after this. Go ahead, go ahead.

• 9:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm just curious what you think about it. Like this guy was really intentional. This is a date. I like you. I'm into you. He picked a cool place to take her to like.

• 9:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Isn't he British?

• 10:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh, yeah, he's British.

• 10:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is it cultural? Are we like, I have to know. I think that everyone is going into dating situations, especially men, if they're kind of supposed to like lead, ask you out, make the plan pay. In the early stages, which we do think they should, they're basing however they're acting on past experiences. I don't know. Is he running into a lot of independent women who insist on paying? And so has he been in awkward situations before where a woman does offer and then he battles them and they, it's, it gets awkward. I, I don't want to defend it. What happened the first time with the bill? I cannot remember.

• 10:34Rayna Greenberg?

  She picked it up. She paid.

• 10:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  The bill the first time?

• 10:37Rayna Greenberg?

  But she said she wasn't sure if it was a work thing. So she put on her work card.

• 10:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So let's just assume this is their first date.

• 10:43Rayna Greenberg?

  First date.

• 10:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  He wants to make it clear. He likes her. He's taking her to a place. They have a reasonably priced dinner. You just pay. Like, I'm sorry, there's a million reasons. I don't need to defend this. We say this all the time, but a woman, she's less safe going out to meet with a man. She has no, she has done her hair and makeup. She spent money. She picked out an outfit. It doesn't even need to be like this. It should just be chivalrous and just be like, you want to impress her and turn her on in the early days. If they were to date, she would pay for stuff, he would pay for stuff. They both make money. They would have a great life together. You know, that's how the relationship that I want to be in, I am, and we both be paying for stuff. But like those early days, like you, what are you doing? You should know this turns women off.

• 11:25Rayna Greenberg?

  That's what I said, or I said, haven't we like kind of brow beaten men enough? Like, there's so much information on the internet now and TikToks just saying like, date one, just pay. And if you have a relationship, you will both oscillate paying. I don't think anybody owes me money. If I'm never going to see somebody again, I am reaching for my card. I am insisting on putting it down. Nobody owes me money. But a first date, it's just chivalry. And again, this guy has plenty of money. I haven't seen his bank account, but like, comes from family money, has a good job, makes money.

• 11:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And you know my stance, if we run around all night, I'll pick up the next round of drinks, maybe. But I've done it before. But that first time, this is their first technical date. What are you doing splitting it? I don't like to split the bill with my friends.

• 12:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I know me either.

• 12:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  If I go to especially a lunch, like, you know, Taylor and I, we go to Barry's, we go to lunch. Someone will get it or whatever it is. Like, you'll get it next time. Like, when you and I go to dinner, when we're together, we usually put it on our card and then friends will Venmo us if it was really expensive. Like, I get it, especially if you're younger and it really matters. I mean, I didn't used to be able to pick up the tab for people. But splitting the bill in general, at this nice place in Miami, one of the best restaurants in Miami, why are we even splitting? It's embarrassing.

• 12:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm curious, like, what that guy was trying to communicate to her. Cause it certainly wasn't that he couldn't afford it. And I think men know that you want them to pick up the check on a first date. And he seemed like he liked her. So to me, I'm like, if everything else is good, if he seemed like intentional and nice and he was fun to hang out with, what is this person trying to communicate to you by allowing you to pay for this? That's all I have to ask myself is like, what was he thinking? Cause men know that it turns us off.

• 12:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do they know that in London? Yeah.

• 13:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I think TikTok has reached Britain.

• 13:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know. Like, is, is, are there some slight cultural differences with, you know, a woman offers letter? That's why I'm not offering. I'm not doing the fake reach on a first date. Absolutely not.

• 13:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, my feeling is if I reach for my, if I reach for my card and I split it with somebody on a first date, we're just friends. That's what I'm communicating to you.

• 13:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. And if I insist on paying, I never want to see you again.

• 13:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Never. You're never touching me.

• 13:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's a bummer. It kind of takes the wind out of your sails.

• 13:26Rayna Greenberg?

  It does. Cause again, what I would have to do is this person doesn't like me and wants me to know that.

• 13:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 13:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Like when she said he looked at the waiter and was like, yep, right down the middle. I was like, oh, I felt that in my body.

• 13:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my gosh. We had a friend recently who, what was the story? Didn't she insist on that, like gluten free place? Like she took him to some like.

• 13:45Rayna Greenberg?

  It was like gluten free.

• 13:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  But it was really bad.

• 13:48Rayna Greenberg?

  It was bad and it was gluten free.

• 13:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know. It was the whole restaurant gluten free. Whatever she took him to, it was bad.

• 13:54Rayna Greenberg?

  She did victim blame herself.

• 13:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  And she insisted on paying.

• 13:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  And he let her and she thought it was a little bit of a red flag. But I'm like, I don't know, girl. You drug me to that place and had a bad meal. You're, you can pay.

• 14:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  There was some other layer of it too. She asked us if it was a red flag that he let her. And when we got all of the information, we said no, which is rare.

• 14:18Rayna Greenberg?

  We blamed her. See, we will blame women sometimes.

• 14:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, we were like, no, you were in your right to pay and it's okay that he didn't.

• 14:24Rayna Greenberg?

  You ruined everybody's fun. You also didn't have sex with them after.

• 14:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  There was also something else too. Whatever it was, all the details of the story. We were like, no, you know, sometimes it's okay.

• 14:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. When you ruin everybody's time.

• 14:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. What, is she gonna go out with him again?

• 14:39Rayna Greenberg?

  I guess so.

• 14:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Don't do the reach. See what happens.

• 14:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I said, I haven't reached in years.

• 14:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't even, if you get to date me, you are so lucky. I will take care of you forever. I have somebody staying with me right now. I sent him like the nicest message. There's food in the fridge for you. Help yourself. Make yourself at home. Here's where this at and the other. People are so lucky to just be in my airspace. Like all you should do is pay for a couple of dates. I love to cook. I love to give blowjobs. I wish I would find somebody as obsessed with me as I am with me.

• 15:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, yeah, you're, you're a great wife.

• 15:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  You don't blow me, but you know, I can vouch for all the other things. Okay. So it is funny though.

• 15:15Rayna Greenberg?

  You don't like board jobs.

• 15:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Shashank pays for, I mean, 90% of our meals out and he always has. And I pay for other stuff and we have a good thing going, you know? But I do sometimes like to treat him to dinner, like if it's his birthday, you know, there's times when I'm like, it's my treat.

• 15:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I like those stuff. People do anal on birthdays and you're like, I will pay for dinner.

• 15:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  But whatever, there might be something like, listen, I want to go to this place. I want to, you know, I do, I pay sometimes and I always, I don't know. I always feel a little weird. Like the server's like, oh, I see what's going on.

• 15:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just, I don't know. Say I'm a fake feminist. Like this is when I am old fashioned. Like when I turn over my card, I'm like, oh, they probably think that I'm like his sugar mama and I'm older and like all the things. I don't know. I feel a little weird about it. I don't like it.

• 16:06Rayna Greenberg?

  He doesn't like it either.

• 16:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's got salt and pepper hair. He really doesn't want me to pay, but sometimes I insist. And in those moments, I almost regret it.

• 16:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Cause you're like, everyone here thinks you're a beta. The servers are all talking about you. You didn't even blink when I handed the card over. You're like, no, no, no, I'm married. The server's like, I don't care.

• 16:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  So anyway, I mean, I don't, whatever you think about this is just like an interesting thing. They should go out again and she should not do the fake reach and see what happens.

• 16:30Rayna Greenberg?

  I agree.

• 16:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  He has money. He wanted to take her out.

• 16:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. He reached out.

• 16:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  She got ready for this. She spent money on this. She already spent her share.

• 16:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Also, she doesn't even live in that city. And I think that there's like a little bit more.

• 16:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 16:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Like I'm out of town. I'm staying in a hotel.

• 16:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's so true.

• 16:43Rayna Greenberg?

  A hotel. Then he said to her, oh my God, one more thing. He was like, when are you free next? You should come back down.

• 16:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, she lives in a cold place. He lives in a warm place.

• 16:52Rayna Greenberg?

  And he was like, you should come back down soon. So she's got to fly back there. The way I would never reach for a card if I flew somewhere.

• 17:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  A hundred percent. The cheapest guy I ever dated, I mean, there's a big backstory and we dated in Atlanta and then he moved to another city and we fired things back up, whatever. I like, thought he was the one that got away for a minute because I broke up with him the first time. So anyway, I go visit him. I'm like so excited. We've been sexting. He was like A plus sexter. Like we had this whole thing. I was so excited. Fly to see him, get there and I had a friend with me and we go to the bar and he let me open my own tab. Insanity. I have flown here to see you. I mean, there were so many other cheap things about him. It was like shocking. It was such a bummer, but I have flown here on an airplane.

• 17:36Rayna Greenberg?

  That's insane.

• 17:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  You should pick up the tab for me and my friend right now. You also want to impress her, like.

• 17:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Turn me on.

• 17:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  We were in like a dive bar. Yeah.

• 17:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Turn me on. Please act like a gentleman, by the way. Do you remember that all three of these are the same city? Okay. So years ago on like Valentine's Day, I think Valentine's Day 2021, we were all together in this city and my one friend was supposed to go down there with her boyfriend. He canceled last minute. So she flew down and took the trip with us.

• 18:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 18:03Rayna Greenberg?

  And it was, it was the three of us and another girlfriend. So four girls. He does finally fly down. We're all getting drinks. The bill comes for a couple of drinks and he asks the server to split it up among the checks. And I was like, you motherfucker. I gave your girlfriend a hotel room to stay in after you canceled on her. You're not going to pick up our drinks?

• 18:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Actually, this is an interesting conversation. I saw this, I think on Tik Tok and it was this, the sentiment that if a man is out with his girlfriend, wife, fiance, and there's a tab that he should pick it up for everybody. And I don't know if I agree with that. And actually I thought the comments, I mean, I'm sure there's thousands of comments. So there was a mixed bag, but a lot of people were like, yeah, if there, someone's man's at the table, he's picking up the tab for everybody. And I was like, no, a round of drinks, yes. Like everybody's dinner. I don't really think my man needs to be on the hook for all my friends dinners.

• 18:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, fuck no. I just mean like a couple, also that was a unique situation. I'd paid for his girlfriend's hotel room.

• 19:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  I thought about this and I was like, that's interesting. I'm surprised a lot of the comments are kind of this like, you better pay for me and my friends energy. Like, yeah. That round of drinks, you look good and Shashank always wants to do that, but we go to dinner. Maybe there's it's somehow is like three or four girls and him. I don't expect him to grab that tab. And I actually haven't really experienced that too many times.

• 19:26Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so I I'm always I'm always third wheeling as somebody who's always third wheeling. When I have gone out with my friends, so like I went out with two friends to Beethoven Market recently. Like she and I had been together all day. She had dinner plans with him. He invited me to come with them. We sat at the bar. We didn't order that much food and I had one drink and he picked up the tab and was like, you don't have to pay me back. I'm not going to make you 60 dollars.

• 19:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  One person.

• 19:46Rayna Greenberg?

  That's different.

• 19:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  The first time the three of us went out, me and Shashank went to Owa. He insisted on paying for you. Like he loves to pay for you, whatever. But it's like a group. I'm like, eh, they're good.

• 19:56Rayna Greenberg?

  No, that's different. And also it's like, are these things going to be reciprocated? Like this particular couple, he had been to my place for parties. I've hosted him lots of times. Him picking up 60 bucks for me, fine.

• 20:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  But yes, when that guy came down and there was a few, we had just had one drink each. And he insisted on splitting it up. It was so awkward. And yes, like you'd said, like he had kind of fucked his girlfriend up with her travel plans and you gave her a place to stay. Like, of course he wasn't clocking that.

• 20:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Insane. Okay. You know what? Men should just know how horny it makes you when you do stuff like that.

• 20:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's the thing.

• 20:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. Do you remember when we were in Vegas, that guy showed up and picked?

• 20:32Rayna Greenberg?

  That was insane. I think we bankrupted him. He showed up, he picked up the tab for for five of us to have dinner at Mother Wolf.

• 20:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Um, Vegas.

• 20:40Rayna Greenberg?

  So hot.

• 20:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think that was all the money he had in the world.

• 20:44Rayna Greenberg?

  I think he had just come into some money and thank God for for that. No, it was crazy. And he didn't eat much. Like he showed up late to the dinner.

• 20:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we had already actually like made decisions on the whole bill and everything. He just swooped in and paid.

• 20:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Listen, it is hot and I recommend it.

• 21:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  That guy, later on, we were having sex. I threw up while we were having sex and I let him finish. Because I was like, you deserve it.

• 21:09Rayna Greenberg?

  He like, yes, came in hot in a suit, picked up the tab in an expensive restaurant in Vegas. We had been drinking and eating. We'd ordered the whole menu for five girls and he was like, I got it. I was like, well, I'll suck your dick.

• 21:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's in prison now.

• 21:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I do think he might be in prison.

• 21:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's on heroin. Well, wait, I saw Elizabeth Holmes tweeted from prison. What is going on in these prisons? Do you watch social media?

• 21:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, no, Joe Exotic from Tiger King, the Tiger King is always tweeting and on Facebook and stuff. You do have access to social media from prison. This is news to me. Oh, so I knew this because this guy who I dated in high school, who was supposed to be like a professional Major League Baseball player, but instead he became a drug dealer and went to prison.

• 21:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hot.

• 21:56Rayna Greenberg?

  He's so hot.

• 21:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Smash or pass?

• 22:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Smash then pass. Yeah, he posts photos from jail, like with him and all of his friends in jail.

• 22:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, can we just deep dive on this in a sec? I need more information on social media privileges in jail.

• 22:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I was like, who took photos of you in your prison outfits with all your friends? Like in gay, how'd you get the photos?

• 22:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Maybe prison isn't so bad. Okay, so I have one thing to share. Raina already knows this, but we're going to recap it for you guys. Something happened last weekend in my relationship. Something that hadn't happened yet, and this was that I did fart in front of my husband audibly. And we are married now, we've been together coming up on three years total. And so I went this long. The first time I heard him fart, but I didn't see it, was when he left the hotel room and he went to the hallway and he cracked the door and I heard it down the hallway over Thanksgiving in Boston. And the situation was that we were at the house, we were watching Love Story on JFK Junior and Carol and Bissette. And the volume was up, you know, it wasn't paused. And I went to the kitchen, I think to get a drink or whatever.

• 22:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I did know I had to fart, I was feeling a little gassy. I did know what I was doing, but I thought it was going to be silent and just air. And my body betrayed me and it came out so loud. Again, the TV was on, it was over the TV, he could hear it all the way from the kitchen to the couch. And I just crumpled onto the counter, I couldn't believe it. I was like laugh crying, I was like, I can't believe this is happening. He like perked up. I was like, he didn't hear that, it's all the way across the room, the TV's on, no. It's like he had a sixth sense for it. And he's dying laughing, he's like, oh my God, he starts like, oh my God, Azul, did you hear that? He's talking to Azul. And then within 30 seconds is voice noting Raina.

• 23:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I have never been more honored in my, I actually forgot how embarrassing that was because I was just so honored. He was like, I gotta loop Raina into this.

• 23:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Does anyone else have this?

• 23:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Trio of a marriage. Like, this is crazy.

• 23:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, I'm so honored.

• 23:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  He picked up his phone. I'm like, what's he doing?

• 23:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Not his sister, not a guy friend.

• 24:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's in the shonky-tonk chat. I gotta tell Rayna?

• 24:04Rayna Greenberg?

  He's like, we gotta get this on a Girls Gotta Eat episode. I gotta talk about this now.

• 24:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my God. So, I mean, it was bound to happen.

• 24:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm curious if you guys leave a comment how long you guys waited to fart in front of your partners. Like, is it forever? Are you all just walking around with tummy aches?

• 24:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  I would have waited forever.

• 24:20Rayna Greenberg?

  I would have waited. I mean, the amount of stomach aches I have when I'm in a relationship, because I don't, I never realize how much I fart until I'm in a relationship. And then I'm like, oh, my God, it is constant.

• 24:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Plenty of couples fart in front of each other all the time. And if that's what they got going on, we don't judge. That's just not the relationship that I'm in or I want to be in. I want to just kind of not have that, cross the boundary. And we know what we do in the bathroom. And we are open about like, oh, you know, like fart walks. Fart walks and just, I gotta go upstairs. You know, he has his bathroom. He would never, he doesn't even use our bathroom in the primary bedroom at all. That's mine. He has his own.

• 24:56Rayna Greenberg?

  When he pees, like in the middle of the night?

• 24:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  He'll pee in there. He's, he's never pooped in there.

• 25:00Rayna Greenberg?

  His butt's never touched the seat. That's amazing.

• 25:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, he has his own.

• 25:04Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, I don't use my guest bathroom. Like, if other people's butts have touched a seat, I only go upstairs to go to the bathroom.

• 25:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's like Beyonce. She doesn't like to sit on toilet seats that other people sit on, and I get it.

• 25:12Rayna Greenberg?

  She bring her own toilets?

• 25:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I heard she brings her own toilets. I don't think she does. I heard she brought her own something. This could be, I actually think this is probably a rumor of someone trying to say she's such a diva. But if I'm Beyonce, I'm not sitting my ass down on a toilet seat that someone just sat on.

• 25:26Rayna Greenberg?

  This is not diva behavior to me. This is, I've been working for 25 years. I made all the money in the world, and I'm gonna accommodate myself as much as I need to.

• 25:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's actually even crazy to picture Beyonce going to the bathroom. Like, I can't even, like, I just picture her on a, on a literal throne. Like, I can't picture her, like, taking a shit.

• 25:42Rayna Greenberg?

  It's crazy that this is like the great unifier. Like, Kim Kardashian takes a shit.

• 25:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I can picture that.

• 25:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Because she's such a big dumpster.

• 25:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just like, Beyonce's different. So, that happened. We crossed that boundary. And it's so funny, because I was joking. I was like, you look at me differently now, don't you? And like, the next day, so this was a Saturday, the next day, Sunday, I was like, we haven't even had sex since it happened. It was one day. You laughed so much.

• 26:08Rayna Greenberg?

  You were like, are you not attracted to me anymore? Be honest.

• 26:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's like, we had sex literally yesterday. I'm like, yeah, but not since, not since it happened.

• 26:17Rayna Greenberg?

  That is so funny. Well, you guys, let us know in the comments how long you waited. I'm very curious.

• 26:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, but it's like, I wasn't like, I'm gonna do this now. This snuck out.

• 26:25Rayna Greenberg?

  No, no, I mean, the way that I would be oscillating between just like humiliation and laughter.

• 26:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, that's what it was. I was like hunched over the counter, like silent cry laughing, tears streaming down my face.

• 26:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, I also just celebrate that. I walked into the house the next day and I farted so loud to celebrate just being alone. I voice noted you guys to tell you.

• 26:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  So lucky. Yeah, he leaves for work. I usually roll around in the bed for another like 30 minutes to an hour before I get up and fart. Yeah.

• 26:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, let's talk about our partners and then we will get into it with our guest today. We're so excited.

• 26:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, if one of your goals this year was to get ahold of your finances and just kind of have like a better picture and understanding of what you make and what you spend, I have the perfect tool for you. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. So the interface is really easy to use. There's tons of different tools that can help consolidate your checking, savings and loans, investments into one single dashboard. You receive real time alerts from large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, low balances. I mean, do you guys heard them say it is like a full picture of what you are spending? So you can set budgets and goals, get personal insights and regular reports. All of us have like subscriptions we don't even know about. I have tons of them and they're gonna help you find and cancel the unwanted subscriptions.

• 27:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't even tell you how many times I've opened up my bank account and just saw like $4, $5, $6 or stuff that I had no idea I was paying for, just like all kinds of stuff. So it's gonna help you like reveal spending patterns and add some context to it. And if you have anything coming up, maybe you want to like plan for a vacation, summer travel, maybe you want to move or upgrade your furniture in your apartment, whatever it is you want to save money for, this is a great way to do it. And I think people are always looking for a real actionable tool to track their spending. So Rocket Money is the way to do that. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com/gge. That's rocketmoney.com/gge. Rocketmoney.com/gge.

• 28:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, and if you are dealing with any sort of hair issue, whether it's thinning, excessive shedding, or your postpartum, really anything that you feel like your hair is not what it used to be, or what you want it to be, Nutriful is the answer. We were just on Jackie Schimmel's podcast, Bitch Bible, talking about this, her four and a half hairs, and she takes Nutriful, we take Nutriful, I've been taking it for years, I really rely on it, I take the women's formula, four capsules daily, and this really is the best out there. I mean, there are so many different products, quote unquote miracle products, that you're probably being sold and advertised, and this is actually the one that works when it comes to your hair. Nutriful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement, and it's

• 29:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists, so used by the people that really know what's up. So, it is not a one size fits all approach, there are multiple formulas for men and women, tailored to different life stages, like postpartum or menopause, and lifestyle factors such as plant-based diets, so you get support that's actually right for you. And, I mean, I can't imagine my life without it. I've been on this hair journey, I'm gonna like, talk more about it, because I just feel like I was having a meltdown at the beginning of the year, and I feel like I've figured out a lot of the factors, but Nutriful's always been there, and that's when I feel like my hair is like, growing and strong, and my nails are so long and strong, they're like insane, my nails are like, the hardest,

• 29:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  hardest nails. So, really adding it to your daily routine is easy, you can order online, no prescription needed, and with a Nutriful subscription, you can save up to 20% and get added perks to support your hair health journey. So, we can't recommend this enough. Again, any hair issues, this is where I am directing you, personally have used it for years, have it in my pillbox, marked by the day, so I never skip a day, take it with me when I travel, it's gonna come with me to Singapore, or it will have just, and so, we can't recommend enough. You can let your hair be one last thing to worry about, see visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in three to six months with Nutriful. For a limited time, Nutriful's offering our listeners $10 off Your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and

• 30:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  enter promo code GGE10. That's nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code GGE10.

• 30:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. And what is one thing you could put into place this month that would make the rest of 2026 easier for your business? So as spring is approaching, if you want to do spring drops for your business, level up your marketing, tighten operation, Shopify helps you go from idea to execution to growth without losing your speed. So Shopify is the best place to start and grow a business, just like ours. Ashley and I have used it exclusively for all of our Girls Got to Eat merch and everything we do with Vibes only since the beginning. It has truly helped us launch and grow the business. So Ashley and I know every single thing we're selling at all times. We can check our phones. The reporting is unbelievable. It tracks every product, tracks inventory. We can initiate sales right from our phone, discount codes, everything. We have tons of users that can

• 31:10Rayna Greenberg?

  log in and manage the business with us. There are tons of ways on there. If you're like, I don't, I don't even know how to build a website and do this. They have all kinds of AI tools to help you with descriptions, with building the website. If you need to write product descriptions, Shopify can help you. If your photos look a little janky, Shopify will help you make, make it look like a million bucks. It doesn't need to be perfect. And I think that truly this is what stops most people is thinking like, I don't know how to use these tools, but it couldn't be easier. There's tons of plugins. It makes payments really easy as well. We just love Shopify. So if you're hungry for a chance to start or grow your own business, it's time to take your ideas and head over to Shopify today. Go to Shopify.com slash GGE to get started today. And we promise you'll be so happy you did.

• 31:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, now let's get into it.

• 31:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, guys, we are really excited to welcome our guests today. They are the co-hosts of the Dating Detectives Podcast. They share gripping stories of scammers and con artists targeting vulnerable singles, as well as the horror stories of relationships of all kinds. Please welcome to the show private investigator Mackenzie Fultz and her co-host, writer, comedian, all around, just great girl. I mean, I just want to hype her too. Hannah Anderson, welcome to the show, guys. Thank you for having me. I'm an armchair sleuth. Aren't we all? Yeah, exactly. I think all women are detectives. 100%. I found a way to get paid for it.

• 32:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  You are living my dream. So let's hear a little bit about you each personally and also how you came together and started this podcast.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:33Speaker 03

  We love the idea.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  So fun.

• 32:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Yay.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  So we, I actually got started as a private investigator because I was in college getting my criminal justice degree. I wanted to be on the SWAT team. My college professor said, you can't have your nails done. And I said, fine, I'll do my own thing and be a private dick. And, cause I was embarrassed and I was in a class of other 20 year olds. And when you say the word dick, they laugh and it was fine.

• 32:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, you were doing a bit.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Kind of, I guess. Like, I was like, I'm gonna be funny. And he said, a private investigator, huh? You'll never make it in that industry because you're a girl and that's a man's industry. And I said, I'd watch. So then I went home, Googled it. I said, can you be a private investigator? How do I do that? And I went on the Google machine and told me all the answers. It said, do this, follow this step, get your background check, go to the FBI, get your fingerprint, all the things. So I did all the things. And before you know it, they sent me a license in the mail and I said, I'll be darn.

• 33:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  What?

• 33:20Speaker 03

  That's how it got started.

• 33:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, I'm doing this.

• 33:23Speaker 03

  I never had a dream of being a private investigator because I was like, no, who, how do you do, like, that's not real. Sure enough, it's real. And sure enough, I did it because he told me I couldn't.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  And wouldn't you tell her your secrets? Like if she came to your door and was like, oh my God, I thought this was the, I was trying to go to the house next door. Is your neighbor home? I'm so sorry. I'm just, you'd be like, come on in. Like, I can't imagine a PI not being like a bubbly girl.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  It's called like social engineering. And he, my college professor said, you'll never make it as a girl. And so I've always had this like, lack of belief in my job.

• 33:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Because I was like, well, I shouldn't be here anyways. He said, I shouldn't. But I get information so easily because.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  I can see that.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Imagine like a dude that's like ex-military, ex-FBI, he's got like a bald head and like flecks tattooed on it. He's got a leather jacket.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  I'm turned on by this guy.

• 34:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exact type. She's like, imagine this loser. I'm like, I am imagining it. But you're so right. Like, women want to open up to women and men want to open up to women too, because they need a therapist.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  They're like, oh, I want to flirt with you.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Men want to give me information because they want to flirt with me. Women give me information because now I'm a girl's girl.

• 34:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  They feel safe.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  They feel safe. And so I get better information. That's why they call me. If there's a man on a case, he'll call me and say, hey, I need a girl. I need a female. And I'll go do his case and get information. I can find people that don't want to be found because they tell me everything.

• 34:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're also just like wired better for this.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's innate.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:48Speaker 02

  I mean, we have to be.

• 34:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, true.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Survival.

• 34:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  True.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  Women do better research in the FBI already. And like, honestly.

• 34:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  But that's true. I mean, we are bred from like little girls to be safer in the world and to question things and to like, hopefully trust your instincts.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  You're right. And we grow up hopefully being like this. Also is that as a private investigator, the more questions you ask, the more questions you have, like the more, the more answers you get, you just have more, more questions for everybody. And so you always have more questions to ask. And if you can have enough moxie to ask those questions, you're gonna get the answers. People are just afraid to ask the questions because they're afraid of looking stupid.

• 35:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  Okay. But when you, when that's your job, when this is paying your bills, I'll ask the questions. Pay me my money.

• 35:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  There are so many stories, I feel like, especially ones that have been made into movies or television, that like, this case that no man could solve.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  The woman comes in and solves it.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 35:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Kate Winslet. And it's like the hero.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  I'm thinking of Mayor of Easttown. That feels like it, but maybe there's something else. With Kate Winslet, it was kind of like, a woman detective on the case.

• 35:51Speaker 03

  Wasn't it?

• 35:51Speaker 02

  I can't do the accent.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  And now there's like a lot of female-led roles because like, and obviously this was a fourscore and seven years ago that this professor told me, like, this was back in the day when we're getting out of that like sexist mentality, but still it happened. And now we see that, yes, huh? Like, you know what I mean?

• 36:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Okay. So Hannah, let's hear about your backstory.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Well, you're a P I who's seen some shit and I'm a single girl who's trying really hard not to. Like, I just wanna learn as much as I can from this show. But yeah, I was, I think I was just complaining in stand-up about my dating life on the internet. And then our producer Molly, who her, I was telling you before, her friend dated a guy who was sketchy. He was not on the internet because he claimed he coded himself off the internet, which I guess, you know, men can do that, apparently. And Molly was like, ask him why he's not on the internet. And so her friend did. And then he left the state and blocked and deleted all their messages and was like, sorry, I have to coast you now because they were on to him. So you never really got to the bottom of that, Molly's over there. Well, she thinks he's a drug dealer.

• 36:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  A drug dealer, okay.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  But that was the idea for like, there are more stories like this where it's not quite catfishing. We call it dog fishing.

• 37:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Where someone is who they say they are. Like, you look like yourself and you are yourself.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  You're using your own pictures, but you're not.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  But you have a secret family.

• 37:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, I like this. A little bit of an insult to dog, but we'll take it. I like the term. Azul, don't hit him.

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Cats had to take it for so long.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  You know how a lot of women will say, men are dogs?

• 37:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  And so it's like, that's kind of, and it was like.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  We're dog people, I swear.

• 37:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I believe you.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  And fish people, nothing against them either.

• 37:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Nothing against fish. But I know what you're saying. It's not like criminal, what they're doing. It's just bad.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  It just should be.

• 37:33Rayna Greenberg?

  A lot of times it is criminal. The secret family thing is so crazy to me. So like, one of the questions I wrote down for you guys is like, how easy or harder has it gotten in 2026 to like, find out information about people on the internet or hide stuff? And like, secret family seems pretty hard to, like, conceal today. Don't you think?

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Well, especially today with the internet, but that's why with the whole thing about, oh, they're not online. Some people aren't online because they know that if they are online, they're easily findable. But then other people are not online because they know how crazy online can be. So it's like, we, Hannah and I, I think, look at it as a red flag.

• 38:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I do.

• 38:09Speaker 03

  Why aren't you online in today's day and age?

• 38:10Speaker 02

  But we get pushed back and I do think it's generational. Or, I don't know, like, everybody I know is.

• 38:15Speaker 03

  Not everybody wants to be online.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Right, but in LA, everybody does. So I don't know anyone who's like, I don't want a public facing life, but I get that some people do. It's hard for me, though. I'm like, if I can't find a friend of a friend, I don't even want to go on a date with you.

• 38:30Rayna Greenberg?

  But I think that's fair. I guess you're right. It doesn't mean that you're necessarily like second family, but it's totally fair to say like, that makes me feel unsafe.

• 38:36Speaker 03

  And if you're someone who says, I choose not to be online, it also opens doors for them to do things a little secretly because they're not easily findable. And it's like, oh, he's just not, he lives a private life or whatever. And not only he, it's it she too, but we get a lot of females that come on. I think a lot of men just aren't comfortable sharing stories like that because they're supposed to be so masculine.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  I also think women don't get caught as much. Hundred percent.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Which actually in surveillance on cheating cases, that's not true.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Well, because you get on the case and catch them, but the men can't catch them.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, that's true. Because guys are so, guys are wired differently. They're like, oh, that didn't happen? All right, cool. Me, I'm a female and I have ADHD. Like, there's more to it.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  As far as like, how easy it's getting to hide things versus hard, like, obviously I'm terrified of AI and like, things like that. We just had an episode about, the guest was talking about her grandpa who just like disappeared in the 50s. And then through genetic, like 23andMe, they were able to kind of find out that he didn't get murdered or whatever. Like, he just moved to Florida and started another life. And she found a bunch of half grand, like cousins and things. So, we were just talking so much about how back then, it's like, you could just disappear. And you could just like change your identity. It was very easy for him.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  And no one had the benefit of the internet to find you.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Right. But now, I mean, if you look, you'll find something. If you're going on dates and not Googling before, it's just research. You're not crazy.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  So do you tell people if somebody isn't Google-able, I might not go?

• 40:09Speaker 02

  I would never trust anybody that I can't find on the Google machine.

• 40:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  I also want to clarify, when you guys say, online, like, do you just mean social media? Or you mean like, you can't find them? Because I don't, I can understand guys that don't want to do social media, like.

• 40:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, hundred percent.

• 40:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  But also, it's, it's interesting, because I feel like the guys that say they don't, usually there's, you can sometimes put something together. Like, you don't have to be super active. But when you guys mean, online, do you mean like, there's no LinkedIn? There's like, literally nothing.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  No internet footprint.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  Everyone is getting mail somewhere. Whether it's from a, a collections agency or a telemark, like whatever, advertisements, whatever. Someone is getting mail somewhere. Your name is going to be attached to some address, somewhere, somewhere in the world. And if I can't find that, your, your name is not real. You don't exist. Do you want to talk about like tips for searching, like, running phone numbers? Don't stop at page one.

• 40:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I feel like when you're trying to find someone.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  You don't have to do a full blown background check on someone, right? Because sometimes you're not going to find, it's expensive.

• 41:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  You have to know every county they've ever lived in, every state they've ever, it's wild. It can get super expensive. But the Google machine, I'm telling you, is a big, big tool for you to use. So if you type in someone's name and you put it in quotes on the Google machine, it'll tell it, only look for this combination in this order with a space in between of this person. So you type in the information that you know on the Google machine. Like you can type in Adam White in quotes, or whoever. And then you can also put another word that says doctor in quotes. And so it's looking for those specific two words together in a search. And so you can find that. But if you don't find anything on page one, go to page two. Go, it'll take you to page 67, 294, and you just keep going. You're gonna find something. And if you don't, that person does not exist. That's not real.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  And so if it's not finding those together, or it'll say, hey, we found Adam White, but we didn't find doctor. So now you know, okay, there's no one by this name that's a doctor.

• 42:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, doctor's really interesting because that person would have had to go to a lot of schooling. So if there are, and school records should be available, correct? Like if you graduated from a university, that would be public knowledge.

• 42:11Speaker 03

  And if it's something that's not public, something like that where other people were grad, like you're not the only one who graduated. Someone in your graduating class has posted something about graduating that's gonna lead to something that has your name in it. So if you say, hey, I graduated from XYZ university. Here's my graduating class and here's my whatever. It's gonna lead to you because you're part of it.

• 42:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Do we sound crazy?

• 42:32Speaker 03

  No, this is, this is great.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  No, fascinating.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  And so that's a lot of how I find information is just not from what they post, but from what someone else has posted that links to them. Or even if they don't know the person, they're part of that.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Tagged photos, guys.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  I mean, I, you'd be surprised how many people don't know that.

• 42:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Like tagged photos. Most of my girlfriends, like, I can't tell how tall he is. So I'm like, go to the tag.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  I was thinking, I have a, I have, okay, tagged photos compare next to friends. Speaking of school, though, my go-to is if they did a sport or something, you can find their

• 43:01Speaker 03

  The alumni volleyball team or whatever.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  And it has their weight and their height and it's accurate.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  And what position they play.

• 43:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I had a guy, we were talking about this on our show, I had this guy who told me that he got hurt playing hockey for West Point and I looked it up and I looked up West Point, he didn't play for West Point.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Did you ever meet him?

• 43:17Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I met him. I was currently dating him and he had told me a bunch of things about his life and a friend of his was like, this thing isn't true, which meant that four other things weren't true. And I just looked it up and it just wasn't the case. And he was so stupid to tell me a university name, like I couldn't just Google that.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  And that's called dog fishing.

• 43:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  What happened when you confronted him?

• 43:36Rayna Greenberg?

  He freaked out. Of course, he turned it around on me.

• 43:39Speaker 03

  You're crazy.

• 43:39Rayna Greenberg?

  You're crazy. And the reason I found this stuff out was a couple of his friends had told me and he also was like, fuck them and those girls are bitches, they're liar. I mean, the anger was extreme and swift and it like scared me a little bit.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:53Rayna Greenberg?

  And I mean, thankfully, nothing bad happened to me, but he, the deflection was so intense and so swift.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  Do you know what DARVO stands for?

• 44:00Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Deny, attack, reverse, victim and offender.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  We talk about that a lot on the Dating Detectives.

• 44:06Rayna Greenberg?

  And why would that happen?

• 44:07Speaker 03

  So this is their strategy.

• 44:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  Deny, attack, reverse.

• 44:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Victim and offender.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Okay. Yep. And so it's a big thing.

• 44:14Rayna Greenberg?

  So also, if you went to West Point, I do think at the time you had to serve in the military after and he told me that he had served in the military. Also, there was no records of this.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  There was nothing? If someone's in the military, you're going to find them. And that's just like you said, with something as simple as a phone number. We advertise also on the Dating Detectives with the like.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  We're like, this is how to find information. And also, if you want to get yours off, use Delete Me. It helps you get like.

• 44:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. So there's programs that actually find data brokers where they collect public information. So even if you don't know specifically what county someone lives in, let's say you give me your phone number, like, hey, you're a girl, I want to give you my phone number, whatever. I can plug that phone number into Google and the data brokers collect all this information. So I can take that phone number, put it into Google and it'll connect me to whatever other data brokers have connected. So that's connected to an address that you've registered with the phone company. That's connected to all these, a ticket that you got in 2017 from running a red light or running a stop sign or whatever. All these things are going to be collected by these data brokers and sometimes they'll charge you like a dollar or two to get information.

• 45:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  You plug that phone number in and it's going to give you a list of a zillion, but if you find, it'll show you a data broker that says, hey, I'll charge you a dollar if you find this. Then you connect it to a name, then it'll ask you, hey, you can pay another dollar to get more information.

• 45:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Wow.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  It's, it's cheap enough where it's like

• 45:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Cheap.

• 45:31Speaker 03

  Worth the, worth

• 45:32Rayna Greenberg?

  It is cheap.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  You don't have to pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars for a background check. You just don't.

• 45:36Rayna Greenberg?

  But I want to rewind to something that you guys said, and I like, so the got people to our audiences, like, okay, this is a tell. So when somebody starts to flip out on you immediately because you've figured out a lie, you're like, you are lying.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  Okay. So I've been a PI for 20 years now. Okay. So you kind of, there's a vibe that you start to get. So what I've learned in my experience is that the greater the lie, the greater the defense. And so if it's a bit like, if your first date, you find out someone's married, you're like, what the hell? Like, why would you even bring me here? Like, why would you even try like this? You have the right to get mad, whatever. And then, and they might be like, oh crap, you know? But if you're years into a relationship and then you find they're married, like they're going to be even angrier because now they're, they're losing the plot. So they're going to get mad and they're going to deflect.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  We've heard some crazy excuses. One guy was having an affair. I don't even, it's so bad. He was having an affair with his wife's mom.

• 46:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh my God.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  And she found out and she confronted him and he, his immediate, like his first thing was like, well, I, I just don't like how you load the dishwasher and

• 46:37Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 46:39Speaker 02

  That was his first

• 46:39Speaker 03

  Psycho. Who do you think taught her how to load that dishwasher?

• 46:45Rayna Greenberg?

  That's what we said.

• 46:45Speaker 03

  Isn't that crazy? It's wild, but not everybody responds the same. And so just like you, you watch a lot of true crime and you see, oh, well, they called 911, but he wasn't breathing heavy enough to really show concern. And it's like, how can you really tell? So if you think like someone's going to respond the way you would, that might not be true. And so we have to, we have to honor that, that not everybody's going to respond. Some people respond with laughter. Some people respond with like fear and deflection, but I feel like that's where we say, trust your fem tuition.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Deflection comes up a lot.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Deflection.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  It's manipulation. You're manipu-, you're making yourself the victim. It's Darvo. You're making yourself the victim so that you're not the perpetrator. And so that's, that's totally Darvo right there.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  If you walk out feeling guilty after bringing a valid concern to your partner, that's something to clock.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Cause it's like, wait.

• 47:34Speaker 03

  Did I do something wrong like that?

• 47:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Okay, Mackenzie, what are you doing day to day mostly? Like, what are people coming to you the most with? This is just me interviewing.

• 47:45Speaker 03

  You're like, how?

• 47:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  What's your career? I'm just trying to find my new career.

• 47:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Walk me through it.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  How do you make your coffee?

• 47:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Are you hiring?

• 47:55Speaker 03

  So actually, I do a lot of insurance fraud. So you know how people get into like a car accident? And they're like, oh, I've hurt my neck so badly. And then they're like, I can't play racquetball anymore.

• 48:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, on the test? Okay, so you go spy on them and make sure they're at the gym?

• 48:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Ashley's gonna quit this podcast. Just do, get your license before you start doing it, though. I, of course. Because you know how, have you seen those commercials? No, she won't. Do you have a sponsor here in California? Like, I know they're in Florida and it's like, been in a car accident? Call 1-800-Screw Everybody, or whatever it's called. And then you call, it's a, it's an attorney and they're like, you got an accident? Okay, you want to put on a neck brace, make sure you're doing all the right things, talk to the doctor. And they're coaching you to make sure that you're appearing injured. So you're being coached by these attorneys because now they're gonna sue, get a whole bunch of money. So those people are seeing dollar signs, they want money.

• 48:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  And so now you gotta, you gotta realize that this is affecting us as people who are required to have like, let's say, car insurance.

• 48:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, of course.

• 48:48Speaker 03

  Or like employers who have workers' comp insurance. And now they're defrauding these people, right? So they're saying, I can't move my neck. And then you catch them playing racquetball and you're just sitting in your car at the racquetball court, just videotaping the whole thing.

• 48:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do you roll up on people, like, playing sport?

• 49:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Fuck, yes.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  She followed someone through like a Busch Gardens.

• 49:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is my dream.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. You have to go to Busch Gardens for work. Well, this woman had claims that she-

• 49:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm quitting today.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  I know you are. I'm way too lazy to do this. You can do both. I have followed people into Disney, into Busch Gardens, and they say, I can't spend time with my child anymore. And they go and you're like getting them, I'm videotaping them on a roller coaster. Their necks going like this. Exactly. Y'all know how rough roller coasters are on the back. And then the day before, the day after, they'll show up with a neck brace and be like, I just can't move. And then they'll get in their car and like take it off, or-

• 49:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, getting in the car and taking it off, if I caught that, oh my God.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  Dude, I've had that so many times. And you never find the best information. Information from the actual target, you find the best information from who the target is connected to.

• 49:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Just like looking online and trying to find someone.

• 49:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, that's such a good point, though. If you're like, you're dating somebody, it's like, we'll see who's in their life and ask those people.

• 49:56Speaker 03

  Where's their mom? Where's their dad?

• 49:57Rayna Greenberg?

  Where's their mom?

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Where's their family? And if they say, I have zero family whatsoever, then who are they friends with? Who do they work with? Who are their associates? That's why when you pull a background report or just a regular comprehensive report of this person, it'll show known associates. Who do they live next to? Who's, who's associated with them in their HOA at their current bingo?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Who lives at their home that they failed to mention?

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Talked to that address.

• 50:20Speaker 03

  No, it's true. Who else is getting mail at their address?

• 50:22Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so like, okay, let me ask you guys, what do you think are some like red flags or even like pink flags that you think people miss in dating? So like, somebody has said this to you and you have not taken just the necessary steps to look into this.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  I've definitely got some that I was thinking about.

• 50:36Rayna Greenberg?

  No family and no friends?

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no family, no friends. Definitely red flag. And yeah, community in general, if they're trying to isolate you from your community.

• 50:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Huge sign of abuse. Just like, that's my only advice for protecting yourself. The only true advice that I feel like is foolproof is like, if you have people around you that you can go to and help you, that's going to be your saving grace when you get into tough stuff.

• 50:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Because you're not like, the smartest people get betrayed and cheated on. Like, it's not about you being an idiot.

• 51:06Speaker 03

  But when people have the potential for love, it's exciting. And you, when you see someone, you're like, oh, I really like this guy and he's so hot. And I just, you get into this mindset of like, what the potential is, and you're kind of like blinded by this love fog. And then they're love bombing and they're telling you all the right things and they're, it's unmet needs, right? So you're single for a while or whatever. And it's like, oh, he touches me so nice. And so we let ourselves, I think, be blind to some things that may not be true. Cause we see all the good things and we're like, oh, maybe I can let that go.

• 51:34Rayna Greenberg?

  And also you're like, I mean, is this a red flag? Is this a pink flag? I have to let people kind of be who they are. Like, there's probably red flags about me that doesn't mean I'm a bad person, you know?

• 51:43Speaker 03

  For someone like me, and this is probably because I've been a PI for so long and I just don't trust anybody. But for me, it's like, I just don't trust you. Like, if you say, oh, I go to church every Sunday. I'm like, no, you don't. Come on, stop. And, and I want to see it. Like, I want to go through the, I want to see, have you been involved in the church? Can anybody vouch for you? Who's your community? Has anybody tagged you in a photo at this church?

• 52:03Speaker 02

  He show up in the choir.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  Right? And so that's, that's me.

• 52:06Rayna Greenberg?

  No community feels like a huge one to me. Like, yeah, there's nobody to hold you accountable or vouch for this information for me.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  And can I say, also, it's not, we're not talking about like, people who are just like, I have no friends. Like, a lot of times, it's someone that's like, oh, I just moved to the city. I don't know anyone in this city.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  Well, where did you come from?

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Like, they have a good story for it.

• 52:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do you guys watch Love is Blind?

• 52:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  So this story with Alex, who now it's a little bit dated, but he's just, the dots are not connecting. I mean, he's a pathological liar, or worse.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Is this the one that's like, I don't live in one place?

• 52:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  The soccer guy, yes. I want to think like, all women are intelligent enough to be like, these dots are not connecting. Like, the timelines aren't matching up. And then you pull the thread a little bit, and then it all, none of it matches up.

• 52:44Rayna Greenberg?

  She kept saying, these timelines don't match up. And the guy that I told you guys about, the West Point guy, he had told me he lived in all these places. And I kept saying, these timelines sound really weird to me. They don't align with where you say you've lived.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  That's another good reference.

• 52:56Rayna Greenberg?

  So that's another one, right? Like, timelines just seem like they don't match up.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  So that's called pattern connection also. It's very big with people with ADHD, but also mostly with women, where you can, like, you'll hear something, and it won't mean anything to you. You'll be like, oh, that's nothing.

• 53:10Rayna Greenberg?

  In the moment.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  In the moment. But, and I'm someone who, I'll forget everything, until I hear something contradictory later. And then I'll be like, wait a minute, that ain't right. That don't mean that one of these things is not. And then, so then you're like, wait a minute, that doesn't go. And then now you've connected two dots. Two dots, two things is a pattern, right? So then you're waiting for the third one. What's the other one that doesn't align? And the third one is either going to connect with one or the other. And then you're going to start to see a pattern of like, which one of these makes more, which one is leading more towards one or the other. And women do that. And that's why women are more prone to be overthinking, because we connect patterns better. Where dudes are like, hey, man, like, it's fine.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  Women do that, and then they talk themselves out of it.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  I just can't even.

• 53:50Speaker 02

  We're crazy.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  We're overthinking in a bad way.

• 53:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I mean, we got, we asked our audience, we will get into them, but like, so many, for stories that seemed a little crazy, ghosting stories, catfishing stories, and so many of them said, like, this seemed weird, but I ignored it. This, like, a lot of them were like, we never stayed at his place, we stayed at hotels.

• 54:06Speaker 03

  Oh, that's a good one, too. Okay, so I see what you're saying now. So, yes, you're not allowed in their community, or they, they always want to go with your friends, but never want to invite you with theirs. Or...

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Something always comes up, even if they make plans for it.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  Like there's always a flaky last minute.

• 54:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or my ex is crazy.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Anytime they say my ex is crazy, it's, no, she's not. Like, let me talk to her.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  You can have a crazy ex and talk about it and introduce it in a way that's not a red flag. Does that make sense?

• 54:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, she is crazy is, I mean, that's always, we always, that's a red flag to me. Once we said that, it's a more loaded thing to me. Give me, give me background, explain to me, and help me understand what happened here.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  Communicate it that's like respectful without being like.

• 54:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I mean, we all have one kind of crazy ex.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  No, it's true. And that's why when I get a case, like a cheating case where they say, she's just crazy. I want to know more because I feel like most people in my experience, especially with men, when they talk about her being crazy, they're ashamed of it. That's not something they want to share because they're like, she was crazy. And that embarrasses men because they're, they're wired a little bit differently. They have a greater sense of pride. And so when he says, she's crazy, she's crazy. It's like, if she really was crazy, most men, and obviously not for everybody, but most men would be more ashamed to talk about that and kind of keep that to themselves. Whereas if they say, she's crazy, she's crazy, she's crazy. Now they're trying to give you a narrative that they want you to believe.

• 55:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's such a good point.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  That really is. They want to make themselves be the better guy, be not the bad guy.

• 55:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we, we had one person on this podcast that said every ex of his was a narcissist. And we're like, no, they weren't. Let's dive into that. And it was like, not a great guy. But like, I love what you're saying of, it's like deeper than that. Like, we kind of brush that off, like, oh, my ex was crazy. But it's like, why are you sharing this? Like, a more stable, honest guy wouldn't say that.

• 55:51Speaker 03

  Most men are ashamed if their ex is crazy because then they feel like they got duped. Men are usually wired to feel more superior because that's just, it's just nature. That's what they're, you know, wired to feel. And so when they say my ex is crazy and they're willing to admit that, it's like.

• 56:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's the delivery. Like, it could be, it could be like, listen, I did date this crazy woman and she stole from me. She did this, she did that. But the delivery is not this like, can you believe? Like, I think you're so right.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  There's like a sexist undertone to it too.

• 56:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  And there's no ownership. There's like, I didn't do anything here. She's just nuts.

• 56:25Speaker 03

  Because they want to look better for you. But if you talk to anybody who says, you know, oh, why aren't you with your ex anymore? I feel like maybe she had, like, they'll, they'll tone it down a little bit so that they don't look as stupid for, for not seeing the sign. And then most people will be more ashamed of that. And then they'll say, but I also kind of did. The people that are willing to admit what they did wrong, that's a sign of intelligence.

• 56:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 56:49Speaker 03

  Emotional intelligence or otherwise, and it shows that they're, you know, they're willing to take accountability and that's a good thing. But people that are lying, they'll be like, no, uh, it wasn't my fault.

• 56:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I feel like that about cheating. I feel like I don't subscribe to once a cheater, always a cheater.

• 57:00Speaker 03

  Neither do I either.

• 57:01Rayna Greenberg?

  When somebody says that to you, it's, you know, how do they speak about it? How do they explain the situation, their role in it, their participation?

• 57:07Speaker 02

  There's different types of cheating.

• 57:08Rayna Greenberg?

  How they would change, like I, cheating's not great. Did, but did you have, was it one time you were drunk, you were in college? Or was this a long time affair with our best friend? Different things.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:16Rayna Greenberg?

  I completely agree.

• 57:17Speaker 03

  And even if it was something as bad as that, it's like, people that are willing to admit that and say, hey, I, I did this really bad thing. And like, I'm not, I'm not happy about it, but I just want to share with you that this is my experience. And then it's up to you to decide whether you want to pursue that or not. But at the end of the day, I feel like that honesty, it just kind of, it creates a safer place in my opinion to say, okay, this person makes mistakes, which we all do, and then we can look back and reflect on our own self that we've made mistakes and decide whether or not you, that's the thing you want to pursue.

• 57:45Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so true. Somebody's willing to tell you is actually probably open to having the conversation. Oh, you don't agree?

• 57:50Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 57:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. What do you, what's your thought?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  I don't disagree. This is not groundbreaking, but I do think it's very important to build ourselves up and our confidence and our intuition, and really understand ourselves because I've also seen where someone shares that they cheated in the past or did something bad in the past.

• 58:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Because they want you to be there.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Because they want to see what you'll tolerate.

• 58:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Hmm.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  So if they're like, oh, you know that I cheated and you're like, okay, I understand.

• 58:12Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a great call.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  I think you're very honest. I love that you're being honest with me. And then they do it again.

• 58:18Speaker 03

  But then if they have a history, but then.

• 58:20Speaker 02

  I'm not saying that's gonna happen.

• 58:20Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I love your take and this is.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love it too.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Just something to think about.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  And if you think about that, if they'll do that one time, then they're gonna try it again. And the more they.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  They might, they might.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  The more they start to tell you more things, then it's like, okay. And then when they, when the behavior starts aligning with something, then it's, then you can start to piece those together.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  I think it's just where your, your intuition has to come into play. Like you.

• 58:42Speaker 03

  You'll film.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  At the end of the day.

• 58:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we call them tuition. Yeah, I could talk about this forever. It's really, it's interesting. It's like when a guy, for example, shares this with you, what's going on in the back of his head? Yeah, what's the narrative? Is like, is she gonna, is she okay with it? You knew I cheated. You knew I had it in me. The guys that are like, you don't want to get involved with me. That's the biggest red flag. I'm a bad guy. It's like, and then they do it and they tell you, well, I told you. If a guy says that fucking, run, I don't deserve you, or I'm like a bad guy, they're telling you to run. They're telling you, and you can only blame yourself.

• 59:14Speaker 03

  The thing where they're seeing if you'll tolerate, and if you will, they're like, well, I told you the truth.

• 59:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 59:18Speaker 03

  You know?

• 59:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then you feel guilty.

• 59:19Speaker 03

  But a lot of the times, on the dating detectives anyways, we talk a lot with people that have been in these long-term relationships and ultimately get scammed after a period of time.

• 59:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  And then they look back on those first dates and then they reflect on the, because hindsight's always 2020.

• 59:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 59:35Speaker 03

  Then they look at, oh my gosh, he said this to me and I thought it was weird, but I didn't.

• 59:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  But so you're saying you, you hear it once, you don't clock it. You hear it a second time, then you start to clock it.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  And then it's like, once you get to know this person and then you start to see the kind of things that are, that are manipulative and that, whatever he told you in the beginning is always in the back of your head, but you don't realize it until you PC, but then by this time, you already love this person.

• 59:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. I don't know. I am on high alert all the time. Yeah. I just don't, anything that seems sus, like I just.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Same.

• 1:00:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cause I just, but I get it. I get when people really want love and this is how the catfish that all started. You know, people want to ignore all these things because they want to believe. Yeah. And there's like a sadness to that. And there's also a line, there's also a line where it's like you, you know, a few things, not letting it bother you, but that when it goes on and on and on, but yeah, I mean. Yeah. Do you have people say to you, so like, this reminds me of Dirty John, which is like my favorite podcast and show.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  We had Tara Newell on our podcast.

• 1:00:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my God. So she's the daughter that killed him, right? Yes. In self-defense. But everybody in Connie Brain, is that a?

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  Connie Britton, yeah.

• 1:00:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  We've seen her a lot on air. We see her all the time. We see her all the time. She's like the. She's always on our Delta flight.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  Oh, you actually see her.

• 1:00:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've seen her five times. No, she was a salty girl. She was at the Obama thing. We've seen her so many times.

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  She's our number one celeb we see and her and Adam Sandler. I like her.

• 1:00:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Stop. I haven't seen him yet. I see him all the time.

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  Adam Sandler did this to me.

• 1:00:58Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so cool. So that is a true story. If you guys listen to the story, it's a podcast is great, but everybody in this woman's life, including her children, her mother hated this man after a while. And do you see people just ignoring the fact that everybody around them is like screaming at them like this is a bad situation?

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  We talk about that a lot on the Dating Detectives. We talk about how every and people look back on it and they say, oh my gosh, they tried to tell me. But then we talk about like when the more you tell someone it's a bad guy run, it's a bad guy run, it's a bad guy run, the more they are like, no. And so it's like

• 1:01:30Rayna Greenberg?

  People push back on it.

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  They push back because it in it's like in nature, like you want to do the opposite.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  It also gives that partner ammunition to say they don't want what's best for you. They don't want you to be happy.

• 1:01:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Right. It's us against the world kind of thing. Yeah.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Like, so, I mean, and that's not to say

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  They're trying to destroy us. They just

• 1:01:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  They don't want what's best for you. It's a hard thing because we've all been there where we hate who someone's

• 1:01:53Rayna Greenberg?

  We've all been there with a friend where we hate the partner and like the friendship ends.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I tried my like tactic is like one conversation about it. Like you can say like, are you good? I'm just noticing these things.

• 1:02:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  It might not go well. They might be like, what are you talking about? Oh my God, I love him. He's perfect. Stop. And then I think you do have to let them come to you, but you have to keep showing them that you're there. I literally just say the advice is like, send them memes all the time. Like just keep them in your thoughts and prayers.

• 1:02:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Like just like Let them know that they're not isolated because people like that seek to isolate you.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Or send them like a podcast that you listen to like that or something like passive aggressive. Just like make it very clear that you are the person.

• 1:02:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Send them this episode.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Send them this episode.

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  We had, yeah, there was one episode that we had on the Dating Detectives that was it was a woman that was being manipulated and her friends were trying to tell her and she, there was one friend who never said anything. They were just like, hey, I'm here for you. It seems like you could be going through a lot. I'm not really sure. You don't have to talk about it, but I'm here. And then ultimately, after a couple of years, that was the friend that she went to whenever she knew she had to get out.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Also, okay, this was good, too. I forgot.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  You need that friend.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  She also did a thing that I have learned through this show. Like, when you're finding out that somebody's cheated on you or betrayed you, you kind of feel completely out of control because your life is like a lie.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  And you feel ashamed that that's happened.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And if your friend is like, you need to leave him, like, that's also not in your control. This friend specifically, he was switching her birth control with drugs. It was a whole thing.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  And this friend happened to be a pharmacist, but rather than being like, you're getting drugged, blah, blah, blah. She was like, let's do a test on the birth control. Like, she like, kind of gently guided her through, like, are you comfortable doing that? Like, let her have the control through that process, if that makes sense? And I just feel like that's so much nicer for somebody who's lost all control.

• 1:03:48Speaker 03

  Kind of like how law enforcement comes to you and they say, hey, we just want to question you. We don't think anything is wrong. We just want to make sure. We just got to eliminate everybody. You know how we got to do it. And then they find, like, they find the ultimate clue, a clue, a clue. And so then they get all excited, but really it was just to eliminate you. And so it's kind of like that, like, hey, let's just be sensible and just, you're not accusing, just making sure it wasn't that.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  Totally. That's the right tone. But it's hard because you want to slap them across the face sometimes.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  What do you feel is the best way to support someone in a, in an abusive relationship? You know it's abusive.

• 1:04:18Speaker 02

  Well, abusive is different to me than my friend is just dating somebody I don't like, who's not good enough for them that they complain about all the time.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. If somebody that we know is unsafe to us, that's like a different situation. But like, I have certainly dealt with quite a few girlfriends that have just dated guys that treated them like shit. And I constantly had to hear about it.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Lying and all, yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, lying and niggling them. And then there's only so many times that I can like, comfort you and ask you why you're with him and be like, I can't believe it. Until I'm like, I can believe it. I've listened to this story 15 times. Like, you need to sack up or stop telling me about this.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  Well, we had a friend like that and

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  She kinda stopped telling us about him and it was better that way.

• 1:04:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  You know, like, or just less, because it's like, you are sucking all my time and energy to talk about this terrible guy when you know better.

• 1:05:04Rayna Greenberg?

  And you're gonna stay.

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  But then it's weird, because it's like, do you push your friend away? Because they know they can't talk to you about their relationship. I think it's tricky. You have to find your boundary.

• 1:05:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Hey, memes are a nice way to keep a friend without having to hang out with them a lot and remind them that you love them.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm genuine about this.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  It's the person that you see.

• 1:05:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Some silly things.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the person that you hear a lot from that's not giving you a lot of shit for the relationship you're in. I feel like most of the time when you're in a situation, in a relationship with someone that's just not great, and everybody around you is kind of telling, you're already ashamed of it, you already know.

• 1:05:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Sure.

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  But also, how do you leave? And I was just talking to Molly about this. I was saying, as someone who, like, didn't have a lot of self-love, especially almost 200 pounds ago, like, I didn't have a lot of self-love. And I would settle for anything. I would stay in a relationship just because I was like, well, I'm never gonna find anyone else. And so when you don't love yourself the way that you should, because you don't know your worth, then it's like, well, I'm not gonna leave this guy. I'm still ashamed of it, but I'm not gonna leave.

• 1:05:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  So you still want your friends there that, and so it's really hard.

• 1:05:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I know what you're saying. I mean, what I've, because I've dealt with this so much with so many of my girlfriends, I've just had, I've gotten better at it. And I've just said, like, I love you, and I hate watching you be treated like this. I hate hearing about it. That doesn't mean that you can't tell me, but like,

• 1:06:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:10Rayna Greenberg?

  My advice is not gonna change at this point.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:12Rayna Greenberg?

  So you have heard everything I'm gonna say about this.

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:06:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I truly cannot believe that this is happening. I love you, I feel for you, but like, I think you need to talk to a therapist or something. My, I've said all that I'm gonna say.

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  It's up to you to either be there and support them and let them be a grown up and continue it. And then when people are ready, they'll know. When people are ready, when they've had enough, they'll know.

• 1:06:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  They don't have to get there themselves.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  They have to get there themselves. And they, it has to be their idea.

• 1:06:34Rayna Greenberg?

  A hundred percent. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about some of the things on the internet, like these, are we dating the same guy groups? I mean, what are your, we want to hear your take on them. And like, just in general, like, has the social media and all the tools we have made things, I don't know, is it, are people deceiving people more or less? Like, are people now way too picky?

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  And have we overcorrected? Or are we looking for too many signs? Like, we just couldn't talk about the state of the world with this stuff.

• 1:07:02Rayna Greenberg?

  It seems like there's so many ways to figure this stuff out today.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Which is great, you know? I mean, there's just so many ways.

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  There's also more ways to, to cat slash dog fish people.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  I love the, are we dating the same guy groups?

• 1:07:15Rayna Greenberg?

  So let's talk about them.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  I mean, obviously, everything, like, nothing is perfect. There are people who can go in and Drag someone, but it's like, in the name of the greater good, like they've done so much good. We've definitely had tons of people talk about finding out about someone. Like I'm in the LA one. It is like pretty saturated. Like I think it would be hard to find, like, there's new ones all the time. I think it's like your friend sees it, or you like type in a name, kind of thing. Or just like, I don't know, God's on your side and you happen to look on the right day. I don't know. But people have definitely found, like, sketchy stuff on there. And I'm glad that there's a little resource for it.

• 1:07:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. We always say you need to be discerning. And it's just, some people just have bad dates and some people don't vibe. And then they feel rejected and they want to get in there and, you know, ruin someone's life. But yeah, I think it's important for just like, this guy has a family, or this guy's dating all of us right now.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  Well, exactly. It's such a good way to connect with all of the other women.

• 1:08:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  100% bonded for life.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  My favorite episodes are when like two girls come on and they're like, yeah, we were both dating the same man.

• 1:08:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love it.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  And now we're best friends.

• 1:08:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Best friends.

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  Yes. Cause they always have good taste, weirdly.

• 1:08:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  We have the same taste.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Honestly, it's like, enemy of my enemy is my friend, kind of thing.

• 1:08:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  And do you guys think it's easier or harder in like 2026 to be a dishonest, deceitful person? I mean, I guess it sounds like it's harder because there's more ways to find people. But is it like more ways to?

• 1:08:42Speaker 02

  More ways to lie.

• 1:08:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Credit card fraud. Yeah, it depends. I think like having a full affair for years of your life is harder because, I don't know, we're just like more online. But the tools are like, I'm thinking about AI, where we've had some people who use AI to like find information about like a court case or something that they're verifying. And it's like, Google didn't find it versus the person who uses it to create a fake life.

• 1:09:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel like along the lines of this question, it is twofold. And I've done an investigation on both sides.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  So one is like, okay, first of all, never trust a screenshot. Those can be edited, altered, chat GPT.

• 1:09:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Go off, queen.

• 1:09:23Speaker 03

  I can get scammed that time with this. Don't, Donna, if he says, no, I wasn't, here's a screenshot.

• 1:09:26Rayna Greenberg?

  And there's too many ways.

• 1:09:27Speaker 03

  Stop it.

• 1:09:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Years ago, when people would say like, it's Photoshop. No, it wasn't. Nobody knew how to use Photoshop.

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Canva, a three-year-old could use Canva.

• 1:09:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  And also you can change the date on, like, you know how pictures have dates? You can change those.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  You can, literally, and then you can delete messages and make it.

• 1:09:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Speaker 03

  Change the whole narrative of the camera. So that's one thing, right? And so it's like, well, anybody can lie to you with a picture. They can say, oh, look, I was here. I can go to chat GPT right now and say, put me in front of the Eiffel Tower. And I'll be like, I was a bear.

• 1:09:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? So there's that, but there's also people that want to appear to be a victim. And so they will say, look what this person did to me. Look at this picture or look at, and so they are using the AI to make themselves look like the victim.

• 1:10:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, God.

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  As opposed to making themselves seem, you know, like they're, they're the bad guy or whatever. They can use it to make someone look bad. So that's why the, are you, are we dating the same guy? And the internet is great, but also people could use it. They could abuse it in a way that's trying to portray someone poorly because they are mad at them or they're trying to get, you know, revenge.

• 1:10:30Rayna Greenberg?

  We're the single ones here, right?

• 1:10:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, makes it fun, right?

• 1:10:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Can't trust anything.

• 1:10:37Speaker 03

  I mean, I think I'm a good sleuth. I always look people up.

• 1:10:39Rayna Greenberg?

  I like to think so.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  I really, it's pretty important to me to like, have somebody in common with somebody that I go out with.

• 1:10:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:46Speaker 03

  Like, I really, it's really important to me that I know some, like, and I'm not saying, dating apps are great. It's an avenue to meeting more people, but yeah, I like to have one connection that knows this person.

• 1:10:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll reach out, even if it's like when I barely.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do. I met this guy on this field, which is like a sex app.

• 1:11:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I know field.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  I saw that our friend Taylor had a mutual friend with him and I reached out to her and she gave me some info about him.

• 1:11:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we want to get into some actual real life scenarios, but I do think like overall, I just think this main thing is these people circle, like the people they surround themselves with. I think not everybody has to have a ton of friends. Some people are more loners and some people.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  It's too small of a world.

• 1:11:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:21Speaker 03

  Like, you're, you know what I mean?

• 1:11:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  It seems like that's the thing to pay the most attention to.

• 1:11:25Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:11:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then if all of this dude's friends are terrible, like he is terrible, probably.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  You are the company you keep.

• 1:11:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  And if they're texting their friends all the time, but you haven't met them in person.

• 1:11:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  That does not count as them having a community. Like, we've had a guy that was, he was texting his best friend all the time. He was his best friend.

• 1:11:45Speaker 03

  He was texting himself.

• 1:11:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, no.

• 1:11:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you guys obsessed with Sweet Bobby? Do you guys not know about Sweet Bobby?

• 1:11:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  I remember the name.

• 1:11:52Rayna Greenberg?

  What was that? Guys, it was a catfish podcast about this Indian community in the UK and he had.

• 1:12:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys.

• 1:12:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Her, I don't want to tell you.

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:12:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Years old, who had, the catfish had created a huge network of people around them.

• 1:12:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my God, that one was crazy.

• 1:12:08Rayna Greenberg?

  15 people, Facebook profiles and phone numbers and everything to text this girl to keep this catfish going on. It was all the same person.

• 1:12:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  It was a woman.

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  I think we've had an episode like that.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  We've definitely had people.

• 1:12:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys gotta watch that one. It's an easy, quick watch.

• 1:12:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, it's a watch now. You can watch it. I think Netflix made like an hour long documentary.

• 1:12:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  So let's talk about some real life unsolved mysteries. And again, this, some of this is just like for fun and see if our audience relates to it. Cause you got, I mean, we can't solve these on the spot, but we have one that happened to a friend of ours and this like lives rent free in my head. It's from a man.

• 1:12:39Rayna Greenberg?

  It's from a man, actually, and something that happened to him. So a friend of mine, he met this girl on, on an app in New York and she was in town for a few days, but they'd been talking for a few days. They had made tentative plans to meet up that evening and they were messaging each other and he had said, I think I have this dinner. It'll be around 10. That might be a little late for you to meet. And she was like, let me know when you're done with the dinner. So he texts her, I'm done with the dinner. Are you still down to, to meet? And she's like, yeah, why don't we meet at my hotel? It's near his apartment. She's like, I'm staying upstairs. There's a great bar in the lobby. And he's like, okay, great. I can be there in 20 minutes. And she was like, great. And she said, let me know if you grab a table at the, if you grab seats at the bar or a table in the bar area, there's a couple of places to sit. Just let me know when you get here. He texts her, I'm here. This will be important later. He sees actually other friends of ours in the lobby by the elevators when he walks in.

• 1:13:27Rayna Greenberg?

  He goes into the bar. He texts her, I'm downstairs. She's like, okay, I'm finishing getting ready. He was like, let me order you a drink. What can I get for you? She says a gin martini. And he orders her a drink and she says, I'm on my way. I'm about to get into the elevator. Never comes down.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:13:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Never comes downstairs.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:13:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Never responds to him.

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:13:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just goes.

• 1:13:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Never says anything. So he goes out to see like what happened because I'm like, obviously.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  She's fallen down.

• 1:13:52Rayna Greenberg?

  So I will say he, I've seen his dating apps. He looks, the photos look exactly like.

• 1:13:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cause you hear this and you're like, she took one look and ran.

• 1:13:58Rayna Greenberg?

  And ran.

• 1:13:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  But that's not, and that's nothing against him. In general, you would hear this story and think that, but he looks just like his photos.

• 1:14:03Rayna Greenberg?

  He's also really tall. He's a good looking guy.

• 1:14:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Full head of hair.

• 1:14:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Looks better in person.

• 1:14:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, better. That's a guy you look at a bar and you're like, I'm gonna hook up with him for sure.

• 1:14:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:11Rayna Greenberg?

  So he like goes out to the lobby where the elevators are and says to our girlfriends, did you see a girl come downstairs? And they said, no one has come out of the elevators since we got here. So no one came downstairs. And so he tries to message her on the app and she has unmatched him.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Oh my God. I mean.

• 1:14:32Rayna Greenberg?

  What's the point? And we do not know what happened.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  If she unmatched him, she's not dead. Like there was like a conscious unmatching.

• 1:14:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  She didn't die on the way down.

• 1:14:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:40Speaker 02

  She would not die in the elevator shaft.

• 1:14:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we would have heard about this woman dying in the elevator in Williamsburg.

• 1:14:44Rayna Greenberg?

  So I don't, I mean, he was like, maybe she was in a relationship.

• 1:14:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:48Rayna Greenberg?

  And got nervous. And I was like, as she got into the elevator to go downstairs in the building.

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  I actually don't think that's absurd. Like I could see someone being like, I'm gonna do this. It's totally fine. And then in the last minute being like, fully chicken out, not knowing how to communicate. I'll just unmatched, ghost, run away. Like.

• 1:15:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. Like had a panic attack essentially.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, just like somebody that fully panics and is like, I just can't go through with it.

• 1:15:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Grow up though. No.

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  Oh no.

• 1:15:09Rayna Greenberg?

  This is.

• 1:15:09Speaker 02

  I don't like it.

• 1:15:10Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm gonna have the affair.

• 1:15:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is totally someone.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  You committed.

• 1:15:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Just follow through. This is totally someone who was not who they said they were from the beginning. They were playing in their head, this scenario, and they were living in this scenario until the very last minute when they could no longer. That was someone who was totally not.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  I guess good for her that she.

• 1:15:29Rayna Greenberg?

  It was a man. Guaranteed it was another dude.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:15:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm telling you.

• 1:15:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think it was a guy. I.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  You do?

• 1:15:34Rayna Greenberg?

  That's my gut. My gut is saying that is a like, that's a 17 year old boy playing stupid on the internet. To me, that's not a woman who told a man, here's where I'm staying at this hotel. This is a man who was.

• 1:15:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Know the bar area.

• 1:15:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:47Speaker 02

  Wait, did he ever look her up more?

• 1:15:49Rayna Greenberg?

  So Field is interesting. So this is not Knockney Field because I love Field and I've had really great experiences on it, but.

• 1:15:55Speaker 02

  I have as well.

• 1:15:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Good. I love it. Okay. Okay.

• 1:15:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want to be single so I can get on Field.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  You don't have to be.

• 1:16:00Rayna Greenberg?

  So it's, it's an app to find people that have like similar sexual kinks, but people use fake names on it a lot. So like I have a fake name on it and it's just a first fake name, but unlike Hinge and some other apps, you're not connected to social media. Some people will list their socials.

• 1:16:14Speaker 02

  Reverse image?

• 1:16:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Or like I went out with a guy who like I reverse image searched one of his photos. He was a Realtor. I found his like real estate photos. I found that he was like a real person.

• 1:16:20Speaker 03

  That's another thing. That's a big thing is reverse image search that a lot of people don't know about still.

• 1:16:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. And I found like his profile for work. He gave me his name right away. I felt safe going out with him. But people use fake names on these apps. So that app is kind of primed to catfish people. And you just have to be safe, you know, meet them in a public place.

• 1:16:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And it's like we, it's understandable why they make it a little more discreet because it's this like sexual, all that stuff. Like it's, and we, again, we support the app, but that makes total sense.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  The most mature horny people.

• 1:16:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, but it makes so much sense that he couldn't really find more about her. He didn't meet her on LinkedIn. So I think you're told, it wasn't, who was it? It wasn't that woman.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  Respectfully, does he have money? Is he, no, I'm just kidding. Is he public?

• 1:17:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Like, could they have been trying to like rob him? Like it could have been like a setup.

• 1:17:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then they chickened out.

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  Maybe they realized it wasn't that kind of money. You're like, I'm just going to bed. I'm gonna fuck.

• 1:17:10Speaker 03

  No, this was someone who was having fun playing in a scenario that they knew was.

• 1:17:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Someone was like fucking around. Yes.

• 1:17:14Speaker 02

  Are they gonna think that maybe they'd come down and be like, surprise?

• 1:17:18Rayna Greenberg?

  So we do have another email that I wanted to get your take on, and it sort of is about this and why people do stuff like this.

• 1:17:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Not fool he goes, but this is a little long, but I, it is worth it.

• 1:17:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do you want to read it? Which one is it?

• 1:17:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. It's the first one. And I just, I find it so fascinating. I looked up like why people do this stuff.

• 1:17:34Speaker 03

  I love when people email in.

• 1:17:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, "Match with this guy on Bumble. He was so hot, yada, yada, tall, a little older, whatever. We started talking. He was seemingly so into me very quickly. We had a really great messaging chemistry. It felt very exciting. He wanted to go on a date. I immediately went to stalk his Instagram to make sure he was real. And not only did I find him, but I also saw one of my friends followed him. I reached out to her to see if she knew him and she confirmed he was real because she went on a date with him a couple of years prior. She said she thought he was a weirdo and was flaky, but I took it with a slight grain of salt because this friend had a lot going on at the time. So I agreed to the date. We were going to get coffee and we had a date and a time. The date comes around and I hadn't heard from him yet, but we talked so much about it that I felt secure the date was happening. I get fully ready. About to head out and text him saying I was leaving in 15. He texts me back profusely apologizing, saying his car broke down hours ago and then he's been waiting for a tow truck. And then he's still waiting and won't be able to make our date.

• 1:18:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Obviously, I'm pissed, not because he had to cancel because of his car, but because he only said something when I said I was about to leave.

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Anyway, because he was hot, he was able to convince me and all, he was able to convince me to continue to talk to him and agree to reschedule. Mind you, he begged me. This happened for two more dates. I would get fully ready and then he would cancel right before and it would always be something believable enough that you feel a little crazy. Obviously, after the second time, this was my fault for agreeing, but then I got kind of curious how long he'd keep up with it. This would be me, this would be my kink. The third date of this happening, I got bored and annoyed at myself for wasting my time. So I told him I didn't believe his bullshit and stopped talking to me. Months go by, he pops back up on Bumble, I'm a little drunk, I swipe right and when I pick up my phone, I have multiple texts from him. He then goes on to say how he's sad to hear I don't want to talk because seeing me pop up made him hopeful. He asked if I could hop on a call so he could explain more about what was going on with his life when we talked. I tell him no, but he can send me a voice memo.

• 1:19:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  He sends me several voice memos, all lasting multiple minutes long. He goes on to tell me that his mom, his dad and his brother have all died in the years passed from cancer. He said that when we were first talking, he had found a lump on his body and got scared he might also have cancer. So he wasn't mentally all there. He also said that not only he was dealing with a broken down car situation, but that his friend also tried to kill himself during this time. So I'm getting this so long, I'm getting this unbelievable amount of trauma dumping. And all I can think about is this man, either the weirdest liar alive, because what has he gained from this? Or he's the unluckiest guy in the whole world. Either way, I was not sticking around for it. I told him, I unfortunately don't believe him, but if I'm wrong, I'm deeply sorry for his misfortune in life.

• 1:19:43Speaker 03

  I'm very sorry.

• 1:19:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then I hope he finds peace. He handled that message fine and never spoke to me again. Sometime goes by, I'm still single and I'm looking through the, are we dating the same guy? San Diego Facebook group, he pops up there, there are hundreds of comments. I lock the fuck in. Countless stories about him doing the same thing to dozens of women around San Diego, making plans with them and then canceling literally minutes before. Always having elaborate apologies with tragic details. He met almost none of these women. Out of the women he did meet, they said he was weird as fuck and wouldn't physically touch them. They said he'd go from in love with you via text to a huge awkward weirdo in person. What a journey.

• 1:20:18Speaker 03

  The fact that he has the power that someone is disappointed that he didn't show up. This is someone who's getting off on them.

• 1:20:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was just gonna say, he's getting off on this.

• 1:20:25Speaker 03

  He's getting off on the people that are going, oh, you're not showing up. Oh, man, like, and he likes the drama, he's getting off on the drama.

• 1:20:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's a game.

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  It's a game for him and he likes it.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  To me, like.

• 1:20:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. So there's a couple of things about this because I really did some research about why would somebody do this. So he's addicted to the fantasy of dating, not the actual dating. Yes. He likes the matching, the chemistry, the intimacy. He overshares. That's important. Yes. Like building some kind of like false intimacy with you.

• 1:20:48Speaker 03

  That also is a big sign of deception, early trauma dumping.

• 1:20:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Love bombing and kind of.

• 1:20:53Speaker 03

  To like make you feel like, oh, wow.

• 1:20:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:56Speaker 03

  This is a sweet little baby.

• 1:20:57Rayna Greenberg?

  It's manufacturing a false closeness with somebody, right? He cancels minutes before on purpose, not hours before or days before the time he maximizes emotional impact. It kind of keeps him in control of the situation. He likely panics when it's about to become real because it's fear of evaluation and intimacy. That's why he rarely shows up. And when he does, these girls say he never touches them. He doesn't engage with them. So this is like, I guess, a pattern. So like some women do meet up with him, but it's weird. He can't be confident person and.

• 1:21:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is this ChatGPT?

• 1:21:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Let's ask the P I.

• 1:21:28Rayna Greenberg?

  No, this is.

• 1:21:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, this is so much better.

• 1:21:30Rayna Greenberg?

  That's our guest. We're here.

• 1:21:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is so, I'm learning so much more.

• 1:21:34Speaker 03

  No, it makes sense. I mean, I see all of that where there is that just element of control that they get and it feels harmless to some extent where it's like you can rationalize in your brain that you're not actually cheating on someone, hurting someone.

• 1:21:47Rayna Greenberg?

  So costing someone money.

• 1:21:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  This feels like dangerous, like this guy will be fully in prison or on the news for something worse. Like, don't you feel like this is like teasing something deeper?

• 1:22:01Speaker 03

  Well, it's certainly not a good sign.

• 1:22:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  It would not be surprising if this guy does something terrible. Like this is a weird fucking way to be it.

• 1:22:07Speaker 03

  This is someone who is seeking something that they've never gotten. They don't get off on like actually being intimate with someone. They get off on the idea and the numb, if he's doing this to multiple people, then that means that this is someone who he gets off on that every single time, every single person that he can get to trust him. And that they get disappointed when he doesn't show up. It's like, it's a, it's a power for him. Like he feels like, hmm, I, they miss me or whatever.

• 1:22:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think he's gonna do something worse.

• 1:22:34Speaker 03

  I think this is.

• 1:22:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think this is like just the start of like a dark journey.

• 1:22:39Speaker 03

  That's what the insult thing came to me where it's like, why is he like wanting to? Well, it's not about

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Women like it's

• 1:22:45Speaker 03

  And then also my family, my whole family's dead is sick.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  Oh, that comes up all the time. Everyone has cancer and it's heartened me. That's the one thing where I'm like, of course,

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  I dealt with a guy that did that, yeah.

• 1:22:54Speaker 02

  If someone told me they had cancer, I would not question it. Unfortunately, after the dating

• 1:22:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Also, 15 minutes before the date is very crazy. I remember this guy would make plans with me all the time. Every day for like weeks, this would happen and he'd be like, can I see you? I want to see you. And then it would just be the next morning. I fell asleep last night. Sorry. I mean, it was constant and he did this to another friend of mine that I know also were like, he was like, I will be down at my family dinner tonight at 6:00 PM and I'll come meet you. And then he was like, I will be done in 30 minutes. Never messaged her next day. Sorry, I fell asleep. I mean, just constant.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  Another reason that people do that is because they're always looking for someone better, which is why like the dating apps are so crazy now is because everyone's got someone else in their pocket, literally.

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  So these people are like always looking for the next best thing. So they might be like, oh, I really like you, whatever. But then they get a response from someone else that they're like, oh, she's really hot. She hasn't responded. Cancel. I'm going with this girl.

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  In the back pocket.

• 1:23:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they can always keep you in the back. And so that's why when people cancel, I feel like it's because they think there's something better, but they want to keep something on. They want to keep something on the books, but then they find something better. And that's what makes dating now so much worse is because

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  So fun.

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  It's so much, it's so easy just to have someone else in your back pocket ready to go.

• 1:24:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Plans like that makes you an asshole. They're like, I'm gonna walk out the door in 15 minutes. We had hard plans. That's really creepy.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  I know. Horrible. Don't go out with them again.

• 1:24:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, this is, this is mental instability.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  One other potential, just to add a little more positivity, we just had an episode where the woman, it was two women. It was awful. They worked together. She was the boss. She was 17 years older. Their power dynamic is horrible. And then also she was like not out, so that made it easy to be like, we can't tell anyone. She was gonna introduce her to her kids and kept like making the plans like, okay, they're ready. They're so excited to meet you, but obviously I didn't want to introduce you because it's like a sensitive thing to introduce my kids to you. And just kept kind of like canceling at the last minute. Her kid would get sick. Her kid had a Breakdown.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  The rabbit died.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  But she was still fully married. Like, that was what was going on. That's why they kept canceling.

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  Oh, I thought that was a feel good.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  The husband came out.

• 1:24:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  I thought you said this was a feel good one.

• 1:24:59Speaker 02

  No, I was kidding. I'm sorry.

• 1:25:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh.

• 1:25:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  We do have to wrap up with you guys. I thought we were gonna wrap up.

• 1:25:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, thank you guys so much for all of this.

• 1:25:10Speaker 03

  Thank you for having us.

• 1:25:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, no, it's fine.

• 1:25:13Speaker 03

  I love sharing. I love sharing about this with, with other people too, because it's, it's interesting to get your take also.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, we love you guys so much.

• 1:25:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  We love you guys. This was so much fun.

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  Our audience loves, The Dating Detectives and Girls Got to Eat is a great collab because our, The Dating Detectives.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  The Dating Detectives Got to Eat?

• 1:25:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, one day, me and you, we're gonna be just on a case together.

• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  I would like to.

• 1:25:33Speaker 02

  When I like dating, I would like.

• 1:25:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  We'll investigate?

• 1:25:36Speaker 02

  Legally to, for you to investigate.

• 1:25:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, when I get my certification.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:25:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, well, tell everybody where they can find you guys both and listen to the podcast and everything. Just plug all your stuff.

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  Our podcast is called The Dating Detectives. It's Dating Detectives Podcast on all socials.

• 1:25:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, perfect.

• 1:25:51Speaker 03

  And I am freedom underscore Barbie on social media.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  I'm Hannah Ander Graham, because I'm Hannah Anderson. I don't know. I thought it was funny.

• 1:26:00Speaker 03

  I think it's cute.

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  It is funny.

• 1:26:01Speaker 03

  Find it. I told her, I said, now it's Hannah Ander Pod.

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  And, yeah, exactly, exactly. But also, if you have a story, we're open to emails if anyone wants to tell their story. Investigate at thedatingdetectivepodcast.com. Nailed it.

• 1:26:16Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 1:26:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Took me two years.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  We are, we keep it anonymous. We have a legal team, so you are safe to spill the tea if you want anyone.

• 1:26:24Speaker 03

  Okay, and I would like to encourage anybody that's in your audience, if you want to become a private investigator, reach out to your state's Association of Licensed Investigators to find a reputable person. And you can also go to the Google machine and type in how to be a private investigator in, and then put the name of your state. Every state governs their own PIs. Google it. Women can do it. I'm telling you, I've been doing this 20 years.

• 1:26:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Of course, and you can have your nails done.

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  And I have my nails done. I always have.

• 1:26:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, guys, well, you know where to find us. girlsgottaeat.com. Tickets to our show on May 7th. They're at girlsgottaeat.com. GirlsGotEat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina is Rayna Greenberg and Rayna Greenberg. ...for her tour tickets, subscribe on YouTube, share this episode with a friend, and we will see you Thursday.

• 1:27:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Have a good weekend.

• 1:27:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bye.