How To Maintain Optimal Physical, Emotional & Spiritual Health During The Holidays

Prepare thyself, because ready or not, the holiday season is indeed upon us. For most, this is that special time of year when — whether by conscious choice or simply due to external circumstance — we find ourselves overeating, overspending and simply overindulging in anything and everything, all in the name of celebratory merriment. When we're not charging it on the card or spread paper thin desperately trying to fulfill all the heightened expectations this time of year presents, we find ourselves weathering an unnatural battery of social engagements and the emotionally hyper-charged land mines presented by extended family get togethers. The result? A massive and unnatural outpouring of energy that leaves us not just out of balance, but utterly depleted — spit out the other side physically and emotionally exhausted to the core, all too often overweight and riddled with unnecessary debt. Then what? We awake on New Year's Day committed to do and be better next time — the annual renewal ritual that inevitably falls short. A slow burn leading up to next November to repeat the cycle. The standard American approach to the holidays is unhealthy, out of balance, verging on lunacy. Let's have a different experience. Let's relax. Let's make sure we're exercising self-care. Let's focus on the giving part. And let's not over extend ourselves financially, emotionally or physically so we can emerge in January not just intact but truly enriched — optimistic, feeling great and energized for all the challenges and adventures presented with the birth of a new year. As we did last November ( RRP 60 ), this week Julie and I once again sit down to hash out all things holiday season with a focus on providing helpful, experience-based strategies to assist in managing the financial pitfalls, dietary challenges, precarious social environments and heightened emotional states presented by this unique time of year. In my experience, these are issues common to us all. And yet issues we go to great lengths to avoid dealing with internally, let alone discussing outwardly — typically out of fear, shame or simply a profound need to keep up appearances — all of which ultimately leaves us feeling alone and isolated in what for many can become a state of true emotional crisis. In truth, the exact opposite of what the holidays should be all about. So rather than deny or repress, let's talk about it. Let's get it all out in the open. And let's work on a strategy for a better, more positive and uplifting experience. On today's agenda: * How to avoid spending money you don't have; * How to maintain a healthy diet throughout the season; * How to experience gift giving with children in a different way; * How to navigate and avoid emotional land mines with extended family; * How to say “No” to certain social obligations; and * How to nurture and preserve your physical, emotional & spiritual well being under pressure. Many of the topics raised and discussed in this conversation are beautifully and concretely laid out in this very helpful companion piece by Julie entitled “How To Maintain Emotional & Financial Sanity During the Holidays”- well worth checking out. It's about self-care people. You simply cannot expect to be able to show up, be your best self and be there for others if you are not first taking care of yourself. This is not selfish — it's truth. And a crucial huge component of this success equation begins and ends with meditat... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

  Eating well rarely falls apart because of one big failure. It's the daily question that wears you down, like, what am I actually going to make tonight? What's in the fridge? And it's exactly why we built the Plant Power Meal Planner. It's a personalized, plant-based meal planning program that matches you with recipes based on your taste, your allergies, your cooking skills, and how much time you actually have. You build, through this program, a balanced, nutrient-dense plan for your entire household in a few minutes. Then it generates a grocery list for you with one click that plugs right into our delivery partners. All the recipes in the program are built by dietitians with culinary training. Plus, you get your own food coach to help you problem-solve along the way.

• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout. Welcome to the Rich Roll Podcast, episode... what episode is this? 114. 114 with Julie Pyatt.

• 1:24Rich Roll?

  All right, everybody. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the podcast that bears my name, the Rich Roll Podcast. I am your host. Hey, Julie. Hey, Rich. I'm joined by my sometimes co-host. Sometimes wife. And wife, Julie Pyatt, today. It's been a while since you've been on the show. Yeah, it has. It's been a while. Thanks for inviting me back on. Do you know what we do here at the RRP? What do you do at the RRP? Tell me. Well, first of all, we thank our listeners. That's good. We're very grateful for our listeners. Yes, there's so much great audio content out there. Podcasts have never been bigger. They've never been more popular. And there's a lot of choices out there. So I appreciate you guys tuning into this show.

• 2:08Rich Roll?

  You could be listening to Serial. You could be listening to any number of amazing shows out there. So we appreciate it and thank you. And thank you for spreading the word to your friends. Thank you for Instagramming. How and when you enjoy the show. I love that. I love when you guys tag me, tag Julie, and say, hey, there's like a shot of you, of the dashboard of your car showing the show, or you're out on a run, or something like that. So, thank you guys for doing that. Continue to share your enjoyment of the show on social media. And thank you for subscribing to my newsletter at richroll.com, where you can find tons of great products and services,

• 2:49Rich Roll?

  and also get a free seven recipe download if you're a new subscriber. And thank you for supporting the show by clicking through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. You know, if you're not doing that, what's up, right?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, get with it.

• 3:04Rich Roll?

  The show's free. It's an easy way to support the show. And it doesn't cost you guys anything extra. You just have to think about it. I think you can actually just bookmark that if you click on the Amazon banner ad, you get that URL, and then just bookmark it to your browser. That way, you don't have to go to my website every time. It's just kind of right there. You just have to make a mental note. Anyway, thank you, guys. Do you know what the theme of the show is, Julie?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  I think the theme is holidays. How to manage the holidays.

• 3:31Rich Roll?

  No, but the theme of the show.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Oh, your show overall. The theme of your show is, I believe, finding your most authentic self.

• 3:38Rich Roll?

  Well, that's, that's close.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Is that one? That's what I think it is about. What is your show about?

• 3:43Rich Roll?

  Each, well, each week, I sit down with the best in the brightest minds in health, wellness, diet, nutrition, fitness, mindfulness, creativity, artistry, entrepreneurship, world-class athletes, doctors, nutritionists, psychologists, yogis, entrepreneurs, artists, even the occasional inspirational everyman, like last week's extraordinary guest, David Clark.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 4:04Rich Roll?

  He, he blew the roof off my previous one-day download record. That guy was super popular. So, obviously, you guys enjoyed him. Thank you for listening. He was amazing. And it was really gratifying to kind of take that guy and shine a light on him. You know what I mean? Like, like he's sort of an everyman hero and, you know, not, not a guy who's like famous by any stretch of the imagination, but he had written a book and we helped push his book to number one in Amazon for, in the running category, which was really great.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 4:37Rich Roll?

  It feels really good to be able to help him out. So thank you guys for, for picking up his book and for tuning in, tuning into the show for that. In any event, all of these guests are all forward-thinking, paradigm-busting minds here to share their experience, knowledge and insights to help you guys discover, uncover, unlock and unleash your best, most authentic self.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  There it is.

• 5:00Rich Roll?

  So that's what it's all about, right? So before we get into talking about what we're going to talk about today, which is navigating the holidays, how to stay healthy, fit, emotionally intact throughout this.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Not kill your family.

• 5:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, not kill yourself, not kill your family.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  Cut down on crime.

• 5:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, not, not sort of abuse your body with a bunch of crappy food. We're going to talk about all that kind of stuff, but I wanted to make a couple of quick announcements. Do you know what this week is? I bet you don't, but it's important.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  What is this week? Oh, I do know what this week is, but you, you say it.

• 5:34Rich Roll?

  What is this? What do you think this week is?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  No, go ahead.

• 5:37Rich Roll?

  I bet it's different than what you think.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  No, go ahead.

• 5:40Rich Roll?

  This week.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Our anniversary?

• 5:41Rich Roll?

  Is, uh, yeah, it's, that's what it is.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  That's what it is.

• 5:44Rich Roll?

  It's the two-year anniversary of the podcast.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 5:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, did you know that?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  I didn't really know that. Did we start it that soon? Cause we would have just gotten to Kauai.

• 5:54Rich Roll?

  The second or third week of November. I'd have to go back and look at the exact date that we posted.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  We probably did.

• 6:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we did. No, I know, I know that we did, cause I know that it was like a calendar notification.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Cause I think we left for Kauai on like, I don't know, the second or the fourth or something like that of November.

• 6:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was like November 18th or something like that, two years ago, exactly.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  That's so crazy. It feels like. Like it's so fast and also like so much has happened.

• 6:22Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  Right? Both at the same time.

• 6:24Rich Roll?

  It doesn't seem like that long ago, but also it seems like a lifetime.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, like nothing's happened and everything has happened.

• 6:30Rich Roll?

  Our reality has changed quite a bit since then.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  That's true.

• 6:33Rich Roll?

  In no small part due to the podcast itself.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Thank God in heaven.

• 6:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so not that it wasn't amazing, living in Kauai.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 6:41Rich Roll?

  It was a great experience, but I was reflecting back on, you know, the inception of the show. And, you know, sitting down to do the first podcast episode with you. So it's apropos that you're here to, you know, share the anniversary moment.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  It's pretty amazing.

• 6:57Rich Roll?

  It's great that it lined up with the impending holiday season. But, you know, just being enamored with the idea of having a podcast and being able to kind of continue the conversation that Finding Ultra started, but having no experience and no, you know, kind of understanding of, you know, how to actually do it.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:17Rich Roll?

  And to just start talking with no agenda, that first episode, do you remember?

• 7:22Speaker 01

  I do remember. I'm remembering now. I'm feeling us in that warehouse. And I just remember getting just completely assaulted by the largest mosquitoes ever. They were biting my ankles and my legs and...

• 7:36Rich Roll?

  Well, what's interesting is, you know, I went back and listened to a little bit of it and I kind of prefaced it by saying that, you know, look, this is new. We don't know what we're doing, you know, go easy on us.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:49Rich Roll?

  But here's my idea of what I want this to be. And, you know, I was very clear, like, this is not going to be a triathlon podcast. It's not going to be a podcast about how to, you know, make you, you know, get your PR in triathlon. Like I wanted to do something broader. And I pretty much said, like, I want to be able to share... Inspiring people and inspiring stories from all walks of life and kind of hit wellness across the board, mind, body, spirit. And that's pretty much what the show has been. So it's pretty cool to see that that seed of an idea is actually what has flourished and what's blossomed out of it.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  It is. It's amazing. You're a powerful creator.

• 8:31Rich Roll?

  Congratulations.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Congratulations to you, honey.

• 8:33Rich Roll?

  And the other big milestone that by the time we post this, it's Friday afternoon right now, we're going to post this Sunday night, sometime in the next couple of days, we will eclipse four million downloads.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 8:45Rich Roll?

  Which is insane.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  That's so amazing.

• 8:48Rich Roll?

  And the show's really growing, which is great. I think it took us a year to get to one million downloads.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:54Rich Roll?

  And now it's just accelerating. So that's pretty awesome.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  It seems to be exponentially.

• 8:59Rich Roll?

  It seems like just the other day, we had three million downloads. So it's really picking up speed. And thank you guys for listening. And it's all, you know, it's about you guys.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And thank you so much, everybody that sees us, that stops us and comes up, you know, it's this kind of funny thing, but they always go, okay, I feel like we're really good friends because I listen to the podcast. And it's just really meaningful for us, and it means a lot to us. And it seems like it would be weird, but it's just not really weird. It feels like we do know each other really, really well. It's just Rich and I would like to know more about you, since you guys know everything about us.

• 9:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  But it's really cool.

• 9:38Rich Roll?

  It's the extended family. And it is great. Like, I've encountered people who were like, yeah, I wanted to come and say hi, but I felt weird about it. No, like, always come up and say hi.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Always say hi.

• 9:48Rich Roll?

  And, you know, we love it. And I love meeting people that listen to the show. You know, it feels really cool to us. But I understand that there's that weird kind of intimacy that occurs if you're someone who listens to not just our podcast, any podcast. Like, I feel like if I... Met Marc Maron, it's the same thing because I listened to his show, so I feel like I know that guy.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  And he probably doesn't want you to say hi.

• 10:13Rich Roll?

  Maybe not.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  No, I'm kidding.

• 10:15Rich Roll?

  But he's very kind of transparent about who he is, so he's very kind of emotionally vulnerable in it. So you, I feel like maybe I probably do know more about that guy than maybe some people in his life. But anyway, I understand that, that kind of dynamic. And the other kind of big thing that happened this week is we turned in the manuscript to our cookbook.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  We did.

• 10:37Rich Roll?

  So this is a project we've been working on for a year and a half.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Sorry, we've been talking about it for so many months.

• 10:43Rich Roll?

  Well, I haven't been talking about it that much. I mean, you know, it's, it's an incredible book. It's beautiful. It's, it's, it is a cookbook. It's about 335 pages, got about 120 recipes in it and extraordinary photography. But it's also kind of a lifestyle primer, you know, it's very family oriented. It's for, you know, parents with kids and it's about like, how do, how do you, how do you get everybody in the family on board? And how do you create kind of a healthy, sustainable lifestyle template for yourself, your family and your kids?

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:14Rich Roll?

  We're pretty excited. It's going to be coming out at the end of April, I think.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  April 28th?

• 11:18Rich Roll?

  28th, 29th is the publication date. So obviously we're going to be sharing a lot more about that in coming months. I think it'll be up for preorder sometime, maybe in February. I don't know. We're working on some cool like preorder incentives and packages and bundles for bulk purchases and things like that. So there's going to be a lot more news about that. But, but we're just excited because we, we worked the last two weeks, it's just been around the clock, like revising, editing. Julie's been testing and retesting all of the recipes and, and getting kind of our house in order with it, so.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was intense and good.

• 11:56Rich Roll?

  It was, it's good, so.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Definitely stretched us.

• 11:59Rich Roll?

  There'll be another round or two of edits, but it's pretty much, it's pretty much there.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  No, it's done. I mean, it's done.

• 12:04Rich Roll?

  We finalized the cover and at the appropriate time, we'll reveal the cover and all that kind of stuff. But it's awesome.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's going to be a cook that, I mean, a cook, a book, that, the cooks, a book that you, you know, really goes from the living room to the kitchen and, you know, back and forth. Because it's really sort of like, it's a complete whole lifestyle guide.

• 12:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, the idea is that it functions in the kitchen, but it's also a book that you could put out on your coffee table. Like, you know, the photography is really beautiful and anyway.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  And read a lot of great. Information and inspiration.

• 12:34Rich Roll?

  There you go, exactly.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:45Rich Roll?

  All right, so the holidays.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  The holidays.

• 12:49Rich Roll?

  The holidays are coming. What does this, what does it, what does it bring up for you?

• 12:52Speaker 01

  What does it bring up for me? Well, it's, it's kind of weird this year. Maybe it's because we turned our manuscript in, but suddenly I, I felt a lot of space. I felt like a lot of, like some years, it seems like Thanksgiving happens and then Christmas happens so quickly that it's just all on top of each other and I never have time to even like take a breath. And this year it feels like the, like the time is more stretched for some reason. I don't know. It's just one of my etheric feelings. But the holidays brings up for me, I guess my, my, my vision is to maintain balance

• 13:31Speaker 01

  and it means, you know, not dive into any of the extreme experiences that could be accessed during this time.

• 13:43Rich Roll?

  So let's talk about that. I mean, I think it's difficult for everybody to maintain their kind of general equilibrium throughout this period of time. I mean, you know, look, the days are shorter, it gets dark earlier, it's kind of, you know, it's cold out, it's gray out, you know, even in California. Well, not right now, but you know.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  It's dark. It's getting dark.

• 14:02Rich Roll?

  I mean, you know, half the country's blanketed in snow already. And it's the hibernation period of year where it gets harder to convince yourself that you should move your body and it's easier to talk yourself into kind of indulging in, you know, foods that maybe you wouldn't ordinarily eat. And, and suddenly you're face to face with all kinds of extended family members and social obligations and it's easy to get out of balance and to over commit, to overeat, to overindulge and to over emote. You know, I think people get into situations where they, they become, I mean, more importantly than the physical or sort of eating aspects of the holidays, it's really the emotional strain.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Well, it's the emotional that then triggers the eating.

• 14:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, of course, because the eating becomes a way to emotionally, you know, to sort of regulate your emotions around. Discomfort that extended family members might bring up, or whatever it is. I mean, everybody has some version of that, I suppose. And, you know, of course, there's people that just love the holidays and it's, everything is awesome about it. But I think the typical, you know, experience is, is one of, you know, joy, but also one that, you know, where, where kind of the joylessness of it also butts up against, kind of, you know, just navigating tricky, you know, sticky wickets.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:24Rich Roll?

  Sticky emotional wickets.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I think that there's a, I think that we're set up in a lot of different areas for a lot of, you know, a lot of really stress. And, you know, it starts with the fact that it is kind of like the end of the year. It is a closing, and I think I've talked about this before, like a, it's like the end of the year. It's the, it's the death of life, right? And then after the solstice, then it starts, you know, things start to come back, you know, the time starts getting longer again. But here we are in the, in the, you know, last month of the cycle. And then we have, you know, the consumerism issue that's being, you know, everywhere we go, there's reminders that, you know, we, we should be spending money, you know, and

• 16:05Speaker 01

  buying different types of things, decorations, Christmas trees, you know, menorahs, whatever, you know, gifts, presents, you know, sort of all this kind of excess. And then there's also on top of that, you know, the emotional family baggage that, you know, really so many of us have. Everybody has something, you know, that's, that's a hot button in their family. So all of that is set up to sort of, you know, set the, the primer for a large imbalance, you know, of some kind. And so there's really all these areas we really have to be mindful. So, you know, we have to be mindful with the consumerism to make sure that we, you know, remain in balance and that you don't end up doing something that then makes you

• 16:50Speaker 01

  in debt, you know, or, you know, you, you know, you rack up a huge credit card situation that then you have to deal with the entire year to get, you know, cleared up.

• 17:00Rich Roll?

  Well, let's just camp out there right now because I think that that...

• 17:04Rich Roll?

  You know, it raises a lot of people's stress levels and anxiety levels.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Totally does.

• 17:09Rich Roll?

  If you're a guy out there and you're the head of a household and you have kids, you know, there's an expectation level that you're gonna deliver, you know, whether it's Christmas morning or whatever your version of the holiday is. And, you know, economic times are tough. A lot of people are struggling to, excuse me, just make ends meet. And, and they don't want to disappoint. So, so, you know, how are you gonna do it? Anxiety goes up and you end up overspending because you wanna, you know, make sure that everybody's happy. So if you're someone who's in that situation, I mean, we've had to kind of deal with that and, and, you know, address,

• 17:49Rich Roll?

  you know, the holidays in leaner years by kind of, you know, bringing the kids into the fold and like, you know, what are some tools or strategies for, for, you know, navigating the pitfalls of the consumerism aspect of?

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Well, I think, I mean, I think really at this point in the game and, and, you know, again, it's like, you know, I have tremendous faith in children and, and, you know, they, they're very conscious and very aware and, you know, extremely intelligent and most times much smarter than we are. But I just feel like it's a, it's a conversation. You know, it's a conversation about, you know, what is excessive? And, you know, not, I mean, I love gifts. I think everybody should get gifts and that's great. But let's really think about, you know, what are, what are we, you know, what are we asking for? What do we want? And, you know, just all this excess plastic in this kind of, you know, focus on, you know, well, I want this toy or this, or this, you know, this thing that literally they're gonna play with it.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  And in like a month, they're not gonna look at it again. This type of thing. So I think it's-

• 18:54Rich Roll?

  I feel like, just to interject momentarily, I feel like suddenly, everything is-

• 19:01Rich Roll?

  Is, I don't know if it's just because I'm old or I have a weird memory, but it seems like, now, everything is so much cheaper than it was when we were kids. But it's easier, like cheaper in terms of like disposability. And like, if you got like a gift when you were a kid, like one good gift or something like that, and you would kind of use it and play with it forever. But now, it's so easy to go out and get stuff at Target or whatever it is. And kids' attention spans are so short. Like, they play with it for five minutes and then it's done and they're on to the next thing. Like, that was, that's a different, that's kind of a generational thing. That I, the relationship to these kinds of consumer goods in young people is different than it was in our, when we were kids.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, and I think there's an opportunity though, because as we're looking at, you know, what's happening planetarily and where do those pieces of plastic go? Like, when you're, when you're done with it and you're just, you want to throw it away, what really happens to that item? You know, what is the, what is the lifespan of it and where does it go? And so, you know, and I've started to talk to my kids is, you know, they're like, oh, I want that plastic thing. I'm like, really? Do you really want it? Do you really want to be the steward of it for years? Like, how, like, if you, if they start to sort of get the idea that they're not just going to throw it away in a month or six months and it doesn't really matter, you know, I would like to continue to open up that awareness of really, do you really want this thing?

• 20:26Speaker 01

  And what if you had to take care of it for the rest of your life? What if that object had to be with you for the rest of your life? Then do you want it? Like, then do you really want it? I think that that's a very powerful.

• 20:41Rich Roll?

  Have you had that conversation with Mathis?

• 20:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have, and she's pushing back, man. She's fighting like a wild stallion. No, but she's, you know, it's also, I mean, You know, it's just consciousness, you know, and at some point, it's just like, how much does anybody really need? You know, we have all these dire, you know, circumstances happening on the planet. It's like, we are so blessed, you know, that we're safe, that, you know, we have a healthy family. And so, again, it's like, I'm all for stewarding and sponsoring creativity and passions of my children and of people that I love. So if it's something they really, really like, I'd rather spend more money on a real thing

• 21:22Speaker 01

  that is going to, you know, help them express themselves in a meaningful way than them have, you know, 15 little crappy pieces of plastic under the tree that they're just gonna be thrown away.

• 21:36Rich Roll?

  So then it just looks like there's a lot of stuff under the tree.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, I mean, I've been sort of vying to go that way for a while, and, you know, some years, we were really lean anyway, so there was no money at all. And those were the years that we actually, you know, we made teams and we created creative projects with like, you know, we had like a limit of like 20 bucks, you could only spend 20 bucks, but we had this amazing experience. And I really love that idea, and I think that that is extremely valuable, to actually plan an event, or plan something you're gonna do together, even if it's a conversation, or a play, or you're gonna sing a song together, and actually plan in advance, so that that is

• 22:21Speaker 01

  the focus of what you're doing together. And I guarantee you, that will be more meaningful than, you know, 50 gifts and the ripping of the paper, and then, you know, no one even knows who gave them what, and it's just like, ugh, like that just feels so bad.

• 22:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think we did, well, we did a similar podcast to this about a year ago, and we kind of talked about all this kind of stuff. And I didn't go back and listen to that, so I can't remember exactly what we talked about, but I do-

• 22:48Speaker 01

  Hopefully it's not the same.

• 22:50Rich Roll?

  But, so forgive me if I'm repeating, but, I think the leanest year that we had, where we were really scraping and just, you know, basically had no money, we did, we broke up into teams, and we gave ourselves a budget, and I remember specifically, it was me and Trapper, we were a team.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  No, Trapper and I were a team. I made the film. I made the film with him.

• 23:14Rich Roll?

  No, but I went and did-

• 23:16Speaker 01

  With Tyler.

• 23:17Rich Roll?

  Was it with Tyler? So we just went and got- We went, we went and got like a package of like really cheap white T-shirts, like Kane's underwear T-shirts from like Target or something like that, basically no money at all. And then got paint and sponges and then we, we painted a bunch of T-shirts and decorated them and gave one out to everybody and it was super fun and like we had a great time doing it. And Trapper made that video, which was great.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  He made a great video.

• 23:43Rich Roll?

  He made, like he made a short film that he presented to everybody.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  You guys laughed so hard. It was such a sweet, a sweet time.

• 23:49Rich Roll?

  And I remember that and yeah, like I, I think back on that experience quite fondly and I think that the kids do too. And, and I think it is more meaningful than just ripping open a bunch of stuff that's, you know, plastic wrapped and, and kind of, you know, temporal, like you just, you look at it, you're entertained for five minutes and then it's over.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  So I say, you know, figure out what you, what you can spend with each family member and how that allocates out and, and really how much you can spend without you being, you know, feeling like you have a stomach ache when January 1 comes around. That's just, it's just not good energy. It's just not good. Just don't do it.

• 24:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it'll just ratchet up the, the anxiety level too.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  It's a horrible energy.

• 24:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but I think it requires some, some family communication.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 24:35Rich Roll?

  And honing those communication skills. Cause they're, you know, as a guy, you're like, well, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to have to tell my kids I can't do this or whatever. So, you know, it requires some finesse around.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  But it's also just a reality, you know, it's not, it's not like, oh, you know, you have to act like you're the man that can like buy everything, you know, that's just, that's like old, that's like an old tired shoe.

• 24:58Rich Roll?

  Like Don Draper.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  No, that's just, that's like, that's Don Draper, that's, that's like a long time ago. No, it's about just communicating honestly, trying to figure out what you can do. And I say, you know, really try to get people what they want if, you know, if, if it's possible, but just, it's the excess thing. It's not, it's not 20 things, it's, you know, three things, you know, or one thing, one really big thing. And then you can have like some great plant-based. Pies and, you know, snacks and that kind of stuff, you know, plants, seeds, stuff like that.

• 25:33Rich Roll?

  For people that celebrate Christmas, let's talk about the tree thing.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Oh, golly, it's up again. We're having the debates going again. So last year, we did talk about this last year, so I remember.

• 25:42Rich Roll?

  Right, like, so the question is, like, what is this, what is the kind of responsible, sustainable thing?

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Well.

• 25:49Rich Roll?

  Like, do you, is it cool to get a tree? Do you get an artificial tree?

• 25:52Speaker 01

  I actually researched it.

• 25:53Rich Roll?

  What is the best thing to do? And I know you put some time into this, so what did you find out?

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Well, not that much, but I mean, we just, we started to get into the conversation. So finally, this year, I've been, I've been trying to get my family to simply put lights on a tree that exists off of our balcony and just use that as the tree. And I've been voted out every single year. So finally, my old, our oldest son, Tyler, who's now 19, he makes the announcement that he's with me this year, and Mathis bursts into tears. And so she's weeping and just like rolling around on the floor, right? So then I went, I know.

• 26:28Rich Roll?

  Precious little kids. This is their memories. They want to have, they want to have a Christmas is a thing.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  It is a thing. And so, and she's like, I like the smell. And I said, I know, that's why I've never gotten an artificial tree. I'm not a fan of artificial trees. But, so I researched it and, you know, you can find every, you know, anything you want online. But what I found is basically the carbon footprint of a lot of the trees are made with something that like lasts forever. Like it never.

• 26:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so the argument is, there is an argument that getting, that buying an artificial tree is more sustainable because you're not, you're not cutting down a tree.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  But actually, it's not true.

• 27:05Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Because when the Christmas tree growers, they're required to plant two or three seedlings for every tree they take. So actually,

• 27:17Speaker 01

  You know, there's a nice little sort of, you know, flow there. And also, you can take the tree and you can then compost it. So, so they were saying, in fact, the net-net, it's, it's actually more sustainable to get a tree and compost it.

• 27:33Rich Roll?

  To have a tree that's been cut down, provided that you mulch it, compost it, and then use it in your garden.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  And they have a lot of recycling centers now that recycle the Christmas trees. So they're not just going in the landfill, they're actually being used. So I haven't asked our expert biodynamic farmer, Ron Capri, yet, but I will. He's, he's our children's main teacher and total, you know, eartharian master consciousness person.

• 28:02Rich Roll?

  But I can't imagine that's more like sort of green or, or echo or sustainable than, than getting a live tree, roots and all, and then having that and then planting it in your yard.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  However, the only downside of that is that if you've looked at any of these trees, these saplings that are in the pots, they don't, they're not big like the trees, you know, they're not full like the trees that, that you would buy. And so that brings me to my argument, which I'm, again, trying to, trying to get people to join my camp. We have this beautiful jacaranda tree right in front of our living room. We would see it from inside and we could just decorate it so beautifully and we wouldn't, and it's already growing and it's big and beautiful and it's fantastic.

• 28:48Rich Roll?

  Mathis isn't having it.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  I won't make her cry, but, no, but, so, so we'll see. But again, here's, you know, here's this, here's this conversation once again, but I really don't feel that an artificial tree is the most sustainable. It doesn't feel like it to me.

• 29:15Rich Roll?

  Thanksgiving is, well, when this posts, it will be this week.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've gotta get cooking.

• 29:21Rich Roll?

  And, you know, a lot of people are gonna be going to big gatherings. And so, let's talk about kind of the emotional minefield.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Wow, the emotional minefield. Well, first of all, I would just say that it's really, really, really important right now that we do not lose our balance and get into any kind of hysterical or very amplified emotional emoting. That is, that is the worst thing that, that could happen, you know, at this time.

• 29:57Rich Roll?

  Why is it, why this time?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I would just say that there are...

• 30:02Rich Roll?

  Are you gonna go down like an astrology black hole?

• 30:06Speaker 01

  I am, actually.

• 30:07Rich Roll?

  All right, well, we don't need to get too detailed about that. I mean, what I'm getting at is...

• 30:11Speaker 01

  Are you like, do you don't want me to say it?

• 30:12Rich Roll?

  No, you could say what you want. I'm just saying, I wanna stay, I wanna focus on like strategies for kind of managing...

• 30:21Speaker 01

  You do. Are you trying to control the podcast right now?

• 30:23Rich Roll?

  Of course I am.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Instead of just let it flow organically?

• 30:26Rich Roll?

  I'm trying to control everything in my life at all times.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  You should relax. You should just relax and take a breath right there. No, I would say that, I mean, I would say that astrologically, I won't get into a bunch of things anyway. I don't follow it in that way, so I can't tell you what's conjunct, what, or, you know, what's going on with your house, or your sun, or your moon, or your rising. But I will tell you that I think most people will agree that October and also November have proven to be pretty intense months, just sort of across the board. There was a lot of, lot of things that were coming up for review, a lot of amplified emotions, a lot of things going on for most people that I know in my life.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  And I would say that around the holidays, everything is, is lined up to activate those impulses that are inside of you, which are triggers and buttons. From, you know, maybe this lifetime, maybe multiple lifetimes. But we really need to understand what is going on and that we have the power to take control, take responsibility and stay balanced, really at all costs, stay balanced. Because the energy is amplified. So if you choose to go into one of those descending spirals, it is not going to be pretty.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  So because the energy is amplified, it's going to take you further down than maybe you've ever gone before. So you really want to try to stay as balanced as possible.

• 31:59Rich Roll?

  Right, staying neutral. And that's easier said than done, you know, sort of taking responsibility for your, you know, your, your boundaries and, and, and trying to kind of create healthy boundaries and, and protect yourself. Like you know you're going into this situation. You know there's somebody there who can activate you. You know, all they have to do is say that one thing and it's going to set you off. And that button was installed, you know, since as long as you can remember, they know how to push it. They're probably going to push it. So what are you going to do to prepare yourself for that inevitable moment, you know, well, when you're sitting there, you know, drinking eggnog, you know.

• 32:38Rich Roll?

  And, you know, aunt whoever, or, you know, whoever it is, you're in that situation and you know it's going to happen. And then, you know, because what usually happens is, you know, it's going to happen, it happens and it plays out the way that it always does. And then you're like, why did I, why did I do that?

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, why did I do that? I knew I shouldn't have done that.

• 32:55Rich Roll?

  Why did I put myself in that position? Or why did I react that way again? You know, when you know, and you're, you know, in your heart of hearts, like you didn't want to react that way. Or, you know, you had another plan for how you were going to try to handle it differently. But the button gets pushed and you just go into reactive mode. And what you typically do is what ultimately happens again.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Right. And what it really feels like is that you've stepped into a great big pile of shit, basically.

• 33:21Rich Roll?

  And then you feel lousy and you're pissed at that person and you're mad at yourself.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  And you're covered in it.

• 33:25Rich Roll?

  And then you're depressed.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Right. And then, you know, the drinking comes and the eating comes. So, I mean, I think, you know, I think you were talking about boundaries. Let's just talk about boundaries for a little bit because I think that, you know, we're, I think we're raised, you know, we're raised to, to, to think that, you know, spirituality or being a good person means that, you know, you You should, you know, always go into these family situations. Like, that's the good thing to do because you're expected to go. You know, you're expected to show up for your family and you're expected to go, you know, be a part of whatever the celebration is.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  But I would say that you have to be the master of your, of your actions and you have to choose that for yourself. And so, in some cases, it may be more loving and compassionate for everyone involved, that the person who's the trigger person, yourself, and really the entire family unit. If you figure out a way how to split off and how to possibly have an alternate, you know, gathering that doesn't include all the complicated personalities that create the imbalance. So you could say, you know, you can take one, you know, one stance and go, "Well, I'm not going to do that because this is our family and this is what we're doing and this is, this is how we meet."

• 34:50Speaker 01

  But if every time you get together, it just doesn't go well, then, you know, did you really achieve anything? You know, who really won at the end of the day? When what you really want to foster is neutral, loving compassion and you want to have experiences that are balanced and that are loving and neutral. So, you might want to look to planning like an alternate gathering. Like, maybe you want to meet your, you know, part of your family for brunch on Christmas. Or maybe you want to schedule a later dinner. Or maybe you want to do it on Christmas Eve, possibly.

• 35:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that gets tricky too, though, because then it's like, "Oh, you're too good, you know, you're, you're too good to come to the thing that we always have and you want to do it your way this time and now we have to go," you know what I mean?

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, you know, sometimes too, if there's been enough explosions happening and they can see the pattern, you know, you might have people that agree with you and go, "You know, you're right. At the end of the day, all you want to do is have some loving exchange that's, that's not amplified." Because, in the end, it's not going to be good for anybody at the end of the day.

• 36:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Saying no is hard.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  It is, but sometimes it's really important and sometimes it's the most loving thing you could do, you know? And- Really, you really need to take care of yourself. You need, no one is gonna take care of you except you. So you need to find a way to take care of yourself and figure out how that works for you. And then honor it, you know, because you're not gonna get any big medal because you went and sat at the dysfunctional Christmas table and, you know, ended up, you know, smashing glass or, you know, I don't know, you know, if it gets really bad.

• 36:34Rich Roll?

  You might get a medal for that.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Might, I don't know, from who? I don't know from who. But I think this, you know, boundary thing is, so being spiritually loving doesn't always mean that you just, that you're just open and you unwittingly go into situations that may not be serving the highest good. You, it's like you're a grown up now, we're kind of grown ups and we need to sort of make those decisions and sort of go, and really look at it almost like it's the little part of you that gets amplified or gets activated, so you could call like the inner child or the, you know, the little child that's inside of you. And many times, many of us don't take care of that child.

• 37:17Speaker 01

  So you almost have to, from your higher self, speak to your, you know, your inner child and say, "I'm going to take care of you." Like, "I'm gonna make sure that I don't put you in a situation that is not gonna end up being good for you and then maybe not good for anybody else."

• 37:33Rich Roll?

  So what are some of those self-care techniques that, that somebody could, you know, hone or work on?

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the first thing is, you know, eat a, eat a high vibrational, you know, plant-based diet, I mean predominantly. Get it, get as much greens in your diet as you can. Make sure you're eating well. Don't eat processed sugar. Completely eliminate refined sugar from your diet. You can have dates, you can have maple syrup, honey, you can have fruit. Sorry, honey people, but if it's sustainably consciously harvested, then you can have a little honey. So... I think it's diet is the first thing and to have whatever your movement plan is, whether you're, whether you practice yoga, whether you train, you know, that has to come first. So that kind of, you know, just, you know.

• 38:22Rich Roll?

  Just basic self-care.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly, basic self-care. And then after that, I would say that you should learn that you are much more than a physical body. You are not just a human being, you are a spiritual being, having a human experience. And with this comes a responsibility of understanding that thoughts are things, emotions are things, and you have an energy field of which you have the responsibility to care for. So some beginning techniques of this, I mean, you can download my meditation, Jai Rilis, and I am because the, let's say, first, I think it's the third track is an actually extensive tree sealing technique that you could follow along, you could just suit up, I call it suiting up.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  So you just do the visualization and you, you basically surround yourself in a container of energy so that you're, it's just part of housekeeping. So you're contained, so you're going to be a lot less vulnerable if you walk into a room with someone who has a pain body that's out and willing, you know, ready to go or ready to engage, either out of, you know, of course, it's, it's all out of suffering, it's all out of pain and sadness, you know, sometimes it's masked with anger, but really what's in there is sadness, we're all just little children at the heart.

• 39:41Rich Roll?

  Or fear.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, fear.

• 39:44Rich Roll?

  But I think that, you know, kind of creating that, it's like you're, you're working on and visualizing and meditating on this idea that there's this energy boundary that's surrounding you. And I think the more kind of you do practice, you know, this meditation technique or, or whatever meditation technique works best for you, the less reactive you become. So you can walk into a situation, whether it's a family dinner or whatever it is, and when somebody says something that traditionally would trigger you, instead of impulsively going into that reactive mode where you say the thing you always say, when that trigger is pushed. You have the ability to pause and reflect and make a choice.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:28Rich Roll?

  As opposed to, so you have control over.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Your reaction.

• 40:32Rich Roll?

  Over your response.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Right, response.

• 40:34Rich Roll?

  You're not reacting, you're responding.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:36Rich Roll?

  You're consciously responding and that conscious response is a reflection of a conscious choice that you're making as opposed to an impulsive, unconscious, reactive kind of.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 40:48Rich Roll?

  Impulse.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  It doesn't mean you're not going to feel the button. You'll feel the trigger. And but you.

• 40:53Rich Roll?

  But you'll have that moment.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  You'll have that moment.

• 40:56Rich Roll?

  Time will stretch a little bit and you'll be able to, you know, kind of see through it and see to the other side of where it will go and then walk down a different path.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 41:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and that's super powerful.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  It is. And it's just.

• 41:12Rich Roll?

  The one time that it worked for me.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  The one time, that one time.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  That's funny. Well, but, you know, I've been having, my latest thing that's been coming in my meditation, which I wanted to share is this idea that, okay, so we're living, we're living past, present, and future as happening simultaneously. And so, everything is being brought into the present moment, right? You say, it's all about the now, be present in the now, you know.

• 41:43Rich Roll?

  I feel like I'm watching Interstellar right now.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  That's so good. Just go see it. Everybody go see Interstellar. It's really amazing. But no, it's about, if you can just feel like, feel like a suction, like imagine, imagine that you've traveled in this life and in, you know, many, many lifetimes and possibly in multi-dimensional spaces, possibly even simultaneously, we're existing. And just for a minute, grab all your energy, like draw all of the energy that you've given to any of these places and draw it, ask that it be brought down, brought back into

• 42:28Speaker 01

  your center, into the moment of now. So if you can feel yourself like a suction, like you're just kind of. Sucking it all back and you're calling it all back to you, you're calling all of your energy back. Please give me all of my energy back. I'm taking it all back. And I'm having this very visceral experience of the power of that. And, you know, I was talking to Howard on a podcast I was on yesterday.

• 42:55Rich Roll?

  Howard Jacobson.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, you know, I was talking to him about, you know, it's, it's very, very simple. It's like when grandma said, you know, keep your hands to yourself. Like, pull all of your energy back and give it back to yourself and then integrate that into who you are. And I think many of us have had our focus in places where it doesn't belong. And that could have been in, in another life, in someone else's business, in someone else's judgment. You know, we're all so quick to judge somebody else and say what, what would be right for somebody else. And just what if you took all of that energy that you are sending to all these other places and you just brought it back into your own self? You

• 43:41Speaker 01

  know, what would happen? How powerful would you feel? How much more energy would you have? How mu- how much more creativity would you have and inspiration? You know, and you think of that, there's parts of us that are, that are not even home. They're not even home because we've left them in other realms.

• 44:00Rich Roll?

  It's, it's like a crisis of identity. You know, there's, we all know that person who's just up in everybody else's business all the time. Well, did you hear what Becky did? And, oh, so and so is getting divorced. And they're just living in everybody else's drama all the time.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Right, or like reality TV.

• 44:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, or investing in, it's basically just investing in other people's, you know, in this sort of, you know, schadenfreude kind of way. And who are they? You know what I mean? There's no focus on the interior or, or developing or, or growing the self. It's all, it's all invested in other people's situations. You know what I mean?

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:38Rich Roll?

  You know, and part of that is, you know, I guess harmless or fun or on some level like, oh, you know, it's like reading People Magazine or watching reality TV is a, is a version of that.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think you think that it's harmless. I think we think that it's harmless. And I think there's going to be a day where they're going to say, look at what they used to do with their energy. They used to read these magazines, you know. First of all, like nothing even really happens in the magazine anyway. I mean, you think you're going to read something and then they, you know, it's a trick. Like, there's not really any real news in there. So it's just a waste of time.

• 45:10Rich Roll?

  You know, click here and you'll be amazed at what you find out.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Right. No. So the thing is, is it's like, we, we can say that it's harmless, but it's not harmless. And the hour is, um, it's important. It's an important moment right now. This is your life. This is your energy that you're, you know, this is your energy. So if we're talking about self sustainability and being like a whole person, or like, you know, I always say the, the, the real self sustainable ecosystem is the, you know, spiritual being having a human experience. That's the real self sustainable system right there. So, you know, what if we stop judging everybody else or sending our energy out all over the place and we just brought it back in to ourselves so that we could feel ourselves and we could

• 45:57Speaker 01

  connect to our heart and we could, you know, find out what we're supposed to do in the hours that we're here on the planet. And we could make that higher vibrational choice around the holidays.

• 46:08Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. But that's frightening. I mean, setting aside the idea that, that, that it requires certain tools to actually do that. I think a lot of people are threatened by that because, or on an unconscious level possibly, just because the idea that, oh, if I'm not, if my energy is not in all of those things, then I have to look at myself. And, you know, a lot of that energy going outward is because people are Afraid of that inside work, or they don't want to do it, or they're terrified of what they might find.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Or maybe they're just hypnotized and they haven't even thought about it.

• 46:41Rich Roll?

  That's probably true.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Because there's just so much stuff going on. But it, I mean, what's scary about embodying yourself? You know, I mean, it's the most empowering thing I could think of, you know? And it's, I'm feeling it very, very, very amplified, very, very viscerally, and you really can, you really can aggregate and accumulate and reclaim parts of yourself that you haven't even been in touch with, that you haven't even connected with.

• 47:13Rich Roll?

  Well, how do you do that, man?

• 47:16Speaker 01

  Well, I would meditate. You can go into meditation and put your awareness on your heart. And you can start to breathe in and out. That hat looks really...

• 47:31Rich Roll?

  I just put a hat on.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  It looks really bad over the, uh...

• 47:34Rich Roll?

  Come on, continue.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  He looks like...

• 47:36Rich Roll?

  Just go ahead.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  He looks like a Rasta basketball head. I don't know what's going on.

• 47:40Rich Roll?

  It's a little cold in here. Go ahead. Sorry, I interrupted you.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  I was in my moment and it just, I don't know.

• 47:45Rich Roll?

  I took it away from you.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you took it out. Anyway, so putting your awareness on your heart and starting to inhale and exhale. And so, you want to, you know, inhale as slowly and deeply as possible, fully inhaling all the way. And then pause at the top. And then very slowly and mindfully exhale, very, very, very fluidly.

• 48:12Rich Roll?

  When you say mindfully, I mean, what are you putting your focus on?

• 48:14Speaker 01

  Um, just put your awareness in your heart, just in a very soft way. And you also could put your awareness like on your nostrils, like the point where the breath enters the nose.

• 48:25Rich Roll?

  So you're breathing in through the nose and exhaling through the mouth?

• 48:28Speaker 01

  No, inhale in through the nose and out through the nose ideally. But don't get caught up in it. If you can't do that, then just breathe. Just take long, deep inhales, followed by long, deep exhales. And then eventually, you'll want your exhale to get twice as long as your inhale. And then, after you do this, maybe, do it like maybe 20 times until you're in a relaxed state, and then put your awareness on your heart and ask yourself, meaning your greater self, to return to you all of your energy, you know, I state that you would like to reclaim

• 49:09Speaker 01

  all of your energy that has been diverted, or usurped, or taken to other people, place, things, dimensions, and ask that it be returned to you now as your God-given sovereign right. And make the statement that you wish to embody yourself fully.

• 49:29Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  And that would be a start.

• 49:32Rich Roll?

  Right. And so, how often should we do this?

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Well, do it every day, at least. But, you know, and just, you know, if someone's listening to this and they're resonating with it, they're, it's gonna, there's gonna be a light bulb that goes off and they're gonna go, "Yeah, you know, that's right." You know? And, and just start to draw all your energy, I mean, don't you want to have all, all of your energy that, that belongs to you, that comes to you as a creation? You would.

• 50:02Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. And that's, doesn't take any time.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  No. And it's free. It doesn't cost any money.

• 50:08Rich Roll?

  It's cheap and it's quick.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  It's cheap and it's good.

• 50:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I think you can do shorter versions of that, too, just in throughout your day, you know?

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely.

• 50:17Rich Roll?

  In the car, or when you're having a moment, just to close your eyes, and even if it's just three or four breaths, to like, it's almost like rebooting your computer, you're just hitting, you're doing like a system reset.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  That's right. And I mean, I did an energy, there's an energy process, I think, that I did on the podcast, on the last podcast last year.

• 50:34Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. I think it's episode 60. I'll put the link up to it in show notes if you want to refer back to that.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  But, I mean, it's really about, you know, understanding that you're a spiritual being, having a human experience, taking the care to make sure that you did something to, to...

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Protect and contain and amplify your energy body. Okay, that is different than your physical. So that's an exercise, right? A visualization, a feeling, an activation, an intention. If you can't visualize, simply intend it in your mind. Like, ask for it. And it's okay, it's enough. Your higher self knows what to do. Your higher self will set it up. So make sure that you're doing some spiritual housekeeping. We can't keep walking around saying, "Oh, you know, we're spiritual beings and we meditate." And then, you know, laugh when someone talks about, you know, these, uh, these energy feels that are affected by, you know, thoughts, emotions, people projecting stuff onto you,

• 51:32Speaker 01

  possibly, um, you know, any kind of pain bodies that have gotten into a little tangle or scuffle, or, you know, any, any suppressed pain that you're bearing that then, you know, causes it to activate in somebody else. Like, all of these things, these are real things that actually affect us. They affect our health. Um, you know, I was talking to Howard yesterday about, um, you know, when I healed myself of, of the cyst in my neck. And, and we really got down to sort of the, the nucleus of that. And it was that I had this extreme faith that I believed that my body would heal. You know, and I was also supported by, you know, the practices of Ayurveda and this amazing doctor. And I was sharing with him that I have another friend that I was trying to help heal from,

• 52:17Speaker 01

  you know, some issues. And he doesn't believe that he can be healed. And so, that belief is so strong. And, you know, Howard was talking about the placebo, placebo effect and just how, how much we know how strong those beliefs are.

• 52:33Rich Roll?

  The placebo effect is so strong that even when you know it's a placebo, it still works.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:39Rich Roll?

  You know, it's crazy. But I think implicit in everything that you're saying, like, you know, kind of the, the general theme here is that as you enter into the holidays, you start to get pulled in a million different directions. And the theme of the season is giving. And, you know, you wanna, you, you're, you're extending a lot of energy outwards. And a lot of it is oriented around taking care of other people or engaging with other people. But you cannot... Give what you don't have. And so taking care of yourself first is paramount to being able to be in a healthy place where you can then provide care and give towards others.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. It's true. That's very well put. Yes.

• 53:24Rich Roll?

  And, you know, the holidays are supposed to be, you know, Thanksgiving, it's about giving, you know, and, you know, Christmas, whatever your version of, you know, the holidays that you celebrate is about just that. It's about, it's about gratitude and it's about service and it's about, you know, it's not about receiving, it's about giving. And these kind of things, you know, get lost in the shuffle of the consumerist kind of approach to everything. And I think the more that we can get in touch with the spirit of what it's really about as opposed to, you know, the physical trappings that surround it, you know, the Madison Avenue version of it, the better. But, but I think that, that self,

• 54:07Rich Roll?

  it begins and ends with self-care. And it's easy to forget that because you're like, I gotta be there for all these other people, you know, we gotta go here and I gotta take care of this and that, that, that it's easy to rationalize or, or just, you know, sort of discard the self-care aspect of it. In the, you know, in the, in the spirit of being there for other people or being of service. I can't take care of myself today because I have to go be of service to these people. But, but if you skip that first step, then what you're able to give is not really the full extent of what you could give if you do take the time to care, to care for yourself first. Even if you don't feel like you have time, you have to make that time.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  You have to. It's, it's crucial. It's critical to have a foundation and to have yourself well established so that you can be a healer instead of a garbage can. If you're, if you are not established and you are not in balance and you try to help somebody, you simply become a receptacle for more imbalance, I'll call it, you know. So, and I really think that, you know, that we, the Christ principle, and, you know, I say Christ principle, I'm not, I'm not Christian, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. And that means I'm interested in the energy that connects all of us, that there is no separation, there's no dogma. But if you looked at what a real Christ principle is, it would be seeing the highest

• 55:34Speaker 01

  Evolution or the highest expression of every single person that you know in your life and holding that vision with love and compassion. So I think the other part of us drawing all our energy back in from where our energy's been, the other sort of distinction of that is where have we been judging somebody in our life? Where have we been summing somebody up in our life? Or analyzing someone in our life? That's a national pastime. Well, it's a, it's a, it's not a high vibrational pastime. And it doesn't really produce a high energy. So if you think of, you know, listen, humanity is amazing and I really do believe that.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  And I mean, I think we saw in the downloads for David last Week. Last week, you know, it's beautiful. Everybody loves to see someone rise from that place. I mean, it's just so inspiring and how lovely, how beautiful for him that he was able to tap into that and able to translate it into something so visceral and so compelling and just so evident, you know, like in his own physical self. And how beautiful that everybody is inspired by that. And that's where we need to have our attention. You know, how would it be if we were just, you know, looking at David the way that he

• 57:00Speaker 01

  was and we were saying horrible things about him or wishing the worst for him? So what I'm saying is there are people in your lives, people have issues, you know, everybody has problems, everybody has shortcomings. And if we really want to help people or we really want to embody the spirit of the holidays, it would be a great experiment for us to say, okay, for this entire season, I'm only going to see the best in those around me. And when I go, when I begin to say the negative thing, or the judgment, or the criticism, or the satire, or the sarcasm, I'm going to take a breath and I'm going to say something nice about that person.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  And I'm gonna, I'm gonna choose to just look at the, at the, at the best in them. And even if they're not there yet, knowing that they're going to get there, that would be truly the spirit of.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  The holidays.

• 57:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's really powerful. And inevitably, you're going to lapse into the whatever historical behavior pattern you have, but to be able to catch yourself and then create a new habit around that, I think is pretty powerful.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  And it's actually kind of, we're just a little lazy. I think we're just a little lazy and we think it doesn't really matter. You know, oh, it doesn't matter. We're just, you know, we're just making fun of somebody like it doesn't really matter. And, you know, don't get me wrong, I love to laugh at myself, you know, and I love humor. But there is a point where it's, it's just not productive. It's not uplifting. It's not holding the higher ground for someone else. And, you know, I think that's partly what you and I have done in our relationship, what we have managed to do, not that we do it always, but we manage to do it most of the time. And I think it's holding that high vision of knowing somewhere, somehow,

• 58:56Speaker 01

  that there was a bigger force that was going to work through you and work through me. And it was going to lead us to some place that neither one of us had ever even dreamed of really before. And, you know, we have that power every single moment of the day. And, you know, we like to say, and you know, the plant-powered movement and, you know, you can vote with your dollar, you know, you can vote with your dollar with the meal you buy or the food you buy, but you know what? You can vote with your consciousness. And you can choose to see somebody in the highest light and help them. That actually will help them actualize that. And what a beautiful gift of giving. What a beautiful spirit that is.

• 59:41Rich Roll?

  I think that that is, that's a really cool thing. Vote with your consciousness. I think that's going to be the title of the blog post.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  That's going to be Beyond the Kale. It's the next Beyond the Kale, you guys.

• 59:53Rich Roll?

  Vote with your consciousness.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Vote with your consciousness, yeah.

• 59:55Rich Roll?

  VoteWithYourConsciousness.com.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Absolutely. We better get it before we put this up.

• 1:00:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I like that. And, you know, one of the things that I've been kind of drilling down to something more specific. I mean, one of the things that I've been focused on is I have to do, I'm like, I'm like you, I'm not a multitasker. I can only focus on one thing at a time.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  And that's mostly, you know, men are, men tend to be more like that. And women tend to be more multi-dimensional, sort of.

• 1:00:22Rich Roll?

  But I've been, I've been focused on... You know, I'm a competitive person.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Really? Really, you are? Competitive?

• 1:00:29Rich Roll?

  And, uh, and, and that competitive nature flies in the face of this higher consciousness ideal that, that, you know, the pie is infinite, right? Because competitiveness suggests that there's, that there's a limited supply.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:46Rich Roll?

  Right? And you're driven to be at the top to get yours so that so and so doesn't get theirs because there's only so much to go around.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:00:55Rich Roll?

  And that's not a high vibrating approach.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:00:57Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? And the truth is, is that, that, that the pie is infinite and there's plenty for everybody. And so, so what I'm, I've been very consciously and actively engaged in, in kind of celebrating the people that in my mind I'm competing with, that I'm not actually competing with. You know what I mean? Like, like in whatever aspect, from tiny little things throughout the day to whatever, you know, like who's ahead of me on the freeway when I'm trying to get somewhere and he's in my way to larger aspects of my life. But, but to just be psyched for people that are doing, you know, amazing things as opposed to looking at it at like, why is that guy doing that when I should be doing that?

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:40Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:41Rich Roll?

  Like getting out, because that's been my mindset my whole life.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's most people's mindset here. Yeah.

• 1:01:46Rich Roll?

  And to be, and, and not only that, but to go out of my way and like get in touch with the person and say, you know what? What you're doing is really awesome. I'm really happy for you that that's going so well for you right now.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  But that's amazingly powerful.

• 1:01:58Rich Roll?

  It is.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  And it's great.

• 1:01:59Rich Roll?

  Really powerful.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  It's a great practice.

• 1:02:00Rich Roll?

  And it's transformed how I feel about myself in a short period of time.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Talk more about that.

• 1:02:06Rich Roll?

  Even just doing a couple of those, taking that action, you know, in a couple of instances over the last, you know, week has been, has changed how is, it's like a...

• 1:02:17Rich Roll?

  I don't know, it's a good, it's an esteemable act, you know what I mean?

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Rich Roll?

  And it just feels good, that's all.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Well, it's good because it vibrates out and then you're sitting with that instead of sitting with the judgment. Because the judgment comes from within yourself and this is what, it's like, you know, people go, oh, well, that's so stupid. You know, when, you know, when, when, when I say, you know, that it's not a competition, you know, life isn't a competition. If you really can start to get your head around that, you know, I was in the car this week and Jaya, you know, Jaya's really kind of upset because Mathis is now almost 11 and, you know, her brothers took her to her first rock concert and they went and saw Tame Impala like, you know, last week and then Mathis got to come to see Interstellar with us. We went to the Chinese theater and, you know, Jaya's about had it.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  She's like, you know, she's getting everything and I'm getting nothing, you know, and so we had to have this conversation about, you know, Jaya is not a competition, you know, you have all the energy that God made you with. You have everything for yourself to actualize yourself. And so it's not about that if she gets to do something that you don't get to do it, but it's a complete rewiring of our system. And I certainly wasn't successful with her in that one conversation. There's going to have to be some, you know, demonstration and, you know, I tried to talk to her about how, you know, we're all here to support each other to actualize ourselves and to find out what you really love to do. And she said, well, I don't really know what I love, you know, and here she's seven.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  And I said, yeah, I know, I said, but, you know, we're just going to keep supporting you and loving you until you find that out. And then we're all just going to help you to like, do that, like whatever you're going to do. But your energy is not tied to Mathis. It has nothing to do with that. You have a direct connection to Source, a direct, you don't have to go through anybody. You go right, right to the Source and get whatever you want. So I think that if we really try to imbibe that or bring that into our consciousness, that each one of us, and, you know, just look at nature, like, everything is created inherently with enough energy to sustain itself, to fully actualize itself.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  I mean, unless, you know, an accident happens or, you know, you know, someone steps on that snail, you know, or, you know, I mean, there's that, there's that factor, but. That would be a karmic thing, which is another subject. But, you know, that's a really powerful, really compassionate awareness to, you know, to step into, the one that you're in now. It's amazing.

• 1:04:54Rich Roll?

  Did, uh, do you think Jaya got where you were coming from?

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think she got a little bit where I was coming from. You know, I think it's gonna take, she, you know, she's gonna see back and forth example and, you know, and, you know, it's, it's, she, you know, she just wants to go to the concert, you know, so, and I get that.

• 1:05:12Rich Roll?

  She's seven.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  She's seven. She's so, but she's, you know, she's the youngest and she doesn't want to be the youngest and, you know, she's very...

• 1:05:20Rich Roll?

  Hmm, being the youngest is hard.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's also great. I was the youngest.

• 1:05:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, you were just left alone to do whatever you wanted. Your parents were over it.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Rich Roll?

  So...

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  I liked it.

• 1:05:34Rich Roll?

  That was fraught with its own...

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  I had a lot of freedom.

• 1:05:36Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  A lot of freedom.

• 1:05:49Rich Roll?

  All right, so we talked about kind of the financial implications, the consumerist implications of the holidays, the emotional implications. Why don't we get it, let's get into the, like, sort of extending from the emotional implications is, is this idea of, of kind of medicating ourselves with food and, you know, everything that comes with, with the holidays. And, you know, I want to explore a healthier avenue to pursue, to kind of come out the other side of Thanksgiving holiday season and not be in that place of like, ugh, you know, I put on 15 pounds, I eat like crap the whole time, I'm starting over again. Like, how can we, how can, how can, you know, people who are listening out there come

• 1:06:33Rich Roll?

  up with a new, better strategy?

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I think first of all, we already talked about that. So you have to take care of yourself. So you have to have been doing your movement, whatever that is, your exercise, your running, your training.

• 1:06:45Rich Roll?

  But let's say, like, you know, you're going to a dinner and they're going to be doing the whole nine yards.

• 1:06:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:50Rich Roll?

  You know, like, how are you going to get through that dinner?

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Right. So, I mean, what you're going to do is, one thing that you can do is, is you need to become a really great cook. You need to show up wherever you're going and be a plant-based advocate. You know, bring some amazing dish of something to share, or bring three dishes to share. You know, go out of your way and take the extra time and show up with some good, just some good recipes and some good food so that you can inspire somebody else that might be at the party that, you know, might not eat this well, or might not know that you can make such amazing, you know, dairy-free, gluten-free, cruelty-free

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  dishes. So I would say that you have to up your game in what you bring. So it's about what are you bringing? That's the first thing. The second thing I would say is, of course, you have your tool of making sure that you drink a really vibrant green blend, thick one, before you go. Like, make sure it has, like, you know, some chia seeds in it, or maybe some fresh coconut, or maybe even some avocado. Make sure that it has some substance to it so that you're not starving. So do that before you go, definitely. And then, you know, depending on, you know, if you want to stay away from alcohol and you want to try not drinking this year and not taking all the sugar in and all the calories, and

• 1:08:16Speaker 01

  then also, also the up and down emotional swing. You know, we like to pack our own kombucha. You know, we arrive with a six-pack of, you know, Dave's.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  You know, and just have that and it's bubbly and it kind of, you know, tastes, you know, sort of festive and you can pour it in a beautiful wine glass or a beautiful champagne glass and you can have a great time and you can leave and not be drunk and not have a headache.

• 1:08:44Rich Roll?

  Right. I think a lot of people get really worked up emotionally about these situations because we project onto the other people that they're going to be upset or, you know, it's like, well, what are they going to think if I don't eat this? Or, and the truth is, like, in my experience, in the years that we've been doing this and the number of dinners that we've showed up at, dinner parties or whatever, that aren't like, you know, they're serving something that isn't exactly, you know, in alignment with our program.

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  Right, well, we just...

• 1:09:16Rich Roll?

  Like, it's just, it's not as hard as you think and you have to understand that almost everybody is up in their own head and they're thinking about themselves and their own problems and they don't care. They don't care if you, you know, like, what if I, what am I going to do if, if, you know, they ask me if I want a beer and I'm not going to drink tonight? Like, how am I going to handle that? It's like, people don't, they really don't care.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? And maybe somebody will say, oh, you know, oh, okay, or whatever, there'll be a moment, but like, then that moment's over and it's forgotten. And, you know, maybe there's the rare exception of somebody who's going to give you a little shit or something like that, but honestly, it's no big deal. And anybody who really cares about that kind of stuff is not somebody who's, who's really being compassionate towards you.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. And I mean, I just think, you know, show up with your own stuff. You know, bring enough to share for some other people and then just make sure you're covered. Make sure you have a drink that you enjoy, you know, that's...

• 1:10:11Rich Roll?

  You're bringing, you're giving, so it's not like, you're not offending them by bringing that stuff.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  No, and I think I would also just try, I mean, I remember when, when I stopped drinking wine and I'm not an addict, although I have had my share of drug use and alcohol abuse, you know, definitely in...

• 1:10:34Speaker 01

  And so, you know, I've definitely gone down that road, but I was never an addict. But I just, when I found yoga and I started practicing more and more yoga, then the wine just sort of dropped me. Like, I didn't decide I was gonna stop drinking wine. I was drinking it and I was noticing increasingly that it wasn't producing a desired result. Like, I would drink it and then the next day, I just wouldn't really feel on my game. Or the next day, I would have a headache. Or I found with me, like, the upside or the time where it really felt good was simply like a 15-minute period from when I sipped it. And then it was, it was a good feeling for like 10 or 15 minutes and then it just

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  tanked after that. So after some experiment-

• 1:11:22Rich Roll?

  That's why you have to keep drinking.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  No. Oh, my God, I just get sick.

• 1:11:26Rich Roll?

  I can't even, I don't relate to like, the whole idea of it.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:11:29Rich Roll?

  Of it just dropping away.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Cause you're an addict, I know. But it's just different. But I would just say that if you've been, you know, going back and forth and sort of like, you know, "Oh, I drank again, I didn't feel that well," I would just try it one time. You know, just take a kombucha one time, or take a sparkling cider one time, and just go insert yourself in the party and then see, you know, see how it happens, how it goes. And my experience is, you know, you still have just as much fun, you just feel better. And you don't have the extra pounds, you don't have the hangover, and you still saw everybody you wanted to see, you still laughed, they were all drinking, that was okay. But, um, you know, I just, I find that, you know, once you're sort of on this lifestyle path, it's

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  not, you know, drinking large amounts of alcohol just really don't go that well with it. I don't think so.

• 1:12:22Rich Roll?

  Definitely not for me.

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. But I mean, you, you know, you say to me sometimes, you're like, "You should drink, you can, like, have a drink," you know, "or you used to years ago."

• 1:12:31Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  I just don't want to, you know? It's not, I, I spend all this time cultivating my, you know, my, my sentient feelings, you know? I wanna feel what's going on. I don't wanna dull that down. And I'm so sensitive, too. Like, I'll just, I'll have a massive headache. So, even with like, one glass of wine, I'm just, headache.

• 1:12:53Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, what else, what else can we talk about with the holidays? What else does it bring up for you?

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:13:00Rich Roll?

  For other people?

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Something happened? No, it's not. Kind of got quiet there. Um, I don't know. What else does it bring? I mean, for me, it's the, you know, it's the, it's the death of the year. It's where everything dies into itself. And so I, I find it very violent that there's this huge consumerism at this time of year, when all I want to do is stay in my bed extra hours and sort of be an introvert.

• 1:13:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it is that.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  It's counter, it's very counterintuitive to the natural cycle of life.

• 1:13:30Rich Roll?

  I think our biological clock is really rigged, you know, unless you're in Australia, you know, unless you're in the southern hemisphere.

• 1:13:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would be great.

• 1:13:37Rich Roll?

  I mean, you really do kind of want to dial it back and just like, you know, just take it easy. And yet, there's this, this incessant pressure that's pushing you outwards to go really expend a tremendous amount of resources at a, at a time when, you know, I feel like we should just be like hibernating.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  It's like hibernating, or like bears in the den.

• 1:13:58Rich Roll?

  I know. And I think that that, that ramps up the, the kind of dissonance and the anxiety that comes with it.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Well, and that's why you want to stay in balance and you want to make sure that you don't overspend. I mean, really, really don't do that. Like, don't buy into that. That's a really negative place to be. And, you know, you know, when you live a conscious life and when you're connected and you're plugged in to the people that are close to you, it's like, you know, every day is a day of giving. Every day is a day of giving thanks. So it's like, we can start to limit the amount of excess. And, you know, I definitely do around my house, like, you know, I don't take the kids to, you know, 10 celebrations. You know, I try to just condense it and make it pretty linear and pretty focused so that, you know, when they have Christmas, that was on Christmas. Like, they didn't have four parties leading up to it, you know?

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  And the same thing, really, about every holiday for me.

• 1:14:50Rich Roll?

  And that goes back to the power of saying no. Like, you don't have to say yes to everybody's social obligation. You know, pick one or two. And, and it's okay to say no.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:01Rich Roll?

  You know, you can still be friends with the people that you're politely declining.

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:06Rich Roll?

  So there's a way of navigating that, that is part of that self-care equation, I think.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  That's right, there is. And boundaries are very, very important. It's important to listen to ourselves and to listen to our children and see how everybody's feeling. And, you know, I wouldn't call it a success if you end up going to all these parties and then everybody's sick. You know, then, how many people get sick over the holidays? They're just sick for like two weeks or something. So what's the, what's the use in that?

• 1:15:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you've overextended yourself. And without that, without that healthy boundary, you do become that kind of receptacle for everybody else's energy and stuff. And then, and I think that leads to people getting sick. You get overextended, you're, you're, you're taking in all this energy from all these different people. You're not, you're not protecting yourself, you're not taking care of yourself. And you get turned inside out. And then you come out the other side exhausted. And that's why everybody has to set, you know, set resolutions for the new year because they're so like, you know, there's a level of, I mean, part of that is informed by some level of like disgust with,

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  What they did.

• 1:16:15Rich Roll?

  You know, I can't do this anymore. I have to start fresh.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Now I'm gonna start.

• 1:16:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, now I'm gonna, you know, and then, and it's this vicious cycle that just repeats itself.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's, you know, I think it's intended. I think it's been, I think it's been designed that way so that we, we are knocked off balance and, and we're reeling, you know, some of us for the entire year recovering from what happened in, for two weeks in December. Like, are you kidding me? Like, how, how, you know, how uninformed are we? You know, you can make a different decision and you can approach it in a different way. So, you know, my, my intention is, is really deep, meaningful experiences, not in excess and no excess. So really, I'm not saying, you know, that, you know, you shouldn't, you shouldn't celebrate or you shouldn't have fun or you shouldn't buy yourself something that you, you know, really want.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Want, I'm all about that. I'm just saying, you know, just don't do the excess and make it count. Make that, make whatever you do count. And if you have to organize an alternate, you know, get together for, you know, to avoid explosive family member, you know, energies, then do it and show up with, you know, with your best game. Show up with the best that you've got. And give and love and hold people in the highest and really be present when you're there and, you know, really interact and, you know, you can be in and out in three hours. And, you know, that person will remember that more than if you went to the family dinner and you sat there for 15 hours and watched football on the couch or something.

• 1:17:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think that's a really good point. You know, you don't have to go for the entire time. Go in and make whatever time you're spending there meaningful and substantial and then, and then exit yourself.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:18:04Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  So we're going for quality.

• 1:18:06Rich Roll?

  To be the last person to leave the party.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  You don't have to marathon it. Quality, not quantity. Definitely. Yeah, I think so. So, you know, all of that. And, um, yeah, this, uh, you know, it's funny. I had this, uh, this amazing teacher at FIDM when I went to the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising. He laughs from Stanford. That's a, that's a, that's a judgmental chuckle to my.

• 1:18:34Rich Roll?

  I just, I can't imagine you as a fashion designer.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  Really? You didn't know me then?

• 1:18:38Rich Roll?

  No.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Oh, well, I was. I was a good one, too.

• 1:18:41Rich Roll?

  I know you were.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:18:43Rich Roll?

  Go ahead.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  No, go ahead.

• 1:18:44Rich Roll?

  No.

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  You were gonna ask me something?

• 1:18:45Rich Roll?

  I interrupted you. Go.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  No, so I had this, I'm talking about sustainability and it's like, this has been something in my life. It's something that I'm aspiring to. And I, I had this fashion illustration, illustration teacher and her name was, I'm gonna get her name wrong, and she actually still exists and she's still teaching at FIDM. I think her name is Nancy Adelman. And, uh, she is just the most trippy looking lady artist. She's very, very, very stick thin. Um, she wears Cleopatra black eyeliner under her eyes. Um, and she wears these monolithic. Ceremonial type, really well-designed clothes. And they all interchange and go with each other. And she taught me how to, how to draw.

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  She's a, she's an extraordinary fashion illustrator. And it was really fun. She was actually the first one that unlocked my painting, drawing gene. Like, I didn't know I could until I was 29. And then I took her class and I was like, oh, you know, look at this, I could draw. So, but she lived in this studio apartment in East LA. And I went to her house once to, we used to have models and we would draw there. But she had these monolithic furniture that like all fit into each other. So that like the coffee table became the bed. It was literally like one room with the coolest furniture and the coolest designed clothing. And so, you know, when I, when I meditate on self-sustainability and, you know,

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  what it means to live consciously, I mean, just so you know, that's where I'm going. I'm, I'm, I'm going to a place where I have all my belongings interchanging and working with each other. Really good design. So it's not, it's not about that I don't care about the design. I care a lot about the design, but I want it all to fit seamlessly together and be almost like ceremonial, like it has a ceremonial purpose. Like almost you're, you're going back to a, you know, Aboriginal, you know, tribal way of, of having stuff. And you're a steward of that stuff forever, you know?

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  So then, and then the question is, you know, do you really want that thing that you think you want so badly? And, and how does it fit into your life? And so that's something that just really inspires me and excites me about getting your life so refined that you're, that you're living with objects or objets in her, in her case, in that very specific way.

• 1:21:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I think that, that compressing.

• 1:21:27Rich Roll?

  Your geography, you know what I mean? Like, if you bring the walls closer together in your living space, then it forces you to reckon with those items that you possess and say, is this something that I need? Or is this just something that's here? That's true. And I think this is a trend that's happening that's pretty interesting to watch. I mean, you know, it's not for nothing that suddenly everybody is inspired by the micro house movement and all these cool architecture designs that are coming out and people that are living in these tiny spaces, but they make them really cool. You know, and it's like, and you can go online and go on these little tours

• 1:22:11Rich Roll?

  and see these pictures of these tiny little spaces where couples and families are living. And they have exactly what they need, nothing more and nothing less. And there's a certain, I think there's a, there's something in our culture that's lacking where we look at that and we aspire to that on some level, but it scares us as well because it flies in the face of everything that we've sort of been programmed to, you know, consume and ye shall be happy, you know, keeping up with the Joneses and getting more and all that kind of stuff. And this is a reaction to that. It's like the pendulum swinging back the other way. And it's a cool thing. And we have friends that are doing it, you know?

• 1:22:54Rich Roll?

  We have our friend who's living on our property right now in an airstream, who was previously living in a large house. And he's gone through that process where he's gone through his stuff and said, you know, I don't need this. And he's very content in a very small living space right now. And it's a cool thing to see. And it really makes you think about that equation of, you know, materialism and happiness and the disconnect where we've really been brainwashed into believing that these physical things, you know, are somehow related to how we feel about ourselves. When in truth, it couldn't be more different. And the

• 1:23:35Rich Roll?

  The purging of all of that, you know, comes, there's a sense of kind of peace that comes with that.

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  There is.

• 1:23:41Rich Roll?

  And a deepening of your relationship with yourself. And I think when we lived in the yurts, you know, we experienced that on some level.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the teepee and the airstream.

• 1:23:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Also.

• 1:23:50Rich Roll?

  So we've had, you know, we've had those experiments, but we still live in the world now.

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  We do, we do. No, I find it extremely satisfying. There's something like, it's almost like taking a drink of water for me, like to have, to have something so, be so streamlined. And again, with me, it's not about, like, I'll spend thousands of dollars on something if that's the thing, if that's the one thing. You know, I'm a fashion designer, like, I used to, you know, do that. So I care deeply about design. I care deeply about my environment. So it's not just any environment, but it's a, there's something so inspiring about it being just really lean and really exact. So I'm excited.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  So don't be surprised if you see me in some ceremonial garbs that, you know, are monolithic and look kind of like...

• 1:24:42Rich Roll?

  Nothing that you would put on or say or do would surprise me anymore. Let's just say that. You know, but I think, yeah, what you're saying is that, is that the aesthetics of your environment are still important.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  Very important.

• 1:24:54Rich Roll?

  They, they inform, you know, more than we're consciously aware of. And you've spoken to this before. I mean, we have the privilege of living in a, you know, an architectural home and, and had the privilege of working with an amazing architect to, you know, construct this, this, you know, this house that we live in. And you're always commenting on how, or when we talk to Lorcan, saying, you know, how important that has been in, in, in really kind of informing our children's perspective. Like, it really has forged their lives in certain respects. And I think being conscious of your environment and the impact that that has is really kind of underlying that.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true. I mean, he has. He's, he's, he's informed all of our lives, maybe more than any single person that we've ever known. Because we live in his space every day, every moment, like every single act, every single thing that happens, happens in this container, which comes from his,

• 1:25:51Rich Roll?

  His imagination.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, his sensibility and his vision. It's so profound. I mean, architects are, they should be revered, you know, as the greatest healers, the greatest influencers. They're, it's crazy. The impact that this one man has made on our lives.

• 1:26:13Rich Roll?

  Right. And this is not to say that, you know, you need to have an amazing architect to, you know, inform your environment. Every, we all live in environments, and we all, I think the point is, is to be conscious about how you adorn your environment, and that how you do that, like exercising care with that, is impactful on your well-being.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  You know what fascinates me completely are those people that are living and they're generating zero trash.

• 1:26:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I just, I bookmarked an article to read that I didn't get to.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:26:45Rich Roll?

  I saw it the other day, like, some guys lived for an entire year and created zero trash.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  I have to sit, like, I have to study that. I have to see, because I have so much angst, like, even with the recycling. It's like, for years, I'm looking at this excess, you know, and I get so, so freaked out about it. And we're not, like, you know, but just as human beings, just a human being, the way that our life is designed, we generate an extraordinary amount of trash.

• 1:27:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's unbelievable.

• 1:27:14Speaker 01

  Oh, so bad.

• 1:27:15Rich Roll?

  It's unbelievable. I mean, talk about sustainability. I mean, you know, we need, we need, and that's an area where we can and should be doing a lot better. Like, we need to develop better strategies around, you know, our, the purchases that we make and the materials with which those, you know, products are made. I mean, it's insane.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  It's so bad.

• 1:27:36Rich Roll?

  The amount of garbage that a family of six produces.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  Seven, no.

• 1:27:40Rich Roll?

  Seven, no, Harrison, that's right. I mean, we have a lot of people living with us.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Drew, eight. Rain, nine.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  We have a commune going on at our house right now.

• 1:27:49Rich Roll?

  There's a lot of people at our house, you know, right? So there's a lot of, there's a lot of refuse that comes out of that, too. But, you know, we compost aspects of it that we can compost and we recycle what we can recycle. But even with that, there's still a tremendous amount of garbage. So just the idea that, that people could exist without creating any garbage at all. Like, I, I need to know how that.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  I need to know, I need to get, I need to get with that for sure. Yeah, absolutely, it is. But, you know, and so.

• 1:28:17Rich Roll?

  We gotta find those people and get them on the podcast.

• 1:28:18Speaker 01

  Let's do that. That would be, that would be good. That would be great. Yeah. And, um, you know, so, so then, you know, it's the excess. It's the, I think it's the excess of the holidays that feels the most uncomfortable to me. That, that, that's what feels out of balance. And it's also about living in harmony, you know, where it's like you have your needs met. You know, you have your needs met and it seems like the holidays are a time where, where you're over, you're over indulging, you're, you're way beyond your need level, you know, as a normal course of business, you know, in what the holidays are all about. And that's where it starts to feel bad inside of my body.

• 1:29:03Speaker 01

  Like, it's like, ooh, this is not, this is out of balance. So now I have to get that concept into my children's awareness.

• 1:29:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, good luck with that.

• 1:29:16Speaker 01

  No, we'll be, we'll be fine. We're, we're having, we're having a family meeting where, where there's discussions going on right now.

• 1:29:23Rich Roll?

  Look, Tyler's down, Trapper, Trapper is mellow with whatever.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  He'll go with you.

• 1:29:27Rich Roll?

  Harrison's mellow with whatever.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  It's the little girls, it's those little girls, those little children. No, we'll figure it out.

• 1:29:34Rich Roll?

  No, I understand. They want, they want Christmas in all its finery.

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  Mathis wants me to decorate the house with Christmas decorations and I won't do it every single year. And now I've realized that. She's, she's, she may, she's, she's suffering, like she really, really wants to do it. But I don't want to have all the stuff left, like after you do it. So I need you to come up with some really sustainable, creative, like, modern, amazing thing that you do with her, with, with the house. Could you do that?

• 1:30:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I can do that. And I want to encourage her because she, she wants to have a creative experience and she wants to create a memory around that. And that's important to her. She, she likes the idea of, of creating ceremony out of that. And for that, that's meaningful to her. And I think that's important. And so I would like to help engage her in that.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  Awesome. I'm excited to see what you guys are going to create. That's awesome.

• 1:30:24Rich Roll?

  Well, I'll bring Ron on to help with that.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:28Rich Roll?

  All right, cool. We got to wrap it up here.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  That's it?

• 1:30:30Rich Roll?

  I think.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  You don't have anything else you want to ask me?

• 1:30:33Rich Roll?

  I'm, I'm good.

• 1:30:34Speaker 01

  You're good?

• 1:30:34Rich Roll?

  You can come on next week for more.

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 1:30:36Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 1:30:36Speaker 01

  Okay, that's cool.

• 1:30:37Rich Roll?

  Um, as far as the eating aspect of, of the holidays, we have some recipes up on the Ritual website, uh, some holiday recipes. I think there's four or five that we put up a while ago. Um, so I'll put links up to those. I think there's cranberry recipe, there's a-

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  Gluten-free stuffing, pumpkin pie, is there?

• 1:30:56Rich Roll?

  Pumpkin pie, yeah.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Mushroom gravy, I think I did.

• 1:30:59Rich Roll?

  Uh, mashed potatoes.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:00Rich Roll?

  Just some of those, like, typical holiday kind of foods that you would prepare. And these are just healthier, plant-based versions of those that are delicious and hearty and will please anybody in your family.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 1:31:12Rich Roll?

  So, look out for those. And the other thing I wanted to say is, um, I'm thinking about the idea of adding a second, you know, we do one show a week. If we added a second show, if we did it, maybe not every week, but, but periodically, that is just like Q and A, where we take listener questions and we read them and then we discuss and answer the question. So I want to know, from you guys who are listening, would you be interested in that? Is that something that- That would be, I think it would be a cool way to engage the audience more directly.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  I think it would be.

• 1:31:48Rich Roll?

  And, and talk about the things that they want to hear. So, um, let me know what you think in the comments section on the blog post, uh, page for this episode. And also, um, why don't you just go ahead and if you have questions that you'd like us to talk about or specific things that you'd like answered, um, send us an email at [email protected]. That'll be the email address for the Q and A, the questions.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Okay, awesome.

• 1:32:15Rich Roll?

  What do you think about that?

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's a great idea.

• 1:32:17Rich Roll?

  That would be cool, right?

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, really cool.

• 1:32:20Rich Roll?

  And, uh, that's it. Beautiful Julie Piatt. Thank you for coming by the podcast.

• 1:32:25Speaker 01

  Thank you, sweetie.

• 1:32:26Rich Roll?

  That was enlightening.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:32:28Rich Roll?

  I think you gave some people some good takeaways and things that they can work on to improve their holiday experience.

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  I hope so. Are you gonna let me take him out with one of my songs?

• 1:32:39Rich Roll?

  Uh, I can do that. Um, we're not quite done yet, but are you gonna, uh, which song do you want me to?

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  Um, I think, I was trying to think. I think, uh, I think I'd like to, um, share a song called Be Loved. Um, I don't think I've shared that yet.

• 1:32:56Rich Roll?

  I don't know, I can't remember.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  And, uh, it's, um, it's a song actually that was, uh, I was asked to write it for a, a company that was, um, working with bees. Um, and they asked me to write a song, um, for them. And the company since isn't really doing anything. Um, but I really love the track and it's on my recent album that's called Jai Home.

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  And it's called Be Loved.

• 1:33:23Rich Roll?

  All right, so we'll take you out with that.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Right on.

• 1:33:26Rich Roll?

  And, uh, if you want to know more about Julie, you can go to her website, srimati.com, S R I M A T I dot com. And she's at Srimati on Twitter and at Srimati on Instagram where she's been lighting it up with tons of cool food porn and recipes and stuff like that.

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  And the food porn's gonna get more, it's gonna get more developed.

• 1:33:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  So, we're going into a storyline now. No, I'm kidding.

• 1:33:51Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:33:53Rich Roll?

  All right.

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:33:54Rich Roll?

  All right, well, thanks.

• 1:33:55Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:33:56Rich Roll?

  Cool. So, uh, before we sign off with this week's assignment, uh, a couple of parting announcements, um, if you want to learn more about how you can get More plants into your life. We have a course for that. It's called The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition. You can find it at MindBodyGreen.com. It's about three hours of streaming video content, downloadable tools. It's got an interactive community. It's pretty cool. Julie shares plenty of her recipes and tips to get your kitchen to the next level. So, check that out. And I have another course at MindBodyGreen.com, dot com, called The Art of Living with Purpose. And that's all about setting goals. It's kind of about

• 1:34:39Rich Roll?

  the interior work. So, if you're feeling stuck, you're not sure exactly how you, how to move forward in your life, in the direction of your dreams, you're looking to unlock a better version of yourself. Well, this course might be something that you'd be interested in. It's about, I think it's like two and a half hours of streamed video. Again, more downloadable tools, interactive support and all that kind of stuff. So, just go to MindBodyGreen.com, click on video courses at the top of the homepage, and you can learn more there. Also, at RichRoll.com, we've got nutritional products. We've got our e-cookbook, Jai Seed. We have Julie's meditation program. We've got merch. We've got more stuff coming. We're developing some cool new products. And you can find out more at RichRoll.com. Don't forget to

• 1:35:22Rich Roll?

  subscribe to the newsletter. I will not spam you. Just good stuff. Weekly podcast update and like offers and sales and things like that. What else do I want to say? Oh, yeah. Give us a review on iTunes. We need reviews.

• 1:35:38Speaker 01

  That would be good.

• 1:35:39Rich Roll?

  You know, it takes you two minutes. That would be great if you could do that. If you're in LA, stop by Joy Cafe. It's our new restaurant, feeling awesome, right in the heart of Westlake Village, off Agora Road on the 101. Julie is there all the time. And I'm there all the time. So, if you go there at lunchtime, or maybe for a late breakfast, a brunch.

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  You'll probably find us there.

• 1:36:03Rich Roll?

  Chances are, pretty good, you're gonna run into one of us. So, and if you do, please say hi. Enjoy delicious food. Engage the proprietors, Joy and Nick, in a hearty conversation.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:36:14Rich Roll?

  And leave feeling great.

• 1:36:16Speaker 01

  Don't forget to have a

• 1:36:18Rich Roll?

  And be inspired.

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  A cupcake from Karma, the Karma Baker, also.

• 1:36:21Rich Roll?

  That's right. We also partnered up, I haven't talked about that officially. I'll talk about it more, but the thumbnail is, is that we partnered with a gluten-free vegan baker called the Karma Baker.

• 1:36:34Rich Roll?

  I'll tell you guys more about that later, but it's, they're amazing desserts. They sell them at Joy Cafe. And there's gonna be more coming on that, too.

• 1:36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:41Rich Roll?

  Anyway, if you're enjoying the show and you're a recent, you're recently, you're new to the show. You know from iTunes that you can only get the 50 most recent episodes of the show there. And more than half of the catalog is not available on iTunes. So if you want to check that out, because we have so much good stuff. The only way to do that is to get our app. It's free. It's for all iOS devices. Go to the iTunes App Store. Just, just type in Rich Roll in the search window and you'll be able to find it there. Download it. And you can access all 114 episodes of the show that way, completely free.

• 1:37:23Rich Roll?

  Continue to support the show. Keep telling your friends. Keep using the Amazon banner ad. And keep Instagramming, right?

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  All of that.

• 1:37:32Rich Roll?

  Cool, all those things. So, all right, this week's assignment. I think that, Julie, you can help me with this. But I think a great assignment to close this one down would be to have people, first of all, believe that you can have a different holiday experience, that you can have a better holiday experience than maybe, if you're somebody who's traditionally had subpar holiday experiences.

• 1:37:54Speaker 01

  If you're sad, if you're sad around the holidays.

• 1:37:56Rich Roll?

  I mean, look, it's common to get depressed and sad around the holidays and then people feel ashamed that they feel that way. Because everybody, it's supposed to be so joyous and there's always pressure on you to have this extraordinary experience. And then you feel lousy because you're not having that experience. I think that, you know, it's, it begins and ends with, first of all, believing that, that, that you're entitled to have the experience that you're having. And you also have the power to change what that experience is. Right?

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  You do.

• 1:38:23Rich Roll?

  And, and so it's about approaching these holidays a little bit differently by doing exactly what Julie talked about, which is not allowing yourself to get overextended and focusing on the self-care. Take care of yourself first as a prerequisite to taking care of others, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. And if you do that every day before you enter into the fray where you're getting pulled into a million different directions, I think that you have a good shot of coming out the other side, not just intact, but maybe inspired, maybe renewed. And you don't have to be exhausted on New Year's Day and glad that it's all over.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  Absolutely. That's great. You think about that? Yeah, that's great. Alright, cool. We're done. We're done. Alright. Alright, you guys. Happy holidays. Peace. Namaste.

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  Be loved.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  Be you.

• 1:39:23Speaker 02

  Be love.

• 1:39:27Speaker 02

  Be true.

• 1:39:31Speaker 02

  I'm yours.

• 1:39:35Speaker 02

  You'll see.

• 1:39:39Speaker 02

  Be loved.

• 1:39:43Speaker 02

  Be free.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  Buzzing through the fields, I feel the trees reminding me of you.

• 1:40:05Speaker 02

  Hummingbird, butterfly. There's just so much that we can be

• 1:40:17Speaker 02

  together.

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  Be loved. Be you.

• 1:40:32Speaker 02

  Be love.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  Be true.

• 1:40:41Speaker 02

  I'm yours.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  You're mine.

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  Be loved.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  Divine.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  Buzzing through the fields, I feel the trees reminding me of you.

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  Hummingbird, butterfly There's just so much that we can be

• 1:41:26Speaker 02

  Together

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Be love

• 1:41:38Speaker 02

  Be true

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  Be love

• 1:41:46Speaker 02

  Be you

• 1:41:50Speaker 02

  I'm yours You're mine

• 1:41:59Speaker 02

  Be love

• 1:42:03Speaker 02

  Divine

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  Divine

• 1:42:11Speaker 02

  Divine