The Economics of Reality Television ft. Survivor Winner Savannah Louie

Haley is joined by Survivor season 49 winner Savannah Louie to discuss what happens behind the scenes, how much of the million dollar prize winners actually see, getting the villain edit, negotiating money in relationships, off color Cameo requests, and so much more! Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones is a Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us at @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Haley Sacks?

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• 0:43Haley Sacks?

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• 0:59Speaker 01

  The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight, so I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there. And Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases,

• 1:44Speaker 01

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• 2:16Speaker 01

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• 2:28Haley Sacks?

  So you have taxed dollars, cash in your bank account. How fast do you think you could have blown through that if like you weren't careful?

• 2:37Speaker 02

  I've already spent it.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  No, I'm just playing.

• 2:43Speaker 03

  This is Financial Tea.

• 2:48Haley Sacks?

  Okay, sippers, welcome back to Financial Tea, the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. Today, we have Survivor's Season 49 winner with us here, our first reality star.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 3:08Haley Sacks?

  Well, actually, we had Olivia Atwood, but she's British.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll give you all the US tea.

• 3:12Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm so excited for you to be here to spill all of the financial secrets.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Girl, thank you for having me. I've been a fan of you since I discovered you during the pandemic. So I'm a real one. I know, right? We were all going through it.

• 3:28Haley Sacks?

  We really were.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  You helped me get me through it, like mentally and financially. So, yeah, we love it.

• 3:32Haley Sacks?

  That's so nice. But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report.

• 3:37Haley Sacks?

  Okay, guys, welcome back to the MDJ Market Report. I got the four stories you need to know to understand where the money's moving this week. First things first, I know that everyone is upset that Big Tech has taken over the Met Gala and Lauren and Jeff bought the big event for $10 million. But like, guys, why are we surprised? They already took over the freaking S and P 500. Okay, let me break it down. So Big Tech released their earnings last week and they had one of their best quarters in years. And subsequently, the stock market hit near record highs. But meanwhile, consumer confidence just hit its lowest level since 1978.

• 4:19Haley Sacks?

  So like worse than the 2008 crash, worse than COVID. So like, how can this be true? How can it be so? Hard for like people to, you know, be able to afford groceries, their wages aren't rate, aren't going up, but like the stock market is doing so well. And it's because the S and P 500, which is a weighted index of the top 500 companies in America is being driven completely by the magnificent seven tech stocks. So that's Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, Meta, Microsoft, Nvidia and Tesla. So like the mag seven now make up 33.7% of the entire index,

• 4:56Haley Sacks?

  which is up from just 12.5% in 2016. And in 2025, 42% of the market's total return came from those seven companies. So like when Alphabet, Meta, Amazon and Microsoft go up, the whole market looks healthy, even if groceries are high and people have stagnant wages. The risk is that if the tech stocks keep winning, the market looks great. But like if they slow down, the illusion will break. Jeff and Lauren aren't just walking the red carpet, you guys. They're also running the stock market too. It's their world. We're just living in it. I'm waiting for my yacht invite this summer. JK would never say yes, because obviously I am in protest of them, just like Zendaya not going to the Met Gala. Okay, now let's talk about Friends, a more fun story,

• 5:41Haley Sacks?

  because Lisa Kudrow, very out of pocket, was in an interview this week and said that the members of the Friends cast each make $20 million a year off of the show and residuals, which honestly is just proof that negotiation is the highest paying skill that you will ever earn and becomes so much more powerful when you bargain collectively. I'm going to talk about how you can do this in your life. But first, let's just talk about how they did it with Friends, because it's crazy. And by the way, I covered this so in depthly in Future Rich Person. You've got like one more week to get the preorder bonuses. So make sure that you preorder the book at mrsdowjones.com. But basically, when Friends launched, the cast wasn't paid equally. Jennifer Aniston and David Schwimmer were considered the leads and

• 6:24Haley Sacks?

  made more. Will they? Won't they? They were on a break. You know, they're getting the big bucks for that. But then by season three, the gap became a problem. So the cast, instead of like getting mad at each other and like made a decision that they were just going to negotiate everything as a unit or not at all. So like if you wanted the show to keep going and it was a hit show, you had to play by the rules of everyone on the cast together. There were no side deals, no one getting picked off. And that collective leverage is what got all six of them to a million dollars per episode by the final seasons, which was the highest TV salaries ever at the time. And what's even crazier is they negotiated backend participation, meaning they got a percentage

• 7:07Haley Sacks?

  of syndication revenue. And Friends generates about $1 billion a year, which is insane. Each cast member gets 2% of that, which is $20 million a year, 22 years after the show ended. And I just want to be clear, like for context, Sex and the City, they didn't negotiate as a group and they don't get this money. Lauren Graham did seven seasons of Gilmore Girls and said she gets basically no residuals from streaming. These are the same jobs with completely different outcomes. And the lesson is, is that you will never be able to outwork a good deal. And like one negotiation really can pay you for decades. And most importantly, leverage, especially collective leverage, is where the real money is. So I always think about this in terms of like fertility benefits at work. Like if that's something you really want from your

• 7:52Haley Sacks?

  company, find other people in the company that really want that too, and go together to HR. Because when you work as a group to ask for something, it gives you a lot more power. Okay, our third story, we're gonna pour one out for Spirit Airlines. They did just shut down. And while people do love to hate Spirit, I flew them to Las Vegas to see Taylor Swift. It was fine. Its existence really did keep flights cheap for everyone. And economists call this the Spirit Effect. Because like when Spirit flies a route, airlines like Delta and United and American are sort of forced to compete with those $40 fares. And so when Spirit leaves, prices can jump like 20% or more. So like even if you never flew Spirit, like me, obviously, budget diva. You benefited from it.

• 8:38Haley Sacks?

  And so now that that pressure is gone, higher ticket prices are going to happen. We're going to have fewer ultra budget options. And of course, 17,000 people are out of work. But the bigger issue here is like, it's not even really about the airlines. It's more about just like competition disappearing, which I feel like we've been seeing so much. So when low cost players die, prices don't just stay low out of kindness. Like they rise because they can. The lesson is really that competition is what keeps your cost of living in check. And when it disappears, you are going to feel it, even if you don't realize why. Okay. And for our final story, we need to talk about this chart. Yeah, we're going to talk about a chart, guys. It's going viral. It's from Goldman Sachs and it's basically about rich people who rich wrong.

• 9:18Haley Sacks?

  Because it turns out that higher earners are actually the most broke. According to Goldman Sachs, nearly 40% of Americans making over $300,000 say that they live paycheck to paycheck. So that is higher than people making 50K to 100K. So yes, I am saying that someone making $400,000 is more likely to feel broke than someone making $75,000. And you might be like, Haley, why? Well, it's because above $300,000, lifestyle creep sort of just becomes structural. You start to like, get the private school tuition going.

• 9:58Haley Sacks?

  You got the mortgage, you got the childcare, the car leases, the second home, the vacations. Like, these aren't even splurges anymore. They sort of just become fixed costs. Goldman calls it luxuries becoming necessities. And once that happens, your income goes up, but your savings rate sort of just like disappears. So the real lesson is wealth is not about how much you make, it's about how much you keep. So if your salary increases, increase your savings rate and your investment rate right away. Automate that. Because otherwise you will fall into this trap too. And if your lifestyle rises as fast as your income, I promise you that you will always feel broke at every level. So it's so important that you do this.

• 10:45Haley Sacks?

  Well, I have so many questions for you, but we always start the show just by asking these three icebreakers. So the first one, what are your best and worst purchases of the week?

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, of the week? Honestly, my best purchase of the week, probably the dinner I had last night. When you have dinner with good company, like that, that's everything. So I, we went to an omakase spot here in New York.

• 11:08Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Anything sushi, I'm always all about it. So you know, you get the sustenance and you know, being on Survivor, I'm like, any excuse to buy more food, like, let's bring it on, right? Especially the good food. Worst purchase of the week, probably anything I'm buying in the airport. You know, that shit is marked up. I usually try to like, get all my snacks before I go and everything, but I think that, I don't know, I just kind of forgot this time. And it's really more the principle for me, you know?

• 11:38Haley Sacks?

  I used to be obsessed with buying magazines at the airport, which I literally think was my worst financial habit.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:43Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  They'll get you. And there's something about going in the airport where I kind of start to think like, oh, like, it's a free pass. Like, I'll get all the candy, I'll get all the snacks, I'll get all the, everything. But no, you can't slip into that.

• 11:54Haley Sacks?

  And then you become the person at 8A I who's drinking.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yes.

• 11:57Haley Sacks?

  You're like, what happened?

• 11:58Speaker 02

  We've all been there, the lounge.

• 11:59Haley Sacks?

  We have, we have, we have, we have. Okay, what gives you the financial ick?

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Oh. Oh, my God. Honestly, probably when people complain about circumstances that they get themselves into. I don't know, dude, I have some friends in real life, we're gonna keep the names out of it, of course. But it's kind of things where you can't complain that you don't have enough money for the bills when you're spending money on stupid shit, right? It goes back to this airport example, right? Even if it's saving like three to $5, like at a time, like, I'm a believer, like, that shit adds up. And that kind of mindset is gonna seep into any other area that you have, whether it's the airport, whether it's going to the grocery store, whether it's going to the mall and then letting

• 12:46Speaker 02

  yourself slip. So people who are in that kind of vibe, I'm like, we gotta get it together.

• 12:50Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, like the person like borrowing, taking the money out of their 401k to pay up their credit card bill, but they have a Porsche?

• 12:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:56Haley Sacks?

  It's like, babe.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  You know what's wild? Because I'm in Atlanta now, you see a lot of that in Atlanta.

• 13:01Haley Sacks?

  Oh, really?

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, you see a lot of people who almost like, put up a front. I've lived across the country, I used to work as a journalist, and so you move around a lot for that job. And in Atlanta, in particular, you have so many people or restaurants or I don't know, just, just anything really that puts up a front at times for being into the aesthetic.

• 13:21Haley Sacks?

  Wow.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  They'll have the nicest clothes, they'll have the nicest watch, but they'll be broke. And I'm like, you guys, like, what are we doing?

• 13:27Haley Sacks?

  This whole idea of faking rich is really just like taken over the culture.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  It's wild and it's frustrating to watch, but you know?

• 13:35Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. What? Well, okay. So do you feel rich today?

• 13:39Speaker 02

  I do. I do. Yeah. And that's not because I have like, you know, millions of dollars in my bank account, but I think a big part of feeling rich is not having worries, right? They say money can't buy happiness and that is so true, but it can relieve a lot of anxieties.

• 13:55Haley Sacks?

  Yes, I agree with that. It can buy therapy.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:58Haley Sacks?

  It can buy you time off from work if you're really stressed. Like it can really support your mental health. It can support your actual health. It can take away troubles like, you know, family is having issues. You know, can't buy happiness, I feel like is not true.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  No, a hundred percent.

• 14:13Haley Sacks?

  You know?

• 14:14Speaker 02

  My cup feels so full. Like, I mean, I'm, I'm leaving New York today, but I'm going to go back and, and see my partner and be with people who I love and just, you know, I feel like I have a lot to be grateful for. So like in the scheme of life, I feel, I feel very rich in the scheme of life.

• 14:27Haley Sacks?

  That's so nice.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. It's very wholesome.

• 14:29Haley Sacks?

  No, I like feel it from you. You have a bright light.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Thank you. And it's not just the lighting in the studio.

• 14:35Haley Sacks?

  No, that's good energy too. No, both, both, both. Um, okay. So Survivor, obviously cult fandom, people are so obsessed. Everyone that I know who watches Survivor could not believe that you're coming. Like you are really a fan favorite. They love you. Um, and they're like, she's so pretty. She's so good. They love it. So I think people are very curious about the financial details of reality television. And obviously you're on Survivor, you won. It's a $1 million cash prize, which is a lot of money. How much of that are you actually getting after taxes?

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Oh my God, girl, it is painful.

• 15:08Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  It's actually devastating. So I have already paid my taxes, uh, obviously, um, from the past year. And I think I paid about. Of that million dollars, um, three eighty.

• 15:21Haley Sacks?

  Oh, gosh.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Girl, it was like a punch to the gut. Like, I, cause that's more money than I, I have ever made in a year. By far. Um, especially when I was working as a journalist, like my first couple of jobs out of college, I was like at thirty K a year, you know? And so to sign a check over essentially for that, that high, it was, it was unreal. It hurts.

• 15:46Haley Sacks?

  It's so funny too, because with like big liquidity events, uh, people are supposed to plan in advance with their tax strategy. Like, say you're a founder who's gonna sell their company, they would, like, a good accountant would tell you, like, okay, you need to, like, prepare for this. Like, maybe you move to a, a low or no income.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 16:04Haley Sacks?

  Tax state, you're, you know, putting all of these ducks in a row, so that if you do have that big payout, you're not getting hit with that big tax bill. But if you go on reality television, how can you plan to win a million dollars? Like, it's so, you probably didn't think you were gonna win Survivor.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Well, I will say, I, I went in feeling very confident. Yes, but at the same time, like, I wasn't necessarily in the mindset where I'm like, oh, like, I gotta financially plan for that money. Like, I was so confident, but at the same time, I was so focused on just getting out there and kicking butt. I wasn't thinking about the, the second part of the year at all. Um, and it is interesting because depending on what state you're in. Or even what country you're in, because for Survivor, um, they accept Canadians. For US survivors, so you can be from the US or you can be from, from Canada. Canadians get to keep all that money. They don't have to pay taxes to the US, right? I know, it's so, and there actually was a winner, um, who was from Canada a few years ago.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  And so the money that's in her pocket is a little different from the money in mine. At the same time, living in Atlanta, like, I'm very grateful that I'm there and not like, I don't know, probably California or something.

• 17:14Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, oh yeah, a hundred percent. Um, and is it one giant check?

• 17:18Speaker 02

  Girl, this is actually, it's, it's sickening. So, we played the game in summer. And you play the game, you can get like a very small advance. Of maybe like $10,000. But other than that, they're keeping that money.

• 17:33Haley Sacks?

  What?

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Because with Survivor, or maybe other reality shows, I'm not sure. But there is, there are NDAs in place.

• 17:41Haley Sacks?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  So I know who the winner is. Our cast knows who the winner is, but they, production don't, doesn't want that to get out. And so they have that, that, that check at the end of the day that's kind of looming. We have to wait until the finale airs, though, before we get that payout. And so for me, our finale aired in December.

• 18:00Haley Sacks?

  No.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was, I was waiting a long time, uh, very patiently. Uh, but literally like less than 24 hours after the finale aired, I see that, that $1 million straight deposited into my bank account.

• 18:14Haley Sacks?

  Oh my.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  It's the weirdest feeling. And that whole day I was checking, I would check every like 20 minutes. Like, okay, is it there yet? Is it there yet? Is it there yet? Um, just so eager to see, you know, what my, my hard work paying off.

• 18:27Haley Sacks?

  Yes, well, it does sound like it was actual work, though. Like you went and you weren't just like, I'm going on Survivor. You were like, no, no bitch, I'm like going here to win. So how do you lock in for that season?

• 18:39Speaker 02

  You know, it's so funny. One of the very first quotes that Survivor production showed of me before the season even started. This was in the promos, but it's a clip of me laughing and saying, this is gonna be the easiest million I will ever make. And, you know, when I said that, I was kind of joking, like kind of leaning into it. But also seriously, like, my previous job, I wasn't really getting a lot of money. I thought, you know, a million dollars in a month's work, essentially. That sounds pretty good to me. I can be starving for that amount of time. I can, you know, put up with other people's BS or lie to people and strategize and sleep on the dirt. For, you know, I've done crazier things for, for smaller amounts of money, I'm sure.

• 19:23Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Um, but. You know, once you're out there, you really realize that any preparation that you've done, like, it can't just be preparation from the past few months, right? It's almost like my entire life, I feel like, prepared me to go out there. And that extends to my work as a journalist, you know, which builds this mindset, this tenacity in you for when you're determined to get the story. And, you know, I'm not even kidding, 40 people say, no, I don't want to interview with you. I have no interest in doing this. Like, how are you gonna make that work at the end of the day by the deadline, right? It builds this mindset of, you know, when you're up against the wall, how do I get through that wall? How do I get over that hump? And that's what really carried me through the game.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  But other than that, like, the months before I went out there, girl, I was training like a crazy person. I was doing a mix of hot yoga, I would do boot camps. I did a lot of Pilates or Lagree classes, which is so good for your core strength. I would do sprinting outside. I would try to talk to anyone and everyone ever because with Survivor, it's such a social game. And you're out there with people.

• 20:31Haley Sacks?

  That's so interesting.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, I would be in random places, like the grocery store, or maybe my apartment complex, and I would see someone who I've never met before. And I would just try to engage with them and try to...

• 20:42Haley Sacks?

  To lie to them.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. Well, actually, this is wild. This was a couple of weeks before I left for the show, and I got pulled over by a cop. And I was like, oh my God, this is terrible. I was like, this is a perfect time to practice my lying skills. I know, and so I feel so bad about this now. But the cop pulled me over, and he was like, hey, you know, you made like an illegal turn. And I just, I start like crying, and I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, this is bad, I'm gonna get bad karma for this, but I was like, I have to pick up my mom from the airport, like, someone in our family just passed away. My mom's... I know, I know. Girl, well, long story, sure.

• 21:19Haley Sacks?

  We'll definitely rob it out of the hat.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  And I didn't get a ticket. I had to practice that lying, I know, and I feel so bad. I know, so if that police officer's listening...

• 21:27Haley Sacks?

  It was your 10,000 hours.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  Right, literally, all condensed into the...

• 21:31Haley Sacks?

  Into one. I love that. And, okay, so you have that money in your bank account. You have around, like... Sounds like six hundred and like forty thousand dollars or around, how much is it? Three hundred eighty after taxes?

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, no, before.

• 21:44Haley Sacks?

  So after taxes?

• 21:45Speaker 02

  I gave three eighty to taxes.

• 21:47Haley Sacks?

  Oh, okay, so it's like six, six hundred and twenty. Okay, so you had, so you had six hundred and twenty thousand taxed dollars cash in your bank account. How fast do you think you could have blown through that if like you weren't careful?

• 21:59Speaker 02

  I've already spent it.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  No, I'm just playing. Did you believe me?

• 22:04Haley Sacks?

  You're such a good liar.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Oh, good, good.

• 22:06Haley Sacks?

  Oh, my God, I was like, Sam, this is financial tea.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  I know, you were like, get, oh, you gotta get these girls off the pod.

• 22:11Haley Sacks?

  I was upset, but I was also like, okay, but juicy, like, we're gonna be so viral.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  I know, oh, my God, I, girl, honestly, I love to travel.

• 22:19Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  And there's such a big part of me where I'm like, I wanna freaking pack my bags, get on the plane, the first class, Delta One, and just go everywhere.

• 22:28Haley Sacks?

  Uh huh.

• 22:29Speaker 02

  Um, the feeling is kind of like when you go to college, right? And you get that new sense of freedom. I grew up in a really religious home, so when I went to college, I had that new sense of freedom and I went kinda crazy. Okay? Yeah, and so I feel like I almost have that same sense of whoa, like, I could go crazy.

• 22:46Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Um, and I see it kind of seeping into my everyday life in some senses. Like, I used to never, ever go really out to eat, like, I would make all my, all my own meals to save money. Um, now I'm like, you know, fucking DoorDash, like, it's more expensive, but like, okay, I'll do it, you know? Um, and so it's like little things like that that have kind of started to creep up. I feel like I could have gone through the money really fast, but I, I was good and I invested most of it.

• 23:13Haley Sacks?

  Oh, well, we definitely wanna know about that. What did you invest in?

• 23:16Speaker 02

  So I pretty much just gave it all to my financial advisor.

• 23:19Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, and this is someone who my parents have used, um, someone who I trust deeply. Um, he's managed my money for probably about five years and everything, so it's just, yeah.

• 23:30Haley Sacks?

  Do you know what his fee structure is?

• 23:32Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, I think it's... And maybe cut this out because I could be wrong. Um, but I think it's like one per one to two percent. Does that sound right?

• 23:41Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, it sounds right. I think that honestly, like financial advisors, though, I are unless you have really complicated finances can be a little bit overrated because you end up spending so much money just to have someone do things that are really basic. Like, I'm sure if we looked at what they're actually doing, it's like there's putting them in low cost index funds.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's part of it. I think there are individual stocks as well that he's, yeah.

• 24:06Haley Sacks?

  He's got his ear to the ground.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:09Haley Sacks?

  He's got those good tips.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  So my first couple of years, well, in I think in my in like two or three years with him, he had like essentially almost doubled my money. Yeah, so he's, he's legit.

• 24:18Haley Sacks?

  He's doing a good job.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Yes, Bob, thank you. We love Bob.

• 24:22Haley Sacks?

  You did the hard work of winning Survivor and now he's doing the hard work of making sure that you stay rich.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 24:28Haley Sacks?

  Okay, Bob, shout out to Bob.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:30Haley Sacks?

  In the first 30 days, so immediately you're just giving him the money or like what'd you do with the money? Like, did you buy? Did you splurge on anything?

• 24:36Speaker 02

  I had to.

• 24:37Haley Sacks?

  You had to, of course.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Obviously.

• 24:38Haley Sacks?

  And I always tell people to do that, too. Like, if you got a bonus at work or something, like, take 10 or 20% and have fun.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:44Haley Sacks?

  Then be serious with the rest. But like, financial anorexia never works.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. And so it's interesting because I always kind of grew up with a warped anxiety about money. Um, my parents were on welfare when they had. I was unexpected, surprise baby. And so we grew up being very, very frugal. So having this money and especially having this money so quickly was like, you know, it's like, damn, like, what the fuck? Like, that's wild. Um, and so, yeah, per my, per Bob's advice, essentially, I, I, um, invested most of it. But I kept around like 40K that I kind of want to play with. And so we, the first thing we did was we went on a trip to Thailand. A two week trip.

• 25:25Haley Sacks?

  So fun.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you can make the money stretch there.

• 25:27Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I heard. It's like amazing.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so we, we stayed at some really nice spots. We ate like all the good food. We had like so many massages. Um, saw the elephants. Yes. And for me, Thailand has kind of been like a dream trip. So being able to go and not only that, but go with my partner, who has been through this wild ass ride with me, like, it was just, it was the best. It was the best, you know? I will say, I'm also some, like, I love material stuff.

• 25:53Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  And Survivor, they don't give you a trophy. They just give you the money and they give you the title. And so I was like, you know, I want to buy my own little trophy. So my trophy is actually this watch.

• 26:03Haley Sacks?

  Oh, let's see.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:05Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  You have like the magic, yes, I know.

• 26:08Haley Sacks?

  Let's see, but yours is small.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 26:09Haley Sacks?

  This is a small panther silver.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a two-tone.

• 26:13Haley Sacks?

  Oh, two-tone, it's so pretty.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 26:15Haley Sacks?

  Did you buy that full price? So you walked into Cartier?

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did.

• 26:19Haley Sacks?

  Damn girl.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  And so, the cool thing about this, though, is...

• 26:23Haley Sacks?

  How much was that?

• 26:23Speaker 02

  It was, I think it was about ten.

• 26:25Haley Sacks?

  Okay, wow.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  But the way that I look at it too, is I, like, the first few times I would put it on, I would feel like, oh my gosh, like, this is so special. I can't believe I bought this watch that I've been wanting for a very long time, and I bought it for myself. And I realized, I'm like, you know, I really need to be more intentional when I put this thing on. And so what I do every morning is when I put on my watch, I think about what it means. I'm not gonna get a little emotional talking about it, but like, I think about what it means, I think about the hard work that it took to earn this. Um, I think about the tenacity that I had to show and that I had to demonstrate in order to get this, this material trophy, right? But that's how I start my day, every day, now that I put this shit on.

• 27:05Haley Sacks?

  That's so, so intentional.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  It is, and I, I mean, I feel like if we, when we make big purchases like that, I mean, don't get me wrong, like, I have some nice clothes, but I don't really think about maybe the shirt that I'm wearing or the bag that I'm carrying in the, in the same way that I think about this watch.

• 27:20Haley Sacks?

  That's so cool. I also feel like so many purchases lose their luster.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:25Haley Sacks?

  Like, most things do. That's why I always say, like, with impulse shopping, if you're struggling with impulse shopping, wait three days before you pay.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:31Haley Sacks?

  So you just leave it in your cart, you won't, like, you're gonna forget about it. But when it comes to something that you really, really want, like, it's okay to really want something and to save up for it and to make it happen. And I had the same experience with my watch.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Really?

• 27:45Haley Sacks?

  Although, yeah, so I got it when I signed my book deal for Future Rich Person, yes, and I was like, okay, this is gonna be probably, it's a... Culmination of so much work, it's gonna be so much work and I really wanna mark this occasion and get myself something and I'm gonna do that when I put it on, like really think about everything. But I will say that I've, it has not lost its luster.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  When did you get yours?

• 28:07Haley Sacks?

  I got mine about, I would say 18 months ago, but I didn't buy it firsthand.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 28:13Haley Sacks?

  So with watches similar to like cars or boats, the most they ever have in value is the, when they're brand new. And so they depreciate and so most of them do at least, cause like there's a lot of these on the market. Like, you know, we're sort of basic bitches with our Cartier watches, girl, I hate to say it.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Hey, there's something about basic though, like basic for a reason, it's a classic.

• 28:33Haley Sacks?

  It totally does. And I do understand the allure of like having the day of going to Cartier, like that's so chic.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:40Haley Sacks?

  Meanwhile, I'm like with a woman named Donna in Chinatown who I like trust with my life and she's like, I got a guy on the phone and his name is Oscar, but you can't tell anyone that.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Well, my concern would be like that I would get something fake.

• 28:50Haley Sacks?

  Oh no, she's, I have the paper, it's, it's under, so I would never have bought it if it wasn't under warranty.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:55Haley Sacks?

  So there's basically like a guy who worked at Cartier who got it for a discount and then he resold it to Donna and then Donna got it for me and so then I was able to get it for a little bit less, but it was still expensive.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say the gold ones are like crazy.

• 29:06Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, especially now the price of gold, I got it before it peaked.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, okay girl, yes.

• 29:11Haley Sacks?

  I will say, I love that and I do think that like jewelry especially has like a memento of moments. It really does hit. Yeah, so I'm with you on that. Okay, so you're talking a lot about your partner. Did it affect your relationship with them at all that you had this windfall? Like, is there the expectation that like you're gonna pay for more things? Do they feel like you, they are entitled to some of your winnings? How do you guys split finances?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I love that you asked this question because honestly, that was one of my, I don't wanna say fears, but it was on my mind when I was coming back from Fiji and I'm like, alright, I'm about to get this big payout. And just for context, we've been dating for about two years. So when I went through all the Survivor stuff, that had been just about one year that we had been together.

• 29:54Haley Sacks?

  That's fresh.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Very fresh and especially when it comes to finances because you know, that first year, you're soaking in the relationship, you're not necessarily having a lot of those tough financial decisions. Or conversations, I should say. And so actually, when I was away filming Survivor, we ended up moving in together. So he picked out a place for us.

• 30:12Haley Sacks?

  Wow.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  He paid most of the rent. And he's, we're moving again to a place that's a little cheaper. So he's gonna pay all the rent now. It's honestly really nice.

• 30:23Haley Sacks?

  You have a sugar daddy, is sort of what I'm hearing.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Essentially. And I was, girl, I was so worried, not worried, but I was very mindful that with this income that I was gonna have to pay a little bit more.

• 30:34Haley Sacks?

  And he was gonna ask you to contribute.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Well, yes.

• 30:37Haley Sacks?

  He knew that you had a million dollars. You're like, no, I still wanna be your sugar baby.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 30:42Haley Sacks?

  Even though I'm rich now, let's pretend that I still am not.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  It was just a good year. Not permanent.

• 30:47Haley Sacks?

  It's also hard too, cuz it's like the winnings are everywhere. Like, you can't deny it, you know?

• 30:52Speaker 02

  So I think a big part of it, though, is...

• 30:55Haley Sacks?

  That's really funny.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  It is, but like, I think it's just built into him that he wants to be a provider.

• 31:00Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 31:02Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, which we support.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  That to me is so sexy, yes. Cuz like, there are absolutely men out there that would and do expect women to go half and half. And like, that's cool for them. That's not me.

• 31:11Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  That's not how I wanna be living my life. And I'm so grateful to my partner for always like being like, I wanna take care of you as much as I can. Like, girl, like, you know, do your thing. I think a big part of it is also regional. Like, when I lived in California, like, there maybe is more of an expectation that men and women split things more equally.

• 31:30Haley Sacks?

  Like, the more liberal places where women are seen more as equals, there is that expectation.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Literally.

• 31:37Haley Sacks?

  When you go to the South, they still got those antiquated values, and we are milking them.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Exactly. And don't get me wrong, the South, like, we have our own set of issues as well.

• 31:46Haley Sacks?

  Of course.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  But at the end of the day...

• 31:49Haley Sacks?

  There are perks.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 31:51Haley Sacks?

  I'm all about women staying rich at the end of the day. Like, I'm a feminist, but I'm also like, you know, his money, our money, my money, my money.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And so, I mean, like, I'll also offer, like, we're going on vacation soon, and I'm like, babe, like, let me get the hotel, please.

• 32:05Haley Sacks?

  So nice.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's the kind of thing where like, he wants me to be successful with my finances, but I also want to help as much as I can. And like, you know, almost give him a thank you for just being such an incredible man and partner and supporter, you know?

• 32:18Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 32:22Speaker 04

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• 33:16Haley Sacks?

  Did you like get him anything like to sell? You got yourself a watch? You're like, no watch for you?

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Oh, no comment.

• 33:23Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, no comment, no comment.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  We're working on it.

• 33:27Haley Sacks?

  With, was there anyone else in your life, though, where money did affect the relationship?

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Let me say this. I will buy him shit, like, because I don't want it to sound like I'm just hoarding on to all my... Well, because like I bought him like some clothes the other day. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, babe, this would look so good on you. And I know like he's not going to spend money on himself in that way. I'm like, babe, like, I want you to look hot. Like, let me get you these shirts, you know?

• 33:47Haley Sacks?

  So sort of a purchase for you, though?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's some mutual benefits, right?

• 33:51Haley Sacks?

  I will say, like, women do love, like, I love to buy, whenever I've dated anyone, I buy them clothes.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:57Haley Sacks?

  Because...

• 33:59Haley Sacks?

  And it is sort of just like a gift for yourself?

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:01Haley Sacks?

  Because you're like, ooh, like, now like my boyfriend is wearing this outfit that I really like.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  We're both going to be looking good. I get the hot boyfriend, yes.

• 34:10Haley Sacks?

  Okay, that's so, so there was never even the question of like, okay, you're gonna be contributing more?

• 34:16Speaker 02

  No, like, he never even asked.

• 34:19Haley Sacks?

  You would have, it sounds like you would have gotten the ick too if he had asked, because...

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Probably, yeah, just because like...

• 34:24Haley Sacks?

  It's like a financial value of yours that you are taking care of, which is okay. Like, everyone has their, and maybe also it comes from childhood. Like, with all the welfare stuff, like, you want to feel safe and supported.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's, to me, like, it's such a sexy thing when a man wants to say, like... Let me take care of you. Like, let me be that provider. And I don't know, you just feel so manly when he does that stuff. Like, I like, I like it. It turns me on.

• 34:48Haley Sacks?

  But I think that also you're coming at it from a perspective of having your own money on the side.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:53Haley Sacks?

  So it's like, if you're in the position where the man is taking care of you, but you have nothing else, then it makes the relationship really imbalanced because you're sort of stuck.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:02Haley Sacks?

  But with you, I mean, you have made lots of money. You have lots of money compounding in the market. If you wanted to leave, if you did any kind of fuckery, you could get out.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:10Haley Sacks?

  But so it's just sort of like a bonus that helps keep the spice alive, it sounds like.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Right, exactly. And I mean, like, I know women who are in positions like that, where they don't necessarily have their own income and they are kind of trapped in, in relationships or situationships where they literally cannot leave. It's impossible because of their finances. And like, my partner, like, I plan on being with him for life, like, you know.

• 35:34Haley Sacks?

  Love that.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  That's not too big of a concern, but for now, you know, it's working out okay.

• 35:38Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, great. And you, and you have that safety net.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 35:40Haley Sacks?

  You always gotta have that, that getaway car.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:45Haley Sacks?

  Okay, so now that you have one survivor, this is obviously, you were saying that you spoke on a panel yesterday. Like, what other revenue streams has this opened? If you play it right.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  Yes. So here's the thing. I feel like I didn't play it as right as I should have. I know I'm having regret because during my season, I was kind of active on social media, but nowhere near the more, the, the level of activity I'm, I am right now, if that makes sense.

• 36:12Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  So I wish I would have leaned more into, let me make content.

• 36:18Haley Sacks?

  When there was the buzz.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Content about the show, yes. And I, I still am seeing like, you know, attention and engagement online. I think people are really curious about all the behind the scenes stuff of Survivor. As someone who was a fan before I was a player, like, I love sharing that tea. But I am, I do wish I would have leaned into more of that content creation side. So other than the, the full million dollar winnings and everything, I'm on Cameo. So I've made like, In comparison to the million dollars, it's a small fraction, but probably close to like $20,000 off cameo.

• 36:48Haley Sacks?

  That's awesome.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's wild because yeah, and I like doing the videos for people. It's sweet, but people will pay like, you know, like 70 to 100 bucks for a quick video from for me for their, I don't know, mom's birthday or something, which is wild.

• 37:03Haley Sacks?

  Have you ever gotten like a really weird request?

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:05Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  Girl, I had like, can I share?

• 37:08Haley Sacks?

  Yes, I'm dying for you to share.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Even if it's inappropriate?

• 37:11Haley Sacks?

  The more inappropriate, the better. I have like really perby listeners.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  So I posted a selfie on Instagram and I'm wearing like a little dress, but like you, you can kind of see through the dress a little bit.

• 37:22Haley Sacks?

  You knew what you were doing. You said, you know, I didn't post enough during the show, so this is.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  We gotta make up for it.

• 37:29Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  No, so I posted this like little selfie, you know, whatever. And so I got a cameo request and it was from someone on Instagram who like, I guess had seen the picture and they start asking me about like my, my body and they were asking like, like, is your nipple pierced and like all this stuff? Um, and it was very invasive, but I made the cameo.

• 37:57Haley Sacks?

  At the end of the day.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, because you know, here's the thing, like I, I didn't say anything in, in the cameo that like I wouldn't mind the public seeing.

• 38:03Haley Sacks?

  What did he ask you to say?

• 38:05Speaker 02

  Ah, girl, I can't remember like, cause he had a bunch of different questions.

• 38:10Haley Sacks?

  So he was the cameo like my nipples pierced or was it like?

• 38:13Speaker 02

  I don't know. It was like.

• 38:14Haley Sacks?

  I'm your little girl. Like, what was the vibe? I don't know.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  You made that one up.

• 38:19Haley Sacks?

  Like, what did he want you to say?

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Oh my God. So part of his request was, I'm gonna have a birthday. Would you come to my party? Um, and then he said also if the cameo was maybe like 80 bucks, he was like, I'll give you a bigger tip if you do this cameo in a bikini or like, you know?

• 38:37Haley Sacks?

  Cool.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, which I didn't do. I wore like a hoodie as much.

• 38:41Haley Sacks?

  Oh, okay. So silent protest.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  Looking like a bum. Yeah, exactly. But I kind of like mentioned that in the video. I'm like, you know, like I, I don't think I'm gonna do that. Sorry. You know, like it's just having fun with it. Um. And then, you know, just also just being a little cagey.

• 38:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, men love a little mystery.

• 38:56Speaker 02

  They do.

• 38:56Haley Sacks?

  They do. When it's zipped all the way up, they want to know what's underneath.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  I know, I know. But yeah, some people are crazy.

• 39:04Haley Sacks?

  And you definitely could take it that way. Like, a lot of reality stars then take it more to like the OnlyFans route.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and no shade to that.

• 39:11Haley Sacks?

  Oh, my God, there's so much, oh, my God, there's so much money in that, you know, and it comes with consequences, of course, but I also think that like, it's given a whole generation of women so much economic security that if you can mentally handle doing it, it's something that like can be pretty powerful.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Yes, 100%, but I don't think that's me.

• 39:31Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, I think you sort of know.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  At least not right now, yeah.

• 39:33Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you won the show. Talk us through your decision to go back on after winning. Like, you weren't just like, wow, I just did one of the hardest things I've ever done and won it all. Like, maybe I should quit while I'm ahead?

• 39:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I absolutely thought like that. I'm a big believer in if something scares you in life, it might be a sign that you should go for it. And like, don't get me wrong, like, there's a lot of power of, of listening to your gut. And if something feels unsafe, like, you know, in that kind of way, like, don't pursue that. But my reason for being scared to go back for 50 was, oh, my God, what if I lose? What if I'm a first boot? Everybody's gonna make fun of me. And I realized, I'm like, wait, like, that's so egomaniac in my head right now. Like, why am I worried about that? Why am I worried about failure? I could very well fail. And what's the worst that's gonna happen if I do? I get to meet some incredible players who are probably gonna be on the season.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  I get to, you know, be out there and still get paid for being out there, because even the first boots, you make money.

• 40:34Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. How much you get paid to be on the show?

• 40:36Speaker 02

  So typically for a normal season, the person who's voted out first will make about $2,500. So. For being out there on the island, three days, you're making twenty-five hundred. Um, for season fifty, it was different. Um, I, I think the only thing I can say right now is that the first boot makes a minimum of forty thousand dollars.

• 40:56Haley Sacks?

  Whoa.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was the third boot. And so like, again, like, keep it, keep in mind, the money that I was making my first two jobs out of college, thirty thousand, forty thousand dollars a year. I made more money in a month than I was when I first graduated, like, so I'm like, how could I say no to that?

• 41:12Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Again, it's that principle of me, maybe I don't need that, you know, whatever, that, that amount of money, but I, I just, as a, my, my principles like, won't let me turn that down.

• 41:24Haley Sacks?

  I think it does, I would like, you're, all of your, uh, how we look at money is rooted in behaviors from when we were seven years old.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 41:32Haley Sacks?

  Like, it all is from childhood, so I feel like so much of this does come from the fact that like, you grew up with scarcity, with fear around money, and so it's like, someone's offering you a paycheck, you're never gonna really be able to confidently, even, even though you know you have enough, enough, I think that enough is probably a hard thing for you to really feel.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, there will never, I don't think there will ever be enough.

• 41:52Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  You know, which is like, I don't really love that mindset, I feel like, maybe being insatiable in that way isn't like, the healthiest way to think about money, um, and maybe I need to go to therapy for that, but at the same time, like, I think it also kind of has lit a fire in me, in, in some cases, and you know, for my first season, like, I was really determined out there, and, you know, there would be situations where I'm like, okay, I just have to push through this situation, through this one challenge, and it, I'm, I'm in pain right now, and it's hard, and it hurts, and I'm really going through a lot, but I'm also one person away from winning a million dollars.

• 42:27Haley Sacks?

  That's, that's really exciting.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:30Haley Sacks?

  Um, okay, can you walk us through more of the finances of the show, cause you just said that for the season forty-nine? For $2,500 if you're the first boot? So then what about the other levels? Like if you're the, if you are the runner up, how much do you get? Like, and also what are the finances of season 50?

• 42:48Speaker 02

  So I will say, I think like Survivor is probably one of the better paying shows. Like, I'm pretty sure like Bachelor, Bachelorette, like they don't make anything.

• 42:56Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  I mean, they make probably plenty off like the brand deals and like the influencing.

• 43:00Haley Sacks?

  And they have to pay for outfits. You didn't have to do any glam.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  No, I know, we're literally out there.

• 43:06Haley Sacks?

  Which we need, we'll talk about your big sweater later.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Yes, oh my God, I love that one. But for Survivor, at least for most seasons, the runner up, so second place person, they get $100,000.

• 43:17Haley Sacks?

  Oh, okay.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Yes, and so it is a pretty big jump from second to first place. But that second place person, like they're still walking away with a pretty nice paycheck. I think third place makes about 85. And then honestly, like because I like, I wasn't there for like the earlier boots. Like it's so hard for me to remember that pay structure. I think it goes up substantially though, once you get to what they call the jury phase. And so that's like maybe the, the top 10 people or so, they start making a decent amount of money.

• 43:48Haley Sacks?

  That's great. And you have to leave your, your job to go on the show?

• 43:52Speaker 02

  So what's wild, it depends on people's situation with, with their work. And so I'll tell you a little bit about what people from my first season did. I just, I took the time off unpaid. I think most people took time off unpaid. One person on my season, I believe, took like, I don't, it's not medical leave, but it's like the short, I think it was short-term disability and they weren't like totally honest.

• 44:17Haley Sacks?

  About why they were leaving? They're practicing their line.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly, right? You know, any way that you can. I think like in today's day and age, when you watch Survivor players in 2025, 2026, like it is people who have almost the luxury of being able to say, I can take the unpaid leave. I don't necessarily need that paycheck. Whereas, you know, when you watch Survivor in some of the earlier seasons, like you would see people who maybe come from a financial place where like they desperately needed the money. I think that is maybe one of the disparities. You see a lot of people from like, you know. Stable financial backgrounds play in the game and it's because they actually can't afford to go out and play.

• 44:57Haley Sacks?

  Love that. Oh, so you think that there's like a lot of sort of like, like richer people on Survivor because they can take a month off work?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Right. I wouldn't necessarily even say rich, but like comfortable.

• 45:05Haley Sacks?

  Financially stable, yeah. Okay, so it's like a reality show that attracts that?

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:10Haley Sacks?

  Because with America's Next Top Model, it was like they literally had to pay for their own food, pay for their own drinks. Like, it was so crazy and they weren't making money from the show.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, and I'll say this too, like, there are people who go on the show and who are struggling or who are in debt, but I think for the most part, you'll see more people who are comfortable, you know, leaving their, their families and their jobs and their financial situations for a month, month and a half.

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• 46:07Speaker 04

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• 46:33Haley Sacks?

  And what do you think is the biggest lie that the show tells through editing? Like, were you satisfied with the edits that you got on each season?

• 46:40Speaker 02

  I was, actually, which is wild. Yeah, because I think for the first season, I come across as a villain and...

• 46:46Haley Sacks?

  So you went in wanting to be a villain?

• 46:48Speaker 02

  I thought I might have some villainous tendencies, but here's the thing.

• 46:52Haley Sacks?

  Honestly, I see it.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Really?

• 46:53Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Like, what do you mean?

• 46:54Haley Sacks?

  No, just like, I feel like you like, you have like a lot, what you give out. Could be different than what's going on inside, you know?

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:02Haley Sacks?

  Like, I feel like I'm very, like, my cards are just all on the table, but like you, your cards are more close to your chest.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's

• 47:08Haley Sacks?

  Which is chic.

• 47:09Speaker 02

  I'm jealous. I'll be chic.

• 47:11Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, that is chic.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  So I think that my edit, because I did get, you know, accused of being a mean girl, and I heard a lot of people online who did not like my persona on the show. And I think, you know, it is hard for, for editors to show a full picture of someone, right? They have so many hours of footage, and you get one and a half hours a week to show, you know, up to 18 contestants, like, you're of course only gonna see a fraction of them. I love how editors showed my strong side and my fierce side and my bold side. I think that some people's perceptions of me, though, and I'm not just talking about the cast, but people in the real world who might say I give off mean girl energy when I'm not even really doing anything that mean.

• 47:57Speaker 02

  I think that's kind of a reflection of where our society is and how we view women who act in a certain way, or who will say certain things, or who will do whatever it takes to win a million dollars. Like, I'm not going out there to be Miss Congeniality. I'm going out there to win a million dollars. What, no, like, you know, I don't need to be a nice girl.

• 48:16Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, and what does it take to win? I love that. And I think, like, so, and you see it in the workplace, too. A woman is a bitch. A woman is like, you know, cold, all these things. She, like, just because they're trying to, like, be a leader.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:28Haley Sacks?

  You know?

• 48:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you can see men who display those same attributes, and no one's calling them a mean boy.

• 48:35Haley Sacks?

  No, and that's not even a term that we use.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah.

• 48:39Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, that should be the new thing.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  I know.

• 48:41Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Let's start it.

• 48:42Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 48:42Speaker 02

  Let's go for the men.

• 48:43Haley Sacks?

  We need the new Tina Fey movie, Mean Boys.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Exactly. So, I don't know, that's an interesting, Survivor's like a reflection of what's going on in our society in a lot of ways, and I think that's, that's one of them, you know?

• 48:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, definitely. And like, when it came to winning, because you were saying, okay, you did all your hot yoga, your Pilates to get your core strong, but I also know

• 49:06Haley Sacks?

  That you had been watching since season one.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Girl, day one fan.

• 49:10Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, so you like were sort of training in a way your whole life for this, it sounds like. So what does that look like?

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Like, what do you mean, what does that look like?

• 49:18Haley Sacks?

  I mean, like, okay, basically, like, I think that it's really impressive that you won Survivor, because it like does require so much strategy, but also physical grit. And so I was wondering how you prepare for that and also what of those qualities you find make you successful in the real world?

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Oh, that's such a good question. Okay. So I think like grit is everything.

• 49:40Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Especially for my game in Survivor, but that's something I really just learned like from my work as a journalist, like.

• 49:46Haley Sacks?

  Wow.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  I mean, that industry is so hard and I went into it, you know, not for the money, of course, I didn't give two shits about being on TV, like I genuinely wanted to make a positive impact in the world and I thought that journalism and communication was my best, you know, chance at doing that. And that industry is, you know, there's, there were years where I was waking up at 1:30 in the morning to go to work. There were years where I was working until midnight and working on weekends, so I had no life. You give up a lot to do that job. And when you're out there in the field, every day is full of surprises. And a lot of those surprises aren't really good surprises, right? Um, you'll find out halfway through your shift that your story has changed and you still have to be on air at 4:00 PM with the lead story and you have to get interviews from X, Y, and Z.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  And a lot of these things sound like they are daunting tasks and you're wondering how on earth am I gonna make this work? But at the same time, you don't have time to say, oh shit, like I feel sorry for myself or like you don't have, you literally don't have time to feel defeated. You just go straight from, okay, I got this news, now we're in action mode, right? And it's this mindset that, you know, I, I literally spent 10 years building. And so when I'm, I'm in the game, but also in my real life now, like, I just kind of, you know, I, I react and I, my reaction is that action plan.

• 51:05Haley Sacks?

  Oh, that's so good. So you're never getting like so emotionally bent out of shape? You're able to take a step back and look at things clearly and then figure out, okay, what's the most pragmatic next step?

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 51:17Haley Sacks?

  I feel like you have to be very practical.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Yes, and I think that actually is one of the things that.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  You know, it's a good thing in a lot of senses. I think that sometimes, though, I don't necessarily process those emotions because I just am so quick to go to, okay, my reaction, I'm gonna take action.

• 51:34Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  And so those emotions do get kind of like bottled up and then they'll come out like later and I'll be like a total mess. That's actually one of the things that happened in my first season. I just like had an emotional like breakdown because I had just been reacting and not processing, you know?

• 51:48Haley Sacks?

  Which we loved as viewers.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:51Haley Sacks?

  That's the issue with reality TV, we're like, the more your mental health, yeah, it struggles.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  It's fun to watch. It is fun to watch. Not fun to experience, but you know, life is all about finding that balance though, right?

• 52:03Haley Sacks?

  I love that. So who did you trust that you feel like you really should not have trusted?

• 52:07Speaker 02

  You know, it's wild, my, like in the game, for my first season, probably my best friend out there. I know. And in real life, she is such a gem, like I love her. She's been there for me. She's been there for my partner throughout the whole process. But there was a point at the, you know, we're watching the season back and I start to hear her say almost every week, like, Sav is a big threat, like I will need to turn on her eventually. And at the very end of the game, she did turn on me. Yeah. And she turned on me and our other closest ally. And I was, I just remember being like, oh my gosh, like I thought this woman's intentions were to go all the way to the end with me. And it felt in a sense, almost like, like when you're going through a breakup.

• 52:50Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  And your partner might say like, I don't want to have anything to do with you, I'm done with you. It felt like I was rejected like that in that moment and just those thoughts of, wait, but like, I thought we were supposed to be together. Like, how can you be, you know, moving on without me? Like, I thought we were gonna go to the end together. And to have, have that, that happen and to also have to relive it as it's airing, you know, six months later. It's the wildest experience, but you know, what happens on the island, in my experience, has stayed on the island. And my friend, like when we were gone, gone filming 50, she messaged my boyfriend every single day, checking in on him. Um, when I got back, she had this huge gift basket for me, like, you know, just saying,

• 53:34Speaker 02

  "Good job on 50." She's seen me cry. She's been my shoulder to cry on a lot.

• 53:39Haley Sacks?

  I'm sorry. Like, for me at least, like, if someone burns me in that way, like, even if they're doing all these nice actions, like, I'm still gonna be very, or at least a little bit suspicious. Like, you're never, could never get back that original trust. It's like, if someone cheats on you, you're like, maybe you stay in the relationship, but like, how do you ever rebuild from a place of like, actually trust?

• 53:59Speaker 02

  You know, it's all in the context of the game, right? And you, like, one of the cool things about, you know, my, my friend in particular, and I think also me, is like, I've been really good about being able to keep stuff confined to that 26-day period. Um, I feel like I've always been really good at compartmentalizing, probably from my work as a journalist. You know, you're covering a murder at, uh, 6:00 PM, and then you go home. Are you gonna take that with you? No, you have to, you know, leave it. Leave it in the day. Um, and, you know, I feel like you see someone's true colors when they're not, you know, up against you for a million dollars, um, in the real world. And, you know?

• 54:34Haley Sacks?

  I think for you also, like, you really do value money. Like, it's like, and of course, we all do, but it's like, I do, I feel like it does just like, like, the million dollars really hit for you. Like, the prize of Survivor, like, I'm sure it hits for everyone, but it's like, I don't know, I just keep thinking back to, like, you know, how your childhood and all these things. Like, it like, it feels like it meant something even bigger for you. So you get, like, that it could mean something different for everyone, too.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:00Haley Sacks?

  Um, and like, sort of empathize and are able to, like, see it through that lens.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And I mean, I look at my game, too. Like, I lied to people. I backstabbed people. I was not my best self a lot of times with some of those people who are out there on the island. And a lot of the people who I was competing with and who maybe didn't like me when I was out there, they have been able to say, "All right, Savannah, that was you in the game when you're starving and you're hangry and you're kind of crazy. But we know Savannah outside of the game." Those are, you know, the same person at times, but they're also very different. Um, we're a product of our environment, right?

• 55:34Haley Sacks?

  So besides competing on Survivor, what's the other craziest thing that you've done for money?

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Oh, oh my gosh. You know, honestly, probably working in those smaller markets out of college where like you're thirty thousand dollars. Like, I know there's people who make that, but like, I just felt like at the time, like, it was no money for where I wanted to be at the time. And I mean, I remember when I moved to San Antonio after working, that was my second job in San Antonio and having like no money in my bank account and being like, oh, my God, like, how am I gonna eat this week? Like, before my job actually started and just being like, I really hope that this investment into my career and working in these small markets has been worth it. Um, let me think. I mean, because I'm trying to think about, like, anything else that I've done crazy for money, but like, I'm

• 56:25Haley Sacks?

  Like, how far would you take it, girl?

• 56:27Speaker 02

  Well, what are the options?

• 56:28Haley Sacks?

  I don't know.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  What are the options? I'm not gonna do anything, like, sexual.

• 56:31Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, no, that's your line, I feel like.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:34Haley Sacks?

  But you would do, like, like, an embarrassing ad campaign?

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like, what do I want to do? Like, fart on TV? Like, I'll do that.

• 56:40Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:43Haley Sacks?

  You're just gonna get the bag.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so, because at the end of the day, like, you know, it's funny, because people watch the show and they think I have, like, a big ego, big confidence problem. But like, I don't really have that big of an ego. Like, I, my ego's not big enough to stop me from doing a lot of stuff, you know what I mean? Um, I'm able to put that aside and say, you know, if this is gonna help me for my future, like, fuck it.

• 57:02Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, and what is, like, your version of, like, who's your future rich person?

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Like, what do I wanna, where do I wanna be?

• 57:08Haley Sacks?

  Like, where do you, like, what are you working towards?

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I

• 57:10Haley Sacks?

  And like, what is, what, because we just said, like, oh, you don't really, enough doesn't exist for you, so like,

• 57:15Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 57:15Haley Sacks?

  What does that, how does that look, do you think, in the future?

• 57:18Speaker 02

  You know, it's, that is the tricky part, because I really, I hate to say it, I don't think anything will really ever be enough. Um, maybe that'll change over time, but I wanna be in a place where I can travel freely, and I wanna be in a place, too, where I don't feel like I need to say yes to everything. And I'm kind of in that place right now, where I'm able to pick and choose what projects

• 57:42Haley Sacks?

  Right up your hair.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Yes, like,

• 57:45Speaker 02

  So I'm in a good spot now, but I really want to be in a place where I can be very selective, where I don't necessarily have to work every day. And where not only me, but my partner, like I want to travel the world with him and I want to just, you know, live life to be this amazing adventure.

• 58:05Haley Sacks?

  That's so fun.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I don't know. Money, money will come, you know?

• 58:10Haley Sacks?

  So that's like, that's what you're working towards? Like when you think about that money in your investment account, like that money you're thinking about, okay, that's my travel fund, that's my, you know, what does retirement look like for you?

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Like, girl.

• 58:24Haley Sacks?

  Or you don't think that'll happen? Or it's like, or is that your safety net? That's like your money if you get sick, that's your money, like if something bad, like how do you view that, the financial security that you've gotten from the show?

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say it's an investment into my future for sure. So if I'm able to, you know, years, years down the line, like that would be like ideally what I would be living off as far as retirement goes.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  But I also do feel like I'm the kind of person who I always do like to be doing something.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  I think maybe when I can retire, I still probably am going to want to be doing shit.

• 59:00Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:01Haley Sacks?

  You're about that bag.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  I know.

• 59:03Haley Sacks?

  Focused on it.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  I am.

• 59:05Haley Sacks?

  Um, okay, wait, but I've always, I'm like really excited that you're here because I've always wondered, like watching Survivor, what support the contestants get behind the scenes, like are you getting, someone familiar with the production told me that like you might get water, you might get sunscreen.

• 59:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:21Haley Sacks?

  But that's really it, like there's no food being slipped your way when the cameras, are you ever seeing the cameraman eat or camera woman and like you're like, can I have a bite? Like, is this accurate? Is it what you expected?

• 59:32Speaker 02

  I want to know who your source is.

• 59:33Haley Sacks?

  No, we can't obviously say the source, girl.

• 59:36Speaker 02

  It's Jeff Probst.

• 59:36Haley Sacks?

  It's Jeff. No, Jeff obviously got him on the horn before you got here.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  I love that. No, so the only things they give you.

• 59:42Haley Sacks?

  Do they NDA you? Like, can you just say everything about the experience?

• 59:45Speaker 02

  So there is a lot out there on the internet, but I'm assuming most of your listeners aren't on the subreddits every day, like.

• 59:53Haley Sacks?

  Well, I don't know, we could have, there's people. You would be surprised.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:56Haley Sacks?

  Though, I mean, the Survivor heads, like, they run deep.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  Yes, they do. We are everywhere, too.

• 1:00:00Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Um, so you do get water, you do get sunscreen, and you do get, like, bug repellent and insect repellent.

• 1:00:07Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Doesn't necessarily work on all the bugs out there, like, you could still get bites and stuff, but for the most part, like, they want to make sure that you're not actually out there, like, suffering too bad.

• 1:00:16Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  Um, so that's pretty much it. Um, oh, for women, also, you get, like, feminine products, so like, you know, when you're, if you get your period, there's some women who never bleed when they're out there, just because your hormones are all over the place.

• 1:00:27Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Um, but, yeah, so they'll do that. Um, as far as, did you ask about after the show?

• 1:00:34Haley Sacks?

  No, I was wondering, like, during the show.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:37Haley Sacks?

  Obviously, now I'm like, what are you talking about after the show?

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:00:39Haley Sacks?

  I want to know that, too.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Haley Sacks?

  When you're filming, like, is there any, like, secret granola bar, like?

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  No, no granola bars, no toilet paper. I will say, like, the cameraman, like, you don't even see them eating, you know? Because, like, that would be actually cruel if you're starving and you look over and you see, like, a cameraman with a big sandwich, right?

• 1:00:55Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, with a big, there's, like, eating Jersey Mike's.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:00:58Haley Sacks?

  It's so good.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Well, the, the thing, though, is that you do get the opportunity to get rewards, and as the season goes on, the rewards will get, like, bigger and better. So, the first food reward on my first season was, like, a platter of fruit, which, like, you know, it's whatever, it's fruit.

• 1:01:13Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  But you're so hungry, you're like, I'll eat anything.

• 1:01:17Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Um, as the season, season goes on, we had the opportunity to get, like, I think a steak dinner was the last one. We had tacos, there were people who got burgers, grilled cheese sandwich.

• 1:01:27Haley Sacks?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  The food is, like, I mean, if you're in New York, like, you're probably having better food here. Um, but when you're not eating, like, it is literally amazing.

• 1:01:37Haley Sacks?

  I mean, even, like, when I'm hungry and then I eat, it's like, I could eat anything and be so excited. So if I was on Survivor, I think it would be more intense.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Yes, for sure.

• 1:01:46Haley Sacks?

  Oh, and then also, my other question, and real heads obviously want to know, where is your amazing big sweater from?

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my god. Okay, so I thrifted that.

• 1:01:56Haley Sacks?

  Oh.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  So, most of the clothes that you see me on the show with, like, there are things that were already in my closet. They told me, like, I was gonna be basically on the red tribe, and so bring clothes that are red, or orange, or brown. So I didn't really do a ton of shopping, um, but that sweater, I was looking for something that could keep me warm, but also something that would be... You know, reflective of my personality.

• 1:02:18Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Um, I, I wanted to wear something that I was proud to wear. And I think a lot of times, you know, we can tell a lot about a person by,

• 1:02:25Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  how they present themselves.

• 1:02:26Haley Sacks?

  Oh, a hundred percent.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so I thought like, okay, well, this sweater is, it's kind of bold. It's fun. It's kind of oversized, which shows that like, you know, it, it can be a little casual. Like that's the vibe I want to give.

• 1:02:37Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. Okay. Love that.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  I still have it too.

• 1:02:39Haley Sacks?

  Oh my, that's, I mean, we could auction that off.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 1:02:42Haley Sacks?

  For sure.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:02:43Haley Sacks?

  Okay. And then the last thing that I want to tell you was that I actually was the man from Cameo.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 1:02:49Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  I brought my bikini today, so I'll give you a live cameo in the back after this.

• 1:02:52Haley Sacks?

  Low key, big savanna head, just trying to get all those cameos. Okay, sippers, thank you so much for listening or watching to another episode of Financial Tea. We are back every Thursday. Make sure that you rate and subscribe. It really helps the show. And also, if you have not gotten your copy of Future Rich Person yet, it's my book. It comes out May 12th. And when you preorder, I've been telling you guys, you get $700 worth of financial freebies that will help you become that future rich person. So if you really want to maximize your investment in yourself, you want to make 2026 the year that you get your finances in order, this is the step that you need to take. And if you like the show, you're going to be obsessed with my book because it's just like me,

• 1:03:37Haley Sacks?

  but I just am teaching you all about how to grow wealth, especially in this crazy economic period of 2026. Um, okay, Sam Altman is calling me, so I have to go, but stay rich.

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.