UFO Crash Retrieval: Jake Barber’s FIRSTHAND Account (ft. Logan Paul & Ammar Kandil)

Rocket Money: Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to https://RocketMoney.com/jesse today. Join Jesse Michels as he sits down with Jake Barber, a former intelligence officer and whistleblower who shares his experiences with Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) and the U. S. government's secretive programs surrounding them. SUPPORT JAKE BELOW: https://x.com/jakebarber2025 https://x.com/skywatcherhq https://www.skywatcher.ai 🛸 Watch Exclusive Videos & Join Group Calls with Jesse ➤ https://whop.com/americanalchemypremium CREDITS: Featuring Jesse Michels Jacob Barber Ammar Kandil Logan Paul Edited by Bryan Felber Additional Editing Jordyn Edmonds Patrick Fitzsimmons Intro Sequence Ross @FlatPackFX Bryan Felber Jesse Michels (song) Special Thanks Ross Coulthart RedPandaKoala Music Jordyn Edmonds Artlist Timestamps: 00:00 Opening 05:24 Jake's Introduction 10:12 The Air Force Recruitment Journey 15:45 Entering Special Operations Training 20:35 Deception in Military Training 24:32 Health Issues 27:59 Bentwaters Incident 31:25 UFO Crash Retrievals 38:24 The Egg Recovery Experience 49:19 Summoning the Egg 58:16 Octagon Shaped Craft Retrieval 01:05:42 Psionic Assets 01:16:30 Human Trafficking (Michael Herrera Story) 01:28:25 The Role of Private Aerospace Contractors 01:33:19 The Program (The Changing Tides) 01:52:28 The Clinton Era and Disclosure 01:55:02 JFK and UFO Connections 01:57:40 The Need for Accountability 01:59:08 Witnesses and Whistleblowers 02:03:30 Red Teaming DOPSR 02:09:35 The Strategy Behind Disclosure 02:14:36 Belief in Non-Human Intelligences 02:19:30 The New Jersey Drone Incident 02:33:28 Institutional Distrust 02:39:00 Project Blue Beam 02:40:53 Angels and Demons 02:45:37 The Personal Journey 02:57:34 Preparing for Future Demonstrations 03:01:06 Embracing a Broader Reality Become a Member of American Alchemy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuG2KzrIMe3qoNcuDVpwnXw/join INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [email protected] #documentary #uap #science #news #aliens #disclosure Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jesse Michels?

  For thousands of years, people have been seeing objects in the sky that they can't identify. And today, we have somebody who has actually retrieved a UFO firsthand. A firsthand witness.

• 0:18Jesse Michels?

  The energy is just really good. It's perfect. How are you, dude?

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Not a lot of sleep for either of us.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  You guys didn't sleep?

• 0:27Jesse Michels?

  I didn't sleep at all.

• 0:28Speaker 02

  No fucking way, really? Why?

• 0:30Jesse Michels?

  I'm just pumped.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  We have five people sending us hot cameras right now, and nobody knows why we're here.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  You didn't tell them?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  No.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  You didn't tell them?

• 0:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  Bro.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Okay, everybody, can we have everybody here? I just want to let everybody know what we're here for. Start with, just thank you, everybody came in on a 36-hour notice. For the first time in all these years of doing interviews with UFO-related people. Today, we're going to be talking to firsthand witness. So it's no longer the guy that talked to the guy, it is the guy himself.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Part of why I'm valuable is because I am like, I'm at the fingertips of this thing. And everyone, the people I've heard from, are at a high administrative leadership.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  This is super dangerous for him right now. Like, right now, we're in a limbo because the story's supposed to break out on News Nation, hopefully this week. And every day that it doesn't go live, there's more danger. It's live.

• 1:34Speaker 04

  So tell me about the moment when you realized that you were involved in a retrieval of non-human technology?

• 1:44Speaker 03

  I was trained as a pilot a long time ago. And the last 20 years, I've served more as a pilot than I have as a ground crew member or in any other capacity. Good morning.

• 1:56Jesse Michels?

  Jake, have you retrieved a non-human craft?

• 2:00Speaker 03

  Yes, I have.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  For everyone that's getting exposed to this right now, humble yourself from the perspective of what you consider believable.

• 2:11Jesse Michels?

  Can you describe the retrievals, end to end?

• 2:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15Jesse Michels?

  What happens? Where are you?

• 2:18Speaker 03

  I sit back at a separate location. I get GPS coordinates at the very last second. I get dispatched, I go there. And then in route, from very short range out, maybe five minutes out, I get read a description of what it is I'm picking up.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  It's so real when you look at it. It's not like in the background, you're hearing, "Oh!" And there's this light, like this is an epic moment. Where's the crescendo? It's like, no, it's just flying a helicopter, come on a ridge, there's an egg sitting there, and dude's sitting around on the ground, flashing you, calling you in. It doesn't register as exciting, you know, in that format.

• 3:00Jesse Michels?

  I don't know, when I'm hearing the story, a big, giant, 20-foot egg, how do you know that's not human intelligence?

• 3:07Speaker 03

  Since we've left the program and reorganized and are now working with Arrow, I can make the egg show up. And we have. And we've demonstrated it post-program. And we did it in August.

• 3:19Jesse Michels?

  Oh, my God.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  In broad daylight.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  At the moment, we elicited the egg. The egg flies by in dead silence, moving at 10,000 miles per hour.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  All right, and this is one more.

• 3:37Speaker 05

  Guy in the light tan suit.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Everyone likes to ask, "Why am I not afraid that someone's gonna try and silence me with death?" There are people that have died, who were coming out and who were speaking out on our activities.

• 3:52Jesse Michels?

  Anybody you know?

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:55Jesse Michels?

  Can you say anything more?

• 3:56Speaker 03

  No, because there's an investigation happening right now.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  I'm not afraid of the boogeyman. I am the boogeyman.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  You don't want to show up at my house and think you're going to be successful with brute force because that's going to go south for you really quickly.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  It's got this cold, military, political stigma attached to it, but that's not it. It's not about like flying equipment, like, oh, can we get in a flying saucer and like, get to London in two minutes? Or could we get there yesterday because now we know China? Like, screw all that. The real implications are way more powerful.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  It's realizing that there is something else out there that's maybe not extra at all. It's something that's part of us. It's like outer space versus inner space is all the same.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  What's up?

• 5:31Jesse Michels?

  What's up?

• 5:34Jesse Michels?

  Bogeyman. For thousands of years, people have been seeing objects in the sky that they can't identify. For maybe the last 80 years, we've been speculating as to American government, other governments' involvement with UFOs. And today, we have somebody who has actually retrieved a UFO firsthand, a firsthand witness. And we have this amazing crew, by the way. We have Ammar present, we have Logan present. And we don't have, you know, we've gotten to know you a little bit over the last month, but we don't have a ton of context as to what exactly you experienced.

• 6:17Jesse Michels?

  And so we want to really get down to the basics and maybe just start with, who are you? Let's bring it all the way back to your childhood.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah. Well, man.

• 6:28Speaker 03

  I mean, first thing I should say is, like, looking back to me, it's clear that the intelligence community looks for kids like me. I had what you could probably call what I, the four I's, let's say. Imagination, intellect, intuition, and instincts. My grandfathers were the best men you could ever imagine. I had, you know, we could call them Navy grandpa and Army grandpa, let's do that. So Navy grandpa was a very influential naval officer. He was actually a member of the Navy SEAL's predecessors, the Scouts and Raiders. He and my, my other

• 7:09Speaker 03

  grandfather, Army grandpa, they laid the foundation to our fam- literally put the cornerstone in, took, had their pictures taken in the 50's, laying the cornerstone to our, our family church. Up until the point my parents divorced, I had a pretty good childhood, but when stepfamilies entered the picture, when things became hell for me. How did they become hell?

• 7:37Speaker 03

  The environment in the stepfamily at my mom's house, which is where I spent most of my time, was abusive. Physically abusive. Specifically because of your stepfather? Stepfather and stepbrother, his son, who is much older than me, but. What sort of abuse? I mean, really, all three, if there, there are three, like, what, like, physically, verbally, and like, low-key sexually abusive, like borderline sexually abusive, too. And so, I just, I chose to, like, live outside, basically. And by the time I got in high school, my Navy grandpa had encouraged me to get into swimming and water polo. And I

• 8:21Speaker 03

  had also continued to do art and music, and had entered a science contest, and won a state science fair based on a, a project I had done. What was the project? It's called Color Chords. And in my music class, I, we had learned at a very rudimentary level this thing called the Circles of Fifths, which is a, basically a pie chart where.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  You can break down and learn the intervals of harmonies. Basically, you got a root note, or for many root note, there's a what's called a perfect fifth. And that fifth rings a harmony, which is pleasant. There's also a third, and in a major chord, you have a first, a third, and a fifth. In a minor chord, you have a first, a minor third, which is a half an interval down. But you keep that major fifth. And it makes what people refer to as like a sad sound or sad. But they're both beautiful. It's more of a happy beautiful than like a deeper dramatic beautiful. So the understanding of harmony in the sound world is when wavelengths overlap in a way

• 9:26Speaker 03

  that forms some form of geometry that is enhancing rather than degrading to the independent waveforms, you get something like harmony and your ear can pick that up and your emotions can react to it in a variety of ways. So I'm like, well, shoot, if photons make waveforms, are there color combinations that can have that same complementary interplay? Where when the colors combined that they're pleasant? And could it be that they actually elicit the exact same emotions? It was really cool. I did well in our local area and I kept, I went on to county and then I went on to the state and I got awarded with like 10 other kids an award at the state level for that project.

• 10:07Jesse Michels?

  Well, you are, you talk about trauma being a part of what the intelligence community was looking for.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:13Jesse Michels?

  Let's get into the juicy stuff, which is the Air Force recruiting you.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:18Jesse Michels?

  How did they recruit you? How'd you get in touch?

• 10:22Speaker 03

  So when I got expelled my senior year, my grandfather pulled some strings and got me into another high school. My parents were involved in that process, but unbeknownst to my parents, I also had this secret intervention with my grandfathers. Both of them came together and they began exploring military opportunities for me. They like, they just saw that that's what I needed. And for me, I was like, yeah, I want to jump out of airplanes and kill bad people. Like, I'm all in. Just, I want that job. I don't want to do like a desk job or cook. And so they set out, made phone calls and, you know, looking back, I don't think they had any idea what they were getting me into. Um, I mean, I didn't either. I don't blame them. It's not like they were complicit or part of some deep state and like,

• 11:08Speaker 03

  put their grandson up for offering to the program. It wasn't like that, but, you know, I took some uh, initial screening in our local area and then we traveled down by UCLA and I went through a series of tests over multiple visits like, all your basic stuff, I mean, physical stuff, physiological, but then went into psychological, um,

• 11:30Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  Uh, testing, creative testing. So I went down and the first time I'd ever taken an IQ test. So you take it two times, at least twice, but two different ways, I'll say. The first time I took it, I think it was just a straight up IQ test and I remember knowing exactly what I got. Cause I was so interested to find out and it was like one thirty-eight. And I was like, oh, that kind of sucks. Like, that's not very high.

• 11:53Jesse Michels?

  It's pretty high.

• 11:54Speaker 03

  I'm like, you're not supposed, I'm supposed to be smarter than that.

• 11:57Jesse Michels?

  Hundreds average.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  But then they do the second thing, which is a stress IQ test.

• 12:02Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 12:02Speaker 03

  And so you take the same test, but I put on this oxygen mask that sealed my face with no air coming to it.

• 12:09Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 12:10Speaker 03

  And I took that test and I tested a one fifty-two.

• 12:13Jesse Michels?

  No way.

• 12:14Speaker 03

  So.

• 12:15Jesse Michels?

  You scored higher.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  I scored way higher under stress. And that's when my concept for comfort and chaos began to form. And I was like, oh, like, I'm a different person. I'm like, see things more clearly, like I see the code or whatever, like under stress. It's like, things make more sense to me.

• 12:33Jesse Michels?

  A- a- anybody watching this is probably thinking, this is a very unique recruiting process for the military. This isn't like going online, submitting an application. What did you end up getting recruited for?

• 12:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. So. I ended up getting recruited to a brand-new program that was called GTEP, which was a guaranteed training education program, I believe is what the acronym was at the time. And for me, this was a 10-year contract that would fast-track me through special operations training through the Department of the Air Force, through a career field at the time called Combat Control. It's still called Combat Control. And what's interesting for people to probably know, which, moving forward, keep this in the back of your mind, is that, you know, the Air Force is this agency that straddled the blue-black line, let's call it, since its inception in 1947, like, two weeks after Roswell incident.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  You get the National Security Act, you get the formation of the Air Force, CIA, at the same time, Department of Defense, and the Air Force has been that agency that straddled the blue-black line ever since.

• 13:39Jesse Michels?

  And just to be clear for the audience, the blue-black line, the blue is the kind of open-source, white world, out in the open. Black world is, you know, highly cleared, sensitive stuff. Is that right?

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the good way to think about it is

• 13:56Speaker 03

  the black world that we operate in is like a four-dimensional projection into a three-dimensional world. It has its presence here, and there's indications of it, but you're not going to get it, because so much of what you're seeing is tied and connected to other things through another dimension you're not paying attention to. And that's how this exists, that's how we exist, and that's how we manipulate reality and truth and get away with things that people don't understand.

• 14:25Jesse Michels?

  That is unbelievable. You sound like Carl Sagan describing platonic solids. You're describing an elite military unit.

• 14:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, what I need to make very clear is, although I was prospected into Combat Control, I became something very different. And that was simply my gateway into the program. So, I signed a contract for Combat Control in 1994 and shipped off to basic training in Texas. After completing basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas, I then was shipped out to a place called Operating Location Hotel, which we called OLH. And this was a selection for Air Force Special Warfare Combat Control Para Rescue. And although I had been prescreened and signed this crazy 10-year contract that guaranteed this 17-year-old kid

• 15:15Speaker 03

  Two and a half years of specialized training, which to understand how incredible that is, is traditionally, or I should say historically, for special warfare or special operations like military-wide, you don't get into those programs without first being enlisted and then earning your selection and being recommended for special units. And then even once you're in those special units, what specialized schools you go to is not guaranteed and it happens over a period of time. So after I graduated selection, which is the initial phase of weeding out candidates, it's about a four-week course at O L H. We had a class of about eighty-nine people, I remember,

• 16:00Speaker 03

  and nine of my original classmates graduated together from that class. And then we shipped off to what we call the pipeline, which is our trade schools where we learn our craft.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  Somewhere early on in the pipeline, I was approached by two individuals who convinced me that it would be a good idea if I became an airplane mechanic. And

• 16:28Speaker 03

  Can you say anything more about those two individuals?

• 16:33Speaker 03

  One of them was clearly gay, which was interesting because I quite enjoyed the talk. I thought it was fun. And for some reason, I've always been really compatible with gay men, much to their disappointment because I'm very straight as an arrow with my sexual orientation. But so there's that. I can share that. And they had sold me on the idea.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  They, you know, they sold me on this idea. And ultimately, what it was, I knew I was doing something different and special. And you have to understand, in the nineties, the op tempo was really low. And everyone kind of knew, like, you would go through your training, but a lot of guys that, once they made it to their teams, were kind of like Dude, let's go, let's go to war and there was no war.

• 17:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  And so a lot of people were getting out tired of just training.

• 17:20Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  And what was kind of sold to this young crazy kid Jacob Barber was that you're gonna get to do things others aren't gonna get to do. There is a lot going on that we'd like to use you for, but you first have to go do this thing for us. And that is learning how to be an airplane mechanic. So I'm like, okay. I then shipped off to airplane mechanic school. Upon completing that, I reported directly to Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  When I was there, you know, I spent a lot of time turning wrenches on the, on the flight line as a mechanic. But outside of that, I spent all my time training.

• 17:57Jesse Michels?

  Was that a hazing ritual or would that come in handy with what you were ultimately going to do? Like, like just learning to become an airplane mechanic?

• 18:04Speaker 03

  No, it was my cover.

• 18:05Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 18:06Speaker 03

  So my cover was working as an airplane mechanic. I came in during the Clinton era and that's no coincidence. That had a lot to do with this program and what I became, come to find out. And I spent a lot of time deploying on those type of missions in support of President Clinton. I can explain, I can go to detail there a little bit. I was involved in Bosnia, I deployed to Bosnia. I was involved in liberation of Kuwait, had a lot of combat time. But ultimately what I was being refined for was a red teamer. I became a red team expert. Red team you could think of is an opposition force. In fact, that's, that's exactly what we call it is OPFOR, Opposition Force.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  And red team's job in any scenario is to exploit all the weaknesses of blue team and find the vulnerabilities and then use those against blue team. So in an exercise, we would participate where the militaries, blue forces or, or traditional forces would deploy their tactics and then we would be set out to play the opponent or the enemy and were given liberty, boundless liberty on how to just go and fuck up their life. Like try and make their life hell. You get to be creative, think outside the box, innovate ways and find holes in our systems. So we'd go out and it was a lot of fun and we'd find ways to completely disrupt

• 19:34Speaker 03

  the standard operating procedures of units. And then in exercises.

• 19:40Speaker 03

  That were global and dealt very closely with other subject matter related to UAP. We're involved with those and had to come up with innovative ways to

• 19:54Speaker 03

  to be adversarial towards our own forces. And I, I found out that like my four eyes that I explained earlier were tools of war. And, you know, anyone that's read The Art of War, you know, what's the first rule in The Art of War? Do you know?

• 20:11Jesse Michels?

  Now, what is the first rule?

• 20:12Speaker 03

  Deception.

• 20:13Jesse Michels?

  Deception.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  Deception is the first rule in The Art of War is to deceive and to always act like something you're not. Now, I think about it, that's probably alarming coming from me right now.

• 20:24Jesse Michels?

  I was just gonna ask, how do we know?

• 20:25Speaker 03

  That guy is full of shit.

• 20:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do we know you're not red teaming us right now?

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Well, you don't. You don't know that. I'm, you really don't.

• 20:33Jesse Michels?

  That was an honest answer.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't know that. So I, and all I can do, I expect to get asked that a lot is like, you know, I'll paraphrase a book from Matthew, I think it is, like, "You will know me by my fruits."

• 20:48Speaker 03

  And so just pay attention to what's happening. You can evaluate the impact of what I'm doing.

• 20:52Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  And, and that's all you can do.

• 20:55Jesse Michels?

  Well, that's an amazing message for the audience too, which is they should corroborate the things that you're saying through their own open source research.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:02Jesse Michels?

  And if it, if it validates and checks, they should, they should think for themselves. And not just, you know, take all of us for our word.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 21:10Jesse Michels?

  Willy nilly. You mentioned other things being sort of adjacent to UFO or UAP retrievals. What were the other things you were doing as part of this group?

• 21:19Speaker 03

  Um, while, while enlisted, I did a lot of security and escort of HVTs, which are called high value targets. So I held a NATO top secret security clearance, um, at times when I needed to, and was manifested to classified flights where we would be dispatched. We would secure targets and transport those targets and deliver them to other places and then hand them off to other teams. These targets, most of the time, were like sealed containers. We called them mystery boxes. I couldn't tell you what was inside. Um, it could be a variety of things. There was a variety of sizes. Something, you know, small enough that could fit on a helicopter, something large enough that it had to be put on a C5 Galaxy.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  Sometimes it had to be trucked, sometime it had to be taken in pieces, but it was always put in the little mystery boxes. Um, one, one thing that should be noted is that one of these missions I was involved in, I got very sick afterwards and um, lost every hair on my body, skin peeled off my arms, I was nauseous, um, and I was, it was obvious in hindsight that I was exposed most likely to some form of radiation. Um, and this really upsets some people when I tell this story, especially friends like uh, Dr. Gary Nolan, who's, who helps me with, with this issue now, um, but-

• 22:49Jesse Michels?

  Real quick, just for the audience-

• 22:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:51Jesse Michels?

  Gary Nolan is a Stanford microbiologist-

• 22:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:53Jesse Michels?

  He's a Nobel nominee every year, he's tenured there, and he's incredibly interested in the UFO subject.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 23:00Jesse Michels?

  In fact, he claims to have, and I've seen them actually, crashed retrieval parts-

• 23:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:05Jesse Michels?

  From his friend, he's a long time kind of the godfather of UFO research, a guy named Jacques Vallée-

• 23:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:10Jesse Michels?

  And Gary does mass spectrometry on them, but he also was approached by the CIA in I think-

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:16Jesse Michels?

  2016-ish, uh, around people who have, uh, encountered UAP, NHI, and the biological effects that they've incurred.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Correct, and that's, that's the nature of my relationship with Gary, so, Dr. Nolan. Uh, yeah, I, I now, I'm still suffering from that experience most likely and subsequent experiences and, but it's only now that I'm getting proper care because of how, I want to say this because I don't want to make the Air Force out to be this evil irresponsible entity, because as much as they are, they also aren't in this one circumstance, I don't believe they knew what we were dealing with. This is why I think that one incident and looking back with 2020 vision, hindsight, you know?

• 24:06Speaker 03

  It's likely that was also related to the UAP topic because had we known what was in that box, we would have, there would, we have a protocol for dealing with nuclear hazmat. And, and none of that was in place. And I still got exposed. So I think something in that box that.

• 24:25Jesse Michels?

  Were you carrying the box?

• 24:27Speaker 03

  No, we don't care. It's too heavy. It's, it's loaded on the craft.

• 24:30Jesse Michels?

  Loaded on the craft. You escorted it.

• 24:32Speaker 03

  We escorted it and we protect it with authority to use deadly force.

• 24:36Jesse Michels?

  And it was emitting that much radiological energy?

• 24:39Speaker 03

  I think it got turned on at some point, which is another interesting thing. Like, how did it come on while we were in air? Like, it turned on or turned off, or there was some level of fallout? I really don't know.

• 24:52Jesse Michels?

  What makes you think that it was a UAP or UFO and not like an electromagnetic pulse? Like some of these exotic weaponry that emit radiological energy?

• 25:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, EMPs are different. A lot of the HBMs are safe to be around. You're not, you're not gonna get high doses of gamma radiation by exposing yourself to an EMP. But I would just say, let's not get too much into this night and this mission without getting into trouble. But I'll just tell you that the, I don't blame the Air Force or anyone for how that was handled. Except, with the exception of the fact of seeking medical treatment afterwards, I couldn't talk about what had happened. So therefore, the causation was really difficult for doctors to, to like, to come up with. There was, there was symptomology without causation.

• 25:45Speaker 03

  And I was treated for things that weren't necessarily consistent with radiation poisoning. And I healed up from it.

• 25:54Jesse Michels?

  What were all of the symptoms that you experienced?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  So, like, I ended. Now, I mean, I have a heart murmur that I never had before.

• 26:00Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 26:00Speaker 03

  Okay, so my heart's messed up. Uh, again, I lost all the hair on my body. I look like just a albino lizard. Dude, like, no pubic hair, no eyebrows, no nose hair.

• 26:10Jesse Michels?

  Damn.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Which I wish was still the case, but whatever.

• 26:13Jesse Michels?

  So one benefit.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, one benefit. No ear hair, no nose hair.

• 26:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Um, I had rashes. Uh, my immune system seems compromised in some way that I can't explain. I, I just have random uh, autoimmune disorders. And, and so this was where Gary has come in handy is that he's reviewed my medical records and we're trying to make sense of twenty years of things that have happened. And how it, how, more so like, you know, forget the past, like moving forward. My concern is that there's some, you know, hidden gremlin that's gonna show up later in life and we're gonna be way behind on how to deal with, you know, cancer or whatever. I hate to throw that term around.

• 26:54Jesse Michels?

  Knock on wood, man.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, so, um, but, so that incident, just to get back to the subject.

• 27:01Jesse Michels?

  Can I, can I ask you one more question about what happened? When Gary took a look at your, you know, physical chart and the symptoms, did he say they accorded with other UFO experiencers?

• 27:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:15Jesse Michels?

  He did?

• 27:15Speaker 03

  Specifically, what's the guy from Rendlesham Forest in nineteen eighty?

• 27:19Jesse Michels?

  John Burroughs.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  John Burroughs and Jim Penniston.

• 27:22Jesse Michels?

  John, John Burroughs, Jim Penniston.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Had, had similar symptoms that I did and had similar issues with his VA records as I did.

• 27:30Jesse Michels?

  So he also had scarring in his dorsal striatum. He had scarring in his caudate nucleus and patamen.

• 27:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:37Jesse Michels?

  Did you have that?

• 27:38Speaker 03

  I haven't, I still have to get my comprehensive MRIs. Like, I haven't had a brain MRI that's revealed that.

• 27:44Jesse Michels?

  But I, but I do know he had a heart issue.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, we have the same heart issue.

• 27:48Jesse Michels?

  Oh, wow, yeah.

• 27:48Speaker 03

  It didn't exist before in either of us. That was the one thing that Gary shared. And it was. You know, similar similar situation with the records, but.

• 28:00Jesse Michels?

  And for for context for for people, the Rendlesham Forest incident was, I think, nineteen eighty.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:04Jesse Michels?

  Right, it was Suffolk, Royal Air Force, Bentwaters, and it was, you had Jim Peniston, Burrows, all all these guys who were. They saw this like light in the forest.

• 28:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, dude, that one incident, this is, we were talking earlier about how things get lost over time. In this environment, how keyed up we are right now for proof, and there's a lot of attention on this. If that incident, if Bentwaters happened today or tomorrow, case would be closed. Like, that single incident has all the proof and evidence that you need that this thing is real. From a public perspective, from a firsthand witness, from a government response and cover up. Like, it's there, it's a closed book.

• 28:46Jesse Michels?

  Lord Lord Norton, who is the head of the Naval Fleet for for the entire UK.

• 28:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:52Jesse Michels?

  Saying that this, you know, was it was a thing, this this happened.

• 28:55Speaker 06

  And it simply isn't any good. Ministers and the Ministry of Defence in particular, saying that nothing that took place that December night in Suffolk is of defence interest, it simply isn't true.

• 29:09Jesse Michels?

  And you had Colonel Charles Halt as well do do an investigation afterwards, and everything checked.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  No, OSI shows up in plane, HVT escort teams show up, haul everything away, people are sworn to secrecy, people are are drugged during interrogation, post interrogation of the, I mean.

• 29:28Jesse Michels?

  They're they're given truth serum, they're given sodium pentathol. So that they basically give like a an extremely explicit readout of what actually occurred. And that itself didn't take place in a vacuum. You have a great book called UFOs and Nukes by a guy named Robert Hastings. Hundred and sixty seven ICBM security personnel, radar operators, guys that work at these nuclear bases across the United States, and in some cases, they're joint nuclear bases in in UK and other places. And they all experienced these things, these these orbs, discs, plasma balls, crazy sorts of things. In certain cases, they claim to have boarded crafts.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  If anybody. If anybody out there wants a good starting point, to to take an on-ramp into this subject matter, I recommend going to the, what was called the citizens hearings in 2013. It's on YouTube. It's a, it's a full week of what's essentially a mock congressional hearing, where they brought in, there's over 20 hours of testimony over five days. Um, at that time, everyone from academia, government, military, enthusiasts, all, all those areas that have expertise and experiences documented. And they come and they testify in a very professional, formal setting,

• 30:50Speaker 03

  before, I think, uh, former and current congressional members. And they lay it all out. It's the whole history and, um, Bentwater's incident is covered in there. Something about that is irritating because it's like, okay, where are all the whistleblowers? Let's wait until they come out. Like, no.

• 31:09Jesse Michels?

  They've come out.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  They have come out. Like, take the time, if, if you want to form a vehement argument that's anti-whatever this subject is, put in the work to go look, like, like Ross's book, In Plain Sight. There's so much that's already in plain sight.

• 31:24Jesse Michels?

  It's in plain sight. It's in plain sight. Jake, have you retrieved a non-human craft?

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Yes, I have.

• 31:31Jesse Michels?

  Okay, let's get into that.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  All right.

• 31:33Jesse Michels?

  What's the story behind that?

• 31:34Speaker 03

  Um, man, so, here we go. So after 9/11,

• 31:41Speaker 03

  I went back to California and I began, uh, going to work on the next chapter of my life, which is working as a contractor for the broader intelligence, uh, community. And so, uh, everyone else after 9/11 was looking east with vengeance and the special operations community went crazy, which kind of served as like the perfect distraction for me and my work, because nobody was looking domestically, nobody was looking out west. And we continued to do our work out here and I, I quite literally took a left turn at Albuquerque, to quote Bugs Bunny.

• 32:16Speaker 07

  I knew I should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  And, uh,

• 32:23Speaker 03

  Worked on, uh, we had a cover contract through the BIA, which is the Bureau of Indian Affairs, at a sovereign nation close to White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. And, um.

• 32:39Jesse Michels?

  And, and lest the audience be skeptical of this left turn into, you know, uh, Indian reservations, there's actually a long history of the American intelligence community's activity on Indian reservations. You actually, you can watch a really popular Netflix show right now called The Octopus Murders.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 32:57Jesse Michels?

  Which involves all sorts of activity with Wacken Hut, you know, private security contractor on Native American lands, and it's, it's a somewhat common thing, so.

• 33:06Speaker 03

  Well, it's a good place to go if, uh, you know, there's a lot of security and ambiguity there from a structure standpoint. And something important to understand is that the legitimacy is the best cover. This is something we say all the time. So if I'm, if I'm gonna put my public face or my, my structured face or my three-dimensional identity out there, it's gotta be legitimate work, and I spend most of my time doing that. So, um, I specialize in security and transportation, mostly in aeronautical operations, even more specifically helicopters. I'm basically a helicopter operations expert and security expert.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  So, uh, I stood up and got involved with, um, helicopter operating companies and held many contracts with the DOD, Department of Interior, um, State Department, and other, other local agencies as well. And through that work, we basically, although the majority of our time was spent doing the day-to-day work and keeping that business up and going, our real purpose was to make ourselves available for the call, let's say, or the calls that would come in. And we would be put to work on pro, on missions for the program.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  And because of my experience working as a red team member and already having the clearances and already having proved myself, I don't know how to say it other than, you know, certain individuals were passing my business card around. And it's a lot of work maintaining aptitude and currency and a variety of skills. And legitimate civilian licenses and things and credentials.

• 34:50Jesse Michels?

  What's what's your title at this point? Like, do you have a title? Are you a full kind of ghost?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a lot of things like so. I don't know how to answer that like.

• 35:00Jesse Michels?

  I mean, I mean, at this point with, you know, take a left turn to Albuquerque.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:04Jesse Michels?

  Dealing with the Department of Interior, what's your job title?

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Uh, Director of Operations for a helicopter company.

• 35:11Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:12Jesse Michels?

  Crazy.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:15Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I'm Director of Operations for a helicopter company.

• 35:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  I'm Program Director for Gracie Jiu Jitsu NorCal. I'm uh, I'm a flight instructor for law enforcement, for airborne law enforcement agency. Um, I held a lot of titles. I'm also, I'm the President of a corporation that has manufactures wheelchair, patented wheelchair parts for the Veterans Hospital. I service um, fitness centers on a number of key military bases. That if I named them, they'd make a lot of sense to you. So I'm a lot of different things.

• 35:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. You're like an Uber driver in LA, but way more badass.

• 36:00Speaker 03

  I like think I'm more badass than an Uber driver at this point. There are some badass Uber drivers, I don't know.

• 36:06Jesse Michels?

  The most insane multi-hype in it ever.

• 36:08Speaker 08

  But at this, so at this point, having all these different potential covers is what's actually serving you in what you're doing because you could you could be a flight instructor at this company, or you could be just like directing operations for some transportation.

• 36:22Jesse Michels?

  Can you say anything about the companies that you worked for in the context of these UFO crash Retrievals?

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Um, look, man, if you took two guesses, you'd get both of them right on the first try.

• 36:36Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  At the end of the day, like, I'm just a security and transportation guy, especially when it gets to the UAP subject. It's like, we did a lot of helicopter work and law enforcement and security work. It's not like they're like, like, we understand the idea of a paramedic sitting over here, uh, in an ambulance, waiting for a call who specializes in emergency medical response. It's like, we're not sitting there as a crash recovery team with our little CR patch on our chest and our little alien-like, uh, dice hanging from the rearview mirror of the helicopter. We're ready to roll when the alien phone rings. Crash, no. It's like, we're doing other shit and like, we're gonna go out and we do a lot of recovery. It's not just exotic craft. We recover all kinds of things.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  When a call would come in, typically it meant we were going out to what I call the Range, which is in the desert of California. And we would be there to support from a, a security and transportation standpoint, the operations out there. Uh, the Range was a giant playground for Department of Defense and its private aerospace partners for testing weapons technology, radar technology, uh, craft, experimental craft, and that craft's resilience to radar and weapons technology and vice versa. Um, it was during this work, uh, when, uh, um, I can talk, I'm here to talk about two different experiences with exotic craft that was non-human in origin.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Um, and it was during some of this time out on the Range when I had these experiences. First experience I'm gonna talk about is when we recovered an egg. And we just call it the egg, because that's what it was. It's like a giant white egg. Um, the night that this happened, we weren't expecting an egg. I wasn't briefed on an egg. Uh, when this happened, it was a surprise to everyone. I can tell you, within, uh, not only my leadership structure, which is most concerning when they're surprised, but also everyone around me on my team. Um,

• 38:55Speaker 03

  When this happened, we had to go, we, we altered our communication protocol. We altered our security protocol. And it was obvious to everyone that what we were dealing with was something extraordinary. Um, my job that night was as a helicopter pilot. I was not on the ground. I was called in to, uh, transport that egg via external load, what we call external load, or through a long line, which is 150 foot, sometimes 200 foot long line that hangs below the helicopter. It has a remote hook on it. That remote hook can be attached to hardware that secures the load. And then we fly that load away to a drop point.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  And from there, it goes wherever it's going to go on a secure transport. Did you see this egg? I saw it, absolutely. What did it look like? Um, it's probably 20 feet plus or minus, I don't know, uh, 10% from my point of view. You know, I was 150 feet from it, had a 150 foot long line that night, hovered right over it, hooked up to it. It looked like a giant. 20 feet longitudinally? Yeah, 20 feet longitudinally, spherical with a little bit of an asymmetrical, three-dimensional rounding shape to it. It's like a pearly white, like, uh, I don't know if it was wet or moist, but it wasn't like flat white, it was like pearly white. Granted, this is at, at night at this point.

• 40:23Speaker 03

  It was, uh, after civil twilight, so it's dark. Um, I'm flying under NVGs, but there was enough, uh, lunar illumination that I could see it with the naked eye. What's an NVG? A night vision goggle. So it's an enhanced omni-electronic, uh, system that, uh, takes into account, uh, IR light. But you could see it outside? I could see it, I could flip my goggles up and see it, flip my goggles down and see it. It was secured with. Nets, basically.

• 40:54Jesse Michels?

  It was secured with nets?

• 40:55Speaker 03

  Nets.

• 40:56Jesse Michels?

  And somebody

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Wrapped.

• 40:57Jesse Michels?

  Wrapped nets around it? Somebody on your team?

• 41:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, someone on the ground team.

• 41:02Jesse Michels?

  Wow, and did they sort of touch the craft while they were wrapping nets?

• 41:06Speaker 03

  The team there must have touched it, yeah.

• 41:10Jesse Michels?

  And did they experience any effects?

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Not that I know of. I didn't talk much. It was compartmentalization on steroids that night, so we didn't, I didn't debrief with the ground crew much. There's a few guys on the ground crew that we've talked to since.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  But a lot of the details of everyone's experience, you know, weren't shared necessarily.

• 41:34Jesse Michels?

  Any other core details about the craft, the weight, any symbology on it?

• 41:40Speaker 03

  No, I mean, it was smooth, seamless, no symbology. I could tell you it was less than 5,000 pounds because that was the capacity of my helicopter at that time. I don't remember exactly what it weighed. You know, when I, when we fly in to, to recover a load or to pick, and we use the term pick, which is I'm going to connect and haul something off no matter what it is. I get a briefing on the way in as to what my load is going to be. I get disclosed its approximate weight, dimensions, and then I get a hazmat disclosure as to whether or not there's any hazmat onboard or if there are any soles onboard, which is life forms.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  That night, there was no disclosure for hazmat or soles onboard, or what we call SOBs, soles onboard. And it was just an object and

• 42:34Speaker 03

  yeah, took it to a drop point, which was about 15 miles away and set it down very carefully and It was hauled off somewhere and that was the end of it.

• 42:48Jesse Michels?

  Why do you think it landed on a human flight testing range? I could see a skeptic in the audience saying, "Oh, awfully convenient"

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:56Jesse Michels?

  that you're landing right next to wherever you guys are operating.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, it wasn't next. It actually went off the range, which was added to part of our challenge. And I can't tell you where it landed, but it was tracked and intercepted over the range. And by the time it finally interfaced with the ground, it was off the playground, which complicated our recovery.

• 43:17Jesse Michels?

  Would another possible answer to that be that UAPs are attracted to sensitive military sites?

• 43:23Speaker 03

  We know exactly what they're attracted to and we...

• 43:31Speaker 03

  We intentionally attract them. And when I say "we," anyone that's out playing around with this kind of stuff knows that there are things that they are attracted to. Whether or not that was intentional, that was the primary objective that night, I don't know. I can tell you that that night there was another team present that I know of that deals with the summoning component of data collection. And that team's intention usually is or known to be associated with summoning or getting a UAP or non-human craft to show up.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Question from the audience?

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Was the egg sitting upright when you pulled up on it?

• 44:22Speaker 03

  Oh, it was flat. Yeah, horizontal.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  Did it appear like it crashed or did it land and...

• 44:29Speaker 03

  It didn't look messed up to me and there was no disturbed earth around it. It's not like it toe-picked in or like, you know, dug in, yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  I guess just like...

• 44:41Speaker 02

  I don't know, when I'm hearing the story, a big giant 20-foot egg, how do you know that's not human intelligence?

• 44:48Speaker 03

  Okay, that's a great question. So, I've got,

• 44:53Speaker 03

  I've got three different reasons or criteria for determining that it was in HI. One, relying on myself as an expert of not only what flies around in our skies, but even at the extreme of advanced technologies and capabilities within the US government at the highest level in private industry and seeing those things fly around and operate at the range all the time. And this is why it was kind of a process for me up until very shortly after the egg. Because still, the night of the egg is just like you get called in, everyone's a little nervous, but it's so real when you look at it. It's like, it's not like in the background you're hearing,

• 45:38Speaker 03

  "Ohhhhh", and there's this light from heaven. Like, you grew up on movies. It's like, this is an epic moment. Where's the crescendo? It's like, no, it's just flying a helicopter, Kamaa Ridge, there's an egg sitting there and dude's sitting around on the ground flashing you, calling you in while you're flying your hook. I'm like, where's like, where's all the intensity? It's like, it's so blatant and in your face and so real, it can almost, it doesn't register as exciting, you know, in that format. Now, I'm sure the experience of running into an alien in your bedroom is not that way, but I've never had that experience, so I don't know. But what I'm getting at is, you know, for me, it was a process up to there

• 46:19Speaker 03

  because so many things we see in the sky out at the range are fantastical. It's like, you see things change shape, change color, come in.

• 46:31Speaker 03

  To sight, go out of sight, travel at extreme speeds, appear to go and come from the earth or the mountain or ridge. Um, and you just assume most of the time that what you're seeing is our own advanced tech or cloaking systems or projections or uh, light artifacts of weapon systems. Um, and then you've just got from, you know, just from being outside at night in the desert, which I could invite anyone to go spend some time at night, just looking up with your dumb human eyeballs and you're gonna see some weird stuff. So I, we've seen a lot of stuff and that night, number one, it was not expected. So if it was human, um, there would have been a much different response to it.

• 47:14Speaker 03

  Um, there would have been some expectation that what we were working that on that night may have, may have not responded well to the radar that was being thrown at it and we would have expected a crash and it was like, okay, we would have been trained on how to deal with that. No one was trained on how to do with that and everybody acted really weird. So then there's that localized response that was anomalous. Um, and if there's any human on earth that's gonna know what that is and how to deal with it, it would have been me and my team. And we didn't know. There's no one else of like, oh shit, I need to call in the specialized team. Look behind me, I see a picture of myself, like that's it. Okay? So like, I'm the guy. Subsequent to that, it was also confirmed to me by ranking members of the UAP task

• 47:59Speaker 03

  force that that is exactly what we ran into that night, that that was NHI and they, they told me bluntly that yes, that is a non-human anomalous craft. Um, the last or the third reason, reasoning I'll give you is that since we've left the program and reorganized and are now working with Arrow, I can make the egg show up and we have, and we've demonstrated it post-program and we did it in August.

• 48:28Speaker 08

  Oh my god.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  In broad daylight.

• 48:31Speaker 08

  Really?

• 48:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:32Speaker 08

  So you can summon that?

• 48:34Speaker 03

  Yes, we can summon the egg.

• 48:36Jesse Michels?

  That is absurd.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  It seems absurd, but we've tracked it in broad daylight, the egg, moving at 10,000 miles per hour. So based on range. And it comes when we've, at a precise timing, when we've asked for. We're doing demonstrations for the new director of Arrow. They're fully privy, they've seen our videos, they've seen our data and our report.

• 48:59Jesse Michels?

  And Arrow is the all-domain anomaly resolution.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  Resolutions office, yeah. We have classes of UAP. There's a number of classes and categories that we've.

• 49:09Jesse Michels?

  How many?

• 49:10Speaker 03

  Uh, more than eight.

• 49:12Jesse Michels?

  Do you know all of them?

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 49:14Jesse Michels?

  Can you list them?

• 49:15Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Maybe soon we can.

• 49:19Jesse Michels?

  Going back to the retrieval. So I'm saying this and not you because you don't want to, you know, reveal anything classified. I've done deep dives on American anti-gravity research.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:30Jesse Michels?

  Exotic electromagnetic propulsion. And I even just interviewed the former deputy CTO of Northrop Grumman, who was actually part of the UAP task force, the Army representative, a guy named Carl Nell. And I said, you know, is any of this crazy UFO stuff investable or actionable? We were speaking to a room full of entrepreneurs. And he said, go just watch Jesse's video on Thomas Townsend Brown.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 49:56Jesse Michels?

  And so, to me, that is as much confirmation as we're ever probably going to get for a little bit at least on the idea that we do have exotic propulsion, human craft in our possession. So is there anything else that gives you conviction?

• 50:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, let me, let me go into that. So let me go into the analysis that was presented to Arrow and why they're, why they consider it NHI. So, best way to explain this. We set out specifically to summon the egg and record, gather sensor data on the egg. At the moment, we expected or elicited the egg.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  It shows up, moving so fast, we couldn't see with the naked eye. Another object also showed up at that time that our, um, our, our guy operating our OP, our, our top observer, saw this object, it burnt the sensor in his camera. And we had another camera luckily that was also recording. But, um, where the first object showed up, the sensor was damaged. Behind that, the egg flies by, um, in dead silence, makes a turn and comes around in to land and disappears behind the house. So, that wasn't done, when we did that most recent exercise, that wasn't done on the range in coordination with the DOD or any private partners.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  It was done with me and the team we've assembled since then. And with, we have all the tools and talents and techniques that we did in the legacy program and now we're doing them on our own.

• 51:40Jesse Michels?

  And when you say legacy program, legacy UFO program?

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe, you know, legacy is kind of a loaded term, but, um, I would say in everyone's prior scope of work and career fields, they've worked, uh, they've worked in this capacity and have had these experiences and now, but doing it, um, on the payroll and under the NDA obligations of the federal government, private partners. A lot of us have left those, those jobs. I'm no longer doing that work. I'm no longer connected in the same way I wa- I was. And since then, we've formed our own organization and we have all the tools and talent that,

• 52:24Speaker 03

  um, we had back then, but we have it in a private venture and we're doing our own exploration.

• 52:32Jesse Michels?

  And who's "we"?

• 52:33Speaker 03

  "We" is, uh, Skywatcher Technologies is a company we formed.

• 52:37Jesse Michels?

  What you're basically saying at a fundamental level is I think one of the biggest critiques of the UFO phenomena is that it's completely ephemeral. And you're saying it's actually repeatable? Cause everybody's, oh, science needs to be repeatable.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  No, it's repeatable and it's like, knock, wrap your knuckles on it. Like some of the stuff is like, I'm not kidding, like a physical craft.

• 52:56Jesse Michels?

  Every time I drop this pen, it's gonna, you know, hit the ground. And what you're saying is that every time you do these sort of summoning techniques and then there's like a, a more physical version. Luis Elizondo, whistleblower who was involved in the OSAT program, writes in his book that they're contemplating baiting UFOs with nuclear materials. So that's something that's kind of open source and in public record.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  It's not all tangible, drop the pin, it hits the ground. That's why there are eight or more classes of UAP in our work. Because it ranges from the supernatural, like, ground-based paranormal phenomenon to what looks like objects in the sky. And Gary Nolan, he's on our team. He's been there in the desert when we've summoned the egg.

• 53:40Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  In broad daylight.

• 53:42Jesse Michels?

  So you brought Gary Nolan out?

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's part of our new team.

• 53:45Jesse Michels?

  So a Nobel-nominated Stanford professor has seen this occur. He's borne witness to this.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  He didn't see it with his own eyes, because no one did, it was moving too fast. But he's seen the report and our sensor data afterwards. All this information that I'm giving you, including our reports, has all been given to Arrow, and we can get into that. But this incident and the future incidents that have happened that we're going to talk about, you know, in the last five years, all of this has been disclosed to, you know, I've spent a lot of time speaking. One thing I wanted to do was to do this the right way, was to give our institutions and our authorities a chance to hear this stuff first, and to reconcile it, and to do the right thing with it, and to primarily give me guidance on what to do with it moving forward.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  So, you know, everything I'm telling you and more has been shared with Congress in a SCIF, in a top-secret TSCI

• 54:46Speaker 03

  environment, where I've given testimony.

• 54:48Jesse Michels?

  Real quick, a SCIF is a secure compartmentalized information facility. Basically a Faraday cage.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:54Jesse Michels?

  No signals in or out.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  No.

• 54:57Jesse Michels?

  And then TSCI is top-secret compartmentalized information?

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, secure compartment, yes. And what's funny, I don't, I mean, I'm a kid from the 70s, but if you remember the show Mark from Orc, Mark and Mindy? Robin Williams was one of his first roles. He wore the suspenders. The story goes, and they show it in the preview of that show, and it's part of every show, is this white egg. He flew to Earth in this white egg. And at night, I think he would like go to sleep in this egg, and she'd be like, "Goodnight," and he'd go be like, "Nanu nanu." And he'd go sleep in this egg, and I'm like, "Bro." Like, how much of our culture is, like, is that, did someone know?

• 55:35Jesse Michels?

  Well, the egg as a form has shown up a few times in quote-unquote ufology. You have Lonnie Zamora, Socorro, New Mexico, 1964, where he's this police officer. He sees this egg actually land, sees burnt vegetation in the area. James Fox made this amazing movie called Moment of Contact. Everybody in this little town in Brazil reports seeing an egg landing. And it seems to be emitting this sort of like ammonia-like thing and even seems to kill a doctor. It's pretty crazy. So the egg thing does show up.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  That's one thing I just wanted to mention, like, sometimes I feel like truth is actually stranger than fiction. And a lot of times, like, these tales, the stories are influenced by something we've seen in real life or heard about or sounded too crazy to actually believe. And one thing I've been looking at in this space is the commonalities between what people are seeing. And you just described there being eight or more different types of UAPs. And the egg is something we've seen throughout history and seen throughout multiple sightings.

• 56:39Speaker 09

  Glowing eggs. Eggs. Another egg-shaped object. Egg. Egg. Egg. The egg. The cosmic egg. Big. Egg. Egg. Egg.

• 56:47Jesse Michels?

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• 58:16Speaker 02

  Okay, so can you help me bridge the gap between this summoning that you're describing? And you've used the term "we", and then your crash retrieval endeavors? And I'm having trouble understanding

• 58:33Speaker 03

  That's a really good point.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  how a helicopter pilot is also doing this other thing and what that correlation is.

• 58:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, so within the 10-plus years since I first retrieved a craft in non-human origin, where I was just serving as a dumb helicopter pilot, like, what the hell is going on? A lot has happened since then. I mean, we've had the disclosure movement kick off. But other recoveries that we could talk about were very emotional to me because there was a consciousness component to that. And I felt, I felt that there was something conscious about the craft during the recovery process that had tapped into me and was disruptive in the most beautiful way in my ability to operate a helicopter and almost led to me punching this craft off

• 59:23Speaker 03

  and creating a whole nother crash site, like, in between where I picked it up and dropped it off.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  What is this instance?

• 59:29Speaker 03

  Um, this is the other one I can talk about called the Eight Gone, which is basically a disc, a flying disc with eight individual sections when viewed from above. And on this particular night, I got my normal readout for the load, and this time it included a hazmat disclosure for biologics. So that typically meant, you know, souls onboard is a disclosure I would get if there were living bodies, humans.

• 1:00:03Speaker 03

  Um.

• 1:00:03Jesse Michels?

  Who's who's giving that readout as to whether there are bodies?

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  Our guys on the ground. So the guys that manifest, and they don't say ba- bodies, they just say, uh, hazmat.

• 1:00:12Jesse Michels?

  Have you ever seen a body?

• 1:00:14Speaker 03

  Not, I've never seen an alien body. I've seen plenty of human bodies and recovered human bodies in the same way, and it's a standard disclosure. So when I was flying in, I thought that's what I was dealing with. It's like, oh shit. Pilot crashed on the range and we're hauling off, you know, body parts.

• 1:00:31Jesse Michels?

  Your your colleagues have seen bu- bodies, non-human intelligence bodies?

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  You'd have to ask them.

• 1:00:37Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:00:39Jesse Michels?

  And so in this case, you see this eight-gone craft, this kind of octagon shape?

• 1:00:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, as I'm flying towards it, I get the readout on what it is and, um, I was trained as a pilot a long time ago and the last 20 years, that's, I've served more as a as a pilot than I have as a a ground crew member or in any other capacities. And the primary thing I've done is is been a helicopter air operations expert. So on most of these missions, I'm working from the cockpit of the helicopter. And so the ground crew is a separate crew that gets dispatched and they're dealing with hazmat, security, containment, uh, setting up a perimeter and an entry control point and observation, like they're doing all that. I sit back at a separate location. I get GPS coordinates at the very last second.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  I get dispatched, I go there and then, uh, en route from very short range, out maybe five minutes out, I get read a description of what it is I'm picking up. This night, I get an approximate size and dimension and then I get negative souls on board and a hazmat disclosure, uh, for biologics, for biological hazmat. So I'm like, oh, great, somebody crashed, someone's dead. All right. So as I'm getting close to this craft.

• 1:01:52Jesse Michels?

  How big is the craft?

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Again, it's not that big, probably 25, 30 feet, but it's like a, it's like a disc, this, maybe the size of this. Concrete slab here, like this one's dark gray, like a dark matte gray or black. From what I could tell, I was getting very little light signature off of just the hard angles of the of the sections, but the eight sections, like the intersection between the spine and then some of the texture that existed in those panels in between. And still, like, there's nothing about this inherently that it's like that could be one of our crafts. Where, where is this by the way? California desert. Okay, similar location? Similar, yeah, very similar.

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  And, um, but as I'm flying and I get closer to this craft.

• 1:02:48Speaker 03

  It's, well, first of all, it's quiet.

• 1:02:54Speaker 03

  When I say quiet, it was quiet on the radios at that time. But my mind wasn't quiet. I start having this very emotional experience.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  It's almost, man, I haven't explained it this way before, but it's like when you feel like you're about to throw up, but you're not sure. You're like, am I gonna throw up? Oh, no, I'm good. I'm like, no, it's gonna happen. Like, it was like that, but not a nausea, it was like an emotional escalation that started inside of me that seemed completely foreign. And the closer I got to the object, the more emotional I got. Sad or ominous or? How would you describe it? It was, it was, it was beautiful. It was a beautiful feeling. Fuck, but it's so weird. It's like that, uh, it's like that minor chord as a kid. It's like that sad beauty.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  It's like a first, a minor third and a fifth. It was beautiful, but there was a sadness to it. Did it communicate anything?

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  I didn't get a message other than like, I just felt like I was in the presence of my mother. It was like a feminine energy that was loving and sad and I don't know what it was, but the closer I got, the more intense it got. I hooked up as I'm flying back to the drop site, I'm like completely overwhelmed. I'm like bawling my eyes out, flying a helicopter at night, like trying not to run into mountains and shit. And I'm like, oh my God, this is not good. And I'm like, am I? I don't, and I didn't want to tell anyone about this because I'm like, then I'm not fit to fly.

• 1:04:43Speaker 03

  And I'm like, am I stressed? Am I sleep deprived with too much cortisol, estrogen pumping through my veins? You know, what's going on? And then as I get close, I make it there, I safely get it popped off and then as I fly away, it goes away.

• 1:04:57Speaker 08

  I just want to paint the picture for people here because it's like you're flying a helicopter at night. Using night vision, you have no, you're like in pretty intense terrain.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:08Speaker 08

  You're carrying something that is like messing with your consciousness as you're doing one of the hardest, you're flying one of the hardest objects ever made.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Speaker 08

  Um, like, have you, had you ever been in a situation where you had something interfere with you on a conscious? Like, it doesn't feel like a very common experience.

• 1:05:25Speaker 03

  I think that's what was most disturbing to me is being someone who prides themselves on like comfort and chaos. Like, I've had every other thing try and fuck with me while I'm flying at night, like so much distraction, intensity, and life or death situations, and I'm cool with it, but this messed me up, man. It messed me up. And there was a psionics team working that night. And so I don't know whether, you know, it's one of two things, like either there was there was something with a very

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  powerful talent inside of that thing that was connecting its soul or spirit to me as I was flying, or one of the psionic assets.

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  Got its consciousness trapped in that thing and somehow was communicating through me.

• 1:06:19Jesse Michels?

  And so what what are psionic assets?

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Um, when we look at collecting data, one of the areas that we look to collect data is through a psionic asset, which is an individual who's trained in remote viewing, um, psychic abilities, telekinesis, that type of thing, which is basically through a number of different, um, protocols can transition into a place where they are highly sensitive to their environment from, from the point of view of consciousness through a consciousness field. And that is not a woo woo topic. I know I'm just throwing it in, but it's so matter of fact to me that it's the same as saying night vision goggles, like it's there, we use it.

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  And it's worked both on the, it's used both on the summoning side and the data collection side.

• 1:07:09Jesse Michels?

  So you're saying humans summon these UAPs?

• 1:07:12Speaker 03

  There are two types of summoning that can be done that we've proven works and we're still working with. Uh, there's machine-based summoning systems and there's man-based summoning systems. Uh, machine-based summoning systems are, uh, without going into details are signals, um, and, uh, energy systems that can be turned on or activated, uh, that summon UAP activity or that UAP, UAP are attracted to. And I say again, remembering what UAP means, it's a very broad term. It's, uh, unidentified anomalous phenomenon.

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  So unidentified anomalous shit shows up. That's a pretty broad category. Now, in order to be effective at serving as a PA, you could think of consciousness as a field. Don't think of it as this superficial woo woo thing, like it's literally like, like the world wide web. It's like the internet. Um, it's always there. We can't see it. It's full of in information and exciting things, but. Point to it. I don't see it here. Yep. Right? So where is it? You have to be able to tap into it. You need something like a wifi signal to get there. So individuals that have this gift are people that have been trained and have the talent to serve as a wifi

• 1:08:35Speaker 03

  to tap into the consciousness field where everything in the universe seems to exist or have its presence. And once you can do that, now you're in an environment where while we're having other multiple forms of sensory data in place, if a UAP shows up, is it registering in the consciousness field that our PA asset is connected to through the wifi? And the wifi is this process of getting into mindful meditation. So two things are happening in that process or protocol of serving as a PA. Lowering intellect, increasing intuition, and then reintroducing intellect at a higher level as an observer, not as a driver. How do you do that?

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  Well, you're either born with a gift or you go through, you spend thirty years as a Shaolin monk and you figure out how to do it the hard way. There are easier ways, there are cheats, and some of the cheats that have been experimented with are things that have not fared well for those involved in the program, including children, and I'll talk about them. So how do we, how do we heighten intuition? Well, you do it through stress inoculation. You do it through triggering flight or, or fight or flight uh biology systems in our bodies. Some of the most powerful things you can do is trigger that on. Like if it ain't broke, don't fix it, don't reinvent the wheel. The human mind and body is already something so spectacular, we don't understand it.

• 1:10:04Speaker 03

  I don't know why it works, but if you can trigger flight or fight, all these things get activated and intuition does. So stress inoculation is one. You gotta hijack the amygdala and boom, you put someone there. You need to do that to heighten intuition while subduing intellect. How do you do that? You subdue the intellect by disassociation. So there are chemical ways to uh induce disassociation. There are uh more um.

• 1:10:36Speaker 03

  proactive ways that you could do yourself like through meditation. But all in all, those are the two things you do to get into that state. Well, kids are naturally way more visceral in both of those things. They're naturally more intuitive, their intellect is lower. There is one more thing that you have to do to even enter that. And that deals with the other eye instinct. So your instincts have to be satisfied at this time. So that just means you have to be comfortable. Can't be hungry, can't be horny, can't be tired, can't be worried about your your survival. You can't be cold, you can't be hot. So all that has to be taken care of. So the limbic part of your brain is not like freaking out while the prefunal cortex, whatever part of the brain it is that's

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  more responsible for the hardware that helps you connect to the to the consciousness internet is. So satisfy the instinct, heighten the intellect or suppress the intellect, heighten the intuition. Add back in the intellect at a high level, boom, you're in it. Now, there's another way that that we do, and that's through hardware. So you could do software, chemical drugs to in order to get a stress inoculation, the disassociation. Or you can do hardware. Um, one of the guys on our team um has made a breakthrough recently and uses a system which is basically um a non intrusive uh

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  ultrasound system that can target the brain and induce or at least take a lot of the edge and the struggle out of transitioning into that state. And so he's he's one of the guys that works in our new organization that is assisting us with reproducing and demonstrating all of this stuff that has gone on over the decades in the program that comes with all this baggage and secrecy and stuff. And we're trying to leave all that behind and do it now in this uh in this clean and free environment where we have autonomy as a private organization working in partnership with government organizations and

• 1:12:42Speaker 03

  Educational institutions to put this out there once and for all. And, you know, in that effort, we feel this is a much more humane way. And everyone that works with us is doing so on a volunteer basis. But how the ultrasound works is it can target, it can get through the skull and it can target parts of the brain to help you transition out of intellect and into your intuition. And the most of the experimentation that is done and the testing that is done in order to find the people that can serve in this role is done through a random number generator. So he runs a random number generator program and then has the subject sit there and hopefully I'm not butchering this whole process of how he tests it.

• 1:13:27Speaker 03

  But has the subject then has the ultrasound equipment run into the brain. The consciousness is activated through lowering intuition, heightening intuition and lowering intellect. And now the individual can impose its will on this random number generator that's running in a computer and can cause the number to move up if he wants or causes it to move down.

• 1:13:49Jesse Michels?

  And context for the audience, a random number generator is basically a graphical interface that shows ones and zeros.

• 1:13:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Jesse Michels?

  It's a binary computer and it's tied to something that is conventionally thought of as random in quantum mechanics. So radioactive isotope decay, a photon bouncing around a little box. And so it's a perfect digital coin flip. Over a long enough time scale, you should expect the same amount of ones and zeros with maybe a small standard deviation.

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Jesse Michels?

  And if you're saying that through stress inoculation and dissociation or through this hardware technique, somebody can in a statistically significant way affect that, it's called a Z score in this random event generator. So you get more ones or more zeros. You're basically saying that that person has more ability to render their reality and that more of a mind over matter effect.

• 1:14:40Speaker 03

  Through consciousness, they can affect reality of that.

• 1:14:42Jesse Michels?

  Which is nuts.

• 1:14:43Speaker 03

  And here's the crazy thing, even if they in that test, because zero or flat line or the middle line is the reality, right? So even if someone could get it to deviate the most miniscule number. Any deviation is infinitely mind blowing because because it's that good of a test. Because there should be no deviation. So any deviation should be good. And what happens is crazy because as it starts, once the subject looks over realizes they're being successful. They're like, oh shit, I'm moving the thing. Then it's a brrr and it drops back down and they gotta go back into it. And then you'll see the spike, the trend, the vector of the trend over the report moves up and down.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  And when they kind of come out of it, realize they're moving it, it goes back down. And then it almost becomes exponential. They just, they blast it out of proportion.

• 1:15:35Jesse Michels?

  A close friend and mentor of mine used to specialize in this experiment at Princeton. Their parapsychology lab or the, the, the pair lab where they studied all sorts of anomalous, you know, stuff. And he would call this the rebound effect. And you can analogize it with, you know, you're, uh, playing basketball and you're making a bunch of shots or whatever. And then all of a sudden you become, you know, conscious of it. And then you have this snapback effect and it's in life generally. People have these sort of upward momentum streaks and then they come, you know, crashing down. And there's always this sort of local mean reversion.

• 1:16:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:08Jesse Michels?

  And so it's, it's wild to see that actually exemplified in the form of an experiment.

• 1:16:12Speaker 03

  So as fun as that is, and we could sit here and talk about that all day and just take people off.

• 1:16:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  Like there's a real practical application for that. So I'm just saying that to say like, this is a real thing. What we do, you put someone in out there that's trained to do that and you support them with the right support system and environment. And then you're also out there with the right data collection equipment. So not only monitor their experience to make sure they're self and health or safe and healthy and not getting hurt. But you're also correlating it to your other measure. It's a measuring device for us. That's what this whole crazy thing about taking a psionic asset, putting them in our, our work suite, which is like a Faraday cage. Um, and getting them involved is just to add a sixth, seventh, eighth piece of equipment. So when this, when this phenomenon shows up, does the random number generator in here move?

• 1:17:01Speaker 03

  When it also shows up on IR over our radar? So it's not like we're going off the deep end. Our whole world is all about psionics and remote viewing. It's not.

• 1:17:13Jesse Michels?

  No, it's literally correlating with an observable. You're getting on another and multi sensory corroboration is what you're looking for in any sort of scientific process.

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  And it works the other way. Sometimes the intent is to have the psionic assets summon the phenomenon and the rest of the equipment is turned down and then because we want to be able to isolate where we're having successes. So they they ramp up, they activate, they summon, they invite it in, and then the rest of the equipment becomes measuring for their for their summoning effort. And so, yeah.

• 1:17:47Jesse Michels?

  So it it sounds like the US government has used kids as psionic assets. And does that bother you at all?

• 1:17:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that bothers me. Yeah, it does. It does bother me.

• 1:18:00Jesse Michels?

  Do you have a model of what these crafts are and what's inside of them?

• 1:18:04Speaker 03

  Well, interestingly enough, this particular craft, the Aegon, is exactly what Michael Herrera reports to have seen in Indonesia.

• 1:18:16Jesse Michels?

  That's the one time I've ever heard this brought up, that account. And it's it's a it's it's matte black, like you described. He calls it phantom black. And he says it has eight, you know, like an octagonal shape.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I heard Michael Herrera's story in Washington DC. There was a in 2023, I believe, there was a whistleblower conference shortly after the whistleblower protection hack got activated. And then there was this at the National Press Club hosted by Stephen Greer. There were several whistleblowers that had decided to come forward in that environment and share their stories. So we were actually sent there on behalf of our employer to look for whistleblowers that we were trying to basically report to the FBI

• 1:19:11Speaker 03

  and get arrested. Because at that time, I was in this weird place between becoming a whistleblower or

• 1:19:20Speaker 03

  rounding up the whistleblowers and shutting them up because there are good reasons and bad reasons to be a whistleblower and so

• 1:19:29Jesse Michels?

  so you are at this press event red teaming basically

• 1:19:32Speaker 03

  exactly

• 1:19:33Jesse Michels?

  you are trying to maybe gather intel on people who might become a liability for the program and you hear Michael Herrera give his testimony

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  and I wasn't prepared for that so

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  it's I'm sorry because you had already seen the Aegon

• 1:19:46Speaker 03

  yes

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  and then he talked to us what you had experienced firsthand and then

• 1:19:50Speaker 03

  and he's getting up there and everyone's like this guy's full of shit

• 1:19:53Jesse Michels?

  well he was his was the craziest testimony from that and so basically this guy is saying in 2009 he's deployed with his marine unit to the Philippines then a small part of that marine unit like eight or nine people get actually moved off to Indonesia is this right

• 1:20:09Speaker 03

  yes

• 1:20:10Jesse Michels?

  and there's a seven Richter scale earthquake that had just occurred in the area so it's a disaster zone

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  this is good we're gonna want to go over this whole thing keep going

• 1:20:19Jesse Michels?

  and he sees this Aegon octagon shaped craft matte black he describes it as like blacker than black and it's hovering above the treetops and his unit starts to close in because he's like what what is this thing and there's a there's a there's a humming sound around it so not a traditional engine

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  yeah

• 1:20:37Jesse Michels?

  and as they're sort of moving towards it what he describes as this elite possibly Department of Energy paramilitary unit with technical gear out the wazoo comes and apprehends he and his team and they have bioscaners and they have all sorts of technical gear they're threatening this team of Marines and they're saying it's easy to get lost in the jungle right

• 1:21:02Speaker 03

  yeah

• 1:21:03Speaker 10

  they were actually two of the guys um we're actually talking about either hey should we smoke these guys right now you know that's what they kept saying it was kind of feeding more into the fear at that point because again I don't know who these guys are I know they had American gear they had American sidearms as well um If these guys have actually taken off like we have, and then why they're going against people like us, and even willing to kill servicemen who just even stumbled onto this, it just blows my mind and is very sick.

• 1:21:30Jesse Michels?

  And so Michael Herrera comes back to the US. He's shocked. He actually does a little bit of press around this because he's like, this is ridiculous that this is being hid to the American public. And then somebody backchannels to him from the program and says, actually, the reason that that elite squad was there, and they were there next to that craft, is because they were transferring psionic assets for the program. And so this was a human trafficking operation where they were taking people, putting them in pods, loading them onto these craft, and then that craft was taking them back to the US for use.

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  We backchanneled it. That was us. We backchanneled that.

• 1:22:13Jesse Michels?

  That was you?

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  That was me.

• 1:22:14Jesse Michels?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:22:15Speaker 03

  So when that happened, we were able to corroborate at least three key things. One, that those type of paramilitary units do exist because guys from our group get recruited and offer jobs to go exercise our skills elsewhere, outside the US. I have never done it. I've never been part of those teams. The other thing is the description of the craft is exactly what I had seen before and my team had seen before. Except he claimed this one was like 300 feet in diameter. Never seen one that big. The other thing were the containers. He described the containers at the time as being used for transporting drugs.

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  He was just making, speculating. He wasn't lying, but he assumed that they were there must have been transporting drugs because he saw these units on the roofs. Well, those units were, so those units that they used are consistent with the workstations we use when we're out on the range. There are many split HVAC systems that are used up there because, as I explained, that's where we have our data observation team in those. And most of the time, those are the Faraday cages for the psionic assets. We also know that

• 1:23:33Speaker 03

  That there are operations Oconus outside the continental United States where prospecting for psionic assets takes place and they're highly coveted. And the interesting thing is, is I hear in those programs that there's something valuable about the life experience in third world countries. In that, it seems as though people that live a simpler life and are outdoors more and have less contaminants in their food and their drugs and in their culture seem to be a little bit better at disassociating and heightening their intuition. And they come willingly because of the economic imbalance between where they come from.

• 1:24:14Speaker 03

  So what I really don't like about how that came out and when Sean Ryan was there at the time with us in DC when this happened and we talked about this shortly after that is when Herrera went on his show and the thing took a kind of a dark turn because the term human trafficking was slapped on this thing. And when you hear that, you think of slavery and sex trafficking and all these things. And it's my understanding that's not at all what goes on in these operations. It's no different than someone setting up any other type of business and the people come willingly, the people that work in these programs, it's a great job, it's fun. Some of them have known their whole life that they have this intuition or this special

• 1:24:58Speaker 03

  talent and they're socially awkward or have other pathology, social pathologies that they're dealing with too that somehow seems like it plays into this. So it's like not all the people that are talented in this way are normal in every other way. It's like God created some balance. So when they can come in and get involved in this program and have food and shelter and be treated with respect and make money, like if you went down there on your high horse representing the United States and morality and went in and tried to liberate these people, they'd be like, get out of here, we don't want to be liberated, this is our job.

• 1:25:34Jesse Michels?

  Can I play devil's advocate for one second? I think in the Michael Herrera testimony, he thought that Whatever organization this paramilitary group was from was taking advantage of the fact that Indonesia was this disaster zone.

• 1:25:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:25:48Jesse Michels?

  And some of these people could go missing easily.

• 1:25:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:25:51Jesse Michels?

  And so that to me.

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  That's one theory, or the hurricane, the natural disaster was actually threatening a workspace for this operation and they needed to get the hell out of Dodge.

• 1:26:02Jesse Michels?

  Hmm, got it.

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  I have no firsthand experience with that operation, nor direct contact with anyone involved with it. I know of that type of operation, I know of that craft, I know of those containers, and I know of operations that that sounded like. And so the whole point of all this, and let me put a big giant red bow on it for you, is that this was one, I liked, I saw a good Marine up there when I saw Mike. I saw a brother in arms doing his best to be put now with a microphone in his face

• 1:26:45Speaker 03

  in a fucking suit and tie in Washington DC when he's cut out to be carrying a saw through the jungle. And now he's doing his best and he's an honest good guy and I was gonna let him hang. So I sidebarred Greer and a bunch of other people and said, "We need to talk about this." I thanked Michael. And I have been loyal to him throughout the process and trying to help him as much as I can get support for this while also trying to stay low key to figure out where the problems and landmines are with this issue. And this issue was brought up to the, the entire incident was brought up with my corroborations

• 1:27:28Speaker 03

  and my additional information was presented to Sean Kapatrick's version of Arrow. He patently denied it and wrote it off as anti-interesting.

• 1:27:39Speaker 03

  And there was no evidence, and I know for a fact that Sean Patrick has admitted outside of the Office of Arrow directly to members of the Senate Intelligence Committee that it did in fact happen exactly as reported by Michael Herrera and with my additions.

• 1:27:57Jesse Michels?

  That's absolutely wild. The implication of this story is that we can fly these objects? Because we were transporting these psionic assets in this octagonal shaped craft?

• 1:28:10Speaker 03

  So I would think, and again, I'm stepping way outside my bounds. I have no idea how and who that operates, but I, something like a reversed engineered version of the craft is probably what you were seeing.

• 1:28:25Jesse Michels?

  So this brings up maybe the most fundamental question, which is why has the US government, prime aerospace contractors, international organizations, according to you, why have they been systematically using these psionic assets, using other kind of machinery-based attraction techniques to attract these UFOs? What are they doing with the UFOs that land? Like, what do you think was done with the egg that you retrieved, for example?

• 1:28:51Speaker 03

  Um, first of all, I don't know, but I am taken somewhere to a secure facility, and it was either destroyed or hidden or buried, because they have so many of them now that it's not interesting to them, or that it was researched in, with the utmost secrecy.

• 1:29:16Speaker 11

  The senior E G and G engineer described to my great uncle that it was egg shaped, about the size of a SUV. They tried to penetrate the hull, try to open it. They couldn't. They said that they were able to take some very small samples of the material. I'm not an expert in chemistry, but I guess the isotope ratio or the mixture of elements, they concluded it was not made on earth.

• 1:29:40Jesse Michels?

  So it's, I mean, it sounds like we have, by your account, and again, this is fully speculation, I know, I realize you don't know this, but like, thousands of UFOs?

• 1:29:49Speaker 03

  I think the problem is saying "we." That's a big problem, because who's "we"? We don't have shit. Most of this stuff is kept in very niche private aerospace, and this is why the government doesn't quite have a handle on it. This stuff... And the only reason I can say this is because I know how our operations work. Like, nobody knows what I do on a daily basis. Even my middle leader, I could go out on the range and have a particular day, or have an interaction, or have something happen. Nobody in Washington DC knows what the hell I did that day. And it doesn't matter how profound it is.

• 1:30:27Jesse Michels?

  Why is there not a clear chain of command? Why is there not some sort of central authority? You have rumors of, you know, a buddy of mine, Walter Kern. You know, I introduced him to David Grush. He's a journalist. He came out saying, you know, Grush told him that Cheney was the gatekeeper for all legacy UFO programs.

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:45Jesse Michels?

  You know, like, you have these people who do seem to be at the top. You hear rumors of Kissinger back in the day.

• 1:30:50Speaker 03

  That's part of our ignorance is the assumption that there's some functional structure in place. There's not. There's not. And

• 1:30:57Jesse Michels?

  Why isn't there?

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  Well, because private aerospace holds a lot of the power and the real estate in this space. And the US government, they kind of lost control of it a long time ago.

• 1:31:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that's my sense is that in the 50s, when the Atomic Energy Commission was set up, where all this stuff was going down around Los Alamos and other sensitive nuclear sites, you had basically the overlaying of nuclear secrecy on top of UFO secrecy. And so if you look at the special definition of nuclear material, basically anything emitting alpha, beta, gamma radiation, any sort of material with radiological properties are born secret upon retrieval. If you're the US government and you retrieve this stuff officially, you're in big trouble because, you know, you don't have plausible deniability. You kind of committed this crime. This is open source science. But if you get a prime aerospace contractor to do it, you're much safer and you're more insulated.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:54Jesse Michels?

  And you have this whole Cold War secrecy era. And I think what we have now is kind of a cargo cult of that Cold War secrecy. It's this structural overhang that is completely anachronistic and actually makes no sense from an American national defense or security standpoint.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  And it's not like they trained, like I wasn't even told that. Like, nobody told me that's the structure I'm working under. I had to find out the hard way. When the New York Times article came out, like 2017, it was really about then things started getting really weird for us. And there was a lot of movement in our world. A lot of things changed for us. A lot of our, our contract callouts changed. New people are introduced into leadership structures. Our communication method changed. Our compensation package got creative. And just knowing the way this world works is because it's so heavily compartmentalized

• 1:32:57Speaker 03

  and because we operate as a hidden hand, that's one of the primary benefits of the service we provide, that the plausible deniability button that people at the top can hit in order to protect themselves would sever us as the hidden hand. And that's kind of an ugly truth we always knew was there, but we were willing to put ourselves in that position because we're patriots and we always believed that it was for the better of our nation and to strengthen our country. At this time, that came into question because there was so much happening and it was obvious

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  and we knew, people started peering over the cubicles, you could say, of compartmentalization. We started sharing facts. We started putting together the best we could, the broader picture of, of what's going on here, because everyone had a little piece of the puzzle. And the guy you're talking to today, sitting here, and I, the reason I can talk broadly about this is because my, my view and understanding of this has like doubled, quadrupled, if not more, just in the last five years than it had in the previous 20, because of all the team building and correlation and the networking going on with trusted individuals, like some of our mutual friends, to try and figure out what the hell's going on, not only like...

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  To answer the the questions of like, to what extent are does our country have advanced technology? How much of it is non-human? But to what extent has our government become compromised? And how much are we at risk? Like, where are the good guys? Where are the bad guys? Like, we're kind of screwed because we're trapped on the dark side of this thing. Like, the military industrial complex, or, you know, the deep black state, is not this evil empire full of like Darth Vader's. Like, it's the best and brightest. It's the most patriotic. It's the most talented. It's the most committed, accomplished people working over here. And ninety-nine percent of what goes on, this nation benefits from.

• 1:35:03Speaker 03

  And it's what makes the nation great and powerful is because of the fruits these institutions and private companies and the people that work there provide. So, like, that's really scary to get like, oh, you know, I'm like, oh, my God, are we one of the bad guys? So, we're trying to figure out which side of this issue to be on. And um, one of the things I feel extremely fortunate about in this moment right now is that the majority of the good guys have moved to this side. I mean, thanks to people like David Grush, who stuck his neck out and trade and blazed the initial trail for disclosure and took a lot of crap for doing so. And I'm sure he thinks made a lot of mistakes and could have done things better.

• 1:35:48Speaker 03

  But he's made it much easier and a much better environment for us to come forward. And it's much more obvious that the bad guys are weaning in number and they're doomed. And our numbers are growing. But at the time, when I was at the conference in DC, that wasn't the case. We were teetering. And, you know, you're faced with that ultimate question of like, do you do the right thing? Or do you self-preserve? And as a married man with kids, that self-preservation option becomes much more complex because it's about like my wife and kids and my livelihood and my quality of life and my my wealth and net worth and everything we've worked on is at stake.

• 1:36:31Speaker 03

  And so it's a very complicated question, but my, it didn't take me long to decide because, like.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  I had to believe that in the end of the day that my intuition and my instincts for patriotism and for good would lead me at every moment to the proper conclusion. And this really began when we sat there in the audience, me and my teammate, and we're listening to Michael Herrera's story. And I'm going, and I was able to understand what he was saying was true, or at least had elements that I was fully aware of that he didn't quite understand, that he couldn't have been making up. Because if he did, somebody planted ideas in his imagination because he nailed exactly what goes on. So it was at this moment that we began to help out.

• 1:37:27Jesse Michels?

  And what does that look like? So the second you decide internally, I'm going to choose the hard path. This program needs to be reformed. This Michael Herrera guy is actually a good guy. Do you go back to headquarters and you say, you go to your boss and you say, hey, actually, you were wrong to have me red team this guy? Or what exactly happens there? Or do you kind of move in the dark?

• 1:37:47Speaker 03

  No, we went, we went back and we flipped, we flipped on, we flipped on red team power in the ultimate fashion. And we began to black team the black team is what we did. So, and it was fun to have that clear of an orientation and to be that fucking fired up about it because we went after them.

• 1:38:11Jesse Michels?

  How'd you go after them?

• 1:38:13Speaker 03

  So the first question is, who the hell are we working for? And what are their intentions? This was happening at a time we were set out to recover some sensitive information that was believed to be kept on some tough books. Panasonic tough books. This was in the last four years. And it's believed on these tough books was highly sensitive information that was evidence to CR programs that we were involved in. We received human intelligence that gave us.

• 1:38:48Speaker 03

  The intel package we needed to pursue where we thought the first set of tough books might be. A recovery team was sent and we found the tough books, I'm not going to say where. And we returned them to our employer um at a familiar facility in the California desert. Uh the tough books were missing the hard drives. We then set out to recover the hard drives. We found the human and our human uh asset led us to another location high in the Sierras, which was a glacier lake and the hard drives were sealed in a steel container like 25 feet underwater.

• 1:39:24Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 1:39:25Speaker 03

  So um a third mission.

• 1:39:28Jesse Michels?

  What exactly is on these hard drives?

• 1:39:29Speaker 03

  I don't know. Whatever it was, there was at least two adversarial parties who would do anything to get their hands on them. And we got caught in the middle. The next mission we went out on, I'll just tell you that shots were fired. And um we called bullshit and that's when we began to backtrack and set out with our our own effort to find out exactly who we were working for and what they were interested in.

• 1:39:59Jesse Michels?

  Can you say who you were working for?

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  No, I can't say. There's currently uh two investigations taking place right now and um I can't. FBI is one of them.

• 1:40:09Jesse Michels?

  And when you say you called bullshit, shots were fired, can you say anything about that incident?

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:40:16Jesse Michels?

  Okay, fair fair fair enough.

• 1:40:17Speaker 02

  I was wanting to say.

• 1:40:18Speaker 03

  No, um but I'll take the, we got jerked around. Our intel changed last minute. Uh our location changed. There was a lot of bad things that were going on rhythmically that didn't smell right. But we kept putting one foot in the in front of the other and you almost have to at that point, whether you're playing along or not, because you need to play along to gather and to do interrogation of what traps are being laid in front of you. Just hope you don't fall on them because that's helpful information.

• 1:40:49Jesse Michels?

  When you say they are using you for plausible deniability just to sever the hidden hand, can you say anything more about that?

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, um it was believed that there was evidence of crash retrievals that.

• 1:41:09Speaker 03

  Um, were proof of criminal activity.

• 1:41:13Speaker 03

  On these tough books. And that this data was captured illegally. On operations within the program in the desert. And that there was a whistleblower or a group of whistleblowers that were going to be turning this evidence in. Um, to the powers that be. In order to. Uh, expose the program and thereby doing that expose individuals. So this is, you know, everyone likes to ask like. Why, why are you talking right now? Aren't you afraid for your life? How can people haven't been killed? And I'll tell you why. There's a couple of reasons. One, why am I not afraid that?

• 1:41:57Speaker 03

  Someone's gonna try and silence me with death. Well, um. First of all, if they. If they wanted to and were capable of doing it, if they had the will and skill to do it, they would have done it already. They also like Lou wouldn't be here. Dave wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be here. They would have done it already.

• 1:42:14Jesse Michels?

  I, uh, I pray that you are right. Just to play devil's advocate for a second. Lou and Dave are of different class than you. You, you've, you've touched the metal. So to speak. Maybe not the craft itself, but you are as close as it gets to the actual retrieval.

• 1:42:34Speaker 03

  But why does that, why would that make me any more of a target?

• 1:42:37Jesse Michels?

  Well, there's always the ability to stigmatize somebody. I like, I know Dave and I find him beyond reproach, but there's always the ability to hang on. This guy's just this intel guy. He's gathered a bunch of secondhand information and it's what people use to detract from his testimony right now.

• 1:42:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:54Jesse Michels?

  With you, I think it's kinda hard. If you were to just, just listen to everything you've said today.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  It's tough to to to deny. Well, that comes down to the will. So I say it's two things that keep you alive or kill you. Is there has to be intent and capability. I call it will and skill. So there has to be a will. To to take me out, there has to be the skill, the ability to do it. So why is there, the will is gonna come from this place. It's. It's not gonna come from the what everyone thinks is a national security issue. We need to hide this stuff. Where that's gonna come from is from individuals within. The organization or who have been involved in any part of these activities. Who have committed crimes and wants to cover their ass.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  They will do anything to protect themselves, which includes taking out other people, wet works. And so that that that makes for a very narrow. Group of folks that might at least have the will to do that. And you can kind of smoke those people out.

• 1:44:03Speaker 03

  Skill is the other one, like who's actually gonna facilitate this and how will that be facilitated? There are some sneaky ways to do it. There are some more blatant, like brute force ways to do it. You don't wanna show up at my house. Uh, and think you're gonna be successful with brute force because. That's gonna go south for you really quickly, or you don't wanna approach me anywhere in public, like you're gonna you're gonna have to really do something creative. Because. I'm not afraid of the boogeyman. I am the boogeyman, so you better bring it. Uh, but that doesn't, that's a lot of talk when you have wife and kids. So I I'm not here to bring that on.

• 1:44:47Speaker 03

  But there there is not. It hasn't been shown that anyone has the will and skill to do, or they would have already. For me, um, and I think there are more good guys out on this side than there are bad, even at the at the high level. Now that all being said, I do know for a fact. That.

• 1:45:13Speaker 03

  There are leadership within

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  entities that I work for and with that have called for wet works. And there are people that have died under very suspicious circumstances at the most convenient time for those who would want to have them silenced. Who were coming out and who were speaking out on our activities.

• 1:45:39Jesse Michels?

  Anybody you know?

• 1:45:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:45:41Jesse Michels?

  Can he say anything more?

• 1:45:42Speaker 03

  No, because there's an investigation um happening right now. Uh, and they're, they're looking into it.

• 1:45:50Jesse Michels?

  That's scary, man.

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  It is very scary. But, so when we realized we're being compromised, I sent everybody home and I, we began to do our own operation. And I wanted to know if this came from the very top. Was the top of our organization either complicit in this attempt to sever the hidden hand, which is us? Or were they compromised? Because there's the only two options.

• 1:46:19Jesse Michels?

  Um, do you feel now like you have the proper protection in place? Because I, I think from an American national security standpoint, if you have these different fiefdoms where the left hand isn't talking to the right hand, you have over compartmentalization.

• 1:46:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:36Jesse Michels?

  You have all this knowledge locked up in these disparate pockets. And you're competing with China and Russia. That it's actually maladaptive from a national security standpoint. So is somebody in authority saying, you know, I see this Jake guy. He's actually acting in the best interest of the country. Let's protect him.

• 1:46:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:46:55Jesse Michels?

  In, in order to come out.

• 1:46:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, and now that takes us to Congress because when I went to the Director of Security and realized he didn't have my back, I realized I couldn't trust my nebulous network anymore. And then I was at a loss and I was left with the one like emergency button that I always thought I had and I punched it. And that was to go to Congress, to go to the Senate Intelligence Committee and go to the Monitor for CIA and spill my guts and go, help me, help me, help me. This is what's happened. Like, help. Um, that was probably one of the most discouraging experiences of my life because within minutes of being there and asking for help.

• 1:47:43Speaker 03

  They were begging for my help.

• 1:47:45Jesse Michels?

  Interesting. Like they didn't understand what was going on? They had no handle on it?

• 1:47:49Speaker 03

  No, they were, they were being bullied and being harassed at their homes and were scared for their life and wanted me to set up a personal protection detail to help protect them. And I was like, fine, fuck, I guess this is where we're going with it.

• 1:48:05Jesse Michels?

  Are there, are there rumors? Because the longstanding rumors are that this is run by the CIA. That in 52, you had public facing UFO research in the form of Blue Book, this sort of, you know, public relations effort cleave off from the more vital organization actually studying this stuff. And that was the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence in collaboration with Patel Memorial Institute, the Atomic Energy Commission. And then even up until today, you have Chris Sharp writing a great article for the Liberation Times. He's talking about kind of the, the chain of command for the UFO program. And he cites Glenn Gaffney as the CIA's Director of Science and Technology as being kind of one of the primary gatekeepers of the legacy UFO program. So when

• 1:48:48Jesse Michels?

  you go to them and you say, all this crazy stuff is happening and it's super disorganized and it's, you know, kind of unethical, are they, they're really just completely unaware?

• 1:48:58Speaker 03

  You mean Congress?

• 1:48:59Jesse Michels?

  No, I mean the CIA.

• 1:49:00Speaker 03

  CIA? So what's happening? Is there are multiple programs and multiple coverups happening all at the same time? Everyone's, not everyone, but there, that's the biggest misunderstanding that everyone would benefit from resolving is this is not that organized and it's not, there's not that much synergy at play. And why, why I know it's valuable that I'm here today is like,

• 1:49:35Speaker 03

  I have, I'm like the fingertips, like I'm out here at the, and I'm like, we're touching it. We're the grassroots on the ground, interacting with crash recovery, not reverse engineering. That's a different group. But all we've heard from is like, like say the, the shoulder joint, like the head of this thing.

• 1:49:52Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  Um, but the shoulder has no idea what's going on at the fingertips. And you could get to the elbow, you could have some corruption and misdirection here. That's like, that's like changing the direction and energy that's being sent down to the fingertips. And vice versa, there isn't stuff going up and down.

• 1:50:09Jesse Michels?

  Um, so it's this like gangly octopus of an organization. It's not this monolith.

• 1:50:15Speaker 03

  No, it's not. And just think about it, like, we give it too much credit in that regard. Like, how in the world could you manage? Um, like hundreds of thousands of humans, first of all, with all their flaws and instincts, who are trained as the number one, trained that the number one rule is deception. And so they're all being deceiving and like, there's, this supposed to be some big organization that works together.

• 1:50:41Jesse Michels?

  And then the detractors are gonna say, why haven't there been more whistleblowers? And then I think that the answer is, there have been.

• 1:50:48Speaker 03

  There have been.

• 1:50:48Jesse Michels?

  Steven Greer has a database of hundreds of whistleblowers.

• 1:50:53Speaker 02

  Well, I, I, this is where I, I, I just wanna say something. I think for, for people who, who may be sitting in your position, cause they're watching this, Jake, they're watching this.

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  And they might be thinking about going through what you're going through. Is there anything you'd say to them?

• 1:51:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:51:13Speaker 03

  It's a problem and it's sad, but our Congress is not in control. They are completely, they're ignorant and neutered when it comes to the subject matter. For the most part, they're ignorant and neutered. And where they're not ignorant and neutered, they're corrupt and arrogant. Which nets us a Congress that's in a state of paralysis by analysis. And I can't tell you like, for me, how sinking a feeling that was, like, I go running. And I I'm I'm nervous because I'm gonna blow the whistle. The first place I go is the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Monitor for CIA. And I start telling my story. They don't question it for one second. They know it's happening.

• 1:51:58Speaker 03

  They're like, they're they're they're edifying everything I'm saying and trying to cut me off because they're so like excited to actually get to talk about this and they're like, oh my god, so what do I do? They're like, uh, give me your number. Do you have signal? I need to text you. These guys were at my house last night. And I'm like, wait a minute. This was my asking for help moment.

• 1:52:19Speaker 12

  My fellow citizens. Today we celebrate the mystery of American renewal.

• 1:52:26Speaker 03

  I know that my experience, it's no coincidence that it happened during the Clinton era and the path that I took was something that was heavily influenced by the fact that the Clintons were in office and that when Clinton took office, he was, I think, surprised to find out that he was um never intended to be a part of the leadership structure he was ostensibly in control of and knew that he was surrounded by lies and limited by laws and quickly took an interest in the subject and when he couldn't get answers um started taking action.

• 1:53:07Speaker 03

  And I think our whatever I ended up doing was was related to that and was part of the pressure that was put on the DOD to maybe even create like a red team to infiltrate the black team and get into the programs and then report back through our leadership structure as to what's really going on.

• 1:53:30Jesse Michels?

  Couple of interesting data points around that. Uh, Hillary Clinton, there's a picture of her at Camp David and I think she had met with Lawrence Rockefeller, who is really interested in UFO disclosure and she's holding this book by this physicist, Paul Davies, and it's Are We Alone? And clearly she was getting into the topic of UFO disclosure. And then, uh, John Podesta, who is their chief of staff, has been a major, major proponent of disclosure for the last two decades.

• 1:53:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, and if you look at the timing, I'll tell you it's probably no coincidence that when Hillary was running for president, that that there's a correlation in timing with the standing up of ATIP and what led to the New York Times article and there are things there. I think the Clintons have always wanted to be involved with disclosure and I and and as much as everyone likes to vilify them, I don't think there's any real probably isn't as much of like a self-serving reason other than like a general curiosity. I don't think it's a power grab to want to take it. It doesn't seem to be any real benefit to

• 1:54:38Speaker 03

  being a politician associated with the disclosure. But yeah, the the from just my experiences and people I've talked to that are in the know on probably a little bit more than the average person, the Clintons have definitely been key individuals and have initiated some some efforts that are pro-disclosure.

• 1:55:02Jesse Michels?

  Trump is now promising a whole new era of disclosure. Obviously, the proverbially famous example would be the JFK case. Was that somewhat of an inside job? Are there any details that we have that are classified that the public should should know? I guess a couple of questions there. Do you think UFOs get deprioritized because they're spending all of the political capital on these other disclosures? Or are there kind of as rumored ball and chain dynamics where if you get JFK disclosure, you actually find out that his interest in UFOs might have something to do with his assassination?

• 1:55:38Speaker 03

  Again, anyone could just do their homework. I think if you went out and you really looked at the information that's already been released and its credibility related to the JFK issue, there's clearly some ties. You look at the timeline of what was going on at the time. When you look at the evolution of this subject and how our government reacted to events of the 1940s and 50s and 60s, it makes a lot of sense and it seems to be the best.

• 1:56:09Speaker 03

  The best theory and the fact that we might find out with Trump is exciting, but I sense hesitation even from him. If Cash Patel gets put as the Director of FBI, it seems like he certainly, well, is one, read in on everything, but is motivated to share. And when I see him speaking cryptically about it recently on the clip we talked about.

• 1:56:35Speaker 13

  You're talking to a guy that's read the entire JFK file. The things that we can't release have nothing to do with the questions you guys are asking. The answers you guys want, pretty much have them. There's very minimal stuff that can't be seen from things that you wouldn't even think are related to them.

• 1:56:58Speaker 03

  If you weren't connected to this subject matter, you might not pick up on it. But what I hear him saying cryptically is that the JFK assassination is linked to the UAP topic.

• 1:57:08Jesse Michels?

  And we have a lot of other corroborative data on that. Maybe the most important piece of data is a guy named Harold Malmstrom, who was a presidential advisor for four different presidents, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, and Ford. And he says that there was this Blue Gill Triple Prime test in Johnston and Toll, so in the South Pacific, Marshall Islands, and that you could even see in the deck logs from this test, Blue Gill Triple Prime, that this anomalous material fell out of the plume of this nuclear blast. That UFO material was taken to the Atomic Energy Commission's Albuquerque outfit.

• 1:57:49Jesse Michels?

  And Lawrence P. Geis, who's actually Jeff Bezos's maternal grandfather, was actually the director at the time. And Harold Malmstrom, who is on behalf of JFK, is taken to Los Alamos. And then JFK comes like a month later and gets woken up on the UFO issue. And then you have this. Letter of kind of controversial provenance, but we should really look into this and figure out if this is real, where he's writing to John McConaughey, who is the new CIA director. He had just fired Dulles, and he's saying, "We actually need to coordinate with the Russians or the Soviets on UFOs because we want to make sure that they're not mistaking these UFOs for acts of American aggression because they're flying around sensitive airspace."

• 1:58:34Jesse Michels?

  So I think a lot of actually, you know, research lines up to make one believe that JFK did have.

• 1:58:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, all that makes sense, but when you try and tie it to motive to shoot him in the head in a public place like that's like, what? Why would you go that far?

• 1:58:51Jesse Michels?

  Well, I think it was a medley, probably not the primary reason. He was also trying to defang the nuclear arsenal, and you had guys like Dulles saying, you know, it was an act of patriotism to take him out. Okay, so you have all these disclosures vis a vis Trump. Who should Trump empower? You know, there are talks of a UAP czar. Should somebody be in charge here?

• 1:59:12Speaker 03

  I, first of all, I love the idea of Tulsi Gabbard as DNI. Cash Patel's fantastic. Like, it's really exciting. I mean, people can say what they want about Trump, but the people he's surrounding himself with and what their intentions seem to be are really encouraging. And if you need a guy to clean house, like, dude, all he needs to do is, if he could just give Dave a hunting license to go after those who might have something to share, like, it would clear up a lot, like.

• 1:59:42Jesse Michels?

  Dave.

• 1:59:43Speaker 03

  Dave Grush.

• 1:59:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. Like, Dave's your guy. He knows what's going on and.

• 1:59:49Jesse Michels?

  He knows where the bodies are buried.

• 1:59:50Speaker 03

  He knows where the bodies are buried.

• 1:59:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:52Speaker 03

  And there, we do need some accountability, if not only to, so that it doesn't repeat itself. Like, I don't believe in vengeance, but I believe in justice, and that's the subtle difference.

• 2:00:05Jesse Michels?

  He and Carl Nell, who is just kind of giga-brained, next-level, historical philosophical thinker and just also very high-integrity guy.

• 2:00:15Speaker 14

  Mr. Grush, finally, do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs?

• 2:00:19Speaker 05

  Absolutely based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years.

• 2:00:24Jesse Michels?

  Are you one of David Grush's 40 firsthand witnesses that he says he presented to the Intelligence Community Inspector General Thomas Monheim?

• 2:00:33Speaker 03

  No, Dave and I met after his initial complaint was filed with the ICIG and those guys represented a set... I don't know the 40, I know some of them. One of them is the guy who's no longer with us, whose demise was quite conveniently timed for those who might have something to do with it. But, sorry, I didn't mean to go there with it. But, no, those were... that was a different group. I'm part of a new group that met Dave in this process. You know, we were... I didn't know what Dave was doing at the same time

• 2:01:16Speaker 03

  we were doing it. Like, we were going through the Docter process at about the same time, and we were experiencing our whistleblower transition about the same time Dave was. Like, it was weird. Like, we were both... it was both happening at the same time, but completely different. You gotta remember, like, Dave is way up here at the shoulder, like, the high-end administrative end of the intel and the government's program. I'm down here on the fingertips trying to figure out what's going on, and we ended up meeting in the middle, you know, in this effort.

• 2:01:47Jesse Michels?

  And we should preface this for the audience. What is Docter?

• 2:01:49Speaker 03

  So, Docter is the Department of Defense review process. It stands for Department of Defense Pre-publication and Security Review. So, because I held a clearance at one point, and because I worked for the Department of Defense, anything I say publicly, whether it's written or any oral form, written or spoken, or videoed or recorded in any way, has to go through. This process and then what it does allows the DOD and certain offices within DOD to

• 2:02:29Speaker 03

  review what I plan on sharing and strike it down if they think it puts if it risks operational security for any of them.

• 2:02:37Speaker 05

  Any specific knowledge I garnered when I was on the other side of the door, if I want to talk about that publicly, everybody who has had a job like I have has to submit it to a thing called DOCSER at the Pentagon, DOD Pre-Publishing and Security Review, you know, even if it's about this stuff.

• 2:02:54Jesse Michels?

  How the hell did you get approval to speak to us today through DOCSER, through the DOD's pre-publication approvals? I mean, the stuff you're saying is pretty intense.

• 2:03:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:08Jesse Michels?

  And why are they letting you?

• 2:03:09Speaker 03

  This is a great question because this is going to help people understand pretty much why I answered the last question the way I did in previous answers is that the DOCSER process is somewhat laughable from what its intent is. First of all, you have to understand that people like me have become so compartmentalized that we've become detached. There isn't even knowledge of some of the things that we have done that that sit at a level of availability to people tasked with publication review at the Department of Defense that they could find and get their hands through and go, oh, yes, like everyone

• 2:03:53Speaker 03

  again thinks of this in way too organized of a fashion. And I can, maybe this is a good time, this will help you understand the DOCSER process because I'll tell you exactly how we manipulated it. When we decided to come forward and we, again, that was because we had some concerns about who we worked for and their intentions and whether or not we were in trouble and we're going to get severed is the hidden hand. We decided to query and run an interrogation of the Department of Defense and its private partners by writing a historical fiction novel.

• 2:04:33Speaker 03

  So I call it faction, a mixture of fact and fiction. We hired a ghostwriter and what we did is we put all of the claims that we wanted to, we wrote out, we wrote 120,000 word.

• 2:04:51Speaker 03

  Manuscript and submitted it in pieces to the Dobster process, starting with the first twenty pages, which was like twelve thousand words. And our goal with this process was to, it was essentially red team the Dobster process to expose who subject matter experts are, they call them SMEs, and determine from that, those SMEs, trying to lay out some form of map as to who's actually in control of this thing, who cares about what information and why, and then begin to either push harder and assume that when we hit walls and limitations, that secret paths lie on the other edge of those directory, and then we can begin to create little fact islands and try and draw

• 2:05:36Speaker 03

  a scaffolding between them. This was all done through our interrogation effort by creating a manuscript of a historical fiction, submitting it to Dobster. In this process, the first twenty pages, we had four categories of information that we included. Information A was classified, information we knew was classified, we knew was classified at a high level, and that should get triggered and should get shot down, should get redacted. Information B was information that was classified, but was so need to know that it really only existed within the hearts and minds of the operators that were involved that day.

• 2:06:18Speaker 03

  It shouldn't be at an admin level for anyone to find, or even once shopped out to subject matter experts, it would really, it was a very fine attack that would really precisely illustrate who is concerned with that type of information going public. The third type of information we included in that manuscript was open source classified information, which might sound like an oxymoron, but it's not. There is what is technically considered classified information out on the internet that somehow has leaked out, but

• 2:06:53Speaker 03

  Context matters, how and who is using it matters. Which kind of plays into why someone like Annie Jacobson or another art author who has published incredible things on the subject matter is not subject to the Docter process at all. People like me who have held a clearance and have worked directly for the Department of Defense have to go through that process. And so we used my, that as a basis. We use that as our leverage for them to force them to review it and redact it. And then there was the fourth type of information, which was complete fictional liberty. And what we did here is we speculated on the who, what, why, and when

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  of, of the broader picture outside what we knew through our own compartmented information and our need to know facts. And then we draw what we thought were likely reasons and filled in around those facts and connected them to other and we went fishing to see if we could touch on something that was classified and get it redacted, and then therefore point towards the SMEs. In doing this process, we submitted, it took six months to get 20 pages back and we had seven pages of redactions from all four categories.

• 2:08:11Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:08:12Speaker 03

  And we knew we were on, like game on. And so, you know, they were stuck. They can't, they can't have a poker face. They, so they're stuck in this situation where by not redacting something, it passes through and now it's open source. By redacting something, they are indirectly validating that it is sensitive and it is classified. It did really happen and someone's concerned about it. There is a counterplay though, and that would be to intentionally allow something that was classified to get out under the context of a fictional novel and therefore internally sealing it with the stamp of the creative writings of a fictional author. Boom, gone.

• 2:08:55Speaker 03

  And now something that's reality is now spun into fantasy and that's where it lives in the public domain. And that's a strategy that, that we use commonly. I, I call it, or I'll say the best place to hide the truth is in a pile of horse shit.

• 2:09:14Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 2:09:14Speaker 03

  And that's the best place to deal with it.

• 2:09:16Jesse Michels?

  Or, you know, goes back to Plato where he writes the Republic and he says, Everything I'm about to tell you is a lie. And then he sort of writes this like profound, beautiful like musing on like the ideal state, but also with some metaphysical implications. And I think a lot of UFO history is hidden in plain sight vis a vis these fiction books. So you have Tom DeLonge, Blink 182 frontman, writing with Peter Lavenda and A.J. Hartley, this whole series of, I would say, historical faction where he's dealing with executives at Lockheed Martin and other places, and writing about crash retrievals and other things. You have another guy named Chase Brandon, who's a CIA liaison to Hollywood. He wrote a great book called Crypto's Conundrum,

• 2:10:01Jesse Michels?

  which I believe has some, you know, real, real truth in it. And so this is an age-old strategy. And it sounds like you red teamed Docter pretty effectively.

• 2:10:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah, it worked. And they spit it out. And then what was funny is they, they didn't like, they're like, well, our, our purpose in only submitting 20 pages at the time is we wanted opportunity to evaluate and react and then rewrite the subsequent chapters to probe for more redactions. Or to probe for more willing, willing allowances of classified information. And they caught on to us and said, we're done. You have to submit your whole manuscript. And we were like, no, these, we're writing like a series.

• 2:10:51Speaker 03

  And it's like, consider this whole thing a series and these are episodes. We are going to release only 20 pages at a time. Do you want us to release it without it being reviewed? Well, no, no, no. Okay, well, then we need you to review it. And then we'll give you the next 20 pages because that's actually, this isn't one book. We're going to release it four months later. So, you know, you're in the driver's seat in that regard because they kind of paint themselves into this corner with the way they work. And then you can use that against them, which is a red team 101 situation.

• 2:11:21Jesse Michels?

  And there's no distinction for them between fact and fiction where once it's passed Docter, you can now say, actually, this was fact. Because you passed it under the veneer of fiction, you can still now say this is fact.

• 2:11:33Speaker 03

  And it's, and its context is king. So it's like, what, because there are things that got redacted, like I said, that's open source. I cannot talk at length about.

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  Organizations I worked for when I was enlisted. Even though, like, I just told you everything about what I did and where I was stationed and everybody knows the history of who's there and what's there. I can't, I can't utter the words. I can't talk to you about my recruitment process at length and how I ended up where I did. Because that's, that's redacted as well. But this is, this is why it's confusing and why Dave can say. We have multiple down craft and have collected dead pilots. And like, why could you say that? It's because when it goes in to Dopser. They distributed, they do their, they, the, the people at the front read through and they do their best job to disseminate, oh.

• 2:12:29Speaker 03

  Who should we ask about who should care? Another thing that happens is like. Nobody else to touch that shit with a ten foot pole. No, no office wants to be the guy that says. Oh yeah, I have a problem with Dave saying biologics. It's like. You wanna pop your head up and like be the SME that has a problem with biologics? Also, people that may have had a problem with it, this has to do with. Turnover and generations existing within these ancient organizations, like the fact that this has been going on for seventy years, like. The people who. He- whose heads need to roll may not even be alive anymore and someone else has taken that position, so. This kinda gives them an easy way out. They're not having to.

• 2:13:11Speaker 03

  Come clean and confess the sins of their forefathers. All they have to do is. Allow classified information to not be redacted through the Dopser process and they just got disclosure. So from this angle, I think disclosure is almost on us to realize, aha, they're giving us a sign. Departments and you can't think of the DOD or the Dopser process again, is this you people over credit the organizational and the synergy of these. Institutions. The three letter agencies don't mean shit, like. This may be the way, the government's only way to disclose is to like, I can't say it, but you can ask me question, ask me a yes or no question, ask me if something is true, and I won't say no. And that's kind of where we're at.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  So, we need, I think the Dobster process is one of the keys to disclosure. Like, let's keep submitting documents and get this stuff out. The NHI does not respect the monopoly the US government thinks it has on this subject. And there are organizations worldwide that understand that, uh, that it's a worthwhile investment. They're not waiting on offices like Arrow or the President of the United States to tell them they should spend time and money on this. It's being done. And there are, there are global crash recovery and reverse engineering programs, um, outside the US. And I'm not referring to just governments. I'm referring to hybrid organizations, organizations that are extra governmental. Listen, I'm not here to make anyone believe anything.

• 2:14:40Speaker 03

  Like, belief is a very personal thing. It's very personal. And the problem with this subject matter is, well, one, it's very, it's very intense because it carries such profound implications. I don't know that we have any more or less proof per se on this subject for the general public than we do other things that we probably accept more broadly than this subject. But it's because of the implications of this that people want to draw very hard lines on it. But, man, if, I think a good place to start is to humble yourself for, for everyone that's getting exposed to this right now. Humble yourself from the perspective of what you consider believable. And I think a good measure, a question to ask is like,

• 2:15:24Speaker 03

  how much do we currently take wholeheartedly and believe in that we act on every day? If I was to ask you to remove everything from your life that you Believe because someone else told you or you read somewhere or were taught that you don't have firsthand experience with, you'd be paralyzed and speechless.

• 2:15:43Jesse Michels?

  Wouldn't be able to function.

• 2:15:44Speaker 03

  You wouldn't get out of your house.

• 2:15:45Jesse Michels?

  If everybody had radical Cartesian doubt, where it was like, I don't even know that that's a chair, or you know, what you're saying is real, or whatever. You wouldn't be able to function, you wouldn't be able to operate.

• 2:15:54Speaker 03

  And this is where I just give up on trying to make people believe anything, like, I don't have time for that, like, I'm over it. Like, this has been my life for a long time, like, I've got shit to do.

• 2:16:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:03Speaker 03

  And I have things I'm trying to, I'm like, making people believe is, is not, does not interest me.

• 2:16:10Jesse Michels?

  Well, it's extremely easy to sway the public in various ways and put, put guardrails on their thinking without them even knowing it.

• 2:16:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:19Jesse Michels?

  And so there's, you know, good critical thinking, you know, this guy Thomas Bayes, the statistician from England, the 18th century, Bayesian, Bayesian thought, Bayesian reasoning. And it's like, new data that you get should be evaluated in the context of your prior database. And if your prior database is like, every time you hear the word UFO, you think snake oil, you think I'm gonna throw it in the junk pile, you're building a bad data set, like, that's actually bad critical thinking.

• 2:16:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:45Jesse Michels?

  And if you were just open-minded and you read, you know, this great book, UFOs and Nukes, which nobody can read, who I recommended to, because it's so dry and hard-headed and it's 580 pages. I think you have to come out with some sort of base case around UFOs being real, and at least, at the very least, worthy of investigation.

• 2:17:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would say the least credible thing in the equation is most people's basis for belief.

• 2:17:10Jesse Michels?

  Hmm, what do you mean by that?

• 2:17:12Speaker 03

  That's the least credible thing, is their, their basis for belief is not a reasonable, is, they're not taking a reasonable approach to their criteria for belief. Their criteria for that is based on, well, what are you basing that on? Like, what research have you done?

• 2:17:29Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 2:17:29Speaker 03

  How have you disseminated fact from fiction to arrive at your current understanding? How do you know you haven't been subliminally programmed to be desensitized to one things and hypersensitized in a negative fashion to others? And you probably have. So you need to be thrown out as someone who should be making decisions for what you believe, because your perspective's fucked.

• 2:17:53Jesse Michels?

  It's funny to see after this Sean Ryan story coming out, this Las Vegas bomber, Cybertruck bomber, in front of the Trump Tower, this bizarre, like,

• 2:18:03Jesse Michels?

  I don't know how to describe it. It's like this meme warfare act. It's hard to, you know, really understand and comprehend. And then you have this guy going on Sean Ryan, uh, uh, Schumate, saying that he received an email from the Green Beret himself, the bomber, saying that basically there are Chinese gravitic drones flying over the eastern seaboard that could, if this is true, the payload delivery involved in these warp drive gravitic drones could vaporize New York City or Washington DC at the drop of a hat. And so, this is what I, I find fascinating, bringing it back to the whole like, you know, critical thinking thing. I've had more high-powered Silicon Valley people hit me up about, oh, a- anti-gravity

• 2:18:46Jesse Michels?

  might be real. After that, it was just generically popular. And because of that, you have people who honestly I respect in many other contexts as far as their ability to operate, make money, do really cool things in the world, coming to me being like, oh, maybe the stuff you did on Townsend Brown, anti-gravity is real.

• 2:19:02Speaker 03

  It came, it came into focus in a place they were already directing their attention, rather than their intention being broadened to where these facts exist.

• 2:19:11Jesse Michels?

  It's just all hypnosis and magic tricks. Yeah.

• 2:19:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Sean Ryan thing has really been hell for us the last two to three weeks. Like, that's really touched our community and there's a lot of ties to that and, and our, our group of, of friends, let's say, and that's been something else. And it's, it's a hot topic, you know, touching on the New Jersey thing, we were just out there. We were assigned, um, assigned to support the DOD and the FBI task force that was trying to be stood up out there, uh, serving essentially as a hidden hand like we normally are dispatched, to try and come in and offer something in order to declare this a hazard to...

• 2:19:57Speaker 03

  Public safety or to find criminal intent or criminal actions so that the FBI could have a basis.

• 2:20:03Jesse Michels?

  Jake, what did you find out?

• 2:20:04Speaker 03

  Well, that's where I'm going. I'm happy to tell you.

• 2:20:07Jesse Michels?

  The entire world is extremely confused. It feels like the highest levels of government are confused as to what is going on.

• 2:20:14Speaker 03

  Okay, our first day there, we got there, we were primarily focused to the activity in and around, or above and around, I should say, Pikatini Arsenal, which is a government weapons installation, weapons focused, let's say, or weapons centric installation. First night there, on the ground, we get our OPs set up and we're watching the skies. We're, organization I work for now, one of the founding members of, it's called Skywatcher, and we specialize in aerial intelligence. This is completely autonomous and an independent venture. It's full of, full of guys like me that have worked in an official capacity for the government.

• 2:20:56Speaker 03

  We've brought our tools and talent and experience and are investing them into this private company and then trying to help the government where we can and also provide a window for the public into this subject and these technologies. So, that being said, we show up in New Jersey, first night, on location, within thirty minutes, over Pikatini Arsenal, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. All these orange orbs come into existence right over Pikatini Arsenal. Trying to do timestamps on how long they were there was difficult because it appeared about forty, forty, forty-five minutes at a time, which is consistent with some traditional large battery powered drones. But what we can't tell is if that was the same drone

• 2:21:39Speaker 03

  or it was disappearing and reappearing. And that was the sensational language that was used more often. What it could mean is that they were turning their lights off and on and that's why they were disappearing and reappearing, but...

• 2:21:54Jesse Michels?

  Were they only at night?

• 2:21:55Speaker 03

  Only at night for us. It was between like seventeen hundred and midnight. So from five o'clock until about midnight is when we monitored or captured most of the activity. And so, you know...

• 2:22:08Speaker 03

  The problem with that whole thing out there is most of the data being collected and the reports were coming in were from unqualified observers on the ground using visual spectrum. So what I mean by that is humans looking up with their eyes and going, "Bro, what's that?" It's also very busy airspace around there. So there's airplanes, there's helicopters. I mean, if you really wanted to red team that situation, what I would have done is I would have put a bunch of glow sticks and helium balloons and tied them together and then sent them up in the air and watched people just lose their shit. Because you you wouldn't been able to discern. And then you'd shoot them with, you know, uh, BB guns until they pop and disappear like, there's so much room for fuckery in that situation that you, it's hard to cut through the noise.

• 2:22:51Speaker 03

  What we were observing, because we are qualified observers, was not fuckery. There's something very concerning over Picatinny Arsenal. So the first thing we looked at was, okay, these are probably large like drones that we know the classes of that are available out there in military inventory and in um, some civilian inventory that was turning off its lights in route and then on RTB and which is illegal. So there's our case for breaking laws right there. If this was in FAA controlled airspace, when a drone leaves the ground, first of all, uh, UAS, an unmanned aerial system, has to have all the FAA approved lighting

• 2:23:33Speaker 03

  systems that any other aircraft does, and it has to have them on when it leaves the ground. It's also limited. You have to be a licensed operator and you're not allowed to fly above 400 feet. These were lights off over 400 feet, over Picatinny Arsenal, just sitting there. No one's doing shit about it.

• 2:23:47Jesse Michels?

  And weren't they sitting there for five hours plus?

• 2:23:49Speaker 03

  Sometimes, sometimes, longer. And then, so but we still don't know if it was just lights going off or they're popping into place. Because while this is going on, in the airspace south of there, we also were running a program that's more, we're running operations, let's say, that's more, um,

• 2:24:10Speaker 03

  More attuned for the UAP, the the unidentifiable phenomenon. And we had UAP class stuff popping up to the south of there. Coming in from the outer atmosphere and hovering into place and going back into space.

• 2:24:25Jesse Michels?

  What do you mean you were running operations more attuned to the UAP?

• 2:24:28Speaker 03

  We were looking for that. We were expecting that, looking for that and making sure we were paying attention for things that fit.

• 2:24:35Jesse Michels?

  Got it.

• 2:24:36Speaker 03

  The box of possibly being, well, and UAP is a very safe word. UAP is, the words are very, you should say UAP more often because it means unidentified anomalous phenomenon. I mean, I don't know how you get, I don't know how that becomes as concrete as if there's aliens and spaceships flying around. It's the opposite of clear or conclusive.

• 2:24:56Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 2:24:56Speaker 03

  So UAP is, should be a safe word. So yes, it was UAP and we were looking for UAP. We're looking specifically for things that we couldn't identify and clearly didn't fit into a box. The, the following nights, our plan was to get airborne in, in our helicopter and get a closer look. Legally, under the guidance of the FAA's air traffic control. Uh, what was interesting about the situation is that there was a TFR setup over Picatinny Arsenal. A month prior, like before Thanksgiving. And the TFR is a temporary flight restriction, which is turns any airspace into highly restricted airspace.

• 2:25:37Speaker 03

  On a case by case basis. And so someone

• 2:25:42Speaker 03

  uh, had the foresight or the reasoning to set up a TFR to restrict drone activity over Picatinny Arsenal weeks before Thanksgiving. We're there, you know, around Christmas, or a little before Christmas. So this has been going on for a month in the area. And what's interesting about this TFR is it didn't restrict general aviation traffic. It only restrict, uh, UAS unmanned aerial systems. So what that means is any member of the general public who got in their civilian aircraft with a pilot's license could fly through that TFR with no restrictions. But a drone could not. So they were carving out for drones. Well, the problem there is an aircraft could have an incursion with these drones. So everyone was pretending weren't there and was ignoring it.

• 2:26:26Speaker 03

  And now you have an accident or an incident, which is, which is a safety risk. And when you get into safety risks for things that fly around in the air, things get serious really quick. And that was. The biggest problem and the biggest thing that wasn't being addressed that we were trying to make sure people were paying attention to was that to say there's no public risk, that's a really low hanging fruit, not the most exciting detail to anchor to in this thing, but it's an anchor point where we could start digging and forcing people to give more concise reports from the DOD side, from the local law enforcement agencies, because nobody was working together there. There were over 59 local law enforcement

• 2:27:05Speaker 03

  entities working, not coordinating there. We had FBI, we had DOD, we had private partners on Picatinny. Some from legacy programs that are very popular were there with their very fancy tools and toys. Everyone's doing their own thing.

• 2:27:26Jesse Michels?

  Were you called in specifically because of your UAP retrieval experience?

• 2:27:31Speaker 03

  I wouldn't say my retrieval experience per se, but our team of guys

• 2:27:38Speaker 03

  were second to none, and I'm not being overly proud in saying that. So, we were brought in

• 2:27:46Speaker 03

  more so on the behalf of DOD to help take a look at things and really contribute any way we can. But we found there was a lot of, there wasn't a lot of coordination going on. The powers that be, that be, really don't know what's going on, or very few do, and they're clearly not communicating with the rest of our leadership and the public. I mean, it's a great sample of why this whole thing is so confusing, is the New Jersey drone incident.

• 2:28:15Jesse Michels?

  What did Trump mean when he said, "It's probably not adversary, we know where the garage is, we could go into the garage."

• 2:28:24Speaker 15

  Our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went.

• 2:28:33Speaker 03

  God, you're asking me to know what Trump means.

• 2:28:39Speaker 03

  You're just asking another guy that's watching that on his phone like you.

• 2:28:44Jesse Michels?

  So what was your net assessment, just for the average person?

• 2:28:47Speaker 03

  Net assessment is this. Based on what we know from previous incursions at MacDill and Langley Air Force Base this year as well.

• 2:28:55Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:56Speaker 03

  That there were Chinese nationals that were taken into custody. That's a very big problem because if they are state actors and they are, it's an act of war. And so, how do we respond to an act of war? Like, there are no good options because either we look weak and vulnerable because we don't respond, or we do respond and what, now we're at war with China, which the world cannot afford. So, there's a counterplay. Now, if I was a red team member, when I look at it this lens, what I would do, if I was working, if I, if America was my adversary, I would fake a Chinese invasion. It would be a false flag.

• 2:29:38Speaker 03

  I would make it look like China was doing this and I would hire, you know, the billions of people that live in China aren't all singing the same song. There's plenty of disgruntled people there that are for hire, that work for other organizations worldwide, and are criminals in other capacities that aren't in line with China's intentions. So, I would, I would hire a Chinese national or someone from China and deploy them to make it look like China was causing the incursion in order to start a war with the US for a number of nefarious purposes. So, it could have been a false flag like that. The biggest problem with shooting them down, everyone's like, "Why don't you just shoot them down?" Well, this has pointed out a vulnerability we've known for a very long time

• 2:30:20Speaker 03

  with why there's a whole category of contracting in the US called C U A S or counter U A S systems, is because drone incursions are a problem because you can't shoot them down. Because where they are most likely a problem is over a highly populated area like here, Dodger Stadium, let's say. You can't just shoot them down because then now they're going to fall and cause damage to people and property. So what do you do? Like, you really can't do anything unless you can chase down who's operating them and take them into custody.

• 2:30:49Jesse Michels?

  Okay, okay, but do you think any of these were genuine non-human intelligence? Any of these drones? You mentioned the Chinese nationals.

• 2:30:55Speaker 03

  Yes, I do.

• 2:30:56Jesse Michels?

  And so, why do you think that?

• 2:30:58Speaker 03

  Because of the way they transitioned in and transitioned out.

• 2:31:06Speaker 03

  Because of indications we got within our uh our observation operations, the way we observe and collect data, um that would be my guess is I do think that there was a an NHI component to this combined, which is what makes it really confusing. You know, the biggest mystery of this whole thing is the mystery. Like, there shouldn't be a mystery. This is a very simple thing. There's something in the sky, go figure out what it is, find out who's flying it, it's over, day one.

• 2:31:38Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  This continues to happen over and over again, and we still are pretending like we're confused.

• 2:31:43Jesse Michels?

  Which points to something that is far superior to us technologically, that is ephemeral or weakly entangled with our reality, and popping in and out, and not something that is easily or prosaically understood. And in the case, I think what makes this so confusing is in the case in which it is genuine UAP, you would get probably our state-of-the-art drones around there as well. We'd throw those out to kind of detect.

• 2:32:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:11Jesse Michels?

  And so you you end up with this extremely kind of fuzzy mixed bag, where it's much easier, again, I don't want to beat up on Sean Ryan, I think he's actually an amazing interviewer guy, but like, you have him retweeting that like, maybe there's like this, you know, loose nuke on the eastern seaboard. I was freaking out, I was texting Logan, we were freaking out about it for a day, and then um there's something easier about that narrative, cleaner about that narrative, than it's actually just this complicated mix of non-human intelligence and human drones.

• 2:32:43Speaker 03

  We want black and white, and you know, Sean is uh just as vulnerable to that as we all are. I could tell you it wasn't loose nukes, um and why I know that for sure is because I know people that work on the NEST team, uh I know people on

• 2:32:59Jesse Michels?

  What is the NEST team?

• 2:33:00Speaker 03

  It's the Nuclear Emergency Support Team, um that ha- and I also know people that work for the W, the Weapons of Mass Destruction Directive under the Department of the FBI. They were there, their families were there, they weren't like Get the fuck out of Dodge like there's a loose nuke. So they wouldn't have had their kids there. They wouldn't have been like going to Target and buying churros like. No, they were they were chilling out. Right. So they weren't worried about a loose nuke at that time. So you really have to look that practically. Um, we're going through this major shift where we're realizing we can't trust. Our institutions. We can't trust the narrative that's being presented and people don't know how to respond to that. And I feel really bad for like.

• 2:33:42Speaker 03

  Like, uh. Baby boom, the good baby boomers, because they're getting. Like vilified so much, but like my in-laws, the sweetest old people, like they've trusted the news and newspaper their whole life. They've trusted offices of the president. And um, it's real dangerous because there's this calling to like. Throw it all out, like get rid of all of our institutions. Get rid of the government. And that's not the answer. What what this needs to be is a call to action for all brave. Well rounded. People with work ethic and a deep sense of meaning to start occupying positions within institutions and offices like. We just need to occupy these positions of power and seize our institutions. And this is everything from like.

• 2:34:28Speaker 03

  The. Uh, you know, the Catholic Church to the World Health Organization, organization to. Uh, police departments, like so many good people I know that are cops are like, screw this, especially around. The George Floyd incident and all the fallout from defund the police are like. I'm retiring, I'm getting out like, oh, great. We're just going to turn the police department over to those who would work under these conditions and. These new standards of like, you don't have to be able to do a pull up or run. Right. Like you can be overweight and like. And try and like protect and serve. No, and so. And same in the military. So many people have gotten out because of how. How why maybe the spirit of D E I or some like to rearrange it D I E because it's it's a death sentence. Um.

• 2:35:14Speaker 03

  But the spirit of that makes sense to all good people, like every one of us in the military

• 2:35:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:35:20Speaker 03

  is here to risk our life so that you can be free to say whatever you want and orient yourself sexually with whatever you want. But it's being gone about the wrong way and so people are punching out and that's the last thing we want to do. We have to, if you want, if you're willing to sacrifice your life in some glorified sexy way of like jumping on a grenade for your bu- buddy and having an awesome funeral, well then be willing to put up with an environment that rubs you the wrong way. Like stay in, your sacrifice is more nuanced than the glory of a fantastic death.

• 2:35:57Speaker 03

  You need to stay in your job and put up with political HR shit and occupy positions of leadership and then make changes. That's the only way this works.

• 2:36:08Jesse Michels?

  That is a beautiful and not nihilistic message to a lot of people who I think have felt cheated by the establishment and institutions over decades. And I do think often the blame gets sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly pinned on the baby boomers. And so I, I mean, yeah, it's important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The, the final thing I think we should just talk about on the New Jersey drone thing and then I think we should move on is on the point of good critical thinking. These quote unquote drones seem to be showing up consistently around sensitive military sites and all over the world, not just in New Jersey.

• 2:36:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:43Jesse Michels?

  So Pickett and the Arsenal is one place, that's where they initially seem to show up, but you have Lakin Heath. You have Salem Nuclear Power Plant in Jersey, you have Brunswick, you know, Duke Energy Power Plant in North Carolina. And this just totally comports with Robert Hastings' work

• 2:36:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:59Jesse Michels?

  on UFOs and nukes.

• 2:37:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:01Jesse Michels?

  So I do think it's important to put this in its proper context.

• 2:37:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:37:04Jesse Michels?

  That what we're seeing today, if you actually have that context, is probably what we've seen historically. You have these UFO flaps historically.

• 2:37:11Speaker 03

  Yes, it's just ridiculous that it's happening now and that we don't know how to respond to it and we don't know how to discern what it is. And the drones, even if, let's say it's drones, that would still freak people out. I I mean, you could go, you could even YouTube, you don't even have to go. But if you've ever been to like a a tech trade show where someone like GM or Chrysler is like showing their new prototype for a flying car, which is essentially a quadcopter just like sleeked out. It's incredible, it looks crazy and it's a real thing that you could hop in and fly it right now. And there's no reason another nation or some autonomous organization that's that's based out of Mexico where it doesn't have to follow US laws, like some billionaire couldn't

• 2:37:54Speaker 03

  put together a plan to get off the off the shore of New Jersey in the Atlantic Ocean and launch a bunch of these. And some of them can launch off the water, they could go from the water, not under, but from the water to the sky. And it and it looks like something out of, you know, historically would like a movie.

• 2:38:09Jesse Michels?

  Are there underwater UFO bases?

• 2:38:13Speaker 03

  I would think so, yeah. Yeah. That seems to be the case, yeah.

• 2:38:19Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 2:38:20Speaker 03

  And this was part of the challenge of my journey and how it took me a long time to get to the point to where I realized, you know, what we're dealing with is NHI versus our own advanced technology. Because there is a spectrum. I mean, we've kind of filled the gap, at least from an ignorant standpoint, unless you have the right way to analyze what you're observing, and I use those terms broadly because we, there's so much more than a human looking up with with like ultraviolet sensing eyeballs, like there's more than that. And so, but there's such a spectrum that it is, it is hard to discern, there's a lot of belief involved.

• 2:39:12Jesse Michels?

  I want to put my cynic hat on for a second

• 2:39:14Speaker 03

  Let's do it.

• 2:39:15Jesse Michels?

  and ask some audience surrogate questions because I think a lot of people are probably just freaked out, a little ontologically shocked at some of these claims. So there's this conspiracy theory called Project Blue Beam. There are people out there that think that this is all being orchestrated by the deep state, that these orbs or crafts will show up. Uh, it'll be an auspice for which to to clamp down and create a surveillance state or to create some fake, you know, Antichrist-like religious awakening.

• 2:39:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:46Jesse Michels?

  Uh, that is, you know, completely a sham. What, what, do you have anything to say to that?

• 2:39:52Speaker 03

  There has been an organized and an unorganized effort on behalf of the US government uh to to disclose some of this stuff. I mean, as early as, or I mean, as recent as like twenty fifteen, sixteen. I mean, ATIP was certainly part of that effort. Um, but like, I don't think that should be looked at negatively. I mean, those who are the gatekeepers or those who are holding these secrets or have the power to release it, let's say, first of all, it's not one group. It's multiple, like, what would you want them to do with it? Like, we can't complain that they're not telling us anything, or they're putting out some organized

• 2:40:37Speaker 03

  disclosure program and soft-serving it to us. I think, I think that, well, first of all, that has been done. And um, whether or not that's a bad idea or not, I don't know.

• 2:40:53Jesse Michels?

  So I think the philosophical question that naturally arises here is you are implementing techniques that seem like you're almost tapping into this sacred other spiritual world. But you're sort of doing it on behalf of American defense. Obviously, you've shown that your loyalty transcends just pure, you know, organizational expedience and realizing that this is actually bad for the country, the way this thing was set up. But what about loyalty above that even? This metaphysical loyalty, loyalty to God, and if these things are angels or celestial creatures? How do you square the fact that we're moving in kind of celestial realms, but we're kind

• 2:41:37Jesse Michels?

  of, you know, using the frame of American defense with all of this stuff?

• 2:41:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a fun question, and we're all forced to consider it once you get to this point. Uh, like, the angels and demons idea, I think, is a good place to kind of orient the idea of what we're dealing with, uh, because there certainly is good energy and bad energy at play. My experience has been, I would say, a hundred percent good energy, like profoundly good. For, so for whatever reason. If this, if this is an atypical experience, or if it only represents one half of, of the experiences people have with the NHI energy, that's fine, but mine has been unbelievably positive and has been life-changing,

• 2:42:24Speaker 03

  and has guided me and given me orientation and motivation and clarity. It's, it gives me so many things. It's like being tapped into, uh, something like a guiding, guiding light, or an omnipresent god that has your best will at heart. But, um, the question comes up often in our circle of friends, let's say, um, the question of are these things, or is this phenomenon benevolent or malevolent? And the answer is yes. Because much like us, they're both. We have the capacity for both good and evil.

• 2:43:08Speaker 03

  And it just, uh, since we're talking philosophically and beyond, like, the universe itself has a pretty consistent set of elements and structure that we've already observed. So to think that there's something like good and evil that exists throughout all domains and dimensions and distances, uh, makes a lot of sense. It would also explain a lot of what we're hearing through the echoes of history related to the phenomenon, angels and demons. So that makes a lot of sense. Um, and it's important to not be naive

• 2:43:49Speaker 03

  and assume that there's no reason to be worried about, um, a higher life form, or a more technologically advanced life form, or a more dominant life form, let's just put it that way. Whether it, it lives in our three-dimensional space, or it's extradimensional. Uh, it could be a real problem, um, which is why, like, on one hand,

• 2:44:16Speaker 03

  For better or for worse, the government is the primary custodian on this knowledge and this hardware. And they're they're the hammer that identifies everything as a nail. They're they're a military-based organization. So they're going to look for advantages for offense and defense. And, you know, it's easy to point fingers and say that's disgusting and this should be about love. But that's not the way the world works. And the freedom we experience, and I I I'm qualified to speak on this from both sides. Like, I'm a human. I have love in my heart. Um, I'm open-minded, I'm caring, I'm sensitive, but I'm also a trained soldier.

• 2:45:00Speaker 03

  And so I understand the value of that. And we live in the benefits that have been provided to us from a military state, from a military dominance on this planet. And to assume, to take that for granted is very unwise. Uh, so, you know, it's like, the good analogy is like a kitchen knife. Kitchen knife could be used to make beautiful food for your family. It could be used to defend yourself or to maliciously kill another human. Is a knife good or bad? It's the intention of the being wielding it that makes the difference.

• 2:45:38Jesse Michels?

  This brings up the next logical question, which is that the OSAT program, which ran from two thousand and seven to twenty twelve, under the auspices of Harry Reid. A lot of these guys were digging holes and looking into kind of exotic weaponry. And they were doing it on Skinwalker Ranch. And a lot of them reported this quote-unquote hitchhiker effect.

• 2:45:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:59Jesse Michels?

  And so all sorts of orbs and, but honestly, hunting, like really paranormal bad. It's like as if they played with a Ouija board, following them home.

• 2:46:08Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:46:08Jesse Michels?

  And so it does seem like what you put in is is what you get out. It's like that new radical song, you know, you get what you give.

• 2:46:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:16Jesse Michels?

  And so, um.

• 2:46:17Speaker 03

  That might be part of it.

• 2:46:18Jesse Michels?

  Seek what seek and you shall find.

• 2:46:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:20Jesse Michels?

  And so, um.

• 2:46:23Jesse Michels?

  I am also of the mind that protecting the free world is not something we can take for granted. And so my hope is that whatever good NHI, you know, are there, like, agree with that. And then at the same time, if you're antagonizing any of the good NHI and they're just actually just superior to us, I worry about that somewhat. And if you're doing it in the name of country, but your country doesn't always act in the best possible way. I mean, you mentioned the term false flag before. The history of American foreign policy is not the history of perfect, you know, moral alignment with the higher good.

• 2:47:04Speaker 03

  No, it's means, the ends justified by means.

• 2:47:07Jesse Michels?

  Often, often. And so, yeah, how do you think about all that going forward?

• 2:47:14Speaker 03

  Man.

• 2:47:19Speaker 03

  I think we should decentralize the ideas. And what I mean by that is, one thing I hope comes of all of this is we encourage every individual to start looking into answering this question themselves. Not only by just doing your own research online, but inside. Don't look inside as much as you're looking out. Walk outside, look to the sky. Try doing something like praying. You don't even have to pray. Come up with another word for it if that's too like, if there's too much like Judeo-Christian stigma with that word. Like, walk outside, look at the sky, open your heart and ask for the good energy, the universe to show something to you.

• 2:48:00Speaker 03

  And it's that simple. Like, stuff can happen in our experience just by doing that. You talk about the hitchhiker effect, and I've shared that most of my experience has been positive, but I haven't shared that stuff has followed me home and that my family sees it. We have stuff show up over our house. We have a UAP we call the angel that shows up and it looks like it has oar wings. It's blue. And it comes in, materializes, hangs out over the house. It's seen by neighbors. It's seen by everybody. And then it's gone. It shoots into outer space.

• 2:48:33Jesse Michels?

  The classic, the wings, that describes a seraphim, you know, like an ancient kind of Hebraic angel.

• 2:48:42Speaker 03

  I mean, it makes sense. Like, and that's the first time we saw it. My son saw it. We thought it was cloud. It's like, there's not a cloud in the sky, but it seemed cloudy around this thing. But it had like, um, it had like, uh, wings. It was blue and it had like, more like butterfly wings than like what we see in like.

• 2:49:01Jesse Michels?

  And you think that that that's somehow protecting you or good or?

• 2:49:05Speaker 03

  It it feels like a good energy, like we can feel that energy I got in the aircraft that night is that same energy I get. Uh, I mean, it puts my my son in tears. It puts like, and he's not afraid, like he's moved. Um, and it's incredible. So like, how do you explain that? Um, and that's a good way to to maybe, if you want to start being your own little amateur scientist. If you walk outside and you open your heart to the good spirit of the universe and you ask for something specific, it seems like a silly exercise and something happens. Let's say you did a craft.

• 2:49:46Speaker 03

  Did you just summon advanced human technology? Did Edwards Air Force dispatch dispatch an aircraft and hover over your house? Probably not. So it's probably more likely like there's something anomalous or NHI based with that situation and, you know.

• 2:50:02Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that the uh, inner outer dichotomy is a false one? And that these things are somehow excavations of what's inside of you and maybe a future science is actually a more spiritual science. There's this 19th century Austrian philosopher named Rudolf Steiner who talks about anthropology. Where it's studying the inner in order to garner mastery over the outer world. And that was what alchemy was always about as well.

• 2:50:31Speaker 03

  I think it's all on the table now. That's like, that's what's fun, but also crazy about this is like, there's so much on the table. There's so much to be explored. And this is what I appreciate about Gary, Dr. Nolan's attitude is that he he thinks this is the greatest moment ever for science, not like something that's ridiculous.

• 2:50:51Jesse Michels?

  Well, I think what's beautiful about it is that since the Enlightenment. Science and the spirit have cleaved off and bifurcated. And if you were to go back to Francis Bacon, he would say, "I am using the scientific method," was back then, you know, more empirical skepticism. It wasn't called that at the time. "But I'm using that in order to discover God's secrets." And since then, now you have like, you know, Richard Dawkins, who's like this, you know, extremely, you know, is just atheist and he's sort of, you know, disrespects anybody that believes. And then on the other side, you have religious fundamentalists who don't take science super seriously and will like throw Darwin out, like it like isn't even an effective local theory, which is probably, you know, it's probably has some use as a theory.

• 2:51:35Speaker 03

  No, I love that point because it's, uh, it's something like the, the beauty of why a children, a child could ask why infinitely and it can annoy an adult. It's like, "Why, why, why?" Because you can track that and the fact that you can't put a lid on it or dead in that line of questioning means that there's something that adult is missing in that scenario. And that's the way I see the approach of the scientific method or thinking that the, that the pursuit of science is somehow, uh, is askew to the pursuit of God. Because even within the scientific method, where did that come from and why was it created? Why do you think it's worthwhile to have a method to objectively evaluate your environment?

• 2:52:18Speaker 03

  You would have to believe that it leads to a, what you consider a good outcome. Now that leads to the next question of, well, what, what is a good outcome and why do you care about what good is?

• 2:52:31Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 2:52:32Speaker 03

  You, so you can't get away even in this, this high horse of science and the scientific method from the pursuit of science. Because if you're a scientist, it's because you love science. You want, you have interest and an intuition that it's, that going down this road objectively through the method is going to lead to something worthwhile for you. And you just loop right back around to. Understanding that you were seeking something good and worthwhile, and where does that come from?

• 2:53:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, and maybe science and religion are, you know, bottoms of the pyramid. And if you ascend, you get to some omega point at the top where they meet. And there's a great Meister Eckhart quote, theologians may quarrel, but mystics all speak the same language. And I do think if you are just intaking information in search of the truth. I think that's a process that is agnostic of, you know, science is one method, religion is another. But we're all sort of seeking some sort of outcome. And Jesus even says in the book of Mark, he says, I'm paraphrasing, but it's something like, what you measure, you'll get more of. And so, you know.

• 2:53:45Speaker 03

  It's where you point your attention and intention. And that seems to be something that is consistent with the phenomenon. When you talk about attracting the good or the evil spirits. I mean, make no mistake, there have been dark things that have happened within CR.

• 2:54:04Jesse Michels?

  CR, crash retrieval.

• 2:54:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, to other groups. And I'm not going to talk about that, but just, it doesn't mean though,

• 2:54:14Speaker 03

  those who hate talking about it this way in the UAP culture, don't want us talking about the negative, want us to focus on the positive. It's because they think that that means our behavior should change. But it's complex, like anything, like it's,

• 2:54:34Speaker 03

  the good still exists, even though there's bad, that you can't, you have to acknowledge that there are dangers associated with it.

• 2:54:42Jesse Michels?

  If you're an audience member at this point, I think you're probably wondering, you're having a burning question, which is, what about space aliens? This all seems to be talk of spirituality, inner, outer orbs, that sort of thing. Where, do we have any evidence that these things come from other planets?

• 2:55:00Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 2:55:03Speaker 03

  I'll, I'll give you one piece of information that people may have gotten out of the stuff that's come out the last couple of years, but this,

• 2:55:11Speaker 03

  this will help and it may not be the answer everyone wants, but you know, there's a reason we use the term biologics and uh, there's a reason Dave really hung his hat on that phrase every time he used it. That's because um, biologics didn't, doesn't necessarily mean sentient beings or conscious creatures. It could be something like a drone from another place like we do. We send our drones we have like Sagan sent Voyager out, like we've all done these things or not we've all, but our government has done many drone programs, Mars rovers, et cetera. So the biologics could be something like soft tissue drones.

• 2:55:55Speaker 03

  While some of the biological cargo that comes with these craft is not conscious. Consciousness itself is how you interact and pilot the craft, which is ironic because for the first time ever, the biological creatures inside are not conscious, but the craft is.

• 2:56:17Jesse Michels?

  Well, it's funny you say that DARPA at this very moment is looking into a field called computational biology. And we're looking at, you know, how do we uh manipulate the biological world, you know, create an anatomical compiler, if you will. And we're, we're, we're starting to understand how cells operate on a more granular level. And so you'd have to think some civilization either on another planet or ours uh, with a lot more time, energy and expertise, maybe has figured out something like that. And that brings me to my next question, which is a lot of people talk about being abducted by these gray aliens and a lot of the people who describe these abductions

• 2:56:57Jesse Michels?

  say that the gray aliens are sort of droid-like robotic creatures that seem to be sent almost as like messengers where they're doing these specific retrievals and insertions. So insertions of, you know, implants and then retrievals of gametes, genetic material, that sort of thing.

• 2:57:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:15Jesse Michels?

  Do you have any take on any of this stuff?

• 2:57:17Speaker 03

  Man, that stuff. First of all, I have zero experience with gray or beings or meeting something face to face. I'd love to do it. Uh, it sounds fun to me. Um, sign me up. But, I mean, as crazy as it sounds, the most trusted people in my circle that I have worked with and do work with and have those, ha- speak to having those firsthand experiences with. And so it's like, what do you do with that? And now I'm in the, now I'm in the seat of, well, where's the proof? Like, no, I'm like, I wanna believe that, like, how can I get there? And I can't, because that's where it's like, I understand where people are taking my information and trying to get there with me.

• 2:58:01Speaker 03

  And you just can't. I just can't get there. Uh, but it's, it's awfully intriguing, because I believe that they believe that that happened. Um, and there are reports that we do have biologics in storage, and we just don't know what that is. But this is all the more reason like why I'm excited to like, move forward in this new venture and the fact that we have, we have created our own autonomy and that we're going out, we have a budget, we're operating, and we're, we're in a public-private partnership. And I hope to answer all these questions. Um, uh, if all things go well,

• 2:58:40Speaker 03

  before, I'm trying not to say a date, but within the first half of 2025, we hope to do a demonstration and, and invite key members of the public from institutions, um, and demonstrate this and maybe even get something to the ground. If we can do it legally in coordination with, um, our government partners, which we have to do. We can't just go rogue and do this without them. They have to be involved. But it is likely that we'll have an opportunity to do that, and that's gonna answer a lot of questions. That would be absolutely insane. Look, man, like, the skies aren't classified. Your conscience can't be redacted. So get out there, start looking up, start looking in.

• 2:59:24Speaker 02

  No, yeah, that's part of the reason I'm here is because, you know, I just became a dad, a dad of a daughter who's three months old. And I look at this little lady and I feel like this responsibility for helping, at least to shape a positive world that heads towards progression in the right direction. And I think disclosure is a much bigger conversation that will open a lot of people's eyes. The one thing you said to me on, or us on the first phone call we had, is, you know, people talk about this feeling of ontological shock, where it's like, it's really hard for a lot of people to face the reality that their entire worldview is being challenged. And I certainly felt that. But one thing you said that I liked

• 3:00:09Speaker 02

  was, you like to think of it as ontological relief.

• 3:00:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:00:12Speaker 02

  Where it's like, actually, some of the questions about like, when I look up in the sky, it's like, what, what am I? What are we? How are we here? You know, at least,

• 3:00:23Speaker 02

  there's like, like some semblance of answers, or something a little more that's explained. That actually makes me go, huh, all right, it's making a little bit more sense than it was before.

• 3:00:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, and it's something like giving up atheism when you become a parent, because you're like, this can't be all. I can't be the smartest person in the room. I can't be the richest or most influential, influential person in the room. I can't be the most powerful person in the room. This is for the president when he goes to sleep at night. Like, I'm not qualified. Like, I need there to be more. I need there to be deeper meaning. I need there to be more connection between us. Because every person, even the bad guys that we run into in life, at one time, we're just an innocent little baby, and there's something sweet and meaningful in every human. And that's what this whole thing offers. Like, as woo woo as that sounds, like...

• 3:01:19Speaker 03

  That's the best thing that could be harvested by acknowledging this. And it's got this cold, military, political, industrial stigma attached to it. But that's not it. It's not about flying equipment. Like, can we get in a flying saucer and get to London in two minutes? Or could we get there yesterday? Because now we know... Screw all that. The real implications are way more powerful. And it's realizing that there is something else out there that's maybe not extra at all. It's something that's part of us. It's like outer space versus inner space is all the same. And so I hope there's something really beautiful on the other side of this,

• 3:02:04Speaker 03

  which is why we need more people involved. We need religious communities involved. We need the leftist, most tree-hugging spiritual people to get into this thing that's been controlled and been locked up by the most tyrannical, right-wing-leaning people.

• 3:02:24Jesse Michels?

  This is, to me, one of the most important stories in a millennium, let alone a century, because it should make everybody question core ontological truths. And like you said, hopefully, open their eyes to a broader reality that is, I think, expansive and exciting. So, thank you, man.

• 3:02:45Speaker 03

  Well, thank you. The pleasure's mine. And let's make sure we get this out there so that future generations aren't having to rediscover this thing all over again.

• 3:02:54Jesse Michels?

  Let's do it.

• 3:03:00Jesse Michels?

  Huge news, everyone. We've been sitting on a ton of unreleased footage that we will now be releasing weekly in our new WAP. Our first episode is a completely uncut, heated discussion between Hal Puthoff and Eric Weinstein on remote viewing. Yeah, you heard that right. I still can't believe I experienced that firsthand, and now I'm happy to share it with you all as our first exclusive video on WAP. Head over to wap.com slash American Alchemy Premium to become a premium member today. By becoming a member, you'll gain access to weekly premium videos, behind-the-scenes footage, and monthly group calls where we discuss the ideas we love most. Plus, you'll get early access to merchandise drops and be the first to know about the upcoming

• 3:03:43Jesse Michels?

  conference we'll be holding later in 2025. Our WAP community will serve as a private space where curious individuals and tech enthusiasts can come together to challenge the status quo and explore ideas shaping our future. If you're passionate about exploring unconventional ideas and want to dive even deeper into our content, I invite you to join our WAP today. Head over to wap.com/americanalchemypremium to become a premium member today.