Pod Insights Pop Culture Happy Hour The Worst Christmas Movies About this episode ‘Tis the season you’ll find plenty of good holiday movies – films that can be counted upon to deliver warmth and cheer. And bad holiday movies? They can be fun in their own way. So we’re debating: what’s the worst Christmas movie of all time? We’ll talk about Love Actually, Jingle All The Way, I Believe In Santa, and Scrooge & Marley.
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Transcript 4,684 words · 10 speakers
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0:00 Speaker 00 This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.
0:19 Speaker 01 The holiday season means holiday movies, films that can be counted upon to deliver warmth and holiday cheer, also probably some snow, a little bit of magic, and grumpy slash greedy slash workaholic protagonists who need to be reminded of the true meaning of Christmas.
0:35 Stephen Thompson? Good holiday movies can be great, but bad holiday movies, they can be fun in their own way. Maybe they serve up tired cliches or schmaltzy sentiment. Or maybe, if it's love actually, they just do Emma Thompson really dirty. I'm Stephen Thompson.
0:51 Speaker 01 And I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're debating the worst Christmas movies on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
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2:08 Speaker 01 Joining us today is our co-host Aisha Harris. Seasons greetings, Ayesha.
2:11 Aisha Harris? Simply having one.
2:14 Speaker 01 Oh, God, no.
2:15 Aisha Harris? Oh, sorry. I thought we were doing worst holiday songs. Sorry, sorry. Hi, Glenn.
2:22 Speaker 01 You gotta read the brief. Also with us is Wayland Wong. She's the co-host of NPR's daily economics podcast, The Indicator from Planet Money. Happy Christmas, Wayland.
2:32 Speaker 05 Ho, ho, ho.
2:33 Speaker 01 Ho, ho, ho. OK, before we get to our picks, parents, if you're listening with small children, be warned, we are going to be talking about Santa. So take that into consideration. But let's get right to it. We've each picked a film that we're nominating as the worst Christmas movie of all time. Stephen, kick us off.
2:49 Stephen Thompson? Well, I considered a few different possibilities here. I thought like, what would be the least appropriate Christmas movie to watch with your family? That would be Baby Girl. I thought about, what is the Christmas movie to get a 0% on Rotten Tomatoes? That would be the 2010 Nutcracker, but it is not streaming anywhere. So I just went with a movie I hate.
3:11 Speaker 01 OK.
3:12 Stephen Thompson? And that movie, it is called Chingle All the Way.
3:16 Speaker 01 Here we go.
3:17 Aisha Harris? This is a candidate for me, too.
3:20 Stephen Thompson? So when you break down like, what can make a Christmas movie bad? I don't think you can come up with a better metric than purports to satireize or comment upon commercialism while being 100% steeped in it and refusing really to undermine it in any way. The plot of this film can be summed up literally like five words. Man wants toy for size. This film has enough material for a skit, maybe a 22-minute episode of a sitcom, but it is stretched out to 90 minutes full of digressions. Arnold Schwarzenegger is your star. Sinbad is his kind of sort of rival.
4:03 Aisha Harris? Poor Sinbad.
4:04 Speaker 01 Sinbad era.
4:05 Aisha Harris? Brutal.
4:05 Stephen Thompson? Poor Sinbad. Sinbad is the person to whom Arnold Schwarzenegger says in all the trailers for this movie, "Oh, poor baby. Oh, poor baby." Which is a nice hint going into this film. That this guy's a jerk.
4:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
4:19 Stephen Thompson? The only thing this film is missing as far as the tropes of 90s comedies that it is falling back on over and over again. The only thing it is missing is he does not curl a cellphone into a body of water.
4:31 Speaker 01 There we go.
4:31 Stephen Thompson? At the end of this film, because that is all it is missing. This is part of the colossally large genre of 90s family comedies about terrible fathers.
4:42 Speaker 01 But does he learn the true meaning of Christmas? Is that the arc here? I've never seen this film. I never will. Does he change?
4:47 Stephen Thompson? Honestly, very little lesson learning at the end of this film. The only person in this film who winds up having any kind of perspective on any of this is the little kid, played by Jake Lloyd, who would go on to play Anakin Skywalker and then leave acting. This is such a bad movie. What's wild about it is it does what I think some kind of darker Christmas movies are trying to do, which is it makes Christmas look like a total bummer.
5:14 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:15 Stephen Thompson? Mm hmm. None of this looks fun for anybody. It also totally wastes Phil Hartman. Phil Hartman has a ton of scenes, none of which are funny.
5:22 Speaker 01 That's a crime.
5:23 Speaker 05 His character is so weird and creepy in this movie.
5:26 Aisha Harris? Yeah. This is one of those movies that I blame for all the movies that came after it, which were usually about adults just getting too competitive about Christmas. And it's like, oh, who has the best Christmas lights? Who just Christmas the best? And there were a string of movies that came after that. And I feel like this is kind of ground zero for that. And I have not seen it since I was a child, but even as a child, I hated it so much. I'm glad you chose this, Stephen.
5:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:52 Stephen Thompson? Oh.
5:52 Speaker 01 Did this film walk so that Christmas with the Cranks could run? Is that what you're saying, Asian?
5:57 Aisha Harris? Yes, exactly. Christmas with the Cranks with Jamie Lee Curtis and Tim Allen and Dan Aykroyd. It's like, oh, God, no, no, no.
6:04 Stephen Thompson? Also, did you all know that Jingle All the Way has a sequel?
6:09 Speaker 01 Oh, boy.
6:09 Stephen Thompson? From 2014. Does it have any of the same actors? It does not. It has Larry the Cable Guy.
6:16 Speaker 05 Oh, Lord.
6:17 Speaker 01 Oh, see? From the Sid Bet era to Larry the Cable Guy era.
6:23 Aisha Harris? Yeah, yeah.
6:24 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, you did make a good case for this terrible movie, so I appreciate that.
6:32 Aisha Harris? Ayesha, what's your pick? Can you top that? OK, so like I said, Jingle All the Way was definitely a candidate for this exercise. But then I realized that I would have to actually re-watch that movie because it's been so long and I was like, I don't want to. So instead I chose something that I've seen more recently that is more stuck in my mind. I have talked about before on this show how I have a pretty high tolerance for like bad Christmas romantic comedies. Like, that is my genre. I can enjoy them no matter, almost no matter what. This is an exception, and this is something I have also talked about on the show. But I'm going to talk about this a little bit more deeply here. And that movie is the 2022, straight to Netflix, rom-com, I Believe in Santa. No, I hate the title. The title I hate already.
7:17 Aisha Harris? Oh, Glenn, Glenn, you wouldn't even make it through the first 10 minutes of this movie.
7:24 Aisha Harris? Somehow I made it through the whole thing. This is like, what if Elf or Miracle on 31st Street were like creepy AF? Because that is what the premise of this movie is. Basically, you have these two people. Lisa, she is a writer for a local newspaper.
7:41 Speaker 05 Sorry, it's called Mile High Ezine. I like freeze frames on it.
7:46 Aisha Harris? Yes, yes. And so she is a writer for a local newspaper. The only assignment she seems to get are holiday-related. She loves 4th of July. That is her holiday. That is her jam. It opens with her writing an article about how 4th of July is like the best holiday. Then she meets Tom. Tom is a lawyer who loves Christmas. And they have a fun, fun little courtship. She's a single mom. At the end of that, like, courtship, we hit Christmas season and she discovers that Tom is obsessed. He has a photo wall where you can pose in front of it in elaborate Christmas setting with props in his house. Every day has at least one Christmas-related activity. He's a lawyer. I don't know when he's actually doing work.
8:29 Aisha Harris? I don't know how he has time for this, but he does. Is there a montage where the two carouse around town and show off a bunch of tacky Christmas sweaters hanging on an outdoor display rack?
8:39 Speaker 06 My parents never really had fun, ever.
8:44 Speaker 06 Maybe it's because none of them was wearing this.
8:47 Aisha Harris? And is that montage set to a festive instrumental version of the 2013 trash-tastic EDM hit Feel This Moment by Pitbull featuring Christina Aguilera? Yes, and yes. Is there a performance by a knockoff Pentatonix, aka multi-ethnic mixed-gender a cappella group? Yes.
9:12 Aisha Harris? But here's the kicker, is that she eventually finds out that he's been hiding a secret, that he actually believes Santa is real. It's right there in the title. How much of his secret is it?
9:23 Stephen Thompson? She didn't see the title card.
9:24 Aisha Harris? Yeah. So basically, this movie sets up this whole thing where it's like, it's a crisis of faith, of faith in Santa Claus. And he gives all of these reasons why, like, oh, you know, most of the world celebrates Christmas. She asks all of the logical questions you would ask. Like, there's a lot of people who don't. He's like, but most people do. And also, like, it brings everyone together. He uses the universal "we" a lot to describe this. He also has a gay Muslim best friend. And he uses that friend as like a way to explain why it's okay that he believes in Santa. And I just want to take a listen to this friend, Hassan, who's played by Sachin Bhatt. And here he is giving his rationalization for why they are friends and why it works.
10:06 Speaker 07 The only difference between religion and Santa is that as we get older, religious grownups tell us that our faith was right all along. But they don't have proof either. They just tell us that the stories we believe are true. But with Santa, the grownups are there to tell you that the stories are not true. And Tom just chose not to believe the grownups.
10:25 Aisha Harris? Now, if you've had enough eggnog, that might actually start to make sense. But then, the more you think about it, you're like, is this movie trying to say that Tom is a persecuted minority because he believes in Santa Claus? My goodness. It's a protected class. It's a protected class. So this movie is just ridiculous enough. But on top of that, the rom-com of it all is just not at all believable. These two have no chemistry. They look like they would be the villains in a horror movie. Their eyes are very, very bright. It is a Netflix movie. I get that. Like, we're not expecting Shakespeare here. And when I learned, after watching this the first time, that Lisa and Tom are actually a real-life couple in real life.
11:04 Speaker 05 Aisha, I had the same reaction, because I turned to my husband and I said, "This couple has no chemistry." And then he went on Wikipedia and he goes, "Oh, my God!" He said, "They're married in real life." And I was like, "Oh."
11:16 Aisha Harris? Yes, Christina Moore and John Doocy play Lisa and Tom. I'm sure they're very lovely people, and I do have to give this movie points for at least trying to be a little bit progressive. You know, gay Muslim best friend. Lisa has a black best friend. Like, you know, standard stuff. The reason I say that this movie is probably one of the worst movies I've ever seen is just this idea of, like, tolerance being applied to something as silly as this, but also giving, I think, unintentional cover to all the other things that we should not really be tolerating. Like, it's one thing to try and be friends with someone, and maybe it's agree with them. But if you're actually trying to date someone and introduce them to your child and all these other things, I need Lisa to have higher standards than this. Just accept that that's not gonna work.
12:00 Aisha Harris? But of course, at the end, it does, and they accept each other. Oh, my God, y'all. It's just really bad.
12:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I'm sorry, we have to go into spoiler territory here. Do we ever actually meet Santa in the world of this film? Does Santa actually exist? Or is it left to us to decide? That's a good question. Does this film believe in Santa? Yeah.
12:20 Aisha Harris? The only inkling that Santa actually exists is one of the very last shots of the film, where they leave cookies and milk out for Santa. But like, you don't actually see a hand come out, like, you know, like a hand glove. Like, you just see like a little, like a very light rustling in the fireplace, and that's it.
12:37 Speaker 01 It leaves it open-ended. It's the top at the end of Inception. Yes.
12:41 Speaker 05 The kind of bonkers thing is there actually is proof for whether Santa exists. And it is, do presents show up under the tree that your parents didn't get you? So there actually is a pretty straightforward way to prove whether Santa is real or not. But they pitch it like this cosmic mystery that you can never get to the bottom of. And then the whole thing is like, the child, who, by the way, is played by the kid From Meghan.
13:04 Speaker 01 Okay.
13:04 Aisha Harris? Oh, right. I was wondering why she looks familiar. Yes.
13:08 Speaker 05 Violet McGraw is the kid from Meghan. And she's been asking for an iPhone this whole movie. And her mom is like, absolutely not. You're not getting an iPhone. And then at the end of the movie, she unwraps an iPhone. And I think the movie is supposed to be like, Santa brought her this iPhone.
13:23 Aisha Harris? I forgot about that. Yes.
13:24 Speaker 05 It's honestly very bonkers. And I think that the only way to even stomach this film is to think of it as taking place in the Meghan universe, where Tom and Leah have been dying in a tragic accident. And Violet McGraw's character has to go live with her aunt, played by Alison Williams, and then has like a misadventure with technology.
13:42 Aisha Harris? Yeah.
13:43 Stephen Thompson? I just want to back up even further to the very, very, very beginning of when Ayesha started talking about this. She's into July 4th?
13:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:51 Stephen Thompson? And that contradicts being into Christmas?
13:54 Speaker 05 It's so weird.
13:56 Aisha Harris? Yeah. And she also gets upset with her, her boss for assigning her to write about Christmas. She's like, you know, I hate Christmas. And he's like, but that's a challenge. Like, I wanted you to like, stretch your, and I'm like, oh, my God, this is reminding me.
14:08 Stephen Thompson? Also, you have literally nothing else to write about.
14:10 Speaker 01 Exactly.
14:11 Speaker 05 I would say that if you love Mayfair TV holiday rom coms, and you want to watch a pretty good July 4th one, I would recommend When Sparks Fly, starring Meghan Markle, which is at my public library. You might be able to get it from your public library. It's pretty good.
14:27 Aisha Harris? Oh, my goodness. Thank you.
14:29 Speaker 05 You're welcome.
14:30 Speaker 01 I'm not gonna lie, I haven't seen either of these films. And this one sounds worse than Jingle All the Way, Stephen, so I don't know.
14:36 Stephen Thompson? Oh, I don't know.
14:37 Aisha Harris? I promise you, it just might be. So, yes, that is, I Believe in Santa on Netflix.
14:43 Speaker 01 Now, Waylon, I have seen this movie.
14:45 Speaker 05 I know, most people have. My pick is Love Actually, the much beloved holiday rom com from 2003, written and directed by Richard Curtis. It has this absolutely stacked cast of like, every British actor and some award-winning American actors as well. You've got Hugh Grant, Alan Rickman, Emma Thompson, Keira Knightley, Laura Linney, Colin Firth. It's amazing how many people, amazingly talented people are in this. I have resented for so long this movie getting canonized as the ultimate holiday rom com, or even a rom com, because to me, it fails as a rom com.
15:26 Speaker 05 First of all, it opens with a monologue by Hugh Grant's character. He's playing the prime minister. Where he mentions 9/11. No, thank you. Why are we talking about 9/11 in the opening minutes of a rom-com? The script is also weirdly fat-phobic.
15:41 Stephen Thompson? It's so fat-phobic.
15:42 Speaker 05 Which I realized on a re-watch, I was like, who wrote this? It's terrible. There's too many storylines and only a few of them are even a little bit romantic. Most of them are super sad or just kind of nothing burgers to me. And I will say the one thing that I really, really don't like about this movie that grinds my gears is this storyline with Keira Knightley where she's married to Chua Chua Ajafur. And then-
16:11 Stephen Thompson? This is a rough one for you.
16:12 Speaker 05 Yeah, and then his best friend is played by Andrew Lincoln and he loves her. He has been secretly yearning for her. And then he shows up, you know, at the end of their storyline with these big cue cards that she's supposed to read, you know?
16:26 Speaker 06 Oh, hi. Who is it? It's Carol Singers.
16:31 Speaker 05 And it says, like, "To me, you are perfect and it's Christmas, so I just have to tell you I love you" or whatever. And I hate this.
16:37 Stephen Thompson? Yes.
16:38 Speaker 05 I just think that it's been sold to us as the ultimate grand romantic gesture when to me it is the height of narcissism. It's so selfish.
16:50 Stephen Thompson? Keep it to yourself.
16:51 Speaker 05 Keep it to yourself, exactly. And then she runs after him and kisses him on the lips, which I also think is really inappropriate. And I guess she meant it as like, well, it's Christmas and you've just made this huge confession, so I'll give you this much. But I'm like, in real life-
17:08 Stephen Thompson? You owe him nothing.
17:09 Speaker 05 He would take this as being like, oh, she reciprocates. And then he would be obsessed with you and he would probably stalk you in a creepy way. And I can't accept this packaged and sold to me as romance. I hate it.
17:22 Aisha Harris? I can hear them, some of our listeners, furiously typing right now.
17:25 Stephen Thompson? I hear fingers on keyboards right now.
17:27 Speaker 05 I know. I know you're gonna come for me. I don't care.
17:29 Aisha Harris? This movie is now 20 plus years old at this point, right? So I feel like it's gone through its ups and downs where it was beloved. And then at some point, people turned on it. Like, there are multiple articles about how like, love actually is actually, is bad, actually. Like, it's bad, actually. It's probably come pendulum has swung back in the other direction where it's like, just let people enjoy things. But this movie, for every reason you just said, Wayland, it is just one of those movies that I think doesn't get the holiday spirit right, and it doesn't get the rom-com right. It just does it all wrong.
18:02 Speaker 05 Yeah.
18:02 Speaker 01 It fundamentally misunderstands Christmas because on one of those cue cards you mentioned, Wayland, it's written, "It's Christmas, and on Christmas, you tell the truth," which is not a thing.
18:12 Aisha Harris? Santa!
18:13 Speaker 01 In fact, if you've spent any time with your family over Christmas, you know you're all just pretending until you can leave.
18:22 Stephen Thompson? Christmas is about gentle lies.
18:24 Speaker 01 It's about lies. It's always been about lies. If you have any affection for the actor, Emma Thompson, you hate this movie.
18:30 Speaker 05 It's such a bummer. It's such a bummer what happens to her.
18:33 Stephen Thompson? Emma Thompson, Alan Rickman storyline is super rough and comes with a nice dollop of slut shaming on top of it. The "To Me, You Are Perfect" is so... The number of times I shout, "What are you doing?"
18:45 Aisha Harris? It's Ed Sheeran before Ed Sheeran existed.
18:49 Aisha Harris? It's like, this is, this is an Ed Sheeran video. This is...
18:53 Stephen Thompson? This film's obsession with this one woman's weight
18:57 Speaker 05 Oh, my gosh.
18:58 Stephen Thompson? is so weird. It is inexplicable on every level. Why do you care? What is wrong with you people?
19:06 Aisha Harris? Well, it's, it's not weird in the context of, this was also the era of Bridget Jones's Diary. This was the era of like, obsessing over how skinny Britney Spears and Paris Hilton were. Like, if you think about when it came out, this was the norm.
19:18 Stephen Thompson? I guess it was explicable, but...
19:19 Speaker 05 But unnecessary. And everyone should have known better. You know, 2003, we knew better. We knew better.
19:24 Speaker 01 All right. That's another great pick, and it, it is a very hateful movie. I don't know if it's... I mean, hate actually. All right, we're gonna go from a film that everyone's seen to a film that I guarantee none of my fellow panelists have seen. This is the 2012 film Scrooge and Marley, a gay take on A Christmas Carol set in modern day Chicago. It's streaming on Tubi as we tape this, if you want to check it out yourselves. When y'all hear that there's a gay version of A Christmas Carol, certain questions, you know, leap inevitably to mind, so let's knock them down. Number one, is it narrated by Judith Light? We'll put that to bed right away. Yes, yes, it is narrated by Judith Light. Who plays Fezziwig? Is it Bruce Valanche?
20:07 Speaker 01 Again, yes, yes, Bruce Valanche does play Fezziwig because Bruce Valanche is what happens when you can't meet Harvey Firestein's quote. Speaking of not meeting quotes, like this film was done on the cheap and it looks it. It is filmed in cramped, underlit Chicago apartments and bars. There's one gay bathhouse, Man's Country, which has since closed. In the credits, the producers thank two and only two organizations for their product placement, and they're exactly the ones you imagine. Number one, Absolute Vodka, and number two, Grindr, because of course. Now, look, we're gonna end on an up note here because I don't legitimately believe this to be the worst holiday movie of all time. It's not this bloated Hollywood vehicle for Arnold.
20:51 Speaker 01 It's not some horrible, wrong-headed ensemble piece. It doesn't even have that kind of corporate Netflix patina, right? It is a tiny, scrappy, little movie that features a lot of very hardworking Chicago actors and also features entirely randomly Tim Kaczynski. A vanishingly small percentage of you will remember from SNL, the Dick Ebersole era in the 80s. He plays the ghost of Marley in pancake makeup so bad and so thick that your high school theater teacher would take one look at it and go, yeah, take another pass at that. That's, that's too much. Less. So in this clip, Marley is visiting Scrooge, who's played by David Pevsner. He's reminding him of all the awful things they did together in life.
21:36 Speaker 08 Things we did business. Doing business is not doing living. I want you to see that you still have time to save yourself from this.
21:46 Speaker 09 I'm not concerned with any savings that don't accrue interest. Now.
21:53 Speaker 09 Begone. You have no power here.
21:56 Stephen Thompson? Why do they both sound like they're voiced by Tom Kenny?
21:59 Speaker 01 Okay. Couple things. Doing business is not doing living is not a good line. The acting, I mean, we're gonna talk like one notch above dinner theater. That's what to expect here. And at the end there, he says, you have no power here, which is a Wizard of Oz reference because gay. So Ben Scrooge owns a gay piano bar, or I should just say piano bar. Save us all some time. He hates Christmas, goes around to take him on a tour of Chicago in the past, present and future. You might remember that in the Dickens novel, Scrooge gets to fly with the ghost of Christmas past by holding on to the hem of his robe.
22:36 Aisha Harris? Yes.
22:36 Speaker 01 The gay version of that is, I don't need to tell you, by sniffing poppers.
22:41 Stephen Thompson? Oh, my gosh.
22:42 Aisha Harris? I thought we were gonna be holding on to a jockstrap. So that's a little different.
22:46 Speaker 01 You meet young Scrooge's cartoonishly homophobic dad, the boyfriend he abandons. We meet his lesbian niece Frida, Bob Cratchit and his husband and little tiny Tim, and there's no swapping here. This is little tiny Tim and his little tiny oxygen tank. We do meet a ghost of Christmas future who's played by the drag queen Jojo Baby. She is giving Club Kid by way of Victorian Undertaker. It's actually a pretty interesting look. And it's all interspersed by, wait for it, cabaret numbers, some of them achingly sincere and some of them with bawdy parody lyrics like, "Sleep in heavenly peace with the heavenly peace." See, see what they're doing there?
23:34 Speaker 01 And look, I'm not gonna lie, it's not good, but what it exudes is exactly what you expect it to exude, which is raw sincerity and sentimentality. And those are two things I'm allergic to personally, but it's doing its job, right? It's endemic to the story of A Christmas Carol. A Christmas Carol always ends nipple deep in schmaltz, right? Even when Bill Murray or Mr. Magoo doing the take on it, it's always sentimental slop. It's just doing it in this, you know, expressly by and for a very niche audience. He'd been pretty critical up to now. I'm gonna end on an up note, and I think it's entirely possible that someone who does not have a desiccated husk where a heart should be could even enjoy this film. I don't think it's likely. But I think it's entirely possible.
24:19 Stephen Thompson? Well, then Glenn, it sounds like you have failed at this assignment.
24:22 Speaker 01 I think I did, you know? I kind of saw that it existed and I checked it out. And it's nothing I would watch voluntarily, but I would never watch any version of A Christmas Carol voluntarily because that.
24:32 Speaker 05 Not even the Muppets one?
24:34 Speaker 01 Not even the Muppets one, I'm sorry, folks. I'm sorry, folks.
24:37 Speaker 05 Oh, no.
24:38 Speaker 01 No, can't do it, can't do it.
24:39 Speaker 05 No cheeses for us, Mises?
24:41 Speaker 01 I gotta be me.
24:43 Stephen Thompson? I do think that of these four, Jingle All the Way is the one Glenn would hate the most.
24:49 Speaker 01 I don't know. Ayesha made a pretty good case.
24:52 Aisha Harris? I believe in Santa, I think is competing there. But maybe you won, Stephen. Maybe you won for actual worst, worst, worst.
24:58 Speaker 05 You might have.
24:59 Speaker 01 I don't think we're going to be able to determine it here. I think we're going to have to send it to the listeners to determine which of these four do they think is the worst holiday movie? And then also, we want to know what you think is the worst holiday movie of all time. Your own picks. Find us at facebook.com slash PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Stephen Thompson, Aisha Harris, Waylon Wong, thank you so much for being here. Thank you.
25:21 Aisha Harris? Thank you.
25:22 Speaker 05 Thank you.
25:22 Speaker 01 This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Carly Rubin, and Mike Katz. It's been edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy, and Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Glen Weldon, and we'll see you all next time.
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