Tim Cook Sat Out the AI Race — Will the New CEO Pay the Price?

Ed Elson speaks with Patrick McGee and Tripp Mickle about what Apple’s next chapter looks like now that Tim Cook is officially stepping down. They discuss what he got right, where he fell short, and what investors should expect from Apple’s new CEO, John Ternus. Finally, Ed shares his perspective on Tim Cook’s long-term legacy and what it means for Apple’s future. Patrick McGee is an award-winning journalist and author of Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company. Tripp Mickle is a tech reporter for the New York Times, and author of After Steve: How Apple Became a Trillion-Dollar Company and Lost Its Soul. Get your tickets to the Prof G Markets Tour Subscribe to the Prof G Markets Youtube Channel Check out our latest Prof G Markets newsletter Follow Prof G Markets on Instagram Follow Ed on Instagram, X and Substack Follow Scott on Instagram Send us your questions or comments by emailing [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:29Ed Elson?

  Today's number, nine. That's how many four and five star generals have been fired by this administration, almost as many as the 150 years prior. When asked for comment, Secretary Pete Hegseth said he's, quote, "trying to be the shepherd." We later reached out to Quentin Tarantino to find out what that meant.

• 1:51Speaker 06

  Money markets, Matt. If money is evil, then that building is hell.

• 2:01Ed Elson?

  Welcome to Frosty Markets. I'm Ed Elson. It is April 22nd. Let's check in on yesterday's market vitals. The major indices declined as Iran talks stalled around market close. Trump announced the ceasefire was extended indefinitely and the blockade would be maintained. Brent crude rose and Treasury yields climbed as Federal Reserve Chair nominee Kevin Walsh testified before the Senate Banking Committee. During the hearing, Walsh called for reforms at the Fed, suggesting he'd make changes to the agency's inflation models and communication style. He also dodged questions about Lisa Cook and the Jerome Powell probe and declined to acknowledge that President Trump lost the 2020 election.

• 2:43Ed Elson?

  Still, regarding Fed independence, he said, quote, "The president never asked me to predetermine, commit, fix, decide on any interest rate decision in any of our discussions, nor would I ever agree to do so."

• 2:59Ed Elson?

  Okay, what else is happening? After 15 years as CEO of Apple, Tim Cook is officially stepping down. During Cook's tenure, Apple's revenue almost quadrupled and its market value increased by about $3.6 trillion. On September 1st, Cook will be transitioning to the role of Executive Chairman and he'll hand the CEO reins to John Ternus, Apple's Head of Hardware Engineering. Ternus has spent 25 years, half his life, at the company overseeing the hardware behind every major Apple product. The transition marks the start of a new era for Apple with plenty of unanswered questions about what comes next.

• 3:40Ed Elson?

  So, here to discuss what this moment means for Apple and for the future of this company, we are joined by a panel of experts. Patrick McGee, award-winning journalist and author of "Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company," and also Tripp Mickle, tech reporter for The New York Times and author of "After Steve: How Apple Became a Trillion Dollar Company and Lost Its Soul." Patrick, Trip, thank you very much for joining us on Prof G Markets. So Cook is departing, Ternus is taking over. I want to start with a look at Tim Cook and his career. Patrick, I'll start with you. Tim was CEO for 15 years.

• 4:22Ed Elson?

  I mean, when we look back at this, what will we say about what he did for the company? What will the history books of business say about his legacy at Apple?

• 4:32Speaker 07

  Well, you're already thinking about it the way I think about it. I mean, look, I think if you if you're looking at it from 2026, it is hard to fault this guy. As you said, $3.6 trillion added to Apple's market cap. You know, he clearly fulfilled whatever tasks Steve Jobs set him out to do. His his role was not necessarily to come up with breakthrough products. It was iterate what Steve Jobs had already come up with on a global scale. You know, he squeezed every penny that was really available in the supply chain. He he built up services. He he put Apple into new areas like Apple TV and a host of things like that. You know, he's getting $20 billion of profit per year just out of the Google relationship, right? Just sort of the using the user base in in Apple's favor.

• 5:14Speaker 07

  So, I mean, all kinds of things, but what you're pointing to is where will we see this 10 years from now? And that, to me, is the most interesting question because, you know, Ben Thompson of Strategy has put this with a nice metaphor. He sort of laid time bombs for the next CEO, which is to say the China risk could really blow up and we can go into more detail there. And he's not invested really much at all into data centers for AI. That might be the right move, but if it turns out to be the wrong move, Apple would be years behind the companies that people have been fawning over the last few years with appropriate acclaim.

• 5:46Ed Elson?

  Yeah, we will definitely get to China and we'll definitely get to AI trip. I just want to get your initial reactions. What do you make of Tim Cook stepping down? How do you think he'll be remembered?

• 5:55Speaker 08

  Patrick's right. We can we can make a call today as as on how he's done over the past 15 years and say, clearly, he'll be remembered today as the most successful successor to an accomplished executive, to a founder. I mean, what what Tim Cook did is rare, whether you're talking about the world of business or sports or even politics. If you have somebody who's kind of a figurehead in the same way Steve Jobs was, seldom do you have somebody come along behind them and continue or sustain that success. I mean, I, you know, if you're a college football fan, nobody followed Bear Bryant for decades until Mick Saban came along, right?

• 6:38Speaker 08

  Like, you skip generations and Tim Cook, he wasn't a miss. Despite what people thought out of the gate. But there's another question about Tim and that's based on the lack of new products, right? I mean, Apple is still really living off the iPhone and off the products that it's stitched on to the iPhone that have made the iPhone stickier than even it was when it was first released. And the question will be whether or not it runs out of momentum eventually and whether or not his successor can can succeed in innovating again and delivering a new product that that potentially adds to the company's prospects for the future.

• 7:18Ed Elson?

  I mean, when we look at what he did well, it's easiest to just start with the numbers where he took a $350 billion company and turned it into a $4 trillion company. He increased revenue 300%, he increased profits 350%. But when we look at like the decisions that he made and the things that he actually did to achieve those numbers, Trip, what do you think he got right? Like, what were his big wins over the course of the career, his career? And then we'll return to what the future will look like. But what do you think he got right?

• 7:55Speaker 08

  There are two signature things that I think he did that really changed the trajectory for Apple. And the first was striking a China mobile deal two years after taking over as as CEO of the company. He'd spent a long time working on that. It changed Apple's trajectory in China. It unlocked the iPhone in China and turned China not just from a market that made and produced the iPhone, but it turned Apple into a company that really captured sales from the rising middle class in China. And that's really become a bedrock of their business. And also, to Patrick's point earlier, it's a precarious, you know, part of their business as well

• 8:36Speaker 08

  because of the global, the geopolitical circumstances and the adversarial relationship today between the US and China. And then the second thing he did was he looked at the iPhone and he said, okay, well, how do we make more money off a product that now is in the pockets of a billion people around the world? And he leaned into services in 2019 and made that a focus of the company's business. He launched new services that drew attention to that, including like TV plus. And, you know, a credit card. He elbowed Apple into new areas so that it can make more money. Just because of the sheer heft and the number of people who own the iPhone.

• 9:17Ed Elson?

  Yeah. Patrick, I'd be curious to hear if you have anything to add on to that and potentially. But my follow up is what do you think he got wrong?

• 9:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, no, the getting wrong stuff is obviously more interesting. And I suppose maybe I would point to so two things. One, there's just like the clear failure. So, you know, they worked on an Apple car for 10 years and then abandoned the project.

• 9:39Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 9:39Speaker 07

  I honestly hem and haw about whether or not one should point that out as a major disaster. Tim Cook's line about it was that we like to fail internally. And honestly, I can respect that. They, they put a lot of engineering talent into it. And at the end of the day, decided not to do it. I, I don't know that we should hold his feet to the fire for that. You know, but it's, it's worth thinking about. The other one is, is the Vision Pro. I mean, I did the Vision Pro demo and was in awe of this thing. Somehow convinced my spouse to let me get 20, $3,500 to spend on the device. And after six days, took it back. I was writing my book at the time. I thought this is going to be the first book ever written in the Vision Pro. And within six days, I realized this thing's useless. You can't have it on your head for more than 45 minutes. It's an engineering marvel, but it's basically a disaster as, as, as a product.

• 10:23Speaker 07

  And, and, you know, no pun intended, it lacks vision. I mean, that's, that's Tim Cook. The engineering talent in the company can build a great product, but it doesn't have an ecosystem. I don't think Tim Cook's much of a partnerships guy. He's not really a win-win partnerships guy. He's an Apple takes all guy. And I think that really sort of came home when they tried to build this new platform in Vision OS. Companies like YouTube and Netflix had no interest in building, in building for it. So, you know, that, that's a failure. But the, but the bigger one is I think the failures are more intangible. Trip will know as well as me, if you go find people that worked at Apple for 20 or 30 years, people who really understood the difference between the Steve Jobs era and the Tim Cook era. You know, there's just a lack of inspiration. Um, there's just a lack of hunger.

• 11:04Speaker 07

  The people leading Apple all are all are worth hundreds of millions of dollars through their stock options. Um, you know, they just don't have the appetite to take on major projects like they used to. And you'll have someone that comes out of Caltech with brilliant expertise. And what are they doing? They're doing the iPad magnets for two and a half years before calling it quits or something, right? It's just, it's a huge company and I don't know fundamentally, just the honest statement. I don't know if it's just the nature of a company that size or if it's Tim Cook's pedigree and risk aversion that just sort of makes the company a little bit dull, predictable and more like a utility than it ever has been.

• 11:42Speaker 08

  Yeah, I mean, I just to elaborate on that.

• 11:44Ed Elson?

  Yeah, please.

• 11:45Speaker 08

  Uh, you know, one of the things Patrick's getting at here too is that what Tim did over time was turn Apple into a juggernaut, a giant machine, right? Where operations had a bigger voice in product development. And some of that was necessity, right? They're making 200 million iPhones a year. You have to make sure that you hit certain deadlines to be able to deliver those iPhones. But those, the, the kind of, the rigidness of those deadlines closed some of the creativity possibilities for people who had once developed these products in a more nimble fashion. And that's locked them into the product lineup they have. And, and to Patrick's point, made it hard to be as innovative as they once were.

• 12:27Speaker 08

  And to, to people from the outside looking in, it's led to accusations that Apple's like more uninspired.

• 12:34Ed Elson?

  Is this part of the AI problem here? I mean, we talked about the fact that Apple is basically the only company that is not investing hundreds of billions of dollars into AI infrastructure. I mean, look at Amazon, its capex is expected to reach $200 billion this year. For, for Google, it's close to that 175. And then Apple is going to spend only $14 billion. They're actually cutting their spending. Um, is that? I mean, what does that say about the company? Is that because they don't have vision? Or is it because they have discipline? I mean, what are we to make of that? And where is Tim Cook? How does he play into that, Patrick?

• 13:18Speaker 07

  So I think it's pretty nuanced because on the one hand, Apple would like to say, hey, we can just be the hardware engineering company. Someone's going to build out massive data centers, you know, if it's OpenAI, if it's Claude, fine. But they're going to use the iPhone to access it. And meanwhile, we'll actually collect 15 to 30% of every subscription, you know, supporting that ecosystem. I mean, in that sense, it's brilliant. But the nuance there also is that Apple had the first mover advantage with Siri. I mean, Siri is pre Alexa. It's pre any of this by a decade and they completely squandered the potential. So the question is just going to be, what sort of revolution is AI?

• 13:56Speaker 07

  And if you, if you, if you listen to Demis Hassabis and Elon Musk and all these people, I mean, if they are almost like half right about how much potential there is here, that it's the biggest, you know, change to computing since the web, if not much larger than that. Then it's a strange place to be for like the world's most iconic company that has this creative, you know, five decade history behind it to basically not be involved and just be a sort of passive vehicle for other people's AI systems. On the other hand, it's possible that, you know, they do just sort of ride this out, let every other, every other company spend and just take the sort of Google partnership where they have, where like they are literally being paid to be the vehicle.

• 14:37Speaker 07

  And, you know, nobody really asks these days, why doesn't Apple have their own Google competitor? It's kind of a nonsensical question and possibly AI is like that. And so I sort of hate to say, time will tell, we just don't know. But I think that's the most honest answer.

• 14:50Ed Elson?

  Yeah, Trip, do you agree?

• 14:52Speaker 08

  Yeah, certainly. I mean, they took their eye off the ball in Siri and that was never, you know, part of the business, a product that they prioritize. And therefore they weren't really in a position to step into the AI race in a, in a competitive fashion, because it just wasn't a, a muscle that they built up over time. And as a result, you know, they wound up in this position of getting scared internally about what AI, the threat AI posed to them, the fact that this could be a technological revolution that creates a new operating system that that breaks up the kind of the connective tissue between iOS and the iPhone, that kind of software hardware experience

• 15:34Speaker 08

  that we're all accustomed to, that's part of the iPhone's magic. They were scared by that. And so they threw out their best shot at developing AI and it just backfired. I mean, they've kind of backed into this position of, you know, waiting and seeing what will happen, in part because they missed out of the gate with what they developed. And as Patrick said, that that leaves them in this position of having to wait to see how it will play out rather than actually dictating on their terms what happens to their business in this AI race.

• 16:05Ed Elson?

  Stay tuned for more of this panel after the break. And by the way, we are heading out on tour at the end of May. So for more info and to get tickets to a show near you, head to profitemarketstour.com.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 16:53Speaker 01

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• 17:56Ed Elson?

  We're back with Profty Markets. So Trip, let's talk about the new CEO, John Ternus. He's been the head of hardware engineering. He spent 25 years at the company. What do we know about this guy? And what do we think of him? Is he the right pick?

• 18:11Speaker 08

  I mean, John has been at Apple pretty much since the infancy of his career. He spent four years at a, you know, virtual reality company before he landed there. And he landed in an engineering role and quickly showed himself to be a good manager. He was just really good at working with colleagues, with people. And that is part of the reason that over time he was given more and more responsibility. He was put on a leadership track very early. And he's had staying power there in part because he learned how to operate in Tim Cook's Apple in a way that helped him really shine. I mean, one of the anecdotes we heard about in our reporting was when Apple was looking

• 18:55Speaker 08

  at bringing facial recognition to the iPhone. And they were debating after they had done that, whether or not to bring it to some future devices around 2018. And he argued they should wait in part because he didn't think people who'd be buying those devices, it was going to be an augmented reality capability. He didn't think people who were buying those less expensive devices would gravitate to that technology. They should just wait, provide that to people who wanted early technology at a higher end price point, and then provide it to other people downstream later. And that's kind of speaking Tim Cook's language, you know? It's a very tactical decision and approach to the marketplace.

• 19:39Speaker 08

  And those type of decisions are what helped him emerge as the, kind of really the obvious candidate to succeed Tim.

• 19:47Ed Elson?

  Yeah, it sounds like maybe he's got kind of a conservative approach, which seems like it was also Tim Cook's approach, too. Patrick, I mean, you you wrote a book on on Apple's relationship to China, and it seems as though China is a big part of the story now. I mean, their supply chains are incredibly entrenched in China. They have this huge consumer base in China. It also relates to the company's relationship to the president. I mean, there's all of this geopolitical crap that you have to deal with in that role now. It's not just about making cool products and selling them and and talking about them on a stage with a turtleneck. What do you make of what his approach will likely be when it comes to China?

• 20:31Ed Elson?

  And also, when it comes to politics in general, like, what what's on his plate here?

• 20:38Speaker 07

  So let me say one thing about John Ternus, and then I'll come back to China. I was talking to someone yesterday who knows Ternus well and worked with them. And he said, you know, Ternus actually has more of an opportunity to be a cowboy here, meaning to shoot from the hip and to be a lot more playful, in part because the other announcement yesterday is that Johnny Shrooge is becoming Chief Hardware Officer. So that was a separate press release. Johnny Shrooge is the guy who basically since 2008 has has been overseeing Apple silicon. Apple silicon is probably the biggest development at Apple in the last five years. So, you know, from, I think, the iPhone four onwards, they had displaced, you know, Samsung and were designing their own chips for the iPhone. But since 2019, I think it is, they they took over the computers as well. So Intel has been totally taken

• 21:21Speaker 07

  out. You know, Apple has their own design chip studio that that has sort of taken over and and really put the competition on the back foot. They've even displaced Qualcomm in some of their chips and build that in house. So major, major development. Shrooge was reported to be thinking of leaving last year. And so it's interesting that now he's being elevated into this position that didn't exist before, because I think it tells you, it tells me, I mean, Trip, I don't know what your spidey sense is on this, or if you have direct reporting on it. But my sense is that that reporting was probably genuine and that the result of that is that, no, he's not the CEO, but he's now in the C suite. So he's not just replacing Ternus as the hardware chief, he's getting an elevated role.

• 22:01Ed Elson?

  Right.

• 22:01Speaker 07

  And so what this person was telling me was that Ternus will have more leeway to be a cowboy with the understanding that Shrooge backs him up and brings the rigor, cleans up whatever mess is made and so forth. So they might have this sort of dynamic duo quite element to it.

• 22:16Ed Elson?

  Is that the, just, just to go with that, is that the right move? Does Apple need a cowboy right now? I mean, it sounds from what you're saying and for what Tripp said, I mean, Tripp's book is about Apple losing its soul. Maybe that's what the company needs.

• 22:29Speaker 07

  Well, I think Tripp and I are both these people who long for the days of, you know, the 1997 and 2007 decade where Apple just shocked the world with one more thing year after year.

• 22:41Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 22:41Speaker 07

  Who doesn't want that? And where I sort of get, you know, internally debating just myself on is, is, is that just pure nostalgia? That has no place in today's Apple? Is the company just too big to really have that? And I don't know. I think within the confines of what Apple is, John Ternus sounds like the sort of guy who actually does, can take on a little more risk. Maybe within the Tim Cook organization, he hasn't been known for that. Certainly he's not a risk taker in the way that, that Steve Jobs was, but I don't think he's so averse to it. The way that Tim Cook really is. I mean, that, that's sort of a defining quality of Tim Cook, just how conservative,

• 23:18Ed Elson?

  Right.

• 23:18Speaker 07

  sort of calm and cool he is about it. So I love the idea. I don't know if this person's right, but they know Ternus and they say that, you know, he's sort of itching to do a lot more. You know, this is someone who plays with go karts and engineers them in spare time, seeing if a titanium go kart is going to be better than the aluminum one that he has in his garage. That's just not Tim Cook, right? So he's more of a tinkerer. And the fact that he's into racing just sort of tells you a little bit about his temperament. You know, Tim, Tim Cook's into hiking.

• 23:46Ed Elson?

  That is an important detail. I want to return to China for a moment. What's he going to do about China? Are we going to see him? Giving gold plaques and gifts to the president like we saw with the previous guy.

• 23:58Speaker 07

  Be better. That's the precedent. Yeah, I mean, so obviously for me, you know, this is my, this is my issue. This is the thing that I think most about and the, it basically depends on future events. I hate to start, stop, start, keep repeating myself, but with Tim Cook, um, the issue is that Tim Cook is not leaving the company. He's the executive chairman and so sort of any journalist with a sense of other corporations, uh, you know, histories has to immediately think, is that brilliance because John, John Ternus needs a helping hand? And how do you deal with Brussels, Beijing and Washington? I mean, how do you deal with Trump? I mean, anyone could use an internship from Tim Cook on how to do that. Absolutely. But do you have a sort of dual CEO position? Like what happens?

• 24:40Speaker 07

  You know, like, uh, if there's a major world crisis involving China and Tim, Tim Cook has a different decision-making process or a different, um, just notion of what should, what should happen than John Ternus? Well, who makes the call? Um, you know, the, the lucky thing would just be that they don't have to have that sort of debate. But, you know, in the case of, uh, Disney, you know, Bob Iger steps, steps down and a month later COVID takes place. Um, you know, and all hell breaks loose. And I think within two years or so, Bob Iger is back at the company. There is many companies who just have not been able to nail this structure where the CEO of a long time company, uh, you know, 15 years in the case of Cook, uh, elevates to, to, to, uh, executive chairman and is able to really let the new CEO, you know, earn their reputation and take different decisions.

• 25:22Speaker 07

  And, you know, frankly, I think some of the Cook, um, last 15 years needs to be undone. Right? Uh, I think they need to be doing far more in India. I think they need to rethink whether they should have bigger operations in Mexico. But if you're trying to make those decisions and the executive chairman is the very person who put Apple into the current predicament, uh, that is not an easy position to be. So I don't know what their relationship is, but you know, it basically just depends on whether it's going to be a tumultuous global economy in the next five years or a calm one.

• 25:52Ed Elson?

  Yeah. Trip, what do you think success for John Ternus would look like? Like what, what kinds of things would he accomplish that hasn't been accomplished before? That would really fundamentally change, change the trajectory for the company, but also make investors happy with the company and perhaps increase the share price.

• 26:12Speaker 08

  Yeah. I mean, success for John Ternus will, you know. Yeah, hinged almost entirely on his ability to navigate this AI transition and make sure that Apple's at the forefront of it.

• 26:24Ed Elson?

  Right.

• 26:24Speaker 08

  I mean, that's, that's, that's going to be integral to whether or not it succeeds. And one of the things I'll be watching is like, you know, when you talk to people about Apple who've worked there, it, it kind of functions like a family. And, you know, you can kind of, even though it's a publicly traded company, I, I've often thought of it kind of the same way I've thought of family owned companies. You have, you know, the, the, the founder who starts a business, the son who takes over the business and takes it to new unprecedented business heights. And then the grandson usually comes along or the granddaughter and kind of screws it all up. And like for John, it's going to be critical not to be.

• 27:06Ed Elson?

  Don't be the grandson.

• 27:07Speaker 08

  The third, the third rung of that ladder, right? Like, but that is a very common trajectory for family run businesses. And his ability to avoid that, that predicament is going to come down to conquering AI and figuring out how to make Apple important in the AI era.

• 27:23Ed Elson?

  Yeah, I totally agree with that. But what's interesting is that the stock didn't react that much. It was down around two or three percent yesterday. And that to me is a big question. It's like, you've got the guy leaving at probably the most important moment for this company. The AI, the new technology has arrived. He's decided to make this very big decision to not invest in that technology. And then he's just leaving and giving it to the grandson. And yet investors seem to be somewhat okay with that. I kind of would have expected they would have been more nervous about that.

• 27:59Speaker 08

  But, but that's because Tim's still there, right?

• 28:02Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 28:02Speaker 08

  Tim Cook's there, you know, it's, it's providing reassurance to investors. And investors have been of a mixed mind about Apple and AI over the past few years. They're both thrilled that Apple isn't investing in data centers at the same rate and degree that its peers are, that, you know, they haven't, they've avoided this, you know, cap, capex arms race. But. They're also uneasy about the fact that Apple may be left behind. So the fact that the stock didn't move, I think is more indicative of the comfort of knowing Tim Cook is going to still be there. They're training wheels right now. And until those training wheels come off, I don't think we can really have a firm sense of what investors think of the company.

• 28:46Speaker 08

  I don't know about you, Patrick, but.

• 28:48Speaker 07

  Yeah, well, they haven't been tested yet. So I mean, in a sense, I'm certainly not an Apple investor in, you know, in any way, but I don't think I learned anything yesterday that would cause me to be more optimistic or less optimistic than the company. I mean, John Turner has been like the only person people could even think about for the last two years as the possible successor. I mean, just based on the fact that if you look at like the senior vice president ranking, like everybody else is nearly Tim Cook's age. So therefore not really a candidate for a 15 year term, if that's sort of the now precedent after two CEOs. And so, you know, being 50 years old, he's just sort of the natural candidate, you know, you're not going to take someone from outside Apple, certainly. And you're not going to pluck some VP. I mean, he was the only person that was sort of actively being groomed. Again, Johnny Shuji might be the exception, and I think that's probably why he's chief hardware officer.

• 29:31Speaker 07

  But there was really no surprise there. People might have been surprised about the timing, but it was reported back in November that this was the likely outcome sometime this year. Trip wrote that as well, right? I mean, I just, I don't think we learned much yesterday.

• 29:42Speaker 08

  And one last thing.

• 29:43Speaker 07

  Go ahead.

• 29:44Speaker 08

  This year makes a ton of sense. I mean, we're in the 50th anniversary of Apple where, you know, they have a product lineup that's going to make both men look like geniuses. Because they have a foldable phone on deck to launch in September. Tim Cook can say one more thing, you know, John Turner's can come out and explain how the phone works like it is really well scripted.

• 30:07Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 08

  And I think that's part of the reason investors looked at this and said, okay, no big deal.

• 30:11Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just adding to that, Art Levinson, the current chairman, he's 75, perfect time to go out. Tim Cook is 65, perfect time to leave the CEO position. And if you're going to do a 15 year term, what do you want? A 50 year old who's a senior vice president. I mean, the stars aligned for this for sure.

• 30:26Ed Elson?

  Yeah, he's he's older, but not not too old. It's a nice, nice, nice place, nice time to go.

• 30:34Ed Elson?

  You mentioned 50th anniversary. Both of you guys have studied the history of this company for a long time.

• 30:41Ed Elson?

  Patrick, when you look at the all of the big moments for Apple in Apple's history, starting with Steve Jobs, the Mac, the iPhone, Tim Cook comes along, the expansion to China, now this. Where does this rank for you in terms of important moments that define the company?

• 31:02Speaker 07

  Well, I mean, this is a company that's been around 50 years, and this is only the eighth CEO. And, you know, only the third of this century. So it is a big transition, but I wouldn't say like the moment like this week is actually all that big. There's no drama here. Nothing has really happened.

• 31:15Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 07

  It's going to be the drama is like, you know, like when Trump became president for the first time and then like people had sort of declare six months in like today. He became president because he'd like bombed the country or something like we're going to have a Ternus moment. And that will be sort of the answer to your question. But, you know, he's not in the role yet. It starts in September. And even there, you know, Tim Cook's going to be doing some handholding. So, you know, I don't know when he's going to be tested, but it certainly hasn't happened yet. So I don't want to sort of draw too much meaning of this particular week.

• 31:42Ed Elson?

  Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 07

  But a new CEO at the world's most iconic company, you know, worth $4 trillion. That's clearly a big moment.

• 31:49Ed Elson?

  Waiting for the Ternus moment. That's a good place to end. Patrick McGee, award winning journalist and author of Apple in China, the capture of the world's greatest company. Trip Mickel, tech reporter for the New York Times, author of After Steve, How Apple Became a Trillion Dollar Company and Lost Its Soul. Trip and Patrick, this was awesome. Thanks so much for joining me.

• 32:06Speaker 07

  Thanks, guys.

• 32:07Ed Elson?

  Thanks for having us.

• 32:13Ed Elson?

  So the Tim Cook era is officially ending. Before we wrap, a quick review of the Apple CEO's career and his legacy. Tim Cook started at Apple in 1998 after spending five minutes with Steve Jobs, who convinced him to join the company. He was eventually promoted to COO and then in 2011, just weeks before Jobs passed, he was named. CEO. He will go down as one of the greatest executives ever. When he took over, Apple was worth $350 billion. Today, that number is almost $4 trillion. In other words, Tim Cook technically created 11 times more value for shareholders than Steve Jobs himself.

• 32:56Ed Elson?

  He also sold more than 3 billion iPhones. That is more than one iPhone for every three people on the planet. In addition, he oversaw the rollout of some of Apple's most iconic products, including the Apple AirPods and also the Apple Watch. But his tenure was not without troubles, most of which came in the latter years. His latest product, the Apple Vision Pro, was a failure. It sold only half a million units before it was quietly pulled. He also fumbled Apple's AI program, which was underwhelming to consumers and also prompted several executives to leave. His greatest mistake, however, might have been his embarrassing display of obsequience toward the president. Last August, Cook presented Donald Trump with a gold plaque,

• 33:42Ed Elson?

  and he quickly became the laughing stock of the internet and really America at large. But Cook's riskiest bet was actually one that he chose not to stick around for. And that was the decision not to invest in data centers. While the rest of big tech geared up to spend nearly a trillion dollars on AI infrastructure, Apple chose to cut its spending, the only big tech company in America to do so. Which leaves his successor, John Ternus, in an interesting position. Because while every investor around the world awaits his AI strategy, his plan to make Apple the multi-trillion dollar winner of the next era of technology,

• 34:24Ed Elson?

  it might be possible that those plans were already made for him. There's no question that Tim Cook was a great, even legendary CEO. But his legacy will depend on the following question. Did he leave the company on a trajectory for even greater success? Or did he abandon it when he started to lose the script? That is the question for Apple investors today, and only time will answer it.

• 34:55Ed Elson?

  Okay, that's it for today. This episode was produced by Claire Miller and Alison Weiss, edited by Joel Patterson and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our video editor is Brad Williams, our research team is Dan Shalane, Isabella Kinsel, Kristin O'Donoghue and Mia Silverio, and our social producer is Jake MacPherson. Thank you for listening to Prof G Markets from Prof G Media. If you liked what you heard, give us a follow. I'm Ed Elson. I will see you tomorrow.