422: D4vd Prelim Hearing, Multiple Marriages in House of Horrors & 17 Year Old Attacks Parents with Knife

This week on Headline Highlights: D4vd's preliminary hearing is underway, with prosecutors presenting evidence they say supports that he groomed and murdered 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. The murder of New Jersey psychotherapist Brooke Hanlon remains unsolved nearly two months later, with no arrests or named suspects. New developments in the Ohio "House of Horrors" case reveal additional child marriages within the Siders family. And an Alabama teenager is accused of fatally stabbing his mother and critically injuring his father during an argument over discipline. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow the show for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases! To watch the video version of this episode, head over to youtube.com/@annieelise. .🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks..🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms.📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife.⭐SponsorsDose: Head to http://dosedaily.co/ANNIE or enter ANNIE to get 35% off your first subscription. Boll and Branch: Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at http://BollAndBranch.com/ae with code ae..👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon.🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected].📚 Episode Sources FOX10 News | LA County District Attorney | LA Magazine | KTLA | New York Post | NewsNation | People | True Crime News | WRNJ Radio••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

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• 1:17Annie Elise?

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Asleep.

• 1:40Annie Elise?

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serial Asleep. With me, your host, Annie E. Lice. Happy Thursday. I hope you're having a good week so far. There is a lot that is going on. We are like in the throes of the David prelim hearing. There are case updates. There are new cases. There is so much to go over today. If you're a brand-new listener, let me just give you a little bit of a rundown, first and foremost, before we get into it. A. If you're watching the video version of this, you can see this is not my normal tech setup. I am doing this via StreamYard, so the audio might not be as crisp as usual. Same with the video, but bear with me.

• 2:22Annie Elise?

  But anyways, on Mondays, we do a full deep dive together, um, where we go into, you know, I go into a full singular case, researching it, giving you all of the details, everything that we can figure out through outreach, FOIA requests, court records, you name it. And then Thursdays come, like today, and it's headline highlights, which means breaking down everything that is happening in true crime this week, whether it's breaking news, updates in cases, trial updates, whatever it may be, just so that you feel like you can, you know, have the pulse on what's going on in the true crime world, because unfortunately, it is a lot to keep up with because there is so much crime happening and there's no shortage of it.

• 3:03Annie Elise?

  So with that, we are going to get into today's episode. Like I said, we have a lot to talk about. But before we do, I have to say, I am joined by Amy the Great. Welcome to Headline Highlights.

• 3:17Speaker 04

  Wow, I didn't realize I was just gonna pop off.

• 3:19Annie Elise?

  I know. That's the one benefit to StreamYard is I can like hide you and then bring you in and scare everybody.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  Well, you didn't see me because I was trying to say something to you right before we started and you weren't answering. So I thought maybe I just wasn't gonna be on the episode at all. And then all of a sudden, here I am.

• 3:35Annie Elise?

  You were muted while you were backstage. Sorry. Sorry, ma'am.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  Thanks for the grand entrance.

• 3:41Annie Elise?

  So I kind of want to say Headline Highlights is obviously HH for short. But I think we could also be CC for short today.

• 3:53Annie Elise?

  Coast to coast.

• 3:54Speaker 04

  Oh, God.

• 3:55Annie Elise?

  Because Amy is in sunny California while I'm in rainy New York. So coast to coast. Wait, hold on.

• 4:03Speaker 04

  I miss you.

• 4:04Annie Elise?

  I'm having a moment.

• 4:06Speaker 04

  What?

• 4:07Annie Elise?

  HH, CC, AA, dare I say, coo.

• 4:17Annie Elise?

  Coast to coast, Annie and Amy, headline highlights, we are ready. I miss you too.

• 4:22Speaker 04

  You're losing it over there.

• 4:24Annie Elise?

  I am, I'm getting a little stir crazy, I'm ready to get back to California, I think. Then, a little much for me, which, speaking of California, okay? We need to jump right in because there is a lot going on with David. And so, there is some progress being made against the case against David Anthony Burke, otherwise known as David, D4VD, you name it. And I feel like everybody knows about this case by now, but if you are new here for some reason, or you are not familiar with it, I did a deep dive back a while ago into some of the early information that we knew, things about how David and Celeste were connected, how everything really came to a head last September of 2025.

• 5:08Annie Elise?

  And since then, there have been a ton of updates in this case, which I've been keeping you guys informed on via headline highlights. Maybe I need to do a full like mashup, I don't know, let me know if that would be helpful, because there is a lot of information that continuously is coming out. Giving you just a very top line refresher in all of this, David Burke is a man who has been charged with the death of 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. Her decomposed and dismembered remains were discovered inside the front trunk of his Tesla back in September of last year. However, that's after her remains had been there for months, after he dumped the car in July.

• 5:50Annie Elise?

  Prosecutors also allege that David had been grooming Celeste for years, starting when she was just 11 years old. And that then, after she threatened to expose their relationship, when she discovered that he was dating other women, seeing other people, he wanted to silence her, he planned and carried out her murder, this is what they are alleging, and that he lured her to his house in the Hollywood Hills area and murdered her.

• 6:16Annie Elise?

  Kind of sat on her body for a little while, ordered supplies to dismember her, and then ultimately disposed of her. And there's kind of three chunks to this case. There's the beginning, the middle, and the end. And these three chunks are actually rolled up into what he's being charged with. You have the beginning piece of it, which is the grooming, the underage relationship, CSAM material, which I'm going to touch on here in a minute. You have the middle of it, their actual relationship with that CSAM material, then him allegedly murdering Celeste. And then you have the ending, which is him trying to cover it up, conceal evidence, and, you know,

• 6:58Annie Elise?

  act as though he had nothing to do with this. So he's currently facing charges for first degree murder with special circumstances, which the special circumstances include lying in wait, continuous child physical and sexual assault under the, for a child under the age of 14, and unlawful mutilation of human remains. So he was charged back in April and has been held ever since then, which his defense team is adamant saying he is innocent. They can't wait to prove his innocence, although even the evidence that we've been able to witness based on the prelim brief, I mean, there is a lot of compelling evidence in this case. So fast forward to this week,

• 7:39Annie Elise?

  and the prelim hearing is happening, which the purpose of this is to have a hearing in front of the judge where the judge will decide if there is enough evidence to take this case to trial. I would be completely shocked if this case didn't go to trial. I am so convinced that they have enough evidence and that this is moving forward. But according to the DA, the hearing started on Tuesday, the 21st, and it's actually expected to take anywhere from three to seven days. So it is underway right now. Could be finishing soon, could take a few more days. It depends on, you know, as of the time of this recording, it is still going on. At the time that this episode is released, maybe it will be wrapped, but it is happening right now.

• 8:21Annie Elise?

  Now, the DA also said, quote, "The evidence that's going to be presented is going to be..." Be very thorough. It will track Celeste's movements on that particular night back in April of 2025, all the way through September of 2025, when her body was found dismembered in multiple bags in the front trunk of the Tesla. Now, you know me, I'm always doing digging on the back end. And a lot of news right now that I've seen a lot of creators posting as breaking news or, you know, a brand new revelation is actually old news and it was outlined in the prelim brief, but I don't think that a lot of people like went through the prosecutor's brief, went through all of the paperwork. But there is a lot of stuff that is outlined in there, which to me

• 9:03Annie Elise?

  does make it seem like there's plenty of compelling evidence. But also, I know that more things, or I should say, I'm confident that more things are going to be exposed during this prelim that will paint this even darker picture, unfortunately. So back in April, some of the information that was presented and that they will be presenting during this hearing, in addition to probably more, is the descriptions of the CSAM material that was found, found from when Celeste was 13 or 14 years old. Numerous text messages between David and Celeste that was evidence of their sexual relationship, potential pregnancies, terminations, the use of the Plan B pill, which is also known, you know, street name, morning after pill.

• 9:47Annie Elise?

  Messages going back and forth where Celeste herself says, "All we do is have sex. I want more for myself", which is actually so heartbreaking when you think about it. This young girl being groomed by this adult man, wanting this relationship to be something more, just saying vocally like, "I feel like all we do is have sex. Like, this isn't what I want for myself." They're also going to show David's activity and on his cell phone and his communications from his iPhone, his Tesla, all sorts of devices to show his the pattern, the track record, his movements, everything. DNA evidence that were collected from David's garage, which is where they allege he dismembered her. And guys, just wait for it.

• 10:28Annie Elise?

  I have so much more information that is coming your way in the next, hopefully, few months about this, but. It's disgusting. They're also going to show the proof of the Amazon purchases that he made that delivered to his house, but he made under the fake name where he bought the chainsaws, plural, the kiddie pool, cadaver bags, all sorts of items to clean, cover up, and conceal this crime. Uber records showing that he called her an Uber the night of the murder on April 23rd, 2025, and that she did arrive via Uber to his house in the Hollywood Hills area that night. And then also proof that he had a lucrative

• 11:09Annie Elise?

  career, that he was about to have his album released, he was going on tour. Anything that got in the way of that was going to jeopardize his fame, his money, his celebrity, all of it. And he couldn't have that. He wanted to silence her. The briefing also gives the background of how Celeste was found in that Tesla, when the relationship between the two of them first began, when Celeste was reported as a missing and runaway child, and kind of just how the whole investigation has played out after her body was found. Now, again, this whole brief was submitted back in April, so I am very confident that there is going to be more evidence presented in this hearing, things that we do not know of yet, because in the brief, all they had to show was enough of their game plan, enough

• 11:53Annie Elise?

  evidence to be like, we have enough, we, they had the arrest warrant as well, like, here's enough to hold him, here's why we don't think you should grant bail, here's a little bit sneak preview of what we've got against him. Now, that might be enough in this prelim to make the judge sign off on the trial, but also, like I said, I think there very well could be more that is shown. So I will definitely follow up once it wraps, if it has not wrapped by now, at the time of this episode being published, but I think we're going to learn a lot more here. So I am happy that it's finally underway. It seems to be moving through the court system at a relatively, you know, fast pace. And I'm hoping that we are just a hop, skip, and away from justice finally being served,

• 12:37Annie Elise?

  and this asshat creep being locked up.

• 12:40Speaker 04

  Let me ask you, I know you feel like there's no doubt that there's going to be enough compelling evidence to take it to trial, but what do you think the chances are of him taking a plea deal?

• 12:51Annie Elise?

  I don't know that they would necessarily offer him a plea deal, only because I do think the evidence is that strong. However, we did see with Brian Koberger, that whole situation happened, which I think part of that was a misstep by the prosecutor's office. Also, I think it was to help the families avoid going to trial and having to relive the horrifying details. So I would be shocked if there were a plea deal.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  Also, wouldn't it complicate things if they do, in fact, through this extra evidence, find out that maybe he had help or there was someone else involved? Because then it would have to be multiple plea deals, right?

• 13:27Annie Elise?

  Well, yeah, if they think that he had help, which they have not announced that, they may have at this point, at this episode, being released, they have not announced it yet. However, I have talked with so many different experts in the space, and the fact that he ordered two chainsaws is indicative that he probably had help, or he didn't know what size and type of chainsaw was going to work, so he ordered two different ones. We don't know the exact skew at this point, as if they were identical or not. But there seems to be a lot of belief that he did have help, not necessarily with the crime itself, but with the cover up. And because so many of his friends vocalized that the house smells, his car smells, obviously,

• 14:08Annie Elise?

  like, there seems to be knowledge. We also know that the secret grand jury happened back in the, what was it, like, late fall, early winter, and they brought a lot of his friends in to testify. So there is more knowledge there, which, again, I don't know that they would jump to a plea deal right away, because there's so many of the special circumstances charged. There are other people in the web of his life that I think played some role, I'll just say that, in all of this. So I don't know. I mean, I'm surprised every day with the way some of these defendants end up not getting off, but getting, not a slap on the

• 14:49Annie Elise?

  wrist, but like, the way things go. So, nothing would surprise me at this point. However, I believe there will be a trial.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, hopefully. I mean, I feel like she, Celeste, deserves that.

• 15:01Annie Elise?

  Well, Anne, I think that there's a lot of questions still that will come to light with her parents. Because if you have been following this case, you know that there have been a lot of allegations for months, if not years, that her parents were not complicit in this. Obviously, they wouldn't want their daughter killed. But that they were okay with the relationship, that they blessed it, that they were possibly receiving money from David, and that's why they allowed it to keep happening. And I don't know that any of that is true. Truly, I don't. They've refused to speak out. They are not participating in any documentaries. But obviously, if they're called to testify as a witness, they will have to disclose that. And as they're going through forensic accounting and all that, any sort of money exchange and transactions, that will be illustrated.

• 15:46Annie Elise?

  So I think there's just a lot more information that will come to light in the trial. However, again, that could be a reason from Celeste's family side to agree to a plea deal if the prosecutors present that as an option. I don't know, because they don't want it out there. Who knows? Who knows? So we'll see. Keeping a close eye on it.

• 16:07Speaker 04

  Okay. Well, this next case is one that's been all over all of our feeds. Um, it's one that's all over social media, and it's because there's a lot of unanswered questions, but then also a lot of speculation going on right now. So this all took place on the afternoon of June 6th around 4:30, when a 911 call came in from a home in Chester Township, New Jersey, which is about 40 minutes outside of New York City. And the caller was James Connor Hanlon, who had told dispatchers that he had found his wife Brooke Hanlon, unconscious, not breathing, and covered in blood inside their home. Now, their house sits on a very narrow wooded road where all the homes are very far apart, and Brooke was found upstairs.

• 16:52Speaker 04

  And during the call, Connor had told dispatchers that Brooke had a laceration to her chest, which then he was instructed to give CPR, and for several minutes, he stayed on the phone with that 911 dispatcher while they walked him through chest compressions until the first responders arrived. Now, take a listen to that call here.

• 17:11Speaker 05

  911 operator for you for emergency.

• 17:14Speaker 06

  339, 339, Pottersville Road, Chester, New Jersey.

• 17:22Speaker 05

  Okay, this, it'll embarrass me one moment.

• 17:25Speaker 06

  Oh my god. I need, I need an ambulance.

• 17:28Speaker 05

  Okay, it's three thirty nine Potter's Road Road in Chester Township, is that correct?

• 17:32Speaker 06

  Chester Township, Chester Township.

• 17:34Speaker 05

  Okay, is there a floor apartment of room numbers, is this a private home?

• 17:37Speaker 06

  A private home.

• 17:37Speaker 05

  Okay, you call.

• 17:39Speaker 06

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 17:40Speaker 05

  Okay, tell me exactly what happened, I know you said your wife is.

• 17:45Speaker 06

  I just found, why, why, why, I don't know what's going on. CPR, I need CPR, there's instructions.

• 17:50Speaker 05

  Okay, she's not breathing or conscious?

• 17:53Speaker 06

  Oh my god, there's, there's a last three minutes.

• 17:58Speaker 05

  Okay, sir, bear with me one moment.

• 18:01Speaker 06

  No.

• 18:01Speaker 05

  We're getting up there, just stay in the line, you need some more information, okay?

• 18:05Speaker 06

  No.

• 18:08Speaker 06

  Please, I don't know what to do, I need you here, I need you here immediately.

• 18:12Speaker 05

  Sir, so she is, she is bleeding and she's not, she's not conscious, is that correct?

• 18:17Speaker 06

  No.

• 18:18Speaker 05

  Okay, okay.

• 18:20Speaker 06

  Oh, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.

• 18:24Speaker 05

  All right, sir.

• 18:27Speaker 05

  All right, the paramedics have been sent, just stay in the line.

• 18:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:33Speaker 06

  What?

• 18:33Speaker 05

  If, if there's a defibrillator available, send someone to get it now and tell me when you have it, sir.

• 18:37Speaker 06

  No, I don't have one, I don't have.

• 18:39Speaker 05

  Not available, okay.

• 18:41Speaker 06

  I don't know what to do, I don't know what, what the fuck, what the fuck?

• 18:45Speaker 04

  But sadly, shortly after the first responders got there, Brooke was pronounced dead at the home. Now Brooke was just thirty five years old and had just had her first child with Connor last July. The couple had actually met in college at Northeastern University in Boston where Brooke had later completed her master's degree in clinical psychology. They had spent about ten years living in Massachusetts before ultimately moving back to New Jersey and that's where they started their family last summer. After about a week after her death, the Morris County Medical Examiner finalized Brooke's autopsy and determined that her cause of death was multiple sharp force injuries. And her manner of death was ultimately ruled a homicide.

• 19:28Speaker 04

  But what was really shocking was about three weeks after Brooke's death, the Morris County Sheriff's Crime Stoppers. Offered this reward of a thousand dollars for any information that was leading up to their arrest, which at the time, that felt a little odd because there wasn't any information. However, ruled a homicide, but why this arguably small reward that's being offered? And then there was no, nothing that came about it and there were no tips, nothing, no leads, nothing that the police was moving forward with as a result of that reward being offered. And for weeks, people were expecting investigators to identify some sort of person of interest, release surveillance footage, announce an arrest, but really, nothing happened.

• 20:10Speaker 04

  And there was no public updates. There wasn't even a warning to the public that there may be still a suspect at large and that there, that people should be concerned. And at the same time, people were noticing that her husband Connor had kind of disappeared from public view, which is what actually fueled all of the speculation online.

• 20:29Annie Elise?

  Not a great look. Not a great look, Connor.

• 20:32Speaker 04

  I know. And I, I kind of thought about that because I'm thinking everybody grieves differently. And I could understand that when you're going through something like that, you don't want to be in the public eye. So I can't see where that like automatically means you're involved. But the police have remained super tight lipped on the case, which is I think why people were so curious, like they're tight lipped, he's disappearing, what's going on? And one of the couple's neighbors who had actually lived next door to the couple for about a year, later spoke to the reporters and said that just a few days before Brooke was killed, around June 2nd, Connor had actually texted him because a bear had gotten into their trash, which we're like, wait, what? We can't relate to that problem. But the neighbor had said, we were actually just texting the other day.

• 21:17Speaker 04

  He reached out because a bear had gotten into my tra, his trash, and that was the last he had heard from him. And after Brooke's death, that same neighbor had texted Connor again, after seeing all the police activity, just to kind of check in and say, hey, what's going on? But Connor never responded, which is kind of odd because it's like they obviously have this rapport. He's texting him just to kind of share, hey, bear, a bear got into my trash. But then you see police activity, you reach out and nothing. And then just this week, something happened that people think is very strange. It was reported that Connor had hired an attorney and was communicating with the Morris County Prosecutor's Office. And it was also reported that several members of Connor's family had also been speaking to the prosecutors too.

• 22:02Annie Elise?

  Okay.

• 22:03Speaker 04

  And around the same time, people also learned that Brooke and Connor's baby was being cared for by some of their other family members, which I kind of have a thought about that. The authorities haven't explained why he's disappeared, why their baby is being cared for by another family member. And there's been no updates, but immediately everyone's questioning what's going on. And this obviously seems very odd. So my thought, and actually I want to get your opinion because at this point, nobody's been arrested. Nobody has been announced as a person of interest and no one has actually been directly accused of Brooke's murder.

• 22:42Speaker 04

  But that being said, a lot of people are speculating that usually stabbing deaths are indicative of a crime of passion and usually done by somebody close to the victim. So I think that is what's causing a lot of this angst amongst her close friends and family and the public. But my thought, and I'm curious to know yours, is potentially that maybe, I don't know. I feel like maybe it is somebody else, but that the husband knows who it could be. Because why would they give their baby to someone else to care for if they were in danger? And then maybe the family is also kind of looped into what this dangerous situation might be. So they're all kind of cooperating and saying like, this is what we know.

• 23:25Speaker 04

  We don't feel comfortable with our baby here because they might be at risk too. And maybe he's not directly involved, but I don't know. That was just kind of a thought that popped in my mind.

• 23:35Annie Elise?

  I could see that, but also, and normally I'm not playing devil's advocate for the husband. Normally I'm like, oh, the husband did it. But I will say this, God forbid, if say Jeremiah was murdered one day and I was so grief stricken by it. And like, I pulled myself out of the public eye. I didn't do interviews. I was trying to cope. I could see a world in which I said, hey, Amy, you've got to take Theo and Emmy. I like, I can't, I can't show up for them the way that I want to right now. And like, I'm a disaster. I could, so I, the baby being cared for by somebody else doesn't immediately. Throw up a red flag for me, but what I do think is interesting, and this could go either way fifty fifty as I'm thinking through it as to could it be the husband, is it, you

• 24:17Annie Elise?

  know, a random intruder, what happened, is that on the nine one one call, he said that she had a laceration to her chest, a single laceration, but then the autopsy ruled she had multiple sharp force injuries, so she was stabbed multiple times. Does that mean he was trying to lie and say she only had one laceration, or does that mean he was stabbed and he only saw one and he didn't know that she had multiple? I don't know. The reward thing I think is too interesting.

• 24:44Speaker 04

  Well, they said that the theory was also part of the speculation was that such a small reward, or even a reward in general, was offered to kind of detour the person who the perpetrator to say like, we don't know who it is, so we're willing to offer a reward for somebody to come forward when really they have some information.

• 25:05Annie Elise?

  Like you're zeroing in.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  But at this point, there's been no information, no arrests made, no public warning of a threat to the community. So I think everyone is just, like I said at the beginning, questioning what's going on. And naturally, then there's a lot of speculation as to what's going on. But to your point, the husband is, you know, always a suspect in these things. And then you also, the stabbing doesn't help because if it is a crime of passion, is that person someone she knew? Was it him? Was it somebody they both knew?

• 25:37Annie Elise?

  Has there been any mention of like, was anything missing from the home? Did it look burglarized? Did it look like any doors had been?

• 25:44Speaker 04

  No, nothing. As far as the neighbor goes, I mean, there were no reports of any type of fighting or any type of issues in the marriage, other than, you know, they had this one year old baby and had just started their family, moved back to New Jersey.

• 25:59Annie Elise?

  Is the bear?

• 26:02Annie Elise?

  How we all say, you know, would you rather be, what is it, trapped in the woods with a man or a bear? Or whatever, is the bear a person? Or was it really a bear going through the trash? Or was it someone casing a house?

• 26:13Speaker 04

  I don't know, I feel, now you're.

• 26:17Annie Elise?

  Not an actual bear, like the bear did. Oh, the bear has claws, Amy, is it lassers? No. Like, is that, which, I don't know, yeah. So what are people saying online?

• 26:27Speaker 04

  They're just, they, obviously, they're thinking the husband had something to do with it. They think it's weird that he disappeared out of the public eye and that he's now cooperating with authorities and that his family's cooperating. But again, I think in any scenario, to your point, if something, God forbid, had happened to Jeremiah, obviously, your whole family is gonna be cooperating and involved. And I just think sometimes those things, you know, people wanna create the narrative they want. But statistically, crimes of passion involve, you know, are similar. So I could see where people are definitely skeptical. Well, there is one theory out there from some Reddit users and people online. So Brooke, as we discussed, is a psychotherapist.

• 27:12Speaker 04

  And it's been known that sometimes previous patients who might feel a certain way about their treatment, might attack their professionals. So perhaps it could have been some sort of revenge attack on her work or something that could be connected to her job. But there's really no facts that are supporting that as of now. It's just a theory that's out there. So that could potentially be, kind of speaks to what I said earlier, that maybe the husband was privy to some sort of a situation and that's why the baby is under the care of somebody else. I don't know.

• 27:49Annie Elise?

  From possibly like a high conflict patient that she had?

• 27:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, potentially. I mean, it sounds like that's really the only other lead at this point, or. You know, solid theory that could potentially make sense at this point.

• 28:04Annie Elise?

  That's so sad. Well, hopefully your family gets answers soon.

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Yes. So hopefully we'll have some answers and of course, keep everyone updated on that.

• 28:12Annie Elise?

  Yeah. All right. I feel like we need to just have an honest conversation here in the circle of trust. Can we talk about how literally everything seems to be getting more expensive? Groceries, gas, rent, you name it. And apparently your wireless bill wants to join in on that party too. But here's the thing, it doesn't have to. Mint Mobile is making it so much easier to stop overpaying for wireless with plans starting at just 15 bucks a month. And you're not sacrificing quality either. All plans include high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and access to the nation's largest 5G network. You can also use your current phone and your current phone number. You just sign up online and you are good to go. Now, I changed carriers probably a year and a half ago at this point to Mint Mobile.

• 28:57Annie Elise?

  And when I tell you, not only was it the best decision of my life, I now have like service in places my husband doesn't even have service. But it was so easy. It took me 15 minutes, kept my phone, kept my phone number. It was the best. So for a new wireless plan, starting at 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/ae. That's mintmobile.com/ae. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Okay, so there have been a lot of new developments in the Ohio House of Horrors case. And I did a deep dive on this. When was it? Last Monday? So if you guys haven't listened to that deep dive, definitely circle back and listen.

• 29:40Annie Elise?

  But even mid last week, I put on my Instagram stories, like a question box thing. Cause I wanted to get your guys' opinions of like, what case are you following right now? What do you want more information on? So many of you said not only Ohio House of Horrors, but also Nolan Wells, which Nolan Wells also, a deep dive came out last week. So go listen to that for sure. It's in this feed. But there have been a lot of updates, a lot of updates involving the Sider family. And you know, it's a lot to talk about. There's not a ton, a ton of ton of info out there, but we are getting drips and drabs. And these new updates are. Pretty unsettling if I'm being honest with you.

• 30:22Annie Elise?

  We already know that Elizabeth Siders was just 15 years old when she married Gary Jr. They got married back in 2008 and then two months later she had her first baby. What was also very disturbing and shocking about that is that her parents signed off for her to get married at such a young age. While this man was like arguably grooming her, right? Now, one of the biggest updates with all of that came out recently. And it's that public records have been released and these records show multiple teen marriages in the Siders family. Not just Elizabeth. This is like generational. This is like a common thing for this family. So the records that have come out show that in 2002, a 14 year old girl, also pregnant, by the way,

• 31:05Annie Elise?

  married 48 year old Richard E. Siders. I know. Now, Richard is a cousin of Gary Siders Jr. So a 14 year old girl who's pregnant marrying a 48 year old man. Can we just talk about that for a moment? It is so foul and disgusting. Then, just a year later, another member of the extended family was also married at 15 years old. And here's my thoughts. This is obviously some sick and twisted shit going on in the Sider family, right? You're like, what's that? Sider House rules, but different Sider House, obviously. But it's like they're normalizing it. They're grooming. They are just, I don't know how many babies are being born in all of these other, you know, offshoot marriages.

• 31:49Annie Elise?

  But we know how many babies were born between Elizabeth and Gary. I should say allegedly born because I know that there is still DNA testing happening to see if like, some of the children had babies together and like what really happened there. But these discoveries have brought up a lot of questions and it's kind of put Ohio's child marriage laws in the spotlight. Rightfully so. And here's the part that really surprised me. Up until 2019, which in my brain, I feel like anything post 2020 was like a year ago, which I realize this is seven years ago now. But like in 2019, up until then, Ohio didn't have a minimum age for marriage, which seems

• 32:29Annie Elise?

  So crazy. The law technically said that the boys had to be eighteen and the girls had to be sixteen, but there was a loophole within that. If the parents signed off and a judge approved it, even younger kids could get legally married, especially if they were pregnant. Which I feel like that is the moment that they should not get married because like, marriage is not the answer to solving teen pregnancy, at least not in my mind. You know, it's like, you don't need to get married just to put a Band-Aid on whatever situation you find yourself in or to like, if the parents think that that's what's gonna make it right and like, if you're religious and you know, all the things that come with it. But, before the state changed the law in two thousand nineteen, get this, you're gonna lose your mind right now. More than twenty-five hundred minors were married in Ohio.

• 33:14Annie Elise?

  And nearly all of them, about ninety-six percent of them, were married to legal adults. It is so disgusting and twisted. State records-

• 33:24Speaker 04

  I wonder how many of those people are preg- were pregnant?

• 33:27Annie Elise?

  Well, I agree, one hundred percent. But get this, you're gonna get even more pissed off, Amy Bo- Amy Bobamie, I don't know what I'm gonna call you, Amy Colette. State records also show that between two thousand and twenty twenty-four, fifteen children under the age of fifteen were married in Ohio. Two of those girls were ten years.

• 33:49Speaker 04

  I'm sorry, like, so who is marrying these people?

• 33:52Annie Elise?

  No.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  The official marrying them and how do you even?

• 33:55Annie Elise?

  I have no idea.

• 33:56Speaker 04

  How do you as a person do that?

• 33:59Annie Elise?

  Yeah. As a forty-eight-year-old man who is about to marry a ten-year-old or a twelve-year-old or a fourteen-year-old, like, first of all, who's signing off on that? What parents-

• 34:08Speaker 04

  That's what I'm saying.

• 34:08Annie Elise?

  My ten-year-old is totally ready for marriage, which, look, I actually, I think you already left New York before I started my re-watch of Big Love, but I'm like in the throes of re-watching Big Love right now, which is all about polygamy. And I just get like so hyper-wrapped up in these like cults and the polygamists and all of that. And so, I've already seen this, but I'm re-watching it. And so it's like, in my mind, I'm like- Okay, it's obviously not F L D S because that would be like more in Utah. Maybe, you know, maybe it is. It's not that, it's like where there's like these religious beliefs, not that that excuses anything, but it's these creeps, creeps.

• 34:43Speaker 04

  Well, that was what, so as you're saying, there's multiple minors and they're all like within the family and the cousin and I immediately I'm thinking cult and and because it's now expanding and there's more coming out, I'm thinking, was there some sort of like doctrine within this family, whether it's like a bigger religious thing or not, but was it this belief system within a household because? And then my second question is like, when this happens in other states, is that because there's loopholes to the laws? And then is that why it's more accepted in this family? To your point, it becomes like the norm because you grew up in it, your cousin's getting married, your sister is getting married, everyone's getting pregnant young.

• 35:23Speaker 04

  Is it this like culture that they've built within their home and family? And more than just this like disgusting incestual situation that we see in these house of horrors where it's more abuse driven versus like this belief system?

• 35:41Annie Elise?

  I don't know what it is, Amy, but I don't like it. Okay? And here's what I think. I think every parent who signed off on that paperwork to have their minor child married off should be held accountable.

• 35:54Speaker 04

  That are a part of this family who believes like in Scientology where you just believe this is the right thing to do.

• 36:01Annie Elise?

  Well, you should know better. If you're an adult, you should know better that your 10 year old should not be married to an adult. Like, I don't care what you believe in. I don't care if you are seeing whoever you believe in face to face and you truly think they're telling you that this is right. You should know better as a parent and as an adult that your 10 year old child has no business getting married.

• 36:21Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 36:22Annie Elise?

  So it's like, I think these creeps need to be held accountable first and foremost. But also going back to the cider family specifically, this wasn't the first time when all of this now has been exposed that somebody tried to step in and help these kids. Court records show that back in 2021, school officials Officials had filed complaints after six of the oldest Siders children allegedly missed the entire school year without a legitimate excuse. So there were like these truancy reports that I saw. One, there one or more child had missed, I think it was like seventy two hours of school or maybe two days, sorry, don't quote me on that. But anyway, my point being truancy officers had to get, uh, officers had to get involved.

• 37:04Annie Elise?

  Court officials ended up getting involved, but nothing ever came of those cases. When officials tried to serve paperwork at the address that was listed for the family, they just found a completely vacant home, which is like obviously they, we know that they moved into this house of horrors situation, rumored to be four years ago possibly, but which would align with kind of this timeline here, but they just are flying under the radar and there seems to be like no due diligence or follow up to figure out what happened, which I get it, the system is broken and it's easy to look at it from the outside and be like, somebody needs to fix this. But if you're trying to follow up on why multiple children missed an entire school year with no legitimate excuse, and then you go to the house and they aren't there,

• 37:49Annie Elise?

  surely there should be some sort of checks and balance in place to find out where their address is, where they went, talk to people because there would be like a huge alarm going off saying like, danger, danger, danger, like something is going on here. And so ultimately though, the family couldn't be located and by early twenty twenty two, the cases were just dismissed, which it blows my mind because there could have been a big intervention prior to what recently happened in Ohio and the revelations that came from it. And I think that then that could have not only saved a lot of the children, but also potentially could have stopped future children from being born over the last few years.

• 38:34Annie Elise?

  It would have provided the opportunity to intervene and help these children with speech writing because so many of them don't even know how to write their own name. They don't even know their own names. They don't have any written skills, language skills. So it's like, it's just such a Miss and such a huge drop of the ball. And another thing that has come out is more information on the birth records themselves. Last week, we learned that all of Gary Junior and Elizabeth's children were reportedly born in hospitals. So there's confirmation there. However, we still don't know why investigators are looking at all of the children's DNA to make sure that all of the children do in fact biologically belong to Gary and Elizabeth.

• 39:16Annie Elise?

  I mean, maybe it's to make sure that they are, they belong to them and that there wasn't some incest happening. But also, if they were all born in hospitals. Again, it's easy to complain about a broken system and not do anything about it. But what do you think that with someone who is delivering a child every single year? That at some point in the hospital? You're concerned about their wellbeing and saying like, what's going on like? Are you okay? Or like social services to come in, not to take the children away, but to at least like? Check on the mother and like make sure that things are are okay. And look. I can't imagine, given the state that they were living in. And the state of that house and the hygiene, the lack thereof, I should say.

• 39:58Annie Elise?

  That she was rolling up into the hospital with a fresh blowout and looking clean and delivering these babies. Clearly, they would have been able to witness the condition of this woman. And of Gary Junior, if he ever showed up to the hospital himself too. So like.

• 40:14Speaker 04

  Okay, what can you do? I mean, you can voice your concern, but there is no evidence or reason for investigating. I mean, and if if the age gap, there's a loophole and allowed, then even that itself could be a red flag, but.

• 40:27Annie Elise?

  Well, she's an adult now, so there wouldn't be anything with the age gap, but like, just. The fact that it seems like she was not only groomed at a young age, which I get it, maybe the hospital couldn't identify that. But the fact that it seems like she was just there for the purpose of breeding. Over and over and over again, and then living in deplorable conditions and. You know, a mess and distraught, like clearly you would have witnessed, you'd be able to see that and like. Not to get too graphic or physical, but like when you're delivering a baby. And you're up in the anatomy, you're going to realize that there's something going on, you know? And so. I don't know what's going on with them still checking the DNA even though they have the birth records and what's happening there. More to come, but there's also another legal update.

• 41:12Annie Elise?

  A judge has now granted a gag order for Gary Siders Jr. And a gag order was also requested for his mom Christina's case. So this order is meant to protect his right to a fair trial as the case moves forward because, I mean, like we've seen in so many cases before, the concern is that with all this major media attention on the case, it's going to be a lot more difficult to find an impartial jury, which, amen, I understand that. But overall, this case, I mean, it just still has a lot of moving parts, a lot of questions. It does look like there is going to be a very long road ahead. I'm going to keep watching for updates. I'm just trying to figure out like, what is going on with this in this family? What the hell is going on in Ohio? And like, I don't even know. I don't even know. I'm

• 41:56Annie Elise?

  like dumbfounded that this, that things like this can go under the radar for so long and get so bad before they're exposed.

• 42:04Speaker 04

  I think that's the interesting part is, you know, what is the answer to help with change? Because if the laws have these loopholes in terms of these age gaps, when there's that power dynamic like that, then in terms of getting somebody pregnant and all of that, I mean, it feels like that's quote unquote allowed, obviously. And so, um, it's changing the laws, it's being more aware, it's following up on those cases. If you're, to your point, the red flags of the kids not being in school and those things, because that's where you can stop it ahead of time, I think, or at least have an opportunity to.

• 42:45Annie Elise?

  It's so sad. It makes me sick.

• 42:47Speaker 04

  It's so sad. Well, speaking of sad situations, this one is very, very devastating. It happened just a couple of weeks ago on the night of July 5th in Baldwin County, Alabama, when deputies were called to a home around 9:00 PM for a reported assault. And when they got there, they found 37-year-old Samantha Baker and her husband, 46-year-old Lance Baker, both suffering from multiple stab wounds. And deputies immediately started lifesaving measures until the paramedics arrived, but Samantha unfortunately died there at the scene. Lance did survive, but was airlifted to a hospital with critical injuries and

• 43:30Speaker 04

  This case just gets even wilder. Investigators quickly realized that it wasn't just a random attack or a break and gone wrong, and that the person who was responsible was actually still inside the home at the time.

• 43:44Annie Elise?

  I know where this is going.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  Yep. So according to the deputies, after the attack, the suspect went back inside the home, inside the door, and then called 911. And the police say that the person was the baker's own 17-year-old son, Brandon, and he was taken into custody at the scene. According to investigators, Brandon allegedly attacked both of his parents in the middle of an argument between all three of them that was regarding them disciplining him. Police say he had grabbed a knife, started stabbing them repeatedly, and while the violence had started inside the home, it didn't stay there. Because investigators say that Samantha and Lance both ran outside and they were desperately trying to get away

• 44:29Speaker 04

  and ended up going across the street and into multiple neighboring yards.

• 44:34Annie Elise?

  Oh my god.

• 44:36Speaker 04

  It gets much worse. Lance was eventually found in a neighbor's yard after reportedly running from house to house trying to find someone that could help him. One neighbor later even looked back at her home's security footage and listened to it, saying it was the hardest thing that she had ever experienced. She said she could hear Lance repeatedly yelling, "Please help me. I don't want to die."

• 45:00Annie Elise?

  Oh my god.

• 45:01Speaker 04

  You can actually hear the neighbor talking about that surveillance video here.

• 45:04Speaker 07

  That was probably the hardest part, was pulling up my camera and, you know, listening to it and listening to the father yelling for help, "Please help me. I don't want to die." And it just carried on down. And, I mean, it looks like he was trying to find an open door. And I didn't know where he was or where anybody was.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  She also said she could hear Samantha scream once as she came out of the house. And then she heard Lance pleading with his son, asking, "Why are you doing this?" before saying, "I don't want to die." Please stop. No. And yelling, somebody help me. Please help me. Loud enough for the neighbors to hear. The neighbor also said that the footage also caught audio of Brandon telling his father that he was going to kill him. Which is wild. So imagine, I mean, you can't imagine. I can't imagine from the parents' perspective, like realizing that their son, what they're, he's trying to do, you're trying to get away. You're desperately pleading with him as you're running to your neighbor's yards, trying to get help.

• 46:08Annie Elise?

  And him being so angry that he's saying, I'm going to kill you. Like, that is. Open, seventeen years old.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  I know.

• 46:16Annie Elise?

  Oh, my God, I have the chills.

• 46:18Speaker 04

  The bakers had met while they were serving in the US Army Reserve. And Samantha was currently working as a realtor while Lance served as a battalion commander and he was still in the army. And they also have a sixteen year old son who thankfully was not home at the time of that attack. But also, could you imagine coming home and realizing your older.

• 46:39Annie Elise?

  Parents are gone.

• 46:40Speaker 04

  All this.

• 46:41Annie Elise?

  Oh, my God.

• 46:43Speaker 04

  I know. And just a few days later, another piece of the story came out that, and that's kind of what got a lot of people talking. Samantha had often posted on Facebook about the challenges of raising teenage boys. She was very, very open about it. And back in May, she shared a meme that read, only parents with gentle children can gentle parent. The rest of us have to square up and fight for our lives with the tiny bullies we made. Adding in the caption, and I do square up. I don't have gentle kids. They're feral.

• 47:16Annie Elise?

  Okay, I don't like that.

• 47:18Speaker 04

  I know.

• 47:19Annie Elise?

  Like, I understand. I get it to a degree. Like, you can't necessarily gentle parent. A rageful child in that situation.

• 47:30Annie Elise?

  And who knows if they sought therapy or what they did. But also to say, you don't gentle parent. You square up. That you, your kids are feral. And I'm not trying to victim shame here, implying anything, but like, does that mean that? I don't want to say that they were abusive, but that like they locked him in his room ever or like, you know, spanking is something I not that they would do to a seventeen year old, but like that is like a big, you know, piece of people thing people don't agree on. To cause to openly say, I do square up. He's a bully and I don't gentle parent. I don't know that I love that.

• 48:07Speaker 04

  Well, wait, you'll hear where this is going and and then and yeah, I think there's a difference between like when you're joking about Emmy and you're like my, you know, feral child. A real struggle when you're dealing with disciplinary issues. In another post, she joked, raising a teenage boy, zero out of ten, do not recommend in all caps. So clearly she was struggling. She was having challenges with her boys or at least one of them. And after the attack, that same neighbor that had that surveillance camera at her home had captured audio from an argument previously between Samantha and Brandon around two thirty that same afternoon that was about social media posts.

• 48:50Speaker 04

  According to the neighbor, it sounded like Brandon was asking about one of Samantha's Facebook posts and Samantha kept telling him it was just a story and that it wasn't about him. Uh, okay.

• 49:01Annie Elise?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, when you said the zero out of ten recommend, my thought was going to be, obviously, these are public posts and your son's gonna see them. How is he gonna feel about that and react to that? And like, look, not that I'm saying I ever have thoughts of killing our parents, obviously not, but like I was a defiant teenager and I would and it comes usually, okay. It usually comes from like a place of insecurity or trying to fit in or not knowing where you fit in the world. So then to be met with your parents openly saying how you're a bully, how you're feral, how they wish they never had you or they don't want to raise you. It's like that's only going to fuel that anger and make you feel even more displaced, which doesn't justify murder. Don't get me wrong, but like

• 49:46Annie Elise?

  this was a bad, terrible idea.

• 49:49Speaker 04

  Yes, to your point, exactly. It's like your parents, you think of them as like that unconditional love, that safe space. So it's like, no matter how bad I am, like they'll always love me. So if someone's publicly declaring that they don't recommend the situation they're in, which is a mother of teenage boys, I could see where that would hit really hard.

• 50:06Annie Elise?

  Yeah, because in his mind, he's probably thinking, you hate me anyway. You don't want anything to do with me. Like, I hate you guys because you don't love me. I, not, again, not justifying it, but like front, frontal lobe isn't fully developed. Clearly, there's history here. I don't know. Oh, gosh.

• 50:22Speaker 04

  Well, the neighbor had said that she believed also that Samantha's frequent posts about Brandon were starting to hurt him, saying she does talk kind of rude about the kids, and you know, they are teenagers. So kind of sharing our same sentiment. Now investigators have been clear that they do not believe that the Facebook post argument from earlier that day in the afternoon is what led to that attack that night. According to the police, that conversation was completely separate from what happened later that night. But Brandon was charged with one count of murder in Samantha's death and one count of attempted murder for the attack on Lance. And during his first court appearance on July 6th, his bond was set at $1 million. Thankfully Lance has been released from the hospital and is now

• 51:07Annie Elise?

  Oh, he survived.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  Yes, he survived and is continuing to recover from his injuries. But could you imagine surviving that? So now you're fully aware of what your son tried to do. You've lost your wife. And, I mean, you have a 16-year-old son that you've now got to care for and try to make sense of this whole thing. Which is, I can't even imagine that.

• 51:34Annie Elise?

  And who knows if this goes deeper too, like, not, again, not an excuse, but like, does he suffer from ODD or have some sort of like defiant disorder, personality trait? Like, is there something more? Or is this just a little entitled prick teenage boy who's frontal lobe isn't developed and he's angry at the world and thinks that he can do things like this? I mean, his dad will have so many Answers with all of this.

• 52:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. So two weeks after Samantha was killed, the community had gathered around for a candlelight vigil in her honor. Lance did attend the vigil and even spoke to everyone that came out that night. Which I can't even imagine what type of strength that would take to do that. And just to stand in front of a crowd and have to like face them because I'm sure there's a lot of shame there too. And just people have questions and comments and things like that. But it's nice that everybody came out to support their family and have this vigil. And I'm sure it was hopefully a little comforting to know that he had support from the community. Cause I'm sure this whole thing has just been incredibly devastating and unimaginable.

• 52:43Speaker 04

  I can't even, it's too much to even think about.

• 52:47Annie Elise?

  I, and like I'm thinking about the younger brother and like, how do you even reconcile all of that?

• 52:53Speaker 04

  Were there behavior problems with him too? And that was part of the post. So like now are they having to figure that out and?

• 53:01Annie Elise?

  Gives me a pit in my stomach. It really does.

• 53:05Speaker 04

  But also, yeah, I just, I feel badly.

• 53:11Speaker 04

  At those posts too.

• 53:13Annie Elise?

  It's sad all the way around. It's just, it's tragic every way you look at it. For, for the parents, for the son, for everybody involved. It's just the worst situation.

• 53:24Speaker 04

  And it's hard too, because I was thinking with the whole public, the Facebook post. Yeah, maybe it was in poor taste that she posted that. And I could certainly see where her sons would receive that and be hurt by that. But also if you are struggling with a situation like that and you're not sure how to discipline. And oftentimes, social media is where you seek community and answers. Obviously, there's a way in which to do that, but it's like, if you are struggling with a disciplinary issue with a child, like, what do you do?

• 53:54Annie Elise?

  Yeah. I don't know. I don't. I mean, that that's what will be interesting, too, with whatever his dad says, like, did they ever go to therapy? Did they try to get him into some sort of treatment? Was it just like typical teenage boy stuff and the mom was ranting and raving and pissed off about it like? Yeah, I wonder how deep it all goes. And I wonder if there is any forgiveness, or not even forgiveness, but still love there between the dad and his son, because going from saying, please stop this, I don't want to die, to then surviving it and facing your son. Clearly, as a parent, you still love your child, probably under any circumstance, but you also, they took away your wife,

• 54:35Annie Elise?

  the mother of your other son, they tried to take your life. Like, that has to be such a complex situation to be in. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. No. Um, okay, well, let me think. What else is going on? So like I said, the David prelim hearing is happening this week. I have seen your request, guys, for covering the Lindsay Clancy trial. In that case, I did first cover it back in twenty twenty three. I am going to do an updated deep dive on it. It will be out next week. For those of you who don't know, the trial's underway. I think they just started jury selection at the time of this reporting. She is the mom who is being charged with the murder of her three children,

• 55:15Annie Elise?

  killing them with exercise bands, a long history of, not long history, but like a good chunk of history of postpartum psychosis, her trying to seek treatment, trying to get help. It's a very, that too is a very complex case. I personally have steered away from it since twenty twenty three for personal reasons in my own life, which

• 55:36Annie Elise?

  don't want to get into. But um, I will be revisiting that, so that'll be out next week. And then There also was a major development in the Nolan Wells case this week. We were waiting on that independent autopsy, and finally, the independent pathologist who conducted that second autopsy said that Nolan's cause and manner of death should remain undetermined pending further investigation. Now, while the exam found no fractures or deep tissue injuries, it did identify a large area of Explained red discoloration in the soft tissue area at the back of Nolan's head. This is what the pathologist says is significant enough to warrant further investigation, though it's also inconclusive because of the level of decomposition that's involved.

• 56:20Annie Elise?

  The report also notes several key limitations, including the absence of Nolan's throat, more specifically, the anterior neck structures. Those had been retained during the initial autopsy, meaning the pathologist could not rule out a neck injury as a contributing factor. So ultimately, the report says that there are still just too many unanswered questions, including how Nolan entered the water, whether there was water in the airway, what toxicology will show, and whether or not there were any injuries to the front of his neck. Too much to determine exactly how he died. So continuing the investigation, and hopefully there will be more that is known soon.

• 57:00Annie Elise?

  But curious because as far as we know, the throat had been, yeah, like removed during that other autopsy. I know some of his organs, so they weren't able to see if there was water in the lungs. So still a lot of investigation happening. And in the meantime, any case requests or anything that you have your eye on that you want us to dig into a little bit deeper, send those requests to us either through the website, annieelise.com, or you can DM me directly at underscore Annie Elise on Instagram. We also have the True Crime with Annie Instagram. So flood our inbox. Let us know what you want. Um, I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want to tell you. We haven't done a song in a while.

• 57:38Speaker 04

  It was just fun.

• 57:39Annie Elise?

  I know. All right, guys. Other than that, please have a good rest of your week, a nice weekend, and until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, love your parents, and do not marry off your minor children. Yeah? Capisce. All right. Bye.

• 57:58Speaker 04

  Bye.