Dox Glasses

Kashif Hoda was getting onto a Southbound train at Harvard Square when a young man said he recognized him. The doors closed before he got a chance to ask the young man how, or who he was. A month later, the answer came in the form of a viral video. Harvard students AnhPhu Nguyen and Caine Ardefyio modified Meta's smart glasses so that you can search someone's face quickly, almost without them knowing, and pull up personal internet flotsam that they might no longer remember even exists. Think: pictures and articles from decades ago. Addresses. Voting records. Are we prepared for a future where this tool goes mainstream? Show notes: IXRAY (Google Doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iWCqmaOUKhKjcKSktIwC3NNANoFP7vPsRvcbOIup_BA/edit?tab=t.0) Two Students Created Face Recognition Glasses. It Wasn’t Hard. (The New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/technology/facial-recognition-glasses-privacy-harvard.html) Credits: This episode was produced by Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. It was hosted by Ben Brock Johnson, Amory Sivertson, and Grace Tatter.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:18Speaker 02

  WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

• 1:27Speaker 03

  Okay, hello Ben and Amory. Grace Tatter here on the We're Technology and Privacy Beat. Go Grace, go! Woo! Okay, so I want to tell you all about this guy I talked to last month. His name is Kashaf Huda, and he used to work at a biotech company outside of Boston. Unfortunately, not too long ago, he got laid off.

• 1:49Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh, sorry to hear it. Familiar tale. Yes.

• 1:52Speaker 03

  Indeed, but he actually seems to be doing totally fine with it. He said he's...

• 1:58Speaker 05

  Free, liberated from biotech at this point.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  Khashif and I were zooming. I was in New York and he was in a hotel in Hungary. Khashif tells me the silver lining of his unexpected unemployment: more time to travel, which he loves to do.

• 2:15Speaker 05

  The part of traveling that I began to like even more than just kind of being in different places and seeing different things, which is amazing, I don't mind at all, but it's just this human interactions that I have that leave a lasting impression on me.

• 2:33Speaker 03

  Back in September, Khashif had one of those human interactions with a lasting impression. He was waiting for the subway at Harvard Square when a college kid walked up to him.

• 2:44Speaker 05

  My impression was, this is a nerdy guy.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  A nerdy guy, Khashif thinks, for a couple of reasons.

• 2:49Speaker 05

  First, because Harvard, right? So nerdy guys at Harvard and MIT, there's a bunch of them. So I'm not surprised that they're there.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  The second thing that jumps out is the glasses on the nerdy guy's face.

• 3:01Amory Sivertson?

  Aren't we past the phase where glasses automatically make one nerdy?

• 3:06Speaker 03

  I think that's a really good point. And these actually are pretty stylish glasses. They're Ray-Bans. They have these thick, black frames, which are kind of in vogue right now, but they're definitely not subtle. Anyway, nerdy glasses or not, the kid asks him, is this the Ashmont train? Which Khashif thinks is a little strange.

• 3:26Speaker 05

  First of all, you can see, you're smart enough, you can see when the Ashmont train is coming, right?

• 3:30Speaker 03

  Khashif says it's pretty obvious that it's the train to Ashmont because that's the last stop on this train line.

• 3:36Ben Brock Johnson?

  Nerdy guy's not living up to his moniker, Nerdy Guy.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Second of all, according to Khashif, very few people stay on this train till the last stop.

• 3:45Speaker 05

  Ashmont? Nobody goes to Ashmont.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  And like I said, Khashif is usually the type of guy who seeks out conversations with strangers. He's looking for those random human interactions. Usually.

• 3:58Speaker 05

  I was not in the mood to have a conversation. So I was like, you know, whatever. I was like, yeah, this is it. And that's it.

• 4:06Speaker 03

  That was not it. The young man walks back to a group of other students, including one on a laptop.

• 4:13Speaker 05

  So there was some commotion. So I looked up to see what's going on. So I saw a bunch of kids sitting there, including that guy with the laptop, and they were just excited about something. I didn't pay much attention. Again, this is Harvard. These kind of things happen all the time. Harvard, MIT, kids are doing stuff.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  As the train, clearly marked as going to Ashmont, pulls into the station, the bespectacled student comes up to Kashif again. And this part is captured on video.

• 4:38Speaker 05

  Do you happen to be a person working on like minority stuff for like Muslims in India at all or something? Yes. Really? Are you Kashif? Yes. Oh, I've read your work before. That's super cool. I'm Anphu. Nice to meet you.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  OK, so Amory, Ben, say you're Kashif. A college kid comes up to you on the train and recognizes you. What do you think?

• 5:03Ben Brock Johnson?

  Happens all the time. I just take out my autograph signing pen because I'm a famous podcaster.

• 5:09Amory Sivertson?

  Yikes. I've been recognized exactly once and I thought I was being punked. I kept waiting. I truly, I had like a five-minute period of like, no.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Kashif had more of the Ben reaction because he also has a background in journalism. He covers Muslims in India, like the kid suggested in the video. And as journalists, we have a slightly larger than average digital footprint, right?

• 5:38Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yes, though I was, for the record, kidding.

• 5:42Speaker 05

  It's not like the first time I've been recognized. So there's a hubris as well. My ego got boosted.

• 5:50Speaker 03

  So Kashif was into this interaction. He did not mind it. But even though his ego was boosted, he still thought something was a little bit weird.

• 6:01Speaker 05

  I tweeted about this. Hey, I got recognized at Harvard's first station. I knew something was off and I just kind of timestamped this.

• 6:09Speaker 03

  Kashif timestamps it, as he says, and then kind of forgets about it. Until a month later, when a friend sends him a video that's popping off on X, a video made by two Harvard students.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  We built classes that let you identify anybody on the street.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  Kashif was unwittingly part of these students' attempt at an awareness campaign about the death of privacy.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  I'm Grace Ray Van Statter.

• 6:43Amory Sivertson?

  I'm Amory. I actually go to Ashmont pretty often, Sivertson.

• 6:47Ben Brock Johnson?

  I'm Ben "Taking Out My Autograph" Penn Johnson.

• 6:52Amory Sivertson?

  And from WBUR in Boston, we're Endless Thread.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  And today, we're looking at Doc's glasses.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  Okay, so in this viral video on X that our subway platform Star Kashif was featured in, we see these two Harvard students. And they're demonstrating how they can use these glasses to figure out personal information about their fellow students, other people they see on campus.

• 7:24Speaker 05

  You're from Bergen County Academies? Yeah. Your Korean name is Ju Un?

• 7:29Speaker 03

  Of course, we see Kashif being stopped as he gets on the train. Really? Are you Kashif?

• 7:35Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yes. Wow, Kashif looks like very tickled and also confused.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  They also pretend to recognize another woman on the same train platform. I think I met you through the Cambridge Community Foundation, right? And the video explains how these glasses supposedly work.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  So here's how it works. We stream the video from the glasses straight to Instagram and have a computer program monitor the stream. We use AI to detect when we're looking at someone's face. Then we scour the internet to find more pictures of that person. Finally, we use data sources like online articles and voter registration databases to figure out their name, phone number, home address, and relatives' names. And it's all fed back to an app we wrote on our phone.

• 8:15Amory Sivertson?

  A little unsettling.

• 8:18Ben Brock Johnson?

  Definitely unsettling.

• 8:22Speaker 03

  Last time I was in Boston, I went to visit Harvard's campus to talk to the students who made this video and these glasses.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  I'm Anh Phu Nguyen. I'm a junior at Harvard. My hometown is Ba Lop in Vietnam.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  I'm Kane Ardaphia. I'm also a junior at Harvard studying physics, and my hometown is Indiana.

• 8:41Speaker 03

  They call these glasses, by the way, eye x-ray.

• 8:45Ben Brock Johnson?

  They don't call them x-ray bands? That's bullshit, man. Come on.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  So Anh Phu and Kane used to run Harvard's VR, Virtual Reality Club, together, which is how they got the idea for these eye x-ray glasses. Because the club got their hands on Meta Ray-Ban Smart Glasses, which look like normal glasses but use Meta's AI technology. So you can use them to take pictures and record video. You can listen to music. They're basically like a phone for your face.

• 9:17Speaker 05

  We just thought it'd be cool to be able to guess people's names on the street.

• 9:22Ben Brock Johnson?

  Is that cool? Is it cool?

• 9:24Speaker 03

  Well, that's what Anh Phu and Kane begin to ask themselves. They're developing an app that uses these Meta glasses to guess people's names. But then they realize how much information can be linked to a face.

• 9:38Speaker 05

  So it will pull any instance of where your face appears online. So if your face appears on articles that talk about you, like your job, what you do, your past awards that you won, that went on some random article, or the high school you went to, if they posted your name, then that'll show up. And then if you ever leased a home or registered to vote in certain states, like the home address data is public for you. So it would pull that. You don't need to have any social media for this to work on you. All you need to have ever happened is someone posted a picture of your face with your name tied to it online. So it's kind of crazy in that way.

• 10:22Amory Sivertson?

  Whoa. So this is like what we do sometimes as journalists if we're trying to learn more about a source. You know, if we want to knock on their door or whatever. Except instead of searching with just someone's name or known information about them, you're just working with the real-time appearance of the person in front of you? That's kind of wild.

• 10:50Ben Brock Johnson?

  We should say, Grace, that this is a very, very, very interesting thing that Kane and Anfu were unable to demonstrate for you when you actually went to meet them, which just to say that out loud, you did not see it in action.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  True. They actually only used this app when they were filming the video. And they told me that it takes a long time to like hook up the server and make sure that it's logged into all of the search engines that they use to get this data. Also, the reverse face search engine doesn't work on everyone and the results aren't instantaneous. Anfu told me it takes about a minute and a half for the app to give you information about a person once they've been identified.

• 11:38Ben Brock Johnson?

  But that's long enough if you're waiting for the train to Ashmont.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  Especially in Boston, yeah.

• 11:43Ben Brock Johnson?

  Especially in Boston.

• 11:50Speaker 03

  So Anfu and Kane are pretty vague about how the app actually works. They didn't get into that many specifics with me, that much more than the video. Anfu told me that is in part because they're wary of how this technology could be used. We made a couple of major decisions to basically roll this out in a responsible way. So the goal was to slow down any bad actors while also allowing people to digest the information in a safe way and then do something about it. So we didn't open source anything, no live product demo online. We didn't sell any software. So we slowed down the distribution as much as possible. In the description for their video, Anfu and Kane link to a Google Doc that gives instructions for removing your data from a lot of the sources the app uses.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  So this really was meant to be a cautionary experiment. But how did Kashif Huda, one of the unwitting subjects of that experiment, come viral feel about it? We'll find out in a minute.

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• 14:44Speaker 03

  So we've been talking about an app that two college students developed for Meta's Smart Glasses that in theory allows you to just look at someone and pull up all of this information about them: home address, work history, et cetera, et cetera.

• 14:59Ben Brock Johnson?

  I believe they're called the Eye X-ray, Grace, the Eye X-rays?

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Yes. A lot of people on Reddit refer to them as Doc's Glasses. When Kashif realized what happened, that he had been seen by the Eye X-ray glasses, a lot of his friends expected him to be freaked out. I mean, that would be understandable, right?

• 15:20Amory Sivertson?

  I would be freaked out, yes.

• 15:22Speaker 03

  Kashif was actually not freaked out.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  I was amused, a bit of me like, yeah, I got scammed. Again, they didn't take any money or something. I was like, you know, I got fooled a little bit about this because I was feeling good about like, oh, wow, I got recognized. Like, no, that's not what happened.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  So being recognized, whether it's actually due to his journalism or whether it's just college kids running some sort of social experiment, is not a problem for Kashif. He was totally blasé about that. And that made me think about the difference between privacy and anonymity. This is something that also came up a few months ago when we worked on that episode about Telegram and Signal.

• 16:03Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, when we were talking about Signal, Andy Greenberg, who's a reporter for Wired, made this really interesting point that this encrypted messaging app is private because no one can read your messaging, but it's not actually anonymous because you have to sign up with your phone number.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Right, so anonymity and privacy are two fairly distinct things. And I kept thinking about that when I was talking to Kashif because basically what he was saying is that he's comfortable not having anonymity. He said that's in part because of the place he grew up, a place where anonymity is basically impossible.

• 16:39Speaker 05

  I grew up in India, a different world, different era.

• 16:44Speaker 05

  In a village, everybody recognizes everyone. Everybody knows about everyone, right? But there are pros and cons of that. One is that community comes around to you when you need them, right? But also that means, yeah, there's no anonymity there.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  Kashif said that the internet has the power to make the world feel like the village where he grew up. And he thinks that might have some upsides.

• 17:09Speaker 05

  I believe, and as a journalist, as a creative person, stories happen when we interact with each other. If we're not interacting, we're not, we're not being human.

• 17:24Amory Sivertson?

  I'm kind of with him, which isn't to say that I'm totally comfortable with the idea. I just more feel like it's inevitable that we live in a society and we interact with one another and we build our networks and those networks have even larger networks. And thus, we're not anonymous because we're three dimensional moving through the world, you know?

• 17:49Ben Brock Johnson?

  I get that and I like not being too chicken little about this kind of thing. And also, at the same time, I think the points that he is making are about the kinds of community that have existed before a lot of the technology that we're using, which is in some ways like isolating and separating. And so it's like a little complicated for me. Yeah, of course, like if I know something about you because you're my neighbor and I have contextual information, sure, like, yes, I know where you live and stuff like that. But we have like repeated real world connection that allows us to build a relationship that

• 18:34Ben Brock Johnson?

  is like based on expectations of safety and sharing space and, and things like that.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's fair. Kashif talked about how where he's from, it wasn't uncommon for someone to come knock on the door who usually a friend or someone who you actually know, but sometimes a stranger who just like maybe was a friend of a friend coming to just like, say hi, see if you're around.

• 19:00Speaker 05

  This interaction of neighbors or friends coming on and on used to be such a delight for us, like whatever mundane thing is happening, all of a sudden there's excitement in the air.

• 19:12Speaker 03

  Anonymity is no one being able to know who you are or come to your door. Privacy is being able to say like, hey, thanks for coming by, but I don't want to talk to you right now. You can't come into my house or you have to stay in a certain part of my house. You have to stay in the front room. Instead of being like, oh, yep, if you've come by and you recognize me, like come on in and go through all of my drawers, which is sometimes how privacy online feels like now. Like we just like kind of know that all these companies are rifling through our drawers, even if they got into our house in false pretenses.

• 19:45Amory Sivertson?

  I hate that analogy, but it's probably very appropriate.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Kasia seems to think that this technology could facilitate these kind of fun, unexpected encounters that he's valued throughout his life without opening the doors to visitors we don't want.

• 20:03Speaker 05

  It's how we utilize that technology to either improve our life, our community around it, our society, or we just freak out and stay inside the house in a bunker and say, I don't want to interact with anybody. That's fine. That's your choice.

• 20:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, I mean, I think, I think this is a good point. I used to want to have a technology that would exist where like if you were like two cars passing each other, going opposite directions, you could beam each other the music you were listening to.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 20:34Ben Brock Johnson?

  Like, I just thought that would be-

• 20:35Speaker 03

  You just want to beam them your music.

• 20:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  No, no, I want to receive theirs too. I want to receive theirs too. I think it'd be really cool to be able to like spontaneously share things in ways that like could create joy and connection, even if it's like creating joy and connection with somebody who you're just like, kind of like passing, passing by as you're passing through a space. So like, I, I get the sort of more open, joyful imagination of how technology could, like this could work.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  What about you, Amory? Do you want a positive version of this technology? Does this give you any ideas for joyful possibilities?

• 21:19Amory Sivertson?

  Growing up, my dad would give me a ride to school because there were no buses to the high school. And we would see some familiar people leaving their houses at the same time. And at certain points along the commute to my high school, we'd see the same people. And we kind of just, we gave them names. We sort of imagined what their, what their sitch was, you know, what they might do for work, where are they going? Why, you know, ooh, they have a new bag. Maybe they got that at such and such place. And so we'd kind of do the, um, the fake version of this anyway, but it became like a fun, delightful little

• 22:02Amory Sivertson?

  game where we could imagine who these people were. And I'm just thinking about how sad it would be if glasses like these were normalized, at least in this particular instance, if glasses like these were normalized to the extent that suddenly that's not- You know, Bonnie, I'll just make up a name right now. That's not Bonnie who works at the library. I know exactly who that is, you know? I'd rather, I'd rather just play make believe, I think.

• 22:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do think that a lot of the fun in that is the imagination aspect and that our lives are perhaps richer for having some mystery still in them. And that we don't need to, we don't need to know everything. Especially because I don't know about you all, but when it comes to privacy, when it comes to like the information that might be linked to my face, I feel like you almost have to have like a bunker-like mentality if you actually want that privacy, if you actually want to ensure that the only data available to other people is what you want them to have. It just already feels too late. Like, I just know all of my information is already out there. And it seems like you would just have to like,

• 23:17Speaker 03

  yeah, go live in a bunker and throw away your phone and disconnect from society to have true privacy. And I appreciate Kane and Anfu like putting in their Google Doc how to take your name and your information off of these, I think they have like five search engines, but it just feels like whack-a-mole because you take your name off of one thing and it's, it's just going to show up somewhere else. And I don't know what to do about that.

• 23:45Ben Brock Johnson?

  I really like that point, Grace. And I think we have these like massive technology platforms. And I actually think we need massive technology standard enforcement as well. And, you know, regulation. Like, we need to be protected from big tech corporations rifling through our drawers. Or at least we need to be able to know when they're doing it and have some agency in saying, no, this is not okay. Please stop.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what Kane and Anfu think, too. They're basically like, if we weren't going to create this app, somebody else was. And so there needs to be regulation. Here's what Kane said.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  A lot of the issues in the world of privacy are not really limited by technology. Like, the technology is all already there in order to do like lots, to gather lots and lots of information. So I think it's kind of on the onus of, on like the regulatory. Unlike policy, in order to kind of put safeguards on a lot of this technology, because the technology kind of by itself can sort of just run wild.

• 24:59Speaker 03

  So we end every Endless Threat episode by saying that this podcast is about the blurred lines between the internet and real life, or something silly. And clearly, we're overdue for a really big reckoning about just how blurry these lines can get. And I think that's what Anfu and Kane successfully demonstrated. What information about us on the internet do we want to be made accessible when our real world face gets scanned? Everyone I talked to for this episode, Koshif, Kane, Anfu, everyone agreed that we need to be having these conversations and government and tech companies need to pay attention to our answers.

• 25:38Ben Brock Johnson?

  I agree with this, too. I imagine this almost like an online dating platform, you know? Like, a guy who has never had one is imagining this, admittedly. But, but like, that's an example of how you control how you're presented to the world, right? So a meaningful, standardized, or regulated version of that could be nice. It's like the awkward social work event where everyone wears name tags and you're like, hello, Frederick, I'm Ben, I like long walks on the beach. That doesn't seem like so bad. But all accessible information about me scraped off the internet and thrown up in a hands-free display, and I don't know that's happening, that seems bad.

• 26:19Amory Sivertson?

  Yeah, and there's no undoing it, you know? So what would motivate a tech company to put certain genies back into certain bottles when it comes to information that's already out there and is being distributed and, you know, being shared with we don't know? So it's good for us to be more aware of what's available. But I guess we have to think about how to turn that back on the tech companies that are doing the sharing of the information. And I don't know how to do that.

• 26:51Speaker 03

  Me neither, but I don't think anyone wants this. No one, even people who work for the tech companies. I don't think anyone wants to live in a world where someone can look at you and instantly pull up a picture from like your middle school track meet. Even Kashif, he seemed so chill about his face being connected to his journalism. But he actually has made a pretty conscious effort to keep that part of his identity separate from other parts of his life.

• 27:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  Huh.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. When I tried to find his reporting about India, I couldn't find it anywhere. And that's because Kashif publishes his work under a slightly different name.

• 27:30Speaker 05

  I don't want my work people to know about my journalism, so I kind of separated it out.

• 27:34Amory Sivertson?

  Well, well, well. Kashif is a trickster after all.

• 27:40Speaker 03

  But I totally get it, right? Like, we're always curating different parts of ourselves for different audiences. Like, Ben, you mentioned dating apps. And I guess if we all had some sort of standardized profile that came up when someone looked at us, like, I'm fine with that conceptually. But I definitely do not want someone to like be able to look at me on the subway and be able to access random pieces of information I put online for specific audiences. Like, my actual old dating profiles, those are not for public consumption. That would be alarming.

• 28:14Ben Brock Johnson?

  Worse than the middle school track meet shot? I don't know.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  Okay, y'all, so if we did live in a world where a profile that everyone could see just by looking at us with eye x-ray glasses came up, what would you be comfortable having on the profile?

• 28:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  Ben Brock Johnson, 243624, talk to me about tacos.

• 28:45Speaker 03

  I thought you were like giving your social security number.

• 28:50Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's given my measurements. Those are my measurements. 243624.

• 28:54Amory Sivertson?

  That means nothing to me. Truly nothing. I do not understand how man measurements work.

• 29:01Amory Sivertson?

  I don't know. I guess I'd want like my most daring feet. You could know my most daring feet, which what even is that? I went skydiving once.

• 29:11Amory Sivertson?

  And that I love a vegetable. That makes me sound really boring.

• 29:19Speaker 03

  The skydiving is cool.

• 29:20Amory Sivertson?

  A rabbit. Ask me about my rabbit.

• 29:23Ben Brock Johnson?

  There you go.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  I was thinking even more boring. I'd be okay with like my hometown on there. Like if you want to come talk to me about Winston-Salem, I'm so happy to discuss.

• 29:33Ben Brock Johnson?

  Very southern of you, Grace. Very southern girl of you.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Anything that's like not going to be controversial. I don't want anyone to like see something about me and want to spit in my face. I don't think, like Khashoggi, I do not actually think I would want people to look at me and like know where I work, even though that is probably the information that is most linked with my face at this point.

• 29:58Amory Sivertson?

  I guess it might be fun to know the greatest trip someone's been on. I'll go with that. Like, tell me about your greatest trip. So something that you wouldn't be able to find out online, but would be a great conversation starter. That's it. I want a conversation starter so that you can, you can find out more and more from there. And I feel like I've been to a conference or something where there was something like this, where you had a QR code on your badge and people could just scan your badge and know specific information about you.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  But not in a creepy way.

• 30:36Ben Brock Johnson?

  I feel like we're talking ourselves into creating a planetary conference, which is like the worst boring dystopia outcome of all time when you really think about it.

• 30:46Amory Sivertson?

  It's true because we should be going up to people and saying, hello, what's up? You like soup too?

• 30:58Amory Sivertson?

  I don't know why I landed on soup. Or if it looks like the person wants to be left the hell alone, just leave them the hell alone.

• 31:06Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah. Yes. Be introduce yourself and be kind, or just, you know, if they look grumpy, steer clear.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  Words to live by, whatever you're wearing on your face.

• 31:25Ben Brock Johnson?

  This episode was produced by Grace Tatter, who was wearing Ray-Bans at the time. It was co-hosted by myself, Emery Sivertson, and Grace Tatter, who was wearing Ray-Bans at the time.

• 31:35Amory Sivertson?

  It was mixed and sound designed by our production manager, Paul Vikes. Who doesn't need Ray-Bans to look cool?

• 31:41Ben Brock Johnson?

  Our managing producer is Suma Tajoshi. The rest of our team is Dean Russell and Emily Jankowski.

• 31:47Amory Sivertson?

  Endless Thread is a show about the blurred lines between online communities and the train to Ashmont, which will be here in about 20 more minutes.

• 31:55Ben Brock Johnson?

  If you've got an unsolved mystery, an untold history, or a crazy story from the internets, or real life, or both, that you want us to tell, hit us up, [email protected].

• 32:26Speaker 07

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken?, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questrom School of Business. Follow Is Business Broken? wherever you get your podcasts, and listen on for a preview of a recent episode featuring Janet Kang, Executive Director of the Just Horizons Alliance, on who stands to benefit from AI in education. I am absolutely in favor of AI in learning in the right context. And just to explain why you're excited about it. Oh, my gosh, individualized support, right? Personalization, and to be able to scale quality education in places where it was historically impossible. So for certain kinds of learners with different kinds of learning styles. and disabilities.

• 33:09Speaker 07

  For example, speakers of different languages. There are amazing ways AI can boost learning. It just has to be with the right context. And age appropriateness is something we do a lot of work in because it is very different depending on where in that maturity cycle you are in terms of how your brain develops. Find the full episode by searching for Is Business Broken wherever you get your podcasts and learn more about the Marotra Institute for Business Markets and Society at ibms.edu.edu.

• 33:46Speaker 00

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