500 - Knot for Naught

On today’s 500th (!!) episode, Karen covers the Lost Women of Highway 20 and Georgia tells the story of the Hollywood Bling Ring. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Watch full episodes of My Favorite Murder on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Karen Kilgariff?

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Cash Flow Crunch. OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:36Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ Plus. Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom.

• 0:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 0:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 0:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 1:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 1:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:59Georgia Hardstark?

  To My Favorite Murder.

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:01Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:02Karen Kilgariff?

  This is our 500th episode.

• 2:04Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so bananas. I can't even come to grips with it.

• 2:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It is. It feels like five and it feels like 500,000.

• 2:12Georgia Hardstark?

  It does. Both. Both.

• 2:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yum.

• 2:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you ever think we'd get to this number when we start, when we were making single-digit puns?

• 2:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Back in my old apartment in Hollywood.

• 2:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Taking so much time to name these shows.

• 2:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 2:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Really, a couple of days worth of, wait, wait.

• 2:29Georgia Hardstark?

  I thought of one.

• 2:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's a better one.

• 2:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 2:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, no, it's pretty wild.

• 2:33Georgia Hardstark?

  It is. Cheers.

• 2:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey. Cheers.

• 2:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Good job. 500?

• 2:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Great job.

• 2:37Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's it.

• 2:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And goodbye.

• 2:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And that's the last.

• 2:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. And then we're both raptured.

• 2:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, I'm a Jew.

• 2:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, don't take me.

• 2:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Wait, wait, no, no, no, I don't want to go there. I want to go somewhere else, please. I want to go to Ireland.

• 2:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Do they have any? That's a different kind of rapture, the Guinness Rapture.

• 2:55Georgia Hardstark?

  What's going on?

• 2:56Karen Kilgariff?

  God, nothing. I mean, we had incredible shows in Boston.

• 2:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Very tie-tie, two shows in one night.

• 3:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, by the time this episode goes up, we'll have been in Salt Lake City and then tonight, we'll be in Oakland.

• 3:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 3:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is exhausting to just think about.

• 3:11Karen Kilgariff?

  It's the future!

• 3:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Hopefully you guys are enjoying the shows. Go to myfavormurder.com/live to get your tickets.

• 3:16Karen Kilgariff?

  And thank you, Boston, for just a delightful, power-packed evening of all kinds of things. I mean, everything happened in those two shows.

• 3:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Speaking of, I have a movie recommendation because it made me cry, which I don't do.

• 3:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, you do. You've started to.

• 3:33Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, I know. Once in a while, I like, there's certain things, but I really need those, those good cries. And there's this thing that all my girlfriends talk about and agree upon, which is that when you're on a plane, you cry harder at movies and it's a good cry, and airplane movie cries are the best cries.

• 3:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 3:50Georgia Hardstark?

  And I fucking never, ever had one. And I've always been like, that sounds nice to have in your life. And it never happened until we were on our way home yesterday from Boston.

• 4:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 4:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And I found myself sobbing in my seat from a movie that I think you'll love. I'm sure you love this movie. It's a British fucking epic World War II love story.

• 4:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Hmm.

• 4:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Atonement.

• 4:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, so good.

• 4:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my fucking god.

• 4:20Karen Kilgariff?

  The Typing Keys soundtrack as she runs around that.

• 4:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Everything about that, yes.

• 4:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Incredible.

• 4:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And so the end, I have a video of it, I'm gonna make a video. I just was sobbing in my seat.

• 4:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm sorry, you have video of yourself sobbing?

• 4:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep, because it was so good. It felt, I was like, finally, I'm a real girl. I like, I felt real for the first time in my life.

• 4:37Karen Kilgariff?

  We gotta get you to the place where you do it and then you, it's not content.

• 4:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Why wouldn't it be content? Why wouldn't it be content?

• 4:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Why wouldn't it?

• 4:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Why wouldn't everything be content? Look around.

• 4:48Karen Kilgariff?

  So wait, can you do a little reenactment of what, so you start to cry, oh, this is really sad?

• 4:53Georgia Hardstark?

  And I was like, oh my god, I'm crying. I was like, I felt like, oh my god, I have emotions. This is so cool.

• 4:58Karen Kilgariff?

  They're in there.

• 4:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Karen Kilgariff?

  They're in there.

• 5:00Georgia Hardstark?

  So either things are going really well and I'm like, breaking through, or things are going really poorly and I'm crying a lot.

• 5:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Either way, the rapture's coming.

• 5:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I, when I learned that it's very good to cry because it is one of the ways the body releases cortisol. Cause I always had, like, not as much shut down feelings. It was more like, you're not allowed to do this and no one has time for this.

• 5:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I have part of that too.

• 5:27Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's kind of that thing of like, I start feeling it and then I just like, fully muscle it down.

• 5:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I think that's what it is. Or it's almost like, this isn't gonna do anything.

• 5:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 5:35Georgia Hardstark?

  You're wasting your time and everyone else is.

• 5:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Stop it. Yeah.

• 5:40Karen Kilgariff?

  What will come of this? Nothing. Then stop. But then like, learning that where it's like, no, no, it's for you. You get, you get to release some of that goddamn cortisol.

• 5:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. There are times when I'm like, I know that if I fucking started bawling right now, I would feel so much better in 20 minutes. But I can't do it and I don't wanna do the things that I know will make me do it, like think sad thoughts. Because I'm trying so hard not to do that anyways.

• 6:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you gotta, I don't think that's the way to do it. I think you just have to be open when it really comes.

• 6:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:07Karen Kilgariff?

  But that's a hard thing. It's all easy to say and hard to do.

• 6:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Well, Atonement, the movie Atonement, it's like 2013, I think. Oh, Keira Knightley and what's his adorable face from?

• 6:20Karen Kilgariff?

  James Mack?

• 6:21Georgia Hardstark?

  McAvoy.

• 6:22Karen Kilgariff?

  McAvoy.

• 6:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 6:23Karen Kilgariff?

  He's the greatest.

• 6:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And Sarosi, how do you say?

• 6:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Of the liver.

• 6:30Georgia Hardstark?

  How do you say her name?

• 6:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Saoirse.

• 6:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Saoirse.

• 6:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Saoirse Ronan.

• 6:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. And fucking little what's her face from the fucking, the football.

• 6:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Keira Knightley?

• 6:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 6:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Juno Temple?

• 6:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, thank you, Juno Temple.

• 6:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, from, I almost just said Ed Hardy. This is the saddest conversation we've ever had.

• 6:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's edit this all out.

• 6:49Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the 500th conver- no, no, no, it's good.

• 6:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 6:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It's good. This is exactly our kind of podcast.

• 6:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, great, great, great, great.

• 6:55Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't, we, we were basically up for 48 hours straight. So this is the result, this is what podcasting looks like when, when you're doing it like that.

• 7:03Georgia Hardstark?

  You overdo it.

• 7:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 7:04Georgia Hardstark?

  When you commit too much, just too much stuff.

• 7:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna give you a recommendation for your next crying movie.

• 7:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 7:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause it, it's a crier.

• 7:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, everyone give me airplane crying movies. Karen, go ahead.

• 7:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, this movie, first of all, I was about to say Atonement again. This movie stars Alan Rickman and Juliet Stevenson, British movie, very art-housey. But an amazing director, it was one of his first big ones. I can't remember what director, it's like a great director. And it is called Truly Madly Deeply.

• 7:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I've heard of it.

• 7:34Karen Kilgariff?

  It's really brilliantly, it's like one of those things where I bet the person who, when they decided to make it, read the script and was like, holy shit. It's like, great, beautifully written, very real and true.

• 7:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 7:46Karen Kilgariff?

  But then also a little bit magical.

• 7:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, because it's so funny, with Atonement, I was like, this is like a book I would read, and normally I'd been like, I wish I read the book. But this is like the first time I've been like, I'm so glad I watched the movie because there's so many little details. Like I get cinematography now with the typing being part of the, the background and the music and the little moments that you just can't see when you're listening to or reading a book.

• 8:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 8:12Georgia Hardstark?

  And actually, if you love the movie Atonement, I highly recommend the author Kate Morton. She does very similar style, that World War II, like epic.

• 8:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Kind of historical.

• 8:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and like seeing Dunkirk, the way they show it, like I, you know, you can't, you can picture it all you want when you're reading it, which I fucking love. But it was just done so well that I just don't think I would have, my, my imagination would have never taken me there.

• 8:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And I think you're so right, those war scenes in that movie are so gigantic and like really put you there.

• 8:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Realistic, and then they like slice in real fucking footage from the time. I mean, it was just, I think, one of my favorite movies I've seen in a long time.

• 8:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, Molly, please correct me when I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that it's the same director as Pride and Prejudice. Am I wrong about that? Yes. God damn it. Same.

• 9:04Georgia Hardstark?

  500 episodes, the first time you're wrong about anything. Can you believe it?

• 9:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 9:09Speaker 04

  Joe Wright directed Pride and Prejudice, the new one.

• 9:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh huh.

• 9:12Speaker 04

  Anthony Mingala directed Truly Madly Deeply.

• 9:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no, no, no, but, but Atonement.

• 9:16Speaker 04

  Oh, Atonement. Wait, okay, you might not be, hold on.

• 9:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Woo! Oh, my God, Second Chance.

• 9:21Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm wrong. You're right.

• 9:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God!

• 9:24Georgia Hardstark?

  500 episodes!

• 9:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God, it feels so great.

• 9:27Georgia Hardstark?

  How do you feel here?

• 9:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 9:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Congratulations.

• 9:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you so much. Oh, my God, I guess the first I'd like to thank, The Rapture.

• 9:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's just kick the box. Uh huh.

• 9:36Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess I have to thank Georgia, because she's the reason I'm here. Thanks, Georgia.

• 9:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven Rames.

• 9:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Steven.

• 9:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Steven.

• 9:43Karen Kilgariff?

  R.I.P.

• 9:47Georgia Hardstark?

  We love you, Steven. Good job. Congratulations.

• 9:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you so much. But Anthony, it's because when I watched it, loving The Pride and Prejudice so much, I was like, this man is unbelievable. But Anthony Mingala is the director of Truly Madly Deeply, went on to direct The English Patient.

• 10:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, such a good book.

• 10:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So.

• 10:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course, I read the book.

• 10:08Karen Kilgariff?

  She always brags about the book.

• 10:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm gonna get rid of these.

• 10:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, good idea. All right. Well, that was amazing. Thank you, Molly. And thank you for your honesty and your vulnerability. Um, yeah.

• 10:18Georgia Hardstark?

  And you're producing all these episodes, not 500, but it probably feels like it.

• 10:23Karen Kilgariff?

  It probably feels, these days, there's three. So, oh, you know what I was gonna say for the 500th? And this, I don't know if this has happened to you, we've probably talked about it before, if it has, but I think it was the first time it happened to me. When I was driving to work last week before we left for a tour, I got off the freeway, I had just never seen a bumper sticker. I'd seen pictures of bumper stickers.

• 10:45Georgia Hardstark?

  On your own, yeah, yeah.

• 10:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly. So, not from my own car.

• 10:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And so, I pull up, and it's S.S.G.G.M. on the right side in the little talking

• 10:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 10:54Karen Kilgariff?

  bubble. And on the left side, there's just a sticker of Bigfoot. And I was like, this is my, this is my friend I've never met before. And I'm just sitting there, and I was like, honk, honk.

• 11:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Just like, like that. And the person, I was looking at them through their own, like, rearview mirror. And they kind of weren't turning around. So I think they were just like, why is this asshole honking at me? So then I was like, honk, honk, honk, honk, honk, honk. And I, then I rolled my window down and stuck my arm and my whole head out the window. And I was like that. And they were like, ugh, they kind of looked horrified.

• 11:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Really like, I borrowed my best friend's car and I don't know who this, this woman is who's waving her whole body. She must also be, I, my friend who loves that fucking podcast, this must be another person who loves that fucking podcast.

• 11:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Or loves Bigfoot.

• 11:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Loves Bigfoot.

• 11:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Loves.

• 11:37Georgia Hardstark?

  But did she finally, did it dawn?

• 11:39Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so. I think at the end.

• 11:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, if you have a SSD GM sticker and, and you're in Burbank, like.

• 11:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, what's up?

• 11:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Karen Wave said hi to you. Was that you? Let us know.

• 11:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It was, yeah, let us know. But also, it was really exciting, even though I know that people like this podcast and people support this podcast.

• 11:57Georgia Hardstark?

  No, they don't.

• 11:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a.

• 12:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Do they?

• 12:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Get real. But to see it like that in the wild, it truly was kind of like, oh, almost like being able to see it through the eyes of the other. Like, that's what this kind of looks like.

• 12:11Georgia Hardstark?

  It's always exciting.

• 12:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was cool.

• 12:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Cool. Well, beside having a podcast and 500 episodes of it, we also have a podcast network.

• 12:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, thousands of episodes on that thing.

• 12:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's called Exactly Right Media, and here are a few highlights.

• 12:24Karen Kilgariff?

  My Favorite Murder now has a brand new YouTube channel.

• 12:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yay.

• 12:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So you can watch full episodes of this podcast, mini-sodes, shorts, and more at myfavoritemurder.video or by searching My Favorite Murder on YouTube.

• 12:38Georgia Hardstark?

  They're holding us hostage and making us fucking 40-plus women make videos. And so, please.

• 12:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Not YouTube. We really like YouTube.

• 12:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Not YouTube, just in general. Molly, please go watch them. So they're not for not.

• 12:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. All of our strivings and lips liner, lips liner.

• 12:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Lips liner and contouring is not for not. And for all your other favorite Exactly Right shows, like this podcast will kill you, Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, Buried Bones, I Said No Gifts, you can still find them all at youtube.com/ExactlyRightMedia.

• 13:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's also where you can find MFM Animated. That's right. Our MFM Animated's are over at Exactly Right Media's YouTube. Two page. And this week, we have a brand new clip from the one and only Nick Terry, featuring my iconic, and I'm only saying that because it's written here.

• 13:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Drunk Karen voice from Mini Sode 63.

• 13:31Georgia Hardstark?

  My absolute favorite. It's so good. Go watch it. And if that's not enough content for you, then you, and the crying content that I make, then you should join the fan cult at fancult.supercast.com for ad free episodes of My Favorite Murder, exclusive audio and video, merch discounts, and access to our private Discord server.

• 13:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, one last thing, as we said, we are on tour and there are still some gold VIP packages available that include exclusive merch bundles, a signed poster, and more. So check your city availability and grab tickets at myfavoritemurder.com/live.

• 14:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And thanks for doing all of that.

• 14:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And more.

• 14:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And caring at all about any of it.

• 14:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we appreciate you so much.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 14:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.

• 14:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new Salted Caramel flavor from Kachava.

• 14:51Karen Kilgariff?

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• 14:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with protein, fiber, greens, and so much more.

• 15:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Their new Salted Caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt, so you get that salty-sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.

• 15:13Georgia Hardstark?

  When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.

• 15:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I really do love Kachava, and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.

• 15:29Georgia Hardstark?

  It's an easy way to get everything you need and it tastes good, too, which is just huge bonus.

• 15:33Karen Kilgariff?

  So embrace your salty side.

• 15:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.

• 15:39Karen Kilgariff?

  That's kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM.

• 15:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 15:44Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 15:49Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 15:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 16:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 16:08Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 16:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 16:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 16:22Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 16:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 16:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 16:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 16:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocates do not provide medical or legal advice or services, must be 18 years or older.

• 16:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 16:48Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes and it's covered by insurance.

• 16:51Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health dot com slash murder.

• 16:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 16:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 16:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 17:00Karen Kilgariff?

  You're first, right? Yes, I am. This is a straight-up true crime story, and just as a trigger warning, it includes mention of sexual assault. It also takes place in and around one major roadway in the Pacific Northwest, Highway 20 in Oregon. That highway cuts across the state west to east, running from the Pacific coast to Idaho, often through very remote areas. So this story is about six victims, all women, whose lives were either ended or torn apart on this highway. They were all different ages and came from different walks of life, and we know more about some of these cases than we do about others. But what we will learn is that one psychopathic man who knew Highway 20 better than

• 17:44Karen Kilgariff?

  most is presumed to be responsible for what happened to all of them and potentially many more women who have gone missing in the state of Oregon. This is the story of suspected serial killer, convicted murderer, and Oregon State highway mechanic, John Arthur Ackroyd. Oh, my God. Maren basically got most of the research for this story from an award-winning multi-part series called Ghosts of Highway 20, produced by Oregonian journalists Noel Crombie, Dave Killen, and Beth Nakamura. We begin in 1977 with 20-year-old Marlene Gabrielson. Marlene is originally from Alaska. She's a member of the Inupiaq tribe, but now she lives in the town of Lebanon in northwestern

• 18:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Oregon with her husband and their brand-new baby daughter. So, one night, the couple decides to drop their baby off with a sitter and head out to the rodeo in Sisters, Oregon, which is like an hour and a half away. And Maren left me a note, but I think it's a note worth reading, which is that Marlene is ID'd in this research because she very intentionally and very powerfully identifies herself in the Oregonians' reporting. Wow. Which is really amazing for what she has been through. So, at some point that evening, when they're at the rodeo, Marlene decides to head home alone. She said that she doesn't really remember the specifics here, but it seems like this happened because her and her husband got into an argument. What we know for sure is that Marlene's husband stays behind with the car.

• 19:12Karen Kilgariff?

  And she goes, and because it's the late 70s, she's like, "I'll just hitchhike home." Totally. Very common in the late 70s. She's hitchhiking, and before long, a car pulls over, and inside, a stranger introduces himself as John. Nothing about him rings any immediate alarm bells for Marlene. He says he's in his late 20s, he's back in town after spending time in the Army, and he works for a local welding company. So, Marlene does get a ride home from John along Highway 20 towards Lebanon, as promised. And this highway, basically, at certain parts, are just long, dark, isolated stretches of road that are submerged. Rounded by dense evergreen forest. And that's all that's out there. And there's some old logging roads that cut off from the highway, but that's basically it.

• 19:57Karen Kilgariff?

  So out in the middle of all of that, suddenly John pulls over and violently drags Marlene out of her seat and puts a knife to her throat, threatening to kill her unless she does what he says. He then tears her clothes off, using his blade to cut her underwear and her boots off of her. And then he rapes her. After the attack, he tells Marlene, quote, "Now what do I do with you?" Oh my god. So she knows what this means. He's considering killing her. But even in these horrific circumstances, Marlene comes up with an ingenious plan. Somehow she starts to act, and very convincingly act, like she's charmed by John. And it actually works, so much so, he asks her to be his girlfriend.

• 20:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And of course, she says yes, and I'll be her girlfriend as long as you take me home right now. And he drives her home, knife still at hand. When they get back to Lebanon, Marlene is able to get out of his car alive and go home. Oh my god. So the first family member she encounters when she's there is her mother-in-law. And her mother-in-law is shocked to see the state that Marlene is in. So she urges Marlene to get in shower and go clean herself up. And Marlene says, "No, that would wash away evidence. I need to go straight to the hospital to get a rape kit." Oh my god, incredible. Yeah, and she even gives her clothes to the police from that night with all the information that she can remember about John Arthur Ackroyd.

• 21:22Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's the late seventies, so it's not surprising, but it's always heartbreaking hearing these stories. Instead of protecting her, these investigators immediately doubt her story. The fuck? Uh huh. He cut her boots. Yeah. Like, what the fuck, dude? But also, she's a native woman. Right. So these are these built-in cultural excuses why people don't have to care. Yeah. Don't need empathy, or why they are, can be lazy. Yeah. And also just that that energy and attitude around rape victims at that time.

• 21:52Georgia Hardstark?

  At the time, yeah.

• 21:54Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so bad, they actually make Marlene take a polygraph and they decide she's lying about the sexual assault. So ultimately, they choose not to prosecute John Ackroyd. And years later, Marlene will tell reporter Noel Crombie, quote, "I always thought that's why these people get paid to protect you. They care, that's what I thought, but they made me feel like a smelly drunken native, so I just shrank. If they had only listened to me," end quote. So John Ackroyd never faces any legal consequences for Marlene's brutal assault. Although, and this is obviously cold comfort and eye for an eye, he does get his ass kicked by Marlene's husband.

• 22:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 22:33Karen Kilgariff?

  But the problem is that it's not just Marlene who suffers because of these investigators' dereliction of duty. It will lead to deadly consequences for many other women.

• 22:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, because now he knows, like, oh, I can't let them live, right?

• 22:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and also that maybe it won't be that big of a deal.

• 22:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 22:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Whatever I decide to do.

• 22:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 22:53Karen Kilgariff?

  So, fast forward about a year and a half from Marlene's assault, and now it's late December 1978. And John Ackroyd is employed by the state of Oregon as a highway mechanic. So in this job, he drives up and down Highway 20, usually between Bend and Newport, helping stranded motorists repairing equipment, clearing wrecks, and maintaining remote stretches of road. This is literally a horror movie.

• 23:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Like.

• 23:17Georgia Hardstark?

  You've been given this power and a position of trust.

• 23:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 23:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Not even just trust, but like, you have no other choice but to trust this person, or like, rely on this person.

• 23:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, the good faith that this person that's going to show up in a tow truck is helping you and not going to hurt you.

• 23:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 23:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Doesn't seem like it should be that much to ask. This job also gives him unique access to and familiarity with this highway as he navigates it alone in his work truck with little to no supervision. So on Christmas Eve, 1978, 35-year-old Kay Turner, who's a public health manager from Eugene, is on vacation with her husband and some friends in Camp Sherman, which is about 15 miles from Sisters, which is where Marlene and her husband went to the rodeo. Kay decides that she's going to go out for a She's a serious runner. She doesn't think twice about going and doing her workout routine. She tells her husband she'll probably be home in about an hour. After two hours pass and she still isn't back, her friends start searching for her. And soon the police join

• 24:16Karen Kilgariff?

  them and comb the area, wondering if maybe Kay somehow got lost out in the wilderness. And then they find some Nike running shoe prints that they think are Kay's, but there's also a large boot print there and signs of a struggle in the nearby dirt. In stark contrast to how Marlene is treated, though, the police immediately take Kay's case very seriously. She's a white woman. They immediately start to interview locals, and as they do, one name keeps coming up, John Ackroyd. He's interviewed on January 11th, 1979, a couple of weeks after Kay goes missing, and he admits that he did see her running the morning of Christmas Eve. But the police get sidetracked. When they dig

• 24:57Karen Kilgariff?

  into Kay's private life, they learn that she's had extramarital affairs. So they focus on those leads, and they start scrutinizing her grieving husband.

• 25:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude.

• 25:07Karen Kilgariff?

  But this is all a dead end, and John Ackroyd manages, once again, to not be investigated. Eight months later, John Ackroyd reinserts himself into Kay's still-active case. One afternoon, he walks into a store in Camp Sherman where Kay went missing, and claims that he's just gone hunting and found bones and a pair of jogging shorts in the woods. He insists that these clothes must be Kay Turner's. So when investigators arrive at the scene and they speak to John, they immediately feel like he knows more than he's letting on. And when he's eventually polygraphed, he fails a question about whether he'd ever touched Kay, and he starts spinning a whole new theory. Now, he suddenly claims that he'd first found Kay's body back in February, two months after she went missing, and he

• 25:52Karen Kilgariff?

  says she was lying in the snow with her throat cut and several visible bullet wounds. He tells police that he didn't report it then because he was afraid of becoming a suspect. Investigators smell a rat, and finally, John Ackroyd is on their radar, but they don't have any hard evidence, so they have to let him go. 12 years go by and now it's 1990 and the investigators assigned to the Kay Turner case get a call from the Lynn County District Attorney. So to give you a sense of location, to get to Lynn County from Camp Sherman where Kay was last seen, it's an hour's drive west on Highway 20. Lynn County is also where Marlene lives and Sisters, Oregon is in nearby Deschutes County. So all of these areas are in the same general swath of Oregon and they're all connected

• 26:37Karen Kilgariff?

  by Highway 20. So when the DA asks investigators if they've heard of a Lynn County resident named John Arthur Ackroyd, of course, they say they have. The DA then explains that John's stepdaughter, 13-year-old Rashonda Pickle, has just been reported missing.

• 26:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm.

• 26:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Rashonda is a young girl. She's playful, she's silly, she loves animals, she's very close with her big brother Byron, who's a year older than her. Rashonda's mother, Linda, describes her as, quote, "wonderful" and adds, quote, "you couldn't ask for anything sweeter." But life is not safe at home for Rashonda because in the mid-'80s, her mom marries John Ackroyd, believing that he's a good man, that she's providing stability for herself and her children. Instead, John reveals himself almost immediately as violent and abusive, particularly towards his stepchildren. Rashonda's in the fifth grade, she starts showing up to school with clear signs of physical abuse. She'll then confide to her friends that her stepfather is also sexually abusing her.

• 27:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Rashonda tries to stay with relatives or friends as much as she can. She's in fifth grade.

• 27:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, no, that's just heartbreaking.

• 27:45Karen Kilgariff?

  So she doesn't have to live under the same roof as him and she does everything she can to avoid being alone with him. She and Byron lean on each other during this time. They just focus on turning 18, when they can finally escape his abuse and his household once and for all. In July of 1990, Rashonda finally tells her biological father about this abuse she's been suffering at the hands of John. And he, the biological father, lives in a different part of Oregon, so he calls the mother, Linda, and threatens to get the police involved. The next day, Rashonda vanishes.

• 28:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 28:18Karen Kilgariff?

  So the police learn that John was alone with Rashonda. Rashonda the day she vanished, which was frightening, knowing how desperately Rashonda tried to avoid ever being alone with him. But her mom was at work, her brother was out of town visiting their father, John was supposed to be fixing a snowplow at his job. He'll later tell police that he'd taken the day off because he was waiting for parts to come in. But according to Noel Crombie's reporting from the Oregonian, that made no sense to his supervisors because John had a lot of other work he could have been doing that day.

• 28:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 28:51Karen Kilgariff?

  John claims that he invited Rashonda out into the woods to take pictures of deer.

• 28:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:55Karen Kilgariff?

  This is a claim that baffles everyone in the family because he's never shown an interest in wildlife photography. According to him, Rashonda turned down his offer and stayed behind at the house. And when he returned later that day after going to take pictures of deer by himself, she was gone. Of course, there's a ton of immediate suspicion around John. And while under interrogation, the mask begins to slip. He offers up a bizarre theory about a stranger coming to the door and abducting Rashonda, saying almost casually, quote, "Eighty-seven pounds is nothing for somebody to carry. You hit them over the head and they have no fight."

• 29:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. How fucking chilling.

• 29:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, to be in that interrogation room and hear that.

• 29:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And just knowing, it's like, that's the thing that I think is amazing because psychopaths work very hard to be smart.

• 29:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 29:43Karen Kilgariff?

  But they always think they're the smartest people in the room. And it's that, when you watch, you know, any true crime show, you see what bad liars they are.

• 29:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Not even bad liars, like, they think too that, like, this, the person they're telling this thing that, you know, they think is totally normal too, but like, to hear that.

• 29:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, that-

• 29:59Georgia Hardstark?

  If you're not a psychopath, hearing that is fucking chilling.

• 30:02Karen Kilgariff?

  It's chilling. And then also, if you're not that person talking, like, and you, clearly, this is, you're saying one thing.

• 30:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:10Karen Kilgariff?

  But what's actually coming through is, oh, my God, you know how much she weighs.

• 30:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 30:15Karen Kilgariff?

  You picked her up, like-

• 30:16Georgia Hardstark?

  You know how to-

• 30:17Karen Kilgariff?

  You're giving yourself away and you don't realize it.

• 30:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Karen Kilgariff?

  The red flag of him knowing his stepdaughter's exact body weight is raised even higher when John tells investigators unprompted that on the night Rashonda disappeared, he and Linda had great sex.

• 30:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Ew.

• 30:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. As Noel Crombie reports, this is, quote, "significant because they almost never had sex." Ackroyd's low libido was the source of such open conflict that Linda's teenage son Byron knew of their troubles.

• 30:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 30:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Not healthy, not okay.

• 30:45Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 30:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Most disturbingly, though, John seems fixated on describing his stepdaughter's body in sexualized terms. To the fucking police.

• 30:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude, he's so... yeah.

• 30:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Can't control it.

• 30:58Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 30:59Karen Kilgariff?

  He even tells officers her exact bra size at one point.

• 31:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god.

• 31:03Karen Kilgariff?

  And when he's eventually shown a pair of pants that police find in the woods and believe are Rashonda's, he becomes sexually aroused in front of them.

• 31:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Are you fucking kidding me?

• 31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, just a complete animal.

• 31:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, this, that's the most... I, wow, okay.

• 31:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:20Georgia Hardstark?

  God, I never heard this.

• 31:21Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, well, we're gonna take a little break, um, and everyone has to go...

• 31:24Georgia Hardstark?

  So we go wash our fucking hands?

• 31:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Bleach bath.

• 31:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 31:28Karen Kilgariff?

  But again, the evidence against John Ackroyd is entirely circumstantial, so they have to let him go.

• 31:34Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no.

• 31:35Karen Kilgariff?

  The police are doing everything they can to build the strongest case they can against him, not only in Rashonda's case, but in Kay's, which is now picking up steam after being cold for several years. And that's because investigators on Kay's case are going back through the case file and they are looking for new avenues to explore. And when they do that, they find the name Roger Dale Beck. Now, Roger was close friends with John Ackroyd, and he claimed to be with him the day that Kay was reported missing. And Roger's then-wife Pam provided their alibi for that morning, but police never looked into Roger's potential involvement in Kay's murder until now. So as they dig, police finally find the lead they've been waiting for.

• 32:18Karen Kilgariff?

  They learn from members of Roger's own family that on different occasions, he bragged about raping and killing a jogger back in the late 70s. Yeah.

• 32:26Georgia Hardstark?

  To who?

• 32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, for real.

• 32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Like... Even casually having beers with a friend or an acquaintance and them fucking like, what? Oh, my God. Like, this is psychotic.

• 32:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, and it's also like, can we get a little perspective here where it's like, everything that people called political correctness in like the 90s was trying to correct shit like this, where it's like, hey, if your bro brags about raping and killing someone.

• 32:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking around.

• 32:53Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. Make a phone call.

• 32:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Pick up that phone.

• 32:55Georgia Hardstark?

  No, he likes to brag about it. He makes up stories. He's still my very best friend. Like, what the fuck?

• 33:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Insane. So, when investigators tried to reconfirm Roger and John's alibi for the day Kay went missing, Roger's now ex-wife Pam completely falls apart and tells them she lied. Both men had actually come home covered in blood on Christmas Eve, 1978. Roger made her burn his clothes, destroy his brand-new boots, and threatened her into covering for him and John.

• 33:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sure he was terrifying. Like, the terror of that and then what are you gonna do, stand up?

• 33:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. He'll know it was you.

• 33:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 33:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, they just, ugh. So now it's May 1992. This is two years after Rashonda goes missing. She still hasn't been found, but investigators working Kay Turner's disappearance have managed to put together a really strong case, and there is a sense that John Ackroyd could be charged at any moment. But before the authorities can close in, two more young women from the same area in Oregon go missing. They are 17-year-old Melissa Sanders from Sweet Home, Oregon, and 19-year-old Sheila Swanson of Lebanon. So Melissa and Sheila disappeared during a family camping trip with the Sanders family to the Oregon coast town of Newport.

• 34:11Georgia Hardstark?

  They were together.

• 34:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. And the family was there, too. The girls share a tent that night, but early the next morning, when Melissa's family wakes up, they find both girls are gone. At first, their families think they hitchhiked home because Melissa and Sheila did sometimes spend days away from their families. They're, you know, in their late teens.

• 34:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And they'd actually even called their respective boyfriends to tell them they were going to leave the family camping trip. But when days pass with no sign of either of them... They're reported missing. Weeks later, in June of 1992, John Arthur Ackroyd is finally arrested for the murder of Kay Turner. Roger Dale Beck, his presumed accomplice in Kay's murder, is also arrested. This is 14 years after Kay went missing from Camp Sherman back in 1978 and 15 years since John's first known act of sexual violence against women, which was when Marlene was sexually assaulted in 77.

• 35:05Georgia Hardstark?

  God, imagine like being their families, or Marlene in this case, and waiting that long to even have movement in your car. Like, I just...

• 35:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, waiting that long, knowing that this monster is just walking around, which is such a cliche, but when you think about the fact of it, where it's like...

• 35:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's not like, it's not like, we don't know who it is, we haven't found, you know, a suspect yet. It's like, it is clearly to everyone, this fucking person.

• 35:32Karen Kilgariff?

  It's this person and his fucking friend.

• 35:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 35:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, it's horrifying. So, so, right out of the gate, what police wonder that if John knew he was about to get arrested and decided to kill more women while he still had the chance.

• 35:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 35:47Karen Kilgariff?

  But when he's pressed about Melissa and Sheila's disappearances, he doesn't admit anything. Several months later, in October of 1992, hunters find Melissa and Sheila's bodies in the woods outside Eddieville, Oregon, off Highway 20, about 20 miles from the campsite in Newport where the girls were. At the scene, police discover a rivet, which is something a mechanic might have, but they don't have much else to go on. Eventually, Melissa and Sheila's case goes cold. So, the year after John's arrest in 1993, he's tried for the murder of Kay Turner. The case against him is largely circumstantial, but prosecutors lean into a few key pieces of evidence: Kay's Timex watch, her clothes, and her skeletal remains.

• 36:30Karen Kilgariff?

  So, the watch is important because it stopped ticking the morning she disappeared, and it's presumed it stopped working at the time of the attack. It was broken. This gives police a pretty strong sense of the exact time she was killed, which that timeframe dovetails with when John told police he had spoken with her. He told them that.

• 36:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Didn't he find her body, too? Like...

• 36:51Karen Kilgariff?

  He claims to have, yeah. On top of that, forensic testing shows that Kay's clothes had been cut off, which calls back to the MO of Marlene Gabrielson's assault.

• 37:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Which they didn't fucking believe happened.

• 37:05Karen Kilgariff?

  So much suffering with that kind, just because of an ego move like that.

• 37:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally, but don't worry, it's just women who are suffering.

• 37:11Karen Kilgariff?

  They just, yeah, that's right. So prosecutors also have John's own words, which are damning in and of themselves. Because John did tell police he found Kay's body two months after she was killed. He thought she looked like she'd been slashed and shot. And the prosecution hammers home that he could not have known these things, given how badly the body had been decomposed, unless he was the man that killed her. The jury deliberates for four hours and comes back and convicts John Ackroyd on two counts of aggravated murder and three counts of murder. His accomplice, Roger Dale Beck, is also convicted. Again, this is one conviction when John Ackroyd is suspected of many crimes against women. Still, it's a huge victory for the investigators who worked to get him off the streets.

• 37:55Karen Kilgariff?

  One of those investigators is a man named Bill Hanlon, who championed Kay's case and is arguably the man who secured John Ackroyd's conviction. And he will later tell the Oregonian, quote, "It saved women's lives. If he had stayed out, if he had never been convicted, he and maybe Beck would have done more crimes and killed more women for sure. He managed to get through that whole thing without ever getting caught, not because he was all that smart, but because he slipped through," end quote. Here's my edit to that line, but because the police didn't do their jobs. Fast forward to 2010. At this point, John has served nearly two decades in prison and he's eligible for parole soon. I mean, 20 years.

• 38:39Karen Kilgariff?

  So because of that, detectives dig back into Rashonda's disappearance with renewed vigor. They're hoping they can create a strong enough case to bring charges and ensure John stays in prison for the rest of his life. But when they press him for information on Rashonda, he doesn't give anything up. Meanwhile, cold case investigators are also looking at the 1992 double murder of Melissa Sanders and Sheila Swanson. And in 2012, they piece together information that had inexplicably gone overlooked in the 90s, probably because of sloppy police work. They learn that John Ackroyd was a regular at a 24-hour restaurant called Sherry's, which was frequented by local teens. And he had earned the nickname "The Perv" because of how creepy he was

• 39:24Karen Kilgariff?

  about all those teenage patrons of Sherry's restaurant. Among those patrons were Melissa and Sheila, who John had been seen interacting with at the restaurant. So witnesses come forward and tell police that they saw two teens hitchhiking and entering a state truck that matched the description of John's work vehicle.

• 39:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 39:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And the rivet found near the scene is determined to match the kind commonly carried by the highway workers. Most damningly, one of John's coworkers will later report seeing John covered in blood around the exact time the girls go missing. At first, his coworker dismissed it because John said he hit a deer with his truck and got bloody clearing out the remains. So the whole incident goes unreported. But John never admits to any involvement in Melissa and Sheila's deaths. And because of that, there's still a lot we don't know about what happened to them. But the theory is that after talking with them at Sherry's, John knew the girls were camping at the coast that weekend and probably lied and say he'd be in the area if they wanted to get a ride home from him.

• 40:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 40:25Karen Kilgariff?

  They could just let him know. And clearly, they took him up on that offer. As investigators continue working Melissa and Sheila's case, there's movement in Rashonda's case. In 2013, 23 years after she was last seen alive, John Agroyd pleads no contest to Rashonda Pickles' murder. This means that he neither admits nor denies having anything to do with her death. And in exchange for this no contest plea, which effectively closes Rashonda's case, he agrees to never pursue being paroled.

• 40:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. Like a literal deal with the devil.

• 40:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. The plea is sealed for a long time, so we still don't know the details on why he does this, but it means he'll live the rest of his life behind bars.

• 41:06Georgia Hardstark?

  It just feels so like this little girl was not important enough to pursue justice. It's like, let's use this as a throwaway bargaining chip. But unfortunately, it's the best possible.

• 41:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, yeah.

• 41:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Because everything's been so fucked, it's the best possible, you know, resolution.

• 41:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. And it's not, it's a bargaining chip, but it's not a throwaway because it actually works.

• 41:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 41:30Karen Kilgariff?

  So there is that. But yes, the idea that he is not in some way forced to tell them.

• 41:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Where the, where her body is.

• 41:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Admit it.

• 41:39Georgia Hardstark?

  What he did to her.

• 41:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. The answers for both Melissa and Sheila. Just don't have to be given.

• 41:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And they've just been completely discarded by society.

• 41:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 41:47Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just horrifying.

• 41:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It feels like that whole metric needs to be readjusted to not like, what do we do just to keep them behind bars? Cause like, we have to do whatever it takes. And it's like, no, just do whatever it takes to actually get the information out of him. Just a few years later, in December 2016, John Arthur Ackroyd dies in prison at age 67, taking many secrets, you know, presumably, including the location of his own stepdaughter's body to the grave. So today, investigators suspect that John Arthur Ackroyd might be behind other unsolved cases in Oregon, many of which involve remains found near Highway 20.

• 42:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 42:28Karen Kilgariff?

  This includes the 1976 cold case involving a victim found near the highway who was only known at the time as Swamp Mountain Jane Doe for decades, cause where she was found. Just days before this recording in September of 2025, police have announced genetic genealogy has now identified this person as Marion McHorder.

• 42:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 42:50Karen Kilgariff?

  So they just figured out who this Jane Doe was.

• 42:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God, chills.

• 42:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, yeah. So for the families of his victims, the wounds will never heal. Rashonda Pickles' beloved brother Byron never stopped fighting for justice for his little sister. He keeps her memory alive by telling his children about Aunt Channy, which was her nickname, and he has a tattoo of her on his arm.

• 43:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Byron.

• 43:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. Sheila's brother Bart Swanson has also been her biggest advocate over the years, helping to keep interest in her case alive. And he tells the Oregonian, maybe sometimes visits the location where her body was found, saying, quote, "I go up there to, you know, pretty much remind myself that I still haven't let it go, and to let her know that I haven't let it go." Marlene Gabrielson has had to live with the trauma of being sexually assaulted and not being believed by the people who are supposed to fight for her after her attack. She tells The Oregonian, quote, "I figured it was because I was nothing. I wasn't ever going to amount to anything. I was brown and I was ugly. So you know, you're not going to amount to anything. You don't think you are. I think that's why I cowered so much

• 43:57Karen Kilgariff?

  back then. My first thought when I read that message," and she means from Noelle Crombie's, the reporter that reached out to her, "was, why would she care? Because that's the whole mindset that I've had about this thing from the gate. But that's what made me come, because there was somebody who actually cared. This makes me feel really good, because there's a reason I am here, and I guess I am not that ugly, and I'm not worthless. I'm Marlene K. Gabrielson. I'm Inupiat. I'm a strong woman."

• 44:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my fucking god.

• 44:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's the story of the investigation into John Arthur Ackroyd and those cases linked to Highway 20.

• 44:36Georgia Hardstark?

  It's these, when everyone is just in the media, like, why do women love true crime so much? It's so like, what's wrong with you that you're interested? And it's like, because this is how little we have mattered for so fucking long. If you think it's that different now, then you're not paying attention.

• 44:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Then, then, please log on to any website and check out what our bodily autonomy status is.

• 45:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 45:04Karen Kilgariff?

  But also-

• 45:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, we're interested because we care. Can you imagine caring that much?

• 45:07Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, we're interested because it's about us. And especially, like in Marlene's case, the more marginalized you are-

• 45:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 45:15Karen Kilgariff?

  -the more you're affected and the less people help you. So, we as white women care and get upset-

• 45:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 45:21Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's like, but as you go and you're more marginalized and you're less represented and you're less empowered, people care less and less.

• 45:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 45:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Until people literally are like, oh, you came here to report a rape and we're going to fucking polygraph you-

• 45:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 45:35Karen Kilgariff?

  -your throwaway.

• 45:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Bullshit.

• 45:37Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, we have to care 10 times as much because we're cared about as women 10 times less. And also, it's like, guess what? Women are 50% of the fucking population, if not 51. So our caring is like, everybody can just stop asking that question. You just accept the fact that women are concerned and care, and it's about themselves as much as it's about other women, because we have to for each other. That's the idea.

• 46:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. We're the targets.

• 46:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. I don't want to do my story now because it is so different from that. Well. Great job.

• 46:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you. What do you mean? This is what we do. Have you seen that big lit up, lit up number? Come on.

• 46:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Balloon.

• 46:19Karen Kilgariff?

  We got balloons, for God's sake.

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• 46:52Georgia Hardstark?

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• 46:54Karen Kilgariff?

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• 46:57Georgia Hardstark?

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• 47:01Karen Kilgariff?

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• 47:10Georgia Hardstark?

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• 47:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less. I mean, of course, it's always great to have delicious and very healthy groceries delivered to your house, which they can do. But I love the fact that Hungry Root will also just make you dinner so you can have it sitting there waiting. They make a classic chicken, corn, and Mexican rice bowl, and they have all kinds of variations on those themes. So that's one that I love to reach for. And all these options so you're getting really healthy meals.

• 47:47Georgia Hardstark?

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• 47:52Karen Kilgariff?

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• 47:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's hungryroot.com/mfm, code MFM to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Goodbye.

• 48:04Karen Kilgariff?

  We've all had moments where dealing with healthcare or insurance feels completely overwhelming.

• 48:08Georgia Hardstark?

  You're sick, worried about someone you love, trying to understand what comes next, and suddenly you're spending hours on hold, filling out paperwork and trying to figure out who to call.

• 48:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows patients spend the equivalent of an eight-hour workday every month coordinating their own care.

• 48:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Nobody hands you a roadmap when you're dealing with a diagnosis or ongoing health issues.

• 48:27Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why there's Solace Health.

• 48:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Solace provides personal healthcare advocates who average 16 years of healthcare experience and can help you get answers fast.

• 48:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Think of them as someone in your corner who understands the healthcare system and can handle the logistics while you focus on your health.

• 48:41Georgia Hardstark?

  They can help with appointments, insurance denials, medical bills, treatment options, and understanding doctor recommendations.

• 48:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Research shows 92% of patients report a positive impact on their care from working with an advocate.

• 48:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Advocacy improves outcomes, and Solace advocates are covered by insurance nationwide.

• 48:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Eligibility varies by insurance plan.

• 48:59Georgia Hardstark?

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• 49:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to solacehealth.com/murder to see if you qualify.

• 49:07Georgia Hardstark?

  It takes about two minutes, and it's covered by insurance.

• 49:10Karen Kilgariff?

  That's S-O-L-A-C-E health.com/murder. Goodbye. You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 49:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 49:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, powered by pure Epsom salt and natural Dead Sea salt, it's designed to help you relax and get in the right state of mind for a good night's rest.

• 49:30Georgia Hardstark?

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• 49:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Dr. Teal's magnesium spray comes in a lightweight, fast-drying formula.

• 49:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Just shake it up and generously spritz onto the soles of your feet and massage until absorbed.

• 49:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of blown away the first time I used this spray because I do have problems sleeping. And when there's something this simple, you just sprayed on your feet, and suddenly you're asleep, and the next morning you're like, wait, what happened? Did my problem just get solved? Like, it actually is that easy.

• 50:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And your stinky feet now smell like lavender. Like, what more do you want?

• 50:08Karen Kilgariff?

  How dare you call my feet stinky?

• 50:10Georgia Hardstark?

  For wellness, you can feel find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle.

• 50:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 50:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 50:19Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, changing it up is what we're all about.

• 50:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, great job.

• 50:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 50:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That was an incredible story. I'd never heard before and I'm shocked and horrified.

• 50:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's so horrifying. I really liked, you know, our producer Molly suggested like just doing straight up true crime.

• 50:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, for a 500.

• 50:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and just, you know, like a classic and Maren did an amazing job.

• 50:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that was incredible.

• 50:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 50:42Georgia Hardstark?

  All right, well, mine is not, well, mine is true crime, really.

• 50:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah?

• 50:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you know what it is? Because we're gonna start in Sherman Oaks or Beverly Hills, depending on who's fucking arguing about zip codes.

• 50:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Do people in Sherman Oaks think they in any way live in Beverly Hills?

• 51:00Georgia Hardstark?

  No, but there's like a weird zip code dispute going on that we're not getting into.

• 51:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna get into it myself.

• 51:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, we're in Sherman Oaks, technically, at 5:00 a.m. on the morning of December 20th, 2008. Remember 2008?

• 51:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I do. A very innocent time.

• 51:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, very stupid. A security guard in the gated community of the Mulholland Estates has just realized that something is amiss at one of the mansions in the neighborhood. When the guard gets to the front door, he sees that it's opened. No one appears to be in the house, but he can tell the house has been ransacked. He calls the police and once they arrive, it becomes clear that burglars have taken a whopping $2 million worth of jewelry and watches from this estate.

• 51:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 51:46Georgia Hardstark?

  In today's money, that $2 million would be...

• 51:50Karen Kilgariff?

  You said it was 2008?

• 51:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:52Karen Kilgariff?

  So that's 20, a little less than 20 years ago?

• 51:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Two mil?

• 51:58Georgia Hardstark?

  In today's money...

• 51:59Karen Kilgariff?

  3.5?

• 51:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Three, but great job.

• 52:01Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I'm getting closer.

• 52:02Georgia Hardstark?

  That was so close. Yeah, that was great. Police look at surveillance footage, which shows what appears to be a man in a sweatshirt, you know, who's the burglar, and they say the person seems to know the house well. What police do not know yet is that this burglar is not a professional who's been casing the joint, and also, the mansion doesn't belong to just any old person. It's Paris Hilton's home.

• 52:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 52:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's been hit three times before by this same group of burglars.

• 52:31Karen Kilgariff?

  The Bling Ring.

• 52:32Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, Karen. That's why I was like, I can't do this now. It's literally called The Bling Ring.

• 52:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. No, this is what we like. It's a, we do hot and cold, yin and yang, back and forth.

• 52:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, yes.

• 52:44Karen Kilgariff?

  The full scope of life.

• 52:45Georgia Hardstark?

  We're a fucking paradox. This group, mostly teenagers, would go on to burglarize their homes of celebrities for close to a year before finally being caught. This is a story about obsession with celebrity and status, but maybe also a story about how our teenage selves aren't necessarily the people we are forever. But our mistakes sure are. This is the story of The Bling Ring.

• 53:09Karen Kilgariff?

  The Bling Ring.

• 53:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you ever watch the documentary about it?

• 53:12Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I just watched the movie movie.

• 53:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, got it. Well, the main sources for the story is a Vanity Fair article that was written by a woman named Nancy Jo Sales called The Suspects Were Lewbatons. And that was the basis for the Sofia Coppola movie, The Bling Ring. And there's also a 2023 HBO documentary called The Ringleader. And then another documentary that I watched called The Real Bling Ring: Hollywood Heist. And then also a short-lived e-reality show called Pretty Wild. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.

• 53:42Karen Kilgariff?

  This movie, when I saw it, it's like that kind of thing where you, I don't like thinking about other people's families sometimes because I'm like, it's just very Irish Catholic to me, but I'm like, they're not doing it right. It's not how you're supposed to do it.

• 53:54Georgia Hardstark?

  So you think like the teenagers were raised wrong or what?

• 53:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Leslie Mann plays this mom and she just.

• 53:59Georgia Hardstark?

  She's so amazing. Like, you don't even have to say more about what Leslie Mann played because I fucking know who she, you know what I mean?

• 54:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. But there was a part where she's like, she doesn't care if the girls go to school. She just wants them to work on their like affirmation manifestation boards.

• 54:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I know the mother you're literally talking about. I know who you're talking about. And I watched a little bit of like the reality stuff and I felt the same way about her.

• 54:21Karen Kilgariff?

  You're just like, get this stomach ache of like.

• 54:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 54:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Not, it's either they don't have a chance in the world or the world doesn't have a chance against people like this.

• 54:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Yeah, it very much made me go, wow, I'm so glad I don't have teenage daughters. Like, I just, ah, yeah. I love that Leslie Mann playing the mom. Okay.

• 54:38Karen Kilgariff?

  She's really good.

• 54:39Georgia Hardstark?

  She's so good. Okay. To understand The Bling Ring, we really have to go back to the celebrity media landscape of the early 2000s because it is so fucking different than it is now. And thank God, there's like kind of a reckoning happening, but it was so trashy and so. Awful and so insidious and so, you know, damaging to our psyche back then.

• 55:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 55:01Georgia Hardstark?

  For sure.

• 55:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrifying.

• 55:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? So like, at this time in the early 2000s, Us Magazine goes from being a monthly industry-focused magazine to being a weekly magazine focusing squarely on celebrities. So actually, Sofia Coppola cites this as the inciting incident that fomented the culture that resulted in the robberies because of this magazine.

• 55:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That makes sense.

• 55:23Georgia Hardstark?

  The magazine and most of the ones that quickly copied it was full of paparazzi photos of celebrities. Some of them actual movie stars, some of them reality stars, some people whose names you know, but you're not even sure why. Like, this is when Paris Hilton became famous for just being Paris Hilton and which, you know, launched just so many celebrities who were just...

• 55:45Karen Kilgariff?

  They didn't really do any... It wasn't like they were talents. It wasn't like, oh, my god, what a great actor. Now I want to see them at the gas station.

• 55:51Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 55:52Karen Kilgariff?

  It was just fame.

• 55:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Which also meant to a lot of younger people that they could possibly do that as well.

• 55:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 55:58Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean? Like, there was an opportunity just to be famous for being famous.

• 56:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that was simultaneous with like, American Idol kind of TV shows where literally it was just like, you can.

• 56:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:08Karen Kilgariff?

  You can go stand in line out in front of CBS and see if you can.

• 56:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 56:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I remember getting a job in the late 90s, writing those... They used to do like, basically Fashion Police. I think it was called Fashion Police. And it was just like, they would show a picture of a celebrity with a fucked up outfit on, and then there was all these commentators.

• 56:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I remember, just tearing them apart.

• 56:29Karen Kilgariff?

  And I did it. I did it like, for three different times, I think I did it.

• 56:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And you would write like, each celebrity picture they'd give you, you had to write like, five jokes, so they'd pick one from each.

• 56:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I remember this.

• 56:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And the only place you could go was mean and meaner and meaner. And I remember on the third one, I went, what the fuck am I doing? And then I just didn't turn it in, and I never got asked to do it again. Where I was like, this is not like, yes, it's good to have $150, but like, what the fuck is this for?

• 57:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, that's exactly it, because I was also going to say they did things like, who wore it better?

• 57:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 57:04Georgia Hardstark?

  They'd show a photo of two women always wearing the same outfit and then tear one of them apart and say the other one looked amazing.

• 57:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 57:12Georgia Hardstark?

  You couldn't choose both being like, looking great.

• 57:15Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 57:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Who wore it better? There was stars without makeup and then there was best and worst beach bodies.

• 57:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 57:22Georgia Hardstark?

  It was so toxic.

• 57:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 57:24Georgia Hardstark?

  It was just, it just, you know, created a generation of women with eating disorders, myself included.

• 57:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Entirely. And it's the launching pad for the Facebook's hot or not.

• 57:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 57:36Karen Kilgariff?

  World where women absolutely were primed to be like, oh, wait, I guess I either, I need to figure out if I'm hot or not and then try to get hot so that I'm not a not.

• 57:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Otherwise I don't have worth at all.

• 57:48Karen Kilgariff?

  It was everything.

• 57:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. And so, yeah, there's this frothing paparazzi culture who is just making so much money off of this. That's what it was like. And it's in this environment in 2006 that a girl named Rachel Lee and Nick Prugo first find each other as sophomores at Indian Hills High School, which caters to kids who have struggled in more traditional schools in Calabasas.

• 58:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Rich, juvie kids.

• 58:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Rich kids who can't, yeah. I mean, essentially, I went to one of those schools in Irvine, you know what I mean? Which like, it was called SELF and it was the like, you hate school and you're not doing well and your family doesn't force you to go to school. So this is what you have to do now to like, get to graduate.

• 58:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, so basically.

• 58:31Georgia Hardstark?

  It was like the alternate school where PE was ping pong. So I'm pretty good at ping pong now. I only went there for like, a semester and went back to regular school because I was just like, I gotta, this, I have to do something with my life.

• 58:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 58:42Georgia Hardstark?

  But it was, yeah, it was all the kids, basically it was any kid in this affluent neighborhood that had broken families.

• 58:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 58:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Like really, that's all we had in common and became friends is because none of us had supervision. We were neglected. We didn't have the money that everyone else had. And so we didn't really give a shit about school.

• 59:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 59:02Georgia Hardstark?

  And we were fucking teased there. We were made fun of there. We were like, I didn't want to go there. I was out, I was a total outcast.

• 59:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 59:09Georgia Hardstark?

  So why would I go? Instead you go to SELF where people are actually nice to you.

• 59:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And you get to play some ping pong.

• 59:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking hardcore ping pong. Yeah. So I get it. And also, I became, eventually, when I was like in my early twenties, I was a lunch lady in the valley at one of these schools myself for elementary through high school. And these were the sweetest, most wonderful kids who couldn't hack it in the LAUSD school system in the valley. And I'm telling you, more than half of them were living in group homes. So it wasn't, these were not bad kids.

• 59:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 59:41Georgia Hardstark?

  They just didn't have the resources that everyone else had.

• 59:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, the support. And also, it's weird because there's some kids who have nothing but resources.

• 59:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 59:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's not a good thing.

• 59:51Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 59:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 59:52Georgia Hardstark?

  It's also where I met Uncrustables. Because the kids loved them. And I was like, I'm gonna try this.

• 59:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 59:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Lived off of them. Okay, so enough about me and Uncrustables. So this girl, Rachel Lee and Nick Prugo, they meet each other at this school. And they both have issues getting along with their families. Rachel had been kicked out of Calabasas High School for stealing something from another girl. And Nick was kicked out of Calabasas High School as well for excessive absences, which is like, the fact that you're just like punished for that, instead of like, what's going on in his life? That this, that he's not coming to school.

• 1:00:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:00:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Is so horrifying to me.

• 1:00:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's like, so basically, there's clearly a lack of support.

• 1:00:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:00:34Karen Kilgariff?

  And.

• 1:00:34Georgia Hardstark?

  You're a child, and you're being held responsible for the fact that you.

• 1:00:37Karen Kilgariff?

  That no one will get you to school on time.

• 1:00:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Follow through. Yeah, like, maybe you have some, you know, and also, he had been a troubled kid. He had been diagnosed with ADHD. So he probably wasn't taken care of the way he needed to be.

• 1:00:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Georgia Hardstark?

  You know? So I just, these kids, I feel for them. So Nick and Rachel, they feel like outsiders, and then they meet each other and just fall immediately in friendship love. Nick is gay during a time when the average high schooler hears gay slurs multiple times a day. It was very casual then. Rachel's Korean and is always felt out of place in her majority white town. And it's at a time when the beauty standard is blindingly white, and being beautiful is seen as a teenager's highest duty. So it's really depressing for them. They're both very into fashion and celebrities and the very luxury brand focused aesthetic of the era. You remember J.C. Couture, you had a whole wardrobe full of it.

• 1:01:32Karen Kilgariff?

  My whole ass was covered in that brand. But also, I think there's, you know, especially in the valley.

• 1:01:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, that's like the valley in Beverly Hills.

• 1:01:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:01:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's the center of like materialistic, kind of like, here's what anybody cares about. Like, what kind of car do you drive?

• 1:01:47Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's aspirational. You could easily become part of that world if you play your cards right.

• 1:01:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:52Georgia Hardstark?

  You know? As Rachel will put it many years later, quote, "I felt this insatiable energy to have as much as I could have, but that was kind of the energy back then," end quote. And so Rachel and Nick quickly form a deep, all-consuming friendship. Remember those fucking friendships from high school that were so amazing? They're always talking or texting or I Am-ing each other, and they just find this like kindred spirit in each other. So sometime in 2007, Nick and Rachel start burglarizing homes.

• 1:02:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I just, I don't know why. Like, I feel for them, and I feel like, by the grace of God, there goes moi, you know? Not burglarizing, just doing really fucking stupid shit.

• 1:02:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Stupid shit.

• 1:02:33Georgia Hardstark?

  In a time when stupid shit sticks to you.

• 1:02:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Permanent record stuff.

• 1:02:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. Early 90s, you can't track my shit.

• 1:02:38Karen Kilgariff?

  But, hold on, how did they get to that?

• 1:02:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:02:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Because that's insane.

• 1:02:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Here's what happened. It's kind of brilliant. They find out that a classmate is going to be out of town with their family. It's a rich as fuck family, and so they go there when they know no one's gonna be home. And they break in. At this classmate's house, they find a box with thousands of dollars of cash in it. It's originally reported as $8,000, but it gets bandied about. Maybe it was over $20,000. In today's money, it could have been worth about $40,000. But they find it and they take it and they go on a shopping spree on Rodeo Drive with it. And I fucking get this thing of like, how come everyone, I, because I used to shoplift when I was a kid. I will say that right now. You can't fucking come get me. Or come fucking get me if you want, but I was underage. I used to shoplift, and it was this...

• 1:03:28Georgia Hardstark?

  This feeling of like, I deserve this. Everyone else in my affluent community has everything they want. I get made fun of for not, I fucking deserve this.

• 1:03:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:03:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Which clearly isn't true, but I was a child. So that's, it made absolute sense to me that like.

• 1:03:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It'll solve the problem.

• 1:03:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like, this is how I get mine, too. So I get that. I wrote about it in our book. So they do that hit, and then they take up this hobby that they call checking cars. And so they basically just walk by luxury cars in their neighborhood and see if the doors are unlocked. Lock your fucking doors, right? Like, as we always say. When they find one that is open, they plunder it for cash and credit cards and then go on more shopping trips with this. By their senior year of high school, the fall of 2008, they hatch a plan to start robbing celebrities' houses and decide they're going to start with Paris Hilton.

• 1:04:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Why not?

• 1:04:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. It's so easy for them to do this. They find a subscription-based website that lists celebrity home addresses on it. And then they go to Google Earth to kind of map out the house, like see routes to get into the house. And then they go on social media and like TMZ and see the celebrity themselves saying, "I'm in Ibiza, I'm in New York filming this thing, I'm gonna be out tonight at this fucking bar." And so they just know when the celebrity's gonna be out of town. They know where they live, they know how to get in.

• 1:04:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they can track it all. Thank you, S Magazine.

• 1:04:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's creepily easy for them to do this.

• 1:04:54Karen Kilgariff?

  The innocent days of the early internet.

• 1:04:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. So they study TMZ and Paris Hilton's social media and know she's gonna be out of town for a few days in October. They look at her gated community on Google Earth and they find a hill in the back of the house where they think they can get onto the property without being noticed. And it works. When they approach the front door of Paris's 8,000-square-foot Mediterranean-style mansion, they find a key under the mat. That's how safe she feels in her community.

• 1:05:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, she doesn't have a house sitter?

• 1:05:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, I know.

• 1:05:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Just a richie-rich person that doesn't just have someone there?

• 1:05:31Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think they think about it then.

• 1:05:33Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess they didn't.

• 1:05:34Georgia Hardstark?

  They do now.

• 1:05:34Karen Kilgariff?

  They didn't have to.

• 1:05:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. When we go out of town at all for touring, my friend stays at our house. Not just because we have pets, but because I don't want to leave a home completely unattended. There's never not someone at my house.

• 1:05:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we get it, we get it. No one can rob you.

• 1:05:49Georgia Hardstark?

  They find a key under the mat and they let themselves in. On this first visit, they kind of just explore her house. They go into the nightclub room. Like, this is a very wealthy woman. Then they do, I think they do this brilliant, not brilliant, they do this very smart thing where they fish through all of her purses, because she has hundreds of beautiful purses. And she goes out all the time, and so there's just crumpled bills in every purse from all her nights out.

• 1:06:16Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really smart.

• 1:06:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Hundreds and hundreds and fifties, that they just, she just crams back in her purse, puts her purse back on, eventually she'll grab it again, and you know, like, she doesn't care that there are all these wadded up dollars.

• 1:06:27Karen Kilgariff?

  She is literally filthy rich.

• 1:06:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. So they take all of those, they say they take a lot of coke, like, they find, you know, baggies of coke in the purses, but we're, like, we don't, that's allegedly, we don't want Paris Hilton, who's the victim of this crime, we don't want to be, like, saying that she's a fucking cokehead. Seems like they were careful to make it not totally obvious that someone had been there, like, so she, I don't know if she knew at first.

• 1:06:50Karen Kilgariff?

  She has a nightclub room, she didn't notice.

• 1:06:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly, exactly. So they take little things, like a bottle of Grey Goose on the way out, that sort of thing. They return to Paris's house two more times that fall, and they also start bringing some of their other friends and associates into the scheme, which is a bad idea.

• 1:07:05Karen Kilgariff?

  The big mistake, yeah.

• 1:07:06Georgia Hardstark?

  It feels a little less like a scheme, though, and more like the way teens like to break into abandoned buildings, are just kind of trying their luck, in a way.

• 1:07:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And they're so unaware of the consequences that your stupid fucking actions as a teenager will bring.

• 1:07:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Especially when what's really taking up most of your attention is, like, can I get a Chanel purse?

• 1:07:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 1:07:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Can I get a label, fill in the blank, blank?

• 1:07:29Georgia Hardstark?

  And I'm not good enough unless I have those things.

• 1:07:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely. Part of this includes stealing many thousands of dollars' worth of clothing and jewelry for them to wear, like, they just want to dress the part. In the expanded group, there are some other kids from their school, some friends of friends, it kind of becomes this, like, unorganized group of people who are all doing this together. And there are a couple older adults, though. This includes a man named Roy Lopez Jr., whom one of the group knows from her job at a restaurant, and a man named Johnny Ajar, who goes by your favorite name, ever.

• 1:08:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Johnny?

• 1:08:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Dangerous.

• 1:08:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Johnny Dangerous. You had the first part right.

• 1:08:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, yeah.

• 1:08:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, because his name is Johnny.

• 1:08:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Johnny Dangerous.

• 1:08:12Karen Kilgariff?

  That is ridiculous.

• 1:08:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And what's Johnny Dangerous's deal?

• 1:08:15Georgia Hardstark?

  You're gonna be shocked to hear this.

• 1:08:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:08:17Georgia Hardstark?

  He's a Hollywood promoter.

• 1:08:18Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 1:08:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think anyone, everyone who doesn't live in LA knows, like, promoters, Hollywood nightclub promoters, especially back in the early 2000s and like late 90s, were just this like breed of dude.

• 1:08:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Toothpick dude.

• 1:08:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, they were like slimy, but they could probably get you into the club, for sure, especially if you were underage.

• 1:08:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Slimy but not unattractive?

• 1:08:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:08:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Kind of, there's a charisma there, but also...

• 1:08:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Because they're like businessmen.

• 1:08:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, they are.

• 1:08:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Or they're like marketing people.

• 1:08:46Karen Kilgariff?

  I told you about that. This is one of my favorite memories, and I'm gonna try to do it quickly.

• 1:08:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 1:08:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I was turning, remember the old DMV that used to be off of Vine, above, between Sunset and Hollywood? And there's like a DMV there?

• 1:08:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:08:59Karen Kilgariff?

  I'd always go there because there was rarely a line.

• 1:09:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Karen Kilgariff?

  So I was driving in that neighborhood, and I was taking a right-hand turn in my old car. Simultaneously, there was this dude taking a left, so we were, our cars were passing, and our, we were, our window, you know, we were passing each other, and he was super good-looking, but he was like shaved head.

• 1:09:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, very clean cut, like, sharp.

• 1:09:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, this guy was like super tan, and he had a v-neck silk shirt that was open, like, way open down here, and he had a big necklace, and he had like a big ring, he had a toothpick in his mouth, and I was just like, and I was just staring at him, because I was like, who is this guy? Like, as we're passing each other, and he just very slowly puts his arm out the window and points at me. So as we're passing, he just like does one of those as we go by.

• 1:09:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god, like acknowledging your existence.

• 1:09:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And I was like, I love the idea of like this, he looked like a nightclub owner, or a promoter.

• 1:09:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It's a totally different thing.

• 1:09:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And I'm like his nerdy comic girlfriend.

• 1:09:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, it was this idea of like how hilarious, but then he'd also like give me coke.

• 1:10:00Georgia Hardstark?

  He would absolutely give you coke, he would get you into Ladue, which is where the nightclub of the time, like, seriously. So Johnny Dangerous was a promoter for the Hollywood nightclub, Ladue. Remember Ladue? Ladux? Ladux?

• 1:10:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Ladue.

• 1:10:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Ladue.

• 1:10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  I remember it, but I don't know what it looked like.

• 1:10:13Georgia Hardstark?

  It was on the hills all the time. Like that's where they all went to or worked or whatever. So it was a big deal and he'd get these underage kids who are not famous people into Ladue. He was the promoter, the big Hollywood promoter.

• 1:10:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It feels like a lost, the cultures being lost.

• 1:10:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sure it's still there. We could go to Hollywood right now and meet four promoters within 20 minutes.

• 1:10:34Karen Kilgariff?

  And we'd be like, hey, and they'd be like, I can't see you. You're over 25.

• 1:10:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No, you're a mom.

• 1:10:40Karen Kilgariff?

  You're not invited.

• 1:10:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, there's no MILFs. Okay. So Roy, the other guy is actually the one captured on security footage in the December Paris Hilton burglary. And that ends up being the one to first be publicized. Johnny Dangerous mostly acts as a fence, like buying the stolen goods to sell them because the kids can't. Are they going to go into a pawn shop with Paris Hilton's fucking like heirloom family jewelry and sell it on the market? No.

• 1:11:06Karen Kilgariff?

  I just thought about Paris Hilton coming home from Ibiza or whatever it is and being like, hey, I put $8,000 in this purse.

• 1:11:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 1:11:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait a second. Did Nikki borrow this purse?

• 1:11:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And then Nick later says, sweet Nick, he says, quote, he gave us $5,000 for like 10 Rolexes, which I guess is a ripoff now that I think about it, end quote. How much is a Rolex worth?

• 1:11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  $50,000, aren't they?

• 1:11:32Georgia Hardstark?

  And so 10 Rolexes, these, like, that just shows how naive and young they are. He was like, here's $5,000 and they're like, oh my God.

• 1:11:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:11:40Georgia Hardstark?

  So incredible. Yeah, exactly. It's a bit muddy regarding like when each of the members of the bling ring get involved. It's very loose. It's clear that.

• 1:11:49Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no official history.

• 1:11:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you're not going to believe it. It's clear that the network expands quickly between Rachel and Nick's first burglary in October and the fourth one in December. Since Rachel and Nick didn't actually really even know the guy Roy, the one who was in the security footage. It's almost like.

• 1:12:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Some guy heard about it too.

• 1:12:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So it's not actually a group. And then the burglars continue over the course of the entire school year and into the summer with various members of this group, but always Rachel and Nick. So they kind of are the ringleaders, I guess you could say.

• 1:12:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Georgia Hardstark?

  In February of that year, Rachel and Nick robbed the home of Adrena Patridge, one of the stars of The Hills.

• 1:12:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Adrena Partridge.

• 1:12:27Georgia Hardstark?

  It says Patridge in everything I've read and I always thought it was Partridge.

• 1:12:31Karen Kilgariff?

  It is Partridge.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  I think it's Patridge.

• 1:12:33Karen Kilgariff?

  What was she on?

• 1:12:34Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hills.

• 1:12:34Speaker 04

  The Hills.

• 1:12:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Have eyes.

• 1:12:35Speaker 04

  Iconic TV show, The Hills.

• 1:12:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Heard of it? I did, I watched the shit out of it. Literally until I read this research by Ally, I would have said Partridge. And then I saw that, I saw it in the Vanity Fair article, it's spelled Patridge. By the way, I want to leave all of this in. And Audrina, if you're a murderino, we are so sorry.

• 1:12:55Speaker 04

  I wouldn't dare edit it out.

• 1:12:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you, Molly.

• 1:12:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's clearly gold.

• 1:12:59Georgia Hardstark?

  And she says, quote, "They took bags and bags of stuff. They took my great grandma's jewelry, my passport, my laptop, jeans made to fit my body to perfect shape," which like, can I get that done? I didn't know that was a thing you could do.

• 1:13:12Karen Kilgariff?

  No, you can't. The answer's no.

• 1:13:14Georgia Hardstark?

  God damn it. The estimated value of her stolen property was $43,000, but more than that, she is terrified from this and I think, I've never think fucking God had a break in, but I think the sense of security that you lose when that happens is just psychologically so fucked up, especially from a reality star. Like she's not, you know, a movie star that agreed to this life. I mean, she did because she's a reality star.

• 1:13:40Karen Kilgariff?

  But she was like in high school when she agreed to it.

• 1:13:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Is she the one that lived in that very glass boxy house that was up above Sunset, down by like Sunset Junction?

• 1:13:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't know, how do you know that?

• 1:13:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Because I remember, I spent a lot of time at the E-Channel.

• 1:13:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I know that boxy house, yes.

• 1:13:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And I remembered them, the video with the guy with the, like a hooded sweatshirt and people jumping over the fence.

• 1:13:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, totally.

• 1:14:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and it's like, that's when I realized like, oh, that's right, you're totally exposed if people know where you live.

• 1:14:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, exactly. Actually, and she shares the footage of this robbery right away with the police and media and it's pretty clear, you can see Nick and Rachel in it, but nothing comes of that until later, so. The group hits Rachel Bilson's house in May from the OC. They have a trend, right? Rachel Bilson's from the OC, right?

• 1:14:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so.

• 1:14:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm from literally the OC and I don't remember where I'm still from. Then in July, they hit Orlando Bloom's house, mostly because his girlfriend at the time is Miranda Kerr and she has really fucking good clothes. So they hit his house. That night, they allegedly steal $500,000 in Rolex watches, allegedly, which is probably two Rolex watches.

• 1:14:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:14:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Louis Vuitton luggage, artwork. I mean, it seems like they just have all the time in the world in these houses and they take advantage of it.

• 1:14:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And also all the choices in the world, because this is like, rich people like having too much money and collecting stuff.

• 1:15:00Georgia Hardstark?

  And not having security.

• 1:15:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:03Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 1:15:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Or a house sitter.

• 1:15:05Georgia Hardstark?

  A house sitter, security, a fucking dog, a rottweiler with knives taped to it, like anything.

• 1:15:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Plants that someone has to come in water twice a day, like something.

• 1:15:15Georgia Hardstark?

  The Orlando Bloom robbery is where 18-year-old Alexis Niers claims she comes into the story. And she's the daughter of the like, secret manifestation mother.

• 1:15:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:15:25Georgia Hardstark?

  So she claims this when she comes into the story. She says she's a drag along. And it's like, I don't know, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.

• 1:15:32Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, if there's a group of kids that are going around robbing celebrities' houses, you're gonna want to tell all the kids at school that you're out in front and you're the leader of the gang. And then, once you get caught, you're gonna be like, I barely even understood what was happening.

• 1:15:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 1:15:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And I do think, sorry, but I do think that I remember them trying to turn that story with the Adrena Partridge's break-in, because they were talking about how scared she was, where it's like, the times I've sat at my house in the middle of the night with the dogs barking, thinking someone is breaking into my house. And it is the fucking scariest thing. And of course, it was raccoons or whatever, but like, a horrible threat, a horrible thing to go to, even if you're not home. That means someone actually did it and it was there.

• 1:16:13Georgia Hardstark?

  The violation of someone walking through this place that's like your sanctuary that you created, especially when you're a famous person, to get away from all of that. And it's not safe and nothing's safe and they've taken your grandma's jewelry, like I totally.

• 1:16:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrible.

• 1:16:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Can't imagine.

• 1:16:29Karen Kilgariff?

  But then, yeah, it's cute when you know it's these teenagers that are being rebels.

• 1:16:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, well, she initially was like, I couldn't believe it when I saw the footage because I figured, like, I was also terrified that it was these, like, big scary men.

• 1:16:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It wasn't, but it was still confusing. Yeah, yeah. So Alexis, this 18 year old, had known Nick and Rachel from Indian Hills High School, but she had dropped out to pursue modeling. And she's, at the time, being homeschooled by her mother, Andrea Leslie Mann. Specifically Andrea says she is basing her curriculum around the movie, not the book, The Secret.

• 1:17:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04Georgia Hardstark?

  The family believes firmly in the law of attraction and frequently says, quote, "And so it is."

• 1:17:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 1:17:11Georgia Hardstark?

  That's their like, "Hey, I want to be famous. And so it is." Which is so culty. Isn't it culty?

• 1:17:17Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, it's so LA. It's so, and because sometimes it works. And it's like,

• 1:17:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Sometimes it works. And if you're delusional enough and

• 1:17:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Right, to believe that's why.

• 1:17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Petite and hot enough, I guess, or whatever.

• 1:17:28Georgia Hardstark?

  And then think you earned it because you did that and they didn't. And it's like, well, you should, yeah, it's just

• 1:17:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And so it is.

• 1:17:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Petite and hot enough. And you live in the, what are those apartments, the Oakwoods?

• 1:17:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:17:38Georgia Hardstark?

  And you're just like, all you want is to make it.

• 1:17:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Whatever that means.

• 1:17:43Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 1:17:43Georgia Hardstark?

  There's no negative in making it. That's the idea. It's like, there's no, like, you can't do anything bad if it results in you making it because it was worth it.

• 1:17:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, no matter what.

• 1:17:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it? Alexis's best friend is a 19 year old named Tess Taylor, and she lives in the house as well. Andrea treats her like another daughter. And then they're the ones who end up having that reality show, Pretty Wild, for a short time. The way it's presented on the reality show, Alexis and Taylor are very focused on becoming famous. And Andrea, the mother, is even more focused on this, Leslie Mann. And it appears that Alexis is raised in a family that prioritizes fame and proximity to fame over everything else.

• 1:18:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And we know this because it's all chronicled on Pretty Wild, which starts filming at the time because they are following Alexis and Tess's life as little Hell Racers in the Los Angeles club scene, like going to Ladue.

• 1:18:35Karen Kilgariff?

  They're looking for the new Paris Hilton and Nikki. No, that's her sister.

• 1:18:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Nicole Richie.

• 1:18:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Nicole Richie, yes.

• 1:18:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So it's about that at first, about their attempts at, you know, going to modeling additions and becoming famous. But it doesn't turn into that. But back to the summer of the summer. All the kids in the Bling Ring are pretty blatant with their spoils. They are photographed in celebrities' clothes on their social media with like fucking Rolexes and shit.

• 1:19:01Karen Kilgariff?

  So stupid.

• 1:19:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, I know. They brag pretty openly about it among their peers. One day, Rachel and Nick and possibly others spread out a blanket on Venice Beach and start selling stolen goods from celebrities' houses.

• 1:19:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys, cry for help.

• 1:19:15Georgia Hardstark?

  They are teenagers doing dumbass teenage shit, which is why I'm so glad I'll never have a teenage child. Just a nephew that I can be like the cool aunt to.

• 1:19:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:19:25Georgia Hardstark?

  So then at the end of July, TMZ re-ups the security footage from the burglary back in February at Adrena P.'s house. For some reason, she had shared it back when it happened, but for some reason now people are more interested in it. And Nick and Rachel are pretty identifiable in it. It's footage you've seen, like they really barely try to cover their faces at all. They have like hoodies on and that's kind of it. So friends are calling them about it. Rachel decides to move in with her father, who's an accountant and professional gambler who lives in Vegas to have like a low profile. But she cannot resist the pull to do that one last job.

• 1:19:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 1:20:00Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so classic, like you're done. You're in a different state. Go fucking.

• 1:20:04Karen Kilgariff?

  You got out, stay out.

• 1:20:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, go be a, what's it called?

• 1:20:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Dealer?

• 1:20:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, not a drug dealer. If you couldn't, if you're not watching this on YouTube, I was doing cards, not drugs.

• 1:20:13Karen Kilgariff?

  She was doing poker dealer gestures.

• 1:20:15Georgia Hardstark?

  One night in August, one of the members of the ring, we're not sure who, calls Rachel and says, quote, "Let's go steal," end quote. The intended target is Lindsay Lohan, who pretty much is the white whale for any fashion-loving teenage burglar in the mid 2000s. Like, she's the famousest of the famousest. And the party, the most like big party girl, too.

• 1:20:34Karen Kilgariff?

  She's a big party girl. Also, she, I think I read, and this is alleged, so don't hold against me, but there was a lot of stories about her taking clothing, really expensive clothing.

• 1:20:45Georgia Hardstark?

  From sets?

• 1:20:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, and from places where she, I think she had probably this, she was famous and had been since she was a child.

• 1:20:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And she kind of had the same disease, it sounds like.

• 1:20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like entitlement disease, yeah. Rachel makes the four-hour drive to Los Angeles in order to participate in that. She's like, "Don't go, wait for me, here I come." So that happens and then very shortly after this, the walls start closing in. Several people anonymously tip the police about the members of the Bling Ring because they fucking know them from Calabasas fucking high school or whatever.

• 1:21:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, and one of them probably like the boy she liked liked them and then she's like, you know what, I'm dropping a dime on you now.

• 1:21:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Alexis Niers, it turns out, is one of the anonymous tipsters, which is weird because she is actually part of the group, even though she insists that she didn't know what was happening and didn't participate. In September, Nick Prugo is arrested based on one of these tips and he basically, he's a child, he confesses to not just everything, but everything and stuff the cops don't even know is related to the Bling Ring. Like, that's how sweet and innocent he is. He's just like, yes, it was me. Here's what we did. I didn't know it was illegal, or whatever it is. This includes a burglary from 90210 actor Brian Austin Green's house, which they broke into because he was dating Megan Fox, who's so fucking well dressed at the time. But the

• 1:22:03Georgia Hardstark?

  thieves also wind up stealing a handgun from him, which is like scary. Nick turns in tons of stolen watches and jewelry and is photographed for his mugshot. And in the mugshot, he's wearing one of Orlando Bloom's t-shirts.

• 1:22:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus.

• 1:22:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, they're just children. I'm not, I'm not saying that any of this is okay.

• 1:22:25Karen Kilgariff?

  But they got away with it. I mean, like, there's a part of it that's kind of delightful.

• 1:22:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally, totally. Nick calls Rachel after his publicizer arrest and even though rationally, she knows he got arrested and she's probably like, I shouldn't talk to him when he's calling me. I bet this is being recorded. But she talks to him anyways and Nick casually says to her, hey, um, remind me what your dad's address is in Vegas where you're staying. Moments later, the, the police bang on her door and, yeah, find her. They search her house and find, you know, a bunch of stuff, including a nude personal photo of Paris Hilton that they had stolen, which is pretty shitty.

• 1:22:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:00Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, when Alexis is warned is-

• 1:23:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Why doesn't Paris Hilton have a safe?

• 1:23:04Georgia Hardstark?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:23:05Karen Kilgariff?

  She's from the richest of the rich. Like, isn't there some sort of internal protocol with these people? I mean, the Calgarra family version of that is my dad had a big bowl that he used to put his spare change in and then we would go steal change out of the bowl.

• 1:23:17Georgia Hardstark?

  My sister had one of those like children's lock boxes that all you had to do was like find the opening and, you know, and then I'd go buy like fucking Reese's Pieces.

• 1:23:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Exactly.

• 1:23:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly, in quarters.

• 1:23:29Karen Kilgariff?

  My dad would be like, "Quit stealing my quarters."

• 1:23:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And then quit putting them. And then it's literally called The Stealing Place now. Oops, now. Okay. When Alexis' warrant is served, the E-cameras are rolling and her arrest winds up in the pilot of Pretty Wild. So suddenly they're like, "Thank fucking god we gave this girl a reality show. We have all of this." It's so cringe to watch. Like, I watched another scene and it's just cringe. The rest of the series follows her preparation for trial.

• 1:23:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:23:55Georgia Hardstark?

  While searching, the house police find one of Rachel Bilson's purses, among other things. At this point, the fact that this rash of well-publicized Hollywood burglaries has been committed by a ring of teenagers from the valley has become in itself this hugely sensational story. No one can get enough of it. Vanity Fair writer Nancy Jo Sales covers the story mostly from Alexis's perspective as she navigates her court dates and notes that the family seems to be simultaneously treating her arrest like the scary problem it is, but also an opportunity to become famous and really lapping up the attention.

• 1:24:31Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, they manifested it, so you've got to live it.

• 1:24:34Georgia Hardstark?

  At the time, too, like, all of those starlets had DUIs and all it did was make them more famous.

• 1:24:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. It was really, like you were saying, that it's weird because paparazzi, although I know they still exist, it's not the same as it was back then.

• 1:24:46Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 1:24:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Where everything was being driven by that.

• 1:24:49Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so ugly.

• 1:24:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It was out of control.

• 1:24:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. The article goes on to be adapted into Sofia Coppola's 2013 movie, The Bling Ring, which is one of Karen's favorites.

• 1:24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  It's number one. That and Atonement.

• 1:24:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's what you cry, that's what you cry on a plane to is The Bling Ring.

• 1:25:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Why, why are these children so amoral?

• 1:25:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Alexis pleads no contest and is sentenced to 180 days in the county jail and she winds up serving 30 days. Nick also spends his time getting lots of interviews and doing lots of television news appearances. At the same time, Rachel, the, you know, Nick and Rachel, Rachel is saying nothing. Her mom is a lawyer.

• 1:25:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:25:25Georgia Hardstark?

  And so she almost isn't part of the public narrative anymore, which is so smart in that, like, way of, "Don't fucking say shit and no one will care."

• 1:25:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:25:34Georgia Hardstark?

  It'll go away.

• 1:25:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:25:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is so true. The consequence of that is that in the cultural narrative... Narrative, she is portrayed by all the other kids as the ringleader. They're able to point to her and she's not denying it. So everyone goes with it. The way she tells the story now is that it was more of a foulé adieu type situation. Where she and Nick had a shared compulsion to steal.

• 1:25:57Karen Kilgariff?

  And justify to each other. Like it's, we're doing it. It's fun. It's funny. It's, I mean, I'm sure it was fucking thrilling.

• 1:26:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God. So fucking fun. Like the stories that they tell about it was.

• 1:26:07Karen Kilgariff?

  And then you have eight grand in cash in your pocket. Like now I get to do, you're right. I get to have whatever lipstick I want.

• 1:26:12Georgia Hardstark?

  And the purest Coke you've ever fucking smelled in your life.

• 1:26:18Georgia Hardstark?

  At the trial, many of the celebrity victims testify. The prosecution builds their case around the sense of violation and fear that they felt to have their homes broken into as opposed to the actual material losses. Cause hopefully they were all insured too, you know?

• 1:26:33Karen Kilgariff?

  They were.

• 1:26:33Georgia Hardstark?

  They were for sure. That's why there was no security. Ultimately, all the members of the Bling Ring who are charged together plead no contest. Nick and Rachel get the stiffest sentences. Nick is sentenced to two years in prison and Rachel to four. And both serve about a year before being released on probation. Everyone else winds up getting probation and this is partially because an LAPD cop who is a major figure in the investigation is just as enamored with celebrity as the kids are. He consults on the Sofia Coppola film while the cases are still pending. Creating a big conflict of interest that lessens everyone else's sentences. So it's not just teenagers.

• 1:27:13Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what it makes me think of is I want to re-watch LA Confidential.

• 1:27:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, such a good movie.

• 1:27:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's such a good movie, but that whole part with the now reviled Kevin Spacey, but that whole thing is so LA. It's like, there are totally different rules here.

• 1:27:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 1:27:27Karen Kilgariff?

  And it is really acclimated to beauty and money and like, and this achievement thing.

• 1:27:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Status and fame.

• 1:27:35Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's, so it's like, yeah, the cops, you cannot get a cop to show up anywhere for any reason in most of LA. But you will see 25 of them standing around a set if they're shooting on Melrose. And I mean, that's just how, you just learn that. Like that's just how it works here.

• 1:27:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Yeah. That's so true. Such a weird town.

• 1:27:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so weird.

• 1:27:54Georgia Hardstark?

  When Rachel does get out of prison, she moves back in with her mom and stepdad to a bedroom with a mattress on the floor. And a small box of belongings. I mean, she's got some stories to tell though for the rest of her life.

• 1:28:06Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 1:28:07Georgia Hardstark?

  She says she remembers thinking, quote, "This is all that I need in the world." Like, she was just...

• 1:28:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Just so happy to be home.

• 1:28:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and done with the whole thing, because getting caught up in it, you know?

• 1:28:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:28:19Georgia Hardstark?

  All of the members of the Bling Ring now lead pretty quiet lives. Rachel is a hairstylist. It's unclear what Nick does professionally, but he's not clamoring for publicity. Alexis, though, is the, kind of, the only one who still maintains an Instagram presence. So maybe she's still looking for that elusive fame.

• 1:28:38Karen Kilgariff?

  If I was getting my hair cut and my hairdresser was like, "I actually was the leader of the Bling Ring," I would be overjoyed in ways that...

• 1:28:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, where does she work? Because I'll leave my beloved hairdresser for her immediately. Sorry, Marissa, but like, it's the leader of the Bling Ring.

• 1:28:53Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a great way to spend three hours of like, "And then what did you do with that watch?"

• 1:28:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't ask me about what I'm watching on TV right now. Tell me everything about your fucking incredible life, Rachel.

• 1:29:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Fascinating.

• 1:29:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And that is the story for our 500th episode of the Bling Ring.

• 1:29:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Genius, genius. That was great.

• 1:29:10Georgia Hardstark?

  All props to Molly and Ally for suggesting the story. And I was like, "I don't know, it's kind of vapid and dumb. Like, is Karen doing a really good true crime? I'll only do this if, like, legitimately it's a good episode." And they were like, "It fucking is, you have to do it."

• 1:29:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Molly's like, "Trust the process."

• 1:29:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Trust me. I'm like, "All right, fine, I'll do the fucking Bling Ring."

• 1:29:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, you know, it's interesting you say that now, because that's what I was going to say at the beginning, is it's our 500th episode, and from Stephen Ray Morris all by himself on the floor of your apartment, to this incredible staff of almost 40 people that we now have at Exactly Right. Like, we would be nowhere, and we could not have done it. And we certainly couldn't have done it to the degree that we have done it

• 1:29:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely.

• 1:29:48Karen Kilgariff?

  without all these people that we work with. So for our own team, thank you, Molly and Leanna and Aristotle, and just everybody, every week, that makes this podcast possible. Thank you all so much, because, you know...

• 1:30:02Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not the two of us.

• 1:30:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, in the least. And now there's like, there's two other podcasts that go along with this podcast, and there's video, and it's just like, we have team after team and people after people that really work their ass off to make it good.

• 1:30:16Georgia Hardstark?

  It works despite us, not because of us.

• 1:30:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I disagree. No, no, it just is like, it's just such a big old thing. It's very exciting. After 10 years and 500 episodes.

• 1:30:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Almost 10 years and 500. That's so wild.

• 1:30:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, the way it's grown. It's crazy.

• 1:30:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Turned, we really fucking bling ring this, the podcasting industry, didn't we?

• 1:30:36Karen Kilgariff?

  What we did was we checked the podcast industry's doors. A couple of them were unlocked.

• 1:30:40Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. And we broke in and we stole some Grey Goose. We went through their shit and we fucking.

• 1:30:46Karen Kilgariff?

  They don't need this 40 grand in cash.

• 1:30:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, but what a joy. And of course, to the listeners, to the murderinos, to our fucking people. Obviously, this couldn't have happened without you, but you've made it into this incredible thing that we could never, ever tell you how grateful we are for the lives that we get to lead now because of you guys listening to this podcast.

• 1:31:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And thinking that we're your best friends.

• 1:31:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, because we are.

• 1:31:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Because we are.

• 1:31:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Fucking run you down on the, in the street to honk at you.

• 1:31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. We will stick our whole arm and perhaps our head out the window to make sure you know that we see you.

• 1:31:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And we appreciate it. Our lives 500 episodes ago, I, we're so different.

• 1:31:25Karen Kilgariff?

  They were very different.

• 1:31:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It really is a beautiful place to be. So thank you guys so fucking much.

• 1:31:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, it's magical. Stay sexy.

• 1:31:31Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:31:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:31:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:31:44Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right production.

• 1:31:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

• 1:31:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 1:31:51Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 1:31:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin.

• 1:31:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 1:31:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 1:32:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:32:06Karen Kilgariff?

  And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbye.

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