What Comes After Surviving the Unthinkable | Kyle Carpenter

What happens after you survive something that should have killed you? After being critically injured in Afghanistan, Kyle Carpenter faced years of surgeries, setbacks, and a future he couldn’t yet see. In Part 2, Ryan and Kyle talk about learning to embrace the struggle, ask for help, and keep going when the path forward is unclear. Kyle Carpenter is a medically retired United States Marine who received the United States' highest military honor, the Medal of Honor in 2010. Kyle is the youngest living Medal of Honor recipient. 📚 Grab a signed copy of Kyle’s memoir, You Are Worth It, at The Painted Porch | https://www.thepaintedporch.com/👉 Follow Kyle on Instagram @ChiksDigScars Ryan Holiday is coming to a city near you! Grab tickets here | https://www.dailystoiclive.com/🇺🇸 USA dates: Portland, Oregon - June 8 San Francisco, California - June 11 Minneapolis, Minnesota - August 18 Chicago, Illinois - August 19 Detroit, Michigan - August 20 🇳🇿 NEW ZEALAND:Auckland, New Zealand - October 13 🇦🇺 AUSTRALIA dates: Sydney, Australia - October 16 Melbourne, Australia - October 18 Brisbane, Australia - October 20 Perth, Australia - October 21 🎥 VIDEO EPISODES| Watch the video episodes on The Daily Stoic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@DailyStoic/videos✉️ FREE STOIC WISDOM | Want Stoic wisdom delivered to your inbox daily? Sign up for the FREE Daily Stoic email at https://dailystoic.com/dailyemail 📢 Share | ⚙️ Manage Subscription

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world.

• 0:14Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. There's an Emily Dickinson poem where she's talking about the 300 Spartans. And she talks about how you're almost ashamed to be alive when you hear about things people have done like that. That's sort of how I felt when I was in the room with Kyle Carpenter. Here's Obama talking about Kyle.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  The man you see before you today, Corporal William Kyle Carpenter, should not be alive today. Hand grenades are one of the most awful weapons of war. They only weigh about a pound, but they're packed with TNT. If one lands nearby, you have mere seconds to seek cover. When it detonates, its fragments shoot out in every direction. And even at a distance, that spray of shrapnel can inflict devastating injuries on the human body. Up close, it's almost certain death. But we are here because this man, this United States Marine, faced down that terrible explosive power,

• 1:25Speaker 01

  that unforgiving force, with his own body willingly and deliberately to protect a fellow Marine. When that grenade exploded, Kyle Carpenter's body took the brunt of the blast. His injuries were called catastrophic. It seemed as if he was gonna die. While being treated, he went into cardiac arrest, and three times he flatlined. Three times, doctors brought him back. Along with his parents, who call Kyle's survival our miracle, we thank God they did. Because with that singular act of courage, Kyle, you not only saved your brother in arms, you displayed a heroism in the blink of an eye

• 2:10Speaker 01

  that will inspire for generations. Valor worthy of our nation's highest military decoration, the Medal of Honor.

• 2:18Ryan Holiday?

  That was the day that Kyle was awarded the Medal of Honor, the highest military honor in the United States. As I said in part one of the episode, back in 2010, Kyle's a 21 year old Marine on a rooftop in Afghanistan when a grenade landed near him and instead of running away, he threw himself on top of it, saving his buddy's life and his own. And so in today's episode, this is part two of the episode, Kyle and I talk about resiliency and patriotism and the importance of service. As I said, Kyle is a medically retired United States Marine who received the highest United States military honor, the Medal of Honor in 2010. You can follow him on Instagram at ChicksDigScars, such as chick, just with a K, C-H-I-K-S, DigScars,

• 3:03Ryan Holiday?

  and you can grab signed copies of his memoir, at The Painted Porch. By the way, I always try to weave in news stories when I'm doing talks. I just saw Kyle in Austin that day when I was speaking in Austin, and I'm going to be on the road again. I'm going to be in Australia in October. I'm going to be in Minneapolis and Chicago and Detroit. I'm going to be in San Francisco and Portland, taking the whole Daily Stoic Show on the road this summer. A couple more dates about to be posted as well. You can grab tickets to that at dailystoiclive.com and I'd love to see you.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  You know, in the beginning, to embrace the unknown allowed me to, to step onto those yellow footprints of boot camp.

• 3:59Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  To try to become a Marine. And really, a life of service is, is especially in the military, it's kind of like an entire journey, whether that's four years or a whole career.

• 4:09Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Of unknown. And then through my recovery and just in life in general is is an unknown journey. You can, you can, you know, prepare yourself. You can, you can try to, to learn and, and to become resilient throughout the difficult journey, but you never really know what the day or what life in, in the big picture is going to hold. But, uh, you know, I joined the Marine Corps to discover who I could really become and who I really was. And they say be careful what you wish for sometimes, but-

• 4:50Ryan Holiday?

  You probably thought that was, you were gonna find out who that was, you know, in battle, not in a hospital room, but one led to the other. And that's what I've been thinking about on this book that I'm writing now, because I'm, so I'm writing a book about Stockdale. And, you know, Stockdale goes to the academy, he thinks he's enlisting in World War II, he misses World War II, then he thinks he's gonna fight in Korea, like all his buddies do, like Hudner wins the Medal of Honor in Korea. I have his orders where he's like begging to be sent to Korea and they're like, it would be detrimental to your unit if we sent you to Korea. And so he doubts, so he keeps thinking that he's missing his moment, right?

• 5:31Ryan Holiday?

  Then he goes to test pilot school and he thinks, you know, that's, this is my thing. And then, you know, Jaeger breaks the sound barrier, he's not one of those guys. Then he misses like astronaut school and he thinks he's, you know, like-

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Come on, man.

• 5:45Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, he's like, what? You know, he keeps, but he doesn't know because you can't know that it's actually preparing him for this day in 1965 when he gets shot down. And then he can't even conceive then of what, you know, the next seven years are gonna mean. But like, you don't know what life is preparing you for. All you can really do is be ready for something that you can't even conceive of.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, whether it's through that journey or that moment that you're shot down and you become a POW, you know, I encourage people when I speak or when I have engagements on the road to- You know, embrace that struggle.

• 6:31Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  One, I think to be realistic that, you know, life is a very difficult journey at times.

• 6:38Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  But it's also equal is beautiful. And most importantly, it's worth living and it's worth being here. Because those moments are impossible to describe how immediately, I won't even say dark, just avoid.

• 6:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Things become. But, you know, to know that that life is difficult and when you face that adversity, to embrace it.

• 7:08Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  And you really, I mean, in a way, I feel like you don't have another choice. I mean, if you want to sit exactly where you are right now, or right in that moment of adversity for the rest of your life, that's really the only other option. But to embrace the struggle and understand that there's always a silver lining, there's always that light at the end of the tunnel. And when you reach that, which, you know, everyone heals in their own time and their own way. So I'm not telling you, I'm not one of those that say, oh, just, you know, brush it off, get back up and keep going. I mean, sometimes it takes an entire life to try to continue to get better. Sometimes it is just inching or crawling forward.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  But in the right time to know that when you move forward, you hold on those silver linings, you reach that light at the end of the tunnel, you will not only look back and be proud of yourself, you'll realize that the journey was worth it. And you will be the strongest, more perspective, driven, more grateful version of yourself. And ultimately, in that moment, you know, it's never, there's never a finish line. But in that moment, when you're on the other side, you'll realize that you're the best version of yourself.

• 8:30Ryan Holiday?

  And don't you think this is like, I think having a physical practice is a metaphor for that, right? Like every time I run, every time I jump in cold water, every time I lift weights or whatever, I don't want to do it, but I'm glad after that I did it, right? It's the feeling afterward that the shitty part is for and that, that, uh, you know, sometimes, and it's not just like, oh, hey, the endorphins, you know, you do the thing and then you get a little rush of endorphins at the end. Sometimes you don't, you don't feel anything at the end, but tired or whatever. Yeah. But like six months, six months later, when you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you're like, I am in the

• 9:11Ryan Holiday?

  shape that I want to be, or you have to pick up something heavy and you can pick it up because you did the work. That's, that's what it is. And yeah, I think that's the metaphor for life is like in the shitty moments. And it's not just in your own life. It's like every relationship has these dips and the good parts in the relationship are never those dips. They're at some point after those dips, if you don't quit and, and just knowing like, yeah, it's, um, you get through the hard thing because of what's on the other side of the hard thing.

• 9:46Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And, or to, you know, cross that finish line of whatever you're working towards and to know that you stayed consistent and driven and you got out and did the things that you needed to do. And this is a race or this is an accomplishment in life.

• 10:06Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, or rehab or whatever.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  That you stayed on, on the path and it's okay to veer sometimes, but you stay on the path. You stay, you know, committed to yourself, most importantly, and you cross that finish line, whatever that is. I think, uh, you know, it's hard to describe those moments because, you know, they're yours and they're yours alone. But, but, um, you know, to look back and for me, One of the most pivotal moments, aside from going with a big group of Wonder Warriors to jump out of a good airplane when we were in the hospital together,

• 10:45Speaker 02

  which, which, you know, brought great value, um, you know, cause my once nonexistent beating heart, you know, was beating and I realized that I was still, I saw a lot of surgeries left. I was still extremely banged up. My arms didn't work. I didn't have any teeth, but to have gone skydiving that time in the hospital, you know,

• 11:06Ryan Holiday?

  You went skydiving while you were still in the hospital? Like they took you guys?

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Me and my buddies had to get our doctors to sign permission slips. Uh, I think I told my mom after, but um, yeah, I mean, it's crazy. The doctors will say, well, if it doesn't injure you any further, hopefully, and you are X amount of time, you know, away from a surgery. And it's going to be good for your spirits, then you can do it. And so we went skydiving and it just, it was one of those pivotal moments that just showed me and kind of re-energized me that, hey, might be a little banged up, but I'm still here. I still have life and, you know, I can still get after it like a marine in a way. But it really was when I crossed the finish line in my first marathon.

• 11:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 11:54Speaker 02

  It was a very emotional moment because I had set that goal of a marathon. When I had just come off the ventilator, I couldn't do anything on my own. I mean, I needed a team of six to eight people. They had to make an announcement on the floor for people to come hold all my tubes and, and help me just go to the bathroom in bed. Uh, and so laying there in the bed and thinking to yourself, which is pretty much all you can do in the state that I was in. But I thought, you know, what is something that down the road I could attempt or if accomplished that would show me that I wasn't just still here. I wasn't just still Kyle, but somehow it showed me that I was

• 12:39Speaker 02

  actually better and stronger than I was before. And I thought, well, you know, I've never ran, ran a marathon before. And as a comical and unrealistic as it seemed at the time,

• 12:52Speaker 02

  You know, I'd already realized that if I could sit up in bed, which is a monumental task after you've been unconscious and your body's been atrophying for five weeks. But I realized if I could sit up in bed, I could work on hanging my feet off the edge. If I could hang my feet off the edge, I could work on standing. If I could stand, I could take a single step. If I could take a single step, I could walk. If I could walk, I could run. And maybe one day I could attempt that marathon. And so when I crossed the finish line, so I ran the marathon in October and I medically retired and left the hospital that July. So just a few months later, safe to say I might still be recovering from that a little.

• 13:36Ryan Holiday?

  From the marathon?

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Ten years later. But when I crossed that finish line, you know, all I could think about, you know, cameras everywhere and millions of people and but and so much noise. But all I could really think about in the place that I was in was that hospital bed.

• 13:54Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  And I had proved to myself that I did it. And I remembered all of the surgeries and all of the therapy and all of the believing and hoping and kind of persistence through therapy every day that that allowed me to be in that moment. And beyond that, all of the people that helped me, those that resuscitated me off the battlefield and throughout the hospitals, because I was resuscitated three times by the time I got to Walter Reed.

• 14:24Ryan Holiday?

  And think even of the people who invented the technologies that made those things possible. Like, like, it's not just like, oh, hey, all the doctors you personally met. But just think about every person, all the trial and error, the people who didn't make it, you know, that made it possible. So at that moment, when it happened to you, they weren't like, this is the end of the story.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yep. And so not only just for me personally, that moment, but as time has gone on.

• 14:51Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  I realized that from the moment I crossed that finish line, for the rest of my life, and it doesn't have to be a marathon, but for the rest of my life, I realized. After the fact that now I can tell people you can do it.

• 15:09Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  And it's not because it sounds good or I read it in a book. I'm telling you because I know you can because I did it.

• 15:18Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  And that that was just a very powerful and and kind of pivotal moment in my journey.

• 15:24Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, when you do hard things, one of the things you take out of them is your now you have evidence, not just belief, you have evidence that you're a person who can do hard things. And that that's a huge gift because life is one thing we know for certain is there will be more hard things in the future, big and small, but it's not going to go the way we want. And there's going to be moments, just like you experience in a marathon where you're like, is this worth continuing? Is it possible? You know, like, why does this suck so bad? You know, you have all those feelings and then you realize, oh, yeah. Mostly what you do is don't listen to those feelings. Like, that's the main muscle you're building. Like, you're obviously building muscles in your legs and arms when you run. But I think you're mainly listening.

• 16:09Ryan Holiday?

  You're mainly developing the muscle that decides who's in charge. Like Seneca says, we treat the body rigorously so that it's not disobedient to the mind. You're it's like, no, no, no, I decide. And I imagine those muscles were already pretty good for you as you went through the process of becoming a Marine because that's mostly what they're teaching you is like, you can do real hard shit and look at where you were when you started. Look at where you are now. That's proof of concept, but.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:36Ryan Holiday?

  Every time.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  How powerful the mind is.

• 16:38Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, that's that's important to understand that your mind is infinitely, it can be.

• 16:49Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 16:50Speaker 02

  Now, again, you have to work on it and and it's a deliberate effort, but it can be stronger and more resilient than you could ever imagine.

• 16:59Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  And it can carry the body.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  And impact your journey of life.

• 17:07Ryan Holiday?

  Can also be a doom loop. You know what I mean?

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 17:10Ryan Holiday?

  And it can be a doom loop because you're making the wrong choices and you haven't learned the right lessons. You know, can also be a doom loop because it's medically, you know, malformed and it needs to be treated. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's the other thing is it's like, your mind is your friend and it's also your worst enemy. And knowing when, knowing when to trust it and knowing when to be like, not only can I not trust it, I need to get help.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 17:40Ryan Holiday?

  Because I need to get something between me and these thoughts, whether it's a journal, whether it's asking someone for help. Or it's like, no, no, no, I need like medical intervention right now. And that's all, that is kind of the same, it's the same process, actually. And it's weird that we don't celebrate that as an act of courage also. Like, there's, there's a line in meditations, which whenever I do military talks, I always bring up because it's one of the only instances where Marx really is, who was a soldier specifically talks about fighting. He says, you know, we're, he says, we're like soldiers storming a wall. He says, if you've fallen and you have to ask a comrade for help, so what?

• 18:25Ryan Holiday?

  I love, I think that so what line is fucking perfect. Because it's like, when people ask us for help, like if your friend comes to you and says, I need help, you're not like, what a fucking pussy. You're like, dude, thanks. You know, I would love to help. Like, you're like genuinely, and then we're struggling or we have doubts. Or we need help and we're like, I don't want to bother anyone, you know? Or I don't want them to look that way at me, even though we know objectively, that's not what their reaction is going to be.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah, no, well said. And I mean, coming from the military culture. I mean, I guess I understand the toughness on I ask for help, all of that. But coming from the patient and just human side of me.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  It is difficult to understand because everyone, if you are alive, you know that life is hard.

• 19:20Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  If you are alive, no matter who you are, where you're at in life, someone has helped picked you up when you've stumbled.

• 19:29Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  And everyone knowing how difficult life is at times, the adversity that everyone faces, it's the most understandable thing to need or ask for help.

• 19:44Ryan Holiday?

  Well, there's almost a selfishness to it, right? To not do it. It's like, this is their job. Their job, like you probably, maybe you picked this up in the hospital where it's like, their job is to get you what you need. And actually, you're harming yourself and them by not telling them what's going, you know, like there's this instinct, the shame where we hide or we go, oh, it's good or I'm okay. And it's like, you're fucking things up, you know, like, like, and also, if you take it, which I think we should, that we are, we have important work to do, or an important part of the team, you know, that we have important contributions we can make, by not getting better faster, by not asking for the help, by not getting back to full strength,

• 20:27Ryan Holiday?

  you're like depriving the world of yourself. There's a way you could look at it. It's like, oh, this thing isn't like, oh, I'm, I'm being tough and I'm just gonna do this on my own. By doing it on your own, you're actually acting in a selfish, destructive way, because you're not able to do what you should be doing.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, very true. And, and a disservice to not just yourself, but whether it's those wanting to help you.

• 20:54Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Whether your family needs you to be better for them.

• 20:58Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  If you are a teacher or you have. You know, influence over others or you're in charge of others in the workplace. It's not just you to get

• 21:11Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  To, to think outside of yourself. There is a lot of things and a lot of people that you affect.

• 21:19Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  And so it's just, you know, that's why I say struggle should never be compared. And, you know, it's okay to struggle. I mean, it's normal to struggle. Everyone has, that's the beginning of time.

• 21:33Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  You know, all the way back to the caveman banging rocks together, struggling to get a fire going. And the world is a very daunting and complex and scary place to add to your own journey and your own struggles. So yeah, I'm so glad this came up because you know, if you're struggling in whatever way, whether it's asking just a friend or, or being, and I think it's important to spend time talking to yourself.

• 22:03Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  Which sometimes people look at me like, okay, this dude's kind of lost it.

• 22:07Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  You know, to spend deliberate time to five minutes to talk to yourself. So you, so you always are able to, as you said earlier, say, hey, this is just a tough day. Or this is temporary adversity that I know that I need, whether you do it or not, you know, to you. But these are the things that I probably need to do to get back on track or to get better. Or to say, hey, I'm feeling like I'm in a place I've never really felt before. Or I'm feeling like it's getting a little more difficult to crawl out of this space that I'm in.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  And then understanding that, okay, this is different. And maybe I do need, you know, to bring in a little bit bigger guns here to help me out.

• 23:04Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, right. Yeah, you wouldn't feel guilty calling in air support or something if that's what the battle demanded. Right? That's what they're there for. And they're, they're fucking raring to go. You know what I mean?

• 23:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:18Ryan Holiday?

  And then, and then for some reason in life, we're like, like someone went to school to help you with this thing that you're like, I don't want to bother. It's crazy.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  It is, but you know, it's a journey and thankfully, you know, there are voices out there and I try to do my little part where I can, but just that I think it's, you know, up to those struggling, just like military veterans and civilians. There is that gap of, you know, lack of understanding.

• 23:53Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  And I tell veterans, you know, it's just as much up to us to educate the public and it's just as much up to the public to want to understand who we are and what we do and where we come from. So, you know, it's up to you to get help, but all those voices that are, you know, in a good place in life or have gotten through that, those tough times that understand, you know, to continue to put the word out there that, you know, it's okay to be down and out, it's okay to get that help. But like, like so many things, it's a team effort.

• 24:41Ryan Holiday?

  There's different kinds of courage, right? We celebrate physical courage, you know? That's what the Medal of Honor, that's what the flying cross is about. That, that's what most of the awards are. But I think about, right? So, so Tom Hudner wins the Medal of Honor for trying to save his, his friend Jesse Brown. I think of the moral courage to be the first black aviator in the Navy that, that doesn't want you.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Oh, unfathomable.

• 25:06Ryan Holiday?

  Right. It's, and, and so that, that distinction between the physical and the moral courage, it's also, it, at the same level, it's like putting your ass on the line, you know? At the same level, it's like putting yourself out there in a deeply uncomfortable, at times dangerous situation where you don't know what the outcome is going to be. Cause it's not like, you know, I think that's something that we lie to ourselves about when we tell our history, we go like, you know, Jackie Robinson or Jesse Brown or Wes, Wes Brown is the first graduate of the Naval Academy. They weren't. The first ones to try, you know what I mean? Like, they were just the first ones who didn't get kicked out

• 25:49Ryan Holiday?

  or driven out or intimidated out. So like, the courage is not just the moral courage. There's also the physical courage and the physical self mastery. These were, this is a dangerous thing that they did. And it was, again, not a thing in a moment, but a day to day showing up must have been incredible. Just as you said, unfathomable is really the only word for it.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, to know, just to, to make it to that point, to become that aviator, that graduate, you know, you go back even further than that to just continue to survive.

• 26:29Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. Imagine dying for a country where you are legally not allowed to ride its buses or vote in its elections. Like, the courage and faith and commitment is unfathomable. Again, the only word.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and just one of the many things that, that I guess makes me so patriotic is knowing those that went through all of that and still serve the country. It's just, it's, you got treated so terribly, but you still were willing to raise your right hand for a country that didn't see your value yet.

• 27:12Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, in a way, you believed in the country more than everyone else.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Than itself, yeah. But even when people weren't around you, giving you a hard time or making life difficult for you or, or making you feel devalued, even when you're on your own, by yourself, to know what you were gonna have to make it through that next day.

• 27:36Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  And that next day.

• 27:39Ryan Holiday?

  And that's on top of how scary it is to land on an aircraft carrier in a prop plane.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 27:43Ryan Holiday?

  You know, like just the weight on top of the weight that's already ever the, the white guys are also like, you know, dealing with butterflies every fucking day.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 27:54Ryan Holiday?

  So then you put on top of that, they don't want me and they might not be helping me when I need it. They, you know, like I'm, I have to sleep with one eye open. It's insane.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  So like you were saying earlier, just, uh, not exactly the same, but the journey of, you know, persevering until that moment.

• 28:17Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Where it's just this amazing and powerful moment for yourself. But also all that came before you.

• 28:27Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  And everything you and, and those, you know, whether it's of your skin color, your culture, your family, you know, those that are the first to graduate from their family who.

• 28:41Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  It's not that their parents, I was in the Marines with guys that first generation American. And it's not that their parents wouldn't have gone to school or they didn't want to. But they worked 15 hours a day, every single day, hard physical labor for their entire lives. Just to hopefully that next generation or their children to be able to have that moment. And.

• 29:05Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Just like those moments on the roof, you know, everyone obviously talks to me and interviews me and documents my story, but that moment and my ceremony in DC. All cameras are on me, but it's really a moment. It was a moment for us all.

• 29:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  And the Medal of Honor, it just represents, it, it's a very heavy and, and beautiful burden. Because it represents so much. It represents generations of courage and sacrifice. It represents those that not only never made it home, but those that are still guarded today at the tomb of the unknown soldier. Those Marines that were on the ground with me in Afghanistan, the children that, that were killed from trying to learn how to read. And they got caught learning, trying to learn how to read and the next day they were. Killed and thrown and discarded on the side of the road in a dried out river canal.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  It represents ideals.

• 30:09Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah. Do you know what Truman would say when he would give a soldier the Medal of Honor? Cause he gives it to Hudner.

• 30:14Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:14Ryan Holiday?

  He would say, I would rather be getting this medal than be the one.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:19Ryan Holiday?

  Like, he would rather be the soldier who won the Medal of Honor than the president who got to give it. And, uh, which is obviously an incredible thing to say, and I think goes to your point about like, what actually represents the best, you know? Is it the highest office or is it someone who lived up to the ideals? And then famously like Congress, you know, knows about this. And towards the end of his presidency, there was this movement to, to see if there was a way to give Truman the Medal of Honor, cause he had served in World War One. And he finds out about this and he's like, absolutely fucking not. You know, he's like, I have done nothing to deserve it, even though, you know, he famously had done quite a lot as president.

• 31:00Ryan Holiday?

  But he was like, he believed in it so much that the idea that they would be bending the rules or making an exception or, or devaluing the thing to make a political statement. He was just like, absolutely not, even though at some level he probably wanted it more than anything. I just think that's so perfect.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:22Ryan Holiday?

  So what, what has the life been like for you now? What, I mean, on some level, I'm sure you wake up, you're grateful and then you're also like, and what am I gonna do today?

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, like, like everyone else, it's still an ongoing experiment and figuring it out. But, you know, I can't say one specific thing that I do all the time.

• 31:42Ryan Holiday?

  But you just mean the thing you wanted to do really badly, you can't do that anymore?

• 31:46Speaker 02

  That is correct. I think that's the, the beautiful thing about service and just wanting to make a positive impact on people around you in the world. That can happen in an unlimited number of ways.

• 32:02Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  And so, you know, whether you're just, you know, the average person out there or a veteran going through transition.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  There is always a next chapter and another path. I think sometimes it's just spending that time with yourself, thinking about things deeply. And you don't have to have the perfect plan, but just narrowing down, you know, whether it's what are my interests? How do I want to help? How do I want to make an impact? And so, you know, professionally, a lot of what I do now is public motivational speaking, which was completely unexpected.

• 32:49Ryan Holiday?

  So you weren't planning to do that at 21?

• 32:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely not. If I had to say, I probably would have stayed in an entire career. I was kind of already thinking about what I wanted to do next in the Marines. But at first, my first group that I ever spoke to was about 12 elementary school kids in a Sunday school class. It's a little foggy. I was still super medicated. I mean, it was early on in my journey. Kids are great, though. I love kids. As you know, they ask everything they're probably not supposed to. So the teachers would say, hey, don't talk about this and this. And all the hands go up and that's all they want to know. But, you know, I enjoyed it. It was just kind of got me out of the hospital at the time.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  And, you know, for many years, I didn't even understand, or I didn't even realize that I had a platform or a story that I could use to help other people.

• 33:48Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  It was just, like you said, I was figuring it out. I was trying to heal and, and, and figure out this new body that I had. And so the engagements were very small, more local at first to South Carolina, which I recovered in DC. But I kind of went home back and forth, depending on where I was at in my surgeries. You know, years later, it was a local Rotary Club and. And at some point along the way, I just, I realized, you know, maybe there's something here. Yeah. You know, people would share their stories of adversity with me and, you know, it was a journey and it was an evolution.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  And sometimes it was getting off stage and for many years I just winged it, which drove my parents crazy. They're like, what? You're going to go up and just not have anything? I guess. Like, I don't even really know what I'm doing here. But as time went on, you know, I would get off stage and I would say, oh, well, you know, no one really knows what a fire team is or a squad. So now I maybe should just say team. And I slowly started to kind of bridge that gap and the verbiage between military and civilian. And then I had a few encounters where, just lightbulb moments where, you know, I'd get off stage and people would say, well, I was never in the military, but, and then proceed to tell me their own version of struggle.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Right. And that's when I realized like, whether it's my book or speaking, although I got injured by a hand grenade, no matter where we come from or what knocks us down as human beings, the feelings that follow are universal. Sure. Everyone knows what it feels like to be knocked down, to have those moments of victory, happiness, hopelessness, sadness. And so that kind of really started the journey of being deliberate with my message, my intentions and what I wanted to get across to. You know, I try to never do the same thing twice. Every group, every person is different. And so that's how I tried to approach things.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  But, you know, other things, whether it's serving on the board of different various nonprofits, from mental health to wake surfing, which do kind of bleed over, you know, wake surfing is maybe a little selfish because I do a lot of wake surf. But whether it's boards, whether it's just taking five minutes to spend with a veteran, no matter what it is, going back to that world of an unknown that I was living in, in the hospital, I just try to focus on the time that I have and the overall impact that I can make.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  So I don't know exactly what's going to come my way. I don't ever want to just be this one thing.

• 36:43Ryan Holiday?

  Right.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  And kind of all those things combined, I've just settled on, hey, life is a crazy, unexpected and beautiful journey. I don't know exactly what I'm going to get into, good or bad. All I know is that I want to make the greatest impact on the world that I can with the time that I have. You know, as kind of wide ranging and vague as that is, it also allows me to be focused enough to, if I have 10 things in front of me and I can only do two or three, to say, hey, I'm going to do these three things because I feel like that's where I can bring the most value.

• 37:25Ryan Holiday?

  You've got a mission, you know what aligns with it and what.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Yep, or make the most impact. And a lot of what I do and my fellow recipients do is it's rarely individual endeavors.

• 37:39Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, sure.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  It's more being force multipliers for good organizations or people, causes or companies that are out there already doing great things.

• 37:51Ryan Holiday?

  Sure.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  And that it's not make or break whether we help or not, you know, they, they still got their thing going on and they're doing a great job. But if we can get up there and say, hey, whether it's, you know, hiring these veterans or giving to this organization, or hey, just, just do the right thing in the moment. You know, just to spread that positive impact, that hope and to remind people that, you know, this country, although it's like no country, it's, it's not perfect, it's an ongoing.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Experiment that, you know, freedom is a powerful.

• 38:31Ryan Holiday?

  It's worth it to go to your book.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  And a beautiful thing. Yep. It is worth it. And the people that are listening and all the people out there, no matter who you are, where you come from, what you believe in, that, you know, you are worth it and you're worth serving and sacrificing for and spending years in a hospital bed. And like I said, my book, you know, deep scars on our body because these ideals that built this country, that gave us the foundation we have, and that allow us to continue that pursuit of trying to always, you know, just like in my recovery, even though sometimes it can feel like inching forward, that, you know, we are always trying to get a little bit better.

• 39:17Ryan Holiday?

  And look, sometimes there are setbacks. Sometimes you go in the wrong direction and then you gotta get your, it's not, it's not a line like this.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 39:25Ryan Holiday?

  Like, and you don't have to read much history to know that 1776 to now has not been this. Maybe if you zoom out long enough, it gets rid of the moments like this, but it was a pretty squiggly line.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Yep. But I think through those, just to hold on to the hope and optimism that if we continue to try to stay on that path, to try to stick together.

• 39:52Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Because it might be, you know, people tell me sometimes that I'm optimistic to a fault. And I understand that. Sometimes maybe it can be seen as a weakness or naive, and I'm not naive, but I will always believe that there is more good than bad.

• 40:15Ryan Holiday?

  I think it's a lovely place to stop. You want to go check out some books in the bookstore?

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 40:19Ryan Holiday?

  Let's do it.