Jimmy Fallon: I Wasn’t Prepared For The Hate… It Was Brutal. I Was Starving, Living on $7.25!

What if the price of every laugh was your own happiness? Jimmy Fallon reveals the shocking toll of his comedy empire. Jimmy Fallon is host of ‘The Tonight Show’, Emmy-winning comedian and television personality, and former host of ‘Saturday Night Live’ (SNL). He is also the author of children’s and comedy books such as, 'Papa Doesn't Do Anything!’ and is set to launch a new innovative marketing show called ‘On Brand with Jimmy Fallon’ this Fall. Jimmy discusses: How he didn’t expect the entertainment industry to be so brutal. Why his sense of humour became his secret weapon. How he navigated receiving hate after achieving massive success in comedy. How his strict Catholic upbringing shaped his relentless need to please others. How his mother’s support gave him the confidence to chase his dreams. 00:00 Intro 02:24 What Made Jimmy the Way He Is Nowadays 03:37 The Earliest Memory of Jimmy Wanting to Please Others 04:52 Jimmy's Parents 07:33 Jimmy's Mother 13:02 Who Was Jimmy Trying to Impress More: His Mother or His Father? 14:28 Jimmy's Relationship With Money 17:05 Jimmy's Anecdote With Jerry Seinfeld 21:11 Was Jimmy a Confident Young Man? 22:11 Principles for Achieving Your Childhood Dream 25:51 How Did Jimmy's Parents React to His Career Plans? 28:10 Did Jimmy Ever Doubt Himself While Trying to Break Into Show Business? 33:51 Where Does Jimmy's Passion for SNL Come From? 37:58 Jimmy's Mental Health During the Auditioning Phase 40:41 What Would Jimmy Say to His Younger Self? 45:09 What Life Would Have Been Like If Jimmy Hadn’t Got on SNL 47:32 Jimmy's First SNL Audition 52:00 Getting on SNL Before Turning 25 – A Non-Negotiable Goal 53:32 Ads 57:36 Finally Getting SNL 01:02:01 Was There an Anticlimax When Jimmy Got on SNL? 01:02:50 Struggles With Public Criticism 01:05:55 How Did Jimmy Cope With Fame? 01:09:48 How Meeting Influential People Changed Jimmy’s Perspective 01:12:20 How to Never Get Bored of Hosting a Show 01:14:12 How Does Jimmy Keep Himself Challenged? 01:14:52 Dada and "Mama" Books 01:16:23 How Jimmy's Mother's Death Changed Him 01:19:01 What Jimmy Misses About His Mother 01:20:39 Jimmy's Grief After His Mother's Death 01:21:35 Would Jimmy Have Followed His Passion Without His Mother? 01:22:33 When Did Jimmy Start Being Concerned With Longevity? 01:26:50 Is There Another Chapter Beyond TV for Jimmy? 01:29:04 How Is Jimmy Misunderstood? 01:29:31 Jimmy's Pursuits Outside of TV 01:32:31 What Would Jimmy's Gravestone Say? 01:34:02 How Becoming a Father Shifted Jimmy’s Meaning of Life 01:34:44 Life Advice Jimmy Would Give to His Daughters 01:36:39 Question From the Previous Guest Follow Jimmy: Instagram - https://bit.ly/3HiDAs1 X - https://bit.ly/3Su5zrd TikTok - https://bit.ly/3Hk24Bu You can purchase Jimmy’s book, Papa Doesn't Do Anything!, here: https://amzn.to/3HgeQkc The 1% Diary is back - limited time only: https://bit.ly/3YFbJbt The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards (Second Edition): https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb Get email updates: https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt Follow Steven: https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb Sponsors: Shopify - https://shopify.com/bartlett Perfect Ted - https://www.perfectted.com with code DIARY40 for 40% off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I was just breaking down mentally of like, what have I done? I don't know what else to do with my life. And I think I wrote a letter to my best friend, like, I'm losing it, dude.

• 0:10Steven Bartlett?

  What did it say?

• 0:12Speaker 00

  It's a deep one. Jesus.

• 0:19Steven Bartlett?

  Jimmy, I was reading through your business portfolio and it's extremely extensive. You founded a production company, a ride, shoes. You've got the ice cream, the Tonight Dough. But the through line here is about making people happy.

• 0:30Speaker 00

  I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid.

• 0:32Steven Bartlett?

  And in your eighth grade class, you were voted most likely to replace David Letterman on the late night show.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Is that crazy? Because I ended up doing that.

• 0:38Steven Bartlett?

  Well, it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow.

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Well, I was beyond obsessed. I wanted to be on Saturday Night. So I worked at the Improv where I think the paycheck was $7.25. We didn't really eat much. I would turn cardboard boxes on the street into tables. It's tough. It's a lot of rejection, but the stage time was priceless.

• 0:57Steven Bartlett?

  And eventually you get a phone call?

• 0:59Speaker 00

  I got an audition for Saturday Night. This was my big opportunity. I remember going on stage, did my first impression and I blew it. That was probably my lowest moment. It was very depressing.

• 1:10Steven Bartlett?

  You'd said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25.

• 1:14Speaker 00

  I was gonna kill myself.

• 1:15Steven Bartlett?

  Did you mean that?

• 1:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I just knew that I would be on Saturday Night. It was going to happen and against all odds, I did it.

• 1:22Steven Bartlett?

  How old were you?

• 1:23Speaker 00

  23.

• 1:24Steven Bartlett?

  So crazy. Jimmy, I found some photos. Can you tell me about this one?

• 1:29Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 1:33Steven Bartlett?

  Wow.

• 1:36Steven Bartlett?

  Quick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode.

• 2:24Steven Bartlett?

  Jimmy, what do I need to know about you to understand the man that you are? And when I ask that question, I'm specifically trying to understand your earliest context. Because you're, in many respects, an anomaly, but you're an anomaly that was very, very clear on where you wanted to go in your life from a shockingly young age. So I'm wondering what gave you such clarity and what the context was that made made you the unique way that you are.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Gosh, that's a great question. This is gonna be the whole, this is gonna be the whole show right here. Because I want to find out. You know, maybe entertaining or being funny is probably, or wanting to satisfy people. I think, you know, and wanting to please people. I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid. Like, I don't know if it was my parents or my grandparents, or I wanted to make people feel good and give everyone, if I'm at a party, I want to make sure it's the best party, you know? And I'm giving everything. I want to make sure it's so pleasing or appeasing, one of those words. But I think I've always wanted to do that, and that's kind of what I do now.

• 3:37Steven Bartlett?

  Do you have like an earliest memory of that behavior?

• 3:40Speaker 00

  I think wanting to do good in like, I don't know, at sports maybe? Or, you know, in grade school or, I remember I was an altar boy, you know? So I was, at one point, I was like, I want to be a priest. Yeah, which I thought, I think I'd be a pretty good priest. I think it'd be funny and, you know, you could have good delivery, you know? Someone said to me once, they said, maybe you got your first taste of wanting to be an entertainer from being an altar boy, because you're up on stage, kind of.

• 4:14Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Technically, and there's an audience.

• 4:17Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  And you're up kind of performing, I mean, walking around and you're wearing an outfit, kind of, you know? Wearing costume and, you know, so it's kind of theater in a weird way. But I remember just kind of wanting to do good for like, be like, make my parents proud or my grandparents proud, or there was a kind of, I mean, it all happened so fast that I don't...

• 4:43Speaker 00

  I don't, I don't have problems with it or go back to it and go like, oh, that was traumatic. You know, I just think that I was always like a people pleaser.

• 4:52Steven Bartlett?

  Your parents were very strict.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, very Catholic, very strict, no cursing, no sex, you know, very Catholic, you know, no, no dirty words, no, I would listen to comedy albums, you know, and my dad would take a key and scratch the curse words out of the record. He would find where the dirty word wasn't stopping and scratch it out of the record so I wouldn't hear it. So I would hear Rodney Dangerfield and it would skip to the end of the joke. It was like, well, I'll tell you, and then cut to people clapping and laughing. Well, I didn't even know what the joke was. And he kind of ruined, I go, why are they laughing? But I didn't quite, but he would, my dad would tape music videos, you know, we'd have these shows in America, you know, called like USA Night Flight or Friday Night Videos.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  And he taped these music videos. He would watch them on Saturdays and go tape to tape of what videos we could see that wasn't offensive at all or sexually inappropriate or something too advanced for us or something.

• 5:54Steven Bartlett?

  What was he like as a man?

• 5:56Speaker 00

  Funny, life at the party, hardworking, very Brooklyn, very New York. He sang in a doo-wop group on the street corner. So he would go, you know, not professionally, but just that was one of the things he did in high school. And then he also fought in gangs, like not, just beat each other up gangs. Like, I don't think anyone killed each other, but this was back in the 50s where they just would, one street corner would fight another street corner and they'd get together and just have a fistfight or something.

• 6:28Steven Bartlett?

  Tough guy.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  He's a tough guy, yeah.

• 6:30Steven Bartlett?

  Emotional?

• 6:32Speaker 00

  No, not emotional.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  I've never seen my dad cry or any of that stuff.

• 6:39Steven Bartlett?

  Affectionate?

• 6:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I got I love yous and hugs and stuff like that, yeah. I mean, not overly, not the way I think I am. I'm I'm hugging my kids every single day and telling them how proud I am of them and saying, I love you, and they say, I love you back. And, you know, I I'm overly, you know, where I didn't have that. You know, I I think it was just, my mom was more that. And I think that was kind of put on my mom is you're the emotional, you know, you hug the kids and love them. And he was just more like, yep, I I love you, you know, that's great. He was rooting for me always, you know.

• 7:22Speaker 00

  But, you know, a little harsh, but not not crazy harsh like we, you know. Yeah, not nothing, nothing that crazy.

• 7:33Steven Bartlett?

  Gloria, your mother.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, Gloria's my mom, yeah. Sadly passed away. I miss my mom. My mom's name is Gloria, my sister's name is Gloria. My dad's name Jim, and I'm named Jim. A very unoriginal parent. Couldn't come up with any other name, like, those are the perfect names for you. But, yeah, my mom was my, she rooted for me. That was my number one fan. I was the golden child in her head, you know. Whatever I did, she was like, that's that's my kid, that's my, oh, my God, you're fantastic, you gotta go, you're great, you know. And she was always rooting me out, whatever it is I did, she would laugh, you know.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  And I I miss her not being around, you know, because I would talk to her every day, you know, sometimes multiple times a day and, you know, talk about Saturday Night Live. And she'd watch the show and she sketches, it was funny. I mean, I would, she was part of my.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  Life and I think part of what built my confidence.

• 8:35Steven Bartlett?

  Even as an adult?

• 8:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, completely.

• 8:37Steven Bartlett?

  You talked to her almost daily as an adult?

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would call her and just go, what's going on? You know, she loved to talk. That was her. She was great at that. She had one of those phones that had the phone cords that was so stretched out from walking all around the house and talking all day that the phone cord probably was two miles long. I mean, it was a pile of spaghetti on the floor. I'm like, it's so, I go, gosh, you should get a cordless phone. You won't even believe how your life changes. You can go anywhere, mom. But she loved to walk around and talk, so she could talk all day long. But then she would call me and say, I saw you on TV. Or, you know, if she saw, I go, I know, mom, I'm on that show. She was like, you're on Ellen today. I go, I know, mom, I was there. I was, that was me. I was on it, you know?

• 9:24Speaker 00

  But she was my number one fan and loved the bits that I would do. And she was one of the most interesting people ever. And like, you know, both of them together are kind of cartoon characters, you know? And by the end, you know, they both kind of would, couldn't really hear each other, you know? There was a lot of like, what? And my dad would go, huh? You know, I said, what? Huh? What? Huh? And they'd just say what, huh? Until I interrupted, go, stop, just stop talking. Because let's just move on. You can't hear each other. This is insane. But I wish I can give you the best story of kind of what my mom was like. I mean, I remember going home to the house where I grew up in Sagerties, New York,

• 10:07Speaker 00

  after I was on Saturday Night Live and, or maybe even during. And I came home and mom's like, let's go out to dinner. And I go, okay. I go, I don't really need to. I live in Manhattan. There's some of the best restaurants. I come home because I want home cooked, you know, meals, you know? But, but I was, I go, sure. I go, but just don't make a big deal. Don't embarrass me. She's like, I'm not gonna embarrass you. I'm not. I go, okay, let's go. So we go out to this restaurant and we sit in and we sit down. And she goes, I'm kind of getting a draft. And I go, no, no, we're not moving. We're not making a big deal. Remember, that's the deal. We're just not making a scene. We're having dinner. Like you said, we're gonna go. Okay, fine. So we're sitting there and she goes, let's order. I go, you're great. And she goes, I'll have this. My dad's like, I'll have steak.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  And I go, and she goes, I'll have the lamb chops or something. I go, great. So we're waiting and they come over with my dad and my meal. But they forget my mom's meal. They go, you know, we didn't put in the lamb. She's like, OK. So we can't really eat. So she goes, thank you. As they leave, she goes, I'm not gonna eat. I go, well, you can't do that because you're gonna make a scene. You have to eat whatever. She goes, no, I'm just, I'm fine. I don't care. I go, please don't make a big deal. She goes, I'm not making a big deal. Just where's my thing? I ordered it. I'm like, I go, don't make a big deal. Finally, they bring over this lamb thing. After this whole thing, I go, great, just eat it. She's like, so she's eating out of spite. And she takes the first bite and she goes.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  And I go, oh, oh, my God. She's not choking. And she's like pointing at her throat. And I go, oh, my God. So my dad sticks his finger down my mom's throat. And he's like, and she's like, making these noises. And I go, oh, this is a nightmare. And then some woman runs over. She goes, I'm a nurse. I'm a nurse. And knocking over tables and knocking everything over and grabs my mom and picks up my mom and gives her the Heimlich. And my mom is making a noise that I've never heard anyone ever. She was making, I've never heard my mom make this. She was going like.

• 12:06Speaker 00

  And and then she pulled it. And then a lamb ball flew out of my mom's mouth and hit the wall. And the whole restaurant is just looking at us. And they sit down and she's crying, you know, and she's, you know, alive. And my dad goes, all right, let's just finish dinner. And I go, finish dinner? It's over. We're going home. We're we're buying a bottle of wine for that lady. And we're getting out of here. My dad was like, that lady should have been in her own business. Maybe it was mom's time to go, you know?

• 12:36Speaker 00

  You know, but it was, they were that weird and funny where they're like odd people, but always making jokes. But that was so, and it was embarrassing. But, you know, I remember telling that story, you know, and she at a party and she would love to hear it because that was just very her. And, you know, she, she just did stuff like that where just like, oh, this can't be real. A lot of that.

• 13:01Steven Bartlett?

  Of both your parents, who are you trying to please the most? Do you think? Who are you, who are you waiting for the well done from the most?

• 13:10Speaker 00

  God, that's a great question. I would say probably my, my mom. I think she, she, I, I would like to make her laugh, you know, because she had a great laugh. They both did, but I think of both of them. I think my mom would be the one because I was like, she was a fan of mine. So it's almost like going like, do you like my new song? Do you like the second record?

• 13:35Speaker 00

  If you're a fan of the Beatles, you know, you're like, do you like Sergeant Pepper? Yeah, you know, and she would be like, I like it. I like this, you know, because I could tell that she's a fan of mine. So she's like, oh, I like this new thing you're doing, or I like the song you did, you know. I, I think that was great because I could get feedback from someone I could tell was kind of studying what I was doing.

• 13:57Steven Bartlett?

  For me, being a comedian and being comedic is so, so. I say this with the, the most amount of respect, but it's so, so strange. Because it's such a big risk and it's such a unique career to pursue with very little promise of it, of financial return. Or any real notoriety. Like when I spoke to Jimmy Carr and other comedians that I've interviewed, it's something a little bit.

• 14:28Speaker 00

  Say it.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 14:31Steven Bartlett?

  Crazy.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  Mental, yeah.

• 14:32Steven Bartlett?

  Crazy about it.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  You know, I never, and I still to this day, I don't care about money. I never cared about money. I never did anything for, I'm, I don't, I just don't do it. I never did it for money. And I always just, I worked because I liked working, you know, I liked, I worked since I was 13. Because I enjoyed, I guess, getting a paycheck, but you know, and paying for things. But I don't know what things I was paying for. I was 13 years old. But I mean, I, I liked the idea of. Going into work and working nine to five day and, you know, doing overtime. And I, I, I looked forward to working wherever it was. And like, maybe it was because I was trying to be my dad. Cause he would go to work in the mornings and then I would see him at night, you know, when he came home.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  But I, I remember just not caring about money. And my mom, I would always put our laundry in the laundry basket or whatever. My mom would do lunch, like Jimmy, I found five dollars in your jeans. And I go, okay, yeah, yeah. She go, thanks. She goes, next time I'm gonna keep it. And I go, do it. I could care less. What am I gonna do? I take, she's like, you know, and then my dad's like, you should gotta start caring about money. I go, I don't. I don't, I don't think I ever will. I just don't, it never was a thing for me. I never cared about, oh, I got the most or I got paid blah, blah. I just loved the experience of it all. The experience of? Work. Any work or? Any work.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  It led to comedy as well as when I did comedy shows, you know, when you, when you worked at the improv in LA. It was a great comedy club in Los Angeles on Melrose Avenue. You would go up and I think the paycheck was seven dollars and 25 cents. That's what you get paid total. There's no way you could do that for the money. Cause I mean, it's worthless. What's seven dollars gonna do for you? But it was the getting on stage, the stage time that was priceless. And building an act and trying to get a persona and build a brand and build a character and, and work in your act. That could lead to a bigger act or a Saturday night gig.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  A Saturday night gig paid maybe twenty dollars a, a gig. And that was kind of okay money. And they would also feed you on a Saturday. So, which is great, cause I had no food, you know? I was just like living there going like, oh, you know, I make up to seven dollars. I can buy some things, but I, you didn't really eat much. Saturday, they would feed you. And I remember my first Saturday gig at the improv. I go in, it's a big deal and I'm brand new, probably out in LA, maybe six months or something. And I worked my way, you, you have to do any weeknight, anytime they call, you have to be up there. And so I did that and I put my dues in for that and showed up and had, I did pretty well. I had a good 10 minute act.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  And Saturday night gig, and I get there and I see Jerry Seinfeld in the restaurant. I go. And I go out to the payphone and I call my parents 1-800-collect. Do you know what that is? Yeah, at least just about. Yeah, it's like a way to make a collect call so that you don't pay for it. If you have no money, so you would call 1-800-collect and someone would have to pay for the... My parents would pay for the phone call from LA. And I called my mom 1-800-collect and she goes, "What's... Hi, Jimmy." I go, "Mom, Jerry Seinfeld is at the club at the Improv tonight." She's like, "Oh, my God, Jerry Seinfeld. Oh, my God, I can't believe it." She's like, "This is the peak of Seinfeld." She goes, "Is he gonna go do stand-up?" And I go, "I don't think so. I don't know. He's just eating at the restaurant."

• 18:06Speaker 00

  And I know he's a fan of comedy and the owner, his name is Bud Friedman. And so he was there with Bud. So I go in and I'm getting ready to do my act, which is a lot of impressions. And I'm waiting there and who goes on stage but Jerry Seinfeld? He just walks on. They go, "We have a surprise for you tonight." And he gets a standing ovation before he even says anything. Comes out, does his greatest hits. I mean, crushing, every joke, the famous ones, the sock missing from the dryer, the whole bit. He did everything, then says, "Good night," standing ovation, and he leaves. And the guy goes, "Okay, who's on next?" Uh, Mark. And this guy, Mark goes, "I'm not following that." And he goes, "How about you?"

• 18:48Speaker 00

  And there's two other guys. They're like, uh, Daryl or... No, he goes, "I'm not following that." He's like, "Who's Jimmy Fallon?" And he goes, "That's me." He goes, "Yeah, you're up next, kid." I go, "Oh, my gosh, my first Saturday night, I had to follow the greatest comedian of all." I mean, he was the hottest comedian, might be one of the best comedians of all time now. I mean, he's the greatest. I had to follow that. It was my first act. I'm like... And so I went up and I had this doll. And I would do these impressions about a troll doll and different impressions of celebrities that would be the hosts of the... Like this one. Wow, you do your research. Unless you just carry that around.

• 19:34Speaker 00

  Like that one. So I would have this doll. Oh my gosh, this is my act. This is so I would have this and I go, hello, I'm Jimmy Fallon and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated. We're looking for a star or sponsor for our new line of Troll. I would do like a British accent, I don't know why. I thought that was cool for me at the time. Probably sounds terrible to you. And I don't mean to be offensive. I go, we're looking for a star or celebrity to sponsor our new line of Troll dolls for our new line of commercials. First up, John Travolta. And then I go, she's like, I swear to God, I mean, like, look at his hair, like, who does this, who does this hair? Like, it's so weird, like, what kind of doll is this, right? I mean, like, I can't even, like, play with this thing over here, you know? You know, Sandy, you know, do something like that.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  And but this time I came out and I go, first up for the celebrity is Seinfeld. And I go, okay, people, okay, look at these dolls. Better have their arms and legs don't move. These aren't fun. He's got no pants on. He's not even wearing pants, what kind of a doll is this? And it worked. And I followed Jerry Seifert. And I was like, and that was cool. And then I went down the list and I finished my act and I pulled out a guitar and I played guitar with the Troll doll and that was my act for years. My name is Jimmy Fallon and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated. Remember these little guys with fuzzy hair? We're looking for like a jingle for our new line of Troll doll commercials.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  First up, you two.

• 21:11Steven Bartlett?

  Were you a confident young man? So if I zoom back to when you were 12 and you were the class clown in 1986, were you a confident man? What was going on in your head?

• 21:20Speaker 00

  I think I was pretty confident. I wasn't cocky. I mean, I remember like my grandfather, my parents being like, hey, don't be too full of yourself. They didn't like kids that were too full of themselves or cocky. I was pretty, but I was confident.

• 21:35Steven Bartlett?

  In your eighth grade class, you were voted by your peers most likely to replace David Letterman on the late night show. And you were 13 years old at the time.

• 21:45Speaker 00

  Is that crazy? Because I ended up doing that.

• 21:46Steven Bartlett?

  It's so crazy.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  I ended up doing that. I replaced David Letterman.

• 21:50Steven Bartlett?

  But you were aiming at that.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  I wasn't.

• 21:52Steven Bartlett?

  You aiming at the SNL thing, no?

• 21:54Speaker 00

  SNL, yeah, Saturday Night Live was my aim. I wanted to be a cast member on Saturday Night Live.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Which I ended up doing, but then Saturday Live is what got me late night. You know, which is Letterman's show and then late night got me the Tonight Show.

• 22:11Steven Bartlett?

  When you look back at how at that age, you were aiming, you know, as a young man to be on SNL, which is exceedingly rare.

• 22:22Steven Bartlett?

  But you also went on to, you know, replace David Letterman on the Late Night Show. When you look back in hindsight and go, so if you're, if one of, if your child came to you and said, Dad, how does one aim at a goal and then accomplish it? And how did you aim at such a goal? And in hindsight, what were the factors that went into you accomplishing that goal? Are there like principles that you could transfer to somebody to make them accomplish such a goal? Cause you know, one of your best friends, I think it was Frank Gentile, recalled that you are, he says, I've never met anybody more focused on what their goal was in life. It's, you know, I'm not a huge believer in manifestation, as people often describe it, but it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow.

• 23:05Speaker 00

  I remember just being, I don't know what it is. I wasn't that well read or anything like that, but I just knew that what I wanted to do, I think from around 12 or 13. And maybe it's because people said I was good at it or I was making people laugh, you know? So I think when my peers and my friends said like, you should do this. Like, I, I think you're going to be famous one day or I think you're going to be a comedian. You know, I think you start believing it and you're like, oh, maybe I am good at this. Like, I don't even remember watching late night or David Letterman around that time. I knew Saturday Live and I probably did watch Letterman and Johnny Carson, The Tonight Show.

• 23:47Speaker 00

  But I think I started thinking, oh yeah, Saturday Live will be, that's what I want to do. That's the ultimate dream, because that felt exciting and electric and show business, but also cool and edgy. And I was like, if that would be my goal, like, how would I do that? And I remember like secretly, if I threw a coin in a fountain or if I made a wish on a birthday cake, you know, which I still do, you know, that's not my wish anymore, but I remember I would blow out the candles and I'd say, I want to be on Saturday Live every year, all of my birthdays. Any wish that I could make, that's what I wished, that I could be on Saturday Live. And so maybe that.

• 24:29Speaker 00

  Pressure that I put on myself drove me to figure it out and see what were the right steps. I think, you know, my big decision, you know, was going to stand up and doing impressions. I knew the show could always use impressions and people doing impersonations of celebrities. You know, and so I thought that was one way in. And so I remember doing that. And then I remember reading that people that study at the Groundlings, which is an impromptu troupe, if they study there, some people come from the Groundlings to Saturday Night Live. So I moved out to LA and started taking classes at the Groundlings, just in case that could help me.

• 25:10Speaker 00

  I also knew that there was a management company named Brillstein Gray that managed a lot of the people that were on Saturday Night Live. And if I could get seen by Brillstein Gray, maybe they would put me in touch with, you know, the Adam Sandler's of the world or the, you know, people that, you know, they had everyone from, I think, Belushi on till, you know, they probably have people on the show now. But I remember getting a call from a manager who used to work at Brillstein Gray, just left. Her name was Randy Siegel, and she was great. And she was my manager. I moved out to LA with the manager. And so I thought she would know how to guide me to Saturday Night Live.

• 25:51Steven Bartlett?

  What are your parents saying at this time? Because if your, if one's kid says, I'm going to go out to LA to do comedy and improv and these kinds of things. Your dad was a career man. He was working at IBM, I believe?

• 26:02Speaker 00

  Yes, he was working at IBM. And he said to me, I said, he said, look, just guarantee me two years of college. Just, just go to college for at least two years.

• 26:15Speaker 00

  I think we made a deal where he said, if you go for four years, I'll, I'll pay for two years.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  And you pay for two years. I go, okay, that was kind of a deal for us. And so I remember going to college for three and a half years. And on that half of that last semester, I I got kind of an opportunity to go to LA to meet with this manager. And I said, I called my parents and I said, I think I'm gonna drop out and move and go to LA and go for it. And just try to take acting lessons and take class at the Groundlings and try to get an audition for Saturday Night Live. And they were like, all right, well, really think about this, you know, this is really what you did. And who is this person that you're going out to? And I go, her name is Randy Siegel, she's a manager.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  And I had met her through a guy that I used to work for in in Troy, New York. I was a receptionist at a news weekly called Metroland. I used to answer the phones and I would also do the personal ads, like, you know, men seeking women and blah, blah, blah. I typed those things out. And I remember he moved to LA to be a music manager. And so I gave him my tape on his way out, a videotape of me doing my troll act. And I said, if you see anybody. He goes, well, I'm not doing comedy, I'm doing music. I go, I know, but if you see anybody, maybe pass it along. And so he passed it along to this manager. So she talked to my parents and they got a phone call where she was like, I think Jimmy's got something, you know, he's green.

• 27:47Speaker 00

  But I think if he gets, you know, if he goes to work and puts in the work, I think that he'll get something, you know, I I I think he'll be successful.

• 27:57Steven Bartlett?

  He's green?

• 27:58Speaker 00

  Amateur, he's, you know, he's not ready yet. If you, you know, you're not ripe. He's he's green. So if you're green, you're like, you know, a green banana, you know.

• 28:10Steven Bartlett?

  Did you ever give up on yourself? Or did you ever doubt yourself while you were out in LA?

• 28:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, definitely, a bunch of times. It's tough when you're just not getting the the it's not working. And you want to tell everyone that it is working, but it's hard. It's a lot of rejection and you end up like. You're just trying so hard and you go, I know what I want, but it takes so much time to get there. But in the meantime, you have to take auditions. You have to, because I was like, I didn't want to take acting lessons. Because I read somewhere that James Dean would go to acting class and just watch and never do the acting lessons. And I liked James Dean for some reason. So I would go and I'd just sit in the back of it and watch everybody. And finally, the acting teacher came up to me and was like, are you sure you want to do this?

• 28:59Speaker 00

  Because I mean, you can get so much more out if you did this and started working with other actors. I think you should, because you're a stand-up comedian. You don't perform with anyone. You're by yourself on stage. I think you should learn how to act with other actors. And I was like, yeah, maybe he's right. Like, I'm not James Dean. So I started acting. And then you realize, oh, gosh, I'm really not good at this. I gotta learn how to do this. It's a skill to play off of other people and to listen to other people. So then I started doing auditions, because that's my manager would get me an audition for movies and stuff. And I think my first audition was to play a lifeguard in the Brady Bunch 2 movie or something.

• 29:42Speaker 00

  And I had to say like one line, like, get out of the pool. Something like that. And so I remember going and my line was printed on fax paper. They faxed it over when fax machines were a thing. And so I had, and they would tell you, bring in the paper when you do the audition. Hold the lines so that they don't think that you're off book. So they think that you have a chance of getting better. I go, okay, great. So I'd hold the paper and I go, and action. I go, get out of the, get out of the pool. You go, okay. You want to just do it one more time? I go, okay. It's quiet and it's just so awkward. And I go, get out of the pool. Or whatever it was. And she goes, okay, bye-bye. I actually said, bye-bye.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  And I was like, my face got red. I got so embarrassed. And I got back to my apartment and my manager called me and I go, did you hear feedback? She goes, yeah, you didn't get it. They said that, weirdly, she goes, they said you're too green. And I go, okay. She goes, but we have to work on it, you know? Just keep doing it and keep doing auditions and working on these lines. And you should get an acting coach and go, bring the lines to the acting class. And go, here's, can you do get out of the pool? You know, whatever, better. So it's just got over and over again. You get rejected and you wouldn't get parts. I got. No parts I probably auditioned for, you know, thirty shows and movies and stuff like that. You just kind of, it's tough. It's really tough.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  Say, anyone going into the business or acting or any of that stuff, the entertainment stuff, you're gonna get beat up. It's gonna be to the point where you're like, I'm so depressed, I can't do it. But just know that if you can just get through it and keep working, eventually, whatever it is, is gonna happen in life, will work out. Maybe you won't even be an actor, but maybe you'll be a lighting director, maybe you'll work on sets, maybe, maybe it won't be acting, but it will get you to where you're supposed to be. If you just keep going and keep doing, and I just kept kind of telling myself that. And, you know, I ran out of money and I was like, I'm gonna have to go home to live with

• 31:53Speaker 00

  my parents and probably go back to college if I can, if they can let me back in. And I think I even looked, might have looked into it, but I was just so bummed out because that's not what I wanted at all. I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live. And, you know, it's just, reality was like, oh, you almost didn't feel like of living in this world. Because it's like, people couldn't believe that, they're like, that's not reality. You can't just say I'm gonna be on Saturday Night Live. I remember going to my Groundlings class, my first teacher, who was great, his name's Jim Wise, and he goes, what do you want to do? And he would go around the horn. And people were like, I want to be in movies. I want to be in a TV show. I want to be in a sitcom. And I said, I want to be on Saturday Night Live. They're like, well, that's very specific.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  That's like, yeah, it's one in a zillion. That's what I want. And he brought that up to me, brings it up, and he's like, I'll never forget that. You said that, that's what you wanted to do. And that was my ultimate, ultimate. I said, if I do nothing else in life, that's all I wanted to do. And like, even if that, if I got on for one season or one episode, then I could do whatever I could. I didn't care what I did after that. That was my...

• 33:05Steven Bartlett?

  What was the fixation with Saturday Night Live?

• 33:08Speaker 00

  I think my parents loved it and and their friends loved it, but that was what they would watch. And that was like the pinnacle of comedy. That was the best comedy show in America. And so that was the best. So it's like playing for the greatest team, you know, playing for the Yankees or, you know, whatever. I don't know soccer, but Arsenal, I have no idea.

• 33:34Steven Bartlett?

  Manchester United.

• 33:36Speaker 00

  Oh, Manchester United. You couldn't help yourself. Oh, my gosh. But yes, playing for that, you're playing, you want to play, play for the best. If you can make it there, that's the best team. Then you could do whatever for that, if you play for Man U.

• 33:51Steven Bartlett?

  But it's slightly different with you because a lot of upcoming football players would be happy to play for any Premier League team. Man United is, you know, of course, great, but they would aim for any Premier League team, whereas you seem to be like religiously intent on it being Saturday Night Live.

• 34:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, had to be that because I think that's what we we would watch, we would talk about.

• 34:11Steven Bartlett?

  As a family.

• 34:12Speaker 00

  As kind of a family, yeah, as a family, they would, they would tape it, you know, we were one of the first families to have a VCR, you know, which is anyone young listening to this podcast, a videocassette recorder. So it would tape, it's like a DVR, digital video recording. So it's a videocassette and you would tape it on these giant tapes and they would record two hours, you know, on television. And so we would tape the show and then you could rewatch it. And then I would rewatch it and study it and watch the sketches over and over again and watch repeats and watch the greats and watch Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and people I want, Bill Murray and Steve Martin, people I wanted to be like. As it got into high school, I was taping it, watching the best sketches and I would

• 34:55Speaker 00

  go to my friend's party and show the best sketch that week and go, oh, this is the best sketch. It's Chris Farley and it's blah, blah, blah. Or, you know, I would be obsessed that way. I get, we almost became so obsessed in high school that I couldn't really hang out with anyone while I watched the show because I didn't like it if anyone didn't like the show. And my parents used to let me drink if I was stayed in, if I stayed home. So if I didn't go out, they would buy me a six pack of beer that I could drink and probably, you know. Sixteen or something, or something like that. You know, not the smartest, but, but they would, you know, I would hang out with my friends and they would say, yeah, they're gonna have a couple beers and, you know, I would watch

• 35:39Speaker 00

  Siren Live with a six pack and watch it and study it. And I ended up just stopped watching it with anyone else. I, you know, I guess I still drank. That's sad if I drank by myself, but I became an alcoholic at sixteen. Uh, but, but it was, it was a thing that I would do and I would just study it and I would, every Siren Live, and it continued me into college. My friends would have parties and they go, you gotta come, right? I go, I'll be there at one o'clock. They go, you, no, the party's, you gotta come. I go, Siren Live, can't go. They go, just tape it. I go, I can't just tape it, I have to watch it live. Obsessed.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was beyond obsessed, uh, obsessed, without a doubt. That was it. That was the pinnacle, like, even, I, I went on like an NBC tour with my dad, like a bus trip to New York City and took me on a tour of NBC to see Siren Live. And, you know, this is, I was older. I was just so nervous to go in the building and, oh my gosh, this is the building. This is what it looks like. This is the, you know, the, the, the doorway and the revolving door. I know all this and I know everything. I know the, what the walls look like, I know what the ceiling's painted like. I know art deco, decor, you know, I knew everything. I geeked out and I was like, this is the best day, just going on tour there.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Now I've worked there for twenty something years. You know, it's my home. I, I've been working in that building since nineteen ninety-eight. I don't even think about it anymore. That's the door I go into work. Every now and then I'll walk to, you know, I, I walk to work almost every day, but I'll get that feeling again, like, oh yeah, don't lose that.

• 37:25Steven Bartlett?

  This word obsession, it seems to be, earlier when I said, you know, the principles of all the characteristics that got you to where you are today, but clearly obsession is one of them. I mean, you're obsessed to an extent that I didn't actually realise with becoming a host on Saturday Night Live.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:42Steven Bartlett?

  And obsession is a powerful force, isn't it? Because it it means that one can bang their head against an immovable object over and over again until the immovable object moves out its way. And that's kind of what you found yourself doing in LA. You're sat, you're going to these auditions, you're getting rejected. What was your mental health like in that period when you're in LA?

• 38:02Steven Bartlett?

  Because you're dealing with constant rejection, you're running out of money, you're contending with having to go home.

• 38:07Speaker 00

  It wasn't the greatest, and I'm a pretty positive guy in general. But I think that was probably my lowest, looking back. I mean, I remember like,

• 38:19Speaker 00

  you know, trying to see what therapy was, or if I could afford a therapist, or what that meant, or

• 38:26Steven Bartlett?

  Why?

• 38:27Speaker 00

  Because I was just breaking down mentally of like, what have I, what have I done? Like, what have I done? I've kind of made these decisions. And I wasn't getting anywhere. And it was like, I mean, I had really kind of no friends and no social life, just obsessed with work and obsessed with stand-up and trying to make my act better and trying to see if I can get on Saturday Night Live and having no money. And just going like, what is this all about? You know, I can't, I don't know if I could afford to keep failing. You know, I can't live in an apartment if you don't make money, you know?

• 39:09Speaker 00

  I can't, can't afford gas to get to the audition. You can't eat. You just like, you just go, oh yeah, I just gotta keep doing gigs, but I'm running out of space. So maybe if I go home, I can. Go back to doing like these little clubs and make some money, save up money, then go back out and try again in L.A. I remember they became a moment where I'm like, oof. I think I wrote a letter to my best friend, like, I'm losing it, dude. And in fact, I know I did because he still has the letter and he works for our show now. And he says, I have it and I'll publish it one day. I'll give it to people if I need the money. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll release your letter of you emotionally broken.

• 39:53Speaker 00

  I go, you know, but that's what best friends do. They hold it over your head.

• 39:57Steven Bartlett?

  It's gonna sell on eBay.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. I'll sell it on eBay. And I go, gosh, I mean, you know, it's one of those embarrassing things. Well, I probably wish I didn't write that, but.

• 40:05Steven Bartlett?

  What did it say?

• 40:08Speaker 00

  I go, I don't even ask, but I think it was something to the point like, I'm losing it. And I don't know if I can make it. And I have, I don't know what else to do with my life. And, you know, something to that or affect or, you know, I miss college. I miss my, I miss you. I miss having friends. I miss going out. I miss, you know, I think it was that. It was like maybe regretting my decision to, to move to L.A.

• 40:38Steven Bartlett?

  Was there anything that this Jimmy might go back to that Jimmy and say to him at that time? If you could to some message that maybe he needed to hear that he wasn't hearing? Maybe advice or?

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, of course, the advice would be like, it's gonna be okay. You know, I, I, I, I think probably the best would go back and be like, hey, I'm proud of you, dude. Like, you're doing exactly what you have to do. You're doing what you have to do to become me. So I'm so proud of you. So keep it up, you know? You know?

• 41:18Speaker 00

  I mean, I would, all the things that like, I remember just in L A and like, I remember like finding cardboard boxes that were thrown out in this garage next to me and bringing that in, not dirty or anything, but new boxes. And I would put sheets over and they would become tables. So I would use that as like kind of an end table next to my bed and stuff like that. And you go, oh yeah, those are, it's creative. You know, it could, you could look at it so sad to talk about now and go, oh my God, you're by yourself and you had cardboard boxes as tables and you go,

• 41:53Speaker 00

  I didn't think about that. I was just trying to be, that would look nice if I had a sheet over it. And that looked kind of cool. It was very kind of dormy, you know, but I think about, I don't know why. It just made me think about it now. I'm just, so maybe, I mean, having cardboard furniture was depressing. But you know, you know, I, I think that's where you have to dig and see if you can make the, find the funny in it and go like, if you can perform now, then get ready when, if you're, if you get, if you step in the ring, you're an animal. Well, I am proud of you.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  You didn't quit. You didn't, you're really like against all odds. You're doing something that no one in the family has done, that none of your friends have done. You really don't know where this is going to end. And you're kind of in adventuring into an odd place. You're discovering all new stuff that's never been done. And it's, it's, it's, it's great to do this because one day you'll get tested in a different way and you'll be mentally stronger. And so I, I'm proud of you because this is all tough now, but it will pay off when, when you need to show your strengths or, you know, it's almost like you're going to the gym.

• 43:11Speaker 00

  You know, it will pay off one day. Like, I don't want to do it. I don't want to run. I don't want to lift. I don't want to do anything. I don't want to eat. You go, I know, but the future me is telling you, this is great that you're doing this because you're going to have, it's just going to be, when, when you need it, you'll be strong enough. And so I think I was becoming stronger as it was building it. And I look back and I, I wouldn't change anything, you know, at the time, you know, if anything, I.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  You know, I would say I wanted to happen faster, but not really. I think you have to live through all the stuff and go, oh, yeah, no, I remember that. That was cringey. Oh, that was rough. Oh, I remember that. That was bad. But that was a good one. And then you go, oh, yeah, that was another great one. And then, oh, yeah. And then you start thinking of all these stuff that you thought was depressing then. It's kind of charming now. And you go, kind of, I love those days. I love the days where you bombed and that was the biggest problem. The biggest problem in your life was that you didn't do a great impression of Jerry Seinfeld. Like, that was the biggest problem in your life? Okay, then I think your life is pretty good. Dude, you look back, you go, that was, it meant so much to me, though.

• 44:27Speaker 00

  You know, and I think about that now with my daughters. You know, they tell me stuff is going on in school and stuff. And to me, I'm like, you won't even see these kids. This won't mean nothing to you. These kids, maybe you'll be friends with them for life. I hope that'd be great, but I don't think so. I don't remember anyone, I don't talk to anyone from my grade school. But it's the biggest thing in their life now. So you can't say that, because it's like, Dad, this is my life. What are you talking about? This is the biggest thing, like, high school is so slow when you're in high school. Right now, four years is a joke. Four years is like a joke to me. I go, oh, my God, I can do anything for four years. When you're in it, it's long. Four years feels like 25 years, you know?

• 45:08Steven Bartlett?

  Could you have imagined a reality where you didn't end up getting onto SNL at some point? So if we were sat here now, you're 50 years old, and you're sat here and you'd never done it?

• 45:19Speaker 00

  I would have done it.

• 45:20Steven Bartlett?

  But, so this is what I'm getting at, is?

• 45:24Speaker 00

  I would have found a way and done it, and even just walked on or something. I would have found a way to get on it. I would have found some way to either be an extra or walk in the background or do something, or I would have, there's no way.

• 45:42Speaker 00

  There's no way. I have to. But you're saying if I didn't, what would happen? Or you're saying, I don't think it would ever happen.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  I had to be on it. I was gonna make it happen and I had to do it. You know, I don't think there was an option. I don't think there, I would have done it. I don't think there's ever an option that I would never have been on that show.

• 46:03Steven Bartlett?

  I ask the question because there are areas of my life where I sometimes reflect and go, I always thought that that was going to happen. And the consideration that that might not have happened makes, it's almost like this like, then life wouldn't have been real. Like then, everything I believed would have been a lie. There's small things in my life that, when you look at me as a young man and I'm filming myself, pretending that a TV show have asked me to do something that ended up happening 10 years ago. And I go, it was, that was always how in my brain.

• 46:32Speaker 00

  I did that too.

• 46:33Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 46:34Speaker 00

  But I mean, I think a lot of us performers have done this, where you interview yourself and you pretend you're on a radio show. And you go like, here I am, I'm counting down the top 10 songs and here's the vote. And I have cassettes of me doing that, you know? I think a lot of people do that.

• 46:51Steven Bartlett?

  When I asked you the question about SNL, you were so convinced that that's always the way that it was going to go. And I'm like, that's what I'm trying to, I wanted to see your reaction when I make you consider that it didn't go that way.

• 47:02Speaker 00

  I can't see it not happening. I had to, it was going to happen. I don't know. I don't know if I can tell you honestly that I could imagine another path. I don't even know if I could fake it, because I would be lying. I know I would be on SNL. I have to. I just, that was, I can't even, I can't lie and say, well, I guess I could have done it. I just know.

• 47:32Steven Bartlett?

  So how did you go from that kid who's writing the letter to his friend saying that he's considering giving up and seeking out therapy and those kinds of things? How did you get from that moment to that first Saturday Night Live audition?

• 47:46Speaker 00

  I think you get little things, little good things happen to you.

• 47:52Steven Bartlett?

  You were gonna use the word luck, right? It sounded like you paused on the word luck, though.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  I could use luck, but I I'm just gonna say good things. I mean, it probably is luck. I feel like I'm a lucky person, but I think they're just like, like you. I think I got a holding deal at Warner Brothers Television to do like, to act for a sitcom or something, even though I didn't want a sitcom. I remember putting in the contract that if I get Saturday Night Live while I'm doing the sitcom, that I can contractually get out. And they said, no, that's the whole reason. No, no one can, you can't. I go, well, that's, that's the only reason I get, I have to get this in, this clause in my contract.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  And they said, no one's ever asked for that, but, um, okay. So they put it in my contract. So if I was on the show, the show didn't get picked up, but if the show got picked up and I got a chance to audition for Saturday Night Live, I could leave the show contractually. Because they were like, it's just no, it's not gonna happen. But so I ended up acting and getting a little money, which is great, because it's actually, I could stay at my apartment and actually still work on my goal of Saturday Night Live, you know, while not doing, I didn't want to act in sitcoms. But that, that helped me take a breath and go like, okay, I got a couple more months of opportunity.

• 49:24Steven Bartlett?

  And eventually you get a phone call?

• 49:27Speaker 00

  Yes, um, my manager sent tapes and tapes and tapes to Saturday Night Live saying, can, you know, this is, he really wants it, blah, blah, blah. And so I got an audition for Saturday Night Live. This is my first of two auditions. My first one, I went to do stand up, my troll bit onstage at the Comic Strip here in, uh, in, in New York. And I remember going in and having my one outfit that I owned, that I thought was the best, and, you know, some shirt from The Gap or something, and Nike sneakers that were like, it was such a big deal. I only wore them on special occasions and this was it.

• 50:08Speaker 00

  And, uh, I went onstage with my troll doll and I saw Lorne was in the audience. He had his hat on and-

• 50:14Steven Bartlett?

  He's the founder-

• 50:15Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, he's creative Saturday Night Live and now the late night on The Tonight Show. And I remember going onstage and as soon as I did my first impression, I knew it just didn't work. If I didn't have the audience. It was cut down from a 10 minute act to, I think, three minutes. And I had to catch the audience, hook them in three minutes and leave. And I started the first 20 seconds. I could tell, this is bad. And it was sweaty. It was a bad audition. And I left and I go, oof. We went to a diner next door to the club with my manager and had coffee. It was very depressing, like, wow, that was my, this, that was it. That was my audition for Saturday Night Live.

• 50:57Speaker 00

  Lorne Michaels, who's the creator of the show, was there. That was my big opportunity and I blew it. You know, let me figure, he goes, it'll be fine, let's figure it out.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  Went back to LA.

• 51:11Speaker 00

  They said, you didn't get it.

• 51:12Steven Bartlett?

  How did that feel?

• 51:15Speaker 00

  For some reason, at that point, I don't remember, I was a bit numb, I think, then. And I think I was on-

• 51:27Speaker 00

  I was starting to work on my act and really getting into stand up. And I just kind of kept thinking in my head, I have to get another shot. Another chance at auditioning or showing them what I could really do. Because that was just not the best that I could do. But it wasn't too long after that where I got another phone call from Saturday Night.

• 51:55Steven Bartlett?

  How old were you when you got that second call?

• 51:57Speaker 00

  Twenty three.

• 51:59Steven Bartlett?

  So I heard you'd said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25, you were gonna...

• 52:07Speaker 00

  I was gonna kill myself.

• 52:08Steven Bartlett?

  Were you actually?

• 52:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, I wrote that in something, in some journal or something.

• 52:14Steven Bartlett?

  You wrote what?

• 52:16Speaker 00

  If I don't get on Saturday Night Live by the age of 25, then I'll kill myself.

• 52:22Steven Bartlett?

  Did you mean that?

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did. But again, I knew that I was gonna be on Saturday Night Live. So I guess I didn't really mean it. Because I was gonna be on Saturday Night Live before I was 25.

• 52:38Steven Bartlett?

  So crazy.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just, I knew that I was going to be on it. So it wasn't really a threat.

• 52:44Steven Bartlett?

  So funny. Do you know what's funny is the, um, actually it's in my book behind there. There's a screenshot of my diary. And in the front page of my diary, it says, before I'm 25. And that has my goal written in the front of my diary. And I've published it in my book, which is on the shelf somewhere. Isn't that funny that I had the same thing where I'm like, before I'm 25 years old, I will have to do this?

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:08Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, and it's...

• 53:09Speaker 00

  And...

• 53:09Steven Bartlett?

  And it happened, thankfully.

• 53:11Speaker 00

  But did you think in your, when you were typing?

• 53:13Steven Bartlett?

  I didn't say I was gonna kill myself, but...

• 53:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't, I think I typed it out. But again, I was into computers. I think I typed it. I think it's on some file somewhere.

• 53:22Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  I think I said I would kill myself. But I definitely said, you know, uh... Yeah, 25 was my thing.

• 53:32Steven Bartlett?

  I started my first business at 12 years old and I started more businesses at 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18. And at that time, what I didn't realize is that being a founder with no money meant that I also had to be the marketer, the sales rep, the finance team, customer service and the recruiter. But if you're starting a business today, thankfully, there's a tool that wears all of those hats for you, our sponsor today, which is Shopify. Because of all of its AI integrations, using Shopify feels a bit like you've hired an entire growth team from day one, taking care of writing product descriptions, your website design and enhancing your product's images. Not to mention the bits you'd expect Shopify to handle, like the shipping, like the taxes, like the inventory. And if you're looking

• 54:17Steven Bartlett?

  to get your business started, go to Shopify.com/Bartlett and sign up for a $1 per month trial. That's Shopify.com/Bartlett. And you get the second call for the second audition around 23, 24 years old.

• 54:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. So then I said, do you want me to do the troll doll? And they go, no, we'd rather you not do the troll dolls because we've seen that or anything. Okay.

• 54:42Steven Bartlett?

  Was that the end of the troll doll?

• 54:43Speaker 00

  Well, that was my whole act. I don't have any, I don't have much more. That was, that's all I did was the troll doll act. So I'm like, what do I do? So I just kind of did the troll doll act under a guise of a different thing, where it's like celebrity charity or, you know, so, you know, I think it was a- How you doing? Here we go. You know, my mom always told me to, I guess a lot of, how you doing? To get some exercise. And so she used to say all the time, she'd say, "Why don't you go to the store with your mother?" Skinny kid. And I would say, I'd say, "Why don't you shut up?"

• 55:23Speaker 00

  That was the big, that was my big moment. That was the biggest moment for me. That was, that's crazy. That was the moment in the audition too, that changed everything. Cause I was doing a bunch of impressions. And before I did that, I'm so nervous, but now I'm on the actual stage and you're there. And the producer comes over and says, Jimmy Fallon. Yeah, come with us. They go, just to let you know, Lorne Michaels doesn't laugh. So don't let that throw you if you're doing your act. You go, great, thank you. And then they go, now go get a hair and makeup. I go, wow, how cool hair and makeup. I go, hair and makeup, they're doing my hair, they're putting makeup on me because they're broadcasting my audition to California. So that the heads of NBC can see.

• 56:05Speaker 00

  And the guy and girl doing my hair and makeup go, just so you know, Lorne doesn't really laugh in these auditions. So don't let that throw you. When I go, okay, yeah, so I heard, great, thank you. And go get your microphone on. So they're putting a microphone on me and a mic pack. And I'm like, and the audio guy goes, just a little advice, Lorne doesn't really laugh. So if you do your thing, I go, what is this guy's problem? Why isn't he not laughing? He's in the wrong business. I mean, this is in a comedy show. And so as I was doing that audition, I did an impression of Adam Sandler, which is what you just played. And I remember at the time, it was kind of new because Adam just left Saturday Night Live and no one was really doing Adam Sandler. And I was doing, you know, like, eh, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, eh, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, whatever.

• 56:50Speaker 00

  And I remember Lorne started laughing. And I go, that's cool. That's a cool story. Even if I don't get Saturday Night Live, but I just knew that. He started laughing, he put his head in his hand and he's laughing. And I go, that's a good story. I'll tell my kids, I made Lorne Michaels laugh on, on, on Saturday Night Live, on the set of Saturday Night Live. I wasn't really on the show, but I was on the set. And I remember doing that and feeling good about the audition. Like, I left that going, that went as good as it could go. Yeah, that was the best I can, that's the best I can give them. That was it. And I remember one of the producers, Marcy Klein, came up to me and said, grabbed my hand, she goes,

• 57:36Speaker 00

  Jimmy, that was fantastic. You gotta feel good. And I was like, and I just felt like, okay, if they're saying it and I go, I feel good. Then you didn't hear, I didn't hear back for a couple of weeks or whatever. It's like, it's crazy how long you wait. Cause you, and they go, look, we like Jimmy. We saw him at the comedy club. We were looking for a different direction, you know, for that audition. I think they hired Tracy Morgan. So they were going in a different direction, the first audition. But this one, they called, they go, Lauren wants to meet you and talk to you. He's gonna be out in LA. And he had an office on the Paramount lot. And so I drove into the Paramount lot, I gave my name to the front gate. It's a great, it's a great studio.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  It feels like you're in the business. I don't know if you've ever been to the Paramount lot, but the giant gates and it's a movie set and the gates open and you go to a parking spot and there's actors walking around. It just feels like you're in the business. And it's nerve wracking. I went into Lauren's office. He had like a, you know, some office on the, on the lot. And I remember going into his office and everything was white. And it kind of felt heavenly almost. And you're just like, and I sat across the desk from him and he goes, Jimmy, do you wear wigs? And I was like, oh, no, I just, I do this to my hair. I just spike it up. He's like, no, no, I'm saying like for characters and stuff like, do you, have you done characters like where you wear wigs and stuff?

• 59:00Speaker 00

  I go, uh, no. He goes, because we want you for the show. And I just think, you know, with more practice and if you try to do different, and as soon as he, whatever he was saying, I couldn't hear. The rest was slow motion. I was like, Oh my gosh, he just said I got Saturday Night Live. I did it. I got Saturday Night Live. It's happening. I couldn't believe it. And I go, okay. And I shook his hand. I go, I hope I make you proud. And I left and I think I pulled over to the first payphone I could get to and called my mom. I'm like, I just got Saturday Night Live. And it was like, wah, you know, you know.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  You know, it was just, it's crazy. The whole thing's crazy. I'm coming back to New York. Cause I'm gonna be on the show that I tried to be on my whole life. I did it. It's happening. And here we go. And it was like, wow. And I said goodbye to LA and my roommates and everyone was just so happy for me.

• 1:00:07Speaker 00

  And then I went to New York and got an apartment in Midtown. It was the greatest thing. And I took Saturday Night Live and went from there. Did a couple of movies. I met my wife. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. And then I didn't work for a while after the movies. And then Lorne asked me to be on, to host Late Night and replace Conan O'Brien. I did. I worked hard at that. And then I got asked to replace Jay Leno on The Tonight Show. And I did that and here I am. And now I'm host of The Tonight Show.

• 1:00:46Speaker 00

  Crazy life and crazy opportunities. And it's just so interesting and fun.

• 1:00:54Steven Bartlett?

  There was emotion in your face where you talked about getting SNL and calling your mom. It's so interesting that it's decades ago.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  You know, again, like, it's the end of Rocky. You know, it's the thing, it's like, I did it. It's like, yes. You know, you, you did it. That's insane. You, you, you gotta be kidding me. You, you, you, you did it. What we all said you were gonna do, but you went and actually, this is, it's crazy. It, it, it's, not many people get, do this. And I was like, yeah. And to talk to your mom, who's your biggest fan and always believed in you.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  You know, that's emotional and it's like, it's just, I, this is, how can this be? It's just, I don't know. It was just done, it's just, the whole thing's kind of crazy. It's, it's, it's amazing.

• 1:02:01Steven Bartlett?

  It's the anticlimax.

• 1:02:03Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:02:04Steven Bartlett?

  Because if you aim at that one goal and put it on a pedestal for that long in your life.

• 1:02:08Speaker 00

  No, it paid off. It was, everything was what I dreamt. It was crazy. Everything. The, the announcer, Jimmy Fallon, him saying my name. I was like, dreamt of it. He was really saying it. I could watch him. I enjoyed every second of it. Every bit. The internet was happening at the time. And then people started getting, sending me fan letters and then webpages. And it was just like, you started getting famous. And here's the New York City street I walked on not too long ago, being kind of afraid and intimidated. Now I'm walking and people are going, Jimmy. You know, and, and it's, and it's cool. And you go, yeah.

• 1:02:48Steven Bartlett?

  What weren't you prepared for?

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  Getting rejection, you know, getting your sketches cut, being told you're not funny. You know, haters. This is before Twitter and all that stuff, which is a different ballgame that I wasn't ready for either. But you, you think that it's just gonna be, oh, this is cool. Everyone would be great. But then these people, not everyone's rooting for you. You know, some people want you to fail. People's jobs are to take me down, you know, and, and to put bad press out and stuff. It's just, that's their job. And that's, and you're just like, ooh, I didn't think it was, I, I don't. Live in that world, I don't believe that it's real, but it kind of is real. And you go, oh, people are just gonna be mean.

• 1:03:36Speaker 00

  And you got, again, just toughen up and get through it and just keep your head down and keep being funny. And just keep doing things and keep, keep being creative and just, if you move that out, you realize it's not even real. It's not, it's, it's real, but it's noise. And it's just, it doesn't affect you. Uh, you can only believe in yourself and, and know that you have to keep going. And if you keep scoring, that will show, your work will show. That, that stuff I wasn't prepared for, of, of dealing with the overcoming that, you know?

• 1:04:09Steven Bartlett?

  Overcoming that?

• 1:04:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, overcoming like hating on you or, or, you know, saying you're not good or something. It's like, you, you don't think that's gonna happen. But it, you know, it, it will if you're successful. Cause someone will be like, uh, you know, uh, someone's not gonna like you no matter what.

• 1:04:32Steven Bartlett?

  As someone that's always trying to please, is that the antithesis of pleasing? For, for, for one's brain who is orientated towards making people happy?

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  The worst. Yes, it is the absolute worst. You're, I hate it. I, I want everyone to like me. I can't, I can't stand it. I go, oh my gosh. What can I do to make you like me? I, I think the answer is you can't. You can't make everyone like you. You just have to do what you do and do the best that you can at what you do. And be happy with yourself.

• 1:05:10Steven Bartlett?

  I mean, like, what's the, what's the alternative? The alternative is you, you quit, you.

• 1:05:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, you quit or you, you, you change you to be, I guess, what the person who hates you likes?

• 1:05:22Steven Bartlett?

  Someone else will just hate that.

• 1:05:24Speaker 00

  Then someone, yeah, the original people will, will hate that, that you changed and you go, oh yeah. I mean, I.

• 1:05:30Steven Bartlett?

  And then you'll hate yourself.

• 1:05:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, there's, I, I, I love music, but I remember like, I loved the Beastie Boys. Um, growing up and there's that one line, Mike D says like, um, be true to yourself and you will never fall. And it's like, kind of is the move.

• 1:05:49Speaker 00

  Just be that be true to yourself. Then there's no, everyone can say whatever they want. It's like, that's who I am.

• 1:05:55Steven Bartlett?

  How did you cope with that stardom? Being thrust into public spotlight? You're getting feedback from everywhere. You're getting the good, the bad, the ugly. You're someone that wants to please. Do you, did you seek any professional help? Did you get any support?

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  No, no, I just kind of lived through it and go like, yeah. I think I'll, I'll figure it out, you know? I think fame was fun, you know? It's, it's cooler. It's cooler than cool. It's like, wow, this is what I thought it would be. But it's also, at the end of the day, it's, it's the work and the, and the stuff that you do and the stuff that comes out of it where I'm most proud of, where I'm like, oh, I get to do this. I think this bit could be fun, you know? Like I remember we had Mick Jagger on the show and Lauren said Mick will do a sketch if anyone has an idea. And I go, I could do an idea where I'm the reflection of Mick Jagger in the mirror. And I'm like, you know, why, why don't you shut out that?

• 1:06:52Speaker 00

  And Lauren goes, please don't do that. Absolutely, please, please don't do that. He goes, it's been done. The Marx Brothers have done it. It's just Lucille Ball. It's just, it's been done. Don't, please don't do that. I go, okay. He goes, but go pitch Mick ideas. I go, I don't want to pitch him ideas. You're the producer. I'm nervous. I don't want, I didn't know Mick Jagger. He's like, just go in and pitch me ideas. So I wrote out like 10 ideas. I'm like, uh, hi Mick. He's like, he's very nice. And I go, um, you know, I was thinking maybe me and you, uh, I play, you play Keith and I'm you. And, you know, um, we work at a, you know, a sunglass hut or something like that. And he's like, nah, nah, don't really like that. I don't like that. And I go, uh, well, then I have this other idea, you know, where, you know,

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  you and I work in an ice cream shop, but we're, you know, blah, blah. And he's like, nah, nah, I don't really like that. I, I don't, no, I don't want to do that. And I go, all right. Um, and I'm going down the list and the ideas are getting worse and worse. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. And then at a desperation, I go, or we could do something where you come in your dressing room and I'm your reflection in the mirror. And you're like, why, why am I doing this shot? Done in seventies and done the eighties. And what, what am I doing that? What am I doing? And he goes, oh, I like that. And I go, so I go back to Lauren's office. I go, good news, bad news. Good news, Mick wants to do a sketch. Bad news is it's the mirror sketch. And so Lauren's like, okay. We'll do it. And we wrote it in a night, which has never been done.

• 1:08:22Speaker 00

  I don't think, when I was on the show, we wrote it on a Thursday night, rehearsed it once on Friday and did the show on Saturday. And it worked and it really worked. It was, might be the, one of the best sketches I was ever in. And Mick was so happy that he, like, was so giddy and he kind of shook my hand through the mirror, which is funny because we, I'm supposed to be his reflection. And it was just kind of cool. And I, I remember one of those things where I'm like, the room was shaking. And I go, that's cool. Like, dude, that's beyond what I dreamt I could do. You know, being outside alive is one dream, but now you, you're doing it, sketch with one of your rock idols, you know, and, and scoring. And it's great.

• 1:09:07Speaker 00

  It's really funny and everyone's having a good time. Like, you really think, but that's something, and it was, it wasn't meant to be. It wasn't written. It was all just kind of happened last minute and, you know, but those little moments all kind of add up and you go, oh, my gosh, this is so crazy that this is all happening.

• 1:09:24Steven Bartlett?

  How was that? I was looking before you arrived at all the people you've interviewed going back more than a decade. And it's just everybody. It's like Floyd Mayweather to, you insert the name of the person who's at the top of an industry. You've sat with them, they've been on your show. I was thinking like, how has that altered your perception of not just what fame is, but like what life is about? Because you've met the best of the best, the top of the top, the richest of the rich, the most famous of the famous.

• 1:09:52Speaker 00

  I'm interested, you know, in, in people, whoever it may be, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or, you know, Angelina Jolie or something. You go, you're talking to them, just like, talk to me about this thing or what? I, I don't know. It's like, also with my show, I got to jump right in. I have probably

• 1:10:11Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:12Speaker 00

  10 minutes? Interview? You know, which is you gotta get in there fast and you go like, I gotta make them comfortable and know that I'm not gonna make them look bad. I just wanna talk to them and go like, hey, blah, blah, blah. Or I'll make a thing, or I'll just say some joke, or I don't know what I'll do. And they're like, really? And then they'll be themselves and then you go, now it's flowing. And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you can get into the movie talk and, you know, you know, and sell the product or whatever, you know, which is whatever. But it's that first kind of five to seven minutes where you get in there and then you start playing with them. And you start like, if you can get a laugh out of Floyd Mayweather or something, it's cool.

• 1:10:56Steven Bartlett?

  How do you make them feel comfortable? Is this, you must have something that you have learned about what it is that makes someone feel comfortable?

• 1:11:04Speaker 00

  I don't know. I don't have an exact recipe. I will tell you that I go in before the show to their dressing room, say hello before the show.

• 1:11:11Steven Bartlett?

  Okay.

• 1:11:12Speaker 00

  And just to say hi, how's it going? And then I'll just talk to them. Sometimes I talk to them longer than the interview. Cause we'll get talking about something or life or some bit or, you know, you know, their parents or something, and just get into real life talk. And by the time they come out, they feel like we've already talked. So it's less pressure. I think also after sixteen years of talking to, I've seen everyone at their highest. I've seen everyone at their lowest. I've seen people date people they shouldn't date. I've seen people get married and have babies. And it's just really fun to watch. And it's fun to go back. And now, even if I see these people once a year, twice a year, I feel like I know them a little bit. And you're like, oh, yeah. Floyd, good to see you.

• 1:11:57Speaker 00

  What's up? Or Mick, you know, you know, how's it going? How's, you know, has your kids? You know, we can just talk. And we're caught up and you go like, oh, yeah. And it's kind of feels like, maybe it doesn't to them, but to me, it's, it's, it feels like I just saw them yesterday and that were. You know, even though it's probably, I haven't seen them in a year. It feels like I just saw you. You go, oh, yeah.

• 1:12:20Steven Bartlett?

  How do you stop it from getting old? And I say this because I am obviously have been doing this podcast now really for about four years. That's really, I consider the starting point when we started on YouTube. And I wonder what I've got to do to make sure that I never get bored of doing this.

• 1:12:36Speaker 00

  I don't think you ever will. There's just so many interesting people.

• 1:12:39Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:39Speaker 00

  There's so many people in this world and it's, it doesn't end. I mean, four years, I'm trying to think of where that was. That was around the end of late night for me. I mean, you're just, you're doing all the things. You're, you're just expanding. I mean, but you're working hard. I mean, you're, you're trying. I think just keep trying. If you stop trying, you get boring tomorrow. But here you are in New York with 10 cameras. And you're not in London. You're not in your kitchen. This is fake.

• 1:13:09Steven Bartlett?

  Don't, don't bring the illusion.

• 1:13:10Speaker 00

  This is fake. This wall's not real. This is not, this is, there's a light here. This is all fake. This is all a fake thing. This is how, this is how you don't make it old. You don't, you have to work. This is all, nothing here is real. This is all a studio, but that's how you make it not get old. This is, yes. But this is, I think how you make it exciting is you gotta put the work in. Don't get tired. You gotta show up and you, you always gotta show up. You gotta be there and you gotta be there for your audience. And you do that. You, you show up. You, you, you do all the stuff. I mean, you have to, and that's, like you said, it's kind of a seven days a week thing, but it's every day.

• 1:13:55Speaker 00

  You go, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? It just becomes part of your life. It's brushing your teeth. It's like, oh yeah, I guess brushing your teeth, someone at one point told me I had to do that. But now I do it every day, so I don't think about it. I brush them three times, four times a day now. I'm like.

• 1:14:12Steven Bartlett?

  How do you keep yourself challenged? Is there something that you're doing to push yourself? Because, you know, we expand around the world. We go to different places. We have increasingly more interesting, different guests and challenge ourselves in that way. But you, when I just looked at your show, I was like, he started with the biggest in the world.

• 1:14:29Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:14:29Steven Bartlett?

  And you started in the biggest city in the world.

• 1:14:30Speaker 00

  Start putting more pressure on yourself for any little challenges or trying something. And you go like, I've always wanted to put out a Christmas album, you know? And, and, and just come out with and, and write original songs, you know? Trying to write songs is hard enough. Trying to write 20 original Christmas songs? It's insane. And what's, what's, what hasn't been said? I have an idea for a kid's book that I think could be funny, you know? Yeah, Dada was the first one that was a big deal. It's really the same word on every page. It's just getting your kid to say dada.

• 1:15:03Speaker 00

  I thought that, no one's done this. So I go, basically, if you get to the end of the book, it's you saying the word dada so many times that I think your baby has to eventually just go, dada. So it'll work.

• 1:15:15Steven Bartlett?

  But then you released Mama.

• 1:15:17Speaker 00

  I had to because my wife.

• 1:15:21Speaker 00

  And, and all my female fans were like, really? You have two daughters and you're not going to write Mama? Because this is the real truth. Everything is Mama. So that's kind of the same book, except I changed it to you want the kids to say dada? And they just keep saying Mama.

• 1:15:36Steven Bartlett?

  I have a, found some wonderful photos of your childhood, which I adored.

• 1:15:41Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:15:42Steven Bartlett?

  These photos, you probably recognize quite a few of them.

• 1:15:45Speaker 00

  Did I post these? Where would you find these?

• 1:15:47Steven Bartlett?

  I went through your house.

• 1:15:49Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. This is my Catholic teacher, kindergarten teacher. That's Mrs. Fulling. That's Frank Gentile, we talked about earlier. And your friend Steve Tebaut. These are my dorm room friends. I would do stand up with Frank. And Steve was kind of the artist in the group.

• 1:16:08Steven Bartlett?

  Is that Gloria underneath? This is Gloria.

• 1:16:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's my mom. That's my mom in our kitchen. Where we spent many a time. We parted many times in that kitchen.

• 1:16:23Steven Bartlett?

  In November 2017, when she passed away, you said, as a tribute on The Tonight Show, which I watched, the best audience, you were referring to your mother that she was the best audience. She was the one I was always trying to make laugh. Mum, I'll never stop trying to make you laugh. And I heard you talk about squeezing her hand three times when you were younger and how squeezing yours back. In a fraction of like, public attention I've experienced, one of the things that acts as an insulator to all of that for me is knowing that I have a home to return to. And home for me isn't a place, it's people. You know?

• 1:16:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Steven Bartlett?

  And that's the thing that makes all of the noise feel fake and like it's not real.

• 1:17:05Steven Bartlett?

  And that there is something real. And so when I was thinking about all of that and you losing her and her being the audience, her being home for you. I I have to understand like how that changed you.

• 1:17:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's the toughest thing that I had to go through, I think. See, you know that it's going to come eventually, but it's just, it was just so sad because just she was so much joy in my life.

• 1:17:38Speaker 00

  I just miss her, you know? But you don't stop thinking about the people. You know? And you think about all these things and you look at all these other photos and you go, yeah, that was probably, she probably gave me the microphone. My mom was probably here, giving me the microphone. And when you think about people dying, especially when it happens for the first week, you go, I'm gonna forget about them.

• 1:18:07Speaker 00

  And I can't. And you go, oh, so sad. And then the truth is, it's just you don't. You don't forget about them ever. They will never. They're in your life. You think about them in the weirdest moments. And you'll hear a song and I'll hear like Duran Duran or something. I don't even know if my mom liked Duran Duran, but something reminded me of me and my mom. Listen, now think of my mom. Like, oh, my God, can't believe I'm listening to Hungry Like the Wolf or Rio. And I'm thinking about my mom and getting sad. But you do, you have those moments when it's like, but, but it's, it's more happier at moments. And you don't get that emotional, you know? If I, you know, want to, I can just start crying because I just miss her.

• 1:18:51Speaker 00

  But I, I, I think of the best times and, you know, I think I wouldn't be who I am with, without her, you know?

• 1:19:01Steven Bartlett?

  When you say that you miss her, you've said that a few times. What precisely is it that you miss?

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  She had a great sense of humor and she was always, you know, and I think there's so many things. Uh, talking about, probably talking about myself a lot. I'm going, did you see the thing I did? Or the thing, or I want her to bring it up. Like, that thing you did was great. And then it makes you feel good. So I kind of missed the positive reinforcement, the feedback, positive feedback of something that I did that I kind of miss. And her, you know, complaining about something or talking about something she doesn't like. I feel like that would kind of give me material. And I miss like, you know, calling on my birthdays and, you know, she's so much love. She just loved me so much.

• 1:19:52Steven Bartlett?

  I do worry about, I worry about this because I, I think sometimes we don't realize the importance of certain relationships until we lose them. And my parents are getting older. And I think I have some kind of like subconscious existential fear that.

• 1:20:06Steven Bartlett?

  There will be words unsaid, or I will, I will learn the hard way that there's things I should have said. You know?

• 1:20:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, you kind of, yeah, I, I think I said everything. I think I said everything.

• 1:20:18Steven Bartlett?

  Sounds like you spoke to her a lot.

• 1:20:19Speaker 00

  I, I did. I said everything. She knew that I loved her and, you know, it just, it kind of happened fast, which I kind of hope, uh, I, I think that was a good thing. I hope it doesn't happen slow for you. Cause I don't know if I could take that. This happened really quickly. And so I was like,

• 1:20:38Steven Bartlett?

  Are you able to grieve? Were you able to grieve?

• 1:20:41Speaker 00

  Yes, I went for it. My wife is really helpful with that. She was like, go for it. Just, you, just cry and just grieve because eventually you actually just have to stop crying. There's no way you can keep crying. There's no way. But you feel like there's a hole in your heart and a hole in your lungs. You feel unhealthy and you feel like, like you have to go to the hospital, that you're gonna die. You know, you just have to go through that and you go, and then you just, just get it out of your system and then,

• 1:21:13Speaker 00

  you know, as time goes on, you just start being able to laugh at the things, kind of happy memories. You know, and sad she's not here anymore, but

• 1:21:23Speaker 00

  glad for what she gave me. And when, all the memories, I mean, it's way outweighs the, the sad thing. I just wish she was around is the only thing. And if you harp on that, then it's too depressing.

• 1:21:35Steven Bartlett?

  Did it change your perspective on your own work? Cause I, it's funny. I, I remember thinking about my old business when it was like the, it was my entire life. I was thinking, if I lost this person in my life now, I don't know if my business would mean the same to me because in part I'm doing this for them.

• 1:21:52Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yes. You still do it for them.

• 1:21:58Speaker 00

  In a weird way, I still do this for my mom. I, I think of her when I do things. I go, she would be, she would be psyched. She would be proud. She would, that would make her laugh. I still think of her for most things I do. I go, she would love that. That would make her laugh. That would make her proud. She'd be like, oh, that's funny. Or that's, that's good that you did that.

• 1:22:21Steven Bartlett?

  Her loss, you turning fifty?

• 1:22:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Steven Bartlett?

  Putting all these pieces together, it seems like this might have inspired your increased concern and I guess drive for longevity and health. Cause we talked just before we started recording and I asked you what sort of front of mind for you at the moment. And one of the things you mentioned was longevity and health.

• 1:22:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43Steven Bartlett?

  When did that emerge?

• 1:22:46Speaker 00

  I maybe around, I mean, I'm 50 right now, but I think, you know, I think about my, my parents are, they were never healthy. You know, they used to drink a lot at the time they smoked, you know, when everyone smoked. I think there's a picture of my mom pregnant with me drinking and smoking, which is fantastic. I mean, gosh, terrible. But man, I turned out okay, right?

• 1:23:10Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:12Speaker 00

  Okay, did we? Listen to this back and like, yeah, maybe I didn't turn out, because maybe this is a lesson. But yeah, I think about being around for my kids and trying to be alive and kind of

• 1:23:30Speaker 00

  financially stable for my kids too. Cause I don't think my parents thought about any of that stuff. They just go, no, just have, it was a lot of fun and like a lot of support and like, that was a lot of the thing, you know? But they didn't really, they didn't work out. I think, I think we bought a treadmill twice, you know, different times. Just tried to make it something that we would all do and no one ever did it.

• 1:23:53Steven Bartlett?

  So what does that actually mean for you in terms of your longevity and health journey? Does it mean that you're, you're going to the gym, you're thinking about what you're eating?

• 1:23:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm definitely eating better. I'm, I'm work out when I can, you know, I walk every day. I love walking, but yeah, I try to, you know, I don't drink as much as I used to. And, you know, I, I get checkups, not that I'm unhealthy, but I think.

• 1:24:22Speaker 00

  You know, I just want to be around for a long time. I don't even know how long I want to live, to be honest. I don't want to be that old that I'm older than everyone. I mean, I want to have people my age. I don't want to be 130 and no one else is like, dude, that guy won't die. I mean, eventually it should happen. I just want to be, I want it to all happen kind of in the right way. And then eventually, as you get, you go on and they'll all pass away. But I want to be able to be enjoying everything now.

• 1:24:56Steven Bartlett?

  For anybody that likes matcha, for anybody that likes lattes, one of my companies has just launched canned matcha lattes. And I was speaking with the founder, Marissa, and she said that creating this product has been no easy feat. They tried launching in 2021, but as is often the case in business, the development process turned out to be extremely complex. So they've spent the last four years testing and refining every single detail to create this, which is a perfect Ted matcha vanilla latte and a perfect Ted matcha strawberry latte. So what we have here in these cans is barista quality matcha, straight from the can, and it tastes like it's just been made from your favorite cafe, naturally sweet and naturally creamy in a can. And the reason why I've invested in this company and I drink matcha

• 1:25:40Steven Bartlett?

  is because matcha as an energy source gives me lasting energy without the big crashes that I get from other products. Grab their ready to drink canned matcha lattes at Waitrose, Tesco's and Holland and Barrett and perfectted.com, where you can use code STEVEN40 for 40% off your first order.

• 1:25:56Steven Bartlett?

  Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never ever released and so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview and the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you want to join our private closed community,

• 1:26:40Steven Bartlett?

  head to the link in the description below or go to D O A C circle.com. I will speak to you then.

• 1:26:50Steven Bartlett?

  Is there a next chapter in your mind that you're looking at already? Are you thinking about life beyond TV? Media is changing so much. I mean, you were one of the sort of real pioneers that rode the shift towards the internet and digital. And you've got more bloody followers on YouTube and Twitter and Instagram than anybody. I think I've, I think you've got like a hundred million followers or something crazy. But are you thinking about the next wave of Jimmy?

• 1:27:19Speaker 00

  Not, not, not really. I feel like this is a good gig for that type of aging. I think the older you get, the kind of the better the talk show gets. Like, you know, Johnny Carson did it for thirty years, I want to say. And, you know, I think I can do it as long as there's an audience. And I feel like there is always going to be an audience. I feel like, I know everyone's like, TV is dying, you know, the ratings are dying. But I don't think it is. I think TV is just as powerful as it ever was. I think they're making some of the best entertainment, the best shows are on television. If you call it something else, if you call it Netflix, or if you call it, you know, a live podcast, whatever it is,

• 1:28:04Speaker 00

  you're still watching, you need entertainment. And thank God for entertainment, because you just find yourself when you're, when you're needing some outlet or creative or something, or even a break, whatever you want to call it, meditation, television is there for you. You, you can turn on television and watch a movie, watch a show, and you're like, ah, this is great. For an hour of my life, I don't have to think about my problems. I'm thinking about their problems, or I'm watching a reality show, whatever show you, it is you're watching. But your brain's moving. It's not like your brain's shut off. You're, you're listening to this podcast. It's not, you're not just zoning out going, you're actually thinking while you're listening to this. And this is changing the way you think.

• 1:28:49Speaker 00

  You may not agree that I think you might think, oh, television's over or whatever. But that's interesting. Still, your brain's moving. And this is fun for people to listen to. And this is, I think, entertainment is always gonna be there, has to be around. And I think it's, it's just in, it, it, it's moving this way and that way. But I still feel like eventually there's a screen in your house or wherever you're living that you're gonna wanna see things on. You know, whether it's gonna be through your eyeglasses or if it's gonna be through your, you know, contact lenses or your phone or whatever it is, you know. I don't think it's gonna be the Apple goggles, but they have to try.

• 1:29:31Steven Bartlett?

  Outside of TV, you're very busy. I was reading through your business portfolio and it's extremely extensive. You founded a production company.

• 1:29:39Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:40Steven Bartlett?

  Producing several shows, series, films. You made a comedy, a series of comedy albums.

• 1:29:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, the last one was called Holiday Seasoning, which I, it's a, it's a Christmas album. But I, I wanted to create like a new verb. Like, hey, we're all, we're all holiday seasoning. Like, are you holiday seasoning? I'm celebrating Hanukkah. I'm, you know, I'm celebrating Kwanzaa. We're all holiday seasoning. It didn't take off, but you know what? And maybe in the future, maybe, you know, 2050, people will all be saying, hey, are you holiday seasoning? You know, yeah, we're all, I don't know. I didn't, I don't know if I created what I wanted to on that one.

• 1:30:20Steven Bartlett?

  But you got the ice cream, the Tonight Dough.

• 1:30:23Speaker 00

  Tonight Dough Ice Cream. We've raised a lot of money for Serious Fun, which is a great charity. It's a great ice cream, by the way. But it's, it actually goes to a great cause, so it's win-win.

• 1:30:35Steven Bartlett?

  Beautiful. I was reading about it before.

• 1:30:37Speaker 00

  It's really cool, you know.

• 1:30:38Steven Bartlett?

  And outside of that, there's lots of other things from a ride at the Universal Studios to Spinnies to.

• 1:30:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, we got our own roller coaster, yeah.

• 1:30:46Steven Bartlett?

  Crazy. Gob, gobstompers game shoes.

• 1:30:49Speaker 00

  Yes, gobstompers were a sneaker that we came up with that the more you wear them, the more the leather wears down and they become different colors. So eventually every pair of shoes become.

• 1:31:05Speaker 00

  Unique to that person. There's no two pairs of the same shoe.

• 1:31:08Steven Bartlett?

  The through line here, Jimmy, is about making people happy. From rides to ice cream to creativity and the fun of the products that you've made. That's appears to be the through line.

• 1:31:20Speaker 00

  I like that. Yeah.

• 1:31:22Steven Bartlett?

  But that's the through line of your life in many respects. It's it's a really relentless attempt to to please others and to make people smile and to make them happy.

• 1:31:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do. I like that. I like making people happy. It makes me happy.

• 1:31:40Steven Bartlett?

  And now you've got two beautiful children.

• 1:31:42Speaker 00

  It's the greatest thing.

• 1:31:43Steven Bartlett?

  You're a dad.

• 1:31:44Speaker 00

  It's the greatest thing. I'm a dad. Can you believe that? This guy would be this guy would be a dad. This guy would be a dad. This is silly. And I I think I'm a good dad. They're the best kids. I love them so much. They're so fun. They're funny. They they make jokes. They're interesting. They're interested.

• 1:32:05Steven Bartlett?

  How did that shift the meaning of life for you, becoming a father? Because I hear I'm in the process of hopefully having children at some point. I'm trying.

• 1:32:14Speaker 00

  You I'll tell you one thing that surprised me. I don't want to tell you about your own kids because no spoilers. You're gonna you're just gonna figure it all out. And when they get to a certain age, we'll talk and be like, dude. And they go, yeah, of course. I didn't want to ruin it for you. It's it's great. It's a lot. It's great. But the one thing I didn't think I would happen to me is I like other kids more. I actually appreciate other kids. And they go, hey, are you not sharing with it? Or that kid's got no friends. Go talk to that kid. Because you go, that could happen to me, my kid. So you start thinking about other kids. Hey, no, no, no, be nice to him.

• 1:32:56Speaker 00

  Or he's, you know, it's like, and then the screaming baby in the restaurant that once, when you were younger, you go like, will you shut that baby up? Now you go, dude, give me the kid. I'll take the kid for a while. I will shut this baby. I understand what it's like to get out and be a parent and you don't want the kid to cry. And I understand. I get all that now. And you go, oh, I'm much more patient with that.

• 1:33:18Steven Bartlett?

  What advice would you give your two daughters for life? A life well lived. They said, Dad, listen, how do we how do we live a good life?

• 1:33:29Speaker 00

  Be nice to people.

• 1:33:33Speaker 00

  Give when you can.

• 1:33:38Speaker 00

  Make people smile.

• 1:33:41Steven Bartlett?

  What if they say, Dad, I want to know how to be successful?

• 1:33:48Speaker 00

  Then go do what you want to do.

• 1:33:52Speaker 00

  I think that will make you successful.

• 1:33:56Speaker 00

  Do what you want to do. If you do what you want to do, you'll be successful.

• 1:34:03Steven Bartlett?

  How are you misunderstood?

• 1:34:06Steven Bartlett?

  Because we're all misunderstood in some way.

• 1:34:09Speaker 00

  You know, maybe someone that laughs at everything. I don't really laugh at everything. I do have a good time, but I don't laugh at everything. I think one way I'm misunderstood is maybe people don't think that I know what I'm doing or that I, you know, I'm just living through life like I don't know what's going on, but I do know what's going on. And I do care and I put a lot of work into what I do. And I really put a lot of thought and care into things that I put out.

• 1:34:44Steven Bartlett?

  What does your gravestone say, Jimmy? If you could write it yourself?

• 1:34:50Speaker 00

  I would say

• 1:34:54Speaker 00

  he had a good time.

• 1:34:59Speaker 00

  That's not bad.

• 1:35:00Steven Bartlett?

  I like that.

• 1:35:03Steven Bartlett?

  Jimmy, thank you for doing what you do. It's so unbelievably apparent to me as someone that's just spent a little bit of time for you that in your heart, you are an incredibly pure, well-intentioned, happy, radiant person who has a really authentic desire.

• 1:35:26Steven Bartlett?

  To spread that to other people and in fact gains a tremendous amount of energy and happiness from making people like me and everyone that you met in my team behind the scenes happy. And we need more people like that in the world, especially in times like these where there's so much division and the internet is an absolute war zone. It feels like everybody's frankly losing, if I'm being honest, because everybody's just firing shots at each other on both sides of the aisle, but just generally just all sides of life. So it's wonderful to have people in the world and safe spaces and fun places that maintain a bubble of happiness and joy and humour. And you're one of those incredible spaces on the internet, but just generally in life as well. So thank you. It's such an honour to have spent time with you and you're someone that I've looked up to forever. You know,

• 1:36:10Steven Bartlett?

  you've been on screen for most of my adult life and I've, before I was interviewing people and I had the privilege of doing this. So you're one of my idols as well. And so thank you for that as well. It's been a tremendous honour. And I feel somewhat, it's incredible that I'm like in New York and I'm sat across from you. It's really something special.

• 1:36:25Speaker 00

  Keep doing what you're doing. You're great. You're fantastic. I had the greatest time. It was so fun. I want to say thank you to every camera. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

• 1:36:39Steven Bartlett?

  We have a closing tradition.

• 1:36:41Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:36:41Steven Bartlett?

  Where the last guest.

• 1:36:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:36:42Steven Bartlett?

  Leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for.

• 1:36:45Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:36:46Steven Bartlett?

  And we'll ask you to do the same. The question left for you is an interesting one. It was, how would your view of yourself change? And how would your behaviour change if you learned beyond doubt that reality is not objective, but exists only

• 1:37:06Steven Bartlett?

  in what you do and your actions?

• 1:37:10Speaker 00

  God, the edibles kicked in whoever wrote that one. It's a deep one. Jesus. I wouldn't be shocked.

• 1:37:20Speaker 00

  I wouldn't be shocked. I go, wow. I probably would take credit for it. I'd probably say, I knew that.

• 1:37:29Speaker 00

  And then you go, wait, what? You knew that? You go, yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if, if all of this was just my, based on what I'm doing. It's fascinating. If that's the real truth, how fascinating, what a great experiment this was. And I hope, I can't, I hope I passed. And again, I'm a people pleaser. Whoever is playing this game, I hope they're enjoying the game they're playing.

• 1:37:58Steven Bartlett?

  I sometimes think it's a simulation. We, we think we've like banned that as a conversation.

• 1:38:02Speaker 00

  And someone's playing us.

• 1:38:03Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, they're just like messing around. It would make sense.

• 1:38:06Speaker 00

  But do you, don't you think whoever's playing us is enjoying themselves? Like, we're, we're good characters.

• 1:38:11Steven Bartlett?

  Maybe they like started the game and they've like wandered off.

• 1:38:16Speaker 00

  And oh, no, it's like Toy Story. They don't play us anymore?

• 1:38:18Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, they just like, they're off to do things and they like forgot and we're like fucking around.

• 1:38:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then they go, oh, I didn't play that in so long. Jimmy Fallon game? Oh, good. This dude, this dude. No, we don't, I didn't play that game anymore. Yeah. No, I had him create a business.

• 1:38:31Steven Bartlett?

  But they forgot to turn it off.

• 1:38:33Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. But yeah, well, hopefully that you don't have to use, you don't have to play me anymore. I'm going to get to the next level.

• 1:38:40Steven Bartlett?

  You will. Jimmy, thank you.

• 1:38:42Speaker 00

  You're the best. This is so fun.

• 1:38:44Steven Bartlett?

  Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

• 1:38:47Speaker 00

  Thanks for having me in your, in your kitchen. Oh, my God. Really. I'd like to be done with the plans.

• 1:38:53Steven Bartlett?

  This has always blown my mind a little bit. Fifty-three percent of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So could I ask you for a favor? If you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us, the free, simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback. We'll find the guests that you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much.