Pod Insights Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! | Greek Mythology & the Ancient Mediterranean On the Nature of the Nile River (Herodotus The Histories Bk 2, Part 1) About this episode We are back to Herodotus folks, and here we enter the wonderful work of Egypt as understood by him. How's he gonna do? Who knows, we shall find out. Enjoy me struggling to be a person while recovering from an ailment, attempting to drink tea, and understand what this man is going on about concerning the Nile River.
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CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. I try to provide direct warnings when there is reference to anything with overtly traumatic themes but be aware that Greek mythology regularly features assault, death, and many other potentially triggering events.
Sources: Herodotus The Histories translated by Tom Holland.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Liv Albert? Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com grouptrip.
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2:14 Speaker 04 Hello all and welcome back to Let's Talk About Myths, baby! It's me, Michaela Pangarish, back to bring you some more delightful history content. We ain't going to the Hellenistic series, though, this time, so... Sorry about that. Don't worry, though, because we aren't done with all that stuff. We'll go back to another time. But this time, we're gonna head back to what we did, um, last September with Herodotus's histories. We finished up Book One last year with Cyrus and what was he, what he was up to, ending with his eventual death supposedly at the hand of the Mesopotamians, led by Queen Thomas. We love Thomas in this household. What an absolute delight of a woman with her wine skin filled with blood. But we are done.
2:59 Speaker 04 Looking at this point in time, Herodotus will eventually find his way back to continue the narrative, but first, we must go on quite a tangent, and what a wonderful tangent it is. Book Two is all about Egypt. Did you see that coming? Yeah, I did. But only because I've looked into this before and, well, I had to read it for all of you to get this done first, which I happily did, because, by God, is Herodotus a fun person to read. I spent all of last semester translating Herodotus in my Greek class and was given the delightful news that that is exactly who I'm going to be translating for the first half of this semester as well in Greek. We're gonna end this semester with Thucydides, um, but, you know, start with Herodotus and
3:43 Speaker 04 all his wonderful tangents. We're making our way through the story of Giggus right now. Remember that one? He was the guy who was forced by his king to look at his wife naked, and the wife had Giggus kill the king and Giggus became the new king? Thus, the family Chrysus was a part of, found the way to the throne. I'm rambling now. Herodotus would be proud of me. But that is all in the past, and we are moving on to the second book and looking at the history of Egypt as Herodotus presents it. So why don't we get into it?
4:28 Speaker 04 On the Nature of the Nile River, Herodotus the Histories, Book Two, Part One.
4:48 Speaker 04 Cyrus is dead now, and the Persian Empire must pass on to the next king in line. Now, that will be Cambyses, and he is on the throne. He is the son of Cyrus through Pharnaspius, who passed away early on. Cyrus mourned so much for her death that he even ordered all his subjects to join in on the mere mourning period. She was beloved by Cyrus, at least. And because of this, for some reason, Cambyses felt he had some right via inheritance to the Ionian and Aeolians living in Asia Minor. He felt they were his slaves, and when he launched an expedition on Egypt, not only did he take his own Persian troops, but he also took troops made up of these Greek subjects.
5:31 Speaker 04 Now on to the tangent, and it's gonna take us a while. We start with this story of Samaticus, or Samitic the First, the first pharaoh of the 26th dynasty of Egypt between about 664 to 610 BCE, which is surprisingly recent, but I digress. And also, as of note, I am trying to use the names found in Egyptian sources for these pharaohs and not these names that Herodotus gives us. Samaticus, ooh, can I even say that? Samaticus is the name that Herodotus gives us, but he goes by Samitic the First.
6:13 Speaker 04 Anyways, Herodotus tells us that before Samtik, the Egyptians felt that they were the first people of all. The original race of men. Yet, after Samtik, they could see that they are the second. This is because of a little experiment that Samtik did where he took two babies. And ordered a shepherd to keep them and have them rough, um, grow up amongst a flock of sheep. And to not speak a single word to them. Not to utter even a little bit to these young babes. They would be raised in isolation with the shepherd only allowed. Sipping goats into the hut from time to time to ensure that they had enough milk to not die. Because that's all infants need, of course. What do I know? I don't have children. But certainly, it must be this easy to ensure that they don't die.
6:58 Speaker 04 Well, this is what happened and two years went by without the children dying. Because they only needed goat milk to survive. I'll stop. I'm just saying this is a ridiculous assertion, but once again, what do I know? One day, the shepherd comes in and he hears the baby, baby's babbling, reaching up towards him, saying, "Beckos, beckos." The first time they did this, he ignored them. But it continued on, so eventually he went to Samtik and told him about this strange word that the children were saying. Samtik then went about trying to figure out what this word meant because, well, it was an Egyptian. And what he eventually discovered was that it was a Phrygian word that meant bread.
7:39 Speaker 04 Well, now the babies want bread. The milk simply doesn't cut it anymore. And because of this, he decided that this must mean that the Phrygians were actually the first people. So naturally, the Egyptians were second. Now, of course, we must believe this is true because Herodotus heard this from the priests of Hephaestus at Memphis. And while the Greeks tell a somewhat similar story that instead involves women and their tongues being cut out. Which is absolutely ludicrous, so the first one must be true. Herodotus's words, not mine.
8:14 Speaker 04 Herodotus then goes on to tell us all that after talking with the priests in Memphis, he makes his way to Thebes and Heliopolis because he wanted to see if the priests there agreed with what he had heard. Don't you know that the scholars of Heliopolis had the best reputation in all of Egypt? Silly listeners, well now you know. Oh, another fun fact Herodotus drops on us, the Egyptians have the better calendar. Yeah, you heard that right, calendar supremacy, woo. See, the Egyptians used calendar of twelve months made up of thirty days each. And so they only need to add five extra days into the year to ensure that the seasons keep right. The Greeks, however, need to add an intercalary month every other year to make sure things don't go to whack,
8:59 Speaker 04 which is just not very efficient. And this is very important information that we all need to know about. And please, for the love of God, do not ask me to explain the Greek calendar. I, I don't want to, I'm just gonna put it, Google it, Google it, you'll find enough information. It is complicated, it is confusing, and it is not efficient, and not worth it. But whatever. Herodotus then continues on his narrative by spending way too much time going over the geography of Egypt, which I am sorry, but I just can't. I mean, it's all in there, it's in the beginning of book two and, and could be interesting to those who find such things interesting and
9:42 Speaker 04 much respect to those who do, but it's not for me and it's just a whole lot of numbers. And like, like, dimensions and land features so that we can understand, stand the scope of land that Herodotus is talking about. But you know, you and I, all of us, we can just go with Egypt along the Nile. I think that's gonna get us by. He also makes some interesting comments on, I don't know, geographical environment change, it's not quite climate change, but change of environment for some one reason or another. See, he talks about a certain King Moeris, likely the pharaoh, ooh, and I, I really must apologize for my pronunciation, I know the Greek well.
10:27 Speaker 04 Don't really know Egyptian words well, but here we go. Likely the pharaoh Amunemhat III for the construction of a canal which connects the Nile with the Fayum Oasis. Or as the Greeks call it, Lake Moeris. See, in the time of Amunemhat III, the Nile only had to raise about twelve feet to flood the land. But now, in Herodotus' times, it needs to rise at minimum twenty-four feet to flood. Amunemhat reigned in and around the nineteenth and eighteenth centuries BCE, so that's like a thousand plus years before Herodotus. He goes on to comment that the Greeks would be right fucked if there just happened to be no rain.
11:09 Speaker 04 And that they would likely be wiped out by famine because nothing edible could grow. This is what the Egyptians say to Herodotus, and Herodotus doesn't disagree with it. Um, he agrees that this could happen, but oh, wait, he's no, he's not interested in the Greeks today. He is interested in the Egyptian, and they're the ones we're going to be staying focused on here. Herodotus, get it together. He speaks much about how the Nile is so important to the Egyptians and makes their lives significantly easier. In some regions, there is difficulty because of the rising levels of the silt from the river. But in other regions where there is still significant flooding, well, that just makes things so much easier. In these regions, the farmers barely have to work.
11:52 Speaker 04 They simply wait until the water floods, irrigating and breaking up the soil. And once the water has retreated, they head out and sow the fields. They then release their pigs, who while walking about, manage to get the seeds all nice and deep into the soil. And when it's time to harvest, they simply release the pigs again, who somehow manage to thresh the grain. I'm taking this at face value. And then the farmers simply come in and sweep up all the produce. That's, you know, taking out of context. Well, we are blessed with modern science and knowledge. The water there is, uh, the water there, the land there, the soil there is extremely productive and very good for growing crops in.
12:33 Speaker 04 Now on to what Herodotus says the Ionians say about the Egyptians. Well, the Ionians claim that Egypt is an entirely different area. Okay, well, no, okay, not entirely different area, a smaller area. And once again, this is a whole bit about geography, but honestly, from what I can understand, the Ionians say that Egypt is just the delta. That's it. The other regions belong to either Libya or to Arabia. Herodotus and the Egyptians claim that Egypt is more than that and extends further, which he has decided is more credible because I don't know, it makes sense to him. I actually have to agree with him here. I, I think it is more than the delta, but whatever. I, I,
13:17 Speaker 04 I'm okay with this part in Herodotus. I'm gonna believe him. I trust him. Okay, moving on. At the end of it all, Herodotus merely states, and I quote, Egypt constitutes the entirety of the land that is inhabited by the Egyptians, which is like, uh, thank you, Herodotus. We definitely needed that clarification. And, you know, it, it really, it really wraps all this point up very well. Regardless, Herodotus feels, uh, like Egypt spans a large space of land. And he feels this is backed up because of the oracle of Amun, which he learned about only after he made up about his mind on the matter. See, two towns that are on the border of Libya, Maria and Apis,
13:57 Speaker 04 decide that they did not like a certain Egyptian taboo, this taboo of not poaching a cow. They decided to go ask the oracle of Amun if they could just, I don't know, not care about this taboo? Because they felt that they themselves were not Egyptian. Well, the oracle was like, nah, uh, uh, you guys are Egyptians, so you cannot touch a cow. See, because how it works is that anywhere that is touched by the floodwater, so says the oracle, from the Nile is Egypt. And anywhere north of the elephantine that drink from the river is also Egyptian. So, gotcha. Don't touch a cow. Right, back to the flooding.
14:38 Speaker 04 Herodotus has talked quite a bit about the flooding that happened in Egypt and he hasn't actually gone into depth of what that looks like. Only that it happens all over the place and is quite a bit of help to farmers, which is great, but you know, more please. So he starts with clarifying that the flooding happens not only in the delta, but all up and down the Nile into lands that are identified as not just Egyptian, but Libyan and Arabian as well. Herodotus is continuously fascinated by the Nile and its flooding. He goes to priests and all kinds of people to try and get to the bottomless, the bottom of the Nile.
15:14 Speaker 04 That's not a funny joke at all, actually, and I'm a little ashamed of myself. And I need to take a sip of tea because my throat hurts, so give me a moment. Ah, hot tea. Herodotus is fascinated that during the summer solstice, the Nile floods so heavily downstream and does so for days and days on end. And then at the end of all these days, hundreds of days, it simply recedes again. And he has no idea where this water goes at all because at some places, the Nile is so shallow that one can easily walk through it during the winter months. He is straight baffled and yet he has no answer. Everyone he asks about this simply goes, yep, yep, that's how the Nile be.
15:59 Speaker 04 Poor Herodotus, he is so stumped by this river and he never gets a single answer. Yet he does go on to tell us about some Greeks that have posited some thoughts on the Nile and the way that it behaves. Two of them he doesn't really want to mention, but he progressively does so in order to just, I don't know, lay out some ideas. I'm gonna be so honest, he hates all of these ideas. But whatever, he tells it to us regardless, so thanks, I guess. He doesn't seem to care much for these guys. The first Greek says that the Nile floods because of winds from the northwest that blow so hard that it makes it impossible for the river to flow into the sea. This, Herodotus says, is silly, because even when the wind is not blowing, it still behaves the same.
16:44 Speaker 04 And also, there are other rivers with such winds around and they continue to flow as they do. The second Greek suggests that the river flows such because the water flows in from Oceanos, and that the flow of Oceanos goes around the entire world. Oceanus? Oceanos? Sorry, I have Greek pronunciation in my head. Whatever. This, Herodotus says, is straight stupidity. Hogwash. Bullshit. Now, we get to the third and final Greek that posits on the nature of the Nile. This one, Herodotus tells us, is the farthest from the truth, which is amazing because the first two reasons were so good. This isn't about me, or my own opinions, you know, this is Herodotus.
17:25 Speaker 04 The third Greek says that the flooding and currents of the Nile are derived from melting snow. Which, okay, you know what, I get why Herodotus finds this dumb, because he goes on to say that the river flows from Libya and through the land of the Ethiopians before it even enters Egypt. And how could it be from snow if it's so hot there? Okay, fine, that's fair, let's be so for real, though. All these reasons are silly. But once again, I have modern science and knowledge on my side, so I don't think I actually get to judge any of these men. He goes on to claim that this is especially hogwash because of three reasons. One, the winds that blow from this region are hot. So that region is hot.
18:07 Speaker 04 Two, everyone knows that these countries don't know about rain or frost. And everyone knows that five days after it snows, it is bound to rain. We all know that, right? Right, Canadians? It always rains five days after it snows. I know this, you know this, we all know this. And his third reason for why this is silly is that, and I quote, these are not my words, "So scorching is the region that the people who live there are black." Yep. Yep, that's what Herodotus said. Also, he's like, "Birds are there, y'all, all year, they can't get cold." But that's not a part of the official list. He goes back to the guy with the Oceana's theory and just goes in on him. He finds it
18:49 Speaker 04 to be a pretty convenient theory since it literally cannot be proven. One cannot examine this theory and for that reason, it is unbased and Herodotus doesn't like it. What a cheap theory he thinks that guy has. No one can prove or disprove it. And because of that, he has decided that it simply cannot be true. He himself doesn't know of any river Oceana's and suspects that only Homer or some other early poet can say, because they must have come across the name at some point and written it down in their verses. And now, dear listeners, we shall have a brief ad break before Herodotus tells us his theory on why the Nile behaves the way that it does.
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21:44 Speaker 04 So, Herodotus has his own theory on why the Nile be the way that it is. You see, it all starts with the sun. During the winter months, the sun is driven by storms from its regular course into the land of the Libyans. And because Libya is the land closest to the sun god and thus immediately underneath the sun, it will then gasp for water more than anywhere else. During the winter, the sun is most heavy over Libya and draws up the water from the land and forces it further inland where the winds then take it and scatter it about causing rain. Then as winter moves along and the storms grow smaller, the sun goes back to its usual course and pulls up water from everywhere at an equal rate.
22:27 Speaker 04 Some rivers are then fed by this and flood greatly, but not the Nile. No, you see, the Nile is never fed by rain and also has evaporation from the sun. And because of this, it is much more shallow in the winter. So he concludes that in the summer, the waters are being taken by the sun, such as with everywhere else. And then the winter is also experiencing evaporation, but nowhere else does.
22:50 Speaker 04 If that makes sense to you, then good for you, you get a cookie because I'm just still sitting here going, okay? Okay, Herodotus, I still don't understand what you were trying to tell us, but you know, let the man live, he's doing his best. Or did his best, he's dead, whatever. So now we must discuss the source of the Nile. Herodotus himself was unable to find anyone who could say what it was for certain, except for one man. This man was from Cyas in Egypt and was a temple clerk. Herodotus says this man was pretty sure what the source of it all was, but in the end, he felt that he was actually pulling a joke on him. So, you know, at least we get the story. He says there are two mountains with sharp peaks named Crophi and Mophi,
23:34 Speaker 04 and they lie between the cities Cyrene and Elephantine. Within the valley that these two mountains makes is a wellspring of the Nile, which has no bottom. Half of the water flows into Egypt in the north and into Ethiopia in the south. The man says the king Samedicus, or you know, Samtech the first, who found a way to test the depth of the wellspring. He lowered a specially made rope which never reached the bottom. Herodotus feels that all this proves is that the water is especially tumultuous. And because of this, the rope was beaten around so much that it never ended up reaching the bottom. Herodotus was unable to find out anything more credible from people around him, so he did the ownable reason, only reasonable thing,
24:15 Speaker 04 and went to find out for himself. He started by traveling to the city of Elephantine, and from there he went upriver. The land steepened so much so that any who passed beyond tied ropes to their boats, one to each bank and continued on as such. This sailing goes on for four days, and the Nile twists and turns just as much as the meander does, which is where we get the verb to meander, meandering, a meander, and ooh. You know what? Fun etymology break, sorry. This is me just being excited about words. So the meander is a river, uh, that is in Asia Minor. Um, it's an old river, a very, very old river, and as rivers flow, they pick up like the land and the silt from either, either side of their banks.
24:59 Speaker 04 Which kind of like extends the course um. It makes twists and turns for the river. I could be explaining this better. I'm a historian kinda. You know what? You get what you get from me. Well, as time goes on, the river slowly changes course. And they get these large sweeping curves in in them, which makes the river significantly longer than it than it originally should have been. Um. So then to travel by the river, it would take a significant more time because of all these back and forths. Thus, meandering. It isn't that fun. Anyway, there's my one herodoty and tangent for the day. Back to the source of the Nile.
25:41 Speaker 04 After you have traveled upriver from Elefantine, one will come across an island known as Tecompso. Half this island is occupied by Egyptians, the other half by Ethiopians. Beyond the island, there is a lake. Move past this and you continue on in your journey up the Nile. Now, one must leave their boat and continue on foot for forty long days. See, there's a lot of sharp rocks in the river and it would just fuck your boat right up, so it's not economical or safe to sail anymore. But after the forty days, you can get on another boat and travel for twelve days, where you will then come across the city of Merowe, the mother city of Ethiopia.
26:20 Speaker 04 Herodotus says that the only gods that have cults here are Zeus and Dionysus, which is cool and interesting. And what does this mean? Because obviously it couldn't actually be Zeus and Dionysius, but you know, gods that a Greek man would then associate with Zeus and Dionosis and Dionosis, Dionysus. And oh my god, can someone come on and talk about ancient Ethiopia? Can we have that? Please? There's even an oracle here to Zeus, and the people of Merowe use this oracle to help them make decisions on military matters. How fun. But now we must leave Meroe. It was a fun Sujourn, but a Sujourn nonetheless. Eventually, you will come to a group of people called the Deserters, or Asmakh, which means those who stand on the left hand of the kings.
27:04 Speaker 04 Apparently, these are Egyptian warriors who at one point went off to Ethiopia for... Oh, oh, look, an actual herodity in Tangent. Great, here we go. So this was during the time of Samtech I. There were many border posts, the different regions that surrounded Egypt, and they were heavily staffed by various soldiers. And at some point, after, you know, they were first staffed, three years, he says, "The Egyptians decided to leave because no one ever came to give them a break." Unionize, boys, unionize. They march off towards Ethiopia. Samtech eventually hears about this and heads off to get them back. He finds them and speaks to them. "Where are you going? Why are you deserting your children and wives? Don't abandon the gods that your fathers worshipped."
27:47 Speaker 04 To this, one of the men just whips his dick out and says, "Wherever this goes, there will be children and wives." And they simply fuck off to Ethiopia. And can I just say, I know this sounds funny, but this is actually an incredibly violent thing to say. Like, I understand how it can be silly on first listen, but when you think about the implications behind it, it's literally saying that wherever he goes, he will make a wife and children. And sure, this can be done in the consensual way, but what if there is no one who wants to, you know, consensually do this with him? What then? Violence. Anyways, they get to the Ethiopian king and offer their services to him. He takes it and offers them a gift in return.
28:28 Speaker 04 See, somewhere off from Meroe, there is a rebellion, the Bokout. And if these soldiers could just go and deal with that, they could settle on that land as they wished. And this is how the Egyptians made their way into Ethiopia. And then, well, Jesus Christ. Okay, so Herodotus... says this, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna quote it, just so we can all hear this and just remember that sometimes there is some bullshit. So he says, so it was that the Egyptians came to live cheek by jowl with Ethiopians, who absorbed their customs, which served to rent them a good deal more civilized. That's fucked. That's an ancient xenophobia right in action. Sorry, y'all, we're getting another tangent from me, it can't be helped.
29:12 Speaker 04 This is one of those topics that I end up thinking way too much about, so we have all heard that racism doesn't exist in antiquity, which is like, sure, okay, true, but there is significantly more nuance to it than just that. Racism as we know it within the modern day was something that was created as a result of the transatlantic slave trade, essentially, in order to justify what was happening. See if by, air quotes here, black people were by nature slash genetics different than European people, then it was okay for the European people to enslave them. And this doesn't just go for African people, but also Asian people and the indigenous Americans people from both the north and the south.
29:55 Speaker 04 If they are in some way genetically different, which showed up through appearance, such as skin color and skull shape and various other bullshit, then it was okay for them to be treated like absolute shit. Which, you know, not fucking true. Just gonna have to say it, but anyways, in antiquity, racism wasn't quite the driving force. It wasn't about skin color, really, or, or big, you know, morphological differences, I guess, if you want to use sciencey words. Which mean, and let me be clear, absolutely fucking lutely nothing. It was more about where someone was from, their culture and how they acted. This is where we get into the barbarian, barbarianism of it all.
30:37 Speaker 04 These people are different because they wear pants and don't water down their wine, and because of this, they are inherently different, yet they can learn. There, there's still heavy bias and bullshit that goes around, right? This is a different kind of racism. It's not racism as you know, people of color experience today.
31:03 Speaker 04 It's just different, but still bad and still just as bad. People use this idea of barbarianism to justify their power hunkaways. Cough cough, Roman Empire, just as people today are using racism, antisemitism, modern xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, misogyny, etc., etc., etc. to justify their own bullshit. The list goes on. This is a human thing and it is a bullshit thing and we are better and we are beyond it. Moving on, let's just go back to Herodotus. I could go on for ages. It doesn't need to happen. But by seeing this in Herodotus's own narrative, it gives us a chance to understand Herodotus's
31:46 Speaker 04 own bias. He is not immune to this kind of bullshit. And at the end of the day, he is a Greek man from Halicarnassus, who has his own beliefs that are powered by culture. And in this way, a pretty shitty way, let's be clear. Right. Herodotus is on a mission of finding the source of the Nile. From this, he is able to discern that the Nile flows for a good four months' travel from by both water and land beyond when it enters into Egypt. It's a big river, y'all. Did you know?
32:16 Speaker 04 Where we meet up with the deserters, the Nile flows from the west and no one knows what goes on beyond that because it is simply too hot and so no one goes there. But that is not all that Herodotus has to say about the origin of the Nile. He has another story to share. One day, he came across a group of Kyrenian men who had made their own little expedition to Ammon to talk to the oracle. While there, they happened to cross the Ammonian king named Etiarchus, and the topic of the Nile's origin just happened to pop up. He tells them about a time when some Nassemonians, a group of people from Libya, who came by Ammon one day and spoke with him. He asked them about the deserts of Libya and they told him the story of some of the sons of chieftains there. See, at this point, the
32:59 Speaker 04 people knew the land pretty well, but there was still, you know, an extent to the knowledge, a barrier. There was a point they had not gone past. There had to be more to know, and these young men now wanted to make a name for themselves as young men are often want to do. They went on various escapades and did various wonderful things, but one thing they never did was go beyond their known world at the time. And now it was time for that. So they cast lots to see who would go out and find out more. Five were chosen, and so they were sent off with lots of water and food to get them by. The first bit of the travel took them through lands already known to Libyans. Nothing of interest here, at least nothing that wasn't already known by the Libyan people.
33:43 Speaker 04 The next leg was into the land that was mostly inhabited by wild animals. They made their way through this as well, and finally they started making their way across the desert with the westerly wind blowing into their faces. They walked for ages, and ages and ages in the desert landscape didn't seem to change at all. There were no trees, no shelter, nothing, it was just desert. But one day, in the distance, they saw some trees in a plain. They kept going until they reached the trees, and once they reached the trees, they tried to pick the fruit that were growing from them. And when this happened, pygmies, who are people but shorter, I just, this word makes me uncomfortable. I don't know what it means, and I don't think it's good. I don't even know. Anyways, people who are shorter.
34:27 Speaker 04 They rushed upon them and took them away. They couldn't understand these people, Herodotus says that the noises made by their captors were totally incomprehensible, which just means that they didn't speak the same language, but sure, you know, make it weird, whatever. The Nazimonians were led across Martians until they eventually entered a city full of people the same height as their captors. And there was also a huge river that flowed through the city where crocodiles could be seen.
34:55 Speaker 04 This pretty much ends the story. The men are taken to the city, and they are eventually let go, and they make their way back. They also say that these people were sorcerers, which is a delightfully fun fact, and would be great if we could get more from that, but of course, we won't. We have to move on. What did these people do that made them sorcerers? I don't know. Herodotus doesn't say, just that they're sorcerers. Thanks, Herodotus. Well, from the description of the river, Herodotus decides that this is the Nile. And because of this, the Nile must flow all the way through Libya. He decides that its length must be the same as the Ister, another river which flows through Europe, which we also call the Danube. Woo, fun. Apparently, the Ister's source is in the Pyrenees, beyond the Pillars of Heracles, or the Strait of Gibraltar.
35:40 Speaker 04 Then it flows to the middle of Europe, until it makes its way into the Euseinian, or the Black Sea. It empties into the Black Sea at a city called Istria, or Histories, which was a Greek colony that was founded by Mylesian settlers in the 7th century.
35:54 Speaker 04 Herodotus says that the only reason we know so much about the Ister, the Danube, is because the banks are so well-settled. It's a well-trodden river, a well-sailed one. But because of the environment of Libya, you know, it's just too hot, it just is impossible for anyone to fully plot its course. Which sounds like quitters talk to me. Once again, what do I know? Herodotus is done with the Nile now. We don't need to know anymore about this river from him. Don't ask. He's done. But, he's not done with Egypt. Oh, no, no, no, there is so much more about Egypt to talk about, because it is a land full of wonders. And remember what he said right in the beginning of his Histories? Herodotus, Halaquinaceos, Histories Apodexis Hede,
36:38 Speaker 04 Hoss mete, ta genomena ex Anthropopon, tojono, exite la genetai. Mete erga megalate caithomasta, ta men elisi, ta de barbarusi, apodexthen ta, a clae genetai, ta te ala caidien, aitien, epulmesen aleloisi. This is the publication of Herodotus of Halaquinaceos's inquiry. So that the feats of humans may not be lost by time, and that great and wonderful works, some accomplished by Greeks, some by foreigners, may not be without fame. And all other things, and the reasons for which they fought each other.
37:21 Speaker 04 We aren't done yet, folks. We still need to talk about the great and wonderful works of Egypt. And of course, the feats of humans.
37:41 Speaker 04 Well, everyone, we have made our way through the first bit of Book Two of Herodotus's Histories. I've never actually read the entirety of Book Two of Herodotus's Histories. Actually, never read the entirety of the Histories altogether, but I'm doing it all for you and I'm actually having a blast. I knew that Book Two was all about Egypt, but I never got into the nitty gritty of it all and now it's quite fun to see what he actually has to say. There's some fun conjecture about environments, some ancient racism and other bullshit, and the oh so wonderful tangents that we all know and love from this man. Next week, we shall continue with Book Two and we will find out a little more about Egypt. And until then, I will keep reading Herodotus and translating Herodotus in class.
38:26 Speaker 04 Not for you guys, I will not give it to you, I don't like it. But it has been fun, I'll just say that. As someone who's been translating this stuff for just, you know, not for funsies, it has actually been fun. He is pretty funny and sarcastic and so, you know, like the times where he goes, "X person is stupid", like that's actually what he's saying. He literally just goes, "This person's dumb, this idea is dumb." He loves to call a dude stupid and I respect that. Don't know if he'd like me calling him stupid at times, but honestly, I think he could get into it to some degree. Who knows? I don't, I just know what I like to be. Alright, well, I'm gonna head out and I hope you all enjoy this episode and
39:08 Speaker 04 while you do sit there and listen to it, I will be getting an ADHD assessment and hopefully that will actually help me become a functional person because, oh boy, does that sound nice anyways. Here we go. Let's talk about "Myths's Baby" is written and produced by Liv Albert, who has basically done a book and it's fun and delightful and we are so happy for her. Let's celebrate Liv, yay! Michaela Pangouish is the Hermes to all you Olympians, the producer. Done with 2026 and it's been like three weeks. I hope you all cannot relate. Select music by Luke Chaos, thank you, Mr. Chaos. The podcast is part of the Memory Collective Podcast Network, a collection of creators that all strive to bring you accurate and reliable information on the ancient world.
39:51 Speaker 04 These include The Wonderful Friends at Movies We Dig, The Partial Historians, Sweet Bitter, and so much more. Get ad-free episodes and much more by subscription to the Oracle Edition on Patreon at patreon.com/mitsbaby or via the link in the episode's description. Are you a scholar, or academic, or some other expert in something from antiquity, from Greece, Rome, Egypt, or anywhere in the nearest, really? We would love to have you on the show as a conversation guest. Go to mythsbaby.com/contact and fill out our podcast guest form. We want to hear from you, so reach out. All the best to you all. See you next week to continue Herodotus's fun and wacky adventures in Egypt. I need to drink my tea. Bye-bye.
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Previous Conversations: Celebrating Imperial Violence, Roman Triumphs and Triumphal Arches w/ the Partial Historians Next RE-AIR: Conversations: There’s Much to Do, and Many Unknowns On the Horizon… Herodotus in Egypt w/ Dr Kate Minniti Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated