#199: America's Contingency Corps - XVIII Airborne Corps Commanding General Lieutenant General Gregory Anderson

Modern warfare is no longer defined by who has the biggest force, but by who can adapt the fastest. The battlefield is changing in real time through artificial intelligence, autonomous systems, cyber capabilities, and the speed of information. But even in the most advanced operating environments, victory still comes down to disciplined leaders, trusted teams, and soldiers prepared to make decisions under pressure when everything is on the line. The responsibility for America’s rapid response to any crisis belongs to the Army’s XVIII Airborne Corps. From their headquarters at Fort Bragg, NC, Fran Racioppi https://www.linkedin.com/in/francisracioppijr/ sat down with Lieutenant General Greg Anderson https://home.army.mil/bragg/7117/3990/8409/Lieutenant_General_Andersons_BIO.pdf, Commanding General of the XVIII Airborne Corps https://home.army.mil/bragg/units-tenants/xviii-airborne-co, to discuss how he is preparing America’s Contingency Corps for combat in an increasingly dangerous world. Leading more than 80,000 soldiers across the 3rd Infantry Division, 10th Mountain Division, 82nd Airborne Division, and 101st Airborne Division, and other subordinate commands, LTG Anderson explains how the Corps balances readiness, speed, and innovation while maintaining the fundamentals that have always defined military success. Our conversation explores the role of Noncommissioned Officer, the importance of mastering the basics, and why leadership development remains America’s greatest asymmetric advantage. We also discuss the integration of conventional and special operations forces, the concept of compound warfare, and the difference between interoperability and true integration on the battlefield. LTG Anderson breaks down the Corps’ push toward innovation through initiatives like the Joint Innovation Outpost and experimental exercises that incorporate artificial intelligence, machine learning, and data-driven decision-making into operational planning. But even as technology changes warfare, he makes one thing clear; there must always be a human in the loop. Highlights 0:00 Introduction2:17 Welcome to the Jedburgh Podcast4:01 The role of XVIII Airborne Corps9:57 Empowering NCOs14:58 Joint Innovation Outpost19:00 Speeding the Acquisition Timeline22:53 Keeping A Human in the Loop25:41 Integration vs Interoperability29:13 Guiding the Tactical Level Leader32:48 Compound Warfare Today37:22 Generational Warfighting Differences42:00 The XVIII Airborne Corps Formation45:04 Daily Habits Quotes “What operational problems do they expect us to solve for them?”“If I’ve got a strong team…we’ll typically prevail.”“Certainly what I’ve learned of any value has come from non-commissioned officers that raised me up.”“The role of the non-commissioned officer is to become the technical tactical experts in the application of violence at the tactical level.”“What are we doing to get the NCO corps to that point where they are the Army?”“How do we use advanced computing to allow us to make decisions more informed and faster than our opponents?”“The advantage of war fighting is not replacing humans with machine decision making. It’s now creating superhumans that are enabled by it.”“Interoperability is our ability to work together in an efficient, effective manner.”“Compound Warfare is the blending of regular and irregular capabilities to create a host of dilemmas for your enemy.”“You’ll never be able to tell that tactical level leader when things are going to change and shift if you haven’t done the operational level rigor.”“My role as the general is not to solve the problem or be the hero that comes in, but to think and understand the problem we’re trying to solve.” The Jedburgh Podcast is brought to you by OneBrief; https://www.onebrief.com/ enabling military leaders to make innovative, informed and deliberate decisions faster than ever before. Superhuman command wins wars. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast https://www.instagram.com/jedburghpodcast/ and the Green Beret Foundation https://www.instagram.com/greenberetfoundation/ on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform https://pod.link/1558608802, read on our website https://greenberetfoundation.org/the-jedburgh-podcast/, and watch the full video version on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@jedburghpodcast as we show why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Fran Racioppi?

  Modern warfare is no longer defined by who has the biggest force, but by who can adapt the fastest. The battlefield is changing in real time through artificial intelligence, autonomous systems, cyber capabilities, and the speed of information. But even in the most advanced operating environments, victory still comes down to disciplined leaders, trusted teams, and soldiers prepared to make decisions under pressure when everything is online. The responsibility for America's rapid response to any crisis belongs to the Army's 18th Airborne Corps. From their headquarters at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, I sat down with Lieutenant General Greg Anderson, commanding general of 18th Airborne Corps, to discuss how he's preparing America's global response force for combat in an increasingly dangerous world.

• 0:46Fran Racioppi?

  Leading more than 80,000 soldiers across the 3rd Infantry Division, 10th Mountain Division, 82nd Airborne, and the 101st Airborne, as well as other subordinate commands, Lieutenant General Anderson explains how the Corps balances readiness, speed, and innovation while maintaining the fundamentals that have always defined a military success. Our conversation explores the role of the non-commissioned officer, the importance of mastering the basics, and why leadership development remains America's greatest asymmetric advantage. We also discuss the integration of conventional and special operations forces, the concept of compound warfare, and the difference between interoperability and true integration on the battlefield. General Anderson breaks down the course pushed toward innovation,

• 1:31Fran Racioppi?

  the initiatives like the Joint Innovation Outpost, and experimental exercises that incorporate artificial intelligence, machine learning, and data-driven decision-making into operational planning. But even as technology changes warfare, he makes one thing clear: There must always be a human in the loop. The Jedberg Podcast is brought to you by OneBree, enabling military leaders to make innovative, informed, and deliberate decisions faster than ever before. Superhuman command means wars. Follow the Jedberg Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform, read on our website, and watch the full video version on YouTube as we show you why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge.

• 2:17Fran Racioppi?

  Anderson, welcome to Jedbruck Podcast.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Thanks, friends. Good to be here. Thank you for coming to Fort Bragg.

• 2:23Fran Racioppi?

  It's the home of everything.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  And the center of the universe.

• 2:26Fran Racioppi?

  It is the center of the universe, the home of everything. I mean, we've got, we have what we're here to talk about. America's contingency force is based here in addition to my home at USASOC and Special Operations Command. We got to give them this shout out, but before we get going, definitely a special thanks and a shout out to General Ferguson, USASOC Commander for linking us up. And because one of the biggest topics that's on everyone's mind right now, especially in the SOF community, as we enter into this large scale combat operation time of our army, of our military is where does SOF fit in? And you've had the opportunity throughout your career to serve in the conventional army and serve in SOF

• 3:09Fran Racioppi?

  at all levels of command. And so General Ferguson informed me that there was no better person to talk to about how SOF and the conventional forces actually not only achieve interoperability, but true integration. So we came here to the center of everything to talk about it with you.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. I'm excited to talk about it. It's something I do think about a lot in the SOF and conventional integration, joint force integration, multi domain integration. As we look at large scale combat operations on the horizon against picking adversary, our ability to integrate not just by action, but by design is going to be really critical to enable our future success.

• 3:54Fran Racioppi?

  Well, I want to start with where you sit today. You're the commander of the 18th Airborne Corps. And so what is the 18th Airborne Corps? And when we say it's America's contingency force, what does that actually mean?

• 4:06Speaker 01

  So we are the Global Contingency Response Force for the Department of War. And we're comprised of four divisions, the 3rd Infantry Division, 10th Mountain, 82nd, 101st, and seven brigades worth of enablers from fires, intelligence, logistics, medical intelligence. I mean, it's a tremendous, about 80,000 soldiers.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  In incredible formation. Additionally, you have a core headquarters that is trained to fight at the operational and joint level of war. We're ready to go. I mean, the the vision, as I came in to kind of take command of this incredible formation, what a true blessing and honor. To sum up what we do, it really is the vision statement. And without advanced warning, the 18th Airborne Corps deploys globally, forms a seamless joint and coalition team and deters your defeats any adversary. Tall order. We've got to be able to do it on little to no notice. We've got to form teams on N-hour sequences. We've

• 5:13Speaker 01

  got to be able to understand threat and conflict across the depth and breadth of the planet. And so there's a lot that's been asked of us. In fact, you're seeing, you know, we're contributing significantly to the joint forces fighting forward now in Iran. And so, and on the southern border and within Southcom. And I mean, you can you can see we're kind of the role we play in providing forces, but also being able to fight that force.

• 5:40Fran Racioppi?

  Well, and that's an interesting dynamic, because in so many of our conversations with the special forces units, the Green Berets primarily, we talk about regional affiliation and the importance of how the groups are regionally affiliated and how you have to become a master and an expert in that region. But what you're asked to do is be ready to go anywhere in the world to do almost anything. When you look at training and you look across each one can, you know, with the unit patches are behind us here, but each one of these are vastly different units as well. They bring different capabilities from the mechanized infantry of Third ID to, you know, airborne of the 82nd Airborne Division, the 101st Air Assault, and the light infantry capabilities of the 10th Mountain. They all require specialized

• 6:24Fran Racioppi?

  training, different training, collective training, because they have to be able to work together. And they got to go anywhere in the world to do anything from large scale combat operations to counterterrorism. When you look at the training plans and you sit down with those division commanders and you're saying, how are you going to get ready? What are you looking for? When faced with a challenge, Green Berets adapt, overcome, and keep moving forward. Now's your chance to stand with them. Join the 1952 Society with a monthly gift of just $19.52 to provide critical

• 6:53Fran Racioppi?

  Medical devices for wounded, ill, and injured Green Berets. Your support fuels their recovery, helping them return to duty or continue serving their communities. A Green Beret's mission never stops. Neither should our support. Join the 1952 Society today and stand with those who stand for us.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there's two ways to kind of look at it. And both ways are, both ways are okay. And in fact, in theory, you want to use both ways. And where am I going with this? One is war plans. What, in terms of the Global Combatant Command, wherever we go in the globe, whatever combatant commander we are going to support, what are their plans for us? And what operational problems do they expect us to solve for them? If we understand that, we can then start building training and development and requirements and refine planning and then trying to, or even innovation. We may be asked to do something we're not used to doing, but solve it now so we can

• 7:53Speaker 01

  execute the plan we've been allocated against. That assumes that the plans exist and the plans are in enough detail to allow you to do that. And that's not always the case. And so what's the other way to hedge your bets and be prepared for the unexpected? And I've come to believe, you know, my 30, almost 34 years of, of service here, that there are three enduring pillars. And I talked to my commanders about these all the time. One is build teams. Every level, Fran, build a team that you commit to, that you're trust, that you have trust with, that you can communicate effectively with, that you understand and know their strengths and weaknesses, and they know yours.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Teams survive adversity and they survive tension and pressure and stress. Lack of a team, you see the formation start to crack and fall apart. So everything's about the team for me. Two, the second pillar.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Mastery of basic skills, fundamentals, basics. I'm talking company level all the way through individual. Can you do your task without conscious thought? Can you do it at night? Can you do it while you're under the stress of combat and the danger of the mission? And then lastly is have we developed our leaders to be able to critically think through problems? So imagine if we don't have a, we don't know our mission. We don't know what we're going into and we haven't prepared for it. If I've got a strong team that's got the basics right and leaders that can actually think through problems will typically prevail. And so those are the overriding factors as we kind of tackle this global mission.

• 9:34Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. The leader development piece, I think, is one of those pillars that really separates the US military from everybody else. And we've done a good job, you know, throughout our alliances with foreign militaries in the, in kind of their development of their NCO cores. But when we look across our, our force and our army specifically, and you look at leader development, you're a general. I was an officer. We tend to get enamored with, you know, that with the officer side of things, but that's where I'm going to ask you about the NCO side of things. That's, that's where really the rubber meets the road. That's where the work's getting done. And that's where the culture of the army kind of falls on.

• 10:19Fran Racioppi?

  And that's more importantly than the culture, that's where the readiness of the army comes from is the NCO core. When you look at the core and you look at all these different capabilities, what are you looking for in those senior NCOs?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, you know, I've, I have a few notes out there that I've written where I attribute about 99% of what I've learned, certainly what I've learned of any value have come from non-commissioned officers that raised me up, starting as a young junior lieutenant, all the way up at every echelon. And their investment in me and watching how they do business and their ruthless pragmatism, their expertise, their zealous adherence to standards and their fundamentals, it really left a profound impact in kind of how I do business. So I certainly wouldn't be here without those NCOs, countless dozens of them.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  And as I look back now, what I've seen, I've seen our NCO corps in a different light. And you know, because NCOs run our army, they run everything. And they're the center of our army's universe here. We need them everywhere and we don't have as many as we want. So what does that create? What that creates for us is a constant movement within the NCO corps. And you see them rushing to fill requirements in the training base and the recruiting base. And I mean, you name it, the SVABs, you know, other demands that are NCOs.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  And what I have noticed is a degradation in their tactical, technical expertise of what we need them to do. So for me, first and foremost, the role of the non-commissioned officer in the army, and what I've learned from the best is to become the technical tactical experts in the application of violence at the tactical level. No one should be able to do it better than they. And when they walk in the room, they're the experts and there's no argument. And if you have an NCO corps that can do that, whatever their role is in their units, whatever their MOS is, we will have operational mastery. But to get there, they've got to own training.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  They've got to own, it's not, and they've got to own operations and training, right? You don't empower somebody that should own it. And so I've never truly believed in that we're an empowering. The NCO is, to quote General Eisenhower, the sergeant is the army, period. I'll stop. So what are we doing to allow the NCO Corps to get to that point? Where they are the true experts, where they do, they are the army, where they own training and operations. Cause there's one thing I've also learned, if they own training and they own how everything's run, they'll own the battlefield. But the opposite's not true.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  And so, basics, fundamentals, training management, this division of labor between the NCO Corps and the officer corps, this is big time commander officer business to get this correct. And when we're in balance, if the NCO Corps doesn't stabilize to build the expertise, then, you know, we ought to reframe and relook at things and say, okay, are we building the NCO Corps that we need to win the next battle? And that's kind of how I approach it in 18th Corps. That's what we're moving out on.

• 13:57Fran Racioppi?

  We're coming out of a period of time now where we had 20 plus years in the global war on terror. And all of those, the 9/11 generation, you know, my peers and I who joined post 9/11 and came in in that 2001, 2, 3, 4 era are now senior leaders. And we understood what counterterrorism and counterinsurgency meant. When we look across the globe today, yes, counterterrorism operations still exist, but the threats that exist today are much different. And we're seeing in each one of the combatant commands,

• 14:37Fran Racioppi?

  very different types of warfare being fought, whether it be in the European theater with Ukraine and Russia, whether it be in the Middle East with Iran, or it be on the southern border, and the counter narcotics missions that are down in South America. And we have, I was fortunate to spend time at SOC Africa, and we still have the Africa operations, which are much more of an operation of influence, and who's going to really maintain soft power. Throughout at the African region, but we have all these different types of missions and operations going on that we have to address. But we can't do it the way we fought the last war. We have to look forward. There has to be innovation. You've been a huge proponent

• 15:22Fran Racioppi?

  of innovation. On the way in here, we drove by the Joint Innovation Outpost. So can you take a second and talk about what is the Joint Innovation Outpost? And how are you, as the Corps Commander, really pushing the importance of innovation down to all the subordinate units?

• 15:40Speaker 01

  So, super question. Thanks for that. I mean, we think about innovation here and at the ability to adapt here all the time. And it's nothing I brought to the Corps. The Corps had this kind of culture for several, several years, several generations of leaders that have come in here who have kind of seen that as a contingency Corps, you're going to go as you are. And so there is an urgency, like the industrial base is not going to start producing things that you need when you're on an N-hour timeline. It's too late. You either have it or you don't. You'll be put into typically phase zero of a conflict where you're going to have to learn and figure things out and adapt quickly.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  And so this sort of mindset of solving your own problems, some self-reliance, seeing and understanding the environment, learning about your enemy, and then being able to change how you do things, whether the tools you use, or how you organize, or how you think is critical. The other piece is combat is the ultimate Darwin episode here, right? Darwin says, it's not the strongest species that survives, it's the species that can adapt. The fastest will survive. And combat puts that on, you know, on light speed and very quickly. So as we at the Corps understand both of those things, innovation becomes front and center, whether we learn about another conflict

• 17:07Speaker 01

  going on overseas, like Ukraine, pick a conflict or others before that, or

• 17:13Speaker 01

  We think through in detail the kinds of scenarios we could be put against and kind of how have the tools and processes and and and elements of warfare changed and how do we need to change, whether we learn through experimentation, simulations, exercises, planning, events, it all has become very, very important. So this culture's been here for a while for those reasons. When I showed up, I decided to put the structure of innovation into a campaign plan format, meaning we would go into planning detail out on longer time horizons, in some cases, three years out, and work our way back in and all the

• 17:57Speaker 01

  things we wanted to learn. We have to fix this learning objective for mission command. There's a fires issue we've got to fix here. We've got to link these two organizations. We've got to get better predictive logistics. I mean, you name it, on and on and on. And we started moving out in this. Well, the GIOP, and I have some great teammates, comes from our army leadership. We saw 18th Corps on a plan for innovation. They're not just experimenting and moving through us. They've got plans in motion and they're going to assess these plans or program experiments against it, and they have a culture of innovation down there. Why don't we bring a capability of acquisitions, contracting, some resources

• 18:39Speaker 01

  as well, and pair up with that culture of innovation and that plan and see what happens? So this GIOP was stood up in December of 25. Fran, it's not even FOC yet, fully operationally capable, and it is producing all kinds of goodness from counter UAS to UAS employment to how we're building, developing our own mission command networks, the different things that we're doing with, on the logistics side, and then we're taking, we're still taking advantage of our classic soldier innovation. As that comes up, we move it right into production lines through contract. It's like, it's an incredible

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Resource and it's just getting started.

• 19:24Fran Racioppi?

  How have you and I guess even maybe more broadly, how has the army shortened that acquisition timeline through innovation now? Cause we've realized that and you brought up Ukraine, but Ukraine's been a perfect example of where we don't have the time anymore to say, hey, well, we're seeing this on the battlefield. We need to innovate on it. And in 36 months, we're going to deploy it.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Army leadership, I think is known for a while now that our traditional acquisition processes in interface with industry is not going to be the answer for how fast evolution on the battlefield is occurring. And we just, you take a look at the Ukraine example and how fast both the Russians and Ukrainians are evolving. UAS and counter UAS, electronic warfare, uh, I'm on a whole host, how they use sensors, how they communicate, how they manage, how they use data to make decisions. And you're seeing both sides evolve with the timelines, weeks and months, uh, in some cases. And so if you're on a five year procurement plan or things and the rules which govern our, our outdated acquisition processes

• 20:30Speaker 01

  for a lot of things, maybe not for everything, but for, for some things, it's definitely outdated. Then they've come to the realization, hey, we, we need to look for things. And so when they saw the plan and the culture down here, the army leadership came all in and was like, let's experiment with our processes, right? Cause part of innovation is not just tech, it's processes.

• 20:51Fran Racioppi?

  And how are you getting feedback on what's working and what's not?

• 20:55Speaker 01

  In terms of the GIOP? Yeah. So for instance, uh, in the most recent case, counter UAS, we're, we're looking at ways to build an operational level framework for counter UAS at a division and core level. And we're doing things within the GIOP and industry against a framework. So we'll build a framework for how we're going to take down small UAS and how we're going to integrate sensors and shooters and, and, and connect all that stuff. And then we invite partners to come in. Some partners will bring in sensors, some bring in software, some bring in, uh, frangible five, five, six rounds. You know, at the very point, pointy. The point end of defense and it's all integrated against a framework that we integrated

• 21:38Speaker 01

  because the operational problem is mine. It's not industries to figure out. I own the operational problem. I own the risk. I'm the one who's going to drive what we need, but I don't know what industry knows. I don't know what science is. I don't know what's out there. They come and they've been coming and they're helping us integrate and solve that. They get the ad benefit is like they know what their customer wants. We're pretty clear on what we need. There's not a lot, take a lot of guesswork out. So that's one way to do it. The other one is our Scarlet Dragon series, which has been going on for about five years now. And we, again, it's an operational problem to how do we use advanced

• 22:18Speaker 01

  computing, data centric kind of decision making through advanced computing, large language models and machine learning to give us, to allow us to make in distributed fashion, to make decisions more informed and faster than our opponents. And that was a series of questions and experiments and tests and it's evolved. And frankly, in about five years, we've, we've just, we've evolved from basic decision dominance to when now I'm starting to see with model development and our algorithms and kind of how we're using the just predictive kind of modeling now to what I call adaptation dominance. So now I want to make decisions faster than you. I'm going to evolve and

• 23:02Speaker 01

  adapt faster than you and I'm using data and machine learning to help me do it. These things that GIOP is front and center on and as well as building on the legacy of some of the things that were started here about five, six years ago.

• 23:15Fran Racioppi?

  When we look at the AI integration, because we're hearing a lot about it, you know, we're, we're seeing it on various battlefields as well. Do you think there ever becomes a point where there's not a human in the loop?

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Uh, for the things that I can, I think for some very basic sensors, like we send things out to find and detect, there probably can be applications where you don't need a human loop. Anything that links to decision with that and there's lethality or there's lives at risk. Currently, as far as I can see out into the future, I don't, I see humans in the loop. I see the advantage of warfighting is, is not replacing humans with machine decision making. It's now creating super humans that are enabled by, you know, our ability to make sense of all the information coming in and then weed out what's not important, focus on what's important.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  And now we're making smarter decisions faster than you. That is where I think we're, that's where we're going as a core and where I think it's going to be appropriate. The judgment of humans, especially with lives, lives on the line and the risk associated with that. From everything I can see and what we've tested still is best with the human in the loop.

• 24:32Fran Racioppi?

  You started going down the path of the discussion about interoperability and integration. So I tell you, we're going to bring it up here, but we're entering into, and we are in a period of time where our conventional forces are front and center on the battlefield and they have to be. They need to be the capabilities that are brought by the units under your command, the capabilities that, you know, we saw even in the early days of, of our, I mean, I was in fourth ID and my time as a mechanized infantry platoon leader was the best time I ever had.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  I've got two sons in fourth ID right now.

• 25:04Fran Racioppi?

  Oh, it's, yeah, they're loving it. It's awesome. I loved it. I, I, and I mean, I got, had the opportunity to deploy as a young lieutenant, as a platoon leader in 2005 to Iraq. And there was no other place I'd rather be than in that Bradley. Uh, and, and we used it for everything it was built for, uh, back then. And so I have a very, uh, strong, uh, allegiance and affiliation to, to the conventional army. And I understand, I think at a very concrete level, what the conventional army can bring to. Combat and bring to warfighting and how important they are to our campaign plans. When you look at integration versus interoperability, how do you define those?

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they're very different and a lot of people use them interchangeably, which is something I'm hoping we can get some more discussion on across the field here. Interoperability, obviously, is our ability to work together and to actually interoperate in a very efficient, effective manner. So think about our lessons in the GWAT, Iraq, Afghanistan, where we needed to be able to talk to each other. We needed to be able to de-conflict fires together or ISR, or we needed to be able to share information. Or if you're moving from one, cross one boundary to another, be able to plug in with the unit that owns that terrain. I mean, SOF units have

• 26:27Speaker 01

  done this brilliantly for many years, but there's an interoperability component of that. Integration is how do the two capabilities come together to then create a greater effect than that they would otherwise? And how to use the strengths and weaknesses of each of these capabilities or units, tech, whatever you're going to integrate to actually accomplish the mission, where maybe one could not do it by itself. And so that's kind of how I generally look at it. Look, for me, warfare is first and foremost an intellectual exercise. And you have to understand every single mission, every single operation

• 27:12Speaker 01

  is going to be different. There's no one size fits all. There's no, this is the way we did it. There's no perfect task organization or blending of capabilities that's going to address every problem that you solve. That's why, you know, in our mission or our planning process, you don't task organize until after you've achieved your, got your concept of operations down and you know exactly what you're trying to do. And then I think at that point, you are now ready to integrate what you've designed. And to me, that's the big, big difference. Planning should drive integration.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  And when you do that, you'll actually integrate, you'll use these components that you're integrating, whether it's space, cyber, soft, conventional, some coalition or other joint capability from the maritime or air components. And you know, we gotta bring all that stuff together and it's sustained over the course of your operation. So I, I think getting to that space is very, very important. And for us to think that we were interoperable in the GWAT, which means we're interoperable now, okay. But it doesn't mean you can integrate now because it's, again, it's what are you trying to do? What is, in this case, soft and conventional? What does a soft bring to the fight? What does the conventional bring to the fight?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  And how do we want to use these capabilities together to achieve the end? And the end may always be changing. It takes constant adjustment. And the end in phase zero, soft may be the lead. In phase three, decisive operations, if it's in Lisco, the conventional side may be the lead. But let the planning and the design bring that out. Coming in with a dogmatic of solutions to problems that you haven't thought through is, will put us at a disadvantage.

• 29:09Fran Racioppi?

  How do you get the tactical level leader? And I'm saying the most basic tactical, the platoon leader, the platoon sergeant, the team leader and the team sergeant to understand when

• 29:26Fran Racioppi?

  As you said, you know, they're the primary versus the supporting and when that has to shift. Because these plans that you're talking about, when we truly talk about integration, I mean, these are strategic level concepts, you know, they're planned at the operational level. But at the end of the day, those tactical level leaders have to be the ones who talk and work together.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  So we've got a lot of work to do before we even get to that level. And, you know, I've talked to some audiences and talked to my staff about this all the time. So when the military is employed by our, our national leadership, they'll have strategic objectives outlined for us. Achieve this objective and here's your mission. Well, what do we typically then do? We go into tactical planning and we form all these tactical sequences. And we're trying to take an abstract strategic objective. And we're trying to then apply a bunch of physical, mechanical actions to it. But there's a lot of thought between those two. What's the system of, of the adversary and the environment you're up against? What kind of resources do you need?

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Uh, how are you going to team on this going and, you know, who's coming with certain capabilities or not? How much, you know, and, and all of this has to be kind of flushed out in operational design to then know. And an approach so that you then know how you're going to conduct your tactical actions. Often we'll go through straight to tactical actions and then we'll have to go back and do the operational level work. Anyways, that's kind of, we've seen that, uh, it throughout our history and not just a history of armies everywhere. And militaries everywhere, it's replete with it. But so you'll never be able to tell that tactical level leader when things are going to change and shift. If you haven't done the op, you know, again, at my level, you've done the operational level rigor in the planning.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  But that, that requires to then set the field for them to operate. They understand the mission and how it links back to the strategic objectives. They understand the environment that they're operating in. They understand the resource constraints they're under. They understand the enemy system that they're going to be up against. Then you start unleashing. Their initiative, they can operate within that. And that's the kind of where if we look at it soft teams or platoons at the tactical level, that's the space they want to be in. And that's where we want them. But it it's not easy. It's a lot of hard work that goes into building those things.

• 31:54Fran Racioppi?

  The term compound warfare has been front and center for you over the last couple of years and really taking this conversation a step further because this truly becomes, you know, how those units actually work together. And, you know, there's a lot of historical vignettes. But I mean, you can even think back to the Jedbergs, you know, back in at the the start of the D-Day invasion and the night before D-Day, you have these three main teams, they start parachuting in. And what was their mission? It was to it was to disrupt the enemy, prevent the enemy and the Germans from massing and getting forces to the beaches in Normandy. So they couldn't reinforce the beaches to allow for the conventional force to come

• 32:36Fran Racioppi?

  in and seize terrain. How do you define compound warfare in today's fight?

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I don't I don't think I'd define it any differently in the classic case of compound warfare. That's the blending of regular and irregular capabilities to create a host of dilemmas for your enemy. The core of it is if you have an irregular threat, what do armies typically do when there's an irregular threat? They spread out wide area security. Well, if you spread out your formations and capabilities out while you're also facing a conventional threat, they can mass on you and cause you problems. You said all kinds of history shows how presenting those multiple dilemmas of do I spread out or do I mass? Do I spread out? Do I mass? That is a very difficult problem for and

• 33:27Speaker 01

  the Jedburgh trip right on. They created that for the Germans across Europe while the conventional armies were were putting all kinds of pressure on them. So to me, when we look at the potential of soft and conventional forces on the US side in a large scale combat To me, it jumps irregular and regular working together. But this goes back to this design thing, right? Can we design our operational approach over time? Because it takes time to build networks, to gain access. All the things that a soft needs to be able to harness unconventional irregular forces. It's got to come on the back of hard planning and integration, some thought, war gaming, all of that piece.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  And so I would tell you how we think about it. It's not going to happen overnight. But we can see and we can foresee and forecast areas of the world that we may be called to go fight. And this may be five years from now, it could be 15, 20 years from now. But if we can imagine ourselves being asked to fight a certain enemy, pick, pick an enemy. You should look through to see what are the regular and irregular components of a campaign against that enemy. It will help your planning. It will, think about what it would do for the soft side. I have to build these networks to do this. I have to put these capabilities in to do this. I have to develop leaders and language and skill sets and familiarities to do these things.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  I need to then be able to then work and understand the conventional plan. So the things I do, whether it's in the rear area, protecting something or in the enemy rear area, going after critical targets of value. All that's central to a design that contributes to the decisive act of the conventional force. The defeat of their main body, whatever the problem is. I think, but again, it won't happen if you just put forces together and go to a CTC exercise. It won't happen if you come together and we, you know, and we just discuss this, you know, in historical case or LPD. We've got to then figure out how we want to use it and apply that model in some of the conflicts

• 35:38Speaker 01

  we see out on the time horizon. That's where I would encourage us to go. Because again, there, there's only so many places and so many enemies that we would go up against. We should start putting some work against those sets.

• 35:52Fran Racioppi?

  Questions for you that are gonna, I would say they're gonna harness your experience as now a three-star general. And I frame it like that because I think it's important. And you know, for those who don't truly understand, what does it mean to become a general officer? Well, you know, they take away your, your branch insignia, you know, and they tell you, you know, you have a wealth of experience now, and we're going to ask you to apply that wealth of experience and which now leads to forethought, because their expectation is that you're going to use your past experiences over however many decades to now at a very high level shape where the army goes. There's been a lot of conversations that have quite honestly frustrated me over the

• 36:37Fran Racioppi?

  last several months when conflicts have now arisen in various areas of the world. And people said, well, why didn't we do that when we went into Iraq? Why didn't we do that when we went into Afghanistan? And my comments have been, well, we didn't have the technology, we didn't have the resources, we didn't have a lot of the capabilities that exist today, 20, 25 years ago, that make it look much easier today. The other side of that coin is you talk to folks who are retired or are out, who look at the current operating environment and say, it's a lot harder to be a warfighter and to engage in the business as, as the SMA would say, engage in the business of warfighting today than it's been in the past. In your perspective,

• 37:21Fran Racioppi?

  is it harder to conduct warfighting today than it has been in the past?

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's certainly, it's more complex. I mean, when it gets down to it, the danger, you know, when you're at the very, the smallest tactical level and you're closing with an enemy that's shooting at you and you're shooting back, fundamentally, that's as dangerous. And it's difficult if you were fighting another enemy in another battlefield. And so I don't think that piece, the difficulty of that has changed. The basics, the fundamentals, the physicality, the fears, all the emotions of all of that, the loss, right, and the stress, all that remains. The complexity, though, of different variables and different capabilities and different constraints and things, especially in the speed and the tempo and the lack of, you know,

• 38:12Speaker 01

  the absolute dependency on logistics that may or may not be there. I mean, there's so many more dimensions now that make it more difficult. I see them way more clearly now as a general. And they may, they probably were there anyways when I was a younger officer. I just didn't appreciate it. What I've come to realize, my role as a general is not to solve the problem. My role as a general is not to be the, you know, the hero that comes in, far from it. My role is to think and understand the problem we're trying to solve. And then, once I've been given the decision on how we're going to get after that problem, can I set the field for our colonels and majors and captains and sergeants to win it for us?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Can I get them in the right relationships and sets, the right resources, the right terrain, the right rules and timelines to enable them to win? And that's where I put all my, my thought as a general. That's a fundamental shift for when I was a battalion commander or a brigade commander, company commander in combat. And I don't know if that helps you on that answer at all, but it's, to me, generalship is in the realm of setting the field for our subordinates to win.

• 39:23Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah, it does answer my question.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Okay, good.

• 39:27Fran Racioppi?

  Because, and I mean, and you look at the operating environment, the technology has changed a lot of things in warfare. I mean, I remember going to Lerslick, I think I was in like the last, it had just become R slick at that point, but they were still teaching the Lerslick P O I. And it was like, you know, you're crawling on your belly through the woods and, you know, maintaining, you know, long range comms. And it's like, I don't, you can't do that now.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:52Fran Racioppi?

  Spotted, you're going to get identified and technology has changed so much. So in a lot of ways it is different.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  But it's how we got to learn and adapt again back to that point faster and like, you know, how do you encourage that? Cause in an army where, you know, we also have to be compliant and standards driven and we have like certain techniques, tactics and procedures. But then you've got to be able to adapt at the same time. You've got to do both. You can't pick one or the other. And developing people to operate in those things is ultimately the, that's the long-term hedge against an uncertain future for the military. Train our people that they're going to carry us. I mean, there's clear number one strength. No one comes close. In terms of the quality of our people, rightly, that's why this campaign plan.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  It's about structure and all this stuff, but it's about optimizing all of the talent of in human capital that we have here. And putting that to work against these problems that matter. And then they are, they're crushing it. We just have to give them and you got to assume some risk with that. Assume risk now. It's way, way better than assuming risk in combat. When folks, you, you validated through this process, we're going to be able to go in and, and solve harder problems on other days for you when you're going to need it.

• 41:06Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. The people are what matter most in any organization. I talked about it in the soft truths and people are more important than hardware. But it applies in, not only in the army and in the military at large, but you know, as a, as a business owner now, and we see it every day. You know, in my business, you've got to have good people. You've got to have the right people in the right place. Uh, and they're going to, they're going to carry you forward. The army has gone through an evolution in the post GWOT period. And we've seen a decline in your recruiting numbers. We've seen numbers come back up. We've seen an evolution of the culture over the last decade, even two decades, but you know, you're 34 years, I think you said less, but the, the three decades.

• 41:50Fran Racioppi?

  You've seen multiple iterations of what army culture looks like, how it's changed and how it's continuously being assessed. When you look across your formation today at the core level. And you see these subordinate units and you see those soldiers, you see those officers, those NCOs in the, in the ranks. What do you see?

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I see, uh, I see a lot. Oh, good and bad. They're, uh, they're, uh.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  I see the greatness of our nation here. I see our young men and women coming forward, you know, to serve something greater than themselves. And that's why I still stay in. To be honest with you, there's a purpose that's there in our people and it's draw in that purpose and the fulfillment you get from serving someone else. And we all know what that's like, right? It that that you talk about contributing to happiness and growth and kind of an overall life fulfillment. They already sense and see that. Now, if we're not allowing them to kind of drive to and understand and explore that purpose and we should make sure they're constantly reminded of what they do

• 43:02Speaker 01

  is contributing to something like this, then shame on us as leaders. And so I I try to get around to actually be able to communicate that to them. But I'm humbled by their intelligence, how their courage, their energy, their love of just of being Americans and being free and just in the amazing time in their life, they're willing, they trust you, right? And they're willing to go and like, wow, like it's an invincible force we've got of talent and energy and and just potential. That's what I see when I see them. And obviously, a lot of laughs. They're funny. And we have a lot of good times. But it's that human thing. This is a human business

• 43:45Speaker 01

  with human relationships. Be authentic. They're authentic back to us. And I tell you, you just create, you know, we obviously, not obviously, but we often forget that sometimes when we become enamored with tech, whatever the priorities are, whatever problem we're trying to solve. And sometimes you got to take a step back and just say, look at the people I'm with. And this is what I get to do this with these people. And like, I can't, and it's never grown old for me. As long as I've been in the army, from day one to now, that part of the army hasn't changed. And I just absolutely love it.

• 44:23Fran Racioppi?

  Last question is test question now.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:26Fran Racioppi?

  The Jedbergs in World War II, they had to do three things every day to be successful. I say the Jedbergs had to do it, but we could say any soldier has to do these three things. Well, they got to be able to shoot, they got to be able to move, and they got to be able to communicate. Those are core tasks, their habits, their foundational. One of, one of the pillars you mentioned was you have to master the basics. Whenever I talk about special forces and people are like, what was it like to be an SF? I tell them one simple thing, there's nothing special about special forces. You just do the basics better than everybody else. And you see that in your core here because these units are held to a different standard than, than a lot across the army. But when you wake up every day, what are the three things that you do every day to set conditions for success in your world?

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, for me, um, they pay me to, to exercise judgment and maybe make some decisions, but I have to have judgment. So I understand that that's my role is to kind of see, learn, make sense of it, and then make a determination based off of what I'm learning and seeing and what people are talking to me about. And so I have to be balanced. And I found that my balance comes in from a few things. One, uh, you know, my own health and fitness. And so PT every day, every day, it's sacrosanct to me. Uh, I pray every day. I pray to, for all, you know, for my many shortfalls to, that I can then, you know,

• 45:52Speaker 01

  remain cognizant and humble and, uh, and understand what my role and purpose is here and what I can do to help. And so I pray for that. And then I, I spend time with my wife and family every day. And, uh, that balances me to then hopefully exercise good, sound judgment.

• 46:12Fran Racioppi?

  Balance, I'll get PT, pray, family time. Well, sir, I appreciate you taking time to sit down with us. I mean, the world is certainly an extraordinary and at times crazy place. And what we ask of our military and our army is to continue to wake up every day and carry the fight to the enemy, wherever that enemy may be. And at the front end of that fight is your corps, the 18th Airborne Corps, the units that serve under your command. And we wake up every day, you know, you said you pray for things and I do too. And that's that, the, the units in this formation get out there and they keep America strong.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Fran, thank you. It's really, uh, it's been great to spend some time today. Thank you very much.

• 46:56Fran Racioppi?

  Thank you. American Jedbergs went on to form the foundation of the United States Special Forces and the Special Activities Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Thanks for listening to the Jedburgh Podcast, an official program of the Green Beret Foundation. I'm your creator and host, Fran Rycho. Join us next week for a new episode on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Check us out on YouTube for full episodes, highlights, and other long and short form content. If you like what you heard, give us a like and leave a review. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, extra threads. Send your comments and inquiries to [email protected]. As former members of Special Operations Forces, the Jedburgh Media Channel and the Green Beret Foundation remain committed to supporting all generations of US Army Special Forces and their families.

• 47:41Fran Racioppi?

  Thanks for joining us on this episode. How you prepare today determines success tomorrow.