Sex in Midlife: It Doesn’t Have to Fade (and Can Even Be Great) | Susan Bratton

Susan Bratton has spent over two decades teaching people the passionate lovemaking and intimate communication skills that sex education (and life) never covered. At 42, after eleven years of marriage, she had never had an orgasm from intercourse, and her husband was already having an affair to cope with it. What actually turned things around wasn't couples therapy. It was something else entirely, and it changed how she teaches everyone who's come to her since. Susan is the author and publisher of 44 books and programs on lovemaking, sensual communication, and what she calls regenerative intimacy, reaching more than 1.5 million people worldwide. She's become one of the most trusted, least censored voices teaching people how sex actually works in the body, at every age. This conversation is guest-hosted by acclaimed author and coach Cynthia Morris. What you'll explore: The three different things people lump together under "low libido," and why untangling them changes what you actually need to fix. Why Susan stopped using the word "sex" altogether, and the shift she's seen in how people respond once she doesn't. The physical reason arousal builds so differently in men's and women's bodies, and the one image that makes it click instantly. The specific framework Susan built after her own marriage nearly came apart over unmet needs, and how any couple can use it. What changed the moment she stopped treating tools and technique as something to be ashamed of. If you've quietly decided your best sex is behind you, this conversation is the case for reconsidering that, whatever decade you're in. You can find Susan at: Website https://susanbratton.com/ | Instagram https://www.instagram.com/susanbratton/ | Episode Transcript https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/orgasm-gap-low-libido-women-sex-after-40-susan-bratton You can find Cynthia at: Website https://www.originalimpulse.com/ | Instagram https://www.instagram.com/cynthiamorris Next week, we're sitting down with Scott Harrison to talk about how twenty years, a lot of failure, and one story told the right way turned into a movement that's brought clean water to tens of millions of people who never had it. Be sure to follow Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss that or any upcoming episodes! Check out our sponsors and resources: Visit Our Sponsor Page https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sponsors/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonathan Fields?

  So most people assume that midlife often shepherds in the slow death of sex and sensuality. But sex doesn't have to fade in your 40s or 50s or beyond. It can actually get better, more soulful, satisfying, and more connected than ever. Today's guest, Susan Bratton, reveals the frameworks, the language, and the practical tools that turn shame and often shutdown into intimacy, helping you build a sex life that grows with you instead of disappearing over time and with age. If you ever thought, well, maybe this part of my life is over, this conversation will flip that script. Today's conversation is also guest hosted by a dear friend, acclaimed author and coach,

• 0:41Jonathan Fields?

  Cynthia Morris, who also brings her own late in life curiosity and honesty and reinvention into the discussion. And together, they unpack why so many couples get stuck in duty and frustration and silence, and how to move back towards pleasure play and honest connection. You'll discover things like why libido, desire, and arousal are completely different, and why confusing them keeps couples stuck. How shame, fear, trauma, and performance anxiety quietly kill intimacy. You'll learn about the sexual soulmate pact, and how it creates safer, more honest bedroom communication. You'll hear about why women often need more time and safety and surrender to arouse,

• 1:24Jonathan Fields?

  and how partners can work with that instead of against it, and how solo pleasure, sex tools, and experimentation can expand what Susan calls orgasmic capacity at any age. Susan also shares the turning point in her own marriage, from platonic distance and unmet needs to a radically more honest, pleasure-centered relationship. A little more about Susan Bratton. She's a trusted intimacy expert and author of numerous books and programs on lovemaking techniques, intimacy communication, and regenerative intimacy. And she's the founder of BetterLover.com and has spent decades helping people move from fear to pleasure. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

• 2:08Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after this short break.

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• 3:18Jonathan Fields?

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• 3:49Speaker 05

  I love talking about sex and money because no one does. And we'll get to that. Let's start with this feeling or this idea that a lot of people arrive in their 40s or 50s in their sex life, the flame just kind of dies away, or so they think. And they just decide, well, that's it. And that was definitely me in my late 40s. I was like, I was single for seven years, and I was like, this is it. It's just, that's it. But you think that we have that backwards. Can you tell us why?

• 4:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, sure. How's your sex life now?

• 4:23Speaker 05

  It's super great. I found my husband at yoga, which I love because that was the last place I expected. And he's older. He's a bit older than me. And so I was like, for sure, it's over. For sure, there's not going to be any sex life. And it turns out, I was completely wrong. It's the best sex life I've ever had. So that's why I was like, this is, Susan knows this, and Susan has evidence, and we can hear about it.

• 4:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's funny. It really seems like the 40s are kind of a fork in the road for a lot of people, especially female-bodied people. And I'll use men, women, penis owners, vulva owners. I'll use all kinds of terms because we're seeing a great shift in the matriarchal, patriarchal roles in our culture right now. We're examining that because we're not, we're collectively dissatisfied with what's going on. And there's a great surge of gender spectrum and all of those kinds of things.

• 5:35Speaker 06

  And so I just really want to acknowledge support of all people on their journey, wherever they are, in whatever container they live in. Because one of the things that I really like about the work that I've done on myself and my own life is living completely into what one might have in the old days called my masculine versus my feminine. And it really has a lot of impact on our sexuality. And one of the interesting things about kind of the stages of sex, of your sex life, is what I've seen over the years, the decades that I've been an author of passionate lovemaking techniques, bedroom communication skills, and intimate wellness, or what I like to

• 6:18Speaker 06

  call regenerative intimacy, is that your 20s are kind of like the blind leading the blind, ever hopeful, some of us had some fun, some of us had some brief glimpses of the possibility. But almost to a kid in my daughter's cohort of the 20s, now she's hitting the end of her 20s, they would sit with me and they'd be like, "Suz, can I ask you a question?" And it was like, how come it seems like all my friends are having good sex, but I'm not? Is there something wrong with me? That's a really common scenario in your 20s. In your 30s, you're in it in your career.

• 6:58Speaker 06

  If you're gonna have children, that's generally a lot of when these generations have had their children, a little bit older. We're not doing it the same as our mothers did in their 20s. They're pushing to the 30s. So they've got this confluence of kids and career, and they're just trying to make it through. A lot of times, I talk to couples who have children in the home, and I teach them how to get through that era. I call it planting the seeds of your future sexual potential. Because with all those things going on, it's actually hard to get a lot done, but you've got to keep the experimentation going. Then in your 40s, you're kind of getting a little break from raising children.

• 7:41Speaker 06

  Some are pushing it even longer, and they still have little kids running around. But you either think, "Man, I'd like to have good sex and I'm not," or, "I don't know, maybe it's over for me," or, "I'm ready to be done with it." The "be done with it" often happens even later, in your 50s, where it used to be in our parents' generation, for us, Cynthia, that our moms would have kind of been like, well, menopause is the end. That was kind of the cultural moire was. Once you can't have babies, why would you want to have sex?

• 8:19Speaker 06

  Because of the culture that we live in, which is so repressive, there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of trauma, there's a lot of just issues that people go through. And it's easier because sex education isn't a thing. There isn't really sex education. There's fear-based scare tactics, but there's not a lot of like, "We're going to teach you how to pleasure each other." And the sexperts, and I'm an early generation of sex experts, and the 50-year-olds, the 40-year-olds, the 30-year-olds, and the 20-year-olds who are coming up behind me,

• 9:03Speaker 06

  we're all censored. But there's a lot more of them now. They're harder to whack down because so many people are now sexologists, sex therapists, embodiment coaches, they want to talk about sex, but it's censored. So in your 40s, it is the most common story, which is, "I had a renaissance in my sex life. I just decided, I'm just going to go for it. I want to learn things." The people who are growth mindset people, which very much are your listeners and viewers,

• 9:40Speaker 06

  you are teaching people reframes, new ways of approaching, insights, competitive edges, those kinds of things. And sex falls right into that category. The less you know, the more fear you have, the easier it is to give it up, because it's just not going to be good. Because we're born knowing how to procreate. We can figure out Tab A into Slot B, but beyond that, we get nothing. So it really is the blind leading the blind behind closed doors. And that's where the couples who are growth mindset, or the people who are growth mindset,

• 10:22Speaker 06

  will take, they'll take that fork in the road where sex can keep getting better because they're willing to learn things, your listeners, or they're going to be, "This is the way it is. I don't like it. I'm going to give it up." That's the fork in the road that leads to a loss of health span, a loss of happiness span. I mean, intimate pleasure, what I like, I don't like to call it sex. I like to call it orgasmic intimacy. Because sex, people think, is intercourse. They think, they equate the two, when sex is so many other things. And so if I say sex, and the people who are like, "I don't want sex," they'll give up. But if I say, "How about orgasmic intimacy? How about pleasurable intimacy?" They'll be like, "Okay, maybe I'd be open to that."

• 11:04Speaker 06

  So we can save a few people by just changing the language, which helps a lot. But generally orgasmic intimacy is the fourth factor of longevity. A long, happy, healthy life, literally lengthening your health span. Two years for every 10 years, you stay intimately orgasmically active.

• 11:30Speaker 05

  Oh, I love that.

• 11:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:31Speaker 05

  Yeah. So I'm curious about something you said. There's a certain sense of, okay, I just want to be done with it.

• 11:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 05

  What are some of the things that are showing up in someone's life to have them just want to give up on sex specifically?

• 11:46Speaker 06

  Duty booty, mercy sex, coercive sex, sex that is not pleasurable for them, painful sex, frustration with the partner inside and outside the bedroom. I like to give people a lot of structures to think about, like maps to the territory around our sexuality, because then they can be like, oh, I see, this is what, it helps you pinpoint what the problems are. There's libido, desire and arousal, and they're somewhat used interchangeably, but they're very different things. So the way to think about libido is it's the other side of the same coin as your overall health.

• 12:30Speaker 06

  You know how when you don't feel great, you're not really interested in making love? But when you feel good, you're like a little hornier, a little lustier. That's libido right there.

• 12:41Speaker 05

  It's our vitality, it sounds like.

• 12:44Speaker 06

  Big part of it. And then desire is more of the emotional body. How do I feel about myself? What's your self-talk? Is it self-love or is it self-loathing? So many people have a core wound of not being worthy of love or fearful of love, never having been loved well, not knowing how to love. Love is a learned skill and a practice as well. That little heart of ours is a door and a muscle. And that muscle needs to be worked to swing wide open. But when it swings wide open and then it slams shut, it hurts. And there are some people that would rather not love than be hurt. And that's a shame too.

• 13:26Speaker 06

  So the desire goes both ways. It goes into how desirable you feel about yourself. And it goes to how you feel about your partner. And often the people who want to give up intimacy, it hasn't felt good to them in their heart, their soul, their spirit, nor their body.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 06

  And then arousal is often what leads to that problem. You know, it's so funny, the nature and nurture of the masculine and feminine, what I would call like the penis-owning testosterone dominant human and the estrogen dominant vulva vaginal owning human. We have the same parts. He's an outie, she's an inny. We have the same erectile tissue. But because of the way it fits in our body and blood flow, hemodynamics, how fast it flows into the erectile tissue in our systems

• 14:29Speaker 06

  means that often our male body partners are ready to go at a moment's notice. They're kind of like laying in wait for the moment. They have testosterone.

• 14:38Speaker 05

  And it's obvious.

• 14:39Speaker 06

  Yes. And that's great. I mean, they're holding, they're holding the torch for us in so many ways. I really appreciate that, you know, they're the ones that are ready to go. And, and they, they get a lot more testosterone and so they also have more of that libido-y horniness feeling all the time. They generally masturbate more often as well, which is really healthy. I really like it when partners encourage their men to masturbate a lot. And vice versa goes both ways. Solo pleasuring is a very important part of keeping the parts working and expanding your orgasmic capacity as you age. You can come better and have more kinds of orgasms as you mature. If you stay, you know, if you understand that and you have that mindset.

• 15:23Speaker 06

  Where the female body, it's, you know, being an estrogen living woman, we live in a world that is fraught with danger. We have never in our society been more aware of how dangerous it is to be a woman walking in this earth. We do not walk safely. So for us to even think about becoming relaxed enough to allow the arousal to rise in our body, we need a lot of time, touch, safety, surrender. And often our, our partners, if they're men, they don't understand, they take our rejection of sex

• 16:07Speaker 06

  as like a rejection of them or because they ask for sex and we're not there. And they're making these big offers that, that are like, I mean, I don't know, babe, I'm not sure. You know, because it takes us time to feel safe and let down, literally let our hormones allow us to kind of let down and let our mouth water and let our vagina lubricate and, and the things that have to, you know, the little domino effect of arousal. And our arousal ladder, if you visualize it, it's one of those ladders that goes straight up. And it's got these, at the bottom, the rungs are really far apart and it's a heavy lift.

• 16:52Speaker 06

  For a man, it's more like, similar more to like an escalator.

• 16:59Speaker 05

  That's a great visual and just like, yeah, at the beginning, it takes a lot, it's a lot more effort. I love the map of libido, desire and arousal. I do think those maps help us to understand where we are there. You said, you said that there are all these things that are in the way, like it doesn't feel good. You're not into it. You're not really connecting. But then why does this seem to be an area in couples' lives that they just don't want to talk about? What has us not able to communicate about those needs?

• 17:30Speaker 06

  Shame, number one. I'm ashamed of my desire. I'm ashamed of my lack of desire. I'm supposed to, I want to want him, but I don't.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  So something's wrong with me? Does it go back to that like?

• 17:43Speaker 06

  Always for women, they think it's their fault and so does their male partner. Yup, it's her.

• 17:49Speaker 05

  Versus this is being human and being human at 50. Yeah.

• 17:53Speaker 06

  It, it is. And, and when men come to me and they say, she just never wants sex. And I say, well, what, what are you doing? Are you offering her sex? Yeah. And she always turns me down and I don't think she wants me anymore. And I feel, and they get angry, grumpy, and they have a victim mind mindset, right? They feel like the victim. And it's like, okay, well, let's, let's kind of rewind all this. Like, what are you doing romantically with her? Are you just touching her sometimes without trying to get sex? Does she trust your touch? Are you making her smaller offers? Are you paying attention to where, where she is mentally? You know, is she upset?

• 18:37Speaker 06

  Is she hungry? Is she tired? Is she, you know, frustrated? Is she, is she somewhat turned out? She relaxed? Like what can you do to take the load off her so she can enter into relaxation? So that she can begin to build arousal. So her ladder starts to become an escalator and then an elevator, because once she gets going, she's fine. But there's this big lift in the beginning for most women that because men don't experience it as much, and every, this is a bell curve thing, right? I mean, statistically across humanity, there are people who are very, very, very, very horny every day. They want sex all the time.

• 19:19Speaker 06

  And there are people who are completely asexual, never want it at all, not interested. What I'm really speaking to are the typical cultural norms and the average dude and his lady across the big bell curve of time in our culture. Cause we really have a lot of mores that we are dealing with as well as the physiologic, emotional, physical issues around sexuality. So once I teach a guy to

• 19:48Speaker 06

  And I don't, I don't meet one-on-one with anyone. I have books and programs, thirty-five of my own and another ten of my mentors whose lineages I carry forward because they are so extraordinarily beneficial. And I'm, I'm very lucky to do that. I feel truly honored to be someone who carries the lineages that I do for heart-connected, passionate, conscious, lovemaking techniques. That's what I'm really focused on is helping couples move away from everything that we see in our world that is through the male lens, pornography, movies,

• 20:31Speaker 06

  television, even women's erotica is still, we're swimming in this soup that is much more patriarchal in its construct and also very repressed. So people don't talk about things because they don't have the words and they've never seen what they want. If you've never even seen a thing that shows the pleasure a woman has, that isn't just something to titillate men, what is it that the female body needs? Like, a lot of times what I like to teach people is orgasmic intercourse techniques that feel good to the vagina, not just the penis, because all we see is penis techniques. That's what we see. And so it

• 21:14Speaker 06

  really helps to get the information, which is censored. So there's, we're in the, we're really caught in this cycle. And what's great about it now is that, and thank you for having me on your show, because podcasts and vidcasts are currently the only uncensored medium where we can actually deep dive and have honest and real talk about things like orgasmic intercourse techniques. So when men begin to learn how to make her smaller offers that match her mood, how to move her toward pleasure with integrity rather than coercion or expectation, how to understand the female arousal ladder and work with it instead of against it, how

• 21:57Speaker 06

  to make love to a woman so that what they're, what they're doing feels exquisite to her. There is no need for an orgasm gap. The orgasm gap exists because of a lack of knowledge, not because women come any less than men. The human body has over twenty kinds of orgasms it can experience. Gender doesn't matter at all. Your parts don't matter. We have the same parts. When you know essentially the recipes for how to get to each of these kinds of experiences and you try it a few times, you begin to have it. You activate the neural pathways that create the pleasures that you're trying to have. You've got to connect the

• 22:37Speaker 06

  brain to the body. And so much of our bodies are, are, are shut down in shame and pain and numbness rather than pleasure. Add to this, add to that the stress of modern living and the anxiety we live in and all the cortisol we're, you know, carrying around. Intimacy is the best solution for all of those problems. Because what does, what does intimacy do? It creates oxytocin. What is oxytocin? A cortisol modulator. Intimacy, and I like to call it orgasmic intimacy, very specifically because I want people to understand they have massive pathways to orgasmic pleasure. I have a friend, she's a sex educator, and

• 23:19Speaker 06

  she said, I'm doing an orgasm challenge for a year. Every day I'm having one, I'm having an orgasm every day for three hundred and sixty-five days. And I texted her back and I was like, well, can we talk about how I can have three hundred and sixty-five orgasms in a single day? Once you learn how, and everybody can do it, it's just, how do you learn how? How do you become massively orgasmic? Because every orgasm you have generates hormones, neurotransmitters, it reboots your nervous system. It's a vascular event. It oxygenates your brain. It lights up your somatosensory cortex. It, it, it, it launches a whole bunch

• 23:58Speaker 06

  of extra natural killer cells, the NK cells, that gobble up those zombie cells, those senescent cells that are running around in your body, beginning to create chronic disease. That's why you get two years of health and happiness span for every decade you keep having orgasmic intimacy.

• 24:16Speaker 05

  I love that. It's like big vitamin O.

• 24:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, I like that. That's good.

• 24:22Jonathan Fields?

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• 27:39Speaker 05

  Okay, say someone gets one of your books and it's like, okay, here are some things that I'd like to try. How, how do you advise people? What do you recommend to have that first conversation with their partner without it being like, here's what I want you to do, or you're doing it wrong, so do it this way? What, what makes it easy for them to get into that intimate conversation?

• 28:04Speaker 06

  Yeah. It's interesting that, you know how I said there's three pillars of great orgasmic intimacy that keeps getting better in your life? One is knowing passionate lovemaking techniques, hot sex techniques, the recipes. One is bedroom communication skills. And the other one is this regenerative intimacy, how to keep your parts working in good order over time, so you can keep having great orgasmic intimacy until the day you die, hopefully going out with the big vitamin O. That's a good way to die.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  Wouldn't that be awesome? I love that.

• 28:40Speaker 06

  It's so, hey, hashtag goals, right Cynthia?

• 28:46Speaker 06

  So what I explain, again, here's another map for you. Here's another strategic map to the pleasure. If you want to learn sex techniques, it's popcorn style. It's the same as trauma healing, which is like, just pick what you, what will work for you that you think intuitively might be the process that would be right for you now. You're gonna learn a lot, you're gonna do a lot of different types of healing. It could be somatic therapy, it could be EMDR, you know, it could be a talk therapy, it could be anything, hands-on, decine, G-spot, de-arming, whatever it might be. And you can try whatever you want. That's the same with sex techniques. I want to get better oral pleasuring. I want to learn those orgasmic intercourse techniques. I want to do this, I want to do that.

• 29:29Speaker 06

  I want to learn how to hold and be held, whatever it is. But bedroom communication skills has a very specific ascension model. You need to build a foundation and that all of the best techniques in the world won't do a darn thing if you don't have a free-flowing, really truthy, interactive connection with your lover.

• 29:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:57Speaker 06

  And the foundation is something that I wrote as a, as a pass along from my mentor, Dr. Patty Taylor, and I called it the Sexual Soulmate Pact, like an agreement pact, P-A-C-T. And it's really solving these problems. I don't know what I want, I just know what I'm getting isn't it, but I don't know what I want, so I can't really speak up. The second one is, I'm afraid to speak up because every time I do, my partner has an emotional crash out and sex is ruined. And so I'm stifled by my fear of their emotional response.

• 30:40Speaker 06

  Or what I want, maybe too kinky and I'm ashamed of it, and so I'm afraid to even talk about it. These are very, very common things. The other thing you run into in partnered couples who've been with each other for a while is, they get in the groove, right? They get in that, in that groove, and it gets boring. Good sex is a combination, this is the work of Dossie Easton, good sex is a combination of trust and safety, but that gets boring, so you have to have novelty and variety. So where you start is two parts.

• 31:17Speaker 06

  The first part is learning how to know what you want, ask for it, have your partner receive it graciously and appreciatively and encouragingly and simply. Got it, baby? Thank you. How's this? Little harder, a little softer? Oh, you like that? Oh, sure, no problem. That worked last time, not good today? Tell me what you want. And allowing especially the feminine to be very capricious in her desire. You know, the kitty cat to lioness range is vast with us. And so we can go from kitty cat to lioness in a single lovemaking session.

• 31:57Speaker 06

  And so our partners being there to really hold space for the true sexually self-expressed person makes them feel safe doing so and makes it sexy. And the Sexual Soulmate Pact, I want, I know we want to cover a vast conversation rather than go into all of these things. I think we're better off there. So you can download that. It's a free downloadable PDF. It's at sexualsoulmatepact.com. So once you get that going, and your partner looks at everything you're asking them, and this goes both ways, as just feedback to do a better job, like, I'm, there's, I'm not failing, I'm winning. Because what does our male body partner want?

• 32:42Speaker 06

  He wants to win and do a great job. He doesn't like to be wrong. In his world of our cultural miasma, he lives in a pecking order. If he's not up, he's down. And he doesn't want to be down, that hurts. So it's a way to get him to understand he's winning by having these conversations. And for the men listening who are like, no, that's actually my partner who won't talk to me. It doesn't matter, it really doesn't matter as much gender as it does creating the environment where it's safe for both of you. So once you've got that, then the next step is essentially, and you can do this explicitly

• 33:25Speaker 06

  or implicitly, I prefer explicit conversations, and not the like dirty explicit, but just the direct and informative kinds of conversations about where my desires are at this moment. Because every single day and every single moment, you are changing and evolving, and that affects your sex life, your desire, your appetite, what, what things turn you on right now, what things you're kind of bored with. It's a moving target, and when you look at it that way, like, there's no, there's no end. It's a journey, and you're lucky to have a journeyman with you, then that makes it really nice. So what you want is essentially a sex life bucket list. You want to have things that are your like go-tos, your favorites.

• 34:10Speaker 06

  Ooh, I love it when we lie down together and we make out, and you lather up my breasts with some breast oil, and I stroke you while we're kissing, and sometimes I just like it if you just tell me how beautiful I am and how sexy I am, and I tell you how much I love you. I like that encouragement and those words, like, I love to do that. And sometimes it's, I want to try that new position, headboard daddy, or chingalinga, or yab yum, or whatever it is.

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Those are great names.

• 34:42Speaker 06

  And aren't they so cute? I love to create sex positions that stimulate multiple erogenous zones at, at the same time, because I like to get people to really be able to hold a lot of pleasure and sensation. Feeling sensation is a practice, and you get better and better at that, too. All of these things are practices. So once you have a sex life bucket list, and you're like, let's do chingalinga, or let's do that thing that we always do, and it's our go-to, you know, we start with a yoni massage, and then I climb on top of you and drive you crazy and tell you a little dirty story, and then I just tantalize and tease you, and I get off on it, and it's so much fun, and then we go to sleep.

• 35:25Speaker 06

  Whatever it is, I mean, I got a million of those, right? I like to think up sexy bedroom date ideas. And so, once you have a sex life bucket list, and you go through your list, and you compare your notes, and you have As, Bs, and Cs, like, my As, here's my As, these are the things I want to learn, I want to, I want to de-armor my G-spot, I want to try female ejaculation, I'd like to try that intercourse couples vibrator. Okay, well, what I'd like to do is, I'd like to start using a prostate massager, because I've heard it's really healthy, and I want to become a multi-orgasmic man, and I've heard that male multiple orgasm is, without ejaculation is possible, and that using a prostate massage tool actually helps me feel up inside my body and hastens my discovery

• 36:10Speaker 06

  of that, so I'm going to start experimenting with that. And I'd also like to use a penis pump, a vacuum erection device, and not be ashamed to do it, because I'm feeling I'm getting a little soft, and I'd like to start reversing that atrophy that I can see with my aging. And so, okay, great, so these are things that are on our A-list, some of them you're going to do with me, some of them we're going to do solo, we're going to learn these things together. So let's, instead of having like dates for sex, let's strike that from our vocabulary. Let's not schedule sex, because that just feels like a forced thing. Let's schedule erotic play dates, pick something from our bucket list, and do it together.

• 36:47Speaker 05

  That sounds a lot more fun.

• 36:50Speaker 06

  A lot more fun.

• 36:52Speaker 05

  What I love about what you're saying is, you're talking about how we naturally are changing, and that's, that's okay, and let's make the most of it. It doesn't mean a decline. And that, I do think, you're right, Good Life Project listeners are growth-oriented, and we do like to learn and try things, so, but this whole kind of black hole of information, you're bringing this enthusiasm and lots of ideas, even just when you're naming some of the positions and some of the things to try, it just sparks this sense of, ooh, that sounds fun, let's try that. And, and it seems like that might help any of the disinclination to talk about it, or let's get too talky.

• 37:37Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Ah, fall, that cozy season where we swap the swimwear for sweaters and sunnies for scars. But before the Halloween decorations are put away or Thanksgiving table has been set, there's already holly jelly music playing in the grocery store, reminding you that the year is coming to a close. Time to kick end of year into high gear. When you use Apple Card with Apple Pay, you earn 2% daily cash back on all purchases, including food, decorations, gifts, and more. Get a head start on your end of year purchases. Apply for your Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today, and start using it

• 38:22Jonathan Fields?

  right away with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. Good Life Project is sponsored by Whatnot. So I love buying books, and for some reason, I especially love buying used books. I just had so much fun, literally minutes ago, I picked up the entire Hunger Games trilogy of books for only $11, and also got this beautiful thank you from the seller and a welcome from all the others in the chat. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, from beauty to luxury fashion, even cookies, and you almost never pay full price. Plus, what really gets me is the other side of the screen.

• 39:04Jonathan Fields?

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• 39:58Speaker 01

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• 40:07Speaker 05

  Tell us a little bit about your path. You said that your best sex came in your 60s. And I'm wondering what shifted in you at that point in your life to allow that to happen?

• 40:18Speaker 06

  Yeah. When I was 42, speaking of the 40s, I had been married to my husband for 11 years. And I had never had an orgasm from intercourse. I've had an orgasm from a vibrator, but I'd never had an orgasm with my husband. And I was tired of having mercy sex and doody booty. I was avoiding him for sex. He was miserable. We were in a platonic relationship. We had a beautiful little daughter at the time, and he was having an affair to get his needs met. And he came clean with me. And we thought, what are we going to do about this? And it

• 41:01Speaker 06

  was really the fact that I wasn't enjoying intercourse. We didn't have much skill. We really didn't know how to do all of the other things that are pleasurable. We hadn't learned yoni massage or expanded orgasm. I'd never even been really aware of my G-spot. I didn't understand female ejaculation. He didn't understand how to be a multi-orgasmic man and have full body heart gasms, brain gasms, energy orgasms, things like that. And we thought it was me. I just guess I can't have orgasms from intercourse. What are we going to do? At the time, we went to a marriage therapist and she said, well, you know, this is just kind of what happens. And you know, you can still be close.

• 41:44Speaker 05

  Was it, were you thinking, oh, it's me and it's because I'm 42?

• 41:49Speaker 06

  Not that I was 42, just that I'd never had.

• 41:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, because I think at that point, you still feel like, to me, that's a peak time. When you're like, I am still young enough. I still have a desire. But I'm hearing neither of you really, like you said, no skills. You didn't know.

• 42:04Speaker 06

  We didn't know. We didn't know. Blind leading the blind, behind closed doors. That was us. We live in the San Francisco Bay Area at the nexus of the sexual, you know, movement and human potential movements. And, and so we had access to, we were living in the Silicon Valley at the time, we had access to Human Awareness Institute, Sex, Love and Intimacy. We had access to ecstatic, loving Tantra workshops. We had access to orgasmic meditation. We had access to everything. And we went to our first sex workshops. It was so hard for me, Cynthia. Oh, gosh. I would have to, I would almost have like an emotional breakdown in the car on the way there. I was so nervous.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  Yeah. So back up a step. What had you go? You're like, our marriage is important. We're not willing to let it go. We're going to go do something difficult. What had you take that step?

• 42:57Speaker 06

  Two things. One, we're like your listeners. We're like, if we don't understand it, we got to go learn about it. Right? We just don't know. So we got to figure it out. So that was one. And the second thing is that we are really good partners together. I mean, we're fantastic parents. We've been business partners together. This is the 20th year of my company, Personal Life Media. And that 20, we've been together working in our businesses together for 20 years. He's brilliant. He's kind. He loves my ambition. I love his brain. He's sweet and good to me. He's the wind beneath my wings. He's

• 43:41Speaker 06

  a beautiful man. I didn't want to lose him over this frustration. And I thought, we don't know. We don't know what we're doing. Let's go learn. Because the therapists weren't getting us where we needed to go with the pleasure piece.

• 43:57Speaker 05

  Right.

• 43:58Speaker 06

  And that's what had us decide to enroll. It was very, very, very hard. I had, and oh, I look back at this, Cynthia, oh, my gosh. It's so funny. At 65, I turned 65 on Sunday. And gosh, I love my body right now. It's strong. I work out. Is it, do I have crepey skin? Do my boobs sag a little bit? Yeah, but I really feel beautiful. When I was 35 and 40, I thought I was fat and ugly. I didn't know why anybody would want me. It's crazy what our culture does to women around our body image issues.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  So how much of that perception or self-perception of how we feel about our bodies interferes with this orgasmic intimacy?

• 44:45Speaker 06

  Tons and tons and tons and tons. And it's also for men, too, especially around penis size shame, and erectile shame, and premature ejaculation shame, performance anxiety. That hurts everybody, too. Everybody's got a lot of performance anxiety. And anxiety is the killer of arousal, right? So I remember the first time I went to a workshop, and we had to do this, this workshop where everyone was supposed to sit in our little backjacks, and they guided us through this visualization. And we were supposed to remove articles of clothing if we felt comfortable. And I didn't feel comfortable. And there were, the age

• 45:28Speaker 06

  range of that workshop was 20s to 70s. So we were in a wide ranging workshop, gender balanced, 50/50, male and female presenting. And I hadn't taken anything off. And I like peeked. Everybody in the room was naked but me. There's fat people, skinny people, old people, young people, tall people, short people, wrinkly people, smooth people, dark people, white people. And I'm like, oh, my God, they're all so beautiful. What was I worried about? Like, it was edgy for me, Cynthia. It was so edgy. But boy, was it so expansive. Now I'm happy to be on nude beaches. I'm happy to be in nude, you know, like saunas and with mixed gender, right? It's like, all of us are beautiful. All of

• 46:12Speaker 06

  us look different. We are perfect exactly how we are. We live in a body bag. We got the luck of the draw on that stuff. If you, if you can't love yourself, how the heck is somebody else going to love you? That's RuPaul, right? I mean, so it really fixed me of all that stuff. Early in my, like 40s, it fixed me of those issues, which allowed me to take more risk with things like not worrying about, does my butt look too fat in this sex position? And learning how to, when those thoughts entered my mind, to let them go and love who I was. Those practices are very, very important. That's the desire,

• 46:56Speaker 06

  the self-love, the love of partner.

• 46:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, it sounds like, you know, when you described that scenario, I was like, talk about intimacy and vulnerability. And what I'm hearing is, in a way, it starts with us first. How do I be intimate with myself, respect and love what I've got, and vulnerable enough even in my own self to say, here's what turns me on. And I'm admitting it to myself. And now I want to own it and share it with my lover.

• 47:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:25Speaker 05

  So intimacy and vulnerability is kind of, seems required in so many areas of our lives. But it's, we're absolutely shut down around that. So I can see how people could take this in other areas of their life. Where else have I been intimate and vulnerable? And it's been a great thing. I know how to do that. I can bring that here with my clothes off.

• 47:47Speaker 06

  It's so juicy.

• 47:49Speaker 05

  It's so juicy.

• 47:50Speaker 06

  Vulnerability and truth telling.

• 47:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:53Speaker 06

  Once you break yourself of withholds, walking on eggshells, stuffing your feelings, covering it up, dismissing it, all the things that our culture has taught us, which is toe the line, behave, don't, don't say these things, don't, you know. Once you, once you actually move into, that was one of the things that really helped my husband and I was learning the expanded orgasm practice, going to these workshops, and, and starting to just tell each other the real truth about everything. And I have to say, my husband is so solid in himself and his confidence, that I, I was able to say anything. One of

• 48:33Speaker 06

  the things I had to tell him was that when he entered me, it took my turn on down. Being penetrated made me go, ugh. And that's because I'd had sexual trauma as a child. And over the years, I've learned a number of coping mechanisms that really helped me in my lovemaking partnership. One of them is that I, I take the insertion role. I actually put myself on my partner, rather than expect him to come inside me. That little bit of control, stop that trigger I had about being penetrated and coerced into penetration. And so many women have that.

• 49:17Speaker 05

  Susan, that is just such an exquisite awareness of yourself. And that's what I mean by you got intimate with yourself. You learned your own part. And it sounds like you and your husband, what so many of us, I think, need to do is get that cultural narrative out of the room and get into the actual intimacy, the conversation, the, the real thing. And I love that when you said a minute ago, like, the truth, and like, how sexy that is. That is exciting to me, for, for us to be able to get real with, with our own erotic nature, our own orgasmic and regenerative intimacy.

• 49:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 49:57Speaker 05

  So I have a couple more questions.

• 50:00Speaker 06

  Good. I like your question, Cynthia.

• 50:02Speaker 05

  Well, you know, I keep thinking about those seven years when I was single before I met Steve and how awful it was. And just, my sex life was just not happening. And so I'm wondering, you've given us so many great things for couples. What if you are solo?

• 50:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:21Speaker 05

  How do you start this regenerative intimacy with yourself, bring your own sex life alive?

• 50:27Speaker 06

  Yes. Well, the first thing is solo pleasuring.

• 50:32Speaker 06

  And I really like sex tools. And I like them for a number of reasons. The first reason that I like them is that there are there's over 20 different formats of sex tools. So I mentioned the intercourse vibrator. It's hands-free, it sits on the Mons. And it, there's a little ring that goes on the penis that as he enters you and gets closer to you, it turns, it kind of makes vroom, makes the vibrator go up and come down, up and come down. And that toggles your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system in a way that intensifies your orgasms and stacks them and gives you multiple orgasms. That's a neat couples toy.

• 51:17Speaker 06

  There are oscillators, air stimulators, thrusters, wands, vibrators of all kinds. There are prostate stimulators, strokers, suckers. You know, there's just like, oh, so many. And half of them now are like doing three things at once to you, which is good, because what that's doing technically, physiologically, is it's activating all that tissue in your genital systems, you know, even the penis. What, when you see a penis go from flaccid to erect, you're witnessing fast-acting hemodynamics, shooting blood down three little tubes in the penis very quickly so that it fills and locks off.

• 52:01Speaker 06

  When a woman is beginning her arousal, she has to wait for the blood to flow into her pelvic bowl and then seep into the nooks and crannies of the clitoral, urethral, and perineal sponges, which are essentially wrapped around, it's almost like if, if his penis is a banana, 50% of it sticks out, 50% of it goes down and toward his testicles. It looks like a tongue. The penis looks like a tongue. It doesn't look like a pole. It doesn't look like a rod. And that's why one of my orgasmic intercourse techniques, it's called the heart-tongue method. You bring your heart into your penis and you imagine it's a tongue instead of a piston.

• 52:45Speaker 06

  And it really changes how you interact with the vaginal cavern or the vaginal pocket, which is a flat thing, not an inside-out tube. It's not an inside-out penis. So giving people these, these pictures in their mind of kind of what they're going for and what they're doing with their bodies really helps. When you have all of this bananas' worth of tissue, like wrapped like a teardrop around your vaginal pocket in all these nooks and crannies, it takes a minute for the blood to flow in there. You have to relax, get out of your body, get into, get out of your head, get into your body, and let the arousal begin. It's about a 10, 15, 20-minute process. For most couples who are on that, sex is intercourse.

• 53:28Speaker 06

  I've got an erection, I'm supposed to penetrate her. I'm supposed to pump away. I have an ejaculation, we pray she comes and we're done. And now I'm snoozing or eating a sandwich. That's kind of what a lot of people have in their sex lives. And that's, that's really how you make a baby. It's not lovemaking. And so when you allow the time for all these nooks and crannies to get activated, what you're do, and you use these different stimulatory tools. The genitals have mechanoreceptors that like this tissue to be pulled and stretched and moved. They have thermoreceptors, which like warmth and heat.

• 54:11Speaker 06

  They like vibration because it's more of a surface sensation. Oscillation goes a little deeper into the tissue. You've got the outer labia, the inter labia, the Mons, the vestibule, the, the anterodermal sphincter, the vaginal cavern. You've got the urethral sponge, the perineal sponge. You've got all this tissue. It might feel like shame, pain, or numbness right now, but you play with it a while and it, it transforms into pleasure. So solo pleasuring really allows you to optimize your orgasms, become multi-orgasmic, have different kinds of orgasms from different locations, different techniques, different objects of desire, like these tools.

• 54:56Speaker 06

  So one of the best things to do as a solo pleaser is to explore that cavern, expand those orgasms, plump up those lips, do all of those things repeatedly so that you're carving those neural pathways into that somatosensory cortex so that your brain is lighting up and going, oh, that feels good. Ooh, that feels even better. Like, all of a sudden, it's all feeling so good now. If you end up being lucky enough to have a partner. And remember, there's different kinds of partners. There's, there's the booty call partners. There's your neighbor who's really hot and good in bed, but you'd never want to have him as a boyfriend. There's research partners.

• 55:41Speaker 06

  I want to learn the expanded orgasm practice or things like that. Will you have that practice with me? And we learn the steps together, but I don't want intercourse with you. I don't want other thing. Can you hold a safe container with me? Right, there's that kind of a relationship. There's all kinds of relationships that you can have with intimate partners.

• 56:04Speaker 05

  What I'm hearing, so here's, just to kind of put this back in how I'm framing this, you're really offering just two, two things, I'm thinking, just very creative, like try things. Get the tools, have fun with it, be playful, even if it's just you. And the second thing is, you know, when you talked about the benefits of this, of sex and, and keeping that part of our bodies well-oiled and in good shape, that together is really motivating to me when I think about, I'm thinking, I'm going to just tell you something that I'm shocked by. I never had a sex tool, sex toy, until I met Steve. Even all those years of being single.

• 56:49Speaker 05

  And I think of myself as a pretty courageous, brave, try things, go out there, do things person in some ways. So I, I bring that up because I imagine there are some people listening who might be like, oh, no, I'm not going into a sex store. I'm not going to do that. But you make it seem really fun and creative and like, oh, okay, this is, not, not to make it, I don't know, like I'm kind of a workout. I'm going to work on this and, and work on my pleasure as something I deserve to have and I want to have. And then imagine you're kind of lit up and attractive and bringing more of that into your life.

• 57:27Speaker 06

  Sexual vitality is so, it just, oh, attractive and magnetic. Yeah, your sexual vitality and your overall vitality are two sides of another coin in your life. The more orgasms you have, the more you light that, all of those systems up. It doesn't matter whether you're partnered or solo. You get the same benefits of orgasmic intimacy with yourself as you do with a partner. There's one thing that, that goes a little missing. And that is the oxytocin production is much more amplified with a partner. But if you have a dog or a cat or a horse or a pony or, you know, whatever, and you pet your animals

• 58:09Speaker 06

  and you hug your friends, you can really generate oxytocin from that as well.

• 58:15Speaker 05

  Susan, you know, one more thing I want to say before we, we wrap up, when you just talked about these things that, for longevity, and it sounds like you're, you have an agenda or a purpose for, for longevity. But you're the first person I've heard talk about longevity that makes it appealing. It's like, why live as long as you can? Because you're having fun, like you are, and you're learning and you're growing and you're not done. You're just such a great example of, of that life vitality, the sexual vitality, a full range of vitality. And it feels like a lot of the things you've talked about are just really something I can't wait to learn more about. The soulmate pact and the sex bucket list.

• 58:59Speaker 05

  Thanks for those resources. We could talk for so much longer because you've already given us so much, just to get us going. Thank you for that. In this container of Good Life Project, if I bring up the phrase to live a good life, and I think I might know what would come up for you, but what comes up for you to live a good life?

• 59:18Speaker 06

  Oh, gosh. Ah, one of my mentors was Dr. Deborah Anapol. She wrote a book called The Seven Laws of Love. She's passed away since then. But what she, she taught me, the heart is a muscle in a door and it needs to be worked. And one of the things that I have loved about my 60s is the wisdom that I have and how I can really

• 59:44Speaker 06

  Help so many people live a happier life. They trust me, they ask me questions, they come to me for advice and guidance. And that is, that's my love. That's my love is how I love is I love to help people and activate them and move them from fear to pleasure and help them with their lives. And so I think that's probably what it is.

• 1:00:09Speaker 05

  That's wonderful. Thank you.

• 1:00:11Jonathan Fields?

  So there's one image from this conversation I haven't been able to shake. Susan talked with Cynthia about arousal, kind of like a ladder with the first few rungs set really far apart, a heavy lift before anything gets easier. While for a lot of men, it actually works more like an escalator. Once you see intimacy that way, a lot of frustration between partners, it stops looking like rejection and starts looking like timing. Three other things from this one are staying with me. The first is the arousal ladder itself, right? That early stretch takes real time. It isn't a sign anything's wrong. The second is what Susan called the sexual soulmate pact. This idea that you can't use any technique in the world if your partner and you haven't

• 1:00:53Jonathan Fields?

  built the foundation to actually say what you want. And the third is her reframe of the sex life bucket list, turning, we should have sex into erotic play dates that you actually choose together. So here's what maybe you want to try this week. Pick one of the things off your own list, something you've said that you'd get to eventually, and just name it out loud to your partner or to yourself, or if you're solo, not a plan, just start with the naming side of it. And hey, before you leave next week, we're sitting down with Scott Harrison to talk about how 20 years and one story told the right way turned into a movement that has brought clean water to tens of millions of people who'd never had it. And also how it's affected him and his family along the way.

• 1:01:35Jonathan Fields?

  Be sure to follow Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss that or any upcoming episodes. And do me a quick favor, share this episode with just one person who you know needs to hear what Susan and Cynthia talked about today, or leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. It helps us get discovered and bring more people into the conversation. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Special thanks to Cynthia Morris for guest hosting today's episode. Editing help by Troy Young. Chris Carter drafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already, go ahead and follow us wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss a conversation. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

• 1:02:24Speaker 03

  This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Ah, fall. That cozy season where we swap the swimwear for sweaters and sunnies for scarves. But before the Halloween decorations are put away or Thanksgiving table's been set, there's already holly jolly music playing in the grocery store, reminding you that the year is coming to a close. Time to kick end of year into high gear. When you use Apple Card with Apple Pay, you earn 2% daily cash back on all purchases, including food, decorations, gifts, and more. Get a head start on your end of year purchases. Apply for your Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today and start using it right away with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

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