#376 - Exiled Neuroscientist: “The Vatican Tried to Recruit Me” | Mario Beauregard

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Mario Beauregard, PhD, is a cognitive neuroscientist who studies the neuroscience of consciousness and mystical experience, including a study investigating the brain activity of Carmelite nuns. He is co-author of the book 'The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul'. SPONSORS http://amentara.com/go/dj - Use code DJ22 for 22% off. https://rag-bone.com - Use code DANNY & get 20% off sitewide. https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/zralgyl0 - Download CashApp today! https://chubbiesshorts.com/danny - Use code DANNY for 20% off. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS The Spiritual Brain - https://a.co/d/0cZDv6gn https://www.drmariobeauregard.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Dr. Beureguard's childhood mystical experience 03:52 - Discovering everything is connected as one 07:08 - Mario "downloaded" his life's mission 09:54 - Mario's failed journey to become a priest 15:44 - Mario's second mystical experience 21:08 - What Mario saw in Heaven 23:30 - Mario's biological markers say he's 20 years younger 29:19 - How Mario became a neuroscientist 30:07 - The roots of modern science 31:02 - When science lost its spiritual connection 34:27 - Testing memory molecules for Pfizer 36:00 - Pfizer pushed ineffective Alzheimer's drug in 1994 41:12 - Why Mario fled Canada during the pandemic 43:00 - Justin Trudeau paid off court judges during the pandemic 46:31 - The Catholic Church tried to bribe Mario 53:38 - Why the church is pushing new science 01:01:10 - Carmelite nuns study 01:07:00 - 1% of seizures trigger mystical experiences 01:09:57 - Johns Hopkins psychedelics + religion study 01:13:07 - Mario tested all drugs before experimenting 01:14:44 - Human psyche vs. consciousness 01:16:55 - "Consciousness" is the scientific God 01:21:56 - Non-physical information 01:25:17 - Where thoughts come from 01:30:14 - Holotropic breathwork to expand consciousness 01:34:58 - New consciousness research 01:38:02 - Who's funding consciousness research 01:40:11 - Studies on people who survived death 01:44:58 - Holosynthesis 01:49:33 - What happens when you "overdose" psychedelics 01:52:20 - Church-sanctioned psychedelic use 01:55:57 - Humans are behaving like robots 02:02:54 - Joan Jett's spiritual transformation 02:05:37 - NDEs vs. life reviews 02:07:21 - Memories of past lives 02:15:35 - How to expand consciousness using sound 02:21:30 - Bufo: DMT times 1,000 02:24:39 - Mapping neurological effects across religions 02:26:25 - The Dalai Lama's lesson on attention 02:32:04 - What the brains of uncontacted tribes might look like 02:37:55 - Explanation of the universe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Danny Jones?

  You can eat well, work out, take supplements, and try to get enough sleep, and you still have no idea whether it's actually changing how your body is aging. But that's what makes True Diagnostics True Age Test really interesting. True Age uses epigenetics, basically chemical tags on your DNA that change with things like sleep, stress, diet, exercise, and your environment to estimate how your body is aging. Its methods have been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals and developed with researchers at Harvard, Yale, and Duke. You receive your biological age, how quickly you're aging, and information about how areas like your heart, brain, and liver may be aging, plus recommendations around nutrition, exercise, sleep, supplements, and lifestyle. And it's simple. An at-home finger prick, send the prepaid kit back, and your personalized report arrives online in about three to four weeks.

• 0:45Danny Jones?

  So if you're serious about longevity and curious about how your body is really aging, then this is one of the easiest ways to find out. Right now, go to trudiagnostic.com and use the code DANJONES for 20% off your entire order. That's T R U D I A G N O S T I C dot com. Use the code DANJONES and get 20% off.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  What's the secret to being a great host this season? Keeping things deliciously simple, like mixing Simply Cranberry into a festive drink as guests arrive, or serving up a warm mug of Simply Apple on a chilly night. That means less time behind the scenes and more time in the moment with everyone. Crafted with real fruit, Simply juices and fruit drinks make any holiday drink effortless, inviting, and completely delicious. Simply. Say yes to simple.

• 1:44Danny Jones?

  Dr. Mario, how do you spell it?

• 1:45Speaker 02

  Beauregard. It's French, French-Canadian.

• 1:48Danny Jones?

  Beauregard.

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Beauregard.

• 1:50Danny Jones?

  Beauregard.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  Nice look. This is the translation.

• 1:53Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  Nice look.

• 1:53Danny Jones?

  I'll let you do the pronunciation then. Nice to meet you.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Nice to meet you.

• 1:57Danny Jones?

  Thank you for coming. I'm excited to talk to you today. Before we start, can you please lay out your academic background and everything that you study for folks who are listening?

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Okay. But before telling you that,

• 2:11Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  I need to tell you a bit about my own story, where I was born, a mystical experience that happened to me very young, because that explains what I did later on.

• 2:22Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:22Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 2:23Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Okay. So I was born... Uh, in a small town named Granby, but uh, uh, about fifty thousand people. That was the, the nearest ci- city, important city. But my parents were farmers for generations and, you know, they, and um, so my, my father was raising pigs and some cows, uh, chicken, some rabbits, some rabbits and so on and so forth. We were living in uh, the town where we were living, we were about three hundred people. To get the picture, I, I was born in nineteen sixty-two countryside, it's like the US or.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  So uh, farmers and um, at school, I um, I was skipping uh, some, I, I needed, I didn't uh, need to stay at schools and to follow all the program because uh, the, the, the teachers told my uh, mother, who was in charge, my, my father didn't care about that because he went to school for four years only.

• 3:28Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Uh, so he was working very hard at the farm and so my mother uh, said to the teachers, I don't want him to skip too many grades because he will end up like at thirteen at the university.

• 3:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Wouldn't be socially good for him, I guess. So they said, okay, but uh, he will skip at least a few years. He need to skip, and what I did, uh, I skipped a few years and then I stopped going to school and I went working across the world. I went to Israel to work with us, uh, handicapped children. Uh, I've done several things for a few years. I stopped studying.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  I experienced something very special when I was eight years old. So we had the farm, uh, we had fields, uh, where the cows were, we had the pigs and so on and so forth, but we had also a small forest. Uh beside the field and uh small uh it was quite large. And I liked to go that in that forest because to me it felt mysterious. I was attracted to it, so I I was going there from time to time and alone usually because my I had. I have a sister, she's three years younger and she was too young and it was the summer break nineteen seventy.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  I was eight years old and I felt that I had to go to the mysterious forest. Okay, and it was a beautiful day uh like like today, sunny, hot, sticky. And I decided to go and when I was there, I I walked for what seemed to be perhaps a few hours. And I was only eight, so I became tired, obviously, it was hot and I found a big gray rock. And I decide it was a it attracted me, I decided to jump on it. And sit on it for uh perhaps a few minutes, just to take a break and I did. And after a few minutes, I was sitting there, I started to have the impression that the woods, the trees.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  They were vibrating, uh the cows that I could see between some trees, same thing, the grass. Myself included and the big gray rock, we were all vibrating. And like if I was under the influence of psychedelic drug, because I studied psychedelic drugs later as a neuropharmacologist. But at eight years old, I obviously I didn't know.

• 6:03Danny Jones?

  What did you think was going on at eight years old?

• 6:06Speaker 02

  I felt the presence of God.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  To be honest, I was.

• 6:13Danny Jones?

  Were you religious when you were young?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  My parents were Roman Catholic, I was an altar boy, I started at six and I finished at fourteen. So my parents were very uh religious people, but they were no they were not mystics. They didn't know anything about mystical experiences, they were simply attending churches on Sundays. Like most people.

• 6:35Danny Jones?

  And you were an altar boy?

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Yes, I was, but nobody told me ever about a mystical experience.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Yep, that's I I realized later on that that's what happened. That was my first mystical experience. I've had a series throughout my life until recently. That was the first one, but that was probably the most influential because. So I realized that I was the the little Mario was part of a one all. Uh, I don't know what was the term. Uh, every I I I had an insight that everything is interconnected and and it's even more than that. Everything is one and I am one, I'm part of it. The the hall of, you know, the mystics.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Or if you take psychedelic drugs, sometimes people will report the. Or if you have a near death experience, people will sometimes report that kind of experience. So I I've had that experience and I realized that I was not really a human being. I was the all within a physical body.

• 7:50Danny Jones?

  You felt as if you were connected to

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Everything.

• 7:53Danny Jones?

  Everything in the world.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And then I left the the the big gray rock. I started to walk back, going back to uh home because I didn't want my parents to worry about where I was. Because I disappeared for a few hours. And so I went back to to uh to home. But I knew that I couldn't talk about the experience to my parents because they would not understand this. They would think that I was a bit crazy. They would bring me to the doctor. So I knew and I heard you never talk to this to your parents, never ever. They're deceased now. Now they know. Now they know because I'm talking about this to you.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  They knew, of course, from the other side, but that's what happened. And in the hours and days and I would say a few weeks following this experience. I started to, today we would say, download my life plan, my mission on earth, what I was going to do.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Imagine and so at eight I realized that I would become a I had to become a brain scientist. Now we see a neuroscientist. And that I would be involved in a global transformation on planet earth. I would play a key role in that. And that I would meet with colleagues around the world in various countries and would create a movement that I've called and others have called the post materialist movement from materialist science to post materialist science. In two thousand and fourteen, we published, you know, a group, a bunch of scientists in various fields,

• 9:44Speaker 02

  published the manifesto for post materialist science. So I realized the prophecy. It was accomplished. And everything I've done in my life as an adult, as a scientist, or as a human being, was related to what I experienced at eight years old. Do you understand what I mean?

• 10:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Strange, yeah, but that's the truth. And then I I heard that I would become famous internationally.

• 10:15Danny Jones?

  You heard that?

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:16Danny Jones?

  From where?

• 10:18Speaker 02

  The voice.

• 10:19Danny Jones?

  The voice, you had a voice?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it felt like a voice in my head. Not my own voice, not the inner dialogue or monologue, the an external voice.

• 10:33Danny Jones?

  That you had to communicate this message across humanity?

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Exactly. That I it was eight, I was eight. And twelve years later, so I skipped school, I skipped grades. I went to work in Israel with handicapped children. And back then, it's nineteen seventy nine, I'm seventeen. And then Palestinians and Israelis could live together. They were not fighting directly as like now during the last few years. So I was working, helping handicapped children who were Israelis, but also Palestinians. And Israelis, doctors and Palestinian doctors were and nurses were working together back then.

• 11:21Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Yes, it has changed tremendously. So I did that for a year. I was I spent a year in Israel.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  But I I became a deeply spiritual person and my my uh the priest wanted me to become a priest because I was an altar boy. So my parents were poor farmers, not rich farmers, small operation. He came to see my parents one night, I remember, and he said to my parents, this guy, this kid is quite bright and I would like him to go to the seminary so he becomes a priest, a Roman Catholic priest. He won't stay a priest for long because he's too bright. He will become uh he will move very rapidly up upward the the ranks and he will end up at least as a cardinal.

• 12:16Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  He so the priest told my parents and he said and he showed the money on the table and he said, I'm going to pay for him to become a priest, a member of our church. And my parents.

• 12:32Danny Jones?

  Who do you have to pay?

• 12:33Speaker 02

  The seminary.

• 12:34Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  This was not free, you know, you have to, it's a school.

• 12:39Danny Jones?

  Is it? Oh, it's like training.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like training. It was the the level bef- before you become a real priest because we were between uh I was eleven when I went, eleven to fifteen. So it's not like you're between sixteen and twenty to become a or twenty-two, a real priest. It's the level before.

• 12:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  It's like a testing ground, if you will.

• 13:00Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  So my parents were honored because they they saw the the priest was a very important person in society back then, like the the doctor. They accepted the deal. And I went to the seminary for five years to become a priest, but.

• 13:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  This didn't go well because I was.

• 13:20Danny Jones?

  Where was this?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Where uh the in Grand Bay, where the hospital was where I was born, Grand Bay, Quebec. It's in a region called, we have seventeen regions, I believe, in province of Quebec. So it's a region called Eastern Township.

• 13:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  And it has a border with Vermont.

• 13:38Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  And New Hampshire and.

• 13:40Danny Jones?

  No, you're talking about.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where we are, northeast. So I went there for five years, but I started to ask too many questions for the priests, the fathers, because I was, like you doing your job, Danny, you're asking questions, good questions, sometimes tough questions. That's what I was doing when I was eleven. So the priest said, if you want to become a good priest, you do not ask questions, you obey what we're teaching you. So I was asking questions like, who was there when the Jesus was born? He was not able to be aware of everything that was going on around?

• 14:22Speaker 02

  Did he tell these future disciples, disciples, everything about what he experienced? He was only a baby, he couldn't talk. Who were taking notes of everything? You know, that kind of question. So they were telling me, too many questions. Obey. Don't ask questions. But I keep doing this for five years. And at the end, the father in charge of the seminary said, don't become a priest. You cannot become a priest because you don't obey. So I told him about science and I don't, I didn't tell him about my mystical experience, but I told him, I feel like I have to become a scientist. That's my, he said, to become a scientist.

• 15:07Danny Jones?

  You're not cut out for this, bud.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  No, but at first he said, you're, you're so bright that you could become, you know, you could occupy the top level in the Vatican eventually. Who knows? You might become the pope, the next pope. But this didn't turn to be true. And I became a scientist because of that. So that was the beginning. I had my life plan. So I knew which kind of experiments I should do.

• 15:39Danny Jones?

  The Amanita muscaria mushroom has been a medicinal staple in human history for centuries. It's not psilocybin or psychedelic. I use it because it's more functional than weed and it provides stress relief like I've never experienced before. And it's totally legal. And that's why microdosing Amanita has been so popular. I would have never even touched Amanita if it weren't for Amantara. They actually educate people instead of pushing product. Their whole purpose is self-healing without synthetic prescriptions. Amanita is not a high or a trip. It's like a nervous system reset. It relieves stress. It's even been used as an alcohol and marijuana replacement without next day brain fog or downsides. Amantara is the trusted Amanita supplier in the United States and it's totally legal, ethically sourced and lab tested.

• 16:24Danny Jones?

  This isn't a side hustle or scam. It's a serious operation. Real Amanita tastes natural like a tea. No synthetics or additives. There's no weird edge or synthetic vibe. I take a few of these capsules most days after work and it makes a house full of screaming crazy toddlers far more bearable. It's like having infinite patience. Imagine being in the most stressful environment possible and not feeling triggered at all. That's what Amanita does for me. If you're curious about Amanita muscaria, Amantara is the place to start. Amantara's 500 milligram capsules and gummies are consistent and beginner friendly. Two to three capsules is a great starting point. Check out the gentle relaxing effects of Amanita muscaria.

• 17:02Danny Jones?

  Go to amentara.com/go/dj and use my code DJ22 for 22% off your first order. Again, that's A M E N T A R A dot com slash go slash DJ and use the code DJ22 for 22% off your first order.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  But there was a second experience that was crucial. When I went to Israel, I talked about earlier about Israel. I became sick because I drank the water. I was not careful. I was 17 back then and. The nurses, the doctors told me, you shouldn't drink water. You should drink water in a bottle, but no, not in the well. Or I didn't care and I got very sick for an entire week. I was throwing up, I was, I had fever and a nurse from Switzerland, the German portion of Switzerland, where I worked, incidentally.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  She took care of me and, but I became very, very sick when I came back from Israel. One and a half years later. And the doctors didn't know what I had. I became infected. My brain became infected and my entire body because of I contracted three different brands of viruses through the infection. And it affected my, my brain profoundly and my entire body. Have you, do you know about Dr. Eben Alexander?

• 18:41Danny Jones?

  No.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  And his, okay, because.

• 18:43Danny Jones?

  What is his first name?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Eben, E B E N, Alexander the third.

• 18:47Danny Jones?

  No.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Neurosurgeon, famous neurosurgeon from Harvard, trained at Harvard.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  And yeah, that's Eben, my friend.

• 18:57Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 18:57Speaker 02

  And Eben got very sick. He was the, the most materialist, the greatest atheist on planet, one of the greatest atheists. As he was trained as a neurosurgeon, he only believed in physical matter. Until he contracted a viral infection and that nearly kills him. And he's had a major.

• 19:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, you know what? I have heard of this guy before.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. He wrote Proof of Heaven and other bestsellers and yeah. And his colleagues didn't recognize him after that. And same thing for his wife. She said, you're not my husband anymore. And she decided to leave because he was totally transformed. And from the, the, the, the most radical atheist on the planet, he became the most spiritual person on the planet. And now he's touring the world in the United States. And he lives in Virginia with his new wife, Karen.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  And so I know him very well. The same thing happened to me, pretty much. And so I became very, very sick. I I had to leave university for an entire year. I stayed in a bed like somebody dying from terminal cancer or AIDS. And nobody knew what was happening. And my parents were, I I returned to.

• 20:30Danny Jones?

  So what was the, there was three viruses you said you contracted? What, do you know what they were?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  Yes, but it took seven years to an expert on tropical infection. He found out in Hotel Dure, a major hospital in Montreal. So there were cytomegalovirus or virus Epstein-Barr. And another one that was a long time ago. And there were five overall, you know, belonging to three different categories. And it explained why my brain, my my brain was being destroyed. Why I, there was inflammation in my entire body.

• 21:11Danny Jones?

  How old were you?

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Uh, twenty now. And it began when I was nineteen and then twenty. And so I just, I I couldn't go to university anymore. So I decided to go, but I had no choice. I I went back to my parents' home and I lay down a bed for a year. Without being able to eat, I was able to drink a bit.

• 21:33Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  No, not able to walk. And I thought my life is over. And I didn't understand why it was over at nineteen, the beginning of my twenties. While I had my mystical experience at eight, it didn't fit. And.

• 21:51Danny Jones?

  What did the doctors say?

• 21:53Speaker 02

  They couldn't identify anything because they didn't think about it. And they were only regular doctors and or they had other specialties, but they didn't think about. You know, the guy I met seven years after that, he was a world leading expert on tropical infections. So he he was quite unique. So you don't find doctors like that everywhere.

• 22:17Speaker 02

  He found out and he told me he could explain all the symptoms I experienced and why I nearly and he said with your profile in the blood they found you know they did very sophisticated tests and they were able to identify all the viral factors and and he said when you have that in principle you die my friend and said I don't understand why you didn't die but you know what happened to me I went to heaven in a way I've had a near death experience and over there they said I know that some viewers will find it a bit outrageous but they said

• 23:00Speaker 02

  that's part of your life mission my friend you have to go through this

• 23:07Speaker 02

  very difficult experience and I mentally they were they were it was telepathically I didn't have a physical body I had like a light body if you will a lighter form of it was me but differently and I was there was a light being taking care of me

• 23:25Danny Jones?

  A light being?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:27Danny Jones?

  Wow. What did it look like?

• 23:30Speaker 02

  As a human but you couldn't see the eyes because it was too bright and the the mouth but it was speaking telepathically to me.

• 23:42Danny Jones?

  Saying what?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  That's what I'm going to tell you.

• 23:45Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  You signed for it you don't remember it you signed for it before your incarnation.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  And I said what he said yeah he she because it was kind of both genders at the same time not a man not a woman a more I would say more evolved spiritual being that's all I know and he said she said.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  That said, you signed for it, you don't remember it, but now you will. And it showed me proof of that in a way, okay? And I said telepathically, what is the relationship between what I experienced when I was eight years old? My mission and now I'm dying, almost dying. What's the end goal of this? It's like a nightmare. And it said, no, no, no, no, you're not going to die. You're going to access the full life mission program now. And we'll help you to get way better, my friend.

• 24:56Speaker 02

  And you don't believe me, but in a few years from now, you'll be better than ever. And you will go very late in life, you will have lots of energy. And I'm sixty three years old now. And biologically, I did some testing. I'm like at the end of the forty, forty eight, forty nine biologically.

• 25:18Danny Jones?

  What do you mean biologically? What kind of testing did you do?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  I tested various biochemicals in my hormones and all kind of stuff. So we have norms, you know?

• 25:27Danny Jones?

  Like what, like, can you extrapolate on that? Like, what type of test was it?

• 25:31Speaker 02

  Sexual hormones, like testosterone.

• 25:34Danny Jones?

  Like you had, you had a blood panel done where they just tested your blood?

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, for various markers in the brain and stuff like that. So chronologically, on paper, I was born in nineteen sixty two.

• 25:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  I'm sixty three years old, I'll turn sixty four in July. But biologically, not on paper, I'm more like forty eight, forty nine, fifty years old. This is what I mean.

• 25:58Danny Jones?

  Okay, so.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  So some people do that, we have that in society as well. People who train or people.

• 26:05Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  In my case, I only use consciousness, but I'll tell you later.

• 26:10Danny Jones?

  Um, do you do a lot of physical exercise? Do you keep track of your diet? Do you?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Uh, the diet, yes, but.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  After I nearly died, I switched, I changed my life totally. And I started to do exercise, but I haven't done exercise because I'm a scientist and I'm way too busy for it. But now I'm going back to, I've been working in Switzerland for the last few years. And now I'm going back in a few days from now to province of Quebec, where I was born, Canada, and I'm going back to the gym.

• 26:45Danny Jones?

  Oh, good for you.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  But the program, of course, will be adapted for a guy that is officially sixty-three.

• 26:51Danny Jones?

  So, other than your hormone levels, what other specific markers did they test that said that you're really forty and not sixty?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Omega three levels and all sorts of biochemicals that link various molecules together. And I cannot give you all the scientific names, but it was a screen up, a screen, a screening of, you know, by a clinical, a clinic specialized in anti-aging in Montreal.

• 27:23Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  So they know what they have to look for, you know, to see how old are really you. So like you're, let's say you're thirty-eight, but perhaps you're biologically, on paper, thirty-eight, but biologically you may be thirty, thirty-two, depending on how you eat, do you train? So, so people who are ninety years old, sometimes they're not ninety years old, they, on paper, yes, but they may be eighty years old, depending on their lifestyle. So you see what I mean?

• 27:55Danny Jones?

  What's the baseline? That's the question. How do you measure the baseline of that?

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Oh, they, they.

• 27:59Danny Jones?

  One of the interesting things about human beings is that we've been living the same lifespan, as long as recorded history. We've been living, as long as there's no sort of exterior intervention, like, like bloodshed, or like disease or plague, like we'll, we will live the same lifespan.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  Yes, about, unless you do something else. You use consciousness, which is the greatest force in the universe, with love, spiritual love. And that's what, during my.

• 28:28Danny Jones?

  You're getting all woo-woo on me early here, Mario. You gotta lay the bait, you gotta lay the fundamentals here. So how to explain?

• 28:37Speaker 02

  But we were talking about my experience, my neoderm experience.

• 28:39Danny Jones?

  Okay, oh, yes, yes, yes.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  That's where I learned everything. They gave me the information. They, I received it. And they told me, well, you now, from now on, you will be very psychic and deeply spiritual, and you will not lose the connection with spiritual worlds. We'll be there. You just call us, and you'll feel it. You'll be guided all the way. And I came back, and as they said, after a few months, I was able to leave the bed, to walk, to start eating a bit. It was like a miraculous healing. And so remember the doctor, the expert told me seven years after that that I should have died?

• 29:27Speaker 02

  I did not, because I was help. And they gave me the entire research program of my future career as a neuroscientist, believe it or not.

• 29:37Danny Jones?

  Wow. I love when it gets cold outside because it gives me the excuse to wear my Rag & Bone pants. I've been wearing their clothes for a while, but Rag & Bone's infused denim is on a whole nother level. I'm getting older and my body is changing, my style is changing, and I don't have the patience for stiff cardboard jeans anymore. When I put on their infused denim for the first time, it honestly ruined all the other pairs of jeans I own for me. The fit was perfect, structured without feeling tight, and the comfort was ridiculous. They felt broken in from day one. They move with you and they keep their shape, and they develop character the longer you wear them. And no matter what your style, slim, straight, relaxed, or athletic, there's a cut that fits you perfectly. I highly recommend the athletic fit. But the real magic is in the wash.

• 30:20Danny Jones?

  Each pair goes through this eight-step over-dye process, so the color has depth and texture you usually only see in super-premium denim. And over time, it gets even better, like the jeans are aging with you. This is Rag & Bone doing what they do best. Two decades of denim obsession packed into a pair that you'll reach for every single day. It's time to upgrade your denim with Rag & Bone. For a limited time, our listeners are getting 20% off their entire order using the code DANIE at rag-bone.com. That's 20% off at rag-bone.com using the promo code D A N N Y. When they ask where you heard about them, please help support the show and tell them we sent you. So how did you go out? How did you become a neuroscientist? Where did you study? And?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Ah, the, I studied at the University of Montreal, which is a medical school, which is one of the best schools in the world for neuroscience. And we have two, two major schools in, in Montreal. The University of Montreal, the French university versus McGill University, the Harvard of the North in Canada. McGill, McGill started a football program in nineteen, eighteen seventy-five. And back then they were playing against Harvard, Princeton, college football. They didn't call it college football, but that was the beginning of football in North America.

• 31:38Danny Jones?

  Okay, so one of the things I wanted to get you to explain to folks.

• 31:44Danny Jones?

  The fundamental, the fundamental framework of material science, right? Has its roots deep in the foundation of science right, right now. How did this happen?

• 31:56Speaker 02

  It's been like that for, for centuries, about four centuries, four, five. What it, it has been with us for a few centuries, but during the entire history of the humankind, it was not materialism. It was people knew back in antiquity.

• 32:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Or I'm a, I have native blood. I'm an Algonquin from my father's side, Abenaki.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Warriors, spiritual warriors. Don't provoke me.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  I'm just kidding. But yeah, that's true. And for the entire history of humanity, people were connected spiritually, except during the last four, five centuries. And what happened is that the Vatican told the founding fathers of modern science like Galileo, Galilei, Galilei, Descartes, French philosopher, mathematician, Isaac Newton, and so on and so forth. Study the material world, the physical world, and leave us.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  The spiritual world, to us theologians, philosophers, priests. Otherwise, you'll get burned. We'll, you know, we'll kill you. That was very clear. And the, so the scientists, the founding fathers of science, like Galilei, for instance, he didn't have a choice if he wanted to live. So he accepted the deal as the others. They didn't have choice. Because the church, the Roman Catholic Church, was so powerful back then, uh, that even kings could not do anything about, you know, they, they were the most powerful. So the scientists, if they wanted to remain alive, they accepted the deal. That's what happened.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Not, and in reality, these, uh, grand figures like Galilei, Descartes, Newton, they were all deeply religious men, in fact, and spiritual. But they understood that they didn't have to, they didn't want to, uh, do something that the church didn't want. So, okay, they accepted to study what was called, uh, the material or physical world. They used their enormous brain power to investigate the material structure of the universe. That's how it started, really. But, you know, uh,

• 34:36Speaker 02

  it's coming back. We're, we're the, uh, we're seeing the end of materialism. Uh, materialism is, or physicalism, if you will, is still dominant to a certain extent in the academic world around the planet, across the globe. But in 2000, you know, um, the project I, I proposed to, um, it was first proposed, you know, I was at the University of Montreal, the, the medical school, I have a particular history. I was fighting the establishment because I was a neuropharm- a trained neuropharmacologist. So an expert on brain molecules. You can ask anything about brain molecules. I'm the expert.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  The PhD in neuropharmacology. The medical school, the directors, the dean, they wanted me to make deals with Pfizer, with Big Pharma, to bring money to the university, to bring money to, you know, research funds. Because universities take a certain percentage of your grants. You know, for administration.

• 35:48Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  You know, that sometimes 10, sometimes 20%. It's a tax. And so the...

• 35:56Danny Jones?

  So they wanted you to go out and solicit?

• 36:00Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I didn't have to be solicit. They were coming at me.

• 36:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, they were coming to you guys?

• 36:04Speaker 02

  You know, I'm the first scientist who have tested a memory molecule for Pfizer in 1994 at the Brain Imaging Center of the Montreal Neurological Institute.

• 36:18Danny Jones?

  A memory molecule?

• 36:19Speaker 02

  The first memory molecule for Alzheimer's disease, dementia.

• 36:23Danny Jones?

  In 2014?

• 36:25Speaker 02

  No, no, no, 1994.

• 36:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, 1994?

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Thirty some years ago. I was there because I was sick.

• 36:32Danny Jones?

  Pfizer gave you a grant for this?

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they paid the entire, my salary for all the year.

• 36:40Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  But, you know what happened? I think I will say what happened because that changed my trajectory. And I don't think that they will sue me because it's the truth. What happened is that in the contract, they said, I use a form of scanner that is called PET scan. You know, you have FMRI, Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging, or FMI, and you have PET scan because the PET scan allows you to see what's going on neurochemically in the brain.

• 37:10Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  So we were looking for, I don't want to sound too technical, to see how the drug was improving the function of a specific chemical messenger or neurotransmitter they would call acetylcholine.

• 37:27Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Involved in memory.

• 37:30Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Playing a key role in various memory functions. So we were the first to do that. I was the first.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  And the results were kaput, very negative. And in the contract, Pfizer, they knew that if the results didn't look good, they didn't want me to go publicly and say it to the population. So I was prevented legally to say that, but since it's been thirty two years, I suppose they won't sue me now because it's the truth.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  But I don't want to create problems with them.

• 38:11Danny Jones?

  Now, were you testing a specific patented drug?

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Uh huh. Before, before it becomes public.

• 38:18Danny Jones?

  What was the name of the drug?

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Of, um, I have the name of the molecule, but you can, nineteen ninety four.

• 38:27Danny Jones?

  Type in Pfizer nineteen ninety four Alzheimer's drug.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, what's the, what was the commercial name? I don't, I'm not sure they had the commercial name yet because they went public after that. But in terms of results.

• 38:40Danny Jones?

  They launched the drug after you gave them the negative results.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Exactly. And when I realized that, and, and.

• 38:49Danny Jones?

  Arescept?

• 38:50Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 38:51Danny Jones?

  Arescept.

• 38:52Speaker 02

  Done as it is. Yeah, yeah. I do. Yeah, exactly.

• 38:55Danny Jones?

  Okay, so October nineteen ninety four Pfizer signed a strategic alliance with iPsyco Limited to co-develop and co-promote the Alzheimer's drug Arescept.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 39:05Danny Jones?

  Originally known as E twenty twenty, this partnership allowed both companies to market the drug, which was later approved for managing symptoms of Alzheimer's disease. Is this anything about like how well it worked?

• 39:17Danny Jones?

  If you click show more, Steve?

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, legacy.

• 39:23Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  But, you know, despite, let's say, despite the negative results, because in terms of brain, it serves of a positive alteration of brain activity at the chemical level with regard to acetylcholine.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Didn't show, you know, it didn't do any good. And so in the contract, and I said, I have to publish the results, the findings, the negative findings. And they said, no, you don't publish negative findings because we have invested millions and millions and millions of dollars. So you want the store-

• 40:01Danny Jones?

  Wouldn't they do the test first, then invest the millions of dollars?

• 40:05Speaker 02

  No, no, because they, first they start to test with rodents. Okay, so it's a, overall, it's a ten, twelve years process before you commercialize the drug on the market.

• 40:19Danny Jones?

  Sure, sure, okay.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  It's a, and it can cost nearly a billion dollars overall. So you don't, they want to protect their investment. I, I, I can, I could understand their point of view, yet to me, it was not the truth. And they said, you don't have the right to publish a scientific paper about this. I said, what? And, and I said, you, you're going to tell the public that it's very, it performs very well and people will buy it and doctors will recommend it and across the world? And said, that's none of your business, man. You, we paid you. Shut up. That was the last time I was, I worked with Big Pharma.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  And Pfizer, because to me, a deeply spiritual individual, my life is guided totally by moral values.

• 41:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  And they were not telling the truth. I said, you have to tell the truth. They said, that's none of your business, man.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  You're the researcher, we're Big Pharma.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Okay, that was the end of it. And at the medical school, I I told them that. And um, I said, and so they didn't want me to do what I did and why I became famous. I started doing studies about spiritual experiences, using scanners and stuff like that. But at the medical school, they thought I was totally uh crazy. He said, no, but that doesn't bring money to and prestige to the medical school at the University of Montreal. Why are you doing this?

• 42:03Danny Jones?

  How how much of that was going on in that school? How how much, how many um researchers like yourself, neuro pharmacologists, were getting grants from pharmaceutical companies to study drugs like this? Lots of people.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Like I like in Harvard, like in Princeton or.

• 42:21Danny Jones?

  And the universities take a percentage of every single one of those grants?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:26Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 42:27Speaker 02

  So so you see the, this is the a kind of financial system linking the medical schools and big pharma.

• 42:35Danny Jones?

  And it still works this way today?

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Yes, oh, yes. And we've seen this a few years ago, but I won't go there.

• 42:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, we still see it today.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  You you you see what I mean?

• 42:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  I was a rebel. I refused. So I I did worse than that. I participated in a foundation for the defending citizens in my country suing the government in Supreme Court. That's what I did.

• 43:08Danny Jones?

  That's good for you, man.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Yes, but I had to flee after that. Why do you think I I left for Switzerland?

• 43:17Danny Jones?

  Was it pretty? Oh, oh, this was in when you were in Canada? Oh, okay. I was gonna say.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  But I worked at the University of Texas Medical School in Houston, at the University of Arizona in Tucson. Uh, I spent quite a bit of time in the US. So uh and my grandmother, my my, the mother of my mother was. Born in New Bedford, Massachusetts. I have a part of my family that is American.

• 43:45Danny Jones?

  So when you saw this whole thing, this whole debacle happen in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, you had an inside track and boots on the ground experience with these companies and your red flags immediately started to went up.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  So there was a group of people that came to see me back then. They knew I was a kind of, I had a rebellious mind inside. So they thought perhaps you will have a rebellious mind against your own government now because of the so-called pandemics.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  And I said, yes, for sure, I will be part of your team. So we've decided to fight against the government at the provincial level and at the federal level in Supreme Court. But guess what happened?

• 44:36Danny Jones?

  What happened?

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Just remember Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada?

• 44:41Danny Jones?

  I do.

• 44:43Danny Jones?

  Did he kick you out?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but guess what happened? Before the so-called pandemics now, people would think, ah, he's another punk. But that's, that's the truth. He gave, um, uh, uh, he gave an additional sixty percent of salary to the judges, the high, the judges in the high courts in Canada throughout Canada. Sixty percent increase of salary. Few months before the beginning of the pandemic.

• 45:17Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, what a coincidence. And you know what? He told, because I've been told that by people who knew him. You have to grease the wheels sometimes of the system.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  It was done on purpose to buy, I'm sorry, but to buy the judges throughout Canada. I have to go back to Canada, but I'm on the blacklist anyway. But I have to be protected.

• 45:46Danny Jones?

  Are you allowed to go back there?

• 45:48Speaker 02

  I have the best lawyer in the country. Oh, okay. She's the one who contacted me.

• 45:53Danny Jones?

  That helps.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  She said, I'll be your bodyguard in Quebec, but if it doesn't.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  I would prefer to come in the States because I've worked for years. I don't know, I will say that I'm a what, I'm a refugee from Canada and the United States. I don't know if Trump will accept or the governor of, it could be Florida.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  If you have a special connection with dissenters, just let me know, perhaps not.

• 46:24Danny Jones?

  No, I have no connection with dissenters.

• 46:26Speaker 02

  Okay, because that would be nice. But you see, yes, I'm on their blacklist, to be honest.

• 46:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  I was also chased by, in Quebec, we see College of Medicine. It's like the National Association of Medicine or medical doctors. Very powerful, like lobby in Washington. They have an army of lawyers and they were, they were trying to bully me by saying, stop talking about healing or self-healing or the influence of spirituality on health. And so because they let me know that they could put me in jail. So I had multiple reasons to leave Canada a few years, if you see what I mean.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  That's why I went to Switzerland to be truthful.

• 47:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:23Speaker 02

  And over there, I was not worried too much because I was living in the Alps at 5,200 feet in the air. I was dealing, I was interacting with people at the medical school at the Université de L'Orsay, French, Swiss, French, Swiss, Swiss, French university, not Swiss, German. But over there, they are quite open minded about, you can talk about healing, self-healing, the influence of spirituality on health. And even in hospitals, let's say you're dying, you can ask your healer.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  To go to the hospital and he won't be or she won't be sued legally. They have the right to do that over there.

• 48:07Danny Jones?

  Where is this?

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Switzerland.

• 48:08Danny Jones?

  Switzerland. Let me ask you this. Do you think the church is still pushing back against this post-materialist worldview?

• 48:14Speaker 02

  No, they liked it very much because they said, so they, they contacted me and they wanted to establish a strategic

• 48:24Danny Jones?

  When?

• 48:24Speaker 02

  alliance in 2014 after the publication and also in 2007 when I published The Spiritual Brain, the first, my first book in, with Harper Collins here in the States. I was contacted by, well, that's private detail, let's say, by very powerful people in the church, Roman Catholic Church. And they said, we're part of the same, we're, we're allies strategically. Because you're talking, you're introducing the reality of the non-physical and spirituality in science,

• 49:06Speaker 02

  mainstream science, neuroscience, which is one of the top science in the world with physics. So they said, in reality, we're, we're members of the same gang, Mario.

• 49:17Danny Jones?

  They're trying to recruit you, Mario.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  That's what they did. And you guess what? Now I can tell the truth, but I don't, I'm not in, I don't belong to the church anymore. So I don't care. I receive a letter from, I won't say who, but very powerful people in the church. And they say, you will go publicly and you will talk about, they gave me 10 dogmas or 10 beliefs. And in exchange, we'll, we'll give you, you'll be in Rome at the Vatican, at the, there is a scientific institute there. You will have money, fame, power, limousines, women, if you will.

• 49:58Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  Guys, if you will.

• 50:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Or little boys.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  I'm sorry to say that, but it's true.

• 50:10Danny Jones?

  This is the Catholic Church saying this to you?

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Archbishop.

• 50:16Danny Jones?

  An Archbishop?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  Washington DC. About 20 years ago, nearly.

• 50:23Danny Jones?

  This guy's still alive?

• 50:24Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. If he's alive, he won't be happy. But...

• 50:33Danny Jones?

  This guy in the Epstein files?

• 50:35Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I'm no [BLEEP] file. Believe me. We... To me, children are to be protected, not abused. But that's another subject. But, okay, in exchange, they wanted me to go out and say, "All gay people should go to hell publicly." To use my new influence as a very promising young neuroscientist around the world to say...

• 51:05Danny Jones?

  Don't, we don't want to show this. Don't show this.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Because, no, no, it was before. Oh, yeah.

• 51:12Danny Jones?

  Anyway, don't, don't, don't.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  I don't want to have trouble legally.

• 51:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we don't want to, we don't want to.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Okay, but, no.

• 51:19Danny Jones?

  Don't put it on the screen.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Because I will be in deep shit.

• 51:21Danny Jones?

  No, we're not. Trust me. I don't want, I don't want any...

• 51:23Speaker 02

  And you, perhaps, because...

• 51:25Danny Jones?

  I don't want to get involved in it.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Okay, so we cut this?

• 51:27Danny Jones?

  No, this won't be on the screen. He won't put it on the screen. This won't be visible.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  I hope they won't sue me.

• 51:34Speaker 02

  That's true. I received an official letter.

• 51:36Danny Jones?

  From who? From them? Oh, about the dogmas, about...

• 51:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:40Danny Jones?

  First, number one was gay people go to hell.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Okay. Second, all the women who have had an abortion should go to hell. You will tell that publicly. Second point. Third point. Fourth point. 10 points like this. In exchange, we'll pay you. We'll pay you with riches, with power, influence.

• 52:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  At the Vatican. That's the pure truth.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  Look at me, I'm not, I'm not a liar. I always

• 52:12Danny Jones?

  How did they tell you this?

• 52:14Speaker 02

  Through a letter, an official letter.

• 52:17Danny Jones?

  They wrote you a letter detailing?

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Exactly, a long, long

• 52:20Danny Jones?

  So you have evidence?

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Yes, but

• 52:22Danny Jones?

  That they sent this?

• 52:23Speaker 02

  But I threw it to the garbage, of course. I was offended by that. I said, you know, because when your spiritual, I was not a Roman Catholic anymore. I, I, I considered myself to be, after my mystical experiences,

• 52:38Speaker 02

  there's no, you know, when, when you go there and you experience this, it's not about Roman Catholic versus baptism, Baptist Church versus Pentecostal versus, or Buddhist versus Hindu, or, no, no, it's about the one, the all. Doesn't have anything to do with official religions.

• 53:03Danny Jones?

  I just find it hard to believe that the Catholic Church would bribe you, would, would try to bribe you

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Oh, that's what they

• 53:09Danny Jones?

  On paper and mail it to you.

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Exactly what they did. Yeah, that's true. 2007, after the publication of The Spiritual Brain, which became a bestseller. It's still being sold. It's still taught at certain universities today, 20, nearly 20 years after the publication. So they thought that they, they could strike a deal with me because I was becoming more influential.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  That's, that's it. So, you know, before it was Big Pharma, after the Roman Catholic Church, after, you know, we strategically, we, so I thought that science was supposed to be neutral, objective about truth, but no, science can be corrupted. And we've seen that during the last few years.

• 54:00Danny Jones?

  Well, not just, I mean, yeah, and

• 54:02Speaker 02

  It's done by humans.

• 54:03Danny Jones?

  In lots of aspects of science.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:05Danny Jones?

  You know, science, science can be hijacked.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Nobel prizes can be bought. And that's what

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Let's say major institutions do.

• 54:14Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  They, let's say they buy Nobel prizes sometimes. You can find evidence.

• 54:19Danny Jones?

  That's not surprising. I mean.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  You can find evidence, even Nobel Peace Prize you can buy.

• 54:25Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 54:26Speaker 02

  And I won't tell, you know, you had a president here who won the Nobel Prize.

• 54:30Danny Jones?

  Wasn't, um, wasn't Bill Gates trying to get that? Wasn't he trying to use like Epstein to get him and Trump?

• 54:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, but Obama received a Nobel Prize. And what he did really before, he killed people.

• 54:44Danny Jones?

  He killed more people with drones than any person in history.

• 54:47Speaker 02

  Exactly. So it's a nonsense.

• 54:49Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Doesn't make any sense. Not, I'm not saying that because I don't, I didn't like him, but let's, let's be truthful here. Let's say the truth.

• 54:58Danny Jones?

  It's political and it's financial. It's all about money.

• 55:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, always.

• 55:02Danny Jones?

  And same with, same thing with science, whether you're talking about.

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Danny, can we take a five minute break?

• 55:07Danny Jones?

  Sure. We're back.

• 55:11Danny Jones?

  I want to ask you, does the church, after they tried to bribe you and get you to work with them and you said no, has his, since the dark ages, has the church been successfully influential in material, in, in science and keeping this,

• 55:36Danny Jones?

  keeping the consensus of material science strong and trying to keep the post-materialist view in more of a woo woo type?

• 55:47Speaker 02

  No, no, no, they like it because they, uh, they, that's why they wanted to team up with me and my colleagues. Because they, they realized that in some, in a some way, it's supporting their own religious view of the world, that there's a also a non-physical component in the universe, not only, there's not only matter. So they're seeing that it's a new form of science, this post-materialist science, that really helps their cause somehow.

• 56:23Danny Jones?

  Why don't you think there's more money spent on this stuff? When there's billion, I mean, how much money is being spent to build the new, the new large Hadron Collider? They're building one that's like 20 times the size or something like, like insane amounts of money.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  I know, I know. You could solve the poverty problem around the world, the hunger problem. But it's, it shows you that, like you said at the beginning of the interview, the still the materialist worldview is dominant to us again to a certain extent. But I think that because I've been to you, I've been all over the world. I've traveled over the world during the last four decades. And I can tell you the difference now in terms of the perception of even major institution. You, you see, the post, post materialist doesn't mean anything.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  It's, it's only, it marks a historical transition between dominant worldview, materialism, physicalism, and something else. But the something else is compatible with spirituality and religions as well. But you see, when I started as a young man and I was daring to challenge the materialist worldview. For instance, I went, I've had all sorts of experience. People were wanting, they wanted to attack me physically because it was very emotional. So for instance, I went to the most famous university in Paris, in France, La Sorbonne in Paris. It's like their Harvard.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  And they, they asked me to talk about how I saw the relationship between the brain and consciousness. They gave me two hours at the university. And over there, it's the old world. So they don't do things like in the US or Canada. Uh, they were very famous, very old scientists, like guys in their eighties or ninety years old, and they had to discuss publicly my lecture at the end of the lecture. And they were very influential people, but materialist atheists. So they listened, and there was the president of the committee, and his, his face was changing.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  He was turning red all the time. This pressure was mounting. And when I, I finished at the end, he said, he said publicly, "Too bad that we're not two hundred years before." And I, I, uh, so I played the innocent guy and said, "What would you have done with me two hundred years ago?" And the people were laughing in the, in the room, but they were on my side.

• 59:15Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  The students.

• 59:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  And he said, he was eighty-five years old. He said, "We would have killed you, my friend." But I said, "Unfortunately, you cannot do anything now, pal." And he was, is, is, I, I'm sure his pressure was three hundred. He was about to explode.

• 59:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  He said, "You're a cocky son of a bitch from Quebec, Canada." But people were loving me because I dared challenge. It was seventeen years old, uh, seventeen years, uh, ago.

• 59:54Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  And, but he said, and after the, when we left the room, all, uh, everybody at the same time, he had his, uh, disciples who wanted to attack me physically, who were trying to bully me. Uh, "Let's go outside and we'll kick your ass, man." But they were, they were fifty against one.

• 1:00:16Danny Jones?

  About a year ago, I got hit with a text for an unpaid toll. Then when I finally went to pay it, I realized it was a scam. That would have never happened with Cash App because they stress transfers with trusted individuals, which is why I use Cash App. Your security deserves to be a priority, and Cash App treats it that way. With Security Lock, Cash App requires a successful Face ID or biometric authentication to access your account. It's like your money is protected by your own personal bodyguard, even if your phone is lost or stolen. Plus, if you're about to send money to somebody new and Cash App notices something looks a bit off, or that you might be filing for a scam, it will send you a warning before the money is sent to confirm that everything looks okay. Turn on Security Lock in your Cash App settings today and pay attention to scam warnings and keep your money safe. Learn more at cash.app secuity.

• 1:00:59Danny Jones?

  Moving money should be simple, but it should also be safe, and that's why I like using Cash App. For a limited time, new Cash App customers can earn $10 if they use the code SECURE10 in their profile at signup and send $5 to a friend within 14 days. Terms apply. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App Bank Partners. Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Discounts and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. The day I first put on a pair of Chubbies trunks, I realized life is too short for uncomfortable clothing. I mean, why not wear something that puts you in a dangerously good mood?

• 1:01:41Danny Jones?

  Their shorts have just the slightest amount of give, which I think is perfect. It's soft and effortless. And their swim trunks are my favorite. They dry super fast, so I can go from cannonballs to beach bars in a splash. And my favorite part is the built-in boxer brief liner. These aren't grade school trunks. They're trunks the way they should be. Their four-way stretch molds to the shape of your legs, and it doesn't feel easy to tear. Chubbies make swim trunks so comfy and modern that it has to be something engineered by NASA. I'm talking wild prints so fun that your trunks themselves will get the party started, and liners that prevent chafing and uncomfortable pinches. It's like the technology in these shorts was sent here from the future. And with 2.6 million sold, Chubbies knows how to keep thighs happy. And now, Chubbies is celebrating.

• 1:02:25Danny Jones?

  Fifteen years. Their original shorts that redefined proper length are back. For a limited time, Chubbies is giving our lucky listeners 20% off with the code Danny at ChubbiesShorts.com. That's 20% off your order with the code Danny. Give your thighs the VIP treatment they deserve with Chubbies. Support the show and tell them we sent you. Explain, okay, I want to hear about this study that you did on the Carmelite nuns.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:54Danny Jones?

  How did, how did that come about?

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  Crazy thing, crazy story. Because of what I had experienced earlier in my life, and I told you about these experiences, I wondered what would happen if we would scan cloistered nuns, contemplative nuns, like masters of contemplation, like Buddhist monks. What would we see in the brain during, using an FMI scanner? And electrical activity like using what we call electroencephalography. So we had two studies. When they reach a state of what they call union with God,

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  contemplative state of union with God in their own words, according to their belief system. So I want, I want to see the, in English, I think we see the priors of the convent. And you cannot meet with them because they are behind walls. You cannot see the priors. You can talk through, through structures like that. You cannot approach her physically. So she said, young man, what do you want? Why are you here? What are you, why are you here? We don't like men in the convent. We're women. We don't like guys here. What do you do here?

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  I said, I want to ask you the permission to, for you to participate in a great scientific experiment. She said, what? Are you crazy? She was about 80 years old. What? She said, we don't, we, we pray all day, all night. We don't leave convents, we're cloistered. You don't understand what it means.

• 1:04:47Danny Jones?

  I wanna study your brain, lady.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  No, I, I said, no, not that way. I said, I want to see what's happening when you connect with God in your brain. That's different. And she said, we cannot do that. The Pope won't allow this. I said, you don't have to tell him. Said, young man, you don't respect the, the, the authority of the church? I didn't tell her about my previous sister.

• 1:05:15Danny Jones?

  I'm not one of those naughty nuns, Mario.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  But she said, no, it's no. No, no.

• 1:05:22Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Hey, take the, the young man outside of the convent, please. So I said, hey, I'm very, um, you know, I, I don't accept no. Never accept no for an answer. I'll be back, lady. She said, no, you won't. The, the door will be closed next time for you. But guess what? The next week, I was there again and again and again for three months. And at the end, she said, ah, she didn't say fuck, of course. But she said, I'm tired of seeing you, man. Okay, we'll accept. That's how it started.

• 1:06:07Danny Jones?

  So how did you conduct it? What was the goal? What was this, what, explain?

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Okay, the, the, the goal was very simple. I, so I said, you could, you do not control when you have mystical experience, right? Even if you pray for six hour, you don't have automatically a mystical experience because you pray for six hours straight. She said, yes, it's the, it's grace God according to their, their belief system. So she said, but we could do something else. And I, I said, could you try to reenact a mystical experience by praying? Let's say in a lab for 30 minutes and we scan you and you feel, when you tell us, I feel like I'm in a mystical state, maybe not directly. And she said, yes, we could do that. So that's what we did.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  So they were in a, a room and the scanner was not far.

• 1:07:01Danny Jones?

  What kind of scanner? What type of scanner?

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Three Tesla, FMRI.

• 1:07:05Danny Jones?

  Oh, FMRI, okay.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  Three Tesla Siemens, do you want more technical detail from Germany, direct from Germany? University of Montreal, and I was the, back then, I was the assistant to the director of the neuroimaging center. So, so they were trying to condition them, like, it's the Olympics, Winter Olympics right now. So, like athletes, the, you know, they visualize before the downhill or...

• 1:07:32Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:07:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So, they were, the Dons were doing exactly the same thing, alone in a room. And I was, I had a research assistant who was checking with them. And when they were saying, "Okay, I feel that I'm..." Okay. We were, we put them in the scanner and we were starting to scan. For the EEG experiment, it was easier because it's a cap that you don't have to... There's no scanner, so they, they close their eyes and they...

• 1:08:00Danny Jones?

  How long did it take?

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  For the scanner, it was...

• 1:08:03Danny Jones?

  No, no, for them to reach their mystical state.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  Oh, they were alone for at least thirty minutes.

• 1:08:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  But, you know, they, they are used to pray all the time, so they can enter into that state.

• 1:08:14Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  It's like you're a race car driver, you're used to go to the Indy 500. You close your eyes for a few minutes and you feel that you're ready to roll. Or a boxer, or, you know.

• 1:08:26Danny Jones?

  Sure, like a flow state.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so, so that's exactly the same. And so when they were saying, "Start scanning," we were, "Start rolling." And that's what we did. And guess what we found? Everybody, the neuro, materialist neurologists around the world were saying, "Sometimes when you meet with epileptic patients and they have a seizure, the origin of the seizures can be a tumor or lesions are in the temporal lobe, right above the ears."

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  Or besides.

• 1:08:56Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:08:58Speaker 02

  One percent of the patients report mystical experiences during the seizures.

• 1:09:04Danny Jones?

  During the seizures?

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  During the actual seizure, the grand mal. And when women, they, you know, they move, they, they, but one percent. It's not that much, but it must mean something. So based on that, on this, neurologists around the materialist neurologists, of course, back then, said, uh, well, you know, it means that the electrical micro seizures or big seizures in the temporal lobe creates uh spiritual experiences in everybody on planet Earth. This is an illusion, a delusion, an electrochemical storm.

• 1:09:42Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  That creates the impression that you are actually connecting with God or the one, the all. It's only an illusion. And when I heard that, when I was young, I said, because of my own experiences, I said, they don't know what they're talking about, these neurologists. I won't say their name here because.

• 1:10:01Danny Jones?

  So was this study published with the nuns?

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  Of course, it, it circulated around the world. And as soon, yeah, that was part of it. As soon as it was published, I started receiving phone calls from social, um, science journalists around the world on nonstop for like days. I had to, they had my, my phone number at home and I, they were calling me, uh, calling me.

• 1:10:26Danny Jones?

  Close out of this, Steve, I want to see the paper.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you can see there's a picture of the prior S that was published. Yeah, but that's not the most interesting. It was published in the Ottawa newspaper.

• 1:10:42Danny Jones?

  There you go.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the actual scientific. That's one of the papers. That's not the, that's the EG, that's not the FMRI study. And she had, uh, and journalists managed to, took a picture of the prior S without her consent.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  In the university, they heard about something crazy like that. So a journalist managed to enter the University of Montreal and snap a picture of the nuns who was sitting on.

• 1:11:13Danny Jones?

  No way. Is this online?

• 1:11:15Speaker 02

  Uh, the picture is online. It's, uh, if you enter, uh, Carmelite Nuns.

• 1:11:21Danny Jones?

  Is that it right there?

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  No, no, she's old. She was, uh, uh, enter my name with, uh, it's part of the, um, a film called The Mystical Brain, National Film Board of Canada in 2007.

• 1:11:34Danny Jones?

  Have you heard of the John Hopkins study?

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, with drugs, you mean?

• 1:11:41Danny Jones?

  Yes, on religious professionals.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Yes, I knew the guy, Roland Griffiths.

• 1:11:46Danny Jones?

  You knew Roland Griffiths?

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  He's a neuroscientist, famous neuroscientist.

• 1:11:50Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:52Danny Jones?

  That study is wild. So I guess what they did was they took religious professionals from different religions.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:57Danny Jones?

  Gave them psilocybin, I believe.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:00Danny Jones?

  And their goal was to prove some sort of common core to all religions, perennialism.

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  Exactly. Like, but it first started, uh, it was the Good Friday Experiment in 1962, the first experiment. They reproduced it.

• 1:12:16Danny Jones?

  Oh, I haven't heard of that one.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  Okay, the first one was guided by the great scholar of religion, Houston Smith. He participated in it as a subject and it was conducted by a Harvard guy named Walter Pankey, the researcher. Uh, he like mysticism, he was a friend of Houston Smith and others.

• 1:12:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  He died, the poor guy, because he loved, uh, you know, going deep within, in the ocean. And he never came back once.

• 1:12:46Danny Jones?

  Free diving.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the Atlantic. His, his girlfriend was waiting for him and he never came back on the beach, never came back. So that's how he ended. He was a young, young man. And so they did the original experiment and the goal was to see, so you had Houston Smith, but you had scientists, physicists, all kinds of people representing society at large, but mostly in the academic world. And they wanted to see, is it possible to induce a full-blown mystical experience using this stuff?

• 1:13:22Speaker 02

  And it did the you see Houston Smith, the great scholar, became Houston Smith because he did this experiment. He told that himself.

• 1:13:34Danny Jones?

  What was the difference between his experiment and the John Hopkins study? Same exact thing?

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Same thing. Yeah.

• 1:13:41Danny Jones?

  And what was the results?

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  It's um, the people have the experience and I took several of these compounds because I was testing them on rodents at first.

• 1:13:54Danny Jones?

  Psilocybin?

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  All of them. LSD, coke, and phytamine. I had all of them tested. I was a neuropharmacologist and a student in neuropharmacology. So I tested all the drugs on the planet, ketamine and so on and so forth. And when I did that, I decided, well, I don't know what's happening to the rat inner experience. So I wondered, I think I'd like to know what I'm injecting to them. But of course, the inner experience of a rat is not the same as a human being.

• 1:14:32Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  But I felt compelled by obligation because I was, I didn't want to hurt them, but we were killing them after each experiment, unfortunately. Yet, I thought that you don't have the right to alter the chemistry of a living organism if you don't know what it's doing. So guess what? I decided to start doing all of them, these drugs. But my directors in the lab, they said, everything is controlled by the government here. So they know the quantities. So if drug disappears from the lab, we'll know who took the drug. So they warned me.

• 1:15:14Danny Jones?

  How come in Mario's lab, all the cocaine's gone?

• 1:15:18Speaker 02

  And fit me, all of them. Yeah, exactly. So guess what I did? I decided to go on the black market in Montreal. And I tried everything. I bought everything I tried.

• 1:15:30Danny Jones?

  You gotta be careful on the black market.

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  I know, but I was lucky. I've been lucky.

• 1:15:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's good.

• 1:15:36Speaker 02

  So now I'm talking by experience. I know all what they do. And I've tried them several times. So you talk to a guy who has lots of psychedelic experience here. Because I wanted to see, is it possible to have a full-blown mystical experience using this way, the shamanic way, if you will, instead of it's given to you by spiritual powers, like I experienced younger? And I can tell you, yes, it's the same.

• 1:16:15Danny Jones?

  Okay, so let's go back to consciousness and the psyche.

• 1:16:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:22Danny Jones?

  First of all, can you, like, how do you define the human psyche? What is the psyche to you?

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  It's one level of reality through which you interact with what we call the world at large. And the world for a human being, through our nervous system and our senses, it is apprehended in two fashions, two manners. Physically, so it seems solid. And non-physically, as thoughts, emotions, memories, and so on. That's seen non-physical. We cannot see them, the thoughts, for instance, we cannot wake them. Do they have colors? We don't see that. But thoughts, even if they are non-physical.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  They are informational. And now we will talk a bit about information. Because now we are using more and more information to explain everything that is going on in the universe at all levels. Cosmological, astrophysical, physical in physics, well, quantum physics. It's information related to consciousness, intention, attention. You have biology. You have the brain. The brain is connected to all the major physiological systems, the immune system, the endocrine system. So the brain, or the body, you have, what, thirty seven trillion cells in the human body on average?

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  It's a huge informational system, complex, nonlinear, dynamical. It's a flow of information. So a top, and that's my own model that I have developed. And by the end of this year, I will have published my grand, my general theory of information in the universe. It's like, it will be like my relativity theory.

• 1:18:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  And that will be the last important thing that I will do in my life. And grand theory that can explain everything at all levels. Information. Before information in the universe, you have consciousness with an uppercase, let it see, uppercase C.

• 1:18:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:18:39Speaker 02

  Consciousness for God, but we don't, we're not allowed to use God in our equation. So we say now scientists are becoming a, they accept now that we can talk of consciousness with a uppercase C. See?

• 1:18:56Danny Jones?

  That's kind of hard to swallow for people.

• 1:18:59Speaker 02

  Physics in physics.

• 1:19:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:01Speaker 02

  They are, the new physics, quantum physics. The guys, the five guys we created, quantum physics, were mystics. Planck, Max Planck, Bohr, Niels Bohr.

• 1:19:11Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:19:12Speaker 02

  Heisenberg, Schrodinger, and Pauli, Wolfgang Pauli. There were five mystics.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  And they fought the old physics for thirty years before it was accepted. So there was a transition between the old classical physics and the new physics that was called quantum mechanics. From eighteen ninety nine to nineteen thirty, around nineteen thirty. So at the beginning in physics, these guys, the people were saying, they're crazy.

• 1:19:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:46Speaker 02

  Even Albert Einstein, the great Einstein said, no, no.

• 1:19:50Danny Jones?

  These guys are kooks.

• 1:19:50Speaker 02

  No, yeah, because relativity is part of classical physics.

• 1:19:54Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Not quantum mechanics. And he was refusing the insights of quantum mechanics for most of his life till, till almost the end. Uh, he, he sent letters to Niels Bohr. He, he was friendly with Bohr. And Bohr was telling him, you're, you're wrong, Albert. You're too old. You don't understand the new physics, man. He, he, because, uh, Einstein wrote about spooky effects at distance. He didn't like that because it's like magic.

• 1:20:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  And Albert was a, he, he was a genius, but yet he was a conservative.

• 1:20:31Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:20:32Speaker 02

  Physicist person. He had a classical mind, not, he didn't like, uh, uh, quantum entanglement and stuff like that. He didn't feel at ease with these concepts. But at the end, before his death, he recognized, he said to the younger physicist, the quantum physicist, you were right, guys, I was wrong. And he died. He accepted finally.

• 1:20:59Danny Jones?

  So uppercase C, consciousness.

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  Okay, consciousness. So consciousness precedes information. It uses information throughout the universe at various levels. So we have multiple types of information. Uh information that allows to construct universes, physical universes. So we have, for instance, fifteen, around fifteen cosmological constraints. Uh variables.

• 1:21:26Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  Like gravity, electromagnetic forces and so on and so forth. You cannot deviate by one zero out of ten zeros, fifteen zeros after the point, comma, because.

• 1:21:41Danny Jones?

  Thermodynamics.

• 1:21:42Speaker 02

  Exactly, because there won't be any world, life, consciousness. So consciousness precedes everything, but it use information. Information comes from a Latin word.

• 1:21:55Danny Jones?

  Consciousness is fundamental.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  Yes, in i- i- in the post-materialist worldview.

• 1:22:00Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  Consciousness uh guides information, use information, creates information. And information, it's a, comes from a Latin word, it means informare. Uh it guides, it i- i- it forms stuff, so it means that it guides energy.

• 1:22:19Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  And matter eventually. Matter is a more dense form of energy, if you will, at a. How could we see, physicists would say, lower levels of uh oscillations, vibrations.

• 1:22:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  Physic, I mean, mathematical oscillations. Now, I'm not no, talking about new age stuff here, no.

• 1:22:40Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:22:40Speaker 02

  Mathematical oscillations. So it's a, it's, it's the model that I propose and it means that you have, um, okay. And the theory, in the theory.

• 1:22:52Danny Jones?

  Do you have, do you, do you have like illustrations of this stuff?

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Not yet, but by the end of the year, yes, I will. We'll keep, we'll stay in touch.

• 1:23:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  I'll come back.

• 1:23:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, absolutely. I would love to have you back.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  This theory can explain almost anything in the universe. It will be huge. And I started to, I, I was in Tunisia last week and I started to show it to a few scientists. There was a physicist there and he said, yeah, information now is the key to almost everything.

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  Uh, and information can guide energy. So you know, when people take, uh, especially in

• 1:23:33Danny Jones?

  Can you drill down a little bit more on what, what exactly is information?

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  It's, it's not physical. So, so it's something that, well, you have information, for instance, in, uh,

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  in the software that guides the operations of your computer. This is informatics.

• 1:23:51Danny Jones?

  So if you, if, if I upload.

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  For instance.

• 1:23:55Danny Jones?

  This podcast video to a, to a hard drive.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:23:59Danny Jones?

  It's putting, it's, it's encoding the hard drive in ones and zeros, which is, which is all a chaotic soup of ones and zeros.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:24:07Danny Jones?

  But when, when you plug in a TV or a computer monitor to that hard drive.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:11Danny Jones?

  It turns it into this meaningful, meaningful projection of a video.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, like what we're doing, what we're discussing, it will become for the future viewers. Information.

• 1:24:22Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  But you have information, uh, social, social types of information, physical types of information, biological information, neural information, chemical information.

• 1:24:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:24:35Speaker 02

  Genetic information.

• 1:24:36Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  Okay. Various levels of information.

• 1:24:40Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  So for instance, when you think about something, it's a thought, it's abstract, non-physical. Let's say you're thinking about what you're going to do, uh, tonight. For instance, you want to watch sport or whatever, or you have to go back to your family. I don't know. I'm just guessing. Okay. So this information, because it's, mental processes are information. Okay. Memory, you think it is information linked to your past. Uh, anticipation about what we are going to do tonight, it is information related to the possible future. Uh, and so on and so forth. So your thought is translated in the brain, uh, electrically and chemically.

• 1:25:29Danny Jones?

  But, okay.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  Okay, so your thought, I'm going to watch the lightning, for instance, or the box we're doing then, is translated into dopamine, if you like NFL, it will increase the level of dopamine in your brain, because you like following the box, for instance, or I like following the Montreal Canadiens in NHL. Okay, and so it's a translation, and I call that a psychoneural translation in 2007. So it means that your psyche, we come back to the psyche, the psyche is the center where you experience the world physically and mentally.

• 1:26:13Speaker 02

  And the psyche transforms your informational processes, your thoughts, for instance, into neural electrical and chemical activity in the brain. And because the brain is connected to all the major physiological systems, this means that what's going on at that level, the thought, is translated not only electrically and chemically in the brain, but into hormones.

• 1:26:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Into gene expression, epigenetics, and at all levels in your trillions of cells. Do you follow me?

• 1:26:49Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:26:50Speaker 02

  Okay, is it simple enough?

• 1:26:52Danny Jones?

  Yes, yeah, I understand it.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:26:54Danny Jones?

  My question is, where do the thoughts come from?

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  Good question. We don't know, yet.

• 1:27:05Danny Jones?

  What do you think?

• 1:27:07Speaker 02

  What I think, based on my own mystical experience, like I told you, I am, I believe that I am part of the All, the One. And the One, the All, has a psyche of its own, not her or, there's a cosmic psyche.

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  For the one guiding the development of universes, creating worlds, et cetera, et cetera on. I'm talking about God, if you will.

• 1:27:40Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:27:41Speaker 02

  The great designer, consciousness with an uppercase C. And you do exactly the same thing.

• 1:27:48Danny Jones?

  This is like a universal consciousness you're talking about?

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Okay. And you're part of the universal consciousness, whether you know it or not. And there's a part of your unconscious mind that I have called in my, I developed based on my own research and my own experiences. I have developed a psychospiritual approach called holosynthesis. Holos, it's the, the, the all. And the synthesis is going back to the all by reconciliating all the various aspects of your being, a human, humanity. It means cognitively, intellectually, emotionally, socially, and spiritually. So in holosynthesis,

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  what I do, and I'm, I'm helped by a, a young woman in France. Well, she's from France originally, but she lives in Switzerland and she's a, she has a masters in positive psychology. Do you know what positive psychology is? It's a branch of psychology that does not focus on the dirt, the toxic stuff, the dark stuff, only on qualities, attributes of the one, if you, so joy, love, unconditional, spiritual love, beauty, harmony, order, pleasure. That's positive psychology. It was created

• 1:29:18Speaker 02

  by a guy who studied the, that's, that's funny because Martin Seligman was a great psychologist, researcher at University of Pennsylvania for decades. And he was the president of the APA, American Psychological Association for years. He was the, one of the most influential psychologists in the world, a researcher. And he's the guy who devised the, you know, when there's a rat trying to save his life, its life in water, swimming for how long? Thirty-six hours? That's cruel. He's the guy who devised the experiment.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  And at certain point, when he saw the rats dying.

• 1:30:02Danny Jones?

  Giving up?

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  He decided that he was a bad guy. He felt bad for doing this kind of experiments. And he had like an insight, I don't know, coming from above perhaps.

• 1:30:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  Why don't you study positive things instead of stuff like that? Martin.

• 1:30:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:22Speaker 02

  And Martin decided that he would, from now on, create positive psychology. He's the guy who proposed the term.

• 1:30:30Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  Positive. So he said, I apologize for everything I've done cruel during the first part of my research career.

• 1:30:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:39Speaker 02

  Martin Seligman, he's known, I don't know if he's still, I think he's still alive. But he may, he may be old now, but he must be retired. But he's the guy who created this, but it was based on the works of, um. Do you know the Maslow with his pyramid? The, the, the need, human needs.

• 1:30:58Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  Maslow was one of the founders of transpersonal psychology, spiritual psychology with, um. Of Stan Graf, Stanislas Graf, a Czech psychiatrist. The guy who created psychedelic therapy, assisted therapy. Graf came from, because he fled communism in the sixties. Came to work in Maryland, the NIH, NIMH, National Institute of Mental Health. And he started the psychedelic clinical program in the United States. He was allowed to do that for a few years.

• 1:31:37Danny Jones?

  Fritz Graf.

• 1:31:38Speaker 02

  And then Nixon came and he said, we stop everything in the, so Graf, who is one of the father of.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  Transpersonal psychology and positive psychology decided to create with his wife then what they call holotropic breathwork.

• 1:31:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  Have you heard about this?

• 1:31:57Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:31:58Speaker 02

  He said, "We can access expanded states of consciousness without using drugs." He was using mainly LSD. "We'll be able," based on his observations, his findings, "to reach similar states to a larger extent," and he did that. And it's true, because you will alter brain chemistry and electrical activity by changing your breathing patterns. So he's another guy, Maslow, Graff, and you had other luminaries of psychology, they were there. You also have a guy that's called Ken Wilber, an influential philosopher.

• 1:32:41Speaker 02

  He was a biochemist at first and he became a philosopher. So you had people like that before Seligman, but Seligman, and Seligman in reality, what he did, he took the traditional values of religion and spirituality and he converted them in psychology as a program, research program. So he did not really, he just had, he just felt bad for his rats dying day after day after day in his lab at a certain point. And he felt better when he decided that he would, from now on, study positive psychology. And people liked him much better, because before, they considered that he was acting

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  as a, like an Nazi, because it's cruel to do what he was doing. But it's cruel to do what I was doing, killing rats after each experiment, my own experiments. And I feel bad today for having done this.

• 1:33:39Danny Jones?

  Why did you have to kill them?

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  Because they were, we had to do surgery to go deep in their brains, to inject. We were using a technique that is called microelectrophoresis, and we use electrical currents to repel the molecules and, you know, it's basic chemistry. But their brains, they were done after that, so we could not bring them back. So I had to kill them with an overdose of drug after each experiment. And I was playing with the rat before the actual experiment. And so after a year... I started to feel really bad because my my father was a farmer.

• 1:34:22Speaker 02

  He was born in nineteen twenty six, a century ago, and he was a tough cookie with no, you know, he told me when I was young, why don't you, I was asking him, why don't you, why do you kill animals? He said, how are we going to live otherwise? We have to kill your friends, the pigs, the cows, because find me money. That's what he told me, if you don't want me to kill.

• 1:34:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:34:47Speaker 02

  And I said, I don't know what to do. But he said, you see, you're too sensitive, my my son, way too sensitive. You should be a tough, a real man. And he showed me because he killed in front of me a beef, two thousand pounds, like that, packs with a gun, and he sliced his throat in front of me. I was eight years old and I saw the blood, the river blood, and he looked at me.

• 1:35:19Speaker 02

  That's a man. I looked at him. That's a man, really? You don't have any heart?

• 1:35:28Speaker 02

  He said, no, we have, we live in survival mode on planet Earth, my friend. He went to school for years only. So he said, no, no, you have to become a tough guy, otherwise you won't make it on planet, that this planet of crazy people. You don't have a chance if you don't become a warrior.

• 1:35:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  So that's how he trained me, by beating me up at seven, eight, nine, and he was bigger than I am.

• 1:36:00Speaker 02

  I can tell you, I still have the scar, the storma today. It was fifty some years ago.

• 1:36:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:36:08Speaker 02

  And you never forget this because I won't tell you all the details, but.

• 1:36:14Speaker 02

  That's why I became a rebel in life, a revolutionary, because I was against all forms of authority. I still am today at sixty-three years old. And I became a warrior. He showed me, he said, you don't have the choice. I'm hitting you, you have to back, or I'm going to kill you.

• 1:36:34Danny Jones?

  What, what do you, or what are you aware of that is going on at like the cutting edge of this type of research?

• 1:36:41Speaker 02

  Which?

• 1:36:42Danny Jones?

  Like consciousness research?

• 1:36:44Speaker 02

  Consciousness? Uh, now we increasingly more around the world, I can tell you that we accept, more and more scientists are, are switching. You know, they, they like, um, I don't know if you know Christoph Koch, he was the disciple of Francis Crick. He's the director of the Allen Institute in Seattle. He was, because I think he, now he retires. Christoph Koch is the, one of the great neuroscientists around the world. And I was telling him a long time ago, you're wrong, man. You're a materialist. You're teaching false stuff to people.

• 1:37:24Speaker 02

  That's what I, I was a angry young man against all these people because they were teaching us false stuff. And he was, they were all telling me back then, you're crazy, are you? You're crazy. You're a wild man from Quebec in the United States. That's what they were telling me. You're wrong. We've been teaching that for hundreds of years. And I, I was saying, you've been wrong for hundreds of years. I know that I'm right because I have had experiences. And they were telling me, poor little boy, an idealist. Prove us that we're wrong. That's what they were telling me. We challenge you.

• 1:38:06Speaker 02

  At the University of Montreal in Houston, in Tucson, it was a different story because over there, that, that there was the first center on consciousness created in nineteen ninety-five. The, the, the, the, the, this place is different because it's surrounded by native people like me. Navajos, Zonies, Apaches. And it's like if the scientists there.

• 1:38:37Speaker 02

  They don't have too much problem with a mystical view of life.

• 1:38:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:38:41Speaker 02

  For whatever reason. So I was invited, they expelled me at the University of Montreal, as you can guess, because I was refusing to work with Big Pharma. So before I got tenured, they decided to expel me. 2013.

• 1:39:00Speaker 02

  It was a total disaster. I lost everything back then because they told me, you didn't want to listen when the boss of the medical school was telling you for years, establish a partnership with Big Pharma. You did not. Now you will pay the price.

• 1:39:17Danny Jones?

  Well, I would imagine that there would be a stagnation in this kind of research.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  There is because right now, I would say, because I can compare, at first when people were trying to attack me versus now, and I'm not the only one representing this post-Matthias movement, because there are now scientists all over the world in physics since.

• 1:39:39Danny Jones?

  But they can't get funding, right? There's no money for this kind of stuff.

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  It's starting. Yes, it is. Now.

• 1:39:45Danny Jones?

  Who's getting, who's?

• 1:39:47Speaker 02

  In Switzerland, it's possible. That's why I was there, among other things.

• 1:39:52Danny Jones?

  What type of institutions are funding this kind of research?

• 1:39:57Speaker 02

  Rich people, private foundations, who've had spiritual experiences. Like, I was first funded with the nuns. Who, guess who funded me the first? Mr. John Templeton of the John Templeton Foundation, created at the end of the 90s. This man was 103 years old when he died. And he was the guy who created, how do you call that?

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  The private funding to, for your future at the end of your life.

• 1:40:28Danny Jones?

  Social Security?

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  No, but private investments in.

• 1:40:34Danny Jones?

  Retirement accounts or?

• 1:40:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Or if you just want.

• 1:40:39Danny Jones?

  Are we talking about Franklin Templeton, like the?

• 1:40:40Speaker 02

  Yes, this man. And this guy was born in Kentucky or Tennessee in with very it was they were poor so poor that he was traumatized to don't have money when he was young and he decided that when he was going to be an adult he would become rich, rich, rich, rich, rich, and he did. So he became a billionaire. And this is the first the guy who first funded my strange research.

• 1:41:13Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  He he believed in me. And he gave me for for the nuns, he gave his foundation, not him personally, but he gave me hundred thousand dollars US in nineteen ninety nine.

• 1:41:27Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:41:28Speaker 02

  It was big back then.

• 1:41:30Danny Jones?

  And what did you do with that with those funds?

• 1:41:32Speaker 02

  What we discuss about.

• 1:41:33Danny Jones?

  You did the non study?

• 1:41:35Speaker 02

  Exactly. And that's why and and then when I published this thing, I became famous worldwide.

• 1:41:41Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  That's what happened because of Sir, he became a Sir, John Templeton.

• 1:41:48Danny Jones?

  What other types of studies did you do that were maybe similar or connected to the non study?

• 1:41:53Speaker 02

  Near death studies about clinical death, near death studies, but in reality, not near death, actual death studies.

• 1:42:02Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:42:02Speaker 02

  Clinical.

• 1:42:03Danny Jones?

  Were clinically dead.

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:42:05Danny Jones?

  And then coming back to life.

• 1:42:06Speaker 02

  I went to a major hospital in Montreal to team up with a team of surgeons, cardiothoracic surgeons, cardiologists, and so on and so forth. And I discovered a case of a woman who was clinically dead because they were replacing aorta, the big heart rate.

• 1:42:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  And she was young, but she she it was blocked. And so she was clinically dead for about eighteen minutes, you know, so so the the blood is becomes very cold because you know, they they they want hypothermia to protect your your cells in your body. And while she was really dead for eighteen minutes, she saw the surgical instruments that were hidden when she entered the room and she she was sleeping anyway when she entered the she was wheeled into the room.

• 1:42:59Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  But the the all the instruments were hidden. Even when she entered the room, but she saw, she reported what the surgeon told to the nurses, the and so on and so forth. So I took notes of everything. I checked the files of the doctors over there and there was a perfect match. I checked the instruments, told, talked to the surgeon and so on and so forth. And I concluded that, but it was not a discovery. It was only a confirmation of what Raymond Moody had discovered at decades, because he first published a book in nineteen seventy four, I think, or seventy five about the afterlife. And he became famous worldwide. But these people

• 1:43:44Speaker 02

  in, in the cases reported by Moody, people were not clinically dead. They were near dead, death. In my case, I wanted clinical death to make sure that people, the critics wouldn't say, oh, but they, she was not really dead.

• 1:44:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:44:01Speaker 02

  In her case, she was dead. I can tell you that. I proved it.

• 1:44:06Danny Jones?

  There was a woman, I had a gentleman on the show.

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  Hamrin Hals.

• 1:44:09Danny Jones?

  I had a gentleman on the show a couple of years back.

• 1:44:12Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:44:12Danny Jones?

  Uh, who wrote a book about a woman who was struck by lightning.

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  I don't know this case.

• 1:44:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah, his name is Jeffrey Kreipel. He's the one who wrote the book.

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, he's a, he's a scholar.

• 1:44:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, a religious, religious studies guy.

• 1:44:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've read these books.

• 1:44:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And the, it was a fascinating story. She was walking into her synagogue and she was holding her umbrella and she, with her two children, and she got struck by lightning. And, uh,

• 1:44:41Danny Jones?

  she was unconscious for, it was less than ten minutes. And she explained weeks where she had an experience that lasted weeks, where she was in a garden, having conversations with dead relatives and giving her the option to go with them or to go back to her. And she, she had this out of body experience where she saw her body on the ground, saw her kids, saw the doctors in the synagogue rushing out to help her.

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:45:07Danny Jones?

  And she eventually decided to go back to her physical body and

• 1:45:12Danny Jones?

  it was why the the time

• 1:45:14Speaker 02

  Didn't fit.

• 1:45:15Danny Jones?

  Didn't fit because she was only unconscious for a couple of minutes.

• 1:45:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you don't have the I I've had the near death experience. So the actual perception of time in the other world is not at all controlled by the clock. It's not linear time like we have on planet Earth.

• 1:45:31Danny Jones?

  And there's many, there's many fascinating accounts of these types of experiences, right? Oh, but my, my problem is like, it's interesting. It seems real, although it's it's subjective. You can't measure it. You can't prove it. You can't prove it.

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:45:50Danny Jones?

  I can understand why some billionaires would want to throw money at this types of research, but but the problem is, what do you do with it?

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  You know, it's to alter the beliefs about the possibility of the afterlife. Templeton, that was his goal.

• 1:46:05Danny Jones?

  Sure, but the world we live in, science is funded because we want to figure out how to build this into applications that are going to serve profitable

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:16Danny Jones?

  companies so they can sell stuff, right?

• 1:46:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:19Danny Jones?

  Or so they can.

• 1:46:21Speaker 02

  Applied science.

• 1:46:22Danny Jones?

  Right, applied science, right? Apply it to industry.

• 1:46:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:46:25Danny Jones?

  And how do you, you can't really do that with this kind of stuff, can you?

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:46:30Danny Jones?

  You can write books?

• 1:46:31Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. We, I told you about my, I devised based on all this research, my own experience, the experience of other people, other research by other researchers. I devised a psycho spiritual approach called holosynthesis. This is the applied neuro response, applied science response. So can we talk a bit about this? Okay, a few minutes. So when I did the experiment with my research team about the camera lights and after that, near death experiencers, I studied to come back to your question. I studied after the nuns, I studied near death experiencers

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  who claim to be still in contact with, they don't use the word God, they use the light or the the light.

• 1:47:19Danny Jones?

  So after they come back to their physical bodies, they still are somehow connected to that?

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  Yes. Like the nuns are saying, they're connected to

• 1:47:26Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:47:27Speaker 02

  God, but the light, God. You know, Buddhists have another term, doesn't matter. So we investigated them using FMRI and EEG, the same experiment. And guess what we found? The same neural networks are activated or deactivated. It's the same. So doesn't matter whether you talk about God, the source, the light, the void, like in Buddhism, or because they don't have a personalized God. In Hinduism, they talk about Brahman. Doesn't matter, because when you look at the brain, it's the same thing. The same circuits, the same brain regions, the same.

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  And I, I, so I realized that. And also the, the brainwaves. What happens? When you go back, you, you, for instance, clinical death, if you're recording actual electrical activity in the brain, the frequency falls to zero. The real death, clinical death. No more brain activity, no heart activity, no breathing anymore. This is the definition of clinical death. Whether it lasts for a few minutes or 20 minutes, doesn't matter. It is clinical death, considered neurologically clinical death. So the, based on this finding, the frequency is zero.

• 1:48:56Speaker 02

  And in my experience with the nuns and then after the near-death experiences, the, the closest they were to God or the light or the void, in the case of the Buddhist monks, a few Buddhist monks, they were near zero. They were, the frequency was, you know, it was low theta waves. Theta is ranges from four to seven hertz. And delta waves, the lowest band frequency, from 0.5 when you're living to four, 3.5, four. So what's the trick if you want to expand your consciousness? Because the, the brain is like.

• 1:49:40Speaker 02

  When it functions normally, on average, it is a jail, a new prison. And you want to escape it. If you want to access reality with an uppercase R.

• 1:49:55Speaker 02

  Because normally, you're programmed biologically to, for what? Survival, sex, hunger. You're thirsty, you need to move, you, you know, that's, that's the program. Human, the biological programming information of the normal state.

• 1:50:14Danny Jones?

  Evolution.

• 1:50:15Speaker 02

  Uh, actually, well, presently, yes. But even presently, we can go beyond these limitations. Uh, while during near-death experience, uh, you take psychedelic drugs. Sometimes depends. Sometimes it turns to nightmare in some people. So, so I cannot say here, uh, to all the viewers, take psychedelic drug. No, no, no, no, no. In certain case, you don't want to do that. If you suffer from psychosis, you suffer from, um, personality disorders. It's risky. You suffer from certain things, don't do that. But you suffer from anxiety, yes. Suffer from depression, yes.

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  Uh, it depends of your pattern.

• 1:51:02Danny Jones?

  Or if you habitually use this stuff and abuse it, it can have a very negative effect.

• 1:51:06Speaker 02

  Exactly. Oh, yes. But, but, and you know, uh, people who love psychedelics, they will say, well, yes, but it's not toxic at all. You could take a ton of mushrooms and you won't die, which is true. But you may destroy your psyche if you do that mentally. Perhaps you won't come back from this. If, the, the problem is that sometimes people do not know that they are genetically predisposed to psychotic states. They don't know yet. So they will take, uh, two grams, three grams, four grams, and then it's too late. It's a major mistake. They don't know in advance.

• 1:51:47Speaker 02

  So when they do assisted LSD therapy, for instance, like in Switzerland, now they have over forty clinics in Switzerland. It's the largest number yet. It's beginning in the States, in Canada, a bit in France, slowly.

• 1:52:04Danny Jones?

  With what type of psychedelic? Psilocybin?

• 1:52:08Speaker 02

  Psilocybin, LSD, ketamine.

• 1:52:11Danny Jones?

  We've been, the MAPS thing has been trying to get off the ground here forever.

• 1:52:14Speaker 02

  Oh, I know, I know. Oh, rigged up.

• 1:52:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I know. I've been following, I was involved. I was a neuropharmacologist. So, but I was testing rats.

• 1:52:24Danny Jones?

  There's a crazy like shadow war behind the scenes.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:52:27Danny Jones?

  Of groups trying to shut it down and trying to push it.

• 1:52:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I know. But big pharma doesn't like it because they cannot deposit patents.

• 1:52:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  On natural stuff.

• 1:52:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:52:39Speaker 02

  So again, they don't, they don't want it to replace antidepressant drugs, anti-anxiety drugs. They make billions every year using, so they, they don't want to lose this portion of the market, you know?

• 1:52:54Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah.

• 1:52:56Speaker 02

  Because if, if everybody all of a sudden understand, realize that, hey, I don't need antidepressant drugs anymore. I can take natural stuff under the guidance of psychiatrists or people formed to guide. I'm not saying shamans, but shamans, they've been trained in their own culture. But let's say you want to do it legally, from a legal point of view. So you go, like in Switzerland, you ask the permission of your doctor and you will be allowed. If you're, you suffer really from clinical depression, clinical, you have anxiety disorders, PTSD, like the vets coming back from Afghanistan or whatever, Iraq or.

• 1:53:44Speaker 02

  Yes, you're allowed to do it. But if you're a normal person, you don't suffer from any pathologies. And you want to do drug psychedelics in Switzerland, you have to go underground. And the same thing in the United States, same thing, except if you're a recognized church, like in New Mexico, I think, with you have the right because it's a cultural right. You know, because they were doing this for millennia, before even the creation of the United States. So the government cannot tell them, stop doing the, taking these things. Hey, they were there way before, millennia before. So they, it, in Canada, it's the same deal. Yeah, there's a state, there's a church from Brazil in Montreal.

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  And the people are allowed because the government is recognizing that, yeah, that they've been doing that forever.

• 1:54:33Danny Jones?

  There's groups, there's religious groups or not, I wouldn't even say groups. There's, there's individuals in the United States that have been trying to push for the use of psychedelics in the Catholic Church.

• 1:54:48Speaker 02

  In the Catholic Church? I didn't know that.

• 1:54:51Danny Jones?

  Yes, to try to revitalize Christianity in the West. If they were able to introduce psychedelics to the church fathers and let them give that to their, the followers, or the people that are attending church, maybe this would have some sort of a resurgence. But I could see that could be a very, very dangerous idea.

• 1:55:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I suppose the Pope does not agree with that because.

• 1:55:18Danny Jones?

  Well, there's an individual who tried to get the Pope to get on board with this.

• 1:55:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. What, what is the name of the, the person? Do you know? Because I will check, I will.

• 1:55:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, there's a.

• 1:55:30Speaker 02

  Or the group or.

• 1:55:31Danny Jones?

  There, there's a book, have you ever heard of the book called The Immortality Key?

• 1:55:34Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 1:55:35Danny Jones?

  It's all about the Eleusinian mysteries in ancient Greece and the Temple of Eleusis.

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:55:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:42Speaker 02

  I heard about the, the.

• 1:55:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and there was a study that was done on the wine that was.

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 1:55:47Danny Jones?

  That was consumed.

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  Wasson.

• 1:55:49Danny Jones?

  During, yes, Gordon Wasson and Albert Hoffman. There was a book done, and Carl Ruck, who's a classicist. They did a book called The Road to Eleusis.

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:55:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:56:00Speaker 02

  I see.

• 1:56:00Danny Jones?

  So, uh, this is by a guy named Travis Kitchens, who's been on the show before.

• 1:56:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:56:05Danny Jones?

  So yeah, the Pope met an emissary from the psychedelic world at a holy meeting at the Vatican, where the Jesuit lawyer named Brian Marescu presented Pope Francis with a manifesto for a psychedelic new reformation.

• 1:56:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:56:20Danny Jones?

  And there's a photo of him presenting his book to the Pope.

• 1:56:24Speaker 02

  It was the previous Pope, yeah.

• 1:56:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, so that guy Brian Marescu, he's a lawyer and a book author.

• 1:56:28Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:56:29Danny Jones?

  Who wrote this book, all about, it was basically kind of a spin off of that Wasson book with Wasson and Ruck.

• 1:56:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:36Danny Jones?

  About Eleusis, and the idea was how we could follow that framework to revive religion in the West.

• 1:56:46Speaker 02

  I think it would be a good idea, honestly, except for the counter indications for some people, as I said previously, because of clinical antecedents, or, but.

• 1:56:59Danny Jones?

  Well, one of the concerns that I think is obvious is that if you have people who are attending church.

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:07Danny Jones?

  And you have a guy who, one guy who has the direct line to God, and now he's giving his congregation psychedelic drugs.

• 1:57:14Speaker 02

  That creates a problem.

• 1:57:16Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:57:16Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, I know, I know, but in an ideal world, we should go there eventually. I would, I would love that, but we're not there yet, far from it. Because in reality, you know, can we talk about this?

• 1:57:33Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:57:34Speaker 02

  Because the goal here, my new book Awakening the Human Robot, the ultimate goal is to make people understand that they are behaving like robots most of the time. They are programmed through their beliefs, coming from various human institutions. We talked about religion, but it's the same with politics. Sorry, Democrats and Republicans, I'm not into politics. Or conservatives versus liberals, like in Canada, same thing. It's based on beliefs, ideologies.

• 1:58:10Speaker 02

  No absolute proof there. It's a different ways of seeing the world. It's the same in economics, like capitalism versus socialism versus communism versus spiritual anarchists like me.

• 1:58:28Danny Jones?

  Spiritual anarchists?

• 1:58:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, the word exists. The great Russian writer Leo Tolstoy created a community, a magic, long, long time ago. And he was, he termed himself a spiritual anarchist. Anarchy, the real term, doesn't mean destruction and chaos. It means we rebuild back better. Not like Klaus Schwab at the World Economic Forum. No, no, based on spiritual laws. That the great Leo Tolstoy thought about this. Gandhi was a spiritual anarchist. Many famous people are spiritual. Anarchy doesn't mean destruction.

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  This word has received a negative connotation, but originally, that's not what it means. It means that we are, in reality, spiritual beings with high capacities. We are the one physically incarnated and we deserve, we shouldn't be treated like black sheep or like sheep or, no, because we're, we have great capacities. And you, what was happening when the funding, you know, when Americans, when British people came to this state, this ground, this country, there were no, there was no government at first.

• 2:00:00Speaker 02

  And the people were living well, in a way.

• 2:00:05Speaker 02

  Who ruled them? The farmers back then, in the 17th century? The intellectuals who came here, we tempted the adventure, leaving England, the religious people, the Puritan, but all the other people, we didn't need, there was no government in Quebec, Canada, for centuries, yet we were living, people were living. So do not accuse me of wanting to destroy the government. This is not what I'm saying here. What I'm saying is we need to evolve to another level of consciousness and heart, compassion. This is spirituality in action.

• 2:00:46Speaker 02

  And in my book, I challenge, in the first portion of the book, I challenge all the major human institutions, religion, politics, economics, finances, education, because we educate people, young people, to become slaves of a system, a certain system. Slave, perhaps, people will say, "Well, that's too strong", at least to adhere to certain principles, let's say, to maintain the economic system. Can we say that? To go to fight other countries, to maintain the empire.

• 2:01:27Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:01:27Speaker 02

  We can say that, that's the truth.

• 2:01:29Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 2:01:30Speaker 02

  Okay? What I'm saying is that, the only thing I'm saying is that, it's the same thing then, a famous carpenter born 2,000 years ago. His name was Jesus of Nazareth. He was the most rebellious mind of the entire human history. A revolutionary. He challenged the doctors of the religious law back then. By doing this, he knew that he was going to be crucified. He was bright, he knew that. He challenged them in the temple in Jerusalem, one week before. By doing this, he knew he was going to be put on the cross for sure.

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  If I go in Washington DC, I start yelling at the White House, "Trump", and what will happen of me? They will get rid of me within a few hours, I suppose? If I start screaming loud? And clear, I won't, I won't last very long. They would put me behind bar, which is normal in any kind of system we live. I'm not saying that we should do that. But I'm saying that you created independence in the United States and you revolted because of an unjust tax on tea in Boston, right?

• 2:02:50Speaker 02

  Why don't people not revolt today, given the actual conditions of life? That's my question to my fellow American people.

• 2:03:04Speaker 01

  What's the secret to being a great host this season? Keeping things deliciously simple, like mixing Simply Cranberry into a festive drink as guests arrive, or serving up a warm mug of Simply Apple on a chilly night. That means less time behind the scenes and more time in the moment with everyone. Crafted with real fruit, Simply juices and fruit drinks make any holiday drink effortless, inviting and completely delicious. Simply, say yes to simple.

• 2:03:33Speaker 03

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected, powered by Verizon's 5G network, and no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month, or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 2:04:03Speaker 02

  It's even worse than the tea, the taxes on tea today. I'm not saying rebel against the government, but what I'm saying is that wake up because you're acting like sheep, programmed biologically, physically, electrically, chemically, hormonally, at all levels. Because in reality, you're spiritual beings. You're the one incarnated in physical bodies. So why don't you wake up? This is what I'm saying. You have brains that have been designed throughout evolution to be able to wake up at certain point. Here, I'm saying how we can wake up. This is

• 2:04:48Danny Jones?

  Hold it up. Hold it up for folks so they can see the cover.

• 2:04:50Speaker 02

  How?

• 2:04:51Danny Jones?

  This is the latest. Just hold it. Hold it like this.

• 2:04:53Speaker 02

  Here?

• 2:04:53Danny Jones?

  Like that? Towards that camera.

• 2:04:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:04:55Danny Jones?

  There you go. Awakening the human robot dismantling the empire of fear, belief, and control.

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  Exactly. This is, and you should see the endorsement. Five famous scientists, philosophers, writers, and mostly in Europe so far, but because this is, oh, I did it. But I will have Ibn Alexander has written an endorsement. If you want to endorse it, Danny, you can do it.

• 2:05:21Danny Jones?

  I'll have to, I'm gonna read it. I'm gonna read it. I'll give you an endorsement.

• 2:05:24Speaker 02

  But I've asked famous people in the United States.

• 2:05:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:29Speaker 02

  I consider myself to be, I like punk music.

• 2:05:33Danny Jones?

  Do you really?

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  So I contacted Joan Jett. So, hey, Jones, if you ever look at Danny's show, you never responded to my letter.

• 2:05:42Danny Jones?

  Who, what's his name?

• 2:05:43Speaker 02

  Joan Jett, Black Hearts. I love rock and roll. I don't tell me you don't know Joan Jett.

• 2:05:49Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:05:49Speaker 02

  She's the grandfather of punk music.

• 2:05:51Danny Jones?

  Who is it?

• 2:05:52Speaker 02

  Joan. She's a

• 2:05:53Danny Jones?

  What's the band?

• 2:05:54Speaker 02

  Joan Jett. Please, show Joan. Hey, she's a, she was the, you, don't tell me you don't know Joan Jett and the Black Hearts. Look at her. You're too young. That's why, Danny.

• 2:06:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I was never into Joan Jett.

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  Well, I love rock and roll. Never heard of that?

• 2:06:14Danny Jones?

  That's good. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm sure I've heard of her, but

• 2:06:19Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 2:06:20Danny Jones?

  I guess I'm a poser.

• 2:06:21Speaker 02

  She's the equivalent of Ozzy Osbourne for heavy metal. Joan, and she's a rebellious mind. And so I asked her, from one rebel to another, write an endorsement for this.

• 2:06:35Danny Jones?

  Have you ever talked to her?

• 2:06:37Speaker 02

  I don't have the, I cannot. She's, she's shindled, man. You cannot, these people, they live in their own castles. You don't access them. So I'm telling you, Joan, or your friends, hey, remember two months ago I sent you a letter about this?

• 2:06:54Danny Jones?

  Is she into this kind of stuff?

• 2:06:57Speaker 02

  She, I read that now, she's sixty-six, sixty-seven. She has, you know, she was, when she was younger, she was shooting herself, she was, you know, doing the life of what they do in rock and roll.

• 2:07:10Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:07:11Speaker 02

  But now, forty years after, she's become a spiritual woman. She's healthy, she doesn't take drugs anymore. So, we're in the same team, Joe. And so, but you know, these people, I understand because celebrities like that, they don't want to be utilized by other people they don't know. Because we want to, perhaps she, she would feel that she's used by me because she will write me a few lines.

• 2:07:43Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:07:43Speaker 02

  And that's not the goal, I, I, but, you know. I'll ask.

• 2:07:48Danny Jones?

  It's gotta be organic, you can't force it.

• 2:07:50Speaker 02

  I'll ask, I don't know, you know, famous rockers, but they're too old, they're dying now, all the guys, Ozzy is gone. I cannot ask Ozzy, but Ozzy was not into that kind of stuff. Yeah, did you, did you like him?

• 2:08:06Danny Jones?

  Of course, yeah.

• 2:08:08Speaker 02

  Okay, let's come back to our discussion.

• 2:08:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is, there's a difference between near-death experiences and there's a, and there's a phenomena of like having your life flash before your eyes.

• 2:08:21Speaker 02

  Uh, well, the life review is part of the NDE.

• 2:08:25Danny Jones?

  Because I've had that happen to me before, when I thought I was gonna die, when I was in a situation where I was freediving in a cave and I couldn't find an escape and I, I saw my whole life play in front of my.

• 2:08:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's classic.

• 2:08:36Danny Jones?

  Eyes. What is happening in the brain there?

• 2:08:38Speaker 02

  We don't know yet, we don't know, but it, it has happened also, it's reported in the scientific literature for alpinists in the Alps in Europe, when they were falling and they were convinced that they were going to die. Or you can drive a car and on the highway you're going fast and then you lose control, let's say it's raining, it happens to people like that all the time. So it's, it's like if. When the mind, but the, the, the mind, I mean, related to the biologic, the brain, biological mind, is convinced it's going to disappear, it triggers something like

• 2:09:18Speaker 02

  this, uh, probably from, uh, because in, in, in near-death experiences, people can access memories of their entire life in the minute detail, in, within a short amount of time, there's no clock over there, so we, but, and not only the actual, if you believe in this stuff, incarnation, so-called incarnation, but also your previous lives, as, not Danny, but you were in another body, another personality, you, maybe you were a woman for, or, who knows, a child, and so, the memories, the information, to come back to the information

• 2:10:02Speaker 02

  concept, is stored entirely, and some people use the concept of the, uh, in Tunisia last week, there was a woman accessing what she called Akashic records, which means the information stocked, uh, of everything in the universe from the beginning.

• 2:10:22Danny Jones?

  My, uh, my six-year-old son has a friend he goes to school with, and she has vivid memories, she talks about, of how she was a dog named Lily in a previous life.

• 2:10:38Speaker 02

  A dog?

• 2:10:39Danny Jones?

  She talks about it all the time.

• 2:10:40Speaker 02

  I've never heard.

• 2:10:41Danny Jones?

  And she, she gives the details, like, like, she's just rehearsing something that's like baked into her memory.

• 2:10:46Speaker 02

  Wow, but very often, uh, you know, the, uh, did you receive, uh, the guy heading the, um, reincarnation research program at University of Virginia, Jim Tucker?

• 2:10:56Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:10:57Speaker 02

  No? You should, very interesting guy.

• 2:10:59Danny Jones?

  Jim Tucker?

• 2:11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, he was the, he's the guy in charge, the first, uh, research like catalyst who created the problem, uh, the, the program at, over there, was, uh, Ian Stevenson, he was a guy from Scotland originally, that worked at, uh, McGill University in Montreal for years, and then he was offered to go to, uh, University of Virginia to create a research program about phenomena that didn't fit in the sixties, 1967, phenomena that didn't fit with. Mainstream science, materialist science. And he started a research program, the first one on the planet, on reincarnation research.

• 2:11:41Speaker 02

  And to study reincarnation research, uh, he was looking for children who retain a sort of memory of a previous life.

• 2:11:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, I have heard of this.

• 2:11:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm sure you have.

• 2:11:53Danny Jones?

  Kreppel told me about this.

• 2:11:54Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And now the guy, the research psychiatrist in charge is called Jim Tucker. He's in his sixties, I think. And very, he pursued the, what Stevenson started decades ago. And so they will look for children who claim to remember previous, a previous life or previous lives. And what they do, they, so, so they will send heads. Or now they use internet, but before they were, uh, putting heads on newspapers. And in, in countries where reincarnation is accepted, like India, for instance, Sri Lanka,

• 2:12:33Speaker 02

  um, the Druze people in Lebanon, North Lebanon, uh, places like that, not United States, necessarily, Canada.

• 2:12:41Danny Jones?

  So all the people in this study were from other countries?

• 2:12:44Speaker 02

  Mostly, but you have famous cases in the States.

• 2:12:46Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:12:47Speaker 02

  Like Jamie Lenninger. He was, uh, as a child, he was talking of, uh, being a pilot during Second World War. And he was shot down in the Pacific, over the Pacific by the Japanese. I, or the German.

• 2:13:02Danny Jones?

  Oh, I've heard of this one.

• 2:13:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, famous case. He was investigated by Jim Tucker.

• 2:13:07Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:13:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and when he became older, he lost access to his memory. Like most children, when they reach eight, seven, eight, they stop talking about this and they lose contact with their memory of the past. For whatever reason, society tells them that, no, it doesn't exist. Sometimes their parents, but in this case, the parents were, he gave so many details. It was clear that he was really a pilot. Or the other explanation in science, explanation is that you can access a field of information.

• 2:13:46Speaker 02

  In a so-called paranormal way, without the use of your senses. So again, you are accessing information. It's information access and retrieval. So we cannot distinguish scientifically which one is right. Did we live together and we have memories of our previous life or lives? Or do we access an informational field?

• 2:14:11Danny Jones?

  Why do you think it is that children seem to have more creativity, more vivid dreams, nightmares, imaginations, talking to people? Like, it just seems to be way more of this woo stuff. Or, or, or extrasensory perception type, for lack of a better term. And it seems to go away in adulthood.

• 2:14:34Speaker 02

  Brainwashing.

• 2:14:35Danny Jones?

  What is actually happening there?

• 2:14:37Speaker 02

  Brainwashing, conditioning.

• 2:14:39Danny Jones?

  They're being conditioned to the world.

• 2:14:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. TV tells them, except for, you know, sci-fi shows or fantastic movies. This is not real. The, the only thing that is real is the material world. The analytical, analytical part of the human mind.

• 2:14:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:58Speaker 02

  You don't use. I talked about hallucinosis before a bit. Hallucinosis allows amusing specific frequencies hidden in music. Like, have you heard of the Monroe Institute in Virginia?

• 2:15:14Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  Okay, we're, we're doing pretty much the same thing. But I discovered, because the, the, the science journalists, they were asking me all the time, following my studies with the nuns, the near-death experiencers. Well, how, to go back to your question, applied science, how does it help normal people in society, your studies? So they challenged me. And I was, I thought about it for a year and a half. I was challenged. I didn't like it to be challenged like this. I thought, oh shit, they are telling me that I did that for nothing? It's only for knowledge? Okay, so I was thinking, how can I help normal people, not mystics, to access spiritual

• 2:15:59Speaker 02

  worlds or to have transcendent experiences?

• 2:16:01Danny Jones?

  Tell them it's gonna make them more money.

• 2:16:04Speaker 02

  Me? I I don't have any money.

• 2:16:07Danny Jones?

  No, I'm saying that's what you tell them. You tell these billionaires it's gonna make you more money if you fund some of this mystical stuff.

• 2:16:13Speaker 02

  Well, but it's a joke, but it's true because I I've asked these people. I want my research to be funded in Switzerland and in the States and and that's what they were asking for real.

• 2:16:29Danny Jones?

  Just lie to them. Just be like, this will make you.

• 2:16:31Speaker 02

  Cannot because now it's not possible. Everybody will know.

• 2:16:35Speaker 02

  No, no, I cannot. No, but I don't want to lie because I've been taught like George Washington, never to lie. You don't lie. My my father was telling me if you lie, I'm going to beat you up.

• 2:16:45Danny Jones?

  White lie. You lie to this greedy guy who wants to make more money by telling him that this extra consciousness research is gonna make him more money. But in reality, what you're doing is a greater good for humanity.

• 2:16:58Speaker 02

  That's what I think. But.

• 2:17:01Danny Jones?

  Gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelet.

• 2:17:05Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:17:06Danny Jones?

  Hey, Epstein was super interested in this stuff. You know that, right? I was talking to a guy named Dean Radin the other day.

• 2:17:12Speaker 02

  Oh, Dean, he's my friend.

• 2:17:13Danny Jones?

  He said he had a 20 minute phone. He came out in the Epstein files.

• 2:17:16Speaker 02

  Dean?

• 2:17:17Danny Jones?

  Dean. Don't worry, he's not. He wasn't being bad. He had a 20 minute Skype call with Epstein. So Epstein reached out because and he saw that Epstein was funding a lot of his colleagues, right?

• 2:17:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I've heard everywhere.

• 2:17:32Danny Jones?

  And Dean wanted, you know, he's like, fuck, this guy's funding science. He's like, and a lot of the smartest people I know are taking money from this guy. I'm like, I'm gonna take a call with him. So we did a 20 minute Skype call.

• 2:17:40Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 2:17:41Danny Jones?

  And he said that Epstein was just asking him to tell stories about ESP and spoon bending.

• 2:17:46Speaker 02

  Stories.

• 2:17:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah, just tell me all about spoon bending and telekinesis and these kinds of things.

• 2:17:51Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh, that's funny because two weeks ago I sent Dean from Switzerland, I sent him an email about about this. He's reading. Not about, I didn't.

• 2:18:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:03Speaker 02

  He never told me about Epstein, of course.

• 2:18:05Danny Jones?

  I'm sure he doesn't brag about it, but.

• 2:18:06Speaker 02

  No. No, no, but you know, so what's the the goal? I can I can tell you because I've based on my findings. I can, I've traveled in several countries around the world and now I have tested thousands of people. And this is true. This is no gimmick. I'm not a new age guru and I'm not here to make money.

• 2:18:31Speaker 02

  I'm here to tell you the truth, based on what I have observed. So I can tell you that I can alter your brain activity within a few minutes using sounds with specific frequencies in a soundtrack.

• 2:18:47Danny Jones?

  Is this some like Etsok Bentoff type stuff?

• 2:18:50Speaker 02

  I don't know this stuff. I know his work.

• 2:18:52Danny Jones?

  Stalking the Wow Pendulum?

• 2:18:53Speaker 02

  I didn't read this book when I was young, unfortunately, so I don't know.

• 2:18:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:57Speaker 02

  But it's a bit like the Monroe Institute, except that there's the Monroe Institute was built in the early seventies. So it's based on older science. What I'm talking about is based on recent neuroscience findings. We have discovered new rhythms, new band waves since then. So we have more knowledge, of course, we're like thirty six years later. So it's normal. So I'm using all the latest neuroscience findings. I have contribute to others as well. I'm using a verbal guidance scripts like in hypnosis a bit,

• 2:19:40Speaker 02

  but much shorter, smaller, lighter scripts. And I'm using deep abdominal breathing like Stan Gruff, but not, not too rapid, not too, too long.

• 2:19:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, not hyperventilating.

• 2:19:56Speaker 02

  No, because that's not what I want. For five minutes and then the sounds and then the and with the combined to the guidance. And I can tell you, I can take anybody, because I've tested now, without being a mystic or nun or monk. I can bring them into expanded states of awareness and within ten minutes.

• 2:20:22Danny Jones?

  What do you mean expanded states of awareness?

• 2:20:25Speaker 02

  The sense of identity, the small self, me, you know, nerd personality will vanish. And from the small self, you become a greater self, a much bigger self. And eventually, the all, the one.

• 2:20:44Speaker 02

  I've studied thousands of people, so I know it's true. And I've done that in France, Quebec, Canada, England. I've done that in, not in the United States yet. I would love to come here and to show people this because it's huge. In other countries, Belgium, some countries.

• 2:21:09Danny Jones?

  And what type of therapeutic benefits or what type of benefits do people get from this?

• 2:21:14Speaker 02

  I'm now teaching for clinical psychologists, psychoanalysts in France, from France. They will, they will be certified as, they will, we, in this approach, all of scientists, they become guides. We call them like guides. They guide you in your process of trying to connect with your own self, the greater self. So you have the big self, the little self, like, do you know Carl Jung, the Swiss psychiatrist? Okay, like when he was talking about the self with uppercase S. He was referring to what I call the big self.

• 2:21:59Speaker 02

  When he was talking about the shadow, he was marking and the light versus the light. This was the little self versus the big self or the great self.

• 2:22:11Danny Jones?

  I understand.

• 2:22:12Speaker 02

  And the great self, what it is, is your spiritual essence. Because people were asking me, based on my research and the research of other labs, help us to reach these levels, even if we're not contemplative, non-professional sort of contemplation, meditation, can you, and the journalist, the science journalist were telling me the same thing.

• 2:22:35Speaker 02

  And they were telling me, if you don't do this, then your research is as, okay, it's new knowledge, but what does it change? So I was challenged and this, all of sentences is my response.

• 2:22:49Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:22:49Speaker 02

  So I'm ready to come here in the United States and across the nation. California is open to this, of course, Colorado, Arizona, but I can go, I could go to Boston, New York. I don't know if they care about that, Florida, wherever, to demonstrate this and to, to show this, that it works for real. And you can, if you alter brain activity, automatically you alter your own sense of identity, rapidly, within minutes, and you will alter your connection with the spiritual world. Otherwise, because the brain normally acts as a filter.

• 2:23:32Speaker 02

  Okay, survival mode, biological mode.

• 2:23:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:36Speaker 02

  So if you want, if you-

• 2:23:38Danny Jones?

  Like we can only see a very narrow spectrum of light.

• 2:23:40Speaker 02

  Exactly, that's what I'm saying.

• 2:23:41Danny Jones?

  We have infrared light, there's, oh, we can only hear a certain frequencies of sound.

• 2:23:44Speaker 02

  A portion of the spectrum. So this is the filter I'm talking about. Remove the filter and what is left?

• 2:23:52Danny Jones?

  So that's like-

• 2:23:53Speaker 02

  The one.

• 2:23:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:23:55Speaker 02

  Like psychedelic, uh, experiences.

• 2:23:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:59Speaker 02

  This is what I have experienced.

• 2:24:00Danny Jones?

  Like when you take D M T, it's what it's doing is relieving, deleting the filter.

• 2:24:04Speaker 02

  Exactly, for, for a few minutes.

• 2:24:07Danny Jones?

  Minutes.

• 2:24:08Speaker 02

  If you take Bufo, have you heard of Bufo, the, the, so it's a-

• 2:24:12Danny Jones?

  Bufo?

• 2:24:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the most, it's like T M T, but multiplied by a thousand times. Bufo, B U F O, could you check? And you find the, uh, this exotic creature in the desert in Arizona, Sonora Desert.

• 2:24:29Danny Jones?

  Bufo is a potent psychedelic drug derived from the venom of Bufo alvarius, the Colorado riv- Oh, it's a toad. Oh, it's five M O, okay.

• 2:24:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:24:38Danny Jones?

  Five M O D M T.

• 2:24:39Speaker 02

  But you go to the source of everything within a few seconds. So it's like the greatest roller coaster in the world.

• 2:24:48Danny Jones?

  I have a friend who went to South America to hunt for this toad. And he found one and he, and he, they took it, they took some of the venom off of him.

• 2:24:55Speaker 02

  And he tried?

• 2:24:55Danny Jones?

  They burn you with it, they burn you and then they stick the venom in your skin.

• 2:24:59Speaker 02

  And?

• 2:24:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:00Speaker 02

  Result?

• 2:25:01Danny Jones?

  Uh, I think he got very high.

• 2:25:04Speaker 02

  Because it's like the most, the greatest roller coaster in the world, but this is dangerous because it's not for everybody.

• 2:25:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:10Speaker 02

  Even if you took LSD before, psilocybin or whatever ketamine, this is another ballgame.

• 2:25:18Danny Jones?

  Well, listen, the DMT is interesting because the human body naturally creates DMT.

• 2:25:23Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, but in small quantities.

• 2:25:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:25:25Speaker 02

  Pineal gang.

• 2:25:26Danny Jones?

  And small quantities and the lungs. And so the body knows how to synthesize it, knows how to process it. That's why it only lasts for a short period of time.

• 2:25:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:35Danny Jones?

  And it's interesting. And I also had, I had a gentleman on the show a couple, about a year ago. Who is a researcher, who's doing the research. He's applying for, I think he's already started the study, but what he's doing is he's doing a study on endogenous DMT production and how it correlates to schizophrenia. And he believes that there, or he knows, he's studying this specific enzyme that regulates the release of internal DMT.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:26:05Danny Jones?

  And he thinks that the people who have schizophrenia.

• 2:26:07Speaker 02

  Could.

• 2:26:08Danny Jones?

  Lack this enzyme. That's like, that's the regulator.

• 2:26:11Speaker 02

  Wow, that's interesting.

• 2:26:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah, very interesting.

• 2:26:14Speaker 02

  But he needs the funding?

• 2:26:16Danny Jones?

  No, I think he's already got the funding. I think he has the funding. I think they've applied, they've done some sort of application, so they're waiting for it to.

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  The outcome.

• 2:26:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:22Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 2:26:25Danny Jones?

  But, um, all right.

• 2:26:29Danny Jones?

  Anything else we should talk about? Anything we haven't covered yet that we should cover?

• 2:26:32Speaker 02

  I, I don't think so. I, do you have any questions to ask?

• 2:26:37Danny Jones?

  I think.

• 2:26:37Speaker 02

  I feel like we, I think we've done.

• 2:26:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:42Speaker 02

  What we had to do.

• 2:26:42Danny Jones?

  I think we have. We have some Patreon questions. So we have some questions from our Patreon subscribers. And are we going to do them on the show?

• 2:26:50Speaker 02

  Right now?

• 2:26:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, we'll do them right now.

• 2:26:52Speaker 02

  How long is it?

• 2:26:53Danny Jones?

  Probably take 10 minutes. About a minute per question. We got six questions.

• 2:26:56Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 2:26:57Danny Jones?

  We'll rip through them real quick.

• 2:26:58Speaker 02

  Short, okay.

• 2:26:59Danny Jones?

  We usually do them on Patreon, but we have only six, so we'll do them here.

• 2:27:02Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, sure.

• 2:27:03Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 2:27:04Speaker 02

  Can you read the, I didn't bring my glasses.

• 2:27:07Danny Jones?

  I'll read them to you, yep.

• 2:27:10Speaker 02

  Oh, I can see, but...

• 2:27:11Speaker 04

  That's not a question.

• 2:27:12Danny Jones?

  That's not a question, brah.

• 2:27:13Speaker 04

  But thank you, Zachary.

• 2:27:14Danny Jones?

  Alright, so we have five questions. Okay, what does it tell us about religion and spirituality that transformative neurological effects can be mapped and measured across a range of traditions?

• 2:27:25Speaker 02

  Well, you know that for every human experience, you have what we call neural substrate or underpinning. So, let's say you're contemplating a good, a nice plate of food that you're going to eat. You will, you have neural substrate for this. Let's say you're contemplating a painting. You will have neural substrate. So you have neural substrate for every form of human experience, including spiritual experiences. That only tells you that a specific form of human experience is associated with specific neural substrate. It does not tell you anything about causality. So it's not because you have neural correlates or substrates

• 2:28:10Speaker 02

  that it's the neurons of the brain that creates the experience. So that was my limit when I did the study with the Carmelite nuns. The people, the science journalists, were asking me, "Does it prove God or disprove God?" Or, "No, it doesn't." It only says, "When you have a spiritual experience of connection, you feel like you're connected to the light or God, or you have these neural networks that become activated and others deactivated." That's the only thing we can see.

• 2:28:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:28:42Speaker 02

  That, really, that's the limit of neuroscience.

• 2:28:45Danny Jones?

  What does it say about the baseline of human experience that attentional training can have such profound and reproductive results?

• 2:28:55Speaker 02

  Yes, I discussed that with Dean Redden a few years ago, because he found out that... Did you hear about this study where people were trying to influence the behavior in electronic system of...

• 2:29:13Speaker 02

  Quantum, a quantum object as a wave or particle. Did you hear about that? Yeah. And he found out that people with the greater attentional training, like monks, for instance, Buddhist monks, were best, they were the best subjects because they were more capable of altering or influencing the quantum, the object at the quantum level. Interesting. So when I, I went to Australia, I was invited by the organization of the Dalai Lama in 2013 in Australia, Melbourne. The Dalai Lama liked me back then because I was,

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  he thought that I was one of the scientists promoting a new science of consciousness. He invited me in Melbourne for a discussion, a dialogue, in front of thousands and thousands of people. And we were, there were two atheist materialist scientists from Australia, you know, to play the devil's advocate. Because, but he loved me. And after the public discussion, he asked me to go out for lunch, the Dalai Lama himself. So I sat with the Dalai Lama to my right for an hour, 15 minutes. And we discussed everything. And he told me, why do you think, or I asked him,

• 2:30:38Speaker 02

  why do you train attention before the heart compassion in Buddhism, in Tibetan form of Buddhism? He said, attention to respond to the question. Yeah. Is the key. Because if you don't train attention first, your mind is like a monkey jumping from one branch to another in trees, in the jungle. You, to be able to influence your own body and the world, the physical world, like in Dean Redden's experiments, you have to control attention. And to control attention, what do you do? You like if you're doing bodybuilding, you you lift, but you know, weights.

• 2:31:21Speaker 02

  If you want to trade attention, you so they use a a point on the wall or a candle or. And that's what you're asking of your students in Buddhism at first. And when they're after months of training or years, a few years, then they're ready to go to the next level. That's what the Dalai Lama himself told me. Then you're ready to develop a loving kindness, because you can focus your mind. But before it does, it it it doesn't matter. If your attention is not disciplined, focused, you cannot focus on loving kindness.

• 2:32:02Speaker 02

  Because your mind, your mind is always ruminating thoughts from thought to thought. And you know how many thoughts we can have during a day?

• 2:32:11Danny Jones?

  How many?

• 2:32:11Speaker 02

  Ta- sixty thousands sometimes. So this is the key. Focus attention for everything you do, your work, my work, whether you're you're racing cars. You're doing a professional NFL football. The quarterback, for instance, he needs to be in the zone. If he's not, he's not going to be that good. He needs to train his attention. So if I would be a NFL coach, if I would work with my players, I would ask them to do Buddhist kind of exercise to train their attention. And they would, they would have an unfair advantage over other teams.

• 2:32:55Danny Jones?

  This is like meditation, right? Clearing your mind.

• 2:32:58Speaker 02

  Yes, this is the, you cannot meditate if your mind is wandering all the time.

• 2:33:05Speaker 01

  What's the secret to being a great host this season? Keeping things deliciously simple, like mixing Simply Cranberry into a festive drink as guests arrive, or serving up a warm mug of Simply Apple on a chilly night. That means less time behind the scenes and more time in the moment with everyone. Crafted with real fruit, Simply juices and fruit drinks make any holiday drink effortless, inviting, and completely delicious. Simply, say yes to simple.

• 2:33:34Speaker 03

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot, designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month, or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 2:34:03Speaker 02

  Have you tried?

• 2:34:04Danny Jones?

  I've tried. It's difficult for me.

• 2:34:06Speaker 02

  It's for me too, because I'm too, naturally too overexcited. Unless I train attention and focus, and then it's better.

• 2:34:16Danny Jones?

  This is my problem with telepathy. Everyone talks about telepathy.

• 2:34:19Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, because...

• 2:34:19Danny Jones?

  How could I be telepathic when I have 30,000 thoughts going around at once?

• 2:34:22Speaker 02

  You cannot, you cannot. Unless you're, you have a superpower and you're very strong and you can emit your thoughts, but you know, it's good for movies, Marvel Comics.

• 2:34:34Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:34:34Speaker 02

  But in reality, no.

• 2:34:37Danny Jones?

  As a neuroscience, as neuroscience begins to map the spiritual experience of various content of contemplative, easy for you to say, contemplative traditions, what do you think are the clinical implications of these states, insights, and awakenings?

• 2:34:50Speaker 02

  Well, that's what I was addressing.

• 2:34:52Danny Jones?

  We discussed this, yes, exactly.

• 2:34:53Speaker 02

  In all of synthesis, we will be able, as a human species, the human species, to connect more and more with our spiritual nature essence, which means that ultimately, if more and more people are doing this, and now I want to travel the whole world to tell the good news, the message, we can change, not genetically, through consciousness, the human species and the future of humanity. We have that power. It's built in.

• 2:35:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:27Speaker 02

  But if you're not told about that in school, you don't know necessarily.

• 2:35:33Speaker 02

  So, but we can really change society, culture, and the world through this.

• 2:35:41Danny Jones?

  If I was you, I would want to go study the brains of like some children or some people in like uncontested tribes in the rainforest, see what's going on in their brains.

• 2:35:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but they don't like to be, you know, it's sensitive.

• 2:35:55Danny Jones?

  It's sensitive, but nothing easy.

• 2:35:57Speaker 02

  I have native blood and I, we didn't want to be bothered when I was young. We were, we preferred the woods, my father and I. So I can imagine that if you live in the middle of the jungle, no.

• 2:36:09Danny Jones?

  If you could hypothesize what you would see if you were doing like a brain scan on one of those guys, what would you think, what would you think you would see?

• 2:36:19Speaker 02

  You know, scientists, they base what they see on empirical findings.

• 2:36:23Danny Jones?

  Somebody who has no connection to the technological world.

• 2:36:28Speaker 02

  Oh, I know. We have, you know, the thousands and thousands of thoughts I was talking about earlier. They are related to one major neural circuit that is called the default mode network. And this thing runs all the time, except it slows down when you go outside of yourself as the small self and you, you reach greater aspects of yourself with the major uppercase letter S. It means that the key slowed down your thoughts, but you know, we cannot do this automatically because we say that.

• 2:37:09Speaker 02

  So you, we have to show people in all of synthesis, that's what we do mechanically through frequencies. So your brain doesn't have the choice because there's a phenomenon called the brain entrainment response. And so when the brain catches, even if you're not conscious of this, the low frequencies in the soundtrack.

• 2:37:36Speaker 02

  It will automatically resonate within the frequencies, with the frequencies. So let's say you're, right now, we are generating about beta waves around twenty-five, twenty-three cycles per second, or hertz, because we are wide awake. But, and if you want to expand your state of consciousness, your sense of identity, to go, to connect with the spiritual world, let's say, you have to slow down brain activity, like I said before. That's what we found with the nuns, the, the, the people who experienced, need have experienced during clinical death and so on and so forth. The key is to lower, you lower brain frequencies.

• 2:38:19Speaker 02

  But if you want to remain alert and remember, you cannot go down to zero point five, because you won't remember anything. So I devised new techniques.

• 2:38:30Danny Jones?

  What is zero point five?

• 2:38:32Speaker 02

  Frequency, hertz.

• 2:38:33Danny Jones?

  That's, that's...

• 2:38:34Speaker 02

  Zero is, is death, clinical death.

• 2:38:36Danny Jones?

  And point five is, is like meditative state?

• 2:38:39Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, we don't see zero point five. We see, uh, the lowest, three, four.

• 2:38:46Danny Jones?

  Three or four.

• 2:38:47Speaker 02

  Even with monks, Buddhist monks or nuns.

• 2:38:50Danny Jones?

  And you're saying, so, so, the, the deeper you get into this...

• 2:38:54Speaker 02

  That's the key.

• 2:38:54Danny Jones?

  This meditative state, where your mind is clear of all thoughts and you lower the frequency, the less...

• 2:39:00Speaker 02

  Near zero.

• 2:39:00Danny Jones?

  The least access you have to memories.

• 2:39:03Speaker 02

  Yes, but there's a way to, and that's what I devised in my, that's why I created something different than the Monroe Institute, but I don't want to teach all my secrets. But I can tell you something. You can send, well, I'll tell you. To, to, okay, to go near zero, but to remain awake, there's one way we can do this. And in my lab, we devised this. You send, uh, every, let's say, thirty seconds. At the same time, you send very slow frequencies. In the sounds, you send high-frequency sounds corresponding to gamma waves, forty cycles per second.

• 2:39:47Speaker 02

  This is the key to memory, focus, and so on and so forth. So at the same time, you're near death.

• 2:39:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:57Speaker 02

  In an expanded state of consciousness. If you want to keep the information alive and you want to remain conscious, we use gamma waves. That's the key. Now, everybody will have my recipe, but it's very effective. So even if you're, you feel that you're in a state of connection with God, the light, or whatever, because I see that in Olut Sentis's workshops. The person, the experiencers, can bring back the information because of the gamma burst. It's technical. So you have my recipe.

• 2:40:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:40:35Speaker 02

  And you should, if I come to Florida and I invite you, will you come? Would you come to a workshop to experience that yourself?

• 2:40:43Danny Jones?

  I'd be interested.

• 2:40:44Speaker 02

  Would you be willing to do that?

• 2:40:46Danny Jones?

  Uh, to participate?

• 2:40:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:40:48Danny Jones?

  I'd have to think about that, but I'd be interested in seeing it for sure.

• 2:40:51Speaker 02

  Okay, you could see it with other people. I would invite you.

• 2:40:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:40:54Speaker 02

  And you could film it if you want, and you will see what happens.

• 2:40:58Danny Jones?

  Okay, let me know, I'm interested.

• 2:41:00Speaker 02

  Okay, you're open enough for this?

• 2:41:01Danny Jones?

  I'm open, I'm open.

• 2:41:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:41:03Danny Jones?

  Can you explain the relationship between what a Christ is and the, oh my God, and the potency of mystical experiences?

• 2:41:11Speaker 02

  What a Christ?

• 2:41:12Danny Jones?

  This person, this person is talking about ancient drugs. Drugs and antiquity and mystical experiences.

• 2:41:21Speaker 02

  I was not there.

• 2:41:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we weren't there. All we have is ancient texts to rely on.

• 2:41:26Speaker 02

  I'm old, but I'm not old enough for that.

• 2:41:28Danny Jones?

  Yes, all right. Is the universe infinite? If so, when we dream, are we just connecting to a similar universe and seeing through the doppelganger eyes?

• 2:41:38Speaker 02

  Okay, based on my mystical, my own mystical experiences, the universe is included within consciousness and not vice versa.

• 2:41:48Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:41:49Speaker 02

  The universe does not, it's inside, not outside. The big C consciousness.

• 2:41:57Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:41:58Speaker 02

  But I cannot, it's a mystical experience.

• 2:42:02Danny Jones?

  Do you think we really landed on the moon?

• 2:42:05Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:42:08Speaker 02

  Oh, you were in that kind of conspiracy? No, but I heard both sides. So I, some people told me that Stanley, the great Stanley Kruprick, the great filmmaker, did the fake landing on the moon himself. He was working for the US government, I suppose. And, and, and so they're bringing all sorts of arguments, the flag, the, the shadow, and you know, versus if I listen to Neil Armstrong, he's dead now, but, or, you know, co-pilots and they all swear. And I, my friend Gary Schwartz at University of Arizona was friend of Edgar Mitchell, who

• 2:42:51Speaker 02

  created the Institute of Noetic Sciences. The boss, he was the boss of Dean Raden. And Edgar Mitchell swore to Gary Schwartz that he walked on the moon. He was the sixth man to walk on the moon. So I don't know what to believe, to be honest. Honestly, I don't know.

• 2:43:08Danny Jones?

  I'm with you there.

• 2:43:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:43:09Danny Jones?

  Um, and did you study other, yeah, we talked about that.

• 2:43:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:43:14Danny Jones?

  Um, he did.

• 2:43:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:43:16Danny Jones?

  Thank you. This has been a fascinating conversation.

• 2:43:18Speaker 02

  For me too.

• 2:43:19Danny Jones?

  We will link your new, your new book.

• 2:43:21Speaker 02

  Thanks a lot.

• 2:43:21Danny Jones?

  Awakening the Human Robot.

• 2:43:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:43:23Danny Jones?

  Below. And is there any, any other, um, links or anything that we should tell people about? Where they can go and visit you and find out more about your stuff?

• 2:43:30Speaker 02

  Yes, because I have, um, my website is in French, but I have also an English translation.

• 2:43:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:43:35Speaker 02

  So it's, uh, I, I could send it to you. It's a bit complicated for you.

• 2:43:39Danny Jones?

  Just text it to us. We'll put it in the show notes.

• 2:43:41Speaker 02

  But it's drmarieboaga.com.

• 2:43:43Danny Jones?

  Perfect.

• 2:43:44Speaker 02

  And yes.

• 2:43:45Danny Jones?

  Awesome, man. Thank you so much. This has been fascinating.

• 2:43:47Speaker 02

  Thanks to you. I've been, uh, I, I greatly enjoyed our experience this afternoon.

• 2:43:53Danny Jones?

  Likewise. All right. Good night, everyone.

• 2:44:26Speaker 03

  Say hello to smooth, sugar-like sweetness with Truvia Alulose Plus Stevia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener. This blend delivers balanced sweetness that minimizes aftertaste with zero calories per serving. Designed to fit everyday moments, Truvia Alulose Blend measures cup for cup like sugar, making it effortless to swap into beverages, baking, and even savory dishes. Find Truvia Alulose Plus Stevia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener online and nationwide at Kroger, Target, and your favorite local grocery retailer.