Antidepressants Have Killed Our Sex Life

On today’s episode, we hear about: A young woman struggling with her boyfriend’s lack of sex drive A daughter wondering if she should donate a kidney to her estranged mother A wife that’s unsure how to support her fiancée and his family Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Need to talk to someone? BetterHelp is virtual therapy when it’s convenient for you. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. These are the BEST sheets and towels in the world. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Getting lots of spam calls? DeleteMe can clean up your online presence for you. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Find peace every day. Hallow is the simplest way to slow down and get your head right for the day. Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. I have Helix Midnight mattresses in EVERY bedroom in my house. Get 20% off when you visit Helix Sleep and take the sleep quiz to see what you need! I took Thorne supplements way before I worked at Ramsey. I’m stoked that we can work together now! Get 25% for LIFE at Thorne. Head over to Poncho Outdoors to try the best outdoor performance shirt for yourself! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I've been with my partner for almost two years and when I met him, I didn't know he was an alcoholic.

• 0:10Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, boy.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  He has now been sober for 134 days.

• 0:13Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  But during one of his last benders, he told me that I confused love with sex and that's true, probably.

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health, on your relationships, on your marriage, on your kids, whatever you've got going on. If you want to be on the show, go out to johndeloney.com/ask, A-S-K, fill out the form. It'll come to the great and powerful Kelly and she'll get you on the show. Love to have you on. Take two seconds, please, please, please, and hit the subscribe button and the like button and all of that stuff, especially on YouTube. If you'll hit the subscribe button, it just kicks us up in the algorithm and it puts

• 1:04Dr. John Delony?

  the show in front of more people. I'm so, so grateful for everybody that's done that. Thank you so, so much. We crossed 100 million views last month. I don't even have a psychology for that.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  It's mind boggling. It really is.

• 1:19Dr. John Delony?

  My mom does nothing but hit refresh all day and subscribe, refresh and subscribe.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  We love her for it.

• 1:24Dr. John Delony?

  She's getting after it, dude. 100 million views. That is... Never mind. Let's go try to do the math. Minus 17, I'm not that... Let's just go out to Salt Lake City and talk to Sarah. What's up, Sarah?

• 1:37Speaker 00

  Hey, how are you?

• 1:39Dr. John Delony?

  I'm great. How are you?

• 1:41Speaker 00

  I'm doing okay.

• 1:42Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 1:43Speaker 00

  So, um, little background, I've been with my partner for almost two years and when I met him, I didn't know he was an alcoholic.

• 1:52Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:54Speaker 00

  And he's done rehab and, you know, a couple of stints and detoxes and stuff, but he has now been sober for 134 days.

• 2:03Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 2:04Speaker 00

  And he is working on his sobriety. He's going to AA. He's gone to an AA meeting almost all of those days.

• 2:10Dr. John Delony?

  How old are you guys?

• 2:11Speaker 00

  Uh, I'm 49 and he's 56.

• 2:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  Um, so it does seem like he's actually working on sobriety, not just not drinking. So I'm super proud of him for that. Um, but during one of his last benders, he told me that I confuse love with sex. And that's true, probably. Um, but after his last detox.

• 2:36Dr. John Delony?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 2:40Dr. John Delony?

  Can I do two things?

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:43Dr. John Delony?

  Sorry to interrupt you. Whenever I hear something that I just need to hit a pause on, I want to hit a pause on it real quick. Okay.

• 2:48Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:49Dr. John Delony?

  Um, number one, you might confuse love with sex. At times, almost every human on the planet does that. And number two, I put zero, none, zilch, stock in what somebody on a bender rips off at me. Okay?

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 3:11Dr. John Delony?

  So whatever you might confuse love with sex, very common thing. And it might be something relationally to work through, and there might be deep seated roots in it. Blah, blah, all that's might be true. You don't get to lob grenades at me when you're not sober as a way to protect yourself. You get what I'm saying?

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get it.

• 3:32Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so keep going.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  Okay, so, um, in his last detox, um, after that, they put him on Prozac. And it obviously drastically impacted our sex life.

• 3:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, just crush your libido, yeah.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  And, um, I tried to be okay with it because I'm seeing a lot of really positive changes. I'm seeing, you know, he hasn't missed a day of work in over four months now. He is, um, you know, he was home and present when we were together. Um, he would cuddle me at night and touch me at night and we talked all the time. And so I had all these different types of intimacy, but I didn't have the physical intimacy, like the sex part. I mean, he touched me, it wasn't like he didn't touch me, but, um, I had a really hard time with it. And, um, my anxieties poured through the roof and, um,

• 4:30Speaker 00

  So he went off his Prozac and now I'm starting to see that he is less um present when he's home.

• 4:37Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  He's still going to AA. Um, he hasn't met with his sponsor in over a month now.

• 4:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  Um, and uh, you know, when, when I talked to him about um, how I was struggling with the lack of sex life we had, um, he told me, you know, I, I talked to my doctor and stuff like that and he doesn't really do that when he goes to his doctor.

• 5:04Dr. John Delony?

  How do you know?

• 5:05Speaker 00

  And so, cause we talk about it afterwards and I'm like, you know, hey, how'd your doctor's appointment go? And he's like, my good. You know, did, did you ask your doctor about switching meds or doing something like that? And he goes, no, he doesn't like getting on a second medication to, you know, and, and I'm like, well, yeah, but we still got this problem and...

• 5:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Sex is incredibly important to a relationship and different people have different libido. All that stuff is navigated in every marriage ever, always, right?

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:47Dr. John Delony?

  But you have a husband who's been an alcoholic for a long time, who's in treatment, who's also getting help for depression, who's also willing to touch you and I'm assuming satisfy you sexually except for intercourse. Is that fair or no?

• 6:03Speaker 00

  No.

• 6:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so he just won't do anything at all?

• 6:08Speaker 00

  Before he got sober, I would have said he would have absolutely done that. Um, but no.

• 6:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. My, my question is, or I guess my statement is this.

• 6:21Dr. John Delony?

  This is a guy who's got, has been running from demons for a long time. Is that fair?

• 6:26Speaker 00

  Very fair.

• 6:27Dr. John Delony?

  He's got a lot of physical challenges. He's worked in through his body, both emotionally, but also just, just physically, right?

• 6:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:37Dr. John Delony?

  So there's gotta be a time of compassion and letting him get his feet underneath him.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  And that's what I'm trying to do, but I can't seem to, I can't seem to do that.

• 6:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, tell me, tell me about that. Let's take him off the equation. How does three months of no sex for somebody who's trying to not die, why does that set off every alarm in your body?

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Um.

• 7:06Dr. John Delony?

  Or I don't say why, that's an unfair question, but where does that come from?

• 7:12Speaker 00

  My ex-husband, um, it kind of the same thing, you know, our sex life just dwindled to nothing. And so I was, you know, asking for date nights and things like that. And, um, one time I asked him what turns him on. And we were laying in bed and I said, what's one thing that turns you on? And, um, he couldn't really come up with an answer. And, um, so a few minutes later, I went and sat on the couch and then he came out and was really angry, you know, like hit a lamp and it fell to the ground and the light bulb shattered

• 7:52Speaker 00

  all over. And he left for like 24 hours. And then when he came home, I got the silent treatment for three days. And then, um, when he started talking to me again about the stupid mundane things, kids and, and grocery lists and things like that, I, I asked him if we could talk about what happened so we could try to find a way that so it didn't happen again. And I just got the silent treatment again. And so.

• 8:21Dr. John Delony?

  How long ago was this?

• 8:24Speaker 00

  It was 2010.

• 8:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 8:31Speaker 00

  And I never talked to him about sex or anything ever again. I never tried to initiate ever. Um, and we were together for another 12 years. And, uh,

• 8:44Dr. John Delony?

  So did you go 12 years in basically a sexless marriage? Or did you go 12 years in a silent marriage where he got what he wanted whenever he wanted it?

• 8:54Speaker 00

  It was emotionally not good, but that was the only physical

• 9:01Speaker 00

  display of violence that there ever was.

• 9:03Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So can I, can I,

• 9:08Dr. John Delony?

  can I encourage you to take another track in your current relationship?

• 9:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Here's step one. Ex-husband no longer gets a vote in my current marriage.

• 9:23Dr. John Delony?

  Period. Okay? And a note, that's, that's easy to say. There's a whole bunch of work to be done there. I recently told somebody on a previous show, if this is something you want to consider, I wouldn't recommend it in a marriage bedroom, but there's something about, um, I wouldn't put his name on it, but maybe put a brick or a cinder block by your bed. So when you open your eyes in the morning, you can see it and you can say, I'm not carrying you around anymore.

• 9:54Dr. John Delony?

  And leave that for a few weeks. Eventually that thing gets out of your bedroom and it's out. Like, I'm not carrying you around anymore.

• 10:01Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing is, if you're married to somebody and they're going through a pretty significant health crisis, this is male or female.

• 10:10Dr. John Delony?

  And they're trying to stay alive.

• 10:15Dr. John Delony?

  Asking them to get off potentially life-saving medication because I have to have sex right now or I get anxious. That's a problem for you and your doctor and your therapist to go talk through.

• 10:29Dr. John Delony?

  Cause every single marriage in the world has seasons of ups and downs and pregnancies and surgeries and grief and cancers and people that just has seasons where we're not able to be sexually intimate.

• 10:45Dr. John Delony?

  And if your body goes into such, um, such an anxiety ridden response,

• 10:54Dr. John Delony?

  which sounds like there's such an anger, a severing of an anxious attachment that just sends your body into like panic, if you will. Then I want to go sit down with somebody and say, hey, I need to heal some of this old trauma. And I'd be willing to get to bet, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, that your relationship with sex and intimacy, the, the, the alignment challenges you have, your, your whole physical and emotional ecosystem around sex started way before your last husband. Is that fair?

• 11:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:26Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Do you have childhood crap around sex and abuse and things?

• 11:31Speaker 00

  Not abuse, but, um, I grew up in a really religious culture that, um,

• 11:38Speaker 00

  I know has negatively impacted.

• 11:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 11:44Dr. John Delony?

  So here's what I want for you. I want you to have an amazing relationship to yourself and your sexuality and an understanding of what sex means to you and your body and your libido. And it's okay to have an off the chart libido. That's great. Wonderful. Awesome. And it's great to have conversations with your now husband who's taking medication and saying like, hey, you may not be able to get erections during this time. You may not be able to, um, have intercourse with me, but is there other things we can do? Is there other things we can do to be intimate and you may not quote unquote be feeling it, but you also feel this relationship? Like there's all kinds of intermediary conversations.

• 12:28Dr. John Delony?

  But if he is faced with, I need to save my life or her life, it sounds like he's saying, I'll try to save hers, but it's going to cost it. You get what I'm saying? That's an impossible choice.

• 12:41Dr. John Delony?

  And what I don't want is two people who have some demons they need to work through, trying to so codependently use each other to stay, to stay alive that you both burn to the ground in the process.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 12:55Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get it.

• 12:58Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to love sex in your new marriage, and I also want you to champion your husband's health journey. And I want you to be able to see past this isn't forever, but this might be right now. And also, I want your body to not go into full panic mode if you don't have physical intimacy to tell you that you're okay or you're still loved.

• 13:24Dr. John Delony?

  Because despite his struggles with alcohol and despite his mental health struggles, it sounds like this guy loves you, is that right?

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, he does.

• 13:34Dr. John Delony?

  Does that feel crazy to have a guy love you so much? He's willing to get off his meds and just tough it out for you?

• 13:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it does.

• 13:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, he thinks you're worth it. He thinks you're worth it. I think you're worth it. But I also think he's worth it, too. So let me tell you something. You're not crazy for wanting to sleep with your new husband. And I can guarantee you, there's millions of men listening to this call thinking, "What?" You know what I mean? And it's not wise to ask him to, 130 days into a new sobriety journey, working with a physician, working with a mental health professional,

• 14:25Dr. John Delony?

  finally gotten some low-level SSRI that's gonna help it. It's unwise to take him off of that immediately if it's helping in all these other areas. And it's not honest as a physician to say, "I don't, I won't have any other conversations right now." That's a strange approach. Unless the physician says, "Hey, give it six months. Give it a minute to get everything stable, and then we'll start tinkering with things to get your libido back." But I want you to believe you're worth being loved outside of the bedroom.

• 15:06Dr. John Delony?

  You get that?

• 15:07Speaker 00

  How do I do that?

• 15:08Dr. John Delony?

  You gotta sit down with somebody and start being honest. And you've been silent for over a decade or more?

• 15:17Dr. John Delony?

  Because you learned if you ask even a remotely emotional question, somebody's gonna smash a lamp in your face and then not talk to you.

• 15:28Dr. John Delony?

  Because somebody told you as a little kid, "We don't talk about these things. We don't look at these things. We don't even acknowledge these things."

• 15:38Dr. John Delony?

  And they made you feel crazy for being curious, or for wanting to explore, or for liking sex. You were told something was wrong with you and it's just false and wrong.

• 15:52Dr. John Delony?

  But that kind of healing will come sitting down with a professional therapist.

• 15:59Dr. John Delony?

  And here's how I think their trajectory will probably go. And if it goes this way, that would be amazing.

• 16:06Dr. John Delony?

  That you sit down with your husband and you say, "Hey, I love you to the moon and back and I'm watching you take these steps to love yourself and to love me and I'm so proud of you and I'm so grateful. Thank you."

• 16:18Dr. John Delony?

  I've also realized I've got some sexual trauma in my past. And I'm trying to get you to carry that. And right now, you're working on your healing. I'm gonna go talk to a professional because I wanna get well too. I'm being inspired by you.

• 16:33Dr. John Delony?

  And that will hopefully lead to y'all ending up together

• 16:39Dr. John Delony?

  in a marriage counselor, the marriage counselor's office negotiating, talking through how y'all are gonna be married together. And what sex looks like when he's 56 and he's taking medication and he can't get it up, but he still wants to love you and still wants to give you a good time. And what it looks like for y'all to talk about sex. And what it looks like when he wakes up on a random Tuesday morning and he's ready to go and how to approach you with it. Like, all those things.

• 17:12Dr. John Delony?

  But all of this, in your world, will start with you believing I'm worth the conversations. All these years, 46 years of squashing who I am and what I'm curious about, what I wanna talk about. That was never your fault. Your parents should've talked to you about this stuff.

• 17:27Dr. John Delony?

  Your abusive ex-husband should've talked to you about stuff.

• 17:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Do you believe me?

• 17:41Speaker 00

  In my head, I do.

• 17:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, that's good enough. I'll take that. I'm good enough. That's good enough for me.

• 17:47Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna hook you up with three months for free of with my friends at BetterHelp, so you can start talking to someone today or tomorrow, okay?

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 17:55Dr. John Delony?

  I am super honored to talk to you today, okay?

• 17:58Speaker 00

  Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

• 18:00Dr. John Delony?

  All right, hang on the line, and we're gonna get you hooked up with some BetterHelp counseling, so you can, from the comfort of your own house, on Zoom or on screen, you can get to talking to somebody ASAP. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come back, a woman is torn over becoming a kidney donor for the mother who hurt her.

• 18:23Dr. John Delony?

  All right, time for a quick word about DeleteMe. Does anyone else feel like our digital footprints are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right to our doors? Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks. That's phishing with a P-H, where they try to trick you into giving them something by pretending to know you. You might get an email or a text or a phone call, and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's looking out for you, but they're not. With the new technological advancements, no one is really safe anymore. So what are we supposed to do? You can start controlling what you can, and you can learn how to be careful online and offline. And you can sign up with DeleteMe. I use and recommend DeleteMe because they work in the background to reduce

• 19:07Dr. John Delony?

  my online presence, and that way I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data. DeleteMe has reviewed over tens of thousands of sites for me, and when they found my stuff, they've removed them from hundreds of the sites. And this has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop the phishing attacks, stop the harassment, and stop the other online threats before they start, and take control of your digital privacy with DeleteMe. Go to joindelete.me/deloney today for 20% off an annual plan, and that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. That's joindelete.me/deloney.

• 19:46Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Missouri and talk to well, well, well, my Michelle. What's up, Michelle?

• 19:53Speaker 03

  Hi, Dr. John.

• 19:55Dr. John Delony?

  How's it going?

• 19:57Speaker 03

  I'm doing okay. I'm very nervous.

• 19:59Dr. John Delony?

  Ah, don't be nervous, you're good. Now, actually, you know what? You can be as nervous as you want to be. Uh, I haven't lost anybody yet, so I'm glad you're here.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Uh, thank you. Um, so I guess I'll, I'll ask my question and then I'll just go into a little bit of background here. Um, so I need help, um, deciding whether I should be evaluated to determine if I'm a donor match for my mother who is in stage three kidney failure. Um, so just for some background, both my parents are alcoholics. Um, they were very heavy, um, they were very much in their, um, addiction, um, for the majority of my adolescence. Um, I've experienced a lot of verbal and, um, emotional abuse and neglect from both

• 20:50Speaker 03

  of my parents when I was, when I was younger. Um, in 2007, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. You know, she did the treatment and went into remission and then some years later she was diagnosed with heart failure, which, uh, led to her heart transplant in 2015. Um, there were periods of time when they would not drink, but it's always something that they kind of went back to. She's never really lived a healthy lifestyle, like not eating healthy, not taking care of herself, not exercising, not addressing her mental health problems, not taking her medication properly. Um, as a child and a teenager, I struggled immensely with her alcoholism. When I was in the fifth grade, I began to

• 21:32Speaker 03

  self-harm. They eventually found out, took me to a few, a few counseling sessions, sessions, and, um, it was never brought up again or, or spoken about. Um, I continued to self-harm until I was about 18. Um, I moved out of my parents' home and I haven't self-harmed since. Um, I'm not very close with my mother. Um, I don't talk to her much.

• 21:56Dr. John Delony?

  So bring, bring me here to, bring me now. I, I've got the full picture there. It's been a rough go. So how, how, how old are you right now?

• 22:03Speaker 03

  I'm 31.

• 22:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And how old is she?

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Uh, she's, uh, about 62, I believe.

• 22:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And I'm guessing she's in renal failure, her kidneys aren't working anymore? Oh yeah, you just, you said that already. So she's in stage three? And have they reached out to you as a potential donor?

• 22:22Speaker 03

  Um, they haven't necessarily reached out to me, but they have said you guys should be um evaluated to see if you are potentially a donor, yeah.

• 22:34Dr. John Delony?

  Wow, that's a tough one.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's lots of layers.

• 22:38Dr. John Delony?

  Well, can I peel back all the layers for you?

• 22:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:44Dr. John Delony?

  I want to wipe the table clean of all layers.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 22:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, and the way you just, um, and as much for you as for everyone else listening, you gave me, you just like took a completely peeled onion and you layered it back together for me, starting in as a kid, fifth grader.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:06Dr. John Delony?

  All the way 26 years later till you're 31 years old.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:13Dr. John Delony?

  And then you've got a mother who's already had a heart transplant, who continues to drink, who's had cancer, who's had all these things, and the message that she needs to be a steward of her body has never gotten through. And I'm not going to blame her. She may be sick, she may be ill, I don't know what her childhood was like, but for whatever reason, she's continued to choose, choice after choice, to not go get well, right?

• 23:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:37Dr. John Delony?

  So I want to take my arm and swipe the table completely clean.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 23:43Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to tell me,

• 23:50Dr. John Delony?

  are you the kind of person that feels like you have to do this no matter what? Or are you the kind of person who doesn't want to do this, but you got a little guilt? Or who are you in this moment faced with this decision?

• 24:05Speaker 03

  So I-

• 24:06Dr. John Delony?

  Because, listen, real quick, all of this other stuff

• 24:11Dr. John Delony?

  is, it feels like you're trying to make a case for yourself as to why you don't have to or shouldn't want to, or if you feel guilty, you shouldn't feel guilty. And I want to get, I want to free you from all of that.

• 24:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:23Dr. John Delony?

  Do you want to do this thing?

• 24:25Speaker 03

  I don't. I actually, I, I don't. I truly don't think that I do want to.

• 24:31Dr. John Delony?

  Just, just say that, just say that. I don't want to.

• 24:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't want to.

• 24:36Dr. John Delony?

  Put a period at the end of that and just exhale for a second. Drop your shoulders. I don't.

• 24:41Dr. John Delony?

  Now, when you say, "I don't want to," whose voice is coming in saying, "No, no, no, but you should"? Whose voices are that? Is it your churches? Is it your friends? Is it a distant guilt, um, like ridden voice from your mom? Who's coming in and saying, countering what you don't want?

• 25:01Speaker 03

  Um, mainly my siblings, my sister, to be exact.

• 25:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Tell me about that.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Um, she's my older sister. Um, I have asked her previous, she's aware of, you know, my trauma and my struggles with my parents. Um, I've asked her previously if she would resent me in the future, if I choose not to be evaluated. And she's essentially said that she, you know, she, she doesn't know, she can't, she can't tell the future of that.

• 25:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, let me ask you this. Do you have a close relationship with your older sister?

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Um, sometimes, yes, sometimes, no.

• 25:38Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 25:40Dr. John Delony?

  With that means no.

• 25:42Dr. John Delony?

  That means sometimes you'll perform well with each other, and sometimes maybe you go to each other for comfort. But that's not a, you don't, you don't have a ride or die relationship. In, in abusive households,

• 25:55Dr. John Delony?

  sometimes kids huddle together and they become inseparable because they had to, and it becomes this lifelong bond. And other times, they get split up. One becomes the caretaker. One basically becomes the parent of the household. One becomes the blamer. One becomes the peacekeeper. One becomes the, "I'm out of here." And you may have seasons or moments where you're really tightly knit out of a shared traumatic experience, but you all aren't close. Does that sound right?

• 26:20Speaker 03

  That's very accurate.

• 26:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So, I'm going to challenge you. Why are you giving your sister a vote here?

• 26:28Speaker 03

  Um, because I, I, I want to, um, I guess just, I want, I seek a close relationship with her, and I always have.

• 26:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, stop right, stop, stop right there. You want a close relationship with your sister, period. Can you drop your shoulders on that one?

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:52Dr. John Delony?

  You're 31.

• 26:55Dr. John Delony?

  You should have had that a long time ago.

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:59Dr. John Delony?

  And the question I have for you is,

• 27:03Dr. John Delony?

  does she want a close relationship with you?

• 27:08Speaker 03

  She says she does.

• 27:09Dr. John Delony?

  Behavior is a language. Does she want a close relationship with you?

• 27:13Speaker 03

  No.

• 27:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Can we just sit there for a second?

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:20Dr. John Delony?

  Because after your parents didn't show up for you, your parents were sick your whole childhood.

• 27:28Dr. John Delony?

  Your sister probably played a pretty maternal role in your life, making sure you were at school on time and making sure you were safe and you were driven to where you needed to go.

• 27:38Dr. John Delony?

  And I can't imagine the nightmare that she doesn't want to be close with you either.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:50Dr. John Delony?

  And it's real easy to be 31 and start to think, what is so unlovable about me that both mom and dad and now her?

• 27:59Dr. John Delony?

  I just need to tell you, it's not you. They have their own demons, all three of them.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:05Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry.

• 28:11Dr. John Delony?

  You doing something that you don't want to do, and this is an extreme situation, you giving up an organ, doing a thing you don't want to do,

• 28:21Dr. John Delony?

  will not lead to this close relationship with your sister that you're so, you want that so badly you'll give up a part of your body to a dying woman?

• 28:35Dr. John Delony?

  You want it so badly, and I'm just telling you, on the other side of that, that's not going to be the thing, because you have never been the problem in that relationship.

• 28:44Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:50Dr. John Delony?

  And it feels powerless, right?

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Um.

• 28:53Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry.

• 28:58Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have younger siblings?

• 29:00Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I'm the youngest.

• 29:01Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. How many, do you have an older sister? Do you have an older brother, any other older siblings?

• 29:08Speaker 03

  Just an older brother and an older sister.

• 29:11Dr. John Delony?

  What's your brother say?

• 29:13Speaker 03

  Um, my brother doesn't feel like me or my sister should have anything to do with it. He feels as though him being the oldest should, um, kind of take over and see if he can be a donor, but he has his own health issues that would disqualify him from being a donor.

• 29:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 29:36Dr. John Delony?

  Are you married?

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 29:38Dr. John Delony?

  What's your husband say?

• 29:40Speaker 03

  My husband absolutely does not want me to do it.

• 29:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 29:46Dr. John Delony?

  Of all the people you mentioned,

• 29:51Dr. John Delony?

  I would take his vote into account first.

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:57Dr. John Delony?

  And I would take your vote into account first. And my guess is, your vote has been squashed your entire life.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 30:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 30:08Dr. John Delony?

  Now, I can't on this call tell you what to do. I'm not gonna do that. And in my mind, I might be thinking, "You're crazy. You should give your..." I'm not, but I could be. What I think about this doesn't matter.

• 30:23Dr. John Delony?

  What I want to do is clear the deck and tell you that the choice is painful, but it's simpler than it seems.

• 30:35Dr. John Delony?

  And if the outcome of, "I'm gonna give a kidney to somebody who is desperate for life, and who is life-giving..." And I want to say there's an ROI on doing the right thing. That's not what I'm trying to say. But I'm willing to put my life and health for my family on the line because this is a person who is XYZ. Then I will support you all day long.

• 31:00Dr. John Delony?

  But I'll also support you if you say, "I'm gonna put a kidney on the table for somebody who A,

• 31:09Dr. John Delony?

  doesn't care,

• 31:12Dr. John Delony?

  B,

• 31:15Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing it not to save somebody's life, to give them more life, but I'm doing it to try to win favor with somebody else." I would tell you, "Don't do that." I'll support you in that, too.

• 31:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:29Dr. John Delony?

  And I guess I mostly want to just give you a hug and say, "I'm sorry, this whole thing's a mess."

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 31:40Dr. John Delony?

  Because I've seen the other situation where parents, a parent needs a kidney or needs some sort of support,

• 31:48Dr. John Delony?

  and because of the legacy they've left for their kids, there's a line of kids and cousins, like, "I'm in. I will. I'm in." Right?

• 32:00Dr. John Delony?

  And I hate this is the world you've grown up in.

• 32:07Dr. John Delony?

  It just breaks my heart for you, breaks my heart for your sister, your brother, breaks my heart for your parents, breaks my heart for everybody.

• 32:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:14Dr. John Delony?

  So what are you thinking?

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Um, I mean, I think you just kinda solidified everything that I have, I have been thinking. Um, you know, I have two kids, so I also have to think of my kids and, you know, what, what it could possibly mean for my kids in the future.

• 32:34Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, it could go both ways, right? Let's say you're, you're, you had a great relationship with your mom. Um, everything was totally different. One of the greatest gifts your kids could see is their mom, mom's sacrifice.

• 32:49Dr. John Delony?

  Like, that would be an amazing gift for them too, right?

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, mhm.

• 32:53Dr. John Delony?

  And so your kids get a gift either way.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 32:57Dr. John Delony?

  Whether they see mom giving up one of her kidneys for one of her family members, that shows them the power of family and the power of sacrifice. That could be awesome in, in and of itself.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Mhm.

• 33:08Dr. John Delony?

  And also, you choosing not to, and maybe, I don't know how old they are, but you explaining, here's my thought process. Here's why I am opting out of this situation. Here's why I'm not even gonna get tested. Um, my family has pretty much excluded me my entire life, and now they're trying to draw me back in, because I have something they want. Whether that's money, whether that's a kidney, whether that's job success, whether that's fame, whatever that is. Um, they're trying to draw me back in to use me for a thing.

• 33:40Dr. John Delony?

  That's a great lesson for them too.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  Mhm, yeah. Yeah, but I also feel a little bit of guilt that if she doesn't pull through and ends up passing, that they, they, I mean, she doesn't have much relationship with them as it is, but there, there goes their grandma, and I maybe could have helped save her.

• 34:01Dr. John Delony?

  So fast forward a year, she's got your kidney.

• 34:06Dr. John Delony?

  Is she out running around with those kids? Is she calling them over to see her?

• 34:10Speaker 03

  Um, probably not.

• 34:12Dr. John Delony?

  No?

• 34:15Dr. John Delony?

  Is that heartbreaking to even think about? Yes, of course.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:22Dr. John Delony?

  The challenge is, by doing something really courageous and brave, like donating a kidney, which I'm in high support of, the act of, I think it's a noble, awesome thing, bone marrow, all that stuff,

• 34:36Dr. John Delony?

  is

• 34:39Dr. John Delony?

  doing it for codependent reasons, or doing it to try to further perpetuate or kick down the road a fantasy of, now, everything's gonna be okay. Now, my sister's gonna finally love me after 31 years. Now, my mom's gonna finally start being a good steward of her body, even though with her heart transplant, and this, and this, and this, she hasn't. Now, my older brother is gonna think highly, like, these things aren't gonna come to fruition. Now, even if your mom never changes, and she's not been there for you, she struggled with addiction, she has got a new heart, got a new this, got a new this, cancer survivor, all these things.

• 35:18Dr. John Delony?

  If you said, "I want to do this, 'cause I think it's right," knock your lights out. I'll support you. And hopefully, if you sat down with your husband and said, "I know, and I know, and I know, and I want to do this thing," he would say, "I don't want you to do it, but it's your body, and I will stand here with you. I'll hold your hand through and before and after the surgery."

• 35:39Dr. John Delony?

  I would hope that would be the case. So, I don't wanna say you only do nice things to people if there's an ROI in it, like, you're gonna live a healthy life. Sometimes you just do the next right thing. But I guess what I wanna free you from is, you have any obligation to fulfill some fantasy of a repaired relationship, worth being loved, all these things. You're not gonna get that externally.

• 36:03Dr. John Delony?

  And I just hate this whole situation for you. So, thank you so much for the call, Michelle. I wish you the absolute best in whatever you decide to do. And I guess I'll just lean on you and tell you, choose guilt over resentment. You're gonna feel guilty either way. You're gonna feel guilty no matter what decision you make.

• 36:20Dr. John Delony?

  Which one of these decisions are going to lead you to a place where you absolutely resent yourself and your situation and your family members? And which one of those are you going to feel guilty? But no pun intended, you're going to be able to remain whole. Thank you so, so much for the call. We come back. A woman is unsure of how to help her future in-laws without overstepping. Oh, boy, this will be a good one. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, everybody in the world is talking about therapy these days. And I often hear folks say, "I don't have any major traumas in my life. I don't think therapy's for me." This is super important. Therapy isn't just for people dealing with major traumas. It can be for that. It has been for me.

• 37:04Dr. John Delony?

  But it can also be a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional and relational well-being. I see a therapist for both the big challenges from my past, as well as helping me navigate the day-to-day challenges that pop up in my life. And many of you should see someone, too. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist just for them. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist.

• 37:46Dr. John Delony?

  If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time easily and for no extra cost. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go to Columbus, Ohio and talk to Alexis. Hey Alexis, what's up?

• 38:08Speaker 04

  Hey, how are you?

• 38:10Dr. John Delony?

  Doing remarkable. How are you?

• 38:12Speaker 04

  Not too bad.

• 38:13Dr. John Delony?

  Good.

• 38:14Speaker 04

  You know.

• 38:15Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 38:16Speaker 04

  So I just have a situation I wanted to get some advice on. My fiance's dad has been in and out of the hospital the last two or three months, in and out of rehab, different things like that. And I'm just struggling with trying to find my place and trying to be supportive, not only to my fiance, but to his family as well, without kind of overstepping my bounds. So I just wanted to get your take on that.

• 38:43Dr. John Delony?

  Um, how do you feel like you're overstepping your bounds?

• 38:47Speaker 04

  I feel like I tend to get more worked up, I'm learning than some like what I'm finding is that his family, their dynamics are different than mine, obviously, um, but I'm learning in their family, they tend to get riled up on things that aren't necessarily an issue. I'm struggling with getting um, straight information from his mom or his sister, or even him sometimes. Um, and so I'm just trying, I feel like I can help. I have um, background in social work. I'm a social worker for uh,

• 39:24Dr. John Delony?

  Oh no, oh no.

• 39:27Speaker 04

  I'm trying not to be that person, but I also feel like there's a need.

• 39:32Dr. John Delony?

  You are, you're a trained social worker. That's how you guys are. Y'all wanna help everybody.

• 39:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I feel like there's a need to be supportive. I'm just trying to figure out, okay, what's too much and what's, you know, not enough. I don't know. I just.

• 39:44Dr. John Delony?

  There's, there's three big challenges here, okay? Here's challenge number one. You have to hose your boots off. What do I mean by that? If you're a social worker by trade, when you walk in the door, you're a fiance first.

• 39:58Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 39:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? And so I have, like, the number of times my wife has said, I don't need any of that counseling crap in here. She was right. And that was on me. I gotta, I gotta unplug.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 40:11Dr. John Delony?

  My dad was a homicide detective, and so whenever he wanted to find out who ate the last, you know, peppermint York, like, it was like, alright, everybody line up, like, hey dude, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you gotta turn your professional thing off when you walk in the door. That's number one. Number two, I have a rule, you can adopt this or not, but as a mental health professional, there's always gonna be somebody somewhere that you think I can help. That's why we got into this job, right?

• 40:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:39Dr. John Delony?

  You will become the most annoying person at every party, every church gathering, every, everything, if you don't adopt this, but you don't have to. I'm just telling you, I've learned this the hard way.

• 40:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:51Dr. John Delony?

  I only answer questions I'm asked.

• 40:54Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 40:54Dr. John Delony?

  And I only enter in to help if I'm asked.

• 40:57Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 40:58Dr. John Delony?

  Unless I see a dire emergency. If someone's, like, a truck's coming, I'm gonna shove somebody out of the way.

• 41:05Dr. John Delony?

  But if I hear somebody like, dude, my wife is fill in the blank XYZ, and I'm like, you're a dummy. You should not have done that.

• 41:11Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 41:12Dr. John Delony?

  I used to just be like, hey, let me tell you something, bro. I don't do that anymore. Unless you're one of my core, core, core friends.

• 41:20Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 41:20Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, here's the third thing. And you can tell me if I'm wrong. Almost always in these situations, you find out who you're married to or who you're marrying as potential life transitions and or tragedies emerge.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 41:39Dr. John Delony?

  And you have to be honest if you're asking yourself, is this how he's going to handle things?

• 41:44Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 41:46Dr. John Delony?

  If we ever have kids and one of our kids gets sick?

• 41:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:49Dr. John Delony?

  When I potentially get cancer one day?

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 41:52Dr. John Delony?

  Is he just gonna bury his head in the sand too?

• 41:56Dr. John Delony?

  And that relationship issue is what you really need to drill in on.

• 42:00Speaker 04

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 42:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:03Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me if I'm right or wrong there.

• 42:05Speaker 04

  Nope, you're right.

• 42:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 42:07Speaker 04

  That I see a lot of the burying the head in the sands, not only like with my fiance, but um with his dad even who's sick and then his mom, like they're very slow to speak up, very slow to ask questions or um, you know, kind of get to the bottom of things. And so I feel like, okay, maybe they just don't know the language. Maybe they just don't know what to ask, but.

• 42:30Dr. John Delony?

  Or maybe, or maybe they just don't care.

• 42:33Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 42:33Dr. John Delony?

  Or maybe they don't want it.

• 42:36Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 42:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:39Dr. John Delony?

  That's heartbreaking. The question you have to ask is, do you want to be married to somebody who has that roadmap and who's unwilling to invest and learn and challenge themselves to develop a new roadmap?

• 42:51Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 42:52Dr. John Delony?

  And that is the harder conversation.

• 42:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. I figured it was something like that.

• 42:59Speaker 04

  Um.

• 43:00Dr. John Delony?

  And so here, here's an amazing way, like, here's how I would have that conversation.

• 43:05Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 43:06Dr. John Delony?

  Something along the lines of, I am seeing a pattern that I would love permission to talk about, but it involves talking about your parents. Is that okay?

• 43:15Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 43:17Dr. John Delony?

  And he might say, I don't want to talk about my parents. You might say, okay, I want to talk about you and me though. And so at some point, we need to have this conversation. Will you tell me when it's a good time?

• 43:27Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 43:27Dr. John Delony?

  And then I'm coming back to you in 24 or 48 hours. And then to be able to say, I watch, I'm watching a pattern emerge. I'm no better than anybody else, but I'm watching that when scary medical news comes up, scary financial news comes up, scary whatever, your parents bury their head in the sand. They don't want to ask questions. They don't want to try to solve the problem and things just kind of is what it is, what it is. And I see that same tendency in you and that makes me nervous for our future. Because I want to be with somebody that faces problems head on.

• 44:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:04Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a scary proposition of a conversation, isn't it?

• 44:08Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 44:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  Which off and on, we've kind of broached that subject. Like this has been going on, I mean, obviously for the last few months, but recently there was an issue that came up. And so over the last few weeks, we've been kind of having that conversation. We're, we're in premarital counseling.

• 44:27Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 44:27Speaker 04

  Kind of perfect timing.

• 44:29Dr. John Delony?

  Perfect.

• 44:29Speaker 04

  For things like that to be brought up. And so it's an ongoing kind of conversation. Neither one of us have a ton of long-term relationship experience. And so I think we're struggling with coming together versus maintaining like our independence and stuff like that in a lot of ways where I'm used to handling certain things with my family, but then I don't want to interject my opinion on what's happening with his family to try to be like intrusive, but we're supposed to come together and, you know, have a foundation of a stance on certain things.

• 45:06Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 45:06Speaker 04

  We're just, we're just, you know, kind of talking through a lot of those things. And he isn't typically one to speak up. Since we've been together, he's been more outspoken. He used to be very, before, you know, we got together, he used to be very just quiet. He kind of let everything around him kind of happen. And now he's more outspoken about it. But I think it's also just a learning curve for both of us.

• 45:32Dr. John Delony?

  Perfect.

• 45:33Speaker 04

  And he's practicing that.

• 45:35Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that's the best you can ask for both of you, right? The thing I always want for couples is not, especially in premarital counseling, is not to have, I mean, you're, you're basically planning. For the first three months, or first six months, like who's gonna pay what, who's gonna hit send on the bills, right? And what bank are we gonna use? And we're both gonna share a checking account, right? And are we gonna pay off our student loan? Like, there's six months of mechanical stuff, right? Logistics. The bigger thing I want people to get from premarital counseling is a framework for repair. There will come a time that one of us hurts each other.

• 46:15Dr. John Delony?

  More than off, more than once, more than 20 times, over the course of our marriage. How will we come back to the table? Or, when I see a side of you that I don't like? How do I bring that to the table? How do I give you bad news? How do I give you, I just, I did something and I need to ask your forgiveness? That's what I'm interested in, in premarital counseling. Especially for folks who are getting married a little bit later. I say later, there's no breaks anymore. But like, who have established their own independent identity, their own lives, they've paid their own bills for years, and now they're joining, joining two people.

• 46:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:59Dr. John Delony?

  I'm more interested in, do y'all have a framework for, when we find a disagreement, do we have a way that we can talk about it? That one person doesn't try to beat the other person up, the other person doesn't stick their head in the sand, or whatever, right? And so, he might be practicing becoming more outspoken. I'm way more interested in his actions.

• 47:19Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 47:20Dr. John Delony?

  And there it goes. It sounds like Kelly's been out driving again, in the background. She's not a great driver. Okay. But you get, you get what I'm saying?

• 47:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying. I think, um...

• 47:40Speaker 04

  We in we've kind of gotten to the part in premarital counseling about like a conflict resolution, communication, all of that. I tend to be like want to talk about it. He tends to what I'm learning is I bring up something, he wants time to process it. So um, we're we're in the middle.

• 48:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so here's the compromise there. Here's the amazing compromise. Um, I'm me and my wife are the exact o- opposite of you two. I want to talk about it right this second. Um, she needs about forty eight hours.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 48:12Dr. John Delony?

  And so the compromise is making sure when I say something hard to hear, or I put a concern down, or I put a I'm sad or frustrated about this particular thing, and she needs time to process it, making sure we have a day or a time on the calendar when we will come back.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 48:32Dr. John Delony?

  Because sometimes I just need some time to process. It becomes a way to stall out and not deal with it.

• 48:39Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 48:40Dr. John Delony?

  And also, sometimes me needing to talk about it all right now is less about solving the issue and more about me vomiting on somebody.

• 48:47Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 48:48Dr. John Delony?

  And so me saying, hey, I've got this issue, and my wife saying, yikes, that's big, or that's heavy, or I need time to process that. I don't even know how I feel about that. I need forty eight hours. We're gonna go to breakfast on this day and we'll talk about it.

• 49:02Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 49:03Dr. John Delony?

  And that puts a boundary on her. That puts a boundary on me.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 49:07Dr. John Delony?

  And so if your husband or your fiance needs time to process, hey, we have to talk about this. I'm struggling with your parents. I'm afraid this is gonna become us. Whoa, that's a lot. And to process it, okay, let's put a date and time on the calendar that we're gonna circle back and talk.

• 49:23Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 49:24Dr. John Delony?

  And that that bounds it. You get what I'm saying?

• 49:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 49:29Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 49:30Speaker 04

  And I think it's I think it also would be a little bit more reassuring to me like, okay, we're gonna have a conversation.

• 49:36Dr. John Delony?

  It's not just gonna be a dot, dot, dot forever.

• 49:37Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah, that. Is what I struggle with.

• 49:41Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, it also gives him some freedom that he doesn't like I shoot from the hip. My wife does not.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 49:47Dr. John Delony?

  And so she has at times felt like she's got to enter into a firefight and that's just not how she rolls. She's a sniper. She shoots you and you're not looking three days later, right? I just want to have a duel at sundown today, right now, right? And so it gives it gives her peace too. That she doesn't know, she knows she doesn't have to respond in real time in a debate right away. And both of us walk away from that exchange with peace.

• 50:15Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 50:16Dr. John Delony?

  So you can ask through your in marriage counseling. If this is a 24, 48 or 72 hour issue.

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 50:26Dr. John Delony?

  Like if you came in and said, Hey, I think I have feelings for a coworker right now. We need to talk about it. He might say that's a 72 hour issue.

• 50:34Dr. John Delony?

  If you came in and said, um, your parents have struggled with alcohol. I've seen you drinking a lot more. He might say, ah, you're right. I'm, oh God, that's a 48 hour issue.

• 50:44Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 50:45Dr. John Delony?

  Um, you were late on paying the water bill again. I want to be the person who hits the thing like, whoa, it's a lot and I feel ashamed and blah. I need that's a 24 hour issue. Y'all get to decide, but just giving those three frameworks. And I just made that up on the spot. That doesn't have to be what y'all do, but having a couple of buttons y'all can push will give you some freedom in that negotiation. But all that to say is to recap, I don't answer questions I'm not asked anymore. I don't interject in people's relationships unless there's a stone cold emergency anymore. If somebody is lecturing me on the virtues of a vegan diet, I just let them rip. If someone's like, you know what's the best ever carnivore? If you eat fiber, you're gonna die. I just whatever, dude. Knock your lights out.

• 51:30Dr. John Delony?

  I saw a meme recently that Keanu Reeves is like, life is too short. If you tell me five plus five is eight, I'm gonna nod and say, that's great. I'm gonna walk on. I don't have time. I don't have time for it unless you ask me, hey, what's five plus five? I'm gonna tell you the answer. Um, and most of the time my relationship projections are me trying to protect myself from having a hard conversation at home.

• 51:52Dr. John Delony?

  With my wife, with my kids. Thanks for the call, Alexis. You're awesome. And best of luck to you in these upcoming conversations. And by the way, good for you for having premarital counseling. Everyone should do that. I didn't, and I regret it. And I think everybody should have some premarital counseling as they're entering into that important relationship. We'll be right back. All right, everybody talks about how important supplements are. But most of what you see on the supplement shelves in your local grocery store is garbage. Fancy labels and cool names with zero substance. I'm not playing that game, and neither are my friends at Thorne. I've been taking Thorne supplements for more than a decade.

• 52:33Dr. John Delony?

  They're pure, they're clean, and I trust Thorne supplements enough to give them to my family, including my kids. Whether you're a serious athlete, or a mom on the go, or a dad trying to show up at work and for his family after a long day at work, you deserve the absolute best, and that is Thorne. Thirty-five percent of Thorne's employees work in quality control, and they reject up to 15% of their raw materials because good enough isn't good enough for Thorne. It has to be world-class. And it's why professional athletes, Olympic teams, and 60,000 doctors-plus trust Thorne, and it's why I have been trusting them, too. Stop guessing what's going into your body. Take what it needs, and nothing it doesn't.

• 53:17Dr. John Delony?

  Go to thorne.com/you/daloney to get 25% off your order when you create an account. That's T-H-O-R-N-E.com/theletteru/daloney. All right, something cool happened. What is it, Kelly?

• 53:36Speaker 02

  All right, so we just got this letter yesterday, and I wanted to read it. This is from Justin. He called in about two years ago. He was training to be a pilot and had an accident, some things had happened, and was no longer going to be able to do that as a career. And he was completely unmoored and didn't know how to move forward when that was all he wanted to do.

• 53:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Okay. "I wanted to send an email to express my gratitude and appreciation for your show and how much I've taken from it, as well as to give an update since I had called into the show a little under two years ago. I called in to ask Dr. Deloney how to move forward after losing my dream career of aviation - I'm sorry, aviation - due to medical and mental health-related reasons." Therapy, though it was something I had avoided being in aviation, ended up helping me move through the identity crisis and some trauma-related effects. Even after significant progress, I was still wondering what the future held, but I was impacted by the effect counseling had on me and had begun pursuing it as a career. Watching your show, I found myself drawn to crisis response, and now this is my long-term

• 54:43Speaker 02

  goal in this field, as well as being an advocate for mental health and aviation. Fast forward to now, I just wrapped up my master's degree in counseling psychology

• 54:52Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah dude!

• 54:53Speaker 02

  And will begin working as an associate doing critical incident stress management.

• 54:57Dr. John Delony?

  CISM, booyah!

• 54:58Speaker 02

  A skill I've wanted to learn since I first heard about it. I certainly have been given this last season to grow in empathy and discernment and to witness firsthand how deep the trenches can be, but also how many tools there are to acclimate and build something new, as you've always said. But the most important and most prominent theme that I've seen is that of redemption. After I lost aviation, I kept hearing the phrase, "Everything happens for a reason." Not that I don't believe this, but that phrase put a huge amount of stress on every decision that came next. What if I choose this new job, but the reason I lost flying was so that I could do this other thing, and I screw it all up? Over time, I was overwhelmed with every decision because I didn't want to mess up, quote-unquote, "the new plan."

• 55:40Speaker 02

  In time, I found that I had to rest in that and to trust that even in the uncertainty, there is redemption, even if you are unsure. To me, more digestible than "everything happens for a reason" is the idea that redemption lies in everything. Use discernment, of course, but redemption remains steadfast in whatever path you choose, win, lose, or draw. Rock on, Justin. P.S. Gibson over Fender, all day long.

• 56:05Dr. John Delony?

  All day! This guy's awesome. Booyah, dude, that's fantastic. Dude, I remember my old critical incident stress management courses, man, and those were wild. And for those of you who don't know, that's when people show up when a plane has crashed in a local area, or there's a big bus wreck, or there's a shooting, and you're responding not only to the people on the ground who are in the middle of that incident, but also you're responding to the first responders who are responding to that incident. And so, yeah, those people who are trained in CISM, who run into those situations, and then even run into the second ring of those situations, man, amazing, amazing, amazing. And...

• 56:48Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want to open a theological can of worms, but I'll never forget the guy when I was trying, I was younger and I was wrestling with, what should I do about this and this? I've been praying for this direction. And this may not be everyone's theology, but the guy said, has it ever occurred to you, God doesn't care what you do for your little American job. He cares who you are, wherever you happen to find yourself. And by the way, if you want your attention, he's gonna get it. And for whatever reason, that just freed me from this. We talk about calling, and this is, I'm inside baseball for faith communities. So if that's not you, you can hang up. You can go onto like Huberman's podcast, wherever you listen to next. This, uh, we talk about calling as though

• 57:31Dr. John Delony?

  like God hid it from us. Like it's an Easter egg. Like you gotta find it. I gotta find it. And it's like, nope, not over there. And it's like, ooh, you're using drugs now. Like not over there. That's not how it works. It's madness. It's not like this Easter egg, like it's hidden. So I'm like, you gotta find your calling, you gotta find your passion. Most of us are passionate about the things we do that we're good at. And most of us get good at stuff with the things that we practice. And almost all of us practice things that somebody made us at some point, and it was uncomfortable. And I don't know. Like that phrase, like, has it occurred to you? He doesn't really care. Like there's hungry people. Just go do your job and be a great

• 58:16Dr. John Delony?

  human being while you're doing it. And I don't know, that just freed me. I don't know if that's in the Bible or not, but it felt right. I tell you that, Kelly, to tell you, I'm glad you're a part of this show. And if you felt called to do it, God bless you.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Well, Dave did call me to do it.

• 58:39Dr. John Delony?

  Well, you made that weird. So I hope that was, that was good. Bye.