#207: No Place to Hide - 18th Field Artillery Brigade Colonel Andy Hercik & Command Sergeant Major George Cabrera

Before ground forces can advance, the battlefield has to be shaped. Air defenses have to come down. Enemy weapons have to be destroyed. And the adversaries' will to combat America has to be lessened. This is the job of field artillery; a branch of the US Army where speed, distance, precision, and results determine who controls the battlefield before ground forces ever make contact. From Fort Bragg, NC, the 18th Field Artillery Brigade https://home.army.mil/bragg/units-tenants/xviii-airborne-co/18th-field-artillery-brigade leads the Army’s rapidly deployable artillery units. As the largest HIMARS brigade, its soldiers must be prepared to deploy anywhere in the world within 10 days of notification and deliver long-range precision fires in support of the XVIII Airborne Corps https://home.army.mil/bragg/units-tenants/xviii-airborne-co, its divisions, and Special Operations Forces. Fran Racioppi https://www.linkedin.com/in/francisracioppijr/ sat down with the command team of Colonel Andy Hercik and Command Sergeant Major George Cabrera, to talk about what it takes to maintain readiness as the battlefield rapidly changes. After two decades of counterinsurgency, field artillery is now leading in large-scale combat operations where kilometers matter, ammunition and logistics can determine operational reach, and the ability to shoot, move, communicate, and survive has become unforgiving. Drones have made the battlefield increasingly transparent. A cell phone can expose a position. A lingering electromagnetic signature can make a HIMARS crew a target. The answer isn't abandoning the fundamentals. It's executing them better, while using lessons from today's conflicts to change how soldiers train and how the Army develops the capabilities required for tomorrow. We also discuss what true integration between conventional forces and Special Operations looks like, why the targeting process has to bring every capability together from the beginning, and the responsibility of NCOs and officers to build a formation that doesn't simply comply with standards, but understands why those standards keep soldiers alive and make them lethal. When the call comes, there won't be time to prepare. 18th Field Artillery Brigade has to be ready. Highlights 00:00 Introduction01:12 Mission of the 18th Field Artillery Brigade04:16 NCO Leadership and Force Readiness05:38 Subordinate Units and Capabilities09:55 Refocusing on Core Field Artillery Basics13:49 Passing Down Lessons Learned14:40 Interoperability and Special Operations Forces Integration22:31 What Separates the 18th FA Brigade24:58 Joint Force Integration26:15 Modernization, Innovation, and Ammunition Investment30:15 Drone Warfare and Signature Management36:02 Culture of Commitment and the Warrior Mindset41:15 Driving Decision-Making and Warfighting Readiness Quotes “We have to be ready to deploy, fight, and win within 10 days of notification.”“We are the Army’s largest HIMARS brigade with 54 HIMARS launchers.”“We’re going to first look to strip away adversary air defense and then kill what’s killing us.”“It’s much more effective to destroy a launcher than to try to intercept an incoming missile.”“Divisions are maneuvering in order to fire.”“We now have to be prepared to operate in a completely transparent battlefield.”“What we’re trying to do is avoid being at this point on the Earth where the enemy missile hits when it hits.”“Shoot, move, communicate, clean up our electromagnetic spectrum.”“Making sure soldiers understand the visibility of their signature.”“Be more survivable, which then lets us be more lethal, because we’re able to retain more combat power.” Follow the Jedburgh Podcast https://www.instagram.com/jedburghpodcast/ and the Green Beret Foundation https://www.instagram.com/greenberetfoundation/ on social media. Listen on your favorite podcast platform https://pod.link/1558608802, read on our website https://greenberetfoundation.org/the-jedburgh-podcast/, and watch the full video version on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@jedburghpodcast as we show why America must continue to lead from the front, no matter the challenge. The Jedburgh Podcast is brought to you by OneBrief https://www.onebrief.com/; enabling military leaders to make innovative, informed and deliberate decisions faster than ever before. Superhuman command wins wars.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Fran Racioppi?

  The four ground forces can advance. The battlefield has to be shaped. Air defenses have to come down. Enemy weapons have to be destroyed. And the adversary's will to combat America has to be lessened. This is the job of field artillery. A branch of the US Army where speed, distance, precision, and results determine who controls the battlefield before ground forces ever make contact. From Fort Bragg, North Carolina, 18th Field Artillery Brigade leads the Army's rapidly deployable artillery units. As the largest HIMARS brigade, its soldiers must be prepared to deploy anywhere in the world within 10 days of notification and deliver long-range precision fires in support of 18th Airborne Corps, its divisions, and Special Operations Forces.

• 0:44Fran Racioppi?

  I sat down with the command team of 18th FA Colonel Andy Hercik and Command Sergeant Major George Cabrera to talk about what it takes to maintain readiness as the battlefield rapidly changes. After two decades of counterinsurgency, field artillery is now leading in large-scale combat operations where kilometers matter. Ammunition and logistics can determine operational reach, and the ability to shoot, move, communicate, and survive has become unforgiving. Drones have made the battlefield increasingly transparent. A cellphone can expose a position. A lingering electromagnetic signature can make a HIMARS crew a target. The answer isn't abandoning the fundamentals. It's executing the better while using lessons from today's conflict to change how soldiers

• 1:27Fran Racioppi?

  train and how the Army develops the capabilities required for tomorrow. We also discuss what true integration between conventional forces and special operations looks like, why the targeting process has to bring every capability together from the beginning, and the responsibility of NCOs and officers to build a formation that doesn't simply comply with standards, but understands why those standards keep soldiers alive and make them lethal. Because when the call comes, there won't be time to prepare. 18th Field Artillery Brigade has to be ready. The Jedberg Podcast is brought to you by Wondery, enabling military leaders to make innovative, informed, and deliberate decisions faster than ever before. Superhuman command wins wars. Follow the Jedberg Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on social media.

• 2:11Fran Racioppi?

  Listen on your favorite podcast platform, read on our website, and watch the full video version on YouTube as we show you why America must continue to lead from the front no matter the challenge. Colonel Hersick, Sergeant Major Cabrera, welcome to the Jedberg Podcast.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Thanks for having us, friend.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  Glad to be here.

• 2:29Fran Racioppi?

  We're here. You've welcomed us into Fort Bragg, North Carolina. We're at the headquarters of your command 18th Field Artillery Brigade, part of the 18th Airborne Corps. And you have today, and I would say always, field artillery has been a critical component of America's ability to project power and combat force. But today, what we've seen over the last couple of months has really put our field artillery capabilities front and center in modern warfare. The mission of this brigade is to plan, synchronize, and employ long-range precision strike fires and counterfires in support of the 18th Airborne Corps, its subordinate divisions, and the

• 3:11Fran Racioppi?

  Special Operations Forces as required, readily available, ready to go, on a very short string at a moment's notice. What does the mission of this brigade mean to you?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  You kind of already laid it out, friend. The mission of this brigade is to generate the maximum amount of warfighting readiness relative to our resourcing. We have to be ready to deploy, fight, and win within 10 days of notification. We have the HIMARS immediate response force requirement for the United States Army and for the 18th Airborne Corps. That is one of our orienting principles is our world can change on a dime when the call comes in. So in order to be ready for that, we have to constantly ensure that our training, our maintenance, and our systems and processes are to the level that allows us to rapidly

• 4:08Speaker 01

  transition from peace to war. What our mission means is that we have to be ready. And we only get ready through training and maintenance, right? Our Army exists to fight and win our nation's wars. When we're not at war, we exist to prepare to win the first plane of the next conflict. And that's exactly what we do here in the 18th FA Brigade with the additional requirement of being able to be anywhere in the world within 10 days of notification to support either the 18th Airborne Corps or a combatant commander who requests the capability. And to do that requires significant attention to our warfighting readiness that we have

• 4:50Speaker 01

  to continually build and maintain across training, maintenance, personnel, and equipment on hand.

• 5:00Fran Racioppi?

  Sergeant Major, when you look at the force, right? And readiness and the capability to be ready to go, as the Colonel said, anywhere in the world for really any mission. These geographic regions are different. The requirements are different. The adversaries are different. But your brigade, like all organizations within the Army, are led by the NCOs. And when you look at the NCO Corps across the brigade and you talk to them about force readiness, in a time post GWOT where become complacent at times.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 5:35Fran Racioppi?

  What's your message to them and how are you getting them to understand the critical piece that they play in their nation's?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Well, one of the things as an NCO, non-commissioned officer, the first thing we need to make sure is making sure our families, you know, take care of. And then with that is making sure, like I always tell my NCOs, non-commissioned officers, make sure we teach, coach, and mentor our individual soldiers, making sure they're proficient in their job, make sure they know the fundamentals, the basics of how to shoot a weapon, how to drive, you know, et cetera, certain other stuff, right? Making sure we have an idea of what we talk about as a non-commissioned officer, making sure they are tactically proficient in their jobs.

• 6:18Fran Racioppi?

  The capabilities of the brigade are both offensive and defensive when we look at our ability to project power. So can you talk for a second about the various subordinate units and some of the capabilities that they bring to the fight?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Currently, we are the Army's largest HIMARS brigade with 54 HIMARS launchers. So we have two firing battalions, 327 Steel Rain, currently deployed in support of Operation Epic Fury, and 321st Field Artillery, the Thunderbolts. Those are our two HIMARS battalions. They are configured in a what we call a three-by-nine configuration. So three batteries of nine launchers each. Pretty simple. But their capability is the ability to deliver precision strike munitions from 70 to 500 kilometers in support of, again, the 18th Airborne Corps, subordinate divisions, or

• 7:17Speaker 01

  whichever combat commander we find ourselves working for at the time. Additionally, we have the 188th Brigade Support Battalion, which enables the brigade to receive additional attachments, sustainment attachments, in order to sustain operations. I often tell the brigade that, yes, we're a field artillery brigade, but we're more like a sustainment brigade that does artillery stuff. So I mentioned we have 54 HIMARS launchers. We also have 126 ammunition trucks and 126 ammunition trailers. Each launch pod container for a HIMARS weapon system weighs 5,000 pounds.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  So when we talk about being able to mass fires at the scope and scale and speed required for large-scale combat operations, we must be able to ensure that we have the right weapon to target match at the right place at the right time. And that is a task all in and of itself to ensure that we have the right ammunition where it needs to be, when it needs to be there. So that's actually a huge capability for the brigade is our ability to move our own ammunition. And then finally, you have the brigade headquarters here, which 18th FA Brigade serves as the force field artillery headquarters for 18th Airborne Corps.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  What that means is we are principally responsible to provide command and control for any and all attached to reinforcing artillery to the Corps.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  We are responsible ultimately to provide recommendations on how field artillery organizes for combat, positioning guidance down through the division level for, again, core level fires assets and division level fires assets. So between those four kind of distinct units, that's the capability of the brigade. In terms of defensive fires, we do not have any purely defensive capabilities. But as we look at offensive and defensive fires, which is kind of a term of art that we hear a lot, I would submit that to a certain degree, offensive and defensive fires are often two sides of the same coin.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  So a field artillery brigade, when we are supporting 18th Airborne Corps, the things that we are going to look to do first in any conflict is we're going to first look to strip away adversary air defense and then kill what's killing us. So if you look offensively, they're defensive fires because we are looking to destroy their long-range fire systems. And it's much more effective to destroy a launcher than to try to intercept a incoming missile.

• 10:13Fran Racioppi?

  How have you, in the post GWAT period of time, gotten the formation, and really, I mean, I would say almost the branch, back to the basics? Because what we saw in so much of Iraq and Afghanistan was a repurposing of field artillery. And so you had some units, I mean, I know from, speak from my experience in Iraq of multiple tours, you saw field artillery units deployed and some of them were shooting big guns in support of infantry forces and others were outdoing combat patrols. So how have you refocused everyone to say, look, mission set is almost back to what

• 10:57Fran Racioppi?

  our core is in long-range precision fires at the front edge of battle? And we need everybody to put away their infantry skills for a little bit and get back to what we're doing?

• 11:09Speaker 01

  During my three tours in Iraq, I was employed as infantry in some capacity during all three of those. So same experience. I think we do have the advantage of, we have a little bit of time and space separation from those GWAT years where, you know, the artillery was employed as route reconnaissance, infantry, sustainment. Only some of the less young folks like Sergeant Major and I are kind of the, not the last, but we don't have as high of a hill to climb, so to speak, in terms of reorienting on our core mission. That stated, though, there are plenty of bad habits that could be built over time, but it's different.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  You know, supporting a contingency or the competition phase is vastly different than large-scale combat operations. In order to refocus the organization, the soldiers within it, really, I see a couple different, I won't call them lines of effort, but a couple different venues. The first is, the Army develops a mission essential task list for every unit type, right? Those three to seven things that every unit must be able to do. And so when we talk about orienting principles, that's what we orient on. What has the Army told us that this brigade must have the ability to do to fight and win? So we focus on that.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  The next is being able to describe the conditions that we expect to encounter in large-scale combat operations. The lethality, the distance, the ambiguity, right? Those things that we have not seen at large scale over the last 20 years. And then finally, after describing it through professional development, to the best of our ability, we implement and replicate those conditions during our collective training events. So when we have a battery qualification or a battalion level qualification here on Fort Bragg, North Carolina, we represent being contested in the air domain with UAS and

• 13:20Speaker 01

  the space domain via GPS jamming, additional capabilities, of course, in the land domain with irregular forces, and even in the cyber domain with the ability to, nope, I'm gonna stop right there. Stop at the shot, you can't talk about. But ultimately, through sets and reps of essentially forcing ourselves to train against a dynamic hybrid threat, force ourselves to reorient on the blocking and tackling that's required to be able to shoot, move, communicate, and sustain ourselves over long duration.

• 14:04Fran Racioppi?

  Sergeant Major, how are you passing the knowledge? How are you using the lessons learned over GWAT and Iraq and Afghanistan, counterinsurgency and counterterrorism to train that next generation?

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Absolutely. It's from experience, using our manuals, and then with that, going from table sixes to eighteens. It starts with our sections, make sure they get their certification knocked out, and after that, their platoons certifications, and then after that, it goes to batteries certifications, and then battalions, and then overall, table eighteens at the brigade level, we certify, we have leaders, have OCs, and reviewing and making sure, with the checklist, making sure they're doing the right thing and following the rules and regulations.

• 14:46Fran Racioppi?

  So enforcing the standard?

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Enforcing the standard, exactly.

• 14:50Fran Racioppi?

  So, yeah, that's where it all starts. When you look at the integration, there's two different terms. And so I had the chance, last time we were here at Fort Bragg not too long ago, we had an opportunity to sit down with General Anderson, your boss, General Anderson, the commander of 18th Airborne Corps. And he spoke a lot about interoperability and integration of the conventional force with special operations forces, and made the distinction that in interoperability, can we talk to each other? You know, if I'm an ODA commander, do I have someone on the other line if I need to call for fire? But integration, can we work together? You know, can we co-locate on the battlefield?

• 15:34Fran Racioppi?

  Do we have the resources to use each other's stuff and truly operate as one element in the broader support of the joint force? And when we look at large-scale combat operations and we start to define, as you said, what does a day of large-scale combat operations truly look like? And we are getting a glimpse of that over the last couple of months when we've, I think, the Navy probably more than anybody else with their proximity and some of the defensive stuff that they've had to do to protect those carrier groups is probably seeing it, you know, front and center more than anything.

• 16:12Fran Racioppi?

  But how do you see, from your perspective, what is your ability from the 18th Field Artillery Brigade to support special operations forces in large-scale combat operations?

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, we talked earlier about the brigade headquarters serves as a force field artillery headquarters for 18th Airborne Corps. Well, what I did mention is that I'm also the core fire support coordinator. So I have distinct honor of simultaneously being a commander and a staff officer, which is super fun, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

• 16:48Fran Racioppi?

  Do you get to pick when you're one or the other?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  I'm the fire support coordinator, and then that's why I have outstanding command sergeant major, outstanding battalion commanders, and outstanding field grades. But as I explained to General Anderson, you know, when we discussed this early on, if we don't get the targeting process right, then there's nothing that this brigade's going to do to achieve success, right? The integrating process of targeting at the core level is where we integrate our special operations forces. So, case in point, during a recent war fighter, the Special Operations Task Force, or SOTF,

• 17:29Speaker 01

  had their field artillery personnel and really good liaison officers embedded in the core headquarters. And they participated in every targeting meeting, every target decision board, and they were directly tied in with the fire staff and then with my staff in the force field artillery headquarters. So it was beyond the, can I call for fire? Yes, we established a quick fire net. If they needed fires from rocket artillery, sure, we could support that. That's the checkers. The chess was...

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Actually integrating them into the targeting process where the SODIF is able to A nominate targets, or B serve as observers for other targets that are important to the core commander, or C even actually create some of the effects we were looking for through their either unilateral or partnered force actions. But if we don't integrate at the start, then we're not going to be able to do it on the fly. And being part of that process, and really, it all boils down to we're just being good teammates because we all have the same ultimate objective. It's not necessarily a question of who's in charge,

• 18:48Speaker 01

  who works, none of that matters. At the end of the day, winning is all that matters. And having great teammates that are integrated from the start and able to really describe their unique capabilities to us, we could describe our unique capabilities to them, and develop a common plan for how we're going to shape the battlefield, not just two separate plans that happen to coincide at certain points in time.

• 19:14Fran Racioppi?

  I think that's a really good way to put having one common plan because you didn't see that for a long time, right? You know, too long. I'm a huge fan of the 155s out of the self-propelled howitzers back from my infantry days. Number one, one, one was right behind me, my chew in Iraq, and when I was in fourth ID. And so I was able to be, get that blast every night right over my roof. But more importantly, I used to call for fire all the time as an infantry platoon leader, of course, in 2005 in Iraq. And I think that the ability to then take that and we would start planning for it. You know, we would say, I think the first time we called for fire was like one of those

• 19:59Fran Racioppi?

  times out of Ranger School where we're like, we're in a firefight. And I'm like, what do we do? And I'm like, wait a minute, I can call for fire. And having like that epiphany that I could get someone on. And then I remember after that, actually sitting down and then planning for it and saying, all right, you know, what resources do we have available? And how do we integrate, you know, even things like illumination onto target objectives? And then what do we have in contingency plans if we do need to call for fire? So I think that being able to be on the forward edge of that, a strategic operational level versus that tactical ODA or platoon level is where you really begin to see effects of that integration.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  Oh, that's why you have those firing servers, the experts beside the infantry or special forces, right? They tell you this is the round or turning rounds, you go five, 505 or 555 or lone rounds, they'll give you the expertise so you can make a decision right there on what rounds to shoot.

• 20:54Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. And you spent time in the seventh special forces group as the FSO there?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Yes, I spent a couple of years as the FSO for third battalion, seventh group. Great opportunity for me to learn more about the special forces specifically, but special operations generally. And of course, you know, leading into that, I'd had the experience that you kind of mentioned of, hey, bumping into an ODA in Iraq, and we'd, you know, work together just off the cuff. But being able to better understand the capabilities, the mission sets of special operations forces was really helpful to me to be able to better assist with the integration now, just understanding what the capability can do if you're willing

• 21:42Speaker 01

  to let it is important. And it's not some kind of mysterious, secret society that only shows up at the wrong time. No, it's, hey, special operations forces are vital part of the joint force in the army. And we all have the same mission at the end of the day.

• 22:01Fran Racioppi?

  What separates the 18th FAB Brigade from like what I had experienced supporting the fourth infantry division? Because you had tied that into, we had discussed the support to 18th Airborne Corps in a rapidly deployable capability. So what separates that ability from like, you know, what supports third ID or fourth ID? When faced with a challenge, Green Berets adapt, overcome, and keep moving forward. Now's your chance to stand with them. Join the 1952 Society with a monthly gift of just $19.52 to provide critical medical devices for wounded, ill, and injured Green Berets. Your support fuels their recovery, helping them return to duty or continue serving their

• 22:46Fran Racioppi?

  communities. A Green Beret's mission never stops. Neither should our support. Join the 1952 Society today and stand with those who stand for us.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So just kind of broadly on artillery to probably set the stage. So at the, at the tactical level, right? We're talking infantry brigades. In an infantry brigade, you have, have cannons. Cannons are absolutely necessary and still valid. Cannons shape terrain to enable the infantry or the armor to maneuver. So they're firing in order to maneuver. As we get to the division and then to the core level, as we get from the high tactical to the operational level, you need the range of rocket systems, right? To be able to reach the division and core deep area. But at that stage, I would submit

• 23:41Speaker 01

  that we transition from firing to maneuver, which is what brigades are doing. Divisions are maneuvering brigades in order to gain space. So they're maneuvering in order to fire. So they're moving the line of contact forward to bring the rocket artillery so that we can continue to shape deeper targets within the, than the enemy's rear area. The difference between a field artillery brigade and a cannon battalion or a division artillery supporting a division is it's the weapon system, right? And of course, the mission set. We are pure high mobility artillery rocket system, again, meant for that 70 to

• 24:24Speaker 01

  500 kilometer range. And the brigade combat teams, they have a battalion of cannons that allow them to fire to maneuver so that they can maneuver so that we can fire deeper into the enemy's rear area.

• 24:38Fran Racioppi?

  And then how do you integrate with like air power out of, out of the joint force? And, and also with like naval gunfire?

• 24:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that also goes back to the integrating process of the targeting process. So with either a tactical air control party or a air support operations center at the core level, they're in the targeting process. As a matter of fact, our, our targeting process is largely oriented on being the entry point for those joint effects, right? So we orient on, you know, the joint targeting process. So we're, we ensure that we are making requests for support in the right manner and the right timeframe in order to be able to actually realize fixed wing naval gunfire support if necessary, or other capabilities that

• 25:31Speaker 01

  the joint force can provide. So it all starts with that integrating process of targeting. And again, having one plan instead of multiple plans that just happen to coincide.

• 25:42Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah. So the army is putting a lot of focus on the, I won't call it modernization. I think we probably need to get away from that, that term, because if we're not modernized right now, we're going to have a slew of other issues. But I would say they're putting a lot of money into various initiatives to increase the capability of the field artillery units across the army, from the tactical level up through the operational level. And some of their top initiatives have been in the rocket artillery range with precision strike missiles and initiatives to bring, bring that up to 1,000 kilometers from 500 kilometers in the High Mars. Lot more money going into High Mars expansion and capability,

• 26:28Fran Racioppi?

  and then upgrades to the Paladin track to howitzer capability. And then also this investment of 625 million to build a new ammunition complex to build 155 projectiles in Iowa, and then with support in Arkansas and Kansas. And so there's a lot of focus from the army saying, hey, we need these capabilities. As you look at, at your mission, what you're required to support, how are you taking those near real time lessons learned from the various conflict zones of the world, and then incorporating that into the rapid acquisition phase of getting to the next level?

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Yes. It's a great question. We have here at Fort Bragg, we have the luxury of having one of the best laboratories for that. And it's called the, the training area. So as we pay attention, right? We learn from the current conflict. So we happen to have 327 Ford and CENTCOM right now, our partners in a 41st Field Artillery Brigade in Germany. Of course, they pay very close attention to the Russia-Ukraine conflict. And then other sources of understanding what are kind of the current threat environments? What are some of the tactics, techniques, and procedures that are being used forward? We are then able to incorporate those tactics, techniques, and procedures, or threats here at Fort Bragg,

• 27:57Speaker 01

  when we are performing collective training events. That enables us to identify where we may or may not have a material gap, right? Or we could innovate, which I break apart modernization and innovation is innovating is we're going to change what we're doing within our own resources to just do it better. And so how do we innovate with different tactics, techniques, procedures? You know, how do we reorganize to, to face this current problem center threat? As we identify potential material gaps, we have a couple of avenues. We have the, the joint integration outpost, which I think you're going to talk to Tom Monahan here in a, in a couple of weeks.

• 28:37Fran Racioppi?

  Yeah, next week.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  So he's a great entry point to the acquisition world. But just as, as leaders in the field artillery, the Command Sergeant Major and I, we have a good running dialogue with the command of the field artillery out at Fort Sill. And then of course, other elements across the enterprise where we're able to provide some feedback. Because I will say, the army enterprise from the Pentagon, you know, all the way out through the acquisition field is they're always interested in getting warfighter feedback. And so we provide it as much as we possibly can.

• 29:15Fran Racioppi?

  How's drone warfare affecting field artillery writ large in your ability to project combat power at distance?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'll start on the survivability side first, right? So drone warfare, along with capabilities in other domains, the space domain and the electromagnetic spectrum, we now have to be prepared to operate in a completely transparent battlefield, right? The ability to just hide is no longer good enough. So what the, uh, what drone warfare has done or caused us to change is to reexamine again those, those TTPs, right? How do we avoid detection? But avoiding detection is only part of it. Really, at the end of the day, what we're trying to do is avoid being at this point

• 30:07Speaker 01

  on the earth where the enemy missile hits, when it hits, right? We don't want to be there. So we've had some great opportunities to train that here on Fort Bragg and kind of adjust how we employ. And broadly, it's increasing dispersion, shortening the interval between, you know, being in a hide location for a certain amount of time, we can, we know it's time to move. What it forces us to do broadly and how it changes how we deliver is we just have to execute the fundamentals better is really what it comes down to, right? Shoot, move, communicate, clean up our electromagnetic spectrum, really reduce all

• 30:49Speaker 01

  of the unnecessary emissions that we'd grown accustomed to when we weren't, weren't facing that threat. So again, as CSM mentioned earlier, right? Back to the basics, blocking and tackling fundamentals and discipline. What it also does on the offensive side is I believe the army is considering or pursuing some low cost, one-way attack UAS. And at the risk of assuming that there's a one size fits all solution for anything, I think there's a place in the right mixture of our high-end, long-range exquisite munitions

• 31:31Speaker 01

  that can do only what a, what a prism can do and a, a relatively inexpensive one-way attack UAS. And as long as we have the right mix to be able to employ the right weapon at the right time, based on the threat, or even to use them in conjunction with each other, that's where we'll really get the best bang for our buck, so to speak. And then of course, on the offensive side, our own promulgation of drones allows us to be able to locate and, and strike targets at a, at a much, much higher rate.

• 32:08Speaker 02

  One of the things is making sure soldiers understand, making sure they understand the visibility of their signature, right? So what we did one time when we did our certification and then we did our AAR action review was we showed them a slide of their signature, making sure they don't have cell phones, making sure they understand that. Because cell phones, if you have a, a cell phone on, that's a signature right there. And making sure they understand that. So some of the soldiers understand now, making sure whenever we leave the gate, they turn their cell phones off or put it away or put it somewhere else and understand they, making sure they have a low signature, making sure we camouflage everything, making sure they

• 32:52Speaker 02

  face paint, small little things like that, basic stuff, fundamentals, they will make sure they understand.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, to Sergeant Major's point, it's powerful to actually be able to take the imagery from a drone that looked at your HIMARS or your platoon operations center and found you and then show what that looked like. That is powerful to a soldier of like, okay, now I understand what we're talking about. We're spanning the strategic level where we talk about drone warfare and how it's changing the, uh, the character, but not the nature of warfare is mildly interesting if I'm, if I'm a crew member in a HIMARS. But when I can see, oh, that's actually what I look like to an enemy threat system, now I can apply changes to do it better.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  And over the last three collective training exercises, we have seen a marked improvement of our crews and our command posts to be able to actually reduce their signature across multiple domains and, and be more survivable, which then lets us be more lethal because we're able to retain more combat power.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  It's just using our tools, what we have at the brigade level, especially RS2, making sure they use our drones, making sure they fly around, our AOs, and making sure they take a picture of those HIMARS and making sure, okay, this is what you saw, this is what you need to do better to make sure you camouflage certain, uh, medical vehicles.

• 34:19Fran Racioppi?

  That's probably a little bit scary too, when you realize like, hey, this is what I look like to as an enemy target.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 34:24Fran Racioppi?

  Sure. Cause that's effectively what you are. I've been able to sit down with the Sergeant Major of the Army, Mike Wymer, a couple of various times to talk about several different initiatives. And one of the things that he reiterates to me on a regular basis is this culture mindset of compliance to commitment. When you come in the army, you hold the bag over your head because the drill sergeant, it tells you to hold the bag over your head. You shave because the drill sergeant tells you to shave and you do these number of things regularly because someone told you to do it. And as you progress through your career, you begin to realize, well, wait, I do these things because that's the right thing to do. That makes me better.

• 35:08Fran Racioppi?

  That makes me, to his second point, a warrior. And if warfighting is what we're doing as an army and that's our profession, well then it requires warriors and a warrior mindset, a warrior culture to effectively warfight at the level that we need for present and future conflict. Sergeant Major, as you look across the formation and we see a, a young generation of folks coming in who are tied to those cell phones, who have a different idea, we showed up at 5:00 AM because they told us to show up at 5:00 AM. And the young generation now will show up at 5:00 AM and they ask you why?

• 35:53Fran Racioppi?

  And they had everything that we got told when we were coming up, you know, as young NCOs and soldiers and officers, we did it that way because the sergeant told us to do it that way, or the commander told us to do it that way. And now I can pull out my phone and I can fact check you to make sure you actually know how to load that weapon system the right way. How are you instilling within the ranks, this mindset of compliance to commitment and this warrior ethos that we've talked about for decades to prepare this formation for what's to come?

• 36:32Speaker 02

  Well, one of the things, leader presence, making sure you're there. It doesn't matter if you're a Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, or Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel, you have to be there. Me and the boss, we're always in PT. That's the start in the morning. We're always in the motor pool. We'll go walk around the motor pool, making sure soldiers doing the right thing. It's just presence. And then with that, empowering our leaders, right? Normally what I do is quarterly, I sit down with my soldiers, not commissary officers and officers, and talk to them, empowering them, hey, this is what you need to do. This is what I'm seeing. Or if they have any feedback to let me know so we could do it. I always tell my leaders, if you talk bad about this organization, what are you doing to help me fix this organization?

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Empowering those individual soldiers to make sure they understand so they could be part of the team and have a commitment culture with that.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  In your question, you brought up a great point, right? You mentioned the soldier is going to show up at five o'clock and wants to know why. My view is as leaders, we owe them that. We have to push the why behind the what down to the lowest level possible. It's no longer okay to just say, because I said so. That's, I don't know if that was ever a effective leadership tactic. I mean, it worked on me, but you know, I may not be that smart.

• 37:48Fran Racioppi?

  Well, we used to sit in the hallway until they told us we could go home.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Sure. Right? Again, it, maybe I'm just easy to, maybe I'm not that smart and easy to, to control. But what I often push with our NCOs and our officers, how are you delivering the context to your formation? Why are we doing the things that we're doing, right? We're doing the things that we're doing to make us more lethal, more survivable, right? To be able to win that first fight in the next conflict. And showing to the best of our ability, what that looks like during our collective training events where, I mean, our brigade intelligence officer or the intelligence section, really, they do a pretty good job of replicating enemy threats out here on Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  And so our soldiers know that when you get out for what we call a table 15, which is a battery live fire qualification, or a table 18, a battalion live fire qualification, that it's going to be about 10 days of really hard training and somebody's going to be chasing you through some domain, maybe multiple domains at the same time. And so we can link the context or the purpose behind, why are we doing PT? Well, do you remember on day six, when you felt really tired? It's because maybe weren't physically fit enough, just as an example. But being able to draw that context out from the, from the flash to bang, so to speak, is really important on, in building that culture.

• 39:14Fran Racioppi?

  What's your message to the force? So young officers who come in, soldiers who come into the organization, we were joking earlier about sending folks to the promotion boards, you know, and they're sitting there in front of the promotion board, looking to take that next level. As the command team, what are you telling them on a daily basis?

• 39:37Speaker 01

  We've already kind of talked about it a little bit, Fran, but it's, our focus is on warfighting readiness. We take care of our people by making them ready for combat. Our focus, some would say your focus is a superpower in any organization. And we can focus on those things that are going to make us most ready, right? That allows us to place the maximum amount of our resources towards that goal. So yeah, it's how do we, remember I talked about the mission essential task list, the three to seven things that that unit has to do? How do we get really good at doing these things so that when the call comes in to

• 40:20Speaker 01

  deploy on that, on that 10-day string that we talked about, when we hit the ground, we're ready to, to perform the mission, but we're also able to survive in a lethal environment? That's what we're focused on. That's what we're oriented on. And that is what drives our decision-making process within the brigade.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Basic fundamentals, make sure they're technically proficient in their job, and then just have fun, enjoy. I've been in Army for 25 years and I love it. Every day is different and you learn something different every day. And that's what you need to understand. Every day is different and learn something different every day with your leaders and not commissioned officers and officers.

• 41:02Fran Racioppi?

  Well, with a lot of opportunities on this show to talk about different units and different organizations within the Army, within the military. And I think that when we look at the capabilities that you're bringing, the investment that the Army is making in field artillery writ large and the focus that this capability and the soldiers, the NCOs, the officers in this formation are going to play in our current and next conflict. I think this is an organization that's going to be front and center for American defense and American rapid deployable capability within the 18th Airborne Corps for a long time. And so I appreciate you guys taking some time out of your day to sit with me and I

• 41:44Fran Racioppi?

  got a lot of things to do, tell this story and really highlight the importance of this organization and the critical effect that it has on the battlefield. So, thank you.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  I appreciate you taking some time to talk with us, Fran.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

• 42:00Fran Racioppi?

  Awesome.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  American Jedbergs went on to form the foundation of the United States Special Forces and the Special Activities Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Thanks for listening to the Jedburgh Podcast, an official program of the Green Beret Foundation. I'm your creator and host, Fran Richopkin. Join us next week for a new episode on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Check us out on YouTube for full episodes, highlights, and other long and short form content. If you like what you heard, give us a like and leave a review. Follow the Jedburgh Podcast and the Green Beret Foundation on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, X or Threads. Send your comments and inquiries to [email protected]. As former members of Special Operations Forces, the Jedburgh Media Channel and the Green Beret Foundation remain committed to supporting all generations of US Army Special Forces and their families.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Thanks for joining us on this episode. How you prepare today determines success tomorrow.