Selects: Star Wars Holiday Spectacular

Long ago, in a galaxy not so far away, George Lucas allowed the Star Wars Holiday Special to be made. What happened on the night of November 17, 1978 can never be fully explained, but we make our best effort in our annual special edition of SYSK. May the force be with us all. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:05Josh Clark?

  Hey guys, it's that time again. Time to kick off the holidays in style with our traditional playing of our episode on the Star Wars Holiday Special. If you've never seen the actual special, I envy you and I bet the first time is the last time you watch it too. We here at S Y S K want to wish you a happy holiday season and we hope you enjoy the annual tradition of our playing of the Star Wars Holiday Special episode.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

• 1:47Josh Clark?

  Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuckers Bryant and Jerry Jerome Roland.

• 1:57Speaker 03

  Who's the Wookiee mother?

• 1:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Mala.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  That was the Wookiee wife. Oh, and mother.

• 2:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah, sure. Chewbacca's mom is not with them any longer.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07Josh Clark?

  She left.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09Josh Clark?

  She was not about to appear in that.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  She went out the window.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  I'm excited about this, I have to say.

• 2:16Josh Clark?

  Uh, we should say Happy Star Wars Day?

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, today is, um, December 17th. Um, I have my opening night tickets.

• 2:24Josh Clark?

  Do you really?

• 2:25Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:26Josh Clark?

  Wow.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  You don't?

• 2:28Josh Clark?

  I...

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Do you care? You into it?

• 2:31Josh Clark?

  Uh, yeah, I will definitely go see it in the theater, but, um, well, I won't be there opening night.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:36Josh Clark?

  I've gotten really adept at, like, ignoring spoilers, people talking about stuff, all that, like, so I can, I could conceivably see this movie a month after it comes out.

• 2:47Speaker 03

  And it's all good.

• 2:47Josh Clark?

  And still going fresh.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:49Josh Clark?

  I'm an ostrich.

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. You, you black yourself out?

• 2:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  You go dark?

• 2:55Josh Clark?

  I do. I make myself go to sleep, basically.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  You go to the dark side?

• 2:59Josh Clark?

  Uh, I've been there a while now.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  Uh, well, Happy Star Wars Day, though, I'm sure that, I think this pairs nicely with Christmas, Star Wars Day, it's all come together.

• 3:09Josh Clark?

  Yes, um, we already missed Life Day, though, so Happy belated Life Day, Chuck.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  Are they celebrating it this year?

• 3:15Josh Clark?

  November 17th.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's every three years.

• 3:19Josh Clark?

  Hmm. Arcane.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:22Josh Clark?

  Man, nice job. Okay, so it's every three years, started in 1978, let's do the math, shall we?

• 3:31Speaker 03

  Quick math break, I believe that 2014 was the last Life Day.

• 3:37Josh Clark?

  Man, we just missed it.

• 3:38Speaker 03

  And then again in 2017.

• 3:39Josh Clark?

  Okay, so 2017, we'll celebrate Life Day, we'll put on our red robes, uh, our ultra-long, straight, ironed wigs.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 3:48Josh Clark?

  And we'll celebrate Life Day, the way it was meant to be.

• 3:50Speaker 03

  And if you have no idea what we're talking about, we are talking about Life Day, which is a celebration, uh, that Wookies in the Star Wars universe have every three years.

• 4:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it's like their Christmas.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, they celebrate...

• 4:04Josh Clark?

  Or their Hanukkah, or their Kwanzaa, or their Tet.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  Supposedly, it's sort of like Earth Day, too, they celebrate the diversity of their ecosystem, uh, and also remembrance of the dead, and they also give gifts.

• 4:15Josh Clark?

  They're like the Finns, basically.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a, it's a very interesting part of the Star Wars canon.

• 4:20Josh Clark?

  It is, and it's almost entirely made up, dashed off, you could possibly say, by, um, George Lucas in the 70s.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:29Josh Clark?

  And it's the basis of what has become derided as like one of the worst things that ever happened to the Star Wars galaxy.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Well, not only that, one of the worst things ever aired on television.

• 4:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, in this galaxy.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, at first that sounds like hyperbole, like, come on, it's because it was Star Wars, we had high expectations. But it's really that bad.

• 4:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the people who say that haven't seen even a second of it.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Speaker 03

  However, I watched it, uh, when I was a kid.

• 4:59Josh Clark?

  Uh huh.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Then again, this week.

• 5:01Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:02Speaker 03

  And you watched it twice this week.

• 5:03Josh Clark?

  Yeah, I watched it last night and this morning.

• 5:06Speaker 03

  There's something about it.

• 5:07Josh Clark?

  It's mesmerizing.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  It really is. It's one of those things that you start watching it and you want to turn it off. But you want to see just how absurd it can get almost.

• 5:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and it starts absurd, it stays absurd in the middle.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:21Josh Clark?

  Gets increasingly more absurd, it gets a little less absurd, finishes super absurd.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just a train wreck in every single sense of the word, top to bottom.

• 5:31Josh Clark?

  It's extraordinarily difficult to overstate how bad this is.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:35Josh Clark?

  And some people, you know, in researching this, you read about it, you read descriptions of these things. And it, it, it just can't possibly be gotten across until you see it. So luckily, as we will see, you can go onto YouTube.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 5:48Josh Clark?

  And watch it. And you may even enjoy this episode more if you pause, go spend two hours.

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:54Josh Clark?

  Watching this thing.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:55Josh Clark?

  And then come back and laugh along with us.

• 5:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a great, uh, over the years, there've been many segments of it on YouTube from badly dubbed VHS tapes.

• 6:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  But, uh, there is one really pretty good version of it in full.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Uh, brought to you by WHIO Dayton, Ohio, Channel 7.

• 6:14Josh Clark?

  Woo, Ohio.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  Cause that flashes up on the screen periodically.

• 6:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Man, it is high quality.

• 6:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it looks good.

• 6:20Josh Clark?

  It has to basically be the copy that the actual, um, affiliate broadcast.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:26Josh Clark?

  It's like that, that quality compared to the other stuff floating around on YouTube. Clearly recorded on a 1978 VCR.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, which were really expensive.

• 6:35Josh Clark?

  Very expensive. I did some calculating on West Egg.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 6:38Josh Clark?

  Um, so the average VCR went for about a thousand dollars. They were brand new.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  That's amazing.

• 6:43Josh Clark?

  A thousand dollars in 1978 money. So they're about thirty eight hundred dollars in 2014 money.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 6:49Josh Clark?

  Luckily, there were some rich people out there recording this stuff. And the wealthy have saved us all again.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:55Josh Clark?

  Yet again, as they always do.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Yes. Uh, we need to shout out some articles that we use for this. There's a great, a great article in Vanity Fair called "The Han Solo Comedy Hour!" exclamation point.

• 7:07Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 7:08Speaker 03

  By Frank De Giacomo. And then there's, "The Star Wars Holiday Special Was The Worst Thing On Television Ever!" by someone we kinda know, Alex Pasternak.

• 7:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, from Motherboard.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, which is, uh, not Wired, it's, uh...

• 7:21Josh Clark?

  Vice.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Vice.

• 7:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, sorry.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  We wrote a little bit for Motherboard back then, and we had a call with Alex.

• 7:26Josh Clark?

  We're like, we're like old Motherboard vets.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:29Josh Clark?

  Basically.

• 7:30Speaker 03

  And wasn't there one more?

• 7:31Josh Clark?

  There was another one, and I don't know who wrote this one, Chuck.

• 7:34Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah.

• 7:36Josh Clark?

  It's, uh, the title's "The Star Wars Holiday Special George Lucas Wants To Smash Every Copy Of With A Sledgehammer."

• 7:42Speaker 03

  Which was a famous, quote, supposedly at a convention by Lucas.

• 7:47Josh Clark?

  Yes, which is not correct.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  He didn't ever say that?

• 7:49Josh Clark?

  No.

• 7:50Speaker 03

  Okay, that, that sounded like something that people made up.

• 7:53Josh Clark?

  Yes, but if you go on the internet, you will quickly believe that he did.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 7:57Josh Clark?

  But apparently didn't. So let's...

• 7:58Speaker 03

  I'm sure he felt that way, though.

• 7:59Josh Clark?

  Clearly.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  You know?

• 8:00Josh Clark?

  Cause he did appear on Robot Chicken in, I think, 2005, on the therapist's couch talking about how much he hated the special. Alright, so let's set the background, shall we? Shall we go back to 1977?

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 8:12Josh Clark?

  Summer?

• 8:13Speaker 03

  Getting the old Wayback Machine.

• 8:14Josh Clark?

  Alright, let's do it.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Alright, here we are.

• 8:23Josh Clark?

  There's Wooderson.

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm just a little six-year-old excited about Star Wars.

• 8:28Josh Clark?

  I am, uh, I've just turned one.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Yes, you don't know what's up yet.

• 8:31Josh Clark?

  I, please forgive me if I urinate myself.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  No problem.

• 8:35Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  Uh, so what has happened is Star Wars has become a huge, huge hit, seemingly out of nowhere.

• 8:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Uh, establishing George Lucas as one of the brilliant young minds in filmmaking. Uh, even though it wasn't his first movie, it was his first huge, huge breakout hit.

• 8:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, talk about a breakout hit. Like, no one had ever seen anything like it before.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  No.

• 8:57Josh Clark?

  2001 had come out in the late 60s.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:00Josh Clark?

  But it wasn't... It still isn't accessible to all audiences, you know? It's not a cerebral film.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not an adventure movie.

• 9:09Josh Clark?

  This was, yeah, this is like basically swashbuckling on the screen, but, you know, in a galaxy far, far away. Star Wars just changed everything and it came on just like a hammer.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Yeah. There's a new hope, by the way.

• 9:21Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  And I know we're gonna get stuff wrong, nerds, so just go ahead and get your little fingers ready to email us.

• 9:27Josh Clark?

  Like, if it wasn't driven home that I'm not a nerd by the fact that I don't have opening night tickets or any tickets yet, give me a break.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 9:35Josh Clark?

  And by proxy Chuck, too, okay?

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Yes, thank you.

• 9:37Josh Clark?

  So, um, it's, it's hard to state how great Star Wars was in everyone's mind.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:45Josh Clark?

  Right? Bill Murray came out with that lounge singer Star Wars thing.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was everywhere.

• 9:49Josh Clark?

  And if you, if you just listen to the lyrics of it, he's really, it's just Bill Murray singing about how much Star Wars is awesome.

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:56Josh Clark?

  Right?

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:57Josh Clark?

  So, by the following year, um, George Lucas was, he wanted to figure out a way to keep audiences just engaged with the whole Star Wars franchise that he was just starting to build. But he knew the Empire Strikes Back was a couple more years out.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 10:14Josh Clark?

  So, um, he, I think he was approached by some TV executives who said, "Have you considered doing some sort of TV special?" They're all enraged right now. "We have a, we have a graphic that's really awesome that we set aside just for TV specials here at CBS. Why don't you let us, let's get together and do a Star Wars special?"

• 10:35Speaker 03

  That's right. Producers Gary Smith and Dwight Hemeon were working over at CBS. And they said, "This is a great way to keep the spirit alive while you're making your other movie. Maybe move some more toys."

• 10:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, which George Lucas got a cut of all the toys.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Sure, so, uh, it was right before Thanksgiving and he said, "There'd be a lot of people watching TV, um, pre-holiday season, or I guess in the holiday season."

• 10:59Josh Clark?

  Well, the weekend before Thanksgiving, it's like everybody's shopping, sitting around with family, like waiting to actually do stuff.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 11:06Josh Clark?

  Perfect time to broadcast something on TV.

• 11:08Speaker 03

  So Lucas says, "All right, let's do this. Uh, I don't have a ton of time, but how about this? I'll get, I'll get a story together and then you can go hire a whiz-bang team of, of veteran writers and producers and directors."

• 11:22Josh Clark?

  Whatever genre you think is appropriate. And those are the words that will haunt George Lucas to his grave.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Lucas said, here's my idea. I want it to be based on Wookiees. And I want it to take place on their home planet of Kizook, or Wookie Planet C.

• 11:41Josh Clark?

  Is that how you say it, Kizook?

• 11:42Speaker 03

  That's how it's pronounced in the episode, the holiday special. But it's also pronounced different ways other times.

• 11:50Josh Clark?

  I would have pronounced it Keshyeyyuk.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  Spell it.

• 11:54Josh Clark?

  K A S H Y Y Y K.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:58Josh Clark?

  Which, I mean, I guess that sounds like Chewbacca's planet.

• 12:00Speaker 03

  Sure. Also called G5623, Wookie Planet C, or Idion, is a mid-rim planet.

• 12:06Josh Clark?

  Right. So the whole reason, apparently, that George Lucas was interested in featuring the Wookiees was, it is what we in show business call low-hanging fruit. The reason why it was low-hanging fruit was because they had just established the different scenes that would make the cut for Empire Strikes Back.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:25Josh Clark?

  And, how did you pronounce it again?

• 12:28Speaker 03

  Kizook.

• 12:28Josh Clark?

  Kizook had not made the cut. Even prior to this, apparently for A New Hope, George Lucas had whipped up a 40-page, what's known as the Wookie Bible.

• 12:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:38Josh Clark?

  It's like a 40-page supplement that's all about Kizook, and Wookiees, and Chewbacca, and his family, and everything about Wookiedom, right?

• 12:48Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 12:48Josh Clark?

  So he's like, I've got this thing already, you know, established. I love Wookiees. They didn't make the cut. I'm a little sad about that. They're not gonna, Kizook is not gonna show up in Empire Strikes Back. Let's, let's build the entire special around Wookiees. It's basically the one demand me, George Lucas has.

• 13:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:07Josh Clark?

  That's it. I'll be totally hands-off from this point on.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Which he kinda was.

• 13:11Josh Clark?

  He totally was, and it was actually this experience that apparently taught him to be the very hands-on person that he is famous for being. It came out of this Christmas special.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  Absolutely. He was burned and had an iron grip after that on everything. So, here's some, some of the folks behind it. Bruce Valanche, famous TV writer. You've probably seen him on Hollywood Squares.

• 13:34Josh Clark?

  Wasn't he suspected of being Thomas Pynchon for a while?

• 13:37Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 13:38Josh Clark?

  Or was Thomas Pynchon on Hollywood Squares?

• 13:41Speaker 03

  I have no idea.

• 13:42Josh Clark?

  I may be confabulating some stuff, confounding.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:46Josh Clark?

  There's some con of some sort going on.

• 13:48Speaker 03

  That sounds like it.

• 13:49Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  So, Valanche was hired as a writer, a guy named Lenny Rips was hired as a writer.

• 13:55Josh Clark?

  Who has some great quotes in that Vanity Fair article.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  He does. His first quote was, "We were really excited because this is Star Wars. How could it lose?"

• 14:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Famous last words.

• 14:06Speaker 03

  Uh, who else was hired? There was a husband and wife team, The Welch's.

• 14:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Who are the parents of folk singer Gillian Welch, who I'm a big fan of. And I had no idea that her parents, they were producers slash songwriters of the day. They were big on the variety show scene, which would turn out to be a really key cog in this whole experience.

• 14:30Josh Clark?

  So, I feel like right about here, Jerry should insert a needle coming off of a record sound effect.

• 14:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:38Josh Clark?

  Okay, thanks Jerry. So Chuck, you just said singer-songwriters.

• 14:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. What would that have to do with Star Wars?

• 14:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Well, actually, in this Star Wars holiday special, for those of you who hadn't seen it, there are musical numbers. They decided from the outset that there should be musical numbers. And the reason that they decided that there should be musical numbers is because the people who sold, George Lucas, and at the time, it was the Star Wars Corporation was what it was called.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:06Josh Clark?

  On the idea of doing this TV special was that everyone would love a variety show.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was the 70s.

• 15:12Josh Clark?

  Great idea. Let's do a variety show. The problem was this. Apparently, George Lucas didn't watch enough TV.

• 15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:18Josh Clark?

  And he also overly trusted people who talked to him.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 15:21Josh Clark?

  Because by 1978, yes, variety shows had dominated television for over 10 years. But it had come to an end. It was getting stale.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're talking Carol Burnett Show, one of my favorites.

• 15:35Josh Clark?

  Had just been canceled after 11 seasons.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 15:38Josh Clark?

  That's a big red flag.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Sunny and Cher had just had its last season.

• 15:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  I mean, what else? Like Hee Haw was, Hee Haw was still going on.

• 15:46Josh Clark?

  Probably.

• 15:46Speaker 03

  They didn't know when to quit.

• 15:47Josh Clark?

  I think Hee Haw's still on. Solid Gold had yet to come on and take up the mantle.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  That wasn't a variety show.

• 15:54Josh Clark?

  It was a little bit. There was talking in between the songs.

• 15:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, remember the Mandrell Sisters show?

• 16:00Josh Clark?

  I never watched that one. What was with that country chic thing that happened?

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a big deal in the seventies. It's kind of happening again, I think.

• 16:08Josh Clark?

  Oh, because of that dude? The guy who won all the CMA awards?

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't know.

• 16:14Josh Clark?

  He's like, he's, he came along and he's like, actually country. His dad's like a coal miner for real from Kentucky.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  I think I know who you mean. Chris, what's his face?

• 16:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's, he is good.

• 16:24Josh Clark?

  He's come along and been like, what are you guys doing?

• 16:26Speaker 03

  Well, there's a revival in like, good country music again.

• 16:29Josh Clark?

  That's great.

• 16:29Speaker 03

  Like in the tradition of Merle Haggard and Johnny Cash.

• 16:32Josh Clark?

  And I guess it's probably where the country chic came from, because there was actually good country going on.

• 16:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, Johnny Cash had a variety show.

• 16:39Josh Clark?

  Did he really?

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:40Josh Clark?

  I knew they did like a, a Sunday singing thing, like out in Virginia.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, he had his own variety show. It was actually pretty good. There were some like, really great performances.

• 16:49Josh Clark?

  Do you know how many nerds are like, get back to Star Wars?

• 16:52Speaker 03

  I know, I'm so sorry. All right, so the variety show is, is dying sort of. And so they figure, what a great time to take the biggest movie property on the planet and, and wedge it into the variety show, uh, milieu.

• 17:06Josh Clark?

  I don't know if wedge is the right word. I think maybe, uh, nestle it in there.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:11Josh Clark?

  And then start hitting it with the blunt edge of an axe until it mashes into that crevice. You know?

• 17:18Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 17:18Josh Clark?

  Because this is the time when Fantasy Island had just started. Mork and Mindy was about to change things. Charlie's Angels was getting huge. It basically, television as we knew it from nineteen eighty to whenever the real world came along.

• 17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:34Josh Clark?

  Just escapist television is what they called it. Was, was starting and it was the hip new thing. So basically if they had turned Han Solo and Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker into maybe, you know, sexy detectives, it might have gone over even better, but they went the other way. They decided to latch on to this extraordinarily stale, um, genre of television. And they hired the best in the business.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:58Josh Clark?

  Like, there was, there was, there was a quote from, I think, Lenny Rips, who was saying like, we had literally a dream team.

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:05Josh Clark?

  A variety show dream team. And everybody was good, but there were probably no bad welders on the Titanic either.

• 18:12Speaker 03

  That's a great quote.

• 18:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  Uh, the guy they hired to direct it initially was a dude named David Akomba. And, uh, he had made his name, uh, for Welcome to the Fillmore East. It was a concert documentary with Van Mortison, uh, Van Morrison and the Byrds in 1971. And he actually was at USC Film School the same time as Lucas, even though they didn't know each other. And, um, he only ended up directing about three segments of the thing.

• 18:37Josh Clark?

  Before he quit.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  Yep. Before he walked off. Some say he was actually let go. Uh, but we'll get to him in a minute and who replaced him.

• 18:44Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  Uh, as, as we get along down this, uh, gross road.

• 18:48Josh Clark?

  Well, let's, let's take a little break because I'm, I'm overly excited.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  All right.

• 18:52Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 19:01Speaker 04

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 19:12Speaker 05

  AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing and where.

• 19:28Speaker 04

  Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 19:31Speaker 06

  This is Colin Cowherd from the Colin Cowherd Podcast. Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. All starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or a half ton Tundra to a Toyota's most capable and longest lasting trucks. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. For a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com. Toyota. Let's go places.

• 20:15Speaker 03

  All right, so we've established most of the main players. We'll get to a few more. We should point out that Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher.

• 20:25Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 20:25Speaker 03

  Peter Mayhew.

• 20:27Josh Clark?

  They had no grounds to refuse to be on this, basically.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, pretty much. They were not huge, huge stars yet. They could throw their weight around and say, "This is terrible and I'm not doing it."

• 20:37Josh Clark?

  They were, they were big overnight because of Star Wars, for sure, but they weren't to the adoring public.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 20:45Josh Clark?

  Back at the studio, they could still be bossed around and this was the result of it. And you can tell also, just from watching the actual special, like Harrison Ford is not happy to be there at any point.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 20:59Josh Clark?

  Princess Leia is clearly on drugs.

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Uh, was she on drugs at this point?

• 21:05Josh Clark?

  She, if you watch it, she's, she's on drugs, especially the ending scene. Mark Hamill.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  He looks like he's happy to be there, actually.

• 21:13Josh Clark?

  He was fine, but apparently he said, "No, I'm, I'm not doing a musical number."

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:18Josh Clark?

  And if you watch his part, wedging a musical number in there would have been even more painful.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 21:24Josh Clark?

  But they, everybody who was part of the actual Star Wars franchise that wasn't wearing like a full-body costume.

• 21:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:32Josh Clark?

  Was like, "I'm, I really wish I wasn't here." And you can tell.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. In fact, in the opening credit sequence, they're showing the picture, the, you know, the faces of the people.

• 21:42Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 21:43Speaker 03

  And you see Harrison Ford as if he's flying the Millennium Falcon and you can, you can just hear the guy off-screen going, "Now, look at the camera and just give a nod. Just look at the camera and give a nod."

• 21:52Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  And he finally, you can tell he's pissed off and he looks up at the camera and just sort of smirks.

• 21:57Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and points at the camera like, "Okay, I'm looking at the camera," and then goes back to what he's doing. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  I felt bad for him. So, early on, Valanche and others kind of...

• 22:07Josh Clark?

  Did you, did you feel bad for him, though, really? I mean, like, come on. It's Harrison Ford, it's Han Solo. He has to go do this for, like, five days.

• 22:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I felt terrible for him.

• 22:17Josh Clark?

  I think it's hilarious that they had to do this, especially now.

• 22:21Speaker 03

  Well, early on, Valanche and others knew that they may be in trouble because they decided not to subtitle any of the Wookiee dialogue.

• 22:28Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  And they literally started, after a brief opening scene setting it up, here, here's the basic plot is... Han Solo is trying to get Chewbacca back to Kazook in time for Life Day. So he can celebrate with his family.

• 22:42Josh Clark?

  That's the basis of the entire two hours.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  That's the basis of the entire two hours. They encounter a space battle and they're delayed. And the next two hours are kind of what's going on while the delay is happening.

• 22:56Josh Clark?

  Back on Kazook.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Back on Kazook.

• 22:57Josh Clark?

  Because you hear like, oh, okay, well, Han Solo and Chewbacca evading the Imperial Guard and all that stuff for two hours. I would watch that.

• 23:05Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 23:05Josh Clark?

  I would too.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:07Josh Clark?

  That's not what they show.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  Killing time at the Wookiee household.

• 23:10Josh Clark?

  That is what they show.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:13Josh Clark?

  That's what they do. It's people hanging out, waiting for Chewbacca, worrying about him.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:17Josh Clark?

  And then killing time while they wait for him to come back.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, literally, so, um.

• 23:22Josh Clark?

  And so, hold on, so you say there's a setup, right?

• 23:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the initial setup.

• 23:26Josh Clark?

  And then, Chuck, that's followed by this.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's followed by literally 10 minutes. 10 solid minutes of incomprehensible Wookiee speak.

• 23:39Josh Clark?

  So let's, let's join it for a second, shall we?

• 23:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:41Josh Clark?

  Let's all enjoy it.

• 24:27Josh Clark?

  And again, you said 10 minutes and you're not exaggerating, you're not being hyperbolic.

• 24:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:33Josh Clark?

  You can time it. That's, it's 10 minutes of Wookies talking to each other with no subtitles. Fortunately.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  I couldn't follow it at first. Like, I didn't even know who it was. I thought it was, might have been Chewbacca's mom and dad.

• 24:47Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, that's.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  And little brother.

• 24:48Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  And I don't find out until later when Mark Hamill shows up via Skype call.

• 24:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  And says, he really explains everything that had just happened. Like, you're Chewbacca's father.

• 25:00Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  Itchy, you're Chewbacca's son.

• 25:03Josh Clark?

  Lumpy.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Lumpy.

• 25:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 25:04Speaker 03

  And you are Chewbacca's wife.

• 25:06Josh Clark?

  Oh, Mala.

• 25:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you.

• 25:08Josh Clark?

  So before everybody starts like freaking out, we know that that's actually their nicknames. Their real names are, his father is Etichikook. Etichikook.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  It's really hard to pronounce.

• 25:21Josh Clark?

  Malato Buck is his wife, and his son is Lumpo Warump.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  But, as named by Lucas.

• 25:28Josh Clark?

  But, yeah, but Lucas also named him Lumpy, Itchy, and Mala.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:33Josh Clark?

  So, um, they're all back there wringing their hands, trying to figure out ways to pass the time, uh, until they get word from Chewbacca that he's made it to, uh, what is it, Ketchuk?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Kazook.

• 25:45Josh Clark?

  Kazook.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Did you say ketchup?

• 25:48Josh Clark?

  Ketchup, or catsup if you're fancy.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:51Josh Clark?

  Um, but Chewbacca is having trouble getting back to Ketchuk because there's.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  Kazook.

• 25:59Josh Clark?

  Because there's a blockade by the Empire, and they're looking for rebels, specifically Chewbacca, who I didn't realize this, he's the most famous Wookiee of all. Did you know that?

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 26:09Josh Clark?

  I didn't know that.

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, he's the only one that really appears in the movies. I mean, to that degree.

• 26:15Josh Clark?

  We're seeing like, you know, these people's view of the universe. What about back on?

• 26:21Speaker 03

  Kazook, yeah, he might have just been a fly-by-night Wookiee.

• 26:24Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, but not the case. Very famous Wookiee.

• 26:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and he really loved to like soak in his fame.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  All right, so he realizes there's a problem, Valanche, he goes to Lucas and is like. I don't know, man. This is your world, but it may not be the strongest thing to do to set this in Wookiee land and have all this incomprehensible dialogue. And he says he was met with a glacial stare.

• 26:49Josh Clark?

  Well, he put it a little differently than that.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Well, he said glacial stare.

• 26:53Josh Clark?

  He did. The glacial stare that he got was for this quote. He said, "These people just talk in what sounds like fat people having an orgasm."

• 27:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:02Josh Clark?

  He goes, "If you want, you can set up a tape recorder in my bedroom and I'll do all of the foleying it for it."

• 27:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's a large guy.

• 27:08Josh Clark?

  He is. So that's what got the glacial stare. But Valanche later said that from this, there was one development meeting that Lucas attended, and it was, "Here's the Wookiee Bible. Tell me what you got." And Valanche said he and the other writers and producers and director were just kind of throwing ideas and George Lucas would either say like, "No, that doesn't work. Give them a glacial stare," or say, "Yes, that's exactly it. Yes, let's make this a variety show."

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there was a little bit of background there. The Cantina players in the band had appeared on other variety shows at that point.

• 27:45Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  And I think it went over fairly well, just as a short segment on like the Richard Pryor variety show or Donnie Marie.

• 27:54Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  Man, there were a lot of variety shows.

• 27:57Josh Clark?

  But that's what I'm saying. It was, that was television. That's what you did. Like the Bravies, the show had its course and then it became a variety show. It was just, everybody loved variety shows.

• 28:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I still do.

• 28:11Josh Clark?

  By this time, though, everybody was sick of variety shows.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 28:14Josh Clark?

  And so it really was a terrible choice.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  In fact, they even hired a couple of writers from Shields and Yarnell.

• 28:21Josh Clark?

  Which I hadn't heard of, had you?

• 28:22Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I watched it. It was these creepy, this mime couple who had their own variety show. And they figured, "These two will be great because they are used to working without words."

• 28:35Josh Clark?

  Right. So, and so there is a certain logic to the variety show.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  There's logic all over the place.

• 28:39Josh Clark?

  It's not just that variety shows were popular.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:41Josh Clark?

  At the time. Somebody was like, "Well, Wookiees, you don't understand what They're saying, so this is all gonna be very physical. So, these people who, who did, what is it, Shields and Yarnell?

• 28:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:52Josh Clark?

  That, that's a perfect choice. That, that makes complete sense. You can see this whole, this whole process of leading up to the point where it was produced and shot and everything.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:02Josh Clark?

  A, a series of like, oh, we have this problem. Well, here's a fix.

• 29:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:06Josh Clark?

  Well, but that leads to another problem. Well, we'll fix it with this. And, and no one's stepping back and being like, all we've done is create a series of problems that are going to come together and make one extraordinarily large problem that will become legendary. No one did that. And so the whole thing was, was made.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  That's right. And it eventually airs on, uh...

• 29:26Josh Clark?

  November 17th, 1978, a Friday at 8:00 PM Eastern Time.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  That's right. And, uh, according to Nielsen ratings, it, um, attracted 13 million viewers, uh, lost the second hour.

• 29:39Josh Clark?

  Just in the US. It aired in six or seven countries total.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, but no one cares about that.

• 29:45Josh Clark?

  I guess not, because none of those are on the internet, you know?

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Uh, it, it finished second to The Love Boat in the second, or I'm sorry, from eight to nine. And then the next hour actually finished behind part two of a mini-series about Pearl Harbor starring Angie Dickinson. So, it didn't even win their respective hours.

• 30:02Josh Clark?

  No, 13 million, that's, that's not bad. The thing is, apparently, if you look at the Nielsen ratings graph, for the first hour...

• 30:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, we know about that graph.

• 30:11Josh Clark?

  It's okay. Yeah, we do. And then, after a, a very important part, which we'll talk about soon, um, it just drops off at the end of the first hour. And that actually probably made the executives at CBS cringe for a number of reasons. Number one is this special was originally supposed to just be an hour, but so many advertisers wanted to sign on.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:33Josh Clark?

  That they extended it to two hours.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Oh, you can tell.

• 30:36Josh Clark?

  And it shines through. You can totally tell that this thing was never supposed to be... I think an hour might have been stretching it, to tell you the truth.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:45Josh Clark?

  It's 30 minutes of content, 40 if you're generous, an hour, meh, and then two hours, it becomes one of the worst things that was ever put on television.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  All right, well, let's take a break, and then we'll talk a little bit more about the actual, um, uh, I even don't want to call it content. But it is content in the strictest definition.

• 31:06Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  Right after this.

• 31:17Josh Clark?

  Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I spoke with IBM's Ana Paula Assis about what digital sovereignty actually means in the age of AI.

• 31:27Speaker 05

  AI now moves from somebody operating a system to the technology actually making decisions. So you have to have a much better visibility of what AI is touching, data it is accessing, and where.

• 31:44Josh Clark?

  Hear the full conversation wherever you get your podcasts.

• 31:47Speaker 06

  Hey, it's Covino and Rich Davis from Covino and Rich. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's most capable and longest-lasting trucks. Combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which can mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 32:34Speaker 03

  All right. So the show itself, we've given you the main plotline, which again is that Chewie is trying to get back to his home planet to celebrate Life Day with his family.

• 32:44Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 32:46Josh Clark?

  And again, we almost barely see Chewie.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:49Josh Clark?

  The rest is his family on...

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Kizuk.

• 32:52Josh Clark?

  Waiting for him to come back for Life Day.

• 32:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. So some of the various things they did, there were guest stars. There was Harvey Korman from The Carol Burnett Show.

• 33:00Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  One of my all-time favorites.

• 33:03Josh Clark?

  Him or Carol Burnett Show?

• 33:05Speaker 03

  Both.

• 33:06Josh Clark?

  He's great.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:08Josh Clark?

  He actually, if you watch what he's doing, you're like, this guy's a comedy genius, for sure.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  Well, apparently, he too was like the only one on set that was bringing levity. He was joking around and kind of kept spirits up.

• 33:17Josh Clark?

  Good for him.

• 33:18Speaker 03

  That's what I say.

• 33:19Josh Clark?

  And he had three different parts.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, he played, well, I don't even know the names, actually. We could look them up. But he played a... He played a Julia Child-like cook. There's an actual cooking segment.

• 33:35Josh Clark?

  A long one.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  A very long cooking segment where Chewbacca's wife makes Bantha stew.

• 33:41Josh Clark?

  To kill some time.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  To kill some time, uh, because they're just waiting.

• 33:45Josh Clark?

  On her planet and in our living room.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, so Harvey Korman is in drag as a four-armed Julia Child-like, uh, TV chef.

• 33:53Josh Clark?

  Right. I think it's Gormonda is her name.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  Gormonda, that makes total sense.

• 33:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Uh, he also plays, um, there's this one weird bit where Chewbacca's son tries to figure out a way to trick the stormtroopers. The, the empire had come and kind of, because the blockade raided the house and other properties. So he tries to trick them, uh, by, I think rigging a comlink, uh, to speak in a, a different voice. So he has to watch the instruction manual.

• 34:22Josh Clark?

  He watches an instruction video.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Which was Harvey Keitel as a robot.

• 34:28Josh Clark?

  It, oh, it would have been wonderful if it been Harvey Keitel.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  Oh, did I say Harvey?

• 34:32Josh Clark?

  Harvey Korman.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 34:34Josh Clark?

  Harvey Keitel murders someone in the middle of the instruction.

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Harvey Korman, and then the final role he had was as a, uh, a bar patron in the cantina, uh, that drinks. He has a hole in the top of his head, like a volcano, where he pours his drinks in. That's how he drinks.

• 34:51Josh Clark?

  And he, he loves Bea Arthur.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  Did we mention Bea Arthur was in it?

• 34:55Josh Clark?

  Bea Arthur is not only in it, Chuck, she sings a song.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  She does. She is the, uh, unbeknownst to everyone, she manages or maybe owns the cantina.

• 35:04Josh Clark?

  She's the owner.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:05Josh Clark?

  The, what's the Ma's what? Ma's Def cantina?

• 35:08Speaker 03

  Uh, no, Ma's Def is a rapper.

• 35:11Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  I think you mean Ma's Isley?

• 35:13Josh Clark?

  Yes, yes, that cantina. She's the owner. Bea Arthur is the owner. Bea Arthur of the Golden Girls, but in this case Bea Arthur of Maude, because

• 35:21Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 35:21Josh Clark?

  as one of the people who wrote one of the articles we based this on points out, she's just basically playing Maude as the owner of the cantina.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, and her song comes because, um, they, uh, basically say, there's a lockdown, so you gotta call Last Call.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Um, at your bar. So she calls Last Call by singing a song to everyone.

• 35:40Josh Clark?

  Right. And again, we can't possibly have the script lead anywhere else but Chewbacca's house while his family waits for it. So all this takes place as part of a public service announcement, basically.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:54Josh Clark?

  Broadcast by the Empire.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:55Josh Clark?

  About how immoral life on Tatooine is.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 35:58Josh Clark?

  So let's go see what's going on in the Maz Easley Cantina as it's being shut down for curfew.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. All right. This is incomprehensible, but it goes on. Um, so there in it, there's also Art Carney.

• 36:14Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 36:14Speaker 03

  Uh, of the Honeymooners fame.

• 36:16Josh Clark?

  Probably the star of the whole thing, really. He has the most lines, I would say. The most comprehensible line.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  So he plays a trader, a human trader, um, that is, uh, recently been with Han Solo and Chewie and actually gets to Kazook and says, "They're on the way. It's all good."

• 36:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah, a trader, not traitor.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, a trader is in, trades humans for, you know, money.

• 36:42Josh Clark?

  No, he, he sells goods.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, a trader.

• 36:46Josh Clark?

  He doesn't trade humans.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's in the human trade.

• 36:50Josh Clark?

  No, he isn't really?

• 36:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:52Josh Clark?

  He trades humans? Like he sells humans?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  I looked it up in the, in Star Wars Encyclopedia. It said that he was in the human trade.

• 36:58Josh Clark?

  Huh. So in this Christmas special.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:02Josh Clark?

  Apparently they sanitized his, his background because he's basically just selling like gadgets and novelties and stuff like that to the Wookiees and the Empire, uh, who were occupying the area.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  Yes. He comes bearing gifts.

• 37:15Josh Clark?

  Yeah, cause he's a friend of Chewbacca's family.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  Yeah. So he comes bearing gifts. One of the gifts he gives is a, um, sort of like a little digital insert to a, oh, I guess you would call it a virtual reality.

• 37:29Josh Clark?

  Hair dryer.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Hair dryer. Like a, a beauty shop hair dryer.

• 37:33Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  He gives it to Grandpa Itchy. Grandpa Itchy, um, sits under this hair dryer, pops in this, uh, digital cassette and it can only be described as softcore porn.

• 37:47Josh Clark?

  Apparently the writers who were interviewed for this said that was totally the intent. They were trying to get what amounted to softcore porn that would pass the censors.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 37:57Josh Clark?

  So it's all.

• 38:00Josh Clark?

  You can't even say it's innuendo. It's too obvious and overt for innuendo. Instead, it's just, it's just, it's just gross. It's really gross. Diane Carroll.

• 38:11Speaker 03

  Great singer.

• 38:12Josh Clark?

  Yes, she is. A Vegas staple, shows up and starts basically tantalizing Grandpa Itchy. Who, again, this is Chewbacca's elderly father, who now engages in some sort of, well, he's, he's watching virtual reality pornography now. And this is a pretty lengthy segment in and of itself.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, and she literally says to him, like, now I can see you're really excited.

• 38:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah. It's pretty rough to watch.

• 38:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. So then you've got another musical number.

• 38:43Josh Clark?

  Because also, again, he, he shudders.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:46Josh Clark?

  It's really strange.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  Uh, all right. So there's also a, I know it seems like we're jumping around, but it's, it's so mind blowing.

• 38:55Josh Clark?

  No, we're not. Like, this is pretty much like blow for blow.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Um, actually, I forgot, earlier on in, in the, in the special, um, there's one of my favorite sequences is when Grandpa Itchy goes over to Lumpy and basically sets up, remember the, the hologram chessboard that they played in A New Hope?

• 39:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Basically kind of sets that up and says, here, just play this. He pushes the button, which is clearly a 1970s cassette recorder.

• 39:22Speaker 03

  And another, uh, like, it's like a Cirque du Soleil, uh, acid trip.

• 39:29Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 03

  Um, gymnast routine happens in front of the kid's eyes.

• 39:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  And again, this all just, it's not like it shows a snippet. They show the entire segments, like, five, six, 10 minutes long.

• 39:41Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  Of all of these things.

• 39:43Josh Clark?

  So you would think, okay, they've gone to this hologram well a couple of times. Why not go to it again? Well, they do. They do. To kill more time while the Imperial Guard is ransacking their house. Um, Art Carney, apparently, uh, I guess is trying to get one of the Imperial Guard, the leader, I think, or one of the leaders.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  Who looks like somebody from Spaceballs, by the way.

• 40:05Josh Clark?

  Very much so.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:06Josh Clark?

  Um, and the writer of the Vanity Fair article, by the way, said, um, this, this is so incomprehensible, the special is, George Lucas didn't even have the Schwartz with him at the time. So, anyway, Art Carney's distracting this Imperial leader while they're ransacking the Wookiee's house, Chewbacca's house, with a hologram. And this hologram, instead of being an acrobat, or Diane Carroll, or any kind of porn, or anything like that, is Jefferson Starship. And they decide that they're going to play Light the Sky on Fire, which apparently is about UFOs.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  It's a little music video, basically.

• 40:45Josh Clark?

  It's a, yeah, it's the predecessor to, like, Video Killed the Radio Star. You can tell. And again, it is the whole lengthy song.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:56Josh Clark?

  The whole thing. So every time that somebody's like, "We need to escape mentally from what's going on here in our house, let's go into the video world," it's not just, and they don't cut back and forth.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  No.

• 41:10Josh Clark?

  It's, "Okay, here's five minutes of Jefferson Starship performing this song."

• 41:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, and even the Jefferson Starship guys were like, "You know, it's sort of a weird trip. Like, we didn't get it, but we did it."

• 41:21Josh Clark?

  Right. They gave us some money.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:24Josh Clark?

  And some cocaine.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  Well, probably so.

• 41:26Josh Clark?

  So, we said, "Yeah." Chuck, I think, though, yet another segment like this is actually widely regarded as the high point of the whole thing.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Oh, sure. Agreed.

• 41:38Josh Clark?

  So, there is a cartoon, actually.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, that Lumpy watches.

• 41:41Josh Clark?

  Yeah, Lumpy's like, "The Imperial Guard is still ransacking my house. I think I'll entertain myself by watching a cartoon on my little, I don't know what it, I guess it was an iPad." And he watches this cartoon, and it's actually remarkable for a number of reasons. It's the best part of the whole special.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, generally agreed upon as such.

• 42:03Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  Not just us.

• 42:05Josh Clark?

  And it introduces Boba Fett. It's the first time Boba Fett ever makes an appearance in the Star Wars universe.

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's actually not a bad, and you can't find it in the, um... The one version I told you to watch, they removed it for copyright.

• 42:16Josh Clark?

  They didn't.

• 42:17Speaker 03

  But you can watch a separate version.

• 42:18Josh Clark?

  Right, you can find it on its own.

• 42:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's, um, it's very much reminiscent of like, the cartoon style of the day, like a He-Man or something.

• 42:24Josh Clark?

  For sure. Even, even, but it's even a little more artsy than that.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it does have a plot that you can follow that makes sense as a Star Wars thing.

• 42:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  And it introduces Boba Fett, like you said, and, um, it's actually not bad.

• 42:38Josh Clark?

  It's like Luke and R2 and C-3PO.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:41Josh Clark?

  And they're like, they crash on a planet or something.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, and Han and Chew where you're in it, and it's the first time we see, in Darth Vader.

• 42:47Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  It's the first time we see Boba Fett and that he is, uh, that he is just doing whatever he can do for money.

• 42:54Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Like Luke trusts him at first, C-3PO's like, "You sure you should trust him this quick?"

• 42:58Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  And he's like, "Oh, 3PO, you and your non-trusting ways."

• 43:02Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  And then it turns out he's selling them out to the dark side.

• 43:05Josh Clark?

  So it's, it's basically, Boba Fett is an allegory for George Lucas himself.

• 43:11Josh Clark?

  So the cartoon comes and goes, and that was the thing that came at about the end of the first hour mark. And after that, everybody just turned off their television sets.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't remember.

• 43:24Josh Clark?

  Did you watch this when it came on?

• 43:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember watching it, but I don't remember much about it, like if I made it through at all. I mean, it was, I was seven and it was on till 10, so I probably didn't make it through at all.

• 43:34Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Plus, you're probably disturbed.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Who knows? I just remember that, I'll have to ask my brother, he might have a memory of this.

• 43:42Josh Clark?

  I'll bet he does. I'm sure he met everybody afterward or something like that, you know, has a picture.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  Well, he was 10 at that point, so cynicism had, you know, become a thing in his life, probably.

• 43:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, by then?

• 43:52Speaker 03

  Sure. Didn't that, when cynicism kicks in?

• 43:54Josh Clark?

  I, I could see Scott holding out to 14, 15.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, maybe so.

• 43:57Josh Clark?

  So, um, Chuck, the whole thing finally does end, and actually, there's a guy, uh, his name's Nathan Rabin. He, he writes over at the AV Club.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:06Josh Clark?

  He had a great quote. He basically said that one of the great redeeming values of this, um, this special is that it does eventually end.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know what the first part of the quote is? Uh, "I'm not convinced the special wasn't ultimately written and directed by a sentient bag of cocaine."

• 44:20Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And it, like, go read his, his review of the Star Wars holiday special, because he goes on to describe exactly what that must have been like.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:29Josh Clark?

  That development meeting where the bag of cocaine is pacing back and forth, talking about what should happen.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Right, that's what it feels like.

• 44:35Josh Clark?

  But it does end, and it ends. Even more, it takes this bizarre two hours and wraps it up in just a nice bizarre bow.

• 44:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, so what happens is eventually Han Solo, should we say spoiler alert?

• 44:50Speaker 03

  Eventually Han Solo and Chewie make it to the planet. They park on the far side of the planet because they know the the Imperial forces are there.

• 44:58Josh Clark?

  And the exercise will do Chewie good.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they have to hike over there. They eventually make it back home. They find the stormtroopers at their house.

• 45:07Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 45:08Speaker 03

  Their tree hut.

• 45:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, way high up.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  The paintings that set this up, I don't think we mentioned. I don't even call them matte paintings. It looks like someone painted something on the wall and they just like put a camera in front of it.

• 45:21Josh Clark?

  Pretty much.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. So they get back and Chewbacca, Han Solo hides around the corner. Chewbacca steps in front of his son to protect him.

• 45:30Josh Clark?

  Sure.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Han Solo jumps out and the stormtrooper trips over a pile of logs and falls over the balcony.

• 45:38Josh Clark?

  And dies in a holiday special.

• 45:40Speaker 03

  So they wouldn't even, not only could he not shoot first with Greedo, but they couldn't even have him wrestle the stormtrooper and throw him off. He trips over a log.

• 45:50Josh Clark?

  Right. And Han Solo has his hands thrown up like, wasn't me.

• 45:54Speaker 03

  It might have been a banana peel, you know?

• 45:58Josh Clark?

  But again, this is basically produced by Vaudevilleans, starring Vaudevilleans. Why not have the one death take place from basically what it amounts to, somebody slipping on a banana peel?

• 46:09Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 46:10Josh Clark?

  It's a perfect way to end it. So that's, that guy basically represents the end of the Imperial threat for the rest of Life Day.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:19Josh Clark?

  And we then see Life Day being celebrated, which is celebrated by lots of Wookiees assembling in what looks like a giant Olin Mills portrait.

• 46:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:31Josh Clark?

  And all of them are wearing red robes.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 46:37Josh Clark?

  And I know I'm uptalking and it's because my mind is still having trouble wrapping around this. And then Princess Leia comes out with C3PO. Is Mark Hamill there?

• 46:48Speaker 03

  The whole gang's there if I'm not mistaken.

• 46:50Josh Clark?

  Okay, the whole gang's there. And then they all gather around to hear a great quote from Princess Leia, which we will read verbatim.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  This holiday is yours, but we all share with you the hope that this day brings us closer to freedom and to harmony and to peace. No matter how different we appear, we're all the same in our struggle against the powers of evil and darkness. I hope that this day will always be a day of joy in which we can reconfirm our dedication and our courage, and more than anything else, our love for one another. This is the promise of the Tree of Life. Cue song.

• 47:25Josh Clark?

  Right. And we should also point out, the Tree of Life has never been mentioned up to this point.

• 47:30Speaker 03

  I had no idea what that was.

• 47:31Josh Clark?

  It just makes a sudden appearance at the end. And when you said cue song, by cue song you mean Princess Leia starts singing.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, and apparently that was one of the big contingencies on Carrie Fisher being involved.

• 47:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 47:45Speaker 03

  She's going through a phase where she's like, I kinda like singing.

• 47:46Josh Clark?

  Bruce Valanche calls it her Joni Mitchell period.

• 47:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, and she somehow convinced them to let her sing as Princess Leia.

• 47:53Josh Clark?

  And she does. And again, I've said that she looks like she's on drugs. This is the point where she really does look like she's on drugs. And it's not just me. Other writers who've written reviews of this, it's really obvious that she possibly smoked a decent amount of pot before she shot this, shot this scene. But she sings okay, it's fine. It's just the, the fact that Princess Leia is singing. And actually Bruce Valanche had a really great quote too. He says that she very much wanted to show this side of her talent. And there was general dismay because this was not what we wanted Princess Leia to be doing.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:33Josh Clark?

  She did it anyway. So the whole thing ends with her singing this song about Life Day.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  Oh yeah.

• 48:39Josh Clark?

  Which is set loosely to the John Williams Star Wars theme.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. So along the way, the director, original director quit. A new director, Steve Binder, was hired to finish the job and bring it in.

• 48:51Josh Clark?

  And he did.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  Over the original $1 million budget, of course, always. He did bring it in. And at this point, George Lucas had, he was...

• 49:04Speaker 03

  He was working on Empire Strikes Back. He didn't know what was going on. He wasn't around for the shoot.

• 49:08Josh Clark?

  No, it wasn't until it aired, I think, that he actually saw it.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Yes, and it was a travesty, obviously, if you haven't noticed that by now. Critics hated it. Star Wars fans really hated it.

• 49:19Josh Clark?

  Everybody hated. The people who were in it hated it.

• 49:22Speaker 03

  Lucas hated it.

• 49:23Josh Clark?

  Even Harvey Korman secretly hated it.

• 49:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, even Harvey Keitel hated it. Actually, he loved it. But Lucas has been asked over the years about it a lot, and he doesn't talk about it much. But in 2005, and I don't buy this for a second, he says, it was an interview, he said, "The special from 1978 really didn't have much to do with us," you know. That part is true. "I can't remember what network it was even on, but it was a thing that they did." That's a lie. There's no way he doesn't know that was CBS.

• 49:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  "We kind of just let them do it." I believe that. "It was done by," I can't even remember who the group was, but they were Variety TV guys. I'm sure he remembers a few of them. "We let them use the characters and stuff, and that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do, but you learn from those experiences."

• 50:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  I think they even used some of the footage from the movie.

• 50:14Josh Clark?

  At the end.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  It looks like some of the space stuff.

• 50:16Josh Clark?

  Like a highlight reel of the gang.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Well, and during the, it looked like some of the, they had some insert shots of like Imperial cruisers and TIE fighters and stuff.

• 50:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah, and like, remember when Chewbacca leans back and puts his hands behind his head?

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:33Josh Clark?

  That's in there. It's like a, just a highlight reel from the movie saying like, "Feel like this. Go see the movie."

• 50:38Speaker 03

  Well, and also, that means it doesn't match the look of the rest of it at all.

• 50:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 50:42Speaker 03

  It's just sort of inserted in there.

• 50:43Josh Clark?

  They tried. They definitely tried. And George Lucas is totally full of it, because in 1987, he told Starlog Magazine that the Christmas special would be out on videocassette very soon.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 50:56Josh Clark?

  And in 2007, two years after that quote you just read where he's like, "I don't even know what you're talking about," basically, he apparently considered releasing the Christmas special as a bonus on the DVDs of the first three.

• 51:11Speaker 03

  Right, but did not.

• 51:12Josh Clark?

  Didn't.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  And apparently Carrie Fisher told Lucas that, "If you want me to do DVD extras."

• 51:18Josh Clark?

  Commentary.

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, commentary, then I want a clean, original copy of the holiday special.

• 51:23Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  So why?

• 51:25Josh Clark?

  Go ahead.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  So I can play at parties when I want people to leave.

• 51:30Speaker 03

  It's pretty great.

• 51:31Josh Clark?

  It is. So, and there is, one of those clean copies is floating around out there. So you can watch this in its entirety. Some of it, like the cartoon was removed due to copyright infringement and that kind of stuff. But as, as the case with the rest of the internet, you can just go find it elsewhere and piece it together. There's also the original ads that aired in Baltimore.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:54Josh Clark?

  That are just fascinating.

• 51:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, those are always fun.

• 51:57Josh Clark?

  GM ads, where one of the guys who's in quality control is, he says, did you watch it?

• 52:03Speaker 03

  I don't think I saw that one.

• 52:04Josh Clark?

  He goes, um, we really care about these cars. And that's no jive, man. On a GM ad, and he's like dead serious.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  They're trying to be hip.

• 52:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Um, it's, uh, pretty good stuff.

• 52:15Speaker 03

  Uh, here's my final thought on it. I love it. It does not taint my Star Wars experience or my love for the franchise.

• 52:23Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  And I'm glad it is out there because it, it's a, it's a fun little stain that shouldn't be taken too seriously.

• 52:32Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Uh, I think it adds to it actually, because it's campy and awful.

• 52:38Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 52:38Speaker 03

  And I don't know, somehow that enriches the rest of it.

• 52:42Josh Clark?

  I'm with you.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  You like it?

• 52:43Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah. I mean, I watched it twice. I wouldn't have watched it a second. I wouldn't have made it through the first time. I, let me take that back. As, I'm a pro.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:51Josh Clark?

  So I wouldn't have made it through the first time. I wouldn't have watched it a second time if I wasn't, there wasn't something about it. And I figured out, I think the thing that I liked the most about it is Lumpy, Chewbacca's son.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:01Josh Clark?

  Played by an actress named Patty Maloney.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Uh-huh.

• 53:04Josh Clark?

  Who frankly is hands down the best actor in the entire thing. She, like, her responses and everything is just awesome.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  I think my favorite parts are, uh, well, there's a great Wilhelm scream.

• 53:18Josh Clark?

  Yes, I noticed that too.

• 53:19Speaker 03

  Trips over the log.

• 53:20Josh Clark?

  Jerry would not have noticed it.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Uh, and then there's a part where all the Wookiee dialogue you can't understand, but there's clearly one part where, where Itchy and Lumpy are having an exchange where Lumpy, you can make it out, goes, "I love you."

• 53:35Josh Clark?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I noticed that.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  But it's covered up, but someone was like, "We have to have at least one exchange where you sort of know what they're saying."

• 53:42Josh Clark?

  Sure. Or they were like, "I think she just said, 'I love you.' Should we have them redo it?" And the director's like, "No, I want to go." And Chuck, there's one other thing that I figured out from watching this.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 53:53Josh Clark?

  It's not readily apparent. The whole thing is made all the more odd and that there's situation after situation after situation where we, as normal audiences, were trained to expect the laugh track. There's not a laugh track.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:07Josh Clark?

  Had there been a laugh track?

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:09Josh Clark?

  It would, it might have been less bizarre.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:14Josh Clark?

  But the fact that it's missing just makes your, it agitates the mind. So it's this whole additional element that-

• 54:19Speaker 03

  It is weird. I never thought about that. There's just weird moments of silence all throughout it.

• 54:23Josh Clark?

  Yeah, like when Art Carney's doing his thing.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, telling jokes.

• 54:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Uh, okay, I agree with you Chuck. Don't take things too seriously. I think that's the great lesson in this.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then-

• 54:33Josh Clark?

  That's the lesson of Live Day.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  It is. And in 2007, uh, Rift Tracks, the great, uh, Mystery Science Theater 3000 guys, Mike Nelson, Bill Corbett, and Kevin Murphy, uh, provided audio commentary for the full version of the special. So, uh, try and go grab that if you can as well.

• 54:50Josh Clark?

  Oh, you can. It's on their site.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  Cause it's great.

• 54:51Josh Clark?

  I think it's like eight bucks.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  And those guys are awesome and-

• 54:54Josh Clark?

  They are. At least, uh, I think Corbett listens to us. So, hey, Corbett.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  You got anything else?

• 55:02Josh Clark?

  No. No, I think we did this. There's some good stuff. Go read the Vanity Fair article, uh, Han Solo Comedy Hour. There's a book called How Star Wars Conquered the Universe that has a very interesting chapter about this. That's where we found it asserted that George Lucas never said that he would smash this thing with a sledgehammer.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 55:20Josh Clark?

  Um, and there's also an entire website dedicated to it, StarWarsHolidaySpecial.com.

• 55:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:26Josh Clark?

  And, uh, if you wanna know more about the Star Wars Holiday Special, we have a ton of hard, uh, Star Wars stuff on HowStuffWorks, by the way.

• 55:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, we have cool, um, sort of fun articles about the Death Star and lightsabers.

• 55:37Josh Clark?

  Videos with, uh, Holly Fry from Stuff, uh, You Missed in History Class.

• 55:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, who, she knows her stuff.

• 55:42Josh Clark?

  She does. Um, so you can just type Star Wars in the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com and it'll bring up some cool stuff for you. Since I said "search bar," it's time for listener mail.

• 55:54Speaker 03

  Hey guys. Just finished listening to the Voynich Manuscript Podcast. Found it super interesting, especially the theories on its definition or origin. I know Josh mentioned Chuck's theory of it being drug-induced as somewhat surprising or even unlikely, given the language in the manuscript follows linguistic laws only founded in the past 100 years. But if you think about it, it's tough to stray away from familiar structures, especially for something like language. I think back to when I was younger and friends invented their own languages, or even in writing a song or poetry, creativity can sometimes be limited by what we know. So just thought I'd contribute that to the conversation.

• 56:30Josh Clark?

  Thanks, thanks.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  A big thanks for all you guys do. I've found the podcast, after moving to San Diego in the last few years, for some noise around my apartment. So basically, we were blocking out noise.

• 56:42Josh Clark?

  We do that.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Which I love. And then, as a way to get through traffic on my commute home from work, you guys are far more interesting and enjoyable than television and YouTube videos. I'm sure I've listened to hundreds and will continue to listen to hundreds more. Keep on keepin' on. That is from Amy J. Muffet.

• 56:57Josh Clark?

  Thanks a lot, Amy, in San Diego. Doesn't that mean like place of the whales in German or something like that?

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:05Josh Clark?

  Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us, you can send us an email to [email protected]. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 57:17Speaker 00

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 57:33Josh Clark?

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