How To Get Out of a Relationship Rut (or Just Know It's Over)

“Are we in a rut, or is the relationship over?” is a question so many of us have asked, and we’re breaking it down on this episode. We discuss the signs of a relationship rut, when and why they typically occur, and the questions to ask yourself to determine whether a relationship is worth saving. We discuss how to get out of the rut, from small changes to larger pivots, plus low, medium, and high effort ways to bring novelty into your relationship. We also talk about intimacy vs. sex, why not wanting to have sex isn’t always a red flag, unexpected things that can keep your relationship spicy, and a high-level sex challenge to consider. Before we get into the topic, we have a lot to catch up on – how Rayna is feeling about living in NYC and Ashley’s latest thoughts on moving, Ashley’s ongoing butt issues and a mortifying moment at the doctor, and if Rayna is regretting her short hair. Enjoy! Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: ZBiotics: Get 15% off pre-alcohol at https://zibiotics.com/gge with code GGE. Helix: Get 20% off at https://helixsleep.com/GGE. WhatNot: Get $20 off and free shipping on your first purchase when you download the app. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you gonna be thrilled, over the moon, pussy dripping, to jump all over each other? Every single weekend is a crazy thing that you've never done before, experienced before. You're doing date nights three days a week. Like, that's gonna end. Yeah, for most people.

• 0:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi, guys.

• 0:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Welcome back. Coming to you from New York.

• 0:37Rayna Greenberg?

  We did it.

• 0:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Living our best life.

• 0:39Rayna Greenberg?

  We're gonna bully you into being here.

• 0:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Every week, I'm like, do it.

• 0:43Rayna Greenberg?

  If you guys want to get into the comments and like, let us know whether or not Ashley should move here or not.

• 0:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Let us know if you think her hair is curly.

• 0:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's how you really get people into the comments.

• 0:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, I actually do have something to say about my hair. I think I'm gonna go back not long. That would be crazy. But I think I am, I know that you look nervous. I just, I, this length is not for me. This in-betweener length, I don't like.

• 1:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  So just cut it short or get a trim.

• 1:09Rayna Greenberg?

  I want really like, short, or I want like, below the, like, I want armpit length. I miss having like, longer hair.

• 1:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Get into the comments immediately. No, Raina's so good. The short hair is so, it's so you now.

• 1:20Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I feel like I'm not into it anymore. I feel like I tasted her. I tasted it two months, three months at this point, and I, I just, I know you guys are gonna bully me into keeping this, and I just-

• 1:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Please do.

• 1:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I want like, hair that's like, a little bit longer.

• 1:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, maybe then I'll take over the short hair. Like, maybe we swap?

• 1:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Did I send you that picture?

• 1:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I love it.

• 1:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm gonna put it up on the screen for you guys.

• 1:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I just had this photo that Raina took of me in France, and my hair was kinda back, and I just was like, oh, I kinda actually, that's a good photo to play with, different hairstyles, because my hair is like, back, so I threw it in Facetune just to see. And the short hair, I loved it.

• 1:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I loved it so chic.

• 1:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  But again, that's in Facetune, that's like, perfect fake AI hair.

• 2:03Rayna Greenberg?

  You can have that hair. That hair's exactly what your hair would look like.

• 2:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Maybe. We'll put it on the screen, you guys, and let me know. I was like, stunned by how much I loved it.

• 2:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I thought it was so chic, and that's how I decided. I put my hair into like, Facetune or Chat GPT or whatever, and I was just like, show me some different haircuts.

• 2:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I just don't want people to think I'm like, copying you.

• 2:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, now I'm gonna go long.

• 2:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  We know some, some friends that that happened.

• 2:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, that's kinda crazy also. That girl, the one girl's like, known for having a bob. I'm not known for having a bob.

• 2:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, okay. It would be like, if you and I really had a signature, really cunty hairstyle, and then the other person was like, I'm gonna do that too.

• 2:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, like, if you got three breast reductions.

• 2:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know what would be really, what would be like, the most competitive thing I could do is to get implants and make sure that my tits are bigger than yours now? Because you have been complaining-

• 2:51Rayna Greenberg?

  About how small they are.

• 2:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, how small they are.

• 2:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm a flat chested boomer.

• 2:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  If we really were competitive besties like that, that's what I would do. That's how you know we actually hate each other, if I get breast implants.

• 3:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I actually support it. I support you getting breasts. I mean, I think your body's perfect, but if you got bigger boobs, every day I look in the mirror and I'm like, how could you? How could you do this to yourself? Every, I have, they're 32D if you guys are curious, and every day I'm just like, I miss them.

• 3:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  They have a mind of their own.

• 3:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 3:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  What are they doing? Because your first breast reduction, they just grew back.

• 3:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 3:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  And now they've kinda shrunk. I mean, you've lost weight, but like, they really do fluctuate with your weight, I guess. Like, some people's don't.

• 3:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Mine never did, growing up. Mine were always like, I weighed like, 98 pounds when I was like, 19, and they were giant, ridiculous tits. And I feel like, day to day, they have a mind of their own too. Like, I mean, hour to hour, they have a mind. I was at this event the other night. There's a column called Sex Diaries that Ashley and I really like in New York Magazine, and the author, Alyssa, put out a book, and I went to a reading. And Alana and I were talking about my boobs in that room, and I was like, my boobs are so small now. She was like, no, they're, yeah, they're small. They're in proportion to your body. Because she, oh, she knew me for so many years with like, triple D boobs.

• 4:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Rayna Greenberg?

  But she's like, they're, you know, smaller, but they're good. And two minutes later, I was talking to Alyssa, and she was, your boobs are huge. And I was like, thank you so much.

• 4:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's whether they knew you before.

• 4:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Maybe, yeah.

• 4:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I mean, and also, they change hormonally. There was days when my breasts looked so much bigger, but they also hurt. They're heavy, and whatever's going on in them.

• 4:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Remember that trip we took in Jamaica, and everyone was commenting on how bigger boobs looked? They looked huge on that trip. It was crazy.

• 4:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I had this one bikini top. It was, it was good American. And I don't know, it wasn't like, super padded. It just really pushed them up in a crazy way. I need to bring that back. But I don't even wanna see what it would look like now, because they really have shrunk. But, yeah, one of our guy friends was like, is that Hess with the big tits?

• 4:40Rayna Greenberg?

  They look huge.

• 4:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  No one's ever said.

• 4:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I know, did it feel good though?

• 4:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hess with the big tits.

• 4:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, excuse me? Okay, let's talk about our partners, and then we will get into it.

• 4:50Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, well, speaking of Jamaica.

• 4:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Alcohol.

• 4:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I was like, where's the Jamaica?

• 4:56Rayna Greenberg?

  She gonna land the plane at some point. So, it's summertime, we're taking more trips, we're just partying more, going out more, going to more barbecues, which obviously just means you're drinking more. Zbiotics, baby.

• 5:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Why are you not doing the pre-roll?

• 5:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. You guys, I went crazy. I want broke. Anyways, Zbiotics. Get 15% off pre-alcohol at zibiotics.com/gge with code GGE, and Helix, get 20% off site-wide at helixsleep.com/gge.

• 5:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  And while we're here, and we're talking about fashion, if you guys are not getting, what, thank you to what-

• 5:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Speaking of Jamaica.

• 5:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Speaking of tits, if you wanna put clothes on yours, okay, check out Whatnot. Whatnot, get $20 off and free shipping on your first purchase when you download the app.

• 5:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 5:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Speaking of nipples, if you'd like to tweak yours. Okay, well, speaking of body stuff, I have an update about my butt.

• 6:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  The ongoing saga. So, if you are new around here, I have had a multitude of issues back there, specifically in the crack, and-

• 6:07Rayna Greenberg?

  You're so brave to talk about it.

• 6:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Rayna Greenberg?

  To go on living.

• 6:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  I, here, you know what? I'm just gonna be honest. I feel comfortable talking about this because I'm in a relationship.

• 6:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I, I totally agree.

• 6:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  This thing I'm gonna explain, this is the third time it's happened. The first time was in 2022. I don't think I came on and like, talked about it in such a way. Not that guys are listening, actually. I don't know, maybe Shashank was listening. Like, I just feel like it is kinda graphic, weird body stuff.

• 6:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  But also, you shouldn't, it just feels like, if I was single, I don't think I'd wanna share as much. I don't know, I feel like I have that freedom.

• 6:45Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know. No, I validate that, because I, I mean, it's the same thing as feeling like, I don't have to dress for the male gays anymore. It's nice. Like, listen, there's a million things that are nice about being single, but feeling like, I don't have to impress anybody but me and my partner. It's, it's nice. You do show up, you just do act differently.

• 7:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's freeing. But also, I've always been talking about weird body stuff on this podcast, even when I was single. I'm just, whatever.

• 7:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Your butthole is different.

• 7:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Rayna Greenberg?

  It feels different.

• 7:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So, I have this like, anorectal abscess, and I talked about this, if you guys really wanna run it back, April 24, 20, 2025, where I was experiencing so much pain and discomfort. It's like a cyst-type situation back there, and I had to go, like, get an incision and get it drained. And I think I did an act out on the podcast, because I was like, on all fours, basically, like, leaned over, like, face down, ass up, with this colorectal surgeon, who I love, by the way. And she, at that time, was like, we took care of this,

• 7:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  but you could have what's called a fistula, and that's a surgery, and we had a call about it after that, and I was like, on tour, planning my wedding, and she was like, you know, you can live with this, maybe, and you could probably go another year or two, like, you'll see, but if this keeps coming back, you're probably gonna wanna do the surgery, but I totally support you not wanting to do it now. There's obviously a recovery period, and you've got a lot going on. And so, over the course of the last year, it has been threatening to come back, and then it just kinda goes away on its own. Probably like, I don't know, five or six times, I can feel a little something back there.

• 8:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I can feel it, but it's not discomfort, and it's not pressure, and then it goes away. And I'm like, okay, maybe I am living with this. And I always knew if it came back in such a way where it's very uncomfortable, I know it's not gonna just go away or drain on its own, I'm gonna have to go back to her. So this happened a few nights ago, the night before I was supposed to leave to come to New York on this trip. I was like, this, this is bad. And it feels like it felt in April of 2025. And I can't fly to New York like this because I don't have a doctor there. And so I called in the morning and I'm supposed to fly out at one. My flight was at one o'clock. I called the second the doctor opens at 8:30 in the morning.

• 9:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  And her receptionist answers and I was like, you know, I'm a patient of the doctor. I don't want to say her name on the podcast. If you guys really want, need a doctor like that, you can message me and all that, you know. But I'm like a patient of hers. She told me if this happens again to just to call her and come in. And, you know, I'm supposed to fly out today. And the receptionist was so kind and understanding.

• 9:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Wow.

• 9:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  They don't have to be.

• 9:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh, they never are. It's like they pick up the phone and they, you have to say the same thing through. Have you, have you ever called a doctor's office and they acted like they spoke English? You just have to like, explain yourself three times. It's so humiliating. They're like, I don't understand. You're like, I'd like a gynecologist appointment. They're like, we don't really do that here. You're like, but aren't you?

• 9:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  And, and she was like, the doctor's booked all day. So then that's like, sorry. But she was like, I'm going to talk to her and try to get you in. And I was like, God bless you. So she was like, she's going to be in at 9:30. I'll call you back. She calls me back at like 10:00 and she's like, she says she's going to try to get you in today. And she's like, what time is your flight? Like she really was trying to make it work for me. And I'm like, I've already pushed back my flight. I was like, there's no way I'm making a 1pm flight. I've already pushed it back to three. And she's like, I don't think I can get you into the afternoon. I'm like, I'll make it work, whatever. I'll fly out tomorrow if I have to this. My health is like more important. Listen, it isn't always, but you know, it was more important in that moment. And so then she was like, she's got a meeting at 11:30. I was like, I'll come right now. She's like, where do you live? I was like, I'm 10 minutes down the road. She's, you come right now? I was like, I'm coming right now.

• 10:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's like, then come right now. I was like, I'll see you soon. And I hung up the phone. I run out.

• 10:32Rayna Greenberg?

  You'll see my boss soon.

• 10:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel like it would have been 10 minutes door to door, but I had to park and it was a whole thing. And to park in a parking deck, circle around, whatever. So I rolled up in there and the office is packed. I was like, how am I seeing this doctor today?

• 10:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Tons of butthole problems.

• 10:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  And so I'm just sitting there like, I will wait as long as it takes. I will keep pushing back my flight. I'll leave at six in the morning tomorrow if I have to. I will see this doctor today and I'm going to be patient. And I'm so thankful that they're trying to squeeze me in. Time goes by, Raina, the mental gymnastics, knowing that I need a good 15 to 20 minutes with the doctor to do the incision, to do the draining, and then can I get to the airport? Like, it was just kind of like, I still had to pack a little bit. Like, it's funny to be like, okay, if they don't take me by 11:10, you know, like, I was like, doing all the math.

• 11:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then it just starts to get a little chaotic in the doctor's office. And I could tell that they had really stacked her schedule a little too packed. And she, I knew she had a meeting at 11:30. And I could hear the doctor from like behind the desk. It gets a small office.

• 11:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, a lot of people don't do this, right? Like, it's just like, if you're the person that does butthole cyst draining, like, you're the goat.

• 11:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's incredible, but she said I could come in. She said, book her in. But then I think things got a little out of hand. And I, at one point, this is probably like 11:05 and I'm like, I need to see her by 11:10. And I hear the doctor from, I feel like I shouldn't be able to hear her, but it's a tight office. There's a lady with an abscess that's been here since 10.

• 11:58Rayna Greenberg?

  The way, my face got so hot. Nobody would have known it was you, but the person turned beet red in the room.

• 12:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  There's a lady with an abscess who's been here since 10.

• 12:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Rain, I was like, that's me.

• 12:13Rayna Greenberg?

  This is the stuff that nightmares are made of. Like, this is what you see in your nightmares. And people are like, but that couldn't really happen. Someone yells into a packed room. That's the girl with the butthole cyst.

• 12:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, I'm going to cry, the lady with the abscess. And like, are you going to see me or not? Like, what time? And I'm really like, did they immediately go, okay, Ashley Hesseltine? And then they come out, Ashley Hesseltine, lady with the abscess, who's been here since 10. I was like, 10:30 also. Like, it wasn't 10. So anyway, they finally bring me back at like 11:15. I was like, in five more minutes, I'm going to have to push back the flight again. She brings me back. She is all business. Last time I was reading a book because I had to wait for her. She was like, what book are you reading? Should I read that? She was so nice to me. She was literally all business. Like, I don't have time for small talk.

• 13:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh.

• 13:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Got right down to it. And she did it very quickly. And then at one point I was like, trying to talk to her about the potential surgery. Cause she was like, I'll put a Band-Aid on it this time. But like, I really think we need to discuss the surgery and I want you to come back in in person. I don't want to do another Zoom meeting. And she was like, I want to talk to you about this. I started to ask her a question. She goes, we don't have time for that. Literally, she was like, we don't, just.

• 13:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Face down, ass up.

• 13:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not today.

• 13:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Face down, ass up. The shot of the lidocaine hurts so bad. She was like, wiggle your toes. That's the worst part. It's not the incision. It's like the shot in your ass of the numbing. And then I was done. And she was like, rest today. And I'm like, what I'm going to do is get on a flight.

• 13:38Rayna Greenberg?

  That's sort of rest.

• 13:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I had to come home. And again, this is the third time I've had to really deal with this. And I was like, I know that like, it's going to be a little bit of pain. I'm going to take some painkillers and I'm just going to be fine. But I had upgraded my flight and it was like, not that much more expensive to upgrade to Delta One. And I was like, also, I want to be comfortable and lay down. So when I was in the Delta One lounge, I was like, people probably think, look at this girl. Look at this baddie, not knowing I have gauze in my butt crack.

• 14:03Rayna Greenberg?

  You never know what people are going through.

• 14:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Delta One private security, Delta One private lounge, gauze in my butthole.

• 14:09Rayna Greenberg?

  You never know what struggles people are having, you know?

• 14:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Everybody has a story to tell.

• 14:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I made it and I'm fine. And I'm going to obviously discuss the surgery. Like, I'm not a person who's like, putting that off. I just, I'm going to listen to her recommendations. Last year was just not the year to do that. I had my gum graft last year. I had a lot going on.

• 14:32Rayna Greenberg?

  You did. And also like, what if you wanted to do anal for your wedding?

• 14:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. This, well, I mean, I probably would have been better off if I would have got the surgeries. But anyway, last time when I talked about this, I got so many messages from you guys. And so if you have this going on, my thoughts and prayers are always with you. And you always know you have the support of the lady with abscess who's been here since 10.

• 14:55Rayna Greenberg?

  I had an experience sort of like that, the gynecologist in LA. And I'd gone into, it was just, when I turned 40, I wanted like a panel of every single thing done, which I really recommend that you guys do when you turn 40. Go to the gynecologist, get blood work, get everything tested, get a mammogram, do everything. But I decided I wanted to change my IUD. So I'd come back in for a consultation. I waited for like 90 minutes. And the woman in that small room goes, IUD? And just points at me. And I was like, no. And she goes, you're not getting an IUD today? And I was like, no, I'm just here to talk about an IUD. She's like, are you sure you're not going to get it out? I was like, are we? Why are we doing this? Why are we yelling across this room?

• 15:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. I mean, when I left though, I, I was just so appreciative of them. Like, I thanked Joanna, who works at the front desk. I was like, thank you so much. I feel like she was like, okay, girl, just get out of here. But I was like, you didn't have to do this and you didn't have to care.

• 15:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, when people are kind for really no reason, just to improve your day, I'm always just like, man, that is so nice.

• 15:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  And like, I know those, that they're so busy. Like, I just really feel for all the doctors, all the nurses that are just like, I could feel the stress. And they still like, the fact that she was like, okay, what time's your flight? I'm like, this is not your problem. Like, I said that to her on the phone. I was like, listen, I got a flight at one. That's not your problem. Like, I was just like, this is my shit. But if I can get in today, I will. And like, I just feel like, it was just such a heartwarming experience.

• 16:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So Rayna Greenberg, you've been living in New York now as we record for like, a little, like a month-ish. We've been gone some time.

• 16:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 16:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Now that this will air, it will have been even longer. But how are you feeling?

• 16:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm feeling mostly great. I'm mostly really happy. I said to you yesterday, I check in myself all the time. Like, was this a good idea? I'm really happy. Being away from you and doing the podcast without you has been harder than I expected it to be.

• 16:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Rayna Greenberg?

  And I didn't, I was never under the expectation that like, it would just be easy. But like, we know a lot of people that do it remotely, like Paige and Hannah are always on Zoom and the girls from The Toast. They, they're with their husbands and their kids in different states. And Stassi Schroeder, who we just had on the show, and Taylor Strucker. Like, we know all these girls that like, do it separately. And I still love doing the podcast with you no matter what. It's just, it's not the same when I'm not in the same room as you. So that's, that's been the biggest change for me and the biggest surprise. I was just like, we'll do it remotely and it'll be okay. And we obviously are going to like bend over backwards, make sure you guys can have us in the same room as much as humanly possible. But that's been the hardest and the biggest, I guess, surprise?

• 17:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause I just thought like, so many people do this professionally, not in the same room. Like, we'll be fine. And we are, but it's just a little less fun to like, not be together.

• 17:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Rayna Greenberg?

  So I don't want to start with negativity.

• 17:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I mean, I feel the same way. I, I don't know. We did do it during COVID, but it's like, we were forced into it. We had to, it was a different time. But we didn't start this podcast to be virtual. We would only do a couple a year. And, you know, I think it's people, it was kind of funny when people are like, what's going to happen to the podcast? I'm like, we've done virtual. If you guys have been around, you know that we have done it. But it really was fewer and far between. So like, when we did the full episode on Monday, a couple of weeks ago, a month or so ago at this point, we're like, we don't, this isn't fun for us. Like, we, we hope we're coming across, we're having fun talking.

• 18:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I know. I thought, I do want to talk about the positives of living here.

• 18:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, no, of course. But just the podcast, you know, if you, we'll, we'll figure this out. And again, I feel like the snack, it's just like, we've all, we've done more virtual the snack. But like, we want to try to work this out as much as possible and we're going to see what it looks like going forward. But that has obviously been the hardest part of you moving too, because I've seen you a lot.

• 18:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Socially, we've been together a lot. Like, we were in Dewey, we were in Europe, obviously. And then as we're recording this, I will have just been in LA for a week. So we will have been together a lot. But yeah, it's just, it's a huge shift in my life. I mean, it's, I know somebody who's sort of breaking up with their partner of like 10 years. And I said, like, I don't know what it feels like to be with somebody that long because it's like losing a limb. And like, but that's how it is. Like, we've just never been apart before.

• 18:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 18:46Rayna Greenberg?

  So socially, again, I don't feel like that. But podcast wise, I just like, it's just a bummer to not be in the room every single time together.

• 18:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I think that we've been doing this for eight and a half years and. I don't know. We really just still enjoy it, obviously, but I guess I didn't realize how big a part of that was like being together and just chatting. Cause like, we've talked about so much, it's been eight and a half. I mean, you do anything for eight and a half years. A lot of people would never do anything this long. And so that's part of what keeps it fun.

• 19:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 19:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I think we're struggling with that a little bit. If we're just being honest with you guys, that like, that's, we wanna not do as many. While we live apart, the snack will be, cause it's timely, but when we can get ahead of episodes and guests and all that stuff, we're gonna try our best.

• 19:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. And also just the best part of my week is recording together. It always has been like, even when people are like, do you think you guys are gonna stop? Like every year somebody's like, how long can this keep going on? I'm like, forever. How dare you suggest that to me? Every once in a while, somebody will suggest like, you guys are like coming up on 10 years. I was like, uh, forever. That's how long it could go for. Okay. Have you ever heard of Howard Stern? I could be on this mic forever.

• 19:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Forever. Till we die. Till we Mitch McConnell out this bitch.

• 19:57Rayna Greenberg?

  So we'll figure it out. And like, we are making the effort to be in the same city as much as possible. Outside of that, I'm really happy. There's some things that I knew I would love. Like Saturday, I was telling you, like, the reason why I moved here is just socially, I just wasn't loving it in LA. And I was just alone all the time. And Saturday morning, one of our girlfriends texted me, went for a walk with her, went to brunch. Another one of our girlfriends said like, I'm having a bad day. I was like, great. I'll meet up with you. I went for a walk with her. And then a third one of our girlfriends like came over to my place that night and had wine. And I was like, every one of these plans came about within five minutes of the plan. Like, that's why I moved here, to be able to like, just do a lot of stuff with a lot of people. Went to this great book reading the other night. And I was in this room full of people and I was like, really surrounded by like some brilliant people. And I love that. The weather has

• 20:39Rayna Greenberg?

  been tough. Um, so that's always a trade off. The space is a huge trade off. I went from a three bedroom house with two outdoor spaces.

• 20:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 20:47Rayna Greenberg?

  To a one bedroom apartment, but I am, that's better than I thought it would be. I'm just, I'm in the apartment and I'm like, this is everything I could possibly need.

• 20:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  The apartment's beautiful.

• 20:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Thank you. Yeah. Um, it's everything I could possibly need. So there's trade offs to everything. There's good and bad. I mean, so many of our friends, the majority of our friends are here. And that's what I've like really craved. And also just attention from men is really different here for me. Like in LA, like a man just won't look at you.

• 21:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Rayna Greenberg?

  They will not give you the time of day. And here I just feel like I'm getting like chatted up every single day by a man.

• 21:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  The men in LA are so hot, but it's like, you can't talk to them. Like, it's almost like being at the zoo where you literally are like, oh my God, this like beautiful animal, but don't talk to them. They won't talk to you. Like, keep your distance. Like, it's truly like you're watching them from afar almost. Like, I'm never not amazed at the attractiveness of the, all the people in LA, but the guy, the height, the looks, they all look just fit and glowing and it's heavy stubble and the hair and the, oh my God, they're so hot. Okay. Anyway.

• 21:48Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, they, I always like joke, like a man in LA could be drowning and you could be like, I'll throw you a life raft and they will just die to not talk to you.

• 21:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  They'd be like, I don't have a job. I have nothing to live for.

• 22:02Rayna Greenberg?

  But like here, I feel like I'm getting like, I've been going to this restaurant a lot for breakfast and like, two times this week, a man sat next to me at the bar with his book and like, chatted me up, asked me what I was reading. And I was like, oh, men talk to you. That's really lovely.

• 22:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was just on the subway on the way here and this woman started performing like they do. She really had her music and she was going. And this guy like caught my eye, like gave me a look, like connecting over this lady doing, like he like locked eyes with me and like, I mean, I, I don't know. Like if we were both single, would we have like kind of gotten off the train and talked about that? Like, you know, let her cook kind of thing. Like he made, he wanted to share a like moment with me. And I was like, oh my goodness.

• 22:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Hasn't happened in so many years. So for all those reasons, I'm thrilled. It's the right place for me. I'm closer to my family, just time zone wise. I'm closer to your family, time zone wise. Um, truly the only deficit in my life is you. Um, and like, I joke before, like, you know, it's like an electoral college. It's like you are one person, but you have more votes. So that's the only bad thing in my life, being here is I'm not with you day to day. And yeah, um, if I hang out with my, like our friends without you, I feel like I'm like committing treason, but.

• 23:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cheating on me.

• 23:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Other than that, I mean, it's, it's good. It's where I'm meant to be. And you know, I got so many messages from our, our listeners being like, you know, you inspired me to move this and that. And this was an easy move for me. It was just sort of like a lateral move. We have a life built in here. We have work built in here. So it wasn't so brave to just come back to where I always was.

• 23:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Rayna Greenberg?

  But, um, for the most part, I love it and I feel like you're tipping.

• 23:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know what to do, you guys. I, I'm just, I want to be honest. It's a real struggle. I am like really struggling with the decision and Shashank can go either way too.

• 23:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  So like, there's no one really, like honestly, if he just got like a new job, that would be great.

• 23:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 23:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, I would be like, okay, let's go, you know, but he can kind of do a few different things. Like we both could go either way. And so, and we both see the positives and negatives. It's like, I'm struggling with it so much. And then I'm like upset at myself that I can't figure it out too. And obviously I want to be here with you. I really love coming to this studio. I love all of our friends here. The weather is a big part of it. I, I, I mean, I really think it's hard to live in LA for an extended period of time, which is now over three and a half years and get used to that and just not have it anymore. And New York has gotten worse. I actually think if I could be guaranteed to come back to the New York I lived in three years ago, I'd be sold. Like the winters

• 24:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  are worse and the summers are worse. And it's so much rainier. It's a subtropical climate. Like, I don't want to shit on it, but it's tough when the weather is bad. And then it's also like, you have to walk around a lot and it's harder life anyway. So you add the weather on top of it. It's just become a little bit more difficult to live here, but I would be moving here with a partner.

• 24:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 24:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  And that would, that would help with manual labor and the dog and all the things. Downgrading the space. Like, I just feel like I fall in love more with our house in LA every day. And I love like the restaurants we go to and the weekend trips, going to Montecito. Like it feels like a dream. I really want to have both. I mean, this is so many people's struggle. If you really do genuinely love both in your heart of any cities, but New York and LA, I mean.

• 25:25Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, I validate it. The weather is like a huge effect on my life. I said to Jeremy the other day, I was like, so this is just it? We never get good weather here? Like it's a thousand degrees humidity here, or it's two degrees, but either way, we're just gonna fight for our lives. Like, I've been taking my walks really in the morning, like at eight in the morning. And then like in the evening, I'll take my walks, but like, it's pretty unpleasant.

• 25:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 25:44Rayna Greenberg?

  And it's, I mean, New York is just hard. It's just a hard life.

• 25:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hard. Like, I'm trying to decide if I want the hard. I'm trying to decide what I want my life to look like. I am, I'm trying to decide what my next career move is. I mean, in addition to the podcast, of course, but like, I'm just feel like I'm, I'm really at a crossroads and trying to really do what's like true to me and what I want. And again, with like you being the driving force and this podcast.

• 26:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, it's interesting.

• 26:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we will figure it out, probably. But I wanted to share this, someone just texted me, like a friend I had drinks with last night, who was like, you should just do it. Just move here.

• 26:22Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so funny.

• 26:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  She was like, just do it. And, um, she just texted me like, I swear the smoke usually isn't this bad.

• 26:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I've never seen it.

• 26:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  As we're here now, we're dealing with like wildfire smoke from Canada. It's like hazy and it's just funny that she just texted me.

• 26:34Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, the smoke's never like this.

• 26:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, exactly. Like I, I lived here, but it has gotten worse because the climate change is real.

• 26:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Also like living with a partner is not the same. Like I really, I was panicked. When I was packing, I had like a hundred and 81 boxes come here. And some of those were like, I had a lampshade and a box. I mean, a lot of stuff was like that, but like, yeah, I was fucking panic stricken moving here, being like, I don't know what to do with all this stuff.

• 26:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 26:58Rayna Greenberg?

  And I'm by myself.

• 26:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. So it's tough. Like I'm seeing some apartments and I'll share an anecdote about what happened at one. And I'm like, in this space, like really trying to picture it, think of how we would do it, like fit everything. Um, but this apartment that I saw is really great. It feels like it would be the one. It actually feels like the closest thing to our LA house in terms of like the outdoor space, the parking. I've never seen parking, parking garage in the building. You have to pay for the spot, but it's right there.

• 27:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. It's nice.

• 27:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I bet it was 30 seconds door to car.

• 27:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, and if you guys don't know, like parking, like for example, in my building, I don't have a car here. Parking's $900 for a spot per month in my building.

• 27:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  There is, okay. So.

• 27:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, but it's 900. Who the fuck could afford that?

• 27:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  This spot, $4.25?

• 27:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Insane.

• 27:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Insane. That's Brooklyn.

• 27:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, that's, but that's Brooklyn, baby.

• 27:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  A lot of money, but that's obviously parking your car for $4.25 a month. Sounds like a lot of money, but not here. It's not. It's like free here. Randy keeps joking that I've been explaining Brooklyn to her, but you know. So I just want to share one thing. This lady showed me this apartment. She was super kind. She'd been like checking in on me. They actually lowered the price. She messaged me about it. And she just was like really responsive and really nice. They aren't always like, sometimes these people like won't even write, write you back, you know? It can be really hard, by the way. That can be really hard and really discouraging and like heartbreaking, like apartment search. But this one's been on the market, you know? And I was really patient. She spent lots of time with me, showed me all the buildings, amenities, all the things, whatever. And I'd seen most of the apartment and I hadn't told her what

• 28:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  I did for work, but I told her I was self-employed and I didn't tell her anything that Shashank did. I just mentioned my husband. And we're standing in the kitchen and about to kind of like wrap up the, the tour. And she was like, so the application process is like pretty easy. This is a rental building. You're not renting from like an owner or whatever. And she was like, so would it be you and your husband? And then I, I hear her go, or would we just do? And I'm like, surely she's gonna say, or would it just be you on the application?

• 28:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Right. Obviously.

• 28:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  And she goes, or we should probably just have your husband do it because you're self-employed.

• 29:02Rayna Greenberg?

  2026, can your husband sign for you?

• 29:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not in New York City, 2026. Also, you're not, no offense, you're not 25. You look like an adult.

• 29:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, well. Part of me was just like insulted, but the other part of me was like, am I giving trophy wife? Am I giving lady of leisure?

• 29:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 29:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Walked here with a big budget to look for an apartment for my husband.

• 29:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Am I giving 25? She's just seems so like light and airy. She couldn't possibly have a job.

• 29:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Here I thought I was stomping around 43 years old, looking like a boss lady.

• 29:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Nope.

• 29:45Rayna Greenberg?

  And she thinks that my husband needs to sign for me.

• 29:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's like this little girly. She just seems unburdened by jobs in HR departments.

• 29:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Didn't hate it.

• 29:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Honestly, I only saw this through a negative lens and now I'm kind of insulted that people assume that I work for myself. It's like when I don't get carded, I'm like, ah, hello.

• 30:07Rayna Greenberg?

  That's what this was.

• 30:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hello, do you not want to card me? They're like, no, you're fine. I'm like, no, do it. Card me.

• 30:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, I'm a trophy wife.

• 30:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  What were you wearing?

• 30:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I was really casual. I'm sure if I'd been in a power suit in 96 degrees, but I was in a jean skirt and flip flops like everyone else.

• 30:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just, I found this so shocking because first of all, in New York City, everybody works. It's, you don't meet a lot of people. I don't come across, it's not LA. I don't come a lot across a lot of people. They're just like, girlies that don't work. And more than half the people that I know work for themselves. They're content creators, they're podcasters, like, and yes, you obviously like run up against something kind of crazy. So, I mean, the way that you and I get paid is a little crazy.

• 30:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we have to get like a letter from our business manager that proves we have the money. I mean, they can also, they'll go your bank statements too.

• 30:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 30:55Rayna Greenberg?

  But just having money in your bank like doesn't really mean anything. They need to see that you have, um, what's the word for it? Like that you will be, that you will be employed for a while.

• 31:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 31:05Rayna Greenberg?

  So like the last apartment I applied.

• 31:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Child's security.

• 31:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, the last apartment I applied for, they needed our agents from WME to submit something saying you and I had a tour coming up. Our business managers, like I needed a lot. It wasn't just like have money in the bank and you can't pay a year ahead because of your squatters rights. So like that won't matter.

• 31:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Don't do that anyway. It was no leverage. I've heard people, even one of our friends was like, I offered to pay in advance. I was like, never do that. Cause then you have no leverage. Cause I withheld my rent years ago because all the stuff was going wrong with the building. But yeah, I mean, it's because people will make a bunch of money off something and rent an apartment they can't afford. And then in like it's six months to a year, they can't afford it anymore. I mean, that happens and that's what they're trying to prevent. But I just thought it was crazy because you're right. To your point about the age, I really do think if I look like I was in my twenties, it's a little more understandable, but women in their twenties are also ballin'.

• 31:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Printing money.

• 31:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  But it just was like, it would have made a little more sense, but I was surprised because I think I give off like an authoritative vibe.

• 32:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, Ashley, obviously.

• 32:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  And she was out here, should we wait for your husband?

• 32:06Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't think anybody's like, Rain is the boss. I don't think anybody thinks that.

• 32:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I'm like, no, I literally was like, I've never had people think this about me that I would be, because we have, I'm thinking of a friend who has a rich husband, who doesn't work, who I can see her vetting places. She has a great eye. She decorates their homes. She would go first and then be like, he's going to come.

• 32:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Of course.

• 32:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cause Shonka is going to come tomorrow and see it. So I could see, like, that's what she thought was happening here?

• 32:38Rayna Greenberg?

  You're just so tall and authoritative. It's just like, I, I feel like this woman meets people all day, every day. Also, she's like, I know people and if I know one thing, this girl is unemployed.

• 32:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Your husband do it. It's like, oh.

• 32:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Cutie. I don't even need him to see this place, okay? He needs to apologize to me.

• 33:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Well, that's, that's the update you guys will, you know, keep you along in the journey.

• 33:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. The next few episodes you guys watch will be based in LA, also at our Dear Media studios.

• 33:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is a Dear Media production, you guys, if you didn't know.

• 33:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, okay. Speaking of Jamaica.

• 33:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's so stupid. Zbiotics is gonna have like an ad campaign in Jamaica next.

• 33:28Rayna Greenberg?

  You guys, Zbiotics, if you want to send me to Jamaica, so it's summertime, you're traveling more, partying more, obviously more activities. And that means more drinking. So you gotta make sure that you have a good, good nights tonight lead to good days tomorrow. Zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. So here's how it works when you drink. Alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night and drink responsibly and you'll feel at your best tomorrow.

• 34:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, honestly, like when I drank, I've just, it's gotten worse and worse as I've gotten older, just the fogginess, my inability to bounce back. And like, I don't want days like that. I would rather just not drink at all. And honestly, I'm not willing to give that up either. So, uh, looks like Zbiotics is the drink for me. Um, wedding season, bachelors, rooftop birthdays, August doesn't slow down and neither do you. Pre-alcohol keeps it that way. zibiotics.com/gge, code GGE for 15% off.

• 34:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And I am telling you guys about whatnot. We are so obsessed with this. This is a great way to get deals on some of the highest end brand stuff that maybe you couldn't or wouldn't want to pay full price for. And it's like, there's a social aspect to it too. It's just the most fun way to shop on this app. So it is the number one live shopping app in the US. Shopping happens in real time with real people, real conversations, incredible deals. Okay. So you might see a bag or a pair of pants, a sweater, sunglasses, and you can connect with the seller and other shoppers and chat with them about it. Like we were saying, like sometimes you just, it's like, you want to see the thing in real life. You're going to spend a bunch of money on it. And so you really get to see it up close and personal and you're going to never pay full price.

• 35:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  So shop name brands, everything from Prada to Gucci, Coach, Kate Spade, whatever you guys want across makeup, perfume, clothes, handbags, jewelry and more, all without the retail sticker shock. And there's sellers with great taste going live 24/7. I mean, listen, this is so fun to shop and spend money, but it's also just fun to be on. Like it's just a fun experience. Just check it out. You can comment in real time. They will show you a close up of the clothes. I just love this so, so much. They'll explain the sizing, answer any questions you may have. And then if you have clothes, bags or accessories, say in your closet, if you're moving to a smaller space, maybe you can become a seller. Whatnot is going to make it easy to turn those items into cash, connect with shoppers who share your style and have fun going live while doing it. And a great way to discover new brands. So, you know, of course we all know the, the big names, but you can find stuff that

• 36:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  other people might not have. We always say it's so fun to like have stuff that not everyone has on the streets. You look different. You stand out. So you guys can download whatnot today and get $20 off and free shipping on your first purchase. Search whatnot, W H A T N O T in the app store, sign up and start finding the best deal on the products you love with $20 off and free shipping on your first purchase.

• 36:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And you guys know, I always say it's the thing that is the most important to me, truly in the whole world is a good night's sleep, feeling good when I wake up, feeling rested and the best way that I do that is my Helix mattress. So when I am traveling, I just like miss it so much. I cannot wait to get back to my bed. And my whole bed is outfitted by Helix, by the way. It is also the pillows and the mattress topper. And I just absolutely love everything they do. And they have tons of stuff to choose from on Helix. So if you go to their website, they have over 20 mattress models that you can choose from. So you'll go to their site, you'll take a quiz that just takes like two seconds and you will talk about if you sleep heavy, if you sleep on your back, your side, your front, do you sleep next to somebody, people that are kind of big and tall. So if you're like a bigger person, uh, they will recommend mattresses for you. So we like the Moonlight Luxe,

• 37:06Rayna Greenberg?

  but there's tons to choose from and really nothing is more important to me. Um, than I just like love to get into bed at the end of the night. It's such a treat. And people always like rave about staying at our houses too. Ashley has it her place, her parents' place. We gift these to people.

• 37:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  So much.

• 37:20Rayna Greenberg?

  And Helix has free shipping and seamless delivery, 120 night sleep trial and a lifetime limited warranty. The happy Helix guarantee. So they have seamless returns and exchanges. I don't think you're ever going to exchange this, but if you need to.

• 37:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Never heard of an exchange.

• 37:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Crazy.

• 37:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or a return.

• 37:35Rayna Greenberg?

  And it's award winning. So, um, it is the most awarded mattress brand that there is. So right now you can get 20% off site wide. Go to helixsleep.com/gge for 20% off site wide.

• 37:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So let's get into our topic, relationship ruts.

• 37:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm excited about this topic. This is really like an outline. I felt like I had the most like pleasure doing it in a long time. Cause you and I have done a lot of episodes about like, should I stay or should I go? And like, where's the line? And am I just bored? Is this relationship over?

• 38:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Break up with him.

• 38:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Should I break up with him? And like, we've done so much of that, but like, we really haven't done like. A rut. Like, I'm just, I don't want to leave this relationship. I still love this person. I don't feel like I'm out on this person. And like, how normal is this? And like, how do you sense it? And how do you come back from it? So I was really excited to do this and poll you guys. And per usual, you just all delivered. And we got tens of thousands of responses about this. And it was really beautiful. So thank you for sharing your relationship stories.

• 38:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And we asked you guys what topics you wanted to hear on upcoming episodes. And we are taking them all in mind. A lot of like, health stuff. And but it's interesting to see how the topics have changed as we have gotten a hold of her. You know, you had the same thought too. I mean, I don't know, eight years ago, it would have been like dating apps and blowjobs. And of course, we're still going to talk about all that stuff too. But it feels like our audience has really grown up with us. And it's less dating, meeting men in the wild, which that's still is important.

• 39:05Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll still hold it down, you guys.

• 39:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, but it's like, long-term relationships, like, how to keep the spark alive? And that's why we did an episode a few months back about how often couples are really having sex. Because I think people are wondering, am I normal? Is our relationship on the rocks? And am I supposed to feel this way? And are other people feeling this way?

• 39:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Lot more stuff with kids, I saw. You know, I was really glad that we had Stassi on a couple of weeks ago. And she just is pretty honest about motherhood and what she feels like doing and not doing. And a lot of requests for perimenopause type of episodes. So we will focus on wellness, health, things like that. Like, we hear you guys. We want to do it. So we will.

• 39:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And the guests you guys recommended, we just, we don't put those types of question slides up for no reason. We really do take it all to heart.

• 39:46Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just that everybody's out of town this summer. And I'm really sick of it.

• 39:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  People fucked off this summer.

• 39:51Rayna Greenberg?

  So crazy.

• 39:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so.

• 39:53Rayna Greenberg?

  We made a lot of promises for the fall, though. I'm out, we're out to like 25 people. And everybody's like, I'll do it in September. I'm like, god damn it.

• 40:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So this could be your last solo. You guys, enjoy it.

• 40:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, you guys do like the solos. That's actually probably the number one piece of feedback is more solos.

• 40:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, I know. I just find this really interesting. I mean, I think that you just hear all the time, marriages are hard. Marriages are such hard work. Like, marriages are so hard. Marriage is so, so hard. It's torture. It's a death sentence. But it's worth it. But I love him. And I just, I think I used to have kids. I don't know, like.

• 40:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I like to say that long-term relationships can be challenging, are challenging. I like to use that language because it should mean that you're up for the challenge, as opposed to like, these are so hard. Sure, that's not, not true. It's marriages are hard, kids, all the whole, all the things. But I just think in general, like, the longer relationships go on, the more challenging they can be. And they can really ebb and flow. And I would think if you talk to any couple, 10, 20, 30, 40 plus years married, they would tell you about times when they almost got divorced. I was listening to this couples therapist we're going to have on. He was on Liz Moody's podcast. He's wonderful. His name is Zach. And I listened to the whole episode he did with Liz. And then she introduced us. And we're going to have him on.

• 41:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  And he cited three times in his marriage with his wife, where they discussed breaking up. And that's not everybody's story. But I've talked to my mom about this and times that were really close to that point. I think everyone has this story. So it's really normal. And some people don't. Some, and some people are like, divorce is not an option. But a lot of couples, long-term, are like, we almost didn't make it past this thing.

• 41:39Rayna Greenberg?

  The thing, I mean, you and I have like a front receipt at the moment because this is our age. But like, a lot of our friends have their first child. And so many people in my life have said to me, like, this has been the worst test on our marriage. Like, we can't leave the house after 6:30 PM. There's no like, checking in with each other, deep conversations. It's just like, we got to put our heads down and get through this. And so many of my girlfriends have just been like, I have the best husband in the world, but I look at him and I'm like, I hate you. I fucking hate you. What are you good for? Like, it's such a test. And, you know, when you segue from spontaneous desire with a partner, which just means like, they walk into a room and you are fucking on site, to responsive desire, which is like, it needs a little bit more. And couples, you know, it's just, it's monotonous.

• 42:20Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, that you've had sex with somebody probably hundreds of times. It gets, it gets boring. You're coming home to the house that you both share. You're not traveling or going long distance as much. And this is just so normal. There's no couple that has been together, even several years, that won't just tell you, I just, life got in the way. I got into a rut, you know? And the difference for me, and like, we'll go through this, between like, is this over? Or is this a rut? Is like, are you committed to working on it? Is this the person you want to be with? Are you both committed to working on it? Because we asked people, like, what were the signs? And no one said, I fell out of love. I didn't, I hated this person. It was sort of just like, even I don't want to be around this person. I think you can push past that if you, if you want to.

• 43:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 43:01Rayna Greenberg?

  You don't have to. Sometimes it is just over.

• 43:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. Yeah. So you, people really do fall out of love. I feel like we fell out of love is like, did your parents say that when they sat you down about the divorce?

• 43:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh, my mom was just like, I, we fell in love with each other. And we love you. I don't, but, you know, your dad does.

• 43:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  I knew someone was coming. I watched you look down and think of the tag and real talk.

• 43:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I wrote this tag. And I was like, what did I say? My parents were like, this has nothing to do with how much we love you. Well, your mom, it does. But not me, your dad. My dad was like, not me. I will always love you. Probably. My mom's like, I will raise you, but I will not like you. Just so that we're clear.

• 43:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, oh, but did they say we fell out of love? It's just, when I hear we fell out of love, I picture two parents sitting their kids down and telling them we got divorced.

• 43:47Rayna Greenberg?

  So I was four, and I don't know that you, I don't know that you'd introduce that concept to a four-year-old. I just, I think maybe like a 10-year-old.

• 43:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that's true. Okay, you're right, you're right.

• 43:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I think I was too young. And I don't know that my parents were ever like, super in love with each other, to be completely honest. I think that they, I mean, I'm not trying to like, really put them on blast. But my parents were married to other people before they married each other. I think they met at a time where like, made sense. Everybody was having kids. They were both Jewish and lived in a certain community. And it like, it made sense.

• 44:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys, it's very funny, because you were just their kid era. Like, they had other marriages. But they had two kids together. Like, you don't have a half-brother. Like, they came together, made two children, and were like.

• 44:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Just got out. And they married other people. They were just like, bye.

• 44:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  And they've been married before that. Like, it's very funny. Like, the middle marriage, they were like, we should do the kid thing.

• 44:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Bye.

• 44:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just funny, because it's like, you would have thought with all those other marriages in the mix, like, you would have a half sibling. Or you do. No, you don't. You've step siblings. Sorry.

• 44:45Rayna Greenberg?

  I have three step siblings.

• 44:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's right, yeah.

• 44:46Rayna Greenberg?

  But I think that, you know, when you hear people say, like, I knew it was over, like, when you think about this ending, do you feel a huge weight off? Or can you not imagine your life without this person? And those are like, different feelings. And I think that, you know, a lot of people are pretty clear, whether you'll admit it to yourself or not, if you've outgrown this marriage.

• 45:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Or if you just need to change or find things outside of the marriage to make you happy. And your parents have always been so great at that, of having like, separate lives.

• 45:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 45:11Rayna Greenberg?

  And they come home and they have something to talk about.

• 45:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think that's their secret. Their hardest point was recently, my mom said the first year of marriage was really hard on them.

• 45:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh.

• 45:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Her dad died. And I just don't know, like, I mean, I think my parents really support each other. But I don't know if, like, it was maybe the, my dad knew how to support her in that time. And then when my dad's brother died, I think that was really hard too. I think my dad is just a boomer who is not that emotional. I mean, I think he's a great father and husband, but he's not super emotional and in touch. And I think he can be a little closed off. And so I think the, like, the losses they had in the marriage were tough on both of them. But they obviously got through it.

• 46:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, I just want to tell you, because when you realist this, you will hear this. You said the first year of marriage was hard. And I said, was that when you were born? And I didn't mean because of you. I meant, did they have a child right away?

• 46:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I was like, she's going to hear this.

• 46:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sorry. I hate when I don't catch stuff.

• 46:15Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, but I meant like, did they have a child in their first year of marriage?

• 46:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  No. Okay. My parents actually, I feel like we're a little bit ahead of their time in that they waited four years.

• 46:25Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, mine were seven. My parents waited seven years.

• 46:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's crazy.

• 46:28Rayna Greenberg?

  I know. Well, they, my mom got pregnant three times and lost the baby.

• 46:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, right. Yeah. But still, like, I think my parents got married at like, late twenties, 27-ish maybe. And then my mom didn't have me till like, 31. It was at least three years.

• 46:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, that's a lot.

• 46:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  That they were without kids and just enjoying being newlyweds. Minus that first year, I guess. But recently, my dad's health, it, well.

• 46:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, my parents are aging. My dad just turned 75, but his hip and he got a hip replacement, as you guys all know, if you've been around and he's doing great, but it was what two years where he needed one and he was procrastinating and he was in chronic pain and then he's drinking more and it's, I'd hate to say he takes it out on my mom. It just, she's the person there around the clock and he's frustrated and he feels he had such a loss of identity. I mean, it was everything bad outside of like a chronic diagnosis, you know, like in terms of just like him not being able to work on the farm, him not being able to ski, like do all the things that make him happy. And I think she, she talked to me about it a little bit. I mean, she likes to tread lightly,

• 47:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  like I'm her kid, but I'm her friend too, and how hard it was. And I don't know how much longer they could have endured it. Like if my dad just never got the hip replacement and just was like, I'm just gonna live like this forever. I hate to even say it makes me want to cry to think about. I mean, because my parents are just on this pedestal of marriage, I mean, 40 plus years and he got it done. And I think it's improved a lot, but even being around them in those, that year or two, like I could feel some contempt and just feel like they weren't joking around and didn't enjoy each other, especially they're mad at each other.

• 48:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. And I mean, how could you, I mean, I was always like, okay, with your dad, like, how could you think about anything else if you're in chronic pain, but your mom's still a person, she still exists. And I actually wonder if you bucketed it out, if the three worst times kind of in people's marriages, or like the rut times where you're, when you first have kids, when your kids first go away, like when the kids leave the house. Cause I think that you can really ride on logistics for a lot of years. Like the who's picking up who and who's walking the dog and like, what are our kids doing? You could ride that out for a lot of years.

• 48:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then it depends on what kind of kids you have, but then are your kids playing sports or going to college? And then you just have so much to focus on. And then there's nothing.

• 48:44Rayna Greenberg?

  And then nothing. And I wonder if like, that's the second bucket. And the third is this late stage in life where like somebody's sick or not getting well. And you're like, I didn't, I remember like my mom saying about my stepdad getting sick. She said, I didn't sign up for this. And I was like, you quite literally signed up for this. You signed a marriage certificate. You literally, physically signed up for this. But I think that when, what she meant was like, you know, when I, when you marry somebody, you don't think like, oh, I'm gonna have to like physically take care of this person. They're not going to be the same person I married physically. It changes who they are. And it's an unkind thing to say, but I do think some people have that thought.

• 49:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it's an interesting thing to say. Also getting married later in life, like you might say that in your twenties, you know, but you still always are. That's truly it.

• 49:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, if you want it to last forever, you're signing up to change the, what is it? Colostomy bags?

• 49:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 49:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Something like that. But I think also we're talking about like longer parent age marriages, but you see divorces at 30. A lot. And those are, you got married early twenties and then, you know, a lot of people, I mean, you get married 22, you have your Saturn returns 27 is five years down the road. And then things could shift for you then, if you're into that woo woo stuff, which I really do believe in, like just a shift in your life at 27 and questioning, what's my purpose? And what am I doing? And then it could affect your marriage if you don't grow in the same direction. And then you're divorced by 30. We see it all the time.

• 50:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I've known a lot of people that were together for like eight, nine, 10 years and got married and then got divorced within one year. You know, like four people that did that. But like you do, it's like 30 isn't middle age, obviously like 40, 40 is his middle age, but I'm, I think so, 45? But I think a lot of people at 40 have that crisis moment where like, is this it? But like 30, I also understand being like, oh no, what did I sign up for?

• 50:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Because 30 is, I think you really figure out what you're about. And you are really not the same person you were in your twenties and also in your, your forties, of course.

• 50:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, so we, so we asked you guys, you know, just based on your relationships, like have you been in a rut? What do the symptoms look like? What were the causes? And then what were the solutions? And obviously we peppered in like, you know, a breakup versus a rut. And I think we kind of covered that. But I think the main question is like, trying to figure out if it's worth like staying in. And I feel like these happen when the relationships feel monotonous and more like a routine than a relationship. And monotony can be healthy. It can mean security and stability, but it could also be a breeding ground for boredom and a disconnect, like an emotional disconnection with your partner. Yeah. I mean, we saw this bucketed out into a lot of different things. I mean, we said, you

• 51:37Rayna Greenberg?

  know, how did you start to know that you were in a rut? And this was just a huge like landscape of what people were feeling. And, you know, one thing that came up again and again and again was contempt. Just, I feel a lot of contempt for this. I'm angry all the time. And I do think we can back up and like, you know, address each thing, but that came up a lot. And the idea of just monotony just came up so much. We just do the same thing over and over and over again.

• 52:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  But that's what's, you can fix. And we'll like talk about that today. But if you guys know, I mean, the Gottmans are probably the most famous relationship therapist that there are. And you've probably heard this before, that the four horsemen in a relationship to kind of predict that it's going to end are criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. And that's not to say if all those four things are happening in your relationship, you can't work it out, but those are signs.

• 52:32Rayna Greenberg?

  The hardest thing for me is resentment and contempt to get past. Like so many other things came up that we'll, we'll talk about, but just sort of just apathy overall, like just a total lack of wanting to share or hear about your partner. Like I do think those things can be fixed. Feeling monotony, feeling like our whole life is about logistics. There's so much that can be fixed. Resentment and contempt is, it's tough because you're just like, I mean, unless it's the early stages of like having children and you're just like, I'm just gonna, life is hard. I'm going to be mad at the person that did this to me and it's you.

• 52:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And I mean, that can take, obviously communication with your partner, therapy in some cases, inner work. Like I think about my mom and I mean, the problem got solved, but is she kind of pissed that you treated her like a certain type of way for a year or two? You know, like that is really can build up, you know, like were you down and out with your job and took it out on me for a fucking year? You know, like that stuff really can build up where you maybe feel like someone stole some months or years of your life dealing with their own shit and you bearing the brunt of it. And then it gets fixed. You get a new hip or you get a new job or you make more

• 53:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  money. But you're resentful of the way it was before because that wasn't fair.

• 53:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. I think you have to go to therapy and talk about that stuff. I mean, we'll get into like the solutions, but I mean, the number one thing that every single person says is like, this sucks. You have to communicate. You just have to talk about it. Like go to therapy. If you can't afford therapy, obviously there's other solutions and tools, but like this stuff sucks. And you just carrying that resentment and the contempt around with you, it, it's just like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. Like it's just gonna seep into everything. A lot of people said, you know, I just felt emotionally withdrawn, whether it was, you know, from wanting to ask them about their day or share about my day. And I think that can also, you know, you evaluate, am I just unhappy with myself? Do I not want to share what's going on with me? Is, I've dated people that my professional success just made them unhappy. It's not that I

• 54:27Rayna Greenberg?

  don't think that they were happy for me. It's just it held up candle up to their non-success. And that's really hard. Some other stuff that came up a lot is just a loss of connection overall. And just feeling like, you know, things have gone stagnant, lots of logistical talk.

• 54:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm looking for escapes constantly. I mean, I realized that in a past relationship that I had that was toxic, that I really wanted to get out of town, to like get out of the toxic cycle and just get away from him.

• 54:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. This came up time and time again from you guys also, that I didn't want to be alone with them. I just, I was constantly looking for reasons to have friends over, even if we didn't have plans. I got excited when they were leaving and I got sad when they came back. Like this came up time and time and time again, like not even caring what they do in their free time, as long as I didn't have to participate in it.

• 55:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh my gosh. Yeah.

• 55:17Rayna Greenberg?

  This came up a lot. A lot of just general agitation over even mundane stuff. Like I'm just annoyed all the time. Like somebody could breathe and you're like, I'll kill you.

• 55:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, right.

• 55:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we asked you guys, we were just out of curiosity, long-term couples who have experienced a relationship rut, when did this first happen? And I mean, we'll give you the results, but it's tough to say. My goal in wanting to ask this question was like, I want to talk to couples who have been together 10 plus years, at least, and when did this happen? But 41% of people said within two or three years, 24% said three to four years, 18% said four to five years, and then 18% said six plus years. But these could be coming from couples who are just together two or three years and have been through a rut. But I still just want to validate it, that these things can happen early. You can qualify a rut, anything you want to qualify it. Some people had sex every day, twice a day, and now you're just not anymore because the honeymoon phase is over.

• 56:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're not necessarily in a rut, it's just, you've kind of settled into life. I mean, the honeymoon phase will end for most people, especially if you have children, especially if you've had a long-distance relationship and you move in together. Like, life just becomes monotonous. And you can have somebody that thrills you every day and excites you, but that's not really real life. Stable relationships are boring. It's on you to make them exciting. If you really are stable and healthy and you don't have much of conflict and drama and toxicity, that's quote-unquote boring. You have to do the things that like make you guys both excited. It's on you.

• 56:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. So, I mean, I guess it depends what your bar is for like a rut. Like, are you going to be thrilled over the moon, pussy dripping, to jump all over each other? Every single weekend is a crazy thing that you've never done before, experienced before? You're doing date nights three days a week? Like, that's gonna end.

• 57:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 57:05Rayna Greenberg?

  For most people. Kudos to you guys, if that's not the case for you. But it will end for most people. There's nobody that's been with somebody for a substantial amount of time that isn't like, yeah, we went through some times, it sucked and I hate them.

• 57:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally, totally. And then we asked you guys what you feel like is the biggest contributor. I mean, just life, obviously, kids, work, moving in together, money, like Rain had mentioned before, just things just feel logistical, you feel like routine, or roommates as opposed to romantic partners and all the things. Complacency?

• 57:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Complacency came up, I mean, these are the first three you said, they came up over and over and over again. Complacency, just really feeling like you just come home every day and do the same thing and, you know, just a lot of monotony. And it's like, well, we come home from work and we're both on our phones. Phones came up so much that I come home and we're just on our phones. And like, we don't make dinner together, we don't ever put the phones down, like, one of us walks the dog, the other one doesn't. It's just, you know, you get into this routine of like, who's gonna walk the dog? What's the scheduling? Who do we have plans with? And you forget that you're like, you should always date each other.

• 58:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  You've gotta stop doing all this. And I do it too. We get into this thing, like, I'm like, okay, I will check myself of like, we have had too many nights where now in a row, where we've gotten into bed and scrolled. This is not sexy. And we realize that. I mean, we've gotten to points where we're like, our life just feels kind of like we don't have a lot going on, social plans, and we do a lot. And we always make sure to have a date night, at least like once a week. And we, yeah, we travel, we do all the things. But it's just like, it's been a lot of nights where we're just like, we're cooking dinner, we're watching TV, and that's on me too. Like, I think actually Shashank would be happy with doing that every night, but I want to do more and get out and be social and things like that. But we both agree that we want to make a shift or make a change, or you have to be aligned with it.

• 58:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, if you were like, I really hate that all we do is sit around and scroll and they don't care, that's tough.

• 58:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, then you're really misaligned about how you want to set your lives. Not every day can be the craziest day of your life, but I saw this couple that, and I do want to like, obviously this is positive and I don't want to get into solutions, but she said, once a month, one of us, we take turns just planning something like crazy, just like a crazy date night that's outside of the realm of what we normally do. And to me, that feels attainable. Once a month, I have this thing to look forward to because the average person does not have the money to be running around all the time. And you work in the morning, you can't just be like going crazy, but to come home and make dinner separately and sit on your phones and not talk to each other, I mean, life is long.

• 59:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know how I feel about dinner. You know, we have a dinner theory.

• 59:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Very important.

• 59:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're not planning dinner together, what are you doing?

• 59:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Literally, what are you doing?

• 59:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, I think you should have a date night once a week if you can, and that doesn't mean go out to an expensive restaurant. That can be going out to somewhere cheap, I mean, there's so many cheap options, or even just going out and getting a beer at a dive bar, or cooking at home, like, really setting that aside. I, I think it should be once a week. But also, you might be busy and you can't do it, and that's okay too. Like, you shouldn't feel pressure in your relationship to keep up with some sort of schedule. I think you should try for once a week at least, you look forward to it.

• 1:00:05Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, once a week also, and somebody suggested this in like solutions, somebody just said like, our date nights are at home, but like, we commit to not being on the phone.

• 1:00:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:00:14Rayna Greenberg?

  We watch something we wouldn't normally watch, we try to like really catch up about each other's weeks. I also saw somebody say, our date nights are Monday mornings, we just start our week off.

• 1:00:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that.

• 1:00:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, with breakfast, we go to breakfast somewhere and just like spend one hour just us, not on the phone. Like, I never thought about that, you could do morning date nights. I thought that was really cute, to just kick your week off like that.

• 1:00:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, Shashank and I try once a week to both get up and have a coffee before he goes to work. Like, it doesn't always work out like that. Sometimes he goes in a little bit earlier, or I need to sleep later, but we really at least try to have like coffee together one morning. It's nice. Also, I want to say, like, I know this stuff is harder with kids, you guys, so just, you know.

• 1:00:49Rayna Greenberg?

  We validate that. I think something that came up a lot, and this, this feels like more of a pervasive issue, is just feeling unseen, unappreciated. Like, I think we all want to be told, no matter how long we've been with somebody, you look beautiful today, I appreciate this thing you did, this dinner you cooked is amazing, how was your day today? I'm excited to see you later. And it's so natural, after being with somebody for so many years, you just forget to say that stuff and like, think to yourself, like, they know that I appreciate them. But like, how many girlfriends of ours have just said, like, they don't ever tell me I look nice? Like, they don't say thank you?

• 1:01:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:20Rayna Greenberg?

  It's, I don't know, that's when I think that people start looking elsewhere for attention.

• 1:01:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, like, how you answer the phone when they call. I mean, how you greet them. Like, I always am like, I want to always make sure I get up when Shashank comes home from work and walks in the door and give him a kiss, as opposed to sitting on the couch and being on my computer or being on my phone and like, just looking up. Like, I want to physically get up and greet him. That's not that hard.

• 1:01:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I think it's impactful.

• 1:01:50Rayna Greenberg?

  No, it's impactful. I think people just start to feel like, I'm a piece of furniture in this house.

• 1:01:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:54Rayna Greenberg?

  And nobody acknowledges me, especially when you become a mom. I think people are just like, I'm mom, I have to cook for everybody, I have to do everybody's laundry, I have to clean, like, can somebody just tell me how appreciated I am, you know?

• 1:02:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and I think someone might be hearing that and they're gonna be like, we've been married for 20 years, I'm not getting up when he walks in. But it's like, yeah, but think about the couple that still does that after 20 years, those are the ones that we're trying to be like. You know, like, those are the couples that you're like, oh my gosh, she goes and greets him when he walks in the door, they've been together for 20 years, it's like, that's who you want to be like, so why not do it every fucking day?

• 1:02:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, I agree. And, you know, when we did this episode, I actually don't think I even put this in the slides and we did the polls, we wanted to remove sex. Like, a sexual rut is different than a rut, and I don't think we actually put that in the verbiage, and I was surprised because it didn't come up that much. Like, when people said ruts, it was lack of intimacy, but not lack of sex really. And a lot of people said, like, just, it started to be a lack of intimacy, holding my hand, wanting to spend time with me. Obviously, sex dissipates over time. And so, it didn't come up as much, or saying the only time I felt connected to them was during sex. And I've had relationships like that before too, where you're just like, I don't feel like you like love me ever, except for when we're having sex. But intimacy came up a lot, and I think that that's another thing that is just a little bit of an easier fix.

• 1:03:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, just put your arm around somebody, kiss them, things like that, you know? People, I just, I have a nuanced view of cheating and I never think it's okay, but I do understand how people start to look for attention elsewhere after a long time. We all want to feel attractive and valuable.

• 1:03:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and you really need to make time for the intimacy, I mean, and the sex, but start with intimacy. We talked about this recently on an episode with our favorite professor, Dr. Nicole McNichols, You Could Be Having Better Sex, that was on March 23rd. And schedule sex, sure, we've talked about this so many different times in this podcast about scheduling sex, and a lot of people said that's what they do. But even just the scheduling of the intimacy, that could probably lead to sex. I feel like that's how my relationship works. Like, when we spend time, phones are away, TV is off, we're sitting on the couch, maybe we're having a glass of wine and a beer, or even not, but we're really just spending that time with just each other.

• 1:04:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  It usually leads to sex, or at least we feel more connected. And sex is important. Like, I mean, we've been together three years now plus, and been married obviously since last November, and just, obviously, we don't have sex as much. We, we live together, we're super busy, and so it's just, I have to always be like, we, this is important. And you feel so much more connected afterwards, we do, you know? So, we talked about it before, like, if you are that once-a-week couple, really try to do it. And really try to do it the day that works best, if it's a Sunday afternoon. That couples therapist I mentioned that we had on, he, I think him and his wife have sex Wednesday and Sunday, I think that's, we all have one, we'll talk about it, and like, is, or was he talking about another couple? I don't want to misquote him, but it was like, one, one day is for her and one's for

• 1:04:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  him. And again, they both enjoy it, but it's like, they kind of, it's more what she wants on the Wednesday and what he wants on the Sunday. It was something like that. But you don't have to have appointments and calendar invites, but really just the time with the phones away, the TV off, just the two of you, being physically close. Can lead to sex or not, but at least you'll feel more connected.

• 1:05:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, but you know, just in general, like, you know, we asked you guys, like, how did you know it was just a rut? And a lot of people just said, you know, we both wanted to work. We both wanted to go to therapy. I knew it wasn't their personality. It was just circumstances.

• 1:05:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think that's a huge one.

• 1:05:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, absolutely.

• 1:05:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, is it them or is it the circumstances?

• 1:05:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I wanted to fix it. I didn't feel indifferent. I mean, we all know that feeling of like, I don't care. Fix it or don't. It doesn't matter. Like, it felt like temporary uncomfortability as opposed to like, I didn't care if it worked. We both felt like it was the end and couldn't say it. I feel like a huge weight off when I think about not being in this relationship again. And I think just to validate this, everybody goes through this. Everybody, like, there is a way back from most of these things, except for when you're just like, I don't like them and I'm a worse version of myself because of this person. And there's plenty of reasons to leave.

• 1:06:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:04Rayna Greenberg?

  For those that want to stay.

• 1:06:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I put together six questions to ask yourself.

• 1:06:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:06:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then I also put together three high, medium, and low budget slash effort ways.

• 1:06:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:06:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  To.

• 1:06:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, give me your questions.

• 1:06:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. The first question, we've said it, but just to reiterate it, do you feel a sense of relief when you think about not being with them? We do this with everything. If it, to take a job, go on a trip, do you actually think about not being with them? Do you feel a sense of relief? Instead of sadness, anxiety, whatever the other negative emotions are, is the primary feeling relief? That's, that's a tell. Okay. Do you often think there is someone better out there for you? Or something isn't right here and it's persistent? Cause I feel like we all have doubts from time to time. Like, we have crazy thoughts, but is it that nagging feeling? And when are you feeling it? Because I have darker thoughts when it's not sunny out. I have darker thoughts when I'm tired, when I've been drinking a lot, like the state of the world when I'm overwhelmed with work.

• 1:07:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, when you are your version of happy, the sun is shining, you're feeling good, and you still feel that way. That's a tell.

• 1:07:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 1:07:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:07:10Rayna Greenberg?

  These are great.

• 1:07:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Three, picture your life without them and how do you feel? Hot take. But true, picture it. Sit down, close your eyes and visualize it. And then on that same note, think about something really bad happening. Think about the death of a parent, think about something, your dog gets sick, like really the worst thing, like that, like bad, bad thing. Death, sickness, and would you want them by your side as your primary person? And I say primary person, I think that's important. Like, that's a person you're gonna live with, but you don't have to. You know, of course, you can, you don't have to cohabitate, but you're gonna sign up to be with them forever if that's what you want, is, is marriage? Like, are they the person you'd want by your side? I think it is so huge. Have you grown in the same direction?

• 1:07:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Are you equally as evolved as humans? Or have you stopped being able to relate to each other? And I think that's what we see a lot with that, when you get married in your twenties and you just don't grow in the same direction. Like, are you just bickering? You don't feel the same way? You don't have the same value system anymore? And you feel like you've left them behind?

• 1:08:09Rayna Greenberg?

  You just kind of coexist. And we see this all the time when you get married really young. I mean, just, we don't have the same hobbies. We don't like the same stuff. One person likes to drink a lot more than the other person. We think about money differently, you know?

• 1:08:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  The, when we have Zach on, the couples therapist, the, one of the three times when they were considering breaking up was about drinking. So he stopped drinking first and then she hadn't stopped. And it was like, kind of surrounding that. It's very fascinating. I want to talk to him about it. And then lastly, do you genuinely enjoy their company?

• 1:08:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Eighty percent of the time, seventy percent of the time?

• 1:08:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is that ever gonna be a hundred? But like, more than half of the time? Or would you rather be alone or with your friends? And this goes back to like, wanting to leave and never wanting to be alone with them. Like, what do you think? Eighty, seventy-five?

• 1:08:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  In that range.

• 1:08:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I think you don't want to feel this like deep level of contempt all the time and annoyance. And I think that like, to tag on to your questions, if nothing changed for the next five years, would you be happy?

• 1:09:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, is this the kind of person you want to sign up to be with for a really long time? And I think, you know, there's little tweaks that you can make in terms of communication. Therapy does wonders for people. But like, if they really didn't change as a person, would you want to stay?

• 1:09:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and I think sex drive can come and go, and that's why I didn't include it. I think that you can feel like you do not want to fuck this person and you can still love them and you can want to stay with them in a healthy relationship. And it'll change over time and hormones are a factor. And so we kind of just remove that. You go really long time, you don't want to fuck them? Okay, we can discuss it. But it's just like, I don't think when you're like, I don't have sex with them right now, that's like the hugest red flag in the world.

• 1:09:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Not to me. I mean, also, sex drive is a massive spectrum. Like, how much you want to have sex, how often you want to have sex. Do you have kids? I mean, I can't tell you how many people, like, when we've done episodes about kids, that said, like, I had kids and I didn't want to be to touch me. I'm always being touched all the time. If my partner touches me, I like flinch.

• 1:09:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, you've got like kids sucking on your nipples. You're like, don't touch them. Okay.

• 1:10:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, so I guess the big question is like, you know, what helps? And obviously, the number one thing that everybody said is therapy, but not everybody can just go to a couples therapy and has the time for it. And honest communication and blah, blah, blah. But, you know, one of the things, we've talked to Esther Perel about this. We've talked to just our friends in relationship, and we've talked to Liz Moody about this, is just this novelty effect. And, you know, we found that couples that do new and slightly challenging activities together, they report greater relationship satisfaction. So I want to talk about couples that do things outside of the relationship and together. But people that just try to pick up something new, even once a month, like, you don't have to do extreme sports, like mountain biking or rock climbing. And certainly, plenty of you said that you did do this, but like, just like, say, I want to learn how to cook Indian food and do that together tonight.

• 1:10:44Rayna Greenberg?

  And just these really small things, just, it brings the newness back. I think that the thing that we love about new relationships is just like the drive and the excitement. And unfortunately, you are never gonna get that back after a certain period of time. And so you have to create ways to find novelty. And so maybe that's, maybe that's a trip, maybe that's cooking a new dish. Maybe it's going to a different farmer's market. Maybe it's picking a different day of the week to do something. Just take a road trip. I mean, you live in LA, there's a hundred places you could be at in ninety minutes, or New York too. Go to the Hudson Valley, take a train, just like spend the afternoon somewhere. And that will inject some excitement into your life. And also, finding things for yourself to be happy about. So if you can find some new friends to hang out with, new activities, new interests, new hobbies.

• 1:11:26Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, Esther Perle talked on our show that like, one of the things that people report that when they love their partner the most is watching them do something outside of themselves. And it's a problem if you only want to do something outside, but having the opportunity to come home and talk to your partner about something you learned or did today that they weren't a part of is so exciting.

• 1:11:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  And hopefully, they're happy for you. And if they're not, that's a red flag too. You know, again, that's, that growth. Like, if you were trying to improve your life and do new things and pick up new hobbies and make new friends and excel at your career and make more money, whatever it may be, and they just aren't, that could be their personal rut too. And that doesn't mean the relationship is over. But that's when we talk about growing in different directions, because you should be able to do those things and come home and tell them about it and vice versa. And that should strengthen the relationship.

• 1:12:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, and to find ways to have little like, micro connections with your partner. And outside of just like, who's taking the kids to school today? Or like, who do we have plans with next week? Or what does my family need us to do for the holidays? Like, just these little things, like, inside jokes and ways to be like silly with each other and make fun of each other. And just these like tiny things where like, you always say like, you know, I don't, Saturday mornings or Sunday mornings, you go to the farmer's market, you go to the same Italian place.

• 1:12:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Farmer's market. And just, and that's a routine thing, but we look forward to it every week. And it's like, a great, I don't know, it's like, I love that too. I love new novelty excitement. But then you're this, having this cornerstone of the relationship that for us is every Saturday morning, the farmer's market.

• 1:12:49Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just, if you can say like, that's our thing, that's our thing, you know? If you can find it, like, that's really nice to be like, we're that couple.

• 1:12:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  And the characters, like, we talked at the farmer's market, you know, like the coffee lady and the pasta guy and the guy with no shoes sitting on the ground. Like, yes, you have those characters in that part of your life too.

• 1:13:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, my brother always makes up lyrics to songs and just sings them to my sister-in-law. It's very funny. He just like makes up alternate, like, that's their thing.

• 1:13:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Rayna Greenberg?

  He makes up alternate lyrics to songs and she just giggles. And they're just, they're silly together. And they've been together fifteen, sixteen years at this point. Like, they're just silly with each other.

• 1:13:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and becoming more interesting too. This is something that Tinks talks about a lot, is reading an article. So you have something discussed at a dinner party or with your friend, but with your partner, both read an article and discuss it. And if they don't want to, weird. It is, like, I love talking about current events with Shashank. Like, it's one of the hottest things. You know, he tells me things I may not know about and I share the same, and he might know a little bit more about this topic and I know more. Like, I like learning new things through him and discussing and understanding more of what he thinks, how his brain works, all that stuff. That stuff is hot too, and that can be done on the couch. It doesn't cost a dime.

• 1:13:57Rayna Greenberg?

  And if you're both like that, that's what's important. I think some people feel like they don't want to grow at all. But, um, so self-expansion theory, people often feel most alive in relationships when they feel like they're still growing. So learning, traveling, changing careers, meeting new people, taking risks. And I love that you said it doesn't cost anything.

• 1:14:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Read an article outside of something that you don't normally read about and then tell your partner about it. Discuss their thoughts and feelings. I'd like to know what you think about this.

• 1:14:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, it's hot. So I just came up with, these are not hot takes, guys, don't get excited. But just like, low, medium, high budget slash effort of ways to bring this novelty into your life. And stuff that sustains you, like, stuff you talk about for days, weeks, years to come. So obviously, low is watching a show together. Like, picking a show, making it your show, phones away. When Pop Culture Jeopardy was on, also Shashank's family was on the show. But like, we watched Pop Culture Jeopardy. They put out an episode every day, like, it was live on Netflix. Like, every night, sometimes I'd get a glass of wine or he would have a beer. We'd be so excited. We'd miss those days so much.

• 1:14:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, cause that's an interactive show too. Like, that was our show. We miss it every day. And again, his cousins were on it and they were honestly the stars of the show. But right now, we're doing Widows Bay. And it's just fun. Like, it's a little scary. And then we have our jokes about the show, like. Shonk's like the fog, you know, like if you guys have watched it, you know, you know, but this is dated now at this point, but um, we probably finished it, but like coming, doing the show, that's the cheapest way. The medium is the activity you've never done. And that can really just be trying a new cuisine, a restaurant, maybe taking a little road trip to a restaurant that's farther out in a different neighborhood. But whatever it is, if it's the cooking class, or it's the rock climbing, or the hike, like whatever it is, like something new that you both haven't done together.

• 1:15:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Or it even can be walking around a new neighborhood and then high budget effort is the trip. And it can be a weekend trip, like you mentioned, or it can be a trip, trip. I mean, to experience another country and culture with your partner is so exciting, so much novelty, so hot. And gives you content and things to discuss and experiences that last.

• 1:16:01Rayna Greenberg?

  I just think like anything food based, any adventure, like if you want to sort of be up the middle in terms of price, like in LA, you can go to Boyle Heights and eat the best Mexican food, like you can go to Thai Town, Koreatown, like explore new areas of your city and just have like a new experience with somebody. In New York, obviously you can go to, go to Queens and Brooklyn, and there's a million different cuisines that you can experience. And we asked our audience, also, I love what you wrote, um, we asked our audience what they do, and here's something that like blew my mind, and I actually love this idea so much. We just said like, an unexpected thing that kept our relationship fun is blank, finish this sentence.

• 1:16:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:16:35Rayna Greenberg?

  And somebody said, hire a house cleaner.

• 1:16:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yep.

• 1:16:37Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, so I was at this talk the other night about people's sexual relationships and um, somebody asked the person that, the speaker, like what turns you on the most? And she was like, well, my husband cleans the house. And like, she said it as a joke and the rest of them was like, yes, girl, but like, that's a real thing. We talked about Shambadram, chore play, like, like when you walk into the house and it is just messy, like nothing is more agitating to me and less sexy. So hire a house cleaner.

• 1:17:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we have also talked about this for years of just taking it off your plate if you can afford it. And again, someone's got to do the dishes and clean the kitchen after you eat and things like that. But like, we have, our house cleaner comes every two weeks. I don't want to clean, I don't, I mean, I tidy up. I'm very tidy and I really love a really clean house, but I don't want to do it and I don't want to talk about who's going to do it. And again, not everybody can afford that, but ours is 200 bucks every two weeks. And that $400 is so well spent for us not to have to be, A, be in a clean house all the time. And B, not have to worry or argue about who's to clean and what.

• 1:17:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, it's just, I think it just puts you in a nice environment. Now you're ready to have fun.

• 1:17:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Now you're ready to like make fun of each other. I mean, get a dog, just a shared responsibility, you know? Video games came up kind of a bit, which really made me laugh, taking weed gummies and playing video games. It's our friends Alyssa.

• 1:17:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  We were friends, this was the wedding we went to in Cabo recently, Alyssa Amoroso and her husband Sean. We found out pretty long into the relationship, they were gamers. I did not see it coming.

• 1:18:10Rayna Greenberg?

  And she's, I mean, I don't want to be like, she looks like she'd be high maintenance, but she looks like she'd be a little more high maintenance.

• 1:18:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's a chic fashion girl.

• 1:18:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  And he's a doctor.

• 1:18:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Video games.

• 1:18:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's crazy. She's like an influencer fashion person. He's a doctor. That's their secret life is gaming.

• 1:18:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, you know what Shashank used to do a lot in the beginning of the relationship? And I was like, that's okay, is um, sending somebody's surprise snacks.

• 1:18:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Or just bring home surprise snacks, leave little notes around the house for somebody.

• 1:18:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, cards.

• 1:18:38Rayna Greenberg?

  I have partners that would just like hide notes that just said like, I love you or have a good day. They slip it in your bag, slip it in your like suitcase when you go to town. Like, man, you feel so noticed and remembered by somebody.

• 1:18:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  It means the world. Bring them home their favorite snack. It's a dollar. It's Doritos. Oh my God, like, hey, guys, if you're listening, you go to the gas station, which you should be going to the gas station, filling up a car. I shouldn't ever be pumping gas. I'm a married woman, but like, get her favorite snack. Why not?

• 1:19:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, just these tiny little touches.

• 1:19:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Cheap, tiny things.

• 1:19:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, a note's free, do a note, just remember to flirt with each other and that kind of stuff and just tell somebody to look nice, dancing in the kitchen.

• 1:19:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  In the kitchen. We have a thing around the house that's like dancy, there's a little sound effect, it's going to be, this is our secret, private life. But we do it when I'm like in my like darkest times and it like, I'm laughing by the end of it. Like he knows how to bring me out of like the darkest times. I've had like, some things happen recently. I'll probably talk about them on this podcast, maybe like next week or the week after. I've had a loss and just, you know, also questioning my life decisions and things like that, but like the really hard stuff. A couple of things have happened this year, like he comes home and I'm like, I mean, I got up and I kiss him, but I'm like despondent sometimes. And like, he knows how to bring me out of it. And he's like, he's cracked the code.

• 1:19:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I haven't even cracked the code. Sometimes I'm just like, I'm just gonna let her cook.

• 1:20:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just gonna let her cry. Doing molly and going to raves. Is that Jenny and Micah?

• 1:20:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, I, a lot of people said, we just started doing different types of drugs, different type of sexual positions, discussing our sexual fantasies. Like, I do think it's important to not write sex off. You can do whatever you want, but like, I know so many people just say like, I don't feel like having sex with them anymore. It's a chore and that's fine. You can do whatever you want in your relationship. But I do encourage people to not write sex off completely. Orgasms are important for your mental health, for your physical health.

• 1:20:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Feeling connected to your partner sexually and don't write somebody off that like they couldn't possibly handle it. Because I've seen couples do that and split up and I just, I always think like, what if, like, what if you had just said like, I have these sexual fantasies, I'd like to try them. What's the harm? Like, they're going to think you're a crazy person. No, they're not, you know? And I know these are really hard and it's much easier said than done, but don't just write off sex, you know? If you really feel like you've just hit the end, like try sex toys. Ashlyn and I have a great line of sex toys called Vibes Only. Go to vibesonly.com. We have flavored oral gels, we have lube, we have all kinds of couples toys, we have handcuffs, I mean, a lot of fun stuff for you guys. We have a sex pillow.

• 1:21:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, oh yeah, the sex pillow, that'll do it.

• 1:21:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Incorporate something, but don't totally write it off because it's fun. And I feel like couples that I know that like go for a long time without having sex, always say like, man, when we do it, I'm like, why don't we do this?

• 1:21:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  I always say that. Yeah, I'm like, oh, we gotta be doing this more often. I have thought, we've been busy, but I have thought maybe when things settle down to be like, Shashank, we're having sex every day this week, just to, just to see.

• 1:21:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh.

• 1:21:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Let's just see.

• 1:21:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Let's just say.

• 1:21:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, I, I would like couples to try, maybe you guys are already doing that. We are not doing that. We don't have sex every day. Like we had sex multiple times a day when we were long distance, but those are short periods of time. But we are not a couple, big reveal, that have sex every day or even three times a week. We have sex once or twice a week.

• 1:21:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Crazy amount of time.

• 1:21:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've just thought about this, like, okay, what if we are like every day this week? Let's just see. I wonder what it would do.

• 1:22:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I think, I think I'm gonna do it. I think some sex, I think sex begats more sex.

• 1:22:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:22:08Rayna Greenberg?

  And like, once you just start like getting the juices flowing.

• 1:22:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I think this is an experiment. I'd love you guys to try and leave a comment publicly or message me privately, like babe, this week, Monday to Sunday, every day, we're going to find the time. We're going to do it, maybe do it in different places or just every night in the bed missionary, just see what happens.

• 1:22:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I love that.

• 1:22:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want to know the results. Um, but I really do want to circle back to getting a dog because if you have the resources and the time to care for a pet. Again, I wouldn't get a pet if you really think you're going to break up, but I really think it's so fun to have a pet around the house. The voices and the nicknames you have for them and taking care of something together. Again, though, but if someone, if you break up, then make sure you have it in place of who's going to take the dog.

• 1:22:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  I did just want to end with this one email because I do really think it's like a good one. We asked you guys for email submissions and stories of like a point where you were like, is this over? And it wasn't. And we just got one that we really liked and spoke to us and she's younger, so we'll speak to some of our younger audiences. Okay, so she writes in, my current fiance and I have been together for over eight years. We met in college and about two years in, we hit a rut. He's a year older, so after graduation, I moved to his city, joined his gym and spent most of my time with his friends. Somewhere along the way, I realized so much of my identity had become wrapped up in him. About a year after college, I had this overwhelming urge to find myself. I convinced myself our relationship was stagnant and that he was holding me back from becoming the ambitious best version of myself. I wondered if we were only together because we had such a strong connection early on. It was comfortable and the sex was good.

• 1:23:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  After months of debating whether to leave, I realized finding myself wasn't something I was going to do by ending a relationship. It was something I had to do by building my own life. I stopped making it about him and started making it about me. I spent years listening to this podcast hosted by two hilarious girls who felt like my big sisters. And I decided to actually take their advice. I joined Bumble BFF, picked up new hobbies and became less dependent on him. I created a life for myself, one where if he suddenly left tomorrow, it wouldn't feel completely empty. I'm turning 30 in January and I still don't think I've completely quote unquote, found myself, but I'm proud of the life I built. My fiance is no longer the center of it. He's incredible addition to it. I don't believe in soulmates or finding each other in every lifetime. I roll. I kind of like that quote.

• 1:24:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  I believe we're two independent people who love each other, work hard at our relationship and are lucky enough to share our lives together. Now, when one of us feels a rut creeping in, we say, I'm in a funk, talk through it, apologize if needed, and then go do something we enjoy together. Like walking to the dog park and picking out which one is the cutest. Perfect. I think ruts are a normal part of long-term relationships, just like the pressure to find yourself in your twenties. As the queen Samantha Jones said, it all comes down to whether you're spending more time smiling than frowning. With my fiance, I'm absolutely smiling more often than not. That's such a great email. And I just want to circle back to Isabel Klee, who we had on recently, and you can read the full story in her book. She shared it on the podcast as well. But when you're reading that book, you are shocked they break up.

• 1:24:49Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 1:24:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I had read the book halfway and we had her on and I kind of liked hearing the story before I even read it. But when you read it even more, you're like, what the fuck? And you're like, these people, they're the love of each other's lives. And then she breaks up with him. And she really just had to find herself, go to therapy, work through all this stuff. And they are getting married and it's just, these stories are, they're inspiring and that's for you to figure out if it's over or it's a rut.

• 1:25:15Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I found this particularly inspiring because it took a turn I didn't expect. She was like, to fix my relationship, I fixed my own life. And through that, I realized I wanted to, I realized I wanted to be with him. And you don't hear that a lot. A lot of people are like, we fix us or I leave.

• 1:25:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:31Rayna Greenberg?

  And this girl was like, no, it turns out all I needed was like interest and hobbies and something outside of this. And it strengthened the core of my relationship.

• 1:25:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  She nailed it.

• 1:25:41Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I thought it was just so beautifully written and um, you know, message us, we'll come to your wedding.

• 1:25:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  One day we will go to an audience member's wedding.

• 1:25:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I mean, honestly, if we're not touring anymore, we should just be out here doing weddings.

• 1:25:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  I gotta finish a tour. Let's, we, let's make, we should do that and like make a show.

• 1:25:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Where we just surprise people at their weddings?

• 1:26:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, or we, doesn't, does that have to be a surprise or do we like officiate?

• 1:26:04Rayna Greenberg?

  We'll be like this, the Jewish Christian, go on to a wedding like that.

• 1:26:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, because you know we'd be centering ourselves. I'd be like, put, lift me in the chair.

• 1:26:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't think people would care. I think they'd be like, let them cook.

• 1:26:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, we'll come to your wedding, but we have to headline it.

• 1:26:18Rayna Greenberg?

  We do the center of attention.

• 1:26:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we're wearing white. Um, okay. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and us being back together. You can find us at girlsgottaeat.com, Girls Gotta Eat Podcast, Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Reina is Rayna greenberg, Rayna greenberg.com for fall tour tickets. The summer dates are done and dusted. And you can watch a full video on Spotify and YouTube. Share this episode with a friend. Let us know what you think. Leave a comment, subscribe on YouTube and we will see Thursday.

• 1:26:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Have a good week, guys.

• 1:26:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bye.