My Shopping Addiction Is Ruining my Marriage

On today’s episode, we hear about: - A woman struggling with a shopping addiction - A wife wondering if she should leave her husband - A woman dealing with a controlling fiancé Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Need to talk to someone? BetterHelp is virtual therapy when it’s convenient for you. Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. These are the BEST sheets and towels in the world. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Getting lots of spam calls? DeleteMe can clean up your online presence for you. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Find peace every day. Hallow is the simplest way to slow down and get your head right for the day. Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. I have Helix Midnight mattresses in EVERY bedroom in my house. Get 20% off when you visit Helix Sleep and take the sleep quiz to see what you need! I took Thorne supplements way before I worked at Ramsey. Stoked that we can work together now! Get 25% off for LIFE at Thorne. Head over to Poncho Outdoors to try the best outdoor performance shirt for yourself! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Since January, I've spent about $14,000 on shopping. Originally, I added up everything that I spent just to kind of give myself a shock of how much I've spent. And even after doing that, I go back to shopping again.

• 0:18Dr. John Delony?

  Who told Tia, when Tia was young, that she wasn't beautiful? Or she didn't look right?

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John Delone Show. Hope you're doing good.

• 0:36Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I really, really do. I hope you're doing well, and you've got a moment of clarity, a moment of peace. Maybe you're doing something important, or not important, or whatever, but I'm just super grateful that you're with us. Whether you're driving around, or mowing, or vacuuming, or cleaning something, or avoiding somebody, or sitting in a coffee shop, or wherever you happen to be consuming this, I'm just super grateful that you are with us. We're talking about your marriage, your mental, emotional health, struggles with addiction, whatever you've got going on, your kids, everything. That's what we talk about on this show, and I'm gonna sit with you, and we're gonna figure out what's your next right move. Let's go out to Salt Lake City and talk to Tia. What's up, Tia?

• 1:12Speaker 00

  Hi, how are you?

• 1:13Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing all right. How about you?

• 1:15Speaker 00

  I'm okay. Just feeling a little nervous.

• 1:18Dr. John Delony?

  It's all good, man. I'm not very good at this, so we'll both be nervous together.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:23Dr. John Delony?

  What's up?

• 1:24Speaker 00

  So, since January, I've spent about $14,000 on shopping. And because of that, I've just been carrying so much guilt. I've done everything that I can think of to stop shopping, whether it's like deleting the apps, deleting my card. I've been open with my husband about my spending habits. And originally, I added up everything that I spent just to kind of give myself a shock of how much I've spent. And even after doing that, I would still, after a week, I'd go back to shopping again.

• 1:57Speaker 00

  At the beginning, when we were doing our, like, paying off our debt, I was the one with the spreadsheets and with being so a stickler to our budget, and now I just can't seem to get back to that mindset. And I feel like I'm spiraling, and I just, I feel like I can't stop.

• 2:11Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's scary to feel out of control, like your body and your mind are on a roller coaster, right? And you can't get off, huh?

• 2:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:18Dr. John Delony?

  Well, um, so let's slap it up and flip it and reverse it. Is that cool? Can we come at this at a new angle?

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:26Dr. John Delony?

  All right, so what does...

• 2:29Dr. John Delony?

  Shopping. Let's ask this. What are you buying?

• 2:33Speaker 00

  I'm mainly buying clothes and jewelry.

• 2:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So this isn't like you're not prepping for something and buying extra freezers or?

• 2:41Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:42Dr. John Delony?

  Um, this is just like adornment stuff. So what does shopping for jewelry and for clothes? What does that get you? Cause it's helping you out in some way. What's it, what's it helping you with? What's it protecting you from?

• 2:56Speaker 00

  I think it's given me some confidence. I just feel good when I have like good clothes on and jewelry. And just I, for a long time, I mean, I recently, after having my daughter, I gained weight. And so I just wasn't feeling confident like I was before. Um, so after doing all of this, I feel more confident. But it just seems like I just can't stop.

• 3:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, we're past the confidence.

• 3:26Dr. John Delony?

  Take me to what you just said about you had a baby and you gained weight, which is what happens when you grow a human inside of you, right?

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:38Dr. John Delony?

  Um, take me before you had this baby to times you've struggled with how you look.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Um, I mean, I was very active. I had an active job. And then once I got married and moved, I quit that job so that I wasn't as active as I was before.

• 4:00Speaker 00

  I mean, I felt a lot, very much confident when I was more active.

• 4:09Dr. John Delony?

  Take me back to when you were a kid.

• 4:12Dr. John Delony?

  How was little girl Tia?

• 4:16Speaker 00

  She struggled with her weight and how she looked. Yeah.

• 4:21Dr. John Delony?

  Who told Tia, when Tia was young, that she wasn't beautiful or she didn't look right?

• 4:29Speaker 00

  My mom.

• 4:30Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  She would comment on my weight a lot. She would tell me that I was, she'd make snide remarks like, oh, don't eat bread or you're gonna get fat or,

• 4:45Speaker 00

  you should do sit-ups, look at your stomach.

• 4:48Dr. John Delony?

  Where was dad?

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Um, he was there. Um, I mean, I, I don't know if he knew that she was talking to me like that.

• 4:59Dr. John Delony?

  Could he not?

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Could he, could he not?

• 5:04Dr. John Delony?

  Could he not know?

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Um, that's a good question. I'm not sure.

• 5:12Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about a time your dad, y'all were driving in a car somewhere, or sitting at a coffee shop, or just doing stuff, and he looked over and said, "You're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen."

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's, he's done that. He's, yeah.

• 5:30Dr. John Delony?

  Tell, tell me about a time.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Um.

• 5:33Dr. John Delony?

  Like a, like a actual memory that pops into your mind when I ask that?

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, he told me how much he's proud of me, like.

• 5:44Dr. John Delony?

  That's not what I asked. That's not what I said.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, okay, yes.

• 5:47Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about a time he told you, "You're the most beautiful little girl in the whole world."

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Um, actually, I can't think of a time.

• 6:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I just can't think of any.

• 6:06Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes hurt is things people say to us, like a mom that's always telling her little daughter that she's too fat, or not pretty enough, the boys aren't gonna like you, or you shouldn't eat that, because, or you, you need to stop what you're doing and start exercising because I can see your belly. But sometimes hurt is also the things that weren't said to us, that should have been said to us.

• 6:33Dr. John Delony?

  And you got it from both sides, huh?

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:38Dr. John Delony?

  So, let's take weight off the table for a second. Tell me about your relationship with your mom growing up, as far back as you can remember.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Uh, we fought a lot.

• 6:49Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about it.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Um.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  She was harsh with me. Um, I'm more shy, quiet, and she would like,

• 7:01Speaker 02

  get on me if like I wasn't talking, or I was just sitting quietly, and she would, I don't know, kind of just nag at me for just being that way.

• 7:13Dr. John Delony?

  Are you still shy and quiet?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  A little bit.

• 7:19Dr. John Delony?

  You answered a little bit as though you're working on it. You're trying to be somebody that you're not, but...

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm trying to, I guess I'm trying to get out of that. Just because, maybe because that's what I was told that I shouldn't be.

• 7:34Dr. John Delony?

  What if the world needed a little bit more, a lot more people who were reflective and thoughtful and quiet?

• 7:45Dr. John Delony?

  And less judgmental?

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:52Dr. John Delony?

  What if I told you I want more people like your innate natural being walking around than people who are yelling at each other that you need to fix this and you're not good enough and you don't look right?

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:07Dr. John Delony?

  So, is this your first kid that you have?

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 8:11Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about her. Or him, I don't even, I just assumed it's a girl. Is it a girl?

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 8:17Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  She's, uh, she's spunky, she's outgoing, she, she's so friendly and happy and she's literally the best kid ever.

• 8:28Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, my kids are amazing, but I'll give you this one.

• 8:32Dr. John Delony?

  So, how far along into being a mom are you?

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Uh, she's 16 months.

• 8:39Dr. John Delony?

  16 months. Okay, if you were to describe how you are doing as a mom, like if you were to be sitting in, in the audience like Simon Cowell and judging you on a stage, what two or three or four words would you use to describe how you're doing as, as a mom?

• 9:03Dr. John Delony?

  Don't overthink it and don't judge your answer, just let it rip.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  Yes. I'm kind. I'm comforting.

• 9:12Dr. John Delony?

  Those are adjectives, I want you to give me performances. Like performance scores.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Like numbers?

• 9:21Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I mean, you just, just let it rip.

• 9:26Dr. John Delony?

  You just gave me personality traits or character traits. I want you to judge your performance as a mom so far.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  I, okay, I'm thinking too much. Um, there are times where I do, um, I guess, get overwhelmed and I do snap at her, but I, I always want to be there to comfort her when she's upset. Um.

• 9:54Dr. John Delony?

  I'm trying to get beneath, I'm trying to get beneath the qualifier voice.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:59Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:00Dr. John Delony?

  Let me ask it in a different way.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:03Dr. John Delony?

  Are you a good mom? Yes or no?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes.

• 10:08Dr. John Delony?

  Do you feel good in your role as a mom?

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:12Dr. John Delony?

  Think you're hitting it out of the park?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  No.

• 10:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 10:18Dr. John Delony?

  Is there any part of you that's scared that you are going to

• 10:25Dr. John Delony?

  treat your daughter like you were treated?

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:29Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Like I said, mine, sorry.

• 10:35Dr. John Delony?

  No, you're okay. Take a breath. You're good.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  My mom is like harsh.

• 10:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  So sometimes I feel myself being harsh with her and I know she, I mean, she's little. She doesn't understand, but

• 10:52Speaker 02

  yeah, I just, I don't, I just get frustrated with her.

• 10:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. You know why? Cause you're a human being and 16 months old are both beautiful and fun and they blow up everything. Your body, your marriage, your finances. They blow up everything, right?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:09Dr. John Delony?

  And yet you still have this mother over your shoulder with her arms crossed, judging everything you do.

• 11:17Dr. John Delony?

  You don't look right after being a mom. You're kind and compassionate and you're doing a good job, but you snap once and then mom's right there over your shoulder going, see, I told you.

• 11:29Dr. John Delony?

  And now in addition to telling you, you need to do more sit-ups and look more beautiful because your husband's going to leave you. Um, you're also not doing that right either. Fair?

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:43Dr. John Delony?

  So what if I told you, and I'm making something up here, right? What if I told you that maybe your spending is keeping you, is acting as a pretty good buffer? It's a way to distract yourself or numb out from that feeling of, I don't want this to happen again. And it's really painful to enter back into that relationship with this little girl.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's accurate.

• 12:10Dr. John Delony?

  And so blaming the spending, trying to white knuckle through spending, like, I'm gonna tell you, like, you gotta stop doing that, right? It's gonna, it's gonna cause all kind of pain in your marriage, and like, there's a math problem that you're creating. And at the end of the day, you know as well as I do, that this comes out in, shame comes out in a bunch of different ways. You might start hiding and your husband will be like, where's my wife? Or you'll snap at him, or he'll say, hey, we gotta stop, and you'll feel judged again, and you'll come after him, or you'll snap at this little girl. So we have to stop, we have to stop spending, but until we get to the root of, what is spending getting you?

• 12:50Dr. John Delony?

  What is just this constant search for, I need to be beautiful, I wanna feel good inside? What is that actually trying to protect you from? What are some things your husband has said to you?

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Nothing, I mean, he's, he's like the kindest, sweetest person ever.

• 13:11Dr. John Delony?

  He might be nice, but it's not kind to watch somebody that he loves, A, like, begin to erode the security, the financial security of a family, but also just constantly be in struggle and in pain, right?

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true.

• 13:26Dr. John Delony?

  He might be really nice and not wanna be non-confrontational, but sometimes that's not kind, right?

• 13:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah, he's very non-confrontational.

• 13:37Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. When's the last time he looked at you and said, my God, you're so beautiful?

• 13:44Speaker 02

  Um, I think it was on Sunday.

• 13:46Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so he's starting to change that narrative inside, right?

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:51Dr. John Delony?

  Or he may not be changing the narrative, he's trying.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, he is.

• 13:55Dr. John Delony?

  Or weirdly, he might just think you're beautiful, which is hard for you to internalize when you've got however many years of your mom telling you that you're not.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:06Dr. John Delony?

  And so some of this is gonna be you sitting down with your husband and saying, "Look,

• 14:11Dr. John Delony?

  I'm starting to hear my mom's voice again, judging me for how I'm parenting, how I look, how lovable I am, and I want you to walk alongside me and I'm gonna give you permission to begin to call out when you see me or experience me or hear me talking to myself in a way that's just simply not true."

• 14:36Dr. John Delony?

  Is your husband trustworthy in that way?

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:39Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 14:41Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing is, I want you to take the time, you've probably heard me say this a million times on this show, but I want you to write nine-year-old you a letter,

• 14:51Dr. John Delony?

  and say nine-year-olds are allowed to be pudgy, my god.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:57Dr. John Delony?

  Nine-year-olds aren't supposed to be doing sit-ups because their tummies are too big, they're supposed to be out running around playing, having fun. And then, to really change addictive action, you're gonna have to put some major breaks, some major hurdles in front of you. So you said you've cut up cards, you've deleted the apps, whatever, how do you end up going back to jewelry and clothing websites and things like that?

• 15:24Speaker 02

  I just download them again and put everything back, yeah.

• 15:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. What I want you to begin to do is two things. Number one, when you start to download everything, I want you to remember this conversation,

• 15:39Dr. John Delony?

  and I want you to, before, I'm gonna give you permission, pull them back out, pull your phone back out and, and download those apps, but before you do that, I want you to promise me and all the listeners that you're gonna exhale and take a deep breath and exhale three times.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:54Dr. John Delony?

  And that you will carry a small little journal with you in your purse or, in, wherever you find yourself downloading this stuff again.

• 16:03Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to write down what you are feeling in this particular moment. I don't feel beautiful right now. I feel bored right now. I feel scared right now. I don't feel lovable. I don't feel sexual anymore. Like whatever the things you're wrestling with, I want you to write those things down. Okay?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:21Dr. John Delony?

  And here's the second thing. I want to challenge you for 30 days to go caustic. You know what that means?

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Um, no.

• 16:30Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to go scorched earth.

• 16:34Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to

• 16:37Dr. John Delony?

  either turn your phone completely off and put it in a drawer for 30 days. I want you to challenge yourself to just not download apps for 30 days.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:49Dr. John Delony?

  And at the end of 30 days, if you want to download them again, download them again.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:56Dr. John Delony?

  And before you download them, I want you to do one more thing that's going to be really annoying. Okay?

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:02Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to get a picture of your mom. Do you have one in your house somewhere?

• 17:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I want you to get a picture out. I want you to look at her and say, Mom, I'm doing this for you.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:14Dr. John Delony?

  Cause deep down, I think you may have been right about some of the mean awful things you said to me.

• 17:21Dr. John Delony?

  And hopefully that puts the brakes on. I'm not doing, I'm not giving you that. I'm changing my family tree, not just financially, but I'm changing the way we talk to each other in this house.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:35Dr. John Delony?

  Can you do those things?

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yes, I can.

• 17:38Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So let's come up with a plan. Also hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with the EveryDollar app. It's the budgeting app that I use, that my friends and community use, that we use here at the, at the office. It's going to be, I'm going to give it to you for a year. It's the EveryDollar app and it links your purchases to your bank, but also to your husband. You know, can keep each other accountable. And if we get to a point in 45 days, 60 days where I've got to, I've got to take my name off. I got to disconnect this spinning app. Husband, I want you to change the online code to the bank. So I can't just like, we're going to put some major hurdles in front of us.

• 18:14Dr. John Delony?

  But I have a feeling that linking these things together is going to really help. And then going scorched earth for 30 days, just breaking this pattern. Anybody can white knuckle anything for 30 days.

• 18:25Dr. John Delony?

  Proud of you, Tia. This is one of those moments, you got a 16-month-old girl, and we talk about this, like, "I'm gonna change my family tree," and we try to grind through some stuff. This is about you making peace with... Man, you were treated like hell growing up. And I'll be damned if my daughter's gonna experience this too. And by the way, from the sounds of it, you're a great, great mom. It's an honor to get to talk to you. We come back, a woman asks how to begin leaving her husband with a gambling problem.

• 18:57Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:42Dr. John Delony?

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• 20:25Dr. John Delony?

  That's cozylearth.com/daloni and use code DALONI to save 40% off your entire purchase. Sleep cooler, lounge lighter, stay cozy.

• 20:37Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to a Harvard bar in Boston. That didn't sound right at all. Talk to Mary. What's up, Mary?

• 20:44Speaker 03

  Hi, how are you?

• 20:44Dr. John Delony?

  I'm great. How about you?

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Good, good. Um, I am calling, um, for some advice. Um, I've been married for 15 years. Um, and my husband has a severe gambling problem, um, which also includes him being extremely sneaky and lying a lot. Um, and he's really financially devastated us, um, destroyed my credit, and I'm just, I'm just tired of it, and I'm over it, and I need to know if I'm being irrational, wanting to get out of this marriage. And I also don't know how to move forward with doing it, uh, affordability-wise. It's, it's, um, a hard situation.

• 21:31Speaker 03

  We have a 10-year-old child with special needs. So, uh, I'm just kind of looking to see if I'm thinking I'm on the right track and making the right decision.

• 21:40Dr. John Delony?

  Um, no. I mean, you have a partner who's making you incredibly unsafe in a bunch of different ways.

• 21:50Dr. John Delony?

  And so that, that's that. Again, I take a broad view of fidelity, right?

• 21:55Speaker 03

  Um, and that, that is not being a person of fidelity.

• 21:59Dr. John Delony?

  That's a person who is refusing to get help for a pretty traumatic, um, traumatic traumas, used, overused, I think, but, uh, a devastating, as you said, to use your words, devastating, um, struggle with addiction that is not just a personal thing. He's destroying you, he's destroying the path ahead for your special needs kid, he's destroying all, you know, the trust, all that stuff. So, no, I don't think you're crazy at all. I don't think you're crazy at all. I do think this is the, the scary reality that women in your situation face often, is, um, there's a math problem to solve here, right?

• 22:36Speaker 03

  Right, that's my biggest hurdle, is the math problem. The little that I do get for contribution from him...

• 22:44Dr. John Delony?

  Wait, wait, what does that mean? What does that mean?

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Well, it means, I mean, I pay the majority. I pay our rent. Um, I pay my own bills, my car, my own car payment, my own, you know, any credit card bills and

• 22:55Dr. John Delony?

  So you're already on your own?

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Right, but he does pay for, you know, our weekly food shopping and pays our utilities and I wouldn't be able to sustain all of that, um, on my own income and, and we're still behind in utilities because half of his paycheck every week disappears to, I don't know, he has a new story every week and obviously I know where it's going, um, but the little help I do get, I just can't do it all on my own without, I financially can't do it all.

• 23:28Dr. John Delony?

  Sure. So I, I think it's, this is me, I'm just gonna talk to you just direct. Normally I would, I would talk to you for a lot longer, get some more context here, but I'm gonna be pretty direct, is that cool?

• 23:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 23:40Dr. John Delony?

  The, the thought of, I'm out, like, I'm over it, I'm done, right? Um, there's a sense that I'm gonna separate from this and get on with my life, I just need to figure out this $500 gap or this $700 gap. Whenever you leave a 15-year marriage, you have to understand, I'm leveling the ground of the life I know.

• 24:05Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean? That means for the safety of me and my child, we may have to go to a one-bedroom apartment for the next four years. We may have to, fill in the blank, he may have to go to a different school, your child, or she may have to stop seeing the three different professionals and go to a different sort of care. Like, it's, it's, it's about leveling from the floor, not say, not, I, I live in this house, I drive this car, I have these types of insurances, we have this type of support, and I just need a gap financially. You hear what I'm saying?

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Okay, yep.

• 24:37Dr. John Delony?

  So, when, when you talk about leaving a 15-year marriage, especially, um, with a, somebody who's not well and who gaslights you out of your mind about how they're not well and is willing to take you and your specially child down, you have to understand, I am, I am wiping the deck on the life as I know it. And I have to reverse engineer reality here.

• 25:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 25:01Dr. John Delony?

  And you may be in a situation where you're living in a house where your mortgage is less than rent. That may be the case. But maybe not. It's just a matter of we're going to have to sell a house, we're going to have to possibly move, I might have to get a new job. It's all of that stuff. So tell me where you are financially.

• 25:17Speaker 03

  Yep. So we, um, we, we did own a house at one point, but we sold our home because we needed to move to a different part of the, of the state so we could get my daughter into the right schooling. Um, so we now do rent and our rent is unfortunately significantly higher than our mortgage was because we did this during COVID and things were just kind of crazy and insane. Um, so, you know, our rent is higher. Um, he doesn't have a car currently because his second car was just repossessed a couple of weeks ago. Um, the first one I was a co-signer on. So I, I have an issue with, we've been established in

• 25:57Speaker 03

  our apartment for a few years now and I no longer have the credit to be able to apply somewhere else for a new apartment or even the money to, you know, do a first and last somewhere. So I, I feel stuck in, in that regard and, and I also, you know, even if I do get a little bit of money from him from child support, I don't even have the money to file court fees for divorce and, and child support and, and custody and things like that. So it's like, I, I can't even legally move forward because I'm so strapped with, with money issues.

• 26:35Dr. John Delony?

  Would he, um, fight you on a divorce?

• 26:38Speaker 03

  No, I don't think so.

• 26:41Dr. John Delony?

  If he won't fight you, there's a way to do it very inexpensively.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 26:46Dr. John Delony?

  Um, I mean, it's, I, I've, I've, I have several colleagues who've, who've gotten divorced. They shook hands. They, and they, I mean, it was like 400 bucks, but they didn't, they didn't fight each other. They went down to the court. They, they downloaded some, some papers online, filled them out, shook hands and just called it. They acted like adults in the separation.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:05Dr. John Delony?

  I would be stunned if he let you walk away like that because you're his gravy train.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 27:11Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe he will, or maybe he's, his shame is so overwhelming that he just needs somebody to stop the boat, right?

• 27:17Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 27:18Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and maybe he'd let you go. But if he would, there's ways to do it very, very inexpensively.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 27:25Dr. John Delony?

  There's also community resources, and I don't know them off the top of my head in Boston, but I would research those, um, community resources. And there's, man, there's millions of women who get trapped and I make just enough money to pay my rent and to get my kid over to school, but I don't make enough money to qualify for some of these programs. You're gonna have to just figure that, that math out for yourself.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yep.

• 27:46Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have family connections there in, in your area?

• 27:49Speaker 03

  I do, I do. I'm close with my family.

• 27:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, it may be for six months or a year, I gotta move in with family.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 27:57Dr. John Delony?

  And that is awful. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. And not even because family's great, but it just uproots everything. What type, what type of special needs does your child have?

• 28:05Speaker 03

  Um, my daughter is deaf, um, and she's on the autism spectrum.

• 28:10Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. How, um, what's her, what's her, trying to use a non-nerd word here, um, how social is she?

• 28:19Speaker 03

  She's very social.

• 28:20Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, okay. All right, so she gets around and can, can make her way, okay, all right. Um, what is her ability to, to grasp, grasp social situations? Could you talk to her about what's going on?

• 28:32Speaker 03

  Um, I don't think she would quite understand that. Um, we do communicate via sign language.

• 28:37Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  But I, I know, I feel like there is a little bit of a language barrier. Um, her school is very good at helping communicate when things, when, you know, if a family member passes away, they've been good in the past, um, helping communicate these types of things. So I'm sure I can get assistance.

• 28:52Dr. John Delony?

  So if you've got some support, just somebody to sit with you, where you said, hey, we're moving into Uncle Joey's house or Grandma's house for, for a while, and we're gonna have a fun adventure and it's gonna be different and new, and Dad's really sick, and so he's gonna go get some help that he needs, like, how old, how old is this kid?

• 29:08Speaker 03

  My daughter's 10.

• 29:09Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, yeah, so it, it's varying degrees, and I'll let you be the expert on your child, obviously, and get some support, but, um, I mean, it's, it's that. And if you haven't already, I would freeze my credit.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  I have.

• 29:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, great. So, nobody can take out anything against you anymore. And then it's just about looking at your credit report and see what kind of mess you have.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a mess.

• 29:31Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me how much of a mess. How much in the hole are you?

• 29:34Speaker 03

  Um, well, I mean, my bills in my name are a good and up to date, but probably outside of my car payment, I probably have about $10,000 in credit card debt overall. Um, and then I have a $3,000 a month rent. Um, but I have repossession from my husband's car being repossessed and, um, just things that have been late. But, uh, but the part of the problem is too, is that my husband for many, many years was a 1099 employee and never filed taxes appropriately. And now we owe about $65,000 to the IRS. And I'm very afraid that my check is then gonna be, my paycheck's gonna be garnished at some point

• 30:17Speaker 03

  because it's so many years old and I don't even know where to begin with that, which is completely separate. But it's, you know, it's just all cumulative. All, all of it's building up between, you know, him spending all this money on bookies and, and online gambling and, and everything else.

• 30:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I need you to do something for me. That's gonna be very, very hard, okay?

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:39Dr. John Delony?

  I want you, and, and this is gonna sound nuts, and we're gonna come back to this in a year.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 30:45Dr. John Delony?

  Every second you spend going back, being angry and enraged at this man you married has blown your life up so much is a, is, is a, an ounce of energy you're not using to move forward and save yourself and your child.

• 31:00Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 31:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? So, the more energy or discussions you have about what he did with bookies and all of this and the repossession, you have a serious crisis on your hands. Let's just get to solving the crisis.

• 31:12Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 31:13Dr. John Delony?

  And there's part of you that's gonna have the grief about the failed marriage. Part of you's gonna have the grief about this man that instead of being a husband who lifted his family up and took care of his family, has absolutely thrown an anchor around your neck and dropped you in the middle of the ocean, right? All that, that will come in waves, that will, but we're going to, for the next year, do the best we can to get out of this crisis.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 31:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 31:36Speaker 03

  That's what I need to do.

• 31:37Dr. John Delony?

  How much do you owe? I mean, how much do you make?

• 31:40Speaker 03

  I make, um, my salary is close to seventy-five thousand a year from my individually. Combined, we make about a hundred and fifty on paper.

• 31:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, we're, again, we're gonna go seventy-five.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 31:52Dr. John Delony?

  And you're gonna look at that number and it's gonna be half of what the fantasy has been for a long time. And we're gonna be pissed off about that and then we're gonna go move forward, okay?

• 32:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 32:02Dr. John Delony?

  I am super great, I'm, I'm, it relieves me that you make seventy-five K.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 32:07Dr. John Delony?

  And that you have family support, okay? That's pretty awesome. It is not awesome that you might have to call your mom or your father or one of your sisters and say, I gotta move in for a year.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 32:18Dr. John Delony?

  And I'll pay you a thousand bucks and that's gonna free up two thousand dollars for you.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 32:23Dr. John Delony?

  And, uh, a buddy of mine actually one time, uh, sat down and called ten apartment complexes in a major metropolitan city with a credit score of zero and nine out of ten of them accepted him.

• 32:36Speaker 03

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 32:37Dr. John Delony?

  And so there's this fallacy that you have to have, he did have to have first month for, in all of them, and I think first and last in several, so it might take you several months of paying mom a thousand bucks a month and, and your mom might say, absolutely not, you're not paying me anything, who knows? But, I'm gonna take that two thousand bucks and I'm gonna scratch and claw, or I'm gonna take fifteen hundred of that and I'm going to save up this money so that I can get first and last month's rent. And I'm gonna knock on doors a, at a safe apartment complex in six months or in a year.

• 33:08Dr. John Delony?

  And then we're gonna, um, I'm gonna hook you up with a tax pros, okay? So I work at a place called Ramsey Solutions and they've got relationships with tax pros in your area, so you can go to ramsysolutions.com/tax. And I want you to put your, um, zip code in there and they'll send you several tax professionals and I want you to reach out to one of them.

• 33:28Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:28Dr. John Delony?

  Or reach out to all of them and interview them, they work for you, okay?

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:33Dr. John Delony?

  And they're gonna be able to walk you through exactly, hey, you're, you're not liable for this, or you are liable for this, or we're gonna file this, or whatever, okay?

• 33:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:43Dr. John Delony?

  And that might be five hundred bucks, it might be five thousand bucks. Five thousand bucks against seventy-five thousand dollars of wage garnishment plus penalties is worth that every second, right?

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Every, yep, every second.

• 33:54Dr. John Delony?

  All day long. And so, let's solve this problem in order of importance.

• 34:00Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 34:00Dr. John Delony?

  Importance number one, you have to find a place to live.

• 34:03Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 34:04Dr. John Delony?

  Number two, you have to make sure you've got food and your child has food.

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:09Dr. John Delony?

  Number three, you gotta keep your transportation because you gotta get to and from work. Right. So we're gonna go down, you have to have water and electricity. We're gonna cover those four walls. Then we're gonna do ego, then we're gonna do with pride. You make 75,000 bucks. How old are you?

• 34:23Speaker 03

  I am 46.

• 34:24Dr. John Delony?

  Forty-six-year-olds making 75 grand should not be living with their parents. And yet, here we are.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 34:29Dr. John Delony?

  There's some ego there, there's some frustration, there's some anger. All that's great, but we're gonna go do the next right thing in order of importance. Okay?

• 34:36Dr. John Delony?

  We're gonna, we're going to sit down with husband and say, I'm leaving, I'm moving out. Because that's the decision I've made. By the way, I don't, I can't be held responsible for you deciding in your marriage. Okay?

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Right, I know.

• 34:45Dr. John Delony?

  I'm assuming you're down that road. I can hear it. You're done.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  I'm there. I'm, I'm there.

• 34:50Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so you could print off the, um, the papers. You could fill them out and you could hand them to them.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 34:59Dr. John Delony?

  If there's retirement accounts out there that are 400,000 bucks and you're like, you're not walking away with all that. I bet if you're in the house of a gambler, there's no money left anywhere, right?

• 35:07Speaker 03

  No, there, there really isn't. I have a very small 401K that unfortunately I've taken loans against to try to cover rent in the past and whatnot. So I mean, minimum, maximum 20,000 maybe.

• 35:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so, um, so I want you to also be honest about, I'm gonna send you, um, uh, Financial Peace University. It's an online course. It's got eight, I want you to watch it start to finish, okay?

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 35:30Dr. John Delony?

  And what it's gonna do, it's going to empower you like you haven't been empowered before.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 35:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? Because it feels like the wall's crushing down. A lot of that is rage, a lot of this anger. You make 75K.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 35:43Dr. John Delony?

  And you have family support. That, that puts you way ahead of a lot of folks. Not gonna be easy, but it's put you way ahead, okay?

• 35:50Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 35:51Dr. John Delony?

  If you're struggling with gambling, I'm getting this call over and over and over and over again.

• 36:00Dr. John Delony?

  Make today be the day you call somebody. You gotta go to meetings. You've gotta put some significant hurdles in front of yourself and you gotta get well from this catastrophic, um, addiction. It's destroying everybody. Go get the help that you need. Thank you so much for the call, Mary. We come back, a woman asks how to deal with her fiance's control over how she dresses. I can already tell you, run. We'll be right back.

• 36:30Dr. John Delony?

  Poncho is back as a supporter of this show and I'm super jazzed about it. If you've seen me on this show or on stages across the country, I'm almost always wearing Poncho shirts. I got one on right now. I wear Poncho when I'm fishing in the Gulf and I was wearing Poncho shirts all weekend while I was mowing my little miniature farm out here in Nashville. I'm telling you, you should wear Poncho too because Poncho makes the absolute best outdoor performance shirts and I also wear them inside for men, period. I love Poncho's denims and their insanely soft flannels, but now that it's a million degrees outside, I'm wearing Poncho's ultralight shirts too. They're lightweight and breathable and they're still tough enough to handle whatever chaos

• 37:13Dr. John Delony?

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• 37:55Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Indianapolis, let's talk to Lola, Lola, Lola. What's up Lola?

• 38:02Speaker 04

  Hello.

• 38:03Dr. John Delony?

  How we doing?

• 38:04Speaker 04

  I'm, I'm here, I'm good, how are you?

• 38:08Dr. John Delony?

  I'm here, I'm, I'm present and alive. I'm doing, I'm doing great. Uh, what's going on?

• 38:14Speaker 04

  So, um, I have a fiance who's controlling about a lot of things, but my main thing is what are some ways that I can help, I guess, him become more accepting of my clothing choices? I don't dress provocative or exposing, um, as I'm a business casual corporate job, but he has a lot of issues with leggings or maxi dresses because if I wear those, then I'm just asking for attention from other men and acting single.

• 38:50Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, sister.

• 38:53Speaker 04

  I know. This isn't the only issue.

• 38:55Dr. John Delony?

  I was about to say, I hundred percent get that. So let's put clothing aside.

• 38:59Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 39:04Dr. John Delony?

  Wow. I'm taking a deep breath because I tend to overreact. And I'm trying to be present with you, just like you're, you're present, right? Um, what are other ways he acts controlling?

• 39:15Speaker 04

  So I'm the only one that works. Um, we have four kids. He watches them. And, um, you know, that's what we initially agreed to. However,

• 39:27Speaker 04

  you know, I, he, he was aware he needed to get a part-time job. He didn't. So I took it upon myself to get one. And he basically told me if I did that, then we weren't going to be in a relationship. And I told him while I was going to take the job, I need to do what I need for, to have my bills paid, basically. Um, that's one thing, like who I talk to, um, at work. If I need assistance with something, I reach out. And if a male helps me, then, you know, that's a problem. So it's a lot of like, you know, you can't spend money on this bill because I had it planned to use for trading stocks. And it's just a lot of like who I can talk to, who's allowed in our life, what I wear,

• 40:11Speaker 04

  you know, what I can and cannot post on Facebook. And so it's a lot, a lot of things. And we've been together for nine years. And I'm honestly at my point because I don't want my kids to have to witness this.

• 40:33Dr. John Delony?

  How old are your kids?

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Um, my oldest is seven and then four, three and one.

• 40:44Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know that I will talk to a person who's carrying more guilt in their life than you, okay, so I'm not saying this to pile this on, okay? I want to be very delicate, but your kids are absorbing every second of this.

• 40:57Speaker 04

  I know.

• 41:01Dr. John Delony?

  Not to mention what they're, what the air they breathe while you're gone at work, working both of these jobs, because the person you've had kids with is such a freaking bum.

• 41:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's hard because his version of working is wanting to trade stocks and he hasn't had much luck with it.

• 41:19Dr. John Delony?

  You know why? Because nobody has luck trading stocks, contrary to what TikTok tells you.

• 41:24Speaker 04

  I, yeah, I know, and like, he just tells them mom isn't coming home, so it's, it's hard because then I get home and they're like, well, why did, why did he say this?

• 41:36Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, God, dude.

• 41:37Speaker 04

  And so it's, they don't understand, obviously.

• 41:40Dr. John Delony?

  Why, Lola, this is a loaded question. Why, why are you marrying this guy?

• 41:45Speaker 04

  So we're not married.

• 41:48Dr. John Delony?

  I know, but you're, you're, you're engaged. You called him your fiance. Why are you gonna marry him?

• 41:54Speaker 04

  I'm, I'm not. We, he proposed in October and he basically did it because he said he thought I was going to change and I didn't deserve it and I didn't deserve my job or my kids, but I'm, I'm at my point because I can't let my kids go through that.

• 42:13Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 42:14Speaker 04

  It's the most important thing.

• 42:15Dr. John Delony?

  No, stop, stop, stop. You are worth more than this. And if I'm the first person who's ever told you that, I am heartbroken for the people that raised you, for the people, for the world you grew up in. You are worth so much more than this.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  It's hard when he's obviously saying different. I don't have a lot of family support.

• 42:35Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, clearly, because I, I can't imagine a man like this in my family system. And any guy I know hang out with, a man in this family, all the guys at the booth are, are shaking their head, like, I can't imagine this.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, and it's hard to save up money to

• 42:52Dr. John Delony?

  I know.

• 42:53Speaker 04

  move somewhere else because I'm, yeah.

• 42:56Dr. John Delony?

  I know.

• 42:57Speaker 04

  So.

• 43:03Dr. John Delony?

  So it is very rare that I say what I'm about to say, but you gotta get out of this mess.

• 43:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:11Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm not telling you something you don't know and haven't thought about.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's just hard because I don't have a plan and I don't have anywhere to go.

• 43:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  So.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  And thankfully, we're not married, so we don't have to go through the divorce process.

• 43:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, we all been together for eight years and you got four kids together, so there'll be a, there will be a legal process.

• 43:41Speaker 04

  Right, yeah, I know that. I kinda have that in plan, but whenever I bring up like trying to figure out when we would have the kids, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just, I get called toxic and I'm that bitter baby mama, but I'm really just wanting something legally.

• 44:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I need, I need you to, I need you to consider something, okay? I can't make you do anything.

• 44:05Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 44:06Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to answer a few questions for me.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 44:10Dr. John Delony?

  Has your husband been a person of integrity? Does he tell you the truth? Yes or no?

• 44:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:16Dr. John Delony?

  He does tell you the truth?

• 44:19Speaker 04

  Well, I would like to think he's truthful.

• 44:25Dr. John Delony?

  Wow.

• 44:25Speaker 04

  So I guess, no.

• 44:26Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, let's, let's just, let's just be honest, okay?

• 44:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:30Dr. John Delony?

  Does he tell you the truth that you're just a baby mama, you're a leech, you don't, you don't show up for your kids? Okay, no. Has he been a man of integrity?

• 44:40Speaker 04

  No.

• 44:41Dr. John Delony?

  No. Is he a man who is thoughtful about the finances of his family?

• 44:49Speaker 04

  No.

• 44:49Dr. John Delony?

  Is he a man who supports his wife while she's working one and a half jobs and he's at home hanging out with the kids?

• 44:57Speaker 04

  No.

• 44:58Dr. John Delony?

  Is he, um, taking care of the emotional and spiritual and physical needs of your four kids? And that includes being a good example, getting them out and about, teaching them how to honor their mother.

• 45:12Speaker 04

  No.

• 45:13Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 45:16Dr. John Delony?

  So let's stop going back to that same person who doesn't tell you the truth, who doesn't live an honorable life, who doesn't honor and respect his wife.

• 45:26Dr. John Delony?

  Let's stop going back to that source for information or advice on what to do next.

• 45:33Dr. John Delony?

  That person has disqualified them for any input moving forward. And I know that's a terrifying feeling for you because you've got no family and friends support, right?

• 45:43Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 45:46Dr. John Delony?

  Does he control your direct deposit?

• 45:49Speaker 04

  No, I have a direct deposit going to my own account. He's not on it.

• 45:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So what we have to do is create a subaccount there and begin to save up money for an apartment, first month's rent?

• 46:03Dr. John Delony?

  Will that be fun with four kids? No, it'll be a disaster. And that's the world you're in right now.

• 46:09Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna hook you up with three months with my friends at BetterHelp for free.

• 46:14Dr. John Delony?

  And when you get on there, you've got a history of trauma, don't you?

• 46:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:18Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 46:19Speaker 04

  And he likes to hold it against me.

• 46:20Dr. John Delony?

  I know he does.

• 46:21Speaker 04

  Because he knows it.

• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to repeat after me. He does not get a vote.

• 46:29Speaker 04

  He said he doesn't get a vote?

• 46:30Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no. I want you to say that. He doesn't get a vote.

• 46:34Speaker 04

  He doesn't get a vote?

• 46:36Dr. John Delony?

  When he tells you you're not a good wife or not a good girlfriend, he doesn't get a vote. When he tells you that you're a leech and a bum, he doesn't get a vote. When he brings up past trauma, past assault, then you whisper to yourself, he doesn't get a vote.

• 46:52Dr. John Delony?

  Because no man, no man,

• 46:58Dr. John Delony?

  holds past trauma over the woman they love, over any woman. My God, women I hate, I wouldn't bring up that.

• 47:05Dr. John Delony?

  You get what I'm saying?

• 47:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:08Dr. John Delony?

  I need you to hear me say, "This is unhealthy and this is not normal." And your gut reaction, your gut feelings about all this are right.

• 47:17Dr. John Delony?

  And probably your whole life, people have told you what you feel and body autonomy, all that stuff is not yours. And I want to hand it right back to you, it is yours.

• 47:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 47:28Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:29Dr. John Delony?

  Your next steps will feel scary, they'll feel lonely, they'll feel isolating. Is there anybody in your sphere, maybe somebody at work, a professional mentor who's a woman, a couple of colleagues at work that you could take out for coffee and just say, "Here's what I'm experiencing, I need somebody to walk with me through this next season"?

• 47:48Speaker 04

  I probably could, but...

• 47:50Dr. John Delony?

  No buts, no buts.

• 47:53Speaker 04

  I think I do have people, work is already aware of my situation, but there's nothing that they can, but yeah, I, you know, I probably could do that.

• 48:03Dr. John Delony?

  There's nothing that they quote-unquote can do, right? But they can't sit with you and listen.

• 48:11Dr. John Delony?

  They can give you advice when the other, the other voice in your ear is telling you that all of this is your fault and you're a terrible person and you're not beautiful and, "Oh yeah, one time that guy did this," because you, all that insanity. God dude, I'm getting mad on your behalf, Lola. But here's the thing, and this is heartbreaking for me. I can't get more upset and motivated and mad about this than you.

• 48:36Dr. John Delony?

  This has to come from a place of, "I am worth more than this."

• 48:42Dr. John Delony?

  My kids deserve safety and security and a man that will honor them and me.

• 48:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so, there's an old phrase that I got from just an amazing man, David Kessler, and here's the phrase, "Grief demands a witness." You have to sit down with other people and just explain what's going on.

• 49:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? And it has to be people who you can trust and hopefully you have a work colleague or two, and tell them, "I know y'all can't do anything about this. I just need somebody to sit with me as I begin to make some pretty significant changes in my life because I'm going out on a limb for the first time and it's scary."

• 49:27Dr. John Delony?

  And I can almost guarantee you, you'll have people come out of the woodwork to support you. You'll have people say, "I'll show up and help you move." "You can stay at my back apartment in the back of my garage." Like, people will show up.

• 49:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I guess it's just more so, like, embarrassing that I have to go through it and that I've dealt with it so long. So it's just hard for me to open up on those types of things because I don't want anyone to look at me any less because...

• 49:57Dr. John Delony?

  Listen to me, Lola. They're gonna look at you just like I'm... They're gonna hear you like I'm hearing you. With open arms and open hands. And if they don't... Good God almighty. If they don't, then we're going on to the next.

• 50:14Dr. John Delony?

  That embarrassment is, um, probably less embarrassment and probably more shame. And if you lived a life of sexual abuse, if you lived a life of physical abuse, if you lived a life of parents walking out on you, if you live a life where a guy's just a total bump on a log, shame is the... That constant going back to the mirror and saying, "I'm getting what I deserve. This is happening because of me." That's not embarrassment, that's shame.

• 50:45Dr. John Delony?

  And shame is a powerful, powerful demon.

• 50:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:51Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 50:53Dr. John Delony?

  And if you've ever listened to this show, the times I've said, "It is time to get out", is very, very rare.

• 51:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I listen to it a lot.

• 51:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. I'm telling you, it's time. So here's the deal, I want you to hang on the line. I'm gonna hook you up with better help so you can get some licensed professional counseling care because this is gonna be a journey for you. And probably it's gonna be equal parts reality, like math problems, right? Like, financial. And also, it's going to be very challenging emotionally.

• 51:22Dr. John Delony?

  Because that guy knows where all your, your, your red buttons are, doesn't he?

• 51:27Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:28Dr. John Delony?

  He knows how to bury you really quickly, doesn't he?

• 51:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So you're gonna need some professional care and I'll hook you up at least the first several months of that, okay?

• 51:37Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 51:37Dr. John Delony?

  When you call this counselor, I want you to promise me two things, okay?

• 51:42Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 51:42Dr. John Delony?

  Number one, I want you to tell the whole truth, unfiltered.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 51:47Dr. John Delony?

  And you're used to shame, embarrassment, whatever, you're used to kind of hedging the truth. I want you to tell the full truth, okay? There will be some freedom in that.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 51:57Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing is, I want you to say, "I need an action plan. I need you to walk with me as we co-create an action plan together for me to get to freedom."

• 52:14Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 52:15Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:19Dr. John Delony?

  And I just need to tell you, I'm so sorry, man.

• 52:23Speaker 04

  It's okay.

• 52:24Dr. John Delony?

  It's not. No, no, no, it's not!

• 52:25Speaker 04

  No, it's not okay.

• 52:26Dr. John Delony?

  You don't have to make me feel better. I'm okay. I know your whole life is about making the other people in the room feel okay. You don't gotta do that with me. It's not okay.

• 52:39Dr. John Delony?

  All right, dear?

• 52:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:42Dr. John Delony?

  You call me anytime. You got it?

• 52:46Speaker 04

  Okay. Thank you.

• 52:47Dr. John Delony?

  All right. It's been an honor to talk to you, okay? Hang on the line here. We'll get you hooked up with some of these resources. Also, you know what? I'm also gonna send you Financial Peace University as well. I want you to walk through this. You're gonna have to learn alone how to do some of these financial things and get caught up, and this will free you as well. Phew, my goodness. Hey, we'll be right back.

• 53:12Dr. John Delony?

  All right, it's time for a quick word about Delete Me. Do you feel like your digital footprints, you know, your text messages, your emails, your maps in your car, are starting to feel more like digital trails leading bad guys right back to you? Right now, scammers are using phishing attacks, that's phishing with a P-H, and they try to trick you into giving them- Something like your information by pretending to know you. You might get an email, a text or a phone call and the person or the AI bot on the other end sounds like someone who's looking out for you and trying to help you out, but they're not. With all of these new technological advancements coming at us a million miles an hour, no one is really safe. So what are we supposed to do? We can start controlling what we can.

• 53:54Dr. John Delony?

  We can learn how to be careful online and offline and we can all sign up with Delete Me. I use and recommend Delete Me because they work in the background to reduce my online presence. I don't have to worry about creepy data brokers having my data and trying to sell it behind my back. Delete Me has reviewed tens of thousands of sites for me. And when they've found stuff, they've removed data from hundreds of the sites, which has saved me countless hours and a ton of stress. Stop phishing attacks, harassment and other online threats before they even start and take control of your digital privacy with Delete Me. Go to joindelete.me.com/deloney today for 20% off your annual plan. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month.

• 54:37Dr. John Delony?

  That's joindelete.me.com/deloney. Kelly, save this show, please, because I'm finding myself getting increasingly angry.

• 54:50Speaker 05

  All right. Have you ever heard the term like hot girl summer in terms like that? I mean,

• 54:56Dr. John Delony?

  Have we met?

• 54:57Speaker 05

  Have you ever had a hot girl summer?

• 54:59Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, dude, me, Keeler, Joe, we like, we're having a hot girl summer right now. What is a hot girl summer?

• 55:05Speaker 05

  It's probably not the one to ask because I'm also not in this age range. But it's just the whole idea of like,

• 55:13Speaker 05

  you know, summertime and we're going to do all these things and have a hot girl summer or whatever the term de jour is.

• 55:20Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean? Like, we're going to wear like bikinis and go to the beach? We're going to like, go line dancing down on Broadway? Like, what does that mean?

• 55:29Dr. John Delony?

  Is it just like YOLO? Is it just like a saying?

• 55:32Speaker 05

  Yes, basically. Well, the new one for 2025 is

• 55:38Speaker 05

  Therapy Bro Summer. And this is one I can get on board with.

• 55:40Dr. John Delony?

  Therapy Bro Summer.

• 55:42Speaker 05

  Therapy Bro.

• 55:43Dr. John Delony?

  As a bro? Am I a bro? I don't think I am. Am I?

• 55:47Speaker 05

  You can be.

• 55:48Dr. John Delony?

  Damn, Gina, that hurts. Okay, so as a bro, already I'm out on Therapy Bro Summer. What is that?

• 55:57Speaker 05

  So according to a study that was released this past May, 55% of Gen Z women refuse to date a man if he's not at least willing to go to therapy. And 45% people found that people that go to therapy are more attractive. And that number goes to 55% for millennial women. So the whole idea of this is trying to get men to go see a therapist. Talk to somebody. So this is one I can get behind.

• 56:25Dr. John Delony?

  I can get behind that.

• 56:26Speaker 05

  Yes, because basically it makes people more attractive when they're willing to, when they have a little self-knowledge.

• 56:35Dr. John Delony?

  Deal with their crap.

• 56:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. So this quote says, "Self-actualization, emotional literacy, authentic confidence, humility, and the ability to make healthy choices will naturally make someone an attractive mate and a better partner in any relationship, romantic or otherwise."

• 56:52Dr. John Delony?

  And so therapy, I guess, so I guess my caveat to that would be, therapy can be an avenue to those things. But I wonder if the, underneath all of that is, you're a person who will go seek new skills when you realize the things that you're doing aren't working. Is that fair?

• 57:11Speaker 05

  Yes, because it said that unfortunately, a lot of men still consider going to therapy weak.

• 57:17Dr. John Delony?

  Yes.

• 57:18Speaker 05

  And especially those over 35, when real men face their demons, they don't run away from them. So guys...

• 57:25Dr. John Delony?

  I remember, I remember asking, he's in his 60s, I, I'm, I'm painting this picture, insanely wealthy guy with, who's a big gun collector and a, like all this stuff. Well, he was talking to me about going to, um, going to marriage counseling back in, like in the 80s. I was like, dude, dudes didn't go to marriage counseling in the 80s. And his response was so important, it, it changed my perception. And what he said was, "I didn't have the skills, I needed to go get these skills." And it sounded as though, he was like, dude, my air conditioner went out and I don't know how to fix it, so I called somebody who has that toolkit and that set of skills to fix

• 58:10Dr. John Delony?

  it. But it was just very matter of fact. And I often think that men look at therapy as...

• 58:19Dr. John Delony?

  Like you said, like weak, as coward, but if you look at it as I don't have a set of skills. Like we talked to one of the calls today, like I am burning through my family's money because I have a gambling addiction. And I don't have the skill set to get out of this. I need to go get some more skills. I need to talk to somebody. I'm struggling with pornography, with cheating on my spouse. I find myself flying off the handle in rage at my four-year-old, right? I don't have a skill set, so maybe that's a way to de-stigmatize it. But I think the call out here is, is important. If you're 30 or 35 and you can't find anyone to date, there may, it may be you. You may be undateable.

• 59:00Dr. John Delony?

  Um, that marriage book I'm working on right now, like one of the chapters, like the, the headings will change, but right now it's millions of unmarriable men who are trapped in this loop of

• 59:12Dr. John Delony?

  uh, nobody wants to be around me, yet I'm angry all the time. I have to be right all the time. I have to fix everybody all the time. I am like fill in the blank, all these different actions and, and thought processes and behaviors. But I guess for whatever it's worth, I see a therapist. So I don't, I don't, I don't know. The bravest guys I know go say, hey, I don't know how to do a thing and go get it. What do you say, Joe? Oh, I thought you were about to say something. Ther- Joe is about to be like, therapy bros for life.

• 59:38Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So Kelly, you're in support of A, hot girl summer, which you're a huge fan of, and B, therapy, what is it? Therapy bros?

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Therapy bro summer. I'm definitely in support of that. I'm in support of that for anyone that needs something, yeah, that needs, you know, they got things they need to deal with.

• 59:52Dr. John Delony?

  Nate Dogg, what do you think about therapy bro summer? I'm all for it.

• 59:58Dr. John Delony?

  Is that probably why you work on this show?

• 1:00:01Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Guys, go get the help and care you need, whether it's from a therapist, a medical professional, an electrician. Go learn the skills you need to learn.

• 1:00:14Dr. John Delony?

  The rest of the world is counting on you. We love you. Bye.