02 Jesse & Luke | Beau Lamarre-Condon's version of events

Beau Lamarre-Condon's defence barrister has explained how the accused says Jesse Baird and Luke Davies died inside Jesse’s Paddington home on February 19, 2024. In an emotional few days in court, Jesse’s friends and family also spoke about his budding relationship with Luke, and Jesse’s alleged fear of Mr Lamarre-Condon. If you have any questions you’d like Jamie and Stocky to answer in future episodes, please email [email protected]. Family and domestic violence support: If you need help, contact the 1800 Respect https://1800respect.org.au/ national helpline on 1800 737 732. The Case Of is the follow-up to the hit podcast Mushroom Case Daily, and all episodes of that show will remain available in the back catalogue of The Case Of.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Stephen Stockwell?

  A pig gets shot and this nearly starts a war. A pastry shop gets trashed. War. A football match turns ugly. Also war? Hey there, I'm Mark Fennell. On the No One Saw It Coming podcast, we are taking on history's most absurd conflicts. Four episodes, four wars, and we called it This Stupid War. Search No One Saw It Coming podcast on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

• 0:45Stephen Stockwell?

  The sound of three fatal gunshots inside the Brown Street house have been played to the court and accused murderer Bowlem Arcondon has given his explanation for how those shots were fired. I'm Stephen Stockwell. Just a content warning, there are some graphic descriptions of violence in this episode. This is episode two of the case of Jesse and Luke.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  He's accused of shooting Jesse Baird and Luke Davies with his service firearm.

• 1:09Speaker 03

  Police now allege Constable Bowlem Arcondon murdered the couple at a home in Paddington.

• 1:14Speaker 04

  This is just a terrible incident that's occurred here. The loss of these two young men.

• 1:21Speaker 05

  Now this is Mardi Gras time and yet it's a community in mourning.

• 1:24Speaker 06

  The pain is ongoing. We don't have a lot of answers that we would love to have just to help bring closure, to bring peace.

• 1:32Stephen Stockwell?

  It has been an emotional couple of days in the courtroom as friends and family of Jesse Baird have broken down describing his relationship with Luke Davies and also his fear of Bowlem Arcondon, the man accused of their murders. And in the courtroom, as all of this has been put before the jury, has been ABC Legal Affairs reporter Jamie McKinnon. Jamie, welcome.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  Hi, Stocky.

• 1:53Stephen Stockwell?

  It's been a really sad couple of days.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it has been. There's been a lot of emotion, especially from Jesse Baird's loved ones and some of his relatives. It's actually been quite difficult to watch them relive parts of this and become upset. And there have been tears in the witness box and in the public gallery. And I think the last couple of days has really shown that the human impact of this case has been on full display.

• 2:15Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, absolutely. Do you think you could wrap it up for us in 60 seconds or so?

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we heard the sound of gunshots echo through Jesse Baird's Paddington house. They were captured on CCTV footage from a neighbour's property and that part of that video was played to the jury. From the defence team, there was an indication of how it plans to defend these charges. It's going to be an argument about self-defense. An alternative version of what took place inside the Brown Street terrace has been flagged for the jury. And they've been told that it's the accused's version that there were two separate struggles within that property involving a police gun, which ended in two tragic deaths. And that Bowlem Arcondon panicked afterwards and he knew how that was going to look.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  But the defence team insists that he never went there that day to harm anyone. We also heard Luke and Jesse were smitten with one another and they were looking forward to the future. And we've heard testimony from Jesse's sister and some of his very close friends about how fearful he was of Mr. Arcondon and his access to a gun as a police officer. We've also learned more about the extent of what the Crown alleges was Bowlem Arcondon's stalking and the defendant's use of social media in particular to discourage who he perceived as romantic rivals.

• 3:34Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you, Jamie. There is so much for us to unpack in this episode. Interested in diving into Bowlem Arcondon's defence of this murder charge, but also hearing about the relationships that kind of form part of these people's lives and the trial that we're sitting in at the moment. Before we get into that though, I really want to talk about this CCTV from across the road of Jesse Baird's home. You mentioned this in the rap that we can hear these gunshots in that. Can you describe this video for us?

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this was a video that shows a street area. It's very nearby, the Paddington terrace that Jesse Baird lived in. But the audio is what seems most relevant here. You can't see a lot on the actual vision, but the audio is what was very striking when it was played. So at 9.49am on February 19, 2024, the first gunshot, there was a loud bang in that street. Four seconds later, there was another. And then the third was about 50 seconds after that. That was the third and final gunshot. Now, this was played during part of the Crown's opening address. And on the prosecution case, the first two shots were when Jesse Baird was allegedly murdered. They said that the second shot was an execution style shot in the kitchen.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  And the Crown alleges that the third shot was when Luke Davies was in a bedroom trying to call 000 and he was allegedly murdered by being shot through a door.

• 4:58Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep. The thing that stuck with me from this was just how long that 50 seconds between the second and third shot felt, knowing that was coming, knowing roughly the timing. It felt like minutes and minutes and minutes. And it was something that really affected people in the public gallery as well. Not far from me was a woman sitting there holding tissues as that one was fired as well, right in front of where the jury is as well. We've also heard details, Jamie, about what the prosecution alleged happened following those shots being fired. And we've seen some photos from Jesse's housemates of some bags out the back of the house. Is that right?

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they were in a sort of courtyard area of the Brown Street terrace. And the Crown says Jesse Baird's housemates were the ones who took photos of these items that they noticed in this sort of courtyard area. They were shown on the screen in court. They were photos of a surfboard bag or bags and also a blue tupperware that was sort of wrapped or covering part of these items. And in the photo, there was a red liquid that was seeping or staining the sort of area around those items. And the court was told that one of the housemates thought that liquid might have been rust. The prosecution is alleging that Mr. Arcondon made several trips to Bunnings Stores as he participated in what they say was a cover up.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  And he bought things, we heard, like a bucket, black vinyl gloves, a mop, double sided tape, cleaning cloths, cable ties, bleach and garbage bags. And we also heard that he hired a van to transport their bodies. He's accused of returning to the Paddington address later and cleaning that red staining off the ground of the courtyard area. And the court was told that he accessed that area through a roller door later on. We also have heard that when the housemates returned, they didn't think anything was amiss in the house because the jurors had been told there was an extent of cleaning that had been done. So even though they alleged that these things happened and alleged murders took place in

• 6:59Speaker 02

  the house, they say that the extent of cleaning was to this extent that the housemates didn't realise that anything was amiss.

• 7:06Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, okay. And is the allegation that Bowlem Arcondon returns to the house and then removes those bags from, what, through the back?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what we heard from the Crown opening. So the allegation is that Bowlem Arcondon hired a Hiace van and the Crown says that was the vehicle that he is accused of using to transport their bodies and ultimately try to dispose of them still in the surfboard bags, sort of near a fence line in a rural area.

• 7:34Stephen Stockwell?

  Is the Crown alleging that Bowlem Arcondon was recruiting friends to help him with this?

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's also part of the Crown's address that we heard, that he told a friend quite soon after going to Brown Street that he had killed two people, according to the Crown. And when that friend asked how, he is alleged to have said with a gun and made a hand gesture. But the Crown says he later claimed in a message to that friend that that was only a joke and said, I should get an Oscar. Another witness who's going to be known as Elizabeth Kennedy in this trial, the Crown says travelled with him in the van as they went south of Sydney to that rural area to, it was a farm near Galben, which was known to Mr. Arcondon, according to the prosecution. And that friend was dropped at a gate, we heard, while he drove deeper into the property

• 8:23Speaker 02

  at Bungonia and then returned to the gate area to pick her up. Now, the Crown alleges that during that time, he had tried to sink the bodies by pouring quick set cement into the surf bags and also using weights. But the Crown says that was unsuccessful. And they also said by this point, the police investigation had linked Bowlem Arcondon to Jesse Baird. So the things were progressing in the investigation. As we said, ultimately their bodies were found not at the dam area, but about 20 kilometres away. Bowlem Arcondon is alleged to have returned to that area later. And the Crown says where they were found was on a fence line near a monastery. And the prosecution said they were still in the surfboard bags, but they were sort of crudely, they said, covered with rocks near a road there.

• 9:10Stephen Stockwell?

  Talking there about how police linked Bola Marcondon with Jessie Baird, or how the Crown's alleging that they've linked Bola Marcondon to Jessie Baird. We did speak in our last episode about how Bola Marcondon handed himself into, I think it was Bondi Police Station. As the Crown opening progressed, we then got more detail about what unfolded on that day, including a phone call that he made to a police hotline on his way to the station. What did he say?

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, we heard he made this call saying that he wouldn't be into work. He was calling this police helpline, but the Crown says he didn't speak about the deaths of Jessie and Luke. There is what sounded like a transcript of that call that the Crown seemed to be quoting from as part of their opening. And it quoted Bola Marcondon as saying, since joining the force in 2018, that he'd been exposed to things like destruction and death and trauma with minimal support. And he also claimed that he'd been bullied with no action taken. And the Crown quoted directly from, I think, what was a transcript of that call. And Bola Marcondon is quoted as saying, all this death and trauma and psychological abuse and trauma, did I say trauma already?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  It's caused me to have some symptoms of schizophrenia. Can we just start again? Just delete that whole thing. We'll keep it short and sweet. So again, we haven't heard the full evidence of that call, but it sounds like there is a transcript from what we heard in the Crown's opening.

• 10:36Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay, thank you, Jamie. It's been interesting hearing in this opening, the detail of the investigation that police say was undertaken. So it's, you know, police going through the house, they're looking at, you know, where bullets may have gone, all of that, you know, what sort of, you know, where blood may be found, all of those sort of details. But the thing that surprised me was that it seemed as though they were still finding evidence up until like the middle of this year.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so very recently, something was discovered, in the Crown's words, belatedly. That's how Brett Hatfield, I see the prosecutor, described it. It was in July this year, and this was a bullet hole that was found in a door of the Brown Street terrace. That was previously covered by a hook and some paint, a sort of stick-on hook. And the jury was told investigators initially missed this, but how they discovered it was there was a photograph taken in August 2023, and they compared that to a crime scene photo, and they noticed there was a discrepancy, so they went back there and investigated again. And the Crown says, after the hook and the paint and different things were removed,

• 11:41Speaker 02

  there was what's called stippling marks on the hallway side of the door around that hole. Now, the jury's been told that stippling is an indicator of gunpowder. So the Crown case here is that the gun was discharged close to the door when Luke Davies was on the other side. And the prosecution says that at that point, Luke Davies must have been struggling with the door.

• 12:02Stephen Stockwell?

  That's the Crown case, though. But the other thing that's happened over the last couple of days, Jamie, is that we have got a much clearer picture of Bola Marcondon's defence. So we had the Crown opening, they've laid out their case. We have also had the defence opening, where they have laid out what Bola Marcondon says unfolded in this house in February 2024. What did he say?

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Well, John Stratton, who's the Defence Counsel, said that it's his client's case that what he did that day was self-defence. He called the deaths tragic in his defence opening. But he said his client went to this Paddington property to collect possessions that he'd left there, including jewellery. John Stratton said Bola Marcondon was dressed in this Uber Eats outfit, thinking that nobody would be home, but also using that outfit just in case somebody did answer the door. And then Mr Stratton said he could masquerade as a delivery person. And that was because he wanted to avoid the embarrassment of having another meeting with Jessie Baird. Mr Stratton said he was very upset about their final breakup the year before.

• 13:06Speaker 02

  We also heard, Stokky, that Bola Marcondon was wearing a helmet on that day. So Mr Stratton told the jury that, once he got inside, his client was surprised by Jessie Baird being there, and Jessie Baird didn't recognise Bola Marcondon because of the helmet. Mr Stratton said Mr Marcondon was carrying a gun because he was a police officer, and that according to his training, he wasn't allowed to leave it in a car and leave it unattended. So the defence case, according to this defence opening, is that there was a struggle, Mr Stratton said, and in that struggle, the gun went off twice and Jessie Baird was fatally wounded. The defence case is then that it was Bola Marcondon who was the one who tried to call triple zero off a mobile phone.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  And Mr Stratton said the gun was flung into the lounge room area. And he also said that it's Bola Marcondon's case that from there, he tried to head to the door, and that's when he encountered Luke Davies. He said that it's the defence case, there was a second struggle also involving the police gun. And the defence will argue that during that struggle, Luke Davies fatally shot himself. Now, Mr Stratton emphasised that Bola Marcondon did not plan to kill anyone that day. He didn't go there intending to harm anyone. And at the very end of his defence opening, he also urged the jury to not reach any final conclusion until they've heard all of the evidence in this trial.

• 14:28Stephen Stockwell?

  Okay. I mean, it was a number of days before Bola Marcondon went to police. Is his explanation for that, that a friend told him to try and dispose of the bodies himself?

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Their argument seems to be that Bola Marcondon panicked after these two struggles happened in Brown Street. He knew the gravity of the situation, according to John Stratton, and knew how it might be perceived. So in the Crown's opening, we heard that Bola Marcondon, in June 2025, so fast-forwarding after the alleged murders, wrote a statement claiming that he contacted this witness that we mentioned, she's known as Elizabeth Kennedy. And in his statement of June 2025, he claimed that he called her soon afterwards on Signal, told her what had happened. And he claims that she was the one who said, no, don't go to police, they won't believe you.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Stay calm, I know what we have to do, we have to hide the bodies, we'll figure it out. So that was a much later claim from Bola Marcondon. But his defence opening says that he panicked afterwards. And his actions in terms of moving their bodies and trying to clean the scene, John Stratton said, those are not the actions of a person who believed that he was guilty of murder, they're the actions of someone who knew the gravity of the situation and knew how it was going to look bad.

• 15:50Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, I appreciate the kind of distinction between what was part of the defence opening and then also elements of the Crown opening that relate to what Bola Marcondon says unfolded, that written statement that he made as well. We started getting into the witnesses following these openings and had a real insight into the relationships of Jessie Baird around that time, his friendships, hearing from lots of different friends and family. And I want to start with the evidence from his mother, who was one of the first witnesses who stood in the witness box. And we got a real sense of where Jessie's life was at in early 2024. And she talked about actually meeting Luke Davies and being really excited for the couple.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Helen Baird was fighting back tears as she was giving this evidence. She was being asked questions about her relationship with her son. She said they were very close, they spoke regularly. He was very open with her about his personal life and his relationships and his life in Sydney after he moved to Sydney. And she said she met Luke when he visited Victoria, and this new relationship between Luke and Jessie was sort of solidifying. She said it was early days at that point, but she also told the court, they were both smitten with each other and they were great together. And we heard that weeks later, she was sent a photograph by Jessie of Jessie at a Pink concert with Luke, and he wrote a caption or a comment saying, Luke is my boyfriend. And she became emotional again when she was remembering what she wrote back.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  She said, she replied with a big love heart and said, I'm so happy for you both. So that was one of those moments that was very emotional to watch as she gave that evidence.

• 17:24Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, there were some really kind of beautiful moments of just hearing about Jessie's life that we heard from his mum, also his sister, also other friends as well that we'll talk about through this episode. The other side of this, though, you know, initially from Jessie Baird's mum and sister, was also Jessie Baird's alleged fear of Bola Marcondon.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, Helen Baird also spoke about this, but also his mindset, according to him and conversations they had when he moved to Sydney. She said that when Jessie moved here, he just wanted friends and he didn't want anything serious. And she recalled him telling her at some point about his concern that Bola Marcondon was becoming obsessive about him. And then Jessie's sister, Courtney Baird, also remembered some conversations that she had with Jessie. She said Jessie also told her that he was fearful and scared of Bola Marcondon because of him being a police officer and his access to a gun. And she remembered this conversation where he was going through different sort of behaviours from Bola Marcondon.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  And she said that he was shaken up and he was telling her that he thought that he was being followed by Bola Marcondon. And that Bola Marcondon would often post things on Instagram that would make it look like they were a couple when they were not a couple, and go through his phone and block contacts and things like that. And she said he was, he seemed quite shaken up when he was describing these things. Also, Courtney Baird was asked if she ever met Luke, and she said, no, but then this smile came across her face, and she said, I didn't, but I wish I did. Again, it was this really emotional moment and quite sad to watch because, you know, outside of a court setting, that would have been a significant thing to meet the partner of your brother, but in hindsight, it takes on a different meaning.

• 19:10Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, it is something that becomes so sad when we know how it ends, Jamie. Jesse's sister will never have the opportunity to meet Luke. So that's unfortunately the situation we're in at the moment. And I mean, talking about Jesse Baird's fear of Bola Marcondon, we heard that again from another one of his very close friends, somebody he'd known for a long time, an ex-boyfriend of his, Corey Dean Thorpe. It wasn't so much, it was additionally, you know, the fear of what Bola Marcondon could do, but not just in a, you know, a violent sense, but also in a kind of career or reputational sense, right?

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Mr. Thorpe, we heard that he was a former long-term partner of Jesse Baird. They were together for about four or five years, Mr. Thorpe said, but they still were close after that ended and they remained sort of in regular contact. And he remembered speaking to Jesse Baird around November 2023 and he remembers Jesse Baird saying to him that he was scared about going to police and didn't want to report some of these things that were happening because Bola Marcondon might make false allegations. And because Jesse was a TV presenter and an AFL umpire, having a working with children cheque was quite important to his work. And so it seemed like he was concerned, according to that conversation, about false allegations impacting his work in that way.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  But Mr. Thorpe also recalled Jesse talking to him about how Bola Marcondon would allegedly stalk him. He said he mentioned one specific incident where Jesse was at a cafe and Bola Marcondon drove past. And then afterwards, he allegedly sent a message that said, I hope you're enjoying that coffee with that guy. And Mr. Thorpe also recalled this conversation, seemed to be a lot of things covered in this conversation, but Jesse, he said, was asking him for advice about how to end this and sending a proposed message about what he might say to Bola Marcondon. And he told him a lot of these things that were concerning him, according to Corey Thorpe. He used, Corey Thorpe used the word petrified to describe how Jesse was at that point.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  He said that when they talked about some of the messages from Bola Marcondon and some of the behaviours, that he said he'd never heard Jesse so scared in his voice. And he said, he just kept repeating, he has a gun.

• 21:27Stephen Stockwell?

  And Corey's someone who would have known Jesse for a long time, very well. And so I think that for me landed quite strongly, hearing it from, from him. And I mean, the time that this conversation is happening between Jesse and Corey, this is, seems to me to be kind of late 2023. And this is a point where, as we've discussed in the Crown opening, that Bola Marcondon allegedly was accessing Jesse's phone, deleting contacts, blocking people, also kind of unfollowing people on social media. And we've heard people, heard from people who experienced this themselves. Who, who were some of these people?

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, so some of these witnesses who spoke about them, there were two that we've, we've heard from this week, one by the name of Leroy Lidbetter and another one was Damon Wilson. Now, Mr. Wilson is a dancer. He said he dated Jesse Baird casually through parts of 2023. And we heard that he was one of the people who had his phone number blocked and that caused some communication issues where he was trying to get in touch with Jesse or not getting messages at certain times. And they were sort of trying to work out what was going on there. He said at one point, he got a message from Bola Marcondon after he had been meeting up or doing things with Jesse Baird. And, and this message the court heard said, I'd hate to see you get hurt the same way myself and multiple other guys have.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  It was quite long, but these are parts of it that I've, I've noted down. It also said, I've, I've got nothing against you. Jesse led me on to believe it was going to be a relationship. Then he told me he wasn't ready. He gaslit a whole situation because he is charming. He literally destroyed me and it took me a while to recover. Now, this was November 18 in 2023. And we heard the same day, Bola Marcondon sent Jesse Baird a message that said, I can see you and Damon having breakfast in Paddington. Now Damon Wilson told Jesse at one point to check that his location services on his phone were disabled and for things like Snapchat, make sure the location was off. Mr. Wilson said that he also saw posts on Bola Marcondon's Instagram that were close

• 23:34Speaker 02

  friends stories that gave the impression that Mr. Marcondon and Jesse were together. And he said, one of them was that post about flowers that we mentioned in the last episode, this close friend story that it means that the audience is restricted essentially. And Mr. Wilson took a screenshot of that and said he contacted Jesse because he was sort of confused about the situation. And Jesse told him, he said, that he and Bola Marcondon were obviously close, but not together slash in a relationship.

• 24:03Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm. It was interesting hearing from him, the, the kind of like close stories experience. You know, the flowers, I think was the second close story that he'd seen. There'd been a previous one where on Bola Marcondon's close story, he told the court that there was a video of Bola Marcondon and Jesse on a bed, playing with a dog as well. And he just kind of went past that and didn't, you know, say anything to Jesse at that time. But it was that second one that he just sort of sent. You know, what seemed like a kind of like casual message, but obviously inquiring to be like, hey, look, I'm not overstepping here. Like there's not a relationship that you're already in or anything like that, that sort of sparked that conversation. I found it interesting kind of getting that level of detail, the relationship and the type of communications that are, that are happening at that time as well. Also a friend of Jesse Baird's, Matthew Edwards, who described, you know, Luke Davies

• 24:48Stephen Stockwell?

  as, I think it was the real deal, coming back to that relationship?

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he was someone who knew Jesse for quite some time. And firstly, he remembered that when he was, was first told by Jesse about this person called Bola Marcondon, he said it was around the start of 2023. And he said at that point, Jesse told him that it was a friend and nothing more. But then in another part of his evidence, he remembered catching up with Jesse in early 2024. And he spoke about the new relationship that was forming between Jesse and Luke. He said that he had never seen Jesse happier than when he was with Luke. And he said, there was something about Luke that lit Jesse up and he said they were the real deal.

• 25:28Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah. And I mean, Jamie, we heard in the, the Crown opening that they're saying that the motive for these murders is that Bola Marcondon was driven by obsession and jealousy. So jealous of other men who Jesse Baird was spending time with, as well as the friends of Jesse Baird. We've also heard from colleagues of Bola Marcondon, one of them a police officer who worked with him and did spend a bit of time with him outside of work. And he also didn't seem kind of particularly comfortable with some of the things that he saw Bola Marcondon doing, right?

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this was a colleague called Reece Domkins. Now, he was a police colleague. He testified that there was a time where they were in the car going on a drive and Bola Marcondon seemed to spontaneously want to drive past Jesse Baird's home. He also recalled a part of that conversation was Bola Marcondon saying that he knew where Jesse parked and he also knew how to get rid of his car. And he told the court that he felt quite uncomfortable with that behaviour and he said, no, let's just go. Another person who gave evidence about this close friends story issue was a PCYC colleague and she worked with Bola Marcondon.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  She recalled learning about his use of the close friends list to sort of target specific people as the audience of stories that he was posting. And she said at times she learned that he was nominating an audience of just one person. She said that it seemed like those people were people that Bola Marcondon thought Jesse was getting close to. And she was asked, did you discourage him from doing that? And she said, I said, that's crazy. And she said, his reply was, it works.

• 27:12Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm. As we've been talking through and hearing about Jesse Baird, his relationships, have you noticed much emotion from Bola Marcondon?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  He's been quietly listening in the dock for most of the time. I've, I've been watching at some of the points in the evidence, he's sort of resting his chin on his hand and observing. But there was a point yesterday where I saw him wiping his eyes with a tissue. This was when a message from Jesse Baird was being read out at the very end of the day and it was quite a long message, but it was the message when Jesse Baird was breaking things off the first time with him and describing his reasons. Jesse in that message was describing that he didn't feel ready for a relationship, but parts of it were also saying that he felt lucky to have met Bola Marcondon and that he was afraid of hurting him. And there were some more positive elements to that message.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  And that was the point where Bola Marcondon was sitting in the dock with the tissues and it seemed like he was getting a bit emotional hearing that message.

• 28:12Stephen Stockwell?

  Hmm. I did notice at the end of the day, I didn't see that, but Bola Marcondon is standing up when the jury come in and out of the room. And I noticed as the jury was leaving yesterday, he was standing up and he's previously stood quite straight and sort of firm. And yesterday was kind of moving around a bit, swallowing, blinking around that time is what I noticed at the, the very end of, of yesterday. Jamie, we're getting a heap of questions sent through to [email protected]. Really appreciate hearing from you, your questions, your thoughts, some wonderful feedback that we've gotten as well so far. I want to start with a question here from Sky in Newcastle though. They're wondering how Bola Marcondon was able to access his firearm when he was not on duty.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  So it seems like the allegation in this case is that he kept it. We've heard evidence from the officer in charge, so the lead investigator in this case, about the storage expectations of police officers and their firearms. He didn't have permission for it to, to not be at his main station. So there were certain rules about that. But we've also heard that he did do some work that he required his weapon for. The Crown alleges that he just did not return it to the safe.

• 29:19Stephen Stockwell?

  Thank you, Jamie. Thank you, Sky, for your question. Very much appreciate hearing from you. One from Cormac, who's listening to us in London. He knows that we probably can't speak specifically about this case, but he is wondering generally why the prosecution may refuse a manslaughter plea over murder. In our last episode, we talked about how Bola Marcondon attempted to plead guilty to manslaughter of Jesse Baird and that was knocked back by the prosecution. Can we talk about why that might be?

• 29:44Speaker 02

  I think we can speak generally, so without delving into speculation. Generally, the prosecution will have guidelines that they apply to their decisions, prosecutorial guidelines. The specifics of this case, we don't know how these decisions have been made, but they will have these guidelines that they sort of weigh up all of the evidence, what they expect to happen in the trial and make those kind of decisions. And I think what's relevant to remember here is the defence case that we've spoken about. There's a self-defence case, and that means that there are certain things Bola Marcondon is not disputing. He agrees that he was at the Paddington Terrace, for example, on the morning of the alleged murders. He was inside the house.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  He agrees that he was wearing the Uber Eats outfit. So that may be relevant in this case to the way things are playing out.

• 30:36Stephen Stockwell?

  Great, thank you, Jamie. Thank you, Cormac, for your email as well, all the way from London. I wonder how long that took. Question here from Hone, who's just asking about whether or not any ballistics or whether bullets match Bola Marcondon's gun.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  We haven't heard a lot of evidence about this, but there was part of the Crown's opening address that says they will allege that he swapped the ammunition. So the Crown says that the ammunition evidence found at the scene was different to the operational bullets. And so on their case, that means that the bullets must have been put in by Bola Marcondon before he entered the Brown Street property. But we should remind people here, Stocky, that that's from the Crown opening. So that's a foreshadowing of the evidence, and that evidence has not yet arrived.

• 31:20Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep, thank you, Jamie. Thank you, Hone, as well, for getting in touch, [email protected]. Jamie, one here, final question for this episode, question from Jess on Non-Moral Country Canberra. She's got a question about the courtroom sketches that she's seen of Bola Marcondon. They remind her of sketches of Aaron Patterson that she'd seen. Is it the same artist or somebody else who's drawing these?

• 31:40Speaker 02

  It's not the same artist. It's an artist we use in Sydney. His name's Rocco Fazari. You can Google him and see some of his work. He's been around for a long time doing this kind of work. But I should nerd out a little bit here, Stocky, with the court illustrations. I actually love watching the court artists do their work and watching them come together. It's so fascinating to see how quickly they have to work sometimes. It's a real skill. But also, the other thing about Rocco is that he uses a tablet, and so he's doing it electronically. And there will be times in our stories that you'll see he has screen recorded and we can use movement and we can show the process of his illustration coming together, which

• 32:20Speaker 02

  I think that's a really great thing to watch, you know, how he's adding to this and capturing a moment in the courtroom.

• 32:27Stephen Stockwell?

  Yeah, it was interesting. I think I was sitting just in front of him yesterday at one point and you're turning around trying to like just see how he's working through that process. But no, it's really interesting to hear how that unfolds. So thank you for explaining, Jamie. And Jess, thank you for your question. If there's a question that you'd like to ask us, something you're wondering about, a gap that we can fill in in this case, please get in touch. [email protected] is where you can reach us. We do read them all. And if you're sending us feedback, we're also listening and taking that on board as well. Jamie, where are we off to next?

• 32:57Speaker 02

  Well, the jury hasn't been told, you know, exactly who we're hearing from next, but it seems like the general theme of the witnesses that we've been hearing from are to do with relationship type evidence, particularly to do with Jessie Baird. So as we've talked about, we've heard from relatives, close friends, people who he was speaking to in the lead up about things that were happening. So it seems like that is the theme that will continue at this point in the trial.

• 33:21Stephen Stockwell?

  Yep, plenty more witnesses to hear from. Jamie, thank you so much for taking us through this.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 33:26Stephen Stockwell?

  We're back in your feed on Tuesday next week. Make sure you get around ABC Listen, best place to listen to The Case of when our episodes are dropping, they're appearing there slightly before they appear anywhere else. You can also watch us on YouTube, watch us on ABC Listen, or if you're listening on other podcast platform, just leave us a rating or review because it makes it much easier for people to find us.

• 33:47Stephen Stockwell?

  The Case of Jessie and Luke is produced by ABC Audio Studios and ABC News. This episode was reported by Jamie McKinnon and presented by me, Stephen Stockwell. Our supervising producers are Greg Muller and Jess Wookieanob, and our executive producer is Claire Rawlinson. A big thank you to video producer Dylan Bean, also to senior lawyer, our legal queen, Jasmine Sims, for her legal advice, to the New South Wales newsroom, and to Audio Studios manager, Eric George. This episode was produced on the land of the Gadigal, and we're on Dru people.