Leadership Lessons That Will Break You and Build You with Craig Groeschel

Are you holding yourself back from leading at your highest level? In this incredible conversation, I sit down with my good friend Craig Groeschel—someone I admire deeply, not just for what he’s accomplished, but for the man he is at his core. We get real about leadership—what it means to empower others, to listen, to ask better questions, and to build a culture that thrives whether you’re in the room or not. Craig shares candidly about the lessons he’s learned over nearly 30 years leading one of the largest churches in the country and launching the YouVersion Bible App that’s impacted millions. One of the things that really hit home in this episode is how Craig talks about the shift from thinking leadership is about you to realizing it’s about what happens when you’re not there. We break down how great leaders give authority, not just tasks, and how that’s the key to developing other leaders rather than creating followers. And yes, we go into the hard stuff—the criticism, the self-doubt, the moments where you feel like playing it safe. Craig doesn’t shy away from those moments, and neither do I in this conversation. We also talk about something that’s been huge for me this year—surrender. Craig shares what it really means to give up control where it’s not ours to begin with, and why trusting God with the things we can’t shape frees us to lead with greater courage and faith. This episode isn’t about theory—it’s about real tools you can put into practice starting today. How to shift from controlling to empowering so you can build leaders, not just followers. Why your effectiveness as a leader is measured by what happens when you’re absent, not present. The habits that anchor Craig’s leadership and how to create your own keystone habits. A fresh approach to giving and receiving feedback that builds trust and fuels growth. The difference between showing love and showing belief—and why your team (and family) needs both. How to handle self-doubt and stop playing it safe in your vision and leadership. What true surrender looks like in your leadership and life. Here’s what you’ll take away from this episode:If this conversation moves you the way it did me, do yourself a favor—share it, take action on it, and let it change the way you lead. Max out your life, my friends! 👉 SUBSCRIBE TO ED'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW 👈 → → → CONNECT WITH ED MYLETT ON SOCIAL MEDIA: ← ← ← ➡️ INSTAGRAM ➡️FACEBOOK ➡️ LINKEDIN ➡️ X ➡️ WEBSITE Get my exclusive Monday Motivation training in GrowthDay, the world’s #1 app for advanced mindset and personal development. Visit https://growthday.com/ed. This show is sponsored by GrowthDay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ed Mylett?

  So hey guys, listen, we're all trying to get more productive and the question is, how do you find a way to get an edge? I'm a big believer that if you're getting mentoring or you're in an environment that causes growth, a growth-based environment, that you're much more likely to grow and you're going to grow faster. And that's why I love Growth Day. Growth Day is an app that my friend Brendan Burchard has created that I'm a big fan of. Write this down, growthday.com/ed. So if you want to be more productive, by the way, he's asked me, I post videos in there every single Monday that gets your day off to the right start. He's got about $5,000, $10,000 worth of courses that are in there that come with the app. Also, some of the top influencers in the world are all posting content and they're on a regular basis, like having the Avengers of personal development and business in one app. And I'm honored that he asked me to be a part of it as well and contribute on a weekly basis, and I do.

• 0:45Ed Mylett?

  So go over there and get signed up. You're going to get a free, tuition-free voucher to go to an event with Brendan and myself and a bunch of other influencers as well. So you get a free event out of it also. So go to growthday.com/ed. That's growthday.com/ed. I hear so many small business owners say the exact same thing. They just never have enough time in the day. Well, I measure time differently. I've compressed, condensed, heck, I've bent time. My first day is 6:00 a.m. to noon. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6:00 p.m. And my third day, 6:00 p.m. to midnight. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month, over a year, over five years, and my life's completely different than it would have been otherwise.

• 1:27Ed Mylett?

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• 2:05Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com slash superior access to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 2:38Ed Mylett?

  This is the Ed Miliband Show.

• 2:42Ed Mylett?

  All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. So today's guest is, um, he's one of the men in the world I admire the most. And I'm really honored that he's here today. There's so many things about him. This isn't a normal podcast for me, you guys, because I can tell you that he's a friend of mine, but I, I look up to him and I aspire to be more like him. I think it's probably the biggest compliment you can give another man is that you want to be more like him. And I do with him. We're going to talk about leadership today, everybody, even though we could talk about a bunch of different things with this man, but he's immensely qualified to do it. Just so you know, he leads one of the largest organizations in the United States and the largest church, by the way. He's the senior pastor and founder of Life Church, but he's also a very successful businessman,

• 3:27Ed Mylett?

  but he doesn't like to talk about it a lot. And he founded this little app called the U version Bible app. The Bible app's only been downloaded about 500 million times and counting. So he knows a little bit about the digital space and creating a business as well. He's the host of the Craig Groshoe Leadership Podcast, which is good because his name is actually Craig Groshoe. So Craig, welcome to the show. Good to have you here.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Hey, Ed, uh, man, the, uh, the respect is mutual. The, um, the first time we met, it took about five minutes for me to see why you're so successful. And it's not just your muscles. It's, uh, the, uh, the, the way you treat people and, um, who you are as a person is something that I admire. And so it's, man, it's, it's a true blessing, um, to be on with you.

• 4:14Ed Mylett?

  I told him I wore my schmiedium shirt today just to hang in there with him. Because if you're, if you're on audio, which most of you are, he's the most jacked pastor in the world as well, so. Um, we're going to talk about leadership today. And by the way, those of you listening, you go, I'm not even leading an organization. You do lead yourself and you are probably leading your family and we're going to go there as well. But I want to ask you the hardest leadership question first because it's the one when I get asked it, I have the toughest time answering, then we'll go to the softball stuff. So here's the tough one. What is something you believed about leadership when you were younger that you no longer believe? And it's kind of vastly different than when you were younger?

• 4:51Speaker 02

  I don't think anybody's ever asked me that question. The very first thing that comes to my mind is I used to believe that I was really good.

• 4:57Ed Mylett?

  Really?

• 4:59Speaker 02

  When I started out in leadership, I had way more confidence in myself in, in the wrong ways. And I thought I knew what I was doing. And I recognized just how dangerous that was. I mean, I literally did. Some people aren't going to like that answer. I'll give you a different one. But that's the very first thing that comes to my mind is I used to think that I was really good and important. And I will follow up with that. What I've realized is, yes, I am effective today. And yes, I am important, but not in the ways that I thought. That, that my importance isn't measured by what I know, but by who I empower. My importance isn't based on what happens when I'm present, but it's actually

• 5:39Speaker 02

  measured by what happens when I'm absent. And so I really overvalued my own gifts, knowledge and presence. And I recognized that was a massive, massive, massive mistake.

• 5:51Ed Mylett?

  I relate to that, actually. I realize as I get older, how little I knew about leadership and currently now, I'm learning stuff all the time. Well, you just said about what happens when you're absent, though. I don't think I've ever heard somebody say that before. It's really, really true. He's also authored like 15 books, you guys, and he won't talk about it today. But I will. So I just want to say this as he goes in, I have the workbook here. He has a book out right now called Benefit of Doubt. And those of you that are believers, go grab that book because we're going to talk about leadership today because he wants to serve the audience. But that book is incredible. I read it cover to cover. I have not read the workbook. But go ahead. I interrupted you. What were you saying?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I was just, I was just thinking about the whole absence thing. For example, like, you know, when, the first time I talked to you, I tried to understand what you do. And it was so complex, so many different moving pieces. And, you know, Entire different realms of business. And so I'm like, well, how do you do it? And you know, your answer as well is great people and great people and great people and such. And that's like the key in what I do. We have one church that meets in forty five different locations, twelve different states. And again, for example, this week I'll go and I'll visit one and I will not get up on the platform and talk. I will not, I've never done it. I won't speak there.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  And the reason is because if I do, I'm going to be sending a message. And that is to the, the local pastor, move over a little pastor, the main guys in town. And I don't want to do that. So it's what I'm, what I'm going to do there is going to help him succeed by being strategically invisible. And by serving him, the only thing I'll do is I'll, I'll love on people in the lobby, but I won't stand up. I won't greet people from the stage. I won't preach from the stage. So it's what happens when I'm not there or what I'm not doing that actually helps him succeed. And that's a really different thing than I recognized earlier. And so for me to really help other people be their best, I have to be absent. Same, same is true in hiring.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  You know, we have a fairly big staff. And so I'll ask people, which interviews do you think I'm involved in? Did I interview my assistant? Well, yes, of course. Did I interview our CFO who oversees hundreds of million dollars? Well, of course, the, the COO of you version, it'll be a billion apps this year, like literally a billion. Did I interview that person? Well, of course, the person who oversees all seventy five youth pastors, yes. The person who oversees ten campus pastors, of course. Do I interview campus pastors? They oversee a whole church, yes. On and on and on. And I get to the end of it and say, the only person I interviewed in the last ten years was my direct assistant. None of the other ones.

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  And people, people are shocked by that, but again. In the early years, I interviewed and trained everybody, every single person.

• 8:39Ed Mylett?

  Right.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  But as time goes on, the less I'm involved, the more it gives other people the chance to grow. The more that it says, I'm not the most important, but there are other important people there. And so it's, it's, and again, back to your first question is, today I realize that the most effective parts of our ministry are the parts that happen without me. And that's, that's why, you know, your answer early on, when I was asking you like, how do you do it? And you're like, it was all about the right people. And it hundred percent is about the right people. But if I am, if I'm really involved in everything, then I'm keeping other people from being involved. And our retention rate here is unbelievable.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  And I'm blessed, my top three leaders have been with me for 28 of the almost 30 years. Meaning the whole ride since I met them, they've stayed with me. Well, how do we do that? The answer is I let them lead, right? I am out of their way. They've got autonomy to create, to make decisions. You cannot build great leaders if you're controlling and you can't retain them if you're controlling. So I have, I have to be the most empowering leader I can be.

• 9:48Ed Mylett?

  You're making me think, uh, you know, I probably younger and maybe even recently, I probably do suppress people's growth by being too involved from time to time. By the way, I told everybody in the introduction, this is going to be an incredible conversation, you guys. You, you don't get access to someone who's done what Craig's done and then have the ability to articulate the thoughts like Craig does. There's, there's a handful. In fact, I'm going to compliment you. I ran into, I'll say who it was, I ran into Zach Johnson, the, the golfer, our, my financial firm sponsors. I mean, I ran into him this week and we were commiserating over like great leaders that we knew. And we both landed on Dabo Sweeney, the coach at Clemson. And I said to him, I said, isn't it interesting of all the CEOs that I've met that run these big companies? Believe it or not, the great leaders I've met, I would put on the top of the list are ironically,

• 10:33Ed Mylett?

  they are guys who run college football teams, a few of them, basketball teams.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:38Ed Mylett?

  And a couple of the pastors that I know. I would rank them ahead of the corporate CEO types that I've been around. And he says, that's actually been my experience as well. And I was, I didn't say your name, but I was thinking of you. I was thinking of Chris Hodges, obviously John Maxwell from the past and others. So you said something interesting, and I want to go to this point. You did ask me a lot of questions when we first met. You almost wrestled the conversation from me because it's typically what I try to do. And I want to ask you about leadership. We always think about casting a vision and speaking and stuff, but how important has listening skills and asking the right questions been for you as a leader? And how important do you think it is overall?

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Well, you're right. You are difficult to talk to because you were asking so many questions. And I didn't want to talk about me because you know, you're at, you're at my left. And, and I wanted to learn from you. I actually just did two entire podcast sessions on asking questions and, and you know, the, the, the quality of the information you get is a reflection of the quality of the questions that you ask. And what, what I've found in leadership is most of the time, Ed, when you walk into a room, people are expecting you to talk. And so as leaders, we feel that pressure. And so we say, hey, here's what we're going to do today. And if we're talking all the time, then we just know what we know. And it takes

• 11:58Speaker 02

  a lot of discipline for us to shut our faces and to ask questions. And then it takes a, it takes a really strategic and intentional question to actually get true answers. Because the more successful you become, the more people are going to tell you what they think that you want to hear. And that's deadly, deadly. And if we can't get truth out of people, I think it was Andy Stanley said, um, you know, if we don't listen to people, we'll eventually be surrounded by people who have nothing to say. So true. That a lot of us in our egos, you know, we'll just talk all the time. And then we, we kind of create yes people, we create doers, not leaders. And it's the same in delegation. If, if we just delegate tasks,

• 12:40Speaker 02

  like just go do this thing, we are creating followers. We're creating people who are told what to do, do what they're told to do. If instead we delegate authority, which is you have permission to go create something, then we're creating leaders. And so I think, and here's something you do really, really, really well. I call it asking the third question. Everybody asks the first one, like, hey, tell me about yourself. What do you do? And then, and you're great at this. I mean, your interviews are some of the best. And then you'll, you'll hear something, you'll say, well, tell me more about that. Then you get to the third question, which is kind of where the buried gold is. And you'll say, it's like your story, like, why are you Ed Mylett?

• 13:23Speaker 02

  And the answer is because you're disciplined and strong and smart. Okay, yeah, actually, let's go a step below that. Well, it's because you were raised in a more difficult life and you had to overcome. So let's go a step below that. Your dad was an alcoholic, a drug addict. You had nothing and there was a will, a fight, a drive in you that was born early on. This helped shape everything about you. It's that third level that you tend to get to, that that's where the, that's where the magic is. That's where the gold is. And so as leaders, we have to work really, really, really hard to get beneath the surface, beneath even, even just like, just the numbers, like, what do the numbers say? Okay, we know what they say. Why do they say that? What's causing it? What are they telling us?

• 14:08Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  We have to, we have to ask really, really hard questions to get great answers so that we can lead great organizations.

• 14:13Ed Mylett?

  It's so good. Yeah, the other thing, I was thinking of great leaders I've worked with, not, not only are you right about going deeper with your questions, but I think people want to be listened to, especially in a one-on-one too. Like, when I've done, when I've been done with great leaders, I'm like, what do they have in common, the person, they're tremendous listeners. I really feel like they listen to me. So not only do you get better answers, but there's some sort of connection, I think, that happens with a group of people or two people together when you've gone deeper than that. You know, I've always wanted to ask you, because I have this. Now that I've got to know you a little bit, you are intense. You're an intense man. In fact, at we first met, I mean, you love Amy so much, you love your family, you love Jesus so much, all those things become apparent.

• 14:58Ed Mylett?

  But my first guess, had I met you at a concert or a grocery store, would not be pastor. Because you run pretty hot. You're an intense man. I'm wondering if in your life, you had to learn as a leader to throttle that back a little bit or how to couch it. When I was young, my intensity pushed people away to some extent. I didn't, I didn't relate to people that didn't want to run at my pace. I was gruff. I think I was abrasive. I don't think I was. I know I was. And over time, I think even having children, I was like, if someone talked to my son the way I sometimes talk to people, that wouldn't be okay with

• 15:40Ed Mylett?

  me. Have you had that? And did you have to navigate that in your personality at all?

• 15:45Speaker 02

  A hundred percent in every day. So if we go all the way back, I was a business major in college when I became a Christian and I then felt called to ministry, but I never thought to change my major. So I was just, I, you know, I was buying rental properties in college. I ended up having four properties in college. Then I became a pastor and I got rejected for ordination because the first time they said, because you think too much like a business person, not enough like a pastor. And so I felt like a failure. Like, okay, I need to think more like a pastor. I had no idea that you could be a great pastor and have a great business mind. And why shouldn't you? Right? I would say this about you, Ed,

• 16:26Speaker 02

  you're a businessman, but you've kind of got a pastoral heart with people, right? Meaning, you can be a really good friend and care for people. So I would say this, I had some extremes and I started to be embarrassed by my extremes and make excuses for my extremes and manage my extremes. And then it took a little while longer to realize that greatness is born in the extremes. It's born, it's born in extremes. You know, society tries to make you, let's make everybody a well-rounded person. Well, you don't want to hire someone who's well-rounded, do you? You want to hire someone who is bad at almost everything and great at, at something. And so I had to give myself both permission to press into my extremes.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  And at the same time, this is super important, not to hold everybody else to the same standards I have for myself. Very, very important. So I'm going to be as weird, unique, different and extreme as I can be without apology. But I cannot hold other people to that same, not me, that I'm my same gifts, they don't have this, they don't have the same support network I have, right? So they can't push it. It'd be unfair to push them. So I'll have to say, hey, here's what I'm going to hold myself to, but you, you don't have to do this. Or there are times when my excitement level, I do have to bring it back down a few notches and say, if I come in this hot, it's going to be too much. And I have to, to have to know that.

• 17:58Ed Mylett?

  That is massively good advice, you guys. I already know what I'm going to do with this. I can already tell you, my son is going to get a chance to listen to this and my daughter before the world because I already, this is so good. Let me ask you about criticism.

• 18:12Ed Mylett?

  So, hey guys, I want to jump in here for a second and talk about change and growth. And you know, by the way, it's no secret how people get ahead in life or how they grow. And also taking a look at the future. If you want to change your future, you got to change the things you're doing. If you continue to do the same things, you're probably going to produce the same results. But if you get into a new environment where you're learning new things and you're around other people that are growth oriented, you're much more likely to do that yourself. And that's why I love Growth Day. Write this down for a second. Growth day.com forward slash ed. My friend Brendon Burchard has created the most incredible personal development and business app that I've ever seen in my life. Everything from goal setting software to personal accountability, journaling, courses, thousands of dollars worth of courses in there as well.

• 18:53Ed Mylett?

  I create content in there on Mondays where I contribute, as do a whole bunch of other influencers, like the Avengers of influencers and business minds in there. It's the Netflix for high achievers or people that want to be high achievers. So go check it out. My friend Brennan's made it very affordable, very easy to get involved. Go to growthday.com forward slash ed. That's growthday.com forward slash ed. This episode is sponsored by Ro. A lot of people assume GLP-1's cost a fortune, and that assumption keeps them from even looking into treatment. Ro helps people find a more affordable path to FDA-approved GLP-1 treatment. Ro wants to help people lose weight. That's why they have more affordable GLP-1 options, whether you're paying with insurance or cash. Ro's free insurance checker makes it easy to see if you're covered for GLP-1 injections.

• 19:37Ed Mylett?

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• 20:21Ed Mylett?

  And that's where Wayfair came in. My wife wanted to get this new garden bed, and Wayfair was the place that offered the perfect solution. Wayfair also helps you create a home that stands up to real life with quality products, great value, and trusted reviews. Wayfair verified products are hand-vetted by product specialists that use a 10-point quality inspection system. Here's all I can tell you. The stuff has lasted over time. It looks great, and I get compliments on it. Shop thousands of products across every style and budget, whether you're trying to refresh your space for fall or transform your space for Halloween. Use filters, custom photos, and reviews to find the right fit for your home. More than 20 million verified 5-star reviews. 20 million. So transform your space with the pieces that hold up to real life. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase.

• 21:03Ed Mylett?

  Head to wayfair.com or shop the Wayfair app for all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 21:17Ed Mylett?

  There's things I've always wanted to know about you that I'm going to everybody listen to, but it's for me. Because you do, you are intense and you do have a high standard. You know, I've navigated this all my career. You know, like, I try to be the Jesus CEO, you know, which I fail at 99.78% of the time or higher. But he did rebuke the apostles, right? There is rebuke. I mean, but there's a way to do it, I guess, right? And so, do you have any lessons for us as a leader, even with our children or in business, of how to give constructive feedback, criticism, etc.?

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm so glad you asked that. Like, I would say here, at our church, we got, you know, like I said, really great people. We were named a couple of times by Glass Doors, the best place to work. And it's really, really hard to work here. I would say, one of the driving values that creates a great work environment is the ability to give and receive helpful feedback. Hands down. You have to do it. And so, it's massively important. When we interview people, what we'll do is we'll have them draw a topic, and then they have to get up and give like a five-minute talk on that topic. They think that we're trying to see how good they are at giving a talk. That's part of it. But we have, if we've got eight candidates, we have them all give a little talk, and then we have them

• 22:40Speaker 02

  critique each other. And what we're trying to do is not see how good they are giving a talk. What we're trying to do, and they don't know this, is we want to know, how good are you at giving and receiving feedback? Because if you can't give it, you're not going to be valuable to us. If you can't receive it, you can't grow. And so, at the very, very beginning, in the interview process, we're testing for the ability to give and receive feedback. Then, we do something at our 45 campuses, we have, we call them stage drills, where almost every week, they'll draw a name, and someone will get up on the stage, and they'll pitch something like, hey, we want you to serve in life kids, or we want you to volunteer for this thing. And then, the rest of them give feedback. And again, it is not to help develop stage communicators. This is an exercise that teaches

• 23:25Speaker 02

  everybody to give and receive helpful feedback. In order for this to work, I have to lead the way in giving and receiving feedback. So, before I ever give a message... I just gave a message last weekend. I will, I promise you, I had five, six, or seven different groups of people come in my office.

• 23:43Ed Mylett?

  Really?

• 23:44Speaker 02

  I talked through, through the message with them on the front side. And I said, wha- what would you cut? What do you like? How close is this to being done? Okay, you're a 23-year-old, single girl. What are you seeing that I don't see? Um, where are my, uh, where's my humor not where? And so I ask all these questions. I get feedback on the front end and then it helps me to do better in the message. Everybody knows that I receive feedback and if I model it, then it'll be true for our organization. If I don't, we have, we have no potential for growth. We have no potential for growth. And here's the bottom line. You're an athlete, so you understand that. This, if, if I hired you on the team and I gave you feedback, do you think I care about you or not?

• 24:25Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  If I don't give you any feedback, I don't care.

• 24:27Ed Mylett?

  Yep. Or believe in you, or I don't believe in you.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  If, if you're great, I'm giving you more feedback. Why? Because I believe in you. And so we try to help people see that this is, is always an expression of love and care and belief. If I've given up on somebody, I'm not giving them feedback. I'm just trying to get rid of them. If I care about them, I've given them feedback. And so that is, and, and admittedly, kind of the emerging generation, uh, we do, we have a lot of younger staff members. Uh, it's a little bit more difficult for them. And so what we have to do is we are, it's literally teaching, here's how you give it. Here's how you receive it. And we, we even teach like, say, thank you for that because you, you obviously care. And then when you apply it, you come back and say, here's how it made a difference.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  For example, a staff member gave me an example of something to add in the message. And so I did it and I came back to their office this week and said, hey, I just want you to know what you told me last week. I added it. And then that, that celebrates the feedback. So it is indescribably essential for, in an organization to be healthy, to have great feedback.

• 25:33Ed Mylett?

  Yeah. And by the way, modeling it, that term you just took, you know, said is modeling it yourself. That's, that's the, the standard in the culture. Why is it, uh, harder with younger people? Is it this, these times with all the stuff on social media and they're sensitive? Or what, what did you mean when you said that? Like harder with the younger people? Or just because they're newer to the world?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's a combination of things, you know, one is like I'm a Gen Xer. And so we were, we were last few kids, our parents basically threw us out of the house and we were on our own. And so there was just a sense of, we just, you know, by nature, we were tougher. But then what happened, then, then we became the helicopter parents. And so we, because our parents weren't there, we were, and we became so controlling and so protective that everybody got a participation ribbon and, and everyone's told, told they're great. And that's just not the most loving thing you can do. There's times when you need to say, you're actually not very good at that. Let's go do something else, you know?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  And so I don't blame the younger generation for being more sensitive. I blame my generation for, um, by robbing the emerging generation of some of the things that helped create a resilient spirit. So, you know, we, we all have strengths and weaknesses and there's so many good qualities. Um, with, uh, with Gen Z coming up, really, really qualities I like and admire. Uh, but one of the developmental areas is to help them understand that, hey, when I'm giving you feedback, it's actually because I'm, I care about you. And once you get better, I'm not criticizing, I'm not tearing you down. I actually see greatness in you and I'm helping try to pull it out. So there's just, what I find is in that generation, sometimes we have to give a little bit more context

• 27:21Speaker 02

  for them to understand it and then, then they get really passionate about it.

• 27:25Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, by the way, I do think this younger generation wants to contribute and serve, uh, as much as I've seen, they want to be a part of something bigger than themselves.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Very mission minded, so, so many good qualities. And Gen Z is getting a little scrappier too. They're seeing their older brothers and sisters broke and struggling and they're going like, I, I don't want to be that. I'm, I'm, I want to save some money, I want to work hard. And, and so it, there's, there's cycles in every generation, right?

• 27:50Ed Mylett?

  You're right. You know, I was, uh, my, my, both my children, Max and Bella were here for Easter. They're both Bella home from college and Max home from golf and they're both here. And I was thinking about, uh, being a leader. I knew we were going to talk and I had already wanted to go in a little bit of a direction with leadership with you on the show. And then you confirmed it this morning. It was almost like kind of an answer to prayer. And I'll tell you what happened this weekend. I was with them both, this is personal, but I always do this on the show. My kids know I love them and the people that work with me know I love them and care about them. It's something I'm pretty good at expressing. Belief, though, is a different thing than love. It's correlated, but it's different. And my daughter came over and she just passed her real estate test and she's doing great. And we had a little session together and she walked away and I'm like,

• 28:35Ed Mylett?

  check the box. She knows I believe in her so deeply, the way I communicate with her. My son and I then had a different session together. I'll call it a session, long conversation. Clearly knows his dad loves him, but we were kind of going back and forth on what he's doing. And when he walked away, you know, you just kind of watch your kids sometimes walk away from you. It's your baby. And I went, I wonder, am I doing as good a job as he's gotten older at him knowing his dad believes in him as I did when he was younger? Is that box fully checked? Like this young man goes out in the world, my dad loves me, he knows. My dad believes in me. The man I look up to the most, which is usually your father, believes in me deeply.

• 29:17Ed Mylett?

  And I just had this sense in my spirit, not enough, not enough. And I made this mental note, fix that, pour into him more belief, right? What do you do as a, is it the same as a dad, as a granddad, as a business leader? Are you cognizant of that distinction of belief? And or anything that you're conscious of doing to, to pour into people belief? As opposed to just, I care about you and I love you?

• 29:45Speaker 02

  So I'm really glad you asked that, Ed. And I'm going to ask you this. Do you remember what my favorite podcast of yours is still to this day?

• 29:53Ed Mylett?

  I assume it's the one with my kids.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 29:56Ed Mylett?

  That's what you told me on the voice note. You told me on the voice note, yeah.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Yes, it is. And, and you've had some fantastic ones, but who you are as a parent and your relationship with your kids, that's, I mean, that's a bigger blessing than owning an island.

• 30:11Ed Mylett?

  Sure is.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  That's, that's a really, really big deal. And so, you know, you ask about how do you communicate belief and not just love? As a parent, it's interesting. The father-son dynamic is often different than the father-daughter dynamic. The, the son, so often he wants to please you based on how he performs. And he's going to, you know, your son's going to measure himself up against you. And that's a, that's a pretty, pretty tough. Tool of comparison. And so one of the things that we have to do is, is help people know that we value not just what they do, but who they are. And in work and as parents, we almost always go to the do, like, hey, great game, or, you know, you did a great job on that project.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  And that's, I am so biased to performance that I have to stop over and over again as a dad and as a leader and say, they don't want to be just loved by what they do, because if they are, then we're using them. But they want to be valued for who they are. And so like today is administrative assistant day and today we're recording this. So I wrote my assistant a note because her love language is words of encouragement. And I tried to talk about who she is as a person more than what she does. Every day she does things that she runs my world and it's amazing. What she does is valuable, but who she is, is meaningful. And so it's, we have to, the more

• 31:41Speaker 02

  driven we are, the more biased we are toward action. But the best way to communicate care and value is not by celebrating action, but by celebrating character, who they are. And so that as a dad, like especially with my sons, my daughters, there's more of a nurturing relationship that's natural. My sons, I love them like crazy, but I know they're going, Dad, are you proud of what I did? And so what I try to do is say, I just can't, I'm so proud of who you are. And then, then talk about the qualities, like the fact that you're working for purity, the fact that you're, you really are striving to be a godly man. And I mean, they're crushing it in ministry, their, their numbers and impact are great. But I try to go

• 32:26Speaker 02

  to the who before the do. And, and that, that's

• 32:32Speaker 02

  It's effective, but it's hard to do, especially for people with success, goal-oriented mindset.

• 32:40Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, you're so performance-oriented. I'm gonna stop telling you how good everything is. We're just gonna keep going, but shoot, man, this is so good. How do you, you and I are both habits people, right? We're both habitual. And the reason that that matters is at scale habits matter. Under pressure habits matter and under fatigue habits matter, right? Let's talk leadership habits for a second. Are there a few that stand out to you that if you don't do these things habitually? You know, and some of them guys want to avoid, people want to avoid in general, ladies and men want to avoid as a leader. What are some of those things that for you, like these are just cornerstone habits? And you can't avoid them. What are some of those?

• 33:26Speaker 02

  So let me, let me talk first general and then I'll get specific. And it was Charles Duhigg who wrote The Power of Habit. He talked about keystone habits. Fascinating story, I think of Alcoa Steel, a company that was struggling. They brought in a CEO. Who said, this is gonna be the safest place to work. And they all thought, well, that's kind of dumb. And but it'll change. Well, he did that for months and months and months. And what they didn't realize is when they tried to become safe, it changed how they hired, how they interviewed, the systems they created, the processes that involved their communication. And suddenly they became profitable. Why? Because they had one habit that created lots of other positive habits. And so

• 34:07Speaker 02

  what you know in your life, Ed, and everybody listening is there are certain habits that if we have this one or one or two or three things in place, then they compound into other really positive habits. And the opposite is true. If we're not doing that one or two things, then negative things that happen. And I joke around about my keystone habit being flossing, which is silly and it kind of is. But if I floss, because I hate flossing, it triggers something in my mind that says, wow, you do what's right even when you don't like it. I'm a disciplined person. So therefore, I get up earlier, I eat right in the morning, some discipline, I do my Bible study, I get to work earlier than anybody, I work harder, I come home

• 34:48Speaker 02

  in a good mood because I was productive. My wife loves me. We have six kids. Why? Because I floss. And I'm slightly exaggerating. But if I don't floss, I don't feel disciplined and so I might sleep in later, don't have time to do my Bible study, don't prepare a good breakfast, so I pick up a donut on the way.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  I don't feel as healthy, so I don't exercise. I, I have a bad day, I come home, I'm not as good a husband and, and my wife doesn't like me or whatever. And, and, and again, I'm obviously exaggerating, but not by much.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  There are certain things that have compounding positive or negative effects. And so as a leader, for me, it starts in the morning and that you're, you're going to find that almost every time, I guarantee you, you did not sleep until nine thirty today. I, I bet my entire life on it, that you are probably more productive before seven o'clock this morning than many people are in, in the whole day. And so what, what you want to do is you want to decide what are the habits in your life that create, that are positive habits. Um, and then you develop them. They're not going to be the same for anybody, but for me, you know, they're, they're like, exercising is as spiritual as Bible study.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  I have to do it. It's, it's for my mind, my soul, my marriage. It's for my relationship with God. It's, it's a, it's a way I honor God with my body. I, if I'm not going to honor him with my mind, but with my, my, I'm going to listen to something today. I was listening to one of your podcasts last night. Why? Because I'm developing my mind. And so, so I have a lot of little habits that have created a lot more habits. And, and it's not because I'm a disciplined person. The, the reality is I'm undisciplined. I love donuts. I love sleeping in. I love vegging. I love being lazy. So I have to choose the right behaviors that create the right results. And then you learn to love them.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  When I started eating healthy fifteen years ago, I didn't like it. Well, now. I don't like the junk food I used to love because your appetite changes for what's good if you start with the right habits. So I can be specific if you want, but that's kind of a general thought process.

• 37:03Ed Mylett?

  No, no, no. I, I, I'm a big believer, Charles has been on the show a couple of times, in this Keystone Habit concept as well. And ironically, this is no joke, you guys, we did not confer on this, and I've never heard him say this before. I have a podcast where I talk about my catalyst habit is flossing. I'm not exaggerating. It's a fact. It's because I don't like doing it. It's tedious. I used to feel like I just get away with not doing it. Just brush your teeth, whatever, right? And because I don't want to do it, I do it. And then I kind of moved into something cold in the morning. I don't want to do it. I don't do it for any anti-inflammatory properties. I do it because I don't want to do it. And I'm, I now put myself, as you've said, in the category of freak. I'm doing things other people aren't willing to do. I am this disciplined person.

• 37:46Ed Mylett?

  And it just sets me on this path. I always want to ask you, such a big organization, I want to kind of take a turn.

• 37:53Ed Mylett?

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• 38:38Ed Mylett?

  Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com/ed for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash ed. So you know, I've been trying to take my health and my morning routine to the next level. And I used to do a whole bunch of different stuff, tons of different supplements. And then I found all in one in a drink with IM8. IM8 is the way to simplify your supplement routine, finally, once and for all. 16 supplements replaced 90 ingredients across nine major organ systems in one drink. You can have all these supplements for $2.61 a day. I've changed my mornings. The whole IM8 routine has changed my mornings.

• 39:22Ed Mylett?

  I feel great and I bring energy to the entire day. Go to IM8health.com/Ed10 right now, or click the link in the description and use code ED10 for a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, plus 10% off your order. That's code ED10 at IM8health.com/Ed10. Code ED10 at IM8health.com/Ed10. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. How do you keep culture? This is one for the business people in here. How do you keep culture at scale?

• 40:02Ed Mylett?

  You know, you got a six-person group, or when you first started the church, there's 15, 20, 40, 50 people there. Controlling the culture is doable, right? If you're cognizant of it, if you're even cognizant of culture. Some leaders aren't even cognizant of culture at all. But at scale, and then digitally, often like how you've been growing, in addition to the general locations, that has to have been a challenge for you. So what would your answer? Because I get asked this a lot in my business coaching, and I don't know that I have a great answer for it.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  So it's very challenging. So Ed, we, you know, we went from one location to maybe 11, 12, 13. And we entered a really bad season where the culture got away from us. And there were subcultures, they were not healthy. And the challenge is, you know, what is your culture? Your culture is a combination of what you create and what you allow. Period. That's all it is. It's your standards. What do we celebrate? What do we tolerate? And everybody has a culture. Not every culture is created intentionally. Some of them are, you know, we come in, we turn the lights on, we listen to whoever's screaming, we solve problems that we see, turn the lights off and go home. That's not a healthy culture, but it is a culture.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  And so if you don't like your culture, you have to change what you're tolerating, what you're creating. We got to where we had like, I don't know, 11, 12, 13 locations. And it was, they were not consistent. Some of them were not healthy. There were really bad behaviors in there. And I thought we'd lost it. Like, I don't know how we're gonna ever get this back. And what I realized is that great cultures never happen by accident. They're always intentional. And what creates the culture? Well, what we believe determines what we do. What we believe determines what we do. How we, how we think determines how we behave. So we have to over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, drive the values that make us who we are.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  What values do we have? Well, you know, there's a lot that goes into creating values. A lot of people have words. I like to create statements because statements create emotion. So in church, evangelism is a word that means reaching the lost. We don't say evangelism. We say, we'll do anything short of sin to reach people who don't know Christ. To reach people no one's reaching, we'll have to do things no one's doing. We'll do anything short of sin to reach people who don't know Christ. To reach people no one's reaching, we'll have to do things no one's doing. That creates emotion. We'll say this. We don't, the church does not exist for us. We are the church and we exist for the world. And so we are not spiritual consumers, we're spiritual contributors. The church doesn't exist for us. We're the church we exist for the world.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  We say these things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again to change how we think. Because if we do not, what happens? Vision leaks and culture drifts. Vision leaks. Here's what we're about. And after a while, people forget. Culture drifts. The culture never drifts toward better by accident. Why? Because we take the easiest path. We take the road of least resistance. We move towards what's easy. Creating a great culture is hard. How do we do it? Well, three things. We have to be very, very clear about what we expect. Here's what we expect. And then we have to reward it when we see it, and we correct it when we don't.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  That's it. That's how you create a culture. Here's what we expect. Here's what we believe. Here's, here's what we value. And we reward it when we see it, we correct it when we don't. And that is in many ways, our job. It's a big part of it.

• 43:37Ed Mylett?

  Huge.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Is we are creating the beliefs and the values that drive the behaviors. And then we want aligning systems and we want the right people. Um, you know, and we want to make sure resource allocation is, you know, consistent with all these things. What is great leadership is getting the right people, is creating the right culture, is developing the right systems, is allocating resources the right way. And of those big things, you can't be successful in any of them without a healthy culture.

• 44:07Ed Mylett?

  See, everybody, you forget for a while that you're listening to a pastor. And I've, I've submitted this over and over and over again. You show me anything that's flourishing in this country, in this world today. I don't care if it's a church, a scout troop, right? A business, you name it, a sports team, I'm going to show you something being led by a leader. A real leader and a group of leaders that they've developed. And that's what you're hearing here today. Period. End of story.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  For fun, and to just as a pastor, if I can just about talk about my faith and we share the same belief system. If you ever look at Jesus through a leadership lens, tell me what you see. Okay, he's the son of God. He was sinless. He, he died and rose again to save the world. That's the heart of the story. What did he pull off? He recruited 12 people that others overlooked.

• 45:00Ed Mylett?

  Yep.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  He imparted kingdom values. He created a kingdom culture. He empowered, he delegated. How did he delegate? He said, I'm gonna go away, I'm gonna send you out, go into all the world, preach the gospel, baptize the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He gave them the what? He gave them the where? He did not give them the how? He didn't delegate task, he delegated authority.

• 45:22Ed Mylett?

  Oh my goodness.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  He went away, he sent the Holy Spirit, and here we are 2,000 years later in an organization known as the church with still doing the work of God. Why? Because Jesus came and selected some people, empowered them, gave them the vision. Here's why I came. I didn't come for this reason, I came for this reason. Here's the vision, here's the kingdom cultures, here's how we love, how we treat people. He released them. That's leadership.

• 45:47Ed Mylett?

  Gosh, so good. And by the way, everybody, if you don't know the story, this was a ragtag army too. He didn't, he didn't pick what everybody would think was the perfect resume and the perfect background and the perfect this or that.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Every religious organization would have rejected him.

• 46:00Ed Mylett?

  That's right, exactly.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Every single one. And so that's why I don't recruit from the normal religious institutions. I recruit business minded people who love Jesus. And we recruit from the church, bring people up from within. And that's, that's, again, whatever you do, don't limit it to what you do. I can learn, I learn all day long from people like Ed and apply it to ministry. People in business can learn from guys that do what I do. Great principles are transferable. And I hate it when people try to put themselves in a box.

• 46:35Ed Mylett?

  Yeah, I'm so with you. I had something happen to me when I was younger. Because the other thing about Jesus, maybe my favorite story. You guys have to understand this, like, the night before he knew he was going to be crucified, what did he do? He washed their feet. It's one of the most emotional stories that I'm not really good at even telling. Because I get so emotional about, because I was so much not that person when I was a young leader. And what you said about the church is here to serve, not to be served. The leader is here to serve, not to be served. And that's something that most people that are leaders have backwards. And he knew he was gonna go. And he knew that not all these dudes in there necessarily even had his back.

• 47:20Ed Mylett?

  But he washed their feet. And to me, that's just the symbol of what I should be aspiring to do. I don't do very well, but it's my example.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  You do that well, you're what I call a youth centered leader. Meaning, you don't have to do this podcast, you've created wealth, you're doing this to serve people. And if anyone ever meets with you one on one, they'll be more impressed with you in person than they are from a distance because... You care about people and that's fundamentally what we have to do as leaders is we have to be you centered leaders. The moment that I think that the church exists for me is a moment I should be wiped off the face of the earth, right? I'm not inviting people to come serve my, my vision. That's selfish. You know, thankfully I have a, you know, I'm serving a vision much higher than my own, but I'm inviting people to come and use their gifts to serve other people and make a

• 48:15Speaker 02

  difference. And that's, you know, that's what you do really well. And so don't ever, you know, as your friend, I will not let you sell yourself short.

• 48:23Ed Mylett?

  Appreciate it. I do. I thank you for saying that. I will accept that. Although we both know I have a long way to go on that.

• 48:29Speaker 02

  We, we all have, we all have a long way to go, but it's, you know, you, you care and that matters. It shows.

• 48:35Ed Mylett?

  Do you apologize? One of the things I wish like in our politics, no one specific, everybody, but man, would I follow a leader who says, hey, uh, I got it wrong. I'm sorry. My intentions were right, but uh, I'm going to make a correction here. I was just at a business meeting. I won't name the company, but they had rolled out a compensation plan the year before and uh, the leader got up, he spoke before me and he said, I'm excited about, you know, the man that's about to speak, but he goes, I just need to do something here. And it was a celebration. It was in Hawaii. Was it Hawaii? No, we were in Cabo. So they were celebrating and he goes, I owe you all an apology. We rolled out a plan last year. It didn't work. It's my fault. I called the wrong shot. I got

• 49:18Ed Mylett?

  this one wrong and I just want to tell you that we're going to try to get it right now. And I thought, man, I'd run through a wall for this guy. I would run through a wall for this guy. I don't see enough leaders. I almost feel like as a leader, my opinion is like, you ought to give credit for the successes and take blame for the losses and, and that mean it sincerely. Have you had a situation where you had to get up and say, hey, I'm, I'm blew this one? Can you speak a specific situation and what's your philosophy on that?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  So, you know, way too many times. Um, you know, one of the biggest that I just apologized in front of our whole team for is in 2019, the, the weight.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  And pressure was exceeding my capacity. And so for years, I was kind of ahead of it and always healthy and I just wasn't in a good place. And so I was starting to work on getting better then. And then 2020 hit. And, you know, for every leader, that was just a ridiculously tough time. For pastors in particular, people spiritualized their politics and politicized their faith. And it was, it was ugly everywhere. It was ridiculously ugly here because you were woke and liberal. If you had masks on, you were arrogant and hateful if you didn't and you didn't have faith. And so everything was, was charged. And I just stopped leading with boldness.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  And, and I, I literally, for the first time ever, I had my foot on the brake, not the accelerator. And I didn't even know it because I was so shell shocked and I kind of felt like I was just dodging bullets. And you, you never lead well when you're afraid. It took me probably a year to acknowledge that I had been completely ineffective in my preaching, in my leadership. I wasn't casting vision. So I just apologized and said, I have been leading afraid. I've been leading not to get shot. And, you know, as a, as a Christian man, if you're not getting shot at, you're not doing it right. And, and as a leader, you know, if you're not getting criticized, you're not doing much at all.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  If you're, if you're not hurting, you're not leading. I'll just say that if you're not hurting, you're not leading well. And I was trying to lead not to hurt. So I apologized and, and I mean, I kind of broke down. I actually did. I cried because I was really embarrassed by it. And, um, you know, did people lose respect for me? I mean, maybe somebody, if you did. But for the most part, people are like going, okay, yeah, I've seen myself in that too. And I think the thing I tell people all the time is we feel so much pressure to be right. To be smart, to have it all together. And people are not looking for that. They would rather somebody be genuine, transparent, apologize, be real. And it's kind of tweetable, but I just say, you know, people would rather follow a leader

• 52:13Speaker 02

  who's always real than one who's always right. And that's just so, so true.

• 52:17Ed Mylett?

  Really good.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  We don't have to be perfect. Um, but we do have to be honest. And, and that goes a long way in building trust. And trust is the most valuable commodity and quality we have as leaders. Without it, we have nothing.

• 52:31Ed Mylett?

  No good. I was, uh, that thing you just said about if you're not hurting, you're not leading. You have said that before, and I know you've said it before because I don't know when it was, I don't know if it was a year or two ago. I was going through a really tough time in one of our businesses. Just people had left and it was just bad. And, um, I was in an airport and I was calling some difficult shots and I turn on my phone and it's you and you were live preaching that Sunday. And that was your message. It was one of the messages that day. If you're not hurting, you're really not leading. And it just made me feel, I don't know, comfortable in the position I was in and not in such riddled with so much self doubt. I think a lot of times a leader like this is really awkward.

• 53:14Ed Mylett?

  I'm, I'm, and it creates more doubt. At least it did in me and that gave me a great deal of comfort during that time. I got two last questions for you. By the way, we go nine hours, obviously today.

• 53:27Speaker 01

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• 53:57Ed Mylett?

  Have you had times, and I mean like, like even recently, where the adversary, the enemy kind of creeps in and gives you a little bit of doubt, either in you or your vision, or in something important in your life? The last year or two, a couple of things I thought I wanted to do, and I'm pretty convinced now that I'm on the other side, but it was just the enemy sowing a little seed of doubt in me. And I think I kind of gave into it a little bit, you know, I didn't push through something because I doubted myself. I just doubted my judgment even maybe in something. You ever have that as a leader and what have you done about it if you have?

• 54:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is hard to say, but I think, like in the leaders that I lead with, and some amazing people, men and women, I think I battle with doubt more than any of them. I think, I think I battle with doubt in myself. I battle with having a lack of faith of what's possible. And so on, on one hand, I have this enormous amount of faith in people. I have faith in God, I have the faith in God to save people that are very, very broken. Tremendous amount of faith. But I don't always have the faith that we'll be able to, for example, you version, when we started it years ago, Bible app, they're like, hey, let's create this app and give it away.

• 55:22Speaker 02

  Okay, great, but can we afford to give it away forever? So I was terrified of not being able to keep up. And so recently it kind of came to my attention, I was talking to a guy in IT who said, yeah, at our last big gathering, it felt like we were celebrating the past, but we weren't really pushing hard in the future. And I was like going, oh, I think you're right, that we were celebrating a lot of what had happened. But I wasn't really casting a big vision for the future. And I, I kind of realized, I've been doing it for almost 30 years, and I just don't want to cast a vision where we fail. And that's just, that's just, that's just stupid.

• 56:04Ed Mylett?

  Yeah.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Because. We've been failing for 30 years. We've just been failing forward. You know, we've been, we've been, we, we, we shoot for something and we hit it sometime. We don't other times, but we're always shooting. And I, I was a little bit afraid to shoot because I just didn't know if we could achieve it. And so I, but bottom line is, um, I've played it a little bit too safe because I've been afraid and maybe my inability to help us get there. And I'm working through that now, but it's been a process and it's been humbling to say like, you know, if, if you leave something that's grown for a long time and it, and people consider it big,

• 56:44Speaker 02

  then you, you think, well, okay, we're pretty successful, whatever. The reality is we haven't done anything yet. I mean, like the, the impact we're having on the world is like next to nothing compared to what's possible. And so I don't want to look at what we've done. I want to look at what we could do. And I've been, I've been afraid to do that and I'm growing out of that as we speak. Meaning I'm going public with some, some goals that are going to be really, they're, they're bold. They're bold and we need them. I need them. Without faith, it's impossible to please God. And a lot of times as leaders, we want to leave by, we want to lead by what's we, we know is doable without faith. And, uh, and I'm not going to do that anymore.

• 57:24Ed Mylett?

  Okay. Are you trying to lead me into my last question? By the way, that was my exact issue too. I think if I'm really being honest with myself and a lot of you that are leaders would as well. It's like, uh, you know, I've had a pretty good winning streak here. Not so sure. I want to break it up with a really hard one.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  See, it's, it's easy to risk when you don't have as much to lose.

• 57:38Ed Mylett?

  It's true. When I had nothing, now I'm like, I don't want to fall on my face in front of everybody. Everyone thinks I'm kind of a guru. I've got everybody fooled right now. Like, well, I'm not going to have a big loss. Same exact thing. So you led me into my last question. And now you know why he's one of the people I admire most. And by the way, actually you don't. Because most of the things that I admire about him are the things that you wouldn't even see in a podcast today. But one thing that's happened to me in my life the last few years, maybe 10 years, but particularly the last five, is God has brought some men into my life that truly like Craig, that make me want to make my walk with Jesus much more close and just be a better man. And one of the qualities that you have, and it's a really unique nuance,

• 58:22Ed Mylett?

  and I want to kind of give you the floor on the last question about it. It's great to have, and we didn't even get into vision today, but have vision and have standards and have culture and have difficult conversations and be able to apologize and have belief and love people and all the things we've talked about. And have this plan and you're going to be bold and you're about to come bold again with something. And then to surrender and to say, Jesus, this is yours, Father, please. And for me, as much as I've always loved God, I've always had this issue with total surrender. And this year, it's my word for the year. It's been something I'm really in practice. In fact, every time I pray, every single time I've prayed this year,

• 59:05Ed Mylett?

  I think there's been a conversation we've had together about my surrender and giving Him my burdens and my challenges and trusting His course in my life, trusting Him, fully surrendering to His will with my plan, so to speak. And so I'd like to just talk about that. The pastor, you can be a little bit more present here if you like, but like, what about for you? Like, and what would you say to somebody who's, they've got a burden in their life right now or a struggle or a block or a big vision they're excited about but nervous about? What about surrendering? Am I using the right word, do you think? And what are your thoughts on that?

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Well, I think, I think whether it's the right word or not, I think it's a super important word. And I would say too, and I mean this super sincerely, when we first met,

• 59:55Speaker 02

  I admired who you are as a person and then in kind of what you're doing is really special. But you you had been what I would call like the earlier stages of spiritual passion and development. And to see that it's just like you've really, really grown in in your boldness and just sincerity of your faith. And so that's so great. And, you know, I would say to people like, doesn't matter where you start to start, right? If like, if you're still cussing every third word, that's a good place to start, you know, like we don't need to clean it up before we come to Jesus. Come to him as we are and let him work on us. And I guess what I'm trying to say is he's doing a good work in you. Thank you. It's really obvious. He's doing a good, good work in you.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  And then I would say the the part of surrender, this is what's really interesting as as people of faith, is how much of our life, calling, success, mission are we going to create and do? And how much of it is God's work in us through us? And there's always this beautiful mix, like like even the church, there's a verse that says, Paul did one thing he watered and or planted and Paul is watered and God built the church. So what what happened? Well, one guy planted, one guy watered and God built the church. So God didn't build it without the guy planting without the water. So we're co-labors, we work together. So ultimately, I think that having a big, big vision or any type of vision is God honoring.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Without a vision, the people perish. Without, what are we fighting for if we don't have something to fight for? And our part matters a lot, a lot, meaning if you're faithful, the little God will trust you with more. And ultimately, all we can do is what we can do. And at some point, we have to surrender to the things we cannot control. You don't always have the power to control, but you always have the power to surrender. If you're dealing with a health issue, what can you do? You can eat better, you can take the supplements, you can exercise, you can work on your mind, you can go to the right doctors. Those things you can control, but you don't have the power to control everything. You can do what you can do and then you trust God with what you can't do.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  And so I joke around about having a God box. That there are certain things that if they're within my control, I'm going to do them. And I think God would call me responsible to do them. He can't choose my diet, he can't choose when I go to bed for me. He can't, you know, I'm going to choose my friends, I'm going to choose what I read today. I'm going to choose what I do and don't do, how I think. But there are some things that are above my pay grade. And so if I'm, if I need to write that down, some things go in the God box. And when they go in the God box, I'm going to put them in there and leave them in there. And symbolically, a lot of people have done that. They've created a real God box and said, if I can shape it, I'm going to shape it. But if I cannot, I am going to surrender it to God and say,

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  ultimately, His ways are higher than my ways. He is always good. His plans for us are always for our benefit. He's working in all things to bring about good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. So that means we're in a really good place, Ed. I mean, we're in a really good place that we have today to love people, to serve people, to honor God. If He gives it, tomorrow's not a guarantee. We can't control tomorrow, but we can, we can control today. So I will shape what I can control. I'll surrender what I can't. And no matter what, I'm going to, I'm going to try to grow in my trust in God every single day.

• 1:03:30Ed Mylett?

  Amen.

• 1:03:33Ed Mylett?

  This was extraordinary. This was extraordinary. Holy smokes. Hey, guys listening, would you like me to have Craig on again? I think I know the answer. I'll tell you what I'll do. I will do that. We need to extend this conversation. And here's what you all should do. You should just, and he's not going to tell you to do it, so I will. He's got 15 books. The most recent one is The Benefit of Doubt. Okay? Get the one, go look at his titles, get the one that you think that grabs your heart right away. The other thing you should do, you should be involved with Craig Rochelle. Listen to his podcast. I think the first thing he'd want you to do is go to that YouVersion Bible app. Then you're getting involved with the guy above him and the and the most high the you

• 1:04:15Ed Mylett?

  always talk of the power of one more then there's the ultimate one the only one you need and you're gonna find him in that Bible app and then of course his life church as well but you ought to follow his work he's he's one of the most unique beings on this planet right now and somebody that I told you in the beginning I look up to and you got a little flavor as to why today this was an all-timer brother seriously thank you so much

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  Thank you

• 1:04:37Ed Mylett?

  Thank you

• 1:04:38Speaker 02

  Thank you thank you for thank you for your friendship and um man thank you thank you for just investing in all of us like we there we're there are millions of us out there that um that grow and get better because of um your work and so it's it's just it's an honor to be in your orbit

• 1:04:56Ed Mylett?

  It's you're really being kind today but thank you and by the way when I do see you we should probably you know do the lunch thing but what we should really do is get a workout in together because I want to see what's real and what's not real here because the guns are legit I want to see what we got what we're working with there

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Let's do it

• 1:05:15Ed Mylett?

  All right you guys I don't have to ask you to do this today I know you're gonna share this episode but I just want to say God bless you and max out your life