Jocko Underground: Do You Have Emotional Discipline | Grown Kids Are Not Adults Sometimes

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 150, sitting here with Echo Charles.

• 0:06Jocko Willink?

  Have some good questions from the troopers. So, let's get into it.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  All right. First question. I found the practice of discipline easy to understand. You have control over your actions. You want to get fit. You go to the gym. You want to eat clean. You only buy healthy food. The rub for me is on the emotional front. It's not as easy as the practice of discipline. I can want to not let things affect me and just let them go, but the emotions don't respond to my demands. I know getting butthurt about my girlfriend's actions doesn't serve anything, but they still come. I know that allowing resentment for my boss's toxicity won't help me, but there it is. I'm pretty good at containing my reactions, at least to the extent I don't lash out ever.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  But what's the point of going through life all lit up with triggers like a Christmas tree just to tell yourself at least you're not outwardly reacting? Specifically, what is actual, what's the actual process of not allowing yourself to be affected?

• 1:10Jocko Willink?

  You know, this is good. I mean, first of all, it's good that he's recognizing that

• 1:18Jocko Willink?

  getting triggered is an emotional weakness. And, and if you succumb to that, it's not going to help you. This is, this is actually, you told that story. I think you read a book called Mind Games. And it told you in that book that if you lose your temper, then what did it say? Or if you, what is it?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. If you have anger issues, that means it comes from low self-esteem.

• 1:44Jocko Willink?

  There you go. And so you decided you weren't going to get mad anymore. So, that's kind of what I think here, you know, when I, when I look at this. In some ways, a lack of self-control over your emotions shouldn't be that hard to contend with because it's literally inside your own head. You're not squatting, not doing 20 rep squats. You're not doing hill sprints. You're not swinging a kettlebell. So it's, it's, it's just this little tiny thing inside your head.

• 2:20Jocko Willink?

  All you have to do is just control your emotions. So that seems like it should be pretty easy. But if you don't have the discipline to do that, then does it really matter if you can squat a lot? If you're a freaking idiot? I'm not calling you an idiot, bro. What I'm saying.

• 2:40Jocko Willink?

  You have to learn this. This is detachment. This is the detachment protocol. Right? So you start to get triggered. For your, the word that you use, you start to feel your emotions peak. You know, take a step back, literally take a step back from the situation, literally look around, open up your field of view. Literally take a big breath. Your mom or your dad told you and you start to get mad, count to 10. If you gotta count to 10, count 10. Nod your head and listen and don't say a word. That's the, that's the protocol. I've done that a thou- a million times.

• 3:14Jocko Willink?

  Then what I would think about here is I would, when you're, when you're now taking a breath and thinking, I would think about a strategic thought. What is going to help you in the long term? How are you going to win in the long term? How are you going to have a good relationship with your girlfriend? Is it gonna be if you like? Ignore the fact that she's did something that annoys you and now you're kind of grumpy dirt. Is that gonna help? Is that gonna be a good relationship? No. Is it gonna help you get promoted at boss, at work if your boss would, your boss's toxicity? And you're resenting it and you're holding it in, but you still like, dude, that's not good for you.

• 3:55Jocko Willink?

  It's not good for you. It's not good for your relationship with your girlfriend. It's not good for getting promoted or getting, building your relationship with your boss. Here's a question. Do you want to win or not? Do you want to win or not? Do you want to let other people control you? Do you want to let other people control you? Cause if they can make you angry, they're controlling you.

• 4:13Jocko Willink?

  Do you want to be weak? Cause this is a weakness. It's a weakness. That's what I feel like that transition that you made in your life, was you realized? I've always said, you know, uh, losing your temper is a weakness. But for you, it was like, losing your temper shows insecurity and that was enough to make you, oh yeah, I'm not, I'm not playing that game. Not gonna let that happen. So don't, don't allow yourself that weakness.

• 4:42Jocko Willink?

  Do you want to be weak or do you want to be a disciplined strategic thinker? Do you want to be a, or do you want to be a short-term lizard brain?

• 4:50Jocko Willink?

  Right? The lizard brain, the lizard brain is just reacting to what like survival instincts. That's all it's doing. Has no frontal cortex.

• 4:59Jocko Willink?

  That's what it's doing. And that's what you're doing. Not you, Echo Charles, but you question asker.

• 5:08Jocko Willink?

  Your lizard brain is just going off, man. So if you think about, if you think about, you, you mentioned that, you know, in the physical world, this is pretty easy for you. Right? You want to be in shape. You don't want to be weak. You don't want to be sick. You don't want to, you want to have the strength and the discipline and control of yourself. That's why you're working out. That's why we're being strong.

• 5:34Jocko Willink?

  This is the same thing. Do you want to be emotionally weak? Do you want to be mentally weak? No, you don't want to be. It's the same thing.

• 5:44Jocko Willink?

  You get control. You become mentally strong. You don't allow these little things to bother you. And, and this is a key component.

• 5:54Jocko Willink?

  What are you letting bother you? Like what matters?

• 5:59Jocko Willink?

  You should be, and listen, people will say this is, people will take this and be like, oh, you, what are you trying to say? We should have no emotions? No, I'm not saying you just have no emotions. But there should be very few things that drive you to become emotional.

• 6:14Jocko Willink?

  Like if you're getting road rage, you got issues. If you're getting mad because the girl in front of you in the grocery store is taking too long, you got issues. If you're getting mad because you're, uh, what's he got a girlfriend or a wife? Girlfriend. Are you getting mad because your girlfriend?

• 6:31Jocko Willink?

  Uh, what'd she do wrong? You know, she showed up late. Hey, we're supposed to leave at four. It's 4:18. Like, is that going to make you mad? And if it makes you mad, and now you make an emotional decision about it, was it good?

• 6:49Jocko Willink?

  You know, now, if you made a logical decision, you know what? I don't know if we, I don't know if this girl, she's continually late. She doesn't care about the things that I care about. Yeah, that's probably not a best relationship to maintain. Which, if you make that logical decision, fine. Oh, yeah, I'm at my work, my boss, I don't like his leadership style. And you leave, storm out one day and quit, now you don't have a job? Is that good? No, it's not good. But if you say, you know what? Maybe I should start getting my resume together and stuff. But if you make a logical decision, that's fine.

• 7:15Jocko Willink?

  But if you allow these little annoyances to dictate your mood and your actions, that's just terrible. And it sounds like you've got your actions controlled. But even if they're controlling your mood, even if you're walking around with pent up anger, instead of being like, yeah, whatever. I cannot tell you the number of things in a day that I go,

• 7:42Jocko Willink?

  what is that noise?

• 7:45Jocko Willink?

  Does that, does that, does that noise have a name? You know what it is. But you know, some noises have a name, like a sigh, like, like that has a name. Or a phew, that's, that's a name, right?

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 7:55Jocko Willink?

  But what, what's the name of the noise?

• 7:59Jocko Willink?

  But you know it, right? It's a thing. I, in my head, do that all day long.

• 8:09Jocko Willink?

  Not much I can do about it, not gonna worry about it. Kind of out of my control, not gonna really impact the way I'm, my life is.

• 8:18Jocko Willink?

  You, you know, oh, you're yelling and screaming at me? Cause you're late for work and I'm the car in front of you?

• 8:26Jocko Willink?

  You know what I mean?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Yes, I do, actually. It's good.

• 8:31Jocko Willink?

  It's just like, what are you gonna do? So I would, for this dude in particular, I would implement more into your life. And we'll try and figure out if that thing has a name, that noise.

• 8:45Jocko Willink?

  I say that a lot. I don't say it out loud, but man, there's so, hey, especially in this day and age. Cause you can go online. Bro, people are like losing their minds online. And things that literally don't matter at all. Things that are happening thousands of miles away from them. And may or may not be true.

• 9:10Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, implement more eh in your life and I think you're gonna get a better spot.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a real, uh, it's like a real dismissive expression.

• 9:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, I guess it is.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, uh, I'll get in trouble in a playful way from my lovely wife by saying, uh, it is what it is. But I say it kind of with that tone right there, you know, you know how like if someone's coming to you with something and then they're kind of like fired up about it. Not terribly necessarily, but you know, like when someone comes to you and they're on the emotional side about something. There is a small unwritten expectation that you're gonna kind of reflect at the very least, right?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  So I'm not necessarily talking about the reflect and diminish. If you just dim it, this is what it turns out to be, just diminish, right? So it's like, uh, or known as dismissing. So I, so I say, it is what it is. It's like, but I think I do do that thing. It is what it is.

• 10:10Jocko Willink?

  Notice I said multiple times, not out loud.

• 10:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know what I mean? I said that multiple times for a reason, by the way. Because if you, if your wife says, uh, you know, if your wife shows up late. And there you go. That's a little taste of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. And if you want to listen to the whole thing, go to jacood underground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way.

• 10:54Jocko Willink?

  But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.