Pod Insights Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! | Greek Mythology & the Ancient Mediterranean RE-AIR: Slow But Steady Wins the Race, Ancient Aesop & His Fables About this episode This episode originally aired in January 2023. Not at all a children's author... We're talking ancient Aesop and his oh so famous fables. Submit your question for the next Q&A via email http://mythsbaby.com/questions or a voice note https://www.speakpipe.com/LTAMB. Get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing.
Sources: Aesop, the Complete Fables, translated by Olivia and Robert Temple; Aesop's Fables, translated by George Fyler Townsend https://www.gutenberg.org/files/21/21-h/21-h.htm.
Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.
Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand).
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Liv Albert? Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com grouptrip.
0:42 Speaker 01 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.gle/workspacewithGemini.
1:15 Speaker 02 I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed and the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.
1:56 Liv Albert? A hare one day ridiculed the short feet and slow pace of the tortoise, who replied, laughing, "Though you be swift as the wind, I will beat you in a race." The hare, believing her assertion to be simply impossible, assented to the proposal, and they agreed that the fox should choose the course and fix the goal. On the day appointed for the race, the two started together. The tortoise never for a moment stopped, but went on with a slow but steady pace, straight to the end of the course. The hare, lying down by the wayside, fell fast asleep. At last waking up and moving as fast as he could, he saw the tortoise had reached the goal and was comfortably dozing after her fatigue. Slow but steady wins the race.
3:05 Liv Albert? Oh, hi, hello nerds. This is Let's Talk About Myths, baby. And I'm your host, Liv, here with, well, like, childhood, I guess. I certainly associate Aesop's fables with my childhood, and I've been keen to talk about them on the podcast for ages now. And so finally, here we are. Honestly, for the longest time, I never even knew, or maybe just like never made the connection or paid attention, that some of my favorite stories from childhood were actually ancient Greek stories. I had no idea that one of the first authors I ever read by myself was an ancient Greek from the Archaic Period, and that's not even half of what makes him so cool. And yet, that's exactly how my own reading started. Are we surprised by how things went for me? Hardly.
3:50 Liv Albert? Though he's famous now for children's fables, Aesop was very likely from the Archaic Period of ancient Greece, and not writing for children at all. Probably around the 6th century is when he was from, making his legacy, honestly, like, more similar to the concept of like Homer than one might imagine. And really, like, I mean, how incredibly cool is that? I can't quite believe that it took me this long to talk about him. One of the editions of Aesop's fables that I have is this Penguin Classics edition, translated by Olivia and Robert Temple. It isn't the one that I'm quoting from, we'll get to that, but it has information that we need. And one of the first things it provides is a so-called biography of Aesop.
4:32 Liv Albert? It's simple, to the point, and thus, I'm going to read it to you, with a couple of edits on my part. Quote, "Aesop probably lived in the middle part of the 6th century BCE. A statement in Herodotus gives ground for thinking that he was a slave, belonging to a citizen of Samos. There are many references to Aesop found in the Athenian writers, Aristophanes, Xenophon, Plato, Aristotle, and more. It is not known whether he wrote down his fables himself, nor indeed how many of them are correctly attributed to him."
5:18 Liv Albert? This is episode 209, "Slow But Steady Wins The Race: Ancient Aesop and His Fables."
5:40 Liv Albert? "A tortoise, lazily basking in the sun, complained to the sea-birds of her hard fate that no one would teach her to fly. An eagle hovering near heard her lamentation and demanded what reward she would give him if he would take her aloft and float her in the air. 'I will give you,' she said, 'all the riches of the Red Sea.' 'I will teach you to fly, then,' said the eagle, and, taking her up in his talons, he carried her almost to the clouds. Suddenly he let her go, and she fell on a lofty mountain, dashing her shell to pieces.' The tortoise exclaimed, in the moment of death, 'I have deserved my present fate, for what had I to do with wings and clouds, who can with difficulty move about on the earth?
6:25 Liv Albert? If men had all they wished, they would often be ruined."
6:30 Liv Albert? Aesop was, very likely, an enslaved Thracian, or someone from generally that area, brought to the Greek world and sold. He was also probably one of the most well-respected enslaved people, both during and after his lifetime. That last bit is an assumption by me, but with what we're getting to later, I think it's pretty safe to say. We're gonna talk more about him and his fables, so much more, but I wanted that upfront because it says a lot about him as a person, what he went through and how he managed it. The fables themselves aren't like the stories as I usually tell them. They're short and to the point, and they're not about narrative so much as general theme and details. They're best read straight, so throughout this episode, I'm just gonna be reading you a few of them, verbatim.
7:15 Liv Albert? These full translations that I'm gonna be reading here and those that I've already recited are a public domain translation by George Philer Townsend. It's out of copyright, hence why I can read it in full. But Aesop himself, or what we do and do not know about him, is interesting enough to go into lots of detail, so I am referring to the Penguin Classics edition by Olivia and Robert Temple for that background information. Even the introduction to this edition of Aesop concedes that he may even be more famous than Homer himself, though his fame is very specific and not as tied to the actual works as one might expect. Only a handful of his fables are famous, mostly as children's stories, lessons kind of, fables, obviously. There's this idea that they're about morality,
7:59 Liv Albert? that they convey a lesson to the reader, which they're meant to like take to heart. Meanwhile, there are actually hundreds of these fables that exist, and no full translation existed in English until this Penguin one. In this introduction, Aesop is described as being like, quote, "a movie star everyone thinks they know, but in fact, they only know him from certain roles he's played."
8:23 Liv Albert? Now Aesop is seen as a children's storyteller. In the Victorian period, he was seen as a kind of source for "morals", such as "haste makes waste and pride comes before the fall." Though this introduction goes on to note that these so-called morals don't actually exist in any of Aesop's fables, and many of the children's stories that we think of don't quite convey the Aesop of ancient Greek fables. Or rather, they're very selective in what they use to convey the stories to children. Whereas many of the stories are much more ancient Greek. That is, like, far more violent and weird and troubling. Aesop as a person, and unlike so many ancient sources, it does seem that he actually probably was like a really, very real person?
9:05 Liv Albert? So he was likely this Thracian who was enslaved after he was captured at some point. And he was sold to someone on this island of Samos, where he lived, at least for a time. He's from the late Archaic period, around the 6th century BCE. He was enslaved, but he seems to have made quite a name for himself, regardless, gaining this reputation of being a great storyteller, super witty and smart, and just generally a cool guy. Since he developed this reputation, many later fables ended up getting attributed to him after the fact, since they just kind of like fit his whole deal and he was famous. A lot of these others that probably weren't written by him may have actually come from ancient Libya, which just is not modern Libya, but a huge swath of northern Africa.
9:49 Liv Albert? Aesop may well have been, at least by some degrees of separation too, contemporary with Sappho herself. He became enslaved alongside this woman named Dorica, who became better known as Rhodopis, and she was a courtesan, a hetera, a sex worker, but one of like higher repute than others. It seems like these two people were probably seized from the same war in Thrace. And then she, well, she became super famous for being an awesome, and I imagine, very talented sex worker, and she drew the attention of this man named Caracus of Midellini on Lesbos? He was Sappho's brother. And Caracus met Rhodopis while he was trading wine in Egypt, and he felt so infatuated
10:28 Liv Albert? with her that he bought Rhodopis's freedom for an exorbitant price, which Sappho wrote about because it was so extravagant. And thus, we have these little details of evidence that like link these two. It's so cool! And yeah, my brain has exploded learning this. I fucking love the ancient world. It's like little mysteries that can be put together and solved through all of these little bits and fragments of historical and tidbits, like dating things and having their stories collide through facts like these. And anyway, um, it's incredible. Also, Rodopis seems fascinating, and now I wanna know so much more about her. But today's about Aesop, and what these facts do is not only suggest that Aesop was indeed a real man,
11:12 Liv Albert? but they also give us this time period for him. 6th century BCE, that is very early. Just like our girl Sappho and her brother, who seems to have been a pretty cool guy, honestly, for freeing that woman at such a cost. Like, he didn't buy her, he freed her. Even if Sappho thought him wasteful. Sappho.
11:34 Liv Albert? "A number of flies were attracted to a jar of honey which had been overturned in a housekeeper's room, and placing their feet in it, ate greedily. Their feet, however, became so smeared with the honey that they could not use their wings nor release themselves, and were suffocated. Just as they were expiring, they exclaimed, 'Oh, foolish creatures that we are! For the sake of a little pleasure, we have destroyed ourselves!' Pleasure bought with pain hurts.
12:20 Liv Albert? "Wolf, meeting with a lamb astray from the fold, resolved not to lay violent hands on him, but to find some plea to justify to the lamb the wolf's right to eat him. He thus addressed him: 'Sirrah, last year you grossly insulted me.' Indeed, bleated the lamb in a mournful tone of voice, I was not then born. Then said the wolf, 'You feed in my pasture.' 'No, good sir,' replied the lamb, 'I have not yet tasted grass.' Again, said the wolf, 'You drink of my well.' 'No,' exclaimed the lamb, 'I have never yet drank water, for as yet my mother's milk is both food and drink to me.' Upon which, the wolf seized him and ate him up, saying, 'Well, I won't remain supperless, even though you refute every one of my imputations.'
13:04 Liv Albert? The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny.
13:10 Liv Albert? As I mentioned earlier, Aesop was famous enough in the ancient world that he's mentioned in authors like Aristophanes and Plato, among others. He's referenced in "The Birds and the Wasps of Aristophanes," references to his fables as lighthearted pieces, like jokes almost. It suggests that people of Athens, those who attended symposia, these fancy drinking parties of the wealthier class, would study Aesop and memorize parts to retell later. It made them seem smart and refined. And Aristotle loved him, too, studying and collecting Aesop's fables a couple of centuries after he had died and teaching them at his school.
13:51 Liv Albert? Ultimately, the point is, Aesop was seriously famous for his skill with wit and storytelling, and he was enslaved, which is just like really an interesting piece of history. The idea that the stories of that man are still so famous, children's books of them are still published today, all the time, still read commonly, and he was an enslaved person from 2,500-plus years ago. Fucking badass. As for the stories themselves, like I said, we're reading just a few of them in their entirety because they're meant to convey this like purpose, a point, a moral that isn't about morality always, but it's still the most, it's just the best word to use, like the moral of the story.
14:32 Liv Albert? Anyway, we're gonna get into the not about morality thing in a bit because, at the same time, these fables are a look at the world of that time, in a way, and a look into this man's mind and whoever wrote whichever ones were later attributed to him. They're a very different look into the ancient world because while some do feature the gods as characters like we're used to, they're not myths, as I usually talk about myths. They have like this different purpose entirely. But just like with myths and storytelling like Homer, these were probably originally...
15:08 Liv Albert? These were probably originally told through oral storytelling before, likely after Aesop's death, but actually, who knows, before they were written into forms that were then copied to the point that we have them now. This is additionally interesting because we get to imagine a setting where this man, who was not a bard, not a poet necessarily, not a musician as far as I understand, and who was enslaved and owned by somebody, had the opportunity to tell his stories widely enough that he became famous and those stories became so renowned as to warrant this extensive collection and preservation. And since Sappho came up earlier, and brilliantly organically, in details I really can't get
15:51 Liv Albert? over, I will also point out that it's quite notable that Aesop's work, whatever of the fables were truly written or told by him originally, survive in these complete forms, whereas Sappho's are fragmentary at best. Sappho's bits and pieces of poems survive through random acts of human existence, for the most part. Her works survive because papyrus that featured it, these works were often reused for other things, and then they managed to retain some of her words in these fragments, or various other means like that. Unintentionally preserved versus intentionally preserved. Intentionally copied in order to keep it from falling to pieces, or being lost.
16:33 Liv Albert? Meanwhile, Aesop was an enslaved person, and I don't want to say that to lessen Aesop's importance or to suggest that he was anything less, because he was enslaved, but that a very famous free woman's poetry didn't survive, whereas his did. It's just, well, anyway, it's the patriarchy at work, isn't it? The Christian patriarchy, probably, because we rely a lot on Christian monks for what survives to us today. It's not surprising that he didn't grant a woman the same honors, even though Sappho too was super famous in the ancient world, revered by Plato and others, just like Aesop.
17:07 Liv Albert? A lion roaming by the seashore saw a dolphin lift up its head out of the waves and suggested that they contract an alliance, saying that of all the animals they ought to be the best friends, since the one was the king of the beasts on the earth and the other, the sovereign ruler of all the inhabitants of the ocean. The dolphin gladly consented to this request. Not long afterwards, the lion had a combat with a wild bull and called on the dolphin to help him. The dolphin, though quite willing to give his assistance, was unable to do so, as he could not by any means reach the land. The lion abused him as a traitor. The dolphin replied, "Nay, my friend, blame not me, but nature, which, while giving me
17:49 Liv Albert? the sovereignty of the sea, has quite denied me the power of living upon the land." Aristotle's appreciation for Aesop is one of the main reasons, or like, at least a major contributing factor, to the survival of it, of all of his work. So while we might wish that he'd taken such an interest in, say, Sappho, at least he cared about Aesop. He had such a collection of Aesop's fables in his university library that later students and writers were then able to access the works for themselves, become fans, and kind of like, keep it all going. Like this nice guy named Demetrius. In the introduction to this edition that I've been reading, Temple says that Demetrius
18:34 Liv Albert? likely accessed Aesop's work via the Lyceum, Aristotle's library, in Athens, and through that access, he compiled a collection of the fables and other works called "Sayings of Seven Wise Men." And then it means we have it today. Aristotle, meanwhile, is also a source for variations on some of the fables and kind of like, this historical background for how they came to be. He talks about a time when Aesop was living on Samos, and he defended a leader there who was being tried for his life. He did this defense of this person by telling a specific fable about a fox crossing a river.
19:16 Liv Albert? A fox swimming across a rapid river was carried by the force of the current into a very deep ravine, where he lay for a long time, very much bruised, sick, and unable to move. A swarm of hungry, blood-sucking flies settled upon him. A hedgehog, passing by, saw his anguish and inquired if he should drive away the flies that were tormenting him. "By no means," replied the fox, "pray do not molest them." "How is this?" said the hedgehog, "Do you not want to be rid of them?" "No," returned the fox, "for these flies which you see are full of blood and sting me but little, and if you rid me of these flies, which are already satiated, others,
19:56 Liv Albert? more hungry, will come in their place, and will drink up all the blood I have left." Apparently Aesop used this story to say that this leader he was defending was so wealthy already, that if he was found guilty and put to death, other people would just come in and rob the treasury. But like, he didn't need to, cuz he had so much money. Temple goes on to say that this was a very likely a true story, because Aristotle did such extensive research into the history of Samos, that he would know. And it might even indicate that Aesop became a lawyer who actually represented this leader, and maybe other people like him, in court. Honestly, I don't know how this works alongside the fact that he was enslaved, so I won't
20:41 Liv Albert? try to explain that, but regardless of whatever intricacies existed there, it is fascinating, and an extra bit about Aesop, and just like, really emphasizes his character in the ancient world, and like, everything he did? One winter, a farmer found a snake, stiff and frozen with cold. He had compassion on it, and taking it up, placed it in his bosom. The snake was quickly received by the warmth, and resuming its natural instincts, bit its benefactor, inflicting on him a mortal wound. "Oh, "cried the farmer, "with his last breath, "I am rightly served for pitying a scoundrel." The greatest kindness will not bind the ungrateful.
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22:20 Liv Albert? Like, they have really great things that you can wear with so many other things. Just the options are endless. And as the weather gets colder, like all the sweaters in my closet, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe, from warm, responsibly sourced down jackets and cozy cashmere scarves and gloves, to beautiful 14 karat gold jewelry that adds the perfect finishing touch. And of course, everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And I mean, if we haven't learned anything in the last 10 years, isn't it just getting rid of the middlemen, you know, making things more affordable?
23:02 Liv Albert? So find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was me. Let's talk about myths, baby. It's the best way to support the show.
23:28 Speaker 02 I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone and I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh. Anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade-in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.
23:58 Speaker 01 Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithGemini.
24:48 Liv Albert? A dog crossing a bridge over a stream with a piece of flesh in his mouth saw his own shadow in the water and took it for that of another dog with a piece of meat double his own size. He immediately let go of his own and fiercely attacked the other dog to get his larger piece from him. He thus lost both, that which he grasped at in the water, because it was a shadow, and his own, because the stream swept it away.
25:14 Liv Albert? For all I said at the beginning that these were very different from the usual myths I talk about, that isn't entirely the case, at least with all of them. While it's not the majority, many of the fables of Aesop do feature the gods as characters. Temple explains that a leading scholar on Aesop suggests that these fables with divine characters are those that are most likely actually the work of Aesop a person versus so many that would have been attributed to him well after the fact. These stories often convey how things came to be. They explain something about the world, and because of that, they're also the most linked to myths themselves, which so often do the same thing. They do this in different ways than the traditional myths,
25:55 Liv Albert? but ultimately, the purpose is often similar. There are so many examples listed in this introduction, but I'm going to share just a couple. This one is about Zeus and a bee. "A bee from Mount Hemetis, the queen of the hive, ascended to Olympus to present Zeus with some honey fresh from her combs. Zeus, delighted with the offering of honey, promised to give whatever she should ask. She therefore besought him, saying, 'Give me, I pray thee, a sting, that if any mortal shall approach to take my honey, I may kill him.' Zeus was much displeased, for he loved the race of men, but could not refuse the request because of his promise. He thus answered the bee: 'You shall have your request, but
26:37 Liv Albert? it will be at the peril of your own life; for if you use your sting, it shall remain in the wound you make, and then you will die from the loss of it.' Evil wishes, like chickens, come home to roost." We will, we will get to the addition of those little end sentences at the end. So simple and to the point, this, this fable explains how bees can sting and why they die if they do. It's similar to the myths that explain like natural phenomena, but in such like simple and purposeful ways that it's still kind of like it's its own thing entirely. Doesn't sound like the traditional myths. And it seems a lot of these cases of divine characters, who the characters actually are, can change a lot depending
27:19 Liv Albert? on which version of a fable exists. And many existed alongside each other, even in the ancient world. Like one about Zeus, Prometheus, Athena, and Momo's, or sometimes it's Poseidon instead of Prometheus. In addition to the characters themselves changing over time and depending upon the version, sometimes the stories themselves are changed to be less mythological than they might have originally been. The example described in this introduction is one where the earth is said to have swallowed the sea, but according to writing by Aristotle, the original version actually had Charybdis swallowing it up. It seems like changes like these kind of mirrored what was happening in the world itself. The deities themselves were becoming a little less important, kind of being conflated together for the sake
28:04 Liv Albert? of, I don't even know, just having fewer. They were relied on a little less and things like science were becoming more prominent. Ideas that negated the need for certain characters like the sentient and wildly wonderful whirlpool of the Odyssey, Charybdis. It makes sense that it's stories like these that get affected by these changes in society and their belief structures, because they're not stories in the same way things like The Odyssey are. They have a much more explicit purpose and so they reflect the world of the ancient Greeks more explicitly. They need to change along with society in a way that things like Homer would never need to, because they remain these like distinct and entertaining stories, these pieces of
28:46 Liv Albert? art, regardless of how the world itself changes.
28:52 Liv Albert? A very poor man, a carpenter by trade, had a wooden image of Hermes before which he made offerings day by day and begged the idol to make him rich. But in spite of his entreaties, he became poorer and poorer. At last, being very angry, he took his image down from its pedestal and dashed it against the wall. When its head was knocked off, out came a stream of gold, which the carpenter quickly picked up and said, "Well, I think you are altogether contradictory and unreasonable, for when I paid you honor, I reaped no benefits, but now that I maltreat you, I am loaded with an abundance of riches."
29:30 Liv Albert? One thing that stands out most in these fables are the morals attached at the end. That last one is a great example. Quote, "In serving the wicked, expect no reward and be thankful if you escape injury for your pains." These things that are kind of tacked on at the end. But an important thing to know about these are that they didn't necessarily appear in the original fables themselves. As Temple says in this edition, quote, "It will readily appear to most readers that the morals are often silly and inferior in wit and interest to the fables themselves." And yeah, he's definitely right there. They don't fit. They feel tacked on, like they're shoving the point down your throat. Like the fable didn't make it well enough, they've got to really just
30:13 Liv Albert? like hand-hold you. And that's because they were often added later by collectors of the poems. They're often separated in the text themselves, too, like very explicitly in this Penguin Edition, because it's a real conscious effort that they're making, in addition to laying it all out in the introduction. In the versions that I've been reading today, it's obviously a much older edition, and so while they appear kind of separate, it's a little bit less explicit that these are out of place, tacked on after the fact. Sometimes they're relevant and smart morals, like one mentioned in this intro that isn't in the edition I'm reading from, but it's about fishermen who've been out fishing for ages and haven't caught anything. They're feeling very bad for themselves, and just at that moment, a fish who's being chased through the water jumps out and
30:56 Liv Albert? just like lands in their boat. The moral attached is, quote, "Thus it is that what skill denies us, chance often gives us freely." Or like another good example is this one. "A carter was driving a wagon along a country lane when the wheels sank down into a rut. The rustic driver, stupefied and aghast, stood looking at the wagon and did nothing but utter loud cries to Hercules to come and help him. Hercules, it is said, appeared and thus addressed him. Put your shoulders to the wheels, my man, goad on your bullocks, and never more pray to me for help until you have done your best to help yourself, or depend upon it you will henceforth pray in vain." Self-help is
31:41 Liv Albert? the best help. That one is also pretty straightforward. Like you can't always rely on others, particularly when it's something that you could at least try to do yourself. Plus, that one's extra fun because it's got Heracles serving the lesson up in like a very Heraklion way. But for all the morals can be silly at times, or forced, or just feel really out of place, it's important to note that often these are the reasons that we still have so many of the fables. As Temple says, "We probably owe the preservation of the fables to their utilitarian use by orators and rhetoricians, so we must not begrudge them their morals." And even better, he adds, "That as long as we realize the history and the context of
32:21 Liv Albert? these morals, they develop a kind of kitsch fascination in themselves, like taking an interest in ornamental teapots." Did I need to read that quote necessarily? No, but it compared them to ornamental teapots, and that just felt too fun to pass up. As evidence, here's another fable, one with a very silly moral attached. "A man and a lion traveled together through the forest. They soon began to boast of their respective superiority to each other in strength and prowess. As they were disputing, they passed a statue carved in stone, which represented a lion strangled by a man. The traveler pointed to it and said, 'See there, how strong we are and how we prevail over even the king of beasts.'
33:05 Liv Albert? The lion replied, 'This statue is made by one of you men. If we lions knew how to erect statues, you would see the man placed under the paw of the lion.'" One story is good till another is told.
33:36 Liv Albert? "An astronomer used to go out at night to observe the stars. One evening, as he wandered through the suburbs with his whole attention fixed on the sky, he fell accidentally into a deep well. While he lamented and bewailed his sores and bruises and cried loudly for help, a neighbor ran to the well and, learning what had happened, said, 'Hark, you old fellow! Why, in striving to pry into what is heaven, do you not manage to see what is on earth?'"
34:06 Liv Albert? If you listeners are anything like me, and I imagine you are because gods, is this what Aesop is famous for? But you would have come to Aesop through children's books. Personally, I had no idea that he was in Ancient Greek, let alone someone who didn't write stories for children, until I was like an adult and looking into these things. Of course, that's in large part because I just never looked into him. But the stories come to us in this guise of children's stories, and so we just kind of accept that. But ultimately, as anyone familiar with literature of Ancient Greece might expect, these were not originally meant for children, nor does Aesop broadly resemble anything meant for such a young audience. Again, this comes from this Penguin Edition's introduction, but it makes the point well.
34:48 Liv Albert? Quote, "Most of those children's editions of Aesop are carefully selected and so heavily rewritten that they have only a tenuous connection with Aesop." Because of this and the general fame of the children's editions, there's an entirely unrealistic idea of who and what Aesop was in the ancient world. At least when it comes to the English-speaking world, though I imagine this is like fairly widespread beyond too. Apparently, many of the weirder mythologically-based fables weren't even translated into English until recently, given this idea that all of Aesop's stories were just fun little anecdotes about animals chatting with each other and learning lessons. Now, I probably haven't given good examples to the contrary because I am reading from such an old translation,
35:31 Liv Albert? even if I'm basing the research on a recent one, but also because I want to read them entirely and I am stuck with these older ones. And also, I mean, I found them as a kid, so I wanted to read some of the ones with the animals talking to people. Fortunately, this intro does a lot to dispel these ideas of what Aesop was all about. That he wasn't some kind of purveyor of Victorian morality, but that instead the fables are, quote, "coarse, brutal, lacking in all mercy or compassion, and lacking also in any political system other than absolute monarchy. With one exception, the kings are tyrants, and the women who appear include a young wife who scratches and claws at her evidently brutal husband's face,
36:14 Liv Albert? and one who is really an animal disguised as a human who pounces on a mouse to eat it."
36:21 Liv Albert? And those are all the women, it seems. Yeah, the ladies don't get a lot of credit in here. Surprise, surprise. So for all I've read to you a lot of silly animal stories today, there are literally hundreds of others more dark and twisted and weird and full of dangerous wicked men and gods. They're full of crimes and violence and mockery. They're unsympathetic and dark and generally just weird. Because, well, at their core, they are stories from the ancient Greek world, featuring the characters of ancient Greek gods. And if we've learned anything from almost six years of this podcast, that means the stories are going to be fucked up, but deeply enjoyable, all the same.
36:59 Liv Albert? A fox one day fell into a deep well and could find no means of escape. A goat, overcome with thirst, came to the same well and, seeing the fox, inquired if the water was good. Concealing his sad plight under a merry guise, the fox indulged in a lavish praise of the water, saying it was excellent beyond measure and encouraging him to descend. The goat, mindful only of his thirst, thoughtlessly jumped down, but just as he drank, the fox informed him of the difficulty they were both in and suggested a scheme for their common escape. "If, said he, you will place your four feet upon the wall and bend your head, I will run up your back and escape, and will help you out afterwards."
37:43 Liv Albert? The goat readily assented and the fox leaped on his back. Steading himself with the goat's horns, he safely reached the mouth of the well and made off as fast as he could. When the goat upbraided him for breaking his promise, he turned around and cried out, "You foolish old fellow, if you had as many brains as your head as you have hairs in your beard, you would never have gone down before you had inspected the way up, nor have exposed yourself to dangers from which you had no means of escape." Look before you leap.
38:28 Liv Albert? Nerds, nerds, nerds. Thank you for listening. I know this one was a little bit different and full of so much reading, but frankly, I've been meaning to learn more about Aesop for ages, and I'm very glad I did. And reading them was really fun and kind of just made it all necessary. So I hope you enjoyed me sharing it all with you. I don't know, nerdy stuff, it's fun, right? Ancient Greek sources are just fascinating in themselves, but being able to look at this man's history, not only his personal history and whatever we know about it, but the way his works were revered and collected and like, who appreciated them? That Aristotle did so much, not only to preserve them, but to teach us more about Aesop as a person. It's all just supremely interesting, because my god, see, Ancient Greeks, they were interesting. I mean, who expected an appearance by Sappho, her brother and his
39:11 Liv Albert? favorite sex worker? Not me. But man, so happy to have had them here with us. That was seriously fun. Okay, as always, let's tie this episode with a five-star review. Thank you all for leaving these. They really bring me so much joy and they help the podcast immensely. You are all the best. This one comes from a user called Ellen Anne in the States. "Mind-blowing, can't get enough. I started to listen to this podcast with no expectation, but left feeling empowered, interested, and ready to tell everyone I know interesting Greek mythology facts. Liv is a wonderful storyteller and her ability to relate it into the real-world context is mind-blowing. I've gained entertainment and educational context from this podcast. Most importantly, I've recognized some patriarchal themes that look a little too familiar for comfort." Speaking as a US woman. "Overall, if you are ready to learn, laugh, and love,
39:55 Liv Albert? this is the podcast for you. Keep being the awesome feminist goddess you are." Thank you. I feel so weird reading them aloud, but also it means the world to me and I know people love having their stuff read aloud, and so I do it. But I'm trying not to pat myself on the back, but also, um, thank you, these are really nice. Let's talk about Myths Baby, written and produced by me, Liv Albert. Michaela Smith is the Hermes to my Olympian Scots. Michaela does so many things, especially as I prepare. I'm going to Greece next month, so I'm prepping all these episodes in advance, and my god, could not do it without Michaela, what a queen. Stephanie Foley works to transcribe the podcast for YouTube captions and accessibility. The podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeart Media. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron, where you'll get bonus
40:37 Liv Albert? episodes and more. Visit patreon.com/mythbaby or click the link in this episode's description. Thank you all, you are super cool, and so is Aesop, am I right? Gods, I finally got to him. I am Liv and I love this shit.
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