Why You Keep Reacting Badly (Even When You Know Better) | Shankari

Feel an inner battle raging within yourself? Unlock the secrets of Internal Family Systems (IFS) - a powerful therapeutic approach that empowers you to befriend even your most challenging inner "parts." Guided by master IFS practitioner Shankari, discover profound practices rooted in neuroscience to rewrite limiting beliefs, reclaim your wholeness, and live from your truest self. You can find Shankari at: Website https://www.wildwisdomguide.com/ | Episode Transcript https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/transformative-integrative-illuminating-IFS-shankari If you LOVED this episode, you’ll also love the conversations we had with Dr. Mariel Buqué https://episodes.fm/647826736/episode/NjU3NzZlZDFlNzk2YzMwMDExMmMyOWFi about breaking free from inherited trauma. Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the Wheel https://jonathanfields.substack.com/aboutVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sponsors/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonathan Fields?

  So have you ever felt like you've got these different personalities living in your head, constantly disagreeing and leaving you confused or paralyzed even? Like, one part wants to take that leap while another wants to cling to safety? Well, get ready to make peace with yourself because this fascinating conversation is going to explore an incredibly powerful approach to understanding and reconciling these different parts within us. I'm talking about internal family systems, or IFS for short, kind of like the hot thing on the block of processing what goes on inside you these days. And my guest today, Shankari, is one of the most experienced and passionate guides to this transformative modality. With over 15 years immersed in the rich healing landscape of California's legendary

• 0:44Jonathan Fields?

  Esalen Institute, and decades of practice and client work, she has intricately woven together traditions like Gestalt therapy, somatics, shamanism, and more into her IFS practice. And by relating to our inner voices, be they anger, or fear, or even our innermost dreams with compassion and curiosity, IFS reveals, we're not fragmented beings at odds with ourselves, we're a whole with an essential self that can harmonize our parts. And Shankari shares amazingly practical techniques to stop battling unhelpful habits and befriend our most challenging emotional patterns. But IFS also is more than self-help. It is a spiritual practice rooted in cutting-edge neuroscience about how we can literally rewire neural pathways.

• 1:27Jonathan Fields?

  So Shankari reveals the almost magical process of, quote, "unburdening" core beliefs often forged in childhood traumas. It's kind of mind-blowing stuff that gave me a visceral, felt sense of reclaiming my wholeness. So whether you struggle with outdated coping mechanisms, self-doubt, or just feeling disconnected from your truest self, this conversation will illuminate a profound path to personal freedom. So get ready to meet the enlightened community within you, guided by one of the world's foremost experts in IFS. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

• 2:06Speaker 01

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• 2:39Jonathan Fields?

  Good Life Project is sponsored by Stihl. So I am not in the studio today. I'm actually out on the trail in the Rockies at about 6,000 feet above sea level and boulder. The leaves are exploding with color and it's just stunning out. And yes, I'm wearing my favorite Stihl hat. And just last night, I was wearing one of my favorite Stihl jackets, which, if you know me, is not unusual. I wear the hat almost every day, and my Stihl jackets pretty much live on me all fall and winter. There's even a Stihl shop back in town, practically in my backyard. Here is why I love them. Stihl is designed and tested in Jackson Hole at the base of the Tetons by locals who ski and bike and hike and climb and fish there pretty much every day. They have been at it since 2011, so they know warmth and they also know style.

• 3:24Jonathan Fields?

  Everything I have from them, it works great, it holds up in every condition, and also looks awesome. And their hometown down is 800 filled down, but it feels more like just your favorite hoodie than a puffy. And ski season is almost here, so gear up now the way that the locals do. Go to stihl.com/goodlife for 20% off your order. That's S-T-I-O dot com slash good life. Stihl.com/goodlife. Stihl, designed and tested in Jackson Hole. Good Life Project is supported by Ernesto rugs. So a small confession, our front porch has been the most neglected corner of our homes since we moved in. It's the first thing anyone steps onto and it's been kind of greeting people with a sad

• 4:04Jonathan Fields?

  too small mat. Ernesta sent me their samples and now they're making us a rug. And the cool thing is for $10 you get five oversized 12 by 12 samples. So you see the colors at real scale in your own space before you even get it. So we lived with all five colors for a few days and cool morning light and golden afternoon light. And we're sure to be rossling the sky, but Caldwell just kind of kept quietly winning. The thing you're certain about isn't always the thing that fits. And because Ernesta rugs are custom size, cut to the ends, the one we ordered is made to our exact six and a half feet by nine feet space, not close enough. Visit ernesta.com and order five samples for only $10 and you'll get $50 toward any rug of your choice. That's

• 4:48Jonathan Fields?

  E R N E S T A dot com. I think folks, if they've been exposed to it, you know, like many of them became familiar with IFS or Internal Family Systems through Dick Schwartz and his works are like really teasing this out, the notion of parts or parts work. And I want to dive into that with you because I think it's so powerful and it's also, I feel like it's really becoming part of sort of like the zeitgeist these days. I just hear everybody talking about it. But I'm also curious, you know, when you start out more somatically oriented, what's the journey for you to go from there to really deepening into Internal Family Systems or parts work?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. In my 15 years at Esalen, I was there in so many different ways during that 15 years. It wasn't just like one static, here's how I am. You know, I started off as this month long work scholar and then a year long extended studies program and then, and that was all, I was working in the kitchen and I had come there and I had these kitchen issues and I was working through them by working in a kitchen. And then I worked in the IT department and then I taught classes and and just, you know, just the fabric of one's life.

• 5:59Jonathan Fields?

  Um, Esalen, for those who don't know, by the way, is this fantastic place in Big Sur, California, right, like literally built into the the bluffs overlooking the ocean. And and for for, I want to say generations, a few generations now, it's been this place where sort of like the the the leading minds in science, in medicine, in spirituality, in killing modalities kind of all come together. And there's this magical, almost like stew that gets formed where like there's a cross pollination that's that's really powerful.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. So basically at Esalen at that time and for many years, not so much now, I think, is that Gestalt. So Esalen was a place known as a place without having a flag. There was not one like paradigm or modality that led anything, but Gestalt was used as a framework for communication within the community and the administration. And Gestalt is like IFS, process oriented parts work. So what that means is it's also very somatically based, just like IFS. For example, as an extended student in the year long program, it's like I would be in process for my work group for two hours a week.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  And then I had a special process group for being an extended student. And then, you know, more and more. And so it's just like, really, like, it's all about getting in touch with the parts of yourself, hearing their voices, feeling them in your body, moving through them, really communicating like this I vow relationship and speaking for myself instead of saying, you did this and or you you know what it's like when this, instead of saying that, it's like, oh, I I had this experience. And so like centering, it's just like, oh, yeah, what's happening for me? And even when someone is in, when there's a facilitator and someone's going through their process work, let's say they're in what's called the hot seat originally with Fritz Perls.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Then it's like, oh, what's it like to sit here and be with myself and be with all of the parts that are arising as I'm watching someone doing their process work with a facilitator? Because it's like, I can't say anything, I can't do anything, I can't interrupt the process. And it's just like, I might be having big, triggering and activated parts of myself arising. So it's like, how do I sit with that? And so it's like, many, many, many hours of doing that and watching people's journeys and their process, just like, so amazing. And so, so I came from this Gestalt background and I studied it and they had a, you know, certificate program in it. But I never felt really called to offer it to other folks.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  And I thought that I would. But what I found out later is, when it came upon IFS, is it's like, oh, it was missing this element that's for me so important, which is spirituality. And also IFS has a very shamanic element. And I really delved into shamanism while I was at Esalen, as these amazing shamans would come there and teach. And the power of the natural place, you know, the land of Esalen and Big Sur is so profound, that, you know, all of that stirred together, where it's just like, oh, spirituality. I'll just share with you. So I was going around to different ashrams and retreat centers. And I was like, where, I knew I wanted to live in a learning community. And, and so I looked at this place

• 9:26Speaker 02

  and I looked at this place, but, but I would find dogma. And it's like, you have to follow this belief and you can't question something. And it's like, oh, I'm not into that. And so, so at Esalen, there's that freedom, because it's like, no one idea captures this place. So there is no dogma. And so, bringing it back around, so lots of shamanism. And so there's Gestalt Processed Parts work, and then there's IFS, which includes shamanistic practices and working in the non-ordinary realm and recognizing that.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  And the spiritual angle, which is this self-energy, this core essence, like to me, it's like the Tao, you know, Tao is everywhere and within everything. So it's like the spark of divinity that we all have and that connects us all. And so IFS, so it's like Gestalt was for me a natural, it was a natural progression to go from that to IFS, where then it's just like, oh yeah, it's got these elements that are just so important to me. So really brought together actually, that everything that I had learned before Esalen and, you know, through that amazing period.

• 10:37Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, that's so interesting. In particular, I never thought of IFS as being so integrated. I'm curious to explore that a bit more with you. It always felt just sort of like fairly linear and practical to me, but maybe that's just the way that it's often brought to us because that kind of goes down easier for a lot of people, you know, especially as like a point of entry to the work. It's just sort of like the more practical approach to it. But I love what you said also about, you know, so often we're invited into a system of practices, but in order to gain access to it, we're also told that we have to buy into a set of beliefs or rules or doctrine or dogma. And we look at the practices, we're

• 11:18Jonathan Fields?

  like, oh, that's kind of cool. Like, I could see how that would really make a difference. But because we're, you know, they're not offered separate from this other set of beliefs that kind of either we don't buy into, or maybe we have a lot of friction with them. And we're not really often given the opportunity to just cherry pick or, you know, like kick the tires of it all and say like, well, but what about this? We kind of throw the whole thing away. We walk away from all of it, rather than saying, no, like, take what makes sense to you, you know, take what feels good to you, what feels nurturing and what might work to you and travel forward with it and then bring it to others if you want. So I love that you kind of looked at this and said, you know, okay, so I'm not the type of person who just says yes to, because somebody else is telling me this is the way it is. And you

• 12:01Jonathan Fields?

  kept exploring and found sort of like a different way into a similar body of work, but in a way that felt much more intuitive and holistic to you.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Yes, I love that word holistic. Absolutely. Wow. You said so many things that excited me right then. So I'm just kind of like, just sitting with what you just shared. I'm like, man, I could go in so many directions. Why don't you lead me?

• 12:25Jonathan Fields?

  Well, let's, why don't we dive into IFS, right? Because I want to really explore that with you and I want to explore your take on it in particular. So for a lot of folks listening, this may be entirely new to them. You know, the idea of internal family systems. And by the way, when we use the phrase IFS, it's really, it's just shorthand for this thing called internal family systems, which a lot of people now call parts work. So for those unfamiliar, maybe explain a little bit what it means to, to work with parts of ourselves and why this approach is so different and powerful.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I'm really into helping support people to be empowered. And it's like, to me, it's so empowering because so often we can feel, I can feel broken. And it's just like, oh, it's empowering because it's like, there is an aspect of you. There is, again, this Tao, right? This divine aspect that connects us all, like this universal energy. And that energy is inside of us and it's not broken and it's whole and we have access to it. And no matter how like, you know, maybe we don't feel like we're worthy of love or, you

• 13:45Speaker 02

  know, any of these like extreme beliefs or ideas that we get about ourselves that we take in because of traumas from when we were kids most often, then this self-energy that we have, it's always there, like the sun. And the parts of ourselves come in these voices that is just like, oh, I'm not worthy or, you know, I don't want to do this or I'm frightened of this. Those are like clouds that obscure the sun, but the sun is always there.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  So in parts work, we learn, it's just like, oh, hey, I'm feeling, you know, nervous about something. And turning towards it with curiosity. And it's like, what is, what's going on? Instead be like, stop feeling that way. I don't want to feel that way. I'm going to ignore it. I'm going to turn it out. And then it's got to get louder and louder. And like, as you mentioned earlier, it's like somatically, it arises within the body. And then it's like, oh, now I've got a migraine. And that's really, oftentimes, it can be a part of ourselves that is been, it's having to shout because you haven't been listening to it.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  And so now it's creating these physical symptoms within you until you like, slow down and turn towards yourself and listen and just sit and patiently welcome whatever arises. So it's like, it's like, even as I'm sharing this, and I hear my language, and it's very spiritual.

• 15:23Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. So when somebody hears this notion of parts of myself, my sense is that folks might struggle with this because, you know, we kind of have the sense of like, but there's just me.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Right, yes.

• 15:37Jonathan Fields?

  I see one body, you know, like one brain, one meat suit, one whatever it is.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:42Jonathan Fields?

  Like, I'm just like, I'm a person, right? And now you're talking about, it's almost like you're saying, well, there's this one person over here that exists within you that feels angry, and another person that wants to protect you, another person that feels hurt, another that's really a dreamer, and like, and, but isn't that all just me? And, um, and, and parts work teases it out in a way, which I think is interesting. So, so like, if, if somebody's working with you, somebody's like, you know, sitting down with you and you're trying to, you're doing the dance of figuring out, are we going to work together? And they bring this up. Like, how, how do you speak to that?

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, to me, the easiest thing is, it's just like, okay. So let's say I was invited to a party. And, and it's just like, oh, it gets to be the time of the party. And part of me is like, yeah, I want to go out. And then another part of me is just like, I just wanna just get in my jammies and get out some ice cream and watch a movie. You know, it's like, I love being with people, but I also have a part that feels antisocial. And so it's just like, oh, I'd rather just like not make the effort of going out and I just wanna sit at home. So there to me is like such, it's just like, I think most people have had that experience where it's just like, hmm, I wanna do this. And then it's just like, I wanna do this completely opposite

• 16:59Speaker 02

  thing. And which one am I gonna do? And, and that's where it's like, you know, what happens within us is, is that, you know, we have these aspects, like, you know, you could call them like alter egos or within us, and they can get polarized. And they get where it's just like, you know, um, let's like, I wanna grow and I wanna do this new thing. And it's just like, no, I wanna stay where I am. And I wanna stay comfortable. And they get in this like tug of war.

• 17:28Jonathan Fields?

  So for sure, many people have experienced, I'm raising my hand. I'm probably gonna experience that five times before the end of today, in all different ways. And for me, because I'm also, you know, much more introverted and sensitive, like my experience is often, well, you know, maybe I'm invited to this gathering. And, and I think about the gathering, I'm like, oh, there'd be interesting people there who I'd love to have conversations. Or maybe there's professional opportunity there. Maybe, maybe there's some voice in my head, maybe there's a part that's saying, oh, you should go to this because it's gonna open doors for you that are really important. And then the other part is like, but dude, like, you're, you're a quieter sensitive person, like, you just wanna hang out at

• 18:11Jonathan Fields?

  home. And like, this is gonna make you really uncomfortable. You know, so like, one part is like, go do this thing. And it's not necessarily a want thing. It's more of like, it's sort of saying, you should do this because the benefits on the other side of it are things that you keep saying that you want. Right? And the other part is like, yeah, but I'm gonna be really uncomfortable doing that. And I have no doubt, like, the people tuning into this conversation have their version of it. Right? Like, how would you even start to think through something like that?

• 18:40Speaker 02

  Hmm. Well, the word that you used was interesting because you said think. And so that's like, oh, of this multitude within us is, is oftentimes, we have a really strong thinker. Who wants to think our way out of things? And so it's just like first noticing, it's just like, oh, you know, that may be a part. And I just want to share with folks that like, one way is I love you using that word tease. As we tease apart, like what's this, this sort of like this village within us, you know, this, this community is called internal family systems. And one way you can think about is it's like, oh, there's like a family inside of me, you know?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  And, and sometimes people are really connected with their, um, like their inner teenager or with, you know, their inner child. And actually, I'm just going to switch tracks real quick and I'm going to just share that it's like, ah, like in a lot of the modalities that I've learned and benefited from, they would often say, um, just, you know, just love your inner child. And I'm just all like, but how? How do I love my inner child? I don't understand. And so I'd be like, all like, like I'd be all activated or upset about something. And I'm like, I love you. And it's just like, ah, you know, I feel like this inside. And then I'm like, I love you. I'm here for you. And it's just all like, it's not working.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  And so for me, IFS is a way in which we can actually communicate with like our inner child, for example, and really form a relationship and have it respond and, and have it know that I'm there for it and I can take care of this little inner wounded child. And that I can actually help, um, what's called, it's like a technical term, unburden. It's a shamanic term as well. Unburden this inner child of the wound that it's carrying. When it took in this message, when I was like two years old and I did something and I got yelled at and it took that in, meaning like, oh, I'm not lovable. There's something inherently wrong with me.

• 20:48Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. So it's almost like you have, so you, you have a family existing. I'm, I'm visualizing now. Okay. So, you know, I've got a little family that just kind of like resides inside of me and each one of them has their own agenda.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  Yes. And that's so perfect because that's what I was going to share is that the difference, the way you could tell like a part of yourself versus like, well, how do I know it's like I'm all me, right? So how can I tell? So even though I'm all me, there are sometimes these voices where it's just like, I don't feel like going out tonight, you know? And so it's like, well, how can I tell whether I'm in what's called self-energy, whether I'm tapped into my core essence, you know, my intuition, or whether I'm in like, you know, what's known as blended with a part of myself and, you know, one of these voices that I hear. And it's because the parts of ourselves have agendas and self-energy, this core essence of ourself, does not have an agenda.

• 21:43Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  It's this inner healing agent.

• 21:47Jonathan Fields?

  So if you're feeling an agenda, then pretty safe that one of those parts is rearing its head and saying, then probably waving its finger inside of you, saying, this is the thing that has to happen. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

• 22:05Jonathan Fields?

  Good Life Project is sponsored by Quince. So these days, I tend to want fewer things made well. That's how I'm thinking about gifts this year, and it's why Quince is on my list. So Quince makes elevated everyday essentials from premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and stretch denim at 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Cashmere sweaters start at just $50. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. Our executive producer, Lindsay, actually just ordered their organic cotton denim chore jacket in indigo blue. Her verdict, dreamy and soft. She also grabbed Quince's bees oil wood conditioner. It's made in the USA from beeswax and mineral oil. It's food safe and it's lovely on cutting boards and bowls. And I actually just got the yummiest

• 22:49Jonathan Fields?

  button down from Quince, which is great as the weather gets cooler. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about us, let them know it was Good Life Project. It's the best way to support the show. Good Life Project is sponsored by Talkiature. So you know that moment when you finally say, okay, I need some help? That takes courage. And then you start calling psychiatrists and hear, "We're not taking new patients," or "Our next opening is months away." Talkiatory exists to change

• 23:28Jonathan Fields?

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• 24:13Jonathan Fields?

  Good Life Project is supported by Kachava. So I used to think being salty was reserved for bad moods and pretzels, but lately I have come to realize that a little salty edge actually makes life, and especially dessert, way more interesting. Any pastry chef will tell you that a pinch of salt isn't there to ruin the party, it's there to make the sweet parts just really shine, which is exactly what Kachava pulled off with their new salted caramel. First sip, I actually laughed. It's that good, rich caramel, a little salty edge, and none of the sugary drawbacks. And it's still the Kachava that I count on. Two scoops for complete nutrition with plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and so much more. No artificial flavors, colors, or sweeteners, no fillers, no nonsense,

• 24:58Jonathan Fields?

  which if you're feeling a little salty yourself is kind of the point. Embrace your salty side. Go to kachava.com and use the code GOODLIFE for 15% off your order. That's kachava.com, code GOODLIFE. I think one of the interesting concepts around parts work also is, you know, so we've got this family within us. We've got these different parts with different personalities, almost different agendas. They want different things, right? It would be easy, I think, and maybe almost intuitive to sort of say, well, let me line up the different people in here. Like, let's look at each one of the family members, right? And start to label them. Okay, good, bad, helpful, unhelpful. Because that's what we do.

• 25:41Jonathan Fields?

  We put people outside of us in buckets. So I'm guessing that like when you see this in the work, like, we try and put the people inside of us into those buckets of good, bad, helpful, or unhelpful, too.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Well, see, that's the amazing thing, is that these aspects within us, they are more than what we would label them as. Like, let's say it's like, oh, I've got an inner critic, and I've got a thinker, you know, and I've got one who feels, who's angry. I got an angry one, you know? And it's just like, it's so easy to think that that's all that they are. But once you actually start forming a relationship to what you, because you are hearing the voices, you are, you know, you are responding, and you're kind of being, you know, we get a little bit hijacked by our parts, and a little bit like we're puppets of them. And so it's like, when we create some separation, we can actually be in relationship with them, rather than acting

• 26:33Speaker 02

  out how they are. So it's like, I don't need to, to, you know, act in an angry manner, when I actually listen to that one, who I maybe have labeled as angry, but who actually is like, much more complex, and, and it's got a whole, it's like, it's very fractal, because it's like, the macrocosm is reflected, and the inside is the microcosm.

• 26:55Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, no, that makes sense. So if we look at each one of these different parts, let's say the angry part, right? Pretty safe bet we all have in somewhere in us an angry part. Maybe it's not angry right now, but... But you know, it's probably in there. Like, maybe it's kind of snoozing right now. Let's see the angry part pops up, right? You're in a conversation with somebody and the angry part starts to like, say like, "Take the lead here." And then, probably not infrequently, when we find out, we kind of like realize, we zoom the lens out for a hot second and realize, "Oh, like, I'm actually coming into this conversation from a place of anger, and that's a bad thing." So like, this angry part in me is taking the lead, and that's a bad thing. I need, like, I need to actually figure out a way to shut them down or to turn them off, because I don't want that to happen.

• 27:40Jonathan Fields?

  I would imagine that's a response a lot of times, but that's not necessarily the constructive way to deal with this at all.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Exactly, exactly. So that's our natural tendency, and that's why it really helps to work with someone, especially to begin with. But the neat thing about IFS is that you can do it yourself as well, right? So it's not like, you know, that's why I think it's very empowering, because you can learn how to do it yourself and help yourself. But it definitely helps in the beginning to have someone help facilitate and support your process and to hold space for everything that comes up, right? Because it's like, "Oh, when I start to connect, it's just like, okay, I've got this angry part. I'm feeling angry and I yelled at my kids, and then I go, you know, get some space and I go for a walk, and I realize, oh, jeez, you know, I don't want to be that person.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  I don't want to be yelling at my kids." But it's just like, "Oh, there's just so much going on. I just feel so overwhelmed." And as you turn towards yourself with curiosity, where it's just like, "What was going on with me?" You know? "I know that I'm not only this angry thing. I know that it's like, oh, I got a little activated. You know, something my husband said earlier in the day really triggered me." And it's like, that was kind of this undercurrent going on. And this is like the self exploration. And it's like, what's, what's really happening? So it's, it's having this approach. And that's where it's like, that's that healing agent of your core essence,

• 29:10Speaker 02

  your self energy, which is, it's like, it has these qualities. There's like these eight qualities that start with a C, like calmness and curiosity and compassion. And when our parts, you know, all these voices within us can give us some space. Like, you know, it's like that Inside Out movie.

• 29:30Jonathan Fields?

  Love that movie, by the way.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  Yes. And it's like, it really shows its parts work. And it's like so beautiful that, that people can really see what's happening. And it's as we get space and it's just like some separation where it's like, this is not my whole identity. I'm not this angry person who's so activated and triggered all the time. It's like, oh, it's like, no, it's over here and I've got some space and I can relate to it and can turn towards myself. And, you know, this angry one, and it's like underneath that is probably a little, um, for me, you know, a little girl who was really hurt. And that's what, you know, the strategy that my parts came up with when I was little is it's like, oh, she's got to be angry and she's got to, you know, you know, fight to be protected.

• 30:14Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. So it's less about trying to take that part that led to behavior that you like, didn't want to happen. And rather than trying to say like, I need to snuff that out. Like I need to, we need to just put an end to this angry part. You know, like acknowledging that this is actually a part that's within me. And that part has probably also served some sort of important purpose. Like I'm here now, like, and maybe the fact that I'm here now, maybe I'm not as like happy or functional, whatever it is now as, as I could be or I'd love to be, but, but I'm here now. And there's a lot of good in the fact that I'm here now. So maybe the fact that there is an angry part in me has served some role in keeping me, you know, okay enough to be here now.

• 30:59Jonathan Fields?

  And maybe going deeper and exploring like, what is the intent? Underneath the anger that I can understand. Because I would imagine if you sort of like try and do battle with a part, like any person on the outside, like your in your inside part, your person on the inside who's angry is going to put up the shields and get defensive too, and it's not going to be helpful.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's not very productive. Yeah. And guess what? We've tried that, right? How many times have we all tried that? And where does it get us, right? So I don't know, do something different, actually. And, um, you know, turn towards yourself with some curiosity and some compassion. And that's what, that's what I know from this work is that all of these parts and aspects of ourselves, it's just like all of these different voices, um, all these different characters, um, and different emotions. It's just like, they have the best intentions for you. You know, the, the one that's so angry is trying so hard to help you and protect you. It does not feel like that. It does not look like that. Okay.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  But it's true. And so as you find out, it's just like, they just want to be heard and witnessed and validated. And, and, and that validation has to do with, it's just like, yeah, when I was a little kid, that's a strategy that I needed and that worked for me. And now it doesn't work anymore. And now it's becoming a problem and it's actually hurting me. And this part, like when it hurts, when it hears that, like if the anger one hears, it's just like, oh, it's actually hurting my relationship with my husband. When it hears that, it's just like, oh, criminy, I was just trying to help you. And then it just becomes a lot more motivated to actually, you know, to help you.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  And, and the way that it becomes free to be able to do that, to do something different, is by having you, you know, kind of shower this self compassion and curiosity towards yourself. And then the angry one is like, well, tell you all about, well, here's why I'm angry. And I'm actually protecting this little one who was like, you know, two years old and got yelled at and took in this message. And then it's like through this process in IFS and unburdening, we can help the little one who's known as an exile to let go of this belief, this extreme belief or idea that was never true and was not theirs and that was put upon them. And so then it can release this idea that's just like, oh, there's something inherently wrong with me.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  I'm unlovable. And then the little one who's an exiled like can come and return to the rest of my system and brings these gifts and wisdom. And all of our parts, they can, you know, look angry and be all kinds of ways. But it's like within them, they all have this gifts and wisdom. And they communicate through our body and in other ways. And like, you know, like I said, like somatically, it's like, oh, it's like, what happens if I get these migraines every time my sister calls me? It's just like, oh, there's might be some kind of connection there. And, you know, um, not that all migraines come from, you know, but, uh, but there's definitely, they communicate through our body.

• 34:08Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:09Jonathan Fields?

  So then the, the way that we might think about it is more if we, if we identify this angry part in us or this hurt part in us or this protector part in us, right? And it's leading to behavior that we just don't feel is helpful for who we are and the life that we have now and the relationships that we have now. Rather than trying to eliminate it or do battle with it. It's almost like we do the opposite. We, we acknowledge it. We, we thank it because at some point when that behavior was established, if we go back in time, it sounds like there was a good intent. It was trying to keep you alive, to protect you, to create an outcome that was safe for you. So like there's a, there was a purpose. There was a reason that this part

• 34:53Jonathan Fields?

  took on that personality at some point. So it's almost like we go back and say, okay, there was some sort of benevolent intent. There was a, there was a good purpose, good intention there. And almost acknowledge it and say, thank you in a way because that behavior, you know, like kept me okay. But if we zoom the lens forward now, I don't need that same response to keep me okay in the life that I'm living now and the relationships that I'm having now. So can we have a conversation about maybe exploring a different way of showing up? I mean, I'm probably totally butchering it here, but does that make sense?

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, you got it. You're so right on. I was like, oh, my God, you could be a great teacher of this. Yeah, absolutely. Except for the last part.

• 35:35Jonathan Fields?

  Okay.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so that's where getting to know the parts and finding out like, what's your story? What happened for you? And oftentimes, you know, people get this information within themselves in different ways, but it's like an image might flash or they might hear like, you know, a word or something within themselves as they're turned internally. And so it's like I facilitate and hold space for someone to go onto that internal journey. And I help guide them with these questions. And the questions help support their getting into contact and finding out what's really happening, what's going on. So there might be like an image that pops up and it's just like, oh, it's like I see

• 36:22Speaker 02

  me as like a little two-year-old and I'm crying and I'm rocking or something and there's like a broken plate, you know? And it's just all like, oh, oh, my gosh, wow. You know, there can be this cognitive moment where it's just like, oh, I get what's going on. And I'm like, oh, wow, yeah, that happened. And I can understand why. It's like you felt like you need to step in and that I needed to be angry and push out when I felt this way because otherwise I felt so small and worthless.

• 36:52Jonathan Fields?

  So I'm curious now, you mentioned there are questions, and I know these questions that I'm sure you ask and explore when you're working with somebody. Are there some questions that you might be able to share?

• 37:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:02Jonathan Fields?

  That we could think about to sort of like explore this?

• 37:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and absolutely. And that's why it's so wonderful. I just want to share that IFS is awesome because it's really something that people can explore on their own. They can go to a facilitator, a practitioner about. And so there's free meditations, there's all kinds of tools and these questions are freely publicized. So you can definitely do the work on your own. But I will say it can be hard when we're so in that place. That's known as being blended with a part, uh, which is where it's just like, this is me. Right? I don't understand. It's just like, yeah, I hear these different, you know, yeah, I want to go out.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  You know, I don't want to go out, but it's still, this is me. It's, it's really hard, I find, to have the support to turn inwards and get enough space from like, like, let's say my angry part, especially because, you know, some of these emotions can be so strong. But, you know, one of the magic, I, I just love this question and it's so cool too, because there's, there's this whole neurobiological aspect to it. So like, it's like I got my angry parts up and it's like, let's say I just yelled at my husband or something and I went into the next room and I'm just like, what's going on? You know, I'm like, I'm so angry, I could kill him, you know? And then it's just like, and then it's like, I notice it's just like, okay, yeah, I'm feeling really angry.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  And then it's just like, okay, well, how do I feel towards this anger that I have? So the magic question is, how do I feel towards? And neurobiologically, it's so cool that because that word towards, it's not how, how do I feel about? It's towards and because it's like, we have all of these different parts of our brain and they light up at different times for different reasons. And that word towards helps light up, like I think it's your prefrontal cortex. And it helps to light up this part of your brain that is a bit like the witness consciousness.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  And that's the part of the brain in which could feel compassion or self compassion. And it distances and it creates some space. Like I, as I keep saying, we gotta, gotta create space, especially when it's like, I'm so blended with my anger. So I'm, I'm so infuriated. It's like, well, how do I get some space from this? Because when I get some space, this happened to me earlier today, is it's just like, oh, all of a sudden I feel calmer. And then I feel more creative and I'm like, oh, well, actually, you know, the this guy's coming to repair something and he can come, you know, at two o'clock after this podcast interview. But I didn't, when I was just all like, oh, my God, when's he gonna come? I didn't have access to those qualities of this self-energy, this core essence, which

• 39:45Speaker 02

  has those qualities of that creativity, clarity, calmness, courage, curiosity. So that's when our lives can really change, right? Like I said before, it's like people would say, well, you know, just love your inner child. Well, how do you do that? You know, and how do I make the change in my life where I'm not, you know, when, when something happens where I get activated, I don't immediately like lash out? Like I, when I was a child, I was lashed out at. And so, so how do I actually make that change? And it's just like, oh, okay. Yeah, wow. It's like, you know, I feel like some healing has happened because it's like I can sit

• 40:27Speaker 02

  here and I can, you know, have this thing that formerly inflamed me and activated me. And now it's just like, oh, it's like, maybe something is like, so it's like, I'm upset about something when this happens. And it's like, okay, well, you know, let me listen to you. What are you upset about? Oh, that makes sense. Thank you for sharing that with me. And then it's like, I don't need to, you know, go to marriage counseling because, you know, I yelled at my husband.

• 40:52Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, the, the change in language, the, the question is, if I got it right, how do I feel toward this particular part or like the behavior that this particular part is expressing right now? Which does feel really different to me than how do I feel about? Like, how do I feel toward like the angry part rather than how do I feel about? To me, for some reason, my brain immediately goes into judgy mode. Whereas Tor goes into curiosity mode and I don't, it's weird because I'm a language geek and it's a little weird to me that that's very, what seems like a very slight change in language actually feels like it just, it allows me to step into the inquiry just really differently.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and even more exciting than that to me is the fact that there is a neurobiological, we have like proof in the science world and people love the science, right? And it's like there's proof that it lights up a different part of your brain. And this part of your brain is, is that kind of like I said, that witness consciousness where there's this separation. It's just like, oh, and now I can feel compassion. And one of the cool things is that also when you feel compassion, it drips this gaba, which is this really yummy like neurochemical onto your limbic system, which is another part of your brain. And it's just all like, mm, yum, yum, yum. And it just relaxes your whole system and it's just all like angry, who's angry? You know?

• 42:20Speaker 02

  And, and so it's like, you know, and that's like, I guess sometimes folks experience things like that when they get in touch with non-ordinary reality and altered states that come, come about through meditation or prayer states or shamanic journeys or, you know, psychedelics, all different kinds of ways in which we can access that type of consciousness.

• 42:46Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. Yeah, I mean, gaining access to that state is very cool. I actually just recently sat down with a neuroscientist who is doing research on out-of-body experiences. It's fascinating. She's literally examining what's happening in the brain during out-of-body experiences and showing these profound changes. But one of the things that the research was showing. Was that these experiences tend to give people access to empathy and compassion, both for the towards themselves, like self compassion and also empathy like towards other people. And that's kind of like, you're describing this without necessarily having an out of body experience, like, like a change in language can sort of like create

• 43:28Jonathan Fields?

  the distance that allows you to then see and experience and acknowledge this part that's within you, almost with more openness and empathy and kindness. And in doing that, then almost like, sit down, have a cup of coffee with them to like, figure things out, rather than go and fight it out and duke it out, which is never going to end well.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Exactly. Or try to put it in that box. Exactly. You got it. And that's what I like to share with folks, you know, and like, um, like initial meetings is it's like, oh, it's like, this is like a meet and greet, you know, it's like, you're just going to get to know some of the folks inside of you. And, you know, whoever shows up is who we're going to communicate with and learn more about. And so, yeah, it's a little meet and greet, a little coffee klatch. Absolutely. Sit down and have some coffee, instead of trying to fight, because like you, it's like you shared, it's just like, trying to stuff it away, trying to repress it, trying to silence it, trying to, to fight with it, does, it does not work.

• 44:27Jonathan Fields?

  Right.

• 44:30Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Your Life Project is sponsored by Vinted. So here's a question that I have been sitting with. How many things in your closet were bought for, let's say, a version of you who never quite showed up? Maybe it's the tailored jacket for the dinners you were going to go to, or someday pieces with the tag still on them. They're lovely clothes. They're just not yours anymore. That's where Vinted comes in. So Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where everyday people sell the clothes that they're not wearing to people who actually will. Listening on Vinted is quick and simple. You take a few photos, write a short description, and you're done. Once something sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you.

• 45:12Jonathan Fields?

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• 45:54Jonathan Fields?

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• 46:36Jonathan Fields?

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• 47:17Jonathan Fields?

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• 47:33Jonathan Fields?

  So do any of these parts ever actually go away? Not because we're trying to extinguish them, but do we ever reach a point where that angry part, that hurt part, that's throwing up protection? And maybe the protection is anger or rage, whatever it may be. Do we get to a point where we have that cough, where we acknowledge it? We see the good intentions behind it. We acknowledge that, yes, this served a really important purpose. Like, at some point in my past, that's no longer necessary. Does that part just stop acting in that way? Or does the angry part in you effectively just kind of sublime into the ether?

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. And this is something that, as one works with their parts, sometimes that's a fear that they have. It's just like, oh, it's just like, if I stop this role of implementing this strategy that no longer works, then am I devalued? And then am I cast away from the system? And no longer a part of the family?

• 48:36Jonathan Fields?

  So this is like the part, basically, making that argument?

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's just like, it's so scary. Can you imagine? It's just like, oh, I've been this key player. I've been running the show. And it's like, now I see that, you know, because we've been communicating. It's like, I see. It's just like, this isn't working and it's not helping. And I actually do want to help you. I mean, I know. That's why I started this whole job, you know, to begin with. And then, you know, as you communicate with them, one of the questions is also, it's just like, oh, well, if you didn't have to do this strategy, which my example is like, you know, get all angry. If you didn't have to do that, what would you rather do? And then the part's like, hmm, I don't know. But it sounds good not to have to do that. You know? It's just like, it's because it's tiring.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  And it takes up so much of our vital energy. And so, one of the neat things about this is, as this part gets healed, like this angry part gets healed through this process, that I can share more about. Then you gain, like, you know, like I shared, it's like, these parts have um like treasures and wisdom and gifts for us, and they also have a lot of energy. So when we don't fight against them, that's like, that, now I got so much more energy because they're not fighting. All the, all the energy is going into the fight, right? And instead of this one having to do this job of me getting angry, I mean, obviously, you can see like physically how much like energy that would take, then, then that vital energy comes back to me and can

• 50:07Speaker 02

  flow in my body, you know, again, the somatics and the energetics. So it can flow in my body and then I've got much more access to my life force.

• 50:18Jonathan Fields?

  So when that part then becomes healed, is that what you were describing earlier as unburdening, or is that something different?

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. I, I just want to also share that there's parts within us that don't have any of these burdens of like an extreme belief or idea where it's like I'm intrinsically worthless. There's plenty of parts within us that are not wounded, right? And they're whole and they help us to, you know, live our lives. And then we've got these other ones who are trying to help us live our lives, but it's like that strategy doesn't work anymore. And there's, and it's pointing out actually that there's a wound and there's an opportunity to do some healing. And that's why I say that it's just like being activated by like, you know, someone else or by something is a gift. You know, it doesn't feel like it. It's like all of a sudden I'm really, you know, really fricking angry. So it's like,

• 51:09Speaker 02

  this doesn't feel like a gift, but you know, it is a gift because it's like that's a red flag where it's like, I have wounding in me and here's an opportunity to heal it because I can't heal it if I'm not aware of it. And when it pops up, I'm aware of it and it's, it's real and it's on. And with support, you know, I can like turn towards myself and I can actually help that and heal. And so the healing process is where, once the protectors have given permission, So there's protectors and there's exiles. Uh, and then there's healthy ones, you know, are ones that have been unburdened of their wound and or never had a wound. And so, once the protectors give permission, they're the ones who have this like, like a job

• 51:54Speaker 02

  or a role where they've got that strategy and they're enacting it. And that's what kind of causes trouble in your life, um, and within yourself. And, uh, they give permission for you to make contact with the exile, who are usually these little children and like your inner child. And you get access to the little ones and then you help heal them. And it's all at their own pace and it's in their own timing. And it's not because it's just like, it's not like, cause I wanna heal you and you're gonna heal and I'm gonna rescue you. That does not work. That's an agenda. That's just another part, right? And it, and the, this other one's not gonna buy it. The inner child's not gonna buy it.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  So it's like coming from that place of that calmness and clarity and compassion and curiosity. Then it's just all like, you know, hey, I'm here for you. And there's this opportunity to let go of this heavy burden that you've been carrying, which in this example I've been using is, it's just like, I'm intrinsically worthless and unlovable, uh, because I broke a plate and they yelled at me and I was two, right? So it's like, we make the offer and it's just like, hey, you don't have to do it, but I want you to know that, that there's a ritual that we can do and it can really help you out and you don't have to carry that, you know? And this is only after communicating with them and, and hearing what's been going on

• 53:17Speaker 02

  for them, you know, what they're carrying exactly. So that's the healing process. And when that one is ready and if it wants to, it can let go of everything that it's been carrying. Or it maybe, may, might feel like it's like, you know what? I need to hold on to a little bit of this, you know? I'm not ready to let go of everything. That happens too. So it's like, you know, like, there's not a pressure where it's just like, you've gotta heal and you've gotta heal in a certain time and you gotta heal completely, right? Cause what happened to us in trauma when we were little kids is, um, that we didn't have any self-agency. And so it's really about, it's like, that's where it's just like, oh, I might be calling it the angry part.

• 53:58Speaker 02

  But as I get to know it, the protector, who's the angry one, as I get to know it, it's just like, hey, what do you want me to call you?

• 54:07Speaker 02

  And it, it, it might say it's like,

• 54:10Speaker 02

  You know, sometimes people are like, it says the craziest things, like it's like, you know, forest cloud. It's just like, well, I don't know why, but it's just like, let's go with it. You gotta watch out. Sometimes another part will try to name it, right? Or you'll try to name it because you're being another part. And it's just like, that doesn't work. They don't want to be named by somebody else. They want their own agency. Because like I said, when I was a little kid, it's just like, I didn't have my own agency. So that unburdening process frees up this, this one who was exiled away from your system, from the internal family. And it frees them up, and they let go of this like belief that there's something wrong with me. And then

• 54:51Speaker 02

  it's welcomed in to like that family again and connection. And that is so incredibly healing. And then neurobiologically, there's this cool thing. There's this thing called memory reconsolidation. So that actually happens in this unburdening process. And that's where, you know, we've got our neural networks and they're, we've been doing something for, you know, 40 years. It's like, I've been getting angry for 40 years. And I've got this deep groove and path that my neural network, the energy flows down. And it's like, oh, it's like, when this thing, when I get activated, this thing, this thing's going to happen. And so it's like, I'm like a, you know, it's like, I'm a slave to my programming. And it's just like, I have to do this thing, because I think that's, you know, I think I'm afraid that this thing's going

• 55:35Speaker 02

  to happen. And so during this process, memory consolidation is something that happens naturally. But knowing about it, you can help support it. And it's consciously in EMDR, which is that high movement healing modality. And then there's a bunch of modalities like IFS that didn't consciously know about it, but it makes use of. And so this is where it's like, so wild that science is backing all of this stuff up. And to me, it's also, there's a spiritual angle to it. So the neural network is like, oh, I'm intrinsically wrong. And then it's like, oh, and yet, it's just like, oh, like my core essence is caring for me. This is that little child who's just like, whoa, I feel this terrible way. And then it's like, oh, here's

• 56:17Speaker 02

  an example of where I am being loved. And it's like, my emotion is not too much. And I am lovable exactly the way that I am. And I'm not, you know, I don't have to change how I am. And now the energy can start moving in that direction. And under the neural network and and then the old pattern no longer, you know, that neural network shuts down. And so that's memory reconsolidation where it's just like, oh, like when I was that two year old child forty years ago, this thing happened and I had been stuck, that part of me was trapped in time and space where it was always happening.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  And now it's like, we take that, that, that little one, that two year old out of that situation. And now it comes to be in the present moment with me and it's free. And so, so that changes everything. And then now the, the energy goes on this new neural network. So it's like this blending of this, you know, this spiritual and neurobiological and, and mystical, you know, process.

• 57:24Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, it sounds really powerful. One of the questions that's sort of like lingering with me is you described, you know, when you, so you, you address the protector who sort of like gives you access to the exile, which often is some, some form of, of younger version of you, maybe even early childhood where something happened where they took on a belief system, like this is my belief, you know, about my self-worth. And, and then you sort of like inquire into, are you ready to let this go without forcing it, without saying like, it's time, you have to do this now. How do you know? Like, how does the exile know when they're ready? Or how do we know when the exile is ready?

• 58:03Speaker 02

  They, they make it quite clear. You know, all you gotta do is ask. And because you've been working on this internal relationship with the angry one and the, and the inner child. And this can, this can happen like in one 90 minute session, or it might be something that happens over a couple of different sessions. And you just ask them and they're like, okay, you know, and or they'll say, no, I'm not ready yet. And it's just like, okay, well, what do you need in order to be ready? And you don't ever have to be ready. Right? That's the thing. It's like, all parts are welcome. You don't ever have to change. Right? It's just like, I accept you and love you the way you are. That's what we didn't get at the time of the trauma. Right? We didn't get, I accept you and I love you the way you are.

• 58:44Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. So maybe even that alone has like an effect of of allowing that part, that exile in particular, to start to reshape its beliefs.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yes. Because it's like, oh, my gosh. And that's that memory consolidation, too. It's like, oh, my gosh, I'm actually receiving the thing that I didn't receive. And it's just like, oh, healing, right? Yeah.

• 59:09Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. I have to say, it it sounds so interesting. For somebody who's who's never heard of this before, they're probably, you know, like, following along this conversation and in part interested and in part suspect, like, wait, really? Like,

• 59:23Speaker 02

  Watch the movie. Watch the movie Inside Out. There's a one and a two.

• 59:27Jonathan Fields?

  Right. There's like, there's like a family dinner table inside of me. And like, we've got like, all the dysfunctional, like, people who are showing up and the functional people are showing up. And it's like, but it is interesting. And what's interesting to me is I've been sort of like, watching the body of work around it. And it really has become, I mean, I feel like CBT has, for a long time, surely been the primary mode of therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy. And I'm just seeing variations of IFS and parts work really becoming a part of therapeutic offerings, like whether it's on the spiritual side, whether it's on the more traditional academic side, whether it's that there's something to modality. When I start to see such a widespread adoption, and then I talk to people

• 1:00:10Jonathan Fields?

  who have told me about just profound, profound shifts that have happened after years of trying to make those shifts happen in different ways, you know, the I think the invitation here is to just be open to exploring, you know, because I think there's a lot of richness in the body of work around parts and around IFS and the way that different people are approaching parts work as well. If we if we zoom the lens out a little bit here, do you have a sense for what parts work might do for us at scale? You know, I think we're in a moment in culture in the world right now where there is a lot of rage, there is

• 1:00:50Jonathan Fields?

  a lot of anger, there's a lot of hurtness and pain and a ton of protection. I wonder if you think, you know, beyond the work that you do individually and with groups, you know, about the the potential for these ideas at scale?

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. First off, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. Right? When we talk about going scale, right? And then I just want to pop back to what you were previously saying, which is the difference between like CBT and IFS is that IFS is experiential. And so it's just like, do not take my word for anything. Go and try it, right?

• 1:01:29Jonathan Fields?

  Right.

• 1:01:30Speaker 02

  Learn a little bit and try it yourself. And it's just like, the proof is in the pudding. Um, so that's what's neat about it. And that's why it's such a dramatic shift. And it's like, what does the word experiential mean? It means that you're actually doing it instead of talking about doing it. And that is a really powerful difference. And so, so I just want to encourage people, just, there's so many different ways. Like I said, there's free meditations, there's all kinds of things that, uh, just like little tiny supports or tools, uh, to just try it out and see for yourself. And if you're interested, then you can go deeper.

• 1:02:05Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Jonathan Fields?

  So as we have this conversation, there's a lot of fear and anxiety. And for some, a sense of hopelessness or powerlessness for many. And those are probably, you know, those, those, to a certain extent, you could say, well, those are also parts of ourselves speaking. But as you said earlier, those are not the only parts of ourselves. Like we have playful parts, curious parts, hopeful parts. What inspires you and makes you feel hopeful and powerful these days?

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Hmm. Wow. That's a good question. Um.

• 1:02:38Speaker 02

  Well, I have really been doing the practice of, of IFS. Cause it's like, I, I see it as like, uh, you know, IFS, it can be many things. Like you said, very academic, very more, you know, kind of out there like I am. But I see it as like a, a daily practice. And for me, it's a daily spiritual practice. And so getting to know my interior landscape and make friends within myself. It's just like, I have seen, it's like, I have become a better friend to other people. Um, I've become a better person. I know myself so much more. Uh, I can tolerate these different sensations. And actually, right before this, this podcast, I was just like, oh, I was feeling really nervous.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  And it's like, I know there's some specific parts that I've worked with. And I'm like, you know what? I just need y'all to give me some space. Um, I've got, I just need some space for two hours. I feel you and I see you and I witness you. And I'm going to come back to you in two hours and know that, that I'm, you know, I'm still connected with you. But right now, I need space from this feeling of vibration in my body of that nervousness. And as I did that, then it's just like, oh, I felt like this, it had been in the center of my chest. This vibration, this kind of high vibration, and then it moved out to my fingertips and to my feet. And so I was just like, okay. And so then I was like, okay, I'm walking. And I'm feeling my feet against the, the floor and I feel this, this vibration.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  And then it's just like, oh, I'm stepping into my power. And it's like, oh, this shift from this nervousness, no matter what, I've got energy running in me, right? And there's, there's these parts that are like, oh, that energy is, we're nervous and, and, and then it's just like, oh, but this energy also can be the excitement of empowerment of stepping into my power. And so it's just like, well, you know, how do I harness what's, what's happening inside of me? And, and communicate and, and be in like community and be, you know, led. So that's just an example from, from, you know, the, the activation of the energy in my body from, from being nervous or excited about coming on this podcast and, and how I utilize that.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  And I find that very empowering instead of being kind of like, um, like you said, it's like, there's a lot of despair and hopelessness out there. And it's like, I may have that within me and I have other aspects that I can draw on and both can exist at the same time. And I don't need to stop one from communicating with me in order to embody the other of that, that empowerment.

• 1:05:17Jonathan Fields?

  I love that. It feels like a great place for us to come full circle as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up?

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Oh, to live a good life, I say, thank you. Thank you. It feels like a blessing to live a good life. Yes, I say yes to that.

• 1:05:38Jonathan Fields?

  Thank you.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 1:05:42Jonathan Fields?

  Hey, if you loved this episode, Saipai, you'll also love the conversation we had with Dr. Mariel Bouquet about breaking free from inherited trauma. You can find a link to the episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields, editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube, too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a seven second favor, share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share it with more, that's awesome, too. But just

• 1:06:24Jonathan Fields?

  one person even, then invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields signing off for Good Life Project.

• 1:06:47Jonathan Fields?

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• 1:07:31Jonathan Fields?

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• 1:07:52Speaker 03

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