Gossiping About Failed Beauty Brands, Not Having Kids, and Genius PR Moves (Maggie & Katie Sellers)

What if the brand you built failed—and it wasn’t your fault? What if dating came with warning labels, and choosing not to have more kids was the most radical decision of all? In this week’s episode of Hot Smart Rich, Maggie Sellers and Katie Sellers are back in the studio, and this one’s personal. From beauty brand collapses to viral dating apps and modern motherhood, they unpack the stories that had them hooked (and sometimes heartbroken) this week. They go deep on: - Why it’s never been easier to launch a beauty brand—and never harder to keep it alive - What Ty Haney’s return to Outdoor Voices teaches us about comeback stories and founder evolution - The rise (and potential fall) of the dating app Tea, and what it says about toxicity, accountability, and modern dating - The Wall Street Journal report that proves women are still doing everything—at home and at work - Fertility, family planning, and the radical idea of saying “one child is enough” - Burnout, boundaries, and why creators (and founders) must take breaks - Gwyneth Paltrow’s genius PR move with Astronomer and why everything is content—even your ex-husband’s scandal Whether you're building a brand, questioning your timeline, or just trying to stay sane in your 30s—this episode is for you. Become an HSR Angel in the Global HSR WhatsApp channel! – This episode is sponsored by: - Frate Returns - Tell them HSR sent you and learn more here - HSR Newsletter - Get 3 months free using ⁠this link⁠. ⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. ⁠Subscribe on Youtube⁠ ⸻ 💌Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. ⁠Subscribe here!⁠ ⸻ Follow Maggie here: Instagram: ⁠@maggiesellers⁠ TikTok: ⁠@maggiesellers_ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Maggie Sellers⁠ ShopMy: ⁠Maggie Sellers⁠ Amazon Storefront: ⁠maggiesellers⁠ ⸻ Follow Katie here: Instagram: ⁠@katiesellers_ ⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn: ⁠Katie Sellers⁠ ⸻ More from Hot Smart Rich: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, "Am I even doing this correctly, or do I even want to be doing this?" Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 0:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

• 1:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Finally, I have someone that will clap with me again.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Well, as the editor, I know how important it is.

• 1:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It is really good to ground yourself. Like, have you ever been stressed out and then you just take a minute of breath and breathing?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, breathing. I don't clap to myself. Katie Soler, I'm really hot for rich.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  So ready. We're back.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  We are back. I don't know if everyone can tell, but I am somewhat back because I'm still sick.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  So I thought we would start out with consumption habits as we always do, and mine is not cool because I just bought cold and flu this morning.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  That's needed.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Needed.

• 2:17Speaker 03

  You're really struggling today.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I think the last most expensive thing that I bought, I'm actually going to bring it back to Air One. I, after eating in Europe for three weeks, realized just how expensive Air One is.

• 2:30Speaker 03

  Oh, it's disgusting.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  I think we live in this illusion in this bubble when we're in LA that it's just the norm. It is not the norm.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  No, not the norm.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Uh, fifty dollars, you're telling me that a combo plate, delivery, bananas, and like a midday squares is? That is insane.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  So what are you returning?

• 2:48Speaker 02

  I'm not returning.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  Oh, I thought you said I'm going to return it to Air One.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  No, no, I'm just saying that's what I bought and it was fifty one dollars. So I'm saying that's the most expensive last thing that I bought. What about you?

• 2:58Speaker 03

  Uh, well, the Uber to get here from LAX.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Okay, PSA, if you are coming to LA, never fly in on a Sunday night at ten PM.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  No, no. I mean, for me, I'm like, ugh, either it's super early Monday morning and like, that's a grind, or Sunday night, like, from, I ordered the Uber the moment I stepped off the plane. By the time I got to the road, I waited thirty five minutes for the Uber, still.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  And it was like a hundred and fifty bucks.

• 3:24Speaker 03

  It was a hundred and nine dollars, which actually I was like, that's pretty decent for a black from LAX. So that's probably the last most expensive and the last thing that I purchased.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Um, we also have to talk about our new setup without things with the mics. Like, I'm not holding something.

• 3:40Speaker 03

  I know.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  If you're not watching this, we actually got built in mics now and we're going to try to go with that.

• 3:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Because the podcast is progressing, so.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  The podcast is not just progressing. The podcast is.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  You know what I always say? I'm no longer just surviving, I'm thriving.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  You're thriving.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  So the podcast is no longer just surviving, it's thriving. And, um, it's so interesting because I said this in this content brief that I did with Spotify, which was like, we started this podcast with iPhones. We also started it with those Rode mics that you can bring with you anywhere.

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  I will say the sound quality is so much better with a wired in mic.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  It is.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  And now that we have a producer that's doing video and audio, hi Christian. We have someone that can like watch the levels as we're going. Um, but it's so interesting because when you're starting something, you think it has to all be perfect. This is like six and a half months later.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  And we thought it was perfect.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  It's not embarrassing though.

• 4:33Speaker 03

  It's not embarrassing. Like you should be embarrassed by the first thing that you put out when you look back on it. And like, I'm not, but like I am kind of. But I mean, when you become the top three business podcast in the U S and then you chart at number forty four, like top podcast globally. Obviously we're doing something right.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  And we joke about this. We're like, we had high hopes.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  This is surpassing it.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  This is way surpassing it.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 03

  Like beyond. So how was Ibiza?

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, I'm that classic person that like, when I hadn't been to Ibiza, I would say Ibiza. And then when I had gone to Ibiza, I was like, Ibiza is amazing. And so Ibiza was actually incredible. This is the second year in a row I didn't go into a club. Like, I don't know if I'm lame.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  So you and I have had completely different Ibiza experiences because I went when I was twenty two years old. I was at Shwaya, I was at Pasha, I was like out partying with my college friends.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  I never went on a Euro trip after school.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  But I feel like Ibiza has turned into this, like if you seek it, it's this wellness kind of sanctuary for a lot of really high net worth. Really successful people. So it's funny when you're even landing into the airport, you just see like all the PJs lined up on the tarmac, which is hilarious. Um, we had such a unique crew that kind of all came together. We were staying at this compound called Sabina Ibiza, which essentially is built on circadian rhythms, which obviously we're super interested in.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Explain that, like in the newsletter, you said it's built on some sort of like energetic plane.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Um, it's built on these ley lines and so it's supposed to help with like meditation and manifestation.

• 6:16Speaker 03

  Got it.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  And then there's a lot of like old stories around the goddess of fertility and love. And so there's just a lot of like wellness mythical aspects to the island. But Sabina that we were staying at is essentially a compound that is extremely expensive to buy property on, but it's built on circadian rhythms. So like every single thing in the compound is supposed to be for like, you're waking up with the sun, you're going to bed. Obviously not because it's like a party island, but like even the light switches have on like a circadian rhythm sense. So it was amazing. We had the dopest crew of like really successful people, new people in their career. We had spent some time with this amazing family that I had met from London who just like brought such a different energy to the group.

• 6:56Speaker 03

  The Brits.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  The Brits. Like, I love the Brits. I was talking, they were asking me about the podcast and I was like, we talk about money and sex and they're like, great, everything that Brits don't talk about.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  I'm like aggressively watching Love Island UK right now. So like, I'm, I'm feeling British.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  But yeah, so Ibiza was amazing. There's also just like, it feels so nice to be home and wearing jeans and a sweater again.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  And just to take a beat for a second.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  There is no place like home.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't wait to be back. Um, I feel like there's also so much to talk about today, but I really want to start with beauty.

• 7:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Cause a lot has happened. So we put out this case study two weeks ago about Amy Cole shutting down frack.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Which isn't really like shutting down. It's just been like sold and operated by someone else, which I feel like is the same founder dilemma that someone like Omni Cole found themselves in.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  But I think in general, like we've seen a shift in the beauty space of just like how incredibly hard it is to operate businesses, specifically color cosmetics.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  And I thought it was really interesting today because it was announced that Mary Phillips is launching her makeup brand.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  And I actually, even amidst how incredibly hard it is to build a color cosmetics brand, think it will actually do really well. So for those of you that aren't familiar, there's this really famous makeup artist, Mary Phillips, and she is known for doing like Hailey Bieber and

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Uh, the Kardashians. So she's launching MPH Beauty, which is a range of makeup products across complexion, lip and brushes, it says. Do you think that meant blushes?

• 8:30Speaker 03

  No, probably brushes. Like if she's a makeup artist, it's like the applicator.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, complexion already, it's like shade range, so we'll talk about that. But it's launching as an exclusive at Sephora.com on August 15th, and then it's going to roll out to 650 retailer doors later this month. So. Mary Phillips is so iconic because do you know that makeup technique where you would do bronzer and your concealer underneath your foundation?

• 8:54Speaker 03

  Oh, yes.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  She came up with that.

• 8:56Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. I remember that being a huge thing like a year or two ago.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  I still do it though. Like I didn't do it today and I remember that podcast I did for Dear Media Podcast and I looked at it after and like my contour was so poorly blended and I was like the one day I didn't do the Mary Phillips technique.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  But so she calls it underpainting.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Um, and kind of like Jen Atkin, I do feel like she has a white space.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and she has credibility in this space and I think that's the other thing we hear time and time again is like if you have credibility regardless of where you're building, but especially in consumer, it does make a difference.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  Well, and I think the other thing that we talked about in our case study a few weeks ago was like color is so expensive to scale.

• 9:39Speaker 03

  So expensive.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Because of the shade extensions that you made. And so I think not that I know the ins and outs of how she will fundraise, but like she knows a lot of people. She does a lot of really successful people's makeup that I don't feel as though it will be as hard to raise money as it will be for other founders that don't have those connections necessarily. And I think like it's interesting because the time that we're at in the market is like there has been to our point, this like disenchantment of color cosmetics over the last while from strategics. And that's why there have been so many brands in the market that like haven't been able to move.

• 10:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  But like, I do believe that like that will eventually go away and there will be a runway and opportunity in the next, say like five to seven years where there will be an appetite for strategics to acquire.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  And if she's starting now, like hopefully she knows that it's like it's gonna take that five to seven year period, but the timing of the market feels right.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it feels right if you can get in now and build towards exiting. In like the five year timeline, or if you're Haley Beaver, like doing it much faster in three to four. But for every, you know, M and A, either it's hot or it's not, or right now, strategics are offloading like assets that aren't performing. I think it's, it is a great time to get in and a lot of what we're seeing is these like, you know, Summer Fridays or Merit, Makeup by Mario, Rare Beauty, which like back until last year, Business of Fashion was reporting like, these are all of the brands that are on the market to be acquired and literally not one of them has been acquired except for Rode.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. The interesting thing about all those businesses and business and beauty in general is like the hero product.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  It's like she has a method. It's like the Tracy Anderson method of working out. It's.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  It's not like abs. It's like Tracy Anderson method.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's like you have to get it all to use the Mary Phillips method and to get the face and the look and the vibe.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  I think that there still is room in beauty, but it does take a very specific founder. And I think we've also just seen like such a saturation in the beauty space because it has never been an easier time to start a brand. It's also never been a harder time to keep a brand alive.

• 11:49Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  And I think it's also like having this constant reinvention of yourself. Like we even find that as a, on a human level, you're constantly reinventing yourselves. Human makes, humans make mistakes. And so to have someone who just stays stagnant in the space and isn't evolving with the times is why I feel like we have seen a lot of brands that like haven't been able to keep up because they haven't continued to evolve, whether it's their packaging, whether it's like the way that they talk to their consumer, whether it's even like their formulas. And I think it's interesting. It's like, you know, I love freck so much.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  I know. You're obsessed.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Love the freckles.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  When I think about everything I've been taught about business, it's like, are you building a function? Or are you building a platform? And to me, they started with a function feature, right? It's like a feature. It's freckles. And I don't know if freck evolved into like a platform of a brand, even though that could have been their hero skew.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  But I think the way that Mary is already starting to build it feels more like to our point, like a platform versus a product.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. Like she's starting from the place of even building alongside a community.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  What do you think about her choosing Sephora over Ulta?

• 13:02Speaker 03

  I think that's 100% the right move. If you want to build a mastige type brand that you're going to have, like, one, the cachet of being in Sephora. And Sephora, like, as big as all of these behemoth, you know, retailers are and how difficult they can be at the end of the day, they also do do a good job of coming alongside brands and helping them grow and scale. But I think as a founder, you need to go in eyes wide open and be like, do I want a relationship that's going to be predictive with someone like Sephora where they tell me what I have to do and when I have to do it. And if that's not what you're looking to build, then like, maybe Sephora isn't for you. And then on the Ulta side of things, it's like, been described

• 13:47Speaker 03

  as that's the marketplace. Like, that's like, Amazon, where not like, anyone can get in, but it it has a little bit of a different connotation.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Wait, but I think that Ulta is actually like, really catching up right now. So I think they, I have a prediction that they're going to be like, the Mecca of supplements, because like, all of the announcements that have come out recently is like, so many supplement brands, and I think that could be their weight space. Like, not 100%, but I think if they do a similar playbook of Sephora, like, finding the early-stage brands that are growing and have the potential, and then help them actually like, grow as an exclusive.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  I actually think that Ulta could become the place where it's like, the Sephora of supplements.

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Or it goes back to your like, it's the Olive Young kind of thing, where it is more of a marketplace. And you can get beauty, you can get supplements, you can get whatever else they're going to go into. But, yeah, the big announcements of Ritual being offered in Ulta.

• 14:40Speaker 02

  And Serena Williams joining.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  And Serena Williams joining.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Makes so much sense, by the way, as somebody that worked at that intersection of celebrity and beauty brands.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  Because realistically, Serena will be so helpful when she is trying to sell on shelf at Ulta. It's a recognizable name. That is always the time when I tell founders, like, if you are going into retail, if you have been considering a celebrity face, like, that is always the time to really like, prioritize that. Because retailers love it, it's a recognizable face, there's so many options that like, having Serena be a part of that, I actually believe is the right move for Ritual. Do you use Ritual?

• 15:21Speaker 03

  No, I've been using Burden B.

• 15:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh, they do something similar?

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Well, they do like it on my, you know, second fertility journey. It's more for fertility.

• 15:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wow, that's the first one that I've heard you say, my second fertility journey.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the first one wasn't even really a journey.

• 15:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You just got pregnant on the first one. That's amazing. Which doesn't always happen.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 15:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No. Let's be honest, founders. Returns are a nightmare for business. If you're scaling a Shopify brand, you already know the costs I'm talking about. Sky-high refund rates, constant return fraud, and rising shipping costs that eat into your margins. And that's where Freight comes in. Freight is a returns platform built exclusively for Shopify brands. Already trusted by brands like Caraway and Monos to flip returns from a cost center into a growth lever. They're not just reducing returns, they're redesigning them completely. With instant and one-click exchanges that increase LTV, AI-powered fraud detection that screens worn items before they ship,

• 16:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  and peer-to-peer returns that eliminate unnecessary shipping trips, Freight's making returns feel profitable. One brand cut refunds by 21%, saving $900,000. And the brands using Freight retain more cash and convert more customers, period. So if you're ready to turn your returns into revenue, head to freight.com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you for an exclusive offer and white glove service. That's F-R-A-T-E dot com and tell them Hot Smart Rich sent you. Every ambitious woman has a secret weapon, so let yours be the Hot Smart Rich insights. It's how over 250,000 women are owning their worth in business, wealth, and life.

• 17:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Whether you're building a brand, making moves in your career, or wanting to get control over your finances, the Hot Smart Rich newsletter delivers the cultural context and consumer intel to keep you ahead. With only six months left in the year, it's time to make consumer trends, financial hacks, and HSR Insights your best friend instead of mindlessly scrolling on social media. We've built one of the most powerful communities of women at the intersection of consumer, capital, and culture. So join us with the paid version of our newsletter, free, for three months with the link in the show notes to claim your free offer.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  Okay, in other news, did you see that Ty Hany is now back?

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  What do you think?

• 17:49Speaker 03

  I'm so proud of her. I'm so proud of her because, and I distinctly remember this when I was working at Missouri. Emily Weiss was getting taken down. Ty Hany was being absolutely crucified in the press. And it's so funny because we talk a lot about being like a forward-facing founder. And at that time, the CEO, founder of Missouri, Nora, like made a definitive decision where she was like, I'm not being a forward-facing founder because of what is happening to these women. And she literally got rid of her social media.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 18:22Speaker 03

  And so to see a woman, regardless of like the internal, you know, dynamics of what actually happened in the company. I don't want to like belittle anyone's personal working experience, but like to see a woman who was crucified and torn down by the media in a way that a man never would have been, to not only start another business, try your best,

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Well, and doggy.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  And, yeah. And then become back in control of like the brand that started it all for you. I feel like that's a very powerful, like, return-to-self moment for her.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Well, and I think also just, did you watch the commercial of her as like, hi, I'm Ty Hany, and I'm 23 years old, and I just graduated from Parsons. And like, I'm starting Outdoor Voices to like bring movement to people. And then the commercial that just came out this morning started with her daughter being like, mommy, what is Outdoor Voices?

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  And to see a woman who's evolved from that period of time, that's now a mother.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  And like be able to bring that into the fold is just such a signal to women to like never give up. And I think it's interesting because there's so many ways I could take this. But overall, I'm super interested to see how this plays out in terms of like what her role and structure is. Because what I've read so far is that she's not the CEO. She's the owner, founder, and partner. I'm interested to see who she brings into that seat because that's a make or break kind of role.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  It is, and someone that she has to be super aligned with.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Don't you think though that this is the biggest reminder as to why like having a strong mission is so important when you're building a brand? Because she is doing the same mission 10 years later, which is like doing things. So she's coming back to that and like, I think that's why I'm cheering so hard for her and like, I really want it to be successful because you can just tell. Every single bone in her body wanted to build this company, not for the headline. It was like because she genuinely wanted to bring the love of movement back.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  And I remind myself of that with Hot Smart Rich so many times, it's so easy to like, completely just forget why you started or what you're doing. And when you face things, when people are mad at you or you ruffle feathers or you do the wrong thing, or you get distracted, or you see the competition, it's so easy to like, fall into that and spiral. And when you just remind yourself, like, this is why I'm doing this and I am maybe going to piss some people off. And like, it's not going to be for everybody. It's okay. And I think seeing this for me today was like, everything that I needed to see to remember why I'm doing what I'm doing, which is like to truly help women in business, like on the personal and on the professional side.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Because in that 10 years of tie from her starting Outdoor Voices, leaving in 2020, now coming back five years later, think about her evolution as a person.

• 21:18Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Who talks about that? We do.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. And her story as like a founder to where she is today, like that's the whole reason why Hot Smart Rich exists because.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  Born from the intensity of a night in the eternal city. Introducing Born in Roma Fragrances by Valentino. Feminine perfume Donna Born in Roma features juicy black currant, central jasmine, soft cashmerin, and warm vanilla. Masculine leaning but unisex Womo has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver, and mineral salt. Shop holiday gifts at Macy's.com.

• 22:26Speaker 05

  They're running a cover two defense. But you're running to get game day deals on Uber Eats. Keep everyone at tonight's watch party fed with deals from your go to restaurants. Or stock up with deals on your favorite snacks and groceries. Whatever the occasion, get game day deals on Uber Eats all season long. It's not football without food. Uber Eats, order now. Terms apply. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Women have been told for so long, like you can't be all of these things. Like if you're going to be the founder and the CEO in the CEO's seat, like only be that. And when you deviate from that, it's outside of the norm. People don't like that. And so I'm so proud that we're creating a space where, you know, if Hot Smart Rich was around 10 years ago, like maybe Ty Haney would have had a different experience listening to our show and like connecting with women who are going through the same thing.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Wait, can we talk about the fact of like, how many women are connecting in our WhatsApp channel?

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Like thousands.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  It's insane. Like people are self-selecting to do like working sessions online. They're putting a

• 23:35Speaker 03

  A directory together.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Directory together. Like it's so crazy to me because I feel like having created this space, it has nothing to do with me anymore. Like I, that's actually one of the things for everyone that's listening that is in the group chat, that this is not our first rodeo. We failed before on trying to create something like this.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  We did a Slack channel when we first started that was like

• 23:56Speaker 03

  2023, man.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  2023, when it was like trying to facilitate these conversations that were so forced. And then all it ended up being was like everybody direct messaging me.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  To be like, can I have your advice on this? And then that's not scalable, which is why I started doing content in the first place. And two, it didn't actually solve the problem of like building a community around women. And I think that is something that like you can't buy and women need. And this, nothing is more obvious than with that company. T.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Okay, well, we need to talk about this because I'm on a completely different algorithm, obviously. And like, I didn't even know what this was.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  So, okay, T is this app that has blown up because they ask users to upload a selfie and a photo of their ID.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Women then post photos of men, review them, ranging from like, bad dates to warnings to scams.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Other women can then add their experiences or react with like, red or green flag emojis. And then there's some things that are behind a paywall, uh, like background checks, which our MBA intern was actually in it and was watching it before this data leak happened, which is such an unfortunate situation.

• 25:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Here are my thoughts on it.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  And this is gonna be controversial.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  You can be toxic for somebody as much as they can be toxic for you, and they won't be toxic for somebody else.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  I a hundred percent agree.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  It took me so long to figure out that like, I was the problem in previous relationships sometimes because I was triggering for that person as much as they were triggering for me. And so, on the one hand, I can hold that, and then on the other hand, I have this other truth where it's like, women banding together and being able to share experiences, like, I love this trend on TikTok where it's like, if your husband is having his bachelor party in Nashville and like, his name is Kyle, like, he's doing X, Y, and Z, and they have literally found men that are about to get married and that are cheating on their fiance. So on the second hand, I hold the truth of like, women banding together and being able to like,

• 26:18Speaker 02

  build this community and help each other. I love it. So, I think with everything in life, like, it's all about the user's discretion. Like, choose your own adventure, and with something like this, I would always, maybe if I was single and I was on it, like, I would look at it with

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Not a hundred percent certainty.

• 26:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  People evolve, but I do think the timing of the data leak is just too coincidental.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  Way too coincidental.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Like it starts blowing up in the app store. It's climbing the charts and then all of a sudden like there's this data leak and like that's really gonna hurt the business.

• 26:55Speaker 03

  Totally.

• 26:56Speaker 02

  Would you ever use that if you were single?

• 26:58Speaker 03

  Oh, I feel like this, it kind of does remind me like I'm really dating myself here. Like I started using Facebook when I was sixteen years old. This was like early, early, early days of it coming online because we had an education email address. And this was back in the day when Facebook, and I'm thinking back to like the leaks that happened with Facebook, where it was like rating guys or rating girls or whatever. And that was like the big controversy that caused Facebook to actually like pop off in the beginning. So part of me with the data leak is like, are they trying to take a page out of like Facebook's page with like just causing attention to themselves?

• 27:40Speaker 03

  Um, but I mean, I totally agree with you. One person's adventure is not gonna be the other person's. And even from my experience of dating and marrying my husband ultimately, like we went on dates when we were twenty five. We didn't continue dating and we ended up.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Marrying each other.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  Marrying each other.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Um.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  But he wasn't toxic when he was twenty five.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  But it, I could have been like, oh, you know, like I just didn't wanna continue, whatever it is. Like I, obviously we had an experience where we didn't wanna continue seeing each other. So I think like,

• 28:15Speaker 03

  but yeah, then if it's someone who's predatory and is toxic and genuinely a bad person, you know, the women need to band together.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  But so I, I don't know. And I'm not in the place in my life where I. Need to or want to. So it's really kind of hard for me to answer that.

• 28:33Speaker 02

  It's so funny because it kind of reminds me of like Reddit and now these companies are paying for professional Redditors to like start community on their behalf. And I, I still don't know if that will be successful. It'll be interesting to track it. Like, can you really buy community? I don't know. Maybe if you have somebody and I can like name some, I actually really want to name some of the people that have just like been so amazing in this. Since I started HSR, but like Kayla, Nina.

• 28:59Speaker 03

  Lily.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Lily, Paige. Like I know these girls all by name, you know, because they have been unofficial HSR angels. Um, Brooke. Brooke. Like Brooke from Australia is literally hosting meetups. Like we are trying to find a world in which like we can actually engage this on a professional level because that is what these companies are trying to buy and fabricate. It is so hard to do that.

• 29:24Speaker 03

  We're looking for a sponsor, so.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  But I don't know if you can buy community, like.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  I don't think you can. Even if you're buying professional Redditors, like it would have to be someone who's so deeply passionate about what they're writing about. Because we say all the time, the consumer is smart and communities are smart. They know if it's not genuine.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  And they know if it's also like coming from a place of genuine interest or also being paid.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  The other thing, and I'll say this about Reddit is like, you can go onto someone's Reddit profile and see what else they're commenting on. And so what sub-reddits or whatever they are in. And you do get suspicious. Like if you're on it, like a, there's a hate Reddit thread or whatever. You can go in someone who's posting something nasty. If they're only posting something about that one person constantly all the time, it's like you're a troll who hates whoever. It's the same thing with community building. Like if you're only posting randomly like, oh my God, I love this and I love that. It's like, well, that's fake.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  It's interesting though, because I think more than anything, women need community digitally than they do physically. Because did you see that report? From the Wall Street Journal that women are falling behind in the workplace? Obviously, I said this on the last podcast episode and upon reflection, it can come across in the wrong way where I was like, if you're not going into the office, you're never going to be successful.

• 30:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  So true in your twenties. Like if you are not grinding your ass when you have no responsibilities, no kids, no husband, no mortgage, like that's on you. You know, you're choosing to have a different life. But I think where maybe I would self reflect and say, I would maybe change my opinion is like, related to this Wall Street Journal article where women are falling behind at work again because of all of the responsibilities they have outside of the work. They have them in the home.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  They're the

• 31:16Speaker 03

  And the more successful women get at work, the more they actually take on in their home.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Why?

• 31:21Speaker 03

  It's like a weird phenomenon that you would think that as earnings and career trajectory equal out between men and women as they're married, you would expect that the mental load and burden of the home becomes more equally shared. But what has actually happened is that as, as the women be get, become more successful, they actually take on more and the husband takes on less. And I think in self reflection, thinking about it is like, if you are a woman and you're in business mode and you're like a type A, high performing, it's like you have a to do list.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  I'm already doing things. I'm just gonna add it on and I'm gonna find a way to make it work. Like, it just becomes like

• 32:10Speaker 02

  A cycle.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  A cycle of, I know how to do this. I can do it maybe more efficiently. I don't need to, I'm making my own money. So I actually don't even need to ask you for your perspective if I'm just gonna pay for it. Um, but it is highly concerning that like, one, women are taking on more. They're not being, you know, equally sharing the burden with their partner. And then two, if you're falling behind in the workplace because of having kids and whatever, like

• 32:41Speaker 03

  I just don't want to be saying that in 2025.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting because for the first time, the US just reported that fertility rates are dropping and

• 32:49Speaker 03

  Not shocking.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Not shocking.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  A mom.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  So, women are having 1.6 children per woman on average in 2024. That is lower than the UN's projection for the world's overall rate, which is 2.25, as well as the figure for the US was 1.62 in its World Population Prospects Report for 2024. Not shocking when like women are falling up behind. It is so incredibly expensive to raise children, the mental load of raising children.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Why do you think people still do it?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Still have one or two?

• 33:24Speaker 02

  Still have children.

• 33:25Speaker 03

  Oh, still have children. Ooh, I mean, I feel like there

• 33:32Speaker 03

  is just part of like your human DNA of like procreating and continuing on. That's just like

• 33:42Speaker 03

  part of human biology. And I think, I'll take you and me as an example. When we were kids, you were desperately like constantly, I, you know, I'm gonna be a mom. I'm so excited to be a mom.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  I don't think I was like that at all. I was always like, I don't want kids.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  No, I was like, like, kids, kids, kids. Like when we were, you know, five, six, seven years old, it was like

• 34:03Speaker 03

  something that you talked about. And then you went through a period where you were like, I don't know if I want to. It's a lot of work. And now you've sort of come back the other way where you're really excited about it. So I think there's like part, partially it's human DNA. Like you do want to procreate to continue on. Um, and then too, like when you are intelligent and in a high earning household, like you do kind of have a responsibility to like continue to further the gene pool of people who are going to continue to think and act like you. Um, but I mean, I'll say for me in my personal experience, like we have one son. We've gone through like a journey of trying to conceive a second one

• 34:46Speaker 03

  with then a whole bunch of like family stuff that's happened in the midst of it where I've had a miscarriage. We've had my sister-in-law who passed away and

• 35:01Speaker 02

  And you had trouble getting pregnant.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  And like it was over a year and a half of trying to conceive. And then you're like, well, At what cost am I gonna continue adding this whole other layer of like mental load to your life when I have one beautiful child and he feels like enough? And so I don't know, I've like, I love my son, I love our family. If there was a second one, I would absolutely love it. But I feel like the average American woman who's like, life is fucking hard. And I, if it's not gonna come easily, I'm not working for it.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  But don't you like then like I think about our bond and I'm like, oh my God, like having a sibling is literally the biggest blessing of my entire life. Like I cannot imagine living my life or building a business without you. And there's no relationship like a sibling. I don't think that there is. And so I think it's interesting because that is such a selfless thing to say too, because it's actually not for you at that point. It's like for your kid.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  And I think about that a lot where I'm like, okay, well now my son would be four years old if I conceived today. That's a four year age difference. It's very different than a two year age difference being the same gender. And but then I've heard from a lot of people with big age differences where they're like, when you're an adult, like

• 36:22Speaker 02

  It all evens out.

• 36:23Speaker 03

  It all evens out and it's great and wonderful. And like, yeah, I do want that for him, but you do definitely have as the mom with the mental load and it's my body.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  I don't know how women do it. It's so miraculous what we put our bodies through and like

• 36:39Speaker 03

  It's a marathon every day.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  A marathon.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  And I'm still going to work. I'm still cleaning my house. I'm still keeping up social relationships. Maybe having sex with my husband if he's lucky.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Okay, with that, I think that we're done with today's episode, right?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Is there anything else that we wanted to cover? Okay, we were gonna wrap the episode and then Katie reminded me that we did have on the astronomer situation. Listen, I don't really want to comment too much on that because

• 37:13Speaker 03

  I want to comment on Gwyneth Paltrow.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  Same.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  But I'm trying to formulate my words and actually our friend Cherie, who was just on who wrote that article up in Forbes about like, just be careful about your content strategy of like, using someone else's pain. Like this poor wife, these poor kids. Like, I don't really want to comment on that dynamic. But I think so many people listening to this, like myself included, are so afraid of controversy.

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  And like, when has there ever been a controversy that like, hasn't skyrocketed? If played correctly, the right outcome for people? And so I think it's just so interesting to look at astronomer hiring Gwyneth Paltrow, who is the ex-wife of Chris Martin, who essentially called this couple out.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  To do an ad that had.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  As a spokesperson.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  As a spokesperson, while they were figuring out their new spokesperson. Like, this PR team is a genius.

• 38:03Speaker 03

  They deserve an award for it, truly. Like, it is.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  It reminds.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  So smart.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  It reminded me of the Peloton ad, where at the end of the Sex and the City movie, when Mr. Big gets a heart attack.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  On the Peloton. And then like, Peloton puts in an ad with him, like, talking about cardiovascular.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  That is the type of like, creative marketing that cuts through the noise.

• 38:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Do you think that Gwyneth Paltrow called Chris Martin and was like, I'm gonna do this. What do you think?

• 38:29Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 38:32Speaker 02

  I think, yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Maybe with the whole con- unconscious uncoupling, whatever she called it, decoupling. I feel like they have a good relationship, so I would think she probably did.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the type of like, example of co-parenting that we need to see in the news more is like, those funny types of things and like, the way that they are probably still really respectful of each other. And even if they didn't, don't you think that Chris Martin would have laughed?

• 38:57Speaker 03

  I would hope so. I mean, it's too good not to.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  That is the best end to that controversy that I feel was actually really sad on one hand.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Um.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  But it did like, bring levity and humor to a situation.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  That happens a lot.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  And it happens a lot.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Happens a lot. So I think it also is just a good reminder that it's like, we live in this world where everything is on a camera. You never know who's watching, down to the point where it's like. Even my consumer news that I gossiped about the most this week, like people have no idea where I'm seeing that information. Like this girl I know, Leah, I've met her maybe once. I loved the ad that she did for her company Filter Baby.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  She doesn't know that I, I didn't engage with it, but I was like, this deserves attention. I'm going to put this in my newsletter. So like thousands of people will see it. And she messaged me and I just responded to her and I was like, you never know who's watching. Post the content. Post the thing.

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  For good or for bad.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  And that, that reel, if you have not watched it on Instagram, is so good. I was watching it on the plane yesterday and I was like, this is gold.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  And by the way, had you seen it before I talked about it?

• 40:02Speaker 03

  No.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  No. And I think like, that's where we get so into these silos of like, what we're consuming, but that was literally Leah posting it to her story. I thought it was hilarious. Especially on the heels of like Alex Earl, Carl's Jr.'s Super Bowl commercial going live, which is, I wouldn't say overly sexual, but like definitely wearing a small bikini, definitely looking gorgeous.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  So to see a woman founded and ran brand do the same thing with a male sex single, sex symbol.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Brilliant. Deserves, deserves the attention.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  So I think, yeah, it's a good reminder that like, for better or for worse, people are watching. Post the content. And like, even if you're in your flop era, which to address, I am a huge proponent of creators taking off time. So the first time I went to Europe this summer, I was in like, constant like, curation mode, constantly taking photos, constantly thinking of like, how can I make my life content? And then I thought, when I was going back to Europe, I was going to do the same thing. And I had this epiphany on the plane, because when I used to work for the biggest music artists in the world, I was thinking about their strategy of how they don't burn out for years. And there is different cycles of their career. So like, they're in album making mode. So they're in the studio. They're not doing any PR, any press. They are focused on like,

• 41:20Speaker 02

  putting out amazing art and crafting it to the point where they're like, okay, now I'm going to go into album promotion mode. Or touring mode, where they're taking every single opportunity to stay relevant. They're doing like, meeting, reading mean tweets about myself. They're doing like, 10 of my favorite things with GQ. They're doing, vo, get ready with me. They're doing their own content and I do not think it's normal for creators to not take a break at all. And it's not like I didn't post like maybe twice or three times a week, but I just didn't make my entire life content, which is a very big con hypocri- uh, which is a very big hypocrisy to what I first said when I came back from Europe.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  But I've never felt so refreshed, so excited, so rejuvenated. And I think it is important to talk about where it's like, that was a really conscious choice for me where it was like, I'm just not going to engage on this. And now I'm back and I'm ready to like push out a bunch of content and I feel really good about it. But I think just being intentional and really thinking through like what you want out of that situation is really important for creators to do.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  And just anyone in general, like whether you're an operator, a founder, an executive, like a mom, everyone needs a break.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  Fully, especially when your whole life is business.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Like I look at some of these creators like Valeria and I'm like, how do you ever take a break?

• 42:38Speaker 03

  Well, she has a team of 18 people.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  But she's still the one starring in the campaign.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  I know. I think a lot of it when she's on vacation, like is repurposed content, which is a hack.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I want to leave everyone with like something to go check out, which is the Creator Method. I'm obsessed with everything that Valeria is doing. She is definitely someone I'm manifesting to get into this chair. So if anybody knows Valeria, how do I say her last name?

• 43:02Speaker 03

  Lipavetsky.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  Lipavetsky. Please slide into her DMs on my behalf. I would love to have her on the show.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, that's a good manifestation.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  All right. Thanks so much for tuning in, you guys, and see you next week. Love you.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Love you.

• 43:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board. So everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board, but then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent. is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 44:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

• 44:28Speaker 05

  They're running a cover-two defense. But you're running to get game day deals on Uber Eats. Keep everyone at tonight's watch party fed with deals from your go-to restaurants. Or stock up with deals on your favorite snacks and groceries. Whatever the occasion, get game day deals on Uber Eats all season long. It's not football without food. Uber Eats. Order now. Terms apply. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

• 44:59Speaker 06

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 45:27Speaker 07

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.