Endless Egg

Some Internet trends are temporary, but eggs are forever. Today, host Ben Brock Johnson serves up a story about a recipe that, according to the people of r/pickled, can't be beat, and producer Kalyani Saxena egg-splores online discourse around Korean mayak eggs, and why it matters which creators get credit for their popularity. Show notes: "Been a few years now. Figured I’d share my recipe." (r/pickling https://www.reddit.com/r/pickling/comments/1ruodw7/been_a_few_years_now_figured_id_share_my_recipe/) The eggs so addictive authorities want to change their name (The Sydney Morning Herald https://www.smh.com.au/traveller/inspiration/the-eggs-so-addictive-authorities-want-to-change-their-name-20250820-p5moge.html) How a South Korean comfort food went global (BBC https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200609-how-a-south-korean-comfort-food-went-global) "Marinade recipe" (@courtneylcook's TikTok) https://www.tiktok.com/@courtneylcook/video/7581968384460377357?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7572229796965860877 "we've officially lost the plot (@beefyboiii's TikTok) https://www.tiktok.com/@beefyboiiiii/video/7588590429864529182?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc @princess.paulai on Courtney Cook's mayak egg content (TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@princess.paulai/video/7589738414455475486?_r=1&amp%3B_t=ZP-95Ek0MHLcWV) This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and researched and co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited by Dave Shaw and Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Support for WBUR comes from the Quiet Tension Podcast. When Joe Missoula got the Celtics job, Steve Paliuka sat up until 1:00 in the morning typing him 25 things about leadership. Dr. Sharon Turbin asks what came first on the list. Listen closely wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Support for Endless Thread comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com.

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• 1:27Speaker 00

  Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

• 1:46Ben Brock Johnson?

  Kalyani Sikhsana, producer of the show Endless Thread, inside of which we are right now.

• 1:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:53Ben Brock Johnson?

  The show Endless Thread.

• 1:54Speaker 05

  We're inside, we're in the mainframe.

• 1:57Ben Brock Johnson?

  We're in the mainframe of Endless Thread.

• 1:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:00Ben Brock Johnson?

  And today, we're talking about one of the most recognizable-shaped items

• 2:07Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 2:07Ben Brock Johnson?

  of food. What's to say about it? Ovular?

• 2:12Speaker 05

  Ovular, yes, round.

• 2:14Ben Brock Johnson?

  Kind of bouncy?

• 2:15Speaker 05

  No, I would not describe. Depending on what stage we're talking about.

• 2:20Ben Brock Johnson?

  What state it's in?

• 2:21Speaker 05

  What state it's in.

• 2:22Ben Brock Johnson?

  Okay, we're talking about eggs. Are you an egg woman?

• 2:25Speaker 05

  I really do need to disclose that I'm not an egg lover.

• 2:28Ben Brock Johnson?

  Okay.

• 2:29Speaker 05

  But I'm not an egg hater. If an egg tastes too much like an egg, and some people who are listening to this are gonna know immediately what I'm talking about, it's done. Like, I'm not into it.

• 2:39Ben Brock Johnson?

  I understand that perspective. I don't share it, but I understand it.

• 2:44Ben Brock Johnson?

  So we got an email from a listener named Scott. Have you been following the U slash, as in user, HeavyTech86 Pickle Saga on r/pickling? This dude's pickled eggs and sausage recipe has taken off, and lots of folks are making it and posting. Might be a rabbit hole to investigate. Peace. Let's start with HeavyTech86. As near as I can tell, by creeping on his Reddit posts, his Reddit history, his username may give you a hint of this, HeavyTech, right? So he works in some level of like industrial work.

• 3:25Ben Brock Johnson?

  So I know he talks about concrete slurry in some of his posts. He makes something called cowboy candy with his hot peppers from his garden.

• 3:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  Which is, I believe, pickled peppers. So this is what HeavyTech86 is into. Just, you know, regular chill stuff about his life until you get to about a month ago from when we are taping this. And it's not actually that interesting. Like, it's not, when you see this post that went viral, it's not like, oh my God, of course, this went viral. So let me just, I'm gonna copy the post that went viral. I'll send it to you.

• 4:08Ben Brock Johnson?

  Okay.

• 4:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm sorry. I just opened it and I have to say that's not when I think of virality. I wouldn't have thought of this, but.

• 4:15Ben Brock Johnson?

  No, right?

• 4:16Speaker 05

  Doesn't, yeah. So if you want me to describe it, yeah. It's, it's like one of those really tall mason jars. There is a bunch of eggs in some sort of liquid. I'm presuming vinegar or some kind of brine. A bunch of like orangey carrot things and like a few peppers.

• 4:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  But there's sausage in there, too.

• 4:39Speaker 05

  Oh, I see the sausage now. I thought those were potatoes.

• 4:42Ben Brock Johnson?

  Slices of sausage. So we're talking about, we're talking about pickled sausage and eggs.

• 4:49Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 4:51Ben Brock Johnson?

  Which again, that's like doubly bold. That's a lot of animal protein inside of something that's not going to be cold necessarily. But what's crazy is when you look, I'm just like, look in the Pickling subreddit for a minute.

• 5:05Speaker 05

  I know.

• 5:07Ben Brock Johnson?

  Everybody is making it, dude.

• 5:09Speaker 05

  And they're still making it like this. We started talking about this weeks ago and people are still making it.

• 5:15Ben Brock Johnson?

  This is basically this, this is now a sausage and pickled eggs subreddit.

• 5:21Speaker 05

  It's a full takeover.

• 5:22Ben Brock Johnson?

  subreddit, right?

• 5:24Speaker 05

  It's not a hostile takeover, but it is a takeover. Everyone is making heavy tech's eggs.

• 5:30Ben Brock Johnson?

  Some of these jars actually look beautiful.

• 5:32Speaker 05

  I know. I was just looking at one that I was like, okay, Instagram.

• 5:36Ben Brock Johnson?

  Right?

• 5:36Speaker 05

  Beautiful. It's kind of art of its own thing.

• 5:39Ben Brock Johnson?

  It really is. And, and now of course, like the memes are popping up. Dad, why is my sister's name Rose? Because your mother loves roses. Thanks, Dad. No problem. Heavy tech. I don't know. It's just kind of fun and interesting how this, this one random dude's Heavy Tech 86, his pickled eggs recipe blew up. And now has like changed the face of the Pickling subreddit and everybody seems to be having a good, good old grand old time with it.

• 6:05Speaker 05

  Yeah. And what's interesting to me as well is like. For some people, it's all they can think about. I mean, our editor, Meg Cramer, when we were talking about this story, said she hasn't been able to stop thinking about these pickled eggs since we first got that listener email.

• 6:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  She hasn't even seen the nice pictures of the beautiful pickled eggs recipes.

• 6:23Speaker 05

  She just saw like the original picture and she couldn't stop thinking about it. And like, I can't say that that has been my experience, but I think that there's something really, I don't know, so much of the internet is so heavy and the algorithm often like really favors content that elicits either like strong anger or like mostly strong anger. And so it's kind of cool to see this subreddit be taken over by an idea for something delicious that everybody is enjoying, I'm assuming delicious, that everybody's enjoying and everybody's having fun with it. And I, I don't know, I think that's, that's kind of great.

• 7:00Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's, it's nice.

• 7:06Speaker 05

  Has, um, heavy tech responded or like come to rule their new kingdom? Like, where is heavy tech in this?

• 7:14Ben Brock Johnson?

  Heavy tech's around. Heavy tech's poking around. Um, but heavy tech's not, like, I think it went viral enough and heavy tech is like a working human who apparently has

• 7:25Speaker 05

  A benevolent ruler. Yeah, yeah.

• 7:25Ben Brock Johnson?

  kids.

• 7:27Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, he made his pickled eggs. He's, he's doing his thing. No big deal. I did reach out to him. I have not heard back.

• 7:32Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 7:33Ben Brock Johnson?

  And if I do, I will report back, but that's my story about pickled eggs. But you got a story about pickled eggs of some kind, right?

• 7:40Speaker 05

  I have a story about eggs in liquid. Does that qualify as pickling or braising? Find out after the break.

• 7:47Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, why not? Why not?

• 8:02Speaker 00

  Support for WBUR comes from the Quiet Tension Podcast. There's a part of high performance that drives you, shapes you, and pulls at you too. Rarely spoken, almost never examined. That's the Quiet Tension. Coming up, psychologist and executive coach Dr. Sharon Turbin with Steve Paliuka on what separates the leaders people follow from the ones they don't. Stay with us for a preview. Listen closely wherever you get your podcasts.

• 8:31Speaker 06

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• 9:03Speaker 05

  All right, we're back and we're ready to dive in to some more excellent content.

• 9:09Ben Brock Johnson?

  Nice.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  Okay, I promise that's my only egg-related pun for the rest of this episode.

• 9:16Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh, boy. Don't make promises you can't keep.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  I know, that's true. It's more just like a failure in creativity. That's all I've got. Excellent is all I've got.

• 9:26Ben Brock Johnson?

  That's just because you're a shell of your former self.

• 9:31Speaker 05

  That's good. That was fast, too. I'm proud of you for that one.

• 9:36Ben Brock Johnson?

  Thanks, man.

• 9:36Speaker 05

  Well, so your egg story...

• 9:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  I had to scramble a little bit, you know what I mean?

• 9:42Speaker 05

  Am I gonna be able to tell this story without laughing?

• 9:46Ben Brock Johnson?

  I don't want to make you crack.

• 9:48Speaker 05

  Oh, my God. All right, that is your last one.

• 9:56Speaker 05

  Okay, so your egg story came from Reddit. Mine comes from TikTok. And I have been seeing these particular eggs on TikTok for years. They are boiled eggs. They're marinated in soy sauce. And then there's some other ingredients in that little marinade. You've got green onions, sesame seeds, other onions. And then, once you marinate them in that little mixture, when you eat them over rice, they look really jammy and pretty scrumdlyumptious.

• 10:32Ben Brock Johnson?

  Nice.

• 10:32Speaker 05

  So people have referred to these eggs by different names on TikTok in the years that I've been seeing this. Jammy eggs, soy-marinated eggs, and that... Sort of naming thing is kind of at the crux of the story, which we'll get to that in a minute. But they've actually got a specific name. They're called uh Mayak Eggs and they're Korean marinated eggs. They're sometimes referred to as Korean drug eggs because they're so addictive. And you know, the origin of this dish is suspected to be from China, but many other Asian countries have their own version of marinated eggs. Japan has a soy marinated egg that is used in ramen and Taiwan and Vietnam also have their own version.

• 11:12Speaker 05

  So this is something that has been around on the internet for a while, but also like just in general culture for like hundreds of years. But the reason I wanted to talk about these eggs is that even though they've been showing up on my For You page for years, I noticed a pickup in um just like the volume of videos about these Mayak Eggs late last year and they started with videos from an influencer and content creator named Courtney Cook.

• 11:44Speaker 07

  Okay, these are some of my um marinated eggs. These are like the Korean Maya cakes. I need to figure out um how to pronounce that. I have some Japanese mayo. Oh my gosh, this is exactly what I need. Um and some french fried onions. This is so darn delicious.

• 12:04Speaker 05

  So Courtney is chomping on these eggs in the morning before for her breakfast. She she films a lot of videos of her, just like she takes a bite out of the top of the egg, puts a little bit of crunchy onions um and then sort of dives in. And um people, they love these videos from Courtney and they start making their own version of the Mayak Eggs. Only there's one problem. They're calling the eggs Courtney Cook's Eggs.

• 12:36Speaker 07

  We're making Courtney Cook's soy marinated eggs. Come with me to try Courtney's soy eggs.

• 12:41Speaker 06

  What are you eating?

• 12:42Speaker 07

  I'm eating marinated eggs, soy sauce marinated eggs with a little dollop of mayo dipped.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  And crispy onions.

• 12:52Ben Brock Johnson?

  Where who's this from?

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Courtney Cook.

• 12:58Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh, man. I mean, is that it's not it's probably not Courtney's fault necessarily. I'm not saying she's completely innocent either.

• 13:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, and and we're gonna get into some opinions because I I think it's kind of it is a little bit of a murky picture, but there was a lot of Asian American creators who were really unhappy about this because here they are seeing this egg. And yeah, like, it's been called different things online before, like jammy eggs, soy marinated eggs. But what's happening right now is that this recipe from their heritage is being attributed to a white creator. And like Courtney, this is her invention. This is her creation. Here's one creator who goes by the username at Kayla Wong Ton. She's responding to a video of a white woman who posted a video making the eggs with the text,

• 13:51Speaker 05

  quote, "So chronically online, I'm putting my hard boiled eggs in a soy sauce bath." And then the caption of that video says, quote, "In Courtney, we trust."

• 14:02Speaker 02

  What do you mean you're chronically online? So now you're making soy marinated eggs? As if like soy sauce and eggs is such a crazy combination to them. And then they're not even giving credit to like Asian people. They're giving credit to Courtney Cook, which I love Courtney Cook. Like, I always watch your videos, but just calling it her food? With the caption saying, "Thank you for sharing your delicious food with us." Oh, my God.

• 14:27Speaker 05

  And then here's one more clip I want to play a tick from a TikTok video by someone who goes by the username at Princess Pauli. And the problem I have with Courtney Cook also is that she kind of in comments and videos says that her food combinations are weird. And that's what she says over and over. Yet your most popular videos are all the ones of you eating Asian food.

• 14:49Speaker 05

  And you want to keep saying things are weird. There's another layer here too, that, you know, many Asian Americans who grew up in this country, grew up having their food made fun of, like,

• 15:01Ben Brock Johnson?

  Absolutely.

• 15:02Speaker 05

  Oh, that smells, oh, that stinks. I'm, I am well versed in what that experience is like. So to sort of see that food now being celebrated is, is great and is one thing, but I think that there's also a level of like, pain and frustration seeing that food now that it's being celebrated attributed to someone who isn't part of that community. I mean, it's just, it was not going over very well on TikTok. There are some creators who, who felt differently that, that, you know, this is, uh, this is just kind of how food recipes are online. People appreciate food from other cuisines and they share videos of them making that, that recipe from that cuisine. Uh, this is one more person from TikTok. Their username is at Beefy Boy.

• 15:46Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh, that's me. That's me.

• 15:52Speaker 05

  Except this creator identified themselves as a Korean who was raised in America.

• 15:56Ben Brock Johnson?

  Never mind. It's not me.

• 15:57Speaker 05

  No, it's not you. Sorry about that.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  Why else are we in America? I'm talking to everybody. Do we need to learn the deep history behind every single thing we eat? No, we'll, we'll drive ourselves crazy researching everything before we eat it. But let's have respect for one another. Let's have respect for one another. Why can't we do that?

• 16:22Speaker 05

  I have plenty of thoughts about this, but I, I wanted to give you a chance if there's something that you're thinking about here in all this.

• 16:31Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's this tricky thing where it's like, you want people to be able to explore the world and to do that in a way that like, they can feel safe doing that. And at the same time, you want people to educate themselves about the world that they're in. And, and in some ways, like, that's the first step of the process. I love cooking. I cook a lot of Asian food. I cook a lot of Mexican food.

• 16:59Ben Brock Johnson?

  I make dumplings. You know, like I do all those things. And I think over time, I've tried to be conscious of like where I'm learning about that stuff. And who I'm learning from. And in the beginning, I wasn't learning from, you know, I wasn't actually learning from the source. If that makes sense, I was learning from

• 17:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:17Ben Brock Johnson?

  these other places where I experienced it as a, you know, whatever, as a, you know, white dude living in Connecticut or whatever. You know what I mean? Like,

• 17:27Speaker 05

  You're right.

• 17:27Ben Brock Johnson?

  You're gonna start from a place of ignorance when you're exploring a culture that isn't yours. But hopefully, part of your process is like leaning more into that and acknowledging and understanding the culture better because I think that's better for all of us achieving understanding amongst each other.

• 17:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I, there's so many like interesting parts of this. I will say like I, I did reach out to Courtney Cook for comment and I did hear back. And her team said that Courtney really believes it's important to give credit, avoid presenting these dishes as her own creations, and to approach them with respect. Her team also acknowledged that food naturally moves between communities, particularly online, and that Courtney's intention is always to celebrate, amplify, and not take ownership of the cultures behind the food. So there's, that's her response.

• 18:21Speaker 05

  Here's what I think, and here's what I've sort of picked up from how people have responded. Like, I think that Courtney Cook is likely coming from that, that place of, you were talking about, right? Like she, she enjoys this food. She appreciates this food. She wants to share this food. And to a certain degree, like all of us, right? When we're trying recipes from other cultures, there is going to be a like, well, I don't know how to do this, but I'm gonna try it. And we all sort of adapt and cook recipes from other places all the time. But I think what makes this distinct and the issue at hand is who gets to benefit when something from another culture becomes popular? You know, who gets the props for making something delicious? Who gets those

• 19:05Speaker 05

  potential cooking book deals or the followers, right? Like,

• 19:10Speaker 05

  That is kind of, to me, where the line gets a little blurry around like, who is profiting and who gets to kind of reap the reward of a genuinely wonderful, delicious dish from a community of people?

• 19:32Speaker 05

  There's another dish that Courtney Cook sort of came under fire for talking about. It's called Korean Army Base Stew. She presented it as Army Base Stew. Some creators felt like she was erasing the history of that dish because, you know, erased the Korean War history that was part of the creation of that Korean Army Base Stew. And so now, when she posts videos about that particular dish, and I've seen in the comments of multiple of those videos, she has the same comment, you know, saying, "My goal is appreciation, not ownership. This dish has a very difficult history. You should seek out Korean cooks for authentic recipes and read the history of this dish to better understand its origins and significance."

• 20:17Speaker 05

  So she's like putting that comment under tons of videos about that same dish. And this is a question that I think about when I was researching this episode, which is, I think part of the problem here is the algorithm. Like, I think the algorithm is pushing videos that get lots of views. And I think the algorithm in general doesn't usually favor context. So like, even if Courtney Cook maybe left a comment of attribution on one of her other videos, maybe you get a video where she didn't. It raises a lot of questions for me about how does the issue of credit work on a platform where the algorithm is going to continue to push videos from big creators?

• 21:01Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, it's really, man, it's tough. It's one of those things. It's tough to tell. It's tough for me to tell if this is like an internet thing or a thing that's always existed. That's just getting sort of amplified, right? Because

• 21:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think it's both.

• 21:14Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, I think it's both, maybe. The creators that I feel like I've really come to follow closely, and I follow a lot of creators on YouTube who make food, like that is specifically how I use YouTube the most, is like repairs and food. They're pretty good at being like, either, either I'm like following like souped up recipes, who's like a Chinese woman who's making Chinese food, right? Or it's like somebody who's saying, I went and studied this and have, and now I'm showing it to you. As opposed to being like, I like these eggs. They're kind of tasty this way. I don't, I'm not sure what they're called. I think they're called this, but I'm not sure. And I like it this way.

• 21:59Ben Brock Johnson?

  Like that's, to me, there's like a difference in a level of like research that you're doing before you're going into the world with the thing.

• 22:08Speaker 05

  Right.

• 22:09Ben Brock Johnson?

  Which

• 22:10Speaker 05

  Like a level of responsibility.

• 22:11Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, which seems important for that kind of, you know, creation.

• 22:15Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I will say like what you were talking about with the, is this an internet issue? Or is this a like societal issue? I think obviously to me at least, they, they feel like intertwined. Because the question of like appropriation versus appreciation is age old. We're always thinking about it and we should always be interrogating that. And the same patterns that play out in society, I think are going to play out online. And the algorithm is just going to accelerate them. That's how I see it.

• 22:44Ben Brock Johnson?

  That sounds not excellent.

• 22:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was like, you thought we were just going to be talking about eggs? Sike. It's an episode about

• 22:53Speaker 05

  tough cultural issues.

• 22:55Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah.

• 22:56Speaker 05

  Cultural appropriations always lurking around the corner.

• 22:59Ben Brock Johnson?

  I just hope that people continue to like learn about other parts of the world and that they're like safe to do that. And also that they do it with respect and with an interest in like learning.

• 23:11Speaker 05

  Stay curious, stay hungry. I think that's the takeaway for this episode.

• 23:16Ben Brock Johnson?

  Kalyani Saksana, thank you very much for going down this egg rabbit hole with me. And

• 23:23Speaker 05

  Thanks for letting me explore.

• 23:26Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh, no.

• 23:27Speaker 05

  That just came to me.

• 23:31Ben Brock Johnson?

  Listeners, if you have a recipe that you love from another culture that you would like to send us, we would love to read it. If you have a folk recipe that you discovered in the Pickling subreddit that you would like to send us, please do. And also, if you have an egg pun that you want to toss our way.

• 23:54Speaker 05

  That we didn't get to.

• 23:56Ben Brock Johnson?

  If you want to egg toss it our way, you know what I'm saying?

• 23:58Speaker 05

  Oh, brother.

• 24:00Ben Brock Johnson?

  Come on. Don't be shy, because you know I'll be reading those, even if Koyani's not reading them and throwing them straight in the trash.

• 24:07Speaker 05

  No, I will be. I will be. I'll be groaning as I do it, but I will be seated every day.

• 24:12Ben Brock Johnson?

  You can send those to [email protected]. We look forward to reading them.

• 24:23Ben Brock Johnson?

  And one more thing before we go, Endless Eggers, we need your help. More than 3 billion people around the world use WhatsApp. So there's a good chance you're one of them. We want to hear from more of you about how you use it. Is it where you find your pickled eggs recipes? Or have you stumbled into any sort of unexpected WhatsApp communities? How has WhatsApp changed your life off of your phone? And how has it changed the way that you talk to your friends and your family and other people? You can email us, or even better, send us a voice memo to [email protected]. All right. That's all, yolks.

• 25:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  Endless Thread is a production of WBUR in Boston. This episode was produced by Grace Tatter, was co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena and Ben Brock Johnson. We also reported and brought the stories.

• 25:31Speaker 05

  It was edited by Meg Cramer and Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by our production manager, Paul Vaitkus.

• 25:38Ben Brock Johnson?

  The rest of our team is Amory Seaberton, Dean Russell, Emily Jankowski and our senior managing producer, Suma Tijoshi.

• 25:44Speaker 05

  Endless Thread is a podcast about the blurred lines between online communities and pickled versus braised eggs.

• 25:52Ben Brock Johnson?

  If you have an online mystery, an untold history, or another wild story from the internet, you know what to do. Again, email us at [email protected].

• 26:14Speaker 00

  Support for WBUR comes from the Quiet Tension Podcast with Dr. Sharon Cherben, psychologist, executive coach, and a close listener to what lives beneath high performance. Here she is with Steve Paliuka, who built Bain Capital and helped bring a championship back to Boston on the thing the best leaders do that most don't.

• 26:35Speaker 07

  The best leaders kind of give credit and take blame. When something goes wrong, they're the first ones to take responsibility for it. And they see the good in the other people on the team. They don't immediately try to deflect whatever problem there was, what went wrong. You miss the sales target on the salesperson, they reflect on themselves and what they could do better. Same thing, you know, what Joe Mazzulla does in basketball. If you see his press conferences and the Celtics don't play well, the first thing he says is, you know, I need to coach better. I made a mistake here. I made a mistake there. Not many coaches do that. But that's why the players, you know, love Joe, and that's why, another reason he's a great coach. So there are things like that that you learn.

• 27:16Speaker 07

  There are many, many more things like that I learned from people like Red Auerbach and my classmates from business school and sports and all the rest.

• 27:26Speaker 00

  And really, what an array of leaders, because leadership is both the same and different depending on the environment that you're in.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  Listen for more of the Quiet Tension wherever you get your podcasts.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  Streaming October 30th on Paramount Plus.

• 27:43Ben Brock Johnson?

  I'm Dexter Morgan. I've been killing killers for half my life. It gets to you. You're having a midlife crisis. I'm not ready for that. He's back. I'm older. I'm wiser. And sharper than ever. Things are gonna get But if I can't believe in myself, I can't believe in anything. Dexter Resurrection. New season October 30th on the Paramount Plus Premium Plan.

• 28:11Speaker 06

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