60 Glennon Doyle Melton: Overcoming Addictions and Courageous Vulnerablility

Glennon Doyle Melton of Momestary opens up with courageous vulnerability. The most personal fact is always the most universal She shares how she overcame addiction, maintains amazing relationships and gets deep with people in ways that simply intimidate many people. It's a powerful episode so make sure to listen to the very end. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 60 with Glennon Melton.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Hey, all you beautiful greats out there. Thanks so much for tuning in today on the School of Greatness. This little podcast that I created about a year ago that has taken off. And I'm so grateful and blessed that you are tuning in today because I have an amazing guest on who really opened up my heart during this interview. And her name is Glennon Melton, and she is a recovering bulimic and alcoholic. And for 20 years, she was lost to food and booze and bad love and drugs. And she suffered, and most importantly, her family suffered. And in this interview, we really kind of dive in and talk about some of the things that happened with addiction and people with addiction, how to really support people in that area,

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  and what to do if you are feeling addicted, and a lot of different things that we cover in this interview. And it's all about being courageous and being vulnerable. And we also talk about why so many sensitive people end up in a state of addiction. And a brilliant way to see people who are not being seen. I think a lot of people end up in addiction because they don't feel seen or acknowledged, or they don't feel like they have control. And then they create this sense of control to be seen. So Glennon has an incredible blog over at momastery.com. It's extremely popular, thousands and thousands of comments on all of her posts. And it's been an incredible site for people to go and connect and learn from.

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  So I encourage you guys to go check out that and also check out her book, Carry On Warrior. And it's a New York Times bestseller. It's an extremely interesting and valuable book. I think all of you should pick it up and I'll have all that in the show notes. But this is an incredible woman, incredible human being, and I'm extremely excited to introduce you to her on this interview on the School of Greatness. And let's go ahead and jump in and dive in with the lovely, talented, vulnerable, courageous, Glennon Melton.

• 2:42Lewis Howes?

  Thanks everyone again for coming on to the School of Greatness. I've got a new friend on who I'm very excited to introduce you guys to if you don't already know her. Her name is Glennon Melton and she is a New York Times bestselling author of a book called Carry On, Warrior: Thoughts on Life Unarmed. And I'm very excited to have you on here. How are you doing?

• 3:02Speaker 01

  I'm so good. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

• 3:06Lewis Howes?

  Of course. And we got introduced through mutual friend, Adam Braun, who's an amazing human being and I'm super glad that he connected us. And right when I checked out your site for the first time recently, I guess it was about a month or two ago, I watched your TEDx talk and it really hit me in the heart. And I really appreciate everything that you're creating in life and what you've, your entire journey and your willingness to be so open and vulnerable and share. So first one, I just acknowledge you for all that you've created in your life and what you're doing for so many people. I think it's amazing.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. I mean,

• 3:45Lewis Howes?

  My pleasure.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  That's amazing for me to hear. I'm really just, all I'm trying to do is to stay healthy and stay honest. And it's become, I guess, a whole, a whole large group of people who are trying to do the same.

• 3:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  So it has been really special.

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  Well, I think it's a little scary being honest and vulnerable. And, you know, I guess I'll speak for myself, you know, for 30 years, it was really challenging to be honest and vulnerable about things that I've been through in my life. And you are a recovering, I guess you'd say, bulimic and alcoholic, and someone who's been a part of addiction for many years of your life. Isn't that correct?

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, just all the things. I call myself a recovering everything. Um, the highlights were the, the alcoholism and the bulimia. Yeah, I actually became bulimic when I was eight years old.

• 4:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Which is, I know, and I, I have always spent my life being so ashamed of that. And then I, um, actually have learned from so many people that really started very early with eating disorders. It's just a epidemic. So, yeah, I, I was, I became bulimic when I was eight and, you know, as addictions do, they just kind of started morphing into other addictions from food to alcohol to heavy drug use. And then I didn't get sober until I was twenty five and I found out that I was pregnant with my son. And, um, yeah, then I just sort of, I, I wish I knew what happened that day because of course people ask me every day, like, what was it that finally got you sober? I don't know. At, at that day, I just kind of quit everything and then

• 5:23Speaker 01

  spent a few years just white knuckling it pretty much. And then I found myself with three kids, three little ones, um, at home and I just started panicking. I just started to feel like family life was just so brutally hard for me. And that kind of brought up a lot of feelings of shame. And so, you know, as most addicts know, that shame is the kiss of death for us. So, and I thought, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do to maintain, manage this life that I have and not put back into my hiding place, which is addiction. So usually what the best way to get out of your head is service. I knew that.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  So I started, I told my husband, okay, I'm just gonna, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna, I'm gonna save the world. So I'm gonna save the world. So I started applying to volunteer places in my little town. So I volun- I tried to volunteer at the homeless shelter and then at a nursing home and I kept getting rejected to volunteer. Yeah.

• 6:24Lewis Howes?

  Why did you get rejected?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  So, I know, right? So I, I would make it through the interview and they loved me, but then I'd get to the end and they asked, they had to ask if he's ever been arrested.

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  For this. And of course, I mean, it was my festive past. You know, things happened. And so I, you know, it was very hard to explain away to these people and they were so sweet that they couldn't let me volunteer there. So I thought, then I started feeling more ashamed.

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  I know, right? I couldn't even volunteer at a freaking nursing home. So then I thought, you know what? The only thing I can do, I'm, I can write. I'm good at writing. And then, oh, I remember right at that time, right when I was getting rejected from everywhere. The minister from my church, so at that time I was having some postpartum depression, because I just had a baby.

• 7:14Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  And the minister from my church asked me to tell my story on Sage at Church. I was like, sure, I'll do that. But the thing is, if he thought my story was just the postpartum depression, but I actually got up on Sage at Church and told my whole story from like beginning to end.

• 7:30Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I'll never forget his face. I was watching him with his like jaw drop down. And I just told my whole story and didn't leave anything out, you know, all of that medictions and, um, just everything, struggles in my marriage and how being a mother was just the most incredible thing I'd ever done, but also brutally hard for me and, um, and how I still struggled with not drinking and with not overeating. And, um, what happened was that after I did that, gave that speech for the first time, these people came up to me, tons of people came up to me after church, who I had known forever.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  But I swear it was like, it was like meeting them for the first time. Like, they just opened up. There were tears and, and lots of laughter. And they just told me things that I'd never known about them. And I'd known these people for a long time, but I had never really known them.

• 8:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Because I'd never really introduced the real me, right?

• 8:31Lewis Howes?

  Right. Well, you talk about, potentially because you talk about, you talk about these capes that you had on.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:36Lewis Howes?

  And, uh, these super, superhuman capes or the Superman capes that you had on that were protecting you, right?

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 8:43Lewis Howes?

  From showing your true self, from showing your true self to these individuals at your church or in your family, probably your friends. They probably, no one actually knew who you really were until that moment you started becoming naked, uh, emotionally. And what were those, what were those capes that you talk about?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Oh gosh, I mean, I think, I mean, I think your cape is anywhere that you go to protect your messy humanness, right? So, I mean, I think that, you know, perfectionism is a huge cape for people right now, and I think that snarkiness is definitely, you know, whenever you feel hurt and so you deflect it, or you run, or you numb. Um, for me, I mean, I've had a million cases, alcoholism, drug use, um, acting fine is a cape. I mean, just never going deep and revealing how you're really feeling or who you really are, um, you know, kind of living a surface existence, I think, can be a cape.

• 9:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I agree.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  And I, I, and I understand that because I really feel like people think that's a safe place to stay, you know, if we stay on the surface, we can't get hurt. But I also know that living on the surface is a very lonely place to be because, you know, the crazy thing is we think it's safe, so we just talk about surface issues, but all, everybody's surface issues are different. Everybody has different, you know, financial situations and lives in different towns and their kids do different things and so if we stay there, we feel lonely. But what I've found by going ten layers deeper with people is that the most personal stuff is always the most universal. So it's like the deeper you go, you're actually safer there.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Because everybody has different experiences, but our, you know, our loss and our love and our, um, triumph and our pain, that's all exactly the same. So when you go there with people, you find, you find yourself in everyone.

• 10:37Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting because I was gonna say that you're probably, you know, people probably relate to you more than you think. Everyone can relate to you in some way from you feeling ashamed, uh, growing up for, you know, you talk about in your video. That you were always kind of like this awkward kid and you always looked at the cool kids and you wanted to see, you know, be like them, but you weren't. And I think everyone's kind of experienced that, you know, even if they were a cool kid, they probably thought they were awkward, you know?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:04Lewis Howes?

  But you revealing that allows, it creates a safe place for everyone else to to join in the conversation and open up and kind of drop down their protective capes as well. So it's really interesting because you know, for me, this is like a whole new thing in the last year of like being so vulnerable and open like you never, I never like crossed my mind, right? You know, maybe

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  Maybe like certain moments when someone else was vulnerable. Okay. I'll open up and be vulnerable, but it wasn't like, let me just share with you everything that's ever happened to me or just everything that I've ever been ashamed of. Um, and I think, and I think it was hard for me to do that because I was, I never really dealt with it myself. I never really connected with myself and was okay with it. And I guess kind of accepted what I'd been through in my, my journey. And I think maybe that's why people never open up is because they never take responsibility or love themselves enough to be like, you know what? That was part of my journey in my life and I accept everything that's happened to me, whether I've, you know, addiction or rape or sexual abuse or uh, you know, any type of

• 12:11Lewis Howes?

  mental illness, whatever it may be that uh, people are just ashamed and they never fully take responsibility and say, at least it was part of my journey and I learned from it. And you talk about actually the brokenness, the nakedness, the sensitivity that you're born with. You said that it's turned out to be your greatest gifts, right?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, I, I did an interview recently where the person who interviewed me, I, I brought up my addiction and the person who interviewed me said, oh, you know, but that's in your past. So that's, that's behind you. Let's focus on the positives. And I was so upset about it. I was so mad and I couldn't figure out why I was so mad. I didn't say anything. But the next day, I realized that that I am so proud of being a recovering everything. Like it's, you know, that I only think we know what's the good stuff and the bad stuff. Like we think that bad stuff is to be ashamed of, but you know what? The beginning of any good life or any good spiritual journey comes when you are just at rock bottom.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Right? It just comes when you have to just kind of say uncle to life and ask for help. And that's what addiction did for me. It was like a forced uncle. You know, it kind of held me down and said, you've got to try this a different way. And so I'm so grateful for my, for all the mess in the past. Because, you know, I don't know, I just feel like it helps me relate to people and it makes me so grateful. I mean, I never thought that I would be a mother or a wife. Or I didn't even think I'd be vertical, honestly, to tell you the truth. I mean, I, every day I'm grateful now. And I don't think that people who, I, I'm not sure that people who haven't been through something rough feel that way every day.

• 13:58Lewis Howes?

  Right. So what was your, what was your dream growing up then?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  I know I wanted to be a teacher, um, which I sort of am now. Um, and I know I always wanted to be a mom, but I definitely lost that dream. Um, when I got lost addiction, I just felt like I wouldn't be able to be responsible for another life. Um, and you know what? I found this, my mom actually sent me this poem that I wrote in third grade. That was all about how to be a peacemaker, which I think is interesting. Um, so I don't know. Now I'm a peacemaker and a teacher and a mom. So I guess it all went well. There was a messy part in the middle.

• 14:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, a lot, a lot of mess. Now, did you ever feel like you weren't gonna make it out through the other side?

• 14:46Speaker 01

  Oh, totally. Yeah, absolutely. I remember crying on the floor and being sure that I would never make it up. I mean, addiction is an awful, hopeless place. I mean, you, you know, it's funny because sensitive souls, you know, we go there because it actually is a very effective hiding place, right? When you're, when you're, you know, lost in a world of food or alcohol or drugs, it's, it really is creating your own safe world. I mean, you don't have to deal with other people. You are completely invulnerable. Because nobody can touch you. Nobody relies on you. You don't have to show up to anything. You just create this own little drama in your own little world inside addiction. So it's a way of completely hiding from the world.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  Um, which is why so many sensitive people end up there. You know, because, God, I mean, it is hard to be a sensitive, vulnerable soul out in the world. It's really tough.

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  Because you get to feel every range of emotion. And sometimes that's scary, right?

• 15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like my therapist, we, we always laugh about anxiety because she's always trying to deal with my anxiety. And I'm like, you know what? Are you sure I'm not just paying attention? I feel like a lot of people should be anxious because of what's going on in the world. So, yeah, I think that, you know, sensitive people do have kind of a hyper-awareness of what's going on around them, which, channeled right, can make for an amazing life and career. I mean, right now, at Mom's Story, I have, we, women meet there, all, all, all different kinds of people meet there every day to talk about life and be real and have a safe place to go deep. And so, channeled right, sensitivity can be a really necessary life-giving thing.

• 16:33Lewis Howes?

  Now, why, uh, how were you able to go cold turkey on all your addictions at twenty-five?

• 16:39Speaker 01

  I have, I have no clue. I mean, one night I was, you know, all the drugs, all the drinking, um, you know, I was an alcoholic for ten years.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Um, all the food, smoking pack a day and then

• 16:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  That day was just cold turkey.

• 16:58Lewis Howes?

  That's incredible willpower.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  I know. I mean, I went, I don't know what it was. I mean, it definitely wasn't willpower because I have none. So it was some kind of crazy miracle. I, I mean, I just, I found myself on my bathroom floor, holding a pregnancy test, completely hungover, totally lost. I'd burned every bridge in my life because of addiction. My family had kind of had to distance themselves from me because of my life and I just, I called my sister, who is my best friend, and I said, I don't know what to do. Like, I just, help me. And she came and literally picked me up off the floor and took me to my first AA meeting. And I remember sitting there with those people and being like terrified and also really grateful because I could just tell that they were my people.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  And, um, and you know, my, my sister, we were reading the brochure with all the little warning signs that you might be an alcoholic if.

• 17:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  And of, of course, everyone was like, a triple dog, yes, right?

• 17:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  And so my sister turned to me and said, um, you know what? I don't know if A is gonna be enough for you. We might need triple A. And that was like the hope that this, we both, it was just this moment of humor that we really needed. And, um, she, we went, we made it through the meeting. She brought me home to my little townhouse apartment that I shared with two friends and she just sat, we sat on my bed and she stood up and just cleaned up my room, top to bottom. She picked up every, she threw away every booze bottle and just kind of picked up every piece of clothing and lovingly put her, put away everything in my life. And I always just think of it as the beginning. It was just the beginning for me. She just helped me clean it all up and

• 18:41Speaker 01

  um, I, you know, uh, since then, my whole life, all I do is say, just do the next right thing. Cause at that point, I couldn't even, one day at a time was terrifying to me. I couldn't even hear that. That was too long.

• 18:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  I just focused, I had signs all over the place. I just started just doing the next right thing. Um, and so that's what I did when I was You know, just on the ground with nothing. And that's what I do now that I have this big career. I still have signs all over the place to just say, just do the next right thing. And the magical thing is that if you just keep doing the next right thing, no matter how scary it is, all those next right things just add up to this really amazing life.

• 19:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. That's incredible. Now, at twenty-five, you said you'd burned pretty much every bridge with your family and friends. So what would you have done if you didn't come to that realization? Uh, and been able to go cold turkey? How, do you think you'd still be addicted to everything if, you know, your sister wasn't there for you? Or if someone wasn't there for you at some point? And why didn't anyone get through to you before then? When, you know, they kind of knew you had an addiction problem? How come it didn't work until that moment?

• 20:01Speaker 01

  I don't know. And I'm so sad for people who write to me. You know, people write to me all the time and say, I've got a sister, I've got a brother, I've got a mother who's addicted and I can't get through to them. And if I had an answer for that, I would give anything. I mean, I really would. I, addicts are my people and their families are my people. And I so wish that I had a good answer for that. I, I don't. I don't know what happened. I know that my parents tried to get through to me for not just years, decades before that. Um, I have an incredibly loving family and, you know, they tried everything and nothing worked. Um, I, I, I don't know. But, you know, when you ask that question, I do think, yeah, I, I still would have gotten sober.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  If my sister wouldn't have come, if my family wouldn't have been there, I still would have gotten sober. I remember the resolve that I had that day. Um, I think it was just the resolve that comes when you have tried everything else. And you just want something so bad. I mean, for some reason, I just really, I just really wanted that baby. And I could not believe that the universe was so good that it would offer something so perfect and beautiful to me, even in my state. It was like, it was like a freaking, it was like an amazing vote of confidence from the universe to me.

• 21:23Lewis Howes?

  To believe in.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I felt like if the universe was gonna believe in me in this way, then I'm gonna freaking show up for it.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  Now, if you wouldn't have gotten pregnant, would you be sober?

• 21:36Speaker 01

  God, I don't know. I imagine I would have made my way there eventually. I, I don't have any, I have no shame about any made a decision and, and no guilt. I, I, I know that what I'm doing right now is served by everything I went through before. So I don't know why the path was that way. Um, I just know that none of it's being wasted.

• 21:59Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  I'm using all of it, all of it, all the pain that I felt, um, during that time and the hopelessness I felt during that time. And the guilt that I had during that time, because I did have major guilt when I was living through it. I use it every day with the people I talk to and the people I write to. I mean, I can tap back into that in a hot second. And, um, and oh God, and I can, um, go there with people. And so, you know, I don't know what would have happened if things were different. I mean, I know that, you know, the, the man I'm married to right now is the man that, that was, it's his baby, the one I was pregnant with on the bathroom floor. Um, so we did end up getting married a few months later. Um, we're still married.

• 22:42Lewis Howes?

  What an incredible human being.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Oh, he is, he is. Yeah, he is.

• 22:49Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I can only imagine.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 22:51Lewis Howes?

  You know, wanting, wanting to be there for you and love you and support you and you, you know, I'm assuming you guys were together for a little bit before that moment. And he probably knew the struggles and the challenges that you were facing every day. And he probably wanted to support you to overcoming it and you weren't able to overcome it. And he was, and he was still with you.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:10Lewis Howes?

  It's incredible. Incredible human being.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Incredible. Yeah. And he's a truly, really great dad. And it was a total crapshoot for us to get married. I mean, a total crapshoot and it worked out. I mean, we still work, geez, we're far from perfect. We have our struggles, absolutely. I think marriage is incredibly difficult instead of you. But, um, but yeah, it's a pretty incredible story of just showing up all messy and imperfect and what can come out of it.

• 23:36Lewis Howes?

  Now, let me ask you this. Now.

• 23:40Lewis Howes?

  Again, he sounds incredible and amazing. And just kind of hearing you guys chat before we got in this interview, I was just like, wow, that's the type of relationship I want to have. And, um, but when does someone who's in a relationship could be, you know, intimate one or friendship or any type of relationship, business? When does someone who's in a relationship with someone who's so destructive or addictive that's causing harm to the situation that they're in, or that's not supporting the situation? When does that person, or does he or she never, uh, kind of let go of that relationship if it's not serving them? Or do they just stick it out and try to grind it out and do what it takes to make that person change or?

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Oh, no. I mean, first of all, there's no, I would hate to insult everyone in the world by suggesting that there's an easy or tidy answer to that question, because I know there's not. Um, but I do, I mean, I think the closest that anyone's come to answering that question where it made sense to me was someone that said that you, you do not have to cut off any relationship in your life. But you might have to separate yourself physically from a relationship, right? So you can still love someone, um, a whole lot and hold them really close to you spiritually and not have them in your physical life.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Okay, because we do have to, I mean, uh, look, obviously codependency and love are two very, very different things. And we cannot love addiction out of anybody. I mean, if, if that could have been done, my parents would have done it. And that is not what happens. And my parents tried interventions and everything and, um, you know, at the time when I got sober, none of those resulted in, in anything for me.

• 25:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Um, so, no, I, I, it's, it's so, I mean, the worst I see is when a parent is, is losing a child's addiction because those lines are so blurred, um, about how much you give up of yourself. But I've never, ever, um, advised anyone to try to stick with an addict until they change. It's just, you know, you can't, there, there does have to be an element of saving yourself. Um, and just holding a person close to you spiritually. And sometimes the only way you can continue loving someone is to cut them out of the physical life.

• 26:04Lewis Howes?

  So how do you, how do you deal with? You know, the guilt or the shame or the emotional trauma that may come from that, that that person from addiction may try to put on you. How do you, you know, when you love someone so dearly or they're a family member, and then that person kind of, let's say, abandons them.

• 26:26Lewis Howes?

  How do you deal with that feeling? If that person that you abandoned, you know, or let go of your near life in a physical way, starts attacking you, you start saying how you abandoned them or how you don't love them, et cetera, et cetera. How do you handle those emotions?

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, as a writer, first of all, words are incredibly important to me. So I would always switch abandon and never allow myself to use that word.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  Sure, well, I'm not saying it's actually what would happen, but if that's what the person perceived is happening.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Right, so I would switch that in my head. Like, if the person were saying to me, abandon, I would immediately switch it to my head, switch it to my head to, I'm loving you so much that I cannot support your self-destruction, right?

• 27:10Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, that's good, I like that.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Um, I, I, my first answer to that would be that what you have to do is not reinvent the wheel. What you have to do is get yourself to an Al-Anon meeting, because that is what those people do. Those people at Al-Anon meetings are experts.

• 27:26Lewis Howes?

  What's it called?

• 27:27Speaker 01

  It's called Al-Anon, it's like a, it's like an AA, but it's for people who love addicts.

• 27:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow, I've never heard of this.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  For anyone, oh, it's just, it's brilliant. It's, it's more, it's saved more lives than AA, probably. I mean, it's, it's an amazing group of people all over the world who get together and who, you know, share their wisdom on exactly what you just asked. So that, because for every addict, there's, you know, 10 people who are collateral advantage.

• 27:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  So those 10 people get to Al-Anon meetings and they learn there how to navigate exactly what they're talking about.

• 28:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow, this is fascinating. I didn't even know that was, that was out there.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's so important. It's a really, really important tool, because all those feelings are impossible to navigate by yourself.

• 28:17Lewis Howes?

  So, so you really, you change the language behind it first, and then you say second, go get some support from one of these Al-Anon meetings? Is that what it's called?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, Al-Anon, absolutely. And they're in every city, all over the place, yeah.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, so what if someone doesn't go there and they try to do it themselves?

• 28:37Speaker 01

  Well, they'll probably, it probably won't work. I mean, if anything I've learned in life is that nothing really works by yourself. I mean, it's not just recovery or, I mean, that's what I do is I create community for people so that when you I've learned, you know, life is not personal, right? Like the stuff that happens to us in life, we think we're, it's the first time it's ever happened to us and we have to invent how to respond to it and we have to do it all by ourselves. The thing is that life is, it happens to everybody, you know? I mean, I live in Naples now and so ninety percent of the people that live here are over eighty years old. So all of my friends are like eighty year old women and I am obsessed with them. They're my new favorite group of people.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  I have all, I go to Bingo, I actually went to Bingo, not ironically, like real Bingo. I mean, I love them because they are not, they're not hustling every minute anymore. They're comfortable in their own skin, they aren't trying to prove themselves to anybody anymore. They have this confidence and peace that I want and, you know, I said to one of them recently, now, when did you, when did, when did you figure it all out? Because she's this woman who just has it all figured out for sure. And she said, oh, honey, you never figure it all out, but you do start caring whatever you have to figure it all out. And I was like, that's amazing.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  But what they have taught me is that there is no problem that I have in my life as a woman or as a human being that so many people haven't navigated before me. So, you know, one of my favorite things to do is to gather wisdom from people who've been there before and to, you know, gather it all up and bring it into my life and then, and then after I work it out, pass it out. I mean, that's what you're doing, that's, that's what we can do, we can all just learn from each other. I don't think that you can fail if you just get humble enough to gather wisdom from other people.

• 30:38Lewis Howes?

  So what's the most valuable wisdom you've gathered from all the people you've connected with that you can share?

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Hmm, wow, God. Well, I think one of my favorite things that I'm really learning now is to be more of an and both person instead of an either or person. I think that, you know, it is so easy in this.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Place in wonderful place in time that we live in now, but in this time that's a lot about categories and soundbites and issues and what side are you on and you know, I don't know, I think it's it's a really hard place to live, always picking sides and um always labeling yourself with, you know, less than a hundred and forty characters, I do. But um I don't know, I mean, I live in this place where I'm like, I'm just adamant feminist and I'm also this like homemaking like nineteen fifties mom and I'm a person of like very, very deep faith and also I'm convinced half the time that there's no God and I have no

• 31:46Speaker 01

  idea what how I'm talking about and I, you know, I'm a lot of, I'm a person who fights for people's rights all over the the world and then I also like spend way too much of money on myself and I'm totally frivolous and you know, I think that I feel, I really feel comfortable there in that place of I'm just this big mixture of all of these things and I contradict myself all the time and I I'm often completely hypocritical and you know what, like that's the human being self and I think like we we I I just hear so many people constantly on the internet defending themselves just for being human, you know, I think if we stop defending ourselves just for for being for people accusing us of being

• 32:30Speaker 01

  human beings, we could like stop worrying about ninety five percent of the

• 32:33Lewis Howes?

  That's true, that is true.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  You know, you're a hypocrite. No, I'm not. No, of course we are, we all are, like, of course you're a human being or are are you're you're, you know, all of us, you're inconsistent, really, like sometimes like two o'clock, I believe something completely different than I believed at one thirty, you know?

• 32:50Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  So, um, yeah, I think we can just let go of all of that and just embrace being human with all of our contradictions and hypocrisies and it's what makes it interesting, you know?

• 33:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  So that and then, um, you know,

• 33:08Speaker 01

  I guess this idea of balance, you know, people are always asking me like, how do you balance it all? And I was in yoga class the other day and um, I'm always, I have, I run a horrible balance, I fall down a lot because of this line thing. And um, I have line disease, so it causes vertigo and, and so my, my yoga teacher is hilarious because she's always making fun of me for falling and she's trying to teach me that balance is opposing forces pushing equally on each other.

• 33:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  To keep um, an object standing up, right? So, it's so funny because when people talk about balance, I know they're talking about they don't want so much tension in their lives, like you feel tension from work, you feel tension from family, you feel tension from friends. Um, and so for me to shift my thinking from how do I get rid of all this tension? To feeling grateful that I have these strong forces holding me up, like work and faith and family and friends. Um, and just kind of feeling solid in the middle of those. It's really a helpful visual to me because tension is actually what creates balance.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  You don't have to avoid it and I've actually lived a tension-free life because addiction is a completely tension-free life.

• 34:24Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  No, nothing's pressing on you. There are no forces pressing on you because you've removed yourself from anyone who might need you. And so, you know, living a life of tension is, is sort of a great honor to me.

• 34:37Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Um, so I don't know, I mean, I just, I, I, I, I find it, the greatest wisdom that I'm trying to internalize right now is just this idea that I can just keep showing up as myself.

• 34:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  And I know that sounds simple, but it continuously blows my mind because at every, everything I do, whether it's this podcast or an essay I'm gonna write or speech I'm gonna do or a TV spot, I'm terrified. Terrified that I'm gonna say the wrong thing or not be good enough or, you know, that I'm gonna be exposed for the fraud that I am who actually knows nothing and um, and so instead of like waiting until I have it all to get out, I'm just, well, because I have no choice right now, I'm just showing up as I am. And it's just amazing to me, the miracles that are happening.

• 35:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  I mean, when you just show up before you're ready, like I just, I, I, I'm starting to learn the more of these amazing people like you and all these other people I get to meet now. I just, at some point in my life, I just believed that all of these people who were doing these awesome things had it all figured out. You know, they just, I don't know, they were just these people who were like, you know, super humans, but just um, didn't have any of the fear and insecurity and um, crap that the rest of us had in our lives. And so to meet people who are doing awesome things and realize that they're exactly the same as everybody else. They're just not waiting to be perfect till they show up to their lives.

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  It's just mind blowing to me. Um, so that's what I'm just trying to convince other people of, you know, my friends on my blog and but you know, the, the people who are changing the world are just the people who are showing up before they're ready.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  I, I think it's true. I mean, I talk about this in business with entrepreneurs all the time that people are paralyzed because they're so afraid of, you know, putting something out there if it's not perfect. If it doesn't look right and it's not ready. And that's why when I talk about um, you know, kind of building a business online or entrepreneurship, I always say sell something before you have the product even completed. Start selling, start selling and see if you can actually, anyone will buy what you want to sell and then create the product for those people. Uh, as opposed to spending six months developing something, making every little detail perfect and the logo and all the graphics perfect. To the point where it's going to take you longer than you expected, you're going to keep pushing it off because you're always going to want it to be perfect and you're never going to get to end up, I don't know, you ship anything.

• 37:05Lewis Howes?

  Um, so I would say just like, start selling now before, when it scares you the most, start doing it.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  And that's exactly what we're saying with life. Like you're doing it with business. And you're starting to do it in your personal life. I started with my personal life and it kind of turned into this business. But basically you're saying like, you just, you just get it, you get on with it. You sell it before it's perfect. Now that's being really vulnerable, right?

• 37:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Because, oh my God, somebody might notice that there's something wrong with my product. I can't have that. Well, yeah, you can. And for me, I'm saying. Don't perfect your product, don't perfect yourself before you show up.

• 37:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  Because if you wait till you're perfect, you will never show up because none of us were made to be perfect.

• 37:49Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  But it's just so interesting that that is the total parallel with what you're, you're saying about your product. It's what we're saying about life, the exact same thing, just show up, all messy and imperfect. And, and if, and if anybody notices, that's okay, because you know what happens when other people notice? When other people notice that you've shown up and you might be imperfect, it gives them permission to show up too.

• 38:13Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  They look at you and they think, oh my gosh, like if she can do it, if she's just up there. And, and I know that she's not gotten all figured out, then it gives, it's just a reciprocal effect. It gives people permission um to show up, you know. One of the things I, I found this amazing at my blog is that we, we have a whole nonprofit that's come out of the mom. Like it's come out of our community at Monastery, which gave away hundreds of thousands of dollars last year. I didn't start any of it, it's just been completely organic from the blog.

• 38:42Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  And what I've learned is that, this is what I think happened in the sentence. I think that we are a group of people who stopped trying to be perfect. And when you stop trying to be perfect, you finally realize that you actually do have enough energy and time to do good. And I think in that way, perfection and good are complete enemies. Because you could spend your whole life in this little world trying to improve and improve and improve and improve yourself. Never get started with what you're really supposed to do here, which is follow your dreams and serve other people, that's it. And, and, and you know what, it's too easy. It's too easy to spend your life in this little hole of self-improvement because it's just another hiding place.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  You don't ever have to get started, you don't ever have to put yourself out there because you're always waiting for your perfect.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So what's your vision now?

• 39:36Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do the next right thing.

• 39:37Lewis Howes?

  I love it.

• 39:40Speaker 01

  That's it. Every single day. When I'm ninety, they will ask me, what's your plan? And I will say, I'm just gonna do the next right thing. And I mean, for me, honestly, sometimes the next right thing is that I have to be really brave and get on stage. And just as often, the next right thing is that I'm gonna go for a walk on the beach from my house. Or that I'm gonna um drink a huge glass of water, or that I'm going to take a walk with my kids. Um, or that I'm gonna write an essay that I think needs to be written. But that's the way I avoid freaking out about any of it, is that all I'm gonna do is the next right thing forever.

• 40:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So you're not worried about five years or ten years or this or that?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Oh, good God. No. No, I mean, are you kidding with my life? Like, ten years ago, twenty years ago, I was on the floor. I would have never predicted, I would have never predicted any of this. So no, I mean, I do have people in my life who have wonderful business sense and um I have found that if I just keep showing up for my people online and I keep pouring my heart out and living as honestly and as openly as I can, that um the magic just keeps happening.

• 40:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So here's a question for you that I feel like we uh we relate on a certain level uh from our childhood. And uh where we both were, let's say, left out, or felt left out. Whether we were or not, that was our perception. So how do we create a world where no one is left out?

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Hmm. Oh, God, I love that. I just um wrote this essay about my kid's teacher who I went in for this, I okay, I actually went in to get tutored for math, I can't do my own kids' fifth grade math homework. So I went in for tutoring myself. I was too embarrassed.

• 41:26Lewis Howes?

  Don't worry, I'll be doing that too.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Okay, oh my gosh, this is awful. She said, yeah, sure, I'll tutor Chase. And I said, no, I'll tutor me. Um, so she told me, we were talking about that in classrooms, and I'm really, really concerned about that, about kids including each other. Probably just because of my past. But she told me that every single Friday afternoon, she asks the kids to write down the names of five kids they want to sit with the next week. And then she doesn't use it to make students hurt. She just uses it to study patterns and look for kids who are lonely, who are not being requested, or who are not making connections enough to request other kids. And she, and it's amazing, she's done it every single Friday since Columbine.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Because she watched that stuff and she thought, that tragedy, and she thought, you know what? When kids aren't seen, they find a way to get seen. And, you know, whether or not that's the stem of school violence or not, I know that's what my problem was. I felt uncomfortable and unseen. Um, and that took me down the road of addiction. But I just thought it was such a brilliant, small way to kind of go out of your way to see people who are not being seen. And I really think that if we could just, I don't think anybody has to change the big world. But I think if we could all just focus on the little world within our reach and look for people in our lives who are not being seen on a regular basis.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  You know, I think immediately of single moms, teachers, awkward kids. Whoever it is in your circle that's not, that are not being seen and just find a way to see them. And tell them that you see them and love on them in some way or another. I don't know, I just think it's going to take every single person in their little sphere of influence, living that way.

• 43:25Lewis Howes?

  I think that's a, definitely an inspiring story that just one teacher can do. And if we all did that, you know, what could we create? So I think that's some great, great insights. I appreciate that.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Well, we tell kids, I mean, we tell my kids now that one of my, one of the most shared essays I've ever written that's in my book is a letter, just a letter that I write, I read to my kids every night before the first day of school. And it's just about this kid named Adam who was in my second grade class. And he just was really, really different. And nobody talked to him. And people made fun of him. And I never made fun of him, but I also never stood up for him.

• 44:05Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  And I never asked him to be my friend. And I never did any of those things that I would have wished that I did. Um, and so I wrote to my kids about Adam and I talked to them about how when we send them to go to school, that we don't send them to be the best at anything. We don't care. We don't care. We do not care about straight A's. We don't care about perfect test scores. We don't care if they're the best at anything, but we do send them to school to practice being kind and brave. Because those are the two things that we care most that they are, kind and brave. And I just explained to Chase that in that letter and regularly, that that feeling that you get in your heart when you see someone hurting. But that feeling, the name of that feeling is compassion.

• 44:49Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  And what compassion is, is a signal to you to do something.

• 44:54Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  But it's not a waste. It's not a random feeling that is a signal to you to do something. And whether that something is that you go ask that kid to be your friend or you go talk to a teacher about how they're being treated or that you come home to us and talk to us about what's going on in class. It doesn't matter what you choose, but it is your duty to do something when that happens. Um, and I don't know, I just hope, I hope that my kids see school a little bit differently than I did, which is not, it's not a, you know, Lord of the Five situation. And it's not a place where you have to be the best. But it's just a place where you can practice being every person in your world as a guest and something to be treated with respect and love.

• 45:39Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, I think it's incredible. I mean, with the pressures that most children feel from parents of having to get good grades all the time, uh, not all parents, but it seems like most, that's what, you know, they want, get good grades and do well in school. I think it's amazing that you're coming from a different point of view of being kind and brave and have courage. And you kind of, I guess, reward, uh, your, your children off of that, which I, I think is amazing and so inspiring to hear, because I never even thought about that. And maybe when I have kids, maybe, you know, I would, but I've never thought about that because I don't have them right now. But I think that's amazing. And if I would have had

• 46:21Lewis Howes?

  that, you know, as opposed to get good grades and my siblings ahead of me were, you know, brilliant in school and I couldn't read or write or do really any subjects. I just had a horrible time comprehending anything and remembering anything. And I remember being in, going to a private middle school, boarding school in eighth grade and taking all these tests and getting a second grade reading level, you know, back and never being able to speak publicly or read aloud publicly, just being so shameful and embarrassed that I couldn't read in public when all my peers were just, you know, breezing through books and reading aloud perfectly, where I didn't know the simplest words. It was always shameful.

• 47:03Lewis Howes?

  But for me, what I learned to do was to connect with people on an emotional level. And, and your story, your TED Talk really inspired me. And I've been kind of on a journey this last year to really uncover everything about myself to everyone. I think it's amazing what you're creating for your family. And that's, it's very inspiring. And I hope a lot of people are listening to this and, and, you know, really think about that with their kids.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a question? Do you think that that, I mean, I'm amazed that you just said that because this is a conversation that's going on in my house right now. My little one came home, my middle child came home last week, sad tears, because, you know, the school had sent out the gifted letters to the kids who were gifted and she didn't get one. And, so this is an ongoing conversation with us. And I just, I, I, I find it, it's so amazing to me, but still, as evolved as we are, that we only value one type of giftedness in school. This, I mean, you know, do you think that your giftedness of making connections with other people, your emotional giftedness, can only be the result of not having that

• 48:19Speaker 01

  first school or school giftedness that the other kids had? Or do you think it's that you were born with?

• 48:24Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I think about this.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  It just wasn't valued?

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think about this a lot, actually. I think about some of the biggest leaders in the world, how they struggled so much in a lot of things early on. And it's part of the reason, part of the reason why they have been so connected and compassionate and loving and courageous is because of their pain. And I don't know, I think if I was talented in school, I probably would have been, you know, cockier and had a bigger ego than I already, than I already had and you know.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:54Lewis Howes?

  I think, I mean, I really, you know, here's the thing, in, in, in private school, I don't know if they do this in public school, but when I went into private boarding school in eighth grade and through high school, they give you on the, the grade report card, they ranked us. And so.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 49:09Lewis Howes?

  So I was all, I was always in the bottom four. You know, I knew how many students, I knew how many students were in the school. And I swear to you Glenn, that there was not a homework assignment or a test that I did not cheat on, all through high school.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 49:23Lewis Howes?

  It's the only way, it's the only way I passed.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  It was just survival skill.

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  It was the only, I had the most amazing vision. And I could see all around the room and all the, even the Scantron tests were my savior because I could see everything.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  And hide it. You know, I could look just at the corner of my eye and always like, and get it. And I was always able to connect with people about the homework and is, I literally should not have passed school. If there was someone watching me all the time, I would have flunked, uh, middle school and high school. Um, but for me, yeah, I don't think it would have been able to connect as well with people if I didn't have that kind of challenge, I guess, or difficulty. And it's one of the reasons I became so passionate about sports because I was just like, I want to become good at something. And sports became that outlet at school.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Wow. I just hope that there, I really hope and I'm want to be a part of it over the next few decades, that we can find a way to identify different types of giftedness in school. Because like I told my little girl who was so sad about not getting the letter, it is so appalling to me to suggest that some folks are gifted and others are not. We are all just gifted in different ways. The little one who didn't get her letter is, she is probably emotionally my smartest kid.

• 50:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  You know, she can, she can touch, she can feel other people's feelings and she can empathize more deeply than either of my other two. And she is actually what the world needs, right?

• 50:53Lewis Howes?

  She's probably extremely. Yeah, she's probably extremely intuitive and.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:57Lewis Howes?

  Compassionate, loving.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  And so, and not a gift, a gift just like book smarts are a gift. And, and honestly, I feel like the world needs people like that more, more than maybe, you know, the book smart people right now. We need those people. So, I don't know. I just hope that at some point, there will be a time when every kid gets a letter because there's all different kinds of giftedness identified in school.

• 51:18Lewis Howes?

  Well, I think it's, I think it's starting to shift with, uh, in the sports world for kids because I feel like everyone gets a ribbon, you know, for participation.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  Well, no, I don't, yeah. My, my husband's always like, oh my God, my husband played professional soccer. So, when he coaches and they all get trophies, he's pissed off about that. I don't, I don't think it's the same thing. I just don't think it's the same thing. I don't mean that everybody's awesome at everything.

• 51:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  I just mean that everybody has something inside of them that can be used as a gift to the world.

• 51:45Lewis Howes?

  I agree.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  I don't mean that everybody should win all the time. I think it's two different things, don't you?

• 51:49Lewis Howes?

  I agree. No, I agree. Yeah. But should be acknowledged for what they bring to the world.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:55Lewis Howes?

  Whether it's your smarts or whether it's, you've got something that you bring and, uh, be acknowledged for it as opposed to only a few people are acknowledged.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 52:04Lewis Howes?

  For one thing. Well, I love it and I could talk about this forever, but let me, uh, let me ask you two final questions. Um, what's your next right thing?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Oh, God. Um, okay. I personally, when I'm done with this interview, I'm going to take a walk and be so grateful. I'm just gonna be grateful because this is an amazing conversation.

• 52:29Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  And I feel like talking to someone who's so successful and so outwardly amazing, uh, just every time I talk to someone on this human level, it makes me less afraid of the next thing. Because, you know, Craig reminded me like for this interview, he's just a person for all these people. And he reminds me of that every single time I do anything. Um, and really, that's all you, all you have to do with life, right? Is just take life one person at a time.

• 52:56Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  So, I mean, this, I'm just gonna be grateful that this interview, um, made me a new friend and also made me greater.

• 53:04Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. And what's your definition of greatness?

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  I think my greatness is when I can sit in the stillness and be at peace with myself and my life. That is what I was unable to do for decades, and that's why I hid in addiction and perfectionism and all of the other isms. Right now, I am at a place where I can sit in stillness, which I do every day, and feel no shame, and not even a whole lot of desire for anything to be different. I just can feel peace. And that's my idea of greatness.

• 53:51Lewis Howes?

  I love it. And where can we connect with you online?

• 53:55Speaker 01

  You can find me at Monastery, it's like monastery, but mom, Monastery.com. Yeah, I live there, and I'm on Facebook at Monastery, and Glennon Melton on Twitter.

• 54:12Lewis Howes?

  Glennon, I acknowledge you for opening your heart, for opening my heart, for sharing your feminine grace and your wisdom, for the change you've made in yourself and with your family, and for the huge gift you are to this world. And I appreciate you so much for coming on, and I thank you for everything you do.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Oh, Lewis, thank you so much. It's been a really special afternoon for me, and I just can't wait to watch all the next great things that you do.

• 54:48Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming on, Glennon, I appreciate you.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Bye-bye.

• 55:09Lewis Howes?

  And there you guys have it. I hope you enjoyed this open conversation with Glennon. She's got a huge heart, and I'm so grateful that she was willing to share with me and all of you her thoughts on all of this. These topics and make sure to check out her blog momastery.com M-O-M-A-S-T-E-R-Y.com and I'll have all of her info over at the show notes at LewisHowes.com but yeah dive into her stuff it's really incredible and connect with her on Facebook and Twitter and everywhere else that you can because she's got great information and the community is so engaged it's really incredible to see what she's created and how many people she's supported so go ahead and check that out over at the show notes at

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  LewisHowes.com if you enjoyed this episode I would love it if you share it with your friends over on Twitter or Facebook or Google+ or post a picture of where you're listening to it on Instagram I'm getting updates every day from you guys who are posting pictures on Instagram of where you're listening to the show and it's so much fun to witness that and see people from all over the world and crazy environments listening to the School of Greatness so continue that and I appreciate it so much you guys mean the world to me and recently I've been a lot of listeners have come up to me in person on the streets and just said how much they appreciate the show so that means a lot to me if you ever see me out there in the world please say hi let me know what your favorite episode

• 56:36Lewis Howes?

  is and I love hearing from you guys so I'm always available on Twitter at Lewis Howes on Facebook slash Lewis Howes or Instagram Lewis Howes and love to see what you guys are up to and see what greatness you're creating in your own lives so thanks again everyone for tuning in today with Glenn and Melton and you guys know what time it is it's time to go out there and do something great