549 | Humble Things

Joshua and T. K. talk about some simple rules for a humble home, small tasks with large rewards, surprising things a minimalist might own, why clutter spreads throughout your home, and much more. Discussed in this episode: What is the cost of convenience? (0:41) Is there hidden value in doing the "menial" work we've been taught to pay someone else to do? (11:17) Right Here, Right Now: The How to Let Go Tour (39:58) What Would Joshua Own? (47:03) Listen to the full Maximal episode on Patreon: patreon.com/theminimalists http://patreon.com/theminimalists Detailed show notes: minimalists.com/podcast http://minimalists.com/podcast

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  This podcast has bad words.

• 0:39Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, the minimalists, I'm Joshua Fields Millburn, and here's something to chew on. Don't confuse convenience with freedom. TK Coleman, talk to me about the the cost of convenience.

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Well, there's a convenience has a now component and a later component. And there's nothing wrong with wanting convenience and you get to choose. But the question is, you want convenience now or you want convenience later? If you're willing to sacrifice some convenience now, you have it hard upfront. But then later on, you don't have to pay as much. That's financially, energetically, whatever it may be. But then if you demand all your convenience upfront, you may have a hard life. It reminds me of one of my buddies who was talking about healthy eating. And he was like, yeah, I know you don't want to spend the money. But if you got it, you might, you might want to spend it on unhealthy food. He says, because if you don't, you're going to spend it on the doctors later on. And I think there are just so many things like that in life where if you have a choice,

• 1:39Speaker 02

  it might be worth asking, you know, where might I benefit from sacrificing some conveniences now so I can have a little bit more ease or joy later on?

• 1:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I think about when Nick Ademas and I helped build that grocery co-op on the west side of Dayton, Ohio, where we grew up in and around Dayton. And in 2008, the last grocery store on the west side closed. And so something like 40% of the city's population lives on the west side. And now there were no more grocery stores. But you know what was there? Convenience stores. And so it was convenient to go buy Doritos or to buy Cheez-Its and Cheetos and Coca-Cola. And I think in a vacuum, there's nothing wrong with any one of those things in moderation. It's, we don't mistake it as a health food. We don't think it's great for us. We don't think it's nourishing.

• 2:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  We might think it's a little tasty. And even then, if you spend enough time away from it, it doesn't feel right to try it again, to eat Doritos after not having any ever. You're like, what is this? You ever watch those videos on YouTube where it's tribal people in Afghanistan and they introduce all these new foods to them? And sometimes they absolutely love it. It's like, here's a piece of cheesecake and I've never had cheesecake before. Wow, this is delicious and it's made from scratch. And then they give them like KFC or something or Doritos. And it's like, ew, people eat this? Like they put it on their tongue and they like kind of spit it out. And that's almost the taste of convenience is like, yeah, it's palatable.

• 3:15Joshua Fields Millburn?

  In fact, it's hyper palatable. But it feels to me that we've, we often do that with our lives as we make everything so yummy. That house is yummy and expensive, right? That car is yummy because it's so expensive. And all of these things are convenient. I don't want to bash on convenience. I want certain things to be convenient. And also, I wouldn't say I want things to be ever be inconvenient intentionally. I don't inject inconvenience into my life. But there is this sort of dichotomy between freedom and convenience. If we're always relying on, we're taking the friction out of everything. We lose traction. If we have one click purchases and I can get everything right here, right now from

• 4:00Joshua Fields Millburn?

  my device, it's like magic. I just click on a button and it shows up on my doorstep same day. That's convenient, but I'm in a way robbing myself of my freedom.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  That's right. I think about the idea of convenience stores, which I sometimes use due to a lack of planning or I just want the ease of not having to go into a grocery store, not having to go into a retail store. But when I, when I do go to a convenience store, I'm always paying more, right? The convenience comes with a cost. And I think when it comes to freedom, we can say that the two sides of the freedom coin is what you're free from and what you're free for. You know, to make the decision to not prioritize managing my time, to not prioritize health, to not prioritize exercise. I'm free from all those things you have to do. Oh, you have to go running? I'm free from that. You have to go for a walk and get sunlight? I'm free from that.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  You've got to think twice about what you're going to eat? I'm free from that. But you get to be free for something else. Free to go hiking without losing your breath. Free to run a marathon without feeling like you're going to die. Free to live an active life. Free to do all of these other things that you were willing to sacrifice for. And so we always got to think about freedom in terms of the old saying, it's not just the right to do whatever you want, but it's also the power to do what you ought. And so sometimes we want power in our lives and the way we accumulate that power, the way we accumulate that freedom is by saying, I'm going to sacrifice my right to do whatever I want for the sake of convenience and, you know, carry across a little bit so that I could be able to do something, be available to something higher.

• 5:37Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You're making me think of two quick stories about convenience. The first one is I was just on a plane this weekend and they offered us some food. And I was the person, only person in my vicinity that just opted out. And I just, they gave you, here are your options, right? Here's option A and option B. And I said, I'll just take option C. And they looked at me like, what are you talking about? I said, I'll just opt out. Opting out is also an option. And strangely, it was convenient. I didn't have to go through unwrapping anything. Sometimes opting out is the most convenient option, although it doesn't feel like it in the moment. It's not as enticing, it's not as delicious. And then last month, when I was in Missoula, Montana, Ryan and I were doing the final

• 6:19Joshua Fields Millburn?

  tour stop of the 10th anniversary tour of minimalism. And I was in the hotel and I was sneezing like crazy while I was there. I didn't think my allergies would be acting up. It was June and so I went down to the lobby and I wanted to see if they had any antihistamines. And they sure enough did, they had a package and it was this giant package with one pill in it.

• 6:46Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I said, how much is it? And she was like, oh, let me look. I'm not really sure. She said, it's probably too much. And I was like, okay. And she pulled up, it was $9 for one. I mean, I buy the bottles of 100 of these things for, I don't know, 20 bucks. But I was paying for what? The convenience. Now, I eventually negotiated it down to a much lower price and she was able to do that. That's one thing that's worth noting. Everything's negotiable. You'd be surprised, my friend Julian Smith taught me this back in 2011, when I was, well, I was just trying a bunch of stoical experiments. And two of them that he, he, I don't know, instilled in me. First was whenever you get on an elevator, face the other way from everyone else.

• 7:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Everyone's facing forward, just walk on and face the opposite direction.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  What?

• 7:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Make yourself a little bit uncomfortable and feel comfort within the discomfort. Adjust to the discomfort.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Have you ever stepped onto an elevator with me with all that black on and just looked at me? I would hit the next floor. Like, have a nice day, sir.

• 7:54Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I hit the button, the doors just shut. The other thing that he taught me though, was that everything is negotiable. And he said, try this, next time you're buying anything from anywhere, just ask for a 10% discount. And you'd be shocked how often that works, TK. You, I, you know how people at Starbucks have said, well, we don't have a 10% discount, but I can give you something. Maybe it's 20%, maybe it's 50% or how about this coffee's on me today? Just by asking, it's not even a hardcore negotiation. It's simply saying, hey, would you be willing to give me 10% off of that coffee today? And what are they going to say? The whole point is they say no.

• 8:38Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You anticipate them saying no and getting comfortable with them saying no. But then you're also shocked every time you get a yes because you're expecting a no.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Have you ever had anybody respond to you like by laughing or going, are you crazy?

• 8:51Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, yeah, I would laugh and like, ah, that's what I'm like, oh no, I was just wondering, can I get a, like, oh, actually I can't. Oh, that's fine. Don't worry about it. In fact, you know what? I'll leave you a really good tip. And, and doing that is also like this icebreaker because it breaks the pattern that we're in. Hey, how you doing? I'm fine, thanks. How are you? That's just a pattern, right? That's why I often say like, anything crazy happen in the store today? Because it makes them think like, wait. And you wouldn't believe how often you hear the store like, oh yeah, we had, I was at the grocery store right down the street the other day. I asked the lady at the restaurant, anything happen crazy today? She goes, you wouldn't believe this guy came in with no pants and he was trying to steal the fruit out of the refrigerator of, I'm like, wow.

• 9:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And now all of a sudden, like she's having this joyous conversation as opposed to, I'm fine, thanks. How are you doing today?

• 9:45Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It breaks the programming. I mean, that's what we're going to do today on the program.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Next time you get on the elevator with your all black on, face the people that are on it and go, has anything crazy happened today?

• 10:00Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Coming up on this episode, we're talking about some simple rules for a humble home. Small tasks with large rewards, surprising things a minimalist might own and much, much more. Plus, on page three, TK, we'll discover why clutter spreads throughout your entire home. Let's start with our callers. If you have a question for the show, join us 406-219-7839, or email a voice memo to [email protected], or Jeff just put together this really awesome widget. If you go to call.show/the-minimists, it's the easiest way to record a message for this show right now. Literally, you could do it on your phone, on your web browser, on your computer. You want to record a quick message for us? Maybe it's a listener tip.

• 10:45Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Maybe you have a question for us about minimalism and you're like, I don't really want to open my phone and spend 30 seconds doing the voice memo. You don't have to do any of that now. Call.show/the-minimists and just tap one button. It records it for you. It sends it to us and we will feature your voice on the show. Let us know if you're a Patreon subscriber so we can prioritize your message. Big thanks to our Patreon supporters. Your support keeps this podcast 100% advertisement free because sing along at home, y'all. Advertisements suck. Our first question today is from Justin.

• 11:21Speaker 03

  Hey there, minimalist. This is Justin. I'm not a Patreon member, but I'm in Missoula, Montana, and I wanted to thank you for answering my question at the recent screening you did here. My question today is on the impact of work. I was recently at Cafe Sumac and I was watching Ryan in the back wash dishes. And it got me thinking, when we're supposed to gain wealth, we're supposed to outsource all these menial labor chores. But I kind of wanted to wonder if still doing that kept us humble and wanted to ask you about your opinions on that. Thanks. Always appreciate your work.

• 11:55Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Hey, Justin, maybe if you joined our Patreon, Ryan wouldn't have to wash dishes. What do you think about that?

• 12:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  The funny thing is, he'd still be washing dishes, right? Because I think TK, he brings up a good point here about this sort of menial work, the things that humble us is maybe a way I would describe it. And so I think maybe there's a hidden value in that menial work. What do you think?

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it makes us human. I think work is a beautiful thing. And even when it sometimes feels ugly, it's very good for the soul. And by the way, it's possible sometimes to kind of forget why we do things or why we strive to do things. And in that forgetting, we adopt very unhealthy judgmental attitudes towards ourselves, or to the things, or to the people who do them. So for example, what's the point of when you are building a business, being able to outsource something like doing the dishes to someone else? It's because you are one person and you cannot achieve your full potential if you are trying to do all the things. Furthermore, it is not good for your restaurant or your customers that you do all the things because you're not equally good at all the things.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  There are some things that you're better than everyone else at, and you need to spend most of your time doing that, not just for your joy, but for the good of others. And there are some things that you're replaceable at, and it's better for everyone else if you can bring people in as soon as you can afford to, who can replace you on that. This is where the logic comes from of like, I need to, I can't be spending all my time doing dishes when I'm the only one on the team that can do the accounting, when I'm the only one on the team that actually needs to do the marketing. What happens is when you start to miss the spirit of it, you start to think, I'm too good to do the dishes. I don't want to do the dishes because it's not fun. Well, neither is the accounting. Neither is the marketing because that's going to be a pain in the neck too. But you need that help. But when you start to look at yourself as above it,

• 13:51Speaker 02

  or like, I stopped doing dishes 10 years ago and I'm never going back, you start to lose something. I think the best managers, the best business owners are always those people who optimize their time for doing what they're best at, but who can demonstrate when the time and the moment demands it, that willingness to say, the garbage needs to be taken out. I'm right here. I'm still a part of this team and I'm not too big to take out the garbage and do the dishes.

• 14:16Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It's not beneath me.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Meaning also, you're not beneath me.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 14:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And when I see Nicodemus back there washing the dishes, it's not beneath him. And he would never think that it was. I mean, I think about when we set up our first several tours, it was me and Nicodemus at a kitchen table, just going back and forth, making phone calls to different bookstores, yoga studios, coffee shops, restaurants, any place that would take us. We wanted to do a tour. And so it was all that we had was the two of us sort of working through this. Eventually, we brought Professor Sean on and Podcast Sean and other people. But at the time, that's what we had, right? Because it wasn't beneath, and it's still not beneath me. I remember when Malabamla was in here and we were setting up the everything tour a couple of years ago.

• 15:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I was like showing her how I would make the calls. I would call up the venues myself. And it's not beneath me, but you bring people on to help do the work. You're asking for help. Now, you're obviously paying for that help as well. But I think there's something else to this that is important. Remember the video we did last week on page three, the Talk Aboutable, where the guy was in his car and he was sort of just talking about, well, I was told that by everyone that I needed to act as if I needed to be a certain way. I need to outsource everything, outsource washing my car. And eventually I wondered, what am I making all this money for?

• 15:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So I could pay other people to wash my car? What if I just enjoy washing my car? What if I just enjoy doing the dishes? And the thing I read was from the Simple Newsletter, and it had something to do with my wife, who's the happiest person I know. And I think it's because she's learned to sort of enjoy her quote unquote chores. Not chores that I give her, but things that often feel like chores to your average person. She washes the dishes the same way, not with excitement and a manic franticness that, oh, this is the most amazing thing. But she also doesn't treat the most amazing things that way either. She kind of treats the dishes the same way she treats surfing or watering the garden.

• 16:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  They're all part of life. Wow, I get to do this. I don't have to do it. And I feel like that's where Ryan is. He doesn't feel like he, I have to do the dishes today. No, there's a lot of work that needs to be done and I get to be the person that does it. And I've known Nicodemus long enough to know that that's genuine. And yes, there are things that you will prefer to do. We all have preferences as a human being. But just because something is higher in your order of preferences doesn't mean the things that are more quote unquote menial are less valuable. In fact, in many respects, the so-called menial work, the work that humbles us, is in many ways much more valuable.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  That's right. You know how we have that meme of touch grass to represent the idea of periodically or ritualistically make contact with nature in order to retain that sense of humanity? I think in a similar way, we could say, you know, like, wash dishes, take out the garbage, vacuum the floors, sweep out the bathroom, clean the toilet. As a kind of ritualistic sort of thing, it can be useful. You don't have to write it on a calendar and say, once a month, I will do this particular thing to retain my humanity. No, that's all like legalistic and too serious. But you can just maintain a sense of, it is never wrong for me to do these things. And even if I'm part of a family where we all play our roles,

• 17:54Speaker 02

  and maybe this person does the laundry, and this person makes the bed, and this person has that responsibility, this is only because it's what we've agreed on. But if someone's sick, if someone needs some help, or if I've got some free time, there's nothing wrong with just taking over and helping someone out and remembering that all of the work is good. And it's all an expression of creativity, even if sometimes creativity is expressed in our capacity to take the mundane and imbue it with meaning.

• 18:25Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I heard Joe Budden recently say, there are two types of people, humble people and the people that are soon to be humbled.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 18:32Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And there's something magical about that because you're going to get humbled by something, and that's not a bad thing. In fact, it's remarkable. It shows you that you're not above anyone else. I could tell you a story recently. I was, I try to swim pretty much every day. I swim 30 laps. And usually I'm the fastest old man at the pool where I swim. I'm also the youngest old man. Like, most of the guys swimming there, and they're pretty good, but they're in their 60s or 70s quite often, or even 50s. And as a 45-year-old man, I get in there and I'm rather skilled at swimming now. I just do it every single day and I've built up that skill, right?

• 19:14Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so I'm never like competing against them. I just notice that my pattern tends to be at a faster pace than theirs. And the time I booked a lane for last week, there was, it was the tail end of the girls, high school girls' swimming team practice. And so there was one lane available right next to their swimming. And so I get in that lane while the girls next to me are swimming. And the girl next to me, she might as well have been Michael Phelps. It was the fastest I've ever seen anyone swim in human history, at least in my mind. And I'm swimming, I'm just going, all of a sudden this blur goes by me in the lane next to me.

• 19:56Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I'm like, what was that? It must be someone with fins on their hands and feet. Yeah, cuz that's a regular. And I look over and like, no, this is just one of the the high school girls who just smoked my boots. I said, nah, forget that, man. Like, you know what? I'm just gonna go all the way out, full sprint in the pool and I'm hustling. I don't stand a chance, man. I barely get across the half point line by the time she finishes the lap. And wow, I think I was pretty humble about it before, but talk about being humbled in that moment. And it wasn't a bad thing like, oh, I'm, I'm a terrible swimmer. No, it's recognizing

• 20:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  that there are levels to all of this. And some people are the best in the world at a thing. And maybe something else, she'd be like, I don't even know how to boil water to make spaghetti, right? But, but in that particular arena, she was one of the best I've ever seen. And it humbled me in a way that was just, it made me not think too highly of myself. And I see that with, with any of these things, the things that, that humble you in a way heal you, heal you emotionally, they can heal you mentally, they can put everything in a different perspective for you. And then, when I think about someone like Ryan, who's doing the dishes, or my wife,

• 21:19Joshua Fields Millburn?

  who is folding the laundry or watering the garden, these, the smallest tasks have the greatest rewards. I see that with Beck. She doesn't need anything. I see with Ryan, they don't need anything grandiose to be satisfied. I think they realize sort of just intrinsically that Ferrari is never going to do it for you. They don't need that to be happy. And some, and, and therefore, the humble existence is the happy existence in many respects. TK, I will say this, though, I know, it's not about being legalistic, but I think sometimes it does, it's helpful to have boundaries or rules, as long as we don't take them too

• 22:04Joshua Fields Millburn?

  seriously. And Justin, I know I didn't have this with me when we were up in Missoula, so I'd love to send you a copy of this for free. We just put out a print edition of Very, Very Simple. It's 12 tools for a simpler life and a simple home. It's 69 pages. It fits right in your back pocket or your purse. You can carry it around with you. And there are really 18 rules in here, although it says 12. There's a bonus rule, which is one of my favorites, the Wednesday rule, which I think really applies to a question like Justin. Because the Wednesday rule, actually, let me see if I can find it. I'll just read it to you really quickly. Because I think it's worth, it's worth reviewing here. Yeah, this is the bonus rule in the book. Oh, wait, we ain't done. I have a bonus tool for you. I've been using

• 22:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  this one more than any other rule lately, so I'd be remiss if I left it out. The Wednesday rule helps me make better decisions today. It applies to purchases, health, relationships, finances, commitments, and of course, material clutter. And it's very, very simple. I would say it applies to washing the dishes as well. Before you make a decision, simply ask yourself one question. Ooh, one question, TK. One question with TK.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  I need like, uh, some confetti. There's just.

• 23:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  He has the one, just the phrase, one question trademarked now. TK has a new show on YouTube, by the way. It's called One Question. You could check that out. But, uh, before you make a decision, simply ask yourself one question. Will I be delighted with the decision, with this decision next Wednesday? It doesn't have to just be a decision either. It could be a task. So it's that simple. Next Wednesday, when I'm looking back on my decision, will my future self be happy I bought those pants? Will my future self be satisfied that I ate those potato chips? Will my future self be glad I got frustrated with my daughter? Will my future self be grateful he wasted that money

• 23:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  on a lottery ticket? Will my future self be excited by that meeting I scheduled? Will my future self be thrilled that he didn't clean out the junk drawer? If the answer is yes, then it's probably a good decision. Yes, I'm relieved I purchased this new dress shirt for my job interview. Yes, I'm thankful I ordered the smoothie instead of the milkshake. Yes, I'm pleased I acknowledged my coworker's achievement. Yes, I'm grateful I invested my extra $100 in index funds. Yes, I'm overjoyed I scheduled a coffee date with my best friend. Yes, I'm pleased as punch that I cleared out that storage locker. Or yes, I'm really

• 24:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  glad that I spent time washing those dishes. They needed to be washed. And also, I wouldn't want them to pile up a week from now. I remember Nicodemus had a roommate when we were teens, and that roommate refused to wash dishes. And it just got to a point where he just started throwing out dishes, because he, he would not wash them, right? And I think there's some, some, this sense of dread. We build something up to be so big. And that's when, for me, rules like these 18 rules that are in this book, they, they help, not because they're didactic. Well, maybe they're a little didactic. They're not, they're not dogmatic.

• 25:25Joshua Fields Millburn?

  They're adjustable. They're not really rules. They're tools. And there is a way to use a hammer, but you can also turn it around and use it in a different way as well. And so sometimes, these tools or these rules that we set up for our home and for our lives, they're like setting up these boundaries and is a way to humble myself. Because every night, I still have to set that timer when I do the setting the stage rule with my family. And we spend 10 minutes just, well, putting away the things that we need to put away. And it's not sexy. It's not exciting. And yes, it humbles me every day. But it's also where I find great meaning and healing. And I wake up the next morning and the house is tidy and I'm not, I'm not living in chaos anymore.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  By the way, that's a great example you gave with the guy with the dishes of what we talked about earlier with convenience costing freedom. I mean, it got to the point where his convenience became just much more expensive. Didn't want to do the dishes. That's convenience. And I have to think about that. Then eventually, it piles up. And then, and then he goes to the next most convenient thing. Well, it's just more convenient to just throw it in the garbage. And that's gonna pile up and create some other issues, you know? So interesting example there.

• 26:35Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Sometimes the cost of convenience is freedom in a sense that it costs us money. Like, if I'm going to pay someone to wash my car every single day, then that's gonna be, that's gonna be really expensive, right? And in a way, a meaningful way, I'm actually parting with little freedom coupons. I call them dollars. But that's what it is when you think about it. It's like, how many units of freedom am I willing to give up? Because we exchange our time for money, at least most of us do, right? How many units of my freedom am I willing to give up for convenience? And sometimes the answer is, yeah, the coffee shop across the street, they can make me a cup of coffee, but it costs $6 at that coffee

• 27:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  shop. Hmm. Do I want to give up six freedom coupons for the convenience of having them make my coffee? And sometimes the answer is yes. But sometimes the answer is, no, I, I don't think that's the best use of this money.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  $5.40, by the way, cuz you get 10% off.

• 27:43Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, so it's $6.40 cuz I leave a tip. Dang, dang. I want to read something real quick before we move on to right here, right now. This was a short essay that I wrote about being offended last week. It's called Offense Taken. I just put this out in the Simple Newsletter, which you can subscribe to for free over at thementalists.com. All right, here we go. The smallest things tend to offend me. Just last week, someone I respect replied to my heartfelt text with a single word. Sure. Sure. Ouch. My imagination took over from

• 28:22Joshua Fields Millburn?

  there. But of course, my imagination is a terrible mind reader. Cut me off in traffic? You're so inconsiderate. Interrupted me mid-sentence? Why don't you respect me? Disagreed with my politics? You must be a self-righteous prick. Thankfully, I've learned not to trust my own indignation. Truth be told, I wasn't offended by you. I was offended by the story I invented about you.

• 28:58Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You don't have the power to provoke me unless I hand you the keys to my heart.

• 29:06Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Let's unpack that one, TK.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Okay, can I ask some questions here?

• 29:11Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Of course.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  All right. What, first, what is it about the word sure?

• 29:16Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So I wrote it in here, technically, the word that this person sent me was okay. But I, it didn't work as well in, in the essay form, so sure, worked better here. But there's something that's dismissive about okay, or especially if you just get the K. Now Savvy D is a Gen Z-er, so I think he's just really kind to me. He like uses the appropriate Gen X emojis with me. He like changes his laughing, crying emoji. Is that true or no?

• 29:46Speaker 04

  Oh, well, yeah, I love sending you especially the emoji with the cowboy hat. I love sending you that one. Or like the one with the sunglasses on, I think it's so funny, but um.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  So emoji question, when you guys get a thumbs up, does it feel like kinda weak or annoying? Would you rather get a heart or is it thumbs up like, okay?

• 30:05Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I think thumbs up is passive aggressive now, right?

• 30:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, like, if my dad sends me a thumbs up, I'm like, okay, I know what you mean by that. But every emoji has one or two, or maybe even three meanings, you know? Depending on who it's coming from.

• 30:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Right, so, so there's something about the, the generation from which the person is in, and also what you imagine their intent is going to be. And this is what I'm saying in this essay is my imagination took it from there. Like TK can give me a thumbs up and I, in fact, I'd sent you this yesterday because you jokingly, I sent you a text like, hey, man, make sure you bring this thing back to the studio. And you just thought of it like, okay. But he knew that this had just come out, right? And, and he just responds, okay. And the funny thing is, if he responds with that, I wouldn't think anything of it.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:52Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so it is contextual, but the truth is about this essay is I don't need to think about anything. I don't need, why not attribute the most positive framing to it? Like, oh yeah, that person was busy right now and they wanted to really get back to me right away. And so they, they did the quickest thing they could to acknowledge me and they just simply typed two letters, okay.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and in fairness, though, you, you do want to, and this is why we want to be skeptical even of our, our negative judgments. You do want to do the best you can to get an accurate interpretation of what the other person is trying to convey. And so you don't wanna, you don't wanna be too negative too quickly. You don't wanna be too positive too quickly. You wanna kind of stay in that open space where you're not landing too hard on any one side unnecessarily. I'm also curious if a different word was used, would it have changed things? Like, what if they had said for show?

• 31:42Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Would that have changed?

• 31:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, it would have. It would have been uncharacteristic of this person. But I, I would have liked that, yeah. Yeah, because it's playful. I think that's it, like, and, and so there's an etiquette, and I think Savvy D was, that's what you were kind of talking about here, is, do you remember, and Savvy won't remember this at all, but I don't mean to get political, this is not a political statement. I remember that when Al Gore went to like black churches, he would take on a black affect. And it felt, it felt disingenuous to a lot of people. I don't know that it was because he grew up in Tennessee. It may have not been at all. And then, of course, when Obama did it, he would get ridiculed the same way. And it was like, well, no, he was fluent in multiple dialects.

• 32:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I think we all are fluent in multiple dialects depending on context. Sometimes you can call it code switching, or it can simply be that I want to speak the way that people speak when I'm around those people. If you're around a bunch of sports fans, you're gonna use certain lingo that you're not going to use with a random person at the coffee shop across the street, unless you have more context around them. And even with the emojis, it's interesting because the laughing, crying emoji, no one Savvy D's age sends that. They just send the tears emoji, which it means laughing, crying now. And so you have to pick up these subtleties, or you could just opt out of the whole thing and say, well, I'm a boomer now. It doesn't really matter. That, I think maybe there's something endearing to that as well.

• 33:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  There, I, I saw this one where, uh, it was a screenshot where, um, the daughter sent something to her dad. And he said, I just wanted you to know that grandpa died in his sleep last night. And he, he sent three of the skull emojis.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Oh my God, wait, this is real?

• 33:32Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You send a skull emoji because you're, you laugh so hard, you died, right?

• 33:36Speaker 04

  You dead.

• 33:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, I'm dead, like, but like, he didn't know. And so like, he probably just typed in the word died and the skull emoji popped up. And he was like, oh, that's what I need to, to send with this. And there was no sarcasm behind it, but you can imagine the communication confusion that might cause.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  That's amazing because I don't know why I was invented, but it didn't always, I don't think it was always used that way.

• 33:58Joshua Fields Millburn?

  No, not at all, no.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  So he used the proper emoji for death. I'm dying laughing. That's funny. Okay, how about this? I don't, I, I don't, we don't have to go into what was said.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  But what if sure was meant in the exact negative way you assumed, like dismissive, dismissive or whatever?

• 34:22Speaker 02

  What power does that have? And what I mean is this, if, if you say something to someone, you, you either need a, an action-based response or you don't. Right, so I speak my words to you, maybe giving you critical feedback, maybe making a request. And either you agree to behave in the way that I'm hoping for, or you don't. If you do, you might speak in a way that's like not very enthusiastic, but if you do it, like, you know, I got what I needed. And if you don't agree, I mean, does it matter if you say it, you know, exuberantly? No, like, I mean, if I say, hey, man, wanna get together for coffee? And you're like, no.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  All right, that was, that was positive, but I didn't get what I want out of this transaction.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  What do I say, you wanna go for coffee? You go, sure.

• 35:15Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You remind me of this meme that I saw recently where he's like, I have, this guy said, I have a way to get out of any conversation you wanna get out of. And so I'll tell you, like, you, you start some sort of conversation and I'll, I'll get out of it. Go ahead.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Okay, man. Hey, remember, uh, we're getting together for lunch today at one o'clock.

• 35:30Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Oh, mad boring, but I really appreciate it, man. It's mad boring.

• 35:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  That's what it felt like to me. Even, even though you know there are some times, well, TK is probably not playing with this. He's always interesting, but everyone else, I know that I've said some people are just like mad boring. And there's a piece of me that actually kind of wishes, like, there's someone like, like Ryan, who I trust enough, uh, who he, I've known him for 35 years. I think he could say that to me, we'd laugh about it. But if the barista at the coffee shop across the street, if I was telling them some story and they're like, yeah, mad boring.

• 36:13Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I would feel offended, but why would I feel offended? Well, because I handed you the keys to my heart. You provoked me because I handed you the keys to my heart. And so, um, if the person did mean like, sure, or maybe it was even like, whatever, super dismissive, right? Then it is what it is, right? Well, it really says something about my expectation. I expected them to answer in a way, or I expected a particular amount of decorum. Or I think the truth be told is I expected them to respond in a way that I might respond. But if you take that even further, you know what? I'm sure there are times where I've responded the same way. And I've come off as dismissive, or I've simply been dismissive.

• 36:56Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And so in my ugliest moments, I know I have been. Savvy?

• 36:59Speaker 04

  Can I share a perfect illustration from Key and Peele of this exact situation?

• 37:05Speaker 02

  I know exactly what you're talking about.

• 37:08Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Is this the text message one?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's perfect.

• 37:10Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Take it away.

• 37:13Speaker 05

  Been trying to reach out to you all day.

• 37:17Speaker 05

  Are we on for tonight?

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Jeez.

• 37:22Speaker 06

  What? You can't catch me? You can't catch me? I'm Lance Moore. Touchdown, bitch. What? Pause.

• 37:35Speaker 06

  Ah, shoot. Keegan's been texting me.

• 37:41Speaker 06

  Sorry, dude. Missed your texts. I assumed we'd meet at the bar. Whatever. I don't care.

• 37:56Speaker 05

  Sorry, dude. Missed your texts. I assumed we'd meet at the bar. Whatever. I don't care. Whatever. I don't care. The fuck is his problem? Do you even want to hang out?

• 38:14Speaker 06

  Do you even wanna hang out? Oh, that's considerate.

• 38:19Speaker 06

  Like I said, whatever.

• 38:21Speaker 05

  Like I said, whatever? Fuck this guy. Jesus, you-

• 38:26Speaker 06

  Are fucking priceless.

• 38:28Speaker 05

  Ah. You're the one who's fucking priceless? This- This motherfucker right here. Oh, he wants to- Okay. Mm-hmm.

• 38:43Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 38:45Speaker 05

  You wanna go-

• 38:46Speaker 06

  Right now? Hmm.

• 38:49Speaker 06

  Guess I could do that.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  Okay. Okay, let's go? He said, "Okay." Okay, let's go? All right, you know what? You know what? You wanna really-

• 39:00Speaker 06

  Do this now?

• 39:01Speaker 05

  Keegan, you nut. You're not putting me out. Fuck, yeah, let's do it? Oh, you fucking asshole! First-

• 39:10Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You got the point.

• 39:15Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, that's- But the funny thing is, like, when TK's texting me, I'm peel.

• 39:22Joshua Fields Millburn?

  TK could text me, "Sure," and I'd be like, "Oh, sure, he agrees with me." So it says something about my interpretation of the person, not even the person, but the way that I interpretate- I interpret, uh, the way that I interpret their, uh, response, the way that I, uh, interpret their, uh, reaction to me. It's all my imagination, which, as I said in the essay, my imagination is a terrible mind reader. We're about halfway through page one here. We still have an entire switchboard of callers to talk to. Also, a very interesting "What Would Josh Own?" segment coming up. TK is gonna turn the tables on me. But first, real quick, for right here, right now, here's one thing that's going on in the life of The Minimalists, or The Minimalists in this instance.

• 40:07Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So tickets are already going fast for the How to Let Go Tour. So if you're thinking about coming, now is the time to grab yours. I'll be in Seattle, Vancouver, and New York City this fall. TheMinimalists.com/tour to grab your tickets. TK, what do you wanna know about my first ever solo tour?

• 40:30Speaker 02

  Man, I just wanna see it. I wanna see it. I love one-man shows, you know? I love that from the world of theater. One of my favorite shows of all time is, uh, Lock on One of Blues. And I also love stand-up comedy. And I know you have affinity for those two things as well. So I'm looking forward to seeing how you put this together.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  I know it's not stand-up comedy. But-

• 40:57Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It's very funny.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I was looking for. Do you have any, any inspiration that, uh, for this show? Like, is there any one or anything that inspired you? I know you talked about how, like, you know, just kinda where you are in life, this is a good time to do it. But I know this isn't the first time in your life the idea of doing a one-man show has ever come to you. What's the inspiration?

• 41:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Well, there are a few things, uh, that inspire me to do this. First off, last year, on my birthday, we were doing a Sunday Symposium here in West Hollywood. And I'm at the venue, and I get this call from TK. And he's like, "Josh,

• 41:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  is it okay if I miss this Sunday Symposium? Or I will kill you." It's like, what are you using a voice modulator? I was responding with, "Sure."

• 41:50Joshua Fields Millburn?

  No, I mean, he was sick, and it was my birthday. And it's like, uh-oh, I don't have anything planned, right? And I'm like, "That's cool." Like, there's already, it's a sold-out show, everyone is here. Let me go ahead and, uh, make the best of it. Like, I had something planned with TK. We had this back-and-forth planned, but I didn't have anything planned by myself. So I just walked out, and I sat on the stool by myself. And I think my first words were, "Happy birthday." Actually, someone said that when I walked out. Someone from the crowd goes, "Happy birthday." And I was like, "Oh, wow, okay."

• 42:24Speaker 02

  It's like, happy at all?

• 42:25Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Here I am. And so I sit on the stool, and, um, an hour went by. And I didn't, it was like, nothing. It was an hour before I knew it. I didn't, I couldn't tell you what I said, but I remember. And people came up to me. I remember this one lady came after me, she goes, "How long did you rehearse that?"

• 42:48Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I was like, "What?" And it made me realize, like, oh, yeah, I don't do any solo shows like this. I mean, I have done a few, like, solo talks and, and, and things over the years. We've done 12 tours over the years. And this is the 13th tour from The Minimalists. So I'm starting out in those three cities, in Seattle, Vancouver, and New York City. We'll add more if these go well. Let me know in the comments where you'd like, um, the show to come next, the How to Let Go Tour. But the other inspiration, TK, is about a year, a year and a half ago, I started working on these fragments for this new book I was working on, called How to Let Go. And, um, as I was writing up these different things, and some of them have, I've used in different essays, or I've used different lines in different places, I realized it could still be a book.

• 43:33Joshua Fields Millburn?

  But this is a, this is a show. This is a live performance. This is interactive. There, there needs to be laughter here, because some of the most serious things that, that I talk about, we will get crushed by it if we can't laugh at these things. And for the longest time, our work has been about letting go of the stuff and decluttering. And this is about that, but it's also about letting go of everything else. And having a willingness to let go, finding that willingness to let go, finding the ability to let go of even the things that you feel like you couldn't let go of, the things that are, that are crushing you. And so I started taking the stories from that, that book. And I said, "I wanna try these with audiences." So we're gonna try these together, in person.

• 44:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And at the same time, I know Ryan's doing Sumac, and you've got this new show that you've been working on, The One Question Show. I said, "Oh, this is cool. I've been working on this book, but I don't think it's a book yet. I think it's a live, it's a live performance." And so I called my agent, and, uh, we talked about maybe doing a few of these as a, as a test. And so now we're doing that test. And I would love to meet everyone there. TheMinimalists.com/tour, if you want to join us. Now, TK, before we get to page two- Oh, by the way, I'm told that, I was talking to Nick Ademas this morning, and he might be at one of these shows with me as well. He might show up, and if he does, I will drag him on the stage. I'm not gonna tell you which one, so-

• 44:57Speaker 02

  I got one more question about this, you may enjoy answering.

• 44:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  You've always had, uh, a wingman or a partner. You and Nick Ademas started this off together. And, and, and I came in, Joe Pesci-style, Lethal Weapon, and, uh, and now I'm here. You've done, like, the COVID conversations, but those were conversations with other people. You did the How to Love with Bex. When was the last time you did anything by yourself?

• 45:23Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, it was, I mean, I've done a few, like, speaking gigs at different universities and stuff. But I've never done, other than some Sunday Symposiums, I think I've done two of those by myself. Maybe? Yeah, one or two. That one, and I think I did one other. But for the most part, yeah, this is, this is it. And so part of that is, like, it's really inconvenient, in a way. It's uncomfortable for me to do this on my own, because I prefer to share the spotlight, if I'm going to be in the spotlight at all. Uh, I don't yearn for the spotlight that way. And yet, there's something here that there is a, there's a communion. Remember, we talked to Peter Rollins about this? About the uniting around our shared lack? And that's what, what this is.

• 46:08Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Like, we all lack something. We might lack, we might lack the ability to let go. We might, uh, lack the perpetual joy that we're seeking. There are certain things that we, we lack. Uh, and that's why we try to compensate through the accumulation of stuff. And this felt to me like it was the appropriate time to, to try this out. And I don't know how it's going to go. I know the stuff I have prepared is phenomenal, but I want to work with you together, the audience, where there is a, I'm not gonna force anyone to participate, but, but part of it is a presentation, there's a visual component to it. That's also the reason that it didn't work as much as a book, is I didn't want it to be a picture book.

• 46:50Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And there's a lot of photos and, and different things we're gonna comment on. It's gonna be heavy, and there'll be a lot of laughter, and there'll probably be quite a few tears as well. And, um, yeah, I hope to join me for that. Before we move on to page two, let's do a "What Would Joshua Own?" question. WWJOTK Coleman Edition. TK, you wanted to turn the tables on me? Go for it.

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so when I was thinking about this question, "What Would Joshua Own?", the, the way I heard it was, "Would Joshua own this? Or would Joshua be willing to buy this?" So most of the questions that have come in have been like, "Hey, I'm looking for a new item in this category. You know, I'm looking for a new washer and dryer set. What do you use?" But I love to ask you some hypotheticals about certain things that, you know, make me wonder, "Would you buy this?" So my wife and I were walking along the beach and saw this beach house, and I was like, "I wonder if Josh would buy something like that if he had..." Now, I know you might say, "Well, no, I wouldn't buy that. I couldn't afford it." Or you might say, "Even if I could afford it, I'd rather spend my money on something else." But then I would just take it up a level and be like,

• 47:56Speaker 02

  "Okay, but what if you had so much money that this wasn't an object?" So I'm gonna throw a couple of these at you.

• 48:02Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Because even though I think I know what your answer's gonna be, you might surprise me, but more importantly, I wanna know what your logic is, 'cause I can't guess what that might be. First, if you had the money, I mean, you'd still be, like, immensely wealthy and could do all the charity in the world afterwards. Would you ever purchase, like, a, a major sports franchise? I know you're an NBA fan. You had the opportunity, like, buy the Lakers or something like that. Would you ever do that?

• 48:29Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I could see a scenario in which I would do that. I think about the guy who owns the Utah Jazz and he's from Utah. He's a Utah Jazz fan and you could tell, and he made several billion dollars. He ran a company called Qualtrics and he's young, so I think he's a few years younger than me. And he bought the Utah Jazz. And to me, that was so interesting. I could see a world in which I would start an NBA team in Dayton, Ohio. If that opportunity came to me and I had unlimited resources, yes, I would definitely do that. Because it feels like a great way to also contribute to a community, doing something that you're passionate about, even though I don't have a particular skillset around that. But I also recognize the burden that would be. I mean, that it fully engulfs your life as

• 49:14Joshua Fields Millburn?

  well. And in order to do something like that and not be miserable, you have to be really passionate about that.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Are there, have there ever been any hands-off sports franchise owners?

• 49:26Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Probably, yeah. I mean, you think even like the the Buss family wasn't super hands-on, especially, so the Buss, they owned the Lakers. And the oldest daughter, or the daughter who ran the company, Jeannie Buss, like she was pretty hands-on. But the other shareholders, I think, were pretty hands-off. I think there's a lot of, private equity isn't technically involved in a lot of these things, but there are certain investors that are, that are, that are hands-off. So you could do that, but, and maybe it's a good investment, but I, that wouldn't be the reason I would want to do something like that.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  Okay. We're gonna offend Professor Sean with this one, maybe. But would you buy a Rolex?

• 50:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  No.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 50:03Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I would buy a watch, though. So like, it, yeah, if I bought a watch, it'd probably be a Rolex. They're really well-made watches. Yeah.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Why would you buy a Rolex versus something that's nice and durable, but just much less expensive?

• 50:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, yeah. If you care about craftsmanship, yeah. There are probably several other reasons I wouldn't buy one is, I'm not trying to signal anything with it. In fact, maybe I'm even trying, you know, subconscious, I'm trying to signal the opposite. I don't need the luxury good, but I think they're, they're really well-made. I just don't, I don't wear watches, right? And so it wouldn't, it's like, would you buy the most expensive high heels? Like, well, no, I don't wear high heels either. And so I wouldn't buy the Rolex or the high heels. They're pretty much the same thing to me.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  All right, this next one, I'm predicting your answer is gonna be no, but it's a setup for the, the question that comes after. Would you buy a Rolls Royce?

• 50:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Hmm. Maybe.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Really?

• 51:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah. I mean, I think they're a work of art. I will say no, but I'll tell you why I wouldn't. I would spend the same amount of money on a vehicle. I'd buy a 1992 Range Rover Town and Country 4.6, and I'd probably spend $300,000 getting it restored, if I had infinite money.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Why is that?

• 51:31Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Because I think it's a work of art. Just like, I think a Rolls Royce is a work of art, but it's like, would you rather buy the Picasso or, or the Matisse painting? It's like, well, it's really about preference at that point, right? They're, they're both gonna be extraordinarily expensive. And if I'm gonna spend that much money on something, I might as well spend it on the thing that, the work of art that I really want. And I wouldn't buy a Range Rover, 1992 Range Rover right now, because it would just be a piece of junk. It would break down all the time. And I'm not willing to pay that much freedom for that level of inconvenience.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  One thing I love about the, the way you think on these matters, because my prediction was no, and I was wrong, is you, you have the ability to look at certain luxury items, items that are elevated and, and admire for their ability to signal status, and to say, not interested in the status symbol, probably wouldn't spend my money that way, but hey, here's something amazing and beautiful about that, that has nothing to do with being a status symbol. It's a work of art, and I can appreciate this aspect of it. Can I get one more in?

• 52:33Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Of course.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  A, like, 20, 30 million dollar dream home, like beach house, oceanfront, like mansion?

• 52:42Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I would not buy a beach house, but not for the reasons you think.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Okay, why not?

• 52:47Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I don't like sand.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  Really?

• 52:49Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I don't want sand being tracked all into my house all the time. It, to me, that, that level of inconvenience is not worth it. However.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Put it in the mountains or something like that?

• 52:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Sure. Yeah, I don't think I'd buy a huge, maybe the, the 20 million would be for the land or something, right? But I, I don't, I wouldn't buy an oversized house that is not practical or functional. I do like spaciousness, though. So I might buy something that has very large cathedral sort of ceilings, right? Or, I mean, I think about, the only exception I would make to the beach house thing was the house that Kanye bought in Malibu. But it's not because it was Kanye's house, or because it was in Malibu, or because it was on the beach. It was an Ondo house. And Ondo is like this famous Japanese architect, and just a brutalist minimalist architect. And I respect that.

• 53:40Joshua Fields Millburn?

  In fact, I would rather have that house in the mountains somewhere, or, it wouldn't have to be on the beach. I love a beach view, but I just don't want the sand all throughout my house.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  One more. You got, you got 20 million dollars, would you, would you, or however much money, would you spend 20 million dollars to make a movie?

• 53:57Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes.

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:00Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, if it required 20 million. I don't think it's about throwing the money out. If you look at, like, Terminator 1 had a much smaller budget than Terminator 2, but a lot of people think that it, in terms of art, it's a better piece of art because of the restraints or constraints that James Cameron had in that first film. He had to make the, the lighting real moody. And I'll even say that about both of our films. Personally, I like less is now better than minimalism. It's the less popular of the two, but, you know, it's maybe been seen by 45 or 50 million people instead of 100 million or whatever minimalism is at now. But I, I, if you look at it, that first film, we had no budget at all. And there's some magic to not having a budget. And I think if you throw money

• 54:45Joshua Fields Millburn?

  at a problem, and that's the, the main thing that you do, what's Ray say, that, our friend Ray Flinnings, he says, that if you have a problem that money can solve, you don't have a problem. What does he mean by that?

• 54:56Speaker 02

  I, I still have to think about that one, man. We gotta get Ray back, so we can just have an episode about that. But to the people, I'll, I'll pause here with the questions, but to the people, feel free to ask him whatever you want about items you're thinking about purchasing, in, in terms of what he would buy. But also, if you come across something, and it seems like a weird thing for, to spend money on, or a lot of money to pay for that, feel free to use what would Joshua own for those types of questions to Joshua, is this something you would pay for? Or if someone gave it to you for free, would you pay for it? Because I love to have more dialogue with him about the logic behind what he would and wouldn't buy, or would and wouldn't take for free.

• 55:37Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I love that. What's the thought process behind that? And I also try to do that when someone, like last week, we were talking about, I use that thing called a, a neuropod as a vagus nerve simulator. I even reached out to the company, because the lady who, who wrote in, Sally, I think her name was, no, Sandra, Sonia, whatever her name was, she was asking about like, what brand do you use? And I'm often trepidatious, but I got so much value from that thing. But then I often spend a lot of the segment talking people out of buying the thing as well. Like, let me tell you why you don't need it. Most people won't need these things. And, and I think that's maybe like the most honest

• 56:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  version of approaching these things, is going through the intellectual decision process of, okay, how did you decide to, because I bought that thing full price? And the reason I did that, well, a couple of things. I don't accept freebies, generally. There are a couple of exceptions, gifts and coffee, that kind of thing. But there's something that goes into that thought process. And, and for me, it's about not just saying, here's the best item that I use, also consume this item, please. It's about, here's the thought process I went behind, I went through to get that item. And most of the time, I say no to things. So when I do say yes to something, it is rather well-considered. Up next, page two

• 57:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  and page three. You can send in your what would Joshua own questions, by the way, or a listener tip. Just send a voice memo to [email protected], or head on over to call.show/theminimals. We'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. And we'll feature your voice on a future episode. Up next, page two and page three. But first, let's take a quick pandiculation break. We'll be right back. All right, y'all. That is the first 33% of episode 549. We'll see you on Patreon for the full two-hour maximal edition, which includes answers to a bunch more questions. TK, we talked about, we talked to Erica, who's feeling overwhelmed by toys and keepsakes,

• 57:45Joshua Fields Millburn?

  and also some resale inventory she has in her house. A lot of things, a lot of hoarding traits from her past are coming to the surface. Also, her family's hoarding traits from when she was a kid. We're gonna talk to her about distinguishing between what's worth keeping and what is simply taking up space. Also, Najma wants to know how long a minimalist should hold on to baby items when they're unsure whether their family is complete. What a way to phrase that. Is your family complete? And another question we have about why ownership might be a shared delusion. All that and so much more this week over on the private podcast on Patreon. The link is in the description. When you subscribe, you can listen to our

• 58:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  private episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite app, whatever podcast app you listen to, to listen to podcasts. Plus, you'll gain access to all of our archives. It's over a decade of podcast archives, all the way back to the very first episode over there on Patreon. That is our minimal episode for today. On behalf of Ryan Nicodemus, washing dishes, TK, answering one question at a time, Audio Ben, Spire Jeff and Dave, Tomcat, Professor Sean, Savvy D, and the rest of our team. I'm Joshua Fields. Melbourne, if you leave here with just one message, let it be this. Love people and wash dishes, because the opposite will get you in trouble. Thanks for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Be free.