Gary Oldman

This week we’re joined by British acting royalty - in every sense of the word - it’s the newly knighted Sir Gary Oldman! Mum & I popped over to the Dorchester in London where Gary treated us to his (and Jackson Lamb’s) very favourite Chinese meal. We heard all about his life in Palm Springs, his mum’s cooking, growing up in New Cross, playing Lee Harvey Oswald, living in an empty hotel, the future of Slow Horses and we hear an incredibly touching story of his friendship with the late John Hurt. Thank you Gary for such a delightful afternoon, what a treat to eat and chat with such an icon. The new fifth series of Slow Horses is now streaming on Apple TV+. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:35Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Table Mares. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Lenny. And today, we're at the Dorchester.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  Darling, it's where I belong, darling.

• 0:45Jessie Ware?

  The flowers in the reception.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Gorgeous.

• 0:48Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  But it's so beautiful downstairs. It's so lovely and ornate and luxurious.

• 0:55Jessie Ware?

  Well, we have a massive, massive British legend.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  Icon.

• 1:02Jessie Ware?

  Recently, well, just yesterday.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Just call him sir.

• 1:06Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. Knighted by Prince William.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09Jessie Ware?

  We have Sir Gary Oldman on the podcast.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  I couldn't be more thrilled.

• 1:15Jessie Ware?

  I know, I'm excited.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Jackson Lamb in the room.

• 1:18Jessie Ware?

  We are also going to be having a Chinese takeaway.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Which he's chosen.

• 1:24Jessie Ware?

  Which is from Chinatown, which is downstairs in the Dorchester. Apparently Gary's favourite, Sir Gary's favourite. And he has actually chosen the menu. So we are very hands off today. All we had to do was turn up.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  And eat.

• 1:41Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, perfect. How are you, Mum?

• 1:44Speaker 02

  I'm all right, darling. We had a bit of a party last night.

• 1:47Jessie Ware?

  We did.

• 1:48Speaker 02

  To launch the new season.

• 1:50Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, we did. It was fun.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  And it was great fun, yeah.

• 1:53Jessie Ware?

  It was at Brunswick House and it was delicious food.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Delicious, in a beautiful room.

• 1:58Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Decorated with beautiful flowers. We were drinking beautiful cocktails, which was even better.

• 2:04Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, thank you, Moth. So Sir Gary Oldman is on to talk predominantly about slow horses. But this is somebody who is an Oscar winner, an award-winning director and writer.

• 2:17Jessie Ware?

  Big United fan.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:19Jessie Ware?

  Resides in Palm Springs and.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  What, it's a strange place to end, from New Cross to Palm Springs.

• 2:26Jessie Ware?

  Well, let's find out why he chose Palm Springs. Um, he's been in big blockbusters, independent films, he's been many a villain, but also quite a chameleon, you know, from playing Winston Churchill to Lee Harvey Oswald to.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  A spy.

• 2:43Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, he's good at spies, isn't he? But yeah, we're here to talk about Slow Horses on Apple TV Plus.

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48Jessie Ware?

  The new season, it's season five.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  And it's fab.

• 2:51Jessie Ware?

  It's really good. I've watched two episodes and, I mean, they really like pull you in straight away.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  How could you even bear to watch two? I have to pace mine.

• 3:02Jessie Ware?

  I don't know.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  One a week because it's my best treat of the week.

• 3:05Jessie Ware?

  But you've got such restraint.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  I just have to watch, because I want to watch it on my big screen.

• 3:11Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Not on an iPad.

• 3:12Jessie Ware?

  I know, uh, these are the, the, the first world problems that we lead as, as podcasters that we get, you know, to watch a lot of things early, but Lenny doesn't like watching it on her iPad.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  No, I like to sit in my sitting room, a glass of wine and enjoy every single second.

• 3:29Jessie Ware?

  Well, I've watched two.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:31Jessie Ware?

  It's pacey, it's exciting, Shirley is still troubled. And, um, Jackson is still swearing.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  And Ho is still annoying.

• 3:42Jessie Ware?

  Ho is annoying.

• 3:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wonder if he annoys Gary if he's a method actor.

• 3:48Jessie Ware?

  Um, Sir Gary Oldman coming up on Table manners.

• 3:59Jessie Ware?

  Sir Gary Oldman.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:02Jessie Ware?

  How does it feel?

• 4:03Speaker 03

  Wonderful.

• 4:04Jessie Ware?

  Does it?

• 4:04Speaker 02

  Does it?

• 4:05Speaker 03

  It is, it's surreal.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Which knee do you go down on?

• 4:09Speaker 03

  I went down on the, on the right knee.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  Do they tell you to do the right, not the left?

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Well, there's a kneeling stool, it's a special stool. And the handle to it is on, on the right hand side.

• 4:22Jessie Ware?

  So it's obvious.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they walk you through it.

• 4:26Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  What you do, where you come in and you stop. And you and you bow, but you acknowledge his royal highness.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  And was it just William there or was Kate there as well?

• 4:38Speaker 03

  That was just William.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  And he has a sword?

• 4:42Speaker 03

  He does have a sword.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  A big one, a big one?

• 4:44Speaker 03

  It's.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Shush, Jesse.

• 4:46Jessie Ware?

  What, sorry, did you want that phallic little joke, did you? Sorry.

• 4:51Jessie Ware?

  Sorry, carry on, she can be more filthy, don't worry.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  No, don't.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Um. Oh, he's, but it's a real magic trick that that that they have because there's a gentleman neck but just behind him. And um and he and he takes the sword and taps and then the sword, it's it's there and it's gone. It it's like a magician.

• 5:18Jessie Ware?

  So we don't know if it was sharp?

• 5:20Speaker 03

  Don't think so.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Taking your head off if they're nice, yeah.

• 5:22Speaker 03

  I think it's flat, like it's not with the edge.

• 5:27Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, well.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  Um, and um, and of course, this now, I mean, this dates back to the Norman kings in the fourteenth century. So now I am, should there be an uprising?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Are you going to fight for your country?

• 5:44Speaker 03

  I'm, I would have to gather up my sword and and protect the realm.

• 5:51Jessie Ware?

  So you wouldn't just stay in Palm Springs?

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Well, I'd have to get on a plane, wouldn't I? I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't get on a horse. I'd have to get on an air, I'd have to get on an airplane, but I'd be, I'm there, I'm there. Give me, give me.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Gary, when you're down, when you're on your knee, do they then say, what I think they say? Arise, Sir Gary Oldman? Did he say that? Bloody hell!

• 6:17Speaker 03

  No, it's, I tell you what it is, it's a, it's a, it's an.

• 6:23Speaker 03

  I was more emotional than I thought I would be.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Why do you think?

• 6:28Speaker 03

  It's a big deal.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  It's a big deal for a new class boy.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  I mean, I mean, I mean, you've.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  The journey one has made.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Um.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  From a kid from Deptford, you know. You know, the the Oscar's a big deal.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Um.

• 6:46Speaker 03

  It's looked as the, you know, as the pinnacle of the the art.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Um.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  But I'd been on stage before. I've been in plays, looking out at an audience. So you can imagine what it's like to win an Oscar. You you can put yourself there.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Um.

• 7:10Speaker 03

  Because I've been on stage and I've looked out at people.

• 7:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  This is, you can't rehearse for this. It's singular, unique. It is what it is, and it is what it is in the moment. So it's quite overwhelming.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  How did you celebrate?

• 7:31Speaker 03

  I celebrated with family and friends last night. Um.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Did you eat anything good?

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, Italian. We went to um German Street. This um restaurant that I like called Franco's.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:47Speaker 03

  We went to Franco's and it was my son Alfie and his wife Sarah. We hoped they'd bring the baby, so we had a high chair at the ready. But um she was she was at home with uh with with grandma, Lesley Manfield.

• 8:08Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh, that sounds so funny.

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Oh, she was looking after them.

• 8:12Speaker 02

  You don't imagine her as a grandma.

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Well, she's still my, I'm a grandad.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  I know you are.

• 8:17Speaker 03

  So um.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Does it, what's your nickname as a grandpa? Are you grandad or?

• 8:22Speaker 03

  I think it's grandad.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Um.

• 8:26Speaker 03

  But uh so Alfie and Sarah were there and some very, very close friends and my wife, Giselle, Lady Oldman now, should I say.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Lady Oldman. Can she put that on her passport now?

• 8:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can have it on, yes, and it's Giselle comma Lady Oldman. That's how it's officially.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Will you be changing your bank cards?

• 8:48Speaker 03

  No, I mean, I I think, I believe that Mister is done with from now on.

• 8:56Speaker 02

  Yes, you're Sir Gary.

• 8:59Speaker 03

  But, um.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  I have to say, to to describe it, it's, there's what they call the long walk, you know.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Which palace was it in?

• 9:12Speaker 03

  It was at Windsor.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Oh Windsor.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  So you drive up on the on the road, the long walk going and the castle appears. It was a beautiful day, sun shining, um people in the park with the dogs and. Um, and you go through a security check and then you park up and then you go, you walk through one arch and then, you know, it's all. It it's, no one does it. The pomp circumstance, all the pageantry and everything else, no one can do it like the British. It is absolutely, and you get there and every room, the ceilings are.

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Hand painted and impressive, there's a big wonderful, wonderful marble statue of Queen Victoria. There's a quintet playing Handel or Bach, all the people in attendance and the thing, it is, it is.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Gorgeous.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  It's wonderful.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Were you, were you nervous?

• 10:14Speaker 03

  I wasn't nervous.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Right, okay.

• 10:16Speaker 03

  I was, um, just, when I got there, we had a brief conversation. I just, it took me a second to find my voice.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Because I was, I was surprised by how emotional I was, and it's.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:38Jessie Ware?

  Can we, can we take it back to Deptford? This is where you grew up.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Which road were you on?

• 10:43Jessie Ware?

  I'm in New Cross Gate.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  I was born in New Cross Gate. Where are you?

• 10:47Jessie Ware?

  I'm Telegraph Hill.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  Oh Telegraph Hill. I was born at number ten Hatcham Park Road.

• 10:55Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god, you're, you're so near me.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:57Jessie Ware?

  So you grew up there. Can you paint the picture for everyone? Who was round the dinner table and what was a really memorable dish from your childhood?

• 11:05Speaker 03

  Well, I think Sunday lunch must have been. My mother was very good with pastry.

• 11:11Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  She was, could, could really do a good, a good steak kidney pie. Good, good apple pie, not so good with um Italian cuisine. Which was um spaghetti and um tomato sauce. And some mince meat was her version of a bolognese.

• 11:37Jessie Ware?

  Did you eat it, though?

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. But just looking back at now, at the time, but looking back and thinking. God, that was a version of spaghetti bolognese. But a pretty good Sunday lunch. I only really remember it, it, me, my mum around the table. My dad was gone at the time I was seven.

• 12:03Jessie Ware?

  Hmm.

• 12:03Speaker 03

  And my sisters, who are, the elder Maureen, I think, is thirteen years older than me. So they would have, they were young and had fled the nest. So I was sort of, even though I've got two sisters, I was technically an only kid. Because, because um and my mum brought me up, but I was brought, really, my sisters did spoil me, particularly Jackie. Who spoiled me. Um, so I was just brought up by women.

• 12:39Jessie Ware?

  And did your sister inspire you to start acting? I know you acted locally and what was, what was it, the Young People's Theatre or something?

• 12:47Speaker 03

  Greenwich Young People's Theatre.

• 12:48Jessie Ware?

  I don't even know if that still exists, actually.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  Uh, perhaps not.

• 12:51Jessie Ware?

  Was your sister going to that as well?

• 12:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 12:54Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  I, I would have these flights of fancy. I decided that I stumbled upon a, a, a Chopin record. And had never really heard classical music before. And I remember just being so taken with it. And I decided I wanted to play the piano. So I saved up my pocket money, went to Peckham. There was a big old furniture store, big warehouse at the end of, at the end of Peckham Rye.

• 13:29Speaker 03

  And I bought a ten pound, for ten quid, I bought an upright piano. And then took lessons locally. And then I went to the Blackheath Conservatory on music. And I, I was just, it was like, I wanna play the piano.

• 13:50Jessie Ware?

  So that happened before wanting to act?

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, you know, what did I wanna be? I origi-, I think I originally wanted to be an astronaut.

• 14:00Jessie Ware?

  Classic.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  But when my mum was giving me a wash down on the, you know, in the sink.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  As we, you know, I mean, we're still talking outside toilet.

• 14:12Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 14:12Speaker 03

  Iron bath.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  You, you know what I mean?

• 14:17Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, and in fact, I, that's what we had when, where I was born, in Coventry, you had an iron bath.

• 14:21Speaker 03

  You know, and the fire, coal fire.

• 14:24Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 03

  And the coalman would deliver the coal and, yeah, so it was, you know. Charles Dickens was a very good friend of mine.

• 14:32Jessie Ware?

  Did you read a lot?

• 14:34Speaker 03

  No, not, not particularly. I was always, um. I was happy in my own company. It, in my fantas-, in my head. And I would draw and I loved plasticine as a kid.

• 14:51Jessie Ware?

  Plasticine.

• 14:51Speaker 03

  I would make models out of plasticine and a, a very old paper mache.

• 14:58Jessie Ware?

  Oh, God, yeah, I used, and I liked the smell of it too.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:03Jessie Ware?

  Because it was on newspaper.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  And the glue, and the glue, and then you would, and then it would dry, and then you would burn, then you would paint.

• 15:09Jessie Ware?

  Did your mum kind of know what to do with this very creative, quite sensitive, I imagine, soul that was, you know, wanting to listen to Chopin, buying himself a piano, doing paper mache?

• 15:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:20Jessie Ware?

  Whilst all growing up in, you know, working class Deptford. Did she, was she enthusiastic and encouraging?

• 15:28Speaker 03

  I don't think she really, no, not in that.

• 15:33Speaker 03

  She was sort of woman.

• 15:38Speaker 03

  There are wom- women of that generation.

• 15:43Speaker 03

  That went through the war and you you know they they don't make them like that anymore. They're they're they're really.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  But but yeah, but I mean. My mum was born in nineteen nineteen.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  And then. You know, died a few years back, but she she was hoping for the hundredth year to get the.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Oh, was she.

• 16:09Speaker 03

  She was of that generation where you'd get the letter from the Queen.

• 16:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Obsessed with this, getting the letter from the Queen. Um, but she she made ninety nine.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Crikey.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Well, you're gonna make old burns then.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  Yes, but you've got to remember, people always say, oh, your mum lived for a long, you know. You know, oh, you've got good genes. But then my mother wasn't eating processed food for half of her life.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 16:37Speaker 03

  I mean, all the crap that that we we we get.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  It's you that eats crap, Gary. We've seen it all on Slow Horses.

• 16:47Jessie Ware?

  Well, and this leads me to what we're eating. Now, we're in the Dorchester. And I hear you do like the restaurant downstairs quite a lot.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  I I well, I've been a few times to Chinatown, yes, downstairs.

• 17:00Jessie Ware?

  So you're you've kind of chosen the menu for today, or someone has. Um, the some of your favourites.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  Yes, I was involved in that in that decision making.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  Do you like a Chinese, wherever you are?

• 17:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 03

  I lived in New York for quite a few years. And there's something about, I'm sure if people haven't lived there or experienced it, they've seen it in movies. Where you get the.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  In the car.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  Yes, and they, yeah, I mean, it's and they're they're ten a penny there. There's some really great Chinese places, just local little hole in the walls that you can go to and order. And order Chinese food. We don't really have one in Palm Springs. We we we need.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, that I was thinking that. I mean, I don't know about Chinese. You certainly can't get a good Indian in maybe Palm Springs.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  You can.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  You can?

• 17:53Speaker 03

  There's a local that delivers.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  You're kidding.

• 17:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's really good.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  What's it called?

• 17:58Jessie Ware?

  Do you wanna give it away or not?

• 17:59Speaker 02

  The Taj Mahal or something, no?

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Star of India.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Star of India. Jessie Jessie's got, what's that name of that place that you've got near you?

• 18:07Jessie Ware?

  Well.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Two Star Tandoori.

• 18:09Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, I mean, and actually, I'd say it's fine.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  But they don't call.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Two star.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  The two star tandoori. Such a dance move, doesn't it? I'm gonna do the two star tandoori now. Like, the sort of, it would be on Dancing with the Stars, wouldn't it? And this week.

• 18:29Jessie Ware?

  Gary does.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  Fred and Linda.

• 18:31Speaker 02

  Are doing two stars.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  Doing the two star tandoori.

• 18:37Jessie Ware?

  I, but you did, as Jackson Lamb, you did incorporate the box of Chinese. You're always eating a bit of Chinese.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:46Jessie Ware?

  Was that like a intention from you? Like, was that, because I know that you take, from what I've heard, is when you take on a role. You kind of, would you call yourself a method actor? I mean, like.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  I wouldn't call myself a method actor.

• 18:59Jessie Ware?

  But but food becomes quite important, I've heard, that like, I mean, is it that each character has, you think about the way he walks or?

• 19:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, but but there's an old thing of knowing what's in the fridge for the character.

• 19:13Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, what's in the fridge? Well, I have to say, with with with Jackson Lamb, Slow Horses. We, the show's adapted from books, these books by Mick Heron. And the universe, the world that we're in. And and the characters are all from Mick's imagination.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  He created the character of Jackson Lamb, which is, it's all there in the book.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  We, I've read the book.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're terrific.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  And I love Mick Herron, yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 03

  They're terrific books. So the, all the signposts.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 03

  It was like he laid out a map for me. And all the signposts are there and it informs the choices that you make. How you move, the way you dress, you, you get clues from, from good writing.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  Bad writing is, that's a whole different thing.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  I mean, I was absolutely thrilled. He was on the radio the other week and he's written a new one, a new Slow Horses. So.

• 20:17Jessie Ware?

  So what will that be, eight, is it?

• 20:18Speaker 02

  No, it's about twelve, thirteen.

• 20:20Speaker 03

  I think it's, well, he's done little short stories from the Slough House series. That offshoots Novellas, I suppose. But, well, here's the thing. He will keep writing.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  Thank God.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  Will we? W- will Apple keep writing the checks?

• 20:43Jessie Ware?

  Well, it's very successful.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Gosh.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  And how much, and how much do we? How many, how many more lambs do I have in me?

• 20:51Speaker 02

  I think you've got a lot of lambs there, darling. I'm sure you have.

• 20:55Jessie Ware?

  You, you say about good writing and that he gave you all these, this map of this, you know, signposting, but then from what I understand of JFK, Oliver Stone kind of gave you a few aeroplane tickets. And he was like, go research yourself. And there wasn't that much on him. So what would you have said that was in Lee Harvey Oswald? Like, what would have been in his fridge?

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Oh, Lee Harvey Oswald. Well, I think before he met Marina,

• 21:26Speaker 03

  there'd have been very little in his fridge. Eggs, milk, processed food. Early sort of, uh, an early version of processed food, what the Americans would call a TV dinner. Where you would put it in and just warm it up in the oven. And then later became a family man.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  So it would have been the real standard American weekly shop. But yeah, Oliver.

• 21:57Speaker 03

  It it you become, not every job is the is the same. But that was it was sort of unique because there wasn't just a great deal on the page. And then he sort of put me in touch with a few contacts. And he gave me a bunch of airline tickets and things and just said, um, go off and find out.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  That's exciting.

• 22:23Speaker 03

  And you met different people. It was like being a detective. It was like being a sort of investigator. We went to the actual, the landlady where Oswald had stayed.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Fascinating.

• 22:39Speaker 03

  Um, and all the locations were the real deal. It was it was it was extraordinary to do in that respect.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Fantastic.

• 22:48Speaker 03

  The the attention to the the researchers and the attention to detail on it was quite. So it it was a very, I've a good feeling about it when I think of when when I think of it, you know.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Gary, you've now been associating with royalty and you're almost royalty yourself. Have you played any kings or?

• 23:09Jessie Ware?

  Maybe it's time.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Have I played a king?

• 23:12Jessie Ware?

  I don't know. You've played like everyone else.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  I think you should be playing royalty.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Do you think so?

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, do darling, absolutely.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Well, I've played a president.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:21Speaker 03

  And a prime minister.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 23:24Jessie Ware?

  A composer.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've never played a king.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 23:28Speaker 03

  I don't think I've played a king.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Have you done any Shakespeare?

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  And not a king in that?

• 23:34Speaker 03

  No.

• 23:34Jessie Ware?

  Didn't you tell someone to stop eating chocolate when they at R S C production?

• 23:39Speaker 03

  How do you know that?

• 23:40Jessie Ware?

  We've done our research, guys.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  No, they weren't eating chocolate. They were sighing.

• 23:44Jessie Ware?

  Sighing?

• 23:46Speaker 03

  Oh. They were loudly tutting.

• 23:52Jessie Ware?

  Weren't Shakespeare fans?

• 23:54Speaker 03

  It wasn't Shakespeare. It was it was it was a new, it was a modern play. It was a new play by Trevor Griffiths. Um, yeah, and I.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  Got a bit upset with them.

• 24:06Jessie Ware?

  So, did you find, you found them after the thing and had a word?

• 24:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, in the interval.

• 24:11Jessie Ware?

  I lo- I, I, I love, I love that, that you're busy doing probably an incredible performance, as you always do, but you've still got an eye on somebody and you're gonna locate them after, fair enough.

• 24:20Speaker 03

  Well, it came about because it was at the RSC at the Barbican, and it was in the theatre downstairs, in what they called the pit.

• 24:27Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  So the audience.

• 24:28Jessie Ware?

  It's small.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  The, the front row of the audience is where they're always. So it's not like, there, it's not like they're out there.

• 24:36Jessie Ware?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:37Speaker 03

  It's an intimate thing, and this, just this person was about two rows back, and every time we said a line or whatever, you just heard. Oh, God.

• 24:48Jessie Ware?

  Oh, fuck off.

• 24:50Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 24:51Jessie Ware?

  Oh, shit.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Oh. And, um.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  That whirred me up a bit.

• 24:58Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, fair enough. Now, Al- producer Alice is bringing in your order.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  What is it?

• 25:03Jessie Ware?

  So, you may have to take us through your order, so Gary Oldham.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Wow, it looks gorgeous.

• 25:07Jessie Ware?

  It looks delicious.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Now, that is the green beans with chili and garlic.

• 25:12Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, look at those little ones.

• 25:15Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I love a dumpling.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I thought I'd get the, the dumplings. Some of these things I did not order. Someone's been busy.

• 25:23Jessie Ware?

  Sorry, it may have been me being over.

• 25:24Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, it's fine.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Did you say?

• 25:27Jessie Ware?

  No, I said, I think, Gary, they said, oh, you know, you probably don't eat pork, and I was like, because you're Jewish, and I was like, no, no, we do, we do.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Crispy beef.

• 25:34Jessie Ware?

  Yum.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  Chicken with black bean.

• 25:37Jessie Ware?

  Delicious.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  Delicious. Lovely rice.

• 25:39Speaker 03

  Lovely, a sort of, yeah, that should be a sort of mixed fried rice, and these are, they're like a soup.

• 25:47Jessie Ware?

  They're my favourite.

• 25:48Speaker 03

  Dumpling.

• 25:48Jessie Ware?

  Love them.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Darling, do you want chopsticks or a knife and fork?

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Chopsticks, please.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Thank you. Do you want chopsticks, darling?

• 25:54Jessie Ware?

  That may be a corn toast or something, but like a baby.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  I may, I may be from Deptford.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  But you know how to use your chopsticks?

• 26:01Speaker 03

  I may be from the gutter, but I know how to use a chopstick.

• 26:06Jessie Ware?

  You know what, I'm rubbish at them.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, but do have one of.

• 26:10Jessie Ware?

  I love them.

• 26:11Speaker 03

  Would you like, would you like a soup?

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Oh, I'd, I'd love a dumpling.

• 26:14Jessie Ware?

  But careful, because it really bursts in your mouth.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Thank you. Gary, there's a lot of annoying people that you have to work, that, that are part of your gang in Slow Horses.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Who's the most annoying?

• 26:30Jessie Ware?

  Character or?

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Character, not actor.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  There aren't any annoying actors.

• 26:34Jessie Ware?

  No.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  No, they're all fabulous.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  I'm happy to say it has been one of, in terms of just working with a group of people, it has been one of the most joyful experiences I've had.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 26:49Speaker 03

  Because they are just cracking lunch of, of, of.

• 26:55Jessie Ware?

  So shame loads of them get killed, isn't it?

• 26:57Speaker 02

  I know.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, they do.

• 26:58Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, and then you can't hang out anymore, like gorgeous Kadif Cohen.

• 27:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, Kadif.

• 27:02Jessie Ware?

  Sorry, spoiler.

• 27:03Speaker 03

  We kind of miss him. No, not a spoiler.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  He's, they went last.

• 27:06Jessie Ware?

  He went in season three, but still, yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Gary, you've got the most gorgeous scarf on that I'm admiring. Are you going to do a Jackson Lamb on us and get it all, all your stuff down there?

• 27:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I might absolutely.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm worried about that.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  I have a beautiful story behind the scarf.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Oh, it's gorgeous.

• 27:22Speaker 03

  It is old, it's a bit of old vintage Paul Smith.

• 27:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh, you love Paul Smith, don't you?

• 27:28Speaker 03

  Paul, he's gorgeous.

• 27:30Jessie Ware?

  We, we, we had Paul on the pod, didn't we?

• 27:32Speaker 03

  Um, and it's got one little heart. So the story goes, I did Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy with John Hurt and many other wonderful actors, but I adored John. And I, I was a big fan. And when I met him for the first time, I was like fanboy. It was like, God, John, I loved him. And he did not disappoint. He was a darling man, great storyteller, and we had many, many laughs. I then caught up with him in California and he was doing Crap's Last Tape, the Samuel Beckett play.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  And I went backstage and, uh, said hello. And one of the first things he said to me was, oh, I love your scarf. So I took it off, put it round his neck, and I said, it's yours now.

• 28:31Speaker 03

  And I gave it to him. Anyway, I, earlier this year, I went back to York where I started my career in nineteen seventy nine. And I went back on stage and I did Crap's Last Tape in York. And Anwin, John's widow now, came to see the play. So it's the same play that John had been in many years previous. And she said, she gave me a beautiful,

• 29:15Speaker 03

  that sort of first night card that she'd made in a box frame that she'd given John.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  And gave it to me to sort of pass it on. It was really, I was so touched by it. Anyway, we went to dinner and she has a little bag and she said, I have something for you. And she gave him the scarf back.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  How important is that?

• 29:45Speaker 03

  And, um, yeah, sweet, really, really lovely, lovely thing, lovely thing. So, um, you mentioned the scarf and

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Gorgeous.

• 29:58Speaker 03

  That's the story behind it. It found it, went all the way around and he kind of found it's came back, you know, in a, in a, came back in a very, in a sad but very beautiful way, you know?

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Well, it will always make you think of him, always. Yeah, he's there.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I sometimes put it on and I just put it

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Just to have him with you.

• 30:18Speaker 03

  And I go, hello, Johnny.

• 30:30Speaker 00

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• 31:05Speaker 02

  This is delicious.

• 31:07Jessie Ware?

  These are so delicious.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  This is mushroom something.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  But to answer your question,

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  Rodrick Ho is the most annoying fucker.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  We've just said that.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I just can't.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  He's so annoying.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  A lamb, just... It's like...

• 31:27Speaker 02

  I don't know why you don't get rid of him.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Because he can do computers.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  He's so annoying.

• 31:34Jessie Ware?

  My husband loves him.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  I mean, in a lovely way.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 31:38Speaker 03

  Annoying in an enjoyable way, he's not like...

• 31:40Speaker 02

  What's he like in true life? Is he absolutely...

• 31:42Jessie Ware?

  He's Australian, I hear.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  I know, he's Australian.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  He's a dog, great, very close to...

• 31:48Speaker 02

  Oh, Jessie, this is so delicious.

• 31:49Jessie Ware?

  This is really good.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  Maybe we should come here for my birthday.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, do you like, so far?

• 31:55Jessie Ware?

  Delicious. This is a perfect date, Gary.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  Good.

• 31:58Jessie Ware?

  I'm really enjoying it, thank you.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  How many dates have you had?

• 32:02Jessie Ware?

  Well, now I'm going to sound like a right slagbag, but yeah.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  I'm not.

• 32:07Jessie Ware?

  We're on our 18th season. So how many? About 300. About 300 dates, but you're the best, Gary.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  You tart. 300.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  What are these, Gary?

• 32:20Speaker 03

  Um, they were ordered by someone other than me.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Oh, it's a little crispy wonton.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  You know what, it's probably a shrimp or a prawn.

• 32:30Jessie Ware?

  This is really good. Whilst you're spooning a bit of chili, crispy chili beef.

• 32:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, while I'm spooning crispy beef.

• 32:37Jessie Ware?

  You need to start thinking about your last supper, starter, main, food and drink of choice.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  My last supper?

• 32:45Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 03

  What I would put on the menu.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Before you go away to a desert island.

• 32:50Jessie Ware?

  For a very long time, yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  There's a lot of kind of food that I like. I do like Chinese food. I happen to, I like Italian.

• 33:00Speaker 03

  I think, for me, that gets the prize, you know? Um, I have certain favourite Italian dishes, but there's there's a simple dish that my wife makes and we all love it.

• 33:15Jessie Ware?

  What is it?

• 33:16Speaker 03

  It's like prime, um, beef. And it's a, an ingredient that she uses, um, called, have you heard of maggi?

• 33:29Jessie Ware?

  Oh, the seasoning, yeah.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  Her father is German and her mother's French. And her grandmother, her French grandmother, used to make this dish. Really, really simple. And it's just like chip pasta

• 33:48Speaker 03

  with this meat and the maggi and the various spices.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  And she adds something else, the sauce thickens. And it's what you would describe as a peasant dish, you know, like it's inexpensive. And it was something that her grandmother made. And now we all have been, since she came into my life.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  My kids and everybody, we've all been introduced to this dish. And it's called little meat.

• 34:21Jessie Ware?

  Little meat?

• 34:22Speaker 03

  Little meat. And often when the kids come over. I say kids, you know, my kids. They're men, but when the kids come over. And she says, is there anything that you like? And they nearly always say, yeah, can we, can you make a little meat?

• 34:41Jessie Ware?

  Can you cook?

• 34:42Speaker 03

  If I have to.

• 34:43Jessie Ware?

  If we were coming over.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 34:46Jessie Ware?

  What would you rustle up for us?

• 34:48Speaker 03

  When I first met my wife. She came over and I made a.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  I think it was oregano toast with baked beans.

• 34:56Jessie Ware?

  How did you do the eggs?

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Over easy.

• 34:59Jessie Ware?

  Oh, okay.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Fried.

• 35:01Jessie Ware?

  What oil do you use or do you use butter?

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Bit of olive oil.

• 35:04Jessie Ware?

  Did she like, well, she stood, stuck around, so she's, she obviously liked it.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, she stuck around. I don't know, I do. I do a very simple pasta dish. Butter, olive oil. Sate like onions and peppers and, you know, I mean. Nothing, I'm not. By any stretch of the imagination.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  A cook, my son is.

• 35:28Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:29Speaker 03

  Charlie can cook. Yeah. Very, I'm very experimental.

• 35:33Jessie Ware?

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Does some really nice stuff. Yeah, but I'm never. It's fuel, that's all it is. I mean, I do like a nice meal, but. When I'm focused on work.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  I can go without much.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  I wish I was like that.

• 35:52Jessie Ware?

  Go on.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  I can just, yeah.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, we live to eat rather than need to live.

• 35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:57Jessie Ware?

  Have you got a sweet tooth?

• 35:58Speaker 03

  I developed one.

• 35:59Jessie Ware?

  Oh, really? What made you develop a sweet tooth?

• 36:02Speaker 03

  I think because I gave up drinking.

• 36:04Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Um, you know, you're getting sugar from booze.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Jessie could have some beans.

• 36:10Jessie Ware?

  Mm hmm. So what would be your pudding on your last supper?

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Rice pudding, probably.

• 36:15Jessie Ware?

  Rice pudding? From the, um, like ambrosia?

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:20Jessie Ware?

  Or more fancy pants?

• 36:21Speaker 03

  No, that would be all right, or a homemade rice pudding. Um.

• 36:27Jessie Ware?

  Bit of jam?

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like a sponge cake. Awesome.

• 36:32Jessie Ware?

  What, like, kind of school meals, sponge cake?

• 36:34Speaker 03

  School meal sponge cake with, with custard.

• 36:37Jessie Ware?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Gary, while you're over here, will you go to a football match?

• 36:41Speaker 03

  I haven't got time.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  What a shame.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Leaving. To, I'm leaving on a jet plane.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Tomorrow?

• 36:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  Back to Palm Springs?

• 36:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Do you love it there?

• 36:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  It's warm, isn't it?

• 36:54Speaker 03

  It is warm.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  It's about three hundred and sixty days of sunshine. Yeah, but, um, in August, July August.

• 37:04Speaker 02

  It's hot.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  It gets to about a hundred and twenty, a hundred and twenty-three Fahrenheit.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  So do you come to Europe then?

• 37:13Speaker 03

  No, just stuff, we, we stuff, you know, put the air conditioning on.

• 37:18Jessie Ware?

  That's what we need to start getting here.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Well, I've only been to Palm Springs once.

• 37:24Jessie Ware?

  Coachella.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  When Jesse was singing at Coachella.

• 37:27Jessie Ware?

  But I really like Palm Springs, actually.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Palm Springs is gorgeous, Coachella was. I never knew dust could get in crevices of your body.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  I have dogs.

• 37:37Jessie Ware?

  What kind of dogs?

• 37:38Speaker 03

  I've got, um, a little papillon and a little terrier. They're both, they're rescued dogs.

• 37:46Jessie Ware?

  Uh-huh.

• 37:47Speaker 03

  And my son, who's staying with us at the moment, as to, he has an Australian sheepdog and a scruffy

• 37:56Speaker 03

  adorable terrier. Um, and, um, ha- dog hair and the dust in the desert. I've given up. I can't bear dust and now, oh. Would, you have to-

• 38:13Speaker 02

  Are you constantly hoovering?

• 38:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm wiping stuff down and you go,

• 38:18Speaker 03

  after a while, it's, you have to surrender to it. You have to give in to it. And the, and the fur balls and the things and you, you know, and you vacuum. We don't have a, we don't have a cleaner. We do it, my wife and I.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Why do you not have a cleaner? Can't you afford it, Gary?

• 38:42Speaker 02

  I'll treat you.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 38:50Speaker 02

  You don't like the intrusion, it's annoying.

• 38:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know lots of people like that.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  My my my wife wants to just do the do the duvet and the sheets. You know, not have someone come in and so, uh.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Uh, you know, I have my I have my my skill set that I'm good at and then and hers and then we're kind of between us but but. Um, we don't have a big.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  Uh, we have nice yard and stuff.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  You've got a pool.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Of course you have.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  But it it comes with it, you know, it's sort of. But in terms of just real estate.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:33Speaker 03

  Or size, it's modest.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  It's not a ma- mansion.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Have you got homes in other places?

• 39:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  So when you're filming Slow Horses, you live here?

• 39:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  That's nice.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  Shut up. Oh, no.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Not here?

• 39:48Speaker 03

  I have lived here, but we've got a house that we're renting.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:52Speaker 03

  That the company rent, you know, and we go to that, but. When I the first season of Slow Horses was the pandemic.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 40:02Speaker 03

  Covid and Doug and I were the only two people in this hotel.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  That's insane.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  It was like The Shining. It was like The Overlook. It was so spooky. We were the only two. And then for the first time in its history, it closed down.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  So what like, because staff weren't able to be here. But you, they said you can keep your room.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 40:26Speaker 03

  And we used to order in and they brought in a limited very a s- a skeleton s- staff. And they'd prepare some food and then refrigerate the food.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Um, and I could call room service and there was someone answering the phone and they said, oh, we can knock up. Whatever, but we had this.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  I don't know why we were on different floors, but he was at a higher floor than me.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  And we were there at the pandemic, with no one around, as you know, a ghost town, no one here. I took some video, actually, I walked around the hotel, I filled the back elevators and it was really, really spooky. Some of the floors were were closed.

• 41:20Jessie Ware?

  But also, we're on Park Lane, it's like, and you've got Hyde Park and just everything being so silent.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  There was no traffic.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, spooky. Um, so we needed, we needed to entertain ourselves. And I said, look, I had a nice little corner suite that they gave me. And I said, look, come down and have di- dinner in my room. And so we'd order something from downstairs, it would arrive.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  And I called Doug up and I'd say, dinner's here, I said, come down, I said, Below Dex is about to start.

• 42:06Jessie Ware?

  Did you watch Below Dex?

• 42:08Speaker 03

  So we watched that and then we went Marriage at First Sight Australia.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 42:13Jessie Ware?

  Amazing.

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Then we watched Naked Attraction and I'd never seen anything like it in my life.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Real Housewives? Or you draw a line there?

• 42:23Speaker 03

  I draw a line, you know. Um, and we, we would sit and eat dinner, watching reality TV.

• 42:33Jessie Ware?

  Do you still watch reality TV or does it, is it kind of, you know, brings back trauma of being stuck with Doug in the daughter stuff?

• 42:40Speaker 03

  No, I don't.

• 42:41Jessie Ware?

  Before we let you go.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:43Jessie Ware?

  Which we don't want to let you go because we're loving your company.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:47Jessie Ware?

  Um.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  And you've eh eh, you've eaten your whole dinner without nothing to front.

• 42:51Jessie Ware?

  I know, well done. And, and you, Lenny, that's a first.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  That's a first, but I've got more.

• 42:57Jessie Ware?

  No, but that's where it usually lands.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Chance of catching stuff.

• 43:00Speaker 03

  A little more front.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Oh, I've got a lot of front, Gary.

• 43:04Jessie Ware?

  Um, before we, um, before we leave you, would you be able to give us a nostalgic taste?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  I thought you were going to say a fart there.

• 43:12Jessie Ware?

  No, I was gonna ask for that after, actually.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Oh, Christ, he's.

• 43:16Jessie Ware?

  Miriam Margulies came on and she did a fart without, you know, it wasn't a performance. I found it hysterical because.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Forcing them out.

• 43:24Jessie Ware?

  I was gonna ask about a nostalgic taste.

• 43:25Speaker 02

  Okay, then.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:27Jessie Ware?

  Which feels really gross now that we're talking about farts, but, um, nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere happy or sad. Or smell.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  Few years back, I went to the London Transport Museum.

• 43:44Jessie Ware?

  Oh, I hear that's re- that's supposed to be quite good.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  It's fantastic.

• 43:48Jessie Ware?

  Right. Were you taking a grandchild or you just fancied it?

• 43:52Speaker 03

  I think I just fancied it.

• 43:53Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  I think I was in Covent Garden.

• 43:55Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 43:56Speaker 03

  I just thought, oh, there it is, right there. And, you know, it's the old underground and how they built the underground and how they tunneled and. Oh, it's full of wonderful things. But I got on an old bus and went upstairs on a double decker.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  From when I was a kid, I would, you know, late, late, like nineteen sixty-two.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Would it have the wooden floors still?

• 44:34Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 44:35Speaker 03

  And you could still smell the tobacco because you could smoke upstairs. And it took me, it was, I was a bit blindsided by it. I just thought, like, God, you know, and memories started sort of rushing back. But isn't it odd that the breeze or the wind will catch something? And when you least expect it, you get danger, you get like a thi- you know, you get a memory. And it's just something that, whatever that is, it's carried for that split second on the, on the breeze or the. Um, I guess there's certain tastes as, as, as well.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  But there's nothing like, you talk about favourite food, um.

• 45:29Speaker 03

  What can be? Eggs and bacon. And a bit of fried bread. And a cup of tea. I mean.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  From a greasy spoon.

• 45:41Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  You need to open one up in Palm Springs.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  My mum wanted to open one. I moved my mum out to California. I think that's what kept her alive for so long. And she loved it, made lots of friends, always went out. My mother would say to me, oh god. Oh, you never know. I was at dinner last night with Peter Falk.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Colombo.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  And I'd go, Peter Falk, I love Peter Falk. I've never met Peter. How the fuck did you end up with Peter Falk in a, in a restaurant? And she, and she would like talk about people that she'd run into. She lived a life. She had her own. Thing in LA. Go. She lived in an apartment in Beverly Hills. And she had this fantasy. That, um. She wanted to uh uh have a double decker bus and turn it into a fish and chip shop.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Oh, I love that.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  And park it up. You know, on Ventura Boulevard or something in the, in the valley. And Kay's Fish and Chips was her. This was, this was her fantasy. What, what, what you got then?

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Tell each other our fortunes.

• 46:53Speaker 03

  Okay, oh lovely.

• 46:54Jessie Ware?

  And then also before you go, I really want you to do a fuck off to me and a fuck off to Lenny.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  You know, lamb style.

• 47:02Jessie Ware?

  Gary, what's your fortune say?

• 47:05Speaker 03

  My fortune says subtle flatulence are sw- no.

• 47:11Speaker 03

  Subtle influences are swirling around you today.

• 47:17Jessie Ware?

  Is that it?

• 47:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:18Jessie Ware?

  Hmm. I don't know if that's positive or negative.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Mine is a light heart carries you through all the hard times.

• 47:26Jessie Ware?

  Oh, that must be me. I'm the light heart. And then my one is if you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing. You're right. Okay, these are crap. What does that fucking mean?

• 47:40Speaker 03

  So, you.

• 47:41Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Fuck off. And you. You can fuck off as well.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Darling.

• 48:06Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  They say don't meet your heroes.

• 48:08Jessie Ware?

  But we just did.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  And he was even more fabulous than I thought he could be.

• 48:14Jessie Ware?

  That was one of my favourite episodes.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 48:17Jessie Ware?

  He was such fun. He tells a good story. The story about John Hurt's scarf was just really beautiful.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  It was moving. He's very warm.

• 48:29Jessie Ware?

  Really warm. Loved you. Had a giggle with you.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think he needs a cleaner though.

• 48:33Jessie Ware?

  Maybe you could be his cleaner.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  Maybe I could.

• 48:35Jessie Ware?

  You've just been going with your vanish stick on the floor because the...

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Oh, it's gone.

• 48:40Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Ish. Do you think his hair's long?

• 48:44Jessie Ware?

  For Jackson.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  For Jackson or he likes it long?

• 48:47Jessie Ware?

  He's always had a good hair, like mop of hair. I remember in the 90s, he had the kind of flop.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  Do you think it's because he lives in America now and he drives a big truck and...

• 48:57Jessie Ware?

  We don't know if he drives a big truck, actually.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  I just wondered because the hair goes with it.

• 49:00Jessie Ware?

  I think your fantasies of Gary Oldman's life in Palm Springs are becoming very vivid.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  I wonder if he'd ever play a cowboy?

• 49:07Jessie Ware?

  Well, we'll have to ask him if we ever get him round to New Cross.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're going to try and get him there.

• 49:13Jessie Ware?

  Thank you so much to Sir Gary Oldman for coming on Table Manners and ordering the food, which was delicious.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Delicious. I think it might be my new favourite place.

• 49:25Jessie Ware?

  You just have to come to the door just to eat it, but sure.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Be fabulous.

• 49:28Jessie Ware?

  It was really delicious. You can watch the new season of Slow Horses, season five, on Apple TV Plus right now. He's being brilliantly Jackson Lamb.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Isn't it interesting though? He finds Ho annoying too.

• 49:42Jessie Ware?

  Well, no, the character.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  I know, Ho. Not the person.

• 49:46Jessie Ware?

  Okay, fine. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next week.

• 50:12Speaker 00

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