164: How to Turn Hard Seasons Into Your Biggest Breakthrough | Ken Rideout

Ken Rideout returns to the podcast to talk about his new book, Everything You Want Is on the Other Side of Hard, and the life experiences that shaped it. We discuss his rise from addiction and adversity to sobriety, business success, and a 2:28 marathon, plus his recent Austin Half Marathon win at 54. This conversation explores discipline, faith, identity, risk, and what it takes to build a meaningful life on the other side of hard. CHAPTERS: 00:00 Intro 01:30 The Other Side of Hard 02:58 Winning the Austin Half at 54 05:49 From Addiction to Endurance 07:46 Leaving Wall Street, Starting Over 12:04 The Marathon Breakthrough 15:41 Loving the Process, Not Just PRs 18:54 Family, Roots, and Perspective 23:38 Breaking Out of Your Environment 27:06 Insecurity, Recovery, and Growth 29:24 Marriage, Fatherhood, and Real Life 31:56 Cancer Scare and Perspective Shift 36:28 Faith, Weakness, and Identity 43:41 You Are More Than Performance 53:26 Build the Life You Want ORDER KEN'S BOOK HERE: https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Want-Other-Side-Hard/dp/1668087057 ORDER MY BOOK HERE: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Go-One-More-Intentional-Life-Changing/dp/1637746210 FOLLOW: Become a BPN member FOR FREE - Unlock 25% off FOR LIFE ⁠ https://www.bareperformancenutrition.com/collections/performance-nutrition IG: ⁠instagram.com/nickbarefitness/⁠ YT: ⁠youtube.com/@nickbarefitness This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered legal [health or profession] advice. Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN) is not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice. This podcast may not be republished without the written consent of Bare Performance Nutrition (BPN)

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Nick Bare?

  Today on the show, returning guest, Ken Wright Out.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me. I just want to say before we start how much I appreciate you like writing this book and then having to go out and do promo and ask friends like yourself to have me on the show. It's like by far much harder than writing the actual book. So I just want you to know how much I appreciate you allowing me to share my journey, my details of my book and everything else with your audience. I don't take it for granted and I thank you sincerely.

• 0:35Nick Bare?

  No, I appreciate that. I mean, I just got done in this past year with the whole book process, writing, publishing, PR, doing the tour. So I feel you. It's a, it's, it's truly a marathon.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Well, I'd also like to say that a big part of the, a big reason why this book actually came to fruition in part is because of you and people like you that allowed me to come on when, you know, I couldn't get arrested. No one knew who I was and you allowed me to come on and share my story and it resonated with so many of your fans that have, that I feel like I'm part of that tribe. Like we're all kind of, like I was telling you, when I walk into your facility here at BPN, I'm like, I feel comfortable. I feel like I'm with my people and being, have, being able to share my journey with your people really allowed the, the book to become a reality because it read, my story resonated with so many of your tribe members. So.

• 1:28Nick Bare?

  Absolutely. So the, the book is called The Other Side of Hard.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Yep. Everything You Want is on the Other Side of Hard.

• 1:35Nick Bare?

  When does it launch? When's it, when's it going live?

• 1:37Speaker 01

  March 10th.

• 1:39Nick Bare?

  Okay, it's coming up.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41Nick Bare?

  How's the, the PR efforts been so far? How do you feel about it?

• 1:45Speaker 01

  I think that the book is excellent without sounding arrogant. Um, the reviews I've gotten, I got a great one from Publishers Weekly. I just shared on Instagram. The feedback has been incredible. I've got some awesome blurbs on there from Andrew Huberman, Reggie Miller, Gabby Reese, Dustin Boria, like just some of my like really good friends. And I feel super confident about it. The PR stuff is hard, you know, when a show like doesn't want to have you on, you're like, oh my God, I'm so offended. But people like yourself and Rich Roll that have agreed to have me on, it's been um, super rewarding and humbling to have such good friends that support this stuff. You know, when you, when you put your work out there in the world, you're just like, man, I hope people like this. And you just never know

• 2:29Speaker 01

  what to expect. And I tend to always think, be a little bit, I always hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. So I'm like, oh, what if people hate it? So it's been a, it's definitely been an emotional roller coaster.

• 2:40Nick Bare?

  No, I get it. I'm glad to support. Throughout the conversation, I want to talk about like what it means. You know, everything you want is on the other side of hard, what that means to you, and the way that I perceive it, and what that means to me as well. But before we get there, uh, let's set the stage a little bit. This past weekend, Austin Half Marathon, I mean, BPN and myself were there in a meaningful way. One course nutrition sponsor, expo, shakeout run. But you threw down with a one hour, 15 minute, 53 second half marathon to 548 minute per mile pace. Uh, number one in your age group, you're going to turn 55 years old in about three

• 3:24Nick Bare?

  months. Oh, okay, yeah, about three months. Um, what's your, your PR for the half marathon?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  110.

• 3:31Nick Bare?

  110?

• 3:32Speaker 01

  110 high. Well, I ran 110 high on a, on a very difficult course in Nashville in 21 or 22, when I was 51 or 50 or 51. But last year here at the other Austin Half Marathon, the kind of net downhill with a tailwind, I ran, uh, I think my official time was like 111 in a few seconds, but my watch registered it at like 110 55.

• 3:58Nick Bare?

  Okay.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  That was a downhill, downhill tailwind. I mean, it was perfect conditions, but I was in a little bit better shape than I was this past weekend.

• 4:07Nick Bare?

  How would you rate the Austin Marathon course?

• 4:10Speaker 01

  Dude, hardest, one of the harder half marathon courses that I've run, um, just given the fact that it, it was probably similar to Nashville, but it Nashville wasn't, was, was freezing cold and I always run super well in the freezing cold, like gloves, long sleeve shirt. And it was a little bit warm, um, on Saturday, but I also, to be fair, like I've trained for like five weeks. I mean, anyone who follows me know I, I run 10 miles a day, every single day. So I'm, I always am like fit on a relative basis, but as you know, there's a big difference between being fit and being ready to race.

• 4:42Nick Bare?

  Right.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Like running seven 30 to eight minute miles for 10 miles is a far cry from running my PR is like 522 per mile for 13 miles. So the other thing that about that is you're out there for a lot longer, but the suffering is like double what it normally is if you're in good shape. So you're running faster than you might think, oh, it's harder to run that fast. No, for me it was much harder to run 115 with the shit, with the conditioning that I had.

• 5:07Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 5:08Nick Bare?

  Yeah. We were talking about this a little bit yesterday. Um, and I'd love for you to just kind of share briefly, like your evolution and improvement in terms of running over the years, because I think a lot of people would look at you and think, oh, this guy in his teens and twenties and thirties was running two 15, two 20 marathons. But that's not the case.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:32Nick Bare?

  And I love that you shared with me yesterday, you know, you didn't even hire a coach.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:38Nick Bare?

  Until you were down close to like two hours, 30 minutes.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:42Nick Bare?

  In the marathon, right? So what did that, that running evolution look like? And how much faster have you gone over the last two decades?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I I was always like, you know, run a few miles to stay in shape like a normal person, like like a normal like fit guy. I boxed, I lifted weights, I tried to run a little bit, you know, five miles would be or six miles would be considered a long run. If I ran a ten K and was even close to seven minute miles, I would be psyched. So I mean, I wasn't a bad runner, but I never ran competitively at all. And then from about twenty eight to thirty eight ish, I was a full time drug addict, taking opioids twenty four seven around the clock, you know, thirty to sixty Percocets every single day, you know, save for a week here or there. I tried to get sober and then realize how deep in the hole I was and go right back to using. And when I got sober in around

• 6:32Speaker 01

  two thousand and ten, that's when I started to lean into endurance sports. And at that point, I was thirty nine, um, yeah, thirty nine. And so really, when I was in my forties, I started to like, late thirties, early forties, I started to get into endurance sports. And I did the Ironman in Hawaii a few times, like, like any, like you, I I did a couple of triathlons, got the shit kicked out of me. And I was like, man, these guys shouldn't be able to beat me. I need to figure this out. And I just became obsessed with everything, like the bike, the transitions and and started dialing it in. And as I was, obviously, I was started to run a lot doing that and doing the Ironman stuff, but wasn't really

• 7:11Speaker 01

  good at running on a relative basis. And in two thousand and sixteen, I had my fourth child, we moved to LA and I was living in the Santa Monica Mountains in Pacific Palisades and and I had four kids in Ironman training, as you know, I mean, I had babies, I had, my kids were five, four, two and new, like, we had our hands full. And it was just, you know, Ironman can be a super selfish pursuit. And around that time, I was like, I just have to focus on running out of necessity because it's not fair to be gone for five or six hours every Saturday and Sunday.

• 7:46Nick Bare?

  What were you doing for work at that point?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  So I I was a I was a trader on Wall Street for twenty plus years, like trading, first I traded commodities and I ran commodities, sales and trading for all of Europe and Asia for Kenner Fitzgerald. Then after the um after the fall of Enron, I came back to New York after nine eleven and took over the credit derivative business for Cantor Fitzgerald. During nine eleven, I worked at Cantor. I was in London the week of the day of the terror attacks. And we lost all the people, obviously. And I credit derivatives was like the most lucrative trading desk at Cantor Fitzgerald. There were people there making a fortune. And they asked me to come over, come back to New York and take over that credit derivative business. And I knew nothing about credit derivatives and it's super complex financial instruments.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  But like, like, just like with endurance sports, I just fake it to fake it till you make it. I just figured it out and um started to have a really good run there and was just super lucky to fortunate to have that opportunity. I was sober, but I was struggling and I was commuting in from Westchester into New York City. And I was like, this is not, this is not sustainable. Like, I'm killing myself. The traffic is killing me. I didn't want to take the train. So I was driving an hour each way in heavy traffic. So we moved to LA and I met a guy out there called Jack McDowell, who changed my life. He had an asset management firm called the Palisades Group. We were riding bikes together. And I was basically begging him to let me run business development. Like, let me raise institutional capital for him to manage.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  He didn't have anyone doing it. He just had like word of mouth and referrals from existing clients. But we, we did something like that was highly unlikely that we would be able to do. And we did it and it was massively successful. So that allowed me, and that changed my life because then it allowed me to work my own schedule and focus and train and do the things that I wanted to do. And a lot at that same time is when I was like really focusing on running. So even when I was working at the asset manager, I would get up every morning and run ten miles in the mountains every single day. Twelve hundred feet of elevation gain. It was brutal. But it was gorgeous. I was running in the hills above Pacific Palisades. So on one side, you could see the ocean. On the other side, you could see the city of LA.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Not a single day went by that I was like, that I didn't think to myself like, I can't believe this is my life. Dude, I would see coyotes. One day I was running up there and I came face to face with a like full adult mountain lion. So I'm focused on running and I start running some local races. So Like five Ks, half marathons? Half marathons, little bit longer. I never liked five Ks and ten Ks. I mean, I did run a bunch of those, but really the focus was on half marathons and marathons. So I started, I set a goal. So when I moved to LA, I had just That year before or the year I moved there, I had just run like a two fifty eight at New York. And I was like so happy, but I thought I could run faster.

• 10:37Nick Bare?

  And how old were you?

• 10:39Speaker 01

  This was in sixteen, so I guess I was like forty five.

• 10:42Nick Bare?

  Okay.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, forty five, forty six.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  It's in two thousand sixteen, yeah, about forty six.

• 10:49Nick Bare?

  It's about ten, about ten years ago.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  When I started to like focus, yeah. So when I get to LA, I ran the LA Marathon, I think the second year I was there and I um, so maybe seventeen or eighteen. And I ran um,

• 11:02Speaker 01

  two forty or two forty four, one or the other, but I was like, that was when I was like, whoa. Maybe it was two forty where I was like, oh my god, like I I have some potential, like now I'm obsessed. So I ran the Malibu Half Marathon, the first year I was there, came in second, and then the next year I was there, I won. But I mean, I won, I ran like one seventeen. Then the next year I went back, an Eritrean guy beat me. And then the next year I went back again, ran one twelve and won it again in in in the Malibu Half Marathon. And not a huge race, but still it was a cool race. And then in two thousand and twenty or twenty one, I think it might have been right at the beginning, right when, weeks before Covid kicked off, if that was twenty one, I ran the Pasadena Half Marathon, it was like eight thousand people, it was a big race.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  And it finished in the Rose Bowl on TV, and that was the first real big race that I won where I was like, holy shit, I'm gonna, like as I'm running into the Rose Bowl, I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna win. And there's people there and there's a finished tape and newscast and uh, and I won and I was like, oh my god, I did it, I won and that's, at the same time, I was like folk trying desperately to break two thirty in the marathon. And I had run,

• 12:13Speaker 01

  that that year that I won Pa- the year that I won Malibu, the first time I ran the Tucson Marathon, which is a net downhill. I was trying to find a fast one. And I ran two thirty three. And again, I didn't have a coach then and I was just running ten miles a day and on the weekends I'd do a twenty miler progressive run, just take off at like seven minute pace and try to get down as fast as I could for the last like five miles of a twenty miler. And that was my whole running strategy, zero track workouts, zero speed workout, no structured like tempo runs, intervals, fart like nothing. Just when I felt good in the trails, I'd run fast and all the miles except the long run were always in the trails. So up and down huge mountains. It makes a big difference.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I was strong. I was super strong. But I never really had like outright speed and I know people listen like that's pretty fast, but like in a five K I was never running like five minute miles. Like they just, I just couldn't get to that like next gear. But, so when I got to two thirty-three, I'm like, okay, I'm there, I'm gonna do this now. But I was also like in my late forties, so I'm like, I don't know, is that the fastest I can run? And then I ran two thirty-four at C I M. And then I ran Boston in two thirty-five. No, Boston was a hard course, but I was like, I can't break through. And that's when I hired a coach, Mario Fraoli, in like, I wanna say two thousand and eighteen, the summer of two thousand and eighteen. And I had been hosting a podcast with Teddy Atlas called

• 13:38Speaker 01

  The Fight with Teddy Atlas and he trained this Ukrainian kid called Alex Vazdik, who was the W B C light heavyweight champ of the world, former Olympic bronze medalist. And he was fighting Arter Bederbiev in October in Philly. And Teddy asked me basically to be like the assistant trainer. So for eight weeks in the summer of eighteen, I lived with the fighter and Teddy and a chef and I mean, in like a training camp that was literally like a rocky training camp. I don't think I went out to eat for eight weeks. I didn't go home. I didn't see my kids. We trained for eight weeks. But while I was there in the training camp, before we would go train at like a noon time every day, I would get up and run along the Scullykill River, which was flat. And I mean, I put in, I had

• 14:22Speaker 01

  a coach, I put in structured, hard workouts. In that December, so I trained there from August to October, in that December, I went to C I M and ran two twenty-eight low. Oh, wow. Yeah. How'd that feel? Oh. Unbelievable. There's nothing like racing the last 10K of a marathon and I was racing.

• 14:42Nick Bare?

  Is that your, is that your PR?

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:44Nick Bare?

  To this day?

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I've run, I've run 229 like five or six times since I turned 50 and I did that race. Um, I was either 48 or 49, but at that race, I remember seeing my coach like at Mario at like 20 miles, then at 23 and I was like, I remember at the first one at 20, I'm like, dude, I'm on one. I feel so good. And he's like, keep going. And you know, at that point you're just in a sprint, basically. Even if it doesn't look like sprinting in your mind, you're sprinting for the last like four or five miles. And it was awesome.

• 15:14Nick Bare?

  It felt good.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Oh, like anything, you see like 228 in like 10 seconds. I'm like, oh, I couldn't find 11 more seconds. You know, it's like never quite good enough. I never like crossed the finish line. I'm like, when I won the Gobi March, which we can talk about, I felt good about that because I had no point of reference for time. I was just like, I crushed everyone uh by 90 minutes. But all the marathons, I always look and be like, could I have gotten down to the next like big figure faster?

• 15:40Nick Bare?

  Yeah. Do you think at this point, you know, almost being 55 years old, you can break your PR in the marathon and half marathon?

• 15:50Nick Bare?

  Do you feel you're still getting stronger?

• 15:51Speaker 01

  I don't think I could do it in the half marathon because there's just, there's something about the speed is so, is so much harder than the endurance. I think if I like obsessed and just did nothing else except train for the marathon, I might be able to get close. Cause like just two years ago, I, when I won the 50 and over age group world championships, I was 52. I ran 229 low. So I was like a minute off a PR. I mean, I had done so. It's hard to say like I, I never, we were talking about this yesterday, like I never feel like I optimized my nutrition. I always eat healthy, but I never really optimized and tracked and did all the little things. I never, I've never, I mean, I've had like three massages in my life. I don't stretch.

• 16:33Speaker 01

  There's a lot of things that I don't do that I think I could find some more time. But again, like, like I was saying to you before we started, like some things feel like work and some things feel like fun. And right now, running is like, at times it's work, but.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  That's something I enjoy. If I had to start doing real data analysis and the things that I don't really like, like focusing on the nutrition and the stretching, I could probably get a little faster, but then it becomes like a serious full-time job.

• 17:02Nick Bare?

  I mean, it's a really good point there. There's a cost that comes with pursuing certain goals. And I think we all have this personal responsibility.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 17:16Nick Bare?

  To be honest with ourselves, identify if I take this new path, will I lose the passion and love for it?

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:25Nick Bare?

  And then does it just become work? And then it's so much harder to accomplish because you're doing it just for the end result, not the process anymore.

• 17:34Speaker 01

  And I also feel like if I were to do that, it would be performative and it would be for other people, not for me. Like, I'm good with what I've done. Do I think I could? Yes. I mean, gun to my head, yeah, I think I can do it. But do I want to? And like, the sacrifice it would take. My kids are getting older. My wife certainly wouldn't be happier for me to take any more time training. I try to like inconvenience them as little as possible with my training and my own selfish pursuits. But as I've said many times, like, my health and wellness is my number one priority above all else. Because without my health, mental and physical, I'm useless to my family. So like, to a certain extent, they understand dad's gotta do what dad's gotta do. Not to the point where I'm missing

• 18:14Speaker 01

  like, big events for the kids, but, but they know that like, I'm not normal. Like, I have, I'm a drug addict. If I don't keep my mind focused and do the things I need to do, I've gotta keep the train on the track. And some of that sometimes can look like selfishness to the outside world. But to me, it's like, man, I have to do this. Like, it's not like I'm missing events because I'm playing video games. I'm like, listen, I have to, I have this obligation to myself. This discipline and dedication to this journey that I'm on has changed our lives. And it's allowed me to be home for big events. And it's allowed me to be around my family a lot. So to neglect that would be almost irresponsible.

• 18:52Nick Bare?

  It keeps you grounded. So you've obviously accomplished a lot in your lifetime and your book talks a lot about it. Uh, family issues, growing up, addiction. Um, obviously you talked about the business side and when things were going great, they, they collapsed and fell apart. You've achieved, I mean, amazing feats physically. I'm curious though, of all the things you've accomplished, what are you most proud of and why?

• 19:26Speaker 01

  I grew up in the inner city, out just outside of like a city next to Boston and Cambridge called Somerville. It was a very much like an inner city, like city environment, but it felt small because I was at times felt like I was in a house of horrors, living with my mother's brother, my uncle, who was a lifelong heroin addict and his buddies always hanging on. It was just a complete house of chaos. And for, for context, I have a brother who's 11 months younger, who's never had a job. He's only been in and out of prison and had like sold drugs and done like illegal activities. And he grew up in the same conditions I grew up in. He just chose a different path. He took the path of least resistance and just went with the people that were like taking the easy way

• 20:09Speaker 01

  out. And I just never felt connected to any of those people. So I couldn't wait to get out of there. But when I look back-

• 20:14Nick Bare?

  Are you still, are you still in contact with your, your family, your brother?

• 20:17Speaker 01

  I, I see my dad occasionally because my, my, his, his wife is awesome and my, my wife is, uh, connected with my dad and my, um, and his wife and, and the kids get along really well with them. And, and I talk to him, but I don't really talk to my mom. And for years I didn't really talk to my brother. I was just, I've always been angry at him because it was like, you know, as a kid, it was embarrassing. He was always in fights, always getting in trouble. And I was the polar opposite. I was like a good kid in high school. I got along with the principals. I was like, you know, I wasn't a nerd, but I was very much like a teacher's pet type. Like I liked people. And, um,

• 20:55Speaker 01

  When I was writing the book, I

• 21:00Speaker 01

  I had anger for him, but in the book, you'll see, if anyone who reads it, you'll see, I realized like, man, this kid has like some mental health issues and they were undiagnosed and my parents did nothing to help him and they probably just made things worse. But when I wrote the book, the editors and the fact checkers were like, we can't find evidence of or records of your brother being in prison. Are you sure he was in prison before we write this in the like description of the book? I'm like, yeah, he was multiple times. So I send them a text and we like would talk like once every couple of years on text. And I was like, hey, what years were you in so and so prison? And what's your cell number? Cause I was just gonna call him. He goes, I was in Billericca this year, that your cell number was J11.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  I'm like, no, your effing cell phone number, you dope, not your prison cell number. So anyway, I called him and I was like, you, you, you, like, I'm not imagining this, right? He's like, no, no, I was in Billericca twice. I was in this one one time. Um, two years ago, I did a year in this place. I'm like, you were in prison two years ago? I'm like, for what? He's like, oh, crazy trumped up kidnapping charges, you know, I got in a fight with my girlfriend. I'm like, you were in jail for kidnapping? I'm like, get your shit together. But anyway, that was, um, so I'm in touch with them sparingly, but you know, a lot of times now I feel tremendous sympathy, whereas it used to be incredible anger. Um, but when I look at all the things that I've done, what I'm most proud of is probably

• 22:27Speaker 01

  number one, getting out of that situation that I have another stepbrother who's eight months, who's eight years younger, who's in a similar situation as my, um, my full brother. That he's, I think he has serious mental health issues, but also has addiction problems. And, um, but when I think about getting out of there and then getting sober, like, so it was incredibly painful to then find myself in this hole of addiction, knowing that I had nothing but contempt for these people I grew up around. And then to find myself in the same situation, but it was so desperate that when I got sober, I was like, I'm gonna kill myself or get sober, cause I'm not gonna live like this. I don't wanna be a loser. And it almost did kill me. I mean, the story in the book, when my wife finds me unconscious and I was like,

• 23:10Speaker 01

  as I wake up, I'm like contemplating jumping off the balcony and I, cause I was just so disgusted and embarrassed with myself. But I obviously pulled it together and, uh,

• 23:22Speaker 01

  To me, when I think about some of the running and the physical stuff relative to the real difficulties I've been through, which is all emotional, is pales in comparison. I'd much rather be physically uncomfortable than emotionally uncomfortable.

• 23:34Nick Bare?

  Yeah, it's, it all becomes relative.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:38Nick Bare?

  At that point, what is it that, and I'm sure it's a bunch of different things,

• 23:46Nick Bare?

  but like, can you, can you pinpoint to maybe a few things or one thing that allowed you to exit that previous life? Because like, for so many people, you know, when you're born into it and you're surrounded by it, it's so hard to even see the other side.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:05Nick Bare?

  Like, the, the greener pastures. It's like, I'm in this and there's no way to escape.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:09Nick Bare?

  What allowed you to, to have that escape route?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good question, because I felt that as a kid, I'm like, I had, you know, I, I didn't have rich friends by any means. I know there were towns like near us where we'd play other towns in hockey and we'd drive through their town. I'm like, wow, it's beautiful here. Look at the house. Oh my God. It was crazy to like fantasize about living like that. But I had no mentor. I had no point of reference to think I could do any of that. I, I always use the analogy that if you told me to go to New York and work on Wall Street, which is what I would eventually do, I would have thought I'd have a better chance of being an astronaut, like, which was crazy because I wasn't a great student. And I was never like academically, like thriving academically. But I knew I wanted to go to college and I don't know where it came from, but I just knew I wanted to get out of there. But I thought, oh, when I got, when I graduated high school, I started

• 24:58Speaker 01

  working at the prison as a correction officer and I'm going to college. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna graduate from college and I'm gonna be like a, a probation officer or a counselor at the prison and just like lock in with like, you know, a hundred grand a year and benefits. And I was like, And that's fine, like for people that are doing that, I love it. Like, everyone is on their own journey. I don't mean to poo poo anyone else's dreams, but I realized quickly, like, I need to be in a position where the ceiling is limitless. Meaning, I'll take all the risk, and the downside is, I make no money, but the upside is, I can make as much as I can make. It's I eat what I kill. And anytime I've been in a job where my compensation is based on my performance, I've always like overachieved.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Although going into it, I've always been like, you know, preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. I'm like, okay, if I do this bare minimum, then I can at least get enough that I know I need to survive. But I've always achieved more than that, but that mindset never leaves me. And like to the point where I'd say to my wife, like, oh, I did this deal. Thank God, I'm good for the rest of the year. She's like, it's January. She's like, why don't you think you're gonna be able to get anything else done? I'm like, that's just, um, she's like, you've done it every single year. And every year, you've like done the things that you set out, but every year, you're like, oh, almost like, that's the best. I'm never gonna be able to do that again. Like with winning a race.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  I won a race and it's like every time I do well at a race, I'm like, thank God, that's probably the last one I'll do well at. And then eventually you get to the point where you're like, no, no, I'm consistently doing this, but it's hard to like. I feel like once I start believing that I'm really good at something, the work ethic starts to drop off. So it's almost like subconsciously, I refuse to let my guard down. So as a kid, I was just like, I, I know that I need to, if I wanna be successful, I gotta separate myself from this situation and start putting myself around the right people. So I always tried to like be friends with people that I thought had the things, the characteristics and the traits that I wanted.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Literally, I just, subconsciously, I knew to try to surround myself with winners and stay away from the losers.

• 27:06Nick Bare?

  Where do you think that mindset comes from? Where it's like you accomplish something and then you tell yourself, this is it, like I'm never gonna accomplish.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  I was lucky.

• 27:17Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I was lucky.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:18Nick Bare?

  Where do you think this, I guess you can call it almost like lack of confidence?

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:23Nick Bare?

  Comes from?

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Prior to being addicted to drugs, I never had like any lack of self-confidence. I always believed I could do any, like I always had real solid self-belief and self-esteem. And I think going through the addiction really did a number on my psyche and caused me to feel a lot of insecurities. And in a weird way, even now, when I think about it consciously, it's almost like a defense mechanism that if I refuse to let myself think that I'm better than I am, I can never get disappointed. Meaning, I'm not holding myself in such high regard. I tried to present myself always as humble because I'm insecure. I don't want someone on the internet to be like, this guy thinks he's better than everyone, F him.

• 28:09Speaker 01

  And that insecurity, I think, stems from the addiction journey that I just haven't been able to like, get through. That's one thing that I'm definitely like trying to work on is like, stop worrying about what other people thinks. Every time, every time I see Rich Roll, he's like, when are you gonna stop worrying about what other people think about you? And I was like, Rich, I desperately wanna not care what anyone thinks. And I actually went to, um, I write about this in the book as well, two years ago, I went to a place in, um, outside of Nashville called On-Site Workshops. And it's for, if anyone knows, like the Hoffman Institute or Bridges. It's like, uh- I've heard such good things about that, actually. And it was life-changing. Steph and I were, were looking into it. Dude, life-changing. I think, I've told my wife, I think there are couples there going through it as a, as couples.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  I think it's, you don't need to be in a bad spot to go there. I think that you can always improve. And I, I remember seeing the older couples that were there and thinking like, I was there for myself because I needed more than my wife. My wife is like incredibly emotionally healthy. But I remember thinking and talking to these people because you're in a lot of group sessions together. It's like a trauma healing center. Um, so it's like intense, intensive therapy for like five days, no phones, no distractions. So you're- When you're not in these therapeutic sessions, you're just hanging with the people. And I remember saying to one of the older couples, I'm like, I'm so like, I don't know if proud of you is the right description, but I'm like, I'm so happy for you that you guys are like, yo, marriages take work. If you just think you're gonna show up and your marriage is gonna be awesome and you're never gonna have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Egos get in the way, lots of things cloud the picture, kids. You know, when you're dating your wife and you don't have children, like you're like hanging with your best friend. You introduce children into the, into the mix and now all of a sudden you're running like a deadly serious business together. And it's like all the things that were fun and cool, sleep in on the weekends, go here, go there. On the, you know, let's just shoot, let's go to Bahamas this weekend. All of a sudden now you're like, can you wake up with the kids tonight? Like I've been up the last three nights all night. One of the kids is sick and it's like, holy cow. This like, if you don't, if you're not connected with your partner, that can get ugly in a hurry. Which is why so many marriages I think end in divorce.

• 30:18Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Because your life changes in ways that you can't imagine. I love having kids. It's the greatest thing. But the minute you have the kids, the life that you had is over. It's never coming back because now you have someone for the next five years that can't take a crap, take a bite of food, a sip of milk or do anything without you. You see every single thing that that kid does for at least five years. And while yes, it's rewarding and it's excellent and it's life changing, it's just, the minute those kids arrive, the new next chapter of your life starts and there's no going back to the old one for better or worse. You know, and, and if you're not prepared for that, it can be challenging.

• 30:58Nick Bare?

  I was actually thinking about this in my run this morning in preparation for this conversation. Like everything you want is on the other side of hard. And right now Steph and I have two young kids. We have a three and a half year old daughter and a one and a half year old son. And a lot of days are hard.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:16Nick Bare?

  Are challenging. But you forget about all the hard times and challenging moments when you're sitting with your kids and everyone's laughing and you're putting them down to sleep at night and you think about the future and it's like you you can't get to the joyful fruitful moments without the hard like you need the hard for the satisfaction to come. It's on the other side though.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:38Nick Bare?

  Of those hard moments. I was thinking about that on my run this morning. I think so many people think about hard things in terms like I gotta stand up for a marathon and I gotta go do this race and I gotta push myself physically immensely and emotionally. It's like just going through life.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:53Nick Bare?

  It's gonna be really hard for everyone.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  I'll tell you this, nothing is harder and I'm sure you know this, nothing is harder than seeing your children and recently my wife had breast cancer. Nothing prepares you for seeing your children and your partner sick. Like my youngest son was throwing up for like three straight days overnight and when you see, you know how it is when you feel like you got food poisoning or something and you literally feel like you're gonna die, right? You can't stand up, you're just throwing up, you're like, it's coming out of both ends and you're just like completely helpless. And my wife is like so good at being a caretaker and um my youngest son is so like emotionally intelligent and he's like as he's throwing up and like crying and he's a mess, he's 10, he's like, thanks mom, thanks for taking care of me. I love you so much mom. Cause he's just so helpless and realizes that his

• 32:40Speaker 01

  mom is like going to do anything to like help him get better. And then seeing my wife get sick, man, that was of all that again, a- a- along the lines of all the difficult things I've done, that was one of the hardest things that's ever happened to me be, you know, she had best case scenario, everything's good now, but when you find out that she has cancer, when when we found out she had cancer, man, I like.

• 33:01Nick Bare?

  When was that?

• 33:03Speaker 01

  September. I wanted to die. I was like, I was almost inconsolable to the point where I was like almost felt bad for her that I was like such a blubbering idiot because I didn't want to scare her, but I was like, you hear someone has cancer, like my first thing is like dooming, like oh my God, it's a death sentence, she's gonna die. And I have four kids and it was and it it was it's, you know, she had a lump and she's like, I look at this lump and I'm like, what the hell? Almost angry. I'm like, how do you just notice that you have a lump that big in your breast?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  But she's never been sick from anything ever, no cancer in her family. So she went to the hospital, got the test. The crazy thing is, she's like, I got this lump. They're like, okay, we can get you in a mastectomy in five weeks. I'm like, I called back. I'm like, are you people insane? She has a huge lump in her breasts. Like, what do you mean five weeks? So like, oh, we can get you in four weeks. So we go. They're like, okay, oh, this needs biopsy. You know, they can't tell from the mastectomy and from the mammogram. And they do the biopsy. And then a couple of days later, she, my wife calls me, she's like, I don't know what to make of this thing though. Like, reading the lab results, it doesn't just come out and say you have cancer. It has all these like, medical terms. So she calls the thing, calls the doctor and calls me back hysterical. And she's like, I have cancer. And I was like,

• 34:13Speaker 01

  oh, my God. It was, it was horrible. Like, one of the worst. That, that day was one of the worst days of my life because I was like, I would rather have terminal cancer than have her have even a curable cancer. Yeah, I can imagine. Oh, it was so sad. And then, thank God, everything worked out. She had a mastectomy, a single mastectomy and, and now everything's good. She's cancer free. She had, like I said, best case scenario, stage one, they cut it out. And even when we were going through it, there were days like, you know, we were both a mess for a few days. And then at some point, I just looked at it and I was like, you know what? F this. We can either roll over here and die and like be victims. Or we can just get tough, be an example to the kids of how you deal with difficulties.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Suck it up and let's just, whatever the game plan is, let's just do it. And if you have to get chemo, whatever it is, we're just going to power through it because the alternative is to be weak and just let this consume us and then paint ourselves as victims. And we're not victims. This is a bump in the road and there'll be more. I call them like the hidden taxes of life. You know, like your car breaks down, you get a tax bill you didn't expect, you know? There's just things in life are gonna happen, no matter how much money you have. You know, the expression, a rich man has a million problems, a sick man has one.

• 35:29Nick Bare?

  Uh huh.

• 35:29Speaker 01

  And when you, things like that out of your control happen, you're reminded of how lucky you are. And now, I mean, every day, we, one of us will say to the other man, we're so lucky. Everyone's healthy, the kids are good. You know, you know how it is, everything could be better, yeah, could I have more of this and more of that? Sure, but like, for the most part, we have everything that we need. Which I always say, like, I have what so many, like, super rich billionaires don't have, and that's enough. I have enough, like, I, I'm good. And I feel super grateful for everything that we have, especially coming through this recent cancer thing.

• 36:02Nick Bare?

  Yeah, I can, I can imagine. I mean, Steph and I were sitting in the sauna last night. We do that every night, after we put the kids down to bed, and there's a lot of people in our lives right now with young kids.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:14Nick Bare?

  Who are having health problems.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:16Nick Bare?

  And we were just talking, like, man, we gotta be so grateful that we have healthy kids.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:21Nick Bare?

  We're healthy ourselves. And just like realizing the gratitude for that. You know, yesterday, when we were recording for your podcast, sat down and had a conversation. Uh, you mentioned that your wife takes the kids to church every Sunday.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:39Nick Bare?

  How did your wife's faith plant her, her diagnosis and how she handled that spiritually and emotionally?

• 36:46Speaker 01

  She's, she's pretty tapped into all that stuff, so, you know, she spent a lot more time, um, meditating and listening to, um, her religious podcasts, and she has like a little meditation room in the house, and she spends a lot of time in there, listening to different things, but I'm probably at the, at the place you were before you, like, surrendered to Christ. Yeah, like, uh, yeah, saved. I'm like, I go, I wanna go, I so desperately want to feel that calling that you felt, I genuinely do. Even when I saw your Bible, I'm like, oh, there's like, I don't know, I feel this like calling to like, explore this journey that, like, what you're on, because like I just said, I have enough, I have everything I need, but there is definitely, I definitely feel like

• 37:30Speaker 01

  there is like a spirituality void, and I'm being, um, naive and lazy about exploring it. And I'll go with them like a few times a year, and I love it. It's weird, man, when I walk on into this church, I wish I could remember what the name of it is in Nashville. Shawn Johnson and Andrew East go there. If anyone knows them, if they hear this, they'll like be pissed that I can't remember. Uh, but a lot of our friends go there. There's a few different branches in in Nashville and um. When I walk in, like especially at Christmas, the like pastors out there, all the like church elders or you know, the leaders of the church are out there. Everyone's pretty young there. Dude, it's like they're a magnetized to me. I walk in and they all beeline to me, shake my hand and I'm with the kids and my wife and they're saying hello to the kids.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  And even my daughter who's now fifteen, she's like, Dad, did you notice that every single one of them like felt like? Like drawn to you like a magnet? They're like, oh, there's the guy. There's the one we need to get. And I was like, yeah, did you notice that? She's like, yeah, there was almost like they were like couldn't focus on anyone except you. As soon as they saw you, they were all like, including like lead pastor was like a celebrity there, you know, it's like one of those kinds of churches.

• 38:36Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  It was uh. It was hard to deny. I was like, man. It's almost like they're like, hey, we see, we we know what you're thinking. Come on, the water's warm.

• 38:47Nick Bare?

  Well, I can um. I can relate to a lot of what you talk about in terms of. The lack of confidence and insecurity and a lot of.

• 38:59Nick Bare?

  This uh. The striving and the performance is to try to fill this this void.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:05Nick Bare?

  And I chased that pursuit for so long. And the best way I I heard it described myself. Because I now can can see the other side of it. Is that there's this. This shaped hole in our hearts and there's only one way to fill that. That hole, that void. And that's by following Christ. And we are weak. Yesterday on the podcast, we were talking about how, or I was talking about how we are weak. Individuals.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:36Nick Bare?

  And there's only one person stronger than us. So I have two pieces of scripture to share with you.

• 39:45Nick Bare?

  Because as we were talking about, I think we can find all these answers we're looking for in the Bible and scripture. It's all there.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:54Nick Bare?

  It's the truth. 2 Corinthians 12, 9. "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." So we are weak people. Means that God's strength is enough to handle any situation regardless of our own personal limitations. And God's power is most clearly displayed and fully realized when humans recognize our own limitations and we rely on Him. And scripture talks a lot about suffering. This is Romans 5, 3. This is one of my favorite lines of scripture. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings.

• 40:37Nick Bare?

  Because we know that suffering produces perseverance. Perseverance, character, and character, hope. So I think to your, your family and your wife going through this cancer diagnosis. And that is suffering.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:53Nick Bare?

  That is, that is physical, that is emotional, that is like mental suffering. Not just for your wife, but for the whole family. But if we glory in our own suffering and put all that suffering into Christ, into the Lord, it produces perseverance. Perseverance, character, and character, hope.

• 41:13Nick Bare?

  And like, I would encourage you to, to explore that, that journey that's maybe calling you to fill that void that you're feeling.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  How did you learn all this? Like I, even when I think about the Bible, I'm like, where do you even start? I open the Bible, I'm looking at it, I'm like, I'm like, might as well, it might as well be written in Chinese. I'm like, ah, I don't even know where to start.

• 41:31Nick Bare?

  Dude, I was the same way. I had Chad Wright on the podcast.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:35Nick Bare?

  A few months ago.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:37Nick Bare?

  Recently, after I gave my life to Christ. And, uh, yeah, I mean, Chad Wright.

• 41:44Nick Bare?

  He knows theology. He knows scripture. Yeah. And I was like, how much time do you spend in your Bible? He said, three hours a day, every day for the last 10 years. It's like, oh my gosh, Chad. Stud. Now, for me, like, I don't spend that much time in it. Yeah. Like, Steph and I, right now, we're doing like this Bible recap. Yeah. Which has us read a few chapters of scripture every day together. And then we can like, talk about what we're learning and what it means to us. Which is a great experience. It's through the Bible app. But there's, you know, when I first wanted to explore and I was curious and I wanted to learn more,

• 42:27Nick Bare?

  I just started in the New Testament and just started reading the Gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. There's a few resources I can share with you if you're interested. I'm definitely interested. Like, the Book of James is one of my favorites. The Book of Ecclesiastes is one of my favorites. When you say the Book of James, is it a literal book? No, it's a chapter, like a book in the Bible. So like, right now, I just open to, Isaiah is a book in the Bible. Okay. Psalm is a book in the Bible, Acts.

• 42:58Nick Bare?

  But like, the New Testament starts after Jesus Christ Yep. was born and the way that He taught and healed. And I think that there's certain books in the Bible that would really speak to you.

• 43:15Nick Bare?

  Like Ecclesiastes, for example, talks about how all this toiling we do in the world, all this work we're trying to do, that actually gets us nowhere. You know, the one place we're trying to get to, heaven, the kingdom. Yeah. All the stuff we're doing, the money we're making, the houses we're living in, none of it really matters. Yeah. So it really makes you feel small, which... In a way, produces like this confidence.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:38Nick Bare?

  Knowing that you're not alone and you can be weak because someone's stronger than us.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Since you've started leaning into the faith though, have you felt less compelled to do some of these like, I don't want to say performative and put words in your mouth, but for me, sometimes the challenges that I take on, I don't enter them thinking that they're performative, but when I look back at it objectively, or subjectively, I can be like, ah, was I doing that for me or was I just doing that to say, watch what I can do?

• 44:06Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  You know, I, how do you feel now versus previous to being saved? Like with those, with regards to those kinds of challenges?

• 44:16Nick Bare?

  It's provided me a new lens to look at these challenges through. Before, I felt like I had to do one after the other, after the other, because it's, these performances, these races, these preps were how I measured my worth.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:31Nick Bare?

  So if people are praising me and they're saying, you're doing a good job, that makes me feel good.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:37Nick Bare?

  My identity is rooted in that. I need that to live and survive. But now, I feel that I can pursue these challenges if I really want to, but it's not to please other people.

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:49Nick Bare?

  I think one of, I worked with a mentor and one of the things he was talking to me recently about was,

• 44:57Nick Bare?

  I am driven by like this performance heart, but also a pleasing heart. So like I find my, I, my worth and my identity in performance, but also pleasing other people.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:10Nick Bare?

  It's a dangerous place to be.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:12Nick Bare?

  And that's one of the things that I'm trying to work through right now is, how do I live outside of the performance heart and the pleasing heart? And it, it never necessarily gets easy, might get easier. But this whole journey, there's no finish line.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:32Nick Bare?

  And I think that's what's.

• 45:36Nick Bare?

  Reassuring, but at the same time, I think we do these preps and then we pursue these races because there is a finish line. You can do it and you can breathe like, alright, I get a little break for a little bit.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:47Nick Bare?

  Till you go into the next one.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, the one thing I respect about my peers like yourself is like being able to self-reflect and be honest with how you're feeling. There's so few, um, there's like a whole, there's like a whole group of like, um, hesitate to say motivational guys, but you know, these like people on the social media, they're always screaming about like discipline and if you wanna sell, you gotta be super aggressive. I feel like there's like almost a, a group of those kind of social media influencers that have no self-reflection. They don't have any ability to accept accountability and be honest and vulnerable and, and, and open with their emotions. It's all like hard charging and like kill, kill, kill. And I'm

• 46:30Speaker 01

  always like, those are the people I think that are like the most scared. They're so scared that they're afraid to acknowledge any like real feelings. Like most, those like super aggressive men almost are afraid to talk about real feelings.

• 46:44Nick Bare?

  I think that's performative in itself.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:46Nick Bare?

  And it's lying to themselves of, like they're trying to justify to themselves the most by justifying other people. This is the way we need to live. It's, it's drive, drive, drive, drive and neglect all your other responsibilities in life.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 47:01Nick Bare?

  I've tried that and it doesn't work really well.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  No. And listen, you can be aggr- like I, I don't think anyone would say that I'm not aggressive. I, you can be aggressive i- in the right ways, but still be like honest about who you are and understanding where that aggressiveness comes from. Actually, two people that I recently, well, one person I recently interviewed as a guest on my show, and one person who's just a friend here in town that you would absolutely love. They remind me a lot of you is Mike Posner, the singer. He's, uh, he lives here. He's super, he's really getting into his faith and, um, Walker Hayes, he's a country singer.

• 47:36Nick Bare?

  That's all you just had Walker Hayes on?

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Dude, that guy is a beautiful human being. He is such a nice guy. Thirty-six years old, he was alcoholic, working at Home Depot on the night shift, writing songs, had six children, seven child died at childbirth.

• 47:51Nick Bare?

  Oh wow.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  Got sober, rode fancy like, and now is like living, I mean, he's living his best life. He's got a giant house with a trampoline in the living room. He's like a big kid. He, everything is for his kids, but we had a similar conversation and he's just in completely open and honest with his feelings and it's just like refreshing to see guys that, and he's into hunting, he's like a guy's guy, but he's also like honest with how he feels and is like, I think when people are honest about their feelings and talk about the things that we're talking about, it's refreshing to other men who might not feel the confidence to be able to talk about how they really feel and the struggles that they're going through.

• 48:27Nick Bare?

  Yeah. What is something on a daily basis that just, uh, is like a thorn in your side that you're trying to navigate in this next chapter of life?

• 48:40Speaker 01

  Oh my God, if I go through my day and all the things that I want to do better at, I want to, I want to get more sleep, I want to, uh, get my diet right, focus more on nutrition, but in terms of thorns in my side, even when I think I have a thorn in my side, I'm like, man, the, the, the anchor that I had tied around my ankle for ten years with drug addiction will never leave me and there's not a day that goes by when I'm sober that I'm not like, I can't believe I did it. I'm so happy I don't have to carry that like anchor anymore. So in a lot of ways, when I feel like something is a thorn in my side, I try to address it. So there's nothing that I would say is a consistent thorn in my side

• 49:19Speaker 01

  other than my own internal dialogue where I sometimes would wake up and not feel positive and then I try to reflect on all the things that you hear from like the people like Andrew Huberman, like get the morning sunlight, focus on positivity, don't look at social media too early, like all these little things that can change your perspective for the day and like set you off. Like I have a terrible habit of watching like the news channels like CNN, Fox, I go back and forth and see what each side is saying, not that I agree with both sides, but they're so crazy and they're so polarizing and I would be like, why are you watching that? It's just like getting you upset and I'm like. You're right, but I feel like I need to pay attention to what's going on. And the truth is, I don't need to pay attention to what's going on. It's almost like watching a sport.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  It's like entertainment, like see who which side is crazier. And so that's probably something that I would say has been a thorn is I I want to look at less um social media and pay less attention to um the noise around me because I get distracted easily with noise.

• 50:19Nick Bare?

  Yeah, the noise is dangerous.

• 50:20Speaker 01

  Very. And it's so polarizing and it's all negative.

• 50:24Nick Bare?

  Yeah, it's a it's a dark, noisy world. And that's one of the responsibilities I feel with my platform and even more specifically, leading the team here at BPN in my family. It's like, how do we how do we mute or silence the noise that's happening out there? A lot of it's just chatter.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:47Nick Bare?

  Right, like how do how do we focus on the real mission?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 50:51Nick Bare?

  Of what we really want to accomplish? And if we allow ourselves to to be distracted by the noise and the darkness, it is distracting, it takes us off course. You'll never get to where you're trying to get to. And I really try to enforce that and amplify that within my, you know, audience, but also with the team here at BPN.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  For sure. I mean, it's crazy. It could be the other thing that's frustrating is it almost all feels manufactured to get that reaction from you. And then the real frustrating thing is this, as soon as I stop paying too close attention, then I get mad at myself and into like a shame a shame storm of like, why am I getting tied up in this? And you know, they'll always say like, people that get too passionate about politics in particular, it's almost like shows like a lack of intelligence that you can't see that like it's all a distraction. Like, you know, it's just noise like. If this guy wins it or that guy wins and you realize like 99% of the things that affect you aren't going to change no matter who these people are. It's all the same people.

• 51:50Nick Bare?

  When your wife was was diagnosed with cancer, did you find that? That gave you more tunnel vision and all the noise around you kind of dissipated?

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Oh, definitely. It was the only thing I could think about and and focus on and um. The one thing that was a little frustrating is my wife's not like on the same kind of like healthy mission that I'm on and like she's like, oh, everything in moderation. And I'm like, we can't buy any of these processed foods. And she's like, eh. You know, her attitude is like, kind of like her parents, like, oh, we've been eating this stuff for years. It's not. I go, yeah, but it's not the same as it was a year ago. Look at it as years ago. Look at the difference from two thousand to two thousand twenty six. If you just look at any ingredients in the cabinet, the ingredients have changed dramatically. Like I saw a thing like Reese's peanut butter cups, like, let's say it used to have ten ingredients. Now it's got like fifty.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  And I, the numbers are probably wrong, but like as an example, they've added so many food additives and my wife just can't be bothered. And it's like, it's definitely a source of frustration because I'm like, don't buy this stuff anymore. Anything that lives in the shelf for more than a week, I don't want it in here.

• 52:53Nick Bare?

  What's also crazy is the the US versions of these foods compared to other international countries.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  It's a perfect example of how I get frustrated about things that I can't control where I'm like, this is all bullshit. How can we have these like red? Not that I'm a big, like, I don't know enough about science, but like red dies. Why is it okay for the US? But in Canada, you can't get that. In Europe, you can't get that.

• 53:13Nick Bare?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  And then my wife will be like, oh, you're being a conspiracy theorist. She's just not into it. It just drives me crazy.

• 53:19Nick Bare?

  It's a.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  But I try to pick my battles.

• 53:22Nick Bare?

  Yeah, it's a, it's a concern for sure.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 53:26Nick Bare?

  So what what's the goal for for Ken Rideout? Like, where where are you trying to get to in the next five, ten years?

• 53:33Speaker 01

  Good question. Um, I am probably in the best place emotionally I've been in possibly in my whole life. Coming through the thing, the held scare with my wife and and now getting through to the other side. This book has been the this. On March tenth will be the culmination of a lot of like work anticipation and just getting that out into the world will be like crossing the finish line of like one of the biggest endurance events I've ever taken on. It's been such like a labor of love. So I'm looking forward to getting that out. I would love to do some more speaking in the uh in the coming year and years to follow. Like I really enjoy sharing my story and using examples of the things that I've been some of

• 54:17Speaker 01

  the characteristics and behaviors I've been to employ in my own life to kind of get through some of the challenges that I've faced. And that's what I would say the book is really it's less about someone telling you what to do like a self-help book and it's more an example of like, hey, if you're thinking about making a career change, getting sober, taking on some physical challenges, starting a family, adopting a child, I tell you how I did all these things in the book. And it might not be the right way for you, but there's examples in here of how a very average person can do extraordinary things. And I'm I've never been like an elite athlete by any means. I played division three football and hockey in college. I was no threat to get a division one

• 54:59Speaker 01

  scholarship in any sport. But when I got sober, I just made a conscious decision that I was not going to be mediocre at life anymore. And it just being mediocre and being average sucked. And and even if it even if the only thing you weren't mediocre at was effort, which is what I tell my kids all the time, when they go to their own sports events, football, lacrosse, they play a little bit of everything. The little one wrestles and does jiu-jitsu. And I'm like, the only thing because you know, they definitely feel pressure and I'm not a crazy sports dad, but they certainly feel pressure to like perform in front of me because of the things that I've done, which kind of bums me out. But I'm like, I say to my wife, like, what can I do? I'm I stand as far away as I

• 55:40Speaker 01

  can. I try not to like, do anything except encourage. But I always tell them, there is going to be one person in this game that everyone can see is trying harder than everyone else. And he could be the worst person. You could have two left feet. But if you're the one out there trying the hardest, we all know who it is. And there's nothing to stop you from being that person. And everyone appreciates having that guy on his team. Like you can be that person today. And that's what we always talk about. And that's what I try to emphasize. So.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Going forward, I just, I would love to just continue to be on the journey I'm on, do the things I love doing, spend time with my family, um, enjoy the fact that we're all healthy. And, um, I think a lot of times people get caught up in these like big monumentous, monumental goals of like, I wanna go to the Olympics. And all of those things are noble, but it's like, in terms of the physical challenges, like I've done the things that I feel like I needed and wanted to do. And now I just have some question marks about what's the next, what's this next chapter of my life look like. But in, in, in a lot of ways, I'm still defining what those success metrics look like, but I'm excited to just like be alive, be healthy. I'm probably gonna start my like spiritual journey.

• 56:53Nick Bare?

  I'd love to hear that.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Much to my wife's happiness. And, uh, and my kids are into it too. Like my daughter loves going to church. Like she loves it. Um, she's very social, but she just likes going there. She likes, she'll write scripture on her like pinup board in her room and stuff. And it's all so strange to me because I didn't grow up like that. So seeing your kids do those kinds of things, you'll see you're in for a treat. Every time you think that, oh, once the kids get out of diapers, once they get to this gonna get easier, this gonna get easier. And then you just realize, nope, you're on to the next set of challenges. Then they're like, oh, they're having disputes with their friends and you live and die with their emotions. You're only as happy as the saddest kid. And now my daughter's gonna start driving in July. And then when I say she's a bad driver,

• 57:36Speaker 01

  that would be an understatement. She drives the golf cart. And I'm like, how is this kid gonna drive a car? I told my wife, I go, I have to buy a Tesla with full self-driving. I go, I cannot let her drive a car.

• 57:47Nick Bare?

  Scary thought.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Oh dude, but it's just the whole thing is crazy. Cause you know, one day she's a baby, the next day she's like, you know, daddy can't take me out to drive. I gotta get some practice. And I'm like, oh my God, this is going too fast. It goes super slow when they're babies and then it just accelerates and it just gets faster every year.

• 58:03Nick Bare?

  One of my good friends is, uh, Pastor Lyle Phillips.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 58:07Nick Bare?

  Out in, uh, the east, east Nashville at Legacy Church.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:12Nick Bare?

  I would love to connect you with him.

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Please do.

• 58:15Nick Bare?

  Uh, I think you guys like really get along. And uh, I mean, he gets after it in the gym and runs and I've had him on the podcast. Just a really good guy.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  No, I'd love to. Please connect me.

• 58:26Nick Bare?

  Enjoy connecting with him.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 58:28Nick Bare?

  I was recently listened to a, a podcast and your book and story reminds me of this concept. It's a difference between uh, creating the life that you want and managing the life that you have.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:42Nick Bare?

  Like you so easily could have just managed the life that you had growing up. And it's like, here's, here's my upper limit, my lower limit, my left, my right limits. I'm just gonna stay in this box.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 58:54Nick Bare?

  Not right here. I'm just gonna manage what I've been given and what I have.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Description.

• 58:58Nick Bare?

  And then there's people who go and create the life.

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 59:02Nick Bare?

  They want. And you have to take these massive risks and it sometimes it's gonna feel like you're losing everything.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 59:08Nick Bare?

  And you might.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 59:08Nick Bare?

  Lose everything in the process. But you can either manage the life you have or create the life that you want. And I think you're a great example of doing that.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  And you know what's funny? Like when you, if you had told me when I started this journey of like working for myself and doing things I wanted to do. I was scared shitless, just like anyone listening to this who would like a lot of time, Wall Street, a lot of times, Wall Street guys will reach out like, how'd you make this shift? Because that type of job is like a hand, it's like handcuffs because like, and listen, and it, life isn't all about money. But just to pu- put this in perspective, like I could easily work on a trading desk right now, make $2 million a year and just cover a co- cover up clients and come in and do this. But I'm gonna be on that desk for eight to 10 hours a day. I'm gonna get a few weeks off a year. But like, if you think about it in those terms, you're a prisoner. You're gonna get at this amount of money in exchange for your, giving up your time and, and, and your focus.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  Or I can chase the dreams that I have for myself. I'm running this management agency. I'm doing speaking stuff. I'm doing some brand deals. I'm just trying to like figure out my way and I could make a lot less money. I mean, if things go wrong, I could make no money. But I have come to the conclusion that I want to control my own destiny. And if it means making less money, I can, and I have friends that are like, I had a friend who was a CEO at Deutsche Bank. He was probably making 10 million dollars a year. And he's been, he had been contemplating leaving and starting something in the health and wellness space, which he did. He's bought a complex up in the Brookshires and hosts events and everything. And at one point I said to him, I go, dude, I promise you, you have 10 to 100 times more money than I do.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Do you think you're happier than me? Cause he's always been like, admired the things that I've done. And like, he's into endurance sports and he's like, no, you seem like you're much happier than I was. I said, you're killing yourself so you can take your family to the Four Seasons in the Caribbean. He had young kids and I go, okay, I'm driving instead of going to the Four Seasons in Turks and Caicos. I'm driving to, um, uh, Santa Rosa Beach down in the thing. And I go, I promise you, my kids and your kids had the same quality of time. My kids see the beautiful water in the Gulf. They're like staying in a nice house with a pool. I've spent like 10 grand, you spent 100 grand. My kids don't know the difference and neither do I. It's a state of mind. You think you need to be living this life and keeping up with the Joneses.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  And I go, as soon as you let go of what other people think of how you're living and do the things that you wanna do. And he quit, he quit his job and bought this facility and he's doing that now. And that's what I say to people is if you're waiting for the stars to align and the time to be right to make a move, you're gonna wait till hell freezes over. You have to make the time right and you have to not be afraid to lose. It's just like these challenges that you and I have both undertaken. Like you could easily go to the Ironman, get a flat tire, throw up on the run and realize like, I can't finish. And then you're like, oh my God, how am I gonna tell people I shit the bed at this race? Like I did the high rocks in Boston and just humiliated myself. When I was thinking, I'm gonna smash everyone and break the world record. And I was so embarrassed, but.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  I thinking you'll probably like this too. I was like, I can either like wallow in this and cry like a baby, or I can just like turn on the camera and to the people that were watching be like, okay, I got completely smashed and humiliated. Here's what happened. No excuse, just a fact, just a rundown of the facts. And what you realize is that the people that like you and care about you are much more, not impressed, but they're much more like in your corner when they realize you're just like everyone else. You can't win all the time and and you learn much more about yourself when you lose. And you learn a lot about people when they're faced with difficulties and embarrassment and that's what life is. If you couldn't lose, why would you go and do it? And that's kind of like the theme of the book is like,

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  if you're afraid to do these things, then you probably shouldn't do them. There has to be a little bit of fear. But if that's gonna control your actions, then maybe you're better off keeping that job that you have and letting someone else control your destiny and realize you're either working on making your own dreams come true or someone else's.

• 1:03:13Nick Bare?

  I was listening to this Tony Robbins podcast this past week, actually. And he was talking about two of the things, there are multiple things that we need in our life to to be fulfilled and happy and successful. And two of the things are contrasting. We need certainty, but we also need uncertain.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:31Nick Bare?

  And when you go after a big goal, it's like, I'm certain, like I can put in the work, but I'm uncertain that I can really achieve this huge ambitious goal. And that's what makes it so fun and fulfilling. It's like the chase for can I actually get here? So now I put in all the work to set myself up for success for this massive risk. So I'm not gonna take it by chance.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I could promise you that if you take the chance and believe in yourself and and start your own venture of some kind, the rewards and the fulfillment that you feel when you succeeded chasing your own dreams versus working for someone else is like night and day. If you're working in that Wall Street job and you get a $2 million bonus, awesome, great. But you still know that they essentially own you. You wanted that that that money train to continue, you're gonna stay there. But when you take the leap and you make a X whatever amount you like, working for yourself, there's nothing more rewarding than that to think, I created this, but you don't get that feeling without the risk of thinking, oh my god, if this doesn't work, I am in a bad spot. And I use that example a lot, especially

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  with my youngest who's does wrestling, who wrestles, I say to him, dude, if you are afraid to get out there and lose and get embarrassed and get pinned, you're never gonna get to be the champ, because the only way to get better is to wrestle people that are better. And when you wrestle people that are better, you're gonna get pinned and it's gonna be embarrassing. But it happens to every, the best wrestler in the world went through this. You don't just show up at a wrestling gym or a jujitsu gym and kick the shit out of everyone. You get humbled and humiliated and feeling downtrodden. But the people that, like, as they say in jujitsu or any martial arts, the difference between a white belt and a black belt is the black belt never stopped coming back. And that's the truth of life, is like, if you're afraid to get beat, then don't even get in the ring, cuz

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  people get beat. Mike Tyson, if you read any of the stuff on him, like, he, in, in training, when he, the first day he went to Custom Auto's gym, he got in there with the guy, um, I forget his name, the, the guard who brought him from the prison and he was sparring, and Mike started going hard, and then the kid started light, the guy started lighting him up. And the point is, he could have been like, oh my god, this is a dangerous sport, I'm getting the crap beat out of me and my nose is bleeding. Or you could be like, damn it, how did he do that? I wanna learn how to do that to someone else. And you lean into that and figure out a way to learn those skills yourself. But you know very quickly, a lot about someone when they face those kind of like, when you're completely overmatched, either in a combat sport, a running race, when you're like with someone

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  who's head and shoulders better than you, and you're like, how is a person that much superior to me at this activity? You either then want that, or you're like, I'm never gonna get there, and you give up.

• 1:06:15Nick Bare?

  Yeah. That's why one of my favorite quotes is, pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend. Because as soon as you believe you're on top and you're staying on top, you'll get humbled and pushed to the bottom.

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  That's right. And it's happened to me many times, and I'm sure you know, I'm feeling too. I was telling Truett Haynes, he was like, I feel great going into this race, and he didn't have the race he wanted. And I didn't wanna tell him this before, but- My wife will say to me, how you feel for this race or that race? And she goes, anytime you feel like you're gonna kill, I'm so confident, I've done everything. She's like, I get so nervous. But when you're like, I've done everything, I don't know, I don't know if I've done enough, I'm nervous. She's like, I know you come through in those events where anytime you're overconfident, I get nervous.

• 1:06:58Nick Bare?

  Hmm.

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  And it's, dude, it's almost like clockwork. It's happened every time.

• 1:07:02Nick Bare?

  It's a good observation.

• 1:07:03Speaker 01

  Before Berlin in like twenty-three, I was like, I am gonna F and smash everyone. I'm inside, and I was, I was in the best shape. Cause after I almost died at that race, two weeks later, I ran a two twenty-nine in Chicago with only fourteen days of recovery. And I was like in the medical tent, like practically ready like to die. Went out super hard with the second group of pro women. And I started standing on this, I mean, I started like three people behind Elliot Kipchoge. So they take off, you know, the first mile always goes out hard. And then there's the second group of the one group of pro women, then a second group. And I'm like right on the back and they're going through every mile like, like a metronome. Five thirty, five thirty, five thirty, which is about nine seconds faster than the fastest I've ever run per mile.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  And I feel unbelievable because I'm in shape, but it's also scorching hot. And I'm like, you know, with that feeling when you're like, I'm completely saturated with sweat. There's one thing when you're sweating, there's another thing when you're like, your shoes are soaked. And I'm like, wow, I'm like moving. I got to seventeen miles, dude, I was seeing cross-eyed. I, my vision was blurred, I was going backwards. People were smashing into my back, running past me. I got in a shell match with some guy because he almost ran me over as he passed me. I crossed the finish line at two thirty-five and I mean, I was, I, I thought I was gonna die. I literally, I couldn't see, I crossed the finish line, kind of fainted, I was like, medic.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  But the point is, I was in such good shape, I just made stupid mistakes early. And then two weeks later, I run two twenty-nine in Chicago with basically no. Real recovery and but that's an example is I was so confident going into it. I was like, I'm killing everyone.

• 1:08:34Nick Bare?

  Overly confident.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Overly confident. And after that, I never got that overly confident ever again. But I had done that a few times in Ironmans as well.

• 1:08:43Nick Bare?

  You learn from it.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Oh, you learn quickly. Like you said, you get humbled very quickly. And man, I was almost inconsolable. I was telling Truett Haynes this the other day. After that race in Berlin, I called my wife and I'm like, dude, I was a blubbering idiot. She's like, are you crying? I'm like, I'm so humiliated. And she's like, in front of who? I'm like, myself. I knew that I could do this and I didn't. I made stupid mistakes and I'm like, so regretful. I can't undo what I just did. And it's gonna take me a year to come back and do this race, which I haven't done yet, but I would like to at some point. But I tell that story only to say like, that's how deeply like I care about the things that are important to me. And those things are important to me. So if you think that you want to take on some of these challenges and you're just gonna show up willy nilly and like,

• 1:09:28Speaker 01

  kick ass. It's like, no, like, my whole being is poured into like these things, like on a relative basis. I mean, I do, I take care of all my responsibilities. But on that day, that was my responsibility. That was my goal. That was my focus for like 12 weeks of training, you know, and obviously not every day is focused on just training. But for an hour and a half to two hours a day, I focused on what I wanted to do here and it didn't work out. And man, that was, that was a painful feeling.

• 1:09:56Nick Bare?

  Okay, I love what you're doing, man. And super proud of you for putting this book together.

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  Thank you, brother. I appreciate you.

• 1:10:03Nick Bare?

  Meaningful lessons from a lot of hard over the course of a lifetime. And I'm excited for you to get this out in the world, share it.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  Well, thank you, brother. And I appreciate all your motivation regarding the spiritual journey. And I look forward to connecting with your friend in Nashville. And again, thanks for having me on for the third time. Honestly, I think you played a a significant role in helping get this book out into the world because doing shows like yours really put me kind of on the map in terms of social media and letting people know about my story and my journey. And that, you know, helped bring this book to fruition. So thanks again.

• 1:10:45Nick Bare?

  Absolutely.

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Until next time. Yeah, man. Awesome. Thank you, brother. Thanks, man.