StarkWare Sessions #5 | Starknet Identity with Hadrien of Sismo

Sometimes, the frontier is at a crypto conference. We’re returning from our adventures in Tel Aviv with nine exclusive interviews with some of the key players in the StarkNet space. Wish you could make it to all the crypto conferences, but don't have the time? Don't worry, Bankless brings the frontier to you. In this episode, we’re talking to Hadrien from Sismo, the identity tooling set to help express your identity across all your addresses. Digital identity is more than one wallet—we need tools like Sismo to help maximal expression. ------ 📣 MetaMask Learn https://bankless.cc/metamaskshow ------ 🚀 JOIN THE NATION: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/subscribe ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/kraken 🦄UNISWAP | ON-CHAIN MARKETPLACE https://bankless.cc/uniswap ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum 🚁 EARNIFI | CLAIM YOUR UNCLAIMED AIRDROPS https://bankless.cc/earnifi 👻 PHANTOM | CROSS-CHAIN WALLET https://bankless.cc/phantom ------ Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:45 Sismo 5:30 Getting Starked 8:00 Digital Identity 12:00 Data Vaults 15:09 Sharing with Friends 18:00 Soulbound Tokens 20:30 Web3 Social 21:40 Get Involved 22:30 Conference Experiences ----- Resources: Hadrien Charlanes https://twitter.com/dhadrien_ Sismo https://www.sismo.io/ StarkNet https://starkware.co/starknet/ ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02David Hoffman?

  Welcome to Bankless, where we explore the frontier of internet money and internet finance. And sometimes, that frontier is at a conference. Like last weekend, where over 1,000 developers, founders, builders, and investors attended the Starkware Sessions in Tel Aviv in order to participate in growing the Starknet ecosystem. This is Bankless' Starkware Sessions series, which are nine bite-sized episodes interviewing the founders, builders, and ecosystem developers of Starknet. Every once in a while, in the crypto world, a conference happens, but not everyone is available to attend. Don't worry, Bankless has your back, because I go to basically every conference that's out on the frontier, and I bring an entire podcast studio in tow with me, in order to make sure that the Bankless Nation stays on the frontier of what's happening in crypto. In this interview,

• 0:46David Hoffman?

  we are talking to Sismo, and Sismo is an identity tooling set to help express your identity across all of your Ethereum addresses. Sismo lets you connect all of your Ethereum addresses, whether you have your Bored Apes in one address, your CryptoPunks in another address, or your Governance tokens in a third address. Sismo lets you prove what you have in your wallet, or what you've done in your wallet, to some sort of third party, some sort of web app, some, anything that's trying to access your identity, but it lets you keep yourself private in the process. So say, for example, you are trying to get into this party that is token gated by Bored Apes, but you don't want to dox your address to that website. Sismo allows you to do a zk proof of the state of your address to

• 1:31David Hoffman?

  prove to anyone about the credentials that you might have in that wallet without having to dox your wallets. And it's also useful for combining all of your identities across all of your wallets that you may use, so that you can express all of the access that you have across all of your wallets, all at once, without having to dox these things together. The use cases for this are endless, and so we go into all of these details and more in this interview with Sismo. But first, I want me to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible. Kraken has been around for almost as long as crypto itself. As crazy as crypto is, Kraken has remained a rock for its clients, building out a platform designed to stand the test of time. Kraken is all about proof, not promises, which is why they've pioneered a proof of reserves, a system that lets Kraken's customers verify for themselves

• 2:16David Hoffman?

  the solvency and responsibility of the Kraken exchange. And for this reason, and many more, we've chosen Kraken as Bankless's strategic sponsor for 2023. And once you're done using Kraken to get your dirty fiat money into pristine crypto assets, perhaps you should check out Arbitrum, where so much of the frontier of crypto innovation is taking place. Arbitrum just announced their Stylist Initiative, which is their brand-new programming environment that lets developers deploy apps using their favorite programming languages like Rust, C, C++ alongside regular old solidity EVM apps. That's can use any coding language they like, and it simultaneously drops Layer 2 fees by an order of magnitude. It's a big deal. So many of your favorite DeFi apps have already deployed to Arbitrum, like Uniswap. But did you know that Uniswap isn't just for ERC20 tokens anymore? Uniswap is also an NFT aggregator too,

• 3:01David Hoffman?

  to make sure that you are getting the best price on your NFC purchases. Uniswap gives NFT collectors and traders powerful tools, all from the cozy, comfy Uniswap interface. By the way, it's also got a native fiat on-ramp. It's also deployed on like every Layer 2, and it's got this nifty cool thing called a universal router that ensures that you always get the best price on your trades. Crypto protocols like Arbitrum and Uniswap are becoming super powerful, so make sure that you're also using a wallet that's equally as powerful, or else you'll be missing out. If you're looking to upgrade your wallet experience, check out Phantom, the number one wallet of Solana, which has recently come to both Ethereum and Polygon. Phantom has native NFT support, giving you your own NFT gallery from inside the wallet. Phantom is both a browser extension and a mobile wallet, and is also the only wallet to span both the Solana and Ethereum ecosystems.

• 3:46David Hoffman?

  Check it out at phantom.app. And now, let's get into the interview. Welcome Bankless Nation back to the Starkware Sessions. We are on day two, and I have completely lost my voice talking to everyone here over in Tel Aviv, Israel. Today and right now, we're talking with Adrian from the Sismo team. Adrian, welcome.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks, thanks. It's gonna be great.

• 4:03David Hoffman?

  Yeah, how's your conference going so far? How's day two?

• 4:06Speaker 01

  It's going really great, yeah. A lot of cool stuff are happening, a lot of ZK people. So for a team like us that are doing ZK, it's always great, yeah.

• 4:14David Hoffman?

  So we're of course going to talk about Sismo, and I want to see if you can explain Sismo in a sentence, but then we're going to talk about Starknet, and then we'll go back to Sismo.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Sismo utilizes ZK proofs, so that you can selectively reveal stuff from your wallet. So let's say that you have a big wallet with many, many data. We're using ZK proofs, so that you can just take a piece of it, and we tokenize it as an SBT. So let's say that you have a wallet with like many NFTs, DeFi stuff like that. You can just pick one data, one NFT, and you get a Solbon token on another address, that is virgin, that is empty, that just proves that you own this NFT. So by doing this, you have chosen a piece of data, and you can use this new address to connect on applications, and to, yeah, just bring the data you want, basically.

• 5:01David Hoffman?

  And this is, of course, an identity conversation to help express who we are, but also keep ourselves private, right?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah. It comes from the fact that, having that in real life, you always choose, depending on the context, what you bring to the, what part of your identity you bring. So like coworker's party, you don't bring the same identity that's in your coworking space, right? And so it's a bit similar with Sismo. What we're trying to do is that from your sovereign data, from your wallets or even other Web2 accounts, you can exactly choose what you want to reveal when connected to an app.

• 5:35David Hoffman?

  Okay, so I want to ask you about how you ended up overall in the StarkNet ecosystem. How'd you get started? Was it with the StarkX or StarkNet? Like, how'd you get started? And why did you pick the StarkNet ecosystem?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think that, so just to be 100% clear, we're not yet deployed there. We want to. Just to give you a sense of what Sismo is, like users in their front end, they generate ZK proofs. Like that, I have a certain NFT. And then we need to verify it. And Sismo allows you to verify it on-chain, on Ethereum, on EVM chains, but also off-chain. Like a server can just check the proof. And we plan to deploy on StarkNet to verify in Kero. So that's, we're not live yet, but my... I'm a good friend with like a lot of people that have been in the ZK space for quite some time. I was working at AVE, and we worked with them on bringing AVE to there. So yeah, like, a lot of friends in common,

• 6:31Speaker 01

  but not yet like fully deployed there.

• 6:33David Hoffman?

  Is there something specific about StarkNet's technology that is conducive to what you're working on in Sismo? Or can you also do this on... Well, I'm assuming you can do this on Layer 1, but that would probably be really expensive. What about other Layer 2s? And then why did you overall pick StarkNet?

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, so... I guess that Sismo is a bit like

• 6:57Speaker 01

  we're not defined by blockchain. What we do is a bit of chain. We generate proofs and you can verify it anywhere. So any blockchain can be a substrate. For now, we are mainly on EVMs. So we are on mainnet polygon agnosis. We'll soon be on other chains like Optimisms and like Layer 2s and darknet. So we are really chain agnostic, basically.

• 7:19David Hoffman?

  So you actually don't need block space, do you? You don't need to consume block space to produce a proof?

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 7:26David Hoffman?

  Ah, okay.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, we make it available on chain for two reasons. First, so that smart contracts can use it.

• 7:32David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  And the other thing that is important, I think, is like the SBT part. Is that it's the standard that is well-used even by off-chain applications. So by putting in the chain, it makes it the proof, the attestations, is usable by like Snapshot, Guild, like all the tools that are token engaged, basically.

• 7:53David Hoffman?

  Sure, okay. Well, how did you come up with the name Sismo?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Actually, it comes from the fact that, you know, sismology, it's like signal science. And so our goal is like, from all the noise that you have on your wallet, you pick one and you reveal just this one.

• 8:09David Hoffman?

  Okay. So let's talk about how this is conducive to identity. And I watched you give a talk this morning and you, of course, use the example, and this is a frequent example used in the Web3 world of you get to pick and choose parts of your identity in the moment that they are relevant to the context that we want to talk about. Can you elaborate on this and then talk about how Sismo enables this?

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, so again, we all say this is that there's going to be more and more sovereign data that you own on GID, on your wallet. And then how, now that you own your social capital, that's not the case in Web2. In Web2, like your data is on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn. And they don't let you do anything with it. Like, it's impossible to create an event when you invite your Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn friends because they are so competitive on their data. It's not yours, it won't be shared, like Twitter API is not payable. So, okay, so now that you have like, what is, now that you have several wallets, several identities, your DAO identity, your private wallet, your ENS.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Now it's yours, you can leverage it together.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  But let's say that you want to prove your total amount of ETH. Let's say that you have three wallets with 500 ETH.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  You're lucky then, then you're lucky if you have that. But imagine that, you can dream. You could potentially prove that you have more than 1,000 ETH without creating any link between your wallets. So that's where Sismo comes in, it's like, for now, we allow you to granularly reveal part of your wallet, per wallet, and soon we'll do also this on an aggregated version, meaning that you import in Sismo Vault, like, all your wallets. For now, you can prove, now start generating the key proof from any, any of them, and soon, you'll be able to prove anything from the aggregated data that you have on all your wallets, without creating links with them. So the user is the only one that has the aggregated view.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  And the users can, the user can bring exactly what they need or want to the app.

• 10:13David Hoffman?

  Okay, and so, one important nuance that I want to pull out here is like, say I have three wallets. I've got my NFT wallet, and my, personally, my NFT wallet is also davidhoffman.eth. And so it's also where I have my Enes name, and this is my public wallet, it's my flex wallet, you know? I also have my DeFi wallet. Don't look at that one, like, that's mine. Uh, and then maybe there's like another wallet out there, that's my gaming wallet or something. And so the idea is that you can use Sismo to take out all the properties you want from any wallet, and use, and the point is to not be able to link them together, so I can express what I want from each of these wallets. But the important point I want to drive is like, maybe there's an app that is asking you about some data that you want to provide, but you don't want to link these wallets together.

• 10:56David Hoffman?

  You also don't need to link any wallet to that app, right? Because you don't need to, the app isn't asking for your wallet, it's just asking for perhaps a proof. So it's not only about not linking the wallets together, it's also not about showing the wallet in the first place, right?

• 11:10Speaker 01

  Definitely, yeah, that, that's exactly this. Like, what, what we do allow to do is, the app will, yeah, we, we're trying to fight against the Sign-in with Ethereum version 1. We love it, of course, like, we can connect with your, as you said, your Enes wallet, it's a signal wallet. Everything that is here is public, so you can share it, you know that it's here. But now, let's say that you want to leverage your social capital from your private wallet. You don't want to share it, so, yeah. We'll have this "Prove with Sismo" button, basically, that you can embed in any app.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  It's a sort of competitor, but not really to Sign in with Ethereum. But basically by clicking this button, it's redirect to Sismo where you generate your ZK proof. And then you back to the app and the app just knows, okay, you have a Bored Ape or you have anything. So yeah, that's.

• 11:55David Hoffman?

  So you said not could be competitive with Sign in with Ethereum, but also could not be. We recently did a podcast with Dwayne from Sign in with Ethereum. And we talked about these things called data vaults. Couldn't a Sismo ZK proof be something that goes into like the Sign in with Ethereum data vault? As in like you can create that proof and then have that available to you?

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's what. First, we are not competitors because we can just enhance Sign in with Ethereum apps. Let's say you connect to, I know like Philend, you know Philend?

• 12:28David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  They are doing like from your history, you have a city or stuff like that. And so you're already logged in with your wallet, your public wallet. But what if you want to import data from your private wallet? You could use Sismo from it. So it's not competitor. Like you can just use it to boost, like just you bring the data that you want.

• 12:43David Hoffman?

  Right. I was actually in the Philend Discord saying like, "Hey, I just logged in with Ethereum to do my stuff, but you guys should use ZK proofs to do this." I was in the Discord telling them, and then of course, this is exactly what you're doing.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's our goal. And generally, like, I think what I think that is interesting. Let's say that you want to create a newsletter for Ethereum stakers. And you want to verify that they are all Ethereum stakers. You don't want their address. Of course, you don't want it. So this, it would be a very simple app. You will just have a proof of Sismo, you redirect it to Sismo, you prove that you are a staker. Then you get access to the email newsletter. We also did something, I don't know if you've seen this, but with the foundation, the merger pass. It's an NFT that gives access to conferences. And basically, I think the foundation computed the list of the 130 contributors to the merge. And to get the NFT, instead of just, you know, there's a whitelist.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  And instead of just giving the wallet to get the NFT, they used Sismo to generate a ZK proof that they were part of the whitelist without really. So this was the ZK drop. First app that uses this proof of Sismo flow.

• 13:59David Hoffman?

  So is there a conversation to be had here about websites or companies or projects collecting user data? Because perhaps with the GDPR requirements, they don't want to have... You don't want to be receiving too much data that you don't need. And so maybe like, from the user perspective, I might only want to give you a ZK proof to protect my privacy. But from the company perspective, I might only want to receive certain data because I don't want the rest of that data. Is there a conversation here as well?

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So first, like, I think like, like companies like Ledger, they don't want the addresses, but they want to do some loyalty programs. So it's outside of GDPR. But now, we've been talking with Ariane. It's a project that does... That lets big brands like LVMH, like Louis Vuitton, stuff like that, to tokenize their bags. And they want to tokenize the bags so that they can have a relationship with their customers. But GDPR. And so they need a privacy layer. They need to be able not to be... They need to not be able to track their users. So they're talking with us. And this model would be like a GDPR compliance layer for these loyalty programs or supply chain stuff.

• 15:08David Hoffman?

  Okay, so, question for you. Say there's a party that you need a BoardApe to get into. And I don't have a BoardApe. Can I go to my friend who does have a BoardApe? And I can get him to make a ZK proof of his BoardApe and then sell it to me? And then, would that work?

• 15:27Speaker 01

  No, no, basically no. But just wanted to be sure to have the right answer. But so, the way it was that you would create an SBT of your BoardApe ownership first, in our account process, you need to prove ownership of both the source that is eligible, the owner of the BoardApe, and the destination. So, okay. So that's our... If you need... If you want him to create the ZK proof, you need to give him also the private address of your real address, so that won't work. And then we have a nice property on our SBTs. They are actually more account bound, meaning that...

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Your SBT holder, if you lose the address or if you sell it to someone, you always have the opportunity by recreating a ZK proof of ownership of the source to burn any means. So it doesn't, it won't... I'm sure you can find a way to give your private address to a friend, but you won't be able to create a market of it, because there's always the incentive, I can get it back.

• 16:33David Hoffman?

  Ah, okay, so just to check my understanding, I can make a ZK proof of an NFT that I have, and I can give that to a friend, but that friend doesn't have any assurances that I didn't do that again and again and again, and like kind of ruin the marketplace?

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I wasn't precise enough. Like the ZK proof is like first you have the NFT,

• 16:50David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  and then you own the destination address that will have the SBT.

• 16:55David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  So you need to have, like to generate the ZK proof, you need to have both addresses at the same time. So your friend's address and yours. So you won't give your private key to your friends.

• 17:03David Hoffman?

  Ah, okay.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  So the only thing you can do is mint on a destination of yours, then give the private key to your friend.

• 17:09David Hoffman?

  Sure.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  And then you always have the opportunity to burn any means.

• 17:12David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 17:14David Hoffman?

  Okay, so I can make a ZK proof of my NFT, and I have to also use a private key of a destination address for where the Soulbound token goes, but I can give that to my friend? And then, but then again, the friend doesn't really have any assurances that I don't do this multiple times? Okay.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:31David Hoffman?

  But I could still get into the party, though? Because I could still give it to my friend?

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the version that we released today. But tomorrow, like as soon as, so we have this big thing at SEC, like the conference in Paris. We have this masquerade. It's a privacy preserving party. And so to get in, it's gonna be this. But then what's great is that

• 17:52Speaker 01

  you won't be able, the ZK proof will be off-chain. It will be on a one-time thing. So when you present to the event, you'll need to...

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Create the ZK proof on your mobile app. Prove directly that you have the Punk. And then you access, like it's ongoing. You cannot, unless you share your wallet to your friends, you won't be able to do that.

• 18:12David Hoffman?

  Sure, okay. We talked about, so the Soulbound Token goes into the destination address. I think we might have skipped over that part of the conversation. Can you talk about the role of the Soulbound Token in the Sismo ecosystem?

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so let's start again with ZK proof. So I do a ZK proof that I have an eligible account for a specific badge. I'm part of the group of, uh...

• 18:34David Hoffman?

  You're in the club.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm in the club. I have a board app, I'm part of it. I create a ZK proof. Then from this ZK proof,

• 18:42Speaker 01

  we can use it all off-chain, like, uh, off-chain service can just check it. No SBT involved. Or we send this ZK proof on-chain to what we call a ZK tester. It's a smart contract that verifies, if you use a ZK proof, it's valid. So it checks you have an eligible source. It checks also that you own the destination. So it verifies this ZK proof. And then it means the SBT on your destination. And third, it stores what we call a nullifier. It's the fact that, to make sure that you won't be able to use the same source twice to get two badges. So one source, one badge.

• 19:19David Hoffman?

  So when it comes to like the roadmap of Sismo, what, how, how does this thing get started? Like, what is the first sort of ZK proofs that you guys generate? Like, how does, how does this play out in the future?

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so today we have these SBTs. They are starting to be used to gate some, like, I, I think of ZKPay, that is a project on Aztec that gates their community to people that have been using, uh, Aztec. There are a lot, there are, there are also a lot of personal tokens. Like, in the SismoFactory, factory.sismo.io, you can easily create a ZK badge, like, click-click, like, no-code UI, a ZK badge for all your Lens followers, for instance. So we have this. I think it's, it's great, but, uh, I mean, it is great. But we're trying to aim wider, meaning we want to really help application developers.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  To gate their services to specific users without getting their wallets. That's what you were saying about. So we'll go to the market with the Provisismo button that is easy to integrate. Basically, step one, you choose your gate. Like, I want to gate a service to my Lens followers or people that follow Vitalik, or I don't know. Then you get the button to integrate in your front end. And then all the Solidity library, if you wanted to be SBT, or an off-chain

• 20:42Speaker 01

  package to verify the decay proof.

• 20:44David Hoffman?

  Anyway. So for the listeners that are listening right now, we have a lot of Lens users and Farcasters users in the Bakeless Nation. Is that probably where they might run into Sismo first?

• 20:54Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah, yeah, that's that.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, we, yeah, Farcasters, Lens, they

• 21:05Speaker 01

  they are actors within the Sismo ecosystem on two sides. First, they are sovereign graphs, right? So you can prove stuff from your Farcaster. I can prove that I follow you on Farcaster, I can prove that I follow you on Lens. And then they can integrate Sismo to do specific stuff, like follow me only if you prove me that you are part of the proof of humanity registry. And so on the two sides, I think like, we're building infrastructure for this kind of people. Like, that's our focus. We want to onboard civil resistance teams that build these groups, like. Anyway, yeah, we're building for them.

• 21:39David Hoffman?

  Very, very cool. If people want to start experimenting or just read more about Sismo, where should they go?

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're trying to keep the doc updated, like, a lot. So it's always an iteration process. So go to docs.sismo.io and create your first decay badge on factory.sismo.io. It's a very simple app. You choose your group of eligible accounts from like, you can say like, my snapshot voters, people that follow me on Lens, like.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  You can use, yeah, many things. You see like subgraph, like many things. So you can create your ZK badge, you choose the metadata and it's live. So that's the things that you can do today and keep updated. Like within the next two months, we'll release like this dev tooling, the Provis Sismo button. That will be so exciting, I think.

• 22:25David Hoffman?

  Because I'm looking forward to it. What's the website and any other social medias that you want people to follow?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's sismo underscore ETH, that's the Twitter. That's the main landing with the docs. Like the website is... Yeah, the docs is our main landing, I would say. Docs.sismo.io

• 22:41David Hoffman?

  Awesome. Adrian, for the rest of your time here in Tel Aviv and at the Starkware sessions, what's exciting to you? What talks have you liked? What have you enjoyed? Who have you talked to? Anything that stand out to you so far?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it was actually one of my first Starknet conferences. And the... I met so many people working on ZK Stacks. I'm more like a ZK Snack guy, so like a...

• 23:04David Hoffman?

  I don't know what that means, but I love it.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Yes, so I met like crazy, crazy amount of people that just blew my mind. Like yesterday I was at an event and wow, like the community is big. Because I thought that I knew a lot of smart and great people on ZK. And like it's twice the size, actually, so it's... I think like it's just getting started, like all this ZK stuff and yeah, the crowd is amazing. I sincerely advise you to go to this kind of conferences, like a...

• 23:35David Hoffman?

  Is the Sismo team gonna be at ETH Denver?

• 23:38Speaker 01

  We're not this time. We have to ship what I told you about, like two months of sprints. And then we'll go like many hackathons until LCC.

• 23:45David Hoffman?

  LCC is the big one?

• 23:46Speaker 01

  LCC is the big one and we have our big party, so yeah, we're gonna be all in on LCC. And before that, we'll go at ETH Porto, ETH Dam. And then other... We'll do a lot of hackathons, so always happy to help you guys get started with Sismo.

• 24:04David Hoffman?

  Adrian, thank you so much.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks a lot for the invitation and...

• 24:07David Hoffman?

  Cheers.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  Cheers.