276. Why Joe Biden must step down

"Last night was a game changer. And the change that now has to come is to produce another game changer, which is a new Democratic candidate." In an emergency episode of The Rest Is Politics, Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell follow on from Katty Kay and Anthony Scaramucci's reaction to Joe Biden's "horrific" performance in CNN's presidential debate against Donald Trump. TRIP Plus: Become a member of The Rest Is Politics Plus to support the podcast, receive our exclusive newsletter, enjoy ad-free listening to both TRIP and Leading, benefit from discount book prices on titles mentioned on the pod, join our Discord chatroom, and receive early access to live show tickets and Question Time episodes. Just head to therestispolitics.com to sign up, or start a free trial today on Apple Podcasts: apple.co/therestispolitics. TRIP UK TOUR: To buy tickets for our October Tour, just head to www.therestispolitics.com 🌏 Get our exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ https://nordvpn.com/restispolitics It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ✅ Instagram: @restispolitics Twitter: @RestIsPolitics Email: [email protected] Video Editor: Teo Ayodeji-Ansell Social Producer: Jess Kidson Assistant Producer: Fiona Douglas Producer: Nicole Maslen Senior Producer: Dom Johnson Head of Content: Tom Whiter Exec Producers: Tony Pastor + Jack Davenport Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Rory Stewart?

  This episode is brought to you by NordVPN.

• 0:06Alastair Campbell?

  And I must thank NordVPN because on my Grand European Tour with Fiona, I was away from the Hawthorns for West Bromwich against Burnley, but I managed to watch it. There you go.

• 0:19Rory Stewart?

  I actually had a NordVPN thank you. I was in the new Starbucks here in Creve, and of course, the thing flashed up, saying this is an unsecured public network. And I was able to go to my VPN. It was a little reminder of something we often forget when we're in all those cafes and things, which is actually genuinely, people can do all kinds of weird cyber attacks and spying if you don't have a virtual private network when you're sitting in that Starbucks.

• 0:42Alastair Campbell?

  Well, I think, are you not really sort of proud of me that I managed to do this? Or should I say Fiona managed to do this?

• 0:49Rory Stewart?

  I'm incredibly proud of you. That's a tech transformation. So to get the best discount off your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com/risterspolitics. That's nordvpn.com/risterspolitics. And the link is in the episode description.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  So good, so good, so good. Nordstrom Rack is celebrating 125 years of Nordstrom with 125 of the best deals, up to 65% off in stores and online. They're only here while supplies last, so shop today. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd, causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all keep the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 1:35Speaker 04

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:41Speaker 05

  What would happen if I stopped going? You stall, you freeze to death. That's what...

• 1:46Speaker 04

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:49Speaker 05

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:50Speaker 04

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 2:03Rory Stewart?

  Welcome to the Rest is Politics emergency podcast on the Biden Trump debate with me Rory Stewart.

• 2:08Alastair Campbell?

  And me Alastair Campbell, and I fear Rory is an emergency.

• 2:12Rory Stewart?

  It's a real emergency. And I mean, it's it's shattering, absolutely chattering. I, as I say, I've got my American mother-in-law staying and she is the most passionate Democrat. And I've been saying, as you know, a little bit over the last few months, that I think Biden's age is a big problem. And she's been loyally standing up for him and saying Trump has cognitive problems. But I'm afraid even for the loyalist Democrat, that debate was a disaster.

• 2:38Alastair Campbell?

  I didn't stay up to watch it. I've watched it since, but I woke up to my phone with a rash of messages. Just to give you, so these are from friends who were in America. Are you watching this? It's horrific. Another one. This is worse than anything I ever expected. Another one. The only, and this is really interesting, the only good thing about this is that everybody will now see this has to stop. He has to go. Now, as you know, and by the way, fair play to you, you've been saying this for over a year. And I've always been loyally defending Joe Biden, his record will come through, et cetera. But I think it was truly horrific. There were half a dozen moments that I'm afraid will now be part of history. Because we're talking here about, you know, presidential elections, these things get books written about them, films made about them.

• 3:23Alastair Campbell?

  And it was like watching your very elderly grandfather.

• 3:30Alastair Campbell?

  And the fact that the only time that they ever seemed to really get passionate about anything was when they were arguing about their golf handicap.

• 3:39Alastair Campbell?

  The killer moment for me was when Joe Biden was talking, I think about health policy. And he was getting confused between COVID and Medicare and. And Trump, who, whatever else he's got, and we both agree is a vile human being, but he's got, he's still got energy despite his age. And he just sort of looked rather pitifully and he said, I don't understand what he just said, and I don't think he understands what he just said. And then cut to Biden, just looking like he really didn't know what he just said.

• 4:06Rory Stewart?

  Yeah. So for, for, just quick explainer for people who haven't yet watched it. And it's, and it's pretty painful watching. There's that big moment that you're, you're talking about there, which is a moment where relatively early on, where he's supposed to be talking about childcare and eligibility. And he says, you know, we, we dealt with the COVID and then he realizes he's not supposed to be saying COVID. Then he says, everything we need to, and then he pauses and then he says, look, then he pauses and then he said, we finally beat Medicaid. And which of course also gives Trump the opportunity to say, yeah, you did beat Medicaid. But as, as the debate goes on, there's a moment where he pulls it together a bit. So there's a bad moment, very bad moment at the beginning, pulls it

• 4:48Rory Stewart?

  together a bit in the second, third. But the fundamental problem is that Joe Biden has clearly been made to memorize a lot of lines. He's fine in the immediate sort of 10 second reaction where he can say to Trump, you're a liar, that's ridiculous. But he's frequently not using his time. So again, and again, the person has to say, I'm afraid, Mr. President, you know, you've got another 75 seconds left. What would you say to that? Because obviously what is memorized isn't long enough. And I just sort of wrote down some of the things that are going wrong. So there's the voice, very stumbling voice.

• 5:24Alastair Campbell?

  Just to give a plug to our American podcast, Rest is Politics US, Anthony Scaramucci made the point that he, he, he sounded like the voice, I mean, I've got a problem with my voice, but his, his sounded like he might have been ill. And Anthony was saying they should have briefed that out to expect his voice to be weak because it was quite shocking. That's what I mean about looking at your grandfather, your very elderly grandfather. His voice sounded incredibly weak. At times I was leaning forward, trying to listen, trying to hear what he was saying.

• 5:54Rory Stewart?

  One problem in these debates is just the physicality, almost regardless of the content. Biden's voice is frail. He's, he's closing his eyes. His movement is not confident. Whereas Trump, even when he's talking nonsense, looks vigorous, looks coherent. The, the second thing I thought was interesting is that we were expecting, because of the way that Trump normally behaves, that what he would be doing is interrupting continually. And do you remember they tried to deal with that by getting the mics muted?

• 6:23Alastair Campbell?

  Yeah.

• 6:23Rory Stewart?

  Trump doesn't really interrupt. Trump seems to sense, I suppose, quite early on that Biden is doing more damage to himself than Trump needs to. So even when there are quite open goals of Trump saying, you know, there was one example there, but generally, Trump doesn't point to the fact that Biden is getting stuff wrong and he's just letting the audience see it, isn't he?

• 6:44Alastair Campbell?

  Yeah, I remember talking to Hillary Clinton about, in fact, we talked about this on the podcast when we did Hillary Clinton on Leading, and what it was like being on the stage with Donald Trump. And she said that he has an animal instinct. And I think the animal instinct that he picked up very, very quickly was that Biden is not in good shape here. And almost the more he talks and the more that the focus is on him, the better it's going to be for me. And the other thing, if you were thinking about how you would have prepared Joe Biden for this debate, you know that Donald Trump is incapable of telling the truth. You know that he's going to lie. There should have been four or five moments. Now Biden did keep saying that's a lie,

• 7:27Alastair Campbell?

  but he didn't have at his fingertips, in his head, the factual rebuttal that said, that's a lie and these are the facts. So Trump was able, and his campaign now pushing this stuff out where he's talking about, you know, I left the economy in greatest shape than it's ever been. There are now more immigrants coming through the border than ever any time before. So Biden's just there going, saying, that's not true. But the facts were not there. And because CNN had decided not to do real time fact checking, the fact checkers are basically saying, Trump, I saw one that said, Trump told a lie in every single answer. But that is lost because the only thing people are talking about now is Joe Biden.

• 8:05Rory Stewart?

  And there's an added problem on the fact checking, because this is another problem, which is that Biden is frequently getting his figures wildly wrong. So he's saying there are thousands of trillionaires in the country and then he's like, I'm sorry, thousands of billionaires.

• 8:18Alastair Campbell?

  He said at one point, he said at one point he'd created 15,000 jobs. He went 15 million.

• 8:23Rory Stewart?

  Yeah, and then another point, he said he created thousands of millions of jobs. So about an hour and a quarter, he said he created thousands, you know, billions of jobs, much more than the population of the US. So part of the problem with the fact checker is that if they were fact checking Biden, they would have to be saying, this guy claimed to creating thousands of millions of jobs. And of course, there's only, you know, 300 million people in the US.

• 8:43Alastair Campbell?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 8:44Rory Stewart?

  Anyway, let's, let's sort of step back for a moment and just look at it from the point of view of these two campaigns. The Trump bet, which I'm afraid was validated, is the Trump campaign has been saying for some time, we welcome this debate because Biden will lose it as soon as he walks on stage. They thought he would actually just be so frail, just walking across the stage. That turned out not to be true. He walked across the stage, fine. But I suspect that one of the reasons why Trump was restraining himself is their fundamental strategy was based on their idea that Biden is much more frail, which is what they've been saying, much older, much more incoherent than people acknowledge, they just need to let him do it. What do you think the Bidens view was? Why do you think they pushed?

• 9:29Rory Stewart?

  Because actually, this debate is partly because the Biden team pushed for an early debate. What were they hoping to do through it?

• 9:35Alastair Campbell?

  I think capitalize on the fact that Trump is emerging from a period where he's been convicted of these 34 felonies, and they thought that had him on the back foot. Added to it, now, the only thing, let's imagine there is a kind of Machiavellian Democratic Party strategist who's hovering in the background of this. The Machiavellian in me says, is it possible that person or people thought, we know the truth about what's going on. We know that actually Joe is not going to be able to stand up to the rigors of a really horrible presidential campaign. If we get him out early in a TV debate and the public see what we know. Maybe we can actually make the change that needs to be made.

• 10:18Alastair Campbell?

  That could be completely wrong, but what what I think the the problem with this for the not just for the Democrats, but for the sort of political health of America, which is not strong at the moment, is you've had a whole load of surrogates out for the last few weeks saying, ah, yeah, but you don't see the Joe Biden that I see. You don't see the guy who's on top of the detail, working around the clock, dealing with these big issues. Well, if that's the case, how come he couldn't stand up to a kind of, you know, one hour debate with whatever it was, one and a half hour debate with Donald Trump. And so, and the the real worry now is, and frankly, the the most alarming thing for me, well, there were a lot of alarming things, but one of the most alarming things was the sight of Jill Biden welcoming Joe Biden back into where all their supporters were hanging

• 11:03Alastair Campbell?

  out watching the debate, where she welcomed him like a conquering hero and sort of said, you know, you got all the facts right, you landed all the points, you were fantastic, and then turned to the crowd and said, and what did Trump do? He lied, they all they all shouted. And I thought, surely, if let's just imagine, Roy, when you let's when you did your TV debate with Boris Johnson et al., and you had that moment of ripping off your time, I reckon when you came out, Shoshan, who loves you very dearly, would probably have said, Roy, that can go really well. Likewise, if I if I do, if I if I'm on television or I'm doing something and I I'm not on form, Fiona is always going to be the first to say to me, listen, that was shit. You know that was shit.

• 11:47Alastair Campbell?

  Now, somebody has to be talking to Joe Biden and telling him the truth, because if not, he is falling victim to the same kind of hubris that we've been talking about, and so is Jill, and that is very, very dangerous.

• 11:59Rory Stewart?

  I'm afraid that's right. It's it's the inner circle that's keeping him going, because there've been a lot of people trying to get him to step down. So a lot of the big donors to the Democratic Party tried to make him do that a year ago. Quite a lot of his close allies in the Democratic Party in Congress came to him to try to get him to step down. But when we were talking to some of these people towards the end of last year, they said, okay, it's too late now. And one of the reasons they said that he was staying was that Jill Biden, Jill, his wife, had convinced him that it was fine and that he could run. And so by the end of last year, they were like, okay, it's too late. We haven't convinced him to step down. We're just going to have to keep our fingers crossed.

• 12:40Alastair Campbell?

  Yeah, but I think, I think, I think this changes that. I really do.

• 12:43Rory Stewart?

  Well, the whole thing, the whole thing I suggested in retrospect was mad because even if he was, if you thought he was no, that he was in trouble in the autumn of last year, the idea that all you had to do was get him through to the election was mad because he was then going to have to serve a four-year term as president.

• 13:00Alastair Campbell?

  Yeah.

• 13:01Rory Stewart?

  And, and, and nobody looking at that debate, I'm afraid, thinks that in, and this is the problem, that in four years' time, this is somebody who can be, as it were, the leader of the free world. I think, and this is what the Trump campaign will now remind people of, which is that this job really, really matters. You cannot have somebody who's not fit and not thinking clearly doing a job of that scale.

• 13:24Speaker 02

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• 13:54Speaker 03

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 14:05Speaker 04

  Digger got us into this, that's. And Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 14:11Speaker 05

  What would happen if I stopped going? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 14:15Speaker 04

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 14:18Speaker 05

  I'm not the first then.

• 14:19Speaker 04

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 14:24Alastair Campbell?

  A friend of, a friend of mine who is a Democrat strategist. Showed me a few weeks ago a note that he'd sent. Now, he said he'd sent it to Joe Biden personally. But, you know, sometimes in this world, people exaggerate their access and so forth. But he does, he's somebody who does work for the Democrats. But it did say, you know, note to the president. And essentially was saying, you've been an amazing president, you've got a really great record. You also did the world an incredible service by stopping Donald Trump getting reelected. And you've had a lifetime of public service. But the fact is, there is now this, you look at the numbers and virtually any other credible candidate that we get will beat Donald Trump.

• 15:10Alastair Campbell?

  The final act of public service you should do is to step down and make way. And I said, well, what was the response? And he said, the response was basically that I was kind of slightly expelled from the inner circle.

• 15:21Rory Stewart?

  James Carville, who in a sense is the, is the US version of you, the kind of great communications genius of the Democratic Party, has been saying for a long time now that it is criminally irresponsible of the Democrats to run Biden, that it's helping Trump into office. And that his view was that if people were to look back with benefit of hindsight, that would be seen as this act of criminal responsibility.

• 15:46Alastair Campbell?

  Well, you also, you need, you need, you know, we talk a lot about, when we've been talking about the UK debates. And we say, you know, well, that wasn't a game changer. And there aren't many game changers, but I would argue that last night was a game changer. And the change that then has to come is to produce another game changer, which is a new candidate comes in and you just imagine. And there are some good people there. People talk a lot about Gavin Newsom. I see he's now third favorite in the

• 16:12Rory Stewart?

  The governor of California.

• 16:14Alastair Campbell?

  California. There's some other good people that could come in, but the steps of this, because it's not like the Conservative Party with the men in grey suits. It's not like the Labour Party where you can actually sort of, you know, there are structures there. The Democrat Party doesn't really work in the same way as a political party, as we understand it. The first step that has to happen is that Joe Biden, Jill Biden have to accept that this is not working. Kamala Harris, because she's not doing well in the polls either, she has to accept that the constitutional position that she sort of steps up is not going to happen either. And then a process has to be developed very, very speedily for a new candidate to emerge. Now, you imagine if that new candidate was a strong candidate. Fresh, young, energetic, with a, you know, your famous backstory that doesn't

• 16:59Alastair Campbell?

  crack up under pressure and able to come with a clean pair of hands and basically make a fresh, the story that Donald Trump had a terrible record and he's a terrible human being and here's a fresh start for America. That could be incredibly powerful for the Democrats, but they've got to get their act together and get it done. And their convention's coming up.

• 17:18Rory Stewart?

  It's a risk, but they have no choice really. They cannot now run this in. It's very interesting though. I mean, for people who are interested in kind of commentary and podcasts like us and kind of geopolitical commentary, the way that events suddenly turn everything on their head. There's a kind of Macmillan's great cliche about events, dear boy, events. I mean, what's so strange about politics is the way that in a few days, everything can flip on its head. You and I have been doing a lot of live events where we've been asking audiences, who do they think is going to be the president? And the answer has always been either Trump or Biden, you know, 50 50. And I've been trying to say for some time, it could be a third candidate, could be somebody who's neither Trump nor Biden, but I rarely got more than one out of a thousand people sticking up their hands.

• 18:00Alastair Campbell?

  Do you know what? I've noticed a bit of an increase on that one recently.

• 18:03Rory Stewart?

  Right, right.

• 18:04Alastair Campbell?

  And I think after today, because this, the other thing about American, let's be honest, the Sunak Starmer debates got a lot of coverage in the UK. We talked to Hela Thorne and Schmidt, the former Danish Prime Minister for the podcast The Leading yesterday, and she was making the point that our election is getting next to no coverage in Denmark, very little. But, but Trump Biden, that debate last night is leading the news in virtually every country of the world today. And what's more, here's the other tragedy about it, Rory. Amongst the many people laughing this morning are Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, the Iranians, you know, that was a terrible, terrible advertisement for America.

• 18:42Rory Stewart?

  Yes. So maybe that's right. Let's step back for a second. This increases, I'm afraid, at least in the short term, the chances of a Trump presidency. And that, that's the big story here. Trump and Biden, basically a neck and neck in the polls, was all going to come down to few tens of thousands of votes in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan. And we know that- That Trump two point zero will be different because he's no longer going to have these more experienced people like General Mattis, who was his Defense Secretary, or Rex Tillerson, who he had as Secretary of State. Kind of old guard has disgusted by Trump and left. He now has a bunch of much more fanatical in a circle.

• 19:22Rory Stewart?

  He said that he's going to rip up the US Civil Service. He's a convicted felon who's rejecting the rule of law. So we're going to see this great democracy, which is really the kind of cornerstone of our whole system, under Trump, beginning to internally become much, much less democratic.

• 19:38Alastair Campbell?

  And Rory, Rory, and Rory, as, as, as Kati Kay and Anthony Scaramucci, and we should put it in the, in the newsletter, even though it was a few weeks ago, they, they had a fantastic discussion about this Project 2025 thing, which is this very, very highly organized political project where essentially, unlike the last time, if Trump wins, they've got a plan ready to go to do what ultimately, Trump makes a joke about it, but actually is a form of, of dictatorial authoritarianism, where you basically wipe out opponents.

• 20:08Rory Stewart?

  And, and as you were saying about Xi and Putin, it's not just the terrible impact on American and American democracy. It's that he will very, very quickly sign up to a pro Putin puppet in Kiev. He will signal that he doesn't really care about protecting Taiwan. I'm sure that we will then see Serbia attempt to do stuff in northern Kosovo or eastern Bosnia. We'll be see Azerbaijan making moves against Armenia. This whole world of strongmen and polarization and conflict will be accelerated if the Trump presidency comes in. So the stakes for us all are so high.

• 20:49Rory Stewart?

  And that's why the Democrats getting a credible candidate in immediately is so vital.

• 20:55Alastair Campbell?

  Yeah. I mean, it must be incredible to be Joe Biden this morning, to know that the whole world is talking about you in this way. And including people like me, I have incredible fondness for him. I think he's an amazing public servant. I think he really is somebody very, very, very special. But I don't think any human being could watch that last night. And the point you made about four more years. You know, if that's him today, we, you know, you and I have all, we've all known people who have, who have lost kind of, you know, cognitive ability at a stage in their life. You don't see much improvement once it starts. And the idea of, you imagine the state of the world in four years' time.

• 21:38Alastair Campbell?

  America has got to have somebody in charge that the world can look to with trust and respect. I think through his career, you can look to Biden with trust and respect, but I don't want to see the Joe Biden of five years' time in charge of the Western world. And likewise with Trump, I don't think I could ever look at Trump with trust and respect. So somebody else now, I think, has to emerge and it's going to be very, very tough. You're going to, you're probably going, and the other thing which we haven't mentioned, Rory, is that in the short term, you said this is good for Trump. In the short term, it's probably also good for that, you know, wacko RFK. The third, the third independent. So, you know, the Obamas are going to have to step up, the Clintons are going to have to step up, the big donors, as you say, are going to have to step up.

• 22:21Alastair Campbell?

  And it'll be a horrible, if Joe Biden doesn't want to go, it will be a horrible, horrible, horrible process. But the best thing is if he and Jill could sit down, have a cup of tea and said, you know what? We've had a great life, let's spend the rest of it together and we can have the grandchildren.

• 22:35Rory Stewart?

  Yeah, so it's going to be brutal. I, I still remain optimistic that America can do it, that they can move Biden on and get a better candidate in. Because I think if you work backwards, there is only one solution. The, the answer is obvious now, you have to get a different candidate. People will say that that's risky because the reason that, of course, people liked Biden is that he'd shown that he could deal with Trump in debates. And you saw little glimpses of that, actually, there were, there were moments even in this debate where Biden had a good tone, knew how to turn around and say, this is ridiculous. You're lying again, this is absurd. I mean, he knew how to do that. And people will be worried because they saw it with Trump going up against Marco Rubio and others, and Hillary Clinton most famously.

• 23:21Rory Stewart?

  But if you get slightly wrong candidate, Trump can make mince meat of them.

• 23:25Alastair Campbell?

  Big advantage the Democrats have here is they absolutely know who their opponent is going to be. So you, you get, you sit down, you work out who is the best person to beat this guy. It's not who is the best person, even to be president of America, it's not the best person, who's the best democratic leader we could get. The question on the exam paper is, who is the best person in our party right now to beat this guy? And that is a very, very, very specific and special question.

• 23:53Rory Stewart?

  Alastair, thank you. Emergency pod, really encourage people to listen to Anthony Scaramucci and Katty Kay.

• 24:01Alastair Campbell?

  I thought they were brilliant, by the way. I thought their analysis, especially as both of them really, a bit like us, really, really, really want Trump to lose and wanted Biden to win. But I thought they were very objective, really clear headed, terrific instant analysis. So I really do strongly recommend that people listen to theirs.

• 24:18Rory Stewart?

  And I think maybe to just finish, you know, we've talked a lot about how debates don't seem to really matter in the UK.

• 24:26Alastair Campbell?

  This one has mattered.

• 24:26Rory Stewart?

  But that was just a sort of sense of what a high wire act politics is, that a single hour can change the world.

• 24:33Alastair Campbell?

  And by the way, it mattered, that debate matters in the UK as well, because who is president of America matters in the UK. Just to close, we should say that Wes Streeting, the Shadow Health Secretary, is up on leading right now. And we've got a fantastic interview on Monday, ahead of our election on Thursday, with the former Cabinet Secretary Gus O'Donnell, who of course, well, massive experience in the civil service, but specifically managed the transition from the last Labour government to the first David Cameron led government. So that's out on Monday. Rory, have a lovely weekend, hopefully no more emergencies over the weekend, and we'll see you soon.

• 25:10Rory Stewart?

  See you soon. Thank you, Alastair. Bye bye.

• 25:13Alastair Campbell?

  Bye bye.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 25:32Speaker 05

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 25:39Speaker 05

  I'm not the first then.

• 25:40Speaker 04

  Digger, see the trailer online, only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not admitted without parent.