The Big Gay Myth of Masculinity in Sports, with Mississippi's Own Jay Jurden

Sports and comedy are America's prisms for progress, allegedly. But this queer comedian from SEC football country can smell the lies. In the locker rooms of the NFL and the NBA. In the homoeroticism of Joe Rogan's world. And in the boxes of manliness we put up all around us, more than ever. Plus: Sen. Tommy Tuberville, Caleb Williams, Derek Jeter, Timothée Chalamet, RFK Jr., butt-scouting... and the Cerebro of hook-up apps. • Watch Jay Jurden's Stand-Up Special "Yes, Ma'am" https://www.hulu.com/movie/jay-jurden-yes-maam-ba411b28-b68b-4884-91f0-ee8a5c7bed2b • Get Tickets to See Jay Jurden Live https://jayjurden.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out, presented by eBay Live. I am Pablo Torre, and today you're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Ole Miss versus Miami, someone was like, "Who do you think's gonna win?" I was like, "The coke dealers, that's who's gonna win." I don't know. Uh, Bolivians and Colombians.

• 0:16Pablo Torre?

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• 1:01Pablo Torre?

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• 1:25Pablo Torre?

  I feel like you do a bit of the math that I do sometimes, which is, how much do I sports it up right now?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32Pablo Torre?

  And you, your dial on that goes so much higher than I think people are ready for?

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Pablo, it can go from full-on, like, you know, Hell's Kitchen gay, which is close to zero, all the way to like, if I go to Oxford for a game, if I go to Tuscaloosa for a game, I'm turning it all the way up to SEC.

• 1:48Pablo Torre?

  Full SEC is a dangerous... I don't think New York City in general is prepared for full SEC.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  I think that if people understood how much energy, time, money, and cultural identity was rooted in these 18-year-old black kids across the Southeast, they'd be like, "Oh, it's the 1840s again." These, I mean, these young, strong, black men in the South are propping up economies. I mean, you've done, you've done the research. You know, a lot of these SEC football coaches are the highest-paid public officials in their state. Though, SEC football is so important that Tommy Tuberville is a senator. And he wasn't a great coach.

• 2:31Pablo Torre?

  Tommy Tuberville is being asked questions about Iran right now.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:35Pablo Torre?

  Because he kind of went 500.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Exactly. Tommy Tuberville is being asked about Iran and he goes, Iran, well, we do a play action pass and they'll respect the run. Like, that's what's happening right now. That's the world we live in. And I think when people are kind of surprised by it is because like, I, I was born and raised in Mississippi. I spent the majority of my life in Mississippi and Alabama and then I moved to New York in 2015. So I know how to like, really sort of swing it in a very sort of, I think, American way. That's some of the most American [BLEEP] ever.

• 3:05Pablo Torre?

  You just sort of like rolled your eyes and sort of like, you know, shook your head a bit. When you said something that is so sincere, and I feel that all the time, which is that sports is my passport to everything else.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Whenever people kind of dismiss sports, I go, you are dismissing one of the cultural prisms that people filter everything through. Everything. The only way you can reach a certain demographic of young men is you have to filter it through sports. The reason Shane Gillis is the most popular standup comedian right now is because he's a boy from Philly who loves Notre Dame and who loves the Birds. He loves the Eagles. Like, that's, there's a world where people go, why do, why do these people fall in love with these men? And you go, oh, it's because there's this, these cultural signifiers that let them know you're a part of this in-group and we're gonna have conversation and we're gonna have jokes that only we can get and it amasses this following.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  There's a reason why people love Starbros. They go, oh, I love him so much because he's so funny. But also, he reminds me of every one of my friends from Baltimore who love the Ravens. Like, there's a, there's this connection that I think sometimes people dismiss, even queer people. But then queer people realize that we just do it for divas. Like, I, I love sports. I love sports. And the reason I'm a Yankees fan is because the Yankees are great, but also because Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey dated Derek Jeter.

• 4:24Pablo Torre?

  That was...

• 4:25Speaker 01

  We don't get the album Butterfly without Derek Jeter. And, and that to me is why he's one of the most important baseball players of all time. Because he broke Mariah Carey's heart and we got my all. We got the roof. We got Baby Doll. We got Breakdown.

• 4:42Pablo Torre?

  I don't, I grew up a Yankee fan. I grew up a Derek Jeter fan against all now sophisticated sports nuanced sort of perspective that I aspire to have. I grew up like such a normie.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:55Pablo Torre?

  He's winning, he's the winner. He's the captain, he's my captain.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's the captain, my captain. There's this beautiful also synergy between Mariah Carey and Derek Jeter because he represented kind of Manhattan and the Bronx and then she represented Long Island. So to me, they were like this perfect New York couple that kind of represented everything.

• 5:12Pablo Torre?

  A relationship that was itself a bridge and a tunnel.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  You're very good, very good. So I grew up really liking, I grew up really liking sports. My first formative sports memories were more sports entertainment memories. And this is in my new hour, I talk about how like important professional wrestling was for me starting around 1999. But then I go to middle school, I want to play basketball, I go to basketball tryouts, I don't make it, but I just kind of really want to like kind of get engrossed with sports. And it's around the same time that all of my homeboys, Eric and Evan and Benji, they're all watching SportsCenter every morning before school. So then I have to start watching SportsCenter so we can talk about the top 10 when I go to school.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  So now, kind of coupled with like my burgeoning idea of queerness. I don't know that I'm queer. I know I'm different. I don't, I don't have the words, I don't necessarily know how to articulate I'm bisexual, but I do know something's going on. But I know I can at least continue to have these male friends and these male relationships if I know how to talk sports with these guys. So I end up really kind of falling in love with the NBA and the NFL. There was a moment, a couple, you remember a couple of months ago when someone asked Jalen Brunson if he knew the starting five for the 99 Knicks and he didn't know?

• 6:32Pablo Torre?

  Oh god.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  He didn't know. And my gay ass knew. I was like Charlie Ward, Kurt Thomas, Latrell Sprewell, Larry Johnson, Patrick Good was injured, so was Marcus Camby, Allen Houston, I think, I think Chris, I think Chris Dudley was coming off the bench.

• 6:47Pablo Torre?

  Chris Childs was punching Kobe Bryant in the [bleep] neck.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Kobe Bryant. I think Shaq dunked on Chris Dudley and airhumped him.

• 6:54Pablo Torre?

  And Chris Dudley threw the ball at him.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:55Pablo Torre?

  Chris Dudley later ran for senate.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yes, Van Gundy. I mean, that was the, that was the NBA that like I was introduced to. And so.

• 7:05Pablo Torre?

  Man, I was radicalized at the same time.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So, so it's like, I've always like tried to talk about sports. I have sports jokes on my, in my special. I went to Ole Miss, so one of my favorite jokes is I have a joke where I say I went to Ole Miss and people go, yeah. And I go, you know about Ole Miss because of what movie? They say The Blind Side. I go, if you don't know The Blind Side, is this documentary about this rich family from Memphis who kidnapped this large African American man in the hopes that Senator Bullock could get an Oscar. And, and to me, that's like a very, that's, that's a fun gay joke, that's a fun race joke, that's the history of Mississippi joke. But at its core, it's a joke about The Blind Side, which is based on the book The Meat Market, which was about the SEC football economy. So it's such a,

• 7:51Speaker 01

  to me, sports sometimes is this really cool entry point into culture and race and sexuality and masculinity that I think sometimes people just kind of eschew because they think it's for dumb meatheads. And it is, but it's also for everyone else.

• 8:02Pablo Torre?

  How much did you enjoy going to Ole Miss?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  I really enjoyed going to University of Mississippi because it is where I met my husband. But I also enjoyed it because it really gave me an opportunity to be both like traditionally southern and this like very aberrant form of like, you know, progressive southerner. So I was at this huge football SEC school, but I also was in theater department and hanging out with like the English majors and doing this silly ass theater shit, but also still making, I mean, still making sure we went to The Grove on Saturday. We would go to The Grove.

• 8:36Pablo Torre?

  So The Grove, people don't know. I mean, please explain The Grove visually and just like the, the sights and smells of it.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  So it is tailgating, but not tailgating the way that a lot of non-southerners think about it. So you dress up and part of this, it's always either tied back to the Civil War slavery. So you dress up and the reason why a lot of the students dress up is because at one point they were sending some of. Their boys off to literal war. So now people will like dress up for the football game because the football players are going to war. Whenever people come from outside the South, they go to like an Ole Miss or an Alabama game and they go, why is everyone dressed up? Because in every other place, you wear like a hoodie with the with the with the mascot on it. You wear the colors.

• 9:23Pablo Torre?

  You're not trying that hard.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  If you wear jeans to the Grove, oh my God. People are gonna say, this boy ain't got no home training. This boy wasn't raised right. You can't wear jeans to people. I mean, because there's a there's a crazy amount of money also like involved.

• 9:39Pablo Torre?

  That's the key part, I think, is that there is, I mean, almost ancient.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:44Pablo Torre?

  American wealth in the way that I only saw in movies.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:49Pablo Torre?

  Is that a parasol?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'll be wearing a cotton shirt and you'll be like, oh, yep, ironic. There are these huge sorority houses, these like huge but disgusting on the inside frat houses. And they all have tents in this kind of like area of grass right in front of the student union. And everyone tailgates before the game. And Ole Miss has always been a party school. I mean, it was Ole Miss versus Miami. Someone was like, who do you think is gonna win? I was like, the coke dealers, that's who's gonna win. I don't know. Bolivians and Colombians. So it's always been like this very flashy, hoity-toity, southern. I mean, think like full on Blanche Deveraux, Golden Girls level.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Turn it up like they go Pablo Torre. I'm so happy to be here. I I thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I can't believe that we get to discuss the beauty of SEC football. You know, it's the kind of person who says, well, you know, your great, great granddaddy, the Colonel. That kind of person is attending this game. And. They go, for the longest time, they watch Ole Miss lose. They watch Ole Miss lose.

• 11:03Pablo Torre?

  Oh, wait, so when you were there, how was the football?

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Okay, so I was there for Ogeron.

• 11:10Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  So, my first year was Patrick Willis' last year, P. Willie. They got to see P. Willie play. Seeing the linebacker that good, that fast, that strong in person. When you're an 18-year-old freshman, you go, we're two different species. Look, that's a man. I'm a child. I am but a boy. That is a man. So, we had like Ogeron. And then, you know, we had, I want to say, what was that? Houston Nut, Hugh Freeze. I was there through all of that.

• 11:34Pablo Torre?

  Just some, by the way, incredible names and incredible faces that you just rattled off. That just surged into my brain.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  I saw Hugh Freeze the other week. It was at a strip club, but I saw Hugh Freeze.

• 11:45Pablo Torre?

  You saw Hugh Freeze?

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Nah, I'm joking.

• 11:46Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say, if you saw Hugh Freeze in the wild.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:50Pablo Torre?

  Probably, people are spotting at Ogeron in the wild. Or at least they're posting videos of him jogging shirtless. And like, very angularly, like he's, he's like a...

• 12:05Pablo Torre?

  He's just an Adam Sandler character?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  That is my Ogeron.

• 12:09Pablo Torre?

  But by the way, that is a dead-on at Ogeron.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:12Speaker 03

  In front of the Alabama, and they came back, they're a championship football team, but we knew we was gonna win that game today.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  There are gonna be fans of mine who go, who is this version of Jay that I'm seeing?

• 12:21Pablo Torre?

  This is why I wanted you here?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  There are gonna be fans of yours who go, I have to look up this comic and then go watch my stuff. It's gonna be like, a lot of [bleep] jokes. I thought we were coming here for sports.

• 12:31Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, a lot of Nut, Houston Nut of a different kind.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  A lot of Houston bustin' nut jokes.

• 12:53Pablo Torre?

  But this is before Eli.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  This is after Eli.

• 12:55Pablo Torre?

  Oh, this is, wait, yeah.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  This is after Eli.

• 12:57Pablo Torre?

  Eli was there in '03.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Eli was there '03. Eli is also part of the reason why I could ever even root for the Giants. I remember one of the biggest things ever was in Oxford. They had like a couple of big screen showings of that, that very important NFC divisional org- Championship game, it was Packers versus Giants. Cause it was like, it was the Mississippi Bowl. Cause it was Favre versus Eli Manning. And that was before Brett Favre showed his dick and stole all that money. But.

• 13:26Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, this was 2008.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  So I remember that being a huge deal because Mississippi is, it's so sh** up on that whenever there's any sort of like semi-national spotlight on this state, people really do take pride in it. The reason people say, oh, Oprah's not from Chicago, she's from Mississippi is because we don't, we don't get anything. We really don't get it. The reason why I love sinners so much is because that's Mississippi. It's a sad part of Mississippi. It's a kind of really interesting portion of Mississippi history. It's basically the 30s when everyone was sharecroppers. That's when my grandmother was born. So Mississippi, specifically black people's interaction in Mississippi is this very fraught, but just so culturally rich history.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  And so that's another reason why some people will be like, oh, Jay, why do you talk about University of Mississippi? Why do you say Ole Miss? Why do you, cause some people don't like it when you say Ole Miss. Not completely understand.

• 14:20Pablo Torre?

  Could you explain the name Ole Miss?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. Bomani, Bomani has talked about this. So Ole Miss is kind of connected to slavery and plantation jargon. Because on the plantation, there would be Ol' Massa, the person who owned the house. And his wife, or the slave master's wife would be Ole Miss. But then people kind of said, oh, University of Mississippi has a lot to say. We're gonna call it Ole Miss, kind of as this like warm southern thing. But it's related to slavery as, but I mean, like, sometimes whenever, I don't know, I'll get a comment, cause I have like a couple of clips about Ole Miss, people like, Ole Miss is racist. I'll be like, well, I mean, the LSU Tigers were a battalion in the Confederate Army.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  So not to be glib, but we're all racist, baby.

• 15:07Pablo Torre?

  Well, but it also reminds me, like, if you really, if you really thought that people talked about race too much. You have no idea what people could be talking about all of the time?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Oh my god, you have no idea how hard it is to be a black SEC football coach.

• 15:21Pablo Torre?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  I mean, James Franklin, I look at the world that I sort of like wink and nod at, and I understand that there are these horrors and these atrocities that I'm trying to be both cheeky about. But if someone wanted to have a real conversation about me, I'd be like, oh, it's terrible, it's scary, and I hate the fact that we can finally, you know, we can finally have these conversations and people are still scared to. But, once again, sports is an entry point for that kind of stuff.

• 15:50Pablo Torre?

  The statistic that made me think of you in ways that I'm not necessarily proud of, because I was like, how many people can I talk about this statistic with? And I was like, oh, Jay Jurden could talk about this with me. Just the fact that there are zero out NBA, MLB, NHL, NFL players?

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, they always come out after they retire. They always come out after they retire, or, I mean, we had the Michael Sam situation. Michael Sam, interesting, I mean, I had a joke whenever that was first going on where I was like, oh, I mean, it's really tough. It was tough for him to like find his way in the league because for his position, he was undersized and he had trouble penetrating, and he wasn't that good of a football player. That, to me, is kind of like the sweet spot of where I like my jokes to go. If I'm like hanging with the boys, if I'm like, if I'm trying to get on Barstool. But like, I'm kidding, but there isn't, me and Dave Portnoy do not get along.

• 16:43Pablo Torre?

  I am shocked.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I challenged him to a foot race the other day. No, but there is like, there's this like idea that there are no gay people in sports.

• 16:54Pablo Torre?

  Well, that's, by the way, that's what that statistic is declaring.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  But then, flip it, because any women's sports league has anywhere from 20 to 40% of people who are out, and then another percentage of people go, I'd rather not say. So, something is amiss, and maybe it's how people self-identify, maybe people go, oh, I do gay [BLEEP], but I'm not gay. Maybe they're just waiting for Dwight Howard to come back into the league. I don't know, I don't know. I'm not, I'm sorry Dwight, I know you talk, but it is, I've been to Atlanta, it is... It is such a weird lie. It's such a weird lie, and I think it makes a lot of queer people, gay people, queer men specifically, never come out or just not get into sports.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  And like the gay boys who do know sports, they go, oh, you're an anomaly. Oh, this is so crazy. But I go, if it's all these men, and they've been around nothing but other men since now, like since they were like six, if you start with like all of the feeder leagues and AAU stuff, there have to be people who have experimented and or found love in these spaces. It's the reason why heated rivalry is so crazy. Oh, my God, this is insane. What? What? Oh, my, all these hot men, sometimes [BLEEP] off together. Can you believe it, Pablo? I've been thinking about it. I did some research in the car on the way here.

• 18:20Pablo Torre?

  The heated rivalry thing, this is the part of the conversation that I feel like I hopefully can bring something to, which is that if you do enough reporting around the athletes who have dared to come out of the closet and then have sometimes gone right back in.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:37Pablo Torre?

  There was a college basketball player named Derek Gordon, and he was not, he was the first D1 men's college basketball player to be out and active.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:44Pablo Torre?

  And I interviewed him, and this was, he went to UMass, and he was out, and then he transferred to Seton Hall.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:50Pablo Torre?

  And he stopped talking about it.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:53Pablo Torre?

  And I interviewed him in between.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:56Pablo Torre?

  And Seton Hall Catholic School in New Jersey.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:59Pablo Torre?

  I profiled him, and part of the premise of the profile was however comfortable or safe you thought it was because this guy existed, just know that he's basically decided, I can't, I can't be out anymore.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and what a shame, right? Seton Hall Pirates, he couldn't even go after that booty. Couldn't even go after that booty publicly. That's a shame. That's a shame for a guy.

• 19:22Pablo Torre?

  Try state.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Try state, yeah, try it. No, I imagine not being able to be gay in Jersey. That's wild. That's wild. I think that there is this like, there's this idea you'll be a distraction to the team. And like, I don't. College teams hate distractions, pro teams hate distractions, but also they hate this idea that any one of their players could jeopardize the masculinity of the team. He's not out, and I don't know if he's queer. I don't think he's queer, but we're seeing this. We saw this happen with the Sixers and now with OKC with McCain.

• 19:58Pablo Torre?

  Jerry McCain.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, with Jerry McCain. We see people, and we see it, we saw it happen a little bit with Caleb Williams. There's this idea.

• 20:05Pablo Torre?

  Both fingernail painters.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Both African-American men who paint their fingernails and who are younger, who also are not necessarily locking themselves in these boxes of masculinity the way that a lot of players have had to for the past however many years. And we see this huge backlash from fans of theirs who go, "Oh my God, why you gotta be gay? Why can't you just throw out football and put your hands underneath that big guy's nuts and butt? Why you doing gay [BLEEP] as a quarterback when you're supposed to be touching your center's ass? You doing all this gay stuff? No, I need to see you in a jockstrap in the locker room afterwards. Why you being gay, man?"

• 20:47Speaker 01

  And that, you know, that sort of cognitive dissonance really, it really infects the league and people get so much hate and people get made fun of. Jerry McCain is doing an amazing job of trolling the haters and crushing it. I think SGA also has to deal with it.

• 21:05Pablo Torre?

  Well, there's a queer-coded mess.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:08Pablo Torre?

  That the younger athletes are enjoying.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:11Pablo Torre?

  In ways that our generation.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:13Pablo Torre?

  [BLEEP] too afraid to.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  You get to see Cal Kuzma coming down the tunnel in any sort of outfit.

• 21:20Pablo Torre?

  That giant Dr. Seuss sweater.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  I know. The pink sweater.

• 21:23Pablo Torre?

  The pink sweater.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  I mean, I think part of it is there's a generational kind of like unburdening for these young men because they don't.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  It's both style of play has changed a bit. The idea of what an athlete is and the idea of how tough an athlete has to be has also changed a bit. Also, these athletes, they want to be fashion girlies. They want brand deals, they want sponsorships, they want GQ covers.

• 21:52Pablo Torre?

  And there's also a lot of like, I learned it from you, Dad.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:55Pablo Torre?

  Like, they saw all of their, all the previous generations. And you, dude, we saw the NBA that we grew up watching go from, you know, the Too Tall tees to the dress code.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:07Pablo Torre?

  To then the people wearing polo and preppy and wanting to be on GQ.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  You gotta look at that first, you gotta look at LeBron's draft outfit to him wearing a Tom Brown shrunken suit.

• 22:18Pablo Torre?

  There was those shorts?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you see it.

• 22:20Pablo Torre?

  LeBron wearing the suit, patching shorts?

• 22:22Speaker 01

  But even LeBron, there's a recent clip of him getting shorts that were too short. He was like, no, give these a Bronny, these are a little bit too short for me. So I think as, as the NBA.

• 22:32Pablo Torre?

  A literal learned it from you, Dad.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  As the NBA continues to move forward, I think the shorts will get shorter. And eventually we will get, we will get some booty shorts. And that's, that's when I'm gonna be, hopefully that's when I'm famous enough to play in the All-Star game. That's when I want to be in the celebrity All-Star game.

• 22:49Pablo Torre?

  The Ruffles celebrity game.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  I can't wait for it.

• 22:51Pablo Torre?

  Is ready for Jay Dirtis.

• 23:00Pablo Torre?

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• 24:40Speaker 01

  I'm very happy that these young men, who are younger than me, that they feel freer. I think that, like, on the court, you know, the worst thing that the opponent can call you is like a [BLEEP] or a punk or a sissy and say you're not a man. Like, that's still the go-to. That's still the go-to. It's not, "You're a horrible player."

• 24:58Pablo Torre?

  And by the way, as much as Caleb Williams is doing some of the coolest things you've ever seen on a football field while painting his nails and crying and presenting in all of these ways that traditionally femme,

• 25:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:11Pablo Torre?

  He still is, I mean, and he is, he has a girlfriend, and so, good for him. But the point being, there still aren't any out athletes.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  No one's out.

• 25:21Pablo Torre?

  And the comeback that calling someone a gay slur has made in the last couple of years,

• 25:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:29Pablo Torre?

  It's, "I'm back in high school."

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Well, Pablo, I know I said sports is kind of one prism. We filter everything through. But the other one for me is... Comedy, so sports and comedy are in this very interesting battle where they're both trying to progress, but also regress because there's this idea of this kind of idyllic Eden back when you used to be able to say whatever, we used to be able to be men, we used to do all this stuff. So people who want to bring back, who want to bring back the R slur, they are kind of saying, oh, if we go back to saying these things, then people will be normal and their behavior will be modified because they will have the fear of being called gay, the fear

• 26:15Speaker 01

  of being called intellectually different. So they think it's gonna help them. And part of the reason that's happening with comedy and with sports is because the one sport that comedy seems to be obsessed with, it's not the NFL, it's not the NBA, it's not the MLB, it's not hockey, it's MMA.

• 26:32Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  And it's so funny that a lot of these white boy comedians, the two things they love the most are like MMA and pro wrestling. One is so real, and one is so fake.

• 26:41Pablo Torre?

  It is, so for people who don't know this, like Joe Rogan, to go back to the point you made earlier, Joe Rogan started his podcast, started his whole career in, in media.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:52Pablo Torre?

  As the MMA guy.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Not just as an MMA guy, MMA enthusiast, MMA announcer, color commentator.

• 27:00Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  He wasn't just a guy who watched MMA, he analyzed MMA. He was the person who made everyone start taking BJJ. Like, he, he was a, he was an acolyte of the Gracie School. He was one of these people who like was an evangelist. He was an acolyte of MMA for the masses. And so he has also captured this huge group of young men who think that now they all have to grapple, that they all have to learn how to strike, that they all have to learn how to be MMA fighters. And they go, oh, because like someone's out to get you. And it's so funny that that specter of someone out to get you has now infiltrated their minds. They actually think that. It's, it's a, it's a fascinating cultural case study if it wasn't so like messed up.

• 27:43Pablo Torre?

  But there's also a lot of just like, you know, me thinks the podcast or doth protest too much.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 27:49Pablo Torre?

  When you, I mean, look, in MMA and wrestling. As much as those are some of the most homophobic sports.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:56Pablo Torre?

  In terms of the physics.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  In terms of the grappling, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:00Pablo Torre?

  In terms of just like the sheer, we're going to hug each other.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  This is an exclusive I'm gonna give you. I'm doing my new hour currently and one of the things I do say is that controversially, I would hook up with Joe Rogan. Not because I want to, but just to ruin his reputation. And we do a little MMA of our own. MMA stands for mouth, meat, ass. We do a little BJJ. We do a little ground and pound, if you know what I'm talking about, Pablo. You understand? Like, that's in the new hour. This is the new hour. But there is this idea that like-

• 28:28Pablo Torre?

  But rear naked chokes is like, that's not even a, that's just a term.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  Rear naked choke, baby. Were you with Animal with me last week? Um, rear naked choke, that's where it's meat disco. So I, I know that these men understand both like the power and the beauty of the male form.

• 28:46Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  There's an appreciation-

• 28:48Pablo Torre?

  Absolutely.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  -of men, of masculinity, of perfect male bodies. So it is very funny to watch, as an out queer man, see these people be so homoerotic, but also so homophobic, while also, and this is the funniest part to me, while also pursuing the arts. At the end of the day, if you want to be a stand-up comedian, you are a person doing a monologue. You are a couple of traumatic stories away from doing a one-person show.

• 29:18Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, you're basically actually doing Shakespeare.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  You're doing Shakespeare damn near. You're soliloquizing, you're a monologuing to these people. And there is this idea that what you're doing is so different and so manly. And I think that's a crack of [BLEEP]. It's so funny.

• 29:34Pablo Torre?

  Oh, it's exit pursued by a bear, but just in a different way.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I've been pursued by some bears, Pablo. I was on a gay cruise for a week. Huh. Polar bears are not extinct. They are thriving with their Cambodian boyfriends.

• 29:46Pablo Torre?

  Oh, God. It also makes me think of, by the way- When I'm watching Tom Brady.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, Tom Brady, Tom Brady.

• 29:56Pablo Torre?

  Speaking of, I'm not saying Tom Brady's in his bear phase, but there's something happening.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  He's not a bear because he's so hairless. Tom Brady is in his older, wealthy bachelor of a certain age phase. Where I see pictures of Tom Brady and if I saw Tom Brady and it didn't say Tom Brady, said a different name, I'd go, I saw that man on Fire Island buying art. I saw him buying erotic art, which is just these beautiful, kind of like silhouettes of the male form to put up in his second Fire Island house. His face is so structured and gorgeous. He's constantly posting shirtless. I think I've seen his nipples more than I've seen his eyes lately.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  He is in this very sort of like, like sexy, older, very divorced, very single, very publicly sort of like, I don't know, attractive older man phase. And these men, they love Tom Brady in a way that is just so, you know, for lack of a better word, and I mean this in the most objective way, gay. They are in love with Tom Brady. Tom Brady can do no wrong to these men.

• 31:08Pablo Torre?

  And this is why, like, why is the, why is the F slur making a comeback? It's because in many other ways, guys have been never more open about what they think is beautiful. When it comes to certainly athletes.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, athletes. I mean, it's, you see with the younger generation with the clavicular of it all, but there's always been this appreciation and this kind of like judgment of the male form. Perfect, perfect segue. It's happening right now. It happened less than a couple of days ago. One of the most watched events of the entire sports year is, oh, let's get all these sexy 22-year-olds together and put them in some underwear and make them run and jump for us and let's measure them.

• 31:54Pablo Torre?

  No, we should put them in, in baggy shorts, though.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  No, no, Pablo, what's wrong with you? I want to see that butt. I gotta see that bubble. But move, I gotta see the intangibles. I gotta see these young men working, sweat for a living. Like the combine.

• 32:08Pablo Torre?

  The actual auction that you're referring to.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the funniest thing about the combine is there's this part of me that my friend Henrik Blix, he was a writer with me at The Problem with Jon Stewart. Shout out Henrik Blix. He was like, there's this part of you, once you get into your 30s, where you go, I kinda wanna do a combine. I kinda, I wanna see, and you always see the clip where some sportscasters, some, you know, sports media person, some sports writer, some person who's covering a specific beat in the city, they have their combine. It goes terrible for them. It goes terrible for them. You're like, I was in the gym the other day, I was like, let me make sure I can like, get up 185s, just, just, just because I don't wanna be Kevin Durant. Let me make sure I can like, do some of this, do some of the stuff that I'm like, judging people for.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, the combine is another celebration of how strong and fast and sexy and talented men are.

• 33:00Pablo Torre?

  I did a story on this, uh, when I was at ESPN. There is, this is not an exaggeration. There are many, many professional scouts whose job is to assess these young men's butts.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 33:12Pablo Torre?

  Because the butt, as you know, Jay.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  That, you tell Pablo, that's what I'm doing after I retire.

• 33:17Pablo Torre?

  It's a power center.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  It's a power.

• 33:19Pablo Torre?

  It is, it is where you derive so much of your athletic greatness.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Oh, my goodness. Leverage, power, control, speed. I mean, do you remember DK Metcalf's combine?

• 33:32Pablo Torre?

  Of course.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  And people lost it. I, because, oh man, once again, but people went, who is this? They said, oh my God, who is this? Who is this, this, um, this being? This Adonis? I've never, because the, the really interesting thing about sports is that.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  You have to cover it in a non-gay way, but the conversations you're having are very homoerotic.

• 34:01Pablo Torre?

  Well, that's what, this is what I mean. I think that it's happening so homoerotically.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:07Pablo Torre?

  In terms of what's happening in the actual action.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:10Pablo Torre?

  That you're watching on camera with other men surrounding it.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 34:13Pablo Torre?

  As well as the actual analysis.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 34:15Pablo Torre?

  People are just like, we gotta throw in some slurs.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:18Pablo Torre?

  Just to draw a line somewhere.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  We gotta throw in a pause. There, I mean, some of my favorite compilations are whenever Charles Barkley says, Shaq, them young boys, they coming. Them young boys, them young boys coming.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, because.

• 34:39Pablo Torre?

  SEC, by the way. There's more SEC everywhere, LSU, Auburn.

• 34:43Speaker 01

  But it's like such a funny, it's why I want to do college game day. I mean, I hope I have this sort of career where I eventually do get to do something fun instantly like that. Because I do want to throw Nick Saban and Kirk Herbstreet off. And be like, whoa, Jay, I'm like, yeah, let's, let's be a little silly. Let's have a little fun. Because people were surprised that to kind of reclaim your heterosexuality, you, you do have to go on something like that. There were people who were like, oh, now I respect Timothee Chalamet because he had a great college game day.

• 35:11Pablo Torre?

  What did you, okay, what was your scouting report of Timothee Chalamet's performance?

• 35:15Speaker 06

  I'm going Jackson State, eight wins in a row, 11 all-conference players. It should be a comfortable, easy win for them.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  Breaking it down.

• 35:24Speaker 01

  People don't understand that he is a New York theater kid, but he's more specifically a New York straight theater kid. So he, he loves the Knicks. I truly believe that. And I think he also loves watching football because he gets to have all of his kind of like, you know, artistic endeavors fully expressed. So he gets to do all of the theater kid stuff and then go be one of the dudes. He gets to do both and he gets to have this beautiful balance. So I love that for him. To me, that's the perfect sort of actor. That's what I want to see from more men. I want to see more men who. Feel free enough to be fashion girlies and sports girlies and like,

• 36:07Speaker 01

  address all this stuff and you know, have other interests. Like I, if, if people ask, oh, what's Jay's top three interests? They probably go like, oh, Jay loves comedy, Jay loves X-Men, and then Jay also, yeah, and then Jay also, they'll put sports somewhere in the top five. But like, that's like, I think a well-rounded approach to life.

• 36:28Pablo Torre?

  We have a pretty similar top three in some order, honestly. Um, I, I, I mean, one more thing on the Chalamet was just, it, it did feel like a guy who knew he needed to turn the dial all the way right.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:43Pablo Torre?

  So to speak.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:44Pablo Torre?

  Um, and he was like, yeah, you're not gonna, I'm not gonna sit at this table and have Nick Saban think of me as the call me by your name kid.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Exactly, and I think that his ability to kind of code switch, really, that's the code switch.

• 36:56Pablo Torre?

  It's what we're talking about.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  And him to be able to exist in both those spaces really made people go, oh, okay, I like this guy. Oh, I really respect this guy. And it's why he's a star, because a lot of boys can map their personality onto him.

• 37:08Pablo Torre?

  Yes, you know, in X-Men, in wrestling, in all, in, in, in the combine, we're talking about spandex.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, we're talking about Lycra, we're talking about spandex, yeah.

• 37:18Pablo Torre?

  And, and again, like, these are some of the straightest boy interests.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, well, it's because there's hero worship there. I mean, it goes, goes all the way back to Joseph Campbell and myth. It goes even further than that, it goes all the way to like, you know, Hercules. There's this idea that there's this part of you that can become this larger-than-life man, who does all of the things that men do. And what's so funny about the Greek tradition is a lot of those men, while they did get married, they also had male lovers, or male consorts, or people that they loved so much that they were heartbroken about. Achilles, Achilles was so heartbroken at the death of Patroclus,

• 37:59Speaker 01

  that he killed Hector and dragged his body around for days because he killed his lover. And then people are like, it wasn't his lover, it was his cousin, sure, I'm from Mississippi, same thing, okay?

• 38:15Pablo Torre?

  But even there, I just love the idea that, no, no, no, you don't get it. What's more straight than murdering someone and dragging their body around? See, now you balance it out again.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, do you understand?

• 38:25Pablo Torre?

  You did some gay stuff, but then you murdered someone and paraded your masculinity.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  What's more straight than circling back on the ops for your boy? I gotta kill him. Spin the block.

• 38:46Pablo Torre?

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• 39:29Pablo Torre?

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• 40:00Pablo Torre?

  Where in the psychosocial map of America is RFK's jeans?

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Oh, my RFK's jeans.

• 40:08Pablo Torre?

  The J E A N S jeans.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  Well, his jeans, the Kennedy jeans, they are shot. Those are terrible. The G E N E S, those are bad. You know, that's horrible. But the jeans.

• 40:18Pablo Torre?

  He's out here, I mean, the exercise, look, you go to the, I mean, if you're not following him on Instagram, you're missing a lot of, a lot of the media empire he's building.

• 40:26Pablo Torre?

  But my algorithm is like J. Jordan and then RFK.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:30Pablo Torre?

  Like presses.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. RFK Jr. choosing to do, I mean, we're gonna call them partial reps in jeans is, I mean, I think it's indicative of this culture. It's a man who has a legacy and who has like ton, he's a nepo baby, telling us what we should do, all while showing us that he doesn't know how to do it. And he's doing it so poorly that he's a danger to himself and others. It is a perfect encapsulization of what's going on with the American experiment right now. That's like what I saw in that clip. The other thing about RFK Jr. is this faux approach to health, just through this like

• 41:11Speaker 01

  hyper masculine coded sort of like facsimile of what they think healthy is. So instead of saying, hey, make sure you have enough protein and enough fiber and enough vegetables, but also you might need a little bit more protein if you're trying to work out because you're undergoing like muscular synthesis, so maybe you need a bit, maybe you need a bit more protein if you're going through all this micro trauma when you work out. Instead of saying that, instead of being very specific and nuanced, he just goes, hey, flip this pyramid upside down, eat more meat, cook it, you don't gotta cook that [BLEEP]. Raw milk, raw milk, hell, you swim in sewage. There's this kind of glossing over of the details because, once again, Pablo, details and specifics, they gay.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Details and specifics, that's gay. I don't got time to be detail oriented. Just eat more meat. Like, it's such a, and then the thing about RFK Jr. that no one really wants to kind of talk about is that if you were to say, hey, if you're an older person, an older American, I want you to work out specifically if you're an older woman for bone density issues. I want to prevent osteoporosis. I want you to be healthy. I want you to be able to be mobile. I want you to be able to have, you know, a healthier life well into your 60s and 70s. No one's gonna be mad at that. No one was mad at anyone telling older people they should stay physically fit. We're mad now because it's just a meme.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  It's the memification of everything. And that's kind of what he ran on, I guess. It was him doing incline press and muscle beach, but the jeans, I think, are this very sort of, I think there's this idea that like, You remember when everyone was obsessed with Chuck Norris?

• 42:53Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  That's what it feels like.

• 42:55Pablo Torre?

  Like the joke generator.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. You remember when everyone was obsessed with bacon? That's what the jeans, that's what working out in jeans kind of feels like. It feels like it's just a meme turned to life and he saw that there was some sort of like humor in the meme. It's kind of when you don't know that you're being made fun of at first and then you keep doing the thing and then people keep making fun of you, but you also just feel like, oh, this is some sort of attention. I got something from it, so I'm gonna keep doing it. If RPK Junior wanted to work out in regular workout clothes, fine, cool. I would also love it if he didn't give everybody in their goddamn momma measles. So this body worship that these men are doing is like a lot of straight trends. It's gay, but it's just 20 years late.

• 43:36Pablo Torre?

  Well, it's also, I mean, to summarize this all in a very, um, simple way, it's all dudes.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:44Pablo Torre?

  We're all dudes doing dude [BLEEP].

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Have you seen the meme where it's like whenever a guy starts working out, he thinks it's gonna be all this attention from women being like, oh my god! But then the minute you get big enough, it's a bunch of dudes being like, hey, so like, what's your split, bro? What's your split? What's your, hey, hey, what's your dose? What's your split? What's going on?

• 44:02Pablo Torre?

  But there's all, I mean, I just need to say this.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Say it.

• 44:05Pablo Torre?

  As, as somebody who has always marveled at his gay friends' use of Grindr.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:12Pablo Torre?

  Grindr?

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:13Pablo Torre?

  Is what straight men?

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:16Pablo Torre?

  If they were truly honest?

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Pablo?

• 44:19Pablo Torre?

  Would be [BLEEP] using?

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Pablo is some straight man on there right now.

• 44:24Pablo Torre?

  But, but, but, the, again, what's the difference? It is honest?

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:30Pablo Torre?

  And clearly here.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  It's not that honest.

• 44:32Pablo Torre?

  Well, okay, fair enough, fair enough. Honest in the sense that we're all here for the geographic proximity.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:37Pablo Torre?

  Of [BLEEP].

• 44:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:39Pablo Torre?

  Can we optimize?

• 44:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna, and you know what? I'm gonna help you and give you the newest version of that, Sniffies, which is even crazier. Because Sniffies-

• 44:49Pablo Torre?

  I'm unfamiliar.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Is just a website, I shouldn't even, ah, I'm blowing our spot up, I'm sorry.

• 44:53Pablo Torre?

  The BTFL audience?

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, listen.

• 44:55Pablo Torre?

  What a treat.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a, there's, there's a newer app that is even more- More direct.

• 45:01Pablo Torre?

  How can you be more direct than what I understand?

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Because grinder is a tile with a bunch of different.

• 45:06Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, please explain if you've never seen.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:08Pablo Torre?

  The grinders UI works.

• 45:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's like the, it's like a tile, a set situation with a bunch of different profiles. And you, you can kind of see where they are in proximity to you. So it's a tile. Sniffy's kind of reverse engineered it. And so instead of seeing the profiles first, you see a map first. And you see them all pop up on the map. So that's like, that's been a crazy innovation. That's even, that's even more sort of like, how far?

• 45:41Pablo Torre?

  You guys invented the Cerebro for [BLEEP].

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Ah, yes, yes, helmet comes down. Yeah, you see it, everyone's there. It's very Professor XXX, is what it is.

• 45:52Pablo Torre?

  It really is.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:54Pablo Torre?

  The, the joke is, is like, of course, if straight men could have this.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:01Pablo Torre?

  They would want it. The problem is that I don't think the women would want the men to have it.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  The women, women cannot have.

• 46:08Pablo Torre?

  That's the key part of being gay.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Women cannot give their location to men.

• 46:12Pablo Torre?

  Exactly.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Because men are prone to murder these women and kidnap them. I have this very interesting relationship with queerness and male spaces because in comedy, there weren't always a bunch of out queer men. There were out, there were more lesbian and lesbian coded comics for the longest time, who could achieve varying levels of success, primarily because people at least could filter them through a male lens. They go, oh, that's a female comedian, but there are parts of her that feel a bit more masculine and she is talking about dating women, so we can't approximate some of these things. With queer men, it's an aberration from the norm. And it's sort of this like desecration of like, all these things are supposed to be male.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  So people don't know how to deal with us. And so a lot of times, when there's any sort of representation, straight male comics over the past 10 years, they go, oh, well, yeah, I, Jay, I'd be more famous too if I was gay. And to those people, what I usually say is, you'd be more famous if you were gay? Well, now I'm saying this as business advice and career advice, suck my [BLEEP].

• 47:16Speaker 01

  No, no, no, homie. I'm giving, I'm helping, because I want you to get a special. So suck my [BEEP] real quick, I'll tell some execs, you gay as [BEEP]. You'll get it. No? Okay, well then, I guess you can just suck my [BEEP] metaphorically. Like, I have a great relationship with so many of my straight comedian counterparts, because they've had to grow up, and because they've basically realized that on the totem pole of men, they're not at the bottom, but they're still very low. Because every comic was like, "I'm a man, I'm a man." Guess what? You don't work an oral rig. You don't drive a truck. You're not a professional athlete. You're not an MMA fighter. You're still a comic. Your goal, your biggest goal, is to talk for an hour like a woman while wearing makeup.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  That's, that's your bar. So, it's, it's funny that this idea that straight men both want all the gay benefits, but none of the gay fear, because that's kind of a tale as all this time.

• 48:15Pablo Torre?

  The fear that all these guys, uh, apparently feel

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:21Pablo Torre?

  in sports, in comedy, in politics, in, in just whatever.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  Is not being man enough.

• 48:27Pablo Torre?

  That's, and that's

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Not being man enough. Damn. I think there's a wonderful balance that you can achieve when you can talk with Pablo about sports and talk with Pablo about sniffies. I think there's a dance that more of these people can do, that they would feel freer in if they allowed themselves to enjoy sports on Sunday and enjoy a play on a Saturday. I want that for them. I want

• 48:53Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  that to be the case.

• 48:55Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Caleb Williams throwing touchdowns with painted nails.

• 48:58Pablo Torre?

  That's right. Saying sniff this.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Saying sniff, I want that. And, and what's cool, what does give me hope, is that men in Chicago were going and getting their nails painted in support of their quarterback. And some of those men also, they didn't just get manis, they got petis. And someone said, "He didn't tell you to get petis." And they're like, "I kinda just wanted to."

• 49:18Speaker 01

  They go, "Actually, Jay, I've been dying to do this."

• 49:21Pablo Torre?

  That's right. That, I think, is in America. I want to believe that.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the future, I hope.

• 49:27Pablo Torre?

  An Omega-level comic, Jay Jurden.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 49:30Pablo Torre?

  The highest and definitely the straightest compliment I could pay you.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Thank you. I love that. No, a lot of Omegas are gay, but thank you, Pablo Torre. Thank you so much for having me.

• 49:41Pablo Torre?

  The pleasure was all fine.

• 49:51Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production.

• 49:57Pablo Torre?

  And I'll talk to you next time.