JRE MMA Show #171 with Brendan Allen

Joe sits down with Brendan Allen, a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the Middleweight division of the Ultimate Fighting Championship.www.ufc.com/athlete/brendan-allen Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Buy 1 Get 1 Free Trucker Hat with code ROGAN at https://happydad.com Visit https://squarespace.com/ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  Alright, what's happening, brother?

• 0:13Speaker 02

  Thanks for having us.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure. So Jamie, what were you just saying? I stopped you because it sounds so crazy.

• 0:21Speaker 03

  Trump said there's gonna be eight to nine title fights at the White House UFC event, and that they're, I guess, in quotes, withholding Dana's holding back title fight.

• 0:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay, first of all, there's only eight weight classes. So how's there gonna be nine title fights?

• 0:34Speaker 03

  Maybe a BMF fight, maybe add a BMF. Maybe you have all of them in BMF.

• 0:38Joe Rogan?

  I guess, but that's kind of a crazy thing. We're gonna have 20 title fights, all the title fights it's ever been. Did he say any matchups?

• 0:48Speaker 03

  No, he didn't say who, he just said they're gonna... I'll see if there's even like a tweet about it, but I just saw him talking about it. It was like a, I don't know, press conference or something?

• 0:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, if they don't do Jon Jones at the White House, I think it'll be a travesty.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:02Joe Rogan?

  They need to do that.

• 1:03Speaker 02

  They have to.

• 1:03Joe Rogan?

  Come on. Dana's like, you can't count on him. You can't fucking count on him, come on, stop.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  When he wants to, he's gonna, he's gonna make it happen, for sure.

• 1:11Joe Rogan?

  At the White House, come on. Jon Jones versus, let's see, what does it say here? Donald Trump predicts eight or nine championship fights. Uh, okay. It would literally have to be every weight class fighting for the title, which would be nuts. Everyone's a championship fight, everyone's a legendary type of fighter. Yeah, he's actually holding back fights right now for six months, so he can do it in the 15th of June. Trump continued, seemingly meaning 14th of June. Yeah. Arena's gonna be 5,000 or 6,000 seats, right in the front door of the White House.

• 1:52Joe Rogan?

  100,000 people in the back, where they're putting up eight or 10 very big screens. What kind of fucking security are they gonna have for this?

• 2:00Speaker 02

  It's gotta be insane.

• 2:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:04Joe Rogan?

  Are you trying to get on this?

• 2:06Speaker 02

  I mean, not really.

• 2:07Joe Rogan?

  Not really?

• 2:09Speaker 02

  I can't, I can't imagine, like you said, the security, the behind the scenes, how much stuff's really gonna happen? I'm just like, uh...

• 2:15Joe Rogan?

  A lot of weird pressure, too. Because it's like, all the security and the protocols, all that extra shit in your mind before you have to go out there and fight.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just seems like a lot, like a lot more than what it needs to be. I'm sure it's gonna be cool to watch, you know, kinda like, what was the, uh...

• 2:29Joe Rogan?

  The sphere?

• 2:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, kinda cool to watch like that, but...

• 2:33Joe Rogan?

  Also, you're fighting outside.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Yes, that's what I, like, what are they gonna do, put a roof over it? Like, what happens if it rains then, what are you doing?

• 2:40Joe Rogan?

  What if it's hot and muggy? That's gonna affect people, you know?

• 2:43Speaker 02

  I've watched them do outside fights in Louisiana, oh man.

• 2:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh god, Louisiana's the, you can cut that air.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  There, you gotta see, everyone's slipping and sliding, it's so humid.

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's terrible. Did you ever see that King of the Cage fight that they did where it was raining?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  I seen the highlight of it, but I never watched the whole thing.

• 2:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was called King of the Cage Wet and Wild, and it rained out. This was in the day when we, we used to have to, uh, put on fights at Indian casinos. I'm pretty sure Eddie Bravo was doing the commentary back then. And, um, they, it rained out. And so they were like, "What do you guys wanna do?" And, uh, everybody's like, "Well, we wanna get paid, so I guess we have to fight." So they fought in the fucking rain. I mean, it was crazy, cuz the...

• 3:23Speaker 02

  How you do that?

• 3:24Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember what the canvas was made out of. It might have been slick. It might have been like a vinyl can, it might, it might not have been like a canvas like the UFC's canvas, which is actual canvas. It might have been like a jujitsu mat type situation, which is...

• 3:38Speaker 02

  That's what it was in Louisiana with the humidity. I can't imagine the rain, the rain's gotta be crazy.

• 3:42Joe Rogan?

  It was pouring, it was pouring down on people. See if you can find some highlights of King of the Cage Wet and Wild.

• 3:48Speaker 02

  It's gotta be worse than blood on the canvas, or blood, blood on the vinyl.

• 3:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, it has to be, it has to be the worst.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  It just doesn't stop, just...

• 3:56Joe Rogan?

  How bad are those fucking logos? Do the logos get problematic when they get wet?

• 4:02Speaker 02

  On the canvas?

• 4:02Joe Rogan?

  In the middle, yeah, in the middle of the octagon.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  I don't.

• 4:04Joe Rogan?

  Here it is. Yeah, look at that. Look at that. That is like, that looks, it's hard to tell what it actually is, but it looks like, like vinyl.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  Got rubber shoes on, maybe?

• 4:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, these guys are fighting with shoes on, which helps a little. You see, this is back when there was like zero rules.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Your man's in a poncho.

• 4:20Joe Rogan?

  My man's in a poncho. That's hilarious. Look at these, oh, these guys are barefoot. Look at these guys sliding around. This is so crazy. They throw punches and slip it. This is like a total like, like winos in a parking lot of a liquor store.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Imagine everyone didn't know it was raining, but like, man, you got rocked like 30 times. No, bro, I didn't get rocked. It was wet.

• 4:43Joe Rogan?

  Right. How do you judge? Like what shots do damage? This is like so silly. Oh, look, they got a guy come out here with a, a thing to slide the water off the side. Yeah, that's not helping. This is so crazy. They're doing this, look at the fighters are helping.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  That is.

• 4:57Joe Rogan?

  The fighters are moving towels around. That is so ridiculous.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  You get an extra 30 seconds break if you wipe off the canvas.

• 5:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right? That's funny. That's funny. Yeah. Um, so who knows what's gonna happen? I guess they'll probably have to have some sort of a roof over it. But what if it's like 98 degrees outside?

• 5:14Speaker 02

  It's gonna be crazy.

• 5:15Joe Rogan?

  It's June in Baltimore, or in Maryland, rather, and you know, DC.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:20Joe Rogan?

  Whatever that is. It's like DC is, it's not even a state. DC gets hot. It gets hot in the summer.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  It's gonna be crazy. I always wonder like how much behind the scenes work goes into like for the sphere, for example? Cause obviously they have everything else down to a science, but.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  Maybe redo that?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  That's gonna be crazy.

• 5:38Joe Rogan?

  Abu Dhabi. That's right. We did a live one outdoor in Abu Dhabi. I remember that. That was when, um, BJ fought Frankie Edgar.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and Anderson, oh, God.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Damian Maia.

• 5:53Joe Rogan?

  Damian Maia, that's right, that's right. Oh, that's right. That was, that was like Damian Anderson and Damian had real beef and so Anderson was like yelling at him in the first round, tried to kill him in the first round. And then he kinda ran out of gas. And so he just kinda coasted for the remainder of the fight and Dana was really pissed. Cause he just coasted and wanted decision.

• 6:12Speaker 03

  Put that back out there.

• 6:14Joe Rogan?

  I guess, but that wasn't good dude. By the way, in Abu Dhabi, they had these bugs that were flying around, the size of small birds. It was, it was crazy. I was like, this is, cause you know, you're in the desert.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:26Joe Rogan?

  It's very weird. Very weird having an outdoor fight in the desert.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  It's like mosquitoes in Louisiana, man. They come out of them swamp water and I don't know what they're doing, but they're huge.

• 6:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, back in the day, they used to have fights like that in Vegas. They used to have boxing matches outside. Caesar's Palace used to have them outside. Yeah. See if you can find some of those, uh, I know, I wanna think, like they had some good fights outside. Like some world championship fights that were outside Caesar's Palace.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  I think it'd be cool to say you did, but I don't think I wanna do it at this level.

• 6:59Joe Rogan?

  No, you're too close, you're too close. Brandon Allen, you're knocking at the door dude. You're right there. You're right there.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  That division's crazy. I just saw Chamiah made a post today saying that he's, he's only gonna do one more at 85 and then he's going up.

• 7:13Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, my wife sent it to me.

• 7:14Joe Rogan?

  He's gonna go to 205?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  That's what he said.

• 7:16Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  She translated it for me. It was in Portuguese.

• 7:19Joe Rogan?

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• 8:03Joe Rogan?

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• 8:47Joe Rogan?

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• 9:32Joe Rogan?

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• 10:03Joe Rogan?

  That's Caesar Spouse.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Dang.

• 10:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  I never knew that, never.

• 10:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 10:10Joe Rogan?

  They had big fights there, too.

• 10:14Joe Rogan?

  Look at how big that is. Oh, my God. That's so crazy. But again, Vegas, outside, must be so hot.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Has to be. That dry heat is something. That's crazy. Imagine being all the way in the back of that thing. You ain't seeing nothing. They don't got no screen up for the TV or nothing.

• 10:30Joe Rogan?

  Who was that right there? Who was there? Oh, Tommy Hearns fought there.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Roberto Duran.

• 10:34Joe Rogan?

  Tommy Hearns or Roberto Duran was outside?

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Damn.

• 10:37Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. In nineteen eighty-four. Wow.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  That's way before my time.

• 10:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, way before. I guess that was, they probably didn't even have an arena back then that could keep those guys in it. I wonder when they started putting arenas in Vegas?

• 10:53Speaker 02

  That's a good question.

• 10:54Joe Rogan?

  It was probably, it probably started for those big boxing matches.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  Ask Perplexity.

• 11:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, ask Perplexity, our sponsor, when did they start putting an arena in Vegas? I'm gonna say ninety.

• 11:11Joe Rogan?

  Because I think Vegas in the beginning was just all about gambling. And if there was a show, it was at a showroom in Vegas, like, you know, if you went to see Sinatra or something like that, it was probably just a couple thousand people. Probably wasn't that big.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  It's crazy to see like how Vegas has grown, like even, like before my time, I see pictures, but even since like I fought, what, Amateur Worlds in Vegas, I wasn't even old enough to go in the casino, so they had to like walk me around in the flamingo, I believe.

• 11:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy. You couldn't go in the casino?

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Couldn't do nothing. If I walked on the floor, they were on me. I'm like, bro, I don't.

• 11:42Joe Rogan?

  How old were you?

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Eighteen.

• 11:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Seventeen, eighteen? No, eighteen, yeah. Eighteen, about ten, nineteen. And, man, they were on me. I'm talking about like, they must have had a watch on me. I stepped on the floor just to go across to get like, uh, to the drink machine.

• 11:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was probably a big concern that if you have underage competitors and that they're wandering around the casino, they could lose their license.

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz we stayed at the Link. It was brand new at the time. And then we walked across to Flamingo. We fought there every, every time until the finals. The finals was in the UFC Expo in the middle of the Expo, which was cool cuz they had like the Hall of Fame ceremony going on. You were there. I seen you.

• 12:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  So it was cool. But uh, yeah, it's crazy just to see it from there till, till now, like how much it's growing and changed and.

• 12:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  It's, it's pretty crazy like.

• 12:28Joe Rogan?

  When did you first start training? How old were you?

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Thirteen.

• 12:31Joe Rogan?

  And what did you start with?

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Jiu-Jitsu. I didn't even like really mean to, to be honest. Like I was playing football. I love football. And um, my brother came home cuz he switched schools and his friend was like, hey, you wanna do jiu-jitsu? And we was watching, you know, UFC on the weekends. That was like, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell trilogy.

• 12:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  All those guys. So we watched them on the weekends and um,

• 12:52Speaker 02

  he asked, so we went there and looked and I was still playing football. It was football season. And um, my dad's like, you wanna try it? I was like, I watched the class and I was like, dad, I wanna do it. And he's like, okay, well, use the trial gi. I was like, dad, I don't wanna borrow a gi. Can you, can we, can you buy me one? My parents didn't have much money. We were, my dad was just starting to do okay for himself at that point. He's like, if I buy you this gi, I promise you for the rest of the year, you're coming. Three times a week at least. I was like, yes, sir. So it started and never looked back. A couple of months later, my brother and my dad joined me and we did it all together for a little while. Then my brother found girls and he went his way. So, yeah, it's been a long road.

• 13:29Joe Rogan?

  That's derailed a lot of young prospects.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  It definitely got him. It definitely got him, man. That life took him elsewhere and I don't know. Luckily, I stayed. He would've been better than me, though. He was a lot tougher and.

• 13:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's a lot, is he the older brother? It's usually the younger brother that winds up being the real good fighter.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he beat me up a lot.

• 13:49Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing. That's the thing. You, you learn resilience. You learn how to be the nail. You know, and the older brother oftentimes is too comfortable being the hammer.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but my dad would put him in his place. So luckily, he was, he was used to being in there a little bit too. You know, my dad's a big man, so um, yeah, man, life is crazy.

• 14:08Joe Rogan?

  So when did you start striking?

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Well, my dad boxed when he was younger and his, his grandfather taught him how to box. And he was like a. He did something, uh, like one like a Golden Gloves in the military or something back when they had like the, the boxing gloves that were made of like horse hair.

• 14:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh wow.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, um, he taught my dad to box. And so my box, my dad boxed in high school, so he was kinda teaching me little stuff here and there growing up, but you know how it is, man, who listens to their father? Now I look back and I'm like, man, I wish I would've listened more and I say stuff that he was like, what'd I tell you ten years ago?

• 14:40Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:41Speaker 02

  Um, but I started striking probably like fifteen, maybe fifteen and a half, somewhere around there, but it was all grown men back then, especially like where I came up at. There's no like beginners classes or anything like that. And these guys are twenty-four, twenty-five, twenty-six, I mean, there's been a couple of times, man, I got hit and I thought my jaw was broken, I start crying. I mean, like smack and it was just like, I couldn't open my mouth and.

• 15:04Joe Rogan?

  That's the problem with a lot of boxing gyms in particular is that when new guys come in, they just beat them up.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, they did, they beat me up.

• 15:12Joe Rogan?

  They don't, they don't box you, like spar you rather, they fight you. And they know how to fight and you don't know how to fight.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  You know, one of my best friends, uh, who was with me, like, I started with him was Kurt Halliwell. And him and Dustin Poirier were the two biggest where we were from at that time. So I remember, uh, Tim Crater reached out to Kurt.

• 15:31Joe Rogan?

  Crazy Tim.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Yep, and he was like, uh, hey, why don't y'all come spar, we got Dustin, I think Dustin was just about to go to W E C or he was, he was right around there at that time. So like, let's go, Kurt's like, hey, you wanna go? Yeah, let's go. So we go over there for sparring and I'm sparring this guy, man, he had to be like five foot one, like he was tiny, short. And, uh, Kurt goes with Dustin and I'm sitting here trying to watch them go, cause I mean, they're throwing, they're fighting, they're, they're not sparring. And this guy's hitting me, I'm like, get off me, like trying to watch. And the same day, like, so we sparred like, I don't know, four or five rounds, it was nice. And then, uh, and I'm only like fourteen, fifteen years old at this time. And then it would start on the ground in your guard.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  And, uh, I go with Dustin, cause everyone like said my jiu-jitsu was good and it was for that time, but I was still just a kid. Dude, he hit me so hard when they said, literally, when they said go, it was like boom, right in my mouth and I was like. Well, I guess this is what we're doing. I hurried up and grabbed and tried to sweep and all that kind of stuff. But man, I never forget that moment to this day. Like last time I trained with Dustin, I was like, hey, you remember that time? You beat me up, like, I'm not little no more.

• 16:42Joe Rogan?

  You had three weight classes above him.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So like, I see all the guys like that. There's one guy in particular. If I see him, I told everyone, I'm whooping his ass.

• 16:50Joe Rogan?

  One guy? You don't want to name him?

• 16:52Speaker 02

  His name's J Mart.

• 16:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 16:54Speaker 02

  Great guy, nice guy. But training, I never forget the day. He hit me so hard and thought my jaw was broke. I'm like, and I was little, like, now I'm a grown man, like.

• 17:03Joe Rogan?

  It is so hard to find, like, reasonable sparring. It's so hard to find people that are, like, willing to not hit you full blast and, like, preserve each other. You know, like, hey, we're all in this together. You help me, I help. And if you can get that, my god, you progress so much faster. If you're in there just, there's something to be said for going through the fire and understand what it's like to be in a war with guys, but there's something also to be said for, like, learning how to recover and, like, having more training sessions and not getting concussions all the time.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, Shawn Jordan was the first to tell me that. It was like, uh, he came and trained, and obviously, you know Shawn's huge, super athletic guy, heavyweight, you know? And I'm talking about, I watched him and this other big man, they were sparring, and they was literally like touching each other. So I asked him after, because everyone else is fighting. And I'm like, man, what, how come you don't spar so hard? He looked at me and started laughing. He's like, Runnin'. At this time, I think he was like 270, somewhere around there, and he's like, I'm 270 pounds. I fought some of the biggest guys, like, biggest names in the world at the time. He's like, I know how to fight. If I, if I go full blast or he goes full blast, one of us is gonna get hurt, and then we're not gonna fight anymore. Like, we're not gonna, we're not gonna make money for our family.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  So I always, I always took that in, and obviously, I'm not like a huge guy like they were, but it's like, even like when I was training in Florida, I knew when me and Robocop go, we're fighting. Like, I know it.

• 18:35Joe Rogan?

  Dude, that guy's scary.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  You know?

• 18:37Joe Rogan?

  Both you, both you guys, like, how the fuck? Are you making 185 pounds and you're on a smaller side in comparison to him?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, it's my weight cuts way harder than his.

• 18:47Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 18:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he walks dude surprisingly. I asked him before cuz he has, you know, he has a great like physique, right? He's big guy. When I see him, I'm like, bro, how much you weigh? He's like, oh, like 205. I said, no way. No way. He's like, I'll step on the scale right now. Steps on the scale 206. I was like, no way.

• 19:04Joe Rogan?

  How was he got bird bones? That doesn't even make any sense.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  No idea. I thought the same thing, but me, I step on the scale. I mean, right now I'm probably like 225, but I haven't done nothing since I fought, but I stay around 215, 220. And I'm the runt of my family. So like my body wants to get bigger, but I'm like, ah, I got unfinished business here. So. Yeah, Joe's, Joe's a, a big 85er, Joe Pfeifer.

• 19:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  He's, he has a hard cut.

• 19:27Joe Rogan?

  He's huge.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  He has a hard cut. That's why I'm like, when he gets.

• 19:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, how is that guy? How is that guy 185? When I stand next to him, I'm like, how?

• 19:37Speaker 02

  Same.

• 19:38Joe Rogan?

  I can't believe he walks around 205 cuz that doesn't even make sense.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  That's what I seen him at. Hey, if it's a lot, guys, strike me down now cuz.

• 19:45Joe Rogan?

  I think he rigged that scale.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  He might, well, we was all using it.

• 19:48Joe Rogan?

  He probably had his heels on the ground.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  There he was. I was super surprised. My boy Tuco was with me. We was all in the room. I was like, cuz I called him out on it. Everyone else wouldn't say it. I was like, nah.

• 19:58Joe Rogan?

  Was it after training?

• 20:00Speaker 02

  After training.

• 20:00Joe Rogan?

  Okay, and both of you after training?

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, but and it wasn't a hard day. Like that day was not a hard day. Like we weren't like sweating. It wasn't like a five, six pound practice day.

• 20:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  It was a pretty chilled day into the week.

• 20:11Joe Rogan?

  It was, I'd still be surprised. If he was only 211, I'd be surprised.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  Dude, but I know like when he had other fights. Uh, he was a little bit bigger because he wanted to be. I didn't understand, but still that, you know, but Joe, I think. Well, the Ritter probably has to be the biggest 85er.

• 20:27Joe Rogan?

  He's enormous.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  He was, he was bigger than I expected and I seen him, but I like in the gym, I never went close to him because I, I, I rode with him like one time in a, in a quick thing. It was like a minute long. But like, still, I was surprised when we stepped in there, like, we stood up to each other at face-offs, and I was like, I was expecting to be a little bit bigger. I don't know, maybe I make everyone bigger in my head. But he was really long, like, even when we stood next to each other, his hands felt like they touched his knees. I was like, alright, this is gonna be interesting.

• 20:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was surprised when I first met him in the UFC, when he first came over. I was like, because I saw him fighting one, and I knew he fought at, I believe he fought at 205 and 85 over there, right?

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:06Joe Rogan?

  And when I saw him, I was like, how the fuck are you making 185 pounds? Like, you look like a light heavyweight. This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. A nice cold Happy Dad is low-carbination, gluten-free, and is easy to drink. No bloating, no nonsense. When you're watching a football game, or you're golfing, watching a fight with your boys, or out on the lake, these moments call for a cold Happy Dad. People are drinking all these seltzers in skinny cans that are loaded with sugar, but Happy Dad only has one gram of sugar in a normal-sized can. You can buy Happy Dad on the GoPuff app and your local liquor and grocery store, including Walmart, Kroger, Total Wine, and Circle K. And you can't decide

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• 22:22Speaker 02

  They were worried about that, when he came over, because he never made a real, true 85, because you know they have the...

• 22:28Joe Rogan?

  Hydration glass?

• 22:28Speaker 02

  The hydration, so he can weigh in at 204, but fully hydrated. And they still know how to finesse that. Like, I just learned, like, how they finesse that and stuff.

• 22:36Joe Rogan?

  How do they finesse that?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  So they drink a whole bunch of water? And then they go, they don't pee, they don't do nothing. They drink that water and then go cut the weight. It stays in their stomach, so when they piss piss it out, it's clear, it's all good. So they they they test that hydration, they test that they're hydrated, but they're really not.

• 22:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  They already went and sweat out a whole bunch, so they drink it, they just hold it. That's how all the guys do it. Some guys mess it up, but that's majority how everyone does it. And so they that's.

• 23:00Joe Rogan?

  So you just drink a whole ton of water and just hold your piss as long as possible?

• 23:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, they make sure like, they probably drink like two cups and then they're just gonna hold. And then they'll go cut for like an hour, like sweat, sweat, sweat, sweat, sweat. And then they say when they show up to the hydration, that's I've heard that from like four people that have done it. And they said, yeah, bro, I learned from this guy and I learned from this guy. I was like, wow, interesting.

• 23:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I knew there had to be some sort of a catch to it.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they and they say it's a lot, it's it's more unhealthy than like cutting weight over here to like really make the weight because it, I don't know, I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But they they, my friends that are into all that stuff are like explaining like how it works and I was like, man, that's crazy. And but he was a guy that never made a true one eighty six, so they were worried. And then he did, and I know like, I know for a fact, he's come in, I don't know when he came in on my fight week. But I think the one before that, he he came in Monday, I believe, at two ten. Two ten to fight week, so I was like, shit, I come in at two oh six and I'm stressing, I'm like, ah, two oh three is like my number.

• 24:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think that contributes to the fact that he gases. You know, I just, I think it's just too much of a strain and he's he's talked kind of vaguely, not not real clearly about problems that he's had with his health. And you know, I I've gotta think that has to do with weight cuts. So many guys have kidney problems.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  For sure, for sure. And it's weird because like in the fight with him, like, I knew, like in the first round, to feel like obviously adrenaline is flowing everything, so even everything's intensified, right? So I could feel how tight he was squeezing. I mean, he was squeezing like his legs, everything. He was trying to where I couldn't move. So I just make little adjustments and make him move a little bit. He'd punch very rarely. But I was like, there's impossible, it's impossible for you to keep this up for twenty five minutes. It's impossible. I know you're not gonna do it. So just bide my time. Plus, I didn't want to guess either because it was short for me, short notice, five rounds, you know?

• 25:00Speaker 02

  It was a little worrisome, but I knew he couldn't. I knew he couldn't. And um, I'm like, we did a lot of prep for him specifically. And we saw the Russian that he fought and won. And I was like, we had our game plan before we watched it. And then we watched it was like, here we go.

• 25:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  That's why everyone asked me, like, what's gonna happen? I'm gonna break him. He's tough. He is tough. But, you know, like.

• 25:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, if he comes out with that mentality, if he's trying to go full blast 100% in the first round in a five round fight, like, whee.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Right, exactly.

• 25:30Joe Rogan?

  Nobody could really do that.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and like I told the guys, like, because obviously he trains where I was training. And they all know, they all know me, you know? So it's like, if you think you're gonna come out here and it, and he said in his interviews, like, I'm a front runner. I'm not good long, but I approach a three round fight differently than I approach a five round fight. So I was like, alright, we'll see. And it kind of backfired.

• 25:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was a big win for you.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 25:55Joe Rogan?

  Huge win. You looked fantastic in that fight.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 25:58Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's like, there's just so many talented people in the division. It's so hard to stand out. And sometimes, you know, you take a guy like DeRider who just got done stopping Bo Nickel, and a lot of, a lot of momentum on his side. He looks real good. He beat Kevin Holland, submitted him, looks real good. And then you came along and stole that momentum.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, it was weird to be honest, because like, when he got there, I was like, I want to fight him. Just because like, things of like, he fought one of my friends, which now I guess they're best friends, but.

• 26:26Joe Rogan?

  Who was that?

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Uh, Ong Lawn Sen.

• 26:28Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  He took both his titles from him.

• 26:30Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  So like, there was no animosity, but it's like, I want to test my, you're a ground guy? Like, I'm a ground guy? Let's, let's see.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  And then it happened. He got there to UFC and I was like, I want to fight him. Like, I was obviously, I think at the time, I was like 12, ranked somewhere around there. But I was like, let him get one, two. And obviously, his name's gonna carry him, you know? So that came and I'll never forget, I was, uh, leaving an LSU game.

• 26:59Speaker 02

  I was uh in the parking lot. My manager called. And I was like, man, can we just get a fight, please? I've been asking for like three months, like, please, I just wanna fight, cuz I'm very like. I get in this mode to where I just wanna fight and I don't, I'll just keep bugging him. Bugging him like, you want me to call Mick? You want, you want me to call Hunter, like? And he was like, no, no, no, no. But anyway, so I stayed on him. He called me, I was like, uh, hey, what about, uh? Uh, uh, DeRitter? He was like, ah, come on, man. He had just fought. I think he beat Gerald. And um, he was like, I, I think I can make this happen. He texted me back a couple minutes, hey, they're good to go. The next day, they called back and they were like, nah, they're not gonna get the fight. Like, they don't want this fight. It's, it's not the right time.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  I was like, alright. They're like, what about Fluffy? I was like, I asked for him two months ago. So that's when I end up fighting Fluffy. And um, it just so happened, he fought the Bo Nickel, got all that hype and uh, I don't know, man. Again, I was at an LSU practice and um, they called me and they were like, hey, uh, my manager called me and he was like, um, just want you to know, Fluffy's out. I threw your name in the hat, but you're not the frontrunner. It's Paulo Costa, he's, he's the frontrunner. But I'm pushing for you cuz I just saw Paulo yesterday. I don't know how he's gonna make eighty-five in four weeks.

• 28:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he needs a lot of time to make weight. There's an, he's another guy.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:18Joe Rogan?

  Eighty-five. Do you think that it could ever be possible for guys to just fight without cutting weight? Wouldn't that be, but wouldn't that be better?

• 28:27Speaker 02

  It would be nice.

• 28:29Joe Rogan?

  Just wouldn't it be better, like, overall for everybody?

• 28:32Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah, for sure.

• 28:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, here's, like, if everybody just was honest about what they actually weigh. You know, like, find, let's find out what everybody actually weighs when you're in shape, like, when you're ready to fight and make a contract to fight at that weight. Because this whole weight cutting thing is just legalized cheating.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  It, it's hard, it's so hard and some guys are so good at it, you know, but.

• 28:53Joe Rogan?

  Like, how about Pereira?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Dude, I don't know how he made eighty-five.

• 28:57Joe Rogan?

  He would weigh 226 when he would fight for the 185 pound title.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 29:01Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't even make any sense.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  I don't get how you can put on that much weight. The most I ever put on was this last fight, I was 207.

• 29:06Joe Rogan?

  Bro, he gained 40 something pounds.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  I don't get it.

• 29:10Joe Rogan?

  Forty pounds in a day.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Blows my mind.

• 29:13Joe Rogan?

  Cause what does it feel like? Like, what does it do to your body?

• 29:16Speaker 02

  I always wonder that, cause like, this one was, this was tough for me. One month, full diet, like, I don't, usually I have like, you know, a couple cheats and ease into the diet, like, I'm starting to do now, cause I'm hoping to fight in March, so I'm already gonna start, you know, being cleaner and stuff.

• 29:31Joe Rogan?

  Are you concerned though, that you could get another of those la- last minute calls? Like, do you think like that? Like, to not get too heavy? Cause if somebody calls and says, "Hey, the big paramount card, somebody fell out, it's January, can you fight?"

• 29:45Speaker 02

  I think where I'm at, it would have to be like, an interim title or something like that. Outside of that, right now, plus like, the reason I, I'm so big and I was out, like, I had fractures in my foot, so I had to, you know.

• 29:58Joe Rogan?

  Did you have fractures in your foot from the fight, or just, you had them before the fight? Oh, god.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, which, we didn't know, I just knew it hurt, like, and, to be honest with you, like, I had them before the fight before that, but I didn't know, like, I was just like, "Man, it hurts", like, I thought it was just like a muscle, so I just would roll it out, theragun it, like, you know, that's what I, that was what I would do.

• 30:18Joe Rogan?

  How many fractures?

• 30:19Speaker 02

  They said they, they saw three, but they're small. It was like, diff- like, rate where like, the toe meets the base of your foot.

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is it from elbows?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I don't know, I don't, it was on my lead foot too, so I was like, I don't even know, like, I don't ttip a lot, cause I'm scared of like, stuff like that.

• 30:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, but I fought with crazy stuff, man. I tore my whole, like, ACL in half, uh, calves, everything, when I fought Paul Craig.

• 30:44Joe Rogan?

  Did you really?

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, when that knee, that, uh, calf slicer?

• 30:47Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  In half.

• 30:49Joe Rogan?

  It just blew your ACL out?

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 30:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, god.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  I didn't know, so like, in the second round, when I go to throw the punch, ev- uh, I think it was Dominic Cruz, he was like, "Oh, they clipped each other", and they showed the replay, and he hits my hand, he never hit, like, my face or anything, but-

• 31:01Joe Rogan?

  Your knee just buckled?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it gave, and you can see me reach down to my knee in that moment.

• 31:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  It was crazy. So afterwards, we got that, but I was lucky, like, when it healed, it like, um- It fell to the bone, like if they attach like up, up here. Mine just reattached here. So I just have a little bit more play and it's still attached luckily.

• 31:20Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's how.

• 31:21Joe Rogan?

  So you never got surgery?

• 31:22Speaker 02

  Never. I was very lucky.

• 31:24Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Insane. There's like three different MRIs that show like, fine, torn half, re-healed.

• 31:32Joe Rogan?

  So it was a partial tear?

• 31:34Speaker 02

  No, they told me it was in half, it cut in half and then like fell. And when it fell, I got lucky and it fell on the bone just lower at a lower point.

• 31:41Joe Rogan?

  And it healed on the bone?

• 31:43Speaker 02

  It fused to the bone itself.

• 31:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:45Joe Rogan?

  How long did it take to do that?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  I don't know, the doctor said it could, it says it looked like it was torn maybe like a slight tear before and that one finished it. And the last MRI was

• 31:56Speaker 02

  probably four or five months ago. Cause I had to get it for something else.

• 31:59Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Fused to the bone, perfect. You can see it clear as day. The doctor showed me, I was like, that's pretty cool.

• 32:06Joe Rogan?

  Did you get stem cells or anything on it?

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did, I did, I did do a lot of stem cells, uh, like through the UFC and stuff, they sent me that.

• 32:11Joe Rogan?

  That probably helped. Did you go down to Tijuana?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  No, they sent it to my doctor.

• 32:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you sent, oh, they just sent it?

• 32:17Speaker 02

  It was nice and they just sent a whole bunch. Like my doctor was like, man, look how much they sent. I was like, I don't know what it's supposed to look like.

• 32:23Joe Rogan?

  Fill it up, let's go.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  So we injected that, but yeah, man, I fight with all crazy stuff, cause it's like, I don't know. I don't know how to pull.

• 32:30Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing that people need to realize that watch, nobody fights at a hundred percent. Or very few people, very, very rarely.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  And I just don't know how to, how to pull, like I've never pulled from one, knock on wood. I haven't pulled on one fight in my career. And I've been pretty, pretty messed up. I think my worst was when I fought Imevol, to be honest. Physically, I was like, like as far as like how my body was, was pretty good. But I didn't realize like how much of a toll, cause I like have a thyroid problem. And I, I went years without getting it checked and um, for like a while, I was feeling like real sluggish, real tired. Um, no sex drive, nothing like, I didn't want to get out of bed. And um, my weight was just steady growing up for the first time in my life. At that point I hit 220. And I was like, what is going on? Like I'm still training, I'm eating clean. And uh, anyway, I went to a specialist in Florida.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  And they tested everything like T3, T4, and I never had T3 checked ever. And it was like seven times the normal value, whatever that was supposed to be. I have it on a paper, whatever. They gave me that and they were like, hey, man, I'm gonna let you know. I was, I was fighting in three, three or four weeks in France. And they were like, hey, this is gonna take a month and a half, two months to regulate and fully settle out. I was like, I don't got that kind of time. Just give me enough to where my, where my weight will come down, because I wasn't losing anything. They're like, it's gonna do that. Don't worry. Within a week or two, that's gonna happen. I was still pretty tired, but I just kept pushing. We get to, we went to London first, stayed there a week. Because it was cheaper for us than going to France, because he had, my friend had family there.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Then we went to France and then, um, I was still feeling like tired. I, that was the first camp in my life. I couldn't do more than two and a half rounds, the whole camp.

• 34:12Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 34:13Speaker 02

  I, I, Byssinger was the only person that I had to train with. Greg was hurt. Um, other guys were out, so I had Byssinger every day. I paid him to, to train with me every day, whenever I wanted, sparring, anything. And, um, ask him, I do good for the first round, halfway through the second? After that, I was dead, like dead. And I'm still hitting my runs, my lifts, every training session. Like, I'm doing everything normal. But man, it was terrible. So the fight comes and, um, they, the, the commission kind of like did super weird stuff, like I made weight and then like, oh, you're getting drug tested. I'm like, okay, no problem. They're like, no, no, you're gonna get drug tested now, not the night of the fight like normal.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  I was like, what? I was like, I literally just cut weight, like, I don't gotta pee. I'm just now drinking fluid. They're like, doesn't matter. You can go to your room. I was like, alright, I'll wait for a couple of minutes. I waited for like 10 minutes. I was like, hey, man, I'm just gonna go to my room, try to sleep. And they were like, uh, no, we don't have enough people. You need to stay here. I stayed there for two hours. They did, uh, finally I peed, just barely. Peeed and they did two vials of blood and they, they got mad because they did that one they, they put on and press.

• 35:25Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  The gravity one and they couldn't get enough. Like, and they were like-

• 35:28Joe Rogan?

  Cause you're dehydrated.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 35:30Joe Rogan?

  Do you think they were fucking with you because you were fighting in France against a French guy?

• 35:33Speaker 02

  It was me and Morikawa. We were the, us two and one other person, American.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  Was that when Morikawa was fighting Benoit Saint-Denis?

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 35:40Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  He, he bitched about the same thing, but somehow he had to-

• 35:44Joe Rogan?

  They were fucking with you guys.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  Them two were up sleeping in their room, chilling.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's so-

• 35:48Speaker 02

  But it's not an excuse.

• 35:49Joe Rogan?

  It does not have to be an excuse. That's so dirty.

• 35:52Speaker 02

  It was, it was, it was frustrating, but that's why I like when, I, I still think Evol's a cool guy, you know, like, he's deserved his title shot. I think he's fully earned it. Don't get me wrong, but I, I want to fight him again where it's like, I sparred him like a month after that. He was at the gym and I showed up at the gym and we sparred. We had a good time. But, um, I still think he's a nice guy. I think he deserved his spot, but I just want to fight him where everything's-

• 36:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Equal. And like you said, we're not going to come in a hundred percent. He's not, I'm not, fine. I don't care if I got a messed up hand, foot, whatever, but just an equal plate.

• 36:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, it just sounds like you were compromised. Look, a good example that was Piotr Jan in his first fight with Murab.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Man, he looked great this weekend.

• 36:31Joe Rogan?

  Fuck. What a masterclass.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  He looked great. I was so surprised.

• 36:35Joe Rogan?

  When you're gonna fight a guy like Murab, like, that is the masterclass. Like, you put on a clinic.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  I didn't, honestly, like, I didn't think he was gonna be able to do that for five rounds. I thought he'd have one, maybe, maybe max two, and I thought Murab was just gonna do what Murab does. I was so wrong.

• 36:50Joe Rogan?

  Bro, his training camp must have been hell.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Had to.

• 36:53Joe Rogan?

  Had to be hell.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Had to.

• 36:54Joe Rogan?

  Had to be. I mean, he must have done some, I mean, it looked like it. I saw some videos of it. It looked like he was doing some wild strength and conditioning and plyometrics and- He knew what he was in for. That's the thing. If you're gonna fight a guy like Murab, it's like, you know what the mountain is. You ready to climb it?

• 37:08Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 37:09Joe Rogan?

  And the first time they fought, apparently he had a fucked up right hand.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  That's what hurt.

• 37:13Joe Rogan?

  And he couldn't grapple with it and he couldn't throw punches with it. So I re-watched the fight after he said that. I was like, oh, he's barely using it. Like barely using his right hand.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Makes sense, right?

• 37:21Joe Rogan?

  Totally makes sense. And then also psychologically, if you only got one hand, that everything, now you have to think. You know, you can't really throw combinations. You have to think.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  Grab.

• 37:31Joe Rogan?

  Want to know how tough Uriah Faber is? Uriah Faber, when he fought Mike Brown, he broke both hands.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 37:36Joe Rogan?

  Both hands.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  I remember that fight.

• 37:38Joe Rogan?

  And he was throwing elbows. Both hands.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  He was one of my favorite fighters. I'll never... He was a guy that I wanted to be just like. I even... You could ask my dad, he'll laugh to this day. I was like, "Dad, I don't want to be..." Like, my dad's tall, everyone's tall. I don't want to be tall. I want to be like him. He was like, "What?" Because that's the fight!

• 37:54Joe Rogan?

  He was a... This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is here again,

• 38:37Joe Rogan?

  and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles. Fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stalkers. Or maybe something more unique, like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com/Rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job.

• 39:19Joe Rogan?

  Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ZipRecruiter.com/Rogan. That's ZipRecruiter.com/Rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Beast. He was a beast back in the day. You know, by the time he was fighting... In the UFC, I kinda think he had had some of his best fights already. Like the in the W E C days.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Dude, amazing fights.

• 39:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was a killer.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  I still remember the Mike Brown coming out party. Jose Aldo.

• 39:55Joe Rogan?

  That's another example of how tough he is. When he fought Jose Aldo and Jose Aldo killed his leg, dude, killed his leg. It is the worst after fight leg I've ever seen in my life. Other than Austin Hubbard, you ever see Austin Hubbard? He got compartment syndrome and had to have his whole leg sliced open. From the top to the bottom to alleviate pressure and drain some of the fluids.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  No way.

• 40:17Joe Rogan?

  It's the nastiest injury I've ever seen. Google, uh, excuse me, look up, uh, Austin Hubbard, uh, images of, uh, I forget the fight. Oh, there it is. Look at his leg, that that black thing, that's his leg open.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  No way.

• 40:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's his tissue.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Oh my days.

• 40:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at that.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  How insane is that?

• 40:40Speaker 02

  Dude, he trains in Chicago with me. Oh, when I ask him.

• 40:43Joe Rogan?

  Look at that image. How fucking insane is that image? That's his tissue underneath there, man.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Oh my.

• 40:49Joe Rogan?

  Look, you have to like mature content, you have to click a link in Instagram to be able to see it.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Holy cow.

• 40:54Joe Rogan?

  How nuts is that, man?

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Dude, that's gnarly.

• 40:57Joe Rogan?

  So, there's a drain, that tube that you're seeing right there, that what that is attached to is that drain. That's letting liquid drip out of his leg, so compartment syndrome is so bad that sometimes people when they don't get it treated, they have to get their leg amputated.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Really?

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  So that was just from leg kicks from a fight?

• 41:15Joe Rogan?

  Just from leg kicks from a fight. I'm trying to remember who he fought. Can we find out, uh, who he fought?

• 41:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, more than a year ago.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  Well, this this picture was three hundred and twenty-five weeks ago.

• 41:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but the fight was more than a year ago. Uh, it was quite a while ago.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  But what, is it like, like a big bruise or?

• 41:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, it says three hundred and twenty-five weeks ago.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Oh, three hundred, yeah, fucking.

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  Three hundred and twenty-five weeks ago, yeah. Um, so it was quite a while ago, but I I see if you find out who he fought.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Boy, it's just like your your leg just stays like bruised and swollen and then you're like.

• 41:51Joe Rogan?

  Not just bruised, like your tissue breaks down, it fills up with fluid and. Yeah, and then also what happens, I guess, when you get. That much damage in your tissue is like your whole body has to process all all that. So it was Kyle Prepolik, I don't remember that. And so it was UFC Vancouver. Passed out in an elevator, had to be rushed to the hospital.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  That is crazy. I never knew that.

• 42:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  See him at the gym all the time. He's a nice guy.

• 42:18Joe Rogan?

  So they had to cut his leg open to reduce the pressure. So that's what that image is. Nuts.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  That is crazy.

• 42:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's nuts. And then Uriah's leg, honestly, in the fight looked worse than that. I mean, Uriah might have had compartment syndrome and didn't get it drained. Cause I know he spent a lot of time in hyperbaric chambers after the fight.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  I want to try that.

• 42:39Joe Rogan?

  It's great.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  I want to try that.

• 42:41Joe Rogan?

  It's really amazing. If you have an aura ring and you go into the hyperbaric chamber, it will tell you that you're recovered more.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Really?

• 42:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, than a normal day. Yeah. Oh, you have a very high level of recovery today. Yeah.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  I'm gonna try that for sure.

• 42:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's legit. Yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 02

  All my friends have been like, like Jared Gordon, like got one for one of his fights. Telling me like how different it makes him feel and stuff. Like for me, as far as I go, it's like, I just started like really like using more supplements like. I think the deal that Thorn made with UFC really helped me. Cause like I started using there and what really helped is I was always scared to go on creatine. Cause like growing up, my dad would get so big and he would like, uh, back in the day, they'd have like all these different things like, oh, if you use too much creatine, it's bad for you, bad for your kidneys or whatever. Uh.

• 43:23Joe Rogan?

  Turns out all that's bullshit.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 43:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and creatine's fantastic for you.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  And that's, that's been like the main thing. Like I can really feel like how, how different my body recovers, like how more.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  Almost energized in a way, you know, I wake up and like when I go to lift and stuff, I feel like way better. So like.

• 43:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's even great for your mind. Creatine is fantastic just for cognitive support.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I need everything for that.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  I've been getting hit in the head since I was 13 years old. So, you know, yeah, it don't, sometimes it don't function properly, you know? I have to, my, it's funny, me and my wife were just joking the other day. We were like, uh, I was like, babe, you do that on purpose, don't you? She's like, what? I was like, you try to use memory against me. You'll wait till I forget something. Then you'll be like, oh, remember you said this? And I'm like, I didn't say that. And I have to die on that hill. Cause it's like, I don't remember. But I don't tell her that. You know, I'm just like, no, I didn't. I know I didn't. You know, so, but yeah, the, that, that was a great relationship that's helped, like, you know, UFC's done like a lot of like, made a lot of good partnerships that's helped like the athletes, but for me personally, like the Thorn relationship.

• 44:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Thorn makes great stuff.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and they're so tested.

• 44:26Joe Rogan?

  If you get in a hyperbaric chamber, that'll, it'll help your memory as well. Hyperbaric chamber is just good for overall recovery for everything. There was even a study out of Jerusalem that shows that lengthens telomeres. They did this process where they had, um, you took sixty sessions of ninety minutes, uh, over the course of ninety days. So sixty hour and a half sessions over the course of ninety days, and it showed that lengthened people's telomeres. That was-

• 44:50Speaker 02

  Really?

• 44:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was equal to a twenty age difference. So, yeah, twenty year age difference. So it's like, your telomeres as you get older, the, that, that's like one of the clear marks of biological aging is how long your telomeres are.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  That's good to know.

• 45:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it indicates, you know, like as you get older, they shrink and the only, there's a few things that they've shown that will increase telomeres, but nothing as dramatic that I've ever heard, uh, other than the hyperbaric chamber. That was probably the best one I've ever heard of, yeah.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  I, man, I've, I've been like trying to learn more about recovery, cause I'm kind of like-

• 45:24Joe Rogan?

  How old are you now?

• 45:25Speaker 02

  I'll be thirty in a couple of weeks.

• 45:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's when you gotta start thinking about it. When you're twenty-two, you're just a wild man, you wake up in the morning with rock hard boners, like everything's fine.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  You just show up to training, you don't even stretch. Now I'm like, wait a minute, guys, wait a minute.

• 45:39Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, even if you're twenty-two, you should stretch. That's just youthful ignorance. God, it's so, there's so many guys that can't, I remember I was talking to, I don't wanna say his name, cause he's a good guy, but he's like a world-class MMA fighter, and I was trying to show him something. We were talking about like guard technique, and he's like, I can't, and I'm not flexible, I can't get my leg like that.

• 45:59Joe Rogan?

  And I go, what do you mean, not flec? I go, why aren't you flexible? He goes, I'm not, I don't stretch. I go, how do you not stretch? You're a world-class fighter who tries to kick people in the head, and you don't stretch? That's so crazy. He's like, it's boring. I'm like, okay, a lot of things are boring, like that, that you don't stretch is so crazy, cause like anytime someone says, I'm not flexible. I'm like, how do you know?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:24Joe Rogan?

  You know? Like, you don't know if you're flexible until you start stretching for a long fucking time.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:30Joe Rogan?

  You can get flexible. It's like, I don't have any cardio. Well, you can get cardio.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  That's a choice.

• 46:35Joe Rogan?

  Fucking work, get, do cardio. And you'll have cardio. This is crazy.

• 46:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's like I'd never stopped, but I started when I was little. I I developed flexibility while my body was still maturing, which is very fortunate because you're not like stiff yet. It's like you can get flexible, but it's I'm fifty eight years old. It's not easy to stay flexible. I just keep fucking stretching.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  I didn't know you was.

• 46:59Joe Rogan?

  I'm old as shit dude.

• 47:00Speaker 02

  I didn't know that. I thought you was younger than that. You're older than my dad.

• 47:03Joe Rogan?

  I'm old dude.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  You're in good shape though.

• 47:05Joe Rogan?

  Thank you. I keep up. I'm scared of death. I'm I'm not scared of death. Death is inevitable. What I'm scared of is being feeble. Like where you can't do things anymore. You can't go on a hike. You can't use your body. Like I work out just as hard now as I did when I was thirty.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  I make my wife always worried because I'm like, uh, I don't know. I don't honestly know if I mean it or not. I'm like, uh, I don't want to be eighty years old. Like, for instance, like.

• 47:32Joe Rogan?

  You kind of not say things like that around ladies sometimes. They don't like.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  She's like, she's like. Like, we're a team. And I'm like, babe, look what I do for a living. Look what I've done. Like, my body's not like that. Like, you know, and like, I don't know. Maybe I say that, but then like I get out of working out for like, I haven't worked out like two months. And I'm like, I'm itching like a frickin' fiend. I'm like.

• 47:54Joe Rogan?

  So when you say I haven't worked out, you don't do anything for two months?

• 47:57Speaker 02

  I haven't done anything. I went in the gym twice. I went in the gym twice. I did one run and one lift. And then we found out my foot had fractures and they sent me this foot boot. And then the doctor's like, you don't have to wear that, but don't do anything that puts a lot of pressure on your foot. Then I've been traveling. Like at the end of the year, I travel a lot going hunting and stuff and, you know, like, like, like your meat eater thing, like. I love that kind of stuff. So, um, I'm not on that big of a scale and that nice of like animals. I'm just like, just a simple whitetail kind of guy, but.

• 48:26Joe Rogan?

  I love hunting whitetails.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  I love it. I got a little property in Illinois and.

• 48:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great, man. So I can't believe that you could take a whole couple of months off with nothing. Just don't do nothing.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Crazy, right?

• 48:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  I'm very blessed.

• 48:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's probably smart. It's probably smart to do.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  It's good and bad.

• 48:42Joe Rogan?

  A few people do that.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  It's good and bad. So like I only do it this much at the end of the year because it's hunting season and holidays and my kids' birthdays. You know, kind of my kids' birthdays are right now or back to, well, shit, I guess all the time. They're back to back to back. So it's like. Alright, we'll do that, we travel, but it's only end of the year. Usually I'll take a couple of weeks off, maybe a month max, depending on my injuries after a fight. But then I'm back at it. Um, but it's hard for me at home. I'm a full-time dad and a full-time husband at home right now. Um, I've got so many kids, you know, that I'm away for so long.

• 49:16Joe Rogan?

  How many kids you have?

• 49:16Speaker 02

  I'm about to have five.

• 49:17Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:19Joe Rogan?

  Five and you're not even thirty yet?

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. I have two with my ex. I'm about to have two with my current wife and she has a son from her previous, so stepson.

• 49:29Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, and he's fourteen. My daughter's just turned six and four, my son's about to turn one, and then we'll have another one in about a month and a half.

• 49:38Joe Rogan?

  So you got a lot of work to do.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's, it's nice, um, it's hard right now. Um, you know, kids have schedules and now like my, my little girls do jiu-jitsu. My stepson was playing football for the first time this year and he, he's a basketball player because my wife was a pro basketball player and, um, so he's always got something going on, but at my new house that I'm working to build, I have like two gyms, full gyms, so like I don't have to leave.

• 50:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's nice.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  I could bring people in to train, I have my full cage that I used to have for my promotion, so.

• 50:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, even if you only, you realize only, I only have forty minutes before I have to leave. But I can get a half hour workout on real quick and you could really burn it out for a half an hour just to keep, keep the machine oiled.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 50:17Joe Rogan?

  But you know, the argument about taking time off, it does reset the brain. Like, you know who used to do that? I know he's not a fighter, but Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman is crazy as he used to lift when he was Mr. Olympia and he was one of the heaviest lifters of all time. I mean, he would do.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  He's a freak.

• 50:33Joe Rogan?

  He's a freak. Ronnie, when he would like get done with Mr. Olympia, he would like, I don't know, doing shit. He wouldn't do anything for a couple of months, like no training at all. And they'd be like, nothing at all? He goes, nope, nothing, nothing.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:45Joe Rogan?

  He goes, I gotta reset, gotta reset, but imagine being so driven that you could train the way that guy trained. And yet so wise that you're like, I get it back. Let me just like, let me just chill.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:59Joe Rogan?

  Let me just chill. And it wasn't like it turned him into a lazy person, like that's what everyone's afraid of. I'm gonna lose this momentum. I'm doing so good. Everything's going so great. I'm working so hard. I want to keep working hard. Cause we've all had, i- if you live a life, you're gonna have ups and you're gonna have downs. And like you were going through your thyroid issue, there's gonna be times where you don't have a lot of energy. So when you're feeling good, you wanna keep going, right? And this guy gets to Mr. Olympia, but he has the wisdom to go, you know what? I can get that back. Right now, let's just not do shit and let this, let this mind recover. Let this stress just go away. Let it slip out of my life.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  That's what I try, man. Uh, I, I kinda learned like, cause I always have traveled for camps since I was probably three or four and O as a pro, or three and one as a pro, three or four fights in as a pro. I was, I was traveling. I was going to Rufus Sport for a long time. I stayed there for a long time. Then I went to Florida for a long time and now I'm not, Chicago and uh, always.

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  What Jimmy you on now?

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Uh, Valley Flow and like War Room with Bilal Mohammed.

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  Bilal, yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  So, and that's been a great change. Yeah, man, he's so good. Both the brother, he got a little brother.

• 52:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 52:12Speaker 02

  He's a stud. He's a stud.

• 52:13Joe Rogan?

  I believe it if it comes out of that family. Bilal Mondays is a beast.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  He's a stud. The little brother is a stud. He helped me for Marvin's fight, I think. And then Nacho helped me a little bit for this one, this last one.

• 52:25Joe Rogan?

  How did you choose going to Chicago?

• 52:28Speaker 02

  I've known Bilal since Rufus Sport and uh, obviously we stayed in contact. You know, when we see each other, it's like we never, you know, haven't seen each other. And he's always told me like, bro, just come down, just come check it out. You don't have to stay or nothing, like stay at my house, but you don't have to move here or nothing. Just come check it out. So I watched his, his rise and what he does and his work ethic and his team. And um, after the fluffy loss, like I just, I kinda sat back, had some conversations with people that are really close to me and explaining like, what was going on with me, like mentally and where I felt. And um, I, Bilal was one of the people I talked to and he's like, I know what the problem is and everyone that I talked to, which wasn't a lot, they all said exactly the same thing. So I was like, B, can I come, can I come?

• 53:12Joe Rogan?

  What's the problem? What was the problem?

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Complacency. I know like who I can train with and I go hard. I'm, I'm the coach of my own thing, like I'm running my whole, like whole camp basically, I go to.

• 53:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you were running your whole camp?

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Basically, I, I'd be like.

• 53:24Joe Rogan?

  You go to Wagner's for jiu-jitsu?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd go to Wagner's for jiu-jitsu, I'd go to, I'd be at Kill Cliff, but I'd be in the corner doing my thing, cause you had the Russian coach over here teaching some crazy stuff that don't make no sense.

• 53:34Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Like they'd be teaching some stuff off the wall that would never work.

• 53:38Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, but the kid, like the kid, the Russian kids, like they were in the classes, like they got young, young guys, like Ansar, Nikita, like um, Bai Sangor, he wasn't even there, like those guys, they were like, come over here, let's do something else. Like they have like real MMA knowledge, cause they fight and they've learned from, you know, all the guys from where they're from. But uh.

• 53:59Joe Rogan?

  So who are these Russian coaches that are teaching wild chess?

• 54:00Speaker 02

  It was just one, man, uh.

• 54:03Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to say his name.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was just, he's not there no more, but um.

• 54:06Joe Rogan?

  But he was a legit coach?

• 54:08Speaker 02

  He never fought.

• 54:10Joe Rogan?

  Okay, did he fight in anything? Kickboxing?

• 54:11Speaker 02

  Never, I'm, nope.

• 54:13Joe Rogan?

  Nothing?

• 54:13Speaker 02

  I don't know if he even competed in wrestling, to be honest with you, ever. I don't know.

• 54:17Joe Rogan?

  Okay, is he, like, does he spar with people?

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  How old is he?

• 54:21Speaker 02

  I, I would say in his thirties, I would say.

• 54:23Joe Rogan?

  What? Really?

• 54:24Speaker 02

  I would say, yeah, I would guess.

• 54:25Joe Rogan?

  And he's a coach?

• 54:26Speaker 02

  They.

• 54:28Joe Rogan?

  But he's coaching unorthodox stuff? Like what kind of stuff?

• 54:30Speaker 02

  Like stuff against the wall, but it was like, for instance, I don't remember what it was, it was against the wall. I was going with my friend AJ, Aaron Jeffries, and uh, he, it was some takedown off the wall, right? AJ couldn't get it, I was like, bro, this, and I don't say it out loud, cause I don't want no problems, you know, like,

• 54:46Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  I'm gonna just go with the flow and mind my business, but you know, I've been doing it long enough to where it's like you've realized, this move's probably not gonna work for my body type or my, my game, but I'll try it.

• 54:54Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  And so anyway, he was doing it and AJ's like, bro, I don't get it, I was like, yeah, cause this shit ain't gonna work, bro. He was like, what? I was like, it's not gonna work, I'm telling you. So he calls the coach over and he was like, huh, can you do? The guy looks at me, he goes, he's telling him, then he looks at me and goes, stop it.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Me? He's like, "Yeah." I was like, "Bet." He tries to do it, I literally grab his wrist, grab his head, and throw him. Boom!

• 55:22Joe Rogan?

  Is he your size?

• 55:23Speaker 02

  He's bigger than me.

• 55:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  Throw him.

• 55:25Joe Rogan?

  And so it didn't work?

• 55:26Speaker 02

  No! He's like, "Let me try one more time, let's go full speed." I said, "Shit, that was full speed." Do the exact same thing, but do it the other way now. Boom, throw him again. AJ looks at me.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  He says, the coach says something, I was like, then I get agitated, right? Then I'm like, "Man, that's because this shit ain't gonna work." "I told y'all, y'all don't listen to me." I just walked off.

• 55:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's not good vibes.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  You know, so I just walk off. And I was like, "I ain't taking this damn class no more."

• 55:51Joe Rogan?

  So how did this guy become a coach there?

• 55:53Speaker 02

  Sticking around and translating.

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  You know?

• 55:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there's those weird guys like that. I'm not saying that this guy's like that, but

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:00Joe Rogan?

  There are some weird guys like that become parasitic. You know, they're like friends with a guy who's a really good fighter, and then they're always there, and then they want to be a part of the team somehow, and then they start contributing, or they start maybe running conditioning drills or something, and you're like, "Why is this guy running conditioning drills?"

• 56:16Speaker 02

  That's exactly how it went.

• 56:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's the worst.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  Exactly how it went, literally.

• 56:20Joe Rogan?

  There's weird parasitic relationships in any elite, like, thing. Whether it's sports, I see it in comedy. There's some comedians that have weird parasitic friends that wind up, you know, becoming a producer on their thing, and there's just some guy who just, just like a lamprey clinging to the bottom of a shark.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  It got weird for a little while, especially at the end, it did, like, when I was still there. With that whole thing, because even some of the other coaches started to catch on, because at Killcliff, you know, sometimes we have a lot of guys fighting, like, all over the place, so coaches would be gone and

• 56:52Joe Rogan?

  Right, of course.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  You know, figure that situation out, so he'd step in and try to help, and It just got weird, but like, again, I'm not the kind of person that really cause a conflict. Like, I'd rather just like, if, like, just for instance, if you're causing something, like, some type of energy with me, I'm gonna just move over here and just stay out your way.

• 57:09Joe Rogan?

  That's smart. The world needs more people like you.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Well, my younger self would have, I want a conflict. I'm gonna show you.

• 57:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, of course. But as you go wiser.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:19Joe Rogan?

  And you realize, like, what's the, also, you're an elite professional mixed martial arts fighter. You ain't got shit to prove to somebody.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  That's kinda how I feel now, I see some of these younger kids. I feel, I see some of these younger kids now, and I'm just like, "I'm gonna just stay over here."

• 57:33Joe Rogan?

  It gets people hurt, it ruins your life.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  And that's what it'd be for me. I don't want that to happen, because like I have kids, I have a wife, I have a good life, I live very nice, like, as far as like my lifestyle, like, I'm here with you right now, you know?

• 57:46Joe Rogan?

  Also, it's fucking pointless. I've seen bar fights where, you know, there's young guys and they just like see an opportunity, they wanna prove something and like, I just wanna tell them, like, hey man, one day you're gonna be thirty-five, you're gonna be looking back on this day, and maybe it's the day you got stabbed. Maybe it's the day you got shot, you know, maybe it's the day you got knocked the fuck out, your head bounced off the concrete and you'll never be the same person again.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, like exactly what you said, it's just not worth it, like.

• 58:12Joe Rogan?

  You know Kevin James, the comedian?

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, he used to come to the gym.

• 58:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's awesome. He trains a lot. Good friend of mine, I've been friends of mine for thirty years. When I first met him, he told me a story of when he was bouncing. When he was bouncing in a bar in Long Island, one of his friends there was a bouncer, and some drunk kid was starting shit and he knocked this kid out and the kid fell down and hit his head and died. And he wound up doing time. He went to jail for manslaughter.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  One of my best friends got stabbed in the face in New Orleans, cuz he was, he didn't even know, he was talking to this dude's chick and he didn't know.

• 58:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  He didn't know, like she didn't say nothing, she came up to him, he was just at the bar. Dude came and stabbed him in the face, broke his jaw, stabbed him and ran. He has a, he has a nice scar. It's, he's older now, so it's kinda went away, but like through his beard, but wired his jaw shut, he was messed up for a while, you know? In the face.

• 59:04Joe Rogan?

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• 59:36Joe Rogan?

  Ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. And someone trying to stab you in the face is easily trying to stab you in the neck.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 59:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you just got lucky.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  So it's like-

• 59:45Joe Rogan?

  You just got lucky to hit that jaw and not your fucking carotid artery. Oh my god. I watched a video of these guys in London. And they're yelling at each other and squaring off at each other, back and forth and back and forth. And then finally they get out of it and one guy just pulls out a fucking knife and slices this dude's neck. And this dude is just squirting out of his neck. And he tries to fight for a second, then he just gets woozy and, and he's just squirting as he goes down. I don't know what happened. I'm assuming he died because I'm looking at the amount of blood loss. If someone didn't jump on that and compress it. And even if you did, the carotid artery is like such a significant amount of blood that's going through there. Depending on, I guess, the damage.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Dude, I think I had like-

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  So stupid.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  I've always heard this story. Obviously, you know how stories are, but. I've heard from a couple of different people. I have like a great uncle somewhere along the line. He passed out, passed away before I was alive. He was in a bar. I know right where the, where the place is, everything's, the building's still there to this day. He was in the bar, he was sitting down having some drinks with a friend. Don't, I don't know the relationship between him and the guy. The guy walked up behind him, slit his throat.

• 1:00:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh god.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  He, he missed the carotid arteries, both of them, by like not even a quarter of an inch. Like not even eight them inch, he missed both of them. So it was just here.

• 1:00:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh shit.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  He chased the guy out, almost beat him to death, and then almost died because he couldn't breathe like.

• 1:01:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh god.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  But almost beat the guy to death. Almost, almost died. So two people almost died.

• 1:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Bro, nightclubs are so bad.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  I've never been a club. I hate, like, a group of people, I hate it. I get very off setting.

• 1:01:16Joe Rogan?

  There's too many people on coke, there's too many people that are stupid. There's too many people that wanna like, "Bro, I fucking see red." And, you know, there's too many dummies. When I was a kid, when I was 21 years old, I was at a bar and I watched this guy hit a guy in the face with a Heineken bottle. Out of no, out of nowhere, over nothing. I was standing by the bar and there was just two guys, they were as close as Jamie is to me. And they were talking to each other like loud voices, but nothing crazy. Like no physical shit. And this guy just takes a Heineken bottle off the bar and smashes it on his face. And there was blood everywhere. This guy was just, just leaking. All over his face. I was like, the guy's face is destroyed for the rest of his life. Over literally nothing, literally nothing.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  It's crazy, man.

• 1:02:01Joe Rogan?

  It's just, there's too many people out there that are fucking stupid, man. And you get sucked into their gravity.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  You know, you're like the guys that like, they're like, if they know who you are, they'll be like, oh, you can fight? I can shoot. I'm like, alright, so can I. Congratulations, man.

• 1:02:16Joe Rogan?

  Fight each other or shoot each other?

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  That's my-

• 1:02:18Joe Rogan?

  Hi, my name is Brendan.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  That's my thing now. I'm like, bro, I don't want to fight or shoot you. Just leave me alone and leave my family alone. We're good, bro. I don't, I don't want no problems with nobody.

• 1:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, the problem is there's too many people out there that haven't proven themselves. They don't have a thing in their life that gives them a challenge all the time where they're proving themselves. So every time they go out, they're trying to prove themselves. Every time they go out, they're trying to puff their chest out and be Billy Badass. And it's, it's so dangerous. And here's where you don't see that. Trained fighters.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  Dude, I used to bounce that a little, like something small. And I needed the money, obviously. And I will never forget, man, this little dude, he had to be like this tall, short and fat. He, he was, I don't know how tipsy he was, I don't know, right? But all the guys know that I was fighting. I was LFA at the time. And they're like, they always told me, hey, man, don't worry about hitting nobody. If someone swings at you, I got you. Or just hit him and say, I did it. And I was like, I'm good, bro. I'm good. I just smile.

• 1:03:20Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't get you in trouble?

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were super cool, right? Who knows if that would have really been how it went? I don't know, you know, but anyway-

• 1:03:25Joe Rogan?

  If you really fuck somebody up and there was a lawsuit, I guarantee you they'd have dropped your name.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  Dude, they, they, there was a bartender there. He fricking, I watched it with my own two eyes in the front. This dude and him got into it. The guy slipped, because he pushed him and he slipped. It was a little wet. Dude, he soccer kicked him so hard in the face. So hard. I was like- He got arrested for that.

• 1:03:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  You know, but that, but that little kid, he swung at me. And I don't even know if he hit me or hit my hand. He hit something, right? And I'm laughing. I'm laughing. I'm like, I couldn't believe it, like.

• 1:03:57Joe Rogan?

  He had that cocaine courage, son.

• 1:03:58Speaker 02

  He must have. Bro, I'm laughing. I'm literally doing this. And because I was gonna stick him with the right, but he was so little, like, I was like.

• 1:04:06Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  No way. And how I saw the punch come, I was like, don't do it.

• 1:04:10Joe Rogan?

  There are some people out there that have no idea how to fight, and yet they still try to fight. They have no weapon. They don't have a, a good punch. They don't have a background in wrestling. They don't have a damn thing. And yet they'll still decide they want to fight someone and just hope. In today's day and age, how can you hope that people don't know how to fight? I think if you run into 10 guys, one of them can fight today.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:04:33Joe Rogan?

  It's probably the most in human history, in terms, other than like Spartan days. Most in human history, and even back then, how good was their technique?

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:04:43Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 1:04:43Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 1:04:44Joe Rogan?

  They probably didn't even know about calf kicks.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  Dude, it's like, my dad grew up boxing, right? So, my dad, he would always tell me, like, growing up, he was a little bitch. He was like, I used to get my ass kicked until he had, he had to move in with his grandfather. His grandfather, World War II vet, shot twice, grew up boxing.

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  Probably the most rugged man that you'll ever meet. I met him once before he passed away. His voice was so gruff, like, he's a man's man, you know, like, one of those. Doesn't say nothing, really. And, uh, so he raised my dad. And he used to step outside, like, kind of mess with him, box, like, he put him in boxing. But he knocked my dad out one time, and my dad was like, you know, well, man, come on, let's test it. Stepped on his foot and slapped him. And, uh, but anyway, so like, when he was in high school, though.

• 1:05:34Joe Rogan?

  That's a fucked up thing to do to your kid.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  Dude, he said, my dad said he didn't care about nothing. My dad said he literally watched him smash his finger flat with a hammer. The nerves flew out. Like, they were still attached, they flew out.

• 1:05:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:05:45Speaker 02

  Hit his head on, uh, throwing, uh, bales of hay in the loft. Smoked his head on a railroad spike that was in the wood. Uh, cracked his skull. He didn't know till two days later. They said if he would've waited a couple, like 12 more hours, he would've been dead cuz all the swelling on his brain. They had to cut his brain, uh, his skull off to let the fluid come out.

• 1:06:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  Crazy old, just stubborn old man, you know?

• 1:06:07Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy dude to your grandson though. Sl- sleeping like that?

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Dude, he said, my dad said, my dad said, he s- he said, we were messing around. He's like, alright, like, quit messing with me. He always told him that. Leave me alone. He kept on, kept on. He stepped on his foot and my dad said, "Quit stepping." He said, that's all he remembers.

• 1:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Old school trick. Slept in. My dad said when he woke up, he had the worst like migraine and he was on the porch drinking a thing, I think, tea. And he was like, "Hey, get your ass up and go clean the dog pen. Get to work." That's how it was.

• 1:06:36Joe Rogan?

  Those dudes who came up through World War II were, that's a different kinda human being.

• 1:06:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, so it's like.

• 1:06:41Joe Rogan?

  Different kinda human being.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Like, that's, that's just kinda like how my dad was. So like, when he got to high school, like, he wasn't the kinda go look for trouble, but he was the kinda person, like, my dad told me as well, like, you stick up for the people that can't stick up for themselves.

• 1:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  Or if someone fucks with you, like, do what you gotta do. Just don't, like nowadays, he's like, don't put your hands, like, don't throw, punch at them first unless they get an arm reach. Then you throw a punch first. Don't ever let someone hit you.

• 1:07:06Joe Rogan?

  Kinda like you too. You could just choke somebody.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, now, but it's like.

• 1:07:09Joe Rogan?

  Hurt him. You could just put him to sleep.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  And that's more, I'm a, I'm a good hugger, so it's like, I prefer that. But my dad's like, mean, man, like, he's different. Like, and he, he, like, he was in the military and he boxed when he was overseas for like 75 bucks cuz he'd send all his money home to us, so it's like, like, I don't know, like, people don't know.

• 1:07:27Joe Rogan?

  Different kinds of human beings, man.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  I come from something like, that's what I feel like when I fight, like, I'm different, like, I, I honestly, I, uh, I was telling myself that in the Marvin fight in between rounds, like, going into the third. Cuz my dad and my brother were both there in attendance for the first time. Like, my brother hadn't been in any of my fights since probably my second pro fight cuz of his injury. And uh, so like my, I watched my buddy Costello fight uh, for the PFL belt. And he said after the fight, like, he said word for word, he's like, I was um, I was raised by a warrior. He raised two warriors, I'm a fucking warrior. And he's like, that's, that's what I told myself. And so like, that stuck in my head till the fight, like till my fight. So like, in the third round, like, everyone was like, oh, he falls off in the third. And that was something like my corner was, cause that was my first time in Chicago.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  So like, Horacio looked at me in between rounds and he was like, hey, let's go. Like, let's, let's restart it. He said something else. And I was like, I'm good, just get out of the way. Like, you know, that's, that, it's kind of one of those moments where it's like, you're living in the moment, but, I don't know.

• 1:08:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think just having a coach is really important. It's really important, especially having an elite coach. Having a coach that's really on top of it, you know?

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:39Joe Rogan?

  I guess, Saif Saoud, uh, you know, Farazah Abi, Duke Rufus. Having someone who's like, really on it, really watching you, really knows what you need, really knows when you need to back off. Cause the fact that you did so well, and that you were coaching yourself, is kind of fucking crazy.

• 1:08:56Speaker 02

  Well, when I say, I had coaches. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:09:00Joe Rogan?

  But you didn't have a main coach.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  Yes, sir, exactly.

• 1:09:03Joe Rogan?

  That's the difference. So, for people that don't know, okay, if you're listening to this and you're just interested in MMA, generally, there's a striking coach. Usually, they have some sort of a Muay Thai or kickboxing background. You generally have wrestling coaches, you generally have jiu-jitsu coaches. And if you're a really good gym, you got one guy who knows how to put it all together.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:22Joe Rogan?

  And those are the maestros. Da, da, da. Those are the guys who are like, conducting the entire orchestra. And they know you. And if a, a good guy knowing his fighter is like an artist. And I think you can only have a certain amount of people that you're working really closely with, because it's a very involved and intensive job. Like Eric Nixick. That's a guy, he gets down into the nitty gritty of every fucking thing you guys are doing. He's watching you. He knows what you need, he knows what you don't need, you know, it's like, it's also, you got a guy who could just say, push it off to him, he knows what to do. He's gonna give you game plans in between rounds. Okay, this is working, but we need more of this. He does this all the time. When he does, the reason why he's getting away with it is because of that. Get it in your head, go out there. When I hear guys, and the guy's losing, and they get no technical advice, and, and they start getting,

• 1:10:07Joe Rogan?

  go fuck him up, you gotta fuck him up, you gotta put hands on him, like. And I'm like, oh my god, tell him what to do, he knows how to fight.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Get on top. Get on top.

• 1:10:16Joe Rogan?

  Tell them what to do.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  Stand up.

• 1:10:18Joe Rogan?

  And I get it, you only have a minute. I get it. And I get it, everybody's panicking if things are going wrong. I get it, but my god.

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  It's been different.

• 1:10:25Joe Rogan?

  Having a good coach, having like a farasa hobby type dude in your corner who just really understands what you need to do. So fucking important.

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  It's been one of the best changes that I have, because I ain't gonna lie, I'm not the easiest person to deal with, like. I like to be very in control of things that I can control. And I know myself, like I I I've done a lot, I've been around a lot. So like, I know like, hey man, like, I'm feeling it today, like, my body's kinda done. No, no, no, no, go, go, go, hundred percent, you know?

• 1:10:56Joe Rogan?

  Do you monitor all your shit? Do you monitor your resting heart rate?

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, now, I don't, usually I have my whoop on, because I used to have the aura, but it hurt, like, I couldn't train with it, so.

• 1:11:05Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  But, uh, I I know, I just took it off because I was training jujitsu.

• 1:11:09Joe Rogan?

  Aura's a little bit of a problem when you lift weights, too.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Exactly. I pinch my finger so bad.

• 1:11:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, you ever seen sheathing injuries? You ever seen those?

• 1:11:17Speaker 02

  What is it, where it rips the skin of your finger off?

• 1:11:19Joe Rogan?

  The first time I ever saw one, I never saw him in person, but the first time I ever saw one, it was somebody, uh, who did jujitsu. And they did jujitsu with a ring on, like a wedding ring, and just fucking mangled their finger. Well, it's called sheathing, because it pulls all your skin off the bone like a sheath you would stick a knife in.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I didn't know that's what it was called.

• 1:11:37Joe Rogan?

  That's what it's called, it's like a sheath. Here's some, some of these injuries.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  I saw it like that.

• 1:11:41Joe Rogan?

  Bro, look at that.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 1:11:44Joe Rogan?

  Ew.

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  The first time I ever seen it was someone in a gi, a gi. It got caught in the gi.

• 1:11:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god, really?

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  Like you said, took the skin off. Yeah, he had the wedding ring, and he had, I I think he made the grip on the, on the sleeve. And when the guy pulled, it like, took, it like, caught that like fat, that little muscle or whatever right there.

• 1:12:01Joe Rogan?

  And ripped his fucking skin off his finger?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  The whole skin.

• 1:12:03Joe Rogan?

  I've never seen that.

• 1:12:04Speaker 02

  Dude, it was so nasty. Like you said, I was like, oh my god. So now I am a hundred percent sure that I don't wear my wedding ring. That's why it's tattooed on my finger, because when I go to camp, I don't, I don't wear a wedding ring. She knows, when I get to camp, I take it off, I put it in my truck. When camp is over and I get home from the fight, I put it back on.

• 1:12:21Joe Rogan?

  I don't have mine on now, because I just came from the gym, but I used to have a silicone one, well, not used to. I have a silicone one that I use all the time, that, uh, I can work out with it, I can do anything with it.

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What is that company, Ridge? Is that what it is? No, that's the wallet company. Is that what it is?

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  Shit, they're making all kinds of stuff. Now, they got luggage and everything.

• 1:12:40Joe Rogan?

  It's a good one. It's, there's, uh, there's, um, it looks like an aura ring too. But it's, it's made out of silicone. So even if you catch it on something, it's no big deal. But even that, I forget which, which coach it was. I forget which coach. It's like, like an elite jujitsu coach. He goes, "I refuse to let a guy even train with that." He goes, "I've seen too many injuries." Too many injuries where your finger just gets mangled by having that fucking stupid thing on there.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  That's nasty. That's like-

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  Groove ring.

• 1:13:05Joe Rogan?

  Groove, that's it, yeah.

• 1:13:06Speaker 02

  I feel like that with like-

• 1:13:07Joe Rogan?

  Those are legit.

• 1:13:08Speaker 02

  Knee injuries and like dislocations.

• 1:13:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh dude, you know what creeps me the most is broken shins. When I see that, that shin check, when the shin snaps, like, ah! If there's ever a fight that I think a guy should have pulled out that didn't, and if I was his friend, I would have told him, "You cannot fight." It's Connor, when he fought Dustin. The second fight with Dustin, excuse me, the third fight with Dustin when his shin snapped in half. You know, they knew that he had some sort of a hairline fracture on his shin.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:13:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  I never knew that.

• 1:13:36Joe Rogan?

  He already had MRIs and everything. They knew something was really wrong with it.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, screw that. No, I don't know.

• 1:13:41Joe Rogan?

  And he didn't even, it didn't even like go shin to knee or anything like that. Like it usually snaps. That's how compromised it was. If you watch that fight, there is one time where Dustin checks it, and he checks the kick and he looked at him, he pointed at him like, "I know that hurt you bitch." Like he like got in his head. And that was also after Dustin had just KO'd him in the last fight. So this was the third fight.

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:04Joe Rogan?

  And it was weird, man, because in the first fight, it was like, "Nice guy Connor." It was like, "Nice guy Connor," even after the fight. Like after the fight, he was being cool. He got KO'd. His leg got fucked up with those calf kicks. And after the fight, he was so respectful. I'm like, "Look, Connor turned a corner."

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  Not the third one.

• 1:14:21Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:31Joe Rogan?

  Visit betterhelp.com to explore your payment options. That's better, H E L P, dot com.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Oh, bro, it's so funny, but it's like, I know where Dustin, he comes from like a same vibe that I come from and like, same things probably bother him. So when he said that, you could see Dustin, like even though he just whooped him, he was like, like, you know.

• 1:16:57Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy to say while you're lying there with a broken leg.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  For sure, you know.

• 1:17:00Joe Rogan?

  A guy could just keep fighting.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  He took it well, though. You know, who took it the best that I've seen personally, Tyrone Spong. When he snapped his in half, he's just sitting there. We talk about this too. I'm like, bro, how'd you sit there just like? He's like, to be honest, I think he said like, to be honest, I was looking shocked at first and I was like, what am I gonna do?

• 1:17:19Joe Rogan?

  It is what it is.

• 1:17:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, what am I gonna do? Like, it sucks.

• 1:17:22Joe Rogan?

  That's wise.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was a G.

• 1:17:23Joe Rogan?

  That is, that was against Gokhan Saki too.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:27Joe Rogan?

  That was a kickboxing fight.

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember to this day.

• 1:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Rare in a kickboxing fight, isn't it interesting? It's way more common in an MMA fight. I've only seen it a couple of times in kickbo- I've seen it, God, thank God, thank, because of Instagram. Luckily, I get to see every fucking horrific injury that's ever happened. God, I seen, it seems like, I never saw it until one, who was the first time? Was it Corey Hill? I think it was Corey Hill was the first guy who broke his, and Corey was like a real tall, thin guy. I believe he fought at 145, and he was something crazy, like 6'3" at 145.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:18:01Joe Rogan?

  Was real tall and skinny, and who did he fight?

• 1:18:07Joe Rogan?

  Jamie O'Fenney.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  He passed away, right?

• 1:18:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes, he did, unfortunately.

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  He fought in Louisiana, Good Big, because I remember when he passed away, they were doing some stuff for him there.

• 1:18:15Joe Rogan?

  So that was, um, also, the referee didn't notice it.

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  Dale?

• 1:18:22Speaker 03

  It just says Dale H. on the thing.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  Oh, bro, that gets me.

• 1:18:33Joe Rogan?

  So, during the fight, the referee didn't notice it, so they kept fighting, and I put my headsets down, and I got up and I, I was screaming, "Stop the fight, stop the fight." The referee didn't notice it. He didn't notice that the guy's leg broke. So they were still scrapping on the ground.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  I, I hope that was the end, because how you not notice that? His leg is literally in a U.

• 1:18:55Joe Rogan?

  It's just a bad, uh, angle, you know? You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Well, looking at where the referee's standing, there's actually kind of no excuse. There it is.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  See it falls back, look, it's lit.

• 1:19:17Speaker 02

  Dang.

• 1:19:19Joe Rogan?

  Dale Hart.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  You saw it instantly on your monitor?

• 1:19:22Joe Rogan?

  I saw it instantly in the cage.

• 1:19:25Speaker 02

  Dang.

• 1:19:26Joe Rogan?

  I wasn't watching the monitor. I don't even think we had monitors back then.

• 1:19:29Speaker 02

  I was just about to ask that question.

• 1:19:30Joe Rogan?

  I don't think we had monitors back then. We didn't have monitors for a while. The monitors were my idea.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:19:34Joe Rogan?

  I was like, we have to have monitors. I want to see monitors. I want to see replays. I want to see shit.

• 1:19:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:38Joe Rogan?

  It was early, early in the UFC. I was like, we need monitors. You know, and also the judges should get fucking monitors too.

• 1:19:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, now it's, it's nice. I'll sit behind you sometimes and see it.

• 1:19:47Joe Rogan?

  Actually, now that I'm thinking of that, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we did have monitors. Maybe I was asking for other things. Maybe I was asking for monitors for the judges. Like, when did they start having monitors in the UFC? I don't know. But I always try to watch the actual fight. I want to see the actual fight. Yeah. I mean, I like, you get a better view if the cage is there, but I mean, fuck, man, you're five feet away from the best fights on earth. You want to see it, see it. I don't want to be on TV, watching TV. That's crazy.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, you got the best seat in the house.

• 1:20:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's the craziest seat ever. So when did they start doing it? 2011. Is that for judges? Yeah. That was definitely my idea. Or, well, there was other people that had that same idea, but I'm like, you need to do this. This is, because there were some of them that were so bad, some, some calls that were so bad. It's like, there's no way these guys are seeing everything. You know, if there's a pillar here and a guy lands an elbow and you're judging and you don't see it, like, what do you do? What do you say? That might have been the most pivotal moment in the fight. Like, what are you doing? You have to see it. The judging thing is crazy, man. Because some, there's, there's judges that don't even train. They've never trained MMA. They don't, they don't have any jujitsu skill. They don't know what's going on.

• 1:20:54Joe Rogan?

  In the middle of a fight once, this lady leaned over to my friend, who was also worked for one of the commissions, and said, "What is he doing?"

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:21:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It was an Americana. It was a normal move. It was like, what is he doing?

• 1:21:13Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. It was either Americana or Kamura, I'm not sure if I remember.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  I would have messed with him, I'd be like, he's trying to bite him. What? I don't know.

• 1:21:22Joe Rogan?

  But imagine, this is a person that's in char- so the really horrible thing about it, a bad decision, it's not just that you get a loss on your record, but you get half your paycheck. Which I think is really fucked up. I think that needs to stop. I think you should have a designated amount that you're fighting for, and if you want to have a stoppage bonus, or you want to, you know, give someone some sort of a bonus for an excellent performance, that's great, that incentivizes them to try harder to stop somebody. But a bad decision that can cost you half your purse is crazy. It's crazy.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  You know, I had a...

• 1:21:58Speaker 02

  I'm getting older, you know, so I try to be, have a little bit more wisdom. So after, like, I lost to Fluffy, I was like, I went back and watched the fight like six times, and I'm like... I really don't see how I lost on a decision. Like, I can see like your point if you use this frame of mind, but based on the unified rules at the time, how? So I, dude, I reached out to like a lot of people that I knew that are like in the, high up in commissions and like, I had really deep talks with them about it, like, explain my perspective, listen to theirs, the rules, and literally it came down to... It's your interpretation. It's your interpretation of the rules. And it was like, it came down to, is his effective grappling,

• 1:22:42Speaker 02

  even if they're holding, they're still, you know, whatever, does it outweigh me almost knocking you out, and me putting a cut all the way to your skull on your face, and you holding me? Which one outweighs what? That's how I explained it to him, and they were like, "Oh, but he just had more time." I said...

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  And, look, don't get me wrong, I love Fluffy, I think he's a great human being, I really do, I've known him, we fought twice already. And he's beat me both times, both decisions, you know, and um, but I don't think I lost the last one. I still stay, I'll still die on that hill.

• 1:23:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was a very good fight. It was a very close fight. I see what you're saying though, and it was one of the things that we brought up during this past uh, fight with Marab and Piotr Jan. And I'm like, if you're looking at it in terms of just damage, Piotr Jan is clearly doing more damage.

• 1:23:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:30Joe Rogan?

  He's hitting Marab with shots that rock him. He kicks him in the body. He's got him screaming. There was never a moment where Marab did that to Piotr. Even when he hit him with good shots, Piotr was firing back.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:43Joe Rogan?

  Damage is huge. It's what the sport is really about. The sport is really about either damage or coming really close to putting someone out, like submitting them.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  And it's just weird, man.

• 1:23:52Joe Rogan?

  That's what the sport's about. And when it's just holding, when a guy holds and doesn't do anything with it, it's like that, it's, look, it's an effective strategy. And if you're fighting a guy who could fuck you up standing and that's all you could do to survive, I understand. Like, I have no problem with boring fights. I really don't. And I know the cat, the fans are like, fucking, "Separate him!" You know, "Fucking separate him!" I have no problem with boring fights, because I think if you can let a guy just hold on to you, that is a part of the game.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:23Joe Rogan?

  If a guy takes you down and holds you down, I think you should be there. A round's only five minutes. I don't believe in stand-ups. And I know that sounds crazy, but even if it's boring as shit, and sometimes I'm happy when they stand people up, I really am. But if it was my rules, if I could make the rules, I'd be like, never stand a person up. Unless there's a violation of the rules.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:24:41Joe Rogan?

  Never stand a person up, because it's part of the sport. If it's boring, it's boring.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  You know, we talked about it after the fight, like, after the fight, like, I went in the back and I was frustrated at my, at myself, really, to be honest. I was super frustrated at myself. Well, first it was, I was like, "Fuck, they just let him fucking hold the whole time." Like, in the third, I literally almost knocked him out. Da-da-da-da-da, like, I'm talking shit, right? And uh, Robbie looks at me, Robbie Lawler, and he goes, "Should've just got up then." I went... You're right.

• 1:25:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  You're right.

• 1:25:12Joe Rogan?

  That's some Robbie Lawler wisdom right there.

• 1:25:14Speaker 02

  And that's, and from there, I was like, alright.

• 1:25:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  But then I found out after, like, one of Fluffy's coaches is, um, he used to be in the commission, like, so he knows the, they, they explained his pedigree or whatever, and he's very, very, very knowledgeable about what the rules are and all these things. So they, he strategizes, I guess, certain things around that.

• 1:25:37Joe Rogan?

  So he strategizes certain things around the rules.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I, that's what I heard. That's what, that's what they told me.

• 1:25:42Joe Rogan?

  I've met a lot of guys do that.

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  He canceled, like, he, he was in the commission, like, part of it, like, I guess, worked for them, and he's like, he pulled out of working there because he wanted to be for Fluffy more, which is admirable. But, like, he didn't want to have, like, a conflict of interest.

• 1:25:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  So I thought that was pretty cool, but like, I will say, like, what Fluffy did really good, that I was prepared for, like, wrestling like crazy. But I wrestle with guys that are like folk style wrestlers. What he does very well is he don't shoot normal shots. He don't, he doesn't shoot like a double or a single. He shoots, like, it looks like it's gonna be a double, but he's only at your hips. He's just trying to get your hips. Then he's circling right away if he can, or putting you to the cage and working his sequences from there. But he has very awkward shots. They're so weird. Like, I could see them, and I was like, oh, I'm about to stuff it, but I'm the kind of guy, like, you gotta touch me and then I'm gonna go. I'm not just gonna react. That way you can set it up for something else.

• 1:26:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  But as soon as he touches me, like, in the second, he was, I didn't know how, uh, but I watched it back.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  I went to, like, catch a whizzer, and next thing you know, my feet came out from under me because we were both circling so hard. I was trying to get the whizzer, and he was trying to go to my back. And my feet came out from under me, and I just landed, like, on my shoulder. And I'm like, in the fight, I'm like, what the fuck just happened? There's no way. This is where my head's at. I'm like, no fucking way that he just did this. I'm like, what the fuck just happened? And my corner's yelling at me, his corner's yelling, and I'm still in my head like, what the fuck? Like, what just, and, and, dude, it took me like, probably a minute and a half to, to like, transfer into something else. And then I was like, ah, he's not doing nothing, so I'll just get him next round, which terrible frame of mindset we've worked on. And then the third, uh, but, yeah, man, I was like, still, like, after the fight, I was like, yo, I asked my boy, I was like, how'd he get me down there?

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  Like, he went for a guillotine. I said, I ain't go for no goddamn guillotine till the third. And then I swept him with it and stood back up. I was like, I didn't do that, I swear. But um, yeah, man, but like I said, but then he had a savage. He is a savage against Deleuze.

• 1:27:44Joe Rogan?

  He and he also has a crazy gas tank, man. He melts guys.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, man.

• 1:27:49Joe Rogan?

  That guy melts guys. The Deleuze thing, when he grabbed his neck and just like, like a bouncer at a nightclub, just dragged him back to finish him. That was crazy.

• 1:27:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, I, that's one thing I wish I would've gave, like, put more output. Like, cause I wasn't, everyone's like, you're tired. I was like, bro, I was having a full conversation like this in between rounds, right after the fight. I wasn't tired. I was just complacent, like, I was like, oh, like, I'm already gonna, cause I, I beat Malkun like that, cause all he did was hold, literally just held, and I'm hitting him. Bang, bang, bang. How am I supposed to improve my position? You're literally just holding. You're not even moving at all. You're not lifting your weight. You're not doing nothing.

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  So I won that fight, cause I did more damage and I had fight ending intentions. I felt I had that with Fluffy, so in the third, I was like, I'm elbowing him, and he's gushing blood. And I'm looking at the ref, I'm like, yo, he's just holding. I try to get up, he's just, he just picks my ankle and I go back down, I elbow him some more, try to get back up. He got on top for like a minute, but he didn't do nothing, really. Anyway, that's where my frame of mindset was at, and it was just terrible, you know, looking back, but um, I would love a third, you know?

• 1:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, it'll probably happen. It'll probably happen somewhere down the line, cause it'd be a great fight.

• 1:28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where, well, that's where the kind of the holdup is, I guess, right now, of like, obviously, you know how politics work in this game, but it's like, the top five is The Champion, Drakis, uh, no, I'm sorry, Champion, Drakis, Imovol, uh, Shawn Strickland, Fluffy, me. And it's like, alright, Shawn, they just announced Shawn and Fluffy. Imovol, yep, that's cool. And then, uh, Imovol's waiting. They've all, they both said they're, they're gonna wait for that one.

• 1:29:22Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:22Speaker 02

  So it's just me and Drakis. And then, right behind me is Izzy. Who knows when Izzy's gonna fight, or if he's gonna fight, or when.

• 1:29:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:29:28Speaker 02

  So it's like, waiting on Drakis, and Drakis always has a lot to say when I'm losing, but when I'm winning, he don't really have enough to say. And then, like, I just saw an interview like the other day, and it was like, uh, He was like, yeah, I'd love to, to, to beat his head in or something.

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  About you?

• 1:29:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, about me. And I'm like, well, you have the opportunity to do so and it only makes sense unless you want to wait forever. So.

• 1:29:51Joe Rogan?

  I wonder, um, what he does after that Hamzat fight. Cause when a guy dominates you like that, where it's so clear. It's just like one, one of those gaps that it looks like, oh, you're never going to bridge that gap.

• 1:30:04Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:30:04Joe Rogan?

  That grappling gap.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  And it's never gonna, that, I don't know if you agree, but that should never happen at that level.

• 1:30:12Joe Rogan?

  It will never does happen at that level. That's the real, except Islam and Jack Delamadalena. That's another similar situation.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:19Joe Rogan?

  Very similar situation. But I think there's, there's guys that you get in there with and you know, if you're used to a like B caliber guy. Or you know, a high, high level guy.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:30:32Joe Rogan?

  But there's, there's only a few real As and like Hamzat is a real A.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. What he's good at, he's a savage.

• 1:30:37Joe Rogan?

  I talked to DC about him and DC said, dude, when that guy grabbed me and he goes, we were wearing street clothes and everything like that. He goes, I realized like, oh, I'm going to have to wrestle wrestle to keep this guy off me. He was like, he was, he's fucking strong, man. And it's also because, first of all, how the fuck did that guy make 170?

• 1:30:57Speaker 02

  I don't know, but I don't understand how he talks about going up to 205. Cause like you said, you got guys like Pereira and don't get me wrong. I know they're stylistically different, but.

• 1:31:04Joe Rogan?

  I think he can do it. I think he can do it. I think he could do it if he takes the time and puts weight on.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. If he puts weight on, I think he has a high chance.

• 1:31:11Joe Rogan?

  Cause he's tall, you know, he's tall. And it's also, the thing is, it's like these gaps in wrestling, you know, these gaps in grappling. When a guy's a really good grappler and then you're taking on a guy like Tricus, he's really a striker.

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:31:23Joe Rogan?

  Who's a good, he's a good grappler, a good jujitsu guy, but there's levels, you know? And the kind of guy like Hamzat, like, man, you gotta be a fucking Olympic caliber wrestler to scrap with that guy.

• 1:31:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's like, I, I tell people like, I'm not going to go out there and straight beat Chimaev in pure wrestling. Like it's not going to happen. I'm not stupid. I'm not stupid, but it's MMA. Could I take him down? I mean, yeah, I could. But, there's other ways to approach the fight that I think I, I have the upper hand like, you see how, how other people have approached him and done well with him, but it's like, um...

• 1:31:56Joe Rogan?

  He also very good submissions too. You, you have a real solid jiu-jitsu game and you can strike. You know, you're, you, you've got a very complete package. And I think, you know, the thing about his grappling is that like you have that hole, if you have that hole, he's gonna find that hole and he's gonna smother you.

• 1:32:12Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:32:12Joe Rogan?

  And you're fucksville.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  That's what freaks, that's what like, makes no sense to me with the Drakis fight, right? Like, you're the champion of the world? He took you down, no problem, man. I totally understand. I get taken down a lot, you know? But, um, I mean, I know our styles are different, but you didn't try to hip bump? You didn't try to hip escape? You didn't try to scoop the leg and lift and elevate? You didn't try to do nothing? He didn't, literally, he didn't try to do nothing? He literally waited for him to establish his position? He'd roll side to side, maybe one hip bump around? When he did, Chumayev did great, knee sliced or just stepped over, passed, and went crucifix.

• 1:32:53Joe Rogan?

  Do you, how many times he put in the crucifix, by the way? That was crazy. It was crazy.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  It all had to be like once around, cause he wasn't getting out.

• 1:33:00Joe Rogan?

  It was, I mean, how many times did he put him into crucifix? In a world championship fight? Has there ever been a fight where a, a champion has been put in a crucifix that many times?

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  Insane.

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  It was over and over and over again. We were like, how is he doing this again? This is so crazy.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  And that, that kinda blew my mind, but, so that's why it's like...

• 1:33:17Joe Rogan?

  I just think Chumayev's gap is just so good. And I think also with a guy like Drakis, and you would be the guy to speak to this. When you're down and you, you realize, okay, it's the first round. He's taking me down, he's on top of me. Let me just conserve my energy. This is a five-round world championship fight. I'm gonna knock this motherfucker out. He's gonna get tired doing this. He always gets tired. But you know the difference with, um, Hamzah in this fight? He's, he trained with Sam Calavita. Do you know that guy?

• 1:33:42Speaker 02

  Uh-uh.

• 1:33:42Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:33:43Speaker 02

  I just heard he hired someone good.

• 1:33:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Calavita is a, a real elite strength and conditioning coach. And, uh, legendary guy. And he runs this, it's called, he just calls it the garage, okay? It's in Orange County, California. And it's just a fucking garage, and not even a big one. Just a small two-car garage with no cars in it. And it's all just machines and equipment. And he's got Armon Sorukian training down there, TJ Dillashaw. When he was in his prime, he was training down there. The reason why TJ's conditioning was that's such a fucking high... Level when he was in his prime was he was training with that guy. He has everybody that I know that's trained with him is like, bro, this guy puts you through fucking hell. Hell. This is, uh, that's TJ when he's training there. And again, this is like, if you see, there's Sam.

• 1:34:29Joe Rogan?

  If you see it like, and when you listen to the guy talk, just extremely fucking knowledgeable. But he gets you to the point, it's called the train, it's, uh, if you look at it online, training lab on Instagram. T R E I G N lab. Uh, Inglab, training, but training is T R E I G N, like train MMA.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I, I would know that name, the training lab, because I was like, man, what a weird way.

• 1:34:54Joe Rogan?

  That's it. So you see Aaron Pico's there with them. There's Hamzat. So, I mean, he's got so many elite guys that are training inside of that gym. There's Juan Ochoa.

• 1:35:05Speaker 02

  I wonder how they, how they work.

• 1:35:07Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:02Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:13Speaker 02

  That and obviously they have their coaches and stuff dealing with it, but like how they operate.

• 1:37:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think the issue with Hamzat was overtraining. So one of the things about Hamzat is he's apparently you can't kick him out of the fucking gym. He won't stop training. And you gotta, you gotta literally like stop him from training. He's a maniac. And when he got COVID, that's what really fucked him up. So he got COVID and you would think, whoa, healthy guy like that who gets COVID, that ain't gonna be shit for him. This silly motherfucker was training like an animal, two-hour sessions with COVID. So then, you know, he's never getting better. So instead of like saying, hey, this cold is not getting better, it's like, don't be pussy, I kill everyone. He shows up again, training again, two and a half hours, sick as a fucking dog, coughing.

• 1:38:02Joe Rogan?

  And then he broke his immune system down to a point where they had to fucking hospitalize him.

• 1:38:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember hearing that.

• 1:38:07Joe Rogan?

  Just from training while he had COVID. That's all it was. He just refused to stop training. And look, if you, I don't care what it is, the flu, whatever you have, you're trying to train two and a half hour days when you have a serious lung infection? You're gonna fucking die. There's DC, and DC told me he did one session with him.

• 1:38:25Speaker 03

  Resistance bands on the bike?

• 1:38:27Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 1:38:27Speaker 03

  Resistance bands on the bike?

• 1:38:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He uses elastic bands along with a fucking Rogue Echo Bike. Yeah, so those Rogue Echo Bikes, they suck enough. And to have resistance bands while you're doing it too.

• 1:38:40Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 1:38:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Now, Sam's an animal. And again, super knowledgeable, like knows like what your recovery should be.

• 1:38:49Joe Rogan?

  Where your resting heart rate should be.

• 1:38:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:51Joe Rogan?

  And also super knowledgeable in terms of like supplements, diet and all that stuff. He comes from the endurance cycling world. Which is like, so cycling, you would imagine like Tour de France style cycling. This is probably the most endurance dependent sport on planet earth. Cause it goes for so long. Like you have to be, you have to really understand how to peak in order to compete at a real insane endurance event like that. So he's got this knowledge from that sport that he's transferred over to MMA. But everybody I know that's trained with him has said like, man, it just changed everything. Changed my whole game. Because now all of a sudden you've got an incredible gas tank.

• 1:39:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's doing good. Shemaya, like I said, he looked good, but.

• 1:39:32Joe Rogan?

  I think that was a factor though in that fight.

• 1:39:33Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:39:34Joe Rogan?

  Because there's no fade in that fight. Whereas you saw like the Usman fight, there was a fade in the third round. Usman won that fucking third round.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:40Joe Rogan?

  And after that third round, he was like, fuck, I wish this was a five round fight.

• 1:39:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's like, also like Usman made him have output.

• 1:39:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  He didn't really have to, he had one explosion to take him down.

• 1:39:50Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. But Usman can fucking wrestle. That's the difference.

• 1:39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:55Joe Rogan?

  Like he was in there with a guy who's real strong, even though he's a weight class below him. Like it was, Usman had been competing at 170. And Hamzat had already committed to 85. He's a bigger guy. But Usman can really wrestle. And that's the difference. It's not like a guy that doesn't know what to do and you take him down, you ragdome. Usman's like, okay, you got me down, but this is a long ass fight. And I'm gonna get back up and we're gonna figure this out. And in the third round, he was figuring it out. And he was, he started tuning him up. He was landing good shots.

• 1:40:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, I have a friend that trained with Shemaya, like he goes and helps and he's told me, he's like, man, his wrestling's really good. I was like, how good? He was like, it's good. I was like, he whoop you? He was like, no, if he whoop me, why would they bring me in if he whoops me? I was like, touche. Good one. But you know, he is good.

• 1:40:43Joe Rogan?

  But you're still gonna watch that. You gotta watch to see what does he consider whoop?

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:46Joe Rogan?

  Let me watch.

• 1:40:48Speaker 02

  Show me the video, let me see it.

• 1:40:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:50Speaker 02

  Let me see what they got.

• 1:40:51Joe Rogan?

  Let me go in the room, I wanna see in the room.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  But I like his demeanor too, like, the confrontation he had with Ian Gary, like, he's similar to me, like.

• 1:41:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't understand that, because I had heard there's another angle that shows that Ian slapped him on the back pretty hard.

• 1:41:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he did.

• 1:41:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but Ian's that guy, he's like, he's trying to get a rise out of you. That way, when you do get a rise, he's like, like a big brother, you know, like, nitpicking. He's that guy. He wants you to get a rise out of you, so then he could be like, "What are you doing? I didn't mean that." He's like, that's why I don't really like, that's why, that's why I don't like Ian, at all. That's, cuz he's...

• 1:41:28Joe Rogan?

  You guys were at the same gym for a while.

• 1:41:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he's, and, but like, I don't know, like, I know like, other things and like, things that happened, and he's just that guy. Like, he's talked shit to me through another person. Like, we're at a, me and my boy are at a fight, and he's talking shit to me through his phone. "Bro, shut up. Take your, stop letting your wife tell you what to do, bro, shut up," you know? But like, yeah, he walks over there and he says something, dude, he hits him hard on the back. And Chamayev just looks at him, and then he did what he did back, or whatever, and shoved him, whatever the case, however that, you saw the confrontation from there. But yeah, he did. He hit him hard, and he told him, he was like, "You hit, like, you hit me, I'm gonna fuck you up." Like, "If you hit me like that again..." He tried to like, big brother him, like.

• 1:42:12Joe Rogan?

  Cuz the clip that everybody saw was after he slapped him on the back. It looked like Chamayev just got really aggressive with him for no reason.

• 1:42:19Speaker 02

  There's the other angle. Like, keeps hitting him. Then shakes him as he walks away.

• 1:42:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then he's talking a little shit.

• 1:42:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, "Oh, we're fine, he's not gonna do nothing."

• 1:42:30Joe Rogan?

  So it's a little weirdly aggressive. It ain't that bad.

• 1:42:32Speaker 02

  It's passive aggressive.

• 1:42:33Joe Rogan?

  It's a little weird. He taps him. It was like a little, like, grab his clothes and shove him a little bit.

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Joe Rogan?

  It wasn't like a guy that's, "Hey, brother, alright."

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  Exactly. And that's what he said, he's like...

• 1:42:44Joe Rogan?

  "Good luck to you," yeah.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  I have to give it to him, like, some things Chamayev says are, like, he fought my boy G, and they, he talks shit to him in the hallway. I didn't really like that, but hey, y'all two are gonna fight, y'all are grown men. Do what y'all want. Some things he might say or do, I don't like or agree with, but hey, as long as it's not to me, we good. But that, like, and other things he does, I fully agree with. I, I, I stand be- as a man, I stand behind him.

• 1:43:05Joe Rogan?

  Uh, one of the things I like about Chamaev, like, after he fought Gilbert, Gilbert and him went to war, and then he was like, you're my brother now. You know, you know what I mean? He was like, he was really cool with him.

• 1:43:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, there's a young kid, Ansar, um, that trains at Kill Cliff, and he is so much, like, demeanor wise, from what I see of Chamaev, he's so much like that. Dude, I'm telling you, this kid's like eighteen years old, and he is a stud. He's eighteen. He fought for me on my promotion, his, I think his debut. Dude, he goes and gets in the guy's face, the guy's coming down a weight class, he's going up a weight, Ansar's going up a weight class. Dude, he don't care. Matter of fact, he's in, uh, that streamer's video Neon or whatever, they post about it. He's the one, like, throwing RDR around him.

• 1:43:50Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:43:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Joe Rogan?

  Eighteen-year-old kid?

• 1:43:53Speaker 02

  Dude, he gives everybody problems. Gilbert, uh,

• 1:43:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:43:56Speaker 02

  with Stone RDR around.

• 1:43:58Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it wild when there's like some weird young phenom that is just so much better than they're supposed to be when they're young?

• 1:44:04Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 1:44:05Joe Rogan?

  It's real odd when there's, you're around those guys.

• 1:44:08Speaker 02

  There's three, there, there's three or four of them that, dude, I, I miss them a lot, like, when I'm not, like, when I, when I left Florida. One, they are such loyal humans, like, you barely find that nowadays, as you know, like, you don't, you don't find too many loyal guys. And when they say like, my brother, they don't care if you're white, black, Indian, uh, what your ethnicity is, what your religion, they don't care. They care about you, and dude, when, when I got into it with Marvin at the, at the casino, Ansar wasn't even old enough to get in. So he was like, brother, if I'd have been there. I hate him, no problem. Then there, but there's like Nikita, uh, Umar John, which is, uh, Ansar's best friend.

• 1:44:49Speaker 02

  And there's like Islam, there's a couple of them, uh, Datsalayev, there's like three to five. And I'm telling you, these guys, especially like Umar John, there he is.

• 1:45:01Joe Rogan?

  Whoa, that's a hell of a shot. Oh my goodness.

• 1:45:04Speaker 02

  Dude, he is so good.

• 1:45:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh my goodness. Look how smooth he took that dude's back.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  He just fought a couple of weeks ago and knocked some dude out in the first round.

• 1:45:11Joe Rogan?

  That was so smooth, man. Oh my goodness. Oh, he is on that back so quick.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  Hands are so good.

• 1:45:19Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's a one thing that these guys have in common is they're all from a hard part of the world. A fucking rough part of the world.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  Him and his best friend, Uman John, they left home at like, I think he was 17, 18 years old. They just left home. We asked him like, "Hey, bro, why'd you leave home? How'd you leave home? Like, how'd you get here?" They both said the same thing.

• 1:45:42Joe Rogan?

  Look at him, he's out. He's out. Referee!

• 1:45:45Speaker 02

  He's a savage. He trains 100%. He don't know anything other than 100% every day. Multiple times. But we asked him like, "Bro, how'd you leave home?" I think he's 18, 19 max.

• 1:45:55Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:45:56Speaker 02

  Dude, he's a savage.

• 1:45:57Joe Rogan?

  He looks good.

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  He's very good.

• 1:45:58Joe Rogan?

  He looks good, man.

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  There's another one.

• 1:45:59Joe Rogan?

  If you're that good at 18, my goodness.

• 1:46:02Speaker 02

  He's gonna be a stud.

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  What's he gonna be like when he's 30?

• 1:46:04Speaker 02

  Dude, I tell him all the time, like, "Man, if you just learn how to just take a breath and just be a little bit patient in certain positions."

• 1:46:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, that'll come.

• 1:46:12Speaker 02

  Exactly. But man, he's fighting good guys already. Like, they all want to fight him, Uman John. Uman John was fighting like one or two weight classes up and he had a draw with a guy and he thought it was like, you would've think he lost the love of his life. He had a draw because he was two weight classes up. And like, "Bro, why don't you fight at your weight class?" Brother, I just smash. I want to fight everyone. Everyone. And they can't get fights. They can barely ever get fights.

• 1:46:38Joe Rogan?

  It's hard for phenoms to get fights in the amateurs and in the lower organizations. A lot of people don't realize that. It's really hard.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  They come to me to match him and you gotta pay the other guy more to fight because like they already know like what it is and it was hard. It was very hard.

• 1:46:53Joe Rogan?

  And so what weight is he at now?

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  I think he's at 45.

• 1:46:57Joe Rogan?

  Damn.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  45. That's his last one right there. I think, no, no, that's not.

• 1:47:03Joe Rogan?

  Bro, look at the dude's hair, he's fighting.

• 1:47:06Speaker 02

  That's what he does to everyone.

• 1:47:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh my goodness, that is a crazy takedown.

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  He's so exciting.

• 1:47:11Joe Rogan?

  I can't believe dudes are still holding on to guillotines when people get into side control. How many times they want, watch Ovin St. Prue fight? You know? It's, it's crazy how many people still do that. They still keep that guillotine while guys in side control.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:24Joe Rogan?

  That is a death sentence, like, and some people don't cash in on it. But it's, if you just cinch those hands together, he can't get that ham out. That's it.

• 1:47:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:33Joe Rogan?

  Turn on your side, that's it. It's, it's almost like giving up your neck.

• 1:47:36Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:47:37Joe Rogan?

  It's like if someone like gave up their back, everybody would be like, what are you doing? That's like what you're doing, if you're holding on to a guillotine and a guy's in side control. It literally is like giving up your back and exposing your neck. It's kinda crazy.

• 1:47:48Speaker 02

  It is, but I see these kids like this and I'm just like, I used to be that kid, but these guys are even better. You know what I mean? Like, it's scary how evolution is.

• 1:47:56Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:47:57Speaker 02

  But like I said, man, I asked these kids, I was like, man, why'd you leave home? How'd you leave home? How'd you get here? Him and his best friend left together. Their story both, same thing, different times. Like, brother, we just left one day. Our parents, we told our parents we were going to the store, never came back.

• 1:48:12Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:48:14Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:48:14Joe Rogan?

  And just moved to America?

• 1:48:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, they somehow got here and they've been here and dude, they work during the day. They move stuff, like, they, they work for a moving company and then they train, so they train in the morning. They go, they train, train, then they go work all night, all through the night, moving stuff, whatever they have to do, whatever their work is. But I'm, most of the time I see them moving stuff. And then they come back, train the next day. And they do this every single day, working their ass off, man.

• 1:48:40Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:48:41Speaker 02

  It's super impressive and it's super motivating too, but it's, it just lets you know like, like for me, I used to be that young cat. Like, everyone was 24, 25, I'm 17, 18.

• 1:48:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  And I'm doing what I'm doing and now I see these kids and I'm like, damn, so that's what it was like when the older guys are looking at me. But these guys are better.

• 1:48:59Joe Rogan?

  People can forget when they get like complacent in their career and they become like a journeyman. And they forget what it's like to be young and hungry and then they'll train with someone and that'll either make them retire or it'll reinvigorate them.

• 1:49:10Speaker 02

  It's, it's awesome.

• 1:49:11Joe Rogan?

  Because if you're around like people that are that driven, it becomes contagious. It really does, especially if you know that a guy is working all day and training that hard, like, you got no excuses.

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:49:22Joe Rogan?

  And it's also just like, when you're around people like that, there's a... And the energy, it catches you.

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:49:28Joe Rogan?

  Moves you in its wake.

• 1:49:29Speaker 02

  It does, you're right, 100% cuz like, I get in my modes where I don't wanna do nothing, I'm just like, man, screw this, I've done this long enough, like, whatever. But then I go, I go back and like, say, today, for instance, I went in training with Nicky Rod, they whooped my ass, I ain't gonna lie to you, they whooped my ass. And I told him after, I was like, it should be illegal, that y'all just whooped me that bad. And they're like, yeah, but you ain't done nothing, and you know, you don't do pure jiu-jitsu anymore, like, we're the best in the world, like, some of the best in the world at pure jiu-jitsu.

• 1:49:57Joe Rogan?

  It's true.

• 1:49:58Speaker 02

  I was like, yeah, but still, I shouldn't be getting walked like that, and, but it just, it makes me hungry.

• 1:50:03Joe Rogan?

  Almost everybody.

• 1:50:04Speaker 02

  I love it, man.

• 1:50:05Joe Rogan?

  He's so big, he's such a freak.

• 1:50:07Speaker 02

  Dude, I told him today, I was like, how are you this big and move like this, this is illegal.

• 1:50:12Joe Rogan?

  Gordon told me there was a position once that they were doing, where they were, um, working from the back, and Gordon had his back, and Nicky flipped over the top of him, and wound up behind Gordon, and Gordon turns to John Donahue and goes, what the fuck am I supposed to do with that? Like, what do I do if that happens? It's like, well, Donahue was like, well, nobody could do that, other than Nicky.

• 1:50:32Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 1:50:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's how crazy that is.

• 1:50:34Speaker 02

  He's so sick.

• 1:50:35Joe Rogan?

  You know how nuts that is, do a backflip from your knees?

• 1:50:37Speaker 02

  I couldn't.

• 1:50:38Joe Rogan?

  And go over the top of someone who's got your back?

• 1:50:41Speaker 02

  I can't even visualize it.

• 1:50:42Joe Rogan?

  Separate the hands, somehow or another, he separated the hands and flipped over him. And Gordon was like, okay, cuz Gordon would be the first to tell you, even though he's the best in the world and the best ever at no-gi jiu-jitsu, he's not an explosive guy.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:54Joe Rogan?

  He's not, he was like, I'm not a good athlete.

• 1:50:56Speaker 02

  He's intelligent, though, super, super intelligent.

• 1:50:59Joe Rogan?

  Super smart.

• 1:51:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's super intelligent.

• 1:51:01Joe Rogan?

  Super smart.

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  I've listened to some of his, like, instructional's before, and like, uh, I know he did one at Rufusport a long time ago, and the guys told me after, cuz I was obviously at home, and they're like, bro, he, he was in a wheelchair, cuz I guess he had a surgery at the time, and he was in a chair, and his lady was teaching, like, she was teaching for him, and he was walking through every single position, they, they, all, everyone, said that was the best, uh, seminar they ever been to. He didn't, he didn't get down there and teach one move.

• 1:51:28Joe Rogan?

  That's incredible, that's incredible.

• 1:51:30Speaker 02

  I was like, that's impressive.

• 1:51:31Joe Rogan?

  Well, you could, if you could do a seminar from a wheelchair, Jesus Christ.

• 1:51:35Speaker 02

  Dude, impressive. You know, Wagner says the same thing, he's like, bro, he's the best guy ever. Trained with, learned from, anything. He's, he's amazing. So I've heard it from a lot, I've heard a lot of good-

• 1:51:44Joe Rogan?

  He's another guy though, that's 365 days a year of training. He goes, period. There's no days off. Fuck your Christmas, fuck your birthday. There's no days off, which is so crazy. To think of, but the way they put it and the way Donahue put it is like, if you are training 200 days a year, that is a lot. But you will not be able to beat a guy who's training 365 days a year. Cause he has 165 more training sessions a year. So over the course of two years, now he has, you know, 300 plus, then 400, it keeps going and going. So over the course of five years, like he's trained so much more than you.

• 1:52:19Speaker 02

  It's true.

• 1:52:20Joe Rogan?

  And it's not just training. It's like, when they're not physically training, they're going over tape all day.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, which is like, it's hard to do that and to keep your mind focused on that. They're writing things down. They're going over positions. It's not just all hard physical work.

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  It's intelligence.

• 1:52:38Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot of breaking things down. A lot of like the finer points of technique and positioning.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  It's, it's funny you say that, cause it's like, for me, like when we were talking earlier about how like time off, it reinvigorates your mind. It's like, that's what it does for me. Like, I've, I, I probably do a hundred reps in a day of like, things that I've screwed up on, like throwing a jab wrong, or leaving my hand down, or like, in my head, my mental reps. And then somehow, when I do go train again, it's just so weird. Like, my body just automatically does it. Like, say I throw the jab and I just bring it back to my chest. I don't want it there. I want it on my, on my chin. I do so many mental reps of this for like a week or two weeks, or however long I'm out. By the time I spar again, I'm not doing it no more. Like, I do so many mental reps, focus on such little details.

• 1:53:26Speaker 02

  But then outside of that, I really take my time, I try to take my time away from fighting. Like, when I'm not training for the most part, like especially like the month after the fight, I don't want to hear about fighting. I don't want to talk about fighting. That's why I stay away from like most people that don't know me. I don't want to talk, cause anytime they see me, oh, what do you think about this fight? What's next? I don't know, man.

• 1:53:46Joe Rogan?

  You just want to let your motivation return.

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  Exactly. I just want to be with my family. I want to be a normal person. Cause one day, fighting's not going to be there for me. It's always been there for me since I was 13. When I had anxiety about something, stress, heartbreak, whatever it is, it's always been there for me. And that's when I always grew. But it's not, the end is a lot closer than the beginning.

• 1:54:08Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:54:08Speaker 02

  You know, that's where I'm at in my life, and I know that, so I'm trying to make the most of it and try, but.

• 1:54:13Joe Rogan?

  You think about like high end, you got 10 years, if that's really possible.

• 1:54:16Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 1:54:17Joe Rogan?

  It's not usually, and usually the last few are rough, because the last few, like Anderson after he broke his leg. Right?

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:54:25Joe Rogan?

  So I say there's like two Andersons. There's Anderson pre-Wideman and post-Wideman.

• 1:54:29Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:54:30Joe Rogan?

  There's the knockout where Wideman caught him at the left hook, and then there's the leg break in the rematch. And then from then, he's never been Anderson again.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:54:36Joe Rogan?

  And I think the injury has a lot to do with it, but it's also father time. I don't, I don't think we got Anderson in the UFC till he was 34.

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  It was a while, because he was already big on the other scenes.

• 1:54:45Joe Rogan?

  Huge, bro. That was one of them fights where, um, people didn't really know Anderson that well. And he was fighting Chris Leibin, and the odds were Anderson was the favorite, but not by enough. And I was telling my friend, like, bet the house on the Brazilian. I go, bet the house.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:03Joe Rogan?

  Because he was coming off of that, remember Cage Rage?

• 1:55:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06Joe Rogan?

  So he was coming off of the Lee Murray fight. He was coming off, who did he fight over there as well? He fought Jorge Rivera. That was a big fight. There was a Tony Fricklin one where he did that crazy step in elbow.

• 1:55:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I saw the highlight of that. I didn't know that was his name, but I know the elbow you're talking about.

• 1:55:21Joe Rogan?

  That elbow, do you know, he had a practice with his wife, because his coach wouldn't let him try it.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:55:27Joe Rogan?

  His coach was like, stop doing that. You're not gonna do that. He goes, I'm gonna hit him with this. He's like, no, you're not gonna do that. Stop training that. So we didn't want to train that. So he told his wife to hold a pillow. So his wife was holding a pillow at home, and he was going like this.

• 1:55:41Joe Rogan?

  Over and over again. He was just practicing it, yeah. He wanted to do some on-box shit.

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  What a great story to have.

• 1:55:48Joe Rogan?

  That was Anderson. Like, people didn't, people saw him in his prime for sure, obviously, because he's one of the greatest of all time, but.

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:55:54Joe Rogan?

  They didn't see that transition to him becoming in his. Prime and that was in Cage Rage because he had some really good fights in in Pride but then when he went to Cage Rage like something flipped man. You know how it has like Olivera when it happened to him after he had his kid. You know, something flips sometimes when a fighter just locks in and then they become who they really are.

• 1:56:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, whoever one around them knows.

• 1:56:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:16Speaker 02

  Gym, but no one else has seen it. It's a. It's weird like I always say that about myself like.

• 1:56:24Speaker 02

  I still haven't. I'm still not the guy that everyone knows in the gym. I show a little bit more every time, but I'm not even that that guy.

• 1:56:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, maybe this changing of environment and coaching will allow you to hit that spot.

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  The coaching like you were talking about earlier, right? It has been the hardest thing for me to let go like of control and give it to someone else, but it took. It was kind of one of those things. I met Horacio and Mike and I have obviously a lot of trust and a lot of faith in Bilal. I've known him for a long time and I see what he's done. But I met these guys and Max too. Um, I met him. For five days when I was with Bilal and to watch, sit back and watch them also have my own interactions with them. It just felt like, you know, one of those things. You just feel like your friends instantly, like you know each other forever. And that's kind of what that connection was with them. So honestly, it was a little bit easier than normal to let go of like. Um, the control of like controlling what I'm gonna do, when I'm gonna do it, the strategy.

• 1:57:21Joe Rogan?

  Did you think about other camps as well? Did you think about?

• 1:57:24Speaker 02

  I didn't think I was gonna leave to be honest with you. I didn't think I was gonna leave Florida. I was just going there to help my friend and just kind of see what I could do different, like what I could change in my own in my own thing.

• 1:57:33Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:33Speaker 02

  Um. But then obviously, uh, my goal after being there because he was getting ready for Jack, uh, Bilal was. So I watched everything. I helped him for a few days and then I went back. I fought. Marvin. And I was at, um, I did two or three weeks with, uh, at Chicago, two weeks. I did two weeks. Excuse me. I did two weeks and then, um. I did like four or five in Florida. So I was like, okay, next time I'm just gonna do, split it four and four. You know, spend my time, mix and match because it was a great time like for me. Then I fought the Ritter, he was there and I was like, I don't know, it didn't sit well with me how all that stuff went.

• 1:58:16Speaker 02

  Like how he got there and everything and everyone was like, oh, why is he fighting him, they're teammates. And I told everyone from the beginning, like you can ask Gilbert Burns, cause he said it on his little podcast thing he did. I always said, I'm not gonna train with him, I'm gonna fight him one day. I'm good. No animosity, I just don't need no more friends.

• 1:58:35Speaker 02

  I just don't.

• 1:58:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:58:36Speaker 02

  Um, I have enough guys, the guys that I know that I'm friends with, Joe Piper, Rod- uh Gregory Rodriguez, uh Basinger. Um, those are guys that are gonna be at the top or at the top that we have agreements, only for a belt. I'll fight anyone on this planet for a belt, anyone. And I expect the same in return, cause it could change my, their lives or my own, you know?

• 1:58:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:56Speaker 02

  So, um, they know that about me, but no matter what the timeframe is, if you say yes to me, or you say my name, we're gonna fight. That's it, like that's how, that's how I feel. But those guys are the guys that I have with, and now they're all coming to the top, so it's like, you know, someday it's, it's probably gonna happen, so it's like I don't need any more friends.

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  Dana hates hearing that kinda shit, like guys who won't fight friends.

• 1:59:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I'll fight for a belt though, anyone on the whole planet. Godzilla, I'll fight for the whole, but I don't care. And Ghanu, I'll fight him for a belt, I don't care, like, you know what I mean, like? It could change my whole life, like my family's, you know?

• 1:59:28Joe Rogan?

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:59:29Speaker 02

  So like, I, I'm very realistic, cause obviously, even if you love to do this, at this level, it's about the money too, like, you know, it's financial freedom.

• 1:59:38Joe Rogan?

  It's about making intelligent choices, because one slip up could set you back two years.

• 1:59:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm learning that.

• 1:59:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:47Speaker 02

  I learned that the hard way.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's also important to learn, right? It's also important to have those setbacks. Those setbacks are some of the most important growth points in your career, in anybody's career, if you do it right. Like those set, those setbacks are when you feel that ugliness, and then you really have to assess what could I have done differently?

• 2:00:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:00:04Joe Rogan?

  What am I doing wrong? What's my, is there something about my mindset, or something about my diet? Is there something about my recovery? Am I doing too much of this, or too little of that? You have to have that pain. If everything is just going great, the thing going into the fight was Aspinall's every fight, other than the Curse Blades fight, was a one-round fight. It was him blowing guys out. And so, no one really knew what was gonna happen if we got into round three, round four, round five. And so, that question's always hovering over the head. When a guy like you, who's been in those wars and been in the trenches, you've already had... That's a blessing. It really is a blessing. Because it gives you not just the motivation to return better than you were before. Like, look at Bo

• 2:00:46Joe Rogan?

  Nickel after he lost, right? He loses to DeRitter, comes back and smokes Adolfo Viera. Looked like a different guy. Looks like a different guy. Why? Because of that... There's a blessing in losing. There's a blessing in failure. There really is. Because if you can swallow it, it will give you a fucking furnace inside you to come back stronger. If you can swallow it, but some guys can't swallow it. They choke on it, and they cry, and maybe their confidence gets shattered, and they're never the same again. Or maybe they go, "Why am I doing this? I could be a carpenter. I always wanted to play drums."

• 2:01:22Speaker 02

  I've thought of that. I've thought of that, but I don't want to go back to being a carpenter. I'm good with that.

• 2:01:26Joe Rogan?

  A guy like Tom Aspinall, when he gets to a fight with a guy like Nganu, or a guy who's going to be there, those questions... And I'm not saying that he wouldn't succeed. I'm not saying he wouldn't win. But those questions might be in your head. Because you haven't been in those high-profile wars before where you came up short.

• 2:01:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, I still get those questions. I question... I'm such a perfectionist, and I know nothing will ever be perfect, but I want as close to it as I can get, that still...

• 2:01:54Joe Rogan?

  It's a great mindset.

• 2:01:55Speaker 02

  I find something. I will always find something to be negative. But what's helped me is I had a sports psychiatrist for a while. He was great. And I learned a lot with him. And for me, it's been about like, I'm very like, open with people that I care about, and that I know care solely about me. They're not worried about if I win or lose, or, you know, all that stuff. The fame, they're not worried about that. They care about me as a person. And that was something that was great with Bilal and Horacio, and all the guys in Chicago. Mike, Max. You know, we talk regularly, "How are you, man? How's the family? Everything good?" How's your... But I'm very open with them, leading up to the fight. Like, there's a clip from behind the scenes of the last fight where I'm... I'm open, and they catch it, like... This is me being vulnerable of who I am.

• 2:02:37Speaker 02

  I was too manly, or whatever, or trying to suppress it before, where it just grew into something bigger, and I would mentally shut down. Malkun was the worst fight for me for that. I was shaking in the bed the night before, like, I was... I thought, like, I was freezing, but I wasn't. I was so nervous of, like, "I can't lose to this guy. He's not on my level." And then I go out there and perform not that well.

• 2:02:56Joe Rogan?

  So your mind was fucking you.

• 2:02:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz I find one negative thing, and I just focus, and I make it huge.

• 2:03:01Joe Rogan?

  I think it's good sometimes. I think it's good sometimes, but it's... It's like, almost like you have to be critical, but yet also confident.

• 2:03:09Speaker 02

  Right. And I would take my confidence away by focusing on it. But being able to talk about it, like, again, they had that moment. I have it on my Instagram. They made a clip, whatever, for me. And, um, it was... It's just, literally, it was two nights before the fight, three nights before the fight. And we're talking, and I'm telling them, "Bro, he could get me down. He could finish me. But if he finishes me on the ground, he's gotta be just that good." But I'm nervous, man. I'm nervous that I'm not gonna go out here and perform to what I know that I can do. That's... To me, that's the worst. I don't mind losing to someone that's better than me. I can take it. I haven't found that man yet, but I know it's gonna happen. But to lose to someone truly better than me, I can accept it. But to lose to myself, aw, man.

• 2:03:53Speaker 02

  To look in the mirror, it eats me alive.

• 2:03:56Joe Rogan?

  But I think those things that can creep into your head before a fight, where I don't wanna lose, I don't wanna disappoint people, I don't wanna do this, then that is a really bad time to have those thoughts. It's not a bad time to have those thoughts when you're working on stuff. It's not a bad time to have those thoughts, like, if you're really trying to motivate yourself to get up in the morning and run, or whatever it is, like, to really get after it in strength and conditioning. But when you're fighting, like, you have to have a strategy of how to squash those thoughts when they come up. And it... I mean, it's not just fighting. Anybody who's listening to this, anything in life that you have to do that's really difficult and scares you, you gotta know how to squash negative thoughts before they burn your house down. Like, when you see the fire... Stomp that bitch out quick.

• 2:04:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:40Joe Rogan?

  Stomp it out quick and then make sure that you're starting to really only focus on positive things and never let it get, cause they'll, those little creepy demon thoughts, they'll get in and then they start running around. They start running around, they start screaming and taking over your brain. You're like, "Get out of my head! Get out of my head!" But they're already in there. You let them in. You let them in. And sometimes they have to burn your house down before you realize what the, what the danger is of them getting inside your head.

• 2:05:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:05:08Joe Rogan?

  And so then the next time, you've gotta come up with a strategy to squash it before it gets too crazy.

• 2:05:12Speaker 02

  We did a lot of like, uh, at the beginning of like sports psychiatrists, like that was one thing, right? Like, I would suppress it right away and suppress it and it'd try to creep back through and I'd suppress it again. But then it just gets bigger and stronger to where it can just come out. And you don't know when it's gonna come out. It could be the night of the fight, it could be the day before the fight, could be in the fight, you know? So it's like, that, taking it in, whatever that emotion is for you, dissecting it, like literally get to the root of why you think this. Like, "Oh, I think he can knock me out if I dissect it." Well, yeah, he's knocked a lot of guys out, but anyone can knock anyone out.

• 2:05:45Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:05:45Speaker 02

  Anyone can. So what are you nervous of? You've done this, like for me, over thirty times, like, what are you worried about? You fought on the biggest level, you've main evented, you're, you're ranked in the world, you fought some of the best in the world, like, what are you worried about?

• 2:05:56Joe Rogan?

  You let a demon sneak into your brain.

• 2:05:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know? And once I dissect it, I've worked on it, like that, so well and being open and honest with my coaches and like the people that I care about and they care about me, has been such a great, like, thing for me. I'm the kind of the guy, like, sometimes, like, just, I've learned about myself, it's just like, just let me talk. If, sometimes, I'm, I'm not a big talker, but just let me talk. If, you don't even say nothing, but, damn, that's alright, bro. That's why Tuco, they, who I always see me with normally, he's always with me. Bro, he's the best at just, like, listening to me. Like, it's not very often, but when I do wanna talk... Like, I'm like, bro, like, he'll ask me, what's wrong? I'm like, I don't think you're gonna hear it today, like, I'm good. He'll ask me that a couple of times, eventually I'll just let it out, and then I'm good.

• 2:06:42Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm good, like, I'm a whole different person.

• 2:06:44Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's almost like you have to tell somebody what, what's going on inside your head, and if you keep it inside your head.

• 2:06:49Speaker 02

  There's the wings, the wings are coming.

• 2:06:51Joe Rogan?

  Demon. Flying monkeys. Throwing firebombs inside your head.

• 2:06:57Speaker 02

  Launching them.

• 2:06:57Joe Rogan?

  Wizard of Oz.

• 2:06:58Speaker 02

  Launching them, bro. So it's like, that's been great for me, that, that's really helped, and it, I, I, you know, I've had a couple of younger kids that like have asked me, "Oh, how's that?", and I turned them on to my god that I used to use.

• 2:07:09Joe Rogan?

  What did you do with the psychiatrist? Like, how did, what were the sessions like?

• 2:07:13Speaker 02

  We would talk about things like this, he'd have worksheets and stuff like this, but you know what really, really sunk in? So first, we worked on like, learning to catch emotions, he called it something, but learning to catch different emotions before they grow.

• 2:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Right, like, stop the fire.

• 2:07:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Before it burns your house down.

• 2:07:29Speaker 02

  So like, recognizing, first is recognizing, anything you have to recognize, if you recognize it thirty minutes, the first time, "All right, let's try it for twenty-five the next time", don't let it, like, you thought on it for thirty minutes and you're like, "Fuck, what am I thinking about this?"

• 2:07:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:41Speaker 02

  Let's do twenty-five, so keep it until you can get it, like, right away. Then we dissect it, and then we move on about our day. Things that helped me at the beginning were like, um...

• 2:07:50Joe Rogan?

  Does it help you talking with a different person, like, another person about this, rather than just bouncing it off your own head?

• 2:07:56Speaker 02

  Yes, for sure.

• 2:07:58Joe Rogan?

  Something about talking to another person makes it real?

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it, it just like gets it out, like, I'm holding it in, holding it in, holding it in, as soon as I talk, it's like it's literally like leaving my body, like, the stress just kinda like, and sometimes they have like good things to say, like, things like, like that. My sports psychiatrist was the one that told me those things, like, "Bro, you've done this how many times? You fought these guys?", like...

• 2:08:18Joe Rogan?

  Did he ever work with fighters before?

• 2:08:20Speaker 02

  Uh, he was working with a small team in New Orleans, and now he, like, he's got other guys in the UFC now, cause they would ask me, and I'd turn them on, and he's, it's great, his name's Eric, he's, he's really great, he's from New Orleans.

• 2:08:29Joe Rogan?

  Cause I would think if a guy was like a sports psychiatrist, like tennis, it's like, some things would carry over, but it's a very different thing.

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  And he trained as well, he grew up wrestling and stuff.

• 2:08:38Joe Rogan?

  Perfect guy, then.

• 2:08:39Speaker 02

  Exactly, and it just, it just, uh, it worked out great, man, I learned a lot. A lot like I kind of figured out what worked for me. So I was like, all right, and I get so busy. But um, another thing he gave me was uh, you read it. The day like after you weigh in, you read it and then you finish like it has a part where it says read up to this point. And then you read this, the rest of the section, uh, the day of the fight. And it's, I forget the author, I have it in my phone somewhere, uh, that he sent me a long time ago and I would read it before every fight. Everyone, uh, uh, like the apex when we was in the apex all the time. We, I'd weigh in and we had to wait that like two hours till like we could face off if you weigh in first. And I'd sit there and I'd read it and it was like an author and he talks a lot about like different sports and like.

• 2:09:23Speaker 02

  Like one of his base things is like hope, the word uh, hope, hold on, possibilities exist, like don't ever think it's over, it's done. Don't ever say, I have to do something, I want to do something, I don't have to, the moment you start putting, I have to. Is the moment you start like, he says like, put like change, you hit the emergency stop button, the emergency brake on your car like. You gotta let it off, you're not performing at your best with other things. So like, stuff like that really like sets in and I try to remind myself. So like. Reminding myself of those things, talking about it is really like what helps me.

• 2:09:54Joe Rogan?

  This bu- is it a book?

• 2:09:55Speaker 02

  It's like a little uh.

• 2:09:56Joe Rogan?

  Pamphlet?

• 2:09:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, kinda.

• 2:09:58Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who wrote it?

• 2:09:59Speaker 02

  Uh, it's in my phone, I can find it.

• 2:10:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, just like, so other people can look at it. Cause it sounds pretty powerful.

• 2:10:05Speaker 02

  It, it was great, man.

• 2:10:06Joe Rogan?

  And if it helped you, there's, there's a lot, a lot of like hokey sort of self-help stuff online. You know, be a fucking man, go out and get it done and. There's, you're, there's a wolf inside of you and all that kooky shit, but the reality is, there's a lot of wisdom out there too. There's a lot of like, you could read meditations by Marcus Aurelius and. Literally learn how to live a better life. Like there's a lot of stuff out there that's very beneficial. So when someone. Like yourself has something that really helped them, I think it's probably good to put it out there so other people can get it.

• 2:10:40Speaker 02

  You know, it's so crazy. Now I'm looking through like the documents and stuff that he sent me like mindfulness was the word I was looking for. You catch it like mindfulness, like. Stuff like that, but it's funny, I'm.

• 2:10:49Joe Rogan?

  Mindfulness is one of them co-opted words. It's been co-opted like gratitude and spirituality. It's one of them words that like too many kooky people use.

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Too many wooden beads.

• 2:10:59Speaker 02

  The first time he told me, I was like, bro, don't tell me where I think you're crazy shit, bro. I'm not that kind of guy, you know?

• 2:11:05Joe Rogan?

  Don't you hit me with no mindfulness, son.

• 2:11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, but look, I'm literally going through right here, right? And he would send me stuff, right? Before a fight or like.

• 2:11:12Joe Rogan?

  So he sent you quotes?

• 2:11:13Speaker 02

  He'd send me YouTube links. Look at the second one. From the top.

• 2:11:19Joe Rogan?

  Uh, who was it with me? Who was it?

• 2:11:22Speaker 02

  Uh, David Goggins.

• 2:11:23Joe Rogan?

  Goggins? Oh, that's hilarious.

• 2:11:24Speaker 02

  He'd send me that, like, stuff like...

• 2:11:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, man.

• 2:11:26Speaker 02

  He'd send me stuff like this.

• 2:11:27Joe Rogan?

  Goggins is a perfect example of that. He says things all the time that I think of. Jaco. When I'm, when I'm working out and I'm really tired, I think of this one Jaco video. Where it's called "Good." Have you ever seen that video?

• 2:11:39Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:11:39Joe Rogan?

  You wanna get fired up?

• 2:11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wanna see it.

• 2:11:41Joe Rogan?

  Can we play that? We get fired up? This is one of my all-time favorite videos. You know Jaco, right? Jaco...

• 2:11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so Jaco, you know, was a Navy SEAL. And, uh, was, he's got a book called, uh, Extreme Ownership. And it's just the way he thinks, the way he carries himself is... It's so, it's so beneficial, if you can adopt this. That there's some times where I'm training, where I'm fucking really, really tired and I wanna quit. I think of Jaco and I go, "Good. You're tired, that means you're gonna get stronger." Listen to this. This is fucking amazing.

• 2:12:17Speaker 05

  One of my direct subordinates, one of my guys that worked for me. He would, he would call me up or pull me aside with some major problem, some issue that was going on. And he'd say, "Boss, we got this and that and the other thing." And I'd look at him and I'd say, "Good." And finally, one day, he was telling me about some issue that he was having, some problem, and... He said, "I already know what you're gonna say." And I said, "Well, what am I gonna say?" He said, "You're gonna say 'good.'"

• 2:12:45Speaker 05

  He said, "That's what you always say. When something is wrong and going bad, you always just look at me and say 'good.'"

• 2:12:54Speaker 05

  And I said, "Well, yeah." When things are going bad, there's gonna be some good that's gonna come from it. Didn't get the new high-speed gear we wanted? Good. Didn't get promoted?

• 2:13:10Speaker 05

  Good. More time to get better. Oh, mission got canceled? Good, we can focus on another one. Didn't get funded? Didn't get the job you wanted? Got injured? Sprained my ankle? Got tapped out? Good. Got beat? Good. You learned.

• 2:13:30Speaker 05

  Unexpected problems? Good. We have the opportunity to figure out a solution.

• 2:13:39Speaker 05

  That's it. When things are going bad,

• 2:13:43Speaker 05

  don't get all bummed out, don't get startled, don't get frustrated.

• 2:13:51Speaker 05

  If you can say the word "good",

• 2:13:55Speaker 05

  guess what? It means you're still alive. It means you're still breathing. And if you're still breathing,

• 2:14:05Speaker 05

  well then hell, you still got some fight left in you. So get up, dust off, reload, recalibrate, re-engage,

• 2:14:20Speaker 05

  and go out on the attack.

• 2:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:29Speaker 02

  That's a good one. That's a good one.

• 2:14:31Joe Rogan?

  Play that one when you're in the fucking dressing room.

• 2:14:33Speaker 02

  This is what it is.

• 2:14:34Joe Rogan?

  Getting ready.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  I don't know if it's like a document.

• 2:14:37Joe Rogan?

  So these are the things that he sends you?

• 2:14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:38Joe Rogan?

  Okay. So, um, it's called "How Sports Psychology Can Help You Do Your Best When It Means The Most", unedited copy. Who's the author? Um, what's it say? Oh, Rob Gilbert. Rob Gilbert, PhD, Montclair State University, Montclair, New Jersey. Okay.

• 2:14:57Speaker 02

  It's pretty cool.

• 2:14:58Joe Rogan?

  Um, God, I'll ask you to send me that afterwards.

• 2:15:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  I love shit like that. It's, like, there's little things like that you can carry in your toolbox and they can help you. And not just if you're a professional fighter, but in basically everything in life.

• 2:15:12Speaker 02

  It's been, um...

• 2:15:16Speaker 02

  It really helped change my perspective.

• 2:15:18Joe Rogan?

  How's Bilal doing? Who fucking gets poked in the eye more than that guy? Jesus Christ. That guy has had, I think he's had something insane, like nine eye surgeries?

• 2:15:26Speaker 02

  I know he's had three of the hard ones. Like of the, the, he literally, he, he told me this story. He had to drive home six hours. His, his, uh... Excuse me, his wife came and got him and brought him home. But this is a while back. Uh, he had to drive six hours with his head like that because something with the pressure. You can't sit straight up with it. It's, it's crazy.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

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• 2:16:31Joe Rogan?

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• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  Explained it to me, but it's like, it blows my mind.

• 2:17:19Joe Rogan?

  I couldn't believe he got poked again by Inger. I couldn't believe it. The moment he got poked, I'm like, I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe it's happening.

• 2:17:26Speaker 02

  Dude, I thought the same thing.

• 2:17:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, look at that.

• 2:17:29Speaker 02

  That was the Leon one, right?

• 2:17:29Joe Rogan?

  Look at that finger in his, deep in his fucking eyeball. That is so crazy. That's so crazy. So he's had major surgeries on his eyes.

• 2:17:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:17:40Joe Rogan?

  And then Ian poked him, like, right away. I was like, this is crazy. I've, I don't know how you feel, but I feel like it should be an instant one-point deduction.

• 2:17:49Speaker 02

  At least.

• 2:17:50Joe Rogan?

  Every time.

• 2:17:50Speaker 02

  At least. At least. I like what Tom Aspinall said. He was like, no, you poked me in my eye, you want me to continue? Okay, no problem. I get to poke him in his eye.

• 2:17:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:17:59Speaker 02

  I was like, eh.

• 2:17:59Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people are talking shit about Tom, but he, he apparently still can't see.

• 2:18:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:04Joe Rogan?

  Like, his eyes still fucked up. Like, no one knows. Here's the thing. The eye, the other eye got hurt as well, but not as bad, but it looks way worse. The finger goes way deeper in the other eye.

• 2:18:13Speaker 02

  Dude, eye pokes are crazy.

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  Straight Three Stooges, boink!

• 2:18:17Speaker 02

  And, you know, it's, it's crazy that everyone that talks the most shit has never been poked in the eye. Not even a little bit, like, accidentally.

• 2:18:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's horrible.

• 2:18:25Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  It's like a, a bolt of lightning in your brain.

• 2:18:28Speaker 02

  Dude, but-

• 2:18:28Joe Rogan?

  And then you can't see. And if, the idea that you can't see and then you're supposed to fight a guy. Also, you're, you're fighting a guy in Ian and Gary who has a fucking nasty left hand. So if you get poked in your eyeball and you can't see that punch come, well, he's got a nasty right hand, too. I mean, Ian and Gary can strike. Oh, god.

• 2:18:45Speaker 02

  Aspinall right there.

• 2:18:46Joe Rogan?

  Look at that. So look at the right one. The one, the, the, excuse me, the left eye. That's deeper. And that one didn't get hurt as bad. It's his right eye that really got hurt. The left one is like finger-knuckle deep in his eyeball, man.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  Dude, it's crazy. You know, like, um, Bilal's like one of those guys you talk about, 365, 24/7, he's ready, he's doing something, always. I'm, I'm even like, bro, take a break, bro. You've earned a little break. Take a week off. Be with your, with your family, you know? He won't.

• 2:19:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, at his stage of his life, it, it might be the only way to keep going because he's at like 38 now, right?

• 2:19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, something like that.

• 2:19:23Joe Rogan?

  It's re, like, that's the same age as Usman. And, uh, you know, you can still be a world-class fighter at that age. You could clearly see that with Kamaru against Joaquin Buckley.

• 2:19:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, a lot of people counted him out because Joaquin Buckley was fucking a lot of people up.

• 2:19:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was.

• 2:19:37Joe Rogan?

  Joaquin Buckley, bro, woo, that guy's a problem. He's a fucking problem.

• 2:19:42Speaker 02

  I've known him for a minute, man.

• 2:19:43Joe Rogan?

  He's a, he's wild. And fast and he keeps getting better and he's really fucking he he's really fucking intelligent about how to land shots. He knows how to set things up.

• 2:19:53Speaker 02

  Likes to fight.

• 2:19:54Joe Rogan?

  He loves to fight and he's you know he's just just a dog just in the fight, man. He's always dangerous that wonder boy fight, you know, he's a little having a little bit problem solving that distance in that range. Until he didn't. Until he didn't, man, bro, that dude's got hammers in his fist.

• 2:20:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:20:12Joe Rogan?

  So when watching Kamaru just ragdoll him like that, I was like, god damn. Fuck, yeah, it looked like Kamara world champion level Kamara. Like, a lot of people have kind of counted him out because there's this narrative that he puts out there openly about his knees.

• 2:20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he talked about on this podcast openly, his knees are fucked. He's like, I gotta go downstairs backwards sometimes because they hurt so much.

• 2:20:35Speaker 02

  I heard he went and did like a lot of stuff to like redo them and now he says they're good, but I don't I don't know. I don't know.

• 2:20:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, uh, I know he went to Columbia. He went down to that bio accelerator place in Columbia. I don't know if he's been to the place in Tijuana that the UFC uses now, the the cellular performance institute, but they're all very similar. We're being held back to such a fucking ridiculous extent in this country by the FDA. That you don't realize how many people with neurological conditions, how many people with severe injuries, how many people could be helped by stem cells? And there there's no evidence that they're damaging people. There's no evidence other, I mean, look, anytime you have any invasive procedure, anytime, anytime you have a surgery and there's always some risk that something can go wrong. There's always a risk in any medical procedure.

• 2:21:24Joe Rogan?

  But there's no outstanding risks versus reward to stem cells. On the contrary, the the the evidence is outstanding results, including like some of the things Dr. Neil Reardon has been doing down in Panama with people that have like severe neurological problems, guys that have had CTE like real, real, real bad fucking other than just injuries. And then even injuries like my mom had a really bad knee and I sent her down there and it got a lot better. It sent it down. I sent it down there twice, a lot. Better Mel Gibson, his dad couldn't walk. He's he was like almost ninety, he was like eighty years old.

• 2:22:01Joe Rogan?

  And then um he went down, got his hips done, got his Neil Neil did his shoulders, his hips, a bunch of other stuff and and did Mel as well. And he's just like, no, my dad was like up and walking around like five years later still. Like like he was ten years younger like.

• 2:22:19Speaker 02

  He's a great actor, by the way.

• 2:22:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Mel, he's the man, he's the man. I love that guy. He's crazy too. He's so interesting. He's such he that guy's got like a fucking tornado going on in his brain all the time.

• 2:22:30Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:22:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why he's such a good director, man. Did you ever see Apocalypto?

• 2:22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, one of my favorites.

• 2:22:37Joe Rogan?

  I fucking love that movie.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  Same, it's one of my favorites. I love that movie too, for sure.

• 2:22:42Joe Rogan?

  Movie, man. Such a good movie.

• 2:22:44Speaker 02

  He plays some great ones.

• 2:22:45Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he made a movie where nobody speaks English.

• 2:22:47Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:22:47Joe Rogan?

  And it's a blockbuster.

• 2:22:48Speaker 02

  And it's amazing.

• 2:22:49Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking incredible. It's fucking incredible.

• 2:22:52Speaker 02

  That one. But like I like his old stuff too, like Braveheart.

• 2:22:55Joe Rogan?

  Braveheart is amazing. Passion of the Christ was really good too, man.

• 2:22:58Speaker 02

  Patriot was good.

• 2:22:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, dude, he's fucking, he's the real deal, man. Mel Gibson's the real fucking deal.

• 2:23:04Speaker 02

  What's the one he?

• 2:23:06Speaker 02

  You think I'm crazy, but uh I think it's Think Like a Woman. You ever seen that one?

• 2:23:10Joe Rogan?

  I did not.

• 2:23:10Speaker 02

  Bro, that is freaking hilarious.

• 2:23:12Joe Rogan?

  What is it?

• 2:23:13Speaker 02

  It's like um. He gets trapped in like he can like read a woman's mind. And so cause like he's basically a guy, he works, he's a journalist or like a publisher or something like that. And um. He's very like a womanizer, like he gets women and just like whatever. And they always like talking shit about him behind his back like everyone else. So now like he's trying to move up the ranks, uh he's supposed to be next in line for a promotion. Well, he has his daughter come in and she leaves the the the. Blow dryer and he trips on it and falls in the uh the water gets electrocuted and he wakes up and now he can hear all women's thoughts. And it like changes who he is as a person. That's it. It's amazing.

• 2:23:55Speaker 02

  Like she gets his promotion, so now he.

• 2:23:57Joe Rogan?

  Two thousand.

• 2:23:58Speaker 02

  Bro, great.

• 2:23:59Joe Rogan?

  Funny as hell. Helen Hunt. Uh he's been great in a lot of it. He was he was great in that conspiracy theory movie.

• 2:24:06Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 2:24:06Joe Rogan?

  That one, was it Julia Roberts? Yeah, he he was a wacky conspiracy theorist guy.

• 2:24:13Speaker 02

  I don't think I've seen that one.

• 2:24:14Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty good.

• 2:24:14Speaker 03

  It's called Conspiracy Theory.

• 2:24:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, is that what it's called? That's hilarious.

• 2:24:17Speaker 02

  I ain't seen that.

• 2:24:17Joe Rogan?

  And um it I I think like a lot of the things that he. Talked about now, it's like people openly discuss online, you know, cuz this is all before the internet. What year was that?

• 2:24:28Speaker 02

  Ninety-seven.

• 2:24:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so there were no like conspiracy theory websites back then.

• 2:24:32Speaker 02

  He has another one. He has another one where like his wife works, I mean, his daughter, I'm sorry, his daughter works for this company, she comes home. And it's like this, one of those rich companies that like hides stuff, but you never can tell cuz you never have proof. And she's working in like a secret department, she comes home all frantic. And the dude yells something, shoots her with a shotgun right on the, right on his front door, boom, kills her. So obviously then he goes and starts trying to figure everything out and he starts figuring out like through the way what the work was doing and it was like poisoning or something, well anyway, he finds the guy and ends up killing him, but he ends up dying too cuz he got the poison from wherever he went into the workspace, like he followed, he was doing all kinds of shit, but it was super cool too.

• 2:25:09Joe Rogan?

  What movie is that?

• 2:25:10Speaker 02

  I don't know. You know that movie? Where he shoots, he shoots his daughter on the front step, like that's one of the, that was one of the things that sold the movie, like that was one of the previews.

• 2:25:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, how about Lethal Weapon, first time we ever saw anybody do a triangle in a movie?

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  True.

• 2:25:23Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:25:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, he's

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy.

• 2:25:25Speaker 02

  I like his movies.

• 2:25:26Joe Rogan?

  I'd love that scene, like that scene, I was like, what is he doing? I didn't even know what a triangle was back then, cuz I think that was in the eighties.

• 2:25:32Speaker 02

  I wasn't even alive.

• 2:25:33Joe Rogan?

  When was? When was Le, when did Lethal Weapon one come out? Edge of Darkness.

• 2:25:39Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 2:25:39Speaker 03

  Lethal Weapon, I think it's like eighty-seven or eighty-eight.

• 2:25:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, so, uh, back then, no one knew what a fucking triangle was, other than the Gracies. People in Brazil knew. Brazil was so far ahead of the curve, man, they were having MMA fights in the thirties.

• 2:25:51Speaker 02

  Dude, I was, uh, I went there for my boy Tuco, he fought in the favela, right? And, uh, yeah, look at this.

• 2:25:59Joe Rogan?

  He was Gary Busey who was fighting in the end, who was the guy who was fighting in the end? I don't remember. I think it's Gary Busey, right? Yeah, it is Gary Busey.

• 2:26:08Speaker 02

  You know, he had a headache.

• 2:26:11Speaker 05

  Come on, Rick, break his neck, come on.

• 2:26:21Joe Rogan?

  Movies in The 80s were so wild dude.

• 2:26:31Joe Rogan?

  We don't need to watch the whole thing, let's just cut to the triangle. This is silly.

• 2:26:35Speaker 03

  Thought it was coming.

• 2:26:36Joe Rogan?

  I thought so too.

• 2:26:39Speaker 03

  He's got his back.

• 2:26:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Gary Busey tried to take it to the ground, outrageous. Mel got swept so easily, oh, Mel's on top.

• 2:26:48Joe Rogan?

  Ahhh! Everybody was doing cocaine when they were right move, oh, look at that, he goes right for an armbar, oh sloppy, terrible technique. Terrible left hook, the left leg like barely held on there, that was some.

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  Wow, there it is.

• 2:27:01Joe Rogan?

  That's not bad, that's not bad, that's pretty good, I like that.

• 2:27:04Speaker 02

  He got a good angle?

• 2:27:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's not bad at all.

• 2:27:06Speaker 02

  That's tight.

• 2:27:06Joe Rogan?

  He's cinching it up right there, everybody at home is like, what is happening?

• 2:27:10Speaker 02

  Another man put his legs around another man's head.

• 2:27:12Joe Rogan?

  I remember when Hoist Gracie did that to Dan Severn, everybody was like, what's going on? Like, what is happening? And then all of a sudden you see Dan Severn tap and you're like,

• 2:27:21Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:27:22Joe Rogan?

  What happened? What did he do? Put him to sleep.

• 2:27:27Speaker 02

  My, my friend would know better the lineage and stuff, right? That's where he's my, he's my intelligence. But, um, we went to Brazil, right, for his fight, he was fighting in the favela at, um, Jose Aldo's gym.

• 2:27:40Joe Rogan?

  Nova Uniao?

• 2:27:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like right on the edge of the favela, it's, it's nice though.

• 2:27:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Andre Petaneras?

• 2:27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was there, he was super nice.

• 2:27:47Joe Rogan?

  He's awesome.

• 2:27:47Speaker 02

  He was super nice, super hospitable.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  That guy's a pioneer dude.

• 2:27:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:27:51Joe Rogan?

  He was fighting at Mame in early days, bare knuckle.

• 2:27:54Speaker 02

  Really, I didn't know that.

• 2:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Andre Petaneras, oh my god, man, yeah.

• 2:27:57Speaker 02

  I just, I didn't know him, we, we met a lot of great guys, but we, uh, we were there with Daniel Gracie, and I think it's Henzo's mom, and then his dad, like, the whole lineage was there before he passed away, he was there. We went over there and we were sitting on their couch, chilling, hanging out, talking, meeting all of them, and again, I am absolutely god awful with names, but I knew like as soon as he come out of the stairs, he was going somewhere, he had a nice jacket, oh no, he was doing an interview with, um, uh, he was doing an interview, like a little podcast or something, it was all in Portuguese, I couldn't understand what they were saying, but, they had met him, super nice, and then like, I think like it was, it wasn't too long after that he passed away, but like, that's like the, one of the starts of Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

• 2:28:40Joe Rogan?

  Was it Ilio? Was it Carlos? Who was it?

• 2:28:43Speaker 02

  I think it was. Carlos, I think, I don't.

• 2:28:46Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't matter.

• 2:28:47Speaker 02

  It was one of them.

• 2:28:48Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:28:49Speaker 02

  I could figure it out though.

• 2:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:28:50Speaker 02

  But dude, super nice, like they were all explaining like the lineage and I've been, I started with.

• 2:28:54Joe Rogan?

  What's that Jamie? Oh, sorry.

• 2:28:57Speaker 02

  I started with like Gracie Jiu Jitsu, so like I used to know that lineage fairly well, but then you know how life is, you just get away and kinda forget you're not around it as much, but.

• 2:29:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's a crazy lineage. I mean, that one family's responsible for changing mixed martial arts.

• 2:29:11Speaker 02

  Dude, they were telling us so many like cool stories, like things that I had heard through the grapevine, you know, from other people when I was younger, but they confirmed it and like they were even like asking like where the beef comes from in the family, you know, like what started that? Exactly what started, cause obviously he was in it. He, dude, he, well, they translated for us. But he was saying like how it all got started.

• 2:29:33Joe Rogan?

  But beef between what parts of the family?

• 2:29:35Speaker 02

  Two beefs that, that they have? Uh, no, it was, uh, Carlos and who's the one, one of the brothers went out on their own. Cause he was like, I don't want nothing to do with this part of the family.

• 2:29:47Joe Rogan?

  Was it Horian?

• 2:29:48Speaker 02

  Maybe it was, I know that name, they were saying that name a lot.

• 2:29:51Joe Rogan?

  Horian started the UFC.

• 2:29:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it might've been him.

• 2:29:53Joe Rogan?

  And Horian also trained Mel Gibson.

• 2:29:56Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:29:56Joe Rogan?

  For, for this lethal weapon fight scene. There he is, Horian Gracie.

• 2:30:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:30:00Joe Rogan?

  Horian Gracie in Playboy magazine challenged Mike Tyson to a no rules fight.

• 2:30:06Speaker 02

  See, I don't wanna sound stupid, so I don't like to say, say too many names, but you're gonna make me call my friend and ask him when we leave here.

• 2:30:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, Iliio was his father, you know, Hickson's obviously his brother, Hoist is his brother, Hoiler's his brother. I think Hoiler and Hoist are half brothers.

• 2:30:20Speaker 02

  Yes, I knew that, they were, they were saying that, but they were just kinda like going over like old times and stories and like, they were talking about that, cause apparently like with, they were saying like, well, Daniel was saying like within the family, cause he's a Gracie, but I think he's, he's like, it was his mom or something like that was, so he's still a Gracie. But anyway, or his, no, his cousin was a Gracie, so technically like, he's not a real blood Gracie, I don't know, they tried to explain it, it's very weird, but anyway, we were there and they can't, they don't talk about it, like why there's a, a divide between this side of the family and this side, and they, they explained to like, even when they were kids. Like they would go in and get into it, like say you'd go in and you get in a fight in the street, just like, maybe you're 12 years old.

• 2:31:05Speaker 02

  It started, they said like basically that young, that like there was a divide between whatever one and this one, and, um. Because they would go get in a fight and he would come back and rat on them. And he was like, "Bro, come on." You know, so it started as that young and he said it was a lot. It wasn't even like, "Oh, it was just one time." No, like multiple times, you know? So it was just interesting to hear like these stories that these guys had of like when they were young in the streets, like fighting in Rio.

• 2:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, I mean, there's a video of Hickson fighting somebody on the beach.

• 2:31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, they talk about it.

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Some Lucha Libre guy, he smacks him on the beach.

• 2:31:39Speaker 02

  He talks about it, they were talking about it.

• 2:31:40Joe Rogan?

  They're fighting in the sand, scrapping on the beach.

• 2:31:43Speaker 02

  Daniel was there for that. Daniel was there. He was the one that brought it up. He was there right, he said they showed the picture of it and he was right in the back.

• 2:31:50Joe Rogan?

  Hickson has little surfer shorts on.

• 2:31:52Speaker 02

  Yep. He even, Daniel explained how it started. I don't remember that exact details, but dude, it was like...

• 2:31:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, they would dojo storm each other. They would show up at places and challenge like Lucha Libre gyms and Lucha Libre guys would show up at the Gracie Dojo.

• 2:32:07Speaker 02

  Dude, it was like...

• 2:32:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, here it is. Look at Hickson with them beautiful colored shorts on. He just smacks them. Like, "Come on, baby, it's on." And the dude's like, "Take your shoes off. Come on, let's go." Like, "There, hold my shoes."

• 2:32:22Joe Rogan?

  Bro, these were wild times.

• 2:32:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:32:24Joe Rogan?

  Especially when you take into consideration Hickson's widely considered one of the absolute greatest jiu-jitsu practitioners of all time. You know, and that he was willing to have these kind of fights on the beach in Rio, these no rules fights, just surrounded by dudes.

• 2:32:39Speaker 02

  And man-thongs.

• 2:32:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, and not have any striking. Look, see how Hickson's winging punches? These guys had no striking at all. It's really kind of crazy. I mean, not, not ever saying there's anything wrong with anything that Hickson ever did, because he's like one of the greatest of all time. But if you look at the difference between a guy that's just a pure grappler like Hickson, even when he fought in Pride. Remember he'd come out with this, throw those little stomp kicks, just try to get, he's just getting you to the ground. It's all getting you to the ground. There's no one like that now. No one has very little stand-up. There's no one who fights like that.

• 2:33:14Speaker 02

  And it's crazy because there is like so many stories about like, Hoist wasn't even supposed to be the one to fight, you know? He wasn't even supposed to be the one. They were supposed to have the other one.

• 2:33:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, Hickson was always the champion of the family. And Hoist had always said that Hickson was 10 times better than him. He said Hickson, "Hickson tapped me every day. Every day I go to the gym, Hickson tapped me." But it's just like, that's just how it was, but there was all, there was a lot of rumors. One of the rumors was that... So this is the narrative. Hoist says it's because he's so beautiful. He's like, "Look at his face. Of course they picked me." That's what he said on the podcast. It was hilarious. Because he's so handsome. But Hickson's handsome too, so it didn't make any sense. But it was, I think it's because Hoist could show that it was the technique. Because like Hickson was shredded. He was pretty jacked too, and he looked like, like a world champion athlete. Whereas Hoist looked like a 170-pound guy,

• 2:34:08Joe Rogan?

  who was like, you know, not that muscular, and it was just technique. It was him using beautiful jujitsu technique that nobody knew what it was. It was like the best advertisement ever for jujitsu. When you see a 175-pound guy tapping out Dan Severin, you know, it was this huge wrestler, and Kimo, when he got him in that arm bar, like all the shit that Hoist did. Ken Shamrock, when he tapped him. Crazy to watch a guy that's like so much smaller than everybody else dominate everyone, and everyone was afraid of him. So it was like the perfect thing. And the thought was, okay, well, if he ever does lose, we always have Hickson.

• 2:34:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:34:42Joe Rogan?

  And then, but Hickson went off to Japan, and he did Japan Valley Tudo, and then he did Pride. And, you know, this was always, there was talk at one point in time of Hickson fighting Fedor. They were throwing money around for Hickson after he fought in that Coliseum show, which I think was in 2000. When did he fight Funaki? When did Hickson fight Funaki? I think it was the year 2000. And they were talking about Hickson fighting Fedor. They had made him an offer, Japan, for him to come on, and he wanted to do it. And it never came.

• 2:35:16Speaker 02

  I wish you, I wish you could have heard like, again, because I'm so bad with names, and my memory's not as good as it used to be, but it's one of my favorite memories from fighting.

• 2:35:25Joe Rogan?

  2000. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:35:28Speaker 02

  It's one of my favorite memories from fighting, just sitting there and listening to these guys, because the, the history was frickin' insane. The stories were awesome, like, it was, but like I said, I'm terrible with names, so I'm very bad with like,

• 2:35:41Joe Rogan?

  So look at that, Andre Petterneris on that card versus Genki Sudo.

• 2:35:45Speaker 02

  Sure is.

• 2:35:45Joe Rogan?

  Ended in a draw. And Genki Sudo was a bad motherfucker. That's how good Petterneris was.

• 2:35:50Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 2:35:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, Petterneris was legit, man.

• 2:35:53Speaker 02

  Damn.

• 2:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Very legit, very legit.

• 2:35:55Speaker 02

  Damn, I know he was a great coach. I didn't know he fought.

• 2:35:58Joe Rogan?

  Fought in the early, early days. You know, I mean, it was, he might have even fought in Extreme Combat. Did he fight in Extreme Combat? He might have, like, that was back in the day when Mario Sperry first burst on the scene. He fought back then. Igor Zanoviev, all these dudes that everybody forgot about. They fought and, uh, that was, uh, John Peretti's card. So John Peretti, who was the commentator for the early days of the UFC, then John Peretti went over and started his own organization for a while.

• 2:36:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy, like, I think, like, sometimes, well, I know, like I said, I'm bad at names, right? But it's like, I went and fought in Seattle last year. Or, this year, I fought in Seattle this year. And, uh, they did like, there was Amanda Nunez, Robbie Lawler, and there was one more that got inducted into the Hall of Fame this year. And, uh, nobody could give, like, really any fights for whoever the other person was. And not many could give too much for Robbie Lawler. I was like, "Bro, how have you not heard about Robbie Lawler?"

• 2:36:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you mean they weren't clapping?

• 2:37:00Speaker 02

  No, like, uh-

• 2:37:01Joe Rogan?

  So here it is, let me just go over this real quick. Petterneris, his debut fight, Valley Tudo Japan, that's what it was. He defeated, uh, Rumeno Sato, and then, uh-

• 2:37:12Speaker 02

  Pat?

• 2:37:12Joe Rogan?

  Pat Melitich for the UFC welterweight title, UFC 21. We lost in the second round, technical knockout, and then he fought Kao Uno.

• 2:37:20Speaker 02

  He was a savage, I remember-

• 2:37:21Joe Rogan?

  That ended in a draw. So Genki Sudo and Kao Uno, two savages, and both of those fights were draws. And, um, the last one with Genki Sudo was his last MMA fight. So how many fights did he have overall? Four fights.

• 2:37:35Speaker 02

  But shit, they're all good.

• 2:37:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, he fought legit guys, man. He beat Rumeno Sato. You know, Rumeno Sato, man, was fucking terrifying back then. KO, soccer kick KO, oof.

• 2:37:46Speaker 02

  Damn.

• 2:37:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:47Speaker 02

  But, yeah, it was like, um, it was just different, man. That timeframe was just different, you know?

• 2:37:52Joe Rogan?

  Well, it is, uh, it's the birth of the sport. And it's, it's kind of amazing to have been there at the very beginning and to be able to watch it. You know, um, when I, when I, I first found out about it, I couldn't believe it was real. I had a bunch of friends that told me about it. I think I, I've, I heard about it from dudes at, uh, do you remember Benny Urquides? Do you know who he was?

• 2:38:13Speaker 02

  No, I don't know.

• 2:38:13Joe Rogan?

  Benny the Jet was a famous kickboxer. Now I'm really going back.

• 2:38:17Speaker 02

  I feel like I know that name though.

• 2:38:18Joe Rogan?

  He was, uh, one of the best kickboxers of all time. Um, and this was like way back in the day, like in the early eighties. Benny the Jet was the fucking man in the late seventies and the early eighties. And he had this gym in California, in Van Nuys, California called the Jet Center. And when I first moved out to California, there's two places I knew I really had to go. One was the Comedy Store and the other was the Jet Center. And so I got to, I got to work out at the Jet Center. And Benny was there and his cousin, uh, Blinkie, he was there and, uh, Blinkie Rodriguez, who was another elite kickboxer, uh, who, who actually knocked out Jean-Yves Terrio, who's like one of the best kickboxers of all time. So it was like this incredible gym. But Benny the Jet Urquides was like, he was early, like a pi- like, like a, the Bill

• 2:39:03Joe Rogan?

  Superfoot Wallace days, like back in those days, you know? And, um, I forget what I was just saying, what, I lost my train of thought. What were we just talking about before that?

• 2:39:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, you moved to LA.

• 2:39:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I had a point. I had a point about these, uh, early MMA fighters.

• 2:39:21Speaker 02

  Oh, you were saying it's the birth of?

• 2:39:22Joe Rogan?

  This, the birth is, of the sport. So watching that, this, this was, this is what my point was. Watching that where there was not even leg kicks to watching all of a sudden you see Rick Rufus and he fought that dude from Thailand, like one of the most important fights in the history of martial arts, cause you get to see that dude from Thailand just chop Rick Rufus's legs apart. And then Rick and Duke both learned from that and said, okay, we gotta incorporate that into our game. Duke becomes a world Muay Thai champion after that, which is like it cha- and then Duke becomes one of the best MMA coaches ever. So it changes the entire course of the sport. And when I got into it and started watching it in, that's what it was. So the Jet Center, one of the guys from the Jet Center was like, you gotta see this thing, it's called the UFC, this is in 94.

• 2:40:07Joe Rogan?

  I was like, what? What is it? It was UFC two. Like I didn't even see UFC. I saw UFC two because that was the only one that was available on VHS. So I watched UFC two and I was like, this is crazy. I'm like, how is this guy doing this? Like this is, and I was like, oh my God, like, how is everybody so vulnerable to this one guy? Like, this is nuts. So I was like, I gotta train jiu-jitsu. And watching all of these people from that, that era, and watching the level of the competition at that era and what the fights looked like versus today, there's not another sport on earth where you could see a gigantic difference between 1994 and 2025. Like a gigantic difference where it's unrecognizable.

• 2:40:52Joe Rogan?

  The, like that kid that you were talking about before, the 18-year-old kid, what's his name again?

• 2:40:55Speaker 02

  Antsar.

• 2:40:56Joe Rogan?

  That guy would have been a world champion.

• 2:40:57Speaker 02

  Easy.

• 2:40:58Joe Rogan?

  A world champion.

• 2:40:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:00Joe Rogan?

  Like, no one would have fucked with him. I mean, they would, we would have said, this is the greatest fighter that's ever walked the face of the planet. And he's a kid that's on undercards of small regional shows now, right? How crazy is that? So like, when you see these guys in the Dana White Contender Series, some of these guys coming up, I'm watching them fight for their first fight in the Contender Series. I'm like, this guy looks like he'd be fighting for the title. Like, they're complete fighters. They're fast, they have good technique, everything they're doing is smart. It's like, the level has changed so much in such a short period of time. And I feel so lucky to be able to see the whole thing. I saw the whole thing, like, from the ground floor to today.

• 2:41:35Speaker 02

  It's crazy because you probably hear it all the time, right? Like, I was probably watching Fear Factor before I knew it the UFC. So when I saw the UFC, I was like, dad, look, it's, it's him. He was like, he looks at me, because obviously my dad's seen it before, he's like, yes, and he's, he's been around a while. You know, he's been in the UFC, I don't even know if it was longer, but I'm sure it was.

• 2:41:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was, I started working for the UFC in 97.

• 2:41:58Speaker 02

  So he was like, he's always been there. So then, obviously, as I get older, I start seeing history and looking at old fights and older fights. And I see, I notice you there the whole time. And like, me and my friend Tuco have these conversations. But I was like, bro, Joe's a real one, though. He's, he's been here the whole time. Like, how awesome does that have to be for like you, Dana, Fertitas, and probably a few others too, that nobody knows that have seen this thing grow from what it was to what it is today?

• 2:42:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's amazing.

• 2:42:28Speaker 02

  It's gotta be.

• 2:42:28Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing. Yeah, I feel so lucky. I'm, I'm so fortunate. Like it's one of the things I look forward to more than anything in life.

• 2:42:35Speaker 02

  And like you said.

• 2:42:36Joe Rogan?

  UFC weekend, I'm like, oh, boy, here we go. I get so excited. I've been doing this forever. I still, I started UFC 12 in 1997. That was the first fight that I ever did backstage interviews. That's what I did. Or post-fight interviews too. I think I started doing interviews backstage and then I interviewed guys after the fight was over. That was, you know, early.

• 2:42:55Speaker 02

  But how'd you, how'd you start there?

• 2:42:57Joe Rogan?

  It was a crazy fluke. So I was already doing jujitsu. I was at Carlson Gracie's. This is back before Vitor made his debut. I was training at Vitor's, with Vitor's gym. With Mario Sperry. I took lessons from Mario Sperry when I was a white belt. It was awesome, dude. Marilena Bustamante was there all the time. There was a ton of the Carlson Gracie killers, you know, the two bulldogs, you know, fighting each other.

• 2:43:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:22Joe Rogan?

  And Carlson was there every day. So I got to train there when I was on news radio, the sitcom. I was, so it was just like 1996? And I just loved that there was, this was before Vitor fought in the UFC. So he, while he was training at the gym with us. He went and fought this guy, John Hess. John Hess was this big, tall, he fought in the UFC as well, I believe. I believe he did. John Hess was this, he had a style called SAFTA. I forget what it was about, but it was like, back then dudes would just like make up their own style, street fighting, artistic, finger fucking. You know, they would make up some sort of a fucking acronym. But Vitor blitzed across the ring, he was 19 years old. And just lit this guy up like a machine gun, like, got him down,

• 2:44:09Joe Rogan?

  like put him out on the ground. Like it was so crazy and so fast. The most ferocious display of ground and pound I had ever seen in my life at the time. And I was like, this is crazy. And so just randomly, they had a guy who was doing the post-fight interviews and they wanted to get a new guy. And they were looking for people and the guy Campbell McLaren, who was the producer of the UFC, happened to be friends with my manager. From the comedy club days. Campbell used to work at a comedy club with my manager. And they, they were just shooting the shit over the phone. He goes, Hey, I'm looking for someone to do interviews for the UFC. Um, do you know anybody that'd be interested in him? He was like, Joe was a huge fan.

• 2:44:49Joe Rogan?

  He's like, Joe watches every one of them. I, I actually got DirecTV just so I could watch the UFC, because that's when it was banned from cable. So I got my cable removed and I got DirecTV put in my house, just so I could watch the UFC, because it was the only way you could catch it. And then, uh, it was no money. And I was supposed to fly to New York, but then the last minute, it got canceled. They made it illegal in New York. And we had to fly to Dothan, Alabama, on a fucking propeller plane. I, I shared a propeller plane with Randy Couture.

• 2:45:20Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, actually, that was later, later. That was in Louisiana. I shared a propeller plane with Randy Couture. Randy didn't fight that. But it was, uh, Vitor made his debut against Trey Telegman. And everybody thought he was a jiu-jitsu guy, because he was from Carlson Gracie. He had a black belt. And he just came out just throwing missiles, just missiles so fast, like, nobody had seen anything like that. And he was only like 200 pounds back then. He was light and fast and, and strong as shit. And then he fought, uh, Scott Faroza and took him out in the finals. So he won this heavyweight tournament. And that was, uh, 1997.

• 2:45:58Speaker 02

  That's crazy. That was the third person I was trying to think of when I was in Seattle. So basically what happened, UFC was asking fighters, "Hey, were these, these three guys?" They weren't saying they were getting inducted, but obviously if you've been around.

• 2:46:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was Vitor?

• 2:46:11Speaker 02

  It was Vitor, uh, Amanda Nunez and Robbie Lawler.

• 2:46:14Joe Rogan?

  They weren't cheering for Vitor?

• 2:46:16Speaker 02

  No, they were asking the fighters, right? They were asking the fighters, uh, "Hey, if, do you know who these guys are? If you do, what's your most memorable moment of them? What do you, what was your favorite moment?" Like, anything like that, right? Because obviously they put it on the montage when they announce it.

• 2:46:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:46:32Speaker 02

  And, um, they told me that only me and two other fighters on the entire card could give a fight from Vitor. I was like, "No way." I was like, "That highlight that you're talking about, when he sprints across, ding ding ding ding, even if you don't know the person, how do you not see that highlight?"

• 2:46:49Joe Rogan?

  When he did that to Vanderlei, remember we did?

• 2:46:51Speaker 02

  That's the one I said. That's what I said. That was my vandalize, was that one.

• 2:46:54Joe Rogan?

  That was crazy, but I think the scariest Vitor of all time was TRT Vitor. TRT Vitor was the scariest fucking human being that ever stepped into that cage. If they never banned TRT, I, I think that guy would have been a terror for every fucking human being that weighed, that weighed 185 pounds.

• 2:47:13Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:47:13Joe Rogan?

  The way he wheel kicked Luke Rockhold, like what the fuck are we looking at, man? He, eh, we never saw him throw a wheel kick in his whole career. All of a sudden, he's wheel kicking guys in the head.

• 2:47:22Speaker 02

  He come in the gym, like, cause obviously he live in Florida. He come in the gym and he is the nicest guy. Brother, brother, come here, come here.

• 2:47:29Joe Rogan?

  Very nice guy.

• 2:47:30Speaker 02

  Let's talk about it. Hey, I think, uh, I think you need to slow down a little bit. These hundred percent every days, no good, brother. He said, why don't you come? We can have some coffee, have lunch and let's talk about it. I love the science behind the sport. Uh, but super nice guy, right? Like those are conversations that I had with him and, uh, if I see him, great guy. Before this, never had a conversation with him, only watched him on TV, you know? But that was like the first interaction I ever had with Vitor as a person. I don't know if he knew who I was. He just watched me spar and then come to me after. That was it.

• 2:48:02Joe Rogan?

  That's very nice of him.

• 2:48:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, super nice guy.

• 2:48:05Joe Rogan?

  A real OG like him, that's been again, fighting since 1997, 1997, that's almost 30 years. That's literally crazy.

• 2:48:14Speaker 02

  Dude, it hurt my heart when they said that people didn't like, no, couldn't like say fights for him. Couldn't even say a highlight.

• 2:48:19Joe Rogan?

  It's hard, you know, these young guys, a lot of them are 25 years old, 24 years old. They didn't watch this, Joshua Van, 24, right? Like didn't watch the sport a lot before they were involved in it. And the, the fights that they've really seen a lot of have been the last few years.

• 2:48:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's what Josh Van, that's why I said his name, he's young, but he says the same thing. Cause they were like, why do you think Pinto's the goat? He's like, I know Demetrius Johnson is what everyone says. He was like, but I, I never got to see him, you know, like I was, I was too young.

• 2:48:46Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy too. Go watch. It's online.

• 2:48:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:49Joe Rogan?

  Go see it, Joshua.

• 2:48:50Speaker 02

  YouTube's free, bro.

• 2:48:51Joe Rogan?

  You the champ now, Joshua. Go back and watch Mighty Mouse. Cause that motherfucker was extraordinary.

• 2:48:56Speaker 02

  He was.

• 2:48:57Joe Rogan?

  Mighty Mouse in his time was extra.

• 2:48:59Speaker 02

  Shit, he was still special when he fought that, that big Brazilian kid in. Uh huh.

• 2:49:03Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:49:03Speaker 02

  He lost one and then he beat him twice, right?

• 2:49:04Joe Rogan?

  Lost the first time in one championship and then he got KO'd and then KO'd him the exact same way.

• 2:49:09Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:49:09Joe Rogan?

  With a knee. Yeah.

• 2:49:10Speaker 02

  I didn't know it was the same way.

• 2:49:11Joe Rogan?

  Both got KO'd with knees and both got KO'd against the cage with knees. It was, it was literally like almost the exact same, except Demetrius's was more artistic. It was beautiful. The flow where he was like chasing him, he rocked him and then he's chasing him down. He's like, not yet. There it is. And he just launches and catches him with this, you've seen it, right?

• 2:49:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I seen it.

• 2:49:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God.

• 2:49:31Speaker 02

  I didn't know it was the same way.

• 2:49:32Joe Rogan?

  What is that dude's name? The dude he KO'd?

• 2:49:36Joe Rogan?

  Just.

• 2:49:37Speaker 02

  Andre? I don't know.

• 2:49:38Joe Rogan?

  Search, uh, Demetrius Johnson flying knee KO 1 FC. I bet you'll find it.

• 2:49:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Adriano Marais. That's it. That's it. And Marais is good, dude. He's really good. He's really big. And 1 FC's got that squirrely weight cutting jazz. So this is, uh, the second fight after Marais had KO'd him in the first fight. And also this is a DJ that's probably 35 years old, right?

• 2:50:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:50:05Joe Rogan?

  I mean, and after a long career in the UFC, widely recognized as the greatest flyweight of all time in the UFC. And to me, like, he just didn't get the love that he deserved when he was in his prime because he was 125 pounds. And for whatever reason, I mean, it's not like it's not even more interesting to watch, like, but people have this weird thing, like, a heavyweight could beat anywhere, anyone in the world. 125 pound guy will dump him on his head. Stop. Watch him fight. Like, right there. Boom!

• 2:50:36Speaker 02

  Well, that's beautiful.

• 2:50:36Joe Rogan?

  But back it up, back, back it up a second so you can see the sequence. Look, right hand, timing, boom. Perfect. The timing is just so beautiful. That's so, look, that's fucking artistic, man. That is so artistic.

• 2:50:49Speaker 02

  Perfect.

• 2:50:50Joe Rogan?

  And to KO a guy with the shit he KO'd you with in the first fight is wild.

• 2:50:54Speaker 02

  Dude, I don't know much about like Demetrius as a person. But from what I've seen of him, obviously because you see more now that he's on like, uh, doing his like streaming and stuff. He is like.

• 2:51:04Joe Rogan?

  He's the best.

• 2:51:04Speaker 02

  He's the definition of a martial artist too. He cares about the pureness of being a martial artist rather than the views or the belt or any of that. So I respect that a lot.

• 2:51:13Joe Rogan?

  Talking stupid shit just to get attention. He hates people that do that kind of stuff. He hates disrespectful stuff. He's such a nice guy, but also just so smart about his approach to the sport. Just so clever inside the cage and also so fucking fast, man.

• 2:51:29Speaker 02

  Dude, insane reaction.

• 2:51:31Joe Rogan?

  One time I grabbed him just as, just being silly at a UFC. He was in front of me and I put my arms around him like from behind, you know, like saying hi to somebody. And he turned around, he looked at me, goes, ta-da. He hit me with two knees to the body, like just touched me. It was so fast. I was like, dude, that was so scary. I go, you hit me so fast. I didn't even see them coming. It was like, ta-da. It just like, just, just moved like a cat.

• 2:51:55Speaker 02

  And you know, like you said, he was probably 35 or whatever there. He could still compete with the best in the world. No problem.

• 2:52:01Joe Rogan?

  And juice free too. Juice free with the best in the world. And by the way, over there. I don't know what kind of drug test they're doing, but it's probably multiple choice.

• 2:52:12Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of them organizations where you're like, how hard are you testing really?

• 2:52:17Speaker 02

  Man said multiple choice.

• 2:52:18Joe Rogan?

  You know, because like, if you're not testing all throughout camp randomly, you're not really testing, you know? Because we have to remember that Alistair Overeem, when he fought Brock Lesnar was tested. And that is the juiciest man that's ever walked the face of planet earth. The Alistair Overeem that fought Brock Lesnar is the juiciest guy I've ever seen fight.

• 2:52:40Speaker 02

  It was horse meat.

• 2:52:41Joe Rogan?

  And I wish he could keep juicing. I do. I think we would have seen, we've seen a different result. If you, you let Alistair stay juicy and stay 265 with world-class kickboxing skills. And also he was so jacked that he could kind of hide from punches. Cause when he would shell up, especially in K1, when he had those big gloves, bro, when he would shell up. So he's got. And shoulders and then traps, everything's all protected.

• 2:53:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're not hitting nothing.

• 2:53:11Joe Rogan?

  And he's got that high guard and he's coming in like this, throwing bombs.

• 2:53:14Speaker 02

  Dude, crazy.

• 2:53:15Joe Rogan?

  And he looks like a superhero. He looks like a guy from a fucking comic book.

• 2:53:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's just let everyone juice. If you want to juice, just everyone juice. Let's make it an even playing field. Instead of let's try to catch who's not, or let's catch who's juicing.

• 2:53:27Joe Rogan?

  Would you if they, if they just opened the gates?

• 2:53:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:53:30Speaker 02

  I'll start it off by saying yes.

• 2:53:34Speaker 02

  When I was younger, I was like, no, I'd never juice. I want to be all natural to show everything. Like, show I'm just that good. Then I was like, as I got older and seen it, I was like, nah.

• 2:53:46Speaker 02

  I would. But that's like, I remember I fought Eric Anders for LFA, right? And they have pictures of him on the scale, the day of the fight, 222, 223, one of them two, right? I'm stepping in, I don't even really cut, I'm stepping in like 194. I'm young. I don't cut really anything. That time I did cut a lot, though. That was the first fight I cut a lot for because I was lifting like crazy and I wasn't really doing nothing else. Cause I was in Louisiana. I used to train with Rich Clemente.

• 2:54:14Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:54:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you know, he's crazy as hell. Uh, so I was training there, but I was lifting more than anything. But anyway, I was probably like 196ish, 197. No more than 200 for sure. No questions asked. And, uh, dude, they, they come in the back that night and they're like, hey, we're drug testing you. I said, what? He said, yeah, yeah, we're gonna drug test you. It's random. I said, well, if it's random, is he getting drug tested too? They're like, nah. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you're telling me the man who's weighing over 220 and just weighed 185 exact yesterday is not getting tested? But the guy who's only weighing like 14 whatever pounds more is getting tested? I pulled up my shirt. I said, does it look like I'm on fucking steroids? Does it look like it?

• 2:55:00Speaker 02

  I said, give me some credit, bro. If I was gonna take it, I promise you I would look like it. And they're like, I'm sorry, bro. This is, it's just our job. I was like, all right, let's go get it done. But it's just like.

• 2:55:09Joe Rogan?

  How did you randomly test only a few people on the roster? That has to be like a budget thing. That has to be a budget thing.

• 2:55:15Speaker 02

  Texas commission.

• 2:55:17Joe Rogan?

  That's cra- but that must be like, they don't want to spend money on everybody.

• 2:55:20Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:55:21Joe Rogan?

  If you, it has one guy on the card, you should have to test everybody.

• 2:55:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it was a total of three or four guys is what they said, that they tested on the whole card.

• 2:55:29Joe Rogan?

  If you're testing a guy, you have to test his opponent.

• 2:55:31Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 2:55:32Joe Rogan?

  You have to. That's crazy.

• 2:55:33Speaker 02

  I was, I, I still to this day, I laugh at that. I'm like, come on, bro. Every time someone asks me like, hey, what's up, what's up? Come on, bro.

• 2:55:40Joe Rogan?

  There was a few fights where they stopped, they wouldn't let a guy fight because um, they, in the TRT days, they did test to see what people's levels are. And one guy, I don't want to say his name, but one guy was so high that they canceled the main event.

• 2:55:53Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:55:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they canceled the main event at the weigh-in. Yeah.

• 2:55:56Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 2:55:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:57Speaker 02

  I didn't know that.

• 2:55:58Joe Rogan?

  He was so juicy, they were worried that he was gonna die. They were like, you could, like, your levels are so, whatever you fucking did, you should not be fighting with this level of testosterone in your system, also on TRT. So it wasn't like, this guy's just some genetic freak, like Yoel Romero, coming out of the Cuban sports program. No, it wasn't-

• 2:56:17Speaker 02

  He's a special human too.

• 2:56:18Joe Rogan?

  That's a special human. Yeah.

• 2:56:19Speaker 02

  Do you ever heard of a guy, um, Clovis, I think Clovis Hancock, he died in the fight. I think it was for Legacy or LFA. I fought him, then his next fight, he died in the cage and, and they brought him back.

• 2:56:36Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:56:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, CPR. It's, it was all over the internet. I fought that dude. I was like, no way. I saw that next day, I seen it, like, yeah, they had to give him CPR till the ambulance, uh, got him loaded up and taken to the hospital.

• 2:56:49Joe Rogan?

  So his heart just stopped beating?

• 2:56:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:56:51Speaker 02

  Never, obviously never allowed to fight again, but-

• 2:56:53Joe Rogan?

  Obviously, yeah.

• 2:56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, crazy.

• 2:56:55Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if he wanted to? Oh my god.

• 2:56:57Speaker 02

  He probably did, bro. He was funny. I ain't gonna lie.

• 2:56:59Joe Rogan?

  Some guys just have that dog in them, they don't care. Cyborg wanted to fight again after he got his skull crushed by MVP.

• 2:57:05Speaker 02

  No way.

• 2:57:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he thought he was gonna fight again after that. So here it is. Can you imagine being in the audience watching that? They're doing fucking CPR on a dude.

• 2:57:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, that's so scary.

• 2:57:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I remember he was the cut man for USA.

• 2:57:18Joe Rogan?

  That's so scary.

• 2:57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, it's, it's, uh, crazy.

• 2:57:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, thank god they have those EMTs on standby and, you know.

• 2:57:25Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 2:57:25Joe Rogan?

  These organizations, they do their very best to screen people and make sure that they're as healthy as possible. The UFC does a real good job with that.

• 2:57:31Speaker 02

  He was dead for five minutes? Yeah, dead for five minutes. He was dead for five minutes? The cut, the cut man was the guy that was giving him CPR. It wasn't even the EMTs.

• 2:57:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Thank god the cut man knew CPR. Holy shit, dude.

• 2:57:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, crazy.

• 2:57:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, reminds you, this is not a game. It's a, it's a crazy ass fucking sport. So what's next for you? Do you know? Do they have you lined up for anything?

• 2:57:53Speaker 02

  Uh, no. I've been pushing. Uh, hopefully Drakis, hopefully March, April at the latest.

• 2:58:01Joe Rogan?

  So do you need like that much time to prepare? Or is that like how you'd like to?

• 2:58:05Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I just kinda, I started training again today, matter of fact.

• 2:58:11Speaker 02

  So training, guiding.

• 2:58:12Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that'll get him excited about fighting you.

• 2:58:14Speaker 02

  Huh?

• 2:58:14Joe Rogan?

  Maybe that'll get him excited about fighting. Maybe that's a trap. Maybe that's a trap. If I was Drakis, I'm like, this motherfucker probably has a full six pack. If he takes his shirt off, he's probably ripped as fuck.

• 2:58:21Speaker 02

  Six pack of rolls?

• 2:58:22Joe Rogan?

  He's ready to go. He's just bullshitting, saying he hasn't been training to goad me into a fight.

• 2:58:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, but I, like.

• 2:58:28Joe Rogan?

  So Drakis is the guy that you're hoping for?

• 2:58:30Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. Uh, and it makes sense, like, it's, it's just the right time. Like I said, Imavov is gonna wait for the champion. He earned his spot. They just announced Fluffy and, uh, Shawn. So what's left? It's just me and him.

• 2:58:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a good fight, too. It'd be a great fight to watch and a good fight, you know, for, for you, obviously, fighting former champion, you know, and his next, and for Drakis, it's like, that's a, that's the kind of fight you need at this point. You know, you need to turn back the young lions.

• 2:58:58Speaker 02

  I've been trying to fight him since he got into the UFC. I just felt like, I still feel this way. I feel like he's the luckiest guy I've ever seen. Like, don't get me wrong, he does have a couple fights now, but before he got the belt, I always said like, he's the luckiest guy. Like, Marcus Perez was beating his ass. Marcus Perez wanted to do something crazy and, and went to throw a spinning elbow. Drakis was throwing a body shot when he was throwing the spinning elbow and he hit him right in the mouth. Drakis hit Marcus right in the mouth. Out.

• 2:59:27Joe Rogan?

  I don't think you can call that lucky.

• 2:59:28Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:59:29Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I know what you're saying, but he finds a way to win. The dude's a dog.

• 2:59:33Speaker 02

  He is a dog.

• 2:59:34Joe Rogan?

  He finds a way to win. You know, I mean, think about some of them fights that were just like, like. The Otis on your fight, like he just kept, kept coming and found a way to win.

• 2:59:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:59:44Joe Rogan?

  We took Whittaker out in the first round, you can't, there's no.

• 2:59:46Speaker 02

  No, no, I didn't, you're right. That one, I don't see luck in that one.

• 2:59:50Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of.

• 2:59:50Speaker 02

  I think that was a great strategy.

• 2:59:51Joe Rogan?

  He's a fucking animal dude.

• 2:59:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, I love, that's honestly, like, we can say whatever we want about each other, he can joke, talk shit, whatever the case. But I loved the fight because I know he's coming to fight, like, he's coming to kill.

• 3:00:05Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 3:00:06Speaker 02

  I love that. I don't want a guy that's, I like, I've had him, but I don't like the guys that just want to hug, like, he's trying to hurt me. I love that, like, that nervousness brings out the best version of me, because I'm nervous, like, who's not nervous of another man that's gonna, he's trying to hurt me. And his, to me, one of his best attributes is exactly what you said, like, he, you describe it as he finds a way to win. Like, that's a great way. For me, I'm just like, that dude can dig deep.

• 3:00:35Joe Rogan?

  Look, even in the Hamzat fight, even in the Hamzat fight, remember the third, the fifth round?

• 3:00:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:00:40Joe Rogan?

  Fifth round, he's on top, dropping bombs on Hamzat at one point in time. It was a little too late and he didn't get him out of there, but he was not giving up.

• 3:00:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:00:49Joe Rogan?

  He just was getting dominated.

• 3:00:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:00:50Joe Rogan?

  Difference.

• 3:00:51Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 3:00:51Joe Rogan?

  He was still trying to find a way to win.

• 3:00:53Speaker 02

  But I love that, that, that, that motivates me by itself, like.

• 3:00:56Joe Rogan?

  I love hearing that.

• 3:00:57Speaker 02

  I want a guy that's gonna try to come kill me, because what's the worst is gonna happen? He knocks me out? Okay, okay. Like, that's what we came to do anyway. Any man could do it. I've had, I've been TKO'd before, like, alright, cool, but I can do it to you too. You know, so that's what, I, I, I love that aspect of the fight. That's my favorite thing. That's what motivates me about the fight more than the, the number.

• 3:01:20Joe Rogan?

  The danger.

• 3:01:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like that. It's, and I, I, I feel like I really truly haven't had that in, in a while, like a true, like, some guys look at it as a sport and some guys really mean it, like, I'm trying to hurt you. And I like that, like, it brings that out in me too, because like, I'm trying to hurt you, alright, you're gonna try to hurt me? I'm gonna try to hurt you. Or, you know, I don't know, but that's just how I look at the fight and it, it really like excites me, like, that's that demonic side of me coming out, like. Let's see, I'm ready.

• 3:01:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, I love hearing that and I love the fight. I hope you get it.

• 3:01:52Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:01:53Joe Rogan?

  And thanks for being here, man. It was great talking to you. Let everybody know how they can find you on social.

• 3:01:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, on Instagram, at Brendan Allen 185, or B underscore Allen 185. And that's where I'd be. I'm just kinda chill, I'm low key.

• 3:02:08Joe Rogan?

  Alright, brother. Well, hopefully next time I'll talk to you, it's after a victory.

• 3:02:12Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. Thank you for having me. This is such a pleasure being here with all you guys. Thank you so much.

• 3:02:15Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure. Alright, bye everybody.

• 3:02:31Speaker 00

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