Filmmaker & Composer John Carpenter | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

Billy Corgan welcomes horror master and filmmaking icon John Carpenter for a fascinating conversation. Carpenter reflects on fighting studios to protect his vision, why he refused to change the ending of The Thing, and what it really means to be an auteur in Hollywood. He shares stories about growing up around the Nashville music scene, discovering filmmaking at age eight, composing his legendary film scores, and why Halloween works because “the less you know about Michael Myers, the scarier he becomes.” Along the way, Billy and John debate the scariest movie ever made, swap stories about professional wrestling, classic directors like Howard Hawks and John Ford, the collapse of the studio system, AI’s impact on filmmaking, and why America sometimes feels like it’s living inside one of Carpenter’s dystopian movies. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Halloween is designed to make you jump and scream.

• 0:04Billy Corgan?

  That movie scared me off the scary movies for the rest of my life.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  The less you know about Michael Myers, the scarier, scarier he is to you.

• 0:13Billy Corgan?

  Having been on a few sets in my life, I don't know how you do it.

• 0:17Speaker 00

  The thing that I love the most about movies is when they're finished. They're done.

• 0:24Billy Corgan?

  John Carpenter, thank you very much for being here today.

• 0:26Speaker 00

  My pleasure.

• 0:31Billy Corgan?

  When I think of you, I think of the word auteur, which is, which is a word we use in America in the arts. But I don't think we really know what it means.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  No, no, we don't know what it means.

• 0:39Billy Corgan?

  How would you define auteur?

• 0:41Speaker 00

  Just somebody in control and that's a lot of people want to be in control. But when you're a movie director in the, in Hollywood, in the business, you want to maintain control because that's your movie. In fact, Sergio Leone was a famous director and he wanted control. And he made a movie called Once About a Time. What was it?

• 1:07Billy Corgan?

  In the West?

• 1:08Speaker 00

  No, that one is, that's one of the greatest movies ever made. The New York movie with Robert De Niro.

• 1:15Billy Corgan?

  Oh, okay. I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

• 1:16Speaker 00

  Anyway, the studio started cutting it. He said, it's no longer my film. So that's, that's what it is. It's, it's somebody who paints with movies.

• 1:27Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. So in, in doing my research on you, Howard Hawks came up. John Ford came up, Hitchcock too. All great auteurs.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:38Billy Corgan?

  That what, you know, sometimes in, we say something in interview and it becomes the truth. But are, are, are men like Hawks and Ford people you really looked up to from as directors? Or as people who are auteurs in the sense of being able to create and control their own world?

• 1:56Speaker 00

  When I, I went to film school at USC, like a lot of guys did, and I saw all their movies, all the classic Hollywood films. And these are the guys who stood out to me. They had a, they had a vision. This is what they wanted to do. This is them.

• 2:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13Speaker 00

  On the screen.

• 2:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  And I really responded to that.

• 2:17Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  I thought, that's something I want to do.

• 2:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Yeah, Hawks, um, uh, you know, atmosphere comes to mind for it, almost like a painter.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:27Billy Corgan?

  Like these beautiful painterly scenes that he would create. Um, but so I thought, what, what would you describe your, your vision?

• 2:36Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 2:38Billy Corgan?

  It's, it's, it's kind of a melange.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  I have no clue. I have no idea what my vision is. I just knew it.

• 2:44Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. But it certainly has a, has a personal stamp.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  It does? Oh, yeah.

• 2:49Billy Corgan?

  Do you feel, you feel that?

• 2:50Speaker 00

  Oh, hell, yeah.

• 2:51Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  And I fought my way with almost total success of having control of my own movies.

• 2:57Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 2:58Speaker 00

  A couple of times, no. And, uh, and for various reasons.

• 3:02Billy Corgan?

  Isn't it interesting that, that, uh, auteurs by and large drive great commerce, but they're, they're always the ones that are most at odds with the system that they're in?

• 3:12Speaker 00

  It's true. It's really true.

• 3:15Billy Corgan?

  When you entered that system, that Hollywood system, I know you kind of came in not, you know, you didn't come in full force. It, it took time to sort of gain your, I don't know, trust is the right word in that system. What did you, what were your first impressions of the music business that was there before you actually, I'm sorry, the music business?

• 3:32Speaker 00

  Music business.

• 3:33Billy Corgan?

  I'm talking my business.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 3:35Billy Corgan?

  What were your impressions of the movie business? Because obviously this, the studio system had long been sort of somewhat dismantled.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  Well, I will tell you about the music business. My father was a founding member of the Nashville Strings. And he played sessions down in Nashville.

• 3:51Billy Corgan?

  I even have Nashville Strings albums. Or am I crazy?

• 3:53Speaker 00

  And I would go with him when I was young and I saw Roy Orbison, Brenda Lee, and folks like that singing in, in studio.

• 4:02Billy Corgan?

  Is this RCA studio?

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think it was.

• 4:05Billy Corgan?

  B?

• 4:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:05Billy Corgan?

  The little one or the big one?

• 4:06Speaker 00

  I, I don't know.

• 4:08Billy Corgan?

  You know, we'd have been in the bigger one. It's almost like a big barn, if you remember.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  I, all I remember is looking at these strange people who are singing.

• 4:16Billy Corgan?

  What?

• 4:17Speaker 00

  Roy Orbison wore sunglasses.

• 4:19Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 4:20Speaker 00

  And he had a guy who sang harmony with him who wore sunglasses. I thought, what is going on here?

• 4:28Billy Corgan?

  It's like something out of your movie.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Well, hey.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  But the movie, the movie business, you want to talk about them?

• 4:34Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 00

  The movie business.

• 4:36Billy Corgan?

  I love the movie business, even though I know it's terrible business for many.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Well. You know, I came in late seventies with how I got in was you have to make money. It's, it's all the same stuff. It's all, if you make money, they love you. They think you're great. If you don't, you know.

• 4:55Billy Corgan?

  Get out.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Get out. So.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  It's, and it's never changed. It's never changed.

• 5:03Billy Corgan?

  But was, was there a particular?

• 5:05Speaker 00

  And it has changed. Sorry. I'm, I'm just, I'm babbling here. It has changed enormously in many ways, but the essential is exactly the same, which is what I'm describing.

• 5:16Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  You have to be a golden boy to really succeed.

• 5:21Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  Like Spielberg, he's a kind of the golden boy.

• 5:24Billy Corgan?

  Well, he was kind of anointed from the beginning.

• 5:26Speaker 00

  He was over universal. Yeah. But, uh, but the business itself has changed a great deal.

• 5:34Billy Corgan?

  Did you find that there was a particular ethos to the seventies version of the movie business or?

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, it was, uh, they were, they were, they started experimenting with the content of movies in the sixties and that went into the seventies. A lot of rebellious going on. Sorry.

• 5:52Billy Corgan?

  Well, easy, easy writer, easy writer was sort of the.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  That's correct.

• 5:55Billy Corgan?

  The watershed.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  That's correct, but, uh, you know, then it sort of went back and, uh, into traditional uh, stories and such, but.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  It it was uh it was filled with pirates who who loved young filmmakers to take advantage of them and take their money.

• 6:18Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  And that that's still true.

• 6:20Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:22Billy Corgan?

  Did you have a particular aspiration when you were going to film school? Like, I want to be, is it just to be a director or is it, is there, was there a vision involved?

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Director. I wanted to be a professional director. That's what I wanted to be. And I for since I was eight years old.

• 6:36Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  It was my dream and I got to live it.

• 6:39Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Dude, I got to live in the American dream.

• 6:42Billy Corgan?

  You did.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  And then when I slowed down, I got into music. Well, go figure.

• 6:48Billy Corgan?

  Well, that's, that's a mistake, you know.

• 6:50Speaker 00

  No, is it really?

• 6:51Billy Corgan?

  Once you get into music.

• 6:52Speaker 00

  Why?

• 6:53Billy Corgan?

  No, it's a joke. It's a, it's a.

• 6:55Speaker 00

  But let's talk about something that's really serious.

• 6:57Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  And that's wrestling.

• 6:58Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Uh, why the NB, NWA?

• 7:02Billy Corgan?

  Well, I caught the bug for professional wrestling as a child, but then I walked away as a teen and then I found myself in my late twenties drawn into the actual business, meaning what went on behind the curtain.

• 7:13Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 7:14Billy Corgan?

  The idea of tinkering behind the curtain to what actually showed up in the ring.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Really?

• 7:19Billy Corgan?

  Is very tempting to me.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  That's what you wanted to do?

• 7:21Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 7:23Billy Corgan?

  So I, I worked on the independent scene for a few years.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 7:27Billy Corgan?

  Uh, I don't know how much you know about the independent scene, but there's, you know.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Not, not much.

• 7:31Billy Corgan?

  There's hundreds and hundreds of satellite little companies.

• 7:34Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 7:34Billy Corgan?

  That run in towns all over America.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 7:37Billy Corgan?

  Where the, you know, weekend warriors get up and, and they, they hope to be the next Hulk Hogan or Rodney Piper, right?

• 7:43Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 7:44Billy Corgan?

  Um, and some actually do make it. They'd make it, you know, like almost like a band playing in the clubs.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  Who, who for instance?

• 7:49Billy Corgan?

  Well, one of the biggest stars in the world right now is CM Punk from Chicago.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 7:55Billy Corgan?

  Who literally started on the independent scene and worked his way up. And now he's one of the biggest stars in the history of wrestling.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  Huh? I didn't know that. I don't know him. I'm not familiar with him.

• 8:05Billy Corgan?

  But, but I'm saying he would be comparable to, uh, to a, a, a, a Rick Rude or.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I see.

• 8:12Billy Corgan?

  Even above that level. As a main event talent. Very unusual, kind of a one of a kind professional wrestler, very skilled, great talker, great professional wrestler.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Ah, wow.

• 8:23Billy Corgan?

  But he, but if you looked at him, you wouldn't necessarily assume, he doesn't sort of fit the classic role of professional wrestling, but he made his name on the independents.

• 8:32Speaker 00

  What's his finishing move?

• 8:34Billy Corgan?

  Uh, go to sleep. It's a, it's a, you, you got, you, you kind of got a guy on your shoulders, GTS, I think they call it. And then when you pull the guy off, you hit him with your knee when he's coming down and he takes the bump like that.

• 8:45Speaker 00

  I see, I see.

• 8:46Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. So, uh, I worked on the independent, kind of learned my ropes like a independent.

• 8:51Speaker 00

  Did you wrestle ever?

• 8:52Billy Corgan?

  No, sir. I, I got involved.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  I just wanted to ask.

• 8:54Billy Corgan?

  No, you can ask me whatever you want. Uh, I did get concussed once. That's an interesting

• 8:59Speaker 00

  Did you really?

• 8:59Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah. I took a guitar shot in the, uh, uh.

• 9:03Speaker 00

  Headshots are bad news.

• 9:04Billy Corgan?

  Remember the old brick cell phones? They were like that big.

• 9:07Speaker 00

  Bang?

• 9:08Billy Corgan?

  I took one of those in the back of the head. Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 9:12Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 00

  Did you see stars floating around?

• 9:14Billy Corgan?

  I, I saw the flash and the bang and.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, man.

• 9:18Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. And then an hour later I was passing out my soup like this.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:23Billy Corgan?

  So I did that and then I ended up working for the second biggest company in America at the time, which was called TNA.

• 9:28Speaker 00

  I know TNA. I know who they are.

• 9:30Billy Corgan?

  Worked in the front office, was part of the booking committee, started producing segments in the corner with the town at 10 a.m. when they were grumpy and they didn't want to talk.

• 9:37Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 9:38Billy Corgan?

  So I learned how to produce television, caught the bug, had a little bit of success and was kind of held down by some of the people above me.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  Jealous of them?

• 9:47Billy Corgan?

  It's, it's, it's, it's, uh, like all the arts, it's a, it's always a, enmity is a, is a, is rife.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is.

• 9:55Billy Corgan?

  And, uh.

• 9:55Speaker 00

  Yes, it is.

• 9:56Billy Corgan?

  At some point I ended up running the company, however, briefly. And so when I got it, I thought, great, I'm done with professional wrestling, to hell with all you people. And about a month later, somebody called me and said, the NWA's for sale. Do you want it?

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Wow. Wow. See, that's a storied, uh, franchise. Blue Thes, that comes to mind. He was a, he used to call it a hooker, uh, somebody who could break your leg.

• 10:20Billy Corgan?

  But you know why they, but you know why they had the hookers?

• 10:23Speaker 00

  Why? Why?

• 10:24Billy Corgan?

  Okay. So if you were a travel, if you were a traveling champ.

• 10:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:28Billy Corgan?

  John Carpenter's the traveling champ. You're the, you're the NWA champion of the

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:32Billy Corgan?

  You're going into Abilene, Texas. Okay, and you're gonna wrestle one of the funks. Okay. How do you know one of the funks isn't gonna go into business for themselves? And decide to pin you legit in the ring?

• 10:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:46Billy Corgan?

  And now you're no longer the end of the ring champ.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  Oh, you never know this.

• 10:48Billy Corgan?

  So you have to be able to protect yourself.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Well, that's true.

• 10:52Billy Corgan?

  So in the 50s, 60s versions, the guys who were shooters like Fez, like Vern Gagne.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  He was, I know that.

• 10:59Billy Corgan?

  They could protect themselves.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Protect.

• 11:01Billy Corgan?

  I have a fantastic story for you if you wanna hear it about Vern Gagne.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  Really? Yes.

• 11:05Billy Corgan?

  So Vern Gagne, uh, in the 50s when wrestling was on television, mostly coming out of Chicago.

• 11:13Speaker 00

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 11:14Billy Corgan?

  Okay. The national product in the 50s was coming out of Chicago.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Shut down, huh?

• 11:18Billy Corgan?

  So, so, uh, people started figuring out that wrestling wasn't real. Right? Right?

• 11:25Speaker 00

  It's real as to these people. That's their, their damage for life.

• 11:30Billy Corgan?

  Well, you're talking, you're talking to a lifer over here.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  They put their bodies out for this, this art form.

• 11:36Billy Corgan?

  You understand, but here's the thing. So, so the fans start getting restless because they, they're not sure they're watching an authentic product. So the NWA starts recruiting NCAA wrestlers with pedigrees who are real shooters.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  So like who?

• 11:51Billy Corgan?

  Vern Gagne.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  Him.

• 11:52Billy Corgan?

  So they bring Vern into Chicago. Okay, it's his first day in Chicago. And they said, we, we have a gimmick for you. You're gonna come down from the ceiling in a spaceship.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  Oh dear.

• 12:03Billy Corgan?

  And be a space alien.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 12:05Billy Corgan?

  And Vern said, that's not gonna happen.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 12:08Billy Corgan?

  Okay, I'm gonna go down to the wrestling ring. You send as many people as you want, and I will beat them legitimately in the ring.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  There you go. What's a shooter? Or a hooker, whatever you want.

• 12:19Billy Corgan?

  Cause see, in the business, and I think you'd respect this, we know who the real shooters are.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:24Billy Corgan?

  There might be guys and girls who are great at their job. But we know who the real badasses are.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:30Billy Corgan?

  And those are the ones that people are really.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you don't want to fool them because they'll just take you right out.

• 12:36Billy Corgan?

  In front of the world.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  I love this conversation. Let me get my business out of the way here.

• 12:41Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  I had a dream, a really strange dream, oh, a few years ago, and I have a band and with my son and godson, so I talked to them about it and I said, let's do an album based on this dream. So I wrote the dream out and then we recorded music to the dream. And then my wife owns a comic book company, so she's doing a graphic novel of my dream. So we will release, day in day, an album and a graphic novel.

• 13:17Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Of my dream. Come on now, come on.

• 13:22Billy Corgan?

  That's cool.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  I'm 78 years old and I get this to happen. This is fabulous.

• 13:26Billy Corgan?

  What's the name of the?

• 13:27Speaker 00

  Cathedral.

• 13:28Billy Corgan?

  Cathedral.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  Cathedral.

• 13:30Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  And I'm very proud of it and working on others. So that I have to get that out. You're a musician, you know.

• 13:40Billy Corgan?

  Love it.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  The love of running around pimping, pimping your next album.

• 13:43Billy Corgan?

  I have bought some of your, um.

• 13:45Speaker 00

  Lost.

• 13:46Billy Corgan?

  Lost themes.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  Good for you.

• 13:48Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  Good for you.

• 13:49Billy Corgan?

  I bought them on vinyl.

• 13:50Speaker 00

  I will take pre-orders for Cathedral if you want to put out some cash here. No? Okay. I don't know.

• 13:58Speaker 02

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• 14:29Speaker 00

  Anyway, let's get back to wrestling. I've done my job.

• 14:31Billy Corgan?

  Okay, back to wrestling with the film business.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  I, the last guy I saw was Brett the Hitman Hart.

• 14:40Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  And, and what a nice human being.

• 14:43Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, very smart guy.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  Uh, and he was, you know, he looked up to Roddy Piper a great deal. And Roddy had brain damage, it's bad.

• 14:55Speaker 00

  Bad. He could, could barely show up.

• 14:59Billy Corgan?

  Hmm.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  And, uh, poor guy.

• 15:02Billy Corgan?

  Well, that's the CTE from all the, all the head trauma.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  Well, you know it. And, and they.

• 15:06Billy Corgan?

  And don't forget Rod used to do the thing where he would legit bust beer bottles against.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  I do know this.

• 15:12Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 15:12Speaker 00

  And, uh, in, in the fifties and sixties, they didn't play nice. They didn't do like they do today.

• 15:19Billy Corgan?

  No, it was, it was certainly a more rough and tumble business.

• 15:23Speaker 00

  Man, some of that stuff was bad.

• 15:25Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 15:26Speaker 00

  So you seem to just accept that. And I, I have a tough time accepting.

• 15:30Billy Corgan?

  No, we, we try to run as safe a product as we can.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:34Billy Corgan?

  We.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  You say that. You sound like a businessman.

• 15:37Billy Corgan?

  No, no, no. I, I don't mean it that way. There's no, there's no getting around the danger.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  I know.

• 15:43Billy Corgan?

  There's no getting around the danger. I mean, you've worked with professional stunt people.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  I know.

• 15:46Billy Corgan?

  There's just a point where it's like, what they do is incredibly dangerous. What?

• 15:50Speaker 00

  But, but the difference is in, in the movie business, they're in charge. I'd say, look, the scene involves, you need to fall from up there down here. And they rig it and they do it. And they might come and say, you know what? This is dangerous this way. Let me do it this way. In wrestling, the, the promoter is the person, is the man. You get out there and.

• 16:11Billy Corgan?

  But we don't work that way.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  You don't work that way.

• 16:14Billy Corgan?

  No, I don't want anyone doing anything they don't feel comfortable doing. Not at all.

• 16:17Speaker 00

  Chair shots?

• 16:19Billy Corgan?

  Don't do them to the head.

• 16:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. Boy.

• 16:22Billy Corgan?

  We don't do unprotected chair shots.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  You don't do that.

• 16:24Billy Corgan?

  So, so all chair shots need to be cleared by me. And they, if they have, are they going anywhere near the head? They need to be protected.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  Hey, what happens if that all goes, uh, you know, awry as things do in wrestling matches?

• 16:36Billy Corgan?

  Well, then you have, then you have a problem.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  And what do you do about that? What do you find somebody? And here's the poor guy who has a concussion. And you know what that's like?

• 16:43Billy Corgan?

  Yes, sir. Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  I'm sorry. Am I jumping on you too much?

• 16:47Billy Corgan?

  No, no, not at all. No, I guess what you have to understand is.

• 16:52Billy Corgan?

  Even though I'm the boss, and even though I write the shows and produce the shows out of my own pocket.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:58Billy Corgan?

  The real relationship is between the wrestlers themselves.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, it has to be.

• 17:03Billy Corgan?

  And so they're a self-correcting body.

• 17:07Billy Corgan?

  So what you learn as a promoter is you have to let them sort those issues out themselves.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  That's pretty smart.

• 17:13Billy Corgan?

  That's, that's the only thing you can do.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  Pretty smart.

• 17:17Billy Corgan?

  Because there has to be a level of professional courtesy and, and, and relatability between the talent, because what they're doing is so dangerous. This way, when people come up to you on the street and say, oh, wrestling's fake, it's like, try it.

• 17:29Speaker 00

  You know it. Exactly. But.

• 17:32Billy Corgan?

  I've seen, I've seen guys blow their knees out on the most simple move in the world. Nothing. You know, you wouldn't even, you wouldn't even think twice watching it on television.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  Some of those holes, I don't know, the legit holes are, boy, they could cripple you if they are put on right.

• 17:48Billy Corgan?

  But that's why, see, that's why you have the shooters.

• 17:50Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 17:51Billy Corgan?

  Can't get anything over on them.

• 17:53Speaker 00

  Anyway, okay.

• 17:54Billy Corgan?

  Back to you.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  Oh, dear.

• 17:57Billy Corgan?

  Um, I saw something where you talked about how you fell in love with the, the movie business.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:02Billy Corgan?

  Was that a good thing or a bad thing?

• 18:04Speaker 00

  No, it's, well, I fell in love with directing.

• 18:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  I fell in love with movies. That's my muse is, is, is movies, is cinema.

• 18:12Billy Corgan?

  Having been on a few sets in my life, I don't know how you do it because it's the pace of shooting a major motion picture is so slow.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  As opposed to, sorry.

• 18:23Billy Corgan?

  Well, opposed to a lot of other things. I mean.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  Like what?

• 18:26Billy Corgan?

  In order to, I don't know, I'm, you tell me, but in order to realize your vision, which is, which is holistic as an auteur, that's a lot of patience. That's a lot of time.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  That's correct. It is. And you have to, it goes from script to pre-production, to production, to editing in the end, to the music on the film.

• 18:44Billy Corgan?

  And in your case, doing the music.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  All of that, all of that. You have to have patience and you have to remember that vision. See, that's the thing. Don't lose track of it.

• 18:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Speaker 00

  Here we are on a set, you know, we've got people who are putting up lights and it's taking a little time. Don't forget what we're doing. Go back in your head to that, what do you need here in this scene?

• 19:07Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  You know?

• 19:08Billy Corgan?

  So is the satisfaction for you that you've been able to build your own world? World's too large a word, but you know what I'm saying is, is the satisfaction when you sit back and it's done, you think, okay, that's why I did it. Because I don't know what that feels like. I know what it feels like for an album.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  What did it feel like?

• 19:26Billy Corgan?

  It's it's as close to playing God as I've ever felt.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  There you go. It is. Same thing. Same exact thing. It's done. Oh, great. The thing that I love the most about movies is when they're finished. They're done. I don't have to think about them anymore. I don't have to look at them. I can see my mistakes. I look occasionally a movie of mine will be on and I'll watch it and I'll say, what was I thinking? What is that? That's too slow. And I'll start and it's horrible. So.

• 19:56Billy Corgan?

  I just it occurred to me just in the moment. I saw a line once where Frank Capra was talking. He said, in order to film reality, have to it has to be faster on the screen. Did you find that as well?

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, yeah, he's right about that. He's a strange character. I'm not sure we should trust everything he says. But he kind of waxes.

• 20:16Billy Corgan?

  Well, he he was one of those ones who kind of rewrote his.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Oh.

• 20:20Billy Corgan?

  It's history in reverse.

• 20:21Speaker 00

  Huge. Yeah.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  You have to play everything a little faster.

• 20:26Billy Corgan?

  Right?

• 20:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do. You have to speed it up. And actors don't like you telling them that.

• 20:31Billy Corgan?

  Oh, that's funny.

• 20:32Speaker 00

  They want to. Well, they're they're coming in just like wrestlers and they've got their own thing. Don't tell me what to do. Some of them are really.

• 20:40Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Tough. Anyway, go ahead.

• 20:42Billy Corgan?

  When uh, when you looked at the uh, whatever was the system in place in the in the 1970s in America.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 20:49Billy Corgan?

  Did because because you had a particular vision, did you think I I need to figure out how to work with these people? I'm just going to figure out how to wrestle enough control so I could get my my way.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  Well, that's a good question. Well, I I never see in my case, I started with independent filmmaking was that nobody else was in charge but me. So that was perfect for my first two films. Then my third film I had, I told whoever I was working for. I want here's what I want for my payment. I want complete creative control and my name above the title. You don't have to pay me because I had was wanted to work my name and get a name. I want to work my way in. But after that, when you're working for a studio, oh, hey, oh, I made a movie called The Thing. And it had this. Ambiguous ending.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  And the stu- the people hate ambiguity.

• 21:46Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  Audiences and studios especially. So they came and it was like a revolving door of executives coming in and trying to talk me out of that ending. And I just wouldn't budge.

• 21:59Billy Corgan?

  So you won?

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Well, I won, but you know, they they fired me from a job and I was in the wilderness, but I won.

• 22:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 22:08Speaker 00

  And so that was the price of of my art, if you want to use that word.

• 22:15Billy Corgan?

  Well, if it's any small satisfaction, one of the members of my band believes The Thing is the greatest movie ever.

• 22:22Speaker 00

  That's very nice. He's a wonderful human being.

• 22:24Billy Corgan?

  I will let I will let him know.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  Wonderful human beings.

• 22:27Billy Corgan?

  He said that. And it was one of those things where we were talking about movies one day, sitting around the band campfire.

• 22:31Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 22:32Billy Corgan?

  And he said the he said thinks The Thing is the movie.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  And I thought I thought it was pretty good. I did.

• 22:39Billy Corgan?

  I thought it was.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  It was pretty good. Anyway.

• 22:43Billy Corgan?

  When you were when you were working your way up through that system doing independent, did you ever believe that you get a true big budget? Because you you made your way by sort of figuring out how to make things work for small budgets.

• 22:53Speaker 00

  Uh huh. Yeah.

• 22:54Billy Corgan?

  Did you ever figure? Did you get? Did you guesstimate that you'd reach a point where you would get an actual?

• 22:59Speaker 00

  I never thought about it. I thought, let's get this thing done. Maybe somebody will see it and appreciate who's behind the camera. Well, let's get this done. I wasn't thinking about. I had no long-term planning, except that I'm going to be a director, you know, it's kind of this childish thing, I guess.

• 23:19Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Because Halloween was with 300 grand? Does that sound right?

• 23:23Speaker 00

  Two.

• 23:24Billy Corgan?

  200 grand?

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Two 20. I tell we had to pay extra for non-pleasantries.

• 23:28Billy Corgan?

  And how many shoot days generally?

• 23:30Speaker 00

  20.

• 23:31Billy Corgan?

  20 shoot days?

• 23:31Speaker 00

  20 was maybe, yeah, 20.

• 23:34Billy Corgan?

  Oh, you can't even make a music video for 20 days.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Sure you can. Sure you can. You just have to. You have to plan it out, you know, figure it out ahead of time. Now, when you guys would make a music video, how long would it take?

• 23:49Billy Corgan?

  Uh, one to three days.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  And I bet those are intense days, aren't they?

• 23:56Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, you just wonder about all the money you're spending.

• 23:58Speaker 00

  I know.

• 23:59Billy Corgan?

  Because you know, if you shoot in LA, you know, you gotta pay for the cop that's standing there eating the donut.

• 24:03Speaker 00

  Well, that's true, but you know, it's a big city. Well, we never, we never really, we skirted around those issues when you're low budget, you have to.

• 24:13Billy Corgan?

  So, so I, I don't like scary movies and I blame you because.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  I'm sorry.

• 24:17Billy Corgan?

  No, I saw Halloween when I was about 11 years old and.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  Well, you're a child, you shouldn't be watching those kind of movies.

• 24:23Billy Corgan?

  Okay, but I'm saying that, that, that movie scared me off of scary movies for the rest of my life.

• 24:28Speaker 00

  Well, I'm sorry, but you know.

• 24:30Billy Corgan?

  But I mean, as a.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Who let you see that at 11? Was it your parents?

• 24:34Billy Corgan?

  Well, if you want to get in my history as most years.

• 24:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, why would, why would a young 11 year old be allowed to see an R rated movie?

• 24:43Billy Corgan?

  I have no idea.

• 24:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 24:45Billy Corgan?

  But all I can tell you is it scared the bejesus out of me.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Then it worked, it funny.

• 24:49Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. But um, I still, to this day, and not that I'm a huge constrictor, I still think that's the scariest movie ever made.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  Exorcist, telling you.

• 24:58Billy Corgan?

  Really?

• 24:58Speaker 00

  I think so. I think so.

• 25:00Billy Corgan?

  You want to debate that?

• 25:01Speaker 00

  Uh, well.

• 25:02Billy Corgan?

  So tell me why you think Exorcist is scary.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  Oh my God, what that little girl turns into and then.

• 25:08Billy Corgan?

  Because Linda Blair sat in that exact chair.

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:11Billy Corgan?

  And we.

• 25:11Speaker 00

  I met Linda last year, last year. She's a really terrific person. Anyway, uh, it's what she said. You're walking down that hallway towards the door. You don't know what's behind there, but it's evil. Behind there. And you know, and the devil has been a character in our. Humans history for a long time, a version of the devil, pure evil. And possessing you and little girl has, uh. And disfigured and horror, she's turned into a monster.

• 25:42Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 25:43Speaker 00

  Oh, that's pretty tough stuff. And it's tough stuff in that movie. I was very impressed with it.

• 25:49Billy Corgan?

  It is a great movie.

• 25:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I, I, I'm thinking that may be the scariest. But Halloween is designed to make you. Jump and scream.

• 25:59Billy Corgan?

  Well, see, here's why it was scary to me because we were latchkey kids. So we were home alone. We were home alone a lot.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 26:06Billy Corgan?

  So the idea of terror.

• 26:08Speaker 00

  I say, I say.

• 26:09Billy Corgan?

  Coming in from the outside in a way that you cannot navigate the terror. And in my particular circumstance, I was home alone with two younger children overnight, oftentimes with no adult in the house.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Well, now.

• 26:24Billy Corgan?

  So I re.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  How much younger than you?

• 26:27Billy Corgan?

  What's that?

• 26:27Speaker 00

  How much younger?

• 26:29Billy Corgan?

  Uh, when I would have been about 10 and I would have been with a eight year old and a baby.

• 26:35Billy Corgan?

  So the idea.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  Well, dude, I can't, I can't help you there. I can't.

• 26:38Billy Corgan?

  But I think that's, I think that's why it resonated so deeply.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  I hear you.

• 26:41Billy Corgan?

  This idea that if, if this awful thing walks through the door, there's nothing you can do.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  But I didn't design my movie for, with you in mind because I would have cautioned you, you know, this is all make believe. It's not real. It won't happen to you.

• 26:57Billy Corgan?

  I love, yeah, I saw a quote where you were talking, they were asking you about, did you know you were making it a classic? And you said, all I saw was the rubber knife.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, God, that thing, that thing. People ask me, well, you didn't show anything because we couldn't. It was rubber.

• 27:18Billy Corgan?

  Can you just talk a little bit? You've talked about it before, but I thought it was fascinating. When you talk about the, the character of Michael Myers, this idea of the blank face and the audience projecting onto that. Can you just talk about that a little bit?

• 27:29Speaker 00

  He, he is a character who has no, really no past. He is nothing. He's neither human nor supernatural. He's both.

• 27:40Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  And we don't know. And that's the thing that is disturbing. We just don't know what it is that drives him. So he's blank.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  And he's un- kinda unkillable, kinda, but maybe he's not. So it's that uh balance between those things that made him really spooky. So the less you know about Michael Myers, the scariest, scarier he is to you.

• 28:12Billy Corgan?

  This, the scene that blew my mind as a kid was, I think it's Jamie Lee Curtis is sort of panting in foreground and he's in the back.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, it's up.

• 28:20Billy Corgan?

  It's the Undertaker spot.

• 28:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 28:22Billy Corgan?

  Which Undertaker, I think stole from Michael Myers.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  Of course it is. I want my residual for that.

• 28:27Billy Corgan?

  The ultimate co- it's the ultimate compliment.

• 28:29Speaker 00

  It is, yeah. But that's, that's the idea. Uh, the less you know, the scarier he is, and he's relentless. You can't stop him.

• 28:39Billy Corgan?

  It still scares me thinking about it.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  Well, why? Come on.

• 28:42Billy Corgan?

  No, it's scary. I'm serious.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  Okay, thank you. That's good.

• 28:45Billy Corgan?

  Yes. Um.

• 28:49Billy Corgan?

  You've got a lot of cred with the music community because of your scores.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  Really?

• 28:54Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, I think, I think, I think your stature in the music community has grown over time as people really appreciate.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  Really?

• 28:59Billy Corgan?

  They see you as a pioneering synth guy.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, that, I thought when I first heard synths, I thought, hey, you can sound like something big.

• 29:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 00

  With keyboards.

• 29:10Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  You know what I'm saying? You can play violin and whatever. So that's what, that's.

• 29:15Billy Corgan?

  But you had a natural knack for it, I was, I may.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't, oh, I played bass in a rock and roll band when I was in.

• 29:21Billy Corgan?

  Yes. So you at least had some musical theory behind what you were doing.

• 29:24Speaker 00

  My dad was a music teacher.

• 29:25Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  And I knew music.

• 29:28Billy Corgan?

  Bowling Green?

• 29:29Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 29:30Billy Corgan?

  You ever hear the Everly Brothers song?

• 29:31Speaker 00

  I have, and it's not true.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  It's just not true. I wish it was. I wish.

• 29:39Billy Corgan?

  Did you ever meet that Everly Brothers?

• 29:40Speaker 00

  I did not, no. No, no. But um, I can't remember what we were talking about.

• 29:46Billy Corgan?

  We're all over the place today.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  That's okay.

• 29:48Billy Corgan?

  We're talking about synths. I love vintage synths, so that's that's.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  You do, huh?

• 29:53Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:54Speaker 00

  Everybody does. What is it? You like the Prophet?

• 29:57Billy Corgan?

  I have a Prophet X.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  I bet you do.

• 30:00Billy Corgan?

  Which you know is the

• 30:00Speaker 00

  I know.

• 30:01Billy Corgan?

  The double.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  I know.

• 30:02Billy Corgan?

  Um, I even have a Synthy, uh, 100, if you know what that is.

• 30:06Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Really?

• 30:08Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. I'm one of those. Yeah.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  Well, see, I, um, I worked with the, um, the synthesizer teacher at USC. It was a really great guy and he owned like a little studio and they're all tube synths. So he had to turn them, tune them up.

• 30:24Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah. And tune probably every five minutes. Yeah.

• 30:27Speaker 00

  And, uh,

• 30:28Billy Corgan?

  This would have been modular stuff.

• 30:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. That's exactly.

• 30:31Billy Corgan?

  Was it Moog or?

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Some, some were. And, uh, so I would say to him, you know, look, I need, uh, I need a bass sounding thing. I need a string sounding thing. He had a piano there that I would play. So that, that was what it was. It was simple. I have medium chops. My, I don't have that good. My, my son has great chops. I don't. So I have to hide

• 30:59Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  with the sounds.

• 31:01Billy Corgan?

  Have you ever heard the stuff where Bob Moog is sort of explaining his philosophy on why people, uh, are attracted to synthesize?

• 31:08Speaker 00

  No. What did you say?

• 31:09Billy Corgan?

  He, he believed, uh, in essence, in the spiritual component of synthesizers, that, that something in the electricity moving through the wires has a, has a spiritual component. Is that too, is that too woo woo for you?

• 31:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is. That's ridiculous.

• 31:25Billy Corgan?

  Well, as, as someone, okay, but I, I guess what I'm argument is, it's not an argument, but, but, uh, there's something about synthesizer technology. Stockhausen, who is the pioneering.

• 31:35Speaker 00

  I know Stockhausen had some great ideas.

• 31:38Billy Corgan?

  But he, his, his, Stockhausen's point about synthesizers was you cannot have sound in natural environments without the environment affecting the sound. Synthesis allows you the only way to hear sound without the environment affecting sound.

• 31:53Speaker 00

  Stockhausen had a piece of music he wrote, which was designed for four or five cellos being held by helicopters.

• 32:03Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  Now, come on. That's such horseshit. Come on.

• 32:09Billy Corgan?

  But we're still talking about Stockhausen.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  I know. It's, it's true. It's true.

• 32:14Billy Corgan?

  Do you ever hear the one where it's just people singing in weird rotation?

• 32:17Speaker 00

  No, I haven't.

• 32:18Billy Corgan?

  That one?

• 32:19Speaker 00

  I

• 32:21Billy Corgan?

  That one, that one I'll set your hair.

• 32:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I bet.

• 32:26Billy Corgan?

  When you had, when you had success and now, like you said, you're making people money and you're, and you're now a darling or a genius.

• 32:34Speaker 00

  For 10 seconds.

• 32:35Billy Corgan?

  For 10 seconds, sure.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  And then you're, then you're a bum and then you work your way back into.

• 32:41Billy Corgan?

  But, but just to freeze the frame for a second.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  All right.

• 32:44Billy Corgan?

  When you're in that golden moment, when the phone is ringing and they're throwing scripts at you and they.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  I see, yeah.

• 32:50Billy Corgan?

  I mean, I can relate in theory.

• 32:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:55Billy Corgan?

  What, did you, did you, do you think, great, now I can really do what I want to do?

• 33:00Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, it was very, it was worrisome because

• 33:07Speaker 00

  I'm not sure this is what I want to do this way, not this way. Please just be cool, let me come up with the idea here.

• 33:15Billy Corgan?

  Oh, I see.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Let me work it through, I'll bring it to you.

• 33:20Billy Corgan?

  The Fog was the, sort of the, the next project after the success of Halloween.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  It was, I had to come up with something, so my partner and I, we came up with The Fog and

• 33:32Speaker 00

  I was a golden boy for a bit of the time there, but, you know, but then it began to creak because if you don't produce genius material all the time, you're an idiot.

• 33:43Billy Corgan?

  What, what, what do you think or what do you remember that they wanted you to do?

• 33:47Speaker 00

  Make money for them.

• 33:48Billy Corgan?

  But I mean, did they see you, like, okay, now you're going to be the new Spielberg, you know what I'm saying?

• 33:52Speaker 00

  Uh, it was always on my own, I was always the new John Carpenter, you know, a scary guy.

• 33:59Billy Corgan?

  But they, were they trying to push in any particular direction?

• 34:02Speaker 00

  Scary, scary makes money. And all of a sudden, at this juncture of 78, 79, a lot of scary movies began to be made. So they thought, oh, he knows what he's doing.

• 34:13Billy Corgan?

  Yeah, because Jaws was sort of around that time.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was a little earlier than that, but that's the idea.

• 34:18Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:19Billy Corgan?

  It's a blurry memory, my childhood.

• 34:21Speaker 00

  It's okay, and I scared you and I probably affected that memory.

• 34:26Billy Corgan?

  Well, you're probably to blame for something.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  I am, you can blame me right now.

• 34:32Billy Corgan?

  We'll go back to wrestling. It's safe. I wanted to talk to you because like a lot of people in my generation, which is Gen X, we grew up on Saturday morning.

• 34:44Billy Corgan?

  You know, they would show like Robbie the Robot, Tobor and.

• 34:48Speaker 00

  Oh, they did?

• 34:49Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. So I grew up on all those types of movies.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  Robbie was in one of my favorite, the movie that got me destined to direct Forbidden Planet.

• 34:59Billy Corgan?

  Right.

• 34:59Speaker 00

  You know that movie?

• 35:00Billy Corgan?

  Of course. Yeah. Great movie.

• 35:02Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I saw it eight years old.

• 35:05Billy Corgan?

  Just the colors of that movie.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  The story of it. Yeah.

• 35:09Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  Tobor. I remember Tobor.

• 35:12Billy Corgan?

  An early pioneering synthesizer soundtrack.

• 35:15Speaker 00

  Know it. And but they did it with like all sorts of strange ways. It wasn't a synth.

• 35:21Billy Corgan?

  It's probably using oscillators.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  That's exactly what they did.

• 35:24Billy Corgan?

  They probably just had the old.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  You know. Oh, the Barons, BB and Louis Barron. They were fabulous. I still, I have that soundtrack. I listen to it occasionally.

• 35:37Billy Corgan?

  It's cool.

• 35:37Speaker 00

  Just to see what they were doing.

• 35:39Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. So what I'm after is it's, when I see it, when I see it associated with you, it seems to diminish your work because when people call some of your work exploitation or exploitation films, you know what I'm saying? It's a particular word that's thrown around with a lot of 70s movies.

• 35:59Speaker 00

  I hear you. Well, there was, look, we showed PJ Soul's breasts because it was an exploitation film at the time. And that's fine with, I love exploitation films. What's wrong with them? Because they are designed to make, to appeal to a certain audience? No, it's fine. Horror movies came from there. That's fine. What's wrong with all that?

• 36:25Billy Corgan?

  But the connective tissue, if you see it between like, let's call it the 50s kind of sci-fi, post-nuclear, 50 foot woman. Right?

• 36:36Speaker 00

  That's 50s. Yeah. Oh, boy.

• 36:38Billy Corgan?

  I'm saying there's a resonant vibe there with your work. But I always see it as a sort of a form of joy. Like, like, like, let's have, like, here's the premise.

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Let's have fun.

• 36:49Billy Corgan?

  Let's have fun.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 36:50Billy Corgan?

  And even Halloween.

• 36:53Billy Corgan?

  So it scared the bejesus out of me. It there's, there's an element of fun and mirth in the whole thing.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Well, good. I'm glad. Um, but I never thought I see, uh, critics think that horror is like pornography down there and people who do that are ugly people, you see.

• 37:12Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  But now highbrow movies are what you should aspire to. And I had all my teachers, some of my teachers in, in high school and college back in Bowling Green, saw Halloween and said, oh gosh, you know, why doesn't he do something?

• 37:29Billy Corgan?

  Oh, I see.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  What, you know, up here, not down there. So and a lot of critics believe that. They believe that, uh, I remember when Stephen King got some award. They thought, well, no, no, no, no, he can't be because he's a, he's a horror writer.

• 37:46Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  You see, they type you.

• 37:49Billy Corgan?

  Yes.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  And that's, you know, it's the way it is.

• 37:52Billy Corgan?

  But do you, just last thing on the, on the exploitation, kind of the post-nuclear thing. Do you, is there a particular thread there with your generation because of the times that you

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Huge.

• 38:03Billy Corgan?

  guys grew up in?

• 38:04Speaker 00

  Huge. My general, I came kind of up in the 50s.

• 38:10Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  I was born in 48, so it was right after the, I was always lived with the, with the atomic war as a potential over my head. I thought about it a lot, too.

• 38:20Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  Like at the end of everything.

• 38:22Billy Corgan?

  I think where I resonate personally with, with your work is you're almost the exact age as, as my parents. No, but I, what I mean by that is I grew up in a household.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  Yes. Okay. I accept that. I accept the role.

• 38:36Billy Corgan?

  Thank you.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  And you must not go to see Halloween at 11.

• 38:41Billy Corgan?

  Well, they let me.

• 38:44Billy Corgan?

  But it's the idea that there's a particular, every generation has its obsessions.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 38:50Billy Corgan?

  It's kind of, uh, you know, Picasso painted the Madonna image 42 times.

• 38:53Speaker 00

  I know, I know.

• 38:54Billy Corgan?

  So, you know.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  Badly, 42 times.

• 38:58Billy Corgan?

  Not a Picasso fan?

• 39:03Billy Corgan?

  You should have gotten him a synthesizer.

• 39:04Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 39:05Billy Corgan?

  Maybe things would have been different. Um.

• 39:10Billy Corgan?

  I love Escape from New York and we don't have to go into all the same stories, but, but it does strike me that the movie is oddly prescient because we are kind of living in Escape from New York now in many major cities.

• 39:21Speaker 00

  They live. They live was the movie I made about the aliens.

• 39:27Billy Corgan?

  Well, that too, right?

• 39:28Speaker 00

  That, well, that's happened. That's, it's a documentary.

• 39:31Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  And it's just my political background sneaking into a movie. I hate that. I don't like political movies. I made one and I'm ashamed now.

• 39:42Billy Corgan?

  Sure, but let's call it just common dystopia.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 39:46Billy Corgan?

  I mean, you must see, you must chuckle sometimes when we look at the daily obsession of the American public.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  What do you think about current reality in America?

• 39:55Billy Corgan?

  What do I think?

• 39:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:56Billy Corgan?

  I think it's a horror show.

• 39:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It is the dystopia that, that we should all fear.

• 40:05Billy Corgan?

  I mean, and

• 40:05Speaker 00

  It's unreal.

• 40:06Billy Corgan?

  Kurt Russell's trying to get away.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 40:09Billy Corgan?

  For a reason.

• 40:09Speaker 00

  Well, he doesn't give a about all that, but they use him and they're nefarious. Well, now, oi, oi, and what I can't believe, what I can't understand is why some Americans are for this. What, what? But I'm just an old man crying in the darkness, you know, no one listens.

• 40:32Billy Corgan?

  Well, we seem to have entered

• 40:34Speaker 00

  Old man crying in the darkness. No, nevermind.

• 40:36Billy Corgan?

  But we seem to have entered, I'll give you like a quick thing. A friend of mine was a professional photographer in Chicago. He was actually in the room during the famous Kennedy Nixon

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Debate.

• 40:50Billy Corgan?

  Debate that emanated out of Chicago.

• 40:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think Nixon won?

• 40:54Billy Corgan?

  Well, what he said was, he had no perception in the moment of how it was going to play over television.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 41:02Billy Corgan?

  His perception in the moment was completely different than the telegenic.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 41:06Billy Corgan?

  And it's oftentimes cited as this kind of watershed moment.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Sure, sure.

• 41:09Billy Corgan?

  US politics turns into the telegenic era.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 41:12Billy Corgan?

  So I don't know what era this is going to ultimately be called. It's certainly not going to be called the Gilded Age, but.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  BJ's 42% off thank you celebration is how we say thanks for 42 years. Get 42% off ground beef, chicken drumsticks, potatoes and more through October 31st at BJ's Wholesale Club. Terms apply. Visit BJ's.com for details. Not a member? Join today.

• 41:34Billy Corgan?

  The point I'm trying to make is.

• 41:37Billy Corgan?

  We're into like a level of farce and idiocracy that's almost shocking, but somehow we're in it.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  Did you see that movie Idiocracy?

• 41:46Billy Corgan?

  Yes, sir.

• 41:47Speaker 00

  Oh, it's fabulous.

• 41:48Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 41:49Speaker 00

  It's fabulous.

• 41:49Billy Corgan?

  Was it Mike Judge? Mike Judge from?

• 41:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. Fabulous. No one talks about that. I love that.

• 41:54Billy Corgan?

  That might be the ultimate.

• 41:56Speaker 00

  It's true. It's all true.

• 41:58Billy Corgan?

  More so than Escape from New York.

• 41:59Speaker 00

  I think so.

• 42:00Billy Corgan?

  Um, I had to ask you because I'm a huge Lee Van Cleef fan.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Lee.

• 42:05Billy Corgan?

  That must have been.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  Lee.

• 42:07Billy Corgan?

  I'm, this is where I envy your, your chair because.

• 42:10Speaker 00

  He was an unusual person. He was an unusual guy. He had, I would, he, he invited me over to his place to have dinner. His wife couldn't cook a lick.

• 42:22Speaker 00

  And it was just awful, but he had all these loaded guns on the wall. But he was very, he said, now they are loaded. I want to just warn you, but he let me pick them up and manipulate them and. Lee, uh, he, he fell, his horse fell on his leg. And he never got it attended to by doctors. So walking was tough for him.

• 42:51Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 42:52Speaker 00

  And there was a scene where we were in St. Louis and he had to walk down the street with, with his men. And his wife is next to me saying, I'm watching, watching to see if Lee can make it.

• 43:05Speaker 00

  Cause he can't walk. But, but he, he projects absolute strength. I mean, he, he knows how to act. He knows how to steal a scene. I liked Lee a lot. He was a cool guy.

• 43:17Billy Corgan?

  What a cool.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  I know.

• 43:19Billy Corgan?

  Maybe the coolest.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  But his wife couldn't cook, dude. I mean, going over there.

• 43:24Billy Corgan?

  She must've been beautiful. He must've had a beautiful wife.

• 43:26Speaker 00

  She, she was wonderful, but.

• 43:30Speaker 00

  You know.

• 43:31Billy Corgan?

  Do you ever see that, uh, Sabata, that movie Sabata?

• 43:33Speaker 00

  Yes. Oh, yeah.

• 43:34Billy Corgan?

  Like he carries the movie literally on charisma.

• 43:37Speaker 00

  Well, he shows up in a movie and he steals the scene.

• 43:40Billy Corgan?

  Unbelievable.

• 43:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because of how he looks and how he acts and he's got it.

• 43:46Billy Corgan?

  What is the, it's the, you know, the famous, you brought up the director, the Italian director, the famous.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Sergio Leone.

• 43:54Billy Corgan?

  You got Eastwood, Lee Van Cleef, and who was the other actor? I can't think of his name.

• 43:58Speaker 00

  Eli Wallach. That was a great movie. However, Once Upon a Time in the West is maybe the greatest Western. It's, it's an opera.

• 44:08Billy Corgan?

  But did Leone do that movie?

• 44:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:10Billy Corgan?

  Okay.

• 44:11Speaker 00

  He had Charles Bronson, Henry Fonda, Claudia Cardinelli. Oh, my God. Claudia's left us now, unfortunately.

• 44:21Billy Corgan?

  God bless her.

• 44:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know.

• 44:22Billy Corgan?

  What a beauty.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  I know.

• 44:23Billy Corgan?

  Was Fellini, Fellini saw that too, right?

• 44:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Early.

• 44:27Billy Corgan?

  God bless.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  You know how Fellini directed?

• 44:30Billy Corgan?

  I do not know.

• 44:30Speaker 00

  He had actors and he would kneel down beside them and he would, the girls, he would squeeze their legs and say, A, B, C. And they, they say it in, in Italian, B, C. And he'd squeeze their legs when he wanted them to recite the alphabet. And then he would dub in later, whatever he wanted. I'm not kidding. I am not kidding you. Terence Stamp did a movie with him and, and his direction was, you're bisexual and you've just taken a load of LSD. And go. And that was his, that was his direction. And that's what he did. That's what he played. A, B, C, D, E, F. Isn't that incredible?

• 45:16Billy Corgan?

  Incredible. Do you have a favorite Fellini movie? Are you a Fellini fan?

• 45:21Billy Corgan?

  Too arty?

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Sorta. Yeah. Well, some of them are arty. I liked, I'm gonna, Roma for the Pope fashion show. I love the Pope fashion. The priest's fashion show. I love that.

• 45:38Billy Corgan?

  Morricone to me is such an incredible, I know you worked with them and I'm, I can't, from what I saw, I can't tell if you enjoyed the experience or not.

• 45:46Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. A wonderful man.

• 45:48Billy Corgan?

  Cool.

• 45:49Speaker 00

  But couldn't speak English?

• 45:50Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. And you couldn't speak Italian.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  Exactly. So.

• 45:53Billy Corgan?

  Did you, did you enjoy the experience of working with him?

• 45:56Speaker 00

  I loved it.

• 45:56Billy Corgan?

  Can you, can you?

• 45:57Speaker 00

  He was ahead of me. Morricone knew the theme of my movie before I knew it. I was, I wasn't, I hadn't gotten to the heart of darkness yet, but he got there immediately. He knew. This movie was about the end of everything. It's all over. He knew it and he put it in his music. And I remember listening when he was conducting the orchestra and I thought, oh, he's right. He's right. There's no way out of this. If you are an imitation of a, of a, an aggressive creature,

• 46:38Speaker 00

  I, I won't be able to tell. And you can take me over. It's over. Humanity's done and I'm, I'm, I'm serious.

• 46:47Billy Corgan?

  I see.

• 46:48Speaker 00

  And so I had to embrace that as a director. He, he paved the way.

• 46:53Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Yeah. He, he strikes me as such an intuitive composer for film.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. He was like experimental. Uh, that's where he came from.

• 47:02Billy Corgan?

  But it's, but it's, it's, it's almost impossible to kind of quantify.

• 47:06Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 47:08Billy Corgan?

  How he knows what to do, but he just knows what to do. And he did it over so many different genres of film.

• 47:14Speaker 00

  And yeah, for different people. Exactly.

• 47:16Billy Corgan?

  I've, I've had thirty meetings in Hollywood begging them to let me be Morricone.

• 47:22Speaker 00

  Really?

• 47:22Billy Corgan?

  And that they won't let me through the door.

• 47:25Speaker 00

  What, what?

• 47:26Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Because they basically say.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Who do you meet with?

• 47:28Billy Corgan?

  All of them. I met with, I met with the, I went multiple times. I met with the head of every movie.

• 47:34Speaker 00

  Well, see, those are the, those are the suits. We call them suits.

• 47:38Billy Corgan?

  Okay. You tell me who I need to meet with.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  With directors. The, the guys who make the movie.

• 47:42Billy Corgan?

  But see, there aren't auteurs like you. Or are.

• 47:46Speaker 00

  There may be. There may be guys.

• 47:48Billy Corgan?

  Tell me, cause I, I.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  I don't know. Excuse me. I don't know, but you need to investigate and find those guys.

• 47:57Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  And meet with them. And tell them what you want to do.

• 48:02Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  And they'll get you in there.

• 48:04Billy Corgan?

  Okay, I like, I like your thinking. I have one, one quick story to share with you. So I was doing a, a, music for a film called Stigmata, which was a nineties kind of.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Sure. Oh, I know the director.

• 48:15Billy Corgan?

  Okay. Yeah, he, he, he didn't like me very much.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  Well.

• 48:20Billy Corgan?

  But here's the funny story, if you, if you don't mind.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  Please.

• 48:23Billy Corgan?

  So, uh, uh, the, uh, the producer of the film was a huge fan of mine and in crew, recruited me to be involved. The director, uh, wasn't so sure.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Do you know his name?

• 48:36Billy Corgan?

  Uh, Rupert, uh.

• 48:38Speaker 00

  Wayne Wright.

• 48:39Billy Corgan?

  Right. So anyway, so, uh, Rupert, uh, wasn't, wasn't so sold on my musical approach.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  He wasn't.

• 48:48Billy Corgan?

  He was not. So they hired like a typical.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Really?

• 48:52Billy Corgan?

  You know, paint by numbers.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  Wait a minute, uh, uh, um, in addition to you?

• 48:56Billy Corgan?

  Yes, on top of me.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  Did you know about it?

• 48:59Billy Corgan?

  Oh, yeah. I had no fear because I knew I would beat the guy.

• 49:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 49:04Billy Corgan?

  So the apocryphal scene in the movie is Gabriel Byrne, who was the lead. He goes into this courtyard and all these supernatural things are happening. And I took a very atonal atmospheric approach.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 49:19Billy Corgan?

  And the director hated it. I mean, he hated it.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  It must be good then.

• 49:24Billy Corgan?

  So he insisted that I change it. And I said, well, read my contract. I don't have to change anything.

• 49:31Speaker 00

  Good for you, see?

• 49:32Billy Corgan?

  I don't have to change anything, but you're more than welcome to, to change, replace it. I have no control over that. So he had the other guy do exactly what you'd expect, swelling strings and. And, uh.

• 49:46Speaker 00

  How was it?

• 49:47Billy Corgan?

  Well. They, they tested both scenes. And mine got the higher score.

• 49:53Speaker 00

  I'm sure it did.

• 49:55Billy Corgan?

  So I won.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  Rupert Wainwright directed the remake of The Fog.

• 50:02Billy Corgan?

  Oh my goodness, did not know that.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:04Billy Corgan?

  So that's now we're connected.

• 50:05Speaker 00

  Yep, we are, we are.

• 50:07Billy Corgan?

  I'm sure he's still cursing my name somewhere. Um, I like what you said about, um,

• 50:15Billy Corgan?

  I guess in a positive way that the, the business you were in, you were dealing with riverboat gamblers at the studios. They were willing to take risks on someone.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Someone, yeah.

• 50:23Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Can you at least elaborate on that a little bit?

• 50:27Speaker 00

  Well, this is, this goes back to the founding of movies there. The, the early guys were all riverboat gamblers. They would, you come in with an idea and they'd try it, you know? And they, they do odd things. They go off in this direction. They had a, they had movies that they made, they knew would make money.

• 50:47Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 50:47Speaker 00

  This is back in the thirties and forties.

• 50:49Billy Corgan?

  Sure.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  But they tried different things.

• 50:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 00

  And, uh, go ahead.

• 50:54Billy Corgan?

  Did you respect the studio system looking back?

• 50:56Speaker 00

  Huge, huge, and it worked. It worked.

• 50:59Billy Corgan?

  What an incredible trove of movies that were made.

• 51:01Speaker 00

  But, uh, yes, incredible films. But look, a movie like, uh, they, they put the Wizard of Oz, they put so much into that film. It kept recasting it and the directors would come and go.

• 51:14Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 51:14Speaker 00

  My God. I mean, it was, it's amazing film. So, no, those guys were fantastic and the system they developed really works.

• 51:23Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 51:24Speaker 00

  But they've got into that now.

• 51:25Billy Corgan?

  Would you, would you like to work in that system?

• 51:28Speaker 00

  Kinda.

• 51:29Billy Corgan?

  Right?

• 51:29Speaker 00

  Kinda.

• 51:30Billy Corgan?

  Kinda, kinda not.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  But kinda not, yeah.

• 51:33Billy Corgan?

  But what I think of, when I think of the studio system, cause I'm a huge fan. I mostly only watch movies from the thirties. That's kind of my, my.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Turner classics? You watch that.

• 51:41Billy Corgan?

  No, I go, I got on my way to watch stuff that's like, you can't even find anywhere.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  Is that right?

• 51:46Billy Corgan?

  I like studio pictures that are, I guess you would call them programmers, but.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Like?

• 51:51Billy Corgan?

  I mean, these weird musicals that are completely lost to history.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 51:56Billy Corgan?

  You know, but oftentimes there'll be a decent director attached to it. It'll be Harry Warren wrote the songs. You know, like there's, I guess what I would say about the studio system is it's less to me about whether or not somebody hit a homerun in every movie, but the quality level is so high because the carpenters were working all the time. The, the, the, the, the character actors, the, you know, the Frank Morgans of the world.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  You know it, man.

• 52:18Billy Corgan?

  They were so skilled that you could plug them into a movie.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  You know it.

• 52:22Billy Corgan?

  You had a level of consistent quality that you cannot find in modern filmmaking.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  It does, yeah, because they gutted the system, I'm telling you.

• 52:29Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  There are no character actors. Well, Hollywood, the actors in Hollywood are in trouble.

• 52:35Billy Corgan?

  Well, they're definitely, they're definitely in trouble now.

• 52:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:38Billy Corgan?

  They keep kicking the can on AI.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  I know. Oh, God.

• 52:41Billy Corgan?

  You want to jump into the AI?

• 52:42Speaker 00

  I, I don't know enough about it, except it's pumps, props, right? Is that the idea?

• 52:47Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  We, yeah, I don't, I don't get it.

• 52:51Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. I know, I know. Uh, somebody just told me the other day that somebody's setting up a multi-billion dollar AI production studio.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 53:01Billy Corgan?

  So basically, if you want a third, if you were making a new film and you needed a scene where your character was going to walk across a desert and you don't have the hundred and fifty grand to blow on the scene.

• 53:11Speaker 00

  You go there, huh?

• 53:13Billy Corgan?

  And you go there and they'll put your guy or girl walking across the desert and Bob's your uncle, as they would say.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, great.

• 53:21Billy Corgan?

  Well, we'll see, you know, jury's still out on that.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:24Billy Corgan?

  But it's certainly going to wreak havoc havoc on this town in terms of.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Well, it'll change everything and you know, find the actors and, and the creative people are fighting against it.

• 53:35Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 53:35Speaker 00

  Because it's, but we'll see, we'll see what happens.

• 53:39Billy Corgan?

  Um, do you see an autour class in the current landscape?

• 53:46Speaker 00

  Not many, few here and there. Yeah, sure.

• 53:50Billy Corgan?

  Do, do.

• 53:51Speaker 00

  Jordan Peele, I think is pretty great.

• 53:53Billy Corgan?

  Do some of them reach out to you for, for?

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Nah, you don't give a shit.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  That old guy, we don't want to talk to him.

• 54:01Billy Corgan?

  I'd love to talk to you. I mean, it's just like, to me, you're, you're, you stood in such a unique spots.

• 54:08Speaker 00

  I did. I had my, my time in it and I'm really happy about that. I got to live my dream. It's a, I really did.

• 54:16Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  It's astonishing. Who would have thought this idiot from Bowling Green could be a director?

• 54:22Billy Corgan?

  For people who aren't knowledgeable about your work, what's the one film you would point them at to say, this was the best?

• 54:29Speaker 00

  I know.

• 54:29Billy Corgan?

  I'm not saying pick, it, it, cause I, I hate when people ask me, what's my favorite album? They're all my favorite album.

• 54:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 54:35Billy Corgan?

  And I hate them all and I love them all.

• 54:36Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 54:37Billy Corgan?

  Because I understand, but I'm, I'm saying is if you, if, if you wanted to say, hey, if I want you, if I want you to watch one film, watch this one film, because I think this is the best kind of balance of what I was at.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  Watch the thing, just check it out. And see if it affects you emotionally anyway.

• 54:55Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  I would say that, or Hollywood. I don't know.

• 54:57Billy Corgan?

  No, no, no, but.

• 54:59Speaker 00

  But I think that's it.

• 54:59Billy Corgan?

  But no, it's helpful.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  I'm proud of the thing.

• 55:01Billy Corgan?

  Yeah.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  Very proud of it.

• 55:03Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Cause certainly.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  And I'm also proud of Cathedral, my new album, which I'm pimping here with you today.

• 55:10Billy Corgan?

  We're not sure when this is coming out, coming out, but it's going to definitely come out soon in 2026. So.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  Great.

• 55:15Billy Corgan?

  Is it, is the Cathedral thing out yet or it's coming?

• 55:17Speaker 00

  Not yet. It's coming.

• 55:18Billy Corgan?

  Okay. So when's it actually coming out?

• 55:20Speaker 00

  God, if I know. May sometime. I don't know.

• 55:22Billy Corgan?

  See, this is why you had trouble in Hollywood.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  It is.

• 55:25Billy Corgan?

  You gotta promote your stuff.

• 55:26Speaker 00

  Well, I'm old now in my memory, you know, but anyway.

• 55:30Billy Corgan?

  Okay. Last, last, last silly question.

• 55:32Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 55:33Billy Corgan?

  How do you think, uh, the Hawkses and the Hitchcocks and the Fords of the world would look at our, our current?

• 55:40Speaker 00

  Time right now?

• 55:41Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Not just the time we're in, but, but the way movies are being made.

• 55:45Speaker 00

  Oh, they'd scratch their heads and say, what, what's happening? That was just so alien to them, the way they worked. The way they made their movies.

• 55:57Speaker 00

  Um, nobody would care that much. That's the thing.

• 56:03Billy Corgan?

  See, that hurts because when you say it, I feel that's true and it hurts.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  It just, they don't care. And I'm not sure a big segment of the audience cares anymore. I'm, I'm sorry, but they don't care.

• 56:15Billy Corgan?

  There's this one thing that I'm thinking of. Um, uh, at the end of The Searchers.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:22Billy Corgan?

  There's that scene where Wayne sort of walks out the door.

• 56:25Speaker 00

  He holds his hand like character.

• 56:28Billy Corgan?

  You knowing what I'm talking about gives me chills.

• 56:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:30Billy Corgan?

  That sense of honor within the genre and genre is too small a word. The nobility of the American film when it's spot on.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:44Billy Corgan?

  And Wayne's ability as an actor and as a human being to understand the symbolism of that moment.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  That's correct.

• 56:50Billy Corgan?

  Where's that gone?

• 56:51Speaker 00

  It's, it ain't here. That's a great scene because there's no place for this guy anymore. He needs to ride on.

• 57:01Billy Corgan?

  Yeah. Thank you, sir.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  You got it, man?

• 57:03Billy Corgan?

  Love talking to you.