How Diet Affects Your Mental & Physical Health w/Dr. Uma Naidoo EP 1214

Today’s guest is Dr. Uma Naidoo. She’s described as the world’s first “triple threat” in the food and medicine space as a Harvard trained psychiatrist, Professional Chef, and a trained Nutrition Specialist. Dr. Naidoo founded and directs the first hospital-based Nutritional Psychiatry Service in the United States and is the best-selling author of This Is Your Brain On Food, where she shows the cutting-edge science explaining the ways in which food contributes to our mental health and how a sound diet can help treat and prevent a wide range of psychological and cognitive health issues, from ADHD to anxiety, depression, OCD, and others. In this episode we discuss the best and worst foods for your health, the benefits and negative effects of different types of foods, how to optimize your brain health, how to develop strong nutritional habits and drop the unhealthy habits and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1214Get Dr. Naidoo's book: https://book.umanaidoomd.comThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,214 with Dr. Uma Naidoo. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:29Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back, my friend. Today's guest is Dr. Uma Naidoo, and she is described as the world's first triple threat in the food and medicine space as a Harvard-trained psychiatrist, professional chef, and trained nutritional specialist. And Dr. Naidoo founded and directs the first hospital-based nutritional psychiatry service in the United States, and is the bestselling author of This Is Your Brain on Food, where she shows the cutting-edge science explaining the ways in which food contributes to our mental health, and how a sound diet can help treat and prevent a wide range of psychological and cognitive health issues,

• 1:11Lewis Howes?

  from ADHD to anxiety, depression, OCD, and others. This is fascinating stuff on how our brain is constantly being affected by the foods we eat. So in this episode, we discuss the best and worst foods for your mental health, the benefits and negative effects of different types of foods, how to optimize your brain health, how to develop strong nutritional habits and drop the unhealthy habits, and so much more. I really love this episode, and I know there's so much we can do to prevent the stress and anxiety and worry that could potentially come in our futures, and a lot of it comes down to the nutritional optimization of the brain foods that we could eat on a daily basis.

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  So if you're inspired by this, make sure to share this with someone that you think This would be helpful for as well and spread the message of greatness forward to a friend or post it on social media. You can use the link lewishouse.com/1214 or copy and paste on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to this show. And I give a big thank you to the fan of the week. This is from Kanupriya who said, "I love this podcast to the core as it is the most real people with real information. And I've been through a very rough phase and this podcast keeps me very positive. The reason it's the best podcast is that the people, especially those related to the medical field are eye openers for me and explain every detail

• 2:35Lewis Howes?

  wonderfully." Kanupriya, I'm so happy that you're getting a lot of value and inspiration from the different medical guests that we have on, but also just all the great guests in general. So, thank you for leaving a review over on Apple Podcasts and being the fan of the week. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dr. Uma Naidu.

• 2:58Lewis Howes?

  This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp online therapy. We talk about BetterHelp a lot on this show, and this month, we're discussing some of the stigmas around mental health. For example, some people think you should wait until things are unbearable to go to therapy, but that isn't true. Therapy is a tool to utilize before things get worse, and it can help you avoid those low lows. And I'll admit, I used to be embarrassed about going to therapy, but I'm telling you, it is so important, and now it is so accessible as well. I highly recommend that everyone turn to BetterHelp to get started on their mental health journey. They are customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with

• 3:40Lewis Howes?

  your therapist, so you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy, and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp, and School of Greatness listeners, get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/greatness. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com/greatness.

• 4:17Lewis Howes?

  In your book, I've been diving in, it's amazing, because you share these different foods that either hurt or help, things like depression, PTSD, ADHD, OCD, anxiety, sex drive, all these other things. I've been reading through all this stuff, it's fascinating. I have been a big fan of realizing that food is medicine for a long time. And in your book, you're talking about the actual science, showing and proving that food is medicine now, is that correct?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Absolutely, no, thanks for the kind introduction.

• 4:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  And for hosting me. That's what it is. I think that the missing conversation has been around how food and nutrition impact our mental health. We go into our doctors' offices and we talk about lots of things. We don't talk about our brain health, and we most certainly don't talk about nutrition enough. Part of that is doctors don't really study that much nutrition. But I think the niche that nutritional psychiatry fills is that conversation, and helping understand that the food we eat impacts our mental well-being, is newer science that has come forward.

• 5:23Lewis Howes?

  What would you say is the percentage, if you could either guess, or if there's percentages out there, of how much food, percentage-wise, affects these negative side effects of mental health from anxiety, depression, and things like that? Is food 100% responsible for these thoughts and feelings? Is it 50% responsible? What would you say?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Off the top of my head, a clinical guess would be about 50%.

• 5:49Lewis Howes?

  50%.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Because I do think that environment, genetics, psychosocial factors, so many other things play into one's emotional well-being. But I think that by cleaning up a certain amount of how we eat, and that includes my diet, everyone, none of us is perfect, by cleaning it up a little bit, I have seen people show significant improvement. And really, the path to this is understanding it's not a quick fix, it's not an overnight thing. It's really a prescription for a lifestyle change. And by doing it that way, it's sustainable. It's not just, let's lose five pounds before the show, before the event or the wedding. It's sustainable. And people do lose weight, it turns out.

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  How do we build a sustainable... Nutritional lifestyle when we've been so conditioned with certain habits and foods for so long, especially here, you know, with the sad diet.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Absolutely, the sad diet. It is sad, and I think that it's true. That's what we used to, and I think it's understanding, firstly, it's educating ourselves and not relying on the wrong sources of education and information. And that's what I mean, just simple things, understanding food labels, for example. I'm not saying you have to go deep into the nutrition science, but understanding that four grams of sugar is one teaspoon is a little bit of a trick for people because we cook in pounds and ounces. So every recipe in the United States is standardized. You learn that in culinary school. And our food labels are grams, so most people picking up a small, half a cup yogurt with fruit in it, because they've heard me say blueberries are great for you, don't realize

• 7:27Speaker 01

  there might be six or eight teaspoons of sugar, of added sugar. So it's educating ourselves, and that power really comes back to us because we then eat in a healthier way.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious about the fruit and sugar, or vegetables and sugar. If you have a certain amount of vegetables or fruit that is supposed to enhance something in your brain, but you also have just as much refined sugar that you've poured on top of it, are there any benefits to that, or does the sugar override the benefits of the vegetables and fruits?

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Have you heard the expression, you can't exercise out of a bad diet?

• 8:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Right, it's not that dissimilar, because you might be eating those servings of veggies, and the nutrients are going to get through. But the negative impact of what happens with the added refined sugars is where the issue is.

• 8:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, someone told me you can't outwork your mouth. You can just, you can't outwork out your mouth. If you keep eating more and more, you're not going to be able to outwork it.

• 8:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay, this is fascinating. Of these... Of these six on the cover of the book and more that you talk about in the book, the depression, PTSD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, and let's say low sex drive. Of those six, which have you seen the fastest or the best results based on a shift in food changes, in consuming different foods? Have you seen, and how fast can this happen? You said it doesn't happen overnight, but are you starting to see this over a week or a few weeks based on certain changes? Or how does that work?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  So some of this answer is also dependent on understanding that the signs of the microbiome. Because each of our microbiomes is like a thumbprint. So a response a person has to the food is also dependent on their quota of microbes in the gut. And therefore, the response times change. So I've seen people start to feel emotionally better. And the condition I see probably the most robust change is either depression or anxiety.

• 9:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:33Speaker 01

  People do, when they start to make those shifts, start to feel better.

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  That's within like a few days, overnight, a week or two?

• 9:41Speaker 01

  At least a week, at least a week.

• 9:42Lewis Howes?

  So they're doing the changes daily for a week? They start to feel better?

• 9:46Speaker 01

  They start to feel uplifted a little bit. They start to notice with people with anxiety, they start to notice by, say, cutting out or limiting a bad eating habit. Let's not call it bad, that's severe, but a less healthy eating habit, that they're starting to notice a change. But usually, we know from the signs of the microbiome that it takes about 28 days for their, to be healing.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  So usually, within the first month is a good guideline to say, if you really are following this and you're being sincere about, look, no one is perfect. So if you're doing it 80% of the time at least, I ask people to do. And you really are limiting those foods that could be driving your condition, that people start to feel better. But over time, it really gets better. And if they're sticking with it, it becomes almost part of how they live.

• 10:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Which is what I want. And because then they're feeling a lot better.

• 10:41Lewis Howes?

  And so they keep doing it?

• 10:42Speaker 01

  They keep doing it. And that's the hook. That's what very often it happens in that first week. Someone notices, not every single time, someone notices, wow, I'm sleeping better.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Wow, I'm feeling less anxious when I wake up. But I will say that with anxiety specifically, it's not just one thing. You know, learning mindfulness, practicing and relaxation exercise, and actually doing those things when you're not having a panic attack. You know, the worst thing you can say to someone who's feeling anxious is, calm down.

• 11:14Lewis Howes?

  Stop feeling anxious.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Stop feeling anxious, calm down, take it. It doesn't make sense because when your system is in overdrive that way, you can't even hear.

• 11:22Lewis Howes?

  What's the best thing to say to someone who's feeling anxious?

• 11:24Speaker 01

  The best thing is to actually have them tap into what you've either worked with them on in coaching, or that they've learned in time. Breathing exercises, you know, mindfulness. Do they respond to a walk in fresh air? Do they walk, or do they respond to getting on the treadmill for 10 minutes? Sometimes just burning off that angst help people. So they have already almost pre-learned certain things that they can, they can do. And that's what you want to help get them to, to come down that episode. But the great thing with nutrition and changing around how you're eating is that can help you all along, because that's working no matter what else is going on.

• 12:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  It's improving because it's working in the gut microbiome and the whole gut-brain system, and it's helping you.

• 12:09Lewis Howes?

  Right. And how important is a healthy gut microbiome?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  It's actually so important for all parts of our health.

• 12:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, not just mental health.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Exactly. My focus is on nutritional psychiatry and therefore mental health. But you know, it's, the gut microbiome is related to sleep, circadian rhythms, hormones, vitamin production, immunity, and mental health as well as more. So it, the health of your gut microbes is uniquely becoming, I would say, even more important in this day and age, as we're understanding the science more. You see, the gut microbiome research is really only about a decade and a half to two decades old. It's newer science, and it really has unfolded the food mood connection or the nutritional psychiatry piece. But at the same time, it's hugely important.

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  You know, things like inflammation of the gut are being associated with conditions like depression, anxiety, cognitive disorders and more. Because it's being seen as an underlying mechanism. Therefore, if you're taking care of your gut health, you actually are taking care of quite a lot.

• 13:17Lewis Howes?

  Your brain health as well and everything else.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Definitely your brain health, but even your physical health.

• 13:20Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Yeah, I've been hearing a lot more about the gut microbiome and how it's connected to the brain and, you know, the thoughts are connected to the gut and all that stuff. But inflammation is one of the main causes, would you say, of brain stress or the anxiety of the brain?

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So, research is showing more and more that inflammation that is sort of chronic and insidious and is happening in our gut microbiome impacts the brain. And that, therefore, conditions like even Alzheimer's, cognitive disorders, depression, anxiety, when you start to improve your gut health, therefore, in that sort of cycle, improve your mental well-being as well.

• 13:59Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. So, the same thing that's good for your gut microbiome is also the same, similar things that are good for your brain?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  For your brain health, absolutely.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  Your brain health.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:08Lewis Howes?

  You talk about brain foods, specific foods that we should be stocking our kitchen with. Can you share what some of these brain foods are? You have an acronym for them. I'm not sure if you have them all memorized, but...

• 14:21Speaker 01

  So, also, I'll give you a few to get you started. So, we use the brain foods acronym to really almost have, be a checklist for people. I like people to take a photograph of it or read it or list it in their phone so that when they're at the supermarket, they're picking out those nutrients.

• 14:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  So, you know, B is my favorite berries. And my favorite berry is blueberry. Now, they're rich in anthocyanins, they're rich in fiber. They are colorful. And that brings me to the R. One of the Rs is for eat the color of the rainbow. And these are sort of things, Louis said, many people overlook. The doctors have said it, or they've heard it, or read it, but... What we're uncovering in the science is that the color of the rainbow, the colors of vegetables, the phytonutrients in those interact with the gut microbes. These are powerful antioxidants, powerful anti-inflammatory substances, which impact things like depression, anxiety and more. So it's no longer just eat a colorful salad.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  There's actual good evidence as to why we should be, we should be eating it.

• 15:27Lewis Howes?

  And is it a matter of it's cooked or uncooked?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  You know, the science on that varies, but my, my feeling about it is the following. When you have raw veggies, they have, you know, their microbiome intact. They providing those bacteria, they're giving you good nutrients. So I like to, I like to play, I like, like people to do the following. Have some, say when they're preparing their vegetables for roasted veggie dish. You know, keep some chopped veggies that you munch on and then roast the rest. Or, you know, whatever, baking the rest, whatever. And so you're having a little bit of a combination of both.

• 16:01Lewis Howes?

  Some raw, some cooked.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  Some cooked. But in things like, say, spinach, you know, steaming the spinach can actually help lower the oxalate levels. So some of it is more specific.

• 16:11Lewis Howes?

  Okay, gotcha. Now here's a, there's a, I've heard a topic about fruits that some people say have as much as you want. Others say the less fruit, the better. Or do it in seasonal times or things like that. Yeah. Have you seen anything where if people are only eating fruit, that it helps or hurts them psychologically? Or can you never have too much fruit in moderation, I guess?

• 16:36Speaker 01

  So think when it comes to psychological health, one of the biggest things is how mental health and metabolic health are now connected. What I mean by that is I talk about berries because they have a low glycemic index. So they have a powerful positive impact, eaten in moderation. So I'm not, I don't mean four cups of blueberries a day. But I do mean about a half a cup at least is one of your servings of fruit in a day. The issue with fruit is that the higher glycemic fruits, say the more tropical fruits, you know, mangoes and pineapples, those are actually less healthy for those with mental health, because many individuals with mental health are, might have the struggle with weight and sometimes with metabolic health.

• 17:17Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, and so if you have a lot of these high glycemic fruits, they store more fat.

• 17:22Speaker 01

  They could increase your weight, they could potentially increase your weight.

• 17:25Lewis Howes?

  Which could make you psychologically say, ah, I'm overweight or not confident yourself.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  That, as well as your metabolic health, because it could impact your insulin resistance, your insulin sensitivity, your glucose load. So, because in my clinical practice, I often see people who are struggling with their weight, and I don't mean low weight, I mean struggling with a little bit of extra weight.

• 17:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 17:46Speaker 01

  Or, they're taking medications, like selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, Zoloft, Prozac, to name a few, one of the side effects is weight gain. Not everyone develops it, but many people do. Psychotropic medications, others, antipsychotics also have a problem, they impact metabolic health and glycemic control, and they impact weight. So you, as a psychiatrist, you really have to be tuned into that, to realize if you're going to save fruit, qualify better fruit for that individual to eat. Because a person could eat two bananas a day, and that could totally increase their weight. Are bananas on their own unhealthy? No. To an average, you know, person of normal weight, who's exercising and leading a healthy lifestyle, perfectly fine to eat a banana.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  But to that individual, it may not be the best solution. So it's that, it's that caveat with mental health that's important.

• 18:36Lewis Howes?

  So what's the best fruit to eat, if you're trying to lose weight?

• 18:41Speaker 01

  So the best, so the best answer to that is stick with a couple of servings of different berries.

• 18:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Stick with a lifestyle that is supporting your weight loss.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Um, which, which goes from mindfulness all the way to hydration.

• 18:56Lewis Howes?

  Good sleep.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Time to good sleep and all of that, right? Cause it's not, we know it's not just one, one thing.

• 19:01Lewis Howes?

  A little bit of stress is in your life.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Exactly. Stress is a huge driver of weight gain, right? Cause of the impact on cortisol. So I would say stick with, stick with a couple of different types of berries. And smaller servings and have those regularly. Cause of the fiber, the phytonutrients from them are still gonna help you.

• 19:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  So I would never say exclude fruit completely.

• 19:20Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Unless, you know, your, your diabetologist has said, look, you need to do this in order to bring down your hemoglobin A1C. Then it's a different conversation.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  So when is fruit good for you then? Cause if you're trying to lose weight, I'm hearing it's not as good to have a lot of it.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  Not a lot of it.

• 19:36Lewis Howes?

  In moderation.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Actually, to be honest, everything in moderation.

• 19:40Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  Cause every, every healthy food, you wanna eat it in a portion controlled sort of way. Fruit is actually always good for you. It's, it's, it provides nutrients, macromitronutrients, which are healthy for your body, healthy for your brain. So whether it's the vitamin C from kiwi or, you know, whichever, or, you know, if you're having leafy greens, not a fruit, but if you're having folate from leafy greens, that's affecting you in a positive way. So fruit are always a good option. But that also comes from my food philosophy, which is I am diet agnostic and I don't demonize a food group. So if you come into me and say, I'm vegan or carnivore, my role as a nutritional psychiatrist is to improve your mental wellbeing. You know, I will advise you how you can tweak your diet in a positive way.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  You may not agree with me, but I'm gonna offer you that guidance. Because what I find is is that people fall into these eat this, not that mentality. Then they exclude entire food groups. Then they crave that food group. Then there's a rebound effect and then they end up either gaining the weight or they end up being unhappy because they've started to consume a food that they previously gave up. It, it becomes a vicious cycle.

• 20:47Lewis Howes?

  Like I said, they weren't gonna eat something, then they go eat it for a month.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Depression, you know, feeling more anxious.

• 20:53Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Um, and then almost unable to get back on that saddle of just eating a healthier diet, which I want people to, to eat, eat healthier foods as part of their lifestyle. So it's a natural, if they, whether they're traveling, whether they're walking through an airport or whether they're at home, they're just reaching for those healthier options.

• 21:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Or carrying it with them.

• 21:12Lewis Howes?

  And what about antioxidants? Why are these so powerful for our mental health?

• 21:16Speaker 01

  So antioxidants have an extremely important impact through the gut microbiome, but also on the brain. You know, in the natural process of life, we encounter different things that form these unhealthy substances in our body called radical oxygen species. If left on their own, they can actually lead to cancer, heart disease, lots of bad things, as well as worsening our mental health. So what antioxidants do is they interact with these radical oxygen species to almost neutralize them. And that's why they're so powerful. So that's why we should eat our antioxidants.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  Okay. And what foods are rich in antioxidants?

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Starting with berries.

• 21:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  But you know, there are also spices. That's something people don't realize. There are spices that are rich in antioxidants, like turmeric with a pinch of black pepper. My nutritional psych high three no brainers add a pinch of black pepper because that makes the turmeric more bioavailable and bioactive to your body.

• 22:18Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  So spices, many of them have rich antioxidants. So the spice cabinet is probably one of the ones you're not tapping into.

• 22:27Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  To add antioxidants, as well as veggies. All these different colors of vegetables, you know, different bell peppers, different lettuces. All of these, you know, whether the purple carotenoids from carrots have rich antioxidants because of the nutrients in them.

• 22:48Lewis Howes?

  What about the research that's been out about lectins and nightshades? Certain lectin, is this something that you would avoid or limit? Or is the science from your research not really saying there's an issue with nightshades and lectins?

• 23:05Speaker 01

  So you know, part of it depends on the person. If they are working with a physician who's asked them to, and their condition, if they've been asked to stay away from nightshades because of a certain condition, and it's been working for them. I'm not there to say, stop doing that and eat everything.

• 23:19Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  If it's working for them, absolutely. But many people come to me a little confused about where, you know, what... What foods include lectins and what they should avoid. But there are also some culinary techniques where you can get around by food preparation. For example, if you like nuts, you know, there's a way to, you know, there's a way to get raw, natural nuts, soak them in water overnight, rinse them out and slow, it's not even roasting because it's such a low temperature, almost dry them out in the oven at a very low temperature. And that circumvents some of the anti-nutrients in them. So there are always ways to think about food and make it healthier or or look at a cooking

• 24:02Speaker 01

  technique which could improve the nutrient, either the nutrient value or get around things like that. So I'd rather have that conversation than ask people to exclude things, not about other people, other people's research, but more about my approach to how I feel I can help individuals when their mental well-being. Because you know, this is not just for someone with depression or anxiety. A lot of people in the last few years have just been feeling a little off, you know, and I use that term loosely, it's a little bit anxious, not sleeping well, feeling blue, just not, just feeling, there's a great article, quality of languishing, you know, just not, not feeling good, just not feeling quite themselves.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  And so eating in a good way can help a lot of that without a prescription.

• 24:48Lewis Howes?

  Right. What would you say is the best cooking technique that you've learned?

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:55Lewis Howes?

  To get the maximum result for optimal nutrition? Is it from the nuts? Is it from soaking something? Is it from some other type of food where you've seen, okay, here's the original raw form and by applying this technique, it actually enhances it to really help your mental health, your brain that much more? Is there a technique like that?

• 25:13Speaker 01

  I don't think there's one technique.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  You know, I think that I mentioned the, I mentioned things like spinach and steaming it or applying gentle temperature, the nuts, that's, that's specific to a better way to enjoy the nuts. Some people don't have a problem with nuts, they eat them and they feel okay. Now, the lectin research may refute that, but again, you pay attention to how you're feeling emotionally, how you're feeling physically, what your doctor's telling you, and you either continue or you, you change direction a little. Um, with one, one, one thing I will say is that many people hear their doctor say, eat your vegetables, eat your greens, and they sort of, they're, you know, they roll their eyes and they move on, they don't do it. Often it's that action step.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  One of the things I can say is just gently roasting vegetables in the oven with delicious flavors, putting in colorful veggies, adding spices, even your kids will want to eat it, you know, because it's interesting, it's different. That, that I think is, is one of the things where you can really expand. And, you know, just little, simple tricks like you can do your roasted, colorful roasted vegetables with different spices for the flavor, plus you can do your protein on, whether you're plant-based, you eat tofu, whether you eat chicken, you can do it on the same sheet pan, and that makes it super easy for someone to prepare, prepare dinner.

• 26:30Lewis Howes?

  Right. The next thing you say is include lean proteins and plant-based proteins. Uh, from the science, you say you don't, you don't eliminate any diet or any food groups.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  I try, I try my best not to, yeah.

• 26:43Lewis Howes?

  There are so many people that try to say like, eat only meat and this is the way to go, and other people who say be vegan, this is the way to go. Is there science proving which foods are better, like, uh, lean proteins that are plant-based versus animal proteins?

• 27:01Speaker 01

  So, in, I will say that, you know, in nutrition science, they're usually things I can quote, they're probably in the same day or same week or same year, at least three other articles which will refute that.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Because that tends to be the spirit of nutrition science. You know, omega threes, I've seen clinically, um, help my patients time and, and time and time again. Whether, usually I like them to use food sources first, but some people prefer supplement or they do. And I've seen the improvements, yet there, there is research to say they're terrible, that, you know, you shouldn't use them, that kind of stuff. So, I say this with an open mind, understanding that.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  So I feel, you know, that the camps who, and they are sort of camps, right? Because they tend to be very polarized. Either only eat this and they, the individuals say who are plant-based will say, well, there's this studies to, you know, name a substance that is negative for your health because it is from meat. And then there are, you know, people, individuals who eat meat who will say, but you know, you don't get enough from just the plant. So there's always this polarization. And here's what I feel about it. I think that the more we continue to have these camps, the more confused we are going

• 28:27Speaker 01

  to continue to be as a country and the worse our nutrition is going to get. Because most people, that's not most people, a lot of people know the sad diet and are consuming that. So anything we can move from that to a healthier version of that food, understanding what healthy whole foods are, is better for us. I think it's much more about that for more people than camps, I'll eat this and not that. And I have difficulty with those because I feel that science can support both sides of the argument.

• 28:59Lewis Howes?

  I know. You can always find evidence for each side.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Evidence for both sides.

• 29:03Lewis Howes?

  And something against the other side, probably, right?

• 29:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. And say, well, gee, you know, you're missing this nutrient because you're plant-based or you're missing that nutrient because you're eating or consuming more meat. And I think that's where most people in the public get confused. And they come in and say to me, should I exclude this entire food group? Should I give up whole grains? Should I never eat a slice of this or that? And I think that perpetuating that is not good for us as a country. But if we can find a sensible way forward to, for the most, so not the people in different camps, but those who just want to eat healthier, want to feel emotionally better, and we, most of us need to right now with all that's going on.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  I think it's a healthier way forward and more sustainable.

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious about.

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  Nuts. You mentioned nuts for a second. This is actually the next thing on the brain foods, the nuts. I'm a big fan of nuts, but can you overdo it? I don't drink milk anymore, but I have the milk substitutions, like almond milk and things like that. So if you're having the physical nuts, then you're having almond milk and then almond butter. Is there too much of that?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  So there's always, even a healthy food, we can overdo even a healthy food. So practicing, I'm not so much of a calorie counter as much as I am the source of food and the quality of food, and then paying attention to portions. So I mentioned blueberries. And I said, you know, that doesn't mean three cups of blueberries a day, because unfortunately then the load of the amount of sugar from that is not good for you.

• 30:38Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Even though berries are healthy and they have lots of nutrients in them. So similarly with nuts. You want smaller servings and you want different types of nuts. My favorites are macadamia and hazelnuts. I eat them in smaller portions. I, you know, for someone who likes nuts and they're going to consume that portion of nuts in a day, you may want to switch to something like hemp milk, which by the way, you can make it like to literally make in two easy steps. And hemp milk has the advantage of having short chain omega 3s in it, because it's rich in ALA. So there's a good solution for...

• 31:17Lewis Howes?

  So if you're gonna have nuts, don't also have almond milk.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  And nut butters and everything in the same day, that same 24 hour period.

• 31:24Lewis Howes?

  Have hemp milk instead.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Have hemp milk instead. You know, have your nut butter, but you know, nut and seed butter, because you're getting the, you're getting other seeds and the value of that. And just don't have a ton of it, you know, so everything in moderation. If you, if you do eat more of it, then maybe have that the next day, you know, balance it up there. But it's similar to avocados. You'll have, you know, delicious avocados in California. The truth is, you know, a good serving in a day is about a quarter of a medium avocado to get the benefit of the healthy fats.

• 31:54Lewis Howes?

  Really? A quarter of a medium avocado?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  About a medium, medium to large avocado.

• 31:58Lewis Howes?

  So not a whole avocado?

• 31:59Speaker 01

  No. It becomes, what happens is it gets calorie dense at that point. And so, you know, it's balancing that up. Now, if you ate that for breakfast, that's okay. My, my policy around that is, you know, just cost correct at the next meal or the next day, because you understand something a little bit better.

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Man, I'm so used to overeating, I think.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  I think we all are.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  I eat a lot. I consume a lot.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  Well, we all do. And the thing about that is what I've learned over time is that I load up on my veggies because things like the sulforaphane-rich veggies, cauliflower, the cabbage, the Brussels sprout, low-calorie, super-rich in fiber. Fiber's great for your gut microbes. That's what feeds them. And great for your body, in general.

• 32:46Lewis Howes?

  Your digestion.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  And your digestion, everything. So by eating, by filling my plate up with a lot of, you know, my nutritional psychiatrist played with a lot of those veggies, low-calorie, gonna fill me up, gonna be nutritious, add in my spices to make them tasty. That's a great way to go, you know. And that, sort of, what I find over time is that is filling and it has my blood sugar in a more even keel.

• 33:10Lewis Howes?

  So if you're gonna overeat, overeat vegetables?

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, overeat those vegetables. Those vegetables.

• 33:14Lewis Howes?

  Those vegetables. What are the vegetables you don't wanna overeat?

• 33:17Speaker 01

  You don't wanna overeat the, sort of, more starchy vegetables. And by that, I mean that they're going to impact your blood sugar in a different way. So, we know that potatoes do that. We know that sweet potatoes do that. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them.

• 33:32Lewis Howes?

  Right, just don't overeat them.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Just don't overeat them. Or, my hack for potatoes, I mean, potatoes are delicious, but my hack for them is, when you have a cool, when you bake a potato and you allow it to cool, it changes the reaction within that potato to make it a resistant starch, which not only lowers the glycemic index, it actually makes it a healthy food.

• 33:56Lewis Howes?

  So baked potatoes?

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Baked potatoes and then cool them. And then, you know, heat them up or whatever. It's a process that happens within the potato.

• 34:05Lewis Howes?

  So having a baked potato, oh, but then cooled, not hot?

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Bake it, cool it, and then, you know, heat it up or do whatever you're gonna do to to have it with your toppings.

• 34:15Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. What happens if you have it baked and you eat it hot?

• 34:19Speaker 01

  So it doesn't allow, the cooling, it hasn't gone through the process of that change, which makes it a resistant starch. The process is called retrogradation. So it hasn't gone through that. So you're just, you're kinda just eating the potato.

• 34:32Lewis Howes?

  So that's a good cooking strategy.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  That's a good cooking strategy to add.

• 34:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:37Lewis Howes?

  So bake the potato, cool it. Like, put it in the refrigerator or just let it sit out?

• 34:42Speaker 01

  You can let it sit out, or you can place it in the fridge and have it for the next meal.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Something like that, allowing it to process. That just changes it into a different form and different effect on your microbiome. And that is healthier. Does that mean you should eat six a day? No.

• 34:56Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Should it mean you shouldn't eat one every day? No. It's still in moderation, but it's trying to prove my point that when I say potatoes, I don't mean never eat a potato, you know?

• 35:06Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  It's actually a vegetable we all eat and something that's at all our holiday tables, etc. So it's just kind of sort of understanding that a little bit. And, you know, and thinking about it.

• 35:20Lewis Howes?

  More fiber-rich foods, fish and fermented foods. How much? Can you have too much fish in a day? What is too much fish, I guess?

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, you know, generally, two to three servings of fish a week.

• 35:33Lewis Howes?

  A week.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  A good, a good. You can have more if you like a seafood diet or you're pescatarian. Certainly, that's perfectly fine. I think, again, the sauce and the quality. So wild sockeye salmon, a fatty fish that's rich in the omega-3s. Good for your brain, good for your body, you know? Muscles, oysters, it's rich in zinc, great for your brain. So it's balancing that up with everything else that you're doing. Again, lean into those vegetables, you know, leafy greens, the salads, all of that. As well as, you know, the fiber-rich foods. Because you don't get fiber from animal or seafood protein. You get it from vegetables, fruit, beans, nuts, seeds, lentils, legumes, and those healthy whole grains.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  So you need to add those fiber, the fiber-rich foods. And I always say fiber foods help your anxiety because they basically, they're your friend. They metabolize more slowly, so add those in. So, yeah. So with seafood as well, it's, you know, portion control, eating better sources if you can.

• 36:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  And balancing it out with everything else.

• 36:40Lewis Howes?

  What about fermented foods?

• 36:42Speaker 01

  So that's a good one because a good, a good and recent study published in Cell, which is a highly reputable journal from the summer, from researchers at Stanford, talked about fermented foods helping with that inflammation we mentioned and reducing it. So adding in a serving of fermented foods to each of your meals is a super great way to go.

• 37:04Lewis Howes?

  What are the top tasting fermented foods?

• 37:07Speaker 01

  So I like kimchi.

• 37:09Lewis Howes?

  Kimchi.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  I like kimchi. It, you know, depends on the person's palate. Kefir, if you eat dairy, it's a soured yogurt. Get the plain, the plain kind, add it to a smoothie or something else.

• 37:20Lewis Howes?

  Soured yogurt, what's it called?

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Kefir, K E F I R.

• 37:23Lewis Howes?

  K E F I R.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  And they do have the fruited ones, so try to skip those, just get the plain. Kombucha, look for one that's, you know, doesn't have a ton of added sugar in it. Miso, miso paste. I have a recipe in my book for miso glazed sweet potatoes. And it actually is a great way to have your fermented food as well as a, you know, more complex vegetable. But you can also add it to other veggies. I happen to pair it with sweet potatoes, but you can, you can brush it on, marinate it onto other veggies. And almost every culture has a fermented food, so there, there are certainly several more, but, but that's some, some, some ways to get started.

• 38:07Lewis Howes?

  Oils is the next one you have here. I've heard conflicting things on oils, that there are certain oils that are, that are great for the brain food, right? That are great, but then also, isn't oil like a non-natural process where you're extracting something from the food? And so it's processed still, isn't that like?

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Right, so, so, you know, with, with the oils, the ones that I kind of recommend, we, or suggest we use are things like extra virgin olive oil. I use a little bit of, of avocado oil. But what you're referring to is a very important point because processed vegetable oils and those seed oils. Especially the ones that are used in like fast food restaurants because they're cost effective. Um, are prone inflammatory. They up omega six levels in the body. And so they are really driving inflammation instead of lowering it. So it's a good reason and certainly for physical, but also importantly, mental health for us to be a little bit careful.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Is extra virgin olive oil and avocado oil help decrease inflammation?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  They have healthy fats in them, which are brain, which are, they are brain healthy fats. So that's the way to think about them. And, and yes, they don't drive, they're not increasing, they're not pro-inflammatory. They're not driving inflammation.

• 39:25Lewis Howes?

  Those two. And, and, but if you have too much of it, it's too many calories, right?

• 39:31Speaker 01

  Exactly. They can be very calorie dense. Now, now people who eat certain, certain, um, certain diets will say, have as much olive oil as you want. You know, uh, put, put in as much butter as you want. Now butter's delicious. You can have butter, just have it in, you know, in moderation. Um, as with, as with everything else.

• 39:50Lewis Howes?

  The next thing is omega three rich foods. So omega threes in fish, is that right?

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Yes. So omega threes on fish, you can get, um, you know, you get the short chain omega threes in some plant foods. The ALA like hemp seeds, chia seeds, flax seeds, sea algae, sea vegetables. But the conversion to the longer chain is, is not as efficient.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  In the seeds.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  In, in the vegetable sources, the plant-based sources.

• 40:17Lewis Howes?

  As it is with fish.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  As it is with, with seafood. Exactly.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Um, or the fish. So, so my, my, the, I feel that, you know, rather than struggling about whether you're going to get that conversion in your body. One of the things is if someone is plant-based, consider an algal oil supplement, which can, which can make up for that. Now, not every person who is vegan may agree with that, but it's a suggestion to, certainly for my patients, I would ask them to do that.

• 40:44Lewis Howes?

  An algae supplement, is that what you said?

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Exactly, algal oil. Yeah.

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  Okay, gotcha.

• 40:50Lewis Howes?

  I wish there was just like one supplement you could take for everything.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 40:56Lewis Howes?

  So dairy has, you say dairy is one of the things for brain foods as well. Is milk and dairy products really that good for you? I've heard a lot of different conflicting things about the inflammation behind milk and cheeses and things like that, but you say certain cheeses, yogurt and kefir, right?

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:18Lewis Howes?

  So, but what about milk and?

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So, you know, I think that this comes down to the nature of your microbiome, the nature of your health, because in my practice, from when I started, I think that, oh, I know that my nutritional psychiatry plans have become much more highly personalized.

• 41:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  As we understand a little bit more about the science of the microbiome. Dairy does not agree with everyone, you know, besides the lactose intolerance. People may find it inflammatory, but again, it goes back to the source. If I'm recommending dairy or working with someone who does consume dairy, it's grass milk fed dairy. It's not just, you know.

• 41:57Lewis Howes?

  Hormone. Infused.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Infused dairy, which is completely different.

• 42:01Lewis Howes?

  Which is what I had my whole life, growing up.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Which is what we had growing up, absolutely. And so it's the source, it's finding alternate milks that, like you mentioned, that could, you know, could substitute that flavor that you might be used to, that richness. With the cheeses, it really is the look for the probiotic sources. Remember that cheeses can be sheep's milk and goat's milk, because there's less of an issue around the dairy farming problem that we run into. So that's an option for people who like cheeses as well.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  Are those the top type of cheeses you recommend, sheep and goat's milk?

• 42:37Speaker 01

  If you're struggling with, if you don't like dairy, then you might want to consider those alternatives to cow's milk dairy products.

• 42:45Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha. If you love cheese like me, you're saying you recommend those.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm saying look for a good sauce and make sure that you're getting a good sauce of the cheese. A good, if you drink milk, make sure it's a grass milk.

• 42:55Lewis Howes?

  Got it, okay.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Where you get it from becomes important, um, you know, organic and all of that, so.

• 43:01Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  That makes a difference.

• 43:03Lewis Howes?

  Last thing, you talked about spices. You already talked about it a little bit, but the, uh, you know, turmeric with pepper and so certain other spices. If you have no spices on your food, is it still okay if you're doing most of these things?

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Absolutely. There's no, there's no, um, hot and fast food. So if you, if you don't eat spices, well, you, you know, maybe you don't like them, but, but, but I would encourage you to explore a little bit outside of the box because many people just don't realize the, the brain benefit in the spices, uh, in their spice cabinet that's often overlooked. It's, let's add a little bit of this and move on, but actually they're very powerful.

• 43:38Lewis Howes?

  Right. Uh, in chapter four, you talk about, I believe, trauma, PTSD and trauma.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:46Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious, what type of foods continue to,

• 43:52Lewis Howes?

  emphasize traumatic experiences in our, in our minds or in our thoughts, in our bodies, I guess? Are there certain foods that keep us living in traumatic patterns?

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:02Lewis Howes?

  And then there are other foods that help us heal traumatic memories, whether it be mentally or physically from the past?

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yes. You know, trauma is a very, very complicated subject. And it's, it's something that to be, you know, as a psychiatrist, there's not only one route to healing.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  And that's where, like with other conditions as well, all forms of therapy is in healing and sometimes even medication become important. But if we would look just at the nutritional elements, going back to that sad diet, going back to the diet that produces inflammation in the body, the added refined sugars that worsen our microbiome, impact inflammation in the brain, all of that just keeps you in that negative cycle, you know? It keeps you, when, when you've experienced a traumatic event or more than one, your, your brain is, you know,

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Your brain is dealing with that. So there's less of your brain available to making healthier choices. So what you want to do is almost think about it as eating in a way that calms down that brain and helps with the healing so that the person can actually heal from within and make those better choices. So that's part of the psychological experience of it. But then, you know, foods that can help you, blueberries actually, that have a good amount of evidence, believe it or not, behind them. But then leaning into those antioxidant and anti-inflammatory rich foods. And, you know, adding sort of almost revitalizing your diet. And where I always start lows with people is think about just one kind of unhealthy habit you've picked up during the pandemic, you know, and start there.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  It's gonna help you.

• 45:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  And then.

• 45:43Lewis Howes?

  Limiting all that sugar.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. And of course, you know, step away from the cookies or step, you know, find a better alternative to the ice cream or whatever it is, you know.

• 45:53Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. I'm curious, I had a, I did an interview with Dr. Daniel Amen, which I know you know as well.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:01Lewis Howes?

  And I'm curious, he talks a lot about brain health as well. And I did the whole brain scan. I don't know if you've done that as well.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  I haven't done it with him, but I've, I've heard good things.

• 46:08Lewis Howes?

  Fascinating what you learn about the traumas of the brain that you've had and all this stuff.

• 46:14Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious your thoughts on the effects of alcohol, smoking, vaping and marijuana on the brain health and how those things hurt or help your brain health.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let me start with, with, you know, smoking because, you know, lung cancer is still a massive killer in the United States. Putting COVID aside, putting heart disease aside, it's still a massive killer. So smoking, I can't really find a way whereas with food or even alcohol or caffeine, other substances that people sometimes don't consume, let's say, or don't eat.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  I can always find a way to provide guidance around moderation. With smoking, it's hard for me to do that.

• 47:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's no benefit.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  There, I can't find a benefit, I still haven't.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  My patients who, who I'm encouraging to give up smoking will tell me it helps them with their weight, but. That's unfortunately just I

• 47:16Lewis Howes?

  That's the only benefit, but it's an unhealthy

• 47:18Speaker 01

  But it's an unhealthy benefit because you know you're kind of killing your lungs at the same time or you're creating COPD which is very painful as you grow older to suffer from.

• 47:28Lewis Howes?

  And when you have that in your lungs, what does it do to your brain health?

• 47:31Speaker 01

  Well, you, for one thing, you know, your oxygen, so our bodies run on oxygen and all the, as well as other, as well as nutrients. And if your lung capacity is getting lower and lower, it's not feeding your brain enough oxygen. You're not, you know, you see this in COPD patients and people struggling with those conditions. So I can't justify that one, Lewis. With cannabis, the research is emerging. There's also, separate to marijuana, there's the psychedelic research that's emerging in psychiatry. I think we'll be learning more and more about that. I think what gets confusing for the public is that because marijuana has been legalized in some states, recreational use is not the same as medical use. That is regulated and prescribed.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  So there's a little bit of confusion with that. What I notice is in individuals who are using it recreationally or what I see in my hospital practices, people don't often know what that cannabis is mixed with. And they can have from psychotic episodes to worsening anxiety. They can lose touch with reality.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  So it can be very mixed. So I think it's about the source. It's about whether it's prescribed. It's about whether you're using it responsibly or you're just kind of using it recreationally. There's a whole gamut of things there.

• 48:50Lewis Howes?

  Is there any research on brain health and vaping?

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Not, not that I'm familiar with off the top of my head. I will, I will need to look into that because I think we, I don't personally know, know yet.

• 49:07Lewis Howes?

  And then with alcohol?

• 49:08Speaker 01

  But with alcohol, there's a good, there's a good amount of research. But my feeling about it is offering people guidance around moderate use, responsible use. Because more people than not drink alcohol. So having them understand that becomes important because it's, I know that, you know, for example, Dry January is a big thing and I encourage people, if that's something they want to try, just make sure that if they've been drinking really heavily on the holidays, they don't just stop overnight because they can go into physiological withdrawal.

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 49:40Speaker 01

  And be quite sick and very anxious and Have the heart racing and all sorts of things. But if that's a healthy habit that they want to make, you know, go for it by all means, just do it with some guidance. With alcohol, there are a couple of things. Pay attention to your body intelligence, one of the principles, and pillars of nutritional psychiatry. So if you're drinking alcohol and you're not feeling good, pay attention to that.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Or if you're feeling like you need two more glasses of wine to feel okay during COVID, that has become a problem for a lot of people. We know that alcohol and drug use increased during COVID. That's important to pay attention. If you're leaning on a glass of wine to help you sleep, it's going to disrupt your sleep architecture. So, all of that being said, if you're drinking moderation, enjoy a cocktail, have a clean cocktail. Avoid those simple syrup, which is simply sugar, the added liquors, which is just messing it up.

• 50:35Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Just have a clean cocktail. And, you know, wine, red wines, whatever it is you're drinking, stay within some guidelines, moderation. And if it's something you want to give up, you know, speak with a doctor because you don't want to go from six glasses of wine a day, shouldn't be drinking, to zero. You know, you want to do it gradually so that your body can handle it.

• 50:57Lewis Howes?

  Have you seen anything on the science around sparkling water, carbonated water, on how that affects either the gut or the brain?

• 51:06Speaker 01

  I've seen a little bit, and I want to actually learn a bit more about it because people have said,

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  Because I love sparkling water.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  About the carbon. Exactly. And I drink sparkling water, plain, you know, because I like water as, you know, my go-to beverage that I sip on. And actually, it has a good amount of evidence in mental health because dehydration can worsen anxiety.

• 51:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  And precipitate panic. And low levels of water and actually dehydration has been, there's an association with depression as well. So, you know, it's important to keep our bodies running. But the combination, I've heard things about, you know, the impact on the microbiome. I'm just not sure. So that's something I want to look into.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  I'd love to learn that. If you get the research, let me know.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  I will.

• 51:49Lewis Howes?

  Because I want to make sure I'm not drinking too much of it. Because I don't drink any alcohol. And so I've never been drunk. I have like a Baileys on ice, maybe like once or twice a year. And that's about it.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  That's about it, yeah.

• 52:00Lewis Howes?

  And water gets boring after a while. And I don't want to have soda. I pretty much eliminate soda from my life. Except for ever occasionally. So it's like, and I know that, you know, fruit juice is like lemony or something, has a lot of sugar in it. So it's like.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  Do you flavor your water with like citrus or berries?

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  I don't.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Just a natural?

• 52:20Lewis Howes?

  I don't like berries, which is bad.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  That's okay. You know, pieces of citrus, pieces of kiwi.

• 52:28Lewis Howes?

  Maybe something like a thing of lemon, just put it in.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Exactly. A fresh squeeze of lemon, a fresh squeeze of actual orange. Very different from a juice, you know, the actual squeeze of, that really just helps to give you a little bit of a different flavor.

• 52:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  And lots of ice, you know, change it up a little bit.

• 52:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I could start doing that more.

• 52:47Lewis Howes?

  You also have some great research in here, which I think some people like this chapter on, I guess libido. The foods that you should be eating that can enhance your libido or the foods that will hurt your libido. Can you share a few of the positive and the negative ones?

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Sure. So, you know, the ones that you want to be leaning into the long list, but you know, dark chocolate, people will be happy to know. Extra dark natural chocolate that's, you know, seventy, seventy-five percent or higher is actually good. And is an oxytocin-rich food, pistachio nuts, avocado, apples. There are a few that you can tap into. And you know, cleaning up that, it goes back to cleaning up that diet. You know, there's certain amount, there's a certain amount of research on that and.

• 53:33Lewis Howes?

  But see soy protein was one?

• 53:35Speaker 01

  Was in men, yes.

• 53:36Lewis Howes?

  For men to avoid, for women it's okay?

• 53:39Speaker 01

  It was, it was what the research showed that wasn't as problematic for women. So it's sort of interesting there, but again, you know, a lot of Asian countries, a lot of, actually in the US, you know, soy, it's the sources of soy, right? So non-generative, well-sourced organic tofu, actual edamame soybeans, you know, versus some sort of processed version, those become important.

• 54:04Lewis Howes?

  Sugar's a big thing as well to avoid.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:06Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Come, it comes back to that sad diet, yeah, yeah.

• 54:10Lewis Howes?

  If you could eliminate one food from everyone's diet forever, if you just say, we, we had to eliminate one thing from the earth, no one could ever eat this specific thing, what would that be? To help us improve our mental health, our brains, our overall physical health, our gut microbiome?

• 54:29Speaker 01

  It would be refined sugars.

• 54:31Lewis Howes?

  Refined sugar.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Right, because we have sugar in, you know, many different foods get broken down to sugar, but it's the refined, those added refined sugars. So you know how high fructose corn syrup got developed in the food industry? All of those things really did change the nature of our food. And so added refined sugars, I think, would make a difference if.

• 54:53Lewis Howes?

  Getting rid of those.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  Getting rid of those.

• 54:55Lewis Howes?

  What would people, what are three great substitutes? Instead of refined sugar, if they're used to putting sugar in coffee or, I don't know, on top of foods, what would be three, in moderation, substitutes that would maybe even benefit if you took these things?

• 55:13Speaker 01

  So berries, we'll go back to that. I know, you don't like them, but a piece of fruit. So I, you know, I like a little cayman tie, you know, they tie, they small, eat a little bit of it. Cinnamon, cinnamon is a spice that actually offers sweetness.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Along with that, I think pumpkin pie spice. So those all have a little bit of sweetness without, without the actual sugar. So although, unless you have a spice that has, is a blend which has sugar added, that's different. I'm talking about the pure spice.

• 55:43Lewis Howes?

  Pumpkin pie spice, cinnamon.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Cinnamon, all have a little bit of the sweetness because the spices have sweetness. And I guess the third one would be. Yes, sweetened.

• 55:55Lewis Howes?

  Like honey, agave, are those?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Right, so I use a touch of honey in things. And the reason is that honey, I know individuals who are plant-based won't consume honey, but honey has a lot of other health benefits. It helps immunity, it helps a lot of other stuff. So, good source of like manuka honey or really well-sourced honey could actually have other health benefits. So for me, if I'm sweetening a whole batch of cheer pudding that I'm using, I'm not using a ton of it, I'm using a touch of honey, you know.

• 56:23Lewis Howes?

  What's a touch? Because I love honey.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  Right. Exactly, so it's like if I'm making a whole bowl of say two or three cups, I would probably use not more than a teaspoon. That's, you know, for a large batch, it's not much. So for me, over time, I've kind of honed my sweet senses to having less sugar. So I can do that. And it's a process, even my patients, all the time, it's a process. From a candy bar, going, teaching them to eat and get used, have their palate get used to a dark, natural chocolate that actually is loaded on serotonin and magnesium and lots of good things for you. They go from a whole candy bar to eating a square or two because the palate changes

• 57:07Speaker 01

  and that part of it is that, you know, the candy bar is often the sugar that's, that tastes good and that is wanting us to eat more as well, it gets into that vicious cycle.

• 57:18Lewis Howes?

  You've been studying this for a long time. You teach this to a lot of people with your clients, but you're also now teaching this to nutritionists and other experts in the world. What's the thing that you struggle with the most in your own, with all the information that you know, with, with your own food intake? Or guess, what's the thing that's challenging for you?

• 57:37Speaker 01

  So, this is a great question because with the emergence of my book during a pandemic.

• 57:45Speaker 01

  Sharing my book with the world became almost an entire job on its own.

• 57:48Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot of work.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  And one.

• 57:49Lewis Howes?

  Marketing and promoting it too.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  Exactly, you know. The thing that I really had to relearn was my time management around food preparation.

• 57:58Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  And I say that as a chef. I say that as someone who talks about meal preparation as being so important because what would happen, Lewis, is I would be going from one podcast to the next and I would not realize I didn't have a lunch break.

• 58:10Lewis Howes?

  Grab something, yeah.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  I would be sitting with the virtual world and promoting the book, be sitting on one interview after the next and have forgotten my water bottle.

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  And so really I had to take a step back and reevaluate how I was going to handle it because, like I said, it became like a whole other job. And so, trust me, and I say, you know, my nutrition is not perfect. I've had to relearn a lot of that again and say Wednesday is going to be my meal prep day and I'm going to go back to making my chia pudding and stuff because it was so thrown off by the pandemic and needing to promote and share my book without any, you know, any media being available.

• 58:49Lewis Howes?

  Chia pudding, is that a, is that a healthy dessert?

• 58:52Speaker 01

  So you can actually have it in many different ways. I have it as a breakfast, I have it as a dessert. So the great thing about chia pudding is it's all about the ratio of the chia seeds to the coconut milk.

• 59:04Lewis Howes?

  Condensed milk.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  Coconut milk.

• 59:05Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, that sounds good.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  And then it, the seeds expand and gel and they form like their own little, little pudding. So you don't need much of it to be very satiated because they're rich in fiber and protein. And then you get some healthy fat from the coconut milk. And I top it, so if I'm having in the morning, I'll put, I know, berries.

• 59:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  But if I want it as more of an evening dessert, I'll either add some, make it a cocoa flavor with.

• 59:30Lewis Howes?

  Some cacao nibs or something.

• 59:31Speaker 01

  Some cacao nibs for crunch or add in some natural cacao powder when I'm making it. You know, you can play with it and really get something good out of it. Or I have my turmeric in it and then just switch it out with maybe some crunchy nuts for the evening or whatever it is. So you can actually have it as a snack whenever you want.

• 59:51Lewis Howes?

  How do you make this?

• 59:53Speaker 01

  It's very simple. I don't have the ratio with me, but it's because I usually make it in large batches. It's a small amount of chia seeds. It's with coconut milk and it's basically two ingredients. You make sure that it's blended. You just use a spoon. And what I do is I set it out in little mini ramekins. So I have a little chia pudding.

• 1:00:12Lewis Howes?

  Little jars or?

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  You can use jars and seal it. The little tiny mason jars. You can use little ramekins and cover it with, you know, kind of a

• 1:00:22Lewis Howes?

  Plastic wrap or something?

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Plastic wrap, yeah. So that it's sealed and then you can use it at least for seven days at a time. You can make a batch and it sets overnight. So it's actually

• 1:00:32Lewis Howes?

  So you're just mixing coconut milk with chia seeds in a jar. Do you put it in the refrigerator? Or how's it work?

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Yes, in the fridge. You set it in the fridge. That's all you do.

• 1:00:40Lewis Howes?

  You mix it in and then you put it in there?

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yes. So the chia seeds swell with the liquid and

• 1:00:46Lewis Howes?

  Kind of clagulates a little bit?

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Exactly. And they kind of make this pudding type texture.

• 1:00:50Lewis Howes?

  That's all it is. There's no other process to it. Put it in the refrigerator, let it cool?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  Stir it up and just chill it overnight.

• 1:00:57Lewis Howes?

  For 24, 12 hours, 24 hours?

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Actually, the small ones set pretty fast. So you can sometimes do it in a few hours. So you could do it in the morning and eat it later in the day. What I tend to do is make it when I do my food prep day and make it for the week.

• 1:01:11Lewis Howes?

  That sounds good. I might have to try that. I could do that and not mess it up, I feel like. Do you have the ratios in here?

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:17Lewis Howes?

  You do?

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  I have the chia pudding in there. And if not, it's also on my Instagram.

• 1:01:20Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing. This is your brain on food, an indispensable guide to the surprising foods that fight depression, PTSD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, help with your sex drive, and so much more. This has been very inspiring. I have a couple of final questions for you, but I want to make sure people get the book. They can get it anywhere online, Amazon, your website. What is your website, by the way, where people can get more?

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Sure. My website is umaanaido MD dot com. And my Instagram is at D R U M A N A I D O O. We also put out tons of information there. And I'm actually hosting my first virtual course in nutritional psychiatry early in 2022 for anyone who wants to learn more and dive deeper than the book.

• 1:02:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow. What would that cover?

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  That would cover Beyond what's in the book. So we go through the basic tenets of the book. Because people have individual questions. They have wanted deeper learning of the subject. And as you know, in any book, you can never cover all the topics. So we go into more topics, question and answer sessions. And hopefully, it will deepen people's knowledge of the subject and their interest.

• 1:02:32Lewis Howes?

  Dr. Ruma, I really acknowledge you for the way you show up. I think researchers and people working in universities can stay stuck in the university or working with one-on-one clients. And there's nothing wrong with that. But by you taking this, simplifying it into a book, and now wanting to go beyond that, I think is really inspiring for so many people that are confused around what to eat, how to eat, how it affects their gut, how it affects their brain. So I really acknowledge you for showing up, for doing the work, for packaging this in a way that we can consume it and understand it so it doesn't seem so overwhelming. And for doing all the podcasts you do to get it out there, even if your diet's a little off here and there. But it's amazing.

• 1:03:13Lewis Howes?

  And so I really acknowledge you for your decades of research and training so that we can become better human beings.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Thank you, I so appreciate that.

• 1:03:23Lewis Howes?

  A question that I ask everyone at the end called three truths question. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario. It's your last day on earth, many years away from now. You get to live as long as you want to live.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:03:34Lewis Howes?

  But eventually, you've got to call it your last day.

• 1:03:38Lewis Howes?

  And you've accomplished all of your dreams in life. You've accomplished everything. You've created a life of your dreams. You've spent time with the people you love. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you. Your message, your content, your books, videos, like everything you've ever created, for whatever reason, it's got to go somewhere else. So we don't have access to your information anymore. But you get to leave behind, on this last day,

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:03Lewis Howes?

  Three lessons. Three things you know to be true about all the things you've learned in life that you would like to share with the world. What would you say would be those three truths? Off the cuff, obviously.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Number one, be kind to yourself.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Because without that, honestly, you can't be able to help anyone else.

• 1:04:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  The second is you are what you eat, even though it's cliched and overly used. And it's often misunderstood and never actually taken seriously. So you mentioned the sad diet and you know what I'm talking about. And the third is spices are the magic in your kitchen cabinet that are going to help your mental health.

• 1:04:50Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:52Lewis Howes?

  I like it. Spices are the magic. Very cool. I'm excited for this. I want people to get the book.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:04:59Lewis Howes?

  Is there anything else we can do to support you currently?

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Well, thank you. I think, you know, helping me to bring this message forward and whatever way you can. So I thank you for sharing this podcast and inviting me. But people listening to it, you know, supporting the book, supporting the work, letting us know the burning questions that they have.

• 1:05:17Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  You know, it's social media. I can't answer. I can't be a doctor. I can't answer medical questions. But, you know, we can, if we hear from people, we'll put a post out on something. We'll add it as a segment to the course that I teach, that type of stuff. So that really helps me.

• 1:05:33Lewis Howes?

  Okay, cool. Okay, final question, Dr. Uma. What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Truly being yourself. If you are able to reach that place within yourself to be confident to be yourself, I truly think that makes you the greatest that you can be on the self.

• 1:05:56Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.