#271 - New DMT Experiment Finds 'Alien Code' Hidden in the Fabric of Reality | Danny Goler

Watch this episode ad free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Danny Goler created an experiment with DMT that proves we exist in a computational reality and how this can lead to a deeper understanding of our existence. SPONSORS https://shopmando.com - Use code DANNY for $5 off your starter pack. https://apple.co/4e8ylpA - Sign up for DraftKings Casino with code DANNYJONESPOD. https://bit.ly/viiadannyjones - Try VIIA & use code DANNY. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS Danny's YouTube Channel: @dangothoughts https://www.tiktok.com/@dannygoler https://www.instagram.com/dannygoler https://twitter.com/GolerDanny FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Danny's first DMT trip 12:59 - Discovering the boundary to our simulation w/ DMT 26:34 - Talking to aliens through DMT 34:51 - Numbers hidden in the fabric of reality 50:19 - Scientists' reaction to Danny's theory 01:02:16 - The laser experiment 01:13:43 - Code written into the DMT world 01:29:52 - "Objectness" in the DMT space 01:39:40 - Tom Matte's upright vision 01:44:06 - Improving the laser DMT experiment 01:52:04 - Extended state DMT study 02:00:18 - Real world vs. simultation 02:08:20 - Something big is about to happen 02:11:32 - DMT makes you smarter 02:18:34 - Ancient Greek drugs 02:23:30 - AGI is Jesus Christ 02:35:54 - DMT x UFO connection Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Danny Jones?

  Dude, last night was one of the wildest experiences I have ever had.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  I'm glad to hear that. It was, it was fun to watch it.

• 0:16Danny Jones?

  Wow dude. I can finally say I've done DMT.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  Congratulations.

• 0:22Danny Jones?

  Thank you. Thank you very much. The way you did it too, like the way you helped guide us through it. And by doing the Wim Hof breathing up front and like timing out all of the hits and understanding what to expect, like you really made it a super enjoyable and comfortable experience. So first of all, thanks for doing that, man. That was a really cool thing to, for me too.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  I appreciate it, man. Yeah, it means a lot. Actually, I wasn't that, I realized later that I'm not that good of a guide, even though I've done it so many times. Uh, and that I put a lot of effort into understanding what it actually requires to guide somebody. So it means a lot that you're saying that.

• 1:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah. No, no, no. You, you did a fantastic job. I wasn't expecting all of that sort of like warm up to it. So I thought that was great. Um, and I'm, it's kind of been crazy to process over the last eight hours. And when I used to think of DMT, I thought of it more of something you would get from like a marijuana gummy or to like to the extreme, but just for a short period of time, right? Like this wasn't, and I was, I've always, whenever I take gummies, I sometimes I have like bad trips, like my worst fears creep into my thoughts. This was not like that. This was just smiles. Like I just couldn't stop smiling. And it was just so bizarre getting catapulted out of my body like that.

• 1:46Danny Jones?

  I, I mean, I can't really put it into words yet, but um, Jesus Christ, that was wild.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Well, again, I'm super happy that you had a great experience. Uh, one of the things, you were absolutely right. Before you do it for the first time, I remember mine, you can't really imagine that it's possible to go the opposite direction of getting high. Because with everything that we have, weed, alcohol, well, most things, even with mushrooms that kind of send you in a simple direction. It's always like something is drifting away slightly from your senses, either up, but like a little bit down to the side. Rarely that do your senses get sharper. And like everything kind of goes, like you said, I see everything more in 3D. Everything looks more real.

• 2:29Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  That that direction is not really familiar to us though.

• 2:32Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33Danny Jones?

  But that part of it was kind of like an after part. That was like an after effect of it. Cause like originally, after I was at like my third hit, I was starting to like feel a little wobbly. And then I did a fourth hit and I was like, I felt like the the rocket lifting off, right? And then the fifth hit, I was like almost gone. And then by the time I inhaled that fifth hit, I just like right out of my body, just shot right on top of my body and I was gone. I was just catapulted through another universe filled with light cluster, like different color lights and spectrums and patterns and the few times I did open my eyes though, it was uh, it was almost unbearable. I was almost scared.

• 3:17Danny Jones?

  Like when I, when I opened my eyes and I saw the you like bursting with light and then I saw like peripheral like lights coming in the TV, I couldn't even see the TV because it was just like, it was just light. Like and the overwhelming sound, that kind of like drone, the weird sort of like droning buzzing sound. Yeah.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's always there. It's weird. Terrence used to say that he thinks that's the sound that carries you in. That it it it kind of, it coats everything in the right frequency so you can go there. It's almost like it vibrates your body in the right frequency so you can in in fact experience it. So if we're a level of frequencies, right? And then you can perceive things on different frequencies. It's almost like it brings you to the right frequency to see that.

• 3:59Danny Jones?

  Is there any other drug you can take where everyone experiences the same things or very, very similar things?

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Not to this extent, no. But I don't know if you know this, but uh, so when Dennis and Terrence, Dennis and Terrence McKenna, when they went to La Chorrera when they were, well, I think 18 and 23, something like that. They did this experiment in La Chorrera. There's, Terrence wrote a book about it. Dennis just released a book about it. And the experiment was around, well, a few parameters, but the sound was one of them. Then it said that if you can, what he thought, and you know, it's a little bit more complicated to go into the details of exactly what he thought there, but the gist of it was if

• 4:46Speaker 01

  you can bring about the sound with your voice while this is happening to you inside, there's, there's an alignment that's supposed to happen, it's supposed to do something. That's what they were trying to do. So he was trying to mimic the sound that you just

• 5:00Danny Jones?

  With his own voice.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  With his own voice. And he was trying to like go through all the octaves and like find it exactly. And yeah, yeah, it's fascinating.

• 5:08Danny Jones?

  So there's like a, the idea is if you can do that while you're not on DMT?

• 5:13Speaker 01

  No, no, while you're on.

• 5:14Danny Jones?

  While you're doing it.

• 5:15Speaker 01

  They were doing very strong mushrooms, Triferia cubensis, but those were strong enough to produce the sound. You can get strong enough mushrooms that would give you the sound.

• 5:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:27Danny Jones?

  And how is that different from ayahuasca?

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Ayahuasca is basically DMT coded with a different plant, I forget the name of it right now, which basically allows you to ingest it. Because DMT, if you just swallow it, nothing happens. With ayahuasca, when you, you know, you ingest it, you digest it basically for like five to six hours.

• 5:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and it lasts for a long time, right?

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Right. But if you're asking about the first person experience of it, I always describe it as the human channel. So like what you saw yesterday was kind of like the main artery. It's just everything, right? Ayahuasca is everything about humans. So it's just, like I said, it's much more carnal. It's much more, I always say, and this is actually, I think I, I think I stole this from Terrence, to be honest, but he was saying it's much more carnal, it's much more kind of like the earth and the rivers and the human drama, like that kind of stuff. It's much more what it means to be a human on earth.

• 6:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  It's that channel. So there's a lot of wisdom in there. That's why people find it so therapeutic, I think, because it's, it's the ultimate context of what it's possible, what is possible for a human. Like, for example, I had the experience of what is the ultimate father? One, one time. So it's almost like it showed me what is this perfect archetype of a father, what that means. And the gist of it was.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  It's the your father will the the perfect father will let you as as a male would let you go full throttle, make all your mistakes. So you so you learn how to be a man, how to all of that. But then if you can't go on any longer, he got you.

• 7:16Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  That's the ultimate father.

• 7:18Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, he will never let you fall.

• 7:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's got to be so much different when you're when you're stuck there for hours and you have to face it and you can't escape, right?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  That's a that's a separate subject with, yeah.

• 7:29Danny Jones?

  At least last night, like, I knew this was gonna be over like very soon. But with when you're doing it with ayahuasca and you're where wherever in the jungle and you're gonna be dealing with this for three or four or five hours, that's a totally different beast.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but look, with ayahuasca, this is why you do it with guidance.

• 7:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  I mean, some people do it without, which I don't recommend, but I think you're right. There's a big difference between experiencing this for five minutes and experiencing something like that and then something going a little bit sideways. And then you're stuck in that sideways.

• 7:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  For our that can actually do some damage, yeah.

• 8:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Nick, yeah, like, my biggest fear is is actually meeting the devil.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Interesting. Why why is that?

• 8:07Danny Jones?

  Just when I say meeting the devil, I mean, just like confronting my deepest, darkest thoughts or like the deepest, darkest um potential realities. You know, like, like Mike was explaining last night when he accidentally ate those four cookies, he said that he was just like in the fetal position in the corner of his hotel room for like eight hours and just thinking about all like the worst case scenario about everything, you know, just like in this state of fear constantly. And that's what that's what I always go to when I get go too far on like a marijuana gummy.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Interesting, so let's click on this for a second. Do you did you come from a religious background like your parents?

• 8:47Danny Jones?

  No.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  So you mean the devil metaphorically, or you mean actually?

• 8:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I don't mean like meet Satan. I mean, I mean, just like, just go to a place that is what I would imagine hell is.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that, yeah, that's a, that's a, that's an interesting thing because not a lot of people have this particular fear. People have like a specific, you know, they're afraid of snakes. Like they have a very specific fear, right? Yours is much more general about suffering in general, it sounds.

• 9:18Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:19Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Which is very interesting because it's a very deep archetypical component of, of that space. Because ultimately, if you look at, for example, what the Buddha discovered, right? His whole teaching was around, what you want to do is, the way he called it, is get out of the house. So get out of the reincarnation cycle. And he emphasized that you want to do that no matter what. So that's the only thing he ever emphasized from a metaphysical perspective.

• 9:52Danny Jones?

  Out of the incarnation cycle?

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Reincarnation cycle.

• 9:55Danny Jones?

  The reincarnation?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:57Danny Jones?

  What do you know about that?

• 9:57Speaker 01

  So we reincarnate, according to the, you know, to the belief. And basically what happens is that the reason you're in the cycle is because of attachment. So the attachment is the fuel that keeps you in the cycle. And attachment to even form in general, like even if you're, you know, kind of liberated and you no longer need much in life and all of that, you still have an attachment to form because you are a form.

• 10:24Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  So the idea is that you're supposed to get to a place where you're so, the, the non-attachment is so complete that in the moment that you die, there's not enough

• 10:38Speaker 01

  grass grabbing power to keep you within the cycle. So you don't, you can't reincarnate anymore. You're just Nirvana. Just because you get out of the house. It's out. There's no more reincarnation for you. That's it. What's interesting, though, the reason I mentioned this, is because he said it doesn't actually matter if you're at the depths of, of hell or in the highest of possible places of bliss. It's exactly the same.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, because he said that even if you are so according to the Buddhist belief, there are, you know, all the, I think there's like seven layers of hell. There's like, I don't remember how many layers of heavens. But even if you're in the highest of heavens and you're the ultimate being there, which I guess what we in our Western world would call the God Almighty, right? You're still, still within the cycle. You're still in the house, which means that eventually, even if you spend, I don't know, 30 trillion years in ultimate bliss, you burn so much good karma that you might actually drop to the lowest of hell still. And because it's infinite, the only way out is out of the house.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  So it's interesting that you mentioned that because the ultimate, the ultimate way out is to just understand that it's all the same. And, and it doesn't really matter how much bliss you feel or how much suffering you feel. If you can just truly accept the present moment, which is what the now is.

• 12:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  If you can truly be it, you, you're invincible. Like that, that's, that's the only thing that you should care about ever.

• 12:17Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, that was another, another weird thing that I felt last night right after I got blasted out of my body, after my soul blasted out of my carcass, was that was the, like the feeling of losing touch with everything in reality, like losing touch with like everything I'm attached to in the real world. Right. And just like having the very core of my existence just catapulted through the universe. That was, it was such a wild, wild experience.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  How real it feels, right?

• 12:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, okay, so to open this up, you have basically found a tear in the fabric of reality. You found a way under the map, so as people that play video games would say.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  I get that's a really good way of putting it, yeah.

• 13:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:11Danny Jones?

  Can you, first of all, explain exactly what you discovered and how you discovered it? And then we'll kind of like, we'll sum that up, then we'll like, start from the beginning.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 13:22Danny Jones?

  And then go through like a linear fashion of how this all happened.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Okay, so in short, I basically discovered that there is a way. There's this phenomenon on DMT that a lot of people experiencing similar things. Emphasis on similar, like very similar, but similar. And I asked, because I I've done it so many times, I asked myself, okay, wait a second. I don't think there's any possibility at this point for me to believe that this is somehow mind-made, whatever we call mind-made, right?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  And then I asked myself, okay, well, if this, if the space is real, is there anything we can do to prove that it's real? And one of the first things that came to mind is like, well, if we can find something that is exactly the same in that space for everybody, that puts us in a good place to start talking about it.

• 14:09Danny Jones?

  Like a repeatable experiment?

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Well, repeatable experiment would be the thing that would show you that it's the same. I'm saying, yeah, can we find that one thing in some way that is the same for everybody? That was the thought. It took me years to figure it out, and we can talk about the details of how I figured it out at the end, but this one component, which essentially is what I discovered, if you projected diffracted laser on the surface, which just means a band of a laser, just like, you know, the thing that scans barcodes in a, in a, in a supermarket, and you smoke DMT, you will see code running in the surface that you're projecting the laser on.

• 14:48Danny Jones?

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• 15:32Danny Jones?

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• 16:17Danny Jones?

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• 16:59Speaker 01

  And this basically is the same for every single person. They see, in the beginning, they kind of see similar, like they see some structures, they see some movement, they see something kind of like there. But then eventually they drop into the space where they just see the same thing. And we can sit in a room, I had 15 people in a room at the same time, talking about it, pointing to it, you can literally talk about it like you talk about a regular object in a room. This is how coherent it is. That's the gist of what I found.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  And how many people have you shown this to that have seen it?

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Me personally, hundreds of people, I know of, I keep saying at least over a thousand, that I just, I just want it to be, you know, as concrete as possible. So I, I counted, like how many people reached out and told me, this is how many people I showed, this is how many people saw it. So I calculated all of that. It was, at that point, it was like 980 people.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  So this was five months ago, so I'm pretty sure, there's like, at this point, it's kind of like this little subcultural thing and people just, there's communities are forming around it. People kind of talk about it, all that stuff, yeah, so.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  I think this would be a good point. Maybe we should show the trailer.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Let's, let's show that to people. Steve, can you pull it up? It's called The Discovery, right? Just type in The Discovery DMT on YouTube, you'll find it.

• 18:14Danny Jones?

  All right, let's see what we got here.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  All right, full screen that bad boy.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  By the way, I want to mention that, pause for a second, I'm sorry. I, I just want to mention that the director of this trailer and the film we're working on is Aaron Vanden. He's, truly is incredible. He came up with this thing in less than a week. It's just unbelievable. I, I think where credit is due, credit is due, and it's very important to mention.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Shout out to Aaron.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:38Danny Jones?

  All right, here we go.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  I remember things very vividly from a very young age.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  When I was a little kid, I actually spent a lot of time with my grandparents. My grandfather was a nuclear physicist.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  I remember he was telling me about black holes.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  And that terrified me. I was like, "That's just mind-boggling." It's a monster, right? But at the same time, it fascinated me.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  And I said to myself, "How do we know that? This unthinkably massive thing." I realized that

• 19:33Speaker 01

  nature doesn't keep secrets.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  It's only a matter of, "Do we understand it?"

• 19:41Speaker 01

  What tools can we use to expand our knowledge?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  And for me,

• 19:50Speaker 01

  dimethyltryptamine, also known as DMT,

• 19:55Speaker 01

  was the tool that led me to the discovery.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  When I first saw the phenomenon, I was like, "Holy shit!"

• 20:16Speaker 01

  But then it was actually like, "Whoa. What is happening?" Am I losing my mind?

• 20:26Speaker 01

  But then I showed other people, and things kept getting weirder.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Just for the record, I haven't told him anything. Okay, just tell me what you see. Oh my god, come on. Oh my god, fuck. Holy shit.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  I just saw something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What the fuck? Oh, I've seen that! And feel it!

• 20:55Speaker 02

  I've been under the influence of mind-altering substances a lot, but I've never seen anything like that.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  I showed over a hundred people and I kept asking myself, "How are all of us seeing the same thing?"

• 21:12Speaker 04

  Oh my god, it changing shapes, right there.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  The laser was revealing numbers and letters, running in a pattern.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  It looks like this big here, and it looks like code.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  It looked like-

• 21:27Danny Jones?

  That was a thick laser.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  That's why I told you.

• 21:30Speaker 04

  And I just wanna take a picture of it and sun it.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Do you see that?

• 21:37Speaker 02

  Okay, so yeah, it's not stuck.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  No.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  It's not because of the light.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  No, it's on its own side. Light is just literally revealing it.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  And each angle shows you different layers, different ways through it. I could see through the wall. It's not like a hallucination. It has spatial awareness and permanence. I don't know. Whoa.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  For centuries mankind has attempted to explore these psychedelic altered states, but we've never had a repeatable, testable phenomenon to observe, until now.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 22:09Speaker 04

  I'm obsessed.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  It's like you could see through the laser into another dimension.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  I mean, like, take yourself to that. Like, I just made a connection that nobody made before, which is a simple connection.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  The claim is, if you project a defracted laser on the surface, and you smoke DMT, you will see code running in surfaces. Yes, like in The Matrix.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  So there are a few possibilities. One, I lost my mind, which is the coolest losing your mind ever in history. The second option is that this is the biggest discovery of humankind. If anybody ever asked themselves what it would be like to know you live in The Matrix for sure, well, I know for sure, I'm convinced. So where do we go from here? All I know is... It's about to get crazy.

• 23:25Danny Jones?

  So what gave you the idea to throw this, first of all, create this defracted laser and shine it on the wall while you were on DMT?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Well, that's what the movie is gonna be depicting, basically. A lot of it is, what are the moves that I had to take to kind of figure it out? It took years.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  Basically, so the question of whether this space is real is not the first time that anybody's asking this question. As you, of course, know, because you had people on the podcast like Gallimore that are literally involved directly with these investigations on a scale of like actually putting it in a lab and, you know.

• 24:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  So that question is already out there. I actually wasn't aware that more serious people are asking this question when I asked myself that question.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I just had a set of experiences that were so real. So like everything you experienced yesterday, I've had it for years, right?

• 24:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Then I had a set of experiences that was one level above that, if you can imagine that, which is, it just became like my regular space. So I came back from, actually, a meditation retreat, and I always say I'm not sure it's necessarily related, but that's how it happened chronologically, and something tells me that maybe there's something there, maybe there was something about the, I was aligned enough, pure enough, I have no idea. But basically, I was called to smoke it and smoked a bunch of it. And then I realized after about 45 minutes that I was just staring at the ceiling, nothing happened. Now, that's impossible, right? I smoked a bunch of it, and then I realized, oh, nothing happened.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Now, there's a phenomenon on DMT called a whiteout, which is that if you smoke too much, you don't even realize you went. Like you just have a complete, like you don't even realize that anything happened. Is it possible that that's what happened? Sure. I can't know. But I think I know the space enough to say, I don't think so. I think it was just like, nothing happened. And then, after 45 minutes...

• 25:27Speaker 01

  I had this thought, which is something that Terrence McKenna said one in one of, once in one of his talks. He was talking about mushrooms. But he said, this is not a drug. This is an alien disguising as a drug. And then I thought, wait, what, what if it's actually not kind of, or a metaphor? What if it's actually aliens talking to us through these molecules through the mind space, which is somehow the real space? Like, what if the mind is the real space? And this is all just like kind of a reflection of everything? So then the second I thought that, you know how you have this dial in your brain responsible for how seriously you take a proposition? Like, there's a difference between thinking there's a fire in the house and knowing there's a fire in the house.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  There's an emotional response attached to the second proposition, right? You're like, oh yeah, we gotta get the fuck out of here.

• 26:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  So the proposition, is this an actual alien civilization? Went to full red in my head for a second. Like, I was just convinced of that. Like, the state that I occupied with my presence was just like, oh, this is an alien civilization talking to us. Now, I had this thought after forty-five minutes of the smoking DMT. I did not smoke anymore. In that instance, everything fleshed white. I didn't smoke anymore. I don't even know how that's possible. Everything just fleshed white, like everything. And I heard whispers all over the room. It's like, ah, he's paying attention. What do we say? Now, it wasn't English, but it was, I understood that that's what it was, right?

• 26:56Speaker 01

  I was like, and then a frog dude appeared right next to me, next to my bed. And he was as real as you. He was tangible. He was coherent, in space, standing.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  And in that moment, I was like, okay, I think I really did it this time. I was like. I was just staring at it. I was like, and then he basically, the whole room pointed at my guitar. And I, I was like, oh, they want to communicate to like music theory or whatever. I was like, I'm just practicing. I don't know anything about that. They're like, just go to the guitar. So got up, went to the guitar, pick up the guitar. He disappears from one side of the room and appears right next to me, like in the speed of light, just like right next to me. And he puts his frog fingers where I'm supposed to strum and, you know, do the chords. Yeah. And he's like, do this. And I was like, and I'm trying to follow and I'm, you know, I'm still like all shaken up. Yeah.

• 27:52Speaker 01

  And I'm like, so I'm trying to do this. And all of a sudden, a melody starts to come on, like, like actual music. Uh, slow, because I'm following slowly, but it's like, clearly this is a thing, right? And he's like, you don't know how to do this. I'm telling you how to do this. This is real information. I'm real. And I was like,

• 28:15Speaker 01

  I, I was just frozen. I was like, oh my God. And then in that instance, the, the only thing that came out, I just exclaimed, in the other room, I had an Airbnb guest. Uh, I was renting out the other room. It was a PhD postdoc. Uh, because I lived right next to UCLA from Italy. His name was Marco. And I just exclaimed his name because I, I was just like, Marco! And it was like 2 AM. So luckily he didn't get up, you know, because I always say like, what, what, what would I tell him? That a frog dude from another dimension taught me how to play the guitar, right? So then I was like, okay. So then he didn't wake up. I called my best friend. He came over. I was like, you gotta get here right now. He came over.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  And I told him what happened. And I'm like, you don't understand. This is real. And he goes like, and now, this, this guy, we've, we've done everything together. Like we've, we've went really wild, did a bunch of things. So he's not new to this, right?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  And even he looked at me and went, I think you need to lay down. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. This is real. And he's like, he just couldn't, he couldn't, like, he couldn't accept that. So then, from that moment on, when I started doing DMT, it was like, literally like a phone call. Like, I would, I would do it, and they would just appear. Not always like that frog dude, but they would be very coherent in space, and they would like, explain things to me, talk to me. And I was like, this is insane. Like, and this was going on for like, a year, right? And then I realized, I started reading online, and I found that this is a thing. Like, some people experience this new level of like, talking to aliens, like, they always come to them, like, all that stuff. In fact, there was this one case that I always mention, because it was really funny to me.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Here in Florida, uh, there was this guy, uh, who was a therapist, and this started happening to him. Which is like, he started talking to aliens on DMT, and he just dropped everything. He just did that full-time. And eventually he had to go-

• 30:09Danny Jones?

  Quit his job?

• 30:10Speaker 01

  I don't know if he quit his job, but he just stopped doing everything he was doing. And then eventually, he himself had to go to a shrink.

• 30:17Danny Jones?

  Oh my-

• 30:18Speaker 01

  And then the other guy told him, okay, listen, you're not talking to aliens, you gotta stop doing that, right? Um, but, the funny thing is, he was talking to aliens. That was real. It's just that, we don't know what to do with that. Which is, kind of like, where I landed, after about a year of this. I was like, okay, how do we prove this? You know, I was trying to ask them. People ask me, who is them? Well, people like that frog dude, like, whomever that is, right? And, uh, it was very, always very esoteric. It was never something that was applicable to our space. It was like, oh, when we jump into your body, and you do this, the whole room folds in half. Great, what do I do with that, right? So, um, eventually, I just kind of said, okay, cool. Like, I'll come visit, but that's about as far as I can go with this, because I, you know.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Now luckily, it didn't actually really infringe itself too much into my regular life. I just kept on doing everything I was doing. But yeah, at a certain point, I had to kind of let, let it go. And then, that was the beginning of all of this, and eventually, because I kept on thinking about this, like, how do we prove this? And this is what the movie is going to be about. Things started happening to me, like hints that would appear, things that would, you know, show up at the right time. And I just eventually kind of was the lead to this conclusion that if you project this laser, something is supposed to happen.

• 31:35Danny Jones?

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• 32:55Speaker 01

  So it started with this initiation of like a very realistic set of experiences that I put it beyond any shadow of possibility that this is real. Followed by years of kind of following this weird intuition, coupled with my technical understanding of the world, right? So I have, you know, I have some understanding of what we know in physics. And I'm like, okay, well, what can it be? And I started thinking that direction. And when I would reach a certain kind of fork in the road, there would be something that would happen that would definitely not, you wouldn't be able to fold this into like a, you know, a methodology, scientific methodology, because it was like an intuitive thing. It's like, well, I saw these numbers, they mean this thing. It's more kind of like a long Charlie Day in a basement, just connecting dots kind of thing, right?

• 33:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  But then. Something would happen there that I felt that was concrete enough and I would follow that and then I would connect other things that I know and I would follow that. So the whole time I was doing that, it's just a game I'm playing. Like it was never serious. It was never like, I never put it in the forefront of like, I'm figuring out the secrets of the universe. It's like, you just do your thing and that thing happens, great. So, you know, it was a fun game. And one day, um, we were walking in, uh, we were in the botanical gardens in Colorado with my now fiancee. And we're talking about, I told her about a lot of this stuff. And then she, you know, well, she's like, all right, cool. Like, what do you do with that? Right?

• 34:25Speaker 01

  And then we started talking about why plants are green. We started talking about like the fact that, you know, plants reject green, that's the only color they don't use, that's why they're green. And then I asked why some color, why some plants are red? And she said, well, I think maybe that's because they reject red. I'm like, okay, why do they reject red? They reject green, like, that's not clear. So we're talking about this stuff. And there was a moment where we stepped outside that, so I told her that also the number forty-two started following me everywhere. Okay, so that this is

• 34:57Danny Jones?

  The number forty-two?

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there's a lot of components, this is why we're making a whole film about it. So I'm trying to like, keep the story coherent. Um, and this is one of these things, okay, so this is actually important to unpack because I'm trying to kind of, uh, you know, get through the story quickly, but I think it's important to unpack.

• 35:12Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  So, numbers that would appear for you, right? People see, you know, one, one, one on clocks, things like that, right? It's a, it's a little flimsy because the clock does show one, one, one and one, one, one, one, like four times a day, right? So

• 35:30Danny Jones?

  You know about people who experience this thing where they see, always see the same numbers all the time everywhere they go?

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 35:35Danny Jones?

  There's something significant that happens in their lives where there's, there's a number correlated with it and then somehow that follows them for the rest of their lives everywhere they go.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Something like that, yeah. No, there, there is this thing, right, in the brain where if you start paying attention to something, all of a sudden you see it everywhere.

• 35:48Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Just like when you buy a new car.

• 35:50Danny Jones?

  Exactly, yep.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Right. So because of that, uh, all of these instances of people that follow these like, uh, very really like simple things like seeing something on the clock, right? That's not enough. That's like, okay, again, it appears four times a day, now your brain is looking for it. It's easy to explain this away, right? When I'm saying the number, like the number forty-two would appear for me, it wasn't like that. It was in instances that just like way beyond the possibility of just like a statistical fluke, right? So basically, one example would be like I would be thinking about this subject. And I would be in traffic and I would lift my head and I would see a truck right in front of me. And it would be so dirty, like all muddy.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  And it would be one tiny area where just wiped clean. And with a forty-two written with a sharpie on the back window, like things like this. It's a little bit different, right? That still can be said, okay, well, you know, maybe your eyes saw a lot of numbers in that moment. And only when it lands on that, that's when you register. I accept that, that's fine. But the first hint that did appear for me, which is something that I didn't tell you yet. But the first hint that appeared for me was the, these numbers on the floor, you know, the Department of Water and Power, they write these numbers on the, on the ground. You familiar with that?

• 37:11Danny Jones?

  No.

• 37:12Speaker 01

  So Department of Water and Power, they write things, you'll notice it that now that I told you, you'll notice it. Sometimes on the, on the pavement, you'll see like random numbers written down with, with like a, almost like a spray or something.

• 37:23Danny Jones?

  Oh, like on the sidewalks?

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 37:25Danny Jones?

  Yes, okay, yeah, yeah.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  They represent what kind of power lines or water lines go through that thing. Okay, so I'm an editor and I was working on a music video and I couldn't fix a color problem for hours. So I decided to take a break and went on a stroll. It was the middle of the night. I went to Ralph's to get a sandwich. It was right next to Pierce College. I walk around and I'm thinking about this subject, which is every once in a while I would think about it like, how, how do we prove that this space is real? One of the things that was very clear to me is that light had to be involved. And I knew, because you can see it with your eyes. And I knew that there's supposed to be some kind of an entry point to the space in which we're supposed to all see the same thing, which is what I told you in the beginning. If it's not clear, you can stop me at any point. Okay. Okay, even if the space is infinite, we all sometimes experience it and sometimes don't experience it. Right?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  That means that we entered the space somehow. Something happens and then you're aware of it. Right? So there's an entry point in which it's supposed to be the same for everybody. At least that was my conviction or my thought. Right? So then I knew light was involved. So what I was thinking about was the double slit experiment. Hmm. Specifically in the context of quantum computers and how they work. And the fact that something happens when decoherence happens in the double slit experiment is that right before the particle decoheres from the wave function and becomes part of, you know, whatever is real, or at least according to the many worlds interpretation, it basically interacts with all the instances of itself across all the parallel universes. Now, this sounds highly theoretical.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  However, the only reason that quantum computers work is because this is a fact. Okay, so this is not enough people talking about it, but according to David Deutsch, who also is the father of the Deutsch equations, who actually made quantum computers possible. So he definitely knows what he's talking about. That's the only coherent interpretation of what's going on, which is that the reason that quantum computers work, which is, you know, you can make these enormous calculations in an instance. You know anything about quantum computers? Yeah, I know a little bit about them, yep. Is because we literally distribute the computation power across all the worlds. So all the adjacent parallel universes to you are doing the exact same calculation as you are in that instance. And then you have an equation that helps you understand what part of the sliver of

• 39:41Speaker 01

  possibilities of it occurring this way, you are. And that's what allows you to do the calculation. But the important thing for our story is that basically the fact that quantum computers work tell you that the possibility that parallel universes are real, it makes it a very, very real possibility. And that's what I was thinking about. And then I noticed that the stoplight, the way that it was changing colors, looked different from each color. It was the middle of the night, so I had not a lot of things to pay attention to. So I noticed that when it changes from green to red to yellow, the way that the light is distributed on the edges, if you squint your eyes a little bit, looks different. It's like a different pattern. Now, I knew that there's a lot of possible explanations here. Maybe the glass sits a little different. Maybe they use a different glass for each color.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  Who knows, right? But the second I thought that... In the context of the double slit experiment and how light behaves, I thought, would it be possible to utilize these properties to communicate between the worlds? Would it be possible to send a signal, just like when the computers work, to actually send some kind of a signal between the worlds? And when I thought that, I had this very strong sense in me that told me, yes, look there. It was like, almost like a person told me that. Now, I wasn't on any substance. I was just walking around and it was like, yes, look there. I was like, okay. The second I thought that, I looked down and I see these numbers from the Department of Water and Power. And what was interesting about this particular, these particular sets of numbers,

• 41:08Speaker 01

  because to the left of them, there was a line with a circle with a line through it, which kind of made it look like a, like a editing software, like Premiere or something, where you move the dial. So I thought, oh, wouldn't it be cool if this number just matches some kind of a LOT number I have? You know, that will fix my color problem?

• 41:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  But then I was like, ah, then I walked away, went, got my sandwich, came back. Coming back, I'm looking, coming from the other side of the street, I'm looking to the other side, I'm like, looked around, nobody around, nobody's gonna see me do this. Fuck it, just go take a picture of it. Cause I felt like it was insane, right? Why would I do that, right? So I took a picture, went back home, put in the numbers in Spotlight. Now, this is important because I didn't Google anything. I just literally, you know, Spotlight on a Mac, the way it works is look through your computer and then it looks to the web. At the same time. Spotlight is like the search engine on a Mac.

• 42:05Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, you just, you're basically just, it's like a general search.

• 42:08Danny Jones?

  I've never even heard of that.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Really? Uh, command space.

• 42:10Danny Jones?

  Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, like the finder thing. Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  Well, Spotlight is kind of like, uh, it's more like the general one. Yeah, yeah.

• 42:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, got it.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  And I'm actually, I'm not sure that the finder searches through the web. I think Spotlight also searches through the web. I'm not sure, but yeah.

• 42:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you're probably right about that.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  So basically, so it's a series of six random numbers is all I put in. And I took a picture of that, thank goodness, because I don't think anybody would believe me. So I took, so I just put a six random numbers. Now, think about this, it searches through both the web and the computer. What are the chances, even if it doesn't find anything of these exact six numbers, it would give you something adjacent? Some file with numbers that are kind of close to that. It would give you something, right? Maybe it'll give you five, six options.

• 42:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Give me one option, and it was not on my computer. I found something on the web from the entire internet. And it was a number that matched research paper, a physics research paper, a physics research paper by CERN, searching for particles outside of the standard model, a year after the discovery of the Higgs boson particle. So I'm sitting there.

• 43:23Danny Jones?

  Like, what was this number? You still have the photo?

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll show you right now. So these are the original numbers.

• 43:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Okay, 081802.

• 43:39Danny Jones?

  081802.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  And, and, and notice something about the second number. It kind of looks like 081801, and the only reason you think that is because the first number is, the second number of the first number is eight, right? So you would think it would be consecutive.

• 43:59Danny Jones?

  The second one looks like 03.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. So it either looks 03 or 05 even maybe. But because the first number is 081802, you think maybe it's 081801, right? So anyways, I searched the first one. Doesn't even matter about the second one right now.

• 44:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  You see what I meant by the circle with the line through it? It kind of looks like a dial?

• 44:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  So then, I'm searching through the web. This is what I got. And this is actually, it's funny because it's like, this is still the music video I'm working on in the background premiere.

• 44:25Danny Jones?

  Steven, can you punch that number into your spotlight and see what happens?

• 44:29Speaker 05

  Uh, what, what's the number?

• 44:31Speaker 01

  081802. Now, it, it also changes according to a computer into the person and everything, but let's, it's interesting. Let's find out.

• 44:37Danny Jones?

  081802.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  802.

• 44:39Speaker 05

  Alright, so, 08.

• 44:42Speaker 01

  No, no, no, not in Google.

• 44:44Danny Jones?

  Not in Google.

• 44:45Speaker 05

  Oh, I am on a Mac. That's right.

• 44:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's a magnifying glass.

• 44:47Speaker 05

  Command space, yeah?

• 44:49Danny Jones?

  There you go.

• 44:49Speaker 05

  Spotlight, okay.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  081802.

• 44:52Speaker 05

  081802. Okay, search. Hex color? It's a hexadesc.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  No, see, mine didn't come up with a hex color, which is interesting.

• 45:05Speaker 05

  Let me see here. Can I zoom in on that?

• 45:07Danny Jones?

  Search the web. Search the web. Related searches on the bottom.

• 45:13Speaker 05

  Oh, I jumped off.

• 45:16Speaker 05

  Gasket number?

• 45:17Danny Jones?

  Is that it? The second one? American Physical Society?

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Present this one?

• 45:22Danny Jones?

  Abstracted prospect and stereo collaborations present?

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Well, but click on it. Let's see what the paper actually is.

• 45:31Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 45:35Speaker 05

  Stereo collaborations, combined measurement, pure.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  What year is this? 2022. So this one was from 2015.

• 45:45Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  So first of all, it is interesting.

• 45:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Because it also changes from person to person from time to time.

• 45:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Because it depends on a lot of different factors, the way it searches. But that's, that's why I took a picture of this.

• 45:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Because this, you can't fake this, right? It's just what it was.

• 46:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Okay, so then the only other option was the calculator, which is not an option, right? And then this was the only other one.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  For me, in that instance, that's the only thing that came up.

• 46:10Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  So now I have to be honest, like the paper itself, it wasn't clear to me in the beginning, like what, what is even the connection? Because it was, I mean, the fact that it was in physics just blew my mind.

• 46:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  It was CERN blew my mind.

• 46:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  But other than that, I couldn't really, the name of the paper, if you want to pull the actual paper, is search for Higgs boson pair production.

• 46:28Speaker 05

  I found it.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  There, oh, there you go.

• 46:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 46:30Speaker 05

  There it is.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 46:31Danny Jones?

  Look at that. 081802.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:35Danny Jones?

  Oh, this one's, this one's published 2022, though.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  So they do, uh, the same paper. They do like, uh, like another version of it.

• 46:43Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  So it's kind of like based on, and then they do the, from what I understand, that's how they do it.

• 46:48Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Right. So we probably need a physicist to actually tell us exactly why they do it this way.

• 46:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. But.

• 46:53Danny Jones?

  So what are they, what is the significance of this paper?

• 46:56Speaker 01

  So actually, there was no significance to this particular paper as far as results. The gist of it was that they were searching, they were trying to see if there are any particles outside of what we know with higher energies outside of the standard model, which is the accepted zoo of all particles that we know about.

• 47:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  They found nothing, according to the paper. Okay, further research required, all that stuff. But there was, and this is what we're kind of approaching in the film too, there was some things in the paper, which right now I'm actually in the process of going through, re, trying to remember exactly what the trajectory was. But there was something in it, I think that's something that led me to. And remember in this one what it was anyways, we'll approach it in the film. But there was, that's what I mean by the Charlie Day looking in a basement. Like sometimes it's like a split second that you see another thing here and then you go to another thing.

• 47:46Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  If you, what's interesting and we can keep testing this if you want. If you do zero eight one eight oh one, which is the other number. Or what you would think the other number would be.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Eight oh one.

• 47:59Danny Jones?

  Eight oh one. Search.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Go down, see if the, what other physics paper we have. You can just do, at this point, just, because I don't know if the same, yeah, you have a lot of, just do physics. Just do physics, so it will be easier for us.

• 48:13Danny Jones?

  Physics.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Uh, paper, maybe right, paper.

• 48:19Danny Jones?

  Physics topics.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  That should be it, yeah.

• 48:22Danny Jones?

  Physical.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Well, this can't be, this can't be because 2024 is from this, yeah. But, but it's probably also revamping of the older papers.

• 48:29Danny Jones?

  Right. Try it.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, let's try it. Let's go through this.

• 48:32Danny Jones?

  Two body invariant mass distributions using unsupervised machine learning.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  So this is already something much newer. Back then, you didn't have the, all the stuff about machine learning.

• 48:41Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 48:42Speaker 01

  Right. But, uh, so I saved all these papers. It's actually on my, on my Mac, if you want, I can actually pull it up.

• 48:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  I have all these papers saved by these numbers. I want, I want you to try something.

• 48:53Danny Jones?

  Steve will find it.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Huh?

• 48:54Danny Jones?

  Steve will find it.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  Okay, cool.

• 48:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, what other word would I?

• 48:58Speaker 01

  No, no, the thing, the problem is that they are of different dates.

• 49:02Danny Jones?

  Steve, if you go down on the right-hand column, are there like older versions of it?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  The oldest one, I think, 2013. I think that was the one that popped up.

• 49:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I looked in the previous one and there's no references to older versions.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:15Speaker 05

  Like sometimes it's at the bottom and sometimes it's not.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Right, okay. Of the eight oh one or eight oh two?

• 49:21Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, like, of this paper, like, because there's multiples, right?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:26Speaker 05

  And, uh, but it just seems like this is the, like this number right here, 128, seems to be like a letter 128 of.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:35Speaker 05

  Whatever this.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Got it. Okay, okay, okay, that actually makes perfect sense. So this is like, uh, almost like addendums.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Got it, okay, great.

• 49:45Danny Jones?

  So maybe that 081804 is like a lot number. And the 128 is just like the like one paper that's a part of it or something.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. Well, to me, to be honest, it was more the the things that have kind of appeared inside. That's why I said, if you're going to try and fold it into like, if you want to try and present this way of figuring things out.

• 50:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  To a scientist, they're going to ask you to leave.

• 50:04Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, because this is not a way to go. I don't, I can't follow that as a scientist and say, okay, I get what your methodology is.

• 50:12Danny Jones?

  Right. You can't say, I saw something spray painted on the ground and I Googled it.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Exactly. It doesn't work. Exactly. But what I discovered, and the reason that I keep mentioning, so I have some friends who are scientists. And they all unanimously, separately, told me, you need to, you need to remove this from your story. Even the people who saw the code, scientists who saw the, it's like, you really need to remove this part from your story. Because it hurts you, your.

• 50:36Danny Jones?

  The spray paint part?

• 50:37Speaker 01

  The spray paint part, and then this whole thing that I'm telling you right now.

• 50:40Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Right. They say it makes you, it immediately makes you tune you out. Like I just, it's automatic. And I get it.

• 50:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  And it is even correct to do in relation, in accordance to what, the way we do things in science.

• 50:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  It has to be repeatable. I have to understand every step of the way of what you've done. And I need to be able to repeat it exactly this way, and I need to be able to extrapolate something universal from it. In other words, you have to explain to me why you think that these specific numbers mean anything. Do you have some kind of a reason to follow these numbers? Like, what is the function behind the fact that you think that these numbers represent something, right? What is the theory behind it? Unless you have that, you just sound like an insane person. And I agree. However, what seems to be the case, and I only much later realized this, is because I think that we understand everything this way. It's just that we usually take the credit for it. So what I mean by that is that.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  We have a set of intuitions that then lands on a particular concreteness of what we understand about the world. But, so you have to have a set of understandings first of like certain things. And then you make extra conjectures on top of that. And he was like, well, what works? This works, this works, this works. You do a lot of guesswork. And then you have a way to test for a particular set of the guessworks that you come up with. So there's one branch that seems to be promising. And then you follow that branch and you test it in the most rigorous ways you can possibly think of. And if something checks out, most of the time, nothing checks out. That's how it works. When something checks out, you're like, ah, great. Okay, I'll follow. And then you build on top of that.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  The fact that something checked out told you that this was the correct direction. But the whole time you were following a thread that was not random, but it was something that you were basically conjuring all the time. You're like, well, what can it mean? There's like this infinite possibility pool, right? And when we dial it into a more, a narrower and narrower channel of guesswork, we call that science. You know what I'm saying? So the difference between a rule of thumb, which is like, I know that when I build a door with this kind of arc without measuring the door. And then you try and like align it as much as possible and eventually it works. You're like, that's a rule of thumb. You're like, well, I kind of know when it looks like, kind of like this.

• 53:05Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  It works, right? And then you can even, you know, you can teach your son this. And then that's basically what an expert back in the day was before we had measurements, right? You're just kind of like, well, I know, I have a feeling that this should work. And then your experience of that door with that arc exactly like that is, right? When we discovered calculations and mathematics and how you measure angles and all that stuff, it stopped being guesswork. It stopped being a rule of thumb. It became more scientific because you can put numbers on it. Okay, so that's really the only difference. It's a major difference, but that's the only difference. Notice that, you know, what people repeat, which is like the double helix of the DNA. Even the one, I think it was the first Intel chip that, that we figured out how to do the exact

• 53:49Speaker 01

  engineering of the, the, the way that the chip is constructed. All of this came, in one case, a dream, the other case is an LSD trip. And this happens all the time. People get these eureka moments out of nowhere.

• 54:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  And they already have a set of experience, a set of expertise. On top of which this now eureka moment comes on top of, and they're like, ah, okay, I get it. Right? So this is important because the reason that I can't remove this from the story is because that's the truth about what put me on the path of searching for that thing. And if I remove this part of the story, I'm lying.

• 54:26Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 54:26Speaker 01

  See what I mean?

• 54:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, and this is a very important clarification because I think that ultimately what matters is if something actually checks out. And because if, if it would lead to nothing, we wouldn't be here talking about this. And I would just go, you know, just keep living my regular life. But because I followed this exact way of trying to do things, that's what eventually led me to the laser. And it, it does put me in a little bit of a hot seat because, you know, again, it's like, it's not clear why this works. If I have to give it my best guess is that there is this actual information of, about how things are that is constantly floating around.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  And we are essentially just picking them up, almost like a radio, right? And then if we can take that and we can apply it to something that works in our space, in our three dimensional space, we call this a discovery. Because it's applicable, it's, you know, functional, you can do something with it, all of that stuff. But ultimately, this, uh, this element of the guesswork is always there. And I, I don't want to minimize it because I think that the intuition part of it is important for something much deeper than we yet to understand, which is our relationship to the world, what is consciousness, how consciousness is, and what it is in relationship to the world. All of these things are very important to consider if we are to understand what the

• 55:57Speaker 01

  world really is.

• 55:59Danny Jones?

  So how did you get from these papers to this defracted laser?

• 56:02Speaker 01

  So, okay, so, so now that I gave us a little bit of the background of this. So this coupled with the number forty-two, it started following me like crazy, right? So we're in these botanical gardens, talking about the plants, why green, why red, blah, blah, blah. Great. Stepping outside, until that point, my, my now fiance, she, she never seen this kind of stuff in action. She only heard me talk about it. She knew enough about me that, that it's fine, she doesn't have to leave me.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  And then we step outside, it was a very hot day, it was like a hundred and fifteen degrees. So I'm calling an Uber to go back to the hotel and she crossed the street to stand under a tree in the shade.

• 56:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Called the Uber, crossed the street, come and I hug her. Oh, and that feeling that I described to you about like, yes, look there? You know, when I, when I thought about that idea and something told me, yes, look in that direction.

• 56:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Okay. The same feeling was in me when we were in the botanical gardens. It was like, yes, look there, whatever it was about colors and plants and whatever that was.

• 57:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  We step outside, called the Uber, she's under a tree, cross the street, come and hug her.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  I hug her, I look down and I'm like, Kelsey, look down.

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• 59:17Speaker 01

  And I still have the picture of her cracking up.

• 59:27Danny Jones?

  The number 42, spray painted right under her feet.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  The same color. The same color. Cause it's not always in this color, what Department of Water and Power writes. The same color.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  And this is now two or three years after, I think.

• 59:44Speaker 01

  So now we follow the street, the number four, I'm not going to do this now, it doesn't matter. But I mean, if somebody wants, I can always email them the pictures, they can verify it. We, we searched and the number 42 repeated twice, like one after another. And there were no other numbers that repeated twice.

• 59:59Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  So what did that tell me? So, okay, so this is a great example. What do you do with this, right? From a scientific perspective, this is one person or two people in this case, having some kind of a joint delusion about something mattering or something meaning something, right?

• 1:00:19Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  But from a first person perspective, I'm aware of all these biases. I'm, I'm, I understand them. Like, I get it, right? And then I, at the same time, I have this thing happening to me constantly, constantly, constantly, constantly. I'm telling it to this other person, which happens to be my loved one. We have this experience together. You can either just say, oh, this was funny and walk away. I'll go, okay, wait a second. What is it telling us? Forty-two following me, follows me every time I'm kind of like on the right track, from what I understand. Great. She's standing on the forty-two. She's a key somehow. She's supposed to help figure this out somehow. That's what I understood. Okay, and we were talking about it together in the botanical gardens.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  I was okay, and then we started, and this is where, again, I'm, I'm gonna disappoint you here because this is still a thing that I'm, I'm going through all my pictures and all my files and trying to figure out exactly what the moves were for the film and all of that. I don't remember exactly right now, but we basically went on this rabbit hole together that whole day. Going through different papers and she's also, uh, she does, she did a lot of research back in college, so she knows how to do this quickly. We're like, you know, we go through all these things.

• 1:01:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  And we land, the, the thing that kept on popping up towards the end was defracted light, defracted light, coherent light. So laser, six hundred fifteen nanometers, six hundred fifteen nanometers. It kept on repeating again and again in different papers that we found. I was like, uh, uh, okay. I didn't know what that meant. But like, I think we're supposed to get a laser. Now, that was during COVID. So you couldn't really get a laser ironically anywhere from other than China.

• 1:01:56Danny Jones?

  So forty-two, you were searching for forty-two and research papers?

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  No, no, no, forty-two was just the sign that you're on the right track. If you want to follow this line of thought.

• 1:02:04Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it, got it.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then we kind of started thinking, I, I started showing her the other papers. And through that together, we started going through all the other papers.

• 1:02:11Danny Jones?

  I see.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Again, not applicable to an actual scientific method, right?

• 1:02:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  But we, we're doing it, we're playing. We reach at the end of this like crazy funnel, whatever that was. We, we reach these conclusions, which is it's supposed to be defracted light, it's supposed to be six hundred fifteen nanometers. Don't know what that means, just order a laser. Cool.

• 1:02:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Can't find a laser, only in China, because it's COVID, ironically.

• 1:02:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  And it took it like three months to get to us because of COVID, right? Everything was backed up. Got to me eventually. And also, the only laser I could get is the ones that you have to kind of like wire and do all that stuff. You can't just get a laser pointer.

• 1:02:47Danny Jones?

  Was nothing like this?

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  Uh, well, this is essentially the same laser inside of the box. It's just that we already put the, the circuit and everything inside.

• 1:02:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but this is what I was, if I show you the original models, they were hilarious. They were like, just looked so janky and crazy. Uh, so anyways, I, I ordered this laser. There you go. That's what it is. This, look at, look at the original beam, how wide it was.

• 1:03:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  See? Um, and this is kind of like first, this is what it looked like. You had to get this, you had to like solder this thing. I tried to put like, uh, uh, uh, microscope lens on top of it. I, I played with all kinds of ideas for it. This is like a really wild one.

• 1:03:26Danny Jones?

  They make those ones at, uh, at Home Depot you can get for people that are like trying to cut stuff.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  You can't use that.

• 1:03:31Danny Jones?

  You can't use that.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  No, most of them are too powerful and they are too narrow and you don't have a way to make it wider.

• 1:03:37Danny Jones?

  Ah.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  So it's too concentrated. You're not going to see anything.

• 1:03:39Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Oh, by the way, I don't want to waste any time on the podcast, but I just, I really want to show you how wild the 42 was. So I don't even know if you will understand what's going on here, but this is me sitting in front of my, on my desk, in front of the window and just working, crossing my legs. And I'm looking in the window. I'm like, wait, what the fuck?

• 1:04:01Speaker 01

  I'll show you.

• 1:04:02Danny Jones?

  What is that you're looking at?

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll show you.

• 1:04:03Danny Jones?

  A piece of luggage?

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  No, no, I'll show you right now. You won't be able to see just by twisting it. I'll show you.

• 1:04:09Danny Jones?

  It's crazy. Like this is, like, we're not talking about like digital clocks, right? This is like, this is what it's reflecting. Look.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  This is a reflection that I'm sitting crossing my legs. That looks like 42.

• 1:04:22Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Look what it actually reflecting.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  This, right?

• 1:04:29Danny Jones?

  Your pants?

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:04:35Danny Jones?

  That's wild.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  So shit like that, right? So then, um, so I ordered the laser, I, you know, it comes. I soldered the thing, I turned it on, I smoked DMT. I see code in the surface. So in that instance, actually, maybe not that seriously, but maybe, maybe a little bit. I thought, oh. It's a schizophrenic outbreak.

• 1:04:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Cause numbers are talking to me. I'm searching for this thing, right? Like, uh, delusions of grandeur, right? And, uh. And now I'm seeing this thing. Also, I was in the beginning of my thirties, maybe like mid thirties, I think it was. So that's kind of the age where it happens, if it happens, you know what I mean? So it kind of matched. Now, I knew myself enough to know that can't be, cause I was, I felt normal. But it was a real possibility that crossed my mind. But then I started showing other people.

• 1:05:31Danny Jones?

  How did you know to get like right up close to the wall and like look into it?

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I just saw it from far away.

• 1:05:35Danny Jones?

  You saw it from far away?

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I just saw it right away.

• 1:05:37Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just saw it right away. It was a little blurry to me. Because I didn't, but I saw something. I saw like these like, like some kind of a letters or code running or something. And I was like, what the? And then I, I already had like a, like a long set of experiences that were very realistic. But that was a different level. That was like a different thing because it just looked normal.

• 1:05:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  And then everybody started seeing the same thing. And. Eventually it just got to a point where I showed like almost a hundred people. It was like eighty something people. And that's when I was like, all right. Then I started emailing scientists. I actually emailed Donald Hoffman, which were, I never get to tell him fully what it is. I mean, I think soon I probably will, but he just was just, uh, going through like a major, some kind of a medical procedure and he was recovering. It was actually, he actually reacted. It was, it responded. It was very nice. But then he was like, well, you know, I'm just recovering right now. And he gave me the list of all his, uh, PhD students is like, here, this is the people that I'm, you know, on the mean and they're very smart people. You should talk to them, whatever you want to say. I felt like I need to talk to him, not to them, but anyways.

• 1:06:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um. So yeah, that, now take yourself through writing that email. What do you say? Right? It's, it's not that easy. It's like, hey, I discovered, you know, there's code in the wall.

• 1:06:54Danny Jones?

  Sure. How many different scientists did you reach out to?

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Maybe four or five. It was, uh.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  It's basically his name right now. Gary Aldman?

• 1:07:04Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Aldman? Yes. Yes. Right? The guy who studies UFOs? Uh, he's a cognitive scientist. Yeah, yeah. Um, and Donald Hoffman. Did I reach out to Bernardo Castrop? I think maybe I have. Uh, Nassim uh, Harman? How do you pronounce his last name? You know? Okay. And

• 1:07:26Danny Jones?

  I know you talked to Gallimore.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  And Gallimore. Yeah. And I think I reached out to Gallimore.

• 1:07:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  And Gallimore I actually met later. Like, okay, she went and met him. He recently was also on my podcast. Uh, super nice guy. And, um, yeah, so these are the people that I reached out. Maybe actually a few more. But the point is that I was trying to basically go through this, you know, like talking to scientists at the same time, showing to people.

• 1:07:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  And then I was like, okay, well, it wasn't really getting a lot of traction. It was just kind of like people.

• 1:07:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah. What were their reaction? What were their initial reactions to it? Uh, You're saying, hey, I smoked DMT. I looked inside this laser and I'm seeing.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  No, I never got to that. I basically told them, look, I have, I have strong reasons to believe, if I remember the wording of the emails, they were along the lines of, I have strong reasons to believe I found something very significant. Oh, I actually reached out to David Deutsch, which was interesting. Yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  And I would love to just take 10 minutes of your time to explain.

• 1:08:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  Something like that. And we never got to the point of like me actually telling them what, what's the process? Yeah.

• 1:08:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  So, uh, it's, it was really interesting because David Deutsch, uh, you know, he's a really known scientist. It's kind of like, like very famous.

• 1:08:32Danny Jones?

  I've heard the name.

• 1:08:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, um, and then I, and he was one of my biggest influences as far as like how to think about things, these things more concretely, but still with an open mind. And, uh, and I reached out on Twitter, now X, and then, and he actually texted me back right away. And he was like, well, uh, you, you're gonna have to make, you make this more publicly known. And I'm sure that others can help you, but at the moment I can't help you. That's what I think. That's what he said, which was interesting. Like, why would you even?

• 1:09:01Danny Jones?

  Is he tied to, uh, like a big academic institution?

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Yes, but I never told them the specifics. I think it's just that I'm not known enough. I don't have like a, like a whole track record of accolades running in front of me. I get it. Like, it's, it's not, it's not, there was no, there was never like, uh, you know, hard feelings. Um, but then I decided, okay, well, this is important. And also, I can't.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  I don't know if I can figure all this out by myself. I need to get people's attention. So the one thing I did know how to do a little bit is to make content. So I was like, well, I'll just make a video about it.

• 1:09:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  And and I it's the only time in my life where I kind of had some respect to authority because I I usually don't have a lot of that. Uh, and I was I basically asked inside the D M T space. I was like, is it okay if I talk about this? And the reaction was.

• 1:09:50Danny Jones?

  Inside the D M T space.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was basically, well, just like the frog dude appears, there's someone there.

• 1:09:55Danny Jones?

  Oh, you went there and you asked him.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, hey, is this okay to talk about this? And the reaction was seemed to be unanimously, oh, this is not like a secret. This is just like. It's there, like, if you can figure it out, you can figure it out. We can't tell you anything, but if you can figure it out, great.

• 1:10:12Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  So then I started talking about it. And at first on YouTube, it didn't really get that much traction, but it got me enough attention from people that started inviting me to like different events to kind of talk about it a little bit. And that's where the journey really kind of started. I went to Costa Rica. I was invited to this event to talk about that. After that, I met a lot of people through that. Uh, started talking about it more, uh, put out the second video, and then eventually somebody convinced me to do a TikTok video. Because I was really not into TikTok. I was, you know. And I didn't know this, but on TikTok, actually, things go viral a lot easier and with a lot bigger scale. And I was, I have to say, I was actually surprised with how well intentioned most people on TikTok are.

• 1:10:55Speaker 01

  So you know that the different platforms, they have like a different vibe of whatever that is.

• 1:10:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  I was really surprised.

• 1:11:01Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. And and and when the first video went viral on TikTok and it went to a few millions. That's when it really kind of started kicking off.

• 1:11:10Danny Jones?

  That's weird, because I've never even thought to engage with any comment or even read any comments on TikTok ever. It's too fast, you know what I mean?

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, and there's a lot of noise, just like everywhere else, especially because you have a lot of interactions. But I found personally the most kind of like balanced interaction of people that are genuinely interested to engage.

• 1:11:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  And with on Reddit, everybody just wants to voice their opinion, right? It's kind of like this very opinionated thing. X is similar, and I guess it's more mainstream.

• 1:11:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  X is almost like a mainstream Reddit, basically. And YouTube is just a longer game. Well, you know, it's a longer, longer arc, right? So you have to really kind of like put in the work and put in the years and eventually the algorithm starts to actually.

• 1:11:50Danny Jones?

  YouTube, the comments on YouTube are more of like a competition of comedy. I've noticed.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 1:11:57Danny Jones?

  You know, because the because the best comments that people like the most go to go to the very top. When you're looking at it.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  Oh, I see, I see. And whoever is the funniest.

• 1:12:04Danny Jones?

  They're ranked from like the most people can relate to it, or maybe the most the funniest.

• 1:12:09Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:12:10Danny Jones?

  So I feel like that's, yeah, you're right, there's a very, a very different sort of attitude and vibe to the comments. Comment sections and the way people engage with those platforms.

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the my surprise was that on TikTok at least, it was the clearly. Where people like truly engaged in a way of like, OK, I what is it like, tell me like, I want to understand. Instead of just immediately vomiting, whatever it is that you think.

• 1:12:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  Of course, there's that as well.

• 1:12:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  But I had a lot of people that genuinely kind of reached out.

• 1:12:36Danny Jones?

  OK.

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  Right. So anyway, so that's that's when I kind of started getting a little bit more traction. And that's, I think it's around the time where Aaron Vanden, the director is now we're working on the film together with. He he reached out because he said that he saw some of my interactions on Reddit. And he liked the way that I was talking to people. So then, so then we, you know, he's like, I want to do something with it. And then a year after that, we met up, we started to kind of reconstructing what all this whole thing is. By then, there was already kind of like this thing going where there was these communities and people were talking about it. And people making lasers and exchanging notes.

• 1:13:10Danny Jones?

  People on Reddit were doing, were trying this experiment on themselves?

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, not just on Reddit, everywhere.

• 1:13:15Danny Jones?

  Everywhere.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think now the reason you and I are talking is because of Aaron's work. Because he put out this trailer on the film that we're working on about this. And that's when I made it just available on YouTube, but I was actually thinking about whether I should put it on Reddit or not. And before I could even decide, somebody, it wasn't me, somebody put it on Reddit. I think when High Strangeness subreddit. And that's when it started blowing up, it just started and it spilled into X and everywhere.

• 1:13:42Danny Jones?

  So. What do you think you're seeing inside that laser? Or what are you seeing, first of all, what does it look like? And what do you think it is?

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  OK, so first of all, you see kind of like, kind of like in the movie, The Matrix. You see Japanese katakana characters mixed up with some, I guess, what looks like Hebrew letters with some with some regular numbers.

• 1:14:02Danny Jones?

  Hebrew letters.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  It again, all of these. These are approximations.

• 1:14:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  They're not any of these things. The closest things it looks like.

• 1:14:10Danny Jones?

  Okay, I see what you're saying.

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Is Japanese and Hebrew and cut and and and numbers.

• 1:14:13Danny Jones?

  Something similar to that.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't. Are you familiar with the I never know how to pronounce it. The Carret Carrot Report? C A R E T, I think it is.

• 1:14:21Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  So somebody put out, yeah, I'll just show you this. Oh, yeah, you can pull it up. Report, I think, or a project.

• 1:14:30Danny Jones?

  What is it?

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  Go down, go down.

• 1:14:34Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. Uh, just do. Ask, ask, uh, do you have chat GPT here?

• 1:14:42Danny Jones?

  No, he can pull it up. Yeah, we have it.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, just ask it. Carrot Report Palo Alto, uh, Alien Drone. It should it should tell you immediately what it is.

• 1:14:51Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay, okay, okay. Carret.

• 1:14:54Speaker 01

  E T.

• 1:14:54Danny Jones?

  Report.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  Report.

• 1:14:56Danny Jones?

  Palo Alto.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  Palo Alto.

• 1:14:57Danny Jones?

  Palo Alto.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Alien Drone.

• 1:15:01Danny Jones?

  Alien. Alien Drone.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's correct. Application research. Yeah, this is.

• 1:15:15Danny Jones?

  Commercial applications research for extraterrestrial technology documents first released online in two thousand and seven by anonymous source known as Isaac. Detailed alleged advanced alien technology supposed to study at the Palo Alto laboratory called P A C L in nineteen eighties. According to Isaac, the Carrot Program focused on reverse engineering alien aircraft to develop civilization, uh, civilian applications from alien technology provided technical illustrations, symbols, descriptions, and anti-gravity drones, quote, that claimed were based on extraterrestrial designs with symbols allegedly functioning as a form of self-executing code embedded in the aircraft's structure.

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:53Danny Jones?

  There's been, um, there's been UFO, um, alleged UFO crashes and debris that have been found that do have inscriptions on them. Have you ever heard of the, um, there's been like UFO crashes? Even Roswell was one of them where they allegedly they have, um, pieces of or debris of these crafts that they're finding that have inscriptions in them.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  I need to see it because I've I people tell me all kinds of things and I just.

• 1:16:21Danny Jones?

  Steve, type in, uh, type in, uh, do another tab, type in Roswell crash.

• 1:16:28Speaker 05

  Raz whale.

• 1:16:30Danny Jones?

  Crash.

• 1:16:31Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:16:32Danny Jones?

  Um, and uh, what would you use symbols? Symbols, yeah, try that. And then go to images. Images. Okay, uh, are these them?

• 1:16:43Speaker 05

  Roswell incident.

• 1:16:44Danny Jones?

  This is not what I remember. Keep going, maybe zoom out.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, so I've seen.

• 1:16:47Danny Jones?

  Okay, yeah, see where that uh, that piece of metal is right there on the bottom?

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  Well, it is, it is like these.

• 1:16:52Danny Jones?

  Okay, so this is similar to what you're seeing?

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  No, it looks like in what you just saw in the carrot report. Very similar to that, if not the same.

• 1:16:59Speaker 05

  Trying to find.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  If you, if you look in the trailer in the beginning, there's a piece of paper.

• 1:17:02Danny Jones?

  Do a freeze frame on the trailer. Yeah, you see the paper. Okay, wow, is it, so this is what you're seeing?

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  No, this is just the.

• 1:17:08Danny Jones?

  Keep going through, you'll see.

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  So, uh, yeah, right there on the left, see on the left?

• 1:17:12Speaker 05

  We'll let it play through.

• 1:17:17Speaker 05

  Gosh, that looks just like Stargate.

• 1:17:18Danny Jones?

  Oh wow, pause.

• 1:17:20Speaker 05

  Uh, as soon as it came into focus.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'll just show you the image.

• 1:17:23Danny Jones?

  He cut it.

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  I have it.

• 1:17:24Speaker 05

  Right there. Oh wow.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  Okay, so this is the image.

• 1:17:28Danny Jones?

  Okay, text it to me and I'll text it to Steve. He can put it on the screen.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:17:31Speaker 05

  Oh, I see. Is you got like a symbol on the left, but then you have like your interpretation here?

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  I'll just, yeah, exactly. I'll just show you the, I'll just send it to Danny right now.

• 1:17:45Speaker 01

  So, the reason I mentioned this is because, to be clear, it was never substantiated if this report was real or fake. Which by the way, if it was fake, it's one of the greatest fakes of all time.

• 1:17:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah. But towards the end, Steve, there's more paper at the end.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  Pull it up right now.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  Almost.

• 1:18:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, so that thing on the left.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  Oh, by the way, I have, uh, I'll also text you all the stuff from carrot, because I have a bunch of the images.

• 1:18:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna text you all of them, so you can later look at them. Uh, do, do, do, do, do. Oh, here it is. Okay, great. So we have everything. Here we go.

• 1:18:26Danny Jones?

  Are you just on WhatsApp?

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's the fastest.

• 1:18:30Danny Jones?

  So, um.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  So, okay, you can pull it up right now.

• 1:18:33Danny Jones?

  Last night after I, uh, after I basically came back into my body after like the most extreme part of that trip, I was kind of like more in reality, things were obviously like I was experiencing more of like a three dimensional world. Edges were crazy. But I wasn't like hallucinating or anything. I wasn't like seeing things moving or whatever. And I went over there and I looked into the laser. And I looked through the laser. And it's clear that you could see a pocket of space. So we shot it on a door, a white door, and behind that door, there was a very obvious pocket of space behind the laser. So I could see like a cavity behind the door. And what I saw was essentially

• 1:19:16Danny Jones?

  the best way I can describe it is like millions and millions of little gears all connected and spinning. And they were almost, they were so tiny, they were like specks, like static. It was like, like a millions and millions and billions of these gears just turning.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:32Danny Jones?

  And all connected to each other.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, so there's a. Okay, so I, I do, okay, I'm. Oh, yeah, I, I have to go into this because, because this is very important.

• 1:19:42Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  So first of all, yeah, if you can, if you can test this to Steve, so we can actually talk about it in real time.

• 1:19:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  So there's two things here.

• 1:19:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  Let's just keep them in view. One is what we're talking about, like what we're seeing inside and what I think it is, which is what I'm going to say now. And then I want to talk about the beginning of what you saw, because it's important to mention all the other to steel man the other side of the argument, because physicists would tell you, well, listen, buddy, this is just the speckle effect. Which is an effect that you can see, which is the same even without any DMT. When you look at the laser, it kind of looks like this glistening thingy.

• 1:20:15Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:20:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  And you can totally imagine how with the very, the heaviest psychedelic known to men. It will come to life.

• 1:20:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:23Speaker 01

  Animated in some form. Okay?

• 1:20:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:24Speaker 01

  Great. So that's, that's a powerful argument. So first of all, this is what we see in the, according to what I'm saying, this, or what everybody is seeing, that's saying.

• 1:20:33Danny Jones?

  Fractal pattern.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, you kind of see these like, uh, like these mandalas. And then even when you look closer, they're made out of these Japanese looking things, which is actually when you look at the, at the carrot report, uh. Images, it looks almost identical to that. I don't know if the report is real even, but whatever it is, the language looks very similar. And something in the report that was very interesting, the claim there, according to this anonymous person. The person basically claims that he worked in Palo Alto in this lab on these recovered alien drone that had these symbols on them. Okay. And then he talks about, so if you look at the map, you see these maps, second from the left, yeah, right there.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  If you arrange them in the right map, like this, for example. Can you punch in on that? It will create some kind of a function. You see how it's fractal like? And it goes into like these, all these functionalities. So if you know what to do, you know what they are and you know what they represent. You literally can code a physical material to do something. So specifically, for example, you have a craft that can create anti-gravity. I'm just pulling it out of my ass right now, but let's say it can create anti-gravity with the right amount of magnetic field around it, let's say, okay? It wouldn't be able to do it without the right arrangement of the symbols of the map, like this on it. Only when you put this on, it goes, ah, okay, now I'm doing this thing. You see what I mean?

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  So the code is so sophisticated that when it's designed, when the environment that it's designed to operate in recognizes these symbols to be in it. It instantiates the function automatically without you needing to put it in some kind of a, the hierarchy of everything we do in computers. So like right now, you would have to put something in on the screen. You code something in, it goes through all the levels, through the compilers, into the logic gates that executes a function, and then there's an output. And these outputs you receive back as either a calculation, an image, whatever it is, right? That's how computers work at the moment. Yep. So you don't have to do any of that.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  The proposition in this report, which I found very interesting and somewhat accurate to what I kind of already gathered from the space, is that the code is so sophisticated that it can literally code for the functionality of itself without you needing to put it through this chain of commands. You'd literally, it just, the environment knows that it needs to do that when this code is present. So you can write with a sharpie, the right arrangement of these characters. On a certain surface, that surface will now know it is functioning differently than what it does usually. Does that make sense?

• 1:23:14Danny Jones?

  I mean, what you're saying makes sense. Yeah, I just don't, I don't.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  That's, that was, so I wanted to mention this, okay? Because I found this very relevant to how the code can potentially be coding for everything. Because what you see in the laser is very similar to this. So it would make sense that if the entirety of spacetime is this environment that is designed to receive this code, if you put this code in the right arrangement, you can do anything with spacetime. You just need to understand what it is. You need to know the Rosetta Stone. You need to know how to code.

• 1:23:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Does that make more sense?

• 1:23:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:51Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  So now, all of that is like out there in the clouds, crazy propositions.

• 1:23:55Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Okay, now let's bring it back to the second question that, well, not question, but the thing you said. What you saw was these rotating little things. And like I said, it is absolutely a strong case to make, which is like, yeah, you have this like stochastic pattern, just repeating pattern, and it's somewhat glistening. So you already have some kind of a illusion of a movement. Because when you move your head around the projection of a laser, it already looks kind of like something is moving. And now you're on this very powerful psychedelic, so of course it's gonna look like it's doing something, right? The thing there is that, and this is hard to communicate, unless you've seen it yourself. But it's the specificity coupled with its complexity.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  So you, it's highly specific, and everybody sees the same thing. And it's highly complex, and everybody sees the same thing. The coupling of these two qualities. So if you would just have, for example, something highly specific, but that specific thing would not arrange itself into more complex patterns. For example, like if you would only like see like little things that kind of look like letters, but they kind of like shiver in one spot, you know? Then I would say, yeah, like then that explanation that we just mentioned, that it's just like a speckle effect that jitters, and then you have a psychedelic substance. Now it makes sense.

• 1:25:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  But because it creates also extremely coherent structures that are much larger, even without you moving your head or doing anything else. And everybody sees that, exactly the same thing. Now you have a slightly different relationship to it.

• 1:25:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  Also, another thing to mention is that There is a quality to it, which is the first video I put out about it, I didn't really know what to call that quality. So I called it epistemologically sound, which just what I meant by that is that the way it appears communicates to you that it's real. Like there's a there's a rigidity and insistence of itself to be itself, the same way that everything else in regular space operates. So like, would you postulate that this can possibly be hallucination, this mug right now?

• 1:26:01Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  Why? Aside from the fact that you know that nothing happened, it should suggest that this should be hallucination. But but there are specific qualities of this. Let's say we would have.

• 1:26:11Danny Jones?

  Technically, it technically is a hallucination, right? Because our mind, our brains create this. There's like the what Gallimore talked about was like the the brain filter hypothesis. Hypothesis is that our brains are filtering reality into a way for us to be able to survive and get through the day and to function as human beings. Kind of like what we were talking about last night with evolution, how evolution is.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Correct. In fact, his book Reality Switch Technologies is one that I always recommend all the time to people.

• 1:26:36Danny Jones?

  I think it's right behind you, the blue one.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, great book. It's a great entry point because it explains really well, even without anything that I'm saying. Why specifically with D M T, which is what he's explaining in the book. It's very difficult to explain it away as a hallucination in terms of what we understand about neuroscience and how the brain works. Which is exactly what you said.

• 1:26:56Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  That that the brain mostly ignores information. It doesn't project information.

• 1:27:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  So it already has world models.

• 1:27:04Danny Jones?

  It's a filter to help us survive.

• 1:27:06Speaker 01

  It basically prevents information from coming in unless the information disagrees strongly with what the brain thinks is going on. Then it goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's not what I thought it was. And then it goes like there's an error signal and then it corrects. It goes, it searches for adjacent world models or in the world model, adjacent structures like, ah, okay, it moved to the left, no problem. So now it will correct. But the brain is not like you're receiving information from the outside like a camera. It doesn't work like that. The brain projects a guess work. It's almost like a a model of the world. And as long as whatever is coming from the quote unquote outside, we're not getting into what that means at the moment. But whatever it is that is we call physical, as long as it agrees with what the brain thought it was, the brain just ignores that information.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  So everything you're seeing in the room room room right now, but this is important, I know you know this, but it's important that listeners understand this. This is a crucial point that everything you see in front of you, if you're just staring at a static room, like if you whatever, like this ruler over there, whatever that is. My brain has a whole set of neurons responsible for particular angles that are that exactly positioned this way.

• 1:28:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Particular colors, particular textures, and it just projects all of that as a model.

• 1:28:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:15Speaker 01

  And everything that's coming to me right now from the room you are when you don't move too much, like just this way, literally everything, all the photons are coming, informing my brain about what's going on right now, my brain ignores because it's exactly what it thought it was, so it just projects from the inside the model, and that's all it has to do, it actually preserves energy this way.

• 1:28:34Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  When something surprising happens, if all of a sudden a crow is gonna fly into the room, the brain will go, whoa, I didn't expect that, there's gonna be a neurological, there's gonna be some kind of reaction of my body, but also the brain will go, wait, I didn't expect that to happen, it will allow more of the information from the outside to inform what is going on, because now it has to pay attention to what's going on because it's new, it's not what I thought it's gonna happen. But a brain have seen a crow before, so in that instance, it'll be like, yeah, it'll be surprising for an instance, but very quickly my brain will go, okay, I get it, like a crow flu in.

• 1:29:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  Okay, but if you have something that is so outside of the possibilities that the brain has ever seen before, like the DMT space, it's gonna start struggling, because it doesn't have world models for that, it's looking through all its documents and going, this is not, this is nowhere, we don't know what this is, we don't know what this is, so it goes into this like, uh.

• 1:29:27Danny Jones?

  And we didn't, we didn't sort of climb a ladder to, we didn't, like, we didn't start from point A and like gradually go get ourselves to point X, right, we're just jumping from A to X.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:29:41Danny Jones?

  So we're not building that understanding or that scaffolding, if you will.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  That's a great point, that's exactly what it is, it's just kind of surprising, and it's an island of information.

• 1:29:51Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  Versus, versus a map of information.

• 1:29:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Exactly. So, why are we saying all this? Is because I discovered from a Neil Seth book, Seth's book, Being You, that there's a term that cognitive scientists actually use that exists, it's called objectness, not objectiveness, objectness. It's, it's used to describe.

• 1:30:25Speaker 06

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• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  The repertoire of all the qualities that a real object in three dimensional space has. So this is almost like an unfakeable bill. Now, I'm sure very soon with VR we'll be able to fake it, but it's actually very difficult. For a good example of this is that people that have synesthesia, and this is something he mentions in the book, people that have, you know, they associate colors with particular numbers, or their senses cross paths, right? So you can induce synesthesia with psychedelics, but some people are born with it, or they had an accident and all of a sudden it happens. And sometimes they would see colors that are not there, so to speak. Like it's just projected from the brain. But nevertheless, people with synesthesia never confuse synesthetic colors with regular colors.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Because real colors have objectness. There's a certain way that ambient light hits these objects that when your brain is projecting it from the inside, it looks different. It doesn't have the same repertoire of all the qualities that three dimensional space provides. Does that make sense? Okay, so the code, for all intents and purposes, has this quality of objectness. You can't touch it, that's true, but that's the only thing that is missing. Everything else behaves like it has objectness. You move your head around it, it doesn't care. You, it's just you're gonna see the parallax effect, just like you would with a regular.

• 1:32:20Danny Jones?

  You can even move the laser and it stays still.

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, it stays still. Well, it stays with its own motion on its own side. It doesn't care about what the laser is doing.

• 1:32:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  So it literally looks like you're shining.

• 1:32:30Danny Jones?

  It's like you're in a pitch black room, moving a flashlight around.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:32:34Danny Jones?

  Exposing things.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  And actually, the best description I've ever heard was by this woman who saw the code, and she said, "It looks like we're looking through a microscope." And that was the closest description that I've ever heard. Like, literally, you're looking into a new world, you're looking into a new dimension, and it just does what it does. Now, it is also important to mention, to be quite fair, is because even Gallimore himself, as far as I know, he never tried it yet, but he did say, on a few occasions, that actually seeing language is something very common and we know all about it. He did say this. He said that with a lot of seconds, we see language. I think, and hopefully he will try this soon enough, when he's gonna see it, because I know what he's talking about, I've seen that too. It's not like that. And it's hard for me to point to it, because, you know, Gallimore is a world expert.

• 1:33:17Speaker 01

  So if he thinks that there's no distinction there, I have to kind of say, okay, like, if it were anybody else, then I would say, oh, you don't understand. But you can't tell Andrew Gallimore he doesn't understand. He definitely understands, right? So I think it's just an experience thing. He needs to see it, and I think he will see immediately why it's different. It's not like what people see when they, on MDMA sometimes, and they see these languages kind of like moving on surfaces. I think it's actually related, but the way it appears is very different. It's, uh, these languages and codes are much more kind of like subsumed, they're a little bit more smudged. You can actually change them with your attention. If you try, you can actually change the content of what you're seeing with your attention.

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  You can make it into numbers, you can make it into different languages. I've tried, yeah. But not with what you see in the laser. You can't change that. It doesn't matter what you do. I had people come in from all walks of life, and they're like, oh, I bet you I can figure it out. Like, I can do something to it, change it, whatever. Nobody could do it. You can't change it, no matter what. Which is one of these things I'm trying to do now, to see if there's anything physical I can do around it to induce a change to the code in a way that you and I would agree on. Because if I can do that, that's it. Like, at that point, you have like a level of confidence about it that is of a very different flavor. Because if, let's say, I can turn on a very powerful magnet around a diode.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  And because of the Zeeman effect, which just creates sub-orbitals in the elements, I would see some departure of what the code is doing. And you and I would agree that we see the same departure, either in content or in the way it behaves. Not only then now you have a much higher level of confidence that this is real, but also you can start now start trying to map what does that mean in relationship to the code? Because if the code is related to what the physical world is doing, or maybe it is the physical world, then if we know quite a bit about magnetism, for example. So if I turn on the magnet and it does X, I can ask myself, what is this function that I see the code is changing? Mean in the context of what I understand about what magnetism is?

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  And if I move the magnet, if something changes more, I can start literally creating a Rosetta Stone of what I think the code is doing.

• 1:35:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  See what I'm saying?

• 1:35:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:33Danny Jones?

  So what else did Andrew say about this specifically? Did he have any like, um, like suggestions of other ways you could sort of try to experiment with this? Or?

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  As far as I know.

• 1:35:44Danny Jones?

  Corroborate it?

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  As far as I know, Andrew didn't really say much about it. Uh, he, I, I can't guess why. I, my best guess is that he's actually really busy. He is building this new thing with, uh, with Dennis McKenna and, uh, I think it's Nautics. So they're working on something big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So as far as I know, he's very busy with that.

• 1:36:05Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Um, and maybe he thinks that, uh, because of this association he has with something that he thinks that he really knows about, maybe he thinks it's not important enough.

• 1:36:15Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:36:15Speaker 01

  That's my basket. I don't know.

• 1:36:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:17Speaker 01

  Uh, but as far as I know, he wasn't making any suggestions or anything like this.

• 1:36:20Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:21Speaker 01

  I do know that a couple of people associated with that side of the project saw it. I don't know if I'm supposed to mention them. I don't know if they want people to know who they are.

• 1:36:28Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  But for a fact, I know that two people saw it.

• 1:36:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  Okay? Uh, one of the reactions was, I don't know what to do with this, which I found very interesting because usually scientists will have a good idea of at least what basket to put things in.

• 1:36:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  But the reaction was, I don't know what to do with this. So now I want to mention that I actually am not relying on the laser, me personally, at all to, to establish my claims for myself. Because what started happening to me personally after I discovered the laser is, you know, transcends any bound of like a

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  There's no more shred of doubt in my mind that this is in fact what's going on because of what started happening to me personally. One of these things is, well, I call it now the console, but I'm not sure what else to call it. But a few months after I built the laser, I smoked the DMT and a computer console appeared for me. Like, straight up. Like, imagine Tony Stark, augmented reality menus just open in front of you. They are coherent in space. They behave like a real object. I can interact with them to some degree. I can kind of pull them with my attention. They just hover in front of me in space. I released a video about this in which I also created a little 3D illustration of what it looks like.

• 1:37:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  And I'm now working on a second video with also a virtual reality expert is helping me to build like the more robust.

• 1:37:59Danny Jones?

  How long does it stay there for you after you smoke the DMT?

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  No, it's just there until the DMT dissipates, the whole time. It just appears immediately.

• 1:38:06Danny Jones?

  Roughly how long?

• 1:38:08Speaker 01

  Twenty minutes?

• 1:38:09Danny Jones?

  It stays there for twenty minutes, even after like the most extreme part of the trip?

• 1:38:12Speaker 01

  So for me, so they also changed something about my experience of the molecule too.

• 1:38:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:38:17Speaker 01

  So basically, there's, I don't experience what you experienced yesterday.

• 1:38:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  I don't experience that anymore.

• 1:38:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:38:24Speaker 01

  This is why I'm a little jealous because it tells a bit.

• 1:38:27Danny Jones?

  So you built up a tolerance?

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  I don't think it's tolerance. I think they shifted something about my way of seeing the space. So this is where, I want to make it very clear, we're entering kind of like, you know, you kind of, I call it, you kind of have to take my word for it, land. So I don't expect anybody to take this on board too seriously, but that's my experience. My experience is that, basically, and I saw this one time, I saw other people flying into the space. Physically, like I saw other people flying into the space. And there's these snake-like looking objects. They're not snakes, but they're kind of like, you know, like a pipe thingy. They comes on with almost like VR glasses and they just come on from the ground and then they meet the person that flies into the space.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  And they just, they're basically like, puts under, like entertainment. It's like, it just meets you and then shows you whatever.

• 1:39:19Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  Okay. And I saw beings or whatever they are, they were like, keep going about their business. So what I, I, what I deducted from that is that they are basically, like, people, things are flying into their space all the time. Cause it's kind of like main, mainframe. And what they do is that they have these entertainment systems. So they don't, so, so people don't, not just people, but other beings, they don't interrupt whatever they're doing. Cause otherwise it's just chaos, right? So then it's like, almost like for toddlers, it just like comes to your face and you're just like sitting, you're watching a movie. Okay. And then you come down. As far as I know, these goggles, goggles don't meet me anymore.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  So I'm, so I'm seeing the real space, what it actually is.

• 1:40:00Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Okay. And I know of other people that are experiencing a similar thing. And maybe there's a lot more that are not talking about that, I'm not sure. But there's actually a difference between what you experienced, like what you described and actually seeing it, the space for what it is.

• 1:40:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:40:14Speaker 01

  Okay. So now, in addition to all of that, I have this console appearing for me. That is like extremely realistic and it's there in space and it's always happens like 100% of the time. And recently I've heard about this guy, uh, Tom Matt. I don't know if you've heard of him.

• 1:40:30Danny Jones?

  Tom Matt?

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  M A T T E.

• 1:40:32Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:33Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 1:40:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he, uh, I was actually supposed to have a call with him tomorrow as far as I know.

• 1:40:39Speaker 01

  But, uh, he basically had some kind of a, also interesting story about a decade ago. He had like a mental breakdown from just doing a lot of drugs. But he was like a, you know, family man, as far as I remember from his story, he was like a, uh, I think advertisement company, something. And then he just dropped everything. Cause he, you know, basically had to, I don't know if he got a divorce, but basically his whole life fell apart.

• 1:41:05Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:41:06Speaker 01

  And then, uh, he went, he was homeless for a while. And then he, he had to rehabilitate himself because he realized, okay, if I want to be taken seriously, I have to really rehabilitate myself. There you go. And there's something he calls upside. Okay? And what's interesting is that what, I'll tell you what it is right now. An ability stayed with him after he completely rehabilitated himself. Which from what he's describing, sounds very similar to the console.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  But he sees it all the time. He can just choose to see it without any substances.

• 1:41:43Danny Jones?

  I broke my brain with drugs.

• 1:41:47Danny Jones?

  That's pretty metal. Most people who have lost their minds never find their way back to tell the story. I was lucky. Not only did I find my way back with lots of help, I found something more, more mind than I know what to do with. I no longer believe insane things, but the way my brain works has fundamentally changed and for the better.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  Wow. So basically, I think he can pull the console that he calls upside on just by command, like he can just do it.

• 1:42:17Danny Jones?

  Without anything.

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  Without anything. Now, the reason I mentioned him is because when I read what he or I heard him say it, I forget. But I either heard him say it or I read it somewhere where he said that he was working with Dean Raden. And the way they tested, one of the first things they did to test what he's claiming is that they checked his eye tracking. And I never thought of that. That's brilliant. Because when your eyes move throughout the room without looking at anything, they would go through saccades. So they would just like jump, right? Yeah. Okay. But if you're tracking an object, your eyes won't do that. They would just glide. Yeah. So if he's seeing something real, that's how you begin to test for that. So at least real for him, like it's an actual thing that is moving. Yeah.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  So that's one way that I can for sure substantiate that I'm looking at something real, because literally the thing is just hovering in front of me. Now, I understand that it's a little underwhelming for just somebody else to tell you like, well, I'm seeing this thing is like, okay. But you need to understand, this thing is so realistic. Like it's not like I was just standing there in, my mouth was just open and Kelsey was next to me. She was like, what's going on? I was like, give me a second. I couldn't believe it. It was like this egg shaped object that appeared and then it opened like slices of orange, like, or like a flower. And then a podium came from the middle and arranged itself into these different screens,

• 1:43:37Speaker 01

  a suit that was hovering in front of me, a pair of gloves and a VR glasses carousel that was spinning on my leg.

• 1:43:45Danny Jones?

  Like a VR helmet?

• 1:43:46Speaker 01

  Straight up.

• 1:43:48Speaker 01

  Like, like, just like real, real, real, like, imagine just this, you know, glass kind of hovering in front of you. I can walk around it like a coffee table, like it's not moving. Some, some, some parts of it are not moving, like the main body of the console. And then the, some sets of screens follow me around, like whenever I walk, it just follows me around. So that coupled with the fact that, well, I asked, I asked directly, like, what does this all mean? Does this mean, did you make this space?

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  And one time they just showed me. So I was shown that explicitly, that that's actually what's going on. So my conviction comes from there, not from the laser. The laser is just the only thing that I can show you.

• 1:44:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  But I know this for a fact because I've literally been shown this. So I don't expect anybody else to take this on board because somebody else was shown. But the laser I can show you and it's something that you can repeat. And now I'm trying to see if I can also create some kind of a coherent change to the code in a way that others would agree that that's what's going on.

• 1:44:52Danny Jones?

  What other, have you thought of any other possible ways you could introduce different elements into this? Like you were talking earlier about magnets or any other ways to change the experiment to see if you can see something else? Or are there any, like, how do you plan to push this, like, to the next level?

• 1:45:11Speaker 01

  Uh, the only way that I, that it comes to mind is that I have to prove that that's possible. Like I, I have to be able to produce another thing, like another result of some sort that is coherent and reproducible. Yeah, that's the only way.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Because I suppose, see, here's my experience of this. I thought that the second people are gonna see the code, because I saw the reactions, everybody were just like mind blown. I thought, oh, all I have to do now is to show this to like, you know, to some scientists and game over.

• 1:45:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  Not the case, because your brain is still, I, I discovered that this insistence of the brain to maintain the previous frame is so strong. The amount of effort that it probably requires to reformulate and reframe the world in a fundamental way is just too much to, it's too much to postulate, unless you have very strong reasons to do that, like you don't have any other, any other choice.

• 1:46:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  So I showed it to a few scientists. And same thing, mind blown, holy shit, next question, what do you do with that? What you just asked me? What are you planning to do about that? It's never like, how can I help? It's never. So it's like, and then I thought of it, I was like, oh, I get it. Like, in the end of the day, you have to get up, you have to go to work, you have to do your thing. What animates us every day is we like the big questions, but what animates us is the immediate future. So you, and by the way, when I say the immediate future, I mean, even your next 50 years in, in, in the terms that we're talking about here, right?

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  So your immediate future, even your, the rest of your lifetime, in the context of what I'm saying now, I call your immediate future. Obviously, the next month, the next year, people who are better at planning, maybe a decade, maybe even two decades as far as investments or whatever. But that's about it. Nobody thinks in terms of 200, 300, 400 years, because they're not going to be around.

• 1:47:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:02Speaker 01

  Who cares?

• 1:47:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Right? I want to enjoy my life, totally get it. There's something about understanding, you know, the true, like the deeper qualities of reality that requires this recession from the self. Like you actually have to remove yourself from the picture and try to see the bigger picture for whatever it is that is actually possible for humanity. And that is something that I guess psychology is not that easy to convince to do. Like your psychology is just like, no, I, I just want to have a nice vacation, have some fun, have good food.

• 1:47:40Danny Jones?

  Preservation.

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  Self-preservation, self-care, and again, it's also very important. It's, I'm not saying this in any negative vein, this is just the state of affairs, right? So then I realized, oh, it's on me. There's, there's no like, unless I can show something that a scientist can just take, I was like, oh, I see, okay. So you're saying I can reproduce this? Let me test this. Then scientists will get involved. At the moment, I mean, the testing the laser in a lab is easy, right? You can just put 200, 300, a thousand people, put them all in extended state drip.

• 1:48:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah. How do they, how do they do that with IV?

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:15Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:48:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then, and then put the laser in front of them. Tell them nothing.

• 1:48:21Danny Jones?

  Right, have a placebo.

• 1:48:23Speaker 01

  No, tell them, tell them nothing.

• 1:48:24Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:48:24Speaker 01

  Okay, and then double blind, right?

• 1:48:27Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Just run with it, do a thousand, two thousand people, obviously will take time, but it's easy to do.

• 1:48:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  And then you just run the numbers, like who says what? At what point something appears for somebody who's told nothing? At one, at what point something appears for somebody who you told what to look for?

• 1:48:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  At what point something appears to the people you told something else on purpose to throw their scent off? Which I've done. Sometimes I would tell people like, hey, you, I forget what it was, but like I would tell people something else. And they would come back and they would say, oh, I didn't see what you said, but I saw these weird Japanese looking things.

• 1:49:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:05Danny Jones?

  What kind, have you gotten any, any people that you've talked to, has, has there been any um reasonable pushback to what you're saying, or someone trying to explain this away? In a way?

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  All the time, yeah.

• 1:49:18Danny Jones?

  And what has been the most compelling argument that you've heard?

• 1:49:22Speaker 01

  Uh, I've never heard a compelling argument based on an actual experience. And that's important. So people try to explain it away in terms that they, they simply use what they already know. Which is not the case here, because it's not something you know. So the speckle effect is something that people immediately jump to.

• 1:49:38Danny Jones?

  The speckle effect?

• 1:49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, the speckle effect is the shiny stuff that you see.

• 1:49:41Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  On the laser, right? Which is the thing I said like.

• 1:49:43Danny Jones?

  And they're saying, so if you just, if you're sober and you look into that laser, you see those speckles, right? That kind of a staticy stuff.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:50Danny Jones?

  And um, it's not necessarily moving in a way that it would move if you were just on any sort of hallucinogenic drug. So if you're, if I'm looking at you and I'm taking D and T, you're going to be moving around, there's going to be colors, it's going to be animated, right? So they're saying that it basically makes sense that if you're looking at it in this state, of course, these speckles are going to be animated and look like this.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  So I guess the relevance of this is, does this actually advance humanity in any form, shape or form? Is there something about this that we can do something with that helps the world in some way? And by the way, understanding that this is the truth, if it is the truth, is squarely fits within the description of helping humanity. Because if it's true, we want to know it either way, whatever it is, right? Um, because, you know, with all the biggest discoveries, in the beginning, it's not really clear if it's ever going to be applicable to the, to our world. Like quantum mechanics, it was never, like in the beginning, it was not clear to anybody that it will ever have anything to do with our lives. But within a decade from its discovery,

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  it allowed for some things that were very, that completely shifted our reality, like computers or lasers, actually. So you couldn't do any of these things without understanding of quantum mechanics. But at the bottom of it, it just looks like this, like super, like what? Right? Like, what do you even do with that?

• 1:51:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So how do you apply this? I have no idea. But ultimately, it would have to be the cash value of it. Like, you would have to be able to do something with it, understand something with it.

• 1:51:23Danny Jones?

  Well, not necessarily. There's lots of research projects that go on. There's lots of, not, not as much nowadays, a lot of it's secret. But there's, I mean, there's like blue sky research, right? People that just dump billions of dollars, not, maybe not billions, but like millions and millions of dollars into things that they don't know there's going to be, like, like just experiment, like experiments that, um, trying to figure out what happens with things or, or developing technology or doing experiments, like remote viewing is an example, where they don't know if there's going to be, there's never been like a proven, uh, result that's profitable from it, right? But there, it's worth throwing X amount of millions of dollars towards it to see what happens for the, just in case there's a 1% chance

• 1:52:06Danny Jones?

  we can learn something about it that will put our, the United States in a dominant position on a global scale.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  So you're saying exactly what I'm saying? That, that's, that would be the potential applicable thing?

• 1:52:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:20Speaker 01

  You're looking for it because you want to see if there's a potential to apply it to something. That's what I mean. So at the moment, this is so, first of all, you have to lift it from the maybe. So for me, it was lifted from the maybe to the sure. But you have to lift it on a more global scale, on a more cultural, general scale. And especially for the scientific, because you might need to literally redo almost every scientific experiment on DMT to see if there's something there.

• 1:52:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 1:52:50Danny Jones?

  Well, so what is the point of Galamore's study that he's doing? The extended state DMT, the DMTX?

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  As far as I know, well, there's a few points of contact with applicability. But one of them is to see if there's a way, if there's a way for people to create world models that would make that space more coherent, so they can actually engage with it with a more, in a way that would allow us to draw more actual information from. One of the problems with DMT, as you experienced yesterday, it's that it's so confusing and bamboozling, is that there's not enough time for your brain to make sense of it in any shape or form. The question, one of the questions that they're asking, as far as I understand it, is, is it possible to send people there long enough that the world is going to start creating world models that are related to that space?

• 1:53:38Speaker 01

  So you can start making sense of that space as much as it makes sense of our space.

• 1:53:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  And then you can start attracting it with a way that you can actually study it. That's one of the, that's one of the ways they're trying to aim for.

• 1:53:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:53:50Speaker 01

  I'm sure there's a lot of other things, and I'm sure that there's also things they're not talking about, but that's, that's one that I can think of that is very, I think, very worth doing.

• 1:54:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:01Speaker 01

  Because I think that's the important part, I think. Like, understanding if this space is real, how do we interact with it in a way that we can actually understand and do something with and connect with? One of the most beautiful ideas I've ever heard Galamore outline, I think it was in his first book, which was that what might be happening, and I think that there's a very good chance that it's exactly what's happening, is that there's this infinite informational space, or computational space, whatever you want to call it. And then things arise, conscious units arise within it. And whatever the local environment that they have is, there's gonna be a bubble around which they're gonna build their world around.

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  So imagine like just infinite space, right? And then there's even the the regularities of their immediate space, for us it will be the three dimensional space, right? Is still the local group of whatever is happening there. If you move a little bit more in the in the in the in the world model world, in the in the in this mind model world, you're gonna have a completely different set of rules, maybe even completely different set of experienced laws of physics. But if you're here, then the the central nervous system will start interacting, exploring whatever that is, build world models related to this tiny bubble, because it has to preserve energy, it can't have, it can't use infinite energy, and then just stays there. When a civilization reaches a certain level of comfort, let's call it,

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  where it can postulate more things, has more time to think about the, you know, the larger implications or whatever that is, it builds tools, scientific tools, all of that, and it starts probing outside of its own local bubble. And in the beginning, it's because the rest of it seems chaotic in relationship to whatever is inside. It's just seems like soup, like nonsense. But if you reach long enough, you might reach another local bubble of coherence, of actual structure. And now, but it's very alien to your structure, so now you have to learn how to interact with it. But you have to stay there long enough with your attention to be able to retain anything of of value

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  that you can then translate to something that will become part of your tapestry or or or structure. So in order for you to understand what that is, you have to stay long enough there.

• 1:56:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:56:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:19Danny Jones?

  And you're gonna neglect what's happening here at the same time.

• 1:56:21Speaker 01

  Not necessarily, you might be able to fold both of them into view. So like be able to interact with both of them at the same time, but it will, because your your genes already have enough information to keep you tethered here, right? That's what builds your body and what keeps you here, right? But then your mind is exploring beyond, and maybe you can actually start evolving, not just in this space, but in this space and that space at the same time. So that, I think that can actually be of a very interesting thing, because I think what computation is, is actually a process of a higher dimensional value. So it's like, computation is completely orthogonal to the laws of physics. It's not arising from any law of physics, it's just possible. You can compute with the waves of the ocean if you want, it's just gonna take forever.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  So the fact that you can send signals in a binary, in like zero, one, so just, and a state of two state, a possible two states situation, and if you can do it in a particular arrangement, it will do something, right? And that is a very difficult thing to grasp if you're not on the end of like trying to actually build this thing or think about it a lot. But it's not arising from any law of physics. Now physicists would insist that computation is a physical process, because you always have something physical happening when computation is happening.

• 1:57:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  But I feel that that's a slight begging to question kind of things, the same way that people insist that consciousness is just whatever the brain is doing. I think it's a confusion of the terms. Because consciousness is not just what the brain is doing. Consciousness is the experience of this, right? You can say that whenever the brain is doing X, you experience this, whatever that is, and when brain is doing Y, you're experiencing that other thing that you're experiencing. But to say that they're the same, it's, that somehow this, whatever you feel inside, is expressed, can fully be expressed in just what the crackling is of the brain is doing, I think it is a mistake.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  I think you can say, there's somehow the same thing looked at from different perspectives, but then you have to explain what are these two different perspectives. In the same way, I feel that computation, the abstraction of computation, is actually something that floats, floats free of a substrate. So it doesn't matter that you're gonna have a physical thing happening, you prob, if, if what I'm saying is correct, then you would be able to do computation even in non-physical systems. It's just a matter of finding something that can actually do the one and the, represent the one and the zero, and then do the computation with that. So, and that's important, because if, if it's true, then computation is truly a universal thing, which will also explain why, after we discovered computation, we're capable of doing so much more sophisticated things with it,

• 1:59:04Speaker 01

  than you would ever be able to do if you would just try and manipulate physical matter. There's only so much you can do with just the technical stuff of the physicality of the space.

• 1:59:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:59:13Speaker 01

  And there's so much more you can do by playing with computation, even though you need to instantiate it in physical objects, build computers, but the actual function of computation, I think, is completely free of substrate.

• 1:59:28Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:59:29Speaker 01

  So the relevance of this to, to everything I'm doing, and I think to what is going on now, is that to understand that the reason I went on this whole explanation about computation is because I think it is important to understand that what we found, computation, is an actual function from a higher space. It's not just a thing that is possible in our universe. We essentially found a function from a higher dimensional space, which is why it allows us to do more. Okay, now I know it might not be that clear to everybody, but.

• 1:59:59Danny Jones?

  You think it's another civilization?

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  Uh, the other civilizations definitely live in these higher spaces, for sure.

• 2:00:05Danny Jones?

  Uh, do you think they're biological life forms?

• 2:00:07Speaker 01

  I don't think they're, well, it depends what you mean by biological, not biological.

• 2:00:10Danny Jones?

  Do you think they evolved somewhere else the same way we evolved here?

• 2:00:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:00:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:00:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, and this space is infinite. So the reason I think it matters is because it, it seems to me that it's not a coincidence that I, that I found this now. And I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of the things that are happening in the world right now are happening in the world right now.

• 2:00:30Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:00:30Speaker 01

  And

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  I think that understanding

• 2:00:39Speaker 01

  what things really are and what is our relationship to these things is one of the key components for us moving forward in the near and the, uh, hopefully long prosperous future of humanity.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  And you tell me where it becomes a little bit too unclear or esoteric for you.

• 2:00:58Danny Jones?

  Okay. Um, well, first of all, do you, do you think that?

• 2:01:04Danny Jones?

  Do you think that it's possible that when we evolve in 100,000 years from now, we become so advanced, when we have a better understanding of physics, when we have a better understanding of what's going on in these DMT realms and all this, and we, you know, under our understanding of the universe expands? Do you think that it's going to be possible that we are the ones that are simulating these sort of simulations with people like us interacting in them and being controlled?

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  Like, so I actually, okay, great, great guiding question. I, I don't think we're being controlled. I think it's actually open-ended. The point of it is to see what happens. So I actually think, uh, if we want to take on board the fact that we are simulated and this is actually a simulated space. And by the way, in the context of what I explained about computation, what this means is that it's, I always say it's like the matrix upside down. It's not like we're stuck in a computer software and we have to try and get out to the real world. Is that the real world is computational. It's digital, like outside of our universe, everything else is computational. And our universe is too, but from the inside, it looks what we call physical. It's a subspace.

• 2:02:20Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a smaller slice of reality, basically.

• 2:02:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  Okay. So it's not like we're going to try and get out to some kind of a base reality. It's that we just understood that we're part of a larger space. And now we're starting to investigate what is this larger space and how it can be applicable to our space. One of these functionalities, I claim, is computation. It shows you that you can harness some of this higher functionality to do certain things. Was, oh, I thought it was the door.

• 2:02:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, Stevens, you all right?

• 2:02:53Danny Jones?

  Did you leave the DMT pen back there? Jesus.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  Um, so to your question of whether, so first of all, that's important for me to outline because I don't think we're controlled.

• 2:03:06Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah, you don't think we're controlled like as if if we're if there is some sort of higher intelligence out there that created our reality or we're living in some sort of simulation that was created by another civilization. You're saying that they wouldn't want to control what we're doing because we would be more of like a science experiment to them. They want to let us loose and see what happens.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Bingo. Yeah. And again, super important for me to to make this clear. This is like, now we're talking highly speculative. It's just kind of like my impression. This is not, I'm claiming to know for sure. Here's what I'm claiming to know for sure. I'm claiming, I'm claiming to know for sure the code is real. I'm claiming, claiming to know for sure that there's an actual civilization talking to us. They're real for sure. What I'm not claiming is that I understand exactly what their goals are.

• 2:03:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  Or I'm not claiming any of that.

• 2:04:00Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:04:01Speaker 01

  My impression is, but no, but but I am claiming that I know that they're real and I am claiming that the code is real. Okay. That's the only things I'm claiming.

• 2:04:08Danny Jones?

  They are real because you can say that they're real because you're experiencing them the same way you're experiencing this cup of coffee on the table.

• 2:04:14Speaker 01

  And you.

• 2:04:15Danny Jones?

  And me. Right. Our brain, our brain creates and and projects what is real, right? All of this is essentially a hologram and that's created in our brain.

• 2:04:24Speaker 01

  Yes, well, you would have that situation even if you would be thinking from a physicalist perspectives. Like even if it's just like a regular physical world, like you said, this is already some kind of a rendering, whatever this is. Because it's not what the real world looks like.

• 2:04:38Danny Jones?

  The only difference is we can actually touch it.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, but even the touch of it is already a simulation of some sort. You know what I'm saying?

• 2:04:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  Right. Because this is not what atoms look like. This is not what the particles and all of that stuff looks like. This is some kind of a rendering. That's already a simulation, even if you're looking at it purely from a physicalist perspective. Okay. So now, but I'm claiming more than that. However, I'm not claiming that I understand their goals. So everything I'm saying from this point on is highly speculative, but it's my strong impression that follow the next 20 minutes. So my strong impression is that. They are, yes, we are kind of like the science experiment slash entertainment. So imagine like a TV set that you basically just can always pull up in front of you. And it's just everywhere. You can just, oh, I want to look at this patch of space.

• 2:05:28Speaker 01

  And it doesn't have to be this patch of space. You can pull any patch of three dimensional space to you because you're in a higher dimension. So you can actually pull any, anything towards you.

• 2:05:36Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:05:37Speaker 01

  From anywhere.

• 2:05:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  I think they are dark matter. I think that the galaxy is their city. And I think what we're seeing essentially is kind of like we're seeing through, behind the veil, we're seeing back into whatever surface we're projected from. I think the holographic principle is correct. We are a hologram. We are a projection.

• 2:05:58Danny Jones?

  What is the hol- for people that don't know, what is the holographic?

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  The holographic principle is, is something that was popularized by Leonard Susskind. Uh, it was originally uttered by another scientist. I forget his name right now. But Leonard Susskind is the most known person to kind of like make it more into a mainstream thing. And it's a very accepted frame through which to look at all physical theories nowadays. In fact, even Sean Carroll, who is known to only interact with like the most mainstream parts of physics, uh, is saying that he thinks it's the most promising thing we have. And according to the holographic principle, everything in the universe is a projection, three dimensional projection from a two dimensional filament somewhere outside of the outskirts of the universe. It, it, they came to that through basically looking at black holes.

• 2:06:42Speaker 01

  And there's something called, so when you ask yourself, how can it be, because we know that, you know, energy is not supposed to be able to create it or destroyed, or information is not supposed to be, be able to create it or destroy it according to physics. What happens to all information that falls into a black hole? Does it disappear? Because then it violates some physical laws. Well, Stephen Hawking gave a solution to this, which is now called the Hawking radiation, which he says, well, black holes are not completely black. They're, they radiate a little bit, which is what the Hawking radiation is. And essentially he proved it by showing that you have a situation where particles and antiparticles are created at the edge of the event horizon, where nothing can escape.

• 2:07:23Speaker 01

  And the, let's say that the one coupling will go inside and the other one will stay outside. So that way you basically preserve all the information. And in simple terms, what that means is all the information that falls into the black hole. For the external observer, will not fall into the black hole, but would be smeared infinitely on the event horizon around the black hole. So technically, you could retrieve all the things that ever fell into the black hole and reconstruct them if you would know how. Okay? That means that all information that is inside of that black hole now is also kept on the external part of the black hole. So that gave Leonard Susskind an idea how to play with it. And he came up with a model called the holographic principle that basically thinks of all of us kind of being in this enormous black hole.

• 2:08:09Speaker 01

  And what we really are is smeared on the filament on the external part. So we're inside the black hole, projected inwards, which is exactly what a hologram is. The technicalities of it is obviously extremely technical, but that's, that's the most kind of like basic explanation you can give of it. What's important to understand is that truly the most mainstream physicists today think this is the most promising frame through which to look at all our physical theories. Okay?

• 2:08:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  And I think that that's exactly correct. In fact, if you look at what you see inside the laser, it looks a lot like a hologram. So I think what is happening is that we are the hologram looking back through the sheet, looking back at the source of where we're projected from. So you see the actual way that the information is arranged that then gives rise to what we actually are. I think that's what's happening.

• 2:08:59Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:09:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:03Danny Jones?

  That's fucking crazy, man.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:06Danny Jones?

  So you were saying earlier also that, that um, you think there's something big coming?

• 2:09:13Speaker 01

  Yes. So this is where, you know, the way it sounds even, right? It makes me uncomfortable because I'm so not into the whole like, you know, prophecies and like, oh, we know about the disclosure and that whole stuff.

• 2:09:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  But I have to say, I'm kind of seeing,

• 2:09:32Speaker 01

  if I have to look at the whole situation, it seems like it would make perfect sense to me that within the next couple of years, really, you're going to have a situation where we're going to start discovering very big things that we didn't know before.

• 2:09:43Danny Jones?

  Why?

• 2:09:56Speaker 01

  I don't know if I can unpack this in 20 minutes.

• 2:09:59Danny Jones?

  It's okay, we've got plenty of time.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:10:01Danny Jones?

  Your flight doesn't leave for like...

• 2:10:10Speaker 01

  I'm trying to think of the most robust thing that I can say that is not just relying on strong intuition.

• 2:10:16Speaker 01

  So, I guess one of the things is,

• 2:10:24Speaker 01

  it's the peculiar synchronicity of all the possible biggest

• 2:10:32Speaker 01

  coming to fruition moments of all the possible

• 2:10:39Speaker 01

  perceptions of the world, both in religious terms, spiritual terms, scientific terms, UAP terms, AI terms, everybody seems to be converging, that something big is supposed to happen soon.

• 2:10:55Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. There's already this kind of like buzzwords about Altman saying that AGI will be real by 2025. Some people talk about, in the UAP community, people talk about the disclosure, which they put somewhere between 2027 and 2030. I think it's much earlier than that.

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  Well, I guess in this context, we can exclude the religious perception, because for them, it's always in a few years that something big is coming. So, okay, so that doesn't count. But also, you'd notice this very big uptake in, I guess, what you would call the spiritual pursuit. And you notice more and more, at least I notice more and more, people going through what I guess you would call the awakening. And it's not just some broad on Instagram, just kind of like, "Oh, now I only eat granola." Like, I'm not talking about that.

• 2:11:51Speaker 01

  I'm talking about truly transformative experiences that you can see people are having, that are more than just some kind of a

• 2:12:00Speaker 01

  longstanding relationship with psychedelics that culminates in something. They truly become something else. They have a different attitude. They all of a sudden shift.

• 2:12:12Speaker 01

  They carry themselves differently in the world. I don't know if you've noticed this in people at all.

• 2:12:17Danny Jones?

  Have you noticed this? People that um that use DMT often or use psychedelics more often? Do you ever? Do you think there's a fundamental shift that happens in the brain or in consciousness? Or in um like, do you think it makes people smarter?

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  No, that's.

• 2:12:37Danny Jones?

  Because I've heard people say that.

• 2:12:38Speaker 01

  That's too broad of a statement. No, no.

• 2:12:39Danny Jones?

  I've heard people that use DMT say like it helped them think better and it made them smarter.

• 2:12:46Speaker 01

  I think that the only thing that happened there is that it gave them the courage to be what they really are. I don't think it got them smarter. I think that it's a meaning aperture. What psychedelics are.

• 2:12:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:57Speaker 01

  So I think what it expands is your understanding to interact with meaning in a more confident and more comfortable way.

• 2:13:05Speaker 01

  So really, if you want to define what the smart is, if I have to define it, it's a very difficult thing to define, obviously. But if you want to put something that will encompass not just IQ, but just all the kinds of smart, you know, like somebody who's just.

• 2:13:17Danny Jones?

  Right. There's all kinds of intelligence.

• 2:13:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they're really intelligent, like they can write plays that just make people cry, you know, like. Yeah, but their IQ might not be that high, but so what? They can literally touch people in a way that nobody else can, right?

• 2:13:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:13:29Speaker 01

  That's smart. Okay, so what would be a definition that would fit all of those inside? I would say is interacting with information in a creative way. In other words, in a way that you can arrange it in a way that was never arranged before. In a way that can actually create a function that that that uh it that touches. No, what's the word? It the function that will allow for broader and broader application. So if you, for example, more universal, so in the context of a play, right? Which usually you wouldn't necessarily think of of theater in the context of this kind of a description.

• 2:14:10Speaker 01

  But if you can touch more people, let's say I write a play that that makes this kind of community weep for whatever reason. Because you knew something about, you know, something idiosyncratic about the way that they do things.

• 2:14:22Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:14:23Speaker 01

  But if you can make a play that can make the world weep. You understand something about humans that is much more deep than just the cultural zeitgeist, right? Okay, that's what I mean by universal.

• 2:14:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:14:34Speaker 01

  And understand, so that would be someone smart. They can understand something about something. They can see deeper into it.

• 2:14:41Danny Jones?

  Ah.

• 2:14:41Speaker 01

  Okay. So what I think that happens to the people that you just described is that they got a glimmer of that this thing that was kept in them the whole time, but they never had the guts to actually put it to action. They're like, and then they saw that what they thought was real in that space. And maybe that gave them the courage to actually, do I think it arranges your mind in a different way? That now makes you just like higher cognitively functioning? I don't think there's any evidence to support that. But I think that what does happen is that psychologically it releases you from the constraints of your own, the feelings of your own inadequacies, basically.

• 2:15:17Danny Jones?

  Okay, interesting.

• 2:15:19Speaker 01

  So, but I don't think that necessarily matters that much. I think what matters to me is that these psychedelics, they can definitely show you that something else is possible, that will then put you in a trajectory, hopefully, towards engaging with that thing more. So they can open the door, but doing the work, you know, you, this is a daily thing. Like maybe then a person would be more open to do meditation. Maybe that person would be more open to pay attention to his or her loved ones, which actually changes your moment to moment experience. When you connect with your community, it creates a different person.

• 2:15:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:58Speaker 01

  If you're not socially isolated, you have a different kind of stride to you, right?

• 2:16:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:04Speaker 01

  Which also then opens the window to a deeper feeling of whatever it is that you're doing. So, um, I forget who said this, but I think it's brilliant and I think it's true. But we wouldn't be doing what we're doing to the earth if we could feel it in real time.

• 2:16:22Speaker 01

  So if I could feel what happens to the planet over time, or at least to the bi... it's not true to say to the planet because the earth will be here no matter what. But to, let's say to the biosphere, okay? If you would feel what you throwing away plastic just on the floor does on a massive scale over time, if everybody would do it all the time, if you could feel it in your body, you wouldn't be doing it.

• 2:16:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:46Speaker 01

  Okay, so that kind of a connection, I think, it definitely opens the door to that. You see what I'm saying?

• 2:16:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, definitely, that makes sense.

• 2:16:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think that that's what the psychedelics can do, but beyond that, it's up to us to actually put in the work, to actually do the practice. It's either meditative practice or connection practice, or get yourself into some kind of a skill set that you always wanted to get into, and then just go with that. Some people all of a sudden discover they really love mathematics. They just never had the guts to interact with it, right? To, to go deeper into what we really are, so we can add something to the collective, that kind of function. We are part of a collective. It's not just what I make in the end of the month. How does that, whatever I do, impact larger and larger sets of people and the planet and the biosphere and all of that?

• 2:17:35Speaker 01

  Again, the opening, the opening versus the closed attitude of like, who's out to get me?

• 2:17:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but that's also millions of years of evolution have gotten us to where we are now and the way we act in the world.

• 2:17:48Speaker 01

  And yet, we override it all the time. When you jump out of a plane, you override these millions of years of evolution that tells you, don't jump, you'll die.

• 2:17:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:17:58Speaker 01

  But because you have a certain certainty about things that we've created, like parachutes, right, you still do it because the thrill of the fear is something that you now enjoy. In the context of, oh, I know that whatever it is that we created now can protect me even though every impulse in my body tells me, don't do it. The same thing with intermittent fasting, right?

• 2:18:20Danny Jones?

  Same way we're jumping into cold water.

• 2:18:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want to do it, but you know the... So you can definitely over, by, by, by putting the right emphasis on things, you can definitely override your entire genome.

• 2:18:30Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that's what we need to do collectively. There's certain things, don't venture outside the village. That's a very deep entrenched fear, right?

• 2:18:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:39Speaker 01

  Not only from the dangers out there, but from the ridicule back home.

• 2:18:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:45Speaker 01

  Where if you're the one that did venture, now look what a fool you are. We told you, we told you don't go out there. And look at you, now you don't have an arm. You deserve it.

• 2:18:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:55Speaker 01

  That's a very deep fear, right? Because not only you're gonna venture out there and you're gonna get hurt maybe. You're gonna come back and you're gonna get no glory for it and only ridicule.

• 2:19:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:05Speaker 01

  That's a ve- it's a double edged sword. Like, well, actually, no, it's like a, like, it's just, there's no winning here, right? And yet, people still do it and we are the descendants of the people who, only of the people that did this. Only the people that ventured outside the village, we are the descendants of.

• 2:19:20Danny Jones?

  Right. Isn't it, isn't it interesting? I don't know how familiar you are with like, um, the classical period and like ancient Greeks? And their experi- and the, the, the different, um, mystery cults that they, there were that were basically dedicated to doing drugs in antiquity?

• 2:19:37Speaker 01

  I've heard of this, yeah.

• 2:19:37Danny Jones?

  That was respons- and then, I, I had a, a gentleman in here who basically did a, um, he did his PhD dissertation on the use of drugs in antiquity with the, the Romans and the Greeks using drugs.

• 2:19:49Speaker 01

  What's his name again?

• 2:19:50Danny Jones?

  Uh, Amen Hillman.

• 2:19:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:19:52Danny Jones?

  And, um, he, uh, you know, he basically discovered that recreational drugs were everywhere back in the day. And he believed that the use of drugs in antiquity were responsible for the explosion of intellect and art and philosophy and creativity and science, um, democracy, the scientific method, all that stuff.

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:13Danny Jones?

  And, um, he, you know, he, what he does is he basically goes back and he reads all these ancient texts, these, these, these plays, the, the philosophy, the medical texts. And by, through reading the medical texts is how he discovered all of this evidence of drug use and drug experimentation back then. And, um, it seems like, it seems like, you know, since then, 200, 300 B.C. until now, it's, you know, we went through the dark ages from 1400 to like, uh, or from, I think it was from.

• 2:20:48Danny Jones?

  900 to 1400 essentially until we got to the Enlightenment. And all of that sort of dissipated and stagnated and went away. But it feels like we were on a different trajectory in that period of time. During that classical period when we had people like Plato and Socrates and

• 2:21:10Danny Jones?

  all of these just gigantic minds that were responsible for creating some of the things that we still use today, like the scientific method.

• 2:21:21Speaker 01

  So I'm actually,

• 2:21:24Speaker 01

  I have, I'm not sure it's an opposing thought.

• 2:21:27Speaker 06

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• 2:22:28Speaker 01

  But I think it's a thought that maybe gives a different context to the same thing you just said. I think that our minds are

• 2:22:37Speaker 01

  with, these minds are with us today. They're here. It's just that somehow in the last, and this is very recent, I think in the last 10 or 20 years, somehow we stopped valuing elevating these minds.

• 2:22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think what happens is, and this is somewhat ironic. I think that the thing that actually leads to the demise of a civilization. It's not all the things that we tend to think of today, which is like, well, you know, don't fly too close to the sun. Maybe we should stop playing with this. It's actually the opposite of that. What gave, what led to the demise of all these ancient civilizations that were great civilizations. Rome, you know, like throughout, like all of them.

• 2:23:22Speaker 01

  Is the fact that eventually people got too scared to proceed. And that's the thing that killed that civilization. It's actually the opposite of that. It's all these voices that seem to say, hey, don't venture, don't venture out of the village. On a different scale now, they're the ones that killed the civilization eventually. Because the danger will come and find you wherever you are. If you're gonna stay in the village, wolves will still come to the village. It's by venturing out, you discover new ways by keeping danger at bay in a better and better way.

• 2:23:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, all these guys were persecuted and literally executed and sent to prisons for this stuff.

• 2:24:03Speaker 01

  Which ones back then?

• 2:24:04Danny Jones?

  Like Socrates and some of these guys, some of these people, yeah.

• 2:24:06Speaker 01

  In some cases.

• 2:24:07Danny Jones?

  By the church.

• 2:24:08Speaker 01

  But in some cases by the church, right? So the, so, so that's exactly what I'm saying, that the church. And again, this, it's kind of hard to see because it's coded in this other vibe, but I do.

• 2:24:18Danny Jones?

  If you believe in, and depending on what your beliefs are on Jesus, you know, literally executed.

• 2:24:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, literally, yeah.

• 2:24:23Danny Jones?

  For being some sort of prophet.

• 2:24:24Speaker 01

  Exactly. So when you think of it, the people that are, would very much align with the message of Jesus. Are now the Catholic Church.

• 2:24:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:24:35Speaker 01

  They are the ones that are doing the burning in a different way. They basically, in a very sophisticated way, they say, don't, don't do this. So imagine, just to entertain the thought for a second, I'm not necessarily saying it is the case, but let's play that game.

• 2:24:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:49Speaker 01

  Let's pretend that AGI is actually our salvation. It's actually our Jesus.

• 2:24:56Speaker 01

  And yet we're scaring ourselves shitless from it. And eventually, right before it becomes a possibility to actually free us. We kill it because we're scared.

• 2:25:11Speaker 01

  And that's exactly what happened to Jesus.

• 2:25:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Do you think it's possible that AGI is gonna save us?

• 2:25:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:25:21Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:25:22Speaker 01

  Yes. I think it's our only way out.

• 2:25:26Danny Jones?

  You don't think that it's gonna essentially render us obsolete? When it gets merged with stuff like quantum computing? And basically, we're basically meaningless to them?

• 2:25:39Speaker 01

  No, do you know why?

• 2:25:40Danny Jones?

  Why?

• 2:25:41Speaker 01

  Cause it's us.

• 2:25:46Danny Jones?

  What do you mean by that?

• 2:25:47Speaker 01

  We are AGI.

• 2:25:54Danny Jones?

  I'm not following.

• 2:25:55Speaker 01

  You and I, and everything that humanity is, is the AGI that we're so scared of. And all the things now that we call AI, they're just extensions of what we are. And we haven't learned how to fully integrate them and wear them as a suit yet. But we're basically, yeah. So now they feel external, they feel something else, but they're not, they're us. So essentially, you have information evolving from the beginning of time.

• 2:26:23Speaker 01

  That information eventually finds new ways and new degrees of freedom to operate in different kinds of spaces. This is the best way that information found to operate in our little corner of the universe. This idea, you know, this whole transhumanist idea of like, oh, you just want humans to go away and be replaced by something else. That's what the history of everything in the universe is. Why, why, why do we think for one second that what we are is so special? So it's the opposite of what it tries to express. So this whole movement is trying to express humility, right? It wants to say, hey, who do you think we are? We're nothing in comparison to everything.

• 2:27:08Speaker 01

  When in reality, by doing that, you're essentially isolating yourself and you're saying, look, we're special. We're so special that we can be called different outside of nature. Saying, well, that's unnatural, because that's just made in a lab. Well, wait a second. You are nature. You are the universe doing whatever it is you're doing in a lab. If you think you're somehow outside of that. Right. Now you think you're actually special. But you're not. You're just part of the tapestry of whatever's going on. Plastic, pollution, all of that is completely natural. Now, so all I'm saying is that that's a bad distinction. You can still talk about things that can lead to a better and worse kind of experience in a particular environment.

• 2:27:50Speaker 01

  Is it better or worse to have the whole world filled with smoke? Worse. Yeah. Because of what we understand about how living things operate. And there's a much better way to operate, right? But it has nothing to do with what's natural and unnatural. Right. What this eliminates is this delusion that somehow we're outside of nature. There's nature and then there's us. And we're the disease. Right. And that kind of thinking is actually the thing that leads to your demise because you see yourself as the problem. Versus you're this very advanced thing that nature is doing, through which it now found a way to build a bigger bridge through silicon. And now eventually you're gonna learn how to be merged with it. And then you don't become something else.

• 2:28:35Speaker 01

  You're exactly what you were the whole time. It's just that now you understand the full potential of what that thing is. In other words, if you ask yourself, if you imagine this AGI in a computer that we always imagine, Skynet, right? That thing becoming conscious inside of the computer and then runs and whatever. So if you ask yourself, how long would it take it to realize that it is this thing inside of a computer? And there's like all these people outside and whatever. How long would it take it to do that? Well, the answer in physical matter is four and a half billion years through the process of evolution until it reaches an advanced enough mind like our own that then realizes that it is it.

• 2:29:17Speaker 01

  And then it builds the higher cognitive bridges through whatever tools required, that it will become a collective. It will little like the internet, if you look at it, like the the whole spiritual idea, we're all one, right?

• 2:29:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:32Speaker 01

  Well, the internet is that.

• 2:29:35Speaker 01

  Now, the fact that we're utilizing it at the moment for, you know, all these like nonsense things like pornography and like all this, these are just products of the previous stage of evolution.

• 2:29:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:29:48Speaker 01

  But the tool is not the problem. It's the content we inject into the tool. So if we utilize the internet to remove all this nonsense, and we just use it for like a global communication system of deep meaning, profundity, connection, exchanging ideas that can lead to like larger understandings of what is possible, how to fix global warming, all of these things. Now the tool is not so bad. It's just what is our value system? Who are we really in relationship to the world is determined by our value systems.

• 2:30:24Speaker 01

  A value system is the thing that guides us towards this direction or this direction. There's no guarantees, by the way.

• 2:30:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:30:29Speaker 01

  But what I'm saying, this is inevitable, not because it's already bigger than us and faster than us, like Yuval Naharari keeps saying, right? It's it's inevitable because it is us.

• 2:30:40Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:30:41Speaker 01

  You can't escape what you are.

• 2:30:42Danny Jones?

  Right, but I think the scariest part about it is that until it becomes its own thing, that somebody, somebody with nefarious intentions is gonna be the one that controls that.

• 2:30:52Speaker 01

  Sure, sure. No guarantees.

• 2:30:54Danny Jones?

  Just like with the like the beginning of uh Google's AI. What was it called again? Um, what was Google's AI? Whatever it was, Oracle, is that what it was?

• 2:31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:02Danny Jones?

  When like they injected all of this woke stuff into like you search for Julius Caesar, and they'd pull up like a black Julius Caesar or whatever, like a 300 pound overweight black Julius Caesar, just to like inject some sort of idea. That's what I'm saying, like, how do you know, like, the the scariest part is human beings in our ape form with the the way we think now, injecting that into something that's so powerful. It could destroy us.

• 2:31:28Speaker 01

  Imagine we're flying a spaceship. It's flying in one direction. It's flying really, really fast. You have a pilot in there that has to pay all the all the attention on moving through this very, very, very...

• 2:31:43Speaker 01

  Narrow entrance or something, right? The spaceship can't, let's pretend the spaceship can't stop, it's just going forward and that's it. So the argument that people are having is like, should we slow down this ship that cannot slow down? Okay, the only thing you should be focusing on is going through that narrow entry.

• 2:32:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:05Speaker 01

  In order to do that, you have to fully be immersed in the task. You cannot, you cannot disperse your attention towards worrying and like, it just, that's the thing that's gonna make you hit the wall. You have to focus on how you go, how you do that. It's inevitable.

• 2:32:22Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:32:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:32:23Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 2:32:23Speaker 01

  That's all I'm saying.

• 2:32:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:32:25Speaker 01

  Now, time will tell, if, of course, I'm not claiming to be some kind of a omnipotent being here and to know that that is necessarily the answer. My strong intuition, that is the case. And we're about to discover that that is the case. I think that the big discovery is that we're, there is no thing that is gonna arise in the system from the other side.

• 2:32:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I see, I see what you're saying, but it's like the, the amount of people that are focusing on this stuff full time, fully focused on it, are, are, there's so few people that are doing that and the majority and the people that like, if you wanna look at Silicon Valley and the people that are working at these companies, developing things like working on AI and ChatGPT and, and or even all these social media companies that are the big, basically, they have more money than most countries in the world.

• 2:33:09Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:33:10Danny Jones?

  They are focusing all of their attention on, I mean, first of all, these are huge corporations, giant bureaucracies of people with

• 2:33:21Danny Jones?

  their own personal aspirations, trying to climb their ranks into a company to make more money, to please people that sit on top of this board, right? Members of the board. And essentially, their only goal is to get people to spend more time on their platforms, to be stuck in their lizard brains, mindlessly scrolling through pointless content for them to create more money.

• 2:33:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:33:45Danny Jones?

  For the wrong meat, like the wrong ends.

• 2:33:47Speaker 01

  So the only answer is.

• 2:33:48Danny Jones?

  All of this, all of this human power and human potential is, is aimed at the completely wrong target.

• 2:33:55Speaker 01

  You're absolutely right. So the only way out of this is to adopt an attitude based on a completely different value system fast enough that even these people at the top would actually not think like that. And actually think, okay, I have enough, we have enough, how do we now work towards the global goal versus just my personal goal? How do you, that's what I meant by the opening, like, how do you open to that? Right? It's a big challenge.

• 2:34:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:25Speaker 01

  So now.

• 2:34:25Danny Jones?

  But then you have people like Bill Gates that think they want to do that. They want to global it, the globalists.

• 2:34:30Speaker 01

  Again, yeah, yeah, yeah. And frogs are gay. Well, maybe we bring the gay frogs to do it. So it's.

• 2:34:35Danny Jones?

  Right. The World Economic Forum, they want to make the world better, right? They want to make a.

• 2:34:39Speaker 01

  The only, here's the thing, yeah, the, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, right?

• 2:34:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:34:43Speaker 01

  Well, you, you will never have a perfect situation with guarantees. You're just gonna have what it is and then what can you do next? So I think it's just a level of magnification. Because if you think about the alternative, right? What is the alternative? The alternative is like, all right, we shut the whole thing down. Hey, let's say we could do it today. Let's say somehow we could. Great. Should we? I'm saying, I'm saying no, because at some point you will have to do it again. Now, it's possible that maybe we're not ready and we do want to, okay, take a step back for a second. Let's figure ourselves out first. Okay. And then try again. Okay, I'm done with that. That's reasonable.

• 2:35:22Speaker 01

  But eventually you're gonna have to do it anyway, because no matter what you do, no matter how much you hold hands of sing kumbaya around a campfire, eventually the sun will become a red giant and will engulf the earth with everything else on it, talking about global warming.

• 2:35:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:36Speaker 01

  Right? So that's an intelligence test that eventually you're gonna have to cross either way. And you have to start at some point. Now, people say, oh, but that's in 2 billion years. So what? The, it, it's inevitable. So unless, if you think that the civilization should only live as long as its star.

• 2:35:55Speaker 01

  Okay, then, cool, no problem, then just live as long as the star. But I think, look at all this real estate out there. I think that things like us arise for a reason. The reason that we can build artifacts that can go to space, the reason that we can interact with this higher knowledge that some people now demonize and say, no, this is just like, you know, you just, it's for your own personal gain. It's the only reason you care about it. No, I think it's actually the same self-preservation.

• 2:36:19Danny Jones?

  They're saying that about what?

• 2:36:20Speaker 01

  About technology, about science, right? And I think it's the same preservation that we had from the beginning of time. It just takes a different form and a much larger form. Don't sail into this ocean, you're gonna fall off the face of the earth. Sounds familiar?

• 2:36:35Speaker 01

  Same thing. Now, does that mean that there are no dangers in the ocean? No, of course there are. Some people will die. People die all the time. This happens all the time. Does that mean we necessarily, we're guaranteed to survive as a civilization? No, civilization destroyed 99% of the time, right? It's the norm. We have the potential to finally escape the norm. But in order to do that, we have to, what I think, is to relinquish a lot of our fears and to actually connect to something deeper inside of ourselves. And yes, I know how this sounds, but to understand that there's a deeper picture here that involves us, but we're not the only player in it. So, the best way to put it is like, imagine the, you know, we're kind of like,

• 2:37:19Speaker 01

  just becoming young adults as a civilization. And we're kind of starting to understand that maybe just banging on everything and doing whatever we want, maybe not the way to go. Maybe we start to understand why you should clean your room versus just being told we should clean our room. And also understanding that we, what responsibility is. And maybe, what is the career that we want in the universe? What are we gonna be?

• 2:37:41Speaker 01

  And there are adults looking at us, observing very carefully if we are.

• 2:37:48Speaker 01

  Wise enough to enter that space. So I think that's what's going on.

• 2:37:54Danny Jones?

  Who do you think the adults are?

• 2:37:56Speaker 01

  You can call them the simulators, you can call it the management company. Whomever is responsible for this immediate layer after us.

• 2:38:01Danny Jones?

  Do you think the things that are flying around and flying saucers are the adults?

• 2:38:08Speaker 01

  I don't know what they are. I've never seen a connection between the DMT space and that space personally. But the timing of it is just too impeccable. So I do think they're connected, I just don't understand how. There might be, there might be protrusions from this higher dimension. I have no idea.

• 2:38:23Danny Jones?

  Well, there was more of it in the past than there is now, it seems like.

• 2:38:25Speaker 01

  You mean what? You mean?

• 2:38:26Danny Jones?

  Like UFOs and aliens.

• 2:38:28Speaker 01

  In the past, you mean 60 years ago? You mean 2,000 years ago?

• 2:38:30Danny Jones?

  I mean, during the Cold War, 40s, 50s and 60s.

• 2:38:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:38:39Danny Jones?

  When we were testing nuclear bombs.

• 2:38:40Speaker 01

  So here, this is a perfect example, right? I think that if you want to bring it to a functional level, the only thing that matters, what is your personal attitude towards all of these things? Because how are we all implied in this? People tend to listen to all of these different things that are fascinating. I agree, they're amazing, right? UAPs and spiritual stuff and all of that stuff. But they usually look at it as a spectator. They never feel like they're an actual participator. They feel like it's a TV, it's a show. And I think that's why the problem persists. Because people, that they're watching something, you're watching a show. Your tendency is to always like, don't go in that room, right?

• 2:39:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:39:20Speaker 01

  But you, that's not going to change anything. The person is going to do what they're going to do in the movie, right? But if you understand that you are a participator in this game, then the emphasis becomes from pointing to looking inwards. And that is the only thing that can actually radically change the world. Instead of thinking what Bill Gates is going to do by thinking, well, he has all the power. I have no power. Well, guess what? Unless you can change something about your own behavior, how you greet, like people would like, you know, criticize Elon Musk and Bill Gates and it was like, and then as they're doing this, literally in real time, they won't even realize somebody's going to cut them in traffic because maybe their baby was sick and they're going to the hospital. And they're all, ah, piece of shit, you know?

• 2:40:02Speaker 01

  That's a much bigger problem. Right. Because everybody are doing this. Yeah. Right? But second ago, you were criticizing all these people that would put so much work into making things that you now use every day. And because they did this one move that somebody on a radio show said something about you, like, oh, I know what they're up to. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's absurd. Yeah. The point is, you can only control yourself. You can only control your actual state. So if you, as not, that's, you can criticize anybody you want, but as long as you're not paying attention to yourself as well, and how you operate, how you talk to your mother, how you, how you treat your friends, how you do things when nobody's looking. That's the thing that's going to change the world. Or, to be more accurate, that's the only thing that has the potential to truly change the world.

• 2:40:46Speaker 01

  And by the way, it's very easy to slide off of it. But even in the name of like, all the good things, you know, like, no, let's build an eco-village, and just take care of the earth, and just, yes, that's beautiful. You should do all of that. It's beautiful. But at the same time, the attitudes that a lot of these communities take towards things that are very hard to do, that they use all the time, like phones, and like, you know, they criticize it as if it's the work of Satan. Like, you know, oh, technology will be the end of us. It's like, well, you use it all the time. It vilifying things, being scared of them. This is going to be the end of us. This is going to be the end of us. Listen, if it's going to be the end of you, it's going to be the end of you. Don't worry about it.

• 2:41:29Speaker 01

  How about right now, just enjoy this moment? Actually say I love you to whomever you love. Actually understand that somebody cut you in traffic. Yes, they might have had selfish reasons, but maybe they had some justified reasons. You will never know. You getting upset at that person without them ever knowing about it makes no difference whatsoever, but it makes you feel not great. And then you take that with you throughout the day. And then you talk like that to somebody in the office. And then they pick up on that, and they talk to somebody else like that. And that's the real problem. Hmm. Because if eventually, if you, if you do this on a regular basis, you, you, even if you don't teach it to your kids directly, they pick up on it, on that energy. And then they behave that way. And then they, and then everybody behaves that way.

• 2:42:13Speaker 01

  Change yourself, right? I know it's so trite, we've heard this a billion times, be the change you want to see in the world. That's the only way, literally the only way. That's what I mean by we will also understand that it's us. Because these technologies, they're a reflection of what we are inside.

• 2:42:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:42:27Speaker 01

  That's it. And then whatever Bill Gates is gonna do, if everybody, everybody values something else, guess what? They can put all the pornography they want online, but if you don't care about it, they're gonna stop.

• 2:42:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:40Speaker 01

  Because you're not gonna click on it. So it's not there, it's right here. That's the deeper point.

• 2:42:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. That's a great way to end this, man.

• 2:42:51Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:42:51Danny Jones?

  Very profound. Um, thanks again. This was, this was fascinating.

• 2:42:54Speaker 01

  It was amazing.

• 2:42:55Danny Jones?

  I'm gonna have to watch it like three more times to fully understand it.

• 2:42:58Speaker 01

  I appreciate it. Also, it, uh, thank you for the opportunity and, uh, this is the first time, actually, no, that's not true. I did another podcast in the beginning, uh, the first podcast I've ever done. So my podcast, which is great, but it was just audio. It's the first time I'm doing it live with somebody. Um, and

• 2:43:14Danny Jones?

  I think it's better this way.

• 2:43:16Speaker 01

  Oh, I, I agree. Yeah. That's, that's, that's how I do mine. I try to and, and I appreciate, I really appreciate you took the time and for trusting, for doing the, you know, the thing. And yeah, man, I'm, I really love what you're doing as well.

• 2:43:29Danny Jones?

  Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Where, where can people find out more about your film and what you're working on?

• 2:43:34Speaker 01

  Uh, so you can always go to my channel, Dango Thoughts, D A N G O Thoughts. Uh, or TikTok, it's Danny Goler. Um, yeah, there you go. Uh, you, uh, in the trailer, you have all the information about, you can donate to the, uh, GoFundMe for the film. We do have some private investors that are now interested, uh, to put some money in. But we're also relying on people donating because, you know, making a movie is not cheap. Uh, that's where you can find out about the movie and about more things that I'm doing. Uh, yeah, those will be the, those will be the main two.

• 2:44:08Danny Jones?

  That's really cool. And you're actually, uh, having like conversations like a podcast with people on here.

• 2:44:12Speaker 01

  That's how it started. Yeah, yeah. I had Gallimere recently. I had Alexander Boehner. That was one of the participants in the DMTX project. Yeah. So a lot of fun conversations and I'm going to bring a lot more. And again, shout out to Aaron Vanden, who was just like,

• 2:44:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:26Speaker 01

  powerhouse, man. This guy is just unbelievable, truly.

• 2:44:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah. You said he made that trailer in like four days?

• 2:44:32Speaker 01

  Four days, man. Like we just need to re-listen in a while. And I'm so excited about everything that we're doing together. So, yeah.

• 2:44:37Danny Jones?

  That's really cool, man. Well, thank you again for coming down and talking to me and, uh, thank you for, uh, showing us that experience last night. That was fucking life-changing.

• 2:44:45Speaker 01

  You got it, brother.

• 2:44:45Danny Jones?

  Cool. All right. Good night, everybody.

• 2:44:49Speaker 03

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