619 Experience Your Ultimate Potential with Rich Roll

“My desire was to figure out a way to impact the most number of people in the most meaningful way possible.” Success can have a very tricky definition. You can have the ideal job, make a decent salary, have that sports car you always wanted, and still not really be successful. To truly be happy, the ultimate meter for success, you need to be doing things that fill you up. Finding your passion in the world can be the difference between struggling to get out of bed in the morning and being excited to get the day started. Sometimes you need to stop and ask if you’re really chasing the life you want or chasing something someone else wants of you. This is a lesson that was hard learned by my latest guest, Rich Roll. Rich Roll has been on my show twice before, and it was a pleasure having him back. He battled with an alcohol addiction that ruined his life from the age of 17 to the age of 31, when he finally went to a treatment center. Most people only spend 28 days there. He ended up spending 100. When he got out, he changed his life. He pursued a career most people would consider ideal and made a great living. The problem was, it wasn’t the life he wanted and it took a toll on him physically. After having a brush with death in his late 30s, he began living his life for him. Since then, he’s become a successful athlete, motivational speaker, podcast host, and all around incredible human being. You can hear all about his incredible journey and his plans for the future, on Episode 619. Some Questions I Ask: What are some challenges you’ve experienced since this book originally came out? (8:25) What’s the biggest lesson your wife taught you? (13:58) Do you think your 45 year old self would be proud of your 51 year old self? (16:56) Do you think you’ll be doing your podcast for another 5 years? (18:56) Do you think you’ll do a race again at 60? (27:50) If someone is looking to improve their life, what one aspect is the most important to start with? (35:48) Food does something to our physical makeup? (38:57) Why did you stay in the treatment center for so long? (39:56) How has your relationship evolved over the last 20 years? (48:00) What’s the big lesson that you try to teach your kids? What’s the biggest lessons you learned from your parents? (53:57) In This Episode You Will Learn: The biggest personal challenge for Rich the last 5 or 6 years (12:32) How Rich sees his story different now than he did when he first wrote the book (15:13) The thing Rich is most proud of over the last 7 years (18:13) The viking endurance race Rich did last year (21:10) Rich’s long battle with alcoholism (42:13) The journey of Rich’s marriage (46:34) How being a recovering addict taught Rich about being compassionate to others (49:36) The biggest challenge of being a parent (52:52) The biggest challenge Rich is facing right now (54:38) Plus much, much more Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 619 with bestselling author Rich Roll. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:32Lewis Howes?

  Jeff Bezos said, "What's dangerous is not to evolve." I'm super excited about this episode with my good friend, Rich Roll. He's been on a couple of times before, but it's been a long time. Episode number 10 was the first time he was on, and then back in the 100. So if you haven't heard of him, he is a world-renowned vegan ultra endurance athlete. He's got an incredible story. He's a bestselling author, wellness advocate, motivational speaker, podcast host, huge podcast, husband, father of four, and an inspiration to people worldwide as a transformative example of courageous and healthy living.

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  He's been featured everywhere, CNN, Los Angeles Times, Men's Health Living, Men's Fitness Magazine. And in 2009, he was named 25 Fittest Men in the World. He just republished and updated a version of his bestselling memoir, Finding Ultra. And he's got a new vegan cookbook called The Plant Power Way Italia, which is out right now. And we went into some inspiring topics, really the journey that Rich has gone over the last 15, 20 years, from being a recovering addict, extreme alcoholic, to transforming his life, becoming completely overweight, almost having a heart attack when he was in his late 30s, to transforming his health and his diet

• 2:00Lewis Howes?

  and nutrition, workout plan, everything, to where he's at now, to almost going bankrupt a couple of times after these transitions, and so much in between. And we talk about what it looks like to trust the process when things are extremely tough in your life. Also, why it's so important to delegate so you don't burn out yourself. Why committing to a big challenge brings out the best in all of us. And when we don't have some type of challenge or bigger goal in our life, The challenges that will come when we don't have that challenge. Also, what to focus on if you are ready to make a shift in your health? And what recovering from addiction teaches you about compassion for others?

• 2:45Lewis Howes?

  We talked about all these things and so many more powerful things. And I hope you enjoy this one. And if you're listening, make sure to take a screenshot of this right now and post it up on Instagram, on your Instagram story, at Lewis Howes and at Rich Roll to let us know that you're listening to it and let your friends know to check it out as well. It's episode number 619. And before we dive in, want to give a shout out to the fan of the week. We like to celebrate people who listen to the podcast. You know, we have millions of downloads every single month from people all over the world. And I want to celebrate you guys. So the more people that share and comment and leave reviews, we acknowledge you for being a fan of the week. And if you haven't left a review, make sure to leave one right now.

• 3:25Lewis Howes?

  And this one's from Myra Zayas, who said, "After we got hit by two major hurricanes in Puerto Rico, I needed to hear positive and inspiring message to help me get up and be motivated again with my dreams of having my own ceramic shop. In that search, I found this podcast and I'm grateful for it." Thank you, Lewis. So Myra, thank you so much for that. You are the fan of the week and super inspired to hear that you were able to get through those challenging times in Puerto Rico. And glad to hear you guys are safe and you're recovering and you're on to living your dreams again. So congratulations and thanks so much for listening and supporting the School of Greatness podcast.

• 4:08Lewis Howes?

  All right, guys, I'm super pumped about this one. Again, it's all about experiencing your ultimate potential. Doesn't matter what age you are, you're going to hear an incredible story right now with the one, the only Rich Roll.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  Rich Roll is in the house, everybody. Super pumped you're here, man.

• 4:29Rich Roll?

  Good to see you.

• 4:29Lewis Howes?

  Good to see you. Nice haircut.

• 4:31Rich Roll?

  Thank you for coming to my home.

• 4:32Lewis Howes?

  Yes, we've switched sides.

• 4:34Rich Roll?

  I know.

• 4:34Lewis Howes?

  We've switched sides.

• 4:35Rich Roll?

  For people that are just listening, I'm sitting in Louis's chair. And for people on YouTube, it's gonna be a little jarring, I think, that I took over the seat.

• 4:43Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 4:44Rich Roll?

  You know, to join you. But it's good to see you. I wanted to say at the outset, before we even get into it, that I really appreciate you having me on. I think this is my third time.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  Third time.

• 4:53Rich Roll?

  On the podcast.

• 4:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Rich Roll?

  And as we talked about on my show, like, we go way back. We started around the same time. And I know how it is when past guests kinda hit you up and say, hey, can I come back on again? And it can be awkward, so it's no small thing that you're having me back on.

• 5:06Lewis Howes?

  Of course, man. I appreciate you. Yeah, you were on in 2013. You were episode 10.

• 5:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 5:12Lewis Howes?

  2013, then 2015, episode 169, and now 600-something, so.

• 5:18Rich Roll?

  600, wow. I'm at 356, so you've almost doubled my...

• 5:25Rich Roll?

  Wow, yeah, that's interesting.

• 5:27Lewis Howes?

  It's been a fun evolution for both of us. You're a little more than five years. You're like five and a half years, I think, right now.

• 5:32Rich Roll?

  I think so, about five and a half, yeah.

• 5:33Lewis Howes?

  Five and three months, I think it is, because it was five at the end of January. So it's been a crazy journey, right?

• 5:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 5:40Lewis Howes?

  I look over here at the wall, like, some of the people I've had on. We gotta get a photo of you up there now. We don't have one up there. And it's just like, so many lessons learned. And it sounds like, it sounds like to me, there are a lot of lessons you've learned since you wrote the first edition of Finding Ultra Till. Now it's coming out with 100 new-plus pages and a lot of lessons, where you're talking about before. You know, after the book came out, the first time, you almost lost your house, you were saying, which I didn't even know that. And there was other challenges. What were the other challenges you've learned in the last five years, since originally this book coming out?

• 6:14Rich Roll?

  So many, setting aside everything I've learned as a result of doing the podcast, as you know, like having these amazing people sit across from you and you get to hold them hostage and ask them everything you want to ask them. I mean, I can't even begin to unpack like how much that's impacted me in a positive way. I mean, it's just been an insane journey. I don't think either of us could have ever predicted that A, we'd still be doing this. You know, I didn't know that I would still be doing this. Or that, you know, what we've sort of built with our respective, you know, audiences would have grown to the extent that it has. So super grateful for that journey. And yeah, you know, I started the podcast shortly after this book came out, which was in May of 2012. I started the podcast in November of that year. And it was really my intention, you know, I didn't even know if I would do a second

• 6:59Rich Roll?

  episode, but once I kind of got rolling, it was an opportunity to just continue the conversation that I think this book began. And one of the kind of core themes of this book, a lot of people sort of mistook it as a book about running or how to be a better triathlete. It's really not about that. It's about how to basically better self-actualize, how to become, you know, the best, most authentic version of yourself, however that looks for you. And my story is intended really as a metaphor for, you know, I think the unlimited potential that we all have. But one of the themes is that when your heart is true, that the universe will conspire to support you.

• 7:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:38Rich Roll?

  And when this book came out, I put everything in into like pushing it out into the world and let go of practicing law. My background is in corporate law and I thought, okay, I'm going all in on trying to sort of create some kind of profession out of promoting these ideas that are important to me, whether it's speaking or writing another book or whatever that may look like. I wasn't really sure at the time, but I thought, okay, my heart is pure. This is the theme of the book. I'm putting myself out there. I'm stepping out and I'm waiting for that universal signal of support. And I gotta tell you, like, it didn't really come. I was like, Phone's not ringing. What am I gonna do? Money was running out. And, you know, I could go do a speaking gig for free

• 8:22Rich Roll?

  or maybe do a little thing here or there.

• 8:25Lewis Howes?

  Try to slap some books or whatever, yeah.

• 8:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you know, and, you know, I have four kids. I've got a mortgage. So we went through a very difficult extended period of time that lasted a number of years. I mean, it was like five or six years of touch and go. Julie calls it, my wife calls it, our divine moment, where we were really brought to our knees and forced to really confront our attachment to material things like our house and our cars. We had two cars repossessed. Well, after this book came out, I mean, it's like, it was the weirdest juxtaposition because I was getting a bunch of attention and I was sort of in the, you know, in the media. And yet, at the same time, there was a lot of kind of suffering that we had to experience around how to kind of navigate what we were trying to accomplish and do

• 9:12Rich Roll?

  in the material world. And ultimately, you know, we really had to burn in that fire in order to kind of come out. And I think that required a tremendous amount of faith and persistence and really just being in the moment, like day to day, to try to figure out what the next step would be. But I think emerging from that, I mean, now everything's great. Like, my life is an embarrassment of riches and I have so much opportunity and it's insane. Like, I, you know, it's, it's hard, looking back, to even imagine what it was like back then. But I think it, it allows me to communicate, you know, with the people that are tuning into my channel and my frequency with a level of humility and honesty and, and just realness, really, because I know what it's like to kind of be in that place.

• 9:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Rich Roll?

  And that was one of the reasons why I wanted to rewrite the book, because I wanted to tell that story of what happened after Finding Ultra came out from 2012 to present, because I think those events are equally dramatic, if not more dramatic, and certainly more relatable to the average person than so many ultra endurance feats, you know, that are chronicled in the original version.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What would you say is the biggest personal challenge for you over the last five or six years?

• 10:23Rich Roll?

  I think... And this is a theme that you're, that you know well. Like, it really challenged my idea of what it means to be a man. Like, as a masculine human being, as a head of household. Not providing for your family. As somebody who is supposed to be a provider. Right. Somebody who's supposed to have all the answers. Somebody who's supposed to make their kids feel safe. And all of that was called into question because I was in a position where, for a period of time, providing for my family was a tremendous challenge. And I would not have made it through without the strength and support of my wife. I mean, there were many times where I was like, "Forget it, I'm going back to being a lawyer. I'm gonna, I'll get a job at a corporate law firm, whatever. Like, we gotta like, you know, we gotta like, take care of business here." And she's like, "No, you cannot do that.

• 11:08Rich Roll?

  Like, you've come so far, you cannot retreat. That's a, that's a move backwards. Like, the only way out of this is through. And I have your back. And if we have to say goodbye to our home, like, we're together, we're in love, we're with our kids, it's all gonna be fine." And it's easy to kind of say those things, but to actually live those things and, and weather that storm is a different matter altogether. And so it was because of her, in, in large part, that, you know, I even get to sit here and talk to you today. She's a pretty powerful woman. Yeah. It's inspiring. Yeah, she's, she's my biggest teacher, for sure. Really? What's the big lesson she's taught you? She just has, I mean, she is somebody who has, who has committed herself

• 11:53Rich Roll?

  from the get-go to always like, pushing the boundaries of her own personal evolution, like, personal growth. So whether it's spiritual, mental, emotional, like, incredibly well-read person and just somebody with an extreme amount of personal fortitude. Like, she's just an incredibly strong person and very convicted in her ideas. And so to have her as my partner, who not only... I mean, she's the reason I even wrote this book to begin with because, you know, I was a junk food addict, recovering alcoholic, like, very unhappy in my professional career, but she was always able to kind of see through that facade, that like heaviness that I was carrying around

• 12:35Rich Roll?

  to this better, more actualized person within, and she held the space for me to find that within myself, and that's a whole other story that's part of the book as well. But I think just that ability to kind of see the best in somebody, and not in a lip service kind of way, but in a very real fundamental way, is rare.

• 12:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's cool. Do you see your story different now than when you first wrote the book?

• 13:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, in so many ways. It's a weird thing, and I'm sure you can relate to this as well, Lewis. When you get asked to get on a stage and tell your story, or go on podcasts and, you know, "Tell me what happened," and, you know, you get into this space where you tell the story so many times that suddenly you think, and I don't know if you've had this experience, but I certainly have, you think like, "Is this story even true?" Like, I've told it so many times, that it's easy to kind of like distance yourself from it, and just spit it out because you've done it so many times. And so, I've had that experience where I've really had to think, okay, let me, what is the heart of the matter? Like, what is really true about this?

• 13:44Rich Roll?

  And what is just something I've said so many times that I think it's true? So, I'm constantly in the process of like deconstructing that and trying to examine it. And I think the process of getting up on stage and sharing my story with groups of people, large and small, has helped tell me what it is about my story that connects with people. And I think when I wrote the original version of the book, I thought the story was one thing, and in the process of telling it, I've realized so much more about myself.

• 14:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 14:12Rich Roll?

  And so, it's changed and morphed, not with respect to the facts of that experience, but I think what the emotional heart of it is.

• 14:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How old were you when you wrote the book? Forty-five, forty-six?

• 14:24Rich Roll?

  I think I was forty, when I was writing it, I was forty-four, forty-five.

• 14:29Lewis Howes?

  When it came out, forty-six?

• 14:30Rich Roll?

  So, in 2012, that was seven years ago. I'm 51 now.

• 14:34Lewis Howes?

  Forty-five, somewhere around there, forty-five.

• 14:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 14:36Lewis Howes?

  Do you think your 45-year-old self would be proud of your 51-year-old self?

• 14:42Rich Roll?

  Oh, for sure. You know, I mean, I've far exceeded my expectations for not just the books that I've written, but the level of impact that I've been able to have. I mean, my desire really was only to figure out a way to impact the most number of people in the most meaningful way possible. And I didn't know, like I said, exactly what that would look like or how I would manifest that. But to sit here today, you know, as a fellow podcaster and author, like, I just, you know, I can't even believe that I get to do what I get to do every day. Like, you know, I work really hard, as I know you do. It's like, I'm working all the time, but it doesn't feel like work. I get, is this, we're working

• 15:26Rich Roll?

  right now, right? Like, it doesn't feel like work. I would come over and hang out with you and do this, you know, anyway, if I had another job. So, very blessed to be able to do what I love and also provide for my family and impact people in a positive way. I mean, I can't think of anything that I would rather do with my life, but it's certainly not anything I would have dreamed that I would be doing. Like, if you asked me when I was 30, I mean, I couldn't even imagine. Like, I thought I was gonna be like a baller lawyer or a movie producer or something. So, it's weird.

• 15:58Lewis Howes?

  From all the stuff you've been able to do in the last seven years, what's the thing you're most proud of?

• 16:02Rich Roll?

  The thing I'm most proud of is that I know in my heart of hearts that I have shaped and impacted the way people lead their lives in a meaningful way. Whether that's one person, 100 people, 1,000 people, however many people it is, just the feedback that I get, I know, and I know you get emails like this as well, to receive really intimate, heartfelt letters from people saying, you know, "I tuned into your podcast," or "I read your book," and "this is where I was," and "these are the obstacles I faced," and "here's where I am today," and "thank you." I mean, that's a gift from the universe. There's nothing more meaningful or valuable to me, and it's a blessing.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. You've been doing the podcast for over five and a half years. Do you think you'll be doing it for another five years?

• 16:46Rich Roll?

  I don't know. You know, the promise I made to myself was I would do it until I started to get stale or sick of it, you know? And I actually ran up against that around December or January this year, where I was starting to feel a little bit burned out for the very first time. And I had to hit pause and really reflect on whether I wanted to keep doing it. And if so, how to configure, reconfigure the way that I was doing it so that I wouldn't have that approach. Because I want to approach every interview, every episode that I do with enthusiasm and excitement. So you've always been really good about delegating of this amazing team of people helping you. And we've had this conversation a lot of times where my Achilles heel is that I'm a

• 17:26Rich Roll?

  bit of a control freak and I try to like, you know, I get too in the weeds on the details. And so I've done a better job of delegating and building my own team and also focusing on the things that are most important that only I can do and letting other people handle the rest. And then batching the work, like I wasn't very systematic in my approach to it. So I ended up sort of working on it a little bit every single day and I felt like I was just drowning, you know? So I've now created a schedule that allows me some flexibility with my time and that's improved my perspective on the interview. So to answer your question, yeah, I'll do it as long as I feel like I'm adding value and I'm into it. The minute I start to feel like, ugh, another one, like then it's probably time to either

• 18:10Rich Roll?

  take a break or, you know, retire. But at some point, we're not going to be doing this when we're 70, right? At some point it's gonna end, I guess.

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  Larry King's still doing it.

• 18:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I guess, right?

• 18:19Lewis Howes?

  He's done 60,000 interviews.

• 18:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he takes breaks. Have you ever taken a break?

• 18:23Lewis Howes?

  Me, no. Not in five years.

• 18:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so I've never missed a week.

• 18:28Lewis Howes?

  I mean, I took a break. I went to Hawaii last week with no phone and no computer.

• 18:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's good.

• 18:32Lewis Howes?

  And what I'd worked enough to be.

• 18:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, then you gotta work a lot before you go.

• 18:37Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yeah. To batch it ahead. And now I gotta get caught back up again, so it's not like needing something for tomorrow.

• 18:42Rich Roll?

  Oh, we're getting lean.

• 18:43Lewis Howes?

  Which is always feels like that though, because we're doing two episodes a week anyways. So you can get banged, but then they're gone the next month, you know, so. You did this race last year, right? This crazy endurance race. It was like 46 miles, is that what it was? Through like the Galapagos Islands or something crazy like that.

• 19:01Rich Roll?

  I wish it was the Galapagos. The water would have been a little bit warmer. It was, uh, I did this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hadn't, I hadn't done an endurance challenge since Epic 5 in 2010, which is, you know, a big part of this book. And because in those intervening years, I was going through this dismantling period and trying to figure out like how to make my way. And I was very intent on, on creating a sustainable, professional approach to what I was doing. And so I achieved that.

• 19:29Lewis Howes?

  Because before, you were eating bad, having fast food.

• 19:31Rich Roll?

  Well, even, even prior to that. Like when I was, yeah, I mean, the story leading up to it, just to kind of catch people up who have no idea who I am. I was a corporate lawyer at age 39, 50 pounds overweight, junk food addict, basically classic couch potato, sliding into middle age on a crash course with lifestyle disease, depressed about my life. And, and also like having an existential crisis about like my career, my profession and what I was here to do. And that existential crisis sort of collided with a health scare shortly before I turned 40, where I had like a heart episode, walking up a simple flight of stairs. That really brought into focus this desire to change how I was living. And, and the inner, in the sort of following months and years, I overhauled my diet, adopted a plant-based diet, started getting fit again, went on and conquered

• 20:17Rich Roll?

  all these crazy ultra endurance challenges, wrote this book and like all this crazy stuff happened.

• 20:21Lewis Howes?

  Is that story even true anymore?

• 20:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah, see, like, that's the thing. Like I just told you the thumbnail that I've said a million times. And, you know, we can dissect it if you want, but it's probably outside the bounds of this. But then it was about like, okay, I'm doing the podcast. I'm built, I'm trying to create, you know, something sustainable.

• 20:37Lewis Howes?

  You're trying to build an audience that you can.

• 20:38Rich Roll?

  And also like, you know, on that theme of like, you know, my approach has always been like, how can I have the most impact? And if I'm out on my bike for eight hours or, you know, training all the time, then there's no podcast. There's no, you know, I'm not, I'm not serving my, my main, you know, sort of mission statement. But I turned 50 last year and I thought this is a good moment to race again because I wanted to prove that a 50-year-old dude, who also happened to be vegan or plant-based, could still go out and kill it. And I thought that that would serve the mission statement because there was a service aspect of that. So I committed to this race in Sweden. Americans would call it Otillo. The Swedish pronounce it "ötillä," which means island to island.

• 21:20Rich Roll?

  It's a 75-kilometer race that traipses across 52 islands, spread wide across the Stockholm archipelago and the Baltic Sea. Leading up to this race, I trained for it for about, I don't know, nine or 10 months. I decided I was going to share every single workout on Strava and on Instagram stories so people could join along. And they could see, like, I have bad days. Some days I didn't make training because something else happened and just be totally transparent about the whole thing, which was super fun. And then showed up in Stockholm. And this race is the weirdest thing. It's called Swim Run. This is the World Championships of something called Swim Run, which is an emerging sport, mostly in northern Europe. It's starting to find its way to the US, but nobody knows

• 22:02Rich Roll?

  about it here. And essentially, what you do is you swim and you run. And you do the whole thing in a wetsuit with your running shoes on. That's gotta be challenging. Swimming across these waterways and crawling up on granite rocks on all fours and scurrying across these little islands and then jumping back in the water and swimming again. You do this 52 transitions. It was like a 10-hour race and you do it in teams of two. So I did it with my coach, Chris Howth, my longtime coach. You have to stay within 10 meters of your teammate the entire time. You can't get too separated. And it was the hardest one-day race of my life. I mean, just the distance alone was challenging and the terrain was way more difficult than I imagined because on these islands, you're

• 22:44Rich Roll?

  not really running. It's more like an obstacle course thing. You're falling down on rocks. And the conditions that day were insane. There was sideways rain, just crazy rain. The swells, it was like six-feet swells in the water. It was bananas and freezing cold, frigid water in the Baltic. There was one... That's scary. You could drown. Well, this race, they would have never allowed this race to take place in the United States. Like, no insurance company would underwrite this thing. It's only like the Vikings, you know, who are like, "What's the big deal?" You know? The craziest part of that race was about... Two thirds of the way through, there's a swim section. It's one of the longest swim sections. It's called the pig swim. And it's about a kilometer across this waterway.

• 23:28Rich Roll?

  And it's the most exposed area of water on the whole race where there's no more islands. There's this Baltic Sea to your right. And the swells were so crazy. The boats that were out in the water, who are sort of charged with making sure everyone's safe.

• 23:41Lewis Howes?

  The safety boats?

• 23:42Rich Roll?

  Like, these boats, they're gonna capsize. Like, it was crazy. And I just remember halfway through, I kind of pulled up and looked around. Like, it's so disorienting because you're getting washed around like a washing machine and suddenly you're swimming the wrong way. And, you know, it's like, you don't know where you are. I just started laughing. I was like, what am I even doing out here?

• 24:01Lewis Howes?

  In the middle of the sea?

• 24:02Rich Roll?

  I'm a 50-year-old dude. Like, I'm in the middle of the Baltic. I'm getting washed. It's like, I can't even believe what is going on in my life that I'm here. It was just this moment of realization, like, that all these things that I had done and all the challenges that I had overcome had put me in this position to be in the midst of this totally insane adventure race that was just crazy. And it was great. I didn't have the greatest day, to be honest with you.

• 24:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you struggled.

• 24:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I definitely struggled.

• 24:28Lewis Howes?

  Was your coach and partner, was he, like, come on, let's go?

• 24:32Rich Roll?

  No, he was cool. I was like, from the get-go, I didn't sleep well. It's a whole thing. But like, you know, he was mellow. He's like, okay, well, it just is what it is. You know, he could have been two hours faster without me. Well, he's a world-class machine, yeah. But we were still the fastest American team and, you know, we finished, I don't even remember where we finished, like, 30th place or something like that. But, you know, it wasn't about that. It was just about having this experience and it was incredible. It was incredible to do it as a 50-year-old man and to show, like, I can still mix it up with, you know, these world-class athletes and do something that scared me because I hate cold water. Everything I had done prior was in Hawaii in warm water. And it was epic. And the best part of it was just that I got to share that whole experience with the people,

• 25:15Rich Roll?

  you know, that follow me on the various platforms and just demonstrate, like, look, I showed you exactly what I did every single day leading up to this. There's no magic, there's no mystery, you know, you saw the whole thing. And my hope with that is that it inspires other people to rethink their own limits and their own boundaries about what they're capable of.

• 25:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's powerful. You think you'll do it in 10 years at 60?

• 25:38Rich Roll?

  I don't know. We'll see.

• 25:39Lewis Howes?

  That would be sweet.

• 25:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, every time I do one of these things, I'm like, okay, I'm good for a while. You know, I'm not like racing all the time, but I am looking for, I'm on the cusp of committing to something.

• 25:49Lewis Howes?

  You need a challenge though. Every couple of months, every couple of years, you need a challenge probably.

• 25:53Rich Roll?

  I think you always need a challenge. I think when I'm committed to something like that, it gives my life structure and focus and it allows me to prioritize where I'm spending my energy and my attention. And when I don't have a goal like that, it's easier to just kind of go with the flow and I'm not as productive. So even though there's a huge time commitment with something like that, I tend to be more productive in everything else that I'm doing. I have a goal.

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  Isn't it funny? When we put bigger goals on our plate, everything else becomes productive. Because we have structure, we have time commitments and we can get things done. And it seems like even if we have more on our plate, as long as we have big goals that we're focused on, we just work around that. And when we have less on our plates or no goals, we kind of feel like we're lazier, we're not as structured and organized.

• 26:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's no question about it. I mean, when you have a goal and it's an important goal to you, then you're more likely to create boundaries over what you agree and don't agree to do, right? And so although, like I said, like, okay, that goal is going to require so much of my time and energy, it draws focus on everything else that you're doing. So then you don't, you're like, you're not on Facebook in the middle of the night. You're not binge watching Netflix. You're not just going out to lunch and whatever. Like you're like, okay, this is what I'm doing. And I'm just a happier, more productive person when I have that in my life.

• 27:12Lewis Howes?

  You know what I think you should do?

• 27:13Rich Roll?

  What?

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  I think you should, I think you should create your own race.

• 27:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I thought about that.

• 27:19Lewis Howes?

  You should create like, but it's different than the obstacle course races and just a marathon. But it's like your own spiritual journey that people go on that is still extremely physically demanding. Maybe there's a swim, there's a bike, there's a run, and there's some partner stuff, or whatever it is, but something that you get to be creative with and create an experience, but also get to train for and practice yourself, and then bring to life for your audience.

• 27:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's a good idea.

• 27:43Lewis Howes?

  It could be like an annual thing, once a year.

• 27:45Rich Roll?

  The only circumstances under which I would do that, Louis, is if you agree to participate.

• 27:51Lewis Howes?

  I will participate. Well, it depends how long it is. Here's the thing.

• 27:56Lewis Howes?

  If it's under 10 miles.

• 27:58Rich Roll?

  It's not gonna be under 10 miles.

• 28:01Rich Roll?

  Think about how much your audience would enjoy you preparing for something like that.

• 28:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I just gotta lose more weight, though, if I'm like such a big guy. How many miles would it be?

• 28:09Rich Roll?

  I don't know. The thing is, like, there's a lot of people that are doing that, and...

• 28:12Lewis Howes?

  But they're not you.

• 28:13Rich Roll?

  No, I know.

• 28:14Lewis Howes?

  It's not your experience. You have your fans that would come every year. Did it once a year.

• 28:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 28:18Lewis Howes?

  Didn't have to be like this monthly thing and travel around the world doing it, but do it once a year, where it was like an event and an experience, kinda like what, what's his name, Jesse did.

• 28:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, Jesse Itzler. Yeah, he started this new thing where he...

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Hundred mountain climbs.

• 28:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, he runs up the mountains and all that kind of stuff.

• 28:32Lewis Howes?

  Did you do that or no?

• 28:33Rich Roll?

  No, but...

• 28:34Lewis Howes?

  Something like that.

• 28:34Rich Roll?

  He was coming over to talk to me about it, like, I think next week or something like that. But I, you know, I'm keyed into it.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  I had a friend who did it, and he was like, it was, you know, painful and challenging, but also a really cool experience.

• 28:44Rich Roll?

  I think it was at Killington, the first one that he did, and then you just run, you run up and down the mountain until, until you've achieved the elevation of Everest or something.

• 28:52Lewis Howes?

  Everest.

• 28:52Rich Roll?

  Was it? Yeah.

• 28:53Lewis Howes?

  Everest.

• 28:53Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 28:54Lewis Howes?

  Whatever.

• 28:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. No, I think, I think it's a good idea.

• 28:58Lewis Howes?

  That'd be fun to do.

• 28:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Lewis Howes?

  I will, I will support it, and check it out first, see how the first year goes, and then...

• 29:06Rich Roll?

  All right, well, if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment below and let me know what you think that, that would look like, or, you know, hit me up.

• 29:11Lewis Howes?

  I think it'd be amazing, 'cause, 'cause I know you're doing retreats now.

• 29:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Lewis Howes?

  Which is different.

• 29:15Rich Roll?

  Those are more like transformation.

• 29:17Lewis Howes?

  Right, but imagine creating a transformational race.

• 29:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 29:21Lewis Howes?

  Experience, a journey. I'd be open to doing it.

• 29:24Rich Roll?

  Be very careful about your words right now, Louis.

• 29:26Lewis Howes?

  I'd be open to doing it. There's nothing else that I've wanted to do.

• 29:29Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 29:30Lewis Howes?

  Like the LA Marathon, my, my buddy Matt, he's like, "Let's do it every year," and I'm like, "I just could care less."

• 29:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:36Lewis Howes?

  But if it was something that was different and unique and like a journey.

• 29:38Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 29:39Lewis Howes?

  It's just a long... Endurance stuff is like hard for me.

• 29:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:42Lewis Howes?

  Like three miles.

• 29:42Rich Roll?

  But that's, that's what attracted me to ultra endurance to begin with because as difficult as those challenges are physically, they're really spiritual odysseys, you know? And at that point in my life, I was looking to connect with myself. I was looking to learn more about who I was and what made me tick. And when you train for these super crazy long races, you're just stripped down to your core, like until there's no, like all the, it's almost like an ayahuasca trip, like all the, all the artifice, like all that, that shell that you walk around with, your masks, you know?

• 30:16Lewis Howes?

  Come naked.

• 30:17Rich Roll?

  Describe, yeah. And you're confronted with yourself in a really profound way. And I learned so much about myself as a result of doing those. But on the other side of that, it's like, okay, I've learned those lessons. Do it like, do I still need to like go and do it? Like yes, no, I don't know. You know what I mean?

• 30:33Lewis Howes?

  Well, I think yes and no. Yes, you can keep doing it because there's always another evolution of where you can grow into. And I think when you stop, when you stop experiencing pain, a certain type of pain, I think you become very complacent in your life and you become lazier. And that's why what you do do is I think inspiring to me because I try to do something every single day that's painful. Like lately I've been getting up at 5:30 AM. I don't want to do it. It's painful.

• 30:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  I've been lifting in the morning. It's painful. I don't like it. I'd rather sleep in, you know, 10 hours a day. I'd rather do it. But I feel so much more productive when I inflict some type of pain in my life every single day.

• 31:12Rich Roll?

  Of course.

• 31:12Lewis Howes?

  Something I don't want to do. I'm comfortable. And that's why, you know, I think you inspire so many people with doing these endurance, long endurance races at the age you're at and running circles around people my age.

• 31:23Rich Roll?

  The thing though, that's so funny is that like I'll share like on Instagram stories. I go, here's the workout I did today. And people will be like, that's so inspiring. You got me out of bed. And I'm like, I'm like, actually I just prefer to do it. Like I choose to do it. Like I enjoy it. You know what I mean? And yeah, it's painful, but that's how you connect with yourself. And that's how I feel alive by pushing myself in that way.

• 31:45Lewis Howes?

  I think you'd be more impactful in the world when you have something, a challenge every couple of years that you're tackling. It doesn't have to be a 50 mile Balkan sea race or whatever, you know, that, that crazy, but something that you're just doing. I think you're going to be more impactful in the world than if you're just. Hey guys, here's what I did 10 years ago.

• 32:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course, yeah, I totally, I totally agree with you. And in many ways, like this book, it's like, these are, most of the stuff in here is stuff I did a long time ago.

• 32:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:14Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 32:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I think you should do it.

• 32:17Rich Roll?

  Alright.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  I'd be interested.

• 32:18Rich Roll?

  Alright, I'm gonna put some-

• 32:19Lewis Howes?

  I'll watch the first year and then maybe do it the second year.

• 32:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Like I said, be very careful.

• 32:25Lewis Howes?

  I know, it'll be extreme wannabe. Man, we talk a lot about exercise, meditation, and diet, both of us, the guests we have on. If someone is looking to improve their life and transform their life, and they wanted to get started with one aspect, diet, nutrition, physical exercise, and meditation, which one do you think should be? Obviously, all of them are equally important, but if they could only start with one for whatever reason, which one do you think is the most important to start with? Meditation, nutrition, physical exercise?

• 32:56Rich Roll?

  It's hard because they're so intertwined with each other, and it's hard to parse one from the other, so I'm reluctant or reticent to say one versus the other, but if you're forcing me to do that, I would say, um, focus on your diet first. You know, I think changing your plate and cleaning up the, the, the vibration of what you're putting into your body is a portal to the soul. And if you are intentional about that, and, um, you know, really focus on trying to eat real foods as close to their natural state, you know, in my case, I eat 100% plant-based diet.

• 33:37Rich Roll?

  If you're not ready to take that entire leap, just try to eat mostly fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, and beans, things like that. I think that that will be a catalyst for future growth in those other areas. And that was my experience. Like, I wasn't ready to meditate, or to, you know, return to becoming an athlete, or any of those things. I started with changing my relationship with food. And I think when you change that frequency of what you're putting into your body, it impacts you on every level, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, et cetera. And it is a catalyst for progressive growth from there. So I would start with that, and the more you kind of refine that, then suddenly you get interested because you suddenly have a higher sense of vitality.

• 34:22Rich Roll?

  You're like, oh, I feel like going out and moving my body. I haven't felt like that way. And so the fitness will naturally follow. And then you're like, wow, my body feels good and I'm taking care of it in this way. Like, how do I tend to my spirit and my emotions and my mind? Well, I guess I'll start exploring the world of meditation.

• 34:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I was watching this thing on Netflix called Chef's Table. Have you ever heard of this?

• 34:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  Have you ever watched it or not?

• 34:46Rich Roll?

  I have, yeah. My wife is obsessed with it.

• 34:48Lewis Howes?

  I watched it for the first time last night and just happened to turn on a recent episode. It was of a woman who's a monk.

• 34:56Rich Roll?

  Oh, in South Korea.

• 34:57Lewis Howes?

  Is that where it is?

• 34:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so she is genius.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  It was amazing.

• 35:01Rich Roll?

  I forget her name, but she is basically a nun in this Buddhist monastery. And I believe it's in, I believe it's in, I believe it's in South Korea. And she's like a food magician.

• 35:14Lewis Howes?

  She's unbelievable.

• 35:15Rich Roll?

  Totally plant-based, but she grows all her herbs and her own foods. And it is the most artistic, beautiful food that you've ever seen. And her approach to it is so mindful and so, with so much grace, that it is impossible to not be inspired. And the food that she prepares in this monastery, I guess, and you would know because you just watched the episode.

• 35:37Lewis Howes?

  It's called a temple food.

• 35:39Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 35:39Lewis Howes?

  Which is like this spiritual food for your soul and your mind.

• 35:42Rich Roll?

  Exactly.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  I believe it's 100% plant-based, I'm assuming.

• 35:45Rich Roll?

  It is, yeah.

• 35:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but they kept calling it, she kept calling it temple food. And how it's going to like infuse your body with this like spiritual awareness and enlightenment. And they even had like enlightened tea with like this special flower, you know, thing. And there was a New York Times. Critic, food critic, who said he went to this lunch that she had and he was like, "It was life-changing and then I had to go to Korea or wherever it was to experience it for 30 days and learn about it."

• 36:09Rich Roll?

  That guy's name is Jeff Gordonier, that New York Times writer, and he did a story on me and my family that was in the New York Times called "Vegans Go Glam." It came out a couple of years ago and when he came to our house to interview us, he had just come from that experience. He was like, "I gotta tell you about..." He told us the whole story. And I was like, "Okay." Like, I didn't really get it until that chef's table episode came out and I was like, "Oh, now I get it." But he wrote an incredible piece for the New York Times about her and her work that I'm sure people can find online.

• 36:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's interesting. But food does something to our physical makeup.

• 36:44Rich Roll?

  There's no question about it.

• 36:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, you transform your physical body and your energy transform when you transform the foods you ate.

• 36:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and like, you know, I don't want to sound like a crazy woo-woo hippie, but I believe that...

• 36:57Lewis Howes?

  You sleep in a tank.

• 36:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was a whole other thing. We can talk about that if you want. When you take like high vibration live foods into your body, it's gonna, it's gonna have an impact that's different from taking in something that is, that is dead, you know? And heavy.

• 37:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I hear you.

• 37:15Rich Roll?

  It's my direct experience, an N of one experiment.

• 37:19Lewis Howes?

  It's so funny though, there's other people, there's this guy Mark Bell, have you seen, you know who this is?

• 37:24Rich Roll?

  No.

• 37:24Lewis Howes?

  He's got a podcast and he's on Instagram and YouTube. He's a big bodybuilding guy. He used to be like really overweight, not overweight, just a big, massive guy. And he's leaner than ever. He's still huge and strong. He's on like the carnivore diet, which is all healthy meats. But he looks healthier and younger than ever and leaner than ever. And I'm just like, there's so many different diets out there, but I'm, I'm a big believer in a plant-based diet. And ever since moving to LA, I've been surrounded by you and my other friend Bill Glazer, who's just like been vegan.

• 37:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah, Bill's all about it.

• 37:54Lewis Howes?

  He's been vegan for a while. I go to more vegan restaurants and I just start to eat more vegan foods, but it's just like a, it's like a switch. I have to find the switch to be able to turn it off about meat. And it wasn't until I watched Okja, did you watch it?

• 38:10Rich Roll?

  Oh yeah, Okja, yeah.

• 38:11Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't until I watched Okja where I actually had an emotional connection to, to meat, but it only lasted for about a month. And then, I don't know, I can justify it some other way. There's other doctors who talk about, you know, how meat is good for you when you have a certain types, whatever, so. It's challenging, but you gave me some good advice. You said, if you're gonna eat meat, at least don't eat dairy.

• 38:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  That's what you told me, I think. It's like dairy is one of the worst things in your mind.

• 38:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cut out dairy and just, and limit your meat intake if you're not ready to go 100% plant-based. So, right now, even if you're the most informed and diligent consumer and you're poking around the internet, it can be very, very confusing. There's so much debate and acrimony when it comes to this conversation that we're having about what is the optimal human diet. But I think all or most of the experts, and certainly the ones that I respect the most, will agree upon one fundamental fact, which is that a diet high in fiber, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, beans, these things, is really the path forward. And when you kind of look at the blue zones and the people that live the longest and the

• 39:23Rich Roll?

  happiest, these are people who are eating a very small amount of meat at most, maybe some fish. And their diet is basically consists of, you know, what I just mentioned. And so I think there's wisdom in that. And we wanna overcomplicate it. We wanna say, we wanna be reductionist about it, it's this, not that. So for anybody who's listening who's struggling because they are confused by all of that, like, if you're not ready to cut meat out, you know, just make it a side dish and make the main entree.

• 39:56Lewis Howes?

  A little bit, yeah.

• 39:57Rich Roll?

  Tons of vegetables.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  You are a recovering addict, right? How long were you a alcoholic for?

• 40:03Rich Roll?

  So I was an alcoholic, I was probably my first drink around 17, and I got sober at 31. I am a recovering alcoholic. Alcoholism took me to some, some pretty dark and dire places. At age 30, 31, you know, I was somebody who had really squandered a lot of potential and opportunity, you know? When I was a senior in high school, I got into every college I applied to. I was...

• 40:28Lewis Howes?

  Olympic hopeful swimmer.

• 40:30Rich Roll?

  I don't know that I was good enough to be an Olympic hopeful. Maybe I was with an emphasis on hope, practicality. But yeah, no, I was a world ranked swimmer. I swam at Stanford in the late 1980s. We won two NCAA championships when I was there. I was a bench warmer, though. Let's be clear about that. And alcoholism really destroyed my potential as an athlete. It undermined every aspect of who I was. It stripped me of all my ambitions and potential. And by the time I was 31, I was a pretty broken human being. I was alienated from my friends and my family. I was the guy who just never showed up and would lie to you. And I was sleeping on a bare mattress in a shitty apartment with no furniture in it, about to get fired from my job.

• 41:13Rich Roll?

  I had two DUIs and I could not stop drinking. I could not stop drinking. Of course, I knew I was an alcoholic. And I just had that moment of clarity one day that you hear about with people that are in recovery where I was like, I just can't, I can't live this way anymore. I ended up going to a treatment center in Oregon where I thought I was going to go for the 28 day deal that most people do. And I ended up living there for 100 days, which is kind of a long time.

• 41:41Lewis Howes?

  Did you feel like you needed to stay because you weren't ready to leave and go back to the real world of temptation?

• 41:47Rich Roll?

  What happened was I got there and I started telling people how I was actually living and what I was doing for the very first time. And the counselors there were like, dude, I know you think you're going to spin out of here in a couple of weeks, but we really think that you need to stay. Like you have, very vividly recall this one guy saying, you have a case of alcoholism that we only see in 65 year old lifelong drinkers. And if you don't get this right, you're going to go back out into the world and you're going to die. And I see it all the time. And I was able to hear that and. I was very aware that my best thinking had me essentially in a mental institution. And as somebody who was that guy who had so much promise, you know, it was a pretty precipitous

• 42:32Rich Roll?

  fall and I never wanted to have to go back. And so I thought, I'm gonna stay here and I'm gonna make sure that I get this right. Yeah. And that's what I did. And then in the wake of that, you know, came back to Los Angeles and my priority was to build the strongest foundation of sobriety that I could. And that was my number one thing, going to AA meetings and immersing myself in the community here, the recovery community in Los Angeles. And then trying to repair all the wreckage that I had created as a result of my... Relationships. Yeah, relationships and just professionally and, and really, I was like, I used to be here, I fell this far, I gotta get back up on top. And in retrospect, looking back, I wasn't really aware of it at the time. I took a lot of that compulsive addict energy and I put it into my work, you know, I was

• 43:15Rich Roll?

  like, and I justified it by saying, look, you know, I have this potential, I gotta regain it, you know, I have to repair this. And it worked, you know, by the time I was 39, I had succeeded. I had repaired those relationships, you know, I was... Succeeded in business. Successful lawyer, like partnership track, a law firm, had a portion of the drive, I had all the stuff. But that's when that existential crisis started to percolate up, because I, I never really thought like, is this what I wanna do? I just, it was more like, I need society to perceive me in this way and this is what somebody of my education is supposed to do. Without ever really taking a beat to say, well, what is it that, that I wanna do? Like, what's unique to me? What gets me excited and out of bed in the morning?

• 43:57Rich Roll?

  That was never part of the inner mental dialogue and nothing that I ever really considered in a, in a real way. And that just played it out, played itself out as long as it could until I had that second bottom, you know, on that staircase, which was very similar to that bottom that I had with drinking, you know, where I realized like, my life is unsustainable, like I need to make some significant changes. And when did you get married? I got married about seventeen years ago. No, actually, well Julie and I have been together about twenty years, but we didn't get married for a long time. So we got married, my daughter's fourteen. We got married about fifteen years ago. So you met her after you went to rehab? I met her when I had a year of sobriety. Gotcha.

• 44:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and I was celibate during that year. Because when I left rehab, they were like, "Look, your relationship with women is very intertwined with your drinking, and we think that you should hit pause on that and take this time to really figure out who you are." And that was another thing that I took seriously. And that was a very empowering thing, to be celibate for a year and really kind of opt out of dating altogether, because you're really then forced to like, deal with yourself. And then at the end of that year, I met Julie, and then like, that was it. Wow. Yeah. Do you think you guys would be together if you'd have met two years prior? No way. I would have been a wreck, and she was married. No, it wouldn't have happened, yeah, it wouldn't have happened. And like, on paper, like Julie was not the person for me, and I wasn't the person for her.

• 45:25Rich Roll?

  It didn't really make, she was older, she was coming out of a marriage, she had two young boys. Like, I was thinking, my next girlfriend's gonna be, you know, five years younger than me, and like, really just no drama, you know, no complications or anything like that. But, you know, the heart wants what the heart wants. Right. How has that evolved in the last twenty years, since you've known her? It's been incredible. You know, I mean, prior to meeting her, I couldn't sustain a relationship. I couldn't be honest, I couldn't be faithful. And I was really scared to be in a relationship with her, especially since she had two boys. And, you know, we're going on almost twenty years now. It's been incredible. And it's been, you know, it's been an evolution of trying to figure out how to cohabitate with another human being

• 46:09Rich Roll?

  for that long period of time is challenging. And I think one of the things that's allowed us to To continue to grow alongside of each other is that she is very independent and I'm independent. Right. And you know, I'm not looking at each other. It's like, it's like you complete me. It's like, it's not that. Like, we're on our own journeys. Our personal growth trajectories are between ourselves and our version of God, really. And I don't rely on her to fix me and she's not looking to me for the same. And so, we can come together and like make magic and you know, we work together too. We write cookbooks together, we do retreats, so we're professionally enmeshed as well as we are personally enmeshed.

• 46:50Rich Roll?

  And you know, as parents of four kids, I think it's easy to allow our relationship to then be defined by what you guys are doing together in a career context, you know? Like, all your conversations are about like, okay, we got it. Did you email that person back? And what are we doing about this? And so, we've had to be very diligent about making sure that we know when we're working together and when it's like personal time for ourselves. Family or personal time, yeah. That's cool. And what has being a recovering addict taught you about compassion for others? Oh, it's been huge. It's been huge. All the tools that I've learned to navigate the world began with what I learned in rehab and what I continue to learn in recovery.

• 47:33Rich Roll?

  It's made me much more compassionate towards other people because I've come to understand that, you know, we all have our own pain. You know, when you're in the recovery community, you're constantly meeting people and hearing their stories. What it was like for them, what happened and what it's like now. And you become very connected with that journey of how life can be very difficult. And I think whether you're an addict or not, we're all walking around in the world with our masks on. And it's easy to just presume or project on to other people that they have it easy or that they're not having the same struggles that you are having. But in truth, I've come to understand and learn and really take to heart that you don't know what people are going through.

• 48:17Rich Roll?

  And I've gone through a lot and I've been in a very dark, low place. And so, I don't really judge other people's experiences, you know? And that's a perspective I brought into the podcast too. Even when I have people on that I don't agree with or don't see the world in the same way, I'm able to have empathy for them and I'm able to kind of find a way to, you know, respect wherever somebody is coming from. Make wrong, yeah.

• 48:43Lewis Howes?

  What's the big lesson that you try to teach your kids now?

• 48:46Rich Roll?

  I think the big lesson, well, it's it's multifold, but I think at the core of it is teaching them that the most important thing, well, as parents, the most important thing I want to instill in them is a sense of self-assuredness and self-confidence.

• 49:03Lewis Howes?

  Belief in themselves.

• 49:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, belief in themselves. And then with that, I try to encourage them to find something that they care about. And I don't really care what that is. You know, I just want them to have something that excites them. And then my job and my wife's job is to find a way to fuel that and support that. Because I think that's the engine that will propel an individual to success later in life. Rather than saying, you should have this career, you should have that career. Like, whatever it is that they're naturally gravitating towards, like, I try to pay attention to that and then find a way to be a support system for that. So, for example, my 14-year-old daughter started painting when she was like four years old, five years old.

• 49:46Rich Roll?

  She sold paintings to, you know, our friends when she was a little girl. She moved away from it for a while, and then she came back to it. And then she decided on her own that she wanted to apply to get into the Performing Arts School here in Los Angeles, which is very difficult to get into. So we got her a mentor, this young girl who had gone to art school. And she worked with her for over a year, helping her learn how to paint, putting a portfolio together. She applied to the school and she just got in.

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 50:15Rich Roll?

  So it's super exciting. And the analogy is, it took me a very long time to find something that I cared about, that I could invest myself in. And my message that I put out in the books and what I write about in the podcasts and all of that is like, you know, find what is true to your heart and pursue that with everything that you have. So I have to believe that that is true for myself and the people that I'm communicating with, that it has to be true with my children as well. What's the biggest challenge of being a parent? The biggest challenge is understanding that you can't control their environment. You have to allow them to have their own experiences and come to their own conclusions. Even if you know what's best, your job is to kind of guide them gently in a direction that you see fit.

• 50:58Rich Roll?

  But when they stumble or they end up making a bad decision, you have to sometimes step back and allow that to unfold without getting overly involved in it. That's gotta be just so challenging for a control freak who wants them to be like, "Do this." No, no, no. Yeah, but like, you know, I've learned from the way that I grew up that it's important to provide a little bit of space and freedom. And you can't insulate them from the pain that life is inevitably going to deliver. So your job isn't to make sure that they avoid that at all costs, but to make sure that they're loved and supported when something like that inevitably occurs. Yeah. And are your parents still around? Mm-hmm. Yeah. They live in Washington DC. They do? Yeah, they're still together. Wow.

• 51:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the biggest lessons you learned from both of them? That's a good question. My father is a gentleman's gentleman, a very successful lawyer in Washington DC, and now he's become an author himself. So we're both writing books and we can bond over that. That's cool. I think what I learned from him is, and from my mom as well, who's an educator, the importance of learning and education. Like, that was something that was impressed upon me at a young age. Probably not in the healthiest way, maybe a little tick too much, but a respect for the importance of learning, not just in school, but throughout your life. Hmm. That's cool. And what's the biggest challenge you're faced with right now?

• 52:25Rich Roll?

  Hmm. I think the biggest challenge that I'm faced with right now is learning...

• 52:32Rich Roll?

  What to say no to.

• 52:34Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:35Rich Roll?

  Because my life is big.

• 52:37Lewis Howes?

  Opportunity overload.

• 52:39Rich Roll?

  As you know, I'm sure you're in this situation all the time. You're on the receiving end of a lot of cool opportunities. And it's because life was so hard not so long ago. Like now I'm in a position to take advantage of things that were not being offered to me then. And it's all awesome. Like I want to say yes to everything because it's all super cool. So the challenge is being clear on what it is that I'm actually doing and making sure that the decisions I'm making are driving that forward, rather than using those opportunities as distractions that ultimately prevent me from being as impactful or successful as I know that I can be.

• 53:13Lewis Howes?

  Instead of being good at lots of things, being great at a few things and staying focused and.

• 53:18Rich Roll?

  Right, well, for example, like somebody says, hey, we want to pay you a bunch of money to come and speak at this conference and at some really cool resort and we'll put you up and all of that. And it's like, yeah, I want to do that. Then you're like, but if I do that, then that's all this time away and I'm going to fall behind in this other project that I'm working on. So in the balance of things, like what is most important for me to do?

• 53:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:39Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 53:40Lewis Howes?

  I hear you.

• 53:41Rich Roll?

  So saying no, having boundaries, that's difficult for me. And you know, I'm a people pleaser at heart, you know?

• 53:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:49Rich Roll?

  So it's difficult for me to say no to anything.

• 53:52Lewis Howes?

  I hear you. I'll make sure not to ask you in private.

• 53:55Rich Roll?

  No, you can.

• 53:56Lewis Howes?

  Just kidding. Before I ask the final few questions, I want to make sure you guys get the new book or the updated book, Finding Ultra: Rejecting Middle Age, Becoming One of the World's Fittest Men and Discovering Myself. Very powerful, updated, expanded, 100 plus new pages, nutritional stuff in there as well. Make sure you guys check this out. Very powerful story, journey, insights, all the things. You got a new cookbook out too.

• 54:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's right. So this second edition of Finding Ultra just came out. Super excited about it. And I appreciate the fact that you had, it was there. This was sitting up there. Like I could see it in all your videos and I really.

• 54:34Lewis Howes?

  Just hold it down.

• 54:35Rich Roll?

  I was like, how long is that going to sit up there before he swaps it out?

• 54:38Lewis Howes?

  Keep the favorites.

• 54:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, thank you. I wanted to take the opportunity to rewrite it for the reasons I already mentioned, to bring it up to speed, but it's about 100 pages longer. It's got a brand new prescriptive chapter that has all the tools and the resources and the strategies that I employ to transform my life. It's got a new foreword, it's got beefed up appendices, it's got a recipe section. There's all kinds of bells and whistles. So even if you. Read it originally and enjoyed it. There's plenty there for you to enjoy the second time around. And then, yes, on April 24th, we have a new cookbook coming out called The Plant Power Way Italia. We had, my wife and I wrote a book several years ago.

• 55:14Lewis Howes?

  That's called The Plant Power Way.

• 55:15Rich Roll?

  This is, yeah, Italia is Italy, Louis, Ohio boy. This book is like next level, 125 plant-based recipes.

• 55:22Lewis Howes?

  Italian.

• 55:23Rich Roll?

  Everything's Italian. It's informed by these retreats that we do every year in the Tuscan countryside, working with chefs there and taking groups of people through a week-long transformation. And we took all of that, put it in this amazing book and super excited about that.

• 55:36Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 55:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's good. Like the photography, everything is like, it's like a coffee table book. You're gonna want to leave out, you're gonna want to use it. All the recipes are very family-oriented, family-friendly, delicious. They're gonna fill you up. It's not just salads. Like, it's all the good stuff that you love about Italian food.

• 55:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow, sounds amazing. And I heard a rumor that if you preorder a copy of that, you're entered into a contest to potentially get a free ticket to the next retreat. Is that what I heard?

• 56:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's a, wow, you did your homework. So, yeah, we just announced this contest. We're going back to Italy in May 19 through 26, and we're taking a group of about 35 people. It's sold out, but somebody, a woman had to back out for some reason. So we had this extra, this open spot, and we were thinking, well, we'll just, we'll sell it. And then we thought, well, let's use this opportunity, this preorder campaign, to like, offer this spot to somebody who wants it. So, it's a woman-only, because it's in a shared female room. So it's only available to women. But if you're interested in, in learning more about that, go to my website, and I have a blog post up that has a form to fill out and all that good stuff.

• 56:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so you gotta buy the book and then enter the form, I'm assuming.

• 56:45Rich Roll?

  Exactly.

• 56:45Lewis Howes?

  So that's richroll.com for that. Very cool. Final couple of questions. This one is called The Three Truths. I think I asked it to you last time, but I'll ask it again. If this was your final day for you, many years from now, and you've achieved everything you want, you became your greatest self, tackled everything, every challenge, any dream you had, you made come true? Wrote all the books, everything. But for whatever reason, you had to take everything with you on your last day. So nothing could stay for us to have access to these books or the content you put out there. It's all with you in the grave and gone into another spiritual realm. But you did have the opportunity to leave behind one piece of paper with the three things you need to be true about all your lessons in life,

• 57:30Lewis Howes?

  all your experiences that you would share with the world. And this is the only thing that we would have to have access to your words and wisdom. What would you say are your three truths?

• 57:39Rich Roll?

  Wow, man, that's tough. Let's see. You did not ask me this before, so this is new. I would say, live true to yourself, give freely to others, and love deeply. Not much more than that is important.

• 58:01Lewis Howes?

  There you go. Powerful. I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Rich, for constantly showing up. I mean, you're 51. You put me to shame with your health, your abilities, everything, but your compassion towards humanity and wanting to just love on people in the sense of not judging people, making people wrong. I think that's one of your biggest superpowers is your ability to lead through humility while putting yourself through any type of challenge or adversity and just share your story. And I think the art of storytelling has been lost for a lot of us. We don't think we are, who are we to share our story publicly? And your ability to do it and continue to show up and share it, even though it's not perfect every day for you,

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  is really inspiring and powerful. So I acknowledge you for that, man.

• 58:49Rich Roll?

  Thank you, my friend. It's a privilege and an honor to sit across from you once again. Mad love and respect for everything that you're doing and what you've built here and the service that you provide to so many people. So always, always good to see you.

• 59:03Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 59:08Rich Roll?

  My definition of greatness is really, probably a variation on what I would leave behind. To be great is to live in a way that is, that has fidelity to who you truly are. Like, are you fully self-actualized? So to be great is to live in that self-actualized way and to give away freely the wisdom that you've accumulated as a result of, of a... Of trudging that road.

• 59:36Rich Roll?

  Rich Roll, the legend. My friend. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. See you.

• 59:44Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, make sure to check out the full show notes. LewisHowes.com/619. Check out the full video interview, all the links, the resources. Check out Rich's book over there as well. And big thank you to Rich. Again, if you enjoyed this, take a screenshot on your phone right now of this podcast. Post it over on your Instagram story. Tag me, at Lewis Howes, tag at Rich Roll. Let us know what you think. We're pretty active over there. And if you send us a message, most likely we try to respond to as many as we can. So check it out over on Instagram, at Lewis Howes, at Rich Roll. I hope you guys enjoy this one. Super pumped and excited about this. And if you did, make sure, again, spread some love out to your friends online.

• 1:00:29Lewis Howes?

  Leave us a review over on iTunes. And as always, let me know what you think about this episode over on social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and subscribe over on YouTube. We've got a quarter of a million people who have subscribed to our YouTube channel. It's youtube.com/LouisHowes. And what I loved about the quote we talked about in the beginning, Jeff Bezos said, "What's dangerous is not to evolve." If you're not growing every single day, if you're not challenging yourself, stepping up into a bigger goal, a bigger dream, then that's what's dangerous. Is staying comfortable, staying in your comfort zone, and not allowing yourself to progress. And it's been inspiring to see what Rich Roll has done after 50 to push the boundaries

• 1:01:14Lewis Howes?

  of human potential. I love you guys. I hope you enjoyed this one. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.