Selects: How The Pill Changed the World

When the birth control pill hit the market in 1960 it landed like a social bomb. Almost overnight, women gained the ability to separate sex from pregnancy and everything from feminism to patients’ rights centered on it. Find out all about its history in this classic episode. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it starts with a great deal on an off-road ready Tacoma or half ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Hey everybody, I want to talk to you right now about Black Friday deals at Lowe's because you can get Black Friday done at Lowe's before Black Friday. Right now, you can get up to three free select power tools with the purchase of a select DeWalt Craftsman or Cobalt Battery Kit. And get this, you can get your choice of a Holiday Living Greensboro pre-lit artificial Christmas tree, flocked or classic for just $99. Black Friday deals are on now at Lowe's in store and online. Valid through November 18th while supplies last. Free tools vary based on battery kit purchased and location. Hey everybody, here's Chuck this week on a Saturday with a pretty relevant topic these days. Who knew that it would be relevant again? And this is from June 19th, 2018.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  How the pill changed the world. I think you know what pill we're talking about.

• 1:28Speaker 03

  Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio.

• 1:38Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and there's the ghost of Jerry Rowden.

• 1:48Josh Clark?

  And the empty chair.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  Thanks again.

• 1:51Josh Clark?

  Thanks again to Ramsey.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks Ramsey.

• 1:53Josh Clark?

  How do I feel about this? I feel great. The pill is. It has everything. This might be, I just love this episode already.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  I do too, but I, kinda like when we did the female puberty episode, I just feel nervous.

• 2:08Josh Clark?

  This is gonna be fine.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  Dude's explaining female reproduction, I just, I don't know.

• 2:13Josh Clark?

  Hey, man, we're just, we're just explaining stuff.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  I know, I know.

• 2:18Josh Clark?

  It's not like we're, we're, we're just, we're just explaining stuff. Just be cool.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  Uh, alright, so let's talk the pill.

• 2:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, the opposite of having kids.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  The pharmaceutical's so famous that it's called the pill.

• 2:32Josh Clark?

  It is. I read this New Yorker article about a book on the birth of the pill. And now I'm talking about it. So everything comes full circle.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43Josh Clark?

  And they were saying like, there's, like, you don't call anything else the pill. Like Viagra's not the pill.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  It's the little blue pill.

• 2:49Josh Clark?

  Antibiotics isn't the pill. You don't call it the vacuum or the meat grinder, right? Like, there's, there's really nothing like that.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:59Josh Clark?

  Nothing compares to it. And it's, it's for good reason. I mean, the pill is monumentally huge as far as pharmaceuticals and medicine goes.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  And culture.

• 3:11Josh Clark?

  On the scale of antibiotics, easily.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's, um, it's the very first medication that was designed for a non-therapeutic purpose, too.

• 3:22Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Very interesting.

• 3:23Josh Clark?

  And so, it's really difficult to over, to overstate how much of an impact the pill had when they released it. And I think 1960 is when it first came out.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Are we gonna do history first?

• 3:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah, let's.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Alright, let's do that.

• 3:38Josh Clark?

  So, let me set the stage for you.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  Please. Ooh, you're bringing the couch out.

• 3:42Josh Clark?

  Back in, back in the day, I'm gonna do my Charles Nelson Riley one-man show impression. Back in the day, if you were a woman and you didn't want to get pregnant, you had to coordinate with your husband that he wear a condom, okay?

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Sure, or boyfriend.

• 4:05Josh Clark?

  Well, that's like a whole other kettle of fish at this time.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:08Josh Clark?

  Supposedly and socially, that went on all the time.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:13Josh Clark?

  There's plenty of premarital sex, but socially speaking, only single men were allowed to have premarital sex, which is like, who are they having premarital sex with then, right? If they're the only ones allowed to have premarital sex.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Well, sometimes each other.

• 4:27Josh Clark?

  Considering, considering everyone refused to officially recognize homosexuality even existed at the time.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know where you're getting.

• 4:34Josh Clark?

  Okay, so there is a lot of double standards, a lot of repression going on. But if you were, if you were a woman and you wanted to have sex, so whether it was with the guy you were having sex with or your husband, you, you basically had to say, you gotta wear a condom. And if you said no, well, you were SOL one way or another. Either you weren't having sex, or you're gonna have sex without a condom. And if that happened, there is a really good chance that you were going to end up getting pregnant just from having sex.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, the ball was entirely in the man's court and women did not have much say in the matter.

• 5:07Josh Clark?

  No, they didn't. There were a couple of things on the market. So before the industrial revolution, there were like folk remedies.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:16Josh Clark?

  Where you could use herbs and stuff like that. Basically, I think they're called herbal douches, where you're just like squeezing stuff in there and like

• 5:24Speaker 02

  It's good for the name.

• 5:24Josh Clark?

  Hoping, yeah, hoping for the best, right? And then by the depression, there's something, there's a whole line of stuff called gynecological aids or feminine hygiene, I think is what it's called. And some of them worked, some of them kinda worked, some of them didn't work. Some of them worked but would kill you or give you chemical burns.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:49Josh Clark?

  There was a lot of problems, so you didn't have a lot of options, right? And then, along with the fact that you actually didn't have that many options, socially, in 1950, thirty states in the federal government said, "You can't have anything that can be used as a contraceptive, and you can't even learn about it from your doctor or from school."

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:14Josh Clark?

  Thirty states in the federal government, this is 1950. Ten years later, the pill comes out. And a couple of years after that, five million American women are using it as a contraception.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:26Josh Clark?

  And now, it was in their hands. They had the ability to decide for themselves whether sex led to pregnancy or not.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Well, and sort of even then.

• 6:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Because not all states allowed it, and not all doctors would give it out.

• 6:42Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  So it wasn't like, "Oh, the FDA said it's good to go, so we can all get it."

• 6:47Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  It was still a fight.

• 6:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  For years and years, and decades.

• 6:50Josh Clark?

  It really was.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  So, I guess we should start with a woman named Margaret Sanger. She is a very controversial figure, founder of Planned Parenthood. She's a nurse. And she wrote in 1912 about a magic pill that could prevent conception.

• 7:09Josh Clark?

  Yeah, just a theoretical, hypothetical pill.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Right. And she's controversial for many reasons. Not the least of which is her, she was anti-abortion, kind of when she was most famous.

• 7:22Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  She was anti-abortion, and kind of went all in on the pill, and was like, "This is the way to do it, is to prevent the pregnancy. Once you're pregnant, sorry."

• 7:31Josh Clark?

  Well, gotcha.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  And then, you know, there's the whole eugenics thing. We should do a podcast on her probably at some point.

• 7:38Josh Clark?

  We should.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Because that's a rabbit hole right there.

• 7:40Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So, but she was the early champion of it. She was, she coined the term "birth control" in, I think, 1912 as well.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so in 1914, she started a newsletter called "The Woman Rebel." That's where birth control was first typed out and distributed, the words, like you said. And then, in the 1920s, some breakthroughs happened in science, where they were able to identify progesterone and estrogen.

• 8:09Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  And realize kind of how it all worked.

• 8:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so at first, they were looking at this stuff as fertility drugs. And then they noticed that it actually could suppress fertility. And as they were, I think this is in the 40s when they were really starting in earnest? Or is it the 20s?

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, they were synthesizing it from animals and it was in early 1941.

• 8:38Josh Clark?

  I don't think they were even synthesizing, I think they were extracting it. And then that's what you got in your pill was animal hormones.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Uh, well, it says synthesized from animals, so maybe it was a process.

• 8:47Josh Clark?

  Gotcha.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  But eventually in 1941, Dr. Marker, Dr. Russell Marker, I just said it like James Bond for some reason. He discovered how to synthesize the synthetic form of progesterone, which is called progestin. And that really, this is from wild yams, believe it or not.

• 9:06Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  So he did that, and that changed everything.

• 9:08Josh Clark?

  It did, it made it cheaper, it made it easier to obtain.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  You could research all of a sudden.

• 9:13Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:14Josh Clark?

  But you still couldn't really research, right? Because there were laws on even doing research on birth control. So the people who were doing this, it started out as Margaret Sanger. She, um, she hooked up with a doctor named Pinkus. And Gregory Pinkus, who was a biologist and he was interested in coming up with birth control as well.

• 9:38Josh Clark?

  Mary McCormick, was her first name Mary?

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Uh, Catherine.

• 9:41Josh Clark?

  Catherine McCormick.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Of the McCormick, uh, I guess the spices, right?

• 9:45Josh Clark?

  Okay, so, um, she, uh, she lent a tremendous amount of her wealth to this, to this research. And then a guy named John Rock, who was a doctor, who was also working on a birth control pill. They all joined forces in the 1950s and started working on this really hard. But they had a lot of roadblocks up against them and they cut a lot of corners in getting this thing out into market.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, like going to Puerto Rico to, because they had to, for trials.

• 10:15Josh Clark?

  Right, and so this is not like Puerto Rico was like, we don't want this, but you're forcing it on us anyway. Puerto Rico had the exact opposite attitudes toward birth control that the United States did at the time.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:28Josh Clark?

  So it was a good place to do it. They just didn't inform anybody what was going on with this, that this was a clinical trial. They just gave them some pills and said, here, take these, it'll keep you from getting pregnant.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, which they kinda came about by accident. Uh, some of the pills were contaminated with estrogen and they used that in scare quotes, I guess. Just because what they really mean is mixed by accident.

• 10:51Josh Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:52Speaker 02

  And that reduced a lot of the side effects, cause that was one of the big problems at first. And continued to be for a while. And eventually, they landed on a drug company called Cyril. Uh, there were two competing ones, the other one was Syntex. And Cyril, is that how you pronounce it?

• 11:10Josh Clark?

  Cyril.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Cyril.

• 11:11Josh Clark?

  That's what I'm going with.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  S-E-A-R-L-E, Cyril.

• 11:14Josh Clark?

  Cyril. Uh. See, I wanna hear you say it again.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Cyril. They finally came up with a thought was the, the right formulation. And, uh, in 1962, Syntex came out with their version. And then, pretty soon, it was being marketed and distributed after FDA approval in 1961.

• 11:35Josh Clark?

  So, yeah, so Cyril was the one who hooked up with, um, Sangre and, and Rock, yeah. And, um, they were the ones who provided the pills for the clinical trial in Puerto Rico. There was also a clinical trial in, at a women's mental asylum in Massachusetts.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:52Josh Clark?

  And the patients there didn't have any informed consent. And when they released this formula, um, first, it was for gynecological disorders. Things like ovarian cysts. They knew it could be used to treat that. And Cyril, at the time, was like, they had no expectations for this whatsoever.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:12Josh Clark?

  And then, within a year, there were half a million women in America who were suddenly using this for gynecological problems. And Cyril figured out, well, no, they're actually using it for contraception.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:24Josh Clark?

  And so, when they went and saw it FDA approval and got it, that was when the floodgates opened. Like, there was now a pill on the market that could prevent contraception that was the woman's to take. And, um, all of a sudden, there was, the first year, there was 1.2 million American women on the pill. And Cyril, at first, thought, they're not gonna want this. Women aren't gonna wanna take a pill every day to keep from getting pregnant. And they couldn't even finish the name Pregnant before, like, the pills were being grabbed from their hands.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:52Josh Clark?

  You know? It was a huge deal.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  It was, uh, and then... These pills were not very safe. That's the upshot of this. The estrogen, there was way too much estrogen. It was dangerous. It was causing cancer. And in 1969, a very famous book came out called The Doctor's Case Against the Pill, written by a medical journalist named Barbara Seaman. And she got together with a bunch of doctors and researchers and women and made a case against the pill that it wasn't safe. There was a senator named Gaylord Nelson who read the book, took on birth control in senate hearings. And in January 1970, in the senate chamber,

• 13:34Speaker 02

  there was this testimony about the pill going on, of course, run only by men.

• 13:40Josh Clark?

  All the witnesses?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  With only men testifying, providing witness testimony. But there was a woman there named Alice Wolfson and her group, the DC Women's Liberation Group. They were sitting there just getting more and more steamed.

• 13:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, in these hearings, at this time, these hearings were kind of under the radar.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:57Josh Clark?

  Until Alice Wolfson like blew it up.

• 13:59Speaker 02

  The C-span wasn't a thing yet.

• 14:01Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  So they were just getting more and more steamed, watching all these men get up there and talking about women's reproductive health and...

• 14:09Josh Clark?

  But not only that, they were also, these people were talking about how how dangerous the side effects were with the pill.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 14:17Josh Clark?

  Hypertension, blood clots, heart attacks, high blood pressure, stroke, all of these things. And the women in the DC Women's Lib movement, including Alice Wolfson, were like, "We've never heard this before in our lives. How did our doctors not tell us this?"

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Well, that was the backstory is that none of the doctors were sharing this information because they were getting, and it, you know, I think there's always been a problem, not across the board, but with doctors and pharmaceutical companies pushing certain drugs over others.

• 14:47Josh Clark?

  But even, but at the time, it was way worse than it is now. Like there was an actual...

• 14:51Speaker 02

  There was no disclosure.

• 14:52Josh Clark?

  Yeah, there was, there was a mentality among doctors, male doctors, who, who believed that...

• 15:02Josh Clark?

  If you, a woman was better off not knowing. You didn't want to get her all upset by giving her all the information.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  They didn't even have side effects listed.

• 15:11Josh Clark?

  Right, and if you did tell her, you ran the risk, since women were so suggestible, she might develop a stroke just by thinking about it so much. So it was better off just not telling her about it.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 15:23Josh Clark?

  That was the entire medical establishment at the time.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:27Josh Clark?

  And so the pill went from this feminist icon in the 60s to by 1970, becoming an icon for white, male.

• 15:37Speaker 02

  Patriarchy.

• 15:38Josh Clark?

  Medical patriarchy. And how patients' informed consent was a paramount issue now. And it just took on this other role.

• 15:51Speaker 02

  Well, and informed consent was literally born that day at that hearing. They finally heard an expert say estrogen is to cancer what fertilizer is to wheat. And Alice Wolfson stood up and started screaming. She was screaming, "Why are you using women as guinea pigs? Why are you letting drug companies murder us for profit and convenience?" And it got a lot of media attention and really, the aftermath of those hearings is when this consumer health movement started and they started informed consent. They started having to list side effects on bottles. And, you know, it wasn't an overnight thing, but it really changed the pharmaceutical industry forever.

• 16:29Josh Clark?

  Right, so the pill managed to accept this, I guess, iconography, right? It became a symbol for this other thing.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:44Josh Clark?

  But still managed to keep on keeping on. Like, I think 18, so 87% of women between 18 and 49 in the US followed those hearings. Once Alice Wolfson and the DC Women's Lib movement like made it a national thing. And I think 18% of them stopped taking the pill as a result. But the pill really didn't fall out of popularity. It stood in as the icon for informed consent and then just. After that was established, it just went back to being the pill. I think that's amazing.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  It is.

• 17:21Josh Clark?

  Because it was this huge thing in 1960 for one thing, huge thing in 1970 for another thing. And now it's, it's, it's part of the cultural zeitgeist forever.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Should we take a break?

• 17:32Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 17:32Speaker 02

  All right, we're gonna take a break. We're all excited about history. And now we're gonna get into, uh, science.

• 17:54Josh Clark?

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• 18:04Speaker 02

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• 18:17Josh Clark?

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• 18:32Speaker 02

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• 18:57Josh Clark?

  You know, eating is a huge part of our lives. It fuels us, it brings us together, and it's one of life's great pleasures. But once a meal's over, we don't think much about what happens next, unless something starts to feel off. Because what we eat and how our bodies respond to it is complicated.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  That's right. From the very first bite, food kicks off a chain reaction, signals moving between the gut, the brain, and the immune system, the constant back and forth we can't see and often don't fully understand. So we want to introduce to you Eating Interrupted, a new podcast. From iHeart Ruby Studio. It's hosted by longtime journalist and Crohn's patient Cynthia McFadden. Eating Interrupted explores everything from food allergies and intolerance and why they seem to be on the rise to how digestion changes as we age and what it's really like to live with a chronic GI condition.

• 19:41Josh Clark?

  Through personal stories and expert insight, listen in to unpack what it means when your body doesn't always respond to food the way you expect and what science is now revealing about why. Listen to Eating Interrupted on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 20:02Josh Clark?

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  That's Alan Goya, planning engineer at AT&T, and he's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, redefining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

• 20:21Speaker 04

  It was going to rival anything that was already built. And that takes quite a bit of people and different teams to all be on the same page.

• 20:29Josh Clark?

  That includes field services manager Drexel Jones. His team made sure it all came together and held up on game day.

• 20:35Speaker 05

  Through what Alan's whole crew designed, we connected the event visitors to the world.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  And after years of hard work and collaboration, it was opening night.

• 20:45Speaker 05

  To actually see the whole stadium light up and data's flowing is a beautiful thing.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  What the fans experience is incredible. It gave me a lot of pride.

• 20:52Josh Clark?

  AT&T. Connecting fans to what they love.

• 20:56Speaker 06

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. I want to talk to you right now about Black Friday deals at Lowe's because you can get Black Friday done at Lowe's before Black Friday. Right now, you can get up to three free select power tools with the purchase of a select DeWalt, Craftsman, or Cobalt battery kit. And get this, you can get your choice of a Holiday Living Greensboro pre-lit artificial Christmas tree, flocked or classic, for just $99. Black Friday deals are on now at Lowe's, in-store and online. Valid through November 18th while supplies last. Free tools vary based on battery kit purchased and location.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Hey, let's talk menstrual cycles.

• 21:43Josh Clark?

  All right, let's, man.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Because that's all that's going on here is the pill manipulates the menstrual cycle by tricking the body with synthetic hormones.

• 21:57Josh Clark?

  Yes, it tricks the body into thinking it's already released an egg.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  It's pretty brilliant.

• 22:02Josh Clark?

  It is, it is, but it's also kind of lo-fi if you think about it.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  It is very lo-fi.

• 22:06Josh Clark?

  It's neat. So, we should kind of give you an idea of what the menstrual cycle is, right? It's 28 days.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Generally.

• 22:16Josh Clark?

  Yes, that's the, that's the rule of thumb, but yes, it's certainly different.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Different for every woman, yeah.

• 22:21Josh Clark?

  And I think it's also down to like hours and stuff like that, too. It's not just days, it's a human construct, you know? But have you stopped and ever thought about like how interesting it is that the cycle of the moon is like 28 days as well?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:37Josh Clark?

  I think it's fascinating.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I didn't say it wasn't fascinating. I never stopped to think about it.

• 22:42Josh Clark?

  Just in researching this, I was like, that's the cycle of the moon as well. Huh, that's interesting. So, anyway, over the, say, roughly 28-day period, the whole thing starts with the pituitary gland getting a little froggy and saying, hey, I'm going to release some follicle-stimulating hormone.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  FSH.

• 23:01Josh Clark?

  And that stuff floods the body and it makes its way down to the ovaries and it stimulates follicles, hence the name.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  That's right, it makes these follicles and the ovaries grow.

• 23:13Josh Clark?

  Go boop.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  And it just sets off a big series of events, basically. Estrogen is, triggers that pituitary gland again.

• 23:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah, because the follicles then in turn release estrogen, right?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so the pituitary gland is busy because then it secretes what's called gonadotropin-releasing hormone, G little n, big R, big H.

• 23:35Josh Clark?

  One of the better abbreviations ever.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it looks sort of like Guns N' Roses.

• 23:39Josh Clark?

  A little bit, yeah. Oh, that is why I like that.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  G and R, H. And that triggers a rise in luteinizing hormone, LH.

• 23:49Josh Clark?

  Right, and so luteinizing hormone goes back down to the ovarian follicles and it...

• 23:57Josh Clark?

  It gets one of the follicles, so if you have a bunch of ovarian follicles growing, one of them's going to clearly, it's the lead horse, right?

• 24:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:06Josh Clark?

  It's going to develop into an egg. And as the luteinizing hormone stimulates it to develop into an egg, the egg pops off, the rest of the other follicles wither and die. And then the egg travels down the fallopian tube.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:23Josh Clark?

  Where it may or may not be fertilized.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is called ovulation. And while this is going on in the background, the uterine lining, the endometrium is thickening up.

• 24:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  It's getting ready for business.

• 24:36Josh Clark?

  And the reason that is, is because the estrogen and the luteinizing hormone are causing that to happen.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're just rising and rising.

• 24:43Josh Clark?

  So the mucus in the vagina, I'm saying uh like even more than usual right now. But the mucus in the vagina also, does it thicken?

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:59Josh Clark?

  So it thickens, is that after the egg has been fertilized? Because I think it would make it, it would become, okay, so it de-thickens. The uterine lining thickens. I think the vaginal mucus makes it easier for sperm to make its way through.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, correct.

• 25:15Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Sorry about that.

• 25:16Josh Clark?

  So that's, so if all that goes according to the genetic plan, then those sperm are going to make their way to an egg. The egg's going to become fertilized, it's going to come down the fallopian tube, attach to the uterus, and it's going to start to grow into a child.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 25:31Josh Clark?

  It might also not happen, either the woman involved might not have sex, so there might be no sperm. The sperm might not make it, there might be some sort of barrier method being made.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, or the dude may have bad sperm.

• 25:47Josh Clark?

  Sure. Regardless of how this happens, if the egg is not fertilized, the egg eventually withers up itself and dissolves. And that thickened endometrium is shed, basically.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, the uterine lining is shed.

• 26:03Josh Clark?

  Yes. So when that happens, like kind of iron-rich blood tissue.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:10Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  That is menstruation.

• 26:12Josh Clark?

  That's menstruation. So when you think of, but that's your period.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:17Josh Clark?

  The whole thing's menstruation.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Well, yeah.

• 26:19Josh Clark?

  Okay, it's like a 28 day cycle is menstruation.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:22Josh Clark?

  Cause I always think of like, yeah, the period's menstruation.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:25Josh Clark?

  No, that's actually the end of menstruation.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 26:27Josh Clark?

  And then the whole cycle begins again. Right after that time, the pituitary gland's like, oh, all right, I'll release some follicle stimulating hormone. The whole thing begins again. The pill interrupts this by making the body think it's already released an egg. Like when the egg comes off of the follicle and makes its way down to the fallopian tube, the ovum, makes its way down the fallopian tube. That's when the estrogen and the progesterone levels are high. Okay? So the pill introduces progesterone and estrogen levels and keeps them high at all times.

• 27:07Josh Clark?

  And therefore, the body stops releasing eggs because it thinks it's already released an egg.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just hijacks that whole process.

• 27:15Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Synthetically.

• 27:16Josh Clark?

  Yep.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  The woman's body is amazing.

• 27:19Josh Clark?

  It is.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  When you think about all that's going on.

• 27:21Josh Clark?

  Yeah, our body's not doing anything even remotely like that. It's making like farts.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  That's what I thought.

• 27:27Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  When I was researching this, I was like, man, I've never felt less important.

• 27:32Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  And like the insides of my body are just, I got some lungs doing some things, I got a heart. And then like, I guess I'm still making sperm, I don't even know.

• 27:42Josh Clark?

  I've got like a wheezy old donkey running the show in there. Kind of dirty.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Oh goodness.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  So the endometrium still builds up in the uterus and is released, but it's known as a withdrawal period. So this is if you're on the pill. But that's why your period while on the pill is going to be generally lighter and shorter.

• 28:04Josh Clark?

  Yeah. And so technically, this, the pill mimics this structure called the corpus luteum.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:10Josh Clark?

  Uh, which is the thing that releases progesterone and estrogen once an egg is released. So the body's like, oh, the corpus luteum's got it going on. I don't need to release another egg. I also am not going to have a period because during this time, after the pill, the, those hormone levels start to become like a normal baseline in the woman's body. There's no endometrium that builds up and therefore there's no endometrium to shed.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Right, and I don't think we mentioned this yet, progestin, which is the synthetic progesterone.

• 28:41Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  It's gonna make that vaginal mucus thicker. So you were right earlier, it is thinner to make the sperm, uh, make it access the eggs easier.

• 28:50Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  It will thicken it up, that mucus, to make it harder.

• 28:53Josh Clark?

  It goes.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  For the sperm. So it, I think it's just sort of like a one-two punch to make it even harder to get pregnant. Although you can still get pregnant, usually due to misuse of the pill.

• 29:06Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  What you do is, you take the pill at the same time, every day. It's all very synchronous and depends on that timing. And if you don't time it out right, um, your chances of getting pregnant are a little bit more. But apparently, if you're taking it exactly right at the same time, then your failure rate is gonna be .3%.

• 29:30Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  So it's still technically possible.

• 29:32Josh Clark?

  Yes, it is. .3% possible.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Which offers up the question, like, why, like, when they were developing the pill, they had it completely in their control.

• 29:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  As to what they wanted to do with the menstrual cycle. And they decided, and I never knew this.

• 29:49Josh Clark?

  I didn't even.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  It's very interesting. They decided to keep it on that 28-day cycle because, for a lot of reasons, they thought, um, Doc The Rock thought the Catholic Church, because he was a Catholic, they might be more willing to approve it if it seemed more natural, I guess.

• 30:04Josh Clark?

  Right, he was way off there.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  They thought way off. He thought that women would be more apt to take it if it didn't seem like it was disrupting things too much.

• 30:13Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Like, I'm still in my regular cycle.

• 30:14Josh Clark?

  Right, because you do have that withdrawal period.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:17Josh Clark?

  Um, it's not an actual real period, but it does come at that, at the end of that, the pill cycle.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, but they could've gotten rid of the period altogether.

• 30:26Josh Clark?

  Right, and a lot of people are like, "Well, go do that." And there are pills on the market that we'll talk about that do take away women's periods.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:33Josh Clark?

  There's others that, um, put them at different, like, spaces of the amount, like, like, four times a year or something like that. And... People started looking into this and they're like, well, wait a minute, like shouldn't women be having periods? And the answer is not necessarily, right?

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's controversial.

• 30:51Josh Clark?

  Like if you're not, if you're not ovulating, you technically don't have to have a period. And this Molly Edmonds wrote this really interesting pill.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Good old Molly.

• 31:01Josh Clark?

  Article.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:03Josh Clark?

  Like, is a period necessary, I think is what it's called. And.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Because women today have many more periods than our ancestors.

• 31:11Josh Clark?

  Right, something on the order of like 450 periods over the average woman's lifetime.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, about three times as many as our ancestors did.

• 31:18Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so like back in like hunter gatherer, pre agricultural women had about 160 or something, right? And that was because they had more kids, they breastfed longer.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  They didn't live as long.

• 31:29Josh Clark?

  They didn't live as long, yeah. And so some people make the point like, well, women are having more, more periods than ever before. And the body wasn't meant for this. It's actually kind of rough on the body to have a period. Like when the ovum pops off of the fallopian tube, it leaves a scar on the ovary.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:49Josh Clark?

  And that scar has to be repaired. And to repair, the cells in the ovary have to divide. And as long as they divide correctly, that that damage will be repaired. If they divide incorrectly, that damage can turn into ovarian cancer. So that's, that's, that's a problem with it. There's also scarring with endo, the shedding of the endometrium. Like actually having your period itself can leave scarring, same deal, right?

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think doesn't iron deficiency come into play?

• 32:18Josh Clark?

  So that's actually a benefit of having a period.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Oh, is it?

• 32:21Josh Clark?

  You, you get rid of excess iron, which can lead to cardiovascular disease.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  Well, and there are a couple of weeks during the menstrual, menstrual cycle where women have a lot, a significant reduction in blood pressure. So during the years, you know, their reproductive years at least, they are at, I guess, a slightly lower risk of stroke and heart attack.

• 32:42Josh Clark?

  I think like 10% lower.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's not bad.

• 32:45Josh Clark?

  No, not at all. So there's pros and there's cons to having a period. The thing is, and this is what Molly ultimately points out, is we actually don't know if a period is necessary. Like the pill is still relatively new and.

• 33:02Josh Clark?

  I think there she quoted a doctor in there, Dr. Susan Rothko, I think, or Roko. And she called the the pill that does away with periods entirely, the greatest unregulated medical experiment of all time.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:22Josh Clark?

  And she she makes a chilling point, like, we don't really know what the side effects are yet because all of this is too new, especially the pill that that does away with the period altogether.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, and they haven't done, there are no long term studies of menstrual suppression.

• 33:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  From oral contraceptives, at least. They don't know about what that means for a woman. They don't know, because most of this testing is done for women over 18, so they don't know what it means for women under 18.

• 33:51Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  At all, because they're just not involved in the research, even though they do have research that shows about 2/3 of women would get rid of their period if they could do so safely, because, I mean, we haven't even mentioned PMS or PPMD, which is just, isn't that like, a really, really severe?

• 34:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Form of PMS?

• 34:14Josh Clark?

  Yes, it's like, much worse.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:17Josh Clark?

  Yeah, whereas like, PMS is is not a picnic to begin with.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 34:23Josh Clark?

  This is, this is like, go to the hospital, bad.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Can be at least.

• 34:28Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  So, yeah, that's really interesting to think about.

• 34:30Josh Clark?

  It also treats ovarian cysts, there's other uses for for birth control pills, too.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:36Josh Clark?

  You want to take another break and get back to it?

• 34:38Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 34:39Josh Clark?

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• 35:17Josh Clark?

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• 35:33Speaker 02

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• 35:57Josh Clark?

  You know, eating is a huge part of our lives. It fuels us, it brings us together, and it's one of life's great pleasures. But once a meal's over, we don't think much about what happens next unless something starts to feel off. Because what we eat and how our bodies respond to it is complicated.

• 36:13Speaker 02

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• 36:41Josh Clark?

  Through personal stories and expert insight, listen in to unpack what it means when your body doesn't always respond to food the way you expect and what science is now revealing about why. Listen to Eating Interrupted on the iHeart app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Hey, everybody. I want to talk to you right now about Black Friday deals at Lowe's because you can get Black Friday done at Lowe's before Black Friday. Right now, you can get up to three free select power tools with the purchase of a select DeWalt, Craftsman, or Cobalt battery kit. And get this, you can get your choice of a Holiday Living Greensboro pre-lit artificial Christmas tree, flocked or classic, for just $99. Black Friday deals are on now at Lowe's, in-store and online. Valid through November 18th while supplies last. Free tools vary based on battery kit purchased and location.

• 37:36Speaker 02

  Hey everybody, the holidays are coming up, so let us throw this out there. Are you prepared to host friends or family? Like, really prepared? Because there's a difference between having people stay at your house and properly hosting them.

• 37:48Josh Clark?

  Yeah, that's what we thought. So maybe it's time for a little refresh. Well, we have a tip. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home, so you can host and celebrate without the stress.

• 38:01Speaker 02

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• 38:11Josh Clark?

  And it's all built for real life. Every item is hand-vetted by specialists with a 10-point quality inspection. And on top of that, with over 20 million verified 5-star reviews, you can have total confidence in all the picks you make.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  So remember, when refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Just head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com.

• 38:45Josh Clark?

  Okay Chuck, where are we? Oh, we were talking about-

• 38:48Speaker 02

  I'm over here, hanging butt on this cliff by my fingernails.

• 38:51Josh Clark?

  I think you're doing great. Isn't it doing great, everybody?

• 38:54Speaker 02

  Yes. No.

• 38:55Josh Clark?

  So remember, so there are side effects, both positive and negative, to taking the pill.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:01Josh Clark?

  There's some very common negative side effects, like nausea is a big one. Weight gain.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Spotting.

• 39:08Josh Clark?

  Spotting, which is called breakthrough menstruation, which is where you have bleeding during the actual pill cycle, not the prescribed period cycle of the pill.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't think we mentioned yet either that in the pill prescription, in that monthly dose, there are seven, not always, but the way they designed it was there are seven placebo pills-

• 39:34Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  -that are in there, because you only take the pill for 21 days a month. But they put those extra seven pills in there to keep women on that. I guess the thinking was if they're used to taking this pill every day, they need to keep doing it.

• 39:46Josh Clark?

  Right, to keep it as a habit.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, if they don't for seven days, they might forget on the eighth day, and that's bad news.

• 39:51Josh Clark?

  Yep, so that's, that's the most common way to do it. And those, that's a very easy type of- Of pill to take, right? Because all of them are the same level of hormone. And the, um, the seven inert ones are usually a different color and they come at the end of the month.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:10Josh Clark?

  It's supposed to be easy. There's actually a recall right now of Taytula. Did you see that?

• 40:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 40:17Josh Clark?

  Taytula is made it by Allergan, I think. And they recalled a lot of their pills because they put the inert ones at the beginning of the cycle accidentally.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  Just bad packaging?

• 40:29Josh Clark?

  Yes.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 40:30Josh Clark?

  And if you look, you can clearly see that the first like seven are different color. But where they're supposed to be at the end, they're at the beginning and that is bad news if you're taking that pill. So if you have Taytula, go check it right now and go get some more.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, but um, I think I interrupted you on the side effects. Nausea, headaches, breast soreness, acne, depression, moodiness, weight gain, decreased libido. And sometimes these can be, um, like if, if you start out on the pill, it can be worse. A few cycles in, it might get better. And if it doesn't, you can, there are different pills out there.

• 41:06Josh Clark?

  There are, there's, um, so the, the, when those pills originally came out, that first formula, um, I think it was called like, uh, Inovid.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  That was the first one on the market?

• 41:16Josh Clark?

  The first one by Cyril.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Cyril?

• 41:18Josh Clark?

  Cyril. And they had 10 milligrams of, um, progesterone or progestin.

• 41:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:26Josh Clark?

  And 0.15 milligrams of estrogen. And that is like a nuclear bomb pill. Women had the worst side effects from it, like all these side effects, like each of them a Mack truck.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:40Josh Clark?

  And they were still willing to go through it to, to like have control of, of their body as far as pregnancy went. But they very quickly figured out through further research, you can do the same job. And the reason they selected that is like, they knew that there was not going to be any ovulation.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:57Josh Clark?

  With 10 milligrams of progesterone. And, um, so they figured out that you could formulate with a much lower amount of both progestin and estrogen and still get the job done. And they still do that today. I think the estrogen gets down into the micrograms and you can get like, um, 2.5 milligrams of progesterone in, in some forms of the pill.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:20Josh Clark?

  And then if, so if the pill is mistreating you, what you're saying is there are options, right?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, there are three main types of oral, did I say kypes? I think I did.

• 42:32Josh Clark?

  You also said cereal.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  There are three main types of the oral contraceptive pills now. Combination pills, progestin only, and extended release, which are the newest ones out there. The combination pill is the most common pill that you will get. The mini pill is the progestin only. And for some women, that's better, like if you're breastfeeding and you can't have the estrogen because it's going to affect your milk, you'll probably be on the mini pill. And the mini pill, peel, it works in a couple of different ways. It makes the endometrium too thin to accept that egg.

• 43:11Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  And it won't allow it to attach. And again, with the vaginal mucus, it makes it too thick to allow the sperm to reach the egg. But it is a little less effective, but still effective, but a little less than the combination pill.

• 43:25Josh Clark?

  Because it's almost like a different, they're different mechanisms.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, like it's 28 active pills for the mini pill.

• 43:32Josh Clark?

  Right, but rather than tricking the body into thinking it's released an egg, this is just making it hard to get pregnant.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:39Josh Clark?

  Right?

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 43:40Josh Clark?

  It's almost like a different kind of pill. And then there's, what's the other kind?

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Well, the combination pill, the most common, there's a few subtypes of that pill as well.

• 43:48Josh Clark?

  Right, so there's monophasic, which is what I was talking about, where you've got 21 pills and all of them are the same dose of progestin and estrogen. And then you've got the seven inert pills. And some women say, "I'm not going to have a period this month." And then you just, rather than taking those seven inert pills, you just move on to the next month's 21 pills.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  Yes, and I believe with the monophasic, if you miss a day, you can double up the next day.

• 44:15Josh Clark?

  Because it's the same amount of pills.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:16Josh Clark?

  Or the same level of hormones.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 44:18Josh Clark?

  So, yeah, that's, and that's far and away the most common. There's biphasic, which has two different levels of hormones. And then triphasic has three different levels. And the point of biphasic and triphasic is it, they're designed to give you the absolute minimum amount of synthetic hormones that your body requires to keep from ovulating.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:42Josh Clark?

  Because the, the point is, is the lower the amount of hormones you have in there, probably the better off you are, whether it's cancer risk, moodiness, who knows? You're, um, you're, you're just better off with the, the least amount that does the trick.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the kind of, uh, progestin in each of these is gonna vary, but the type of synthetic estrogen is the same.

• 45:06Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 45:07Speaker 02

  It's called ethanol, uh, estradiol.

• 45:11Josh Clark?

  Eric Estrada.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Estradiol, that's it. Ethanol estradiol.

• 45:16Josh Clark?

  Yep, but the, the progestin is the thing that, that differs sometimes, right?

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 45:21Josh Clark?

  And depending if like you're on a pill that uses one type of progestin, you can say, "Oh, I wanna try a different type of progestin," and then they'll say, "Here you go."

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Uh, and then the extended cycle, which we talked about, this is the newest, uh, the newest one on the market. And I believe, isn't this the one that is, can reduce your period to like a few, four, four times a year?

• 45:42Josh Clark?

  Yeah, so there's, um, there's a couple of different, there's Seasonal and Seasonique. And they're called that because that four time of your period, you'll just be like, "Oh, it's fall. Oh, it's summer."

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:54Josh Clark?

  Uh, not in that order, but you know what I'm saying. And then there's Librel, and I'm sure there's other ones on the market too. We don't mean to buzz market or anything like that. So there's, there's, um, there's one that's like 365 days, and then there's others that are 84 days, so that you have four, either no periods at all, or four periods a year.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:15Josh Clark?

  So there you go. So there's a couple of other things I wanna hit on. Um, the pill is, it's so much larger than just birth control.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 46:26Josh Clark?

  I mean, just the fact that it's birth control is an enormous thing. Like, like you said, John Rock thought he was gonna be able to convince the Catholic Church that, that this is an okay thing.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:35Josh Clark?

  That was not the case.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  No.

• 46:37Josh Clark?

  Um, in the late 60s, the Black Power Movement really zeroed in on the, the pill, especially the, the men of the Black Power Movement, and said like, "This is, this is tantamount to black genocide." And there, they definitely had like a, a case, like there were plenty of cases of, um, of black women who went into hospitals and gave birth and then came out unknowingly sterilized. Like the doctor had just taken it upon himself to sterilize her after delivering her baby.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:08Josh Clark?

  Um, so they're like, they had this, they had this- Evidence to back this up, and it was never shown like, yes, there was a conspiracy to to wipe out black power in America through the pill. But you like, there were plenty of black women at the time who said like, yeah, I can get birth control pills easier than anything. Um, that, you know, down at the like, corner clinic or something like that. And even, even with the early trials from John Rock and Gregory Pincus, like, one of the things that they zeroed in on Puerto Rico for was because they thought that if they

• 47:47Josh Clark?

  could show that backwards Puerto Ricans of color could, could learn how to take the pill regularly, it would demonstrate that women in the inner cities could, or women in developing countries could. So there was definitely like, a mentality toward the, the white establishment being on board with the idea of at least providing the tools for other, for minorities to, to control their rate of birth.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 48:20Josh Clark?

  That was, it just pure and simple. That was a thought of it.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:24Josh Clark?

  It, it was. And it's had tremendous amount of benefits too, but there were some, there was some darkness in the place that it originally came from as well.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, and of course, um, anti-abortion groups think that the pill still to this day is an abortion-causing agent when they call in, do you know how to pronounce that?

• 48:42Josh Clark?

  Abortifashant?

• 48:43Speaker 02

  Abortifashant.

• 48:44Josh Clark?

  I think so.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's right. Um, which, you know, that's, that's long been their argument.

• 48:51Josh Clark?

  Well, they, their argument is that it makes the, uh, the uterus hostile to a fertilized egg, like prolonged use would prevent a fertilized egg that would otherwise attach from attaching. And so that's for all intents and purposes abortion in their position.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 49:11Josh Clark?

  And yeah, that is, I don't think that one's settled by any stretch of the imagination.

• 49:16Josh Clark?

  So, you got anything else?

• 49:18Speaker 02

  I got nothing else.

• 49:19Josh Clark?

  As I predicted, this is a good one.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it was good.

• 49:23Josh Clark?

  I think it was great.

• 49:23Speaker 02

  I hope we did alright.

• 49:24Josh Clark?

  Yeah, cuz we're not like patronizing. We've never been patronizing.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 49:28Josh Clark?

  We might be like white dudes, but we're very much aware that we're white dudes. And, let me leave you with this white dude.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:34Josh Clark?

  If you're a white dude, whether it's in America, or the West, or anywhere, your one job is to have some perspective. That's your first and foremost job. Take yourself out of your own shoes once in a while. Look around, put yourself in other people's shoes. Your eyes will open widely and in a gog.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Some say walk a mile.

• 49:57Josh Clark?

  Sure, why not? Get a little weight off, right?

• 49:59Speaker 02

  At least go check the mail.

• 50:02Josh Clark?

  If you wanna know more about the pill, just type in "the pill." It'll bring up some cool stuff on HowStuffWorks.com. And there's also a really great American experience site on PBS that had a bunch of cool stuff.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Oh man, that was good. So good.

• 50:16Josh Clark?

  And since I said "American experience" and Chuck said "so good", it's time for listener mail.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  Oh, no it's not. No listener mail today, because we've had some milestones here lately. And as we sit here today in real time, we, as a company, are celebrating the 10-year anniversary of Stuff You Should Know.

• 50:36Josh Clark?

  Again.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Again. But we're actually having the party today.

• 50:40Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  And on the same day, Apple announced their...

• 50:47Josh Clark?

  WDCC.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, their developers' conference. Got up on stage and this one kinda hit me. Like, we had the 1,000 episodes, that was good. The 10 years kinda hit me in a big way. But they got up on stage today and they said that Stuff You Should Know is now the first podcast in history, first and only, to reach 500 million downloads and streams on their platform.

• 51:12Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  Which is... I didn't know.

• 51:16Josh Clark?

  No, it hit me too.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Somehow Adam Carolla's in the Guinness Book of World's Records.

• 51:20Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  But here we are.

• 51:22Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  As the only one. And that's because of you all out there.

• 51:26Josh Clark?

  Yes, for sure.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Said it a gazillion times, but without you, there is no us. We would have been long gone if not for your support. So we continue to give thanks.

• 51:35Josh Clark?

  Thank you again.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:37Josh Clark?

  And we'll continue to give thanks.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  And we will continue to podcast.

• 51:42Josh Clark?

  Yes, we will, Chuck. Yes, we will.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  And that's all I got.

• 51:44Josh Clark?

  If you want to get in touch with us, you can send us all an email to [email protected]. And as always, tune in to our extraordinarily grateful home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 52:16Josh Clark?

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota Ford Ability. And it starts with a great deal on an off-road-ready Tacoma or half-ton Tundra, two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. And they're built on a reputation for quality and reliability, which is why Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 52:47Speaker 02

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• 53:15Josh Clark?

  Everything. Terms and conditions apply. Just visit att.com/guarantee for details. If car shopping feels like a whole thing, buying your car online on AutoTrader makes it way easier. Really, shop tons of cars online, compare prices, check financing and trade-in options from wherever you are. Start online, test drive at the dealer, and finish wherever works for you. Your info stays with you, so there's no starting over. Plus, you're working with local dealers with real people there to help. Buy your car online on AutoTrader. Really.

• 53:48Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.