How the Goonch Stole Christmas

This episode was previously exclusive to our subscriber channels, so if you feel like you've heard it before, you might just have! If you like it, consider subscribing either to our Patreon or the Apple Grizclub using the links below and getting much, much more. On this episode, Wes introduces us all to the goonch, which turns out to be a real animal. He covers a couple of horrifying accounts of attacks by what is essentially a monster catfish, and we all learn something new and terrifying about the world. Meanwhile, Jeff gives out his lowest overall animal ranking ever, and Mike has a bit of a mental breakdown hearing about Wes's old eating habits. ~~ To advertise on the show, contact us! Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/c/toothandclawpodcast ~~ Tooth & Claw is brought to you by QCODE. Support the show and get access to an extensive library of exclusive episodes like this by supporting the show on Patreon or joining the Grizzly Club on Apple Podcasts. For the latest updates on the show and all things wildlife, follow us at toothandclawpod.com and social: Instagram: @ToothandClawPodcast Twitter: @ToothandClawPod Wes: @GrizKid Jeff: @jefe_larson Mike: @mikey3ds Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Wes Larson?

  Hey everyone. The episode you're hearing today is actually a selection from our subscription catalog. That's perfect timing because if you've got a toothy in your life that you're looking for the right gift for them, we really recommend our subscription channels. You can get us on Patreon or on Apple Grizz Club and you're gonna get access to hundreds of hours of extra content, some really fun bonus content. Like me and Mike just finished our four-part series on horror movies that we love. We call it the Mike and Wes No Pants Horror Movie Mix-Up. You're just gonna have to listen to see how we settled on that name. Jeff just did a really interesting subscription episode on Asian elephants and some of the countries that are having some issues with conflicts. Uh, it's just kind of a more wild and loose version of our podcast. Our subscribers tend to really love it

• 0:43Wes Larson?

  and we only charge 10 bucks a month. So you can get that today and you'll actually get early access to part two of Ghost Grizzlies of Colorado. Uh, and you're gonna hear a pretty crazy story about a man who battles a grizzly bear with only an arrow. So get it today. We promise you it'll be worth your while. It's a great value for a lot of extra Tooth and Claw content. Just Google Tooth and Claw Patreon in your favorite web browser or search us on Apple for Apple Grizz Club and sign up today.

• 1:24Jeff Larson?

  Hey everyone.

• 1:25Wes Larson?

  Hey everyone. Patrons.

• 1:27Jeff Larson?

  We got a treat for ya. Wes is doing his first Patreon.

• 1:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I was just about to say, I think this is the first one I've led.

• 1:35Jeff Larson?

  Do you need any pointers?

• 1:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah, give me some pointers, guys.

• 1:39Jeff Larson?

  You wanna just relax a bit.

• 1:40Wes Larson?

  Relax a bit?

• 1:41Jeff Larson?

  And I've, I find it's helpful to not do like very much prep.

• 1:47Wes Larson?

  Like no research, no prep?

• 1:49Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 1:50Jeff Larson?

  Uh.

• 1:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that has worked really well for you.

• 1:52Jeff Larson?

  Find a story online, just never even read it, just go straight and like, don't pre-read it at all. Just read it like as you're going.

• 2:02Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 2:02Mike Smith?

  Perfect. If you forget any details, just make them up. You can make up better stories than real stories usually.

• 2:09Wes Larson?

  Alright, well, hey, have you guys been getting ready for, uh, the holidays?

• 2:13Jeff Larson?

  I just drove home.

• 2:15Wes Larson?

  Oh, to Montana?

• 2:16Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 2:17Wes Larson?

  Jeff only visits when I'm not there.

• 2:20Jeff Larson?

  Probably the only time I've been here without you.

• 2:24Wes Larson?

  Have you guys been watching many Christmas movies? You watch Home Alone yet?

• 2:28Jeff Larson?

  I have not been watching very many Christmas movies.

• 2:31Wes Larson?

  You said that.

• 2:32Jeff Larson?

  I saw the new Spider-Man, which I liked a lot.

• 2:36Wes Larson?

  Yeah, yeah, that counts too. Mike, you saw The Matrix?

• 2:39Mike Smith?

  Yep.

• 2:40Wes Larson?

  You'll tell us nothing about it.

• 2:41Mike Smith?

  Zip. I'm zipped up.

• 2:44Jeff Larson?

  You know which one I read about that I want to re-watch was, uh, Scrooged, the Bill Murray.

• 2:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I'd like to re-watch that. I like a dark Christmas movie. I remember we watched Krampus a few years ago and you didn't like it. It was kind of gave us a weird vibe.

• 3:00Jeff Larson?

  You like it a lot.

• 3:01Wes Larson?

  I like it a lot. I really like that director, though. He did Trick or Treat 2, which is one of my favorite Halloween movies. And he did a Godzilla movie. He did King of the Monsters, I think. Yeah, Steven Spielberg.

• 3:13Mike Smith?

  I, I absorbed, uh, It's a Wonderful Life kind of was on during a family Christmas gathering. And that's about all I can take of that movie. We watched that movie every Christmas Eve we have my whole life. And at this point, I just, I love it. It's a great movie, but I don't, I don't know if I could really sit down and watch the whole thing in one sitting ever again.

• 3:34Wes Larson?

  You know, it's one that entered my lineup last year was the animated movie Klaus.

• 3:38Mike Smith?

  Oh, yeah, you were telling us about that.

• 3:40Wes Larson?

  It's like a very pleasant, just nice movie.

• 3:43Jeff Larson?

  It's a really good one.

• 3:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Okay. I got a question for you guys, though. Which of the booby traps in Home Alone would you least like to have happened to you? In the original Home Alone?

• 3:54Jeff Larson?

  That's the only Christmas movie I watched this year.

• 3:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 3:57Jeff Larson?

  Well, I'd, I'd say just Macaulay Culkin's Home Alones.

• 4:01Wes Larson?

  Okay. If you want to pull from number two, you can. Okay. I don't, I just don't know any of those ones.

• 4:05Jeff Larson?

  Uh, he like could have killed him with the bricks.

• 4:08Mike Smith?

  The bricks is pretty dangerous.

• 4:10Wes Larson?

  Well, even like the iron, him dropping the clothes iron on his face in the first one, definitely could have killed him. But the one, the one that always gets me are the Christmas ornaments when he steps on them.

• 4:22Jeff Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:22Wes Larson?

  The bulbs and stuff and they're all that just for some reason gets me.

• 4:26Jeff Larson?

  Takes me out of the movie because it's just like so obvious and like he just stomps on like every ornament.

• 4:35Wes Larson?

  Orn- ornament.

• 4:36Jeff Larson?

  Get it?

• 4:37Wes Larson?

  No, it's alright though. He, yeah, he like slams his feet down.

• 4:40Jeff Larson?

  Every single one of them and I'm just like, okay, this is the stupidest thing.

• 4:44Wes Larson?

  Well, it's also funny because he's already gotten like hit by the iron, had the nail in his foot, all that stuff. And then he still doesn't take the time to like look when he goes through the window, like just a quick glance at the ground.

• 4:58Jeff Larson?

  Yeah. So you know what's weird in that movie? They get beat up like really bad.

• 5:03Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 5:04Jeff Larson?

  Like all the booby traps and then just like some 90 year old guy bonks him with a shovel and they're just both unconscious.

• 5:12Wes Larson?

  Like completely out.

• 5:14Jeff Larson?

  Huge thing of paint nailing you in the face and you're just like, oh. With a shovel tapping you in the head and you're out.

• 5:22Wes Larson?

  That's a good point.

• 5:23Mike Smith?

  I, I also like the, of all the traps, I mean, I know tarantulas can do some damage, but like,

• 5:28Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 5:29Mike Smith?

  all things said and done, that's probably the least like painful one they all went through. But that's the one that everybody remembers just because of the scream.

• 5:38Wes Larson?

  Daniel Stern's scream at that part. Alright, so which, what's your guys' answer? Mine's the ornament.

• 5:43Jeff Larson?

  The nail. That's the one that like grosses me out the most.

• 5:47Mike Smith?

  If I had to pick one from the first movie, it'd be the nail, but um, my favorite trap of any of the Home Alone movies, one through five, or they're six now.

• 5:56Wes Larson?

  I have no idea.

• 5:57Mike Smith?

  I think the sixth one just killed the world.

• 5:59Wes Larson?

  That knows.

• 6:00Mike Smith?

  Uh, so the second movie when um, Daniel Stern, once again is screaming when he gets uh, shocked and he turns into the skeleton. That's so funny.

• 6:11Jeff Larson?

  That's great. Mike was telling me the plot of the fourth or fifth one is like. The burglars are dead and he is like booby trapping like ghosts.

• 6:22Mike Smith?

  Was I telling you that? I think I was making that up.

• 6:26Jeff Larson?

  It's true. On the IMDB, there's a Home Alone where it's like booby trapping ghosts that are trying to like.

• 6:33Mike Smith?

  Uh, that's good.

• 6:34Wes Larson?

  And it got made?

• 6:36Mike Smith?

  I mean, after five, where do you go from there? You know?

• 6:39Wes Larson?

  We should watch it sometime. Well, we could talk about Home Alone for hours, but we're not going to. We're going to talk instead about the goonch. So, well, let me tell you guys how I got here. So I really wanted to do a story on.

• 6:56Jeff Larson?

  Think you know how Patreon episodes work?

• 6:59Wes Larson?

  Let me tell you.

• 7:00Jeff Larson?

  It's still about animals.

• 7:01Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I, I wanted to do a story about an attack that happened on Christmas or like Christmas Eve or something. And so I was Googling just animal attacks and like with Christmas Day and all these things. And somehow I stumbled upon a headline that said, goonch attacks in the Cali River, India. And I was, I was really curious what a goonch was.

• 7:21Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 7:22Wes Larson?

  And so I did some research and we're going to learn about it. But I, I was so into it that it, it kind of stole the idea of like doing a Christmas story. So I'm going to call this story, how the goonch stole Christmas.

• 7:35Jeff Larson?

  Alright, good.

• 7:36Mike Smith?

  I bet there are a lot of animal attacks on Christmas Day. Because you know, little Timmy is getting like a puppy and grandpa is going to trip over that dog and stuff like that.

• 7:44Wes Larson?

  I found a good kangaroo one that was like Christmas Eve, but the goonch stole it.

• 7:49Mike Smith?

  Okay.

• 7:50Wes Larson?

  The goonch stole Christmas.

• 7:50Mike Smith?

  I'm excited for this.

• 7:51Wes Larson?

  No further ado. Alright, first of all, how do you guys feel about, about goonches?

• 7:57Jeff Larson?

  Confused.

• 7:58Mike Smith?

  Uh, yeah.

• 7:59Jeff Larson?

  Sounds like a sexual.

• 8:01Mike Smith?

  Aroused was almost the word I was going to use, yeah.

• 8:04Wes Larson?

  Well, it sounds like, what's the, it sounds like, um, gooch. Yeah, like you got kicked in the gooch. How big do you guys think a goonch can get?

• 8:15Jeff Larson?

  We don't know what they are.

• 8:16Wes Larson?

  There's just no frame of reference here. All right. Ten.

• 8:20Jeff Larson?

  An inch?

• 8:20Wes Larson?

  I think they can get ten big. All right, cool. So you guys don't know much about goonches, huh? Does anyone? We're gonna learn about goonches. So is the gooncha Dr. Seuss character? Uh, the goonch is not. The Grinch is, but this is how the goonch stole Christmas, not the Grinch. Okay, so it's a beautiful cold blue river. It runs from its headwaters in the Himalayas before widening and flowing through the jungles and forests of northern India and western Nepal. As I mentioned, it's named after the Hindu god of destruction and death, Kali, and the river forms a border between northern India and western Nepal for a lot of its journey. It's a really important and sacred river to the people in the area, but in the late 90s and the 2000s, something was lurking in the waters of the Kali River.

• 9:05Wes Larson?

  The goonch. So, in 1998, a 17-year-old Nepali boy, Dill Bahadur, which makes me think of Bahadur, uh, Sauron's fortress in Mordor, but it's Bahadur, it's not spelled the same way. He was swimming in the Kali River while he was waiting for a ferry to take him across the river into India. So his girlfriend was watching from the shore. She's smiling and waving to the swimming boy, and they're in really high spirits because they're actually traveling to India in the hopes of starting a new life together in a new country. Unfortunately, those dreams were about to be cut short. As Dill swam around, a large predator was attracted to his movement in the water and silently slipped through the water toward him.

• 9:47Wes Larson?

  Dill's girlfriend and several other onlookers then watched in horror as without a sound, he's pulled underwater by some unseen monster. He doesn't splash or scream, he's just gone in an instant. Oh, whoa. So they had launched this expansive search. They searched for multiple days along three miles of the river, but they never find a single, like, hint that he was ever there. They don't find his body, they don't find any clothing, they find nothing. He's just completely gone. A few months later, about a mile downstream in this town called Dharma Ghat, a young boy was washing himself in the river in about knee-deep water when something grabbed him by the legs. His father was standing nearby, heard the boy scream that something was pulling him into the water and had grabbed him,

• 10:31Wes Larson?

  but he couldn't get to the river in time to save his son, and the boy disappeared beneath the water of the river Kali. Again, really quick, really fast, just gone. And they again launch a search, they again look for the body, can't find anything.

• 10:46Jeff Larson?

  Weird.

• 10:47Wes Larson?

  That's weird since it happened in really relatively shallow water. That's Yeah, so not long after, it is spooky.

• 10:54Jeff Larson?

  I can't think of any animal like that.

• 10:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I've got one guess. Just wait, yeah.

• 10:59Jeff Larson?

  Gooch?

• 11:00Wes Larson?

  I'll give you a, I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with mooch. Um, or munch, I guess. Okay, so not long after, a rancher sees a 600-pound buffalo get pulled underwater by something that the farmer describes as larger than the buffalo. What? Um, so that's the craziest one for me. Uh, a gooch is what's like, a gooch is something else. This is a goonch, but we're not to it yet. Okay. Yeah, wait for categories, Jeff.

• 11:29Jeff Larson?

  Oh, I'm saying the gooch.

• 11:31Wes Larson?

  You're saying gooch, you're saying it wrong. Uh, the hidden predator did not strike again until nine years later in Nagru Ghat, when an 18-year-old Atal Kumar was swimming in the river Kali with a friend. His sudden scream shocked his friend and local villagers, who turned to see the boy pulled under the water. This time though, a local villager, Surenada Bora, saw the attacker, and he said it looked like an elongated pig, and he identified it as a soos. A soos is just kind of like a mythological fish monster that can suck in prey from a distance, as far as I could gather.

• 12:07Jeff Larson?

  Like Kirby?

• 12:08Wes Larson?

  These attacks are happening. Yeah, like Kirby. So he's more of a cloud monster.

• 12:13Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Wes Larson?

  These attacks are happening. No one really knows what they are. Three people have died. A buffalo has died and it's kind of this crazy mystery. So have you guys ever watched the show River Monsters?

• 12:24Jeff Larson?

  I know.

• 12:25Wes Larson?

  It's on Animal Planet and it's this guy Jeremy Wade, who goes and he investigates these kinds of things. And he catches fish that are like potentially dangerous or whatever that live in the river. Not so much ocean fish.

• 12:36Jeff Larson?

  He gets some big old fish.

• 12:37Wes Larson?

  In the river. He does. So one of his first episodes was actually to go investigate this animal that he wasn't sure what it was. So I'm going to kind of run you through how that looked, his investigation. So in 2009, he traveled to the Colly River and along the search, he's visiting these locations where some of the deaths happened. And he's talking to eyewitnesses and one of the first theories he comes up with is whirlpools. Because it's like a pretty fast moving river. And for someone just to get sucked under immediately and not show back up like a whirlpool is kind of something that would make sense. But the thing that doesn't make sense is that all of these men, when they were killed, they were in like really shallow water, waist deep. Actually, the third was swimming across the river, but the rest of them were in waist deep water.

• 13:21Wes Larson?

  And the thing that really doesn't make sense about it is the second one, the boy who was killed in front of his father yelled out, something's got me. And the third one, a guy said he thought he saw an elongated pig attacking him.

• 13:33Mike Smith?

  Pigs and whirlpools aren't often confused for each other.

• 13:36Wes Larson?

  And also like the fact that they never found the bodies or anything. If they had just drowned, there's a good chance they would have washed up somewhere, but they didn't find anything. So whirlpools were eliminating that possibility.

• 13:48Mike Smith?

  Yeah, throw that out.

• 13:50Jeff Larson?

  And like, does he think that it's possible for there to be like some type of predator, like a crocodile or something?

• 13:57Wes Larson?

  Oh, Jeff, once again, right on time with the segue. The second most obvious culprit after whirlpool was a crocodile. So in India, there's three species of crocodile. We've got your saltwater crocodiles, which we've talked about and we know is like more than capable of killing a person. Big old guys. Yeah, you've got a mugger crocodile, which also can kill a person or a buffalo. And then you've got a gharial, gharial, gharial. I always say it wrong. I know I've always liked them my entire life, but I don't know how to pronounce their name. But they're the ones that have the really long snouts that are super thin and like tons of teeth and they're fish eaters. Oh, yeah. They're fish eaters. They don't have the capability to kill people. Like they just don't.

• 14:42Wes Larson?

  What kind were, you talked about Temple of Doom. Which ones are those? Those are mugger crocodiles. Mugger. So mugger crocodiles are the most common in India and saltwater crocodiles don't live on the Kali River, but mugger crocodiles do. So that like then- They can't use magic either? They can't. What do you mean? Just the muggle. Oh. It's a real bad joke. You know, you gotta, you gotta get up to bat to hit a home run. I'll take a step away and let you go for a while. Anyway, so they, so Jeremy Wade, this guy who's visiting decides to look into mugger crocodiles. Now, the things that don't make sense about it being a mugger crocodile is that these attacks

• 15:25Wes Larson?

  happen pretty far up river on the Kali River where it's still really cold and pretty fast. And mugger crocodiles like really big expansive rivers that are warm and they like to pull themselves up on the bank to sun and whatnot. And in these areas where these attacks happen, no one's ever seen a crocodile. They've never seen them sunning on the banks and the water's really cold. So it just really doesn't make sense that a mugger crocodile would be up there. And then that's kind of what he said, but I wanted to add, when a crocodile attacks someone, it usually makes a bit more of a commotion. Like you typically see the tail come out of the water or the head or something. And then often, even if they pull- The water would probably get bloody.

• 16:06Wes Larson?

  Right. And even when they pull someone down, like they often come back up with the person in their jaws because as we talked about, they're not great at eating underwater. They have to eat above water. So- They like tear them up a bit. Right. So it doesn't make sense that it's a crocodile either. So the next option would be a bull shark. Bull shark says we've talked about again can live in fresh water and they do travel up the Ganges River and other rivers in India. So that's a real possibility. But again, we're really far upstream. We're in cold, fast-moving water and bull sharks tend to be in like bigger rivers and they like to be at confluences and they generally if you if there's a bull shark in the river, you'll like see their fin cutting through the water every once in a while. And

• 16:50Wes Larson?

  again, they like kind of make a mess when they eat. They don't like eat something whole. So you're gonna have blood and you're gonna have remains and all these other things. But I will say of all the other options besides a goonch, which we're about to get to, I think bull shark is the only one that there's like a possibility. It's a bull shark. So we're not

• 17:09Jeff Larson?

  Goonch is like a type of whale.

• 17:12Wes Larson?

  We're not closing the door on. Yeah, it could be. But it's not. We're not closing the door on bull sharks. But we are opening the door on goonches.

• 17:21Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 17:23Wes Larson?

  Okay. All right. I think we can close the door on the other Bull sharks, we can keep the door open.

• 17:29Jeff Larson?

  Name it. How the goonch stole Christmas.

• 17:31Wes Larson?

  Right, right, right. What are you? What are you saying?

• 17:35Jeff Larson?

  Like, I think everyone kind of knows that it's gonna be

• 17:38Wes Larson?

  It's probably a good. Yeah.

• 17:39Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 17:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Unless you're really you're a master. You're like Stephen King, who really M. Night, M. Night Shyamalan. Twists. Yeah, that's a better one. It is a goonch. I got no twists for you.

• 17:51Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 17:52Wes Larson?

  All right. So

• 17:54Jeff Larson?

  So can we close the door on bull sharks?

• 17:56Wes Larson?

  No, it because they actually don't know for sure that it's a that it's a goonch. But we're pretty sure. So this fisherman and biologist Jeremy Wade, he talked to the guy who said that it like he had that he thought it was a sous. And then he kind of teased out that a sous was another name for a goonch. And a goonch is actually a massive catfish. So there you finally know what a goonch is. It's a massive, massive catfish. They're also commonly referred to as the giant devil catfish. They can get massive.

• 18:28Jeff Larson?

  Like to eat a person?

• 18:30Wes Larson?

  So there's there's another type of catfish called the Mekong River catfish that lives in Thailand, I think. I don't have this in my notes or anything, but I know they can get up to like 700 pounds.

• 18:41Jeff Larson?

  Oh, my God.

• 18:42Wes Larson?

  So we're going to talk a little bit more about the goonch. But they're actually We don't know a ton about them. So this is going to be a little light on biology and I'm just going to preface this with like, you guys know, a lot of times I have lots of facts that I can kind of pull out of the old file index in my brain. This one, I don't know anything about catfish. I didn't know anything about goonch going into this. So everything I learned, I learned from my research and there's not a ton. But a few things that I did learn, they're found in large rivers of the Indian subcontinent. They typically hang out in big, slow pools near a fast-moving current. They can grow to be larger than seven feet long. They have massive mouths with large backward-facing teeth. Just for a reference, like their teeth kind of look like

• 19:26Wes Larson?

  a Mako shark's teeth, but they just don't have quite as many, but they have big teeth, like over an inch long, these really big goonch. And they're sharp. They're not like what you would expect from a catfish. They're like big, sharp teeth. They are bottom feeders, like all other catfish. They're negatively buoyant. Uh, Mike, you're a diver. What's it mean when you're negatively buoyant? It means you sink. Right. They sink. Um, they have large, flat, bony heads that they use to like get food on the bottom. Uh, and that also helps as a hydrofoil. It like pushes the water over their head. Uh, a really interesting thing about catfish is their bodies are covered with chemo receptors, which means that they can like touch something to taste it. So they don't need to taste with their mouth. They can actually taste with their bodies.

• 20:11Wes Larson?

  I'm glad humans don't have that. Yeah, that would suck.

• 20:13Jeff Larson?

  We kind of do.

• 20:14Wes Larson?

  If you're constant, you can touch something.

• 20:16Jeff Larson?

  Touch it with your tongue.

• 20:17Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Yes.

• 20:20Jeff Larson?

  Just depends what you use to touch it.

• 20:22Wes Larson?

  Well, all of their body, they can touch it with. They can also smell chemicals in the water with those chemo receptors. And these kind of like, these taste receptors and the chemo receptors are really key in them finding food. That's how they use that to find food. And I think that's important for our story and I'm going to explain why, which is something I kind of pieced together, but wasn't in any of the articles that I read. Okay. They do not have scales. Their bodies are often just naked skin covered in mucus. So sometimes catfish will have like plating almost, but the goonch is like pretty much naked. It's just like a fish that doesn't have scales and it's all mucousy. Most catfish also have a hollow, bony spine on their dorsal and pectoral fins.

• 21:06Wes Larson?

  And those spines can be locked into place when something like has them. And then that can like poke something and it can cause a lot of injury, actually. So if you've ever caught a catfish, you have to be careful with their fins because they can poke you with those spines. And there are actually a few catfish that have venom in those spines. And striped eel catfish have a venom so lethal, it can kill a human.

• 21:27Jeff Larson?

  Wow.

• 21:28Wes Larson?

  The goonch has spines, but it doesn't have any known venom. The world record goonch was six and a half feet long and 250 pounds. But they aren't very heavily fished and most biologists agree that they can probably get a lot bigger than that. But that's like the world record. The smaller ones are heavily fished. The smaller ones are actually heavily fished, but the bigger ones, people just can't catch them. They're really tricky. This guy like Jeremy Wade, he was down there fishing for like weeks and weeks and weeks before he finally caught a big one. He caught lots of little ones, but the big ones are hard to catch.

• 22:01Jeff Larson?

  Is the river like clear enough that you could see them in their pools or is it like?

• 22:06Wes Larson?

  When he was looking for them, there was one pool they got to where they saw one. And then they like dove in there and saw a bunch of little ones. But then kind of the rain started and everything and the water got pretty murky and they couldn't see them.

• 22:18Jeff Larson?

  Okay.

• 22:20Wes Larson?

  So he's out there fishing and looking for goonch. He finds a few. They're like three to five feet long. But he doesn't encounter one that's big enough to eat a man. But then he talks to more villagers and he learns something really interesting. He learns that there's these places along this river where they light funeral pyres. Which essentially they like have a body right next to the river, they burn it. And then in Hinduism, there's like a certain level where after the body is burnt to that level, they believe the soul has left the body. And then they just dumped the body in the river after that. So they were dumping a lot of bodies into the river. And his theory is that one of these goonch was like hanging out near these funeral pyres and just eating human remains on the bottom and getting really big off of human remains.

• 23:05Wes Larson?

  And that kind of makes sense to me because if they're like constantly tasting humans and like eating human remains, then if Get a taste for human flesh? Kinda, and like we've, we've dispelled that with like a lot of other animals that most animals don't get a taste for our flesh. What they learn is like people are easy to kill. And that's when like man eaters start killing people. It's because we're just easy, but it's not so much because they like our taste. But it is possible that this goonch did kind of acquire that taste. And then when it was swimming in the water and it maybe bumped into one of these boys or was close enough to taste them, it was like, oh, this is my meal. This is the thing I eat. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's my theory that I came up with. Uh huh. Anyway, he's having a really hard time catching a big goonch.

• 23:50Wes Larson?

  You know, we've all been there. It's hard to catch a big goonch.

• 23:53Jeff Larson?

  I've never caught one.

• 23:55Wes Larson?

  So wait, he decides to erect a decoy funeral pyre. He doesn't put anything on it, but he has the ashes going into the water and like the flame right by the water, hoping that, that that'll attract a big goonch. And weirdly enough, it does. And he hooks into a really big goonch and actually catches the world record goonch at the time, which was over six feet long and 160 pounds. Now, now like they've caught a bigger one that's 230 pounds. But he pulls this fish up and like in the video, it's pretty crazy. Like it has big old teeth and a huge mouth. It's not big enough to kill a person, not even close. But he and other biologists think that it's not too hard to imagine a goonch that's twice as big as this goonch.

• 24:40Wes Larson?

  So if there was one that big, it could easily kill a person. And they also have like a really strong suction so they could like suck them underwater and just as they're negatively buoyant, they just go to the bottom and just hold that person underwater until they die and then just like suck them up and eat them. So that's the prevailing theory is that these three men were killed by a goonch.

• 25:03Jeff Larson?

  That's crazy.

• 25:04Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I had no idea.

• 25:06Jeff Larson?

  I wouldn't have ever thought a catfish was capable of.

• 25:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:11Jeff Larson?

  Adult.

• 25:11Wes Larson?

  You should look at photos of the Mekong River catfish because they are massive.

• 25:17Mike Smith?

  Like, yeah, I'm looking at one right now. River jaws, monster catfish. That thing is huge.

• 25:22Wes Larson?

  You should put, put one on as your background mic so Jeff can see it. And then also you should share, uh, share a picture of goonch teeth too.

• 25:30Mike Smith?

  Just sharing my screen real quick.

• 25:31Wes Larson?

  That's what I, yeah, so that's a Mekong River catfish. That could easily swallow, especially a smaller person. And then type in goonch teeth.

• 25:39Jeff Larson?

  Mike's computer background is just a frog killing itself.

• 25:43Wes Larson?

  So that, that far one, that, that's Jeremy Wade with the goonch. Like, that's the one he caught.

• 25:48Jeff Larson?

  Oh yeah, that thing's got a gnarly mouth.

• 25:50Wes Larson?

  Yeah, they got some teeth.

• 25:52Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 25:52Wes Larson?

  I mean, they're not like, you know, they're not like a catfish you'd want to noodle for. You guys know what noodling is, right?

• 25:59Jeff Larson?

  Uh, yeah, where you stick your arm in and the catfish comes and bites it.

• 26:03Wes Larson?

  Exactly. Hey Mike, how's that frog doing? Is he falling?

• 26:07Mike Smith?

  It's a William Steeg book called Gorky Rises. Some of our more cultured listeners will probably recognize that.

• 26:13Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 26:13Mike Smith?

  Is a.

• 26:14Wes Larson?

  He's fallen to his death though, right?

• 26:15Mike Smith?

  One of the more famous children's books. No, he's flying.

• 26:18Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 26:18Mike Smith?

  He made a little potion, he can float. Don't worry about the frog, he's okay, guys.

• 26:23Wes Larson?

  So that's the goonch story. Um, it's kind of an un, it's like an unsolved mystery, but everyone seems to agree that it was a goonch. There is, I do think there's a chance it was a bull shark though. But I, I'm, you know, I'm team goonch. I think it's a goonch.

• 26:39Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it makes sense a bit. I think maybe just that was like his way of breaking up with her.

• 26:46Wes Larson?

  Just by dying?

• 26:47Jeff Larson?

  He just, no, he just held his breath and like went down the river.

• 26:52Wes Larson?

  Fled the country. What about the other two?

• 26:55Jeff Larson?

  That's I don't have a theory for that.

• 26:57Wes Larson?

  Yeah, okay.

• 26:58Jeff Larson?

  Want a new dad?

• 26:59Wes Larson?

  All right, so we're gonna do um, we're gonna do ouchies of getting eaten by a catfish. I guess you're getting eaten, you're getting killed. To me, it's it's like, I don't think the ouchies are that high. Like, I'm gonna give it a seven. But as far as like psychological horror, like if I get pulled underwater by something and I realize it's a massive catfish, it's gonna scare me pretty bad. Like, I'm be really freaked out.

• 27:25Jeff Larson?

  Wow, you're dying, you mean?

• 27:27Wes Larson?

  Yeah, like that to me is worse than being attacked by a shark or a crocodile. Because it's like-

• 27:32Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, it would suck to like see the surface and not be able to like go up.

• 27:37Wes Larson?

  Right, and also be like, oh, this is a catfish, I'm gonna be fine. And then like realize like, I'm not fine, like it's eating me.

• 27:42Mike Smith?

  It's actually a sea monster, basically.

• 27:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 27:45Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I'll go with a six. I might even go lower than, no, I feel six is the right place, just because. Yeah, the, I mean, it's pretty horrifying when you see this thing. We'll post a picture, I'm sure. But on the grand spectrum of animals that we've talked about and ways to die, I don't know.

• 28:02Jeff Larson?

  Uh, yeah, I'm gonna give it a six, just so we got six, six, six.

• 28:06Wes Larson?

  Six, six, six.

• 28:07Jeff Larson?

  And-

• 28:08Mike Smith?

  That's a good reason.

• 28:08Jeff Larson?

  I think Wes is right, drowning, especially if you can like see the surface-

• 28:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Jeff Larson?

  Would be pretty horrifying.

• 28:16Mike Smith?

  I would say, though, I've always thought a cool way to, not to die, but to be used after death would be to like, just go be planted out in the middle of the forest or something and let my remains serve as, you know, nutrients for new plant life.

• 28:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Mike Smith?

  I wouldn't be, I wouldn't mind being like cooked up and served to some fish.

• 28:35Wes Larson?

  Me neither.

• 28:35Mike Smith?

  You know?

• 28:36Wes Larson?

  I don't care.

• 28:36Mike Smith?

  Let them have a little bit of me.

• 28:37Wes Larson?

  To be honest, I don't care what happens to me after I die, like-

• 28:41Mike Smith?

  Same.

• 28:41Wes Larson?

  I just want to be like dumped into a river. I just want it to be cheap. I don't want to like people to go broke trying to bury me in some gilded coffin. Just dump me in a river.

• 28:50Jeff Larson?

  Are we gonna do the, what would Jeff and Mike do?

• 28:53Wes Larson?

  Yeah, we are.

• 28:54Jeff Larson?

  Oh, cool, I got an answer.

• 28:56Mike Smith?

  All right, okay. Should we just go into categories then?

• 28:59Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Mike Smith?

  Let's go.

• 29:01Jeff Larson?

  Well, we're in it, right? We just did outies.

• 29:04Wes Larson?

  No, outies are more like end of the story, but we'll do, yeah, we'll launch into categories. What would Jeff and Mike do?

• 29:10Jeff Larson?

  Uh, so I would put, so it has my foot and I'm like on the bottom of the river.

• 29:16Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 29:17Jeff Larson?

  I would put my other foot like right on its face and then with both hands, I'd just grab its whiskers and just yank towards me as hard as I could.

• 29:26Wes Larson?

  That was gonna be mine.

• 29:27Jeff Larson?

  Whiskers.

• 29:28Wes Larson?

  That might work. So those whiskers are called barbells.

• 29:30Jeff Larson?

  And if it lets go, I'm not gonna let go. I'm gonna be like, you tried to kill me. I'm gonna rip these suckers off.

• 29:37Mike Smith?

  Yeah. So what I would do is you know how cats really hate getting pet against the grain of their fur?

• 29:43Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 29:43Mike Smith?

  That's what I would do.

• 29:44Wes Larson?

  Pet it the wrong way.

• 29:45Mike Smith?

  I'd pet backwards on the fish and it'd

• 29:47Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 29:48Mike Smith?

  Get real and it'd growl and run.

• 29:51Wes Larson?

  Yeah, right.

• 29:53Jeff Larson?

  Laser pointer.

• 29:54Wes Larson?

  So I actually don't really have a good answer for what you do if you're attacked by a goonch. It seems like there's not much if it's that big of a goonch, like it can pull you underwater pretty quick. I think Jeff's answer is probably a pretty good one, like grab them by the barbells and just like pull on them as hard as you can.

• 30:14Mike Smith?

  Is that what they're called? Barbells?

• 30:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah, B A R B E L S, barbells.

• 30:19Mike Smith?

  Barbells.

• 30:19Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I don't have a good answer. If you're swimming in the Kali River in India, the upper Kali River, watch out for goonches. Cause a goonch will get you.

• 30:29Mike Smith?

  Good advice.

• 30:30Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Jeff Larson?

  I, I actually might not put my foot on its head, just because you said they don't have scales. So like they're just pure slimy.

• 30:38Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it'd be gross.

• 30:39Jeff Larson?

  Gross.

• 30:40Wes Larson?

  Well, it might have you by like the middle too. I do think this is an animal that potentially joins our list of animals that could maybe swallow a person whole.

• 30:49Jeff Larson?

  Really?

• 30:50Wes Larson?

  Um, I don't know. It seems like that's almost like maybe what happened to these people because they didn't find any remains or anything. So it could be, it could be that a really big goonch.

• 31:00Jeff Larson?

  Ate it like piece by piece.

• 31:02Wes Larson?

  I don't know. Catfish just like inhale stuff, like Kirby.

• 31:07Mike Smith?

  Yeah, and get their powers.

• 31:08Jeff Larson?

  That's like their same size.

• 31:10Wes Larson?

  Yeah, not if they're like, this one was six feet long, but they think there could be one that's like 10 feet long out there. So Jeremy Wade, he claims to have seen one that was like 800 to 1,000 pounds when he was like swimming. So if there's one that big, it could, it could just inhale a person, especially like, these were kind of smaller dudes. It's, it's a possibility that it did just suck them right in.

• 31:33Jeff Larson?

  Well, I mean, even better for me.

• 31:35Wes Larson?

  Why?

• 31:36Jeff Larson?

  I'd prefer to, like, I've said, I've said this before, but I think if I'm inside the animal.

• 31:42Wes Larson?

  Yeah, you can punch your way out.

• 31:43Mike Smith?

  Yeah, that's right where you want to be.

• 31:47Jeff Larson?

  Start ripping out hearts and livers and.

• 31:50Mike Smith?

  Right. Punch them on the inside of the gut.

• 31:53Jeff Larson?

  Uh huh.

• 31:53Mike Smith?

  Getting punched in the stomach like normally hurts. Can you imagine from the inside?

• 31:58Wes Larson?

  You could do a lot more damage than, than a water buffalo.

• 32:02Jeff Larson?

  If I like bit it on the outside compared to bit biting it on the inside.

• 32:07Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 32:08Mike Smith?

  Good point.

• 32:09Wes Larson?

  All right. So yeah, I don't have great advice for people. Probably just the same advice is like, if you're around crocodiles, just do your best to stay out of the water unless you know what's in the water with you.

• 32:18Jeff Larson?

  Kinda sucks. It sounds like a cool river.

• 32:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 32:21Mike Smith?

  This is one of those episodes where I came in not thinking there were any more animals that I needed to be afraid of. And now there's one more on the list.

• 32:30Wes Larson?

  The goonch dude.

• 32:31Mike Smith?

  Goonch.

• 32:31Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's also a fun one to say.

• 32:33Mike Smith?

  So the goonch stole Christmas in what way?

• 32:37Wes Larson?

  Because I was gonna do a Christmas episode and the goonch stole that. Cause I found the goonch.

• 32:43Mike Smith?

  Oh, okay. So these didn't all happen on like Christmas day or something?

• 32:47Wes Larson?

  How the goonch stole Christmas was by derailing me from my plans.

• 32:51Jeff Larson?

  There's no Christmas.

• 32:52Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 32:53Jeff Larson?

  There's no Christmas theme to the episode.

• 32:55Wes Larson?

  The goonch succeeded.

• 32:57Jeff Larson?

  The name of the episode now.

• 32:58Wes Larson?

  We did, we talked about Home Alone.

• 33:02Wes Larson?

  All right.

• 33:02Mike Smith?

  Oh, yeah. Something completely related to the story.

• 33:05Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Okay. So I also wanted to ask you guys, we're talking about a catfish. I want you to tell me your favorite animal that has another animal's name in its name. And just to like illustrate what I mean by that, I'll go first. Mine is a whale shark. It's a shark, but it's a whale shark. So.

• 33:23Mike Smith?

  I didn't even think of that one. That's a good one.

• 33:25Jeff Larson?

  Never actually liked that name.

• 33:26Wes Larson?

  I hate that name because it always confuses all my friends when we go see whale sharks. They're always like, oh, we saw some whales. And it's like, no, we didn't. We saw some sharks. But it's a descriptive.

• 33:37Jeff Larson?

  Confusing.

• 33:37Wes Larson?

  It's a descriptive name. It's like how a catfish.

• 33:39Mike Smith?

  So you think it should be shark whales?

• 33:41Wes Larson?

  No, it's just like, people get confused because they're so big, but it's, it's just a name. It's descriptive. But whale sharks are my favorite. I'm not saying it's like the best name, but that's my favorite animal that has another animal's name in its name.

• 33:55Jeff Larson?

  See, I took it as like, what's my favorite name? So I chose sea, seahorse.

• 34:02Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 34:02Jeff Larson?

  Cause I just think.

• 34:03Wes Larson?

  Just to make mad Mike.

• 34:04Jeff Larson?

  It's a perfect name.

• 34:05Wes Larson?

  Mad Mike.

• 34:06Jeff Larson?

  I think it's a perfect name for those fish because they do look like horses.

• 34:11Wes Larson?

  They do.

• 34:11Jeff Larson?

  And like, they are just like really funny looking animals to me.

• 34:16Wes Larson?

  I've always wanted to see one.

• 34:16Jeff Larson?

  Like the name Seahorse. I like the animal a lot, too.

• 34:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 34:20Mike Smith?

  They're interesting. A lot more interesting than real horses. Uh, my pick is the rhinoceros beetle.

• 34:27Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:28Mike Smith?

  And close second is leopard frog. I think those are sweet.

• 34:32Wes Larson?

  I love leopard frogs.

• 34:33Mike Smith?

  But, uh, rhino, rhinoceros beetle is the one. Those guys, they're like, yeah, they're like the powerlifting champions of the bug universe.

• 34:41Jeff Larson?

  They're pretty sweet.

• 34:42Mike Smith?

  Have you seen them?

• 34:43Jeff Larson?

  I like that choice.

• 34:43Mike Smith?

  They flip over stuff.

• 34:44Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Jeff bought me one once, uh, like a taxidermied one. Or was that a rhinoceros beetle or a different kind?

• 34:51Jeff Larson?

  I tried to buy you a Hercules beetle, but it does kind of look like a rhinoceros beetle. So I don't know.

• 34:56Wes Larson?

  I think it was a Hercules.

• 34:57Jeff Larson?

  They're pretty good at flipping stuff.

• 34:59Mike Smith?

  Yeah. You gotta watch out. They could, you think they could flip a human over?

• 35:03Wes Larson?

  Uh, if one grew to be the size of a goonch, it could. Oh, a beetle. Yeah, you're right. No, I don't think so. Alright, so our next category is how are we messing things up for the goonch? I misspoke earlier. They are being overfished, but it's the smaller goonch that are being overfished.

• 35:21Jeff Larson?

  Were they overfished?

• 35:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah, and then-

• 35:24Jeff Larson?

  Is that a bad thing?

• 35:25Wes Larson?

  It is.

• 35:25Jeff Larson?

  If they're killing people?

• 35:27Wes Larson?

  Yeah, they're important to their ecosystem. Like, we don't ever want an animal to, I mean,

• 35:32Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 35:33Wes Larson?

  We take our risks.

• 35:33Jeff Larson?

  I just never really, we'll get to this in the last, or one of the last categories, but I just never liked catfish.

• 35:40Wes Larson?

  Okay. Uh huh. That doesn't mean they should be killed, though. Anyway, they're being overfished. Uh, they also are losing some habitat to like hydroelectric dams and stuff like that. And then also, a lot of the, a lot of the rivers in India are becoming really polluted. I will say, though, like, these guys live far enough upstream. I don't think they really have that problem. And they're bottom feeders, so they do pretty well in, in different environments. But I think their main problem right now is overfishing and habitat loss.

• 36:09Jeff Larson?

  Why do people fish them? Do they like taste good?

• 36:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I, I think they're- They do. They taste like catfish.

• 36:16Jeff Larson?

  You haven't ate a goonch? You didn't even know what one was?

• 36:19Wes Larson?

  Goonch. A catfish?

• 36:20Jeff Larson?

  Gooch. I mean,

• 36:21Wes Larson?

  Oh, well, sure.

• 36:23Jeff Larson?

  A lot of catfish taste different, right?

• 36:24Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that's true. But catfish is okay. So goonch is probably good, too. You know, a big old pile of steaming plate of goonch. Who doesn't love that? Pile of goonch. Yeah. Yeah, slap some goonch on your plate. Alright, so our next category is patron questions.

• 36:44Jeff Larson?

  Okay. From Jennifer, I probably should have prepped you guys on this one, but we'll see how good you are thinking on your feet.

• 36:51Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 36:52Jeff Larson?

  Um.

• 36:52Wes Larson?

  Usually not pretty good.

• 36:54Jeff Larson?

  Who and or what is something that has really inspired you in your life?

• 36:59Wes Larson?

  Okay, I can do that one. Well, I don't want to repeat myself, though. I was just gonna say Steve Irwin again.

• 37:06Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 37:06Wes Larson?

  But I'll think of some. No, I'm gonna think of something better. Do you guys have anyone that you want to say?

• 37:13Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 37:14Wes Larson?

  Who?

• 37:14Jeff Larson?

  Steve Irwin.

• 37:15Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 37:16Mike Smith?

  Okay, you stole mine.

• 37:18Wes Larson?

  Yeah. I'll say, I'll say David Attenborough. He's another naturalist that I just like, uh, he's like one person that I'll be really upset when he's gone. Because I think we all know him as like the voice of all those cool nature documentaries, but he also has done a lot of really cool conservation work and just seems like the most interesting person in the world. And from all accounts is like a really nice, genuine person, too. So he's pretty inspiring to me. I really like David Attenborough.

• 37:47Mike Smith?

  I'll pick Bill Bryson. He's my favorite nonfiction writer. Uh, he takes things that sound like they would be mundane, but makes them super interesting. He did like a short history of nearly everything in or at home. And I just find the way he writes to be really inspiring insofar as it makes my little curiosity neurons fire in my brain. Right. He's great.

• 38:09Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 38:09Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna say Adam from Adam and Eve.

• 38:13Wes Larson?

  All right. Any reason?

• 38:16Jeff Larson?

  Uh, just seemed like a good guy, you know?

• 38:20Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 38:21Mike Smith?

  That's all it takes.

• 38:26Jeff Larson?

  I mean, it's kind of my, I'm related to him.

• 38:28Wes Larson?

  Stream of consciousness.

• 38:32Jeff Larson?

  All right. So this one I'm doing combined to, we got Hot Wheels and Henna. So they want to know what are all the animals me and you have worked with? So it's mainly going to be you answering that. And also something we were surprised to learn about that animal.

• 38:51Wes Larson?

  Yeah. So Jeff's just worked with me on the Black Bear Project, but he's gotten to

• 38:56Jeff Larson?

  A little help with owls.

• 38:57Wes Larson?

  He's gotten to come help with owls, but I, so I've worked on black bears, grizzly bears, polar bears, sloth bears, golden eagles, kestrels, burrowing owls, flamulated owls, African wild dogs, Tammy's ground pangolin, green sea turtle, eastern hellbender, spotted eagle ray.

• 39:18Wes Larson?

  Southern elephant seal and I'm forgetting someone. Did you say the African wild dog? Argentine tegu, yeah, I said Argentine tegu, American alligator. Yeah, those are the main ones, but uh, one thing that I really liked, since we talked about African wild dogs a little bit. A really cool thing about them that I'll say is that they're one of another like altruistic animal. So when there's like a injured um, adult or whatever in the pack. They'll actually feed that injured animal before they eat, which is something that you just like, don't see in nature. But they'll actually do that and they're like, they have a super tight social bond and structure. So they're really.

• 40:01Wes Larson?

  What was the other animal that we talked about that's like that? Wasn't it bees that we said were altruistic? Or maybe it was. No, it's the bats. It was the bats. Bats, yeah. They vomited, they vomited the blood into other bats' mouths.

• 40:13Jeff Larson?

  Another interesting thing with the African wild dogs is we rub their noses into the other ones buttholes.

• 40:21Wes Larson?

  Into their buttholes.

• 40:22Jeff Larson?

  Like each other.

• 40:23Wes Larson?

  Yeah, while they're sedated, we, we rubbed poop all over their faces so that they would like each other. So if you guys want to watch that. You drugged them and rubbed their faces in shit? Just, just Google Mission Wild African Wild Dogs. Huh. Yeah. Uh, great big story, Mission Wild African Wild Dogs. Have you not seen those, Mike? No. Alright. No, I, I saw one where you were playing around with some bird, I think. I'm gonna make you watch them, I think.

• 40:48Jeff Larson?

  Woof, gotta gain my composure here.

• 40:53Jeff Larson?

  Okay, so we got Robert wanting to know what our favorite animal penis is.

• 40:59Wes Larson?

  Oh, that's a good question.

• 41:00Jeff Larson?

  And he says his is a dragonfly. Anyone know what's special about dragonfly penis?

• 41:05Wes Larson?

  I don't. Breathes fire, maybe?

• 41:09Mike Smith?

  That's what dragons are known for.

• 41:10Jeff Larson?

  I'm just gonna say blue whales cuz that's like bigger than a person.

• 41:14Wes Larson?

  The biggest.

• 41:15Mike Smith?

  Mine's walrus cuz it's the biggest in relation to their size, I think. That's what I've heard at least.

• 41:22Wes Larson?

  It's the it's the biggest that has an actual bone in it.

• 41:26Mike Smith?

  Ooh, that's a good fact to know.

• 41:28Wes Larson?

  Ducks.

• 41:29Jeff Larson?

  Ducks are like a corkscrew.

• 41:31Wes Larson?

  Twisty one, yeah.

• 41:33Mike Smith?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 41:34Jeff Larson?

  Okay, I think we're good.

• 41:35Wes Larson?

  Yeah, cool, cool question.

• 41:38Mike Smith?

  From the people wanna know.

• 41:40Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Jeff Larson?

  From Megan, what's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten?

• 41:43Wes Larson?

  Uh.

• 41:46Jeff Larson?

  When I was in Guatemala, they just like boiled pure fat or cow fat and there was like no meat. And that is like the worst thing I've ever eaten.

• 41:57Mike Smith?

  I had a at a hot pot restaurant in Taiwan, they had little cubes of conchiled pig blood. And they actually weren't bad, but it's still a weird thing to have eaten. So that'll be my answer.

• 42:09Wes Larson?

  I, you know what? I've eaten a lot of weird shit, but like probably the weirdest is just when I was in like.

• 42:14Jeff Larson?

  That's a good answer.

• 42:15Wes Larson?

  Yeah. When I was in third, when I was in third grade, I got into a real bug eating phase and was just eating bugs like all the time. Like hundreds of bugs a day, and that's not an exaggeration.

• 42:28Mike Smith?

  What?

• 42:29Wes Larson?

  And I remember once my.

• 42:30Mike Smith?

  Hundreds?

• 42:31Wes Larson?

  Once my dad, once my dad's like smushed a spider and I licked it off the floor.

• 42:37Mike Smith?

  Are you serious right now?

• 42:39Wes Larson?

  I'm not joking.

• 42:41Mike Smith?

  What the hell is going on around here?

• 42:43Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And then and then my friend who was eating some bugs too, but not nearly the amount as me. He got hives from eating bugs and he had to tell his parents that he'd been eating bugs and there was no more bug eating after that.

• 42:58Mike Smith?

  Not one hundred, hundreds of bugs daily.

• 43:02Wes Larson?

  I ate a lot of bugs.

• 43:03Mike Smith?

  Where are you getting them?

• 43:04Wes Larson?

  I'd catch them.

• 43:05Jeff Larson?

  Imagine in that like dinner. And they're like, Wes, you gotta eat dinner. He's like, oh, I already ate.

• 43:11Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I'm full of bugs.

• 43:12Jeff Larson?

  I went to the park. I went to the park for an hour.

• 43:16Mike Smith?

  Bugs are a good source of protein.

• 43:18Wes Larson?

  They are. We should be eating more bugs. Like, there's nothing wrong with eating bugs. It's just gross when you're eating that one.

• 43:23Jeff Larson?

  You would do pretty good on that show alone.

• 43:26Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I'm always, whenever I watch that show, I'm like, why aren't they just eating bugs all the time?

• 43:31Mike Smith?

  Did you ever see the movie Snowpiercer?

• 43:33Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I love Snowpiercer.

• 43:34Mike Smith?

  Bong Joon Ho's movie. Um, isn't that the red, like, little bricks of stuff? That's made out of bugs, right?

• 43:40Wes Larson?

  It's crotch art, cockroaches. Cockroaches are gross. I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to.

• 43:43Mike Smith?

  Where you draw the line?

• 43:44Wes Larson?

  Probably in third grade, I wouldn't have. I would have eaten a cockroach.

• 43:47Mike Smith?

  You'll lick a spider off of the floor, but.

• 43:49Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I don't know, dude.

• 43:52Jeff Larson?

  All right, and then from Rebecca?

• 43:54Mike Smith?

  That's so weird. Um, like, I feel like we're not focusing on how, like, enough on how weird that is. That's really, really.

• 44:02Wes Larson?

  I know. I was an obsessive kid. I'm sorry.

• 44:05Mike Smith?

  Whatever. All right. I don't, I, I think this podcast might have just ended. This is.

• 44:12Jeff Larson?

  Did you have a favorite?

• 44:14Wes Larson?

  Grasshoppers.

• 44:16Wes Larson?

  I would just, oh, the grossest one I ever ate was a butterfly, because its wings stuck to the roof of my mouth. It was like you, you know, when you eat like cinnamon? And it like makes people cough? That's what a butterfly was like.

• 44:26Jeff Larson?

  You know what's funny is, I remember like, you would always get those suckers from like Mexico that had like a bug in the middle, like a grasshopper or something? And you were like the cool older brother, so I was always like, oh, I gotta get one of those suckers. And then I ate one and it's like, in the end, I just ate like a bug and it sucked. It's just like, why has he been eating so many of these suckers with bugs in them?

• 44:54Wes Larson?

  I don't eat bugs anymore, but it for, it was like a good, it was like a two week obsession where I just ate tons of bugs.

• 45:00Jeff Larson?

  All right, from Rebecca, which would be worse? A hippo with fangs and venom like a cobra? Or a couple of wolves with jaws and teeth like a crocodile?

• 45:12Wes Larson?

  I think the wolves are worse because a hippo, it's like, if you get eaten by, if you get bitten by a hippo, it doesn't matter if it's venomous or not.

• 45:20Mike Smith?

  But by that same logic, the hippo is worse regardless, right?

• 45:23Wes Larson?

  Right.

• 45:24Mike Smith?

  I'd rather have wolves.

• 45:25Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, I could fight off a couple of wolves before one hippo.

• 45:29Wes Larson?

  I think, I think the wolves are a bigger upgrade, though, than the hippo getting venom.

• 45:33Mike Smith?

  True, yeah.

• 45:35Jeff Larson?

  All right, that's it.

• 45:36Wes Larson?

  Those are some good creative questions. Thanks, guys. All right, so our last category for the goonch is, how much do we like this animal? Let's give it some claws.

• 45:45Jeff Larson?

  Wait, did we do pop culture?

• 45:48Wes Larson?

  We, oh, no, we haven't. You're right. All right, so we're gonna do our favorite pop culture catfishes.

• 45:54Jeff Larson?

  I'll go first.

• 45:55Wes Larson?

  All right, go for it, Jeff.

• 45:56Jeff Larson?

  So I bent the rule a little bit and I went with a koi.

• 46:01Wes Larson?

  Okay.

• 46:01Jeff Larson?

  And it's the office when Michael falls in a koi pond at a restaurant.

• 46:06Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah, I remember that one.

• 46:08Jeff Larson?

  Yeah, and then my other one was Magikarp, the Pokemon. And that's more of a carp, I think.

• 46:15Wes Larson?

  Uh huh.

• 46:15Jeff Larson?

  But it like, really sucks when you have a Magikarp as your Pokemon. And they're really bad. And then it just like, for some reason evolves into a like huge sweet dragon.

• 46:27Wes Larson?

  That is cool. I'm just gonna have to take your word on that one.

• 46:29Mike Smith?

  They do have the little barbels. I get, I mean.

• 46:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah, some, some. Yeah, um, Mike, I see that you've got an anime catfish. Is that your favorite catfish?

• 46:40Mike Smith?

  Uh, no. It's a good one, though. It's Sanji. He's, he's braiding the barbels of a catfish. That's pretty funny.

• 46:47Wes Larson?

  Yeah, that is.

• 46:48Mike Smith?

  My favorite catfish is Manta Eo.

• 46:52Mike Smith?

  Getting catfished by that dude when he was in college?

• 46:56Wes Larson?

  Uh, do you want to explain what that happened with that catfishing story?

• 47:00Mike Smith?

  I'm gonna need Jeff's assistance because I'm gonna miss some incredible details.

• 47:05Jeff Larson?

  It's really bizarre.

• 47:06Mike Smith?

  So, a college football player in the United States, he played at Notre Dame, he had a girlfriend, or so he, he thought. There was a huge national news because he was like player of the year, one of the best linebackers we'd ever seen in college.

• 47:20Jeff Larson?

  Well, he was like at the Heisman. And he like made it about his girlfriend.

• 47:25Mike Smith?

  Right.

• 47:26Jeff Larson?

  That just died.

• 47:27Mike Smith?

  That died, he, or so he thought. And then, pretty quickly thereafter, the story unraveled on a national stage. And it was by far the most embarrassing thing, I think, that's ever happened to a collegiate athlete, probably. I can't think of anything that even comes close. Because the girl, he thought was his girlfriend, who he had never met, or even spoken to over the phone. Um, who he made just sound like the biggest deal and most devastating loss he'd ever go through. It was this, like, I can't state strongly enough how big of a news story this was and how tragic it was for this player.

• 48:05Wes Larson?

  I remember.

• 48:05Mike Smith?

  And how much he was celebrated for playing through all this adversity.

• 48:09Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 48:09Mike Smith?

  And then like three days afterwards, it, it turned out, everything was fake.

• 48:13Jeff Larson?

  It's just a guy who was like in too deep and like killed her off.

• 48:17Mike Smith?

  Yeah, tried to end the relationship by dying.

• 48:21Wes Larson?

  He really got it.

• 48:23Jeff Larson?

  Oh, so it's like the most famous time in Manta Taya's life. And he used it as a platform to like talk about his girlfriend that died.

• 48:32Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's really sad.

• 48:34Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Wes Larson?

  Uh, funny enough, I also picked like a catfishing story. Uh, so mine was one that I remember from the news a long time ago, is this nineteen year old woman in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And she lived with her aunt and her aunt like really hated that she was meeting guys on Facebook and like bringing them over to her house. So she forced the niece to like shut down Facebook and like wasn't letting her do that anymore. So the niece blocked her aunt on Facebook so that she could keep doing it. And the aunt to get her back started a fake account on Facebook and the name of the fake account was um.

• 49:15Wes Larson?

  It was, hold up, Trey Top Dog Ellis was the name of the fake account. And it was like this like, you know, tough looking dude and and he added the niece Trey Top Dog Ellis added the niece. And they like formed a relationship. And then after like a long time of them talking and flirting and everything, she asked him to kill her aunt. So he like

• 49:40Jeff Larson?

  What?

• 49:41Wes Larson?

  She the the niece said that she should that Ellis should come over, shoot and kill her aunt. And then also kill her fiance and her cousin and the family dog. So she like

• 49:52Jeff Larson?

  What?

• 49:52Wes Larson?

  She told this guy to do it, but the guy was really her aunt.

• 49:55Jeff Larson?

  Actually the aunt.

• 49:56Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And so the aunt turned her into the police and she went to jail.

• 50:00Jeff Larson?

  Wow.

• 50:00Wes Larson?

  Yeah, it's a crazy one.

• 50:02Jeff Larson?

  Yeah.

• 50:03Wes Larson?

  Um, yeah.

• 50:04Jeff Larson?

  You know, it's crazy is like the dude who does the show Catfish and like made the documentary.

• 50:11Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 50:11Jeff Larson?

  That like got catfished.

• 50:13Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 50:13Mike Smith?

  He did?

• 50:14Wes Larson?

  Yeah.

• 50:14Mike Smith?

  I didn't care about that.

• 50:15Jeff Larson?

  He was like the original dude.

• 50:17Mike Smith?

  Oh.

• 50:18Jeff Larson?

  It was like a documentary about him.

• 50:20Wes Larson?

  Called Catfish.

• 50:21Jeff Larson?

  These people thought your girlfriend doesn't seem real, so he went to meet her and is like some like fifty year old woman. But it's like, kind of like, I don't know, I just feel like people who get catfished are just like very gullible or something like

• 50:38Wes Larson?

  Not always though.

• 50:40Jeff Larson?

  Video chat someone within like a year of dating them.

• 50:43Wes Larson?

  I, yeah, I agree when it goes on for that long, but like I know some people that are pretty smart that have gotten catfished. But I don't know, it just happens.

• 50:51Jeff Larson?

  Just seems like he got super lucky that like he's turned it into a career.

• 50:57Wes Larson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:57Jeff Larson?

  Just like really dumb mistake.

• 51:00Wes Larson?

  Well, he like coined the term catfish. Like that's where it came from.

• 51:04Jeff Larson?

  Why is it catfish?

• 51:05Wes Larson?

  I can't remember. It says it in the documentary.

• 51:08Mike Smith?

  Yeah, a fishing attack is kind of the same thing in the information security world. So I don't know where the cat part comes from, but I'm sure there's some root.

• 51:17Jeff Larson?

  Do you know where the fish?

• 51:18Wes Larson?

  I didn't look it up.

• 51:19Mike Smith?

  Yeah, it's kind of just like fishing. Like they call it fishing for personal information. It's just like a

• 51:25Wes Larson?

  Anyway.

• 51:26Mike Smith?

  A term.

• 51:27Wes Larson?

  Okay, well, let's go ahead and rate the the goonch. Um, how much do we like this animal? How many claws? I'm gonna give the goonch three claws. Not a big goonch fan. I don't really care for them. So it gets three claws for me. Sorry.

• 51:44Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna give it two.

• 51:45Mike Smith?

  Yeah, I think I might go with, I'll go with three, just for the fact that it's super interesting that they can get so huge.

• 51:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah. And its teeth and stuff are cool.

• 51:57Mike Smith?

  Yeah. And also the fact that I didn't know that they exist until today. And so they're just kind of like a curiosity, but tomorrow probably I'll say they're two.

• 52:06Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I've never been a big catfish. Me neither. I just never really liked them, so.

• 52:10Jeff Larson?

  I'm gonna rank it six thousand seven hundred.

• 52:14Mike Smith?

  That's, I don't think that's about where I expected.

• 52:17Wes Larson?

  There might be.

• 52:19Mike Smith?

  I was gonna guess somewhere in the six thousand seven hundred range.

• 52:22Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Um, well, thanks, guys. And yeah, I think thanks to all you patrons for being here. And just so you know, you're the only ones getting episodes right now. We're taking a little break from the main feed. So I bet you're happy, you're patrons.

• 52:38Mike Smith?

  We're happy.

• 52:38Jeff Larson?

  Funny Wes is like, I think I might want like a little break from doing episodes. And then he's like, I'll do the Patreon.

• 52:45Wes Larson?

  Yeah, I know. I'm addicted. I'm addicted to to goonch.

• 52:51Jeff Larson?

  He's addicted to, he can't quit you guys.

• 52:54Wes Larson?

  Yeah. Uh, anyways, thanks guys. Thanks so much for all your encouragement, for everything you guys do for us. We really do appreciate it and happy holidays, huh? Yeah, I agree. Yeah. This is probably coming out on Christmas Eve, so if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas. If not, happy whatever else. All right. See you guys. Bye.

• 53:15Jeff Larson?

  See ya.