Being A Female Founder In The US Is Better Than Australia!

Michelle Battersby has built a career around creating products that improve the lives of women. From launching Bumble in Australia, to building and selling her own tech company to Fanfix, and now becoming President of the largest women’s network for moms, all while 30 weeks pregnant, Michelle has consistently disproven the 86% of women who believe motherhood will jeopardize their career. Raised in a hyper-competitive household with Olympian parents, Michelle reflects on how her identity has been shaped by ambition and challenged by cultural expectations, tall poppy syndrome, and motherhood, while building apps for women, by women. Plus, Michelle brings her 7 week old baby, Bobby, on the podcast to live breastfeed to prove that yes, women really can do it all. Michelle discusses: Tall Poppy Syndrome & Female Visibility: How cultural discomfort with ambitious women shows up as judgement, self-policing, and pressure to stay small - especially in Australia. Motherhood, Career & the Myth of ‘Having It All’: What pregnancy and postpartum taught Michelle about leadership, resilience, and why motherhood doesn’t weaken ambition - it sharpens it. Women’s Bodies, Confidence & Control: Why society sexualises women’s bodies but shames their biology - and why reclaiming ownership is an act of leadership. ⸻ Timestamps (00:00:00) Intro (00:02:13) Finding My Purpose Building for Women (00:04:19) Growing Up with Olympian Parents (00:06:06) How I Changed My Relationship with Failure (00:07:48) The Power of Naivety at Bumble (00:10:11) Building a Personal Brand Before You’re Ready (00:14:53) Tall Poppy Syndrome Explained (00:18:16) Did Moving to the US Change Me? (00:19:21) Being a Woman in Australia vs the US (00:20:32) Matrescence: Losing Yourself After Birth (00:26:17) BeeHiiv Ad[00:27:38] Why I Built a Business for Women (00:30:48) Sunroom: Pushing Boundaries Online (00:33:07) Posting My Body and Being Respected (00:34:38) Breastfeeding Live on a Podcast (00:37:07) The Fear of Pressing Upload (00:38:40) Investor Pushback? (00:39:28) Why Breastfeeding Is Still Shamed (00:40:49) Disclosing Pregnancy During Interviews (00:43:42) 3 Leadership Lessons from Motherhood (00:45:14) Pregnancy Didn’t Kill My Ambition (00:47:49) I Thought Being a Mum Would Ruin My Career (00:50:27) You Can’t Achieve with an Incompetent Partner (00:53:28) Man's Role In First 1000 Days of Parenting (00:56:46) How Motherhood Makes You Better at Work (01:01:20) Going From Founder to Employee (01:09:18) How Can Someone Be Like You? Final Advice (01:12:11) Quick Fire Questions Sponsored by: Beehiiv - Use code HSR30 for 30% off Link: https://www.beehiiv.com/hsr?utm_campaign=hsr-2026-Partnership&utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=hsr&utm_term=2025-12-24 ⸻ Hot Smart Rich: Join 250,000+ angels and subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter: https://hotsmartrich.com/subscribe Hot Smart Rich Money Mindset: https://shorturl.at/pJWLc Merch: https://hotsmartrich.shop/ YouTube: https://shorturl.at/IXXFZ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hotsmartrich Maggie Sellers Reum: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellersreum/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellersreum LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sellersmaggie/ Locker: https://www.wantlocker.com/users/maggiesellers ShopMy: https://shopmy.us/maggiesellers Amazon Storefront: https://www.amazon.com/shop/maggiesellers ⸻ Follow Michelle Battersby: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michellebattersby/ ⸻ Hot Smart Rich is your place to hear unfiltered conversations with the people shaping the future of culture, creators, startups and community. Hosted by Maggie Sellers Reum, investor and media powerhouse, and guests breaking the mold, you’ll get the real deal as it relates to navigating the startup fast lane, leveling up your life or becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self. New episodes weekly on Wednesdays. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board. But then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 0:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

• 1:04Speaker 01

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• 1:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Michelle Battersey, are you ready to get hot smart rich?

• 1:35Speaker 02

  I'm so ready.

• 1:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I'm so happy that you're here.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  My purpose is to build products that better the lives of women.

• 1:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  The company that you founded after Bumble was around women's bodies and women's content.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  You can post photos of your boobs on the internet and still be respected. Just because it's hard doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. We raised $7 million, over three rounds. I think one of the most amazing things about selling the company is in...

• 2:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You feared pregnancy would destroy your ambition and slow down your career. What would you say to the same Michelle who wrote that?

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Motherhood clarified my ambition. I actually ran a poll on my Instagram and I asked, "Do you feel like having a baby would jeopardize your career?" And 86% of people said yes. Just knowing that so many other women were fearing becoming a mom and felt like they had to choose career or motherhood, I felt like I had to be very loud about how I was navigating that.

• 2:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  See, we have a new little cute addition into the room. We think the first baby to ever breastfeed live on a podcast.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 2:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Talk to me a little bit about what it took for you to go from being that founder, entrepreneur, CEO, to now going and being an employee of a company.

• 2:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

• 3:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Michelle Battersby, are you ready to get hot, smart, rich?

• 3:10Speaker 02

  I'm so ready.

• 3:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I'm so happy that you're here.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  So happy to be here.

• 3:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I feel like I'm gonna try to not giggle as much. So I'm gonna start with a question I've been actually wanting to ask you since we've been friends.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Because I get the sense that you're very much like me and you've very much wrapped your identity and who you are into what you have done, which is really, really, really impressive. You were the first person to launch Bumble in Australia. You're one of the top 10 employees at Bumble worldwide. You sold your first company to Fanfic. And most recently, you've become a president, the president of Peanut at 30 weeks pregnant. But I want to start with uncovering the mission that you're on, on a human level. Like, what is Michelle's purpose in this world?

• 3:54Speaker 02

  My purpose is to build products that better the lives of women. I didn't always know that that was my purpose. I, like many women, was kind of floating through my career, doing what I thought I was meant to do. You know, go to uni, get into a grad program, work in corporate, work my way up the corporate ladder. I remember sitting at my desk when I was about twenty five, wondering why people around me cared more about what they were doing than I did. And that feeling really bothered me. And it was probably the first time I realised, okay, I'm not actually passionate about this. This isn't maybe aligned with my values.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  And I really wanted to work out what my purpose actually was, what my passion actually was. And I think that initial discomfort led me on a bit of a journey. I think there's a lot of power in owning that you're not enjoying what you're doing and that maybe you're not that passionate about it. But it can also be really unsettling because once you've admitted it to yourself, you've got to figure it out. And I had no idea where to look or what kind of career I wanted. And I ended up kind of, I guess by a series of somewhat fortunate events, falling into this job at Bumble, which we can get into. But that was the first job where I just fucking lived and breathed it. I was obsessed.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  I was obsessed with what Bumble stood for, with women making the first move. And I felt personally aligned with it. Like, I want to go out and make the first move in my own life. I want to put myself forward for the promotion, for the pay rise. I want to do scary things. And so it was that job that really just cemented for me. My purpose in life is to help other women. And the way I do that is by working on products specifically built for their needs and products that are providing solutions to their everyday problems.

• 5:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can you describe your childhood a little bit for me of like, why women? Why is that so important to you?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  I think it comes from, I'm the eldest of three girls. So I've got two younger sisters and I probably have that eldest daughter complex. Are you the oldest?

• 6:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, I'm the youngest.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Okay, I think when you're the eldest daughter, there is quite a lot of responsibility put on you, not.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Uh maliciously by your parents at all. I think it's, I think it's just natural. I've always felt like I need to set a good example for my younger sisters and I need to help them in their struggles. I need to live my life in a way that they are like proud to see and live my life in a way that makes them feel like they could do anything. And so it probably comes back to that. But I also grew up in an incredibly competitive household. So I always get a bit scared talking about this because I don't want people to think my parents put pressure on me, but my parents were both elite athletes. My dad went to the Olympics. My mum was a world champion. When you grow up with parents, like my dad has an Olympic medal.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Growing up and seeing that in your house, it kind of tells you you can do big things. Like it's amazing from that perspective. You feel like these big goals are really accessible and really achievable because it's right in front of your face. So I had naturally a very competitive spirit from the moment I knew how to compete, I guess. And I've kind of funneled that competitive nature into different things throughout my life. And it's very much funneled into career currently.

• 7:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love the language that you use where you're like, I don't want to say my parents put pressure on me. Is that pressure you put on yourself?

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's this weird thing. I mean, I've experienced on such a small scale, but it's affected who I am so deeply. So I can't imagine how it is for people who actually have superstar parents. But I felt like because my parents were so good at sport, I needed to be that good as well. And it was almost embarrassing if I didn't win. Not embarrassing because they made me feel like it was, you know, win, win or nothing. I just felt like at school, people would say, you know, that's the one with Olympian parents, you know? And so I felt like I needed to be the best.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  And so I was very into sport, like got a scholarship to uni for rowing. Got extra marks on in the HSC, which is our year twelve. Assessment because of rowing, things like that. And I I loved it. Like, I think I learnt a lot from that first era of my life of being quite competitive at sport. It teaches you discipline, how to go through hard things. Rowing was the sport and it's not necessarily fun. You wake up at four fifty five every day. I used to train 12 times a week. But it's those sorts of things that have made me who I am today. And I'm very grateful for that experience, but I've definitely had to learn how to cope with failure.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  As I've taken the career that I that I have, and it's really not about winning or losing. It's about what you learn along the way. And there's actually no such thing as failure. I've really changed my belief system recently. I used to view success as very black and white. And it's not at all.

• 9:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is brave a word you would have used to describe yourself when you were that young twenty year olds getting a job as one of the first employees at Bumble?

• 9:29Speaker 02

  No, I would say naive.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  You know, they say knowledge is power, but I believe that naivety is actually power. And when I was twenty five and I took that first job at Bumble, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. And I think if I'd known, I would have been too scared. I I wouldn't have done it. I wouldn't have thought I was capable of doing that. I ended up stepping into this job and I had to evolve as the company grew and as the role grew. And I ended up basically becoming the face of Bumble in Australia. And I had to speak on all these panels and I had to do all this press and I would go on live TV. And that stuff was truly terrifying.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  And if someone had shown me on a piece of paper, this is what your job is actually going to entail at the time I took it. I would have said, you've got the wrong girl. Naivety is what led me to take that first step. Then it was actually amazing leadership at Bumble that I was exposed to. It was working with the the founder, Whitney Wolfe-Hard, and her really giving me free rein and autonomy. And being able to learn from the first, at the time I started, there were four, four or five women at Bumble in Austin. And Bumble's already successful in the US. It was showing great organic uptake in Australia and that's why they wanted to start a team there.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  And so I could work really closely with these four women, including the founder, and they could tell me exactly how they'd done it in the US. And I basically got the playbook and I just had to apply it to an Australian market. And even though I had no marketing experience, I was the demographic, I was the user that they were trying to attract. And so I just thought about, okay, where are the bars I want to go, go to? What are the brands I love? Who are the people I love? What are the calendar moments that get me and my friends out of the house? And that's how Bumble really started. And so it was that experience and being trusted that I think built my confidence.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  And that gave me the balls, for lack of a better word, to then start my own company and to, yeah, be braver, I suppose.

• 11:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Was it intentional to build your personal brand?

• 11:45Speaker 02

  No, it was very scary, actually. I remember the first time I ever posted about Bumble on Instagram, I felt disgusting. I was like.

• 11:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Because of why?

• 11:58Speaker 02

  I just felt like, oh my God, I've got, you know, probably 600 followers that are all my friends. And now I've got this job at Bumble and I need to start talking about it on Instagram. And do I just look like some glammed up promo girl? Am I, am I just like a promo girl in disguise? I don't know. I was really worried about the judgment and I felt really icky. And I think, I guess it's also is good advice for anyone with that first step. It does feel icky to start doing that. I think it is human nature to feel a bit cringe, to put yourself out there in that way. That is quite a universal feeling.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  One thing I love, a reframe for that, if anyone is feeling icked out by self-promoting, is Adam Grant.

• 12:45Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  Yes, he has this reframe and it's, don't think of it as self-promotion, think of it as idea promotion. So it's not just you putting your face out there. It's actually like, hey, I'm working on this product and I think. It'll benefit you because of X, Y, Z. Tell me what you think. Hey, I've been working in this space and I've come up with this unique insight. Here it is. And I think that reframe of idea promotion versus self-promotion is a very helpful way to think about building your personal brand in a way that doesn't ick, ick you out. But that building of a personal brand has ended up being almost everything for me in these scarier career moves.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Bumble is what forced me to begin. It was like I, I was forced to be uncomfortable and to put myself out there like that. And I'm grateful for that nudge. And then it was my Instagram that led to me talking about the fact I was founding a company and I was going to start raising capital. And I had no idea, but some investors were following me and people replied to my stories saying, can I invest? And that led to me going out and doing the first pitches and us getting some of our first angel checks. And I think building in public, everyone says it, it is so important. And I think some people feel scared to build in public because they're like, what if someone steals my idea? If someone steals your idea, it wasn't that defensible in the first place.

• 14:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Totally.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  And it was probably going to happen sooner or later. But I think there's a difference between building in, in public and sharing your secret sauce. You know, you don't want to go out there straight away and tell the world what your secret is. You wanna divvy around that and like validate all the things that you, you know, have in the back of your mind. So I think you've got to be strategic about it, but it's so, so powerful, especially in today's world from like an opportunities perspective. Um, but I also think it's a bit of an X factor. Like even if you're not a founder, it's an, it's an X factor. I think when you go for corporate jobs, like are you writing Substacks on your industry? Do you have a bit of a footprint on LinkedIn? Are you sharing your work?

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Instagram feels like LinkedIn these days.

• 15:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Totally.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  It really, and LinkedIn, I don't know what that feels like.

• 15:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You're not on there. What would you, how would you describe the evolution of your personal brand from Bumble to today?

• 15:14Speaker 02

  Oh, it's so different. Bumble came about in this interesting time where, you know, it was like the era of the flat lays. And no one was really talking about their job in this fun, kind of glamorous way just yet. And we had access to so much money at Bumble. So we could do amazing things. And we had a really young team. It was honestly like a bunch of 25 year old women, throwing the funnest events, working with incredible people, speaking to women in a way they wanted to be spoken to. You know, there weren't that many women founded tech companies at that time. And I think it's very obvious when a product has been founded by a man.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  So it was very cool to have this bunch of women just be allowed to say all the things that were on women's minds. And so we made looking at Bumble look fucking cool. And, and it was. And that's kind of what my personal brand was about at that time, I guess. Looking, yeah, just like living and breathing the brand and getting our mission out there. Whereas now my personal brand probably has much more of me in it. Like the essence of who I actually am.

• 16:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  We have a lot of Australian listeners, so shout out to the HSR Angels in Australia. One of the things that I often hear from our Australian angels is this tall poppy syndrome.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I think it exists anywhere in the world, but it seems to be very concentrated for women, especially in Australia. For someone that's listening to this that doesn't know what that is, can you describe what tall poppy syndrome is in Australia?

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, so tall poppy syndrome is a cultural phenomenon. And really what it means is if you had a field of poppies and one was to stand out, you would chop it down. And so in Australia, there is this sense that you don't want to stand out. You don't want to rise above the pack. And once we view someone as being quite successful. We will tear them down. It happens in other countries as well, smaller countries. And Australia has a population of, I think it's 26 million. To compare that to America, I think there's 22 million people that live in Texas. So it is much smaller. And so a lot of people operate with a scarcity mindset as opposed to an abundance mindset.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  So they think if that person is out there achieving this, that's one less spot for me. And so that is where it stems from. And it definitely does get built into you. You're Canadian.

• 17:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  I think, I think Canada has similar things where I think it's what leads to Australians being quite self-deprecating. It's what leads to when you speak about what you've done. Even like me speaking about the rowing stuff just then, it actually makes me feel a bit ick. And I'm kind of wincing internally because I'm like, do I sound like a fucking wanker talking about that? And like, you know, these, these sorts.

• 18:05Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why? Because you feel like you don't want the attention on you?

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Is it arrogant?

• 18:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But that's what I was gonna say is so interesting, like learning about the household that you grew up in, right? Because you have two elite athletes, one of which won an Olympic medal, that are obviously extremely competitive, like were the best in their country. What was your dad's sport?

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Rowing.

• 18:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Rowing?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Whoa, pressure. So to grow up in a hyper-competitive household that was like seemingly okay to be the very best, and then live in this cultural space where you don't want to take up too much space and too much attention? Like, do you feel that you carry those two sides with you today?

• 18:39Speaker 02

  I do. Even coming into this interview today, my boss, Michelle, was like, don't, like, don't do the Australian thing. Remember that it's okay to be proud of what you've done and the things that you've achieved are amazing. And you should speak about them with pride. Like, you don't have to shrink yourself down. Australians just tend to root more for the underdog. And then once you're successful, things can turn. But there's a lot of other things that kind of contribute to that mentality as well. Like, it's governments, it's, it's systems. Like, there was this article that was recently written and it was titled Make Australia Ambitious Again.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  And I just really resonated, like, a lot of Australians do leave to go overseas because it can be easier to, to start a business, to raise capital, to exist in an environment where more people rally around you. And. That is sad because there is also so much opportunity in Australia. Such a brilliant startup ecosystem. You've got companies like Canva and Atlassian that have come out of Australia. But you have to be comfortable with challenging the status quo in Australia, I think.

• 19:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you comfortable doing that now?

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Did it take you moving to the US to do that?

• 19:59Speaker 02

  It actually took me starting my own company. I felt running my own company was quite a freeing experience and it allowed me to really step into myself more and form my own opinions on things. I think running your own company, being entrepreneurial, you have to be very curious. You have to have that student mindset and you have to be, whenever you feel something, you feel like an intuitive tug and you're building a product. You need to to challenge that and validate it, you know? And I think that's a very good way to operate just through life is, you know, you have an opinion, you have a judgment. Where has that stemmed from?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  Is it an original thought or is it something that society has made you feel? I think Sunroom, the chapter of my career that was my own company, made me quite comfortable challenging the status quo. And I was in America for that.

• 20:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is the difference between being a woman in Australia and being a woman in the US?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  Fuck, I was gonna get political. There are some big, there are some big political differences. That's what's a bit sad in a way because I have quite a love hate relationship with America. There's a lot about America that I really don't like and that I really don't agree with. And a lot of it is on the political side of things and that things are really regressing for women's rights in particular. I don't love that, obviously, to put it lightly, very lightly. But there isn't a ceiling and it feels like anything is possible here. And there's just this buzz in LA in particular where it feels quite euphoric. And it feels like culture is being created right at your fingertips.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  It's like right there, which it doesn't quite feel like that in in Australia. I think there, Australia is like, trumps America in so many ways.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Government is kinder to people, way better legislative protections for women, for employees in particular, safe, beautiful. But because it is small, there is more of a ceiling.

• 22:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Michelle, this might be the hardest question I'm gonna ask you all day.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 22:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why do you think I asked you here today?

• 22:10Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 22:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Don't shrink.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  I know, I'm like, ooh. Maybe because of how I represent career and motherhood online. Authenticity. I like just keep going, talking, saying words about myself. I'm real. I don't know, tell me, make me stop.

• 22:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I think because you stand for everything that HSR is, like from afar. And I've gotten to know you as a person, as a mentor, as someone that I trust very deeply and that has a really good heart. I think you've done so many incredible things in your career. You've taken big bets, you've left your home, you've left your family, you've had to miss your sister's wedding for priorities in your life. You've had a baby, you've had two babies, you had a partner that was a, is a professional athlete, living away from you while you were pregnant. There's a million ways I could take that, that question and that answer. I think you embody everything that it takes to live a really brave life. You've been very brave with your decisions.

• 23:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And I'm just wondering, like, from everything we've talked about, it sounded like you were a little nervous to come to this interview.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 23:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why?

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a, it's a good question. Actually, I was thinking about this and I think a part of it does come back to the stage of life I'm in right now. I'm seven weeks postpartum and when you have a baby and you're in this postpartum period, which seven weeks is still really fresh, it is quite a vulnerable moment. And even though I'm in it for the second time around, which I'm finding much easier than the first time, you still have a bit of a identity crisis. I think mothers and motherhood can often be like silenced and diminished. And so in this moment, you know, for the past seven weeks, I haven't really spoken to adults.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  I've been in my room breastfeeding my newborn and, you know, running off four to six hours broken sleep every night. And I think that. That can often make you feel, am I good enough for this? It's that horrible line of, am I, I'm, I'm just a mum. And, and I, and I hate that because I think motherhood is the hardest job in the world, one of the most ambitious pursuits. And it's the most important job in the world. It really is. It's, it's raising life. So I hate that so much in society has made motherhood seem like it's, you know,

• 24:47Speaker 02

  less challenging, less worthy. Caregiving is generally looked at as lower status. And I just think all those

• 24:56Speaker 02

  ah stereotypes can kind of compound on you when you're in that postpartum period. And it can really rattle your confidence a little bit. And so I was scared coming into this because I was in that mindset of maybe feeling a bit weak. But it's so ridiculous that weak is maybe how I feel in this moment because it's actually the most powerful thing you can really do. And what I'm doing is so important. But there's just a lot of complex thoughts that go on when you're postpartum. Have you heard the word matressence? No. Basically, you know adolescence. Yeah. So everyone knows what adolescence is.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  And, you know, it's when we go from being a child into a young adult. And we're moody and we're confused. And the whole world knows about adolescence. But when you become a mum, you actually go through that again. And it's called matressence. And I had never heard that word before I first became a mum. And now that I'm aware of what matressence is, like, the reason why I was scared is because I'm currently going through matressence. To boil the towel. Yeah, to just like summarize it in one, in one sentence. And it's crazy to me that like, you're a smart woman and you've not heard what matressence is. And neither had I. And I think if. The world was more aware of matressence.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  It would make postpartum and becoming a mum make much more sense because it talks about all the psychological, social and physical change that you go through when you become a mum. And there's so much going on in your, in your brain at, at this moment. Like, I'm currently wired to just be thinking about my infant, which is how it really should be. And so I've pulled myself out of my little matressence hole for a second to, to do this. And you do have to remind yourself who, who you are. Postpartum is a very vulnerable period, and I think it's really important to surround yourself with people you feel comfortable with, people that remind you, like my boss

• 27:05Speaker 02

  did, coming into this, like, you don't need to shrink yourself, fix your nail, go get your hair done, you're a fucking badass, you can do this. There's an amazing book about this called Matressence, and it talks about the fact that, you know, we're kind of taught to, to feel like once we're a mum, maybe we're less than capable. And this, you know, there's a lot around this space that I've had to work through. Motherhood isn't a setback. It is a superpower and it's led to me doing the most amazing things I've ever done in my career. But it took a lot of challenging the status quo for me to really get comfortable with that and to back myself and to keep making like brave decisions, I suppose.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 28:20Speaker 03

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• 28:49Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 29:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You want a place in 2026 where you don't have to worry about the algorithm or the charts, but you still want a profitable place to make money off of your brain and thoughts? Then we need to talk about Beehive. It's a platform I've been using since 2023 that lets you start a newsletter, grow your audience, and make money through a native ad network, paid subscriptions, and digital products, all with a zero take on earnings. And that's where I went to turn my silly little TikToks into the beginning of my media empire. Beehive is now a sponsor of Hot Smart Rich. What started as a simple way to share my ideas became the place where I am my most vulnerable with my community, all of you, which combined with Beehive's built-in growth

• 30:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  tools like boosts, recommendations, and referrals, has helped me grow 100% year over year, all while staying insanely engaged and connected to my angels. It's free to start, has preset templates, and an AI website builder to get your newsletter and website up and running so fast. If you want to give it a try, head to Beehive dot com slash HSR for 30% off your first three months. But make sure you enter the code HSR30 at checkout. That's B-E-E-H-I-I-V dot com slash HSR with code HSR30. You made a very... Conscious decision to always create and market products that involve women.

• 30:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But the company that you founded after Bumble was around women's bodies and women's content.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Sunroom is a company that I co-founded and it was a content monetization platform. So we really wanted to sit in the space between OnlyFans and Instagram. We felt like many more creators could be making money from their content, but it didn't feel like the right products existed for them. And we went through a lot of validating before we dove headfirst into that. We surveyed every influencer I knew in Australia. I basically surveyed and asked them, have you thought about using OnlyFans? Have you thought about putting your content behind a paywall? And this was in 2020, so the rise of OnlyFans, people were in lockdown. It was booming. Beyonce was talking about it in a song.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  And I was very surprised when all these creators are saying, yes, I have thought about using OnlyFans, but I'm worried about how it would affect my personal brand. That bothered me, you know, that more and more women could be making more money, but this stigma is holding them back from going on OnlyFans. I want to do something about that. And so my co-founder, she, Lucy Mort is her name. She was one of the first employees at Hinge and she actually designed the Hinge product. So we came from these similar backgrounds and we both wanted to keep having these big careers. And so we both moved to LA. We raised venture capital. We raised $7 million over three rounds. And we built this product that ended up paying out millions of dollars to the women on it.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  And earlier this year, we sold it to Fanfic, which are very similar to us, but just winning. They were just winning. It kind of felt like if you can't beat them, join them.

• 32:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  And so we worked on this acquisition for quite some time, where basically it was like the back end of Sunroom ended up almost being copied and pasted onto Fanfic. So all of our creators could continue to make money on their platform. But we really, we ended up running a full M and A process, speaking to every single one of our competitors, speaking to social networks, speaking to creator agencies. And we were ultimately looking for.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Where is a place our creators can go and actually thrive even more than they've been thriving on Sunroom? And Fanfic had just built out a feature set that was more sophisticated than ours in certain ways. And in ways that kind of automated that process for creators, because these platforms can be pretty hands on. It's been cool actually to see some of our creators. One of the things we're really curious about is will our creators go there and actually make more money? And I was just looking at a creator the other day who went from making 20 grand a month on Sunroom to making 50 grand a month on Fanfic. So that's been really great to see, okay, we picked a product that actually does have even more power than ours to unlock financial opportunities for women.

• 33:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So the content on Sunroom, OnlyFans meets Instagram. So what type of content was allowed on the platform?

• 33:52Speaker 02

  So what was different about Sunroom is that we actually created an app. So most of the products in this space aren't apps, like Fanfic isn't an app, OnlyFans isn't an app. We wanted to create an app because we wanted to make it easier for creators to actually talk to their audience. Upload content on the go for people to get push notifications, all of that stuff. Once you create an app, you are bound by Apple's content guidelines. So Apple don't allow any explicit, like overtly sexual content on their products. Our differentiator when it came to Instagram was we were really sick of women's bodies being moderated in a way that wasn't fair. So like your plus size, you show too much skin, your content's removed. You're black, your content's removed. You're talking about childbirth, your content's removed.

• 34:38Speaker 02

  You show a bit of side boob, your content's removed. And it's automated. So with Sunroom, we moderated with real humans. So we could actually allow women to show up and speak more openly about women's issues. So there was a lot of education around like sex positive topics, relationships, periods, birth, things that are censored on.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Instagram and we also allowed women's nipples. So we didn't view, it was kind of like free the nip built into a product. But that's as far as you could take it. It couldn't be sexual in nature, but a woman just standing topless by a lake. No worries. We would allow that. And so it was sensual, but it wasn't hard hardcore at all. And that's what our users loved. They wanted to find a place that allowed them to express themselves more freely than they were on Instagram. There are so many creators living in fear on Instagram that one next post will lead to them losing their audience.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  Like we had many creators that had lost Instagram accounts at like 50,000 followers because they'd spoken too openly about childbirth. Or because they'd spoken, spoken too openly about breastfeeding or boobs. So we wanted to solve that problem.

• 36:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So with the content, the topless content on Sunroom, it's not just breastfeeding. It's also just for creators that want to monetize their breasts.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Talk to me a little bit about that.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I know what you want me to talk about.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  So I got this DM once from this guy. I'd posted a bikini pic on Instagram and the DM said something like, I can't remember it exactly, but it was, you're an exec. Do you think you should be doing, you know, do you think you should be posting pics like this? And it just really grinded my gears because I think, again, it comes back to people wanting women to be one dimensional. When, where, where many things, and this is what Hot Smart Rich is about. Like you can be sexy until we still be taken seriously. You can be hot, smart and rich. You can post photos of your boobs on the internet and still be respected. That is what I. Loved about Sunroom and that's what I really wanted to embrace myself.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  And so one of the things about Sunroom was we actually built anti screenshot technology and we patented it. So you might have been on Netflix or Hulu or something and you've tried to screen record and it it won't let you, it'll show you a black screen. We applied that kind of technology on Sunroom and it was the first time that had ever been done to consumer uploaded content. And I always, and my co-founder, we always felt like, you know what, if women are going to open up more on our product and be vulnerable about all aspects of their life, as well as charge a premium for that, we cannot have this content being pirated. Like, that's one of the biggest issues with a lot of the other products is that.

• 37:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do we have the baby? Right here.

• 37:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So for some context, you see we have a new little cute addition into the room, Mr. Bobby. He is, we think, the first baby to ever breastfeed live on a podcast.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 37:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Which is crazy. So ChatGPT told me, um, seven weeks postpartum, we wanted to normalize the conversation of women doing it all. So we wanted to have him join us.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  We need more babies in boardrooms and podcast studios. So he is us taking a step towards that. But he also doesn't take a bottle. So we have no choice.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  He must be with me at all times. Anyway, okay. And it's ironic that we're talking about me posting my boobs on the internet as I now breastfeed him. But I guess that's how I how I feel, you know, it's women's breasts have been sexualized when this is actually what they're meant for. They grow life, you know? And so I don't think women should be penalized for having boobs. And I think we should be able to embrace our sensuality and our sexuality. And I felt like if I was founding a product where women were going to open up more about themselves and share more of themselves, I needed to feel comfortable doing that, too. I needed to back my own product, back our security measures, back our anti screenshot

• 38:58Speaker 02

  technology. And it was an amazing moment because I made about seven grand that month.

• 39:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  From your boobs.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  On Sunroom, from my boobs, which was more than I was paying myself a month at the time. And.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  There, nothing changed. You know, I was still respected. No one looked at me any differently to my, to my knowledge, not to how wide a, wide a team felt. But I think I, I'm sitting here in a privileged position saying that, you know what I mean? Like, that might not be the same for all women, but that's also what I wanna help change. And so I think we need more people speaking about this and more people not being afraid to embrace every side of themselves. And I think that's what hot smart rich literally does. Like, uh, women have been told you can't be hot, smart and rich. Pick one, pick Elaine. Oh, no, she, she's so hot. Like, she must be dumb.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  And then you realize they're not dumb. There, I guess historically has been like jealousy and society has taught you that, yeah, you can't be many things all at once. So it, I guess, was a bit of hot, smart, rich of me to have, to have done.

• 40:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Very hot, smart, rich. Be very brave of you, which is, I think, the reason I brought you on. Walk me back to the moment that you first pressed upload. Like, how did you feel? What were you worried about?

• 40:17Speaker 02

  I actually don't think I felt that scared in the moment because I'd also been influenced by our creators. I'd been watching how our creators were showing up on our own product and how free they were and how liberated they were and how confident they were. So I was also made to feel, feel comfortable by kind of watching their lead. And I'd never really immersed myself amongst creators like that, that was so wild and free in the past. So it was cool to witness a different group of women. So, yeah, it was like, I, I guess, again, my opinions of things comes back to always being open minded and kind of asking where

• 41:01Speaker 02

  judgment may stem from or why you may feel a certain way. And I, yeah, I was made to feel comfortable by them and our, and our product. And now it comes back to that famous mora line from, um, Shits Creek where she's like, take a thousand nude photos, you know, and you really should before you become a mom because your boobs can really change. So I'm very happy that I posted them on the internet and I'm very happy that I made money off them whilst they looked a certain way. And I have a great bank of content to look back on if I need to remind myself, which I don't really want to, of what my body looked like before.

• 41:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Was there any investor pushback?

• 41:45Speaker 02

  No, because that's what they loved about our product and our mission and the fact that we were women creating this in a certain niche. This is a good question because it also comes back to when I first became a mom, I was worried maybe investors would judge me, maybe they would, they would think I'm less capable. But I think when you have a very strong mission, you attract investors that are aligned with that. It automatically weeds out the ones that would have a problem with it. When, I, I think that's what having a strong mission does. It protects your brand from certain things. So, yeah, we had incredible investors that, yeah, loved, loved that about us and the product.

• 42:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why do you think society has normalized sexualizing women's bodies to the extent that we have, but we still shame the most biological process that they were actually made to do, which is breastfeeding?

• 42:44Speaker 02

  There's this book called Erotic Capital, and it actually talks about the fact that if women were celebrated and allowed to embrace every single part of their sensuality and sexuality, we would just trump men in all aspects of life because men are naturally more, I guess, like motivated by women's bodies in, in that kind of a way. And so that's why sex work and things like that have been so heavily stigmatized to limit us and restrict us. And I think that you can then feel that once you're in a corporate environment as well. Like you might feel like you need to dress yourself down or, again, embrace every part of yourself.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  So I think it ultimately just comes back to the patriarchy, unfortunately. But I think that, again, like podcasts like this, lines like Hot, Smart, Rich, seeing women out there being many things all at once and not being afraid to shy away from every part of themselves helps to normalize that because, yeah, it's, it just exists to restrict us, I think.

• 43:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So you sold your company to Fanfic, you're 30 weeks pregnant, and you announce that you're now the president of Peanut.

• 43:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Michelle, the founder of Peanut, she had come to you, you had reached out to her to be a consultant.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:05Maggie Sellers Reum?

  When did you disclose to her that you were actually pregnant in the process of interviewing?

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the very first conversation that we had, I was about nine or 10 weeks pregnant. And I was having some complications. So I didn't actually know, I didn't know a hundred percent if it was gonna work out. And so I remember sitting there feeling like, oh, I desperately wanna tell her. But I just don't know if I should bring this up in this moment. And then I thought very hard about it because I used to give the advice to women that you should wait until you have a contract in your hand before disclosing that you're pregnant, if you are going through an interview process. And so I thought hard about that and reached the conclusion that if I held on to that,

• 44:53Speaker 02

  I was perpetrating the stigmas that being pregnant makes me less competent or less desirable, which I know isn't a reality. So again, it's about figuring out, like, why do you feel like you should hold on to this within this moment? And so the next conversation I had with her, I told her. And I also felt like, of course, I'm working for a femtech company. So we should be practicing what we preach, but I think it's important to see representation, to normalize it everywhere. But I also felt like, if you're pregnant and going through an interview process, you also wanna make sure that you are not gonna end up in an environment that doesn't respect parenthood and isn't gonna look after you once you're in the door.

• 45:37Speaker 02

  And I think that's what you might end up discovering if you do hold on to it. So it's better to be upfront and figure it out whilst you're going through the process because companies that don't respect parenthood and do discriminate don't deserve brilliant women. So those are kind of the things I was thinking about when I was going through that process. And when I told Michelle, she just responded in the most textbook perfect way ever, which is kind of what I knew would happen, but it just reinforced.

• 46:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What'd she say?

• 46:10Speaker 02

  She said, this is absolutely makes you even more perfect for the role. This is kismet is the word she used and was just really supportive the the whole way through. And, you know, I stepped into the role, worked for two months and then I'm taking paid leave right now. And I feel very grateful to to have this moment, to have been able to secure what I would call is my dream job at thirty weeks pregnant, but then also to be celebrated for being pregnant and being a mum along the way, like pregnancies should be celebrated and supported.

• 46:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you think that that works to hire any role at any company at any life stage, though?

• 46:49Speaker 02

  Yes, and it's because stepping into this role at thirty weeks pregnant, it clarified three leadership lessons for me and they go beyond just the femtech space. The first one is that motherhood is an accelerator. It teaches you resilience, empathy, compassion, ruthless prioritization. I think organizations need to stop asking how to accommodate mothers and ask, how can we learn from others? Because those qualities are so important for modern day leadership. So that's the first, the first thing. The second thing is that my lived experience is not separate to to my work. It actually informs it. It informs my strategy.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  And as women, it's incredibly obvious, as I said before, when a product has been built by men for women. So you need that lived experience to show up. It just deepens the product. It deepens your ability to gather supporters, not just users. And the third thing, we need representation. So we need to see motherhood at the table and in leadership positions. Otherwise, we will continue to show women that there's a false choice between career and motherhood when there isn't. And I think those three leadership lessons should be applied to any business anywhere.

• 48:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You have been reported saying that you feared pregnancy would destroy your ambition and slow down your career. What would you say to the same Michelle who wrote that?

• 48:26Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 49:25Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Motherhood clarified my ambition. It channeled it in a way that it had never been channeled before. Motherhood does crack you open, and it does change you because of matressence. It's impossible to go through this and not change. You should change. That's like saying you're not going to change through adolescence. You know, change is inevitable. Change is the one guarantee you will get from motherhood. But that used to scare me if I heard someone say that. If I, if I had heard someone say to me, you were going to change tremendously through motherhood. I used to think change equaled loss. It equaled less than.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  It equaled less ambitious, less successful, less of a gun. It doesn't at all. The new version of you that awaits on the other side of motherhood is a version 10 times more powerful than the version of you before. You just need to not be scared to embrace her. Like she's waiting, she's gonna fucking do great things for you. Don't be scared of her. And I think it took me a while to accept that. It actually took me about 14 months postpartum with my first to admit I am different. And I am not better or, or worse. I mean, I do think I'm better, but like I'll say, I'm not, I'm not worse than the, than the version I was, I was before.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Like a lot of people say you'll lose yourself in motherhood. It's actually such a privilege to lose yourself in a way. You don't lose parts of yourself that you need necessarily in this next version. So I think to my former self, I would just say your ambition will be clarified, refined. And it will lead to you making so much more intentional and purposeful moves than you, than you would have had the guts to previously. Like it upped my bravery in a way. And you will change, but don't be scared of that change. The change isn't negative. It's necessary and it makes you more powerful.

• 52:08Speaker 02

  Like motherhood again, it's not a setback. It's a superpower. We just need to continue to do a lot of work systemically to allow women to like continue to embrace that and feel good about it.

• 52:20Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I think that's also why your story is so important for people to hear. Because you've also talked about the fact that you weren't even sure you wanted to be a mom.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  I thought it would hold me back and I thought that it would ruin my career. And. Many women feel that way and it's because we have been made to feel like we can have it all. So we pursue these really big, bold, ambitious careers. And then we get to a moment where we do wanna have children and we feel really worried about what that will mean for us. And because our identity has been wrapped up in these careers, we're worried about the, the identity loss. If we'll be penalized for taking time away from the office. And I actually ran a poll on my Instagram and I asked, do you feel like having a baby would jeopardize your career? And eighty six percent of people said yes.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  And there were probably four thousand women that responded. So that's like a legit survey, albeit.

• 53:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  People will pay for that, that number.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Albeit, I do have like a curated type of audience. But just knowing that so many other women were fearing becoming a mom and felt like there was a choice. They had to choose career or motherhood. Uh, I felt like I had to be very loud about how I was navigating that. What we really need is for society to catch up with us. Like that is the biggest problem. Society has not grown like the way we have grown. Infrastructure hasn't kept up with us. Imagine a world where childcare is free and accessible and women aren't penalized for leaving the workforce to have kids.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  That would be incredible and that is what we need more and more people working towards. And there are agencies waving this flag, you know? There are places in the world that have such better support for parents than we have, especially in the U S. But that's where the, the fear comes from because many of us aren't in safe, supportive environments to pursue motherhood and a career at the same time. And many of us are in environments where it doesn't feel like a choice. It feels like you're being forced one way or another because of how expensive things are or what your household can support.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  So there's a lot, I think, you know, obviously that contributes to women feeling like they can go after both things. Cause it's not necessarily a question of can you do both at the same time? You can, but there are systemic barriers that make that harder for people.

• 54:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Talk to me about the dynamic between you and Belle and the support that he offers you to be able to have it all.

• 55:05Speaker 02

  I think it's really important if you are someone who wants to pursue your career and motherhood at the same time. You can't be with an incompetent man. That's what I've recently really realised. You must be with a competent man. They can look after the kids just as well as you can when you're not there. You can't be with a man who's like, what should I pack? He settles better with you. I don't know how to do that. You have to be with a man who is going to step up and help you manage and carry the mental load. And co-parent, not babysit your kids. So we have a very equal split when it comes to parenting and the household.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  He actually does more around the house than I do because I'm the one breastfeeding 20, 24/7. I'm the one physically doing some things that he can't. So he does more of other things than me. And that has really, really helped because both of us want to have bold, big careers. And you both need to be pulling your weight in, in the house, in the house in order to achieve that. That wasn't just automatic, by the way. He didn't just like step up and know how to do that. There were a couple of moments in the early days where the incompetent man card was played.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  And I remember thinking, no, like the resentment will build so quickly if this continues. Like I can't, I don't want to feel like this again. And so I just called it out at that moment and it's never happened again. And he has just always been there, always stepped up. And I think if you're someone listening to this and maybe you feel like you're stuck in that cycle of a bit of incompetence being played by, by your partner. At the time, I was figuring all this out. I actually saw a TikTok. And it spoke about the fact that you can't micromanage your partner.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  As a mum, you're just wired, I think. You'll be watching them do something and you'll be thinking, oh, that is not right, you know, what are you doing? And this TikTok had a line and it was, you need to let them struggle. And I'm so glad I saw that at the time because it just stopped me from correcting. Like, I stopped hovering, I stopped micromanaging, I stopped correcting. And I would say to myself, just let him struggle. And that meant that he learnt it all. You know, I don't think you want to try and be the expert on your children. Like, you want to allow things to be done differently, feel comfortable with that. And I think that's really helped in me not feeling like I carry the mental load alone

• 57:47Speaker 02

  and that I actually have room in my brain to think about my job.

• 57:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  There's this research study that shows that the first a thousand days of a child's life is the most important, especially linked to the role of the father and of the mother. And I feel like we hear so often about what the mother's role is in the first a thousand days of a child's life, right? Especially for the first at least 365 days, you're like breastfeeding, to your point, alone in a room with them 24/7. Like, what is the context of your male partner's role in your child's life through those first 1,000 days? At least for your first child Alfie, who's now two.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Two?

• 58:26Speaker 02

  One and a half.

• 58:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  One and a half. And obviously, even just with Bobby at seven weeks, like, what is the dynamic that he has? Because we don't often hear about that for fathers.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Hmm. I think once you add a second child to the mix, your partner has to step up again because you are chained to the newborn. And right now, Bill is really managing Alfie 100% of the time compared to what I'm doing because I'm constantly with Bobby. But I also think, we talk about this a lot at Peanut, like, mothers in particular are constantly

• 59:03Speaker 02

  Made to feel like they have to make the right choice, you know, you have to do everything perfectly and we're judged and there is so much data out there and there's so much content online, you know, telling you what you should do and what's best. And I think at the end of the day, it really is about survival in those first, that that first year in particular. And I think you really have to go easy on yourself and not judge yourself. Like I think about mum guilt a lot. I think about that word mum guilt. And sometimes I get women DM me talking about how guilty they feel for returning to work. And I wonder has society told us that we need to feel

• 59:46Speaker 02

  guilty for returning to work or that it's narcissistic to care about our careers. And I actually don't really feel guilty for prioritizing my work alongside being a mum. I know that means I spend a bit less time with my kids, but I don't think about time as the measure of my effectiveness as a parent. I think about being present and being the best version of myself and showing up as a quality parent and being there for them, you know, emotionally as as opposed to how many hours of a day I'm with them. And so I think when it comes to the roles of of parents,

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  I think it's just doing the best that you, the best that you can. And whilst the science might try to tell us there is a best, a best way, there's really just your way and staying afloat mentally and physically in those early years.

• 1:00:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you attached to expectations?

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  I don't think so.

• 1:00:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  The reason I ask is because when you were pregnant with Bobby, your partner had to move away. He, professional athlete, was playing in a different city and you. Had a pregnancy solo.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:01:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Did you have an expectation about what that was gonna be?

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  I've always said I didn't have much of an expectation, but then it just slapped me in the face. I, I guess my expectation was that it actually wouldn't be that hard, which is jokes on me. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. Being a mom is harder than raising money and having my own company. I mean, maybe I shouldn't say harder, but like it's just.

• 1:01:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Cause that word scares me if I'm being honest. Like I'm sitting here at thirty three years old, like I'm at the very beginning of the height of my career, right? Like this is it. It's about to all start. And I've worked my fucking ass off since I was graduated, since I was even before graduated college, I've been a hustler. And I'm hearing this word, it gets harder. And I'm like, it's already so fucking hard. I can't imagine adding another layer to my life to make it hard. So that word that all moms use terrifies me.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I completely relate to that because I remember when I was pregnant with Alfie. I actually reached out to a bunch of entrepreneurial women that I really admired. And I basically tried to get them to tell me, it's not that hard. That's what I was looking for. I was looking for someone to say, it's not that hard. And I couldn't get that answer from any of them. And now I understand why, because

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  it's like, if what you're doing is, is here and it's hard, it's not like motherhood like slots in up here. It just like slots in here right next to it on the hardness level. So when you're doing two things that are fucking hard at the same time, it of course makes everything feel harder, you know? But I think you just figure it out. I don't know how, but we do just figure it out and you just. Get through it. And I suppose the interesting thing with motherhood is once you've been doing something that's hard, like today, getting ready for this. I literally had Bobby strapped to me. He's crying, half asleep. I'm trying to feed him. The clock's ticking down. I'm like, shit, I need to do my hair, makeup.

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  Need to think of a couple of smart things to say. Need to get my head in the game. This is hard. You know, this is a moment where this would be a hell of a lot easier. If I didn't have a newborn strapped to my chest right now and no one around to help me. But by the time I got in the car and he's asleep, the level of accomplishment you feel, it's a different level to even how you feel about your biggest career wins. It just, it's like a warmth almost for, for making it through. I never want to say something that scares people, but I also feel like

• 1:03:55Speaker 02

  the greatest gift we can give other women is to be real about what motherhood is like. But just because it's hard, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It's hard to start a company. It's hard to raise money. It's hard to do what you're doing. But you're doing it anyway and you make it through each day. And like having a startup, I saw this line and it said, having a startup is like being slapped in the face with a fry pan every day. And just having to get used to it. And so it's like, you are building skills that make it easier to be a mom in a way. Like context switching, I think being in a startup and being pulled in all different directions and being able to context switch. That helps with motherhood because it's like, okay, I can be at my desk focusing on this.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  Then I can hear a cry and breastfeed and like, I'll go straight back, you know? So there are definitely complementary skills, but it's just a different ballgame, I think, being, being a mom as well. And I think women need to know that it's, that it's hard and that like you go through matressence and that you change. And everyone says it's worth it, you know, and it is worth it. And I wish we could get into the nuance of what makes it worth it, but it's just kind of indescribable and.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  The scary thing about it is you don't get it till you're an in, you know, so there's no going back.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  But you just have to believe in yourself and that you will rise to the occasion like you've risen to the to the occasion in your career. And it's also totally fine if you end up having kids and your priorities completely change and you don't want to prioritize your career anymore. Like, there is so much power in that, I think. There's so much power in taking a career pause, in working on different businesses. Like, you'll probably have kids and you will unlock this entire other category of businesses that you will want to get involved in. Like, there's so much growth there.

• 1:05:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I think another really hard thing that a lot of people probably listening to this are considering is we've over glamorized this girl boss, this founder mentality. And it is so hard. And there are moments where you realize, like, maybe this isn't the right thing for me. I think it's a big fear for a lot of people to think about going back and admitting defeat, going and working for someone else. You obviously had a successful exit with your company, so it's maybe not the exact apples to apples, but talk to me a little bit about what it took for you to go from being that founder, entrepreneur, CEO, to now going and being an employee of a company.

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I'm currently the president of Peanut, which I guess for anyone who doesn't know what Peanut is, it's actually the biggest online community for mothers in the world. There's over five million women on it. You can track your pregnancy, growth milestones, it has forums. And when I was going through matrescence the first time, dying, wondering what the fuck was going on in my life, I actually downloaded Peanut. It was how I made my first mum friends. And to be honest, you need that, like, companion.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  When you're locked in a house for the past seven weeks, like I have been breastfeeding, and that's what Peanut is for so many women. So I think it's worth noting that context because in terms of transitioning out of running my own company and then deciding I was gonna work for someone else, it wasn't necessarily about, am I gonna continue down this founder path? Or am I gonna be an employee? It was the fact that I had allowed myself to embrace this new version of me so much. I'd really challenged myself on where should my career go next? I think one of the most amazing things about selling a company isn't what their outcome is, it's actually the freedom. It's the fact that you can really go anywhere afterwards. That's

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  what I'd always wondered. At the end of starting my own company, will I hold so much value? I can kinda pick like the best next thing for myself. So it was interesting to challenge that. And I had just become obsessed with thinking about motherhood and speaking about motherhood and talking about career and the juggle and things like that. So Peanut just felt so right to me. And I don't think being entrepreneurial is a role. It's not a role, it's not a title. It's a mindset. And I had been allowed to be an intrapreneur when I was at Bumble, and it was the most fulfilling experience of my life. I think you've won,

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  if you're working for someone else and you are trusted, respected, you love the product, you use the product, and you can be an owner. That's like the best setup, I think. And you can feel that way in your own company, but you can also feel that way in other people's companies. And I just loved, well, love Michelle Kennedy. Like, she'd really been there for me throughout my whole career. She was actually on the board at Bumble. She came up with the name Bumble. And she then invested in Sunroom, and so she's really been There, you know?

• 1:09:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  She's seen you.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I've I've seen her. I saw what she did after Bumble. I saw her create Peanut. The fact that I'd actually used it myself and it had really saved me. I just knew that my next step had to be something that actually mattered. It had to be something which could help women in their darkest times because motherhood can be really isolating and really lonely. And Peanut is there to to solve that. And there really aren't any other products like it. And it just felt like a no brainer. It felt like everything I was looking for. So I still feel like I get to operate like a founder. But I get to do it within someone else's business, which.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

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• 1:10:53Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Means there's less, even less personal risk for me, to be honest. Like, I have a bit of security. I felt was like a good feeling at this stage in my career as well. And I also wanted to get my hands on a big, big brand, on a brand that can make bold statements and kind of partner with anyone in this baby motherhood space. And Peanut can do that. So it feels nice to like, get my hands on a product like that again.

• 1:11:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, I love hearing that because I think vulnerably like HSR has become so linked to me. Like it is, when you think of Maggie, you think of HSR now, right? Do you agree with that?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  Hundred percent, you are HSR.

• 1:12:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. And for me, because it is such a part of my identity, I can't even put my mindset right now into a place of like, if that didn't work out, what would I do? And I feel like I would feel a lot of pressure to start something again because it's like proving people wrong.

• 1:12:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Was there any of that that you had or not because you had a successful exit?

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  I know what you mean. Um, I guess it comes back to challenging the status quo and just being okay with doing things where you don't really care what someone else would think. Like, I definitely had a brief moment where I was like, oh, is this my only choice now? Do I need to found another company? And I spent a lot of time thinking about what sort of company I would build if I was to do it again. And to be honest, I would wanna build a Peanut. And so maybe that's why it makes so much sense also. Like, I think I just really could see the power of the Peanut product. And again, it was like, why would I try and recreate this amazing thing that already exists and is helping so many women?

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  I wanna help blow it up and like, join a team that are already like on the ride and kind of help take it from strength to strength. So, yeah, I think there's always that fear of like, whilst I was doing Sunroom, I often fantasized, I guess, about what the end would be like and what is a win. Or a loss. And again, I kind of reached this conclusion that there's just no bad ending when you have founded a business. Like, even if you start a business and it never makes any money and it fails within a year, you have increased your own capital,

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  your own personal capital and your own worth. You'll be able to go into any interview and provide insights and no one else can. You have proven that you've done something that many people don't have the guts to do. And you also could take those learnings and push them into another business. Like, I think it's about how you operate through the process. Like, I kind of loved when we got to the end of Sunroom and our lead investor was like, if you guys do something again, like, we'd reinvest in you. And I think that is kind of a nice way to, to, to walk away. But yeah, I'd be so excited to see what you would do with Hot Smart Rich, like, if you were also a mum. Not saying that's what you need to

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  do, you know, it's not, it's not the be all and end all. It's just this really transformative thing that like expands your brain and will make you see things you've never seen before. And it'll just make your, your company even more powerful if that's what you want it to do. You know, I think it comes back to choice. And I think this is why it's so amazing if we imagine a world where society cared as much about caregiving and motherhood as it did capitalism. Like, that would actually be better for the economy, you know? And I think it would really help women when it comes to wondering how they will navigate career and motherhood. There's just a lot of work that needs to be done.

• 1:15:20Maggie Sellers Reum?

  A lot of 20 year olds listening to this, they, I get this question all the time. They're like, I'm ambitious, I wanna be like you, but I'm just. Self-conscious. I don't know what's the first step. For someone that's listening to this that wants to be like you, where do they start?

• 1:15:37Speaker 02

  You do need to have a solid risk appetite. Like, I have made moves in my career that people have literally said to my face, "Why'd you do that?" Like, when I left Bumble, people were like, "Oof." They were judging me for that decision. When I started Sunroom, mentors and people I really respected told me it was a bad idea. They told me I was going to ruin my reputation by starting a company in the creator economy space. And Sunroom allowed for slightly more sensual content. And people told me that that was a risky place to be. And I remember one mentor explicitly saying to me, "You'll never be on a board if you go into this kind of area." I think it's how you respond to people doubting you.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  So in those moments where people told me I was never going to be on a board and that was a bad idea, I didn't see that as a reason to not take the scary move. That actually lit a fire in me even more and made me think, "Okay, if I can help curate this brand in a way that changes that person's perception, then this is a powerful product. And I'm motivated by marketing in a way that changes people's perceptions." So I think you have to be okay with rejection and doubters. And it's how those doubts make you feel. Because some feedback is warranted.

• 1:17:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Totally.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  You might not have a good idea.

• 1:17:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  You know, so it's not about ignoring all of it, but you have to be comfortable doing things that other people might not be comfortable with. But it does take, I think if you looked at what I'd done on a piece of paper, maybe the sacrifices I made at each.

• 1:17:22Speaker 02

  Juncture wouldn't be as obvious as like moving back in with your parents, getting a retail job, leaving a very comfortable salary and other things on the table and paying yourself fifty five grand and moving to another country. Feeling vulnerable and insecure, but still backing yourself and reaching out to people that you respect and admire and just seeing where it goes. I just believe everything works out as it's meant to. And even if you failed at any of those moments of putting yourself out there and being brave or asking the question or feeling like you take a backward step, it always leads to a leap in future. Like I have on paper, probably taken backward steps, knowing it will lead to a giant leap somewhere down the line.

• 1:18:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, well, I need to stop there and just do some rapid fire because that was like a sermon. I love it. Michelle.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, fuck, I'm scared.

• 1:18:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, these are fun. What's the last thing you put on your credit card?

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, of course it was my hair. My hair, my hair yesterday.

• 1:18:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How much was it?

• 1:18:23Speaker 02

  Five hundred and thirteen dollars.

• 1:18:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh, God, it looks amazing.

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  She's so good.

• 1:18:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. What is the last most expensive thing you put on your credit card?

• 1:18:34Speaker 02

  The next most expensive was, um, I bought a pair of boots. They cost two hundred and thirty four dollars.

• 1:18:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, love it. From where?

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  From the adult chavita. They're like a Kate, is that how you say that brand? They're like a Kate dupe.

• 1:18:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, I love that. What's more exhausting, being a woman online or being a mom?

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  Oh, it's fucking exhausting being a woman online. It's weird that I'm thinking like, I mean, physically, it's more exhausting being a mom, running around with a toddler. Hectic. But sometimes being online, I'm the kind of person where a comment here or there, I will stew on that. Like, I don't have the skills when it comes to dealing with online, whereas I'm really working on myself when it comes to motherhood. So maybe that will make you feel less scared of being a mother as well. Like, online's pretty exhausting.

• 1:19:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Employee, founder, executive?

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  Oh, which do I prefer?

• 1:19:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. You can only have one for the rest of your life.

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  Executive.

• 1:19:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Ooh, so you're exactly where you are meant to be.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, because you can have skin in the game as an exec.

• 1:19:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  And security.

• 1:19:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, but I even, I've never worked for a startup where I didn't own equity, except for one.

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is your favorite women founded company that's not Peanut or Sunroom or Bumble?

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  I really like, is it Cake, those nipple shields?

• 1:19:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's exactly who I thought you were gonna say.

• 1:19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love what they are doing. I think they are setting a brilliant example for women founded businesses. And this is like what I love about Peanut too. It's like, don't just say you care about women, fucking prove it. A lot of people pretend and I'd love to call the pretenders out. I'd love to create a database, you know?

• 1:20:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  See one here, Michelle.

• 1:20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we'll give it to Cake Beauty because that's just incredible. I think they're about to take a month off. They give their whole team a month of paid leave right now and they're paying for childcare.

• 1:20:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You can only pick one thing. What do you think your career has most been driven by? Timing, luck, skill?

• 1:20:41Speaker 02

  Timing, because I believe luck isn't really a real thing. It's a combination of time and opportunity colliding at the same moment. That is what creates luck. There's still some skill in there. So I, I think it's, it's timing.

• 1:20:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Favorite comfort creator?

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  Halle Batshield.

• 1:21:05Speaker 02

  I just love how outrageous she is and I just watch her live her life and I'm like, go off, girl. This is so.

• 1:21:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Go on Sunroom and go off.

• 1:21:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is so unhealthy and I am so here for it.

• 1:21:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Uh, okay, last one. What is an opinion about women that always gets you into trouble?

• 1:21:28Speaker 02

  Maybe I don't have one because I really try not to judge. I think motherhood has instilled that in me. Like, you really don't know the walk someone is walking, you know, whatever that line is. There's so much judgment out there when it comes to moms, like how you feed, what you do around sleep, like how you speak to your child. If you're in, if you're sending your kid to daycare, if you have a nanny, blah, blah, blah. So I like, don't, I, I literally don't really judge anything about women's choices. Maybe the thing that gets me into trouble is I judge the people that judge them, you know?

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  So like, if someone's out there with a strong opinion around like formula or something like that, I really despise that because I'm like, you have no fucking clue how hard it is for some people to breastfeed. Like, you cannot judge a, a woman's choices around certain things. So maybe what gets me into trouble is how hard I judge the judges. So maybe that means I actually am judgmental.

• 1:22:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Michelle Battersby, where can people find you?

• 1:22:36Speaker 02

  On Instagram, I guess, at Michelle Battersby.

• 1:22:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And say, sell it?

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:22:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, because it's a hard last name. I mean, I can't pronounce it.

• 1:22:47Speaker 02

  Okay, do I need to spell Michelle or just Battersby? Okay, Battersby, B A double T E I S B Y.

• 1:22:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And what can Aegis or help you with right now?

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Oh, I just, I need all, if you're a mom out there and you're not on Peanut, you need to be. And if you're a woman out there who is about to go through that transition, you also need to be on Peanut because even for me, I've got, I've got mom groups. You know, I've got the group chats where I can ask my friends things. But the other day I had a question, which I just didn't even feel comfortable asking all the other moms. I was like, you know what, I need to do this incognito on Peanut on a place where I won't be judged. And I just threw it out there and I just, I need, I need the moms to know, like, there is a safe community full of women who get it and are going through it, that you can go and doom scroll on. And it's much better for your health than doing it on Instagram or TikTok.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  So honestly, I know it sounds biased, but like it is a lifeline for so many women and you just need to know what's out there.

• 1:23:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Thank you so much for coming on Hot Smart Rich. We love you.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  I love you. Thanks for having me.

• 1:24:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board, but then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly, or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 1:24:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 1:25:06Speaker 04

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.