VP Kamala Harris Speaks Freely After the White House

Former Vice President Kamala Harris joins Keke to discuss life after the White House, midterms, 2028 and what Democrats may be missing. Harris reflects on whether she regrets becoming Vice President, the pressure of being first, voting rights, Black voters and what has surprised her about Trump. They also get into affordability, accountability and the power of millennials, with Keke sharing how those issues hit differently as a Black woman and single working mother. Plus, what’s next for Harris. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  Today, I'm sitting down with former Madam Vice President Kamala Harris. When we first talked in 2023, our conversation centered on Black maternal health, reproductive rights, and why elections matter. Since then, she ran for president, lost an election that would have made history, and began figuring out what comes next. Now, she's campaigning for Democratic candidates ahead of the midterms, while questions about her own political future are getting louder. And for me, these questions hit close to home. I'm a Black woman, a millennial, a business owner, and a working, single mom trying to build a life and future for my son. I want to talk about the question shaping this moment.

• 0:44Keke Palmer?

  How much everything costs, whether our rights are protected, whether our voices are heard, and whether showing up still makes a difference. So I want to know, after everything that has happened, what does Madam Vice President Kamala Harris believe now about the country, her party, and herself? What does she think needs to change? And what does any of it mean for people trying to build their lives right now? And yes, we're gonna ask the question everybody wants answered. Is she running for president again? We've got a lot to catch up on. So let's get into it, because, baby, this is Keke Palmer.

• 1:53Keke Palmer?

  Today's episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. We spend so much time checking in on everybody else, but when's the last time you checked in on your heart? Apple Watch Series 12 has an all-new health-sensing system that unlocks even more powerful health insights. In health, heart is everything. Now, let's get into today's show.

• 2:16Keke Palmer?

  Come on out, Madam VP.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 2:20Keke Palmer?

  Always so good to see you.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  Hi, honey.

• 2:22Keke Palmer?

  How are you?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Very well. Oh, I'm very well. Oh, it's so good to see you.

• 2:26Keke Palmer?

  So good to see you, too.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Look at the studio.

• 2:28Keke Palmer?

  I know, it's right. I mean, last time I was at your building, in your house.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 2:32Keke Palmer?

  We've got a couple of upgrades over here.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  No, it's really, this is beautiful. This is incredible.

• 2:37Keke Palmer?

  And we did an extra razzle-dazzle for you, of course.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Well, I'm very impressed.

• 2:40Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  And thank you, and congratulations on all your success and your leadership.

• 2:45Keke Palmer?

  Thank you so much.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Really.

• 2:46Keke Palmer?

  You know, it always means so much when I get that no-call ID. And I'm like, oh, this must be Madam VP. I gotta answer. You know what I mean? I thank you so much for the birthday wish and just always how you're checking in. It really does mean a lot.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 3:01Keke Palmer?

  It really does. I'm glad we get to have another sit-down.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Me, too.

• 3:03Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Me, too.

• 3:04Keke Palmer?

  And to share with the audience. Leo is good, getting big as ever. He wanted to come out here, but he makes too much noise.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Oh, but that's good. That's good. That's healthy.

• 3:12Keke Palmer?

  But I'm gonna have him come out, you know, when we're done, so he can see you.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  You brought the baby to the White House to visit me. I remember. I remember.

• 3:20Keke Palmer?

  That was crazy.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  It was beautiful.

• 3:21Keke Palmer?

  And he looked like a little egg in that picture.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 3:23Keke Palmer?

  Too funny.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 3:25Keke Palmer?

  Have you been? You've been traveling?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  I'm very well. Been traveling, trying to get everybody out for the midterms.

• 3:31Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  You know, make sure everybody knows the power of their vote.

• 3:34Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  That's so important.

• 3:36Keke Palmer?

  And where were you just? You said you were in Michigan.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  I was in Michigan.

• 3:38Keke Palmer?

  I know you're excited to go talk to some students.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  I talked to, I talked to young people. I, um, there was one event that is a continuation of a conversation you and I have been having for years around maternal health.

• 3:49Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  And talking with, I was at, there's this place in Detroit. It's the Detroit Birth Center.

• 3:56Keke Palmer?

  Uh-huh.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  And what they're doing is it's a model of the idea that we need to have community-based facilities as birthing centers for women.

• 4:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  So they can be in their own community, being treated in a community that understands and respects them and gives them the dignity they deserve. And so I was visiting with them and, you know, talking about just the work that we still have to do. I mean, Kiki, it's still the case. You and I have talked about this for so long.

• 4:25Keke Palmer?

  We talk about it a lot. And I always, you know, I remember we were talking, we were offline somewhere talking, and you were like, you know, it's different when little Johnny is six and when little Johnny becomes little Johnny that's about to serve five to 10.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 4:37Keke Palmer?

  And it starts with the mother. And I think sometimes, I don't know, you know, how seriously people took it, but immediately, especially because I was becoming a new mother at that time, and I was dealing with postpartum and all the things that come with being a new mom and realizing the blessings that I have, having the resources that I have, and starting working so young, and then realizing how that is a disadvantage of those that don't have that access. So, you know, it's like, you hate, you hate the baby and you hate the mama. And you don't support the mama to support the best outcome for the baby.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Like Tupac talked about.

• 5:10Keke Palmer?

  Like Tupac, come on, it's the Tupac Shakur of it all. That's right. That's right. And so I've always been really, uh, just affected by that.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:19Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? And all the work that we can do there.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  I think part of the issue is, one, you know, society tends to judge so harshly parents and mothers. And in my experience, the vast majority of parents have a natural desire to parent their children well.

• 5:37Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  But in some cases, they don't necessarily have the skills or the resources. But it doesn't mean they don't love their children.

• 5:44Keke Palmer?

  Come on, save it, Isaiah.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  And so what do we need to do? Let's support their natural desire by making sure that we create support systems so that they don't have to try and figure it out on their own.

• 5:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  And that's part of the work we've done. Part of the work has been about saying, you know, look, to have healthy families, you cannot, you cannot take care of the child without taking care of the context in which that child is being raised. And, you know, it is the idea that we, oh, we would know what to do and we're gonna judge that parent as though you're gonna swoop in and take that child. No, that, we have to help the child in the context of the family in which that child is being raised.

• 6:25Keke Palmer?

  That's right. And understand, like you said, the whole bit about them being within their communities. Understand the community that you are observing. What you deem as something is actually sometimes cultural remnants. It's the, it's lineage. It's, it's, you know, it's the architecture of those people.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  That's exactly right.

• 6:41Keke Palmer?

  Um, I know we'll get into some more of that. I always like to start the show with a little pre-show pull-up, because I gotta catch up with how, how things are now that you're a private citizen again.

• 6:51Keke Palmer?

  What is one thing you're enjoying more than you expected?

• 6:55Speaker 01

  I am enjoying sleep.

• 6:59Keke Palmer?

  I bet.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  I mean, let me tell you, I think it's really, it's, the importance of a good night's sleep is highly undervalued.

• 7:06Keke Palmer?

  It is.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  It is really important.

• 7:08Keke Palmer?

  It can honestly drive you crazy if you're not getting enough sleep. Um, okay, I know you love to cook.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:13Keke Palmer?

  If you could cook for anybody, living or dead, who would it be? And what would you make them?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Oh, well, you know, is this gonna make me emotional? I, my mother passed years ago. I would cook for her, you know?

• 7:26Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, was there something that she loved that you made?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Well, you know, my mother was a very, very good cook.

• 7:32Keke Palmer?

  Ooh.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  And when I was very young, my mother looked at me and she said, Kamala, you like to eat good food. You need to learn how to cook.

• 7:38Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  And so I learned how to cook from my mother. And she, as she was getting, you know, as she was getting sick, she had cancer. She really loved for me to cook for her. And it was anything from like this pasta that I make to, to just like soups and...

• 8:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, whatever y'all had the feeling for.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's exactly right.

• 8:03Keke Palmer?

  I love it.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  And it's about the smell and the taste. And I think there's something so special about the gift you can give somebody that you care about, that is about a good meal. And then, you know, and there's nothing like sitting down at a table and somebody to sit down, I'll, I'll bring you a plate. There is nothing, and you can talk about all the fancy things that we have done and all the fancy rooms and the lovely people who want to make our life easier. But having a home-cooked meal by someone that loves you and you sit down at the table and they bring you a plate, there is nothing in the world like that.

• 8:44Keke Palmer?

  It's so true. That's how I feel with everyone, with my dad. My dad is such a good cook. My mom, however?

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Uh-huh. No.

• 8:51Keke Palmer?

  Your perfect day where there's nothing on your schedule. Are you a walker? Are you in your house?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Doug and I love to take walks, so we definitely take walks together. You know, back to the thing, I will be, like, Sunday, Sundays, I try to have clear as much as possible. Sunday family dinner is just non-negotiable for me.

• 9:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  And so starting out by taking a walk and then coming back and cooking. I mean, you know what I've been doing, though, recently is, um, Pilates.

• 9:23Keke Palmer?

  So funny you'd mention that.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Tell me.

• 9:26Keke Palmer?

  We'd love to have you in Palm City over practice by Palmer. You know I am a Pilates instructor.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  I do not know.

• 9:33Keke Palmer?

  Are you serious? Yes.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Seriously, like doing all the, the, the, the thing.

• 9:41Keke Palmer?

  Yes, Cor.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:43Keke Palmer?

  That powerhouse was powerhouseing.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Right, like the, the.

• 9:47Keke Palmer?

  So do you like the mat or do you like the reformer?

• 9:49Speaker 01

  I like the reformer.

• 9:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, the reformer is really fun and it really feels like you're really getting into it.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:54Keke Palmer?

  But the mat, as I started to study, the mat became my end all be all. Because I could just do it from anywhere.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:00Keke Palmer?

  You can't beat that.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  But do you take the ring with you?

• 10:03Keke Palmer?

  I have the ring, I have some toning balls.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  So when you're, when you're traveling, do you take the ring?

• 10:07Keke Palmer?

  I do.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  And you just, and you have the mat?

• 10:10Keke Palmer?

  Yep, I have the mat. Sometimes I bring my mat, sometimes I don't. You know, I just lay a towel out in the hotel. There was a period of time where I was rolling around that mat with me everywhere. I said, Kiki, come on now, in the airport.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  You put the towel down.

• 10:21Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, I just put a towel down in the hotel and call it a day.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:24Keke Palmer?

  But I like the, I like the fitness circle and I like toning balls. Um, but then sometimes I just like the body. I also like bands too. Put a little band above the knee.

• 10:34Speaker 01

  Right, yes, I did that.

• 10:36Keke Palmer?

  You know, just to give it a little.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  And then you, and then, oh, that will, that hurts.

• 10:40Keke Palmer?

  Girl, it gets some spots that you didn't know that you needed to get.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  But that's the thing.

• 10:44Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:45Speaker 01

  That you realize you've got all these muscles that you otherwise do not use.

• 10:49Keke Palmer?

  It's so true. Do you feel like with Pilates, and I say this because I feel like people don't understand how much of what you do in Pilates transfers to life, has supported you at all? Like just the control, there's so much that happens when you're in these different positions in the repertoire that require you to be more adaptable, that allow you to reflect on your thoughts. I'm curious if with all that you're managing, has been any support there for you?

• 11:11Speaker 01

  But yes, and you're exactly right. That's exactly what happens. Because also, I mean, there, you know, I, I mentor a lot of people and, you know, and, and there's so much about empowerment that is, is about knowing your strength and, and, and recognizing it, right? So we all have strength, but sometimes the issue between actually, you know, demonstrating it is, is just being aware of it.

• 11:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  And there's something about physical strength and that is connected to that.

• 11:41Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  And, um, and doing Pilates, I mean, I'm just realizing that, you know, there are all of these muscles and areas that I have not been exercising. And there is something that translates into just an overall feeling of well-being.

• 11:56Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, it like really impacts and changes your posture, especially when you get it out of the whole thing of I need a six pack per se. Like, no, I just want to be in my body. I just want to be in my body.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 12:05Keke Palmer?

  Um, okay, if Doug, Cole and Ella had to agree on your most annoying habit, what would they say?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Voicemail messages.

• 12:15Keke Palmer?

  Don't tell me you give it 20 minutes.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  No, I just, but I leave voicemail messages and nobody does these days. You, right.

• 12:22Keke Palmer?

  I got one, I saved mine.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  But nobody does, so they want me to text and I call. I like to call.

• 12:28Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  I want to hear people's voice.

• 12:30Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  And so, you know, they want, they want, especially the kids, they want, you know, a text.

• 12:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  But I call.

• 12:35Keke Palmer?

  I love that. Come on, it's the, it's the, it's the little voice note or the voicemail. Okay, the one thing that you are, and maybe you're not the word I'm about to say, but if you are, let us know. The one thing you're surprisingly competitive about?

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't think any of it would be surprising.

• 12:54Keke Palmer?

  I'm serious at Monopoly.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  I mean, if we're, you know, if we're playing games, you know, whether it be cards or, I, recently, I said to Doug, let's, I, my, my Uncle Sherman, when we were kids, said to my sister Maya and me, I'm going to teach you girls how to play chess because the world is like a chessboard and, and all the different moves and you need to, to understand how these things work in life.

• 13:20Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:22Speaker 01

  And so recently I said to Doug, let's start playing chess together. Oh, the competitive side of both he and I just came out in full, full color.

• 13:34Keke Palmer?

  It's also a long game.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  It's a long game.

• 13:37Keke Palmer?

  It's serious.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  But, and also it is a, it's a thinking game. Because you have to think about your third step before you take your first step. And then when it becomes obvious that you took, you misstepped.

• 13:51Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Then, and, and when your opponent sees it, that's, that can be so frustrating.

• 13:57Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, because they'd be like, uh.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 13:59Keke Palmer?

  Start laughing and stuff, what you laughing at?

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Like, because they, they were like, I saw that coming a mile away.

• 14:04Keke Palmer?

  But then sometimes it's a mind game. I used to do that to people with chess, can't believe you just did that. They did nothing.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 14:10Keke Palmer?

  But you just want to get them off their feet a little bit.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 14:12Keke Palmer?

  You ever play Spades?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 14:14Keke Palmer?

  Yes!

• 14:15Speaker 01

  You ever played Bitwisp?

• 14:17Keke Palmer?

  No, I need to get on that.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Are you really?

• 14:19Keke Palmer?

  That's the OGs. My daddy even taught me that chess.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 14:21Keke Palmer?

  But the Spades, girl.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yes, I know.

• 14:23Keke Palmer?

  I'd be at a Spades party, ready to go in. It's so fun. I feel like Spades hasn't really gotten its universal credentials, but it's like, it's one of those ones.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  I love, listen, I love a card game.

• 14:34Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  And you can play all night.

• 14:37Keke Palmer?

  Ah, the best parties. Okay, if you could permanently delete one chore from your life, what would it be?

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, um.

• 14:45Keke Palmer?

  If there is one, you might be somebody that say, I love it.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Washing dishes.

• 14:48Keke Palmer?

  Ah, you still do it?

• 14:50Speaker 01

  I'd like a clean kitchen. Maybe that's the thing that annoys everybody. I, like, I, I do not want to wake up in the morning to a dirty kitchen.

• 14:59Keke Palmer?

  It's hard to do that, yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  I do not, I do not like leaving dishes in the sink at all. Uh, no, put it in the dishwasher or wash it.

• 15:08Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. I, I can be like that, but it got to the point where it was, it would just be me doing, keep, keep on doing it.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  But that's why if I could eliminate it, I would.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  That's exactly why.

• 15:21Keke Palmer?

  I see how we come back around to that. Okay, the last time that you were here, you were the Vice President of the United States. What is different, would you say, that you've seen about the Madam Vice President Kamala Harris that I see in front of me today?

• 15:35Speaker 01

  You know, um, I've, I've been joking a little bit, I've, I've been on my freedom tour.

• 15:41Keke Palmer?

  Come on, freedom tour, yes.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  I, um, there is a freedom that I realize has come with not being in office.

• 15:49Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  And with not feeling, um, concerned about the constant, you know, microscope.

• 16:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Which parses every word you say, um, in a way that can be very stifling. I'm just, I'm, I'm feeling quite unburdened by that at the moment.

• 16:14Keke Palmer?

  I can only imagine. And it never changes really as a public figure.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't.

• 16:19Keke Palmer?

  But also a public figure with that level of responsibility.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:23Keke Palmer?

  It's really, um, insane.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  And the thing, and the thing, Kiki, is, is the awareness, you're right, is, is natural. It would be foolish not to be aware of the, of the, the spotlight.

• 16:36Keke Palmer?

  Sure.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  But to the point that it stifles your truth and your expression of truth, that's when it becomes a problem, right?

• 16:46Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:47Keke Palmer?

  Yes, there's so much that I want to get on that, but I also wanted to mention this because I found out that when you were a teenager, you were in a dance group called Midnight Magic. What kind of dancing was Midnight Magic doing?

• 16:59Speaker 01

  It was called Jazz Ballet.

• 17:03Keke Palmer?

  Come on, Jazz Ballet.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  And we, no, we were Midnight Magic. We did, but then, um, like, we, we made our own costumes. We sewed our, so we had like these, one, one costume was this, um, leotard with long sleeves and then we sewed fringe onto it so that when I would do this, the fringe would go back and forth.

• 17:24Keke Palmer?

  Yes, we had to give drama.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Midnight Magic, uh huh.

• 17:27Keke Palmer?

  I love it, shout out to Midnight Magic, they know who they are. Um, you've talked about your friend group, the close people that, you know, you've had the same friends for a really long time.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 17:36Keke Palmer?

  What do they know about you that no one else knows? Having seen you grow over the years, obviously.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  I mean, I think they know that I love very deeply and I, um, I truly care, you know? And I think that's something that they know and then makes them very protective around, you know, in, in the arena of politics.

• 18:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  The, the kinds of battles you can be in, yeah.

• 18:11Keke Palmer?

  That's very tough on people that you love.

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can be.

• 18:14Keke Palmer?

  Obviously, I've never been in, in public facing in politics.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:17Keke Palmer?

  Again, I, I cannot be remiss not to say that's a different level.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:21Keke Palmer?

  Um, but even just for me being in the public eye, it's hard for our families and friends and loved ones. Is there any preparations that you took to prepar, because the reason why I say that is because it's hard for somebody not to come out there and be like, stop talking about so and so, you know what I mean? But it's like, that'll make you look crazy. So was there, you know what I mean? Like Doug coming out there ready to fight?

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Well, that did happen once. Doug jumped the stage.

• 18:44Keke Palmer?

  Come on Doug.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Doug was in the back of the auditorium.

• 18:48Keke Palmer?

  Doug said he had nothing funny.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  And I was on the stage, and I was on the stage. And this fellow came on the stage approaching me.

• 18:56Keke Palmer?

  Oh my god.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  And Doug was in the back of the auditorium. Ran down the aisle, right down the middle and jumped on the stage. Um, so I guess, so that has happened.

• 19:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. Yes.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  But you know, one of the things that I say to, to, to my family, starting with him. Do not, don't read the comments.

• 19:19Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Don't read the comments. Like, you know, and I, you gotta be aware enough of how, you know, the work you are doing is impacting people. But, um, sometimes depending on the outlet, the comments are not, you know, they're not actually authentic in terms of constructive criticism when it is critical.

• 19:40Keke Palmer?

  Yes, that's so important. I think that's important for anybody to take away when it comes to online and comments, whether they're entertainer or they're just somebody online. It's really important to know that it is a difference between constructive criticism and people just talking.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  And being mean.

• 19:53Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  You know, I made a decision a long time ago, at least in my personal life, to really start to minimize any relationship that is close with anyone who's mean. I just decided, I don't, I don't want to be, if I can avoid it, around mean people.

• 20:10Keke Palmer?

  I imagine that has a lot to do why you've reached so many of your goals.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:14Keke Palmer?

  Um, your whole career has been structured around the next thing, the next case, the next race, the next office, the next responsibility. Now there's not necessarily a title telling you what comes next. Do you still feel that, that, that tug coming at you? You know, or, you know, figuring out what you want? Or is that just who you are still?

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Uh, Kiki, I, the one thing I can tell you, um, I don't know how to live a life that is not about service. I just don't. I don't. And I wanted to serve, which is why I ran.

• 20:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  And the desire to serve is still very much in me. I mean, that's why I'm traveling the country to talk with people about the midterms and, or to, to elevate, you know, certain issues such as those we've discussed.

• 21:11Keke Palmer?

  Um, yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  I, I don't know how to live a life that is other than trying to use the gifts God has given me, the platform I have, um, to lift people up.

• 21:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. What do you think that that gift is? And I only ask it because I'm always talking about this, especially when, you know, I'm talking to students or people that are creative. Identifying the function that allows you to serve. Cause I think that all human beings actually, you know, want to be of service. I think it makes us all happy.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:43Keke Palmer?

  It doesn't necessarily mean being a public servant or, you know, being charitable. But it's like just having a valuable contribution.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:50Keke Palmer?

  What would you say you realized was your greatest function to be able to be of service? Like, would you say it was communication or organizing? What would you say let you know? And then you decided to put it in, being a public servant?

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Uh, I think a lot of it had to do with my desire to protect those who are vulnerable or voiceless, you know? So from the fir-, you know, that's one of the reasons I, I wanted to go to law school. My heroes were, you know, among, you know, Thurgood Marshall, the people who fought for civil rights in the courtroom to lift up the voices of those in the street, right?

• 22:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  And the work that I did as a prosecutor was focused on crimes against women and children. Again, to give them a voice and to, and to give them power in a dynamic that was, um, denying their power, right?

• 22:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. I mean, you, you know, like you said earlier with the Freedom Tour of it all, you can speak more freely to things that you maybe couldn't have before when you were in, you know, office going for the campaign. Um, but since then, you've been campaigning ahead of the midterms in support of Democrats. What are you saying now, more directly, that you feel like you weren't able to say then?

• 23:09Speaker 01

  I mean, look, one of the things I've been talking about is, um, you know, there's this Supreme Court decision that came down, um, it's called the Cal A decision, which basically gutted, killed the Voting Rights Act, which was designed to protect people's rights to have access to the ballot and to vote. And since that decision, you've seen in particular in the South, uh, all these states that are, are basically depriving people of their ability to have representation. Um, it is estimated that, for example, you know, the Congressional Black Caucus, that as many as one-third of them are gonna lose their seats because of what has just happened. And, which means not only certain office holders are gonna lose their seat,

• 23:51Speaker 01

  but the voices they represent are gonna lose their voice, right? In, in Congress. So my work has been about saying, we gotta, we gotta fight for these issues and we have to call it what it is. So part of what I've been talking about is that that decision, basically, they said, well, you know, it's politics, it's okay if they redistrict around race. Cause it's just politics. No, and so what I've been saying, cause it is what I absolutely believe, no, they have backdoored racism through the door of politics. And we have to call it what it is. They're going back to a Jim Crow South on the issue of voting.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  And, you know, so the, the folks on the other side wanna criticize me for saying that? I don't care. I don't care, cause I'm calling it what it is. Because of that decision, it is estimated we could lose as many as 200 state black legislators in the South. And so I'm going and I'm talking with folks. Most recently, uh, you know, one of the places I was was Louisiana. I'm talking about how we need to be transactional voters. Meaning, let's not only vote because we honor the ancestors and those who lost blood on the Edmund Pettus Bridge, but let's vote also because we expect to get something out of it. And so I am saying to large groups of people, so when you vote,

• 25:18Speaker 01

  yes, we will honor the ancestors, knowing that they died and fought for our right to vote. But we also are gonna let everybody know, we expect to get something for our vote that relates to the healthcare we can't afford, the childcare we can't afford, the housing we can't afford.

• 25:34Keke Palmer?

  It just seems like we are up against so much from you, who the people, all the different people that's in charge. We can say we want something, but then everything keeps getting backdoored. Like, what is it that actually can be changed today in this moment? It feels as if it's an avalanche of stuff that we won't feel the, you know, the, the, the success of, of, you know, years from now. When everything is getting gone, like, within the snap of a finger.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  On the first Tuesday in November,

• 26:08Speaker 01

  the midterms are gonna happen. And our ability to put people in Congress who will say no when they do things like cut $1 trillion out of Medicaid, will be powerful and affect people right away. Our ability to put people in Congress who will say enough of the corruption, enough of ending the, the, the funding for research on issues like fibroids, which they have done under the guise of attacking DEI, can be stopped.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  There are things that are not only about what will be helpful, but also stopping what is harmful that we can do right away with these midterm elections. It is so important. You know, one has to ask, why are they going through such effort to make it so difficult for people to vote? The answer is pretty straightforward in my mind, is because they know your power and they're afraid of it. They're afraid of the power of the people when they vote. And so, let's know, let's look at the other side of that. They know our power. Let's show them our power. I believe when you feel powerless, you are powerless. When you feel powerful, you are powerful.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  And we are powerful. So, look, on this election, they're cheating.

• 27:38Keke Palmer?

  It's so hard sometimes to even think about that. I had to think about that when everything happened with this last time. You know what I'm saying? When we lost out there was what makes people make the decisions that they make? And I had to come to myself and say, well, it's hard to think straight when you hungry. It's hard to think about some of these things when you don't, when you can't pay your bills. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, gray, straight, trans, anything. Universally, we all connect to some things that as humans, just we're all human beings that we all agree on. When you think about the Democratic Party, I had to ask myself this. What do you think that they missed in all of that?

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Well, let me just unpack a little bit of what you're saying. Part of the, what happens is, in the dynamic, is when folks are so rightly concerned with getting through the week and the month to pay their rent, to, to, childcare in many places is as, if not in some places, more expensive than rent. Housing. So, you're right. People are so, not just overwhelmed, but, but they're literally trying to survive.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  But one has to ask, isn't it convenient for them to cut the funding for all these kinds of things that is about helping people get through the week and the month? Sending America into a war nobody wanted so that the gas prices are more than people can afford to, and to get to work? What they're doing with these, these random tariffs, which is basically a tax on working people so that they can't afford the kind of food and, and, and, and regular everyday items that they need because they're so much more expensive? But here's, here's my point.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  So while we are then, so many people overwhelmed by the reality of daily life, that's a good way to distract people from the fact that they are corrupt, that they are making billions of dollars, that they are giving tax breaks to the richest people. Because who has time to focus on the corruption if you can't pay for groceries and gas?

• 30:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. And that, that's, that's, that's where I struggle as a person, you know, in, just that cares about connection and it cares about us moving forward is I don't, that is my issue is where do we help the destabilize, stabilize enough to be able to make conscious decisions? What is the work that the party is doing that can be done in, in, in this way that can actually bring people to a point where they feel calm enough, supported enough to be able to even make these decisions? And it sounds crazy, right? Because you would expect people to say, well, hell, you know, I got, of course I gotta vote and of course I gotta do it. This is obvious thing that I should do. But we have been so deprived. The country is so deprived. The middle class is so unseen.

• 30:47Keke Palmer?

  The, the, it's so divided. Our, we're being so demoralized, dehumanized that people cannot even see, like, like I'll say this, that just caring about somebody else seems like something only the rich can do.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I believe that there is so much that is happening right now that is in many ways designed to make people feel hopeless and isolated and alone and powerless.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  And it is to actually create a path for them to do the kind of corrupt, unconscionable things that they are doing. And what, you know, in the elections, look, when you look at, at the, the elections coming up, there are a lot of good people running and they're running for local offices, statewide, as well as congressional offices in the House and in the Senate, who are committed to raising benefits for people around childcare.

• 31:58Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Putting back in place the work that we did around cutting the cost of premiums for healthcare. Putting in place very smart legislation around what we need to do to bring down the cost of housing. So there are people who are doing that and running for those offices. And I think it's important that all of us actually try and, and just pay attention to the power that we have to determine who's in Congress right now as a way to put a backstop over an administration that is cutting services across the board that help people on their everyday lives.

• 32:38Keke Palmer?

  I want to talk about some of the things that you did as a vice president. You helped advance major economic and climate legislation and led work, obviously, like we've been talking with the maternal health, reproductive freedom. And I just want to read some of those things out. I mean, you had a 33 tie-breaking Senate votes, you know, the most by any vice president. Consequential votes included passage of the Inflation Reduction Act with major climate prescription drug and corporate tax provisions.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:07Keke Palmer?

  On maternal health, you launched the White House Maternal Health Blueprint, promoted 12 months of postpartum Medicaid coverage and supported federal maternal health investments. After Dobbs, you became the administration's most visible advocate for reproductive freedom. Oversaw the White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:26Keke Palmer?

  Helped implement the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. And obviously, as a vice president, you know, you can advise, advocate, oversee, assign initiatives and cast tie-breaking Senate votes, but you cannot independently enact legislation or overrule the president. I want to know from you, out of the things that you did, what are the things that people can see and reflect that they benefited on today? And I also want to know from you, how badly did you feel that your hands were tied in that position?

• 34:05Keke Palmer?

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• 34:48Keke Palmer?

  your body's inside scoop on stress and recovery. And you can check vitals day or night to catch shifts in your health status before they even think about becoming a whole thing. And that's on self-care, honey. Your heart tells the story of your health and with Apple Watch Series 12, you can understand it better than ever. Visit apple.com slash apple watch series 12 to learn more. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Heart rate accuracy based on Apple conducted study August 2026. Visit apple.com slash HR accuracy. I've been scrolling Airbnb, planning Thanksgiving, and I already know I want to take the family somewhere instead of hosting at home this year.

• 35:33Keke Palmer?

  I'm thinking Hudson Valley Orchards, farm-to-table restaurants, maybe a cider tasting that turns into a whole afternoon. I want to hit a local market the morning of and get everything fresh. Find a bakery for the pies because let's be clear, I do not bake. I perform other talents. Walk through town after dinner when everyone's too full to function but too happy to go inside. And then we'll come back to the cozy home at the end of the night to relax, get comfy, and of course, enjoy those leftovers at midnight. That's what I love about booking trips with Airbnb. You get the comforts of home while exploring new neighborhood, discovering local gems and living your best life.

• 36:15Keke Palmer?

  If a cozy holiday getaway is in your future, play your next family gathering with Airbnb.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  So, we did a lot of good work. And, I mean, for example, you talked about the Medicaid piece. The majority of maternal healthcare in America is funded through Medicaid. When I became Vice President, I realized that in only three states had they extended Medicaid coverage for postpartum care beyond 60 days. So, when I became Vice President, I basically embarked on a campaign of shame, to shame the states that didn't do it.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  And as of today, every state in the Union has now extended Medicaid coverage for postpartum care from 60 days to 12 months, with the exception of Arkansas. The work that we did in terms of job creation, you know, one of the big areas of focus for me was economic opportunity, focused on our entrepreneurs and small businesses, and increasing the capacity of community banks to give loans, to help people start a business and grow a business. We had a lot of success. We raised billions of dollars to do that. The work that we did around, you know, for example, foreign policy.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  I focused a lot of my resources on what we needed to do to change the narrative between the relationship between America and the continent of Africa. And raised billions of dollars of investment, understanding that the median age on the continent is 19, and by 2050, 1 in 4 people on Earth will be on that continent. And so, we need to think about partnership in addition to aid. So, there was a lot of good work that we did, and a lot of good work that I was able to do and lead. The work that we did, and that I did, on voting rights, for example, to strengthen what we could do around protections there. Listen, being Vice President is being number 2.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  It's not being number 1. It was difficult in that way, because I've always been number 1 until then, except when I was in the Senate, and, you know, that's a different, a whole different kind of job.

• 38:43Keke Palmer?

  It's a different version of leadership.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is, a different version of leadership. I mean, when I was in the Senate, I represented 1 in 8 Americans as the Senator from California, and only the 2nd woman, black woman, ever elected to the United States Senate. But there's good work that I'm very proud that we have accomplished and that I led on.

• 39:02Keke Palmer?

  Was there ever a moment where you thought to yourself, "Should I have taken on this role as the VP?"

• 39:08Speaker 01

  No. I was and continue to be very well aware of all the people who charted a path for me to have the distinction of being the highest-elected woman in the history of America. I think about my mentor, who I never met, Shirley Chisholm.

• 39:36Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  I think about all of those people who fought for and imagined a day that someone like me would be in the White House as Vice President. And it was an honor and a weight of duty, of recognition, that I proudly carried.

• 39:59Keke Palmer?

  What could the Democrats do if they win the House or Senate? Like, what would it require a Democratic President to get things back on track? You're up against a lot.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Well, let's start with Congress, because, look, as far as I'm concerned, 2028 doesn't matter if we don't win 2026, okay? And so, you know, I'm a big believer in you got to focus on the thing in front of you instead of just focusing on the thing out there, because if you focus the thing out there too much, you might go trip over the thing in front of you.

• 40:32Keke Palmer?

  That's so real, though.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  You know, I know it is.

• 40:34Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, you can't focus always on the big picture. You can be zoomed out, but the present matters.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  It matters very much, because it also, you have to center yourself in what are you able to do right now, not what I'm going to do, you know?

• 40:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  And the work that we can do about winning back the House and the Senate is going to be on a number of things. For example, I believe that we need to expand the Supreme Court. We need more justices on the Supreme Court, so that we can have a court that actually reinforces the spirit and principles behind the Constitution of the United States. I believe that we should be pushing for what is possible around changing the Electoral College, right?

• 41:19Keke Palmer?

  Because what's going on?

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Well, it's about, you know, the popular vote has to matter, right?

• 41:25Keke Palmer?

  Those are the things that make people feel like, "Ah!"

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Overwhelmed, and does their vote matter?

• 41:32Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  I know. We have, you know, listen, if the folks there want it, we should be pushing for statehood for Puerto Rico and DC, right? These are some of the things that are structural that we need to do. But we need to, we need to re-establish affordable childcare. This administration has turned back the curtain on what Obamacare was able to do, cutting the premiums for millions of Americans who are now falling out of their insurance, which means what? Taxpayers are going to be paying more money, because those folks, when they are in dire straits, are going to get their healthcare through the emergency room, which is much more expensive.

• 42:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  When we take back control, then we can put back in place a step toward getting the John Lewis Voting Rights Act passed. There's work to be done.

• 42:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. You've said before that ultimately, it comes down to elections. And you mentioned it just here before, you know, moments ago in the conversation. Of course, we know people die for our right to vote, but honoring that history doesn't mean just giving a blank check, right? So, what should people expect from candidates? What should they be looking out for? You know, how should they hold elected leaders accountable?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  So, part of it is showing up, and letting those elected leaders know that we're present and we're watching, and then articulating our needs, right? And whether that means attending a town hall, whether that means going to a campaign office and letting them know why you're there and what you're requiring. But it is also about organizing around community. You know, the reality, Kiki, in politics, and I'm just going to be very straightforward about this, is that the constituencies that get attention are the big check writers and

• 43:32Speaker 01

  the constituencies, or the constituencies that turn out in big numbers to vote.

• 43:36Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  "Oh, they vote, I better go there and listen to what they're saying." And that's a lot of how this thing works.

• 43:47Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  And so, being present, having town halls, being active in where, in our church, in our, in our, in our community, whatever nonprofit we're associated with, and organizing around what we are demanding of the candidates who are running for office, and then taking a look at what they stand for, and voting consistent with what we need.

• 44:11Keke Palmer?

  What do you think that they can demand from the parties? You know, I ask, because sometimes, you know, we speak about the constituents and different things like that, there can feel like this fragmented, "Let's do the young people, let's take care of who we already have, let's look for the, this group, and that group, and that group," that actually kind of works against the reality that we all having problems with rent, groceries, gas, healthcare, crazy expenses across the board. It affects us all regardless of what subgroup we're a part of. So, when it comes to looking at a party, which, hey, everybody doesn't identify specifically with a party, but we know the name of the game. When it comes to these parties, what can we expect for them when they, when they say "This is our person," and we're out there and we're talking?

• 44:55Keke Palmer?

  How can we, you get what I'm saying, expect them to actually speak to us all?

• 45:01Speaker 01

  I think, right, I think right now, it's important to focus on the candidates, and do they speak to you? And are they reflective of the community that they want to represent? That's where I would put the attention.

• 45:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Because that is how we are going to actually influence how politics moves forward, right? Who are the people in office who reflect our values, who are fighting for our needs, who understand our dreams and our hopes as well as our fears, and stand up for us?

• 45:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Right? I mean, I think it's important to look at candidates and figure out, you know, are they looking in the mirror more than they're looking at the people?

• 45:44Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  I think that's a fair standard.

• 45:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 45:48Speaker 01

  Among many.

• 45:49Keke Palmer?

  During the campaign, you warned people, you know, what you believed another Trump presidency would be like. What of those things that you said, do you believe, came true?

• 46:00Speaker 01

  All of it.

• 46:02Keke Palmer?

  Let's talk about that. And obviously, if there's anything that you feel that you may be wrong about, or that, you know, that you hadn't anticipated, you know, share that, too.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  Well, what I had not anticipated was the capitulation. What I'd not anticipated...

• 46:18Keke Palmer?

  The capitulation.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm going to explain that. The number of powerful people who have stood quietly by in the face of what they know to be corruption and...

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Behavior and approaches that are contrary to the best interests of our country. The powerful people who, you know, bend the knee at the foot of a tyrant. I hadn't anticipated that that was gonna happen to the degree it has. You know, I've come to realize that there are some people, and in particular among some of the most powerful, who are purely transactional, Kiki. Purely transactional. They're not pretending to be guided by what's morally right, or what's value-based, or what's principled. They're in it to get what they can get out of it.

• 47:19Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  They're in it to get theirs. I'm gonna get mine. When it stops producing for me, I'll move on. And that is part of what we have seen, and what I didn't, I didn't see that coming to the extent that we've seen it happen. I have to admit. But that's why I'm also saying about why I think folks should be transactional voters. Get yours.

• 47:42Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Get yours. But don't take yourself out of the game. Don't take yourself out of the game. Because the reality is to be disappointed, which people have a right to be. There are so many failures of the system. There are so many things about the system that have just not produced for people, and that is a fair point. And I'm not asking anybody to overlook that. There are a lot of things that have worked, but there are many things that have not. But in your disappointment, don't take yourself out of the game by not voting, because you're then, you're literally, you're being silenced.

• 48:26Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  And we could, this is not a moment where we can afford to be passive.

• 48:30Keke Palmer?

  I'm wondering if there's a moment in time, because I'm always, because I get so anxious, I started looking at patterns.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:39Keke Palmer?

  You know, and that's across the board in any category in my life. And obviously, politics and government history, you know, there's books on those patterns.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are.

• 48:47Keke Palmer?

  When you think about this time that we're in right now, is there a point of reference that you have for, you know, Americans to look to as towards the outcome that can happen if not, or the outcome that can happen if we do?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  I mean, one of the things I do look at, it's, you know, we don't have time for a long discussion about history, but like, the 1930s. America, you know, we, there was a time where America took ourselves out of a conversation with the rest of the world. We just looked, we looked inwards. It's basically what I have in mind around what we're seeing now is this so-called "America First" approach by this current administration, which is basically to reject the importance of our friends around the world.

• 49:39Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 49:40Speaker 01

  And the Allies, right? And what that means in terms of making America weaker on the global stage. And, you know, you look at it in terms of, for example, the reckless way that this administration is acting around tariffs. And everyone is gonna pay, everyone is paying a price for that.

• 49:57Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  At the grocery store, or wherever. And so, I do see a historical reference to this moment.

• 50:09Keke Palmer?

  Sometimes we get so desensitized by what we see online, too, especially if we walk outside our doors, depending on who you are, where you are, you might not see those atrocities right up close. But what does it mean for us eventually, right? If we don't make this, these actions and these choices, and we're not paying attention, and we're not voting, don't want to make you predict something, because obviously, we're not psychic, but where do you see that heading to the person that says, "Well, I'm not a mother, so maternal healthcare, I'm not, I live in America, it doesn't matter where the war is going, I'm this kind of person, that won't really affect me." What do you say to that person that feels it doesn't affect them?

• 50:54Keke Palmer?

  You know how every episode, I go deep on whatever I can't stop thinking about? Well, lately, it's been my living room. I walked into my local IKEA store last week just to look around and left with a whole new vision for my space. Because here's the thing people don't realize, there are hundreds of new products every season. New colors, new patterns, whole new collections I had never seen before. It's not just about style for me, it's the functionality of it all. I found new storage pieces that solved problems I'd been ignoring for months, plus, some design updates that made my space feel fresh. I feel like every time I go back, there's something new waiting for me. So, if you haven't visited in a while, trust me, go see what's new. Discover what's new at IKEA.

• 51:39Keke Palmer?

  Shop the latest products in-store or online at ikea.us/discovernew. So, here's something that genuinely surprised me. Over 80% of Americans are not getting enough Omega 3s from food alone. 80%. That means most of us are walking around with a gap in our nutrition and don't even realize it. That's where Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega Soft Gels come in. EPA and DHA Omega 3s support your heart, your brain, your immune system, your eyes, your mood. These are foundational nutrients that show up everywhere in your body, doing important work, and most of us are just not getting enough.

• 52:21Keke Palmer?

  And before you say, "Fish oil, no thank you," let me stop you. Nordic Naturals has a clean lemon taste. Plus, every batch is thoroughly tested for purity, potency, and freshness to meet strict international quality standards. Clean ingredients, no drama. Use promo code NORDIC, N-O-R-D-I-C, for 15% off your next order at Nordic.com, and discover the power of Omega 3 with Nordic Naturals, the number one selling Omega 3 brand in the U.S. Supplements are not evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent diseases.

• 53:02Speaker 01

  Well, I can't tell anybody how they feel. I'm not gonna do that. But I will say this, there are a lot of people who are suffering. And even for that person, whoever they may be, I have to believe that that person cares about how their neighbor is doing.

• 53:17Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Even if they feel they're okay.

• 53:21Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  And, um, and out of, you know, out of care and concern for how your neighbor is doing, that should compel us to know that what's happening right now is not good. And we have to, we have to care about community and neighbors, and the neighbor-to-neighbor approach is probably one of the things that might be missing right now. I do fear that we've reached a point where there's so much distrust, not only of government and systems, but the distrust that Americans have in each other right now.

• 53:59Keke Palmer?

  It's almost like nobody watched Mr. Rogers, and they missed the whole neighbor's bit.

• 54:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:05Keke Palmer?

  They really just said, "To hell with them."

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we have the power to reclaim that. And I think it is in all of us. I think sometimes people might feel like, "I, what does it matter? I don't think I can make a difference." And I would say, don't let anything that you are feeling or seeing convince you of that.

• 54:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Because there is so much power, even in that neighbor-to-neighbor approach. Even, I mean, here's an example. If you're about to do a Costco run, and you know you've got a neighbor who's a single father or a single mother, and just calling them up to say, "Hey, I'm about to go to Costco, can I pick up anything for you?" It's about the strength of community and that we each have to lift someone up. It doesn't have to be a whole lot of people.

• 54:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Each one lift one.

• 54:55Keke Palmer?

  I want to talk a little bit about, you know, what happened with, you know, CNN, MSNBC, and Politico being barred from the White House. Obviously, there's some federal judge that has temporarily ordered their access restored. But as someone who's in the media, as myself, I think about the public's ability to hear questions asked openly. So what does this dispute mean, you know, for the public's right to know what the government is doing?

• 55:21Speaker 01

  I think it is, first of all, it shows the extent to which the current occupant of the White House has such a fragile ego, that he can't, as President of the United States, tolerate major news outlets listening to what he's saying and watch what he's doing.

• 55:46Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  If you can't stand people to watch what you're doing and listen to what you're saying, one has to ask, "What are you doing?"

• 55:54Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Right? And so, there is that. It is clear that he is afraid that the American people, through journalists and the media, will see too much to know the incompetence, the cruelty, and the corruption that is coming out of that administration. And that scares them. So what's the best way to convince people that everything is okay? Don't let them know what's going on. And that is then, so bar the media. And...

• 56:33Speaker 01

  You know, you're in the wrong place. If you want to do things in secret, then why don't you just leave the White House?

• 56:45Keke Palmer?

  Democrats often talk about the black vote. As if black women, men, younger voters, parents and business owners, all want the same thing. Where has the party mistaken shared identity for guaranteed political loyalty? If you feel that, you know, don't want to put words in your mouth.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I think that there, the party, I mean, I think that there are people who, who do not understand, there are some people who do not understand the diversity within groups. And that there may be shared experiences, but there are also, there's also diversity of experiences and values and priorities. And to pigeonhole any one group of people is irresponsible and it is counterproductive.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  I think that, look, the, there are people who have taken the black vote for granted. Again, back to my earlier point. Who assume, okay, they're going to vote because they are honoring the ancestors. They know that the people fought and died for the right to vote. And so they're going to vote based on loyalty to the, to, to what the, the fight for democracy.

• 58:03Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Right?

• 58:04Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  And I think there are people who take that for granted, that black folks are going to vote, without necessarily taking it to the next step and ask, but what do they need? What do they want?

• 58:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 58:16Speaker 01

  I think that, that does take place.

• 58:17Keke Palmer?

  I think that's why both of the things, that can make it difficult for people to say, "My candidate," but that's also probably your point about why you should focus on your candidate, that person.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:28Keke Palmer?

  You can acknowledge their party, but also what are they speaking to?

• 58:31Speaker 01

  But that's right.

• 58:32Keke Palmer?

  Irregardless, you know, of that, I imagine.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  But, but let me, let me do say, I will say this.

• 58:38Keke Palmer?

  Please, please.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  That I, I don't see many examples of those who are not Democrats willing, in this election cycle, to stand up.

• 58:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  And, and be honest about the corruption we are seeing.

• 58:52Keke Palmer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  And, and be willing to stand up in, in, in defense of, of the voice of the people and, and integrity and, and what is right.

• 59:04Keke Palmer?

  Do you think that's been externalized or expressed to the public in a way that they feel?

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, you can see it, you can look at, there are various races where there are Republicans who, who still deny that we won in 2020.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there are many examples of it. And I think that's, and you're not, you know, Democrats aren't saying that. Because, because, you know why? Because every court that, that issue was brought before said that that is false, that the election had integrity and that we won.

• 59:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:44Keke Palmer?

  What do you think, going back to what we're talking about, the idea around people assuming all groups are monolith, when we think about all the American people?

• 59:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:52Keke Palmer?

  Black, white, gay, straight, Asian, Latinx, I mean, we, we have such beautiful diversity in our country.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Keke Palmer?

  What do you think, Madam Vice President, is what uniquely connects to us all? What are the things?

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Our, our love of freedom.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  The priority we place around human dignity.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  The desire we each have to be treated as equal. I think we have all that in common. We have in common the fact that we want our children and our babies to be healthy and to have access to the resources that will allow them to thrive. We want that our elderly relatives will have the health care that they need so that as they grow old and may become sick, that they are treated with the dignity that they so rightly deserve and have earned.

• 1:01:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  I think all of those things, we all have in common. The vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. And it is a shame that right now, we have powerful forces that are spending full time trying to divide the American people, trying to have Americans point their finger at each other? Instead of what we know we can do collectively?

• 1:01:24Keke Palmer?

  And also create, point their fingers at each other and create a scenario where it actually becomes, people feel like, well, I've got to protect mine.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:34Keke Palmer?

  You know, it's also created this, this-

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Tribalism.

• 1:01:37Keke Palmer?

  Right. You know, where it becomes, you know?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Well, because, because, you know, it's called a zero-sum game, right? Which is some people push the idea that if you benefit, I lose.

• 1:01:48Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  If you get more, that means you're taking from me and I get less.

• 1:01:52Keke Palmer?

  I mean, and that's the whole thing that racism is standing on, when the reality is, is none of us are getting anything good.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Well-

• 1:01:58Keke Palmer?

  None of us is getting everything we want. But if I treat this group worse than you, then you will at least feel you're not being treated as badly as them.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  That's exactly right. You're exactly right. That it is literally like, so, saying, "Well, you may be suffering, but at least you're not suffering as bad as they are, so you must be okay." It is a warped way of thinking and we cannot absorb that way of thinking. Right? We, and we have to also recognize that when any one of us benefits by smart public policy, we all benefit from it. We all benefit from it. And, yeah, I think there's a sickness at play to, to suggest, more than ever, that if some people are getting, it's taking away from you.

• 1:02:48Keke Palmer?

  What makes someone feel, and I think anybody that is in a leadership position would take something from this. What makes someone feel that their leader understands their life beyond just agreeing with their policies or what they stand for? What, what would you say to people who understand your policies, but aren't exactly sure they trust you?

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  You have to earn trust. It has to be earned. No one, especially an elected leader, should expect, without earning, trust. And there's something, we talked about it earlier. I think it is important that a leader have, as part of their character,

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  that they, they have empathy. Right? And empathy is not necessarily going to come for some people naturally, but it will come if you have enough humility to understand that you should be curious about how other people are doing. And then take it upon yourself to figure out how they're doing. Right?

• 1:04:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  And a good leader does that. Either they know because they have a similar experience, or they understand that their experience is not the only experience.

• 1:04:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  And they should be curious to, to, to want to know how other people are doing and then put the work into finding out. You know, I, in many of my offices, I would say to my team, if they'd be gathered in front of my desk talking about policy, and I'd say, "Okay, let's look around the room and tell me who's not in the room." And by that, I don't just mean who is staffing at the time, but who's not in the rooms? When we are thinking about how this policy will impact people, have we thought about everyone? And I want you to take, go through that exercise before determining this might be the right way to go.

• 1:04:58Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:04:59Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  So some level of curiosity and concern about the well-being of other people, including who's not in the room.

• 1:05:05Keke Palmer?

  There's a bunch of corporations that need that.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Yes, I know.

• 1:05:09Keke Palmer?

  Child. Sometimes, this is something I really want to talk to you about, is because sometimes the things you learn to get into the rooms that weren't built for you, like code-switching, learning corporate language, can also make people from your community feel like they don't relate to you. I want to know how difficult it was for you to see that disconnect from some of the very things you had to learn to get there.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  You know, I think that we still have a lot of work to do, especially for those who are the first.

• 1:05:44Speaker 01

  You know, I've been the first in almost every elected office I've had. And there's something about being the first, which means, one, you're going to be in many rooms, to your point, where the, you're the only one like you. The only one who looks like you, the only one who has had your experience. And in those rooms, it is really important to know that there are a whole lot of people who are proud that you are in that room and want you to be chin up, shoulders back, representing the voices of all those who got you there. Right? And that's the duty that comes with it.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  And, and, which includes then, the duty of being in that room and not feeling alone, so that you feel you got to be quiet. Because that can happen in that dynamic. So it's really important to hold on to all the people that walk in that room with you, even if you can't see them at the moment. It's, you know, it, I, I say about being the first and breaking barriers, you know, breaking barriers, it's not like you just start on one side of the barrier and you end up on the other.

• 1:06:54Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  There's breaking involved. And when you break things, you get cut. When you break things, you bleed.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  But let me tell you, it'll be worth it every time. But it is not without pain. It is not without pain.

• 1:07:13Keke Palmer?

  I wonder how that played into people's interpretation of your joy. And I feel like most of my life, I learned joy as a sense of rebellion.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Keke Palmer?

  It wasn't until I got older and, you know, I shared a lot of that, you know, in my TED Talk around the fact that I, my humanity wasn't often allowed to breathe.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Keke Palmer?

  I wasn't allowed to be angry.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Keke Palmer?

  I wasn't allowed to be irritated. I always had to chin up, be happy, and before I knew it, I was, right? I think about you, every situation, every moment of a smile, every moment of joy in the midst of, yes, a world where we should be very angry, especially in a person in your position, is weaponized against you. Every acknowledgement to a certain group is pandering. You can't even be happy with yourself, press.

• 1:08:06Keke Palmer?

  You know?

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Oh, but I am.

• 1:08:09Keke Palmer?

  You know what I'm saying? How much of that is you fighting for your right? Or fighting against what's being projected upon you? How do you balance between who Madam VP gets to be as a human and who she has to show up as? And what all comes with that?

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  It can be difficult. It can be very difficult, Kiki. I mean, you know, I'm aware of the, whatever the memes are about, you know, my laugh. Well, look, I was raised in a family that included very powerful women

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  who laughed from their bellies. And powerful, I mean, they were powerful in their space. They were powerful in their family, in their community. Not necessarily titles and money. But you understand my point.

• 1:09:01Keke Palmer?

  Absolutely.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  And they, and would sit around the kitchen table with their coffee, laughing, loud laughs. And I'm, I, and that's how I laugh. And the people that I respected laughed the same way. And everybody else, you know what they can do.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  You know, there's, you, I think it's really, it is, it is an attempt. Those who tried to take your joy are trying to make you weak. And I, that, that's where my fight comes in. I know what you're trying to do. You're not going to take my joy. Right? You cannot, there's nothing you can do to me that will take my joy. You are not that powerful.

• 1:10:02Keke Palmer?

  You're very brave.

• 1:10:09Speaker 01

  We all are, sweetheart.

• 1:10:11Keke Palmer?

  No, but it's important to say because bravery doesn't mean everything goes your way.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:18Keke Palmer?

  It doesn't mean everybody likes you. It doesn't mean that everything is in alignment. It means that you keep going and that you remain who you are in your core, despite what people drag you through.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:32Keke Palmer?

  And I respect that immensely. I could talk to you literally so much, but I have to let you go and I respect your time. But I just want you to know that that, that is meaningful to me. And I appreciate you for sitting down and talking to me and all the people that are watching and, you know, millennials, sometimes we feel like the middle child, right? Because we, we, we know what it's like to be completely idealistic. But now so many of us are in the position of being leaders in whatever our perspective feels are.

• 1:10:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:10:59Keke Palmer?

  And we're like, you know, when y'all gonna talk to us? Like, when is it our time to step in and to be a part of X, Y, and Z? And so I just appreciate you for taking the opportunity to talk. And a lot of different people watch our show, um, watch the podcast. But it means so much to me in many different ways. And I just want to say thank you for the time and for the conversation and for your bravery and your courage. Because it goes without saying. It really does. So, thank you so much.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Thank you, thank you.

• 1:11:29Keke Palmer?

  Appreciate you.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  I appreciate you. I really do.

• 1:11:35Keke Palmer?

  Before I really let you out of here, are you ready for presidency?

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Oh, girl, come on.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Oh, just to get a, just to get a

• 1:11:45Keke Palmer?

  No, you ain't getting, no, no, you're not getting out of here. We have to know this. You know that people want to know. Are we going to get another moment to see?

• 1:11:52Speaker 01

  I haven't decided. I haven't decided yet. I will. I promise.

• 1:11:56Keke Palmer?

  I'm excited. We'll be waiting to hear.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  But the midterms, the midterms, the midterms.

• 1:12:00Keke Palmer?

  Okay, the midterms.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  28 doesn't matter. If we don't do 26 right. It's right in front of us.

• 1:12:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, focus on the present.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Please.

• 1:12:12Keke Palmer?

  Baby, that was Madam Vice President Kamala Harris. As a mother, I don't experience these issues as political talking points. They show up in what it costs to raise a child, whether the families are healthy and safe, whether our rights are protected, and what kind of country my son is going to inherit. And I know our audience is in a monolith. We don't all agree. And we certainly don't all need the same things. But we deserve leaders who understand our lives, tell us the truth, and are clear about what they can actually deliver on. Maybe choosing to believe doesn't mean giving any politician or political party blind faith. Maybe it means continuing to ask harder questions, demanding better answers, and figuring out

• 1:12:56Keke Palmer?

  where our own power is in all of it. And as for what's next for Madam VP, I guess we'll see. Until next time. Baby, this is Keke Palmer.