"Greatest Fight In NBA History" - Metta World Peace OPENS UP On Palace Brawl, Breaking Jordan’s Ribs | PBD Podcast | Ep. 600

NBA champion Metta Sandiford-Artest (Ron Artest) joins Patrick Bet-David for a powerful sit-down on his Lakers legacy, defending Kobe, MJ, and LeBron, the Malice at the Palace, his Knicks coaching dream, and how American basketball lost its edge. ------ Ⓜ️ CONNECT WITH METTA ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/3HUMjAX 👔 ARTEST MANAGEMENT GROUP: https://bit.ly/4n0DmWQ 📱 MINNECT 2025 CONTEST - REGISTER TODAY: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 🎫 THE VAULT 2025 | SEPT 8TH - 11TH | THE GAYLORD PALMS | ORLANDO, FL: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4dJlmfL⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4dJlmfL 🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4jYg3Lh⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4jYg3Lh 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3OExClZ 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

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• 0:56Adam Sosnick?

  Six-six senior from LaSalle Academy in New York City. He's headed to St. John's.

• 1:01Patrick Bet-David?

  I remember being at the game. Kobe goes 6'4", 24. He's not having a good game. Second half starts, and then all of a sudden he starts passing it to running. You hit that one three.

• 1:11Adam Sosnick?

  Artest, that's a three.

• 1:16Adam Sosnick?

  Lakers by six with a minute to play.

• 1:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Talk about a game. Game seven against the Celtics, right? I mean, that was sick.

• 1:24Speaker 04

  It was incredible. I mean, he never passed me the ball. And he passed me the ball. Kobe passed me the ball.

• 1:31Patrick Bet-David?

  You've guarded Kobe. You've guarded LeBron. And you've guarded Michael. How different are they?

• 1:36Speaker 04

  You know, Kobe's definitely more similar to MJ. But I think LeBron, he brought something totally different to the table.

• 1:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Malice at the Palace. They never allowed glass drinks because of that game.

• 1:47Speaker 04

  Alcohol stops in the fourth. I think now it stops in the fourth quarter.

• 1:49Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't even think the foul was that big of a foul, but just kind of give us your commentary.

• 1:53Speaker 04

  But I know what happened. Like, I've never given up free layups.

• 1:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Is there anything that maybe he got an award that you didn't get? Or you got an award?

• 2:00Speaker 04

  I think the Defensive Player of the Year. This is legacy right here. So this is what I think it is. I am done. That was probably the worst day of my life. So you're saying you were already in therapy prior to that fight? I had anger management problems, as we all know. So we could do a whole stand-up show, and this is honestly brought to you by ValueTainment.

• 2:37Speaker 05

  Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I ever signs, right here.

• 2:45Patrick Bet-David?

  You are a one of one? My son's right there.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  I don't think I've ever said this before.

• 2:54Patrick Bet-David?

  That's cool. So we got a special podcast here, man. We got the one and only Metta World piece in the house. I had to DM you. I'm like, hey, I want to do a podcast. And then you responded back and then, you know, now we're sitting here together.

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Couldn't believe it. I mean, I never met you before. I've watched your podcast. I've watched a lot of them. I'm not gonna say all of them, but definitely a lot of them. I just came back from the US and Saudi investment forum where I'm typically the only athlete in these rooms. Like when I go out to these places, you know, it was super tight security. So I'm thinking, I said, I wonder if he saw, cause I know you're a Republican, right? I know about you. And so I said, man, I wonder if he saw me with some of his friends. Like, why do he, is he interested in the US Saudi investment forum?

• 3:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So you thought that was the reason?

• 3:41Speaker 04

  I thought, yeah, I thought you saw it because literally when I got home, then I got your DM. So I didn't, I didn't know why. He was like, you're a Laker fan. So, oh, he's a Laker fan. And then I, and then I was like, after your interview with Terrence, I DM'd Terrence, the best interview I've seen in my life. That's my favorite interview I've ever seen, if I'm not mistaken.

• 3:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Terrence Howard.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  The Terrence Howard interview was incredible. And then I DM'd Terrence. I said, I need to take, I was telling my family, I need to take you to lunch. Like he, I'm not gonna say changed my life, but he added a few things to how I view the world.

• 4:13Patrick Bet-David?

  He is so interesting. And I think the word misunderstood is very good for him, but he is so interesting. I, I would say until today, I'm registered independent. Of course, I've been a Trump supporter for a few years. But when, you know, it's funny, when, when, when I DM'd you, I'm having a conversation. Your name comes up. Like dude, like, you know, I remember being at the game, game seven, okay?

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 4:34Patrick Bet-David?

  So I'm at the game, I take my passport, row 18, we're there. Kobe goes 6'4", 24. He's not having a good game. This is the only game I've gone where in the first half, we're sitting there. Me and Dudley look at each other. We're not even getting up. The level of anxiety is so high. I said, "Do you want to grab?" He says, "I don't want nothing. I can't even move." We sit still and then second half starts and then Kobe's just nothing. And then all of a sudden, he starts passing it to, you know, and then, you know, he's doing his thing and then you hit that one three and then the game, I mean, talk about a game, game seven against the Celtics, right? I mean, that was sick.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  It was incredible. I mean, Derek Fisher changed the game there. So Derek Fisher, he was down 13 in the third quarter. So now, you know, game seven at home, down 13, we're looking at the shot clock. This is my first time in the finals and I'm just like, okay, there's doubt creeping in because it's like, you know, I've never been here before. And Derek Fisher says, "Hey, guys, pick your head up." He says, "Where would you rather be right now?" He comes and he opens his arms. He says, "Down 13 in a game seven at home, where would you rather be?" And then that.

• 5:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he really say this?

• 5:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he say that halftime in the locker room or when did he say that?

• 5:58Speaker 04

  In the third quarter because we was on the bench. We was down. Time was, it was a timeout. It was getting closer to the end. So he said that maybe at the six minute mark in the third quarter?

• 6:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this Phil is letting Derek speak or Derek is just jumping in and saying this?

• 6:12Speaker 04

  So typically when they call a timeout, the coaches go to the free throw line, extend it.

• 6:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  And then the players go to the bench first.

• 6:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 6:17Speaker 04

  So you got, you got like maybe 20, 30 seconds.

• 6:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh shit, 20, 30 seconds.

• 6:21Speaker 04

  For a leader to come in there and then Derek, he is such a leader. Turn, because I, I didn't believe in myself at that moment in time. I believed in my heart, but I didn't know what's going to happen because we're 13 points against the Celtics? That's devastating. But we just kept inching away and we pulled it out. We just wore them out.

• 6:45Patrick Bet-David?

  So and then second half, when you're coming out like, what, what happened? Because you played so loose. You were just like, give me the ball. I want to, I want to. And that's not the profile though. That's Kobe's job. That's, you know, Powell's job. And then you all of a sudden became the aggressor.

• 6:57Speaker 04

  Well, you know, interesting, well, when I played. Until I got with the Lakers, I was a go-to guy. I was always the go-to guy. I mean, the year before that, I averaged 25 against the Lakers.

• 7:08Patrick Bet-David?

  I remember that.

• 7:08Speaker 04

  You know, if you look at Yao Ming was on that team with the Rockets. So from that, so from that perspective, I've been in this situation for my whole life. But when you get with Kobe, you become a role player. So I was, I became a role player in my prime. So imagine right now today, if you're a role player in your prime, you know how much money you leave on the table? By saying, instead of averaging 20, I'm going to average 7.

• 7:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Costs you some money, right? Is it fair to say it costs you?

• 7:34Speaker 04

  Well, going to the Lakers, um, I was worth more than $6 million a year.

• 7:41Patrick Bet-David?

  For sure.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  You know what I mean?

• 7:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Especially after you came off of 24 and a half games to see, you know, points a game.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Definitely worth more than, so I had to just deal with it. It was hard. It was the, it was one of the hardest things I had to deal with.

• 7:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That game you, you played against Kobe, where he's going like this, you know, and you know, you know what I'm saying? He's going like this, he's going like this, and you tell him to referee, dude, he hit me, he elbowed me, right? You know which one I'm talking about?

• 8:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:04Patrick Bet-David?

  I watched Kobe go after guys and recruit the guys that were not afraid of him, right? You, Barnes, a couple of other guys that he wanted to, Jordan did this as well with Rodman and a few other guys that he went after.

• 8:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Did, did he, did he ever call you, try to recruit you or no?

• 8:20Speaker 04

  No, he actually didn't, you know, because Kobe's, he's probably going to send his soldiers, which is the Lakers organization. The Lakers called me at 12:01, so on, on, on June 30th. So that's when the free agency opened. So I did, I did not expect that call at 12:01. I was in L.A. at the SLS Hotel, about to go out with my friends. I get a call, we pull over, and then my agent, David Baumann, says, "The Lakers want to speak to you." Pardon my French, but my, my first reaction was, for fucking what? Because I'm like, they just beat us, like, one, I don't ever think I'm going to play for the Lakers. Two, I'm super competitive, and I'm like, I don't want to speak to the Lakers.

• 9:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  He said, "They want you, they want, they want you on their team." So then I'm like, I was still a little bit defensive, but then I was like, hold on a second, he, he just say. So now all the stuff is going on in my head. I meet with Dr. Bust the next morning. And he was like, you know, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be able to pay you what you're worth, but we really want you on this team.

• 9:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Straight up, he says that opening line.

• 9:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's his open line. I said, damn, Dr. Buss, Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant. I love Kobe Bryant. I love Kobe.

• 9:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you, but did you love him then, when you're, well, like, when you're playing against him?

• 9:33Speaker 04

  No, not when I'm playing against him, no. When I'm playing against him, I don't like, R.I.P. Kobe Bryant. When I'm playing against him, no. But when I'm, when I'm not playing against Kobe, I love Kobe, you know?

• 9:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Totally. I fully understand.

• 9:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I love Kobe.

• 9:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So he tells you, he says, so I can't pay you what you're worth, and he's the one negotiating the deal. Who else is, is Mitch Cupc checked in the room?

• 9:53Speaker 04

  Just me and Buss.

• 9:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Nobody else is in the room?

• 9:55Speaker 04

  Nobody.

• 9:56Patrick Bet-David?

  How long was that meeting?

• 9:56Speaker 04

  We went to the W Hotel. We sat at the bar, the Westwood W Hotel, sat at the bar. We didn't drink any alcohol. I might have ordered avocado toast, and that was it. We just talked. Maybe we didn't even order anything. We talked, and that was it. I was like, yep, so just send me the contract. I'll just, I'll just sign it.

• 10:14Patrick Bet-David?

  And he told you the number then? Did he kind of say?

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, he said, only the mid, mid-level.

• 10:18Adam Sosnick?

  Mid-level exception.

• 10:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, mid-level exception.

• 10:20Adam Sosnick?

  Which usually is five, six million in that category. But you could have been worth 10, 20 million, whatever the contract's worth.

• 10:25Speaker 04

  At that time, it was 12, 15. You know, being a number one guy in a playoff, you know, that's like a 12 to 15.

• 10:32Adam Sosnick?

  So you're leaving at least 10, 20 million bucks on the table.

• 10:34Speaker 04

  I left a lot of money on the table.

• 10:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Worth it, though, till today?

• 10:37Speaker 04

  Um, it, it's worth it. It's definitely worth it, for sure, because I learned so much about myself. I learned that I could overcome adversity. You know, you're thinking about your check. Oh, not only the money, that's one piece, but the other piece is you're only averaging 6.9 points. You see?

• 10:55Patrick Bet-David?

  That's tough.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  Your ego, that's going from where you were in your prime. So, and keep in mind, every time Kobe didn't play, in my first stint with the Lakers, I was averaging 18.9. I, I had to tally it up myself, because I had to reassure that I was still pretty good. I was having doubt, you know, when you're not shooting the ball year after year after year. You're just a role player in the corner. And when Kobe didn't play, like, you'll see a game with the Spurs, where it was like Kawhi and whoever else was on that team, you'll see me playing very well at 26. So I can still play, but when Kobe comes back... Yeah, exactly.

• 11:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Minutes away.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, you get two shots, maybe four, maybe five.

• 11:33Patrick Bet-David?

  What was your relationship? Because I mean, the one thing that's very interesting with you is, you know, there's only a few names, stars that people know. You're not a regular player. You were 04 Defensive Player of the Year, right? You're, you know, you got 19 years you played in the NBA, you know, with six teams and you're gonna go down as arguably one of the greatest defenders of all time. You know, perimeter defense, you were just, you were ridiculous. Playing against you was annoying, right? I bet guys probably didn't want to go up against you.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, definitely not.

• 12:03Patrick Bet-David?

  But you defended, you played, you defended against Michael, against Kobe and against LeBron, right? You played defense. That's not a lot of people that can say that. It's, there's a lot of people that did, but not defending them, right? Where you got defending all three of them. So Kobe as a teammate, at that time when you come in, is he lifting you up? Is he punking you? Is he talking shit? Is he saying, "Let's go have dinner"? Is he asking you how's family, how's everything? What, what is his mentality like on? Is he saying, "Hey, we whooped your ass, now you're here, you know, you came from the Rockets here"? What is he telling you now that you're his teammate?

• 12:38Speaker 04

  "Let's have a good practice. Let's get ready to win a championship." There's not a lot of banter going back and forth for Kobe. You know, we didn't have a relationship and Kobe is very aware. He, he gotta know, "I can't, I can't wait to get to practice." Because he knows me. He, he knows I got that fire, that's why he brought me. He has to know that I'm bringing it, the first possession of our first practice. So our first practice, I'm sure he couldn't wait and I couldn't wait. Now I got him and he got me every day for two hours or three hours in training camp. So the first practice, you know, we're going against each other. We're not, we're not in a starting group yet,

• 13:20Speaker 04

  so, you know, we couldn't wait. Now, he played very well. Well, I must say, he played very well, but I was also very physical. If that makes sense, I was on him. Now, he scored, but it was definitely something to watch.

• 13:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Was there friction, like, in practice with the two of you or no?

• 13:36Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 13:37Patrick Bet-David?

  But was there friction, like, you know, you hear stories about Michael and Steve Kerr?

• 13:40Speaker 04

  No.

• 13:41Patrick Bet-David?

  That kind of friction, or no, or Samaki Walker, I think Walker and Kobe had an issue one time on the bus. I don't know if you've heard that story before.

• 13:47Speaker 04

  No, I didn't hear it.

• 13:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Nothing like that?

• 13:48Speaker 04

  It was nothing like we were about to fight.

• 13:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 13:50Speaker 04

  But it was definitely, uh, very aggressive. Or it was very aggressive, but not, well, we did have one incident where, um, Kobe's playing very well. He was getting under my skin, Phil Jackson was getting under my skin. And then I was telling the team, I said, you know, last year, if Yao Ming didn't break his foot, I said, we would have beat all of y'all, right? And then Phil was like, calm down, Ronnie, and I'm like, we not calming down until I say we calm. That's all, I was just disrupting.

• 14:19Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying this to Phil Jackson?

• 14:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Phil, but Phil, Phil could take heat, because Phil give heat, by the way. Phil gives heat, and he can take it. One of the few coaches that can take it, a lot of coaches can't take what Phil could take.

• 14:31Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're saying that, so he says, calm down, Ronnie, what is Kobe saying?

• 14:34Speaker 04

  Kobe's just watching, because I, because so I, I think what was happening too, Kobe wanted, I, I think I came to practice one day, but I wasn't as.

• 14:41Patrick Bet-David?

  What year is this, what's, what's the?

• 14:42Speaker 04

  This is 2010.

• 14:43Patrick Bet-David?

  I want to know who the roster is, keep going, I'm listening.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  Yes, I think like I came to practice, but maybe I wasn't as intense, and I think Kobe wanted to push my button, so, because Kobe, I seen him snickering in the back when I was going at Phil, and he was like.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  So I think Kobe was like actually.

• 14:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Enjoying the process.

• 14:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, enjoying, enjoying the process, but that was the only day where like, you know, where we addressed, I just got, I just came from the Rockets and now I'm here. We never talked about that, they beat us, but we was the only team to take them to seven. They went through everybody that year. You know, the, the championship game was the Rockets versus the Lakers, basically, that year.

• 15:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, listen, if it was a different story, yeah. So you're saying this to Phil, you're saying Phil also knows how to bring the heat.

• 15:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, Phil brings heat.

• 15:24Patrick Bet-David?

  I talked to Shaq one time, uh, uh, where, you know, Shaq and Kobe, I'm asking both of them about, uh, uh, the relationship with Phil. And there's a story once I read about the fact that Shaq sat both of them down and said, you guys think you guys got a big ego? I got a bigger ego than both of you guys have combined, right? Saying something like that, now whether that happened or not, who knows? What, what was different about his style of leadership than other coaches you had?

• 15:49Speaker 04

  You know, Phil. But he, I mean, he's a energy guy. He's a Buddhist, he's Zen master. He's an energy guy. And I think a lot of the times, he's just, he's just, um, he's nurturing your energy. He's centering your energy. You know, uh, he, he has a plate, a triangle, but the triangle is nothing but a set. The triangle is nothing but staying in your spot, and he, he's on, you see, Phil, he's just sitting there the whole time. Where other coaches are like, hey, go here, go here, go here. So Phil's letting you get out of your own issues, he's letting you solve your own problems.

• 16:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, he, he wasn't the guy that would say, time out, let's go, boom, boom. No. And they would say, you'd watch the game, and y- y- y- the opposition would score six points, back to back to back.

• 16:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:34Patrick Bet-David?

  And you would hear, uh, uh, what's his name, the old guy, Chick Hearn. You know, or whoever it was, Stu Lance, and, cause I, I used to live in LA, so I would

• 16:41Speaker 04

  Broadcasters.

• 16:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Broadcasters, yeah.

• 16:43Speaker 04

  Call their commentator.

• 16:43Patrick Bet-David?

  And he would say, Phil is not even getting up. Just sit there and just watch, and is he like, is he even thinking about it? He would let you fail.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  Yes. He'll sit there, and you know what, if you lost by thirty, go into the locker room, and we'll go back to practice. But he's kind of putting that accountability on you. Which is really unique.

• 17:03Patrick Bet-David?

  How would he do it? Would he say, hey, so how do you, w- w- would he go in the locker room and say, so how do you guys feel about the loss? So what do you think happened? Or was it kind of like, alright guys, we'll see you at practice tomorrow? What, what was?

• 17:13Speaker 04

  I'm not gonna say he was like babying us, but he definitely was pointing out the mistakes, but he was always trying to strengthen our center.

• 17:21Patrick Bet-David?

  How do we do?

• 17:22Speaker 04

  So we meditate, turn off all the lights, bring sage in the locker room. You know, um, center breathe together. You know, sit up straight in your chair, close your eyes, relax your jaws, relax your... So he was like always empowering you. He wasn't beating you down. With the exception of, he'll say little things to get under, he has something for everybody where he can get under your skin.

• 17:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Like what? Like, give me an example.

• 17:45Speaker 04

  He called me cement feet. When he called me cement feet, that made me upset.

• 17:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Cement feet?

• 17:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, he used to call, I had these big shoes, I had a deal with another company. Not, not a Nike, not a Adidas, I had another company, and they were big. But I did it because it was, it was a deal, so I just signed a contract with the shoes. And yeah, it wasn't the greatest looking shoes.

• 18:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Cement feet?

• 18:03Speaker 04

  So I'm, you know, Kobe's playing in Nikes. I'm playing in these big blocks.

• 18:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Which one is it?

• 18:09Speaker 04

  The ones in the championship. I got, I got them on in the finals.

• 18:11Patrick Bet-David?

  So the one you won in, you wore the cement feet in game seven?

• 18:15Speaker 04

  Cement feet was definitely in game seven, for sure.

• 18:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh shit.

• 18:19Speaker 04

  It's not these ones. These are some other ones I had throughout the years. When's the last time? Oh, there they go, right there.

• 18:26Patrick Bet-David?

  That's the one? Who was the shoe company?

• 18:29Speaker 04

  It was a company out of China, um, called Peak. They shouldn't have let me design my own shoe. I couldn't believe they didn't let me design my own shoe, but it's another story.

• 18:38Patrick Bet-David?

  So if he called you cement feet, what did he call the other guys?

• 18:40Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, I, I, I forget what he had for the other guy. He had something for Kobe too.

• 18:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 18:45Speaker 04

  100%.

• 18:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So would he try, would he get under Kobe's skin, or he couldn't get under Kobe's skin?

• 18:49Speaker 04

  Kobe, he'll leave him on the bench a little longer, you know? Like, he didn't have to say anything. It was like, this is your punishment. An extra 30 seconds, minute on the bench. And I don't know why he would do it, but you know Kobe's like, Kobe looking down at Phil with that, you know, that. Laser eyes. That face, you know, that, that in the, his, his mouth, this part turned to a bear, like a bear. Mamba. This part turned to the mamba and Phil's just like, eh, you know, you're gonna stay there. I know you're supposed to check it now, but we're gonna give you three more minutes over there and have Kobe be pissed.

• 19:22Patrick Bet-David?

  What happened with Sasha Vujacic? What, was there a fight between him and Kobe? Like, one thing.

• 19:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, definitely.

• 19:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Cause Kobe was saying something and he's elbowing him and Sasha's got, I've seen that clip. I don't know where that clip is.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, Sasha, cause Sasha is a strong person. Like, that whole team was full of dogs. It reminded me of Indiana team. So, everybody on that team was, you know, pretty much psycho. Like Sasha, Bynum, me, you know, Powell's a nice guy, but Powell can get really aggressive and into it. You could see it in his face. You know, obviously Lamar and Josh Powell, people that you don't see a lot.

• 19:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 19:57Speaker 04

  Shannon Brown.

• 19:58Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right. Shannon Brown.

• 19:59Speaker 04

  Luke Walton.

• 20:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Luke Walton.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  Fisher, Fisher's different. Fisher's not gonna be rah rah, but Fisher's not playing no games, you know? He's a little bit different. So Sasha, you say something to Sasha, he's bringing, he's, he's coming right back at you. He don't care who it is. You know Sasha's got a lot of heart. Um, Adam Morrison, Adam Morrison's probably the most-

• 20:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Morrison Gonzaga.

• 20:18Speaker 04

  The most cycle probably.

• 20:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Really, seriously?

• 20:20Speaker 04

  He ain't taking no game. Adam Morrison's not playing any games.

• 20:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Seriously?

• 20:24Speaker 04

  Oh, one hundred percent. Adam Morrison not playing no games.

• 20:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you joking?

• 20:27Speaker 04

  Nah, Adam is actually, he should have, if it wasn't for those injuries, he was so good in practice. But you had me, you had Kobe, with his injuries, if he doesn't get injured, you're talking about All-Star multiple times.

• 20:39Patrick Bet-David?

  No shit.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 20:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow, because you-

• 20:42Speaker 04

  Incredible.

• 20:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you hear stories, he, he's on the, I mean-

• 20:45Speaker 04

  You seen him in college?

• 20:46Adam Sosnick?

  He was college player of the year, I want to say it's incredible.

• 20:48Patrick Bet-David?

  He was, he was insane in college.

• 20:49Speaker 04

  He, he was really good.

• 20:50Adam Sosnick?

  I wanted to know one thing about Phil. When's the last time you interacted or even saw Phil Jackson?

• 20:55Speaker 04

  I, I was on the phone with Phil last year when I went to go visit Carlisle, Indiana Pacers.

• 21:01Adam Sosnick?

  Rick Carlisle, yeah.

• 21:02Speaker 04

  And, uh, he had Phil on the phone. That's the last time I spoke to Phil and I, and I said, hey Phil. But I would also call Phil when I needed like coaching advice, because I'm a coach, so when I was coaching my high school girls or my college girls, I would call Phil and just ask him about different things, if I'm thinking about it the right way.

• 21:18Patrick Bet-David?

  So let me ask you, the story about you being drafted by the Bulls, if it wasn't for something else, you would have been drafted by the Knicks? And now you've been wanting the Knicks coaching job since two thousand nineteen?

• 21:29Speaker 04

  I've been wanting, I've been wanting to be a Knick since nineteen ninety-six in high school. And then nineteen ninety-nine, I thought I would be a Knick. I love New York. Even though, you know, I'm a Pacer guy also, I love the Pacers, I'm, uh, all, and the Lakers too, the Lakers turned my, the Lakers cemented, cemented my legacy. The Sacramento Kings, um, regained my career. I went to Sacramento after Indiana. Sacramento, you know, they got my career back. I was done, depressed. Mentally, I was done. So, you know, I had different journeys with everybody. And the Pacers, we just had such great rapport, like, we was headed in the right direction. You know, um, so I'm probably tightest, closest with the Pacers and Lakers, probably Pacers and Lakers.

• 22:14Speaker 04

  Um, I love Mr. Dola, I don't, I don't have a relationship with Mr. Dola, but the Knicks, I'm from New York City.

• 22:20Adam Sosnick?

  St. John's.

• 22:20Speaker 04

  Right, so St. John's, you know, Queens, so- For sure, but I want to be a Nick. I wanted, I was a Nick for one year. You know, thank you to Mr. Dolan and Grunfeld and whoever else was there. They're not there anymore. And yeah, so the Knicks is extremely, it's extremely important to me.

• 22:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you, have, have, have you guys had a conversation about the coaching job or no?

• 22:41Speaker 04

  No, because you gotta think about it. When I, when I was, um, I coached at Cal State LA. I coached Division II women's basketball for the last seven years. We're turning that program around. You know, I was, I was at a coffee shop in the Vancouver Islands when we all found out that Tibbs got fired. So when I saw that.

• 22:58Patrick Bet-David?

  I was shocked. I don't know if you were shocked. I was shocked.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  I wasn't, I wasn't shocked. I was, I was waiting to put in the phone. I couldn't wait to send out that I wanted a job. Cause my mind didn't have time to be shocked, you know, or surprised or anything. I was like, oh, this is available now. You gotta understand, when someone gets fired, the agents, the general managers, they're already working. So somebody's already being hired and this has happened to me all the time. I can't get opportunities because I, I'm not in the know. I don't have an agent and I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily try to fit in circles, you know? I just like to work. So I don't have circles open. So that's why I said I'm gonna send this tweet out.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  And I did it within like two minutes and then it kinda went viral. Now, I'm still not in the system, if that makes sense, but.

• 23:47Patrick Bet-David?

  So you haven't interviewed yet?

• 23:48Speaker 04

  I've not interviewed.

• 23:49Patrick Bet-David?

  But they know, they know you want the job.

• 23:51Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 23:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep. So, so what would you, like, if, let's just say you were there, okay? You, you got a very young team, okay? They went to the Eastern Conference Finals twice, right? The guy's a stud. He's an underestimated guy, Bronson Ware, you know, since the day he came out. Is he a Villanova? Who did he? Bronson went to Villanova, yeah. Half that team went to Villanova. So, yeah, how would you, how would you coach that team differently?

• 24:16Speaker 04

  You know, um, so for one, I'm not gonna say differently because I'm not gonna compare myself to Tibbs. You know, uh, maybe some of the things are the same, but I know, uh, how I wanna win. I know how I wanna win. And I'm not gonna give away everything because I, one, if I do get the Knicks job, which would be a blessing, it would need to be a Hail Mary, like a Nick football. First time ever. You've never seen a Nick football? It need to be a Hail Mary for me to get this position. Um, you know, I saw a couple of things. Game one. That was the Knicks game. Halliburton was incredible. He's the Michael Jordan of these playoffs. You know.

• 24:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That's a big statement right there.

• 24:55Speaker 04

  He is. Of these playoffs this year, he's the Michael Jordan.

• 24:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 24:57Speaker 04

  We've never seen this. Name of time, you've seen these many game winners.

• 25:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Game one, he ripped the heart out of the Knicks. Yeah, that one shot he made.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  Three.

• 25:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 25:07Speaker 04

  Or four.

• 25:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Who is done? Yeah, he's playing. Okay, so for you, between Pacers and Knicks, who's your heart? Who has your heart?

• 25:15Speaker 04

  It's different. It's about even. When they play against each other in the playoffs, I typically don't go to those games. Because the Pacers, you know, is where I played the best. I had history with the fans. The fans had my back. Organization had my back, you know, through all the rough times. With New York, I'm a protector of New York City basketball. I love New York. So it's almost like an even playing field.

• 25:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you take an assistant job before you eventually have a coaching, like a head coach? Like, would you entertain assistant?

• 25:43Speaker 04

  Well, right now, since the Knicks head coaching job is on the table, I don't want to put assistant in the air.

• 25:47Patrick Bet-David?

  I got you. All right.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  I want to keep it focused on head coaching because you got to think about it. People could say, this coach is prepared. This coach is prepared. Just not taking any shots at the coaches. But everybody had their chance to bring the Knicks to the promised land. Everybody had their chance. At some point in time, somebody got to step up and actually bring the Knicks to the promised land.

• 26:10Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, you know what it reminds me of? You know the, the coach of the Detroit Lions? Who, who, the coach of the Detroit Lions? Yeah, he's the man. Yeah, there's something about. There's something about the guy that's emotional. I want to know, is Dan Campbell from Detroit? Can you see if he's, he's from, no, he's from Texas. Interesting, because he coaches the Lions as if he's from Detroit.

• 26:33Speaker 04

  Ah, nice, nice.

• 26:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he ever play for the Lions? Who did he play for? Okay, head coach, yeah, but who did he play for? I think, I think he played as well. He did. 2006. So there you go. There is heart. There, there is that.

• 26:47Patrick Bet-David?

  affinity for the organization because when it comes down to Knicks, I wonder what it's like to get a guy there that's coaching, who is a New York guy, who is doing what he's doing. Going back to what we're talking about with, you know, Kobe. You played with Kobe, you've guarded Kobe, you've guarded, you know, LeBron, and you've guarded Michael. Now, Michael, you guarded him when he was at the end, so it's not really, you can't really compare. I looked at the numbers, I actually pulled it up to see, you know, what they average when you play defense against them. So, Michael, you played five games against them, I don't know if you know these stats.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  I never know.

• 27:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me give it to you.

• 27:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know he played, yeah.

• 27:27Patrick Bet-David?

  So, you played five, you guarded him five, you played against him five times, okay. Twenty-two point four games, twenty-two point four points a game, six rebounds, two point six assists. This is against you. Kobe, you played against twenty times, twenty-seven, six, five, seven rebounds, six, one assists.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  What about the field goal percentage, they have it?

• 27:45Patrick Bet-David?

  I can pull that up as well. And then LeBron, twenty-six, nine, six point seven, six point, matter of fact, I'm gonna pull that up because it's interesting to know that as well.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:53Patrick Bet-David?

  What was the, what was a different style playing up against MJ? He was in his mid to late thirties.

• 28:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Kobe, LeBron, how different are they guarding them?

• 28:04Speaker 04

  They're all different, you know, Kobe's definitely more similar to MJ. But I think MJ get the upper hand because MJ's mid-range is incredible, he's very strong. He could turn left, turn right, once he release it, it's going in. Kobe's a little bit different, a little bit more agile than MJ, and LeBron's more, he's stronger. He's more of a team player, even though Jordan did average a triple-double, I think, in one of these playoff series, and he did have times where he would have thirteen assists. But I think LeBron, he was physical, he sees the floor, and he brought something totally different to the table than what Kobe would bring or Michael. They all so different, but if I had to give one guy the edge, it'd be Michael.

• 28:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Because of what, because of mid-range?

• 28:49Speaker 04

  He's really efficient, if you see his movement, it's all like, everything fundamentally sound, he's quick, he's strong, he's athletic, he can shoot, you know.

• 28:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, so I would probably have to give it to Michael.

• 29:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it true the story I heard about when you played pickup with Michael, you broke two of his ribs?

• 29:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:07Patrick Bet-David?

  How did that happen?

• 29:08Speaker 04

  You see that picture you just saw of me and Mike? Look at this picture. You see that one right there?

• 29:12Patrick Bet-David?

  I love that.

• 29:13Speaker 04

  So you see, that's in the game. Look at Mike.

• 29:15Patrick Bet-David?

  How old are you in this picture?

• 29:16Speaker 04

  I'm nineteen, or twenty. That's how me and Mike played every day in the summertime. Wow. We were just, we was picking up from the summertime. Right there, that picture. When I saw that picture, I said, wow, that's what, because people didn't get a chance to see. Look at Mike arms. What am I doing? What is Mike doing? So whose foul is this?

• 29:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's foul? This is your foul.

• 29:37Speaker 04

  Why would you say this is my foul?

• 29:38Patrick Bet-David?

  You're on his face. His arm is below you. You're fouling him.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  But look, what is his arms doing? He's putting his arms into you to grab onto you. Okay. Yeah. This is the same call where Mike in the summertime, when I broke his ribs by mistake, where he got called the offensive foul.

• 29:53Patrick Bet-David?

  On this play?

• 29:54Speaker 04

  So keep, the same exact play. So keep in mind, so check it out, watch this. Which is really interesting. I love Mike, by the way. I changed my number to twenty-three because of Mike. I love Mike, right? But, so, Mike, as Mike runs in the summertime, he's bringing referees. So Mike has three referees in his run. He's bringing the referees? Yeah, everyone. That's how you win a game. His free throws, everything in Mike runs.

• 30:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Do they favor him because he's paying them, or not really?

• 30:18Speaker 04

  Um... They better. I don't know if they was favoring him as much, honestly. I think it was even for everybody.

• 30:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 30:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was pretty even. Yeah, it was even. So you see my right arm?

• 30:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 30:29Speaker 04

  On the other side.

• 30:29Patrick Bet-David?

  On the back?

• 30:30Speaker 04

  On the back side. So, because Mike is so strong, and the reason I'm like that, because he got these little tricks. The thing with Mike is this, if you let him catch it, that's where you die. So you can't let him catch it.

• 30:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting.

• 30:43Speaker 04

  Because once he catch it, I don't care who you are, you done, right? So, as he was holding me, I took my right arm in the summertime, and I moved his... Bottom arm out the way, and then I cracked him on the other side. But I didn't throw it at him, I was just trying to swing and move him out the way. And I just think he didn't realize how strong I was, but he called me after that. Cause in the media, you know, people reported that I, they said I punched Michael in the Chicago Tribune. Ronald Artest punches Michael Jordan in a, in a, in a, in a run.

• 31:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Seriously, Chicago Tribune said that?

• 31:19Speaker 04

  Yeah. What'd he call you and say? Well, he said, I was depressed for two days, I'm like, this news just went out. Yeah. That I punched somebody, I played for the Bulls. So I was depressed and I didn't go to practice, I mean, the summertime practices, but then Michael called me and said, it's okay. We were just playing hard. I want you to come back. So Michael said, you see, who foul is that?

• 31:45Speaker 04

  Well, he's on defense, he's gonna get the foul. Who's foul is that?

• 31:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's foul is that?

• 31:49Speaker 04

  Look at all these pictures with me. That's why I love Mike. Your young hair. I think Mike, um, Mike said in the paper one time that I was one of his favorite players or defenders. And then I came out and said it, and then Barkley was like, Mike didn't say that. Why would Michael Jordan say that Ronald Artest is one of his favorite players? Look at that one. This is, look at, you see me and Mike?

• 32:08Patrick Bet-David?

  That is insane.

• 32:09Speaker 04

  You see the intensity? You see, that's what people, that's, that's what, you know what I mean? That's why Mike, I'm like, Charles, why would I make that up? I'm like, look how I play against Michael, I ain't kissing Michael Jordan's behind. I'm going at Michael.

• 32:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Was he talking? Was he, like, out of all three, who's chirping the most?

• 32:24Speaker 04

  Well, nobody talks to me.

• 32:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you being serious?

• 32:28Speaker 04

  I'm serious.

• 32:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me why.

• 32:29Speaker 04

  I've never heard anybody talk to you.

• 32:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Wait a minute, are you being serious?

• 32:31Speaker 04

  With the exception of, I've never heard Mike talk trash to me, I heard him talk trash to other people. Kobe, when I, when I talked to Kobe, that's when we was going, we had a little banter back and forth. But I've never seen Kobe, Kobe, I've never heard Kobe talk to me, or even, or even like a LeBron. I never, you know, cause you, you, you risk me turning up. They don't want that smoke is what you're saying. But Paul Pierce, on the other hand. Okay, the truth. He initiates it.

• 32:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I mean, listen, a part of it is, you know, Rob, can you pull up the clip? Of you, you pulled his pants down, you pulled his shorts down in the middle of the game.

• 33:05Speaker 04

  In the middle of the game.

• 33:06Patrick Bet-David?

  In the middle of the game, what do they call it? They have a name for this.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, pantsing.

• 33:09Patrick Bet-David?

  You pantsed, right? Is this it?

• 33:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Watch this here.

• 33:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, cause uh.

• 33:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Look at this, look, look at Ron, okay, no, no, you gotta go back, you gotta, cause you missed it. Go back a little bit and just, watch this.

• 33:22Adam Sosnick?

  But respect to Paul Pierce here. He gets the ball.

• 33:24Speaker 04

  I know, I know, I know.

• 33:25Adam Sosnick?

  Fade away three on you.

• 33:27Speaker 04

  So what was that all about? Well, he was scoring so much, I couldn't stop him this game. And he couldn't stop me, by the way. I had a lot of points, too. So I was trying to like, slow him down. I was literally trying to slow him down, but you know, Paul was like, yeah. He didn't care.

• 33:43Adam Sosnick?

  Before we move on from the MJ, LeBron, Kobe conversation, I have one question for you. I mean, not many people can say that you've guarded the three best offensive players, three best, you know, athletes that have ever played the game. Let's use, put Michael Jordan, the GOAT, aside. You're starting a team. You're the manager, you're the coach.

• 34:01Speaker 04

  Right.

• 34:02Adam Sosnick?

  You can either draft Kobe in his prime, or LeBron in his prime. You get the first pick.

• 34:06Speaker 04

  And they prime?

• 34:07Adam Sosnick?

  Primetime LeBron, primetime Kobe, you get the first pick.

• 34:11Speaker 04

  Ooh. Primetime LeBron. Primetime, uh.

• 34:18Speaker 00

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• 35:17Speaker 04

  I probably go with Kobe because I think he could take over a game. But LeBron, LeBron's the number one scorer, that's really hard. You sound conflicted here. I feel like your heart says Kobe, but your mind's saying LeBron. Sometimes, I do pick LeBron sometimes. Sometimes I'll pick LeBron, like, alright, that's my guy. Some days, I'll pick Kobe. But then also, what gets in the way of my goat is Tim Duncan. They forget, Tim's arguably better than those guys. But let's not bring Tim in the conversation. You get your first pick. Who are you taking? First pick?

• 36:02Speaker 04

  That's crazy. In their primes? Yeah, you get the first pick. LeBron brought a team, how many teams did LeBron bring to the finals with like? Three. No?

• 36:10Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, a lot, with Mo Williams.

• 36:12Speaker 04

  Famous.

• 36:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Not on Mo Williams, Mo Williams averaged 16 points, but it wasn't like he had. I see the point you're making, because...

• 36:19Speaker 04

  You know what I mean? So then at that, from that perspective, it leans towards...

• 36:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Eastern Conference. And there was a moment where in Eastern Conference, you didn't have a lot of stuff going on.

• 36:28Speaker 04

  He's never been to the finals, or he's been with the Lakers, but yes, true, the Western Conference is a little tougher. I mean, you probably would lean towards a LeBron at, you know, sometimes. So you're picking LeBron? You would lean towards a LeBron.

• 36:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So tell me about this Duncan, when you're saying like Duncan was better than all of those guys.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  Duncan's arguably better than those guys.

• 36:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Like even Michael or just LeBron and Kobe?

• 36:47Speaker 04

  Duncan is, okay, yeah, put Michael in it, Duncan is arguably, would beat those guys. Stop it. Duncan got five rings. Stop it. In a small market, by the way. Jordan was in Chicago, it's not gonna be, not tough to get to Chicago. Kobe's in LA, it's not tough to convince somebody to come to LA. It's tough to convince somebody to come to Cleveland. LeBron went back to Cleveland. See, that title's gonna separate LeBron at the end of the day at some point. Because he is the number one scorer already. He went back to a small market. LeBron called me in 2009 to come to the Cavs. Now, I said no for many reasons.

• 37:24Patrick Bet-David?

  He called you.

• 37:25Speaker 04

  I spoke to, I spoke to King James on the phone. And, you know, I want, one, I want to play against King James, I want to play against Kobe, I want to play against T-Mac. I typically don't like to play on their teams. That's, that's the main thing. But, that was a small market, you couldn't really convince me to go. So...

• 37:43Speaker 04

  San Antonio, small market. So it's tougher to win in San Antonio than it is.

• 37:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting, interesting what you just said because the perspective you're given is that the ability, like I asked Kobe, I said Kobe, how do you recruit guys to come to your teams? It's very easy for me. You want to win, come with me. You don't go with everybody else. Remember when he said that? It's an easy sales pitch. He says, you want to come to me, let's go win.

• 38:05Speaker 04

  He told you that?

• 38:06Patrick Bet-David?

  He told me that, yeah. Rob, you can pull up that clip. It's online somewhere, but.

• 38:10Speaker 04

  He was on your show?

• 38:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, yeah, we had him on in front of 6,000 people. Yeah, it was 2019, 2019. Yeah, we had a very good, but find the part about him saying recruiting, if you can find it. But it's interesting to say like, who wants to go to a small market? Who wants to go to a small market?

• 38:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, who wants to go to a small market?

• 38:26Patrick Bet-David?

  And now you got two small markets in the finals today.

• 38:29Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 38:30Patrick Bet-David?

  You got two small markets in the finals today. You got Indiana and you got OKC. Lowest viewed, did you see the data? It's the lowest viewed finals since 1988, man.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  It's a reason for that, honestly. I think we got to get the people back used to.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  We need to let these stars become stars, not like force-feeding stuff.

• 38:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me what you mean by that.

• 38:52Speaker 04

  Meaning like, there's a lot of manufactured stars.

• 38:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Like who?

• 38:57Speaker 04

  I don't want to mention people's names exactly, but for example, when Detroit Pistons won the finals, yeah, you had Richard Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, but nobody had them winning.

• 39:07Patrick Bet-David?

  2004. That was a team, that was a team.

• 39:09Speaker 04

  They became stars. Look at the Warriors. Yeah, they had Stephen Curry, but we didn't know, but that team became stars. But sometimes you'll get the media, they'll force-feed you, you know, this guy, force-feed you, this team. I mean, look at this Pacers team. You know, there's no real superstars.

• 39:27Patrick Bet-David?

  No, even Halliburton's doesn't give me a superstar vibe.

• 39:30Speaker 04

  Not, yeah, they're not superstars yet, but they're going to become stars because we're going to win it, right?

• 39:35Patrick Bet-David?

  You think you're going to win it?

• 39:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, we're going to win in six.

• 39:37Patrick Bet-David?

  You think so?

• 39:37Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 39:38Patrick Bet-David?

  I was blown away by the fact that last night, I'm sitting with Dylan, it's 11:30. I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? They're up 2 to 1.

• 39:45Speaker 04

  Yes, they are.

• 39:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Because the way that, you know, OKC plays, they're long, they got the D, you know, the way they're playing is, it's a very intimidating team, 68 wins, like they should win it. Indiana's got how many wins? 50 or 51, 49 wins? I don't even know what the number is.

• 39:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, maybe not even 50.

• 39:59Patrick Bet-David?

  But I, so here's a question for you. What's the biggest difference between Halliburton and Chris Paul?

• 40:05Speaker 04

  Halliburton, a little bit taller, a little bit more shifty.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  A better three-point shooter.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  You know, um, and uh, probably a bigger clutch shot maker.

• 40:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Than, than Paul?

• 40:21Speaker 04

  Paul might, he probably could argue that, but Halliburton, he has his timing on his clutch shots. The time, he's on time. He is not late.

• 40:29Patrick Bet-David?

  His shot is a very unorthodox shot, but it just goes in.

• 40:33Speaker 04

  It's like, he holds it, he holds it like a, like.

• 40:36Patrick Bet-David?

  He shoots it in a very, it's like old school shot. He's got an eighties old school shot, the way people would shoot it.

• 40:43Adam Sosnick?

  Kind of like a Shawn Marion, Bill Cartwright weird little windup kind of a thing.

• 40:46Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know if I would go that far. I think he's just got a, he's got a, he's got an old school.

• 40:50Speaker 04

  Shawn's here. It's more seventies actually. It's more, it's more sixties actually.

• 40:55Adam Sosnick?

  He's like Rick Barry at the free throw line doing that thing.

• 40:58Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a very weird shot. Like, I don't know if they're gonna, you know, duplicate that shot, but going back to fabricating players to become superstars. So fabricating players to become superstars. So if I gave you some names, okay? And, you know, on, on current NBA today, okay? Tell me what you think about their game. Giannis.

• 41:18Speaker 04

  Giannis is really good on defense. Um, I think he's so physical on offense. I don't know if he has a lot of moves, but he's scoring at a high clip because he's so physical. He's quick. He's in shape. He's in shape.

• 41:30Patrick Bet-David?

  He's so fun to watch. He's a fun guy to watch.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Fun guy to watch. He can, he, his hedges on screens are incredible. I really love his hedges on screens. That, I love that the most about, out of anything that he does. Cause it's such an important part of the game.

• 41:44Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about Luka?

• 41:45Speaker 04

  Luka has to get in shape. Luka has to get in shape.

• 41:48Patrick Bet-David?

  I heard he lost 20 pounds.

• 41:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, he has to not only lose weight, but also create endurance. I think, uh, the game was a little bit easy for him on offense and I, and I think he forgot that you also gotta play defense. And to play defense, you gotta be in shape. So, you know, um, so I think, um, he has to be more aware of the game. He has to be more aware that there are incredible players. Look who's in the finals. Luka is the man. Well, guess what? Now it's other people that are winning. So Luka has to like really get back to square one.

• 42:25Patrick Bet-David?

  When, when, when you think about Zion Williamson, okay? Zion is a beast of a guy. When you look at his body, physicality, the whole thing, right? And you're seeing the numbers that he's putting up if he plays. I don't know how many games he's missed. I think he's missed 200 plus games.

• 42:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, a lot of games.

• 42:42Patrick Bet-David?

  The last four or five seasons. From your perspective, is he done? Or can he still come back and be superstar status, champion type of guy? Maybe go to the Knicks and maybe you coach him in the next two or three years. You know what I'm saying? Cause he wants to go to the Knicks. According to a lot of, you know, rumors you hear about, the guy wants to leave New Orleans and wants to go to the Knicks. You think this guy's gonna make a resurgence and be a superstar?

• 43:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think, I think he will. He had the injury, came off the injury. So you can see he was, he wasn't as bouncy, you know? I think same situation as Luka. I think you gotta, you gotta be aware. Sometimes you get so much money, you know, so much media, private jets, all this stuff. But you're not aware of the game. You're not aware of the soul of the game. So you're not aware that other people are working Shay Alexander in shape. You know, you're letting these people catch up to you. And by the way, they might stay consistently there. You got Wim Banyana. You're not aware that, oh, Wim Banyana is coming. He's gonna be a force in a couple of years. You only get a window. You only get a window. Russell Westbrook got MVP. Well, that's a window.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  And that window goes away. No matter how good you are, somebody else is gonna step in. The same thing with winning. You know, even with, even with, even with the Denver team, they won it once, right? Twice or once?

• 43:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Once.

• 43:59Speaker 04

  Once.

• 43:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 44:00Speaker 04

  They got, they got there twice, I think.

• 44:01Patrick Bet-David?

  They got there twice, yes.

• 44:03Speaker 04

  And it's a window. Now, they don't know, we don't know if they're gonna get there again. So Zion and people like Luka, they gotta understand, this is a window.

• 44:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you check to see if Denver got there twice?

• 44:11Adam Sosnick?

  They beat the Heat.

• 44:12Patrick Bet-David?

  I know, I know they got there once. I, I, I think they've been on the Western Conference multiple times, three times. And, and, and he's a, he's a stud of a guy. Denver was one of the first champions in history. Yeah, I think they just got to the championship.

• 44:25Speaker 04

  Oh, they just got there and won it.

• 44:26Patrick Bet-David?

  And what a team. Oh, because that one year Jamal Murray was injured. I don't know if you remember when he got hurt.

• 44:32Speaker 04

  Right after they won it.

• 44:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  After they won it.

• 44:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 44:34Adam Sosnick?

  You were gonna ask about a couple of different players who are maybe, kinda wanna put words in your mouth, sort of. Become the face of the league, almost coronated before they've done anything. A name that comes to mind for me, my opinion, is Anthony Edwards. He's never won anything. He's, you know, Luca beat him, got to the finals. Shay Gilgis Alexander beat him, got to the finals. Is he someone that you might be referring to as someone that, you know, the face of the league, but maybe hasn't deserved it yet?

• 45:01Speaker 04

  So it's two different ways to become a face. One, it's your sneaker company. It's your branding company, marketing you, paid ads, advertisement. Then you got media, they gotta find somebody they're gonna pick.

• 45:13Adam Sosnick?

  Good-looking guy?

• 45:14Speaker 04

  Good-looking guy, media playing well, you know, everybody's, you know, then you got those two ways. And you got the fans, right? Then you got the fans, and sometimes it's two, it's almost like three sections of fans. You got the, the media fan, who's only listening to the media.

• 45:28Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 04

  And they just putting out the messaging like that, because they gotta go to work. And then you got the real fan, you know, and then sometimes, depending on who's saying what, maybe all four of those verticals are saying Anthony Edwards. Well, Shay has something to say about that.

• 45:43Adam Sosnick?

  Right.

• 45:44Speaker 04

  You know? And I think, I like when you earn it. I like when Ben Wallace earned the Defensive Player of the Year. Richard Hamilton or Chauncey Billups earned that Finals MVP. Mr. Big Shot.

• 45:55Patrick Bet-David?

  He was a stud, man.

• 45:56Speaker 04

  Ego Dollar.

• 45:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Chauncey was fun.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  Chauncey was incredible.

• 45:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 45:59Speaker 04

  You know?

• 46:00Adam Sosnick?

  Mr. Big Shot.

• 46:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 46:01Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 46:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Ben, I think, did Ben get Defensive Player of the Year four times?

• 46:05Speaker 04

  Four times. I should have, I should have had one or two of those, Ben.

• 46:09Patrick Bet-David?

  You should have one of his.

• 46:10Speaker 04

  One, I think, I think one.

• 46:12Patrick Bet-David?

  So I got a question for you.

• 46:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think one.

• 46:13Patrick Bet-David?

  I just don't know what you're saying.

• 46:14Speaker 04

  He would make an argument that he should have had mine.

• 46:18Adam Sosnick?

  That's a good defensive player, I'm gonna steal your stuff.

• 46:20Patrick Bet-David?

  So since we're talking about Defensive Player of the Year, before we get to the malice at the Palace, but Defensive Player of the Year, when, when, when you think about Defensive Player of the Year, you know, they'll talk about Michael Jordan, you know, you know, he, he played defense, and he was this, and he was that, and LeBron never got a Defensive Player of the Year.

• 46:36Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 46:37Patrick Bet-David?

  And then LeBron has said multiple times that that year, when Marc Gasol got the Defensive Player of the Year, it should have been his, right?

• 46:46Speaker 04

  Right.

• 46:46Patrick Bet-David?

  What are your thoughts about that?

• 46:48Speaker 04

  Well, LeBron, I think LeBron's a good defender. He, he's different, he's, um, he hustles, he tracks you down. He's all over the floor, he's rebounding. He's a different type of defender. It might, it's probably going overlooked a little bit. But you can make the same case with MJ. MJ actually, the way I locked up, is the way MJ locked up. You see what I'm saying? MJ locked up like that. You know, N got thirty, so MJ, it's a difference. Marc Gasol was more protecting the rim, so LeBron does have an argument because Marc wasn't locking up. But he was protecting the team, he was the anchor like a Draymond Green. Draymond locks up and he's the anchor. Right? So LeBron was, he definitely was the anchor because you go to the basketball, here comes LeBron. Look, even look at his big blocks that he had in the finals.

• 47:32Speaker 04

  He for sure has an argument. He has an argument.

• 47:35Patrick Bet-David?

  On being a, on winning the Defensive Player of the Year that year over Marc Gasol?

• 47:40Speaker 04

  I mean, Marc played, I think he has an argument that year because we were overlooking how he affects defense. You know, everybody, because we're used to seeing a wing player perimeter, getting down on defense, doing what Michael Jordan did, which was Michael locked people up.

• 47:56Patrick Bet-David?

  What year did Marc Gasol win Defensive Player of the Year? Marc Gasol Defensive Player of the Year, 2013, interesting. So 2013, what did LeBron do in 2013?

• 48:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's interesting.

• 48:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Defensive Player of the Year.

• 48:09Adam Sosnick?

  2013, he was playing for the Heat.

• 48:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Defensive Player of the Year, 2013.

• 48:14Adam Sosnick?

  Last or second to last year of the Heat.

• 48:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Was he voted second Defensive Player of the Year? Okay, so if we go to Defensive Player of the Year, there's the most valuable, Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year. So LeBron won second. So Marc Gasol got 212 votes. LeBron got 149. Marc got 31st place votes. And LeBron got 18. Then it was Ibaka, Joakim Noah, and it was Tony Allen and Tim Duncan.

• 48:41Speaker 04

  So he almost got it.

• 48:42Patrick Bet-David?

  He almost got it. LeBron averaged .9 blocks a game. Marc was 1.7. Steals LeBron 1.7, Marc 1. I wonder how they scored that? Is it, because when I asked you a question and I said, you know, here's what Jordan averaged against you, LeBron averaged against you, Kobe averaged against you, and then the first thing you asked about was what? What did they shoot, field goal, right?

• 49:01Speaker 04

  Field goal percentage.

• 49:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Is the NBA gonna look at the fact of what the opponent's field goal percentage is to give you that Defensive Player of the Year?

• 49:08Speaker 04

  Well, I wouldn't have got Defensive Player of the Year if it wasn't for Rick Carlisle, because the year I got it, Rick Carlisle had the whole staff work on it. So Rick Carlisle really won me that. It was a stat that all small forwards averaged six points against me that year. I didn't even know that. So you combine all the small forwards, when you play against Meta, they was only getting six points. Now, yeah, LeBron might have gotten 25, but everyone else. Was getting really sometimes zero. I had a lot of people that zero points, which is really difficult.

• 49:38Speaker 04

  You know, two points, you know.

• 49:41Patrick Bet-David?

  So you you were 2004, right? 2004 Defensive Player of the Year. And who was second behind you that year?

• 49:46Speaker 04

  It might have been Ben. It was always me. Those years was just me and Ben flip flopping one and two.

• 49:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it 03 or 04? No, 03, 04, right?

• 49:54Speaker 04

  I got it 03, 04.

• 49:56Patrick Bet-David?

  03, 04. Yeah. Can you pull it up, Rob? I'm actually curious right now.

• 49:59Speaker 04

  Oh, Kevin Garnett finished second.

• 50:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, no shit?

• 50:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Huh. Let me, let me check this one out. If, if you go, Rob, too, I'm actually curious to know who was. Is it Sean who's second and third, or no?

• 50:14Adam Sosnick?

  Kevin Garnett.

• 50:15Speaker 04

  Kevin Garnett.

• 50:17Speaker 04

  He got MVP that year. And actually, Jermaine, I think, I thought Jermaine should have won Defensive Player of the Year, but the year I got it.

• 50:25Patrick Bet-David?

  So let's, let's talk about, you know, here's an interesting stat. I looked up who has been suspended, who got the biggest suspension in the NBA ever. OJ Mayo was first place. I didn't know that about him. It was 162 games for, what was it?

• 50:38Adam Sosnick?

  I think it was steroids.

• 50:40Patrick Bet-David?

  OJ Mayo didn't look like he used steroids. OJ Mayo, he used steroids?

• 50:46Adam Sosnick?

  Substance, probably disclosed the levels typically drugs of abuse. It wasn't marijuana. You're not going to get suspended that long for marijuana, right?

• 50:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, anyways, he got 100.

• 50:53Speaker 04

  Probably not for marijuana.

• 50:54Patrick Bet-David?

  He got 162 games, give or take, okay? Then yours was 86 games.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, too many games.

• 51:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and in third place was interesting was Latrell Sprewell.

• 51:05Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 51:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, 68.

• 51:06Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:07Patrick Bet-David?

  The whole when he, you know, choked Rudy Tomjanovic.

• 51:10Adam Sosnick?

  No, no, no. PJ Carlissimo.

• 51:11Patrick Bet-David?

  PJ Carlissimo, yeah. Rudy Tomjanovic is the one that got punched in the face back in the days when he played. I don't know if you know about this or not.

• 51:17Adam Sosnick?

  Oh, yeah, of course. I think it was Larry, no, Julius Erving.

• 51:19Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, you're talking Larry, no. Completely different guy, big guy.

• 51:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's a nice guy, actually.

• 51:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Punched him in the face, broke his jaw, and he had to sip.

• 51:28Adam Sosnick?

  Who punched Rudy?

• 51:29Patrick Bet-David?

  You, you can type who punched Rudy. But anyways, and by the way, Latrell Sprewell, to me, was one of the most exciting. These guys at the time had who? Billy Owens, they had, they had a very exciting squad, right, at the time? Maybe even Mullin was on the team with him. But with you, Malice at the Palace, right? You know, you know things are. Things change when a sport creates new rules. After that game, they never allowed glass drinks because of that game. Did you know this? The last time they allowed glass drinks in the NBA was at this game. After this, they said, moving forward, there's no more glass drinks.

• 52:06Speaker 04

  And no more drinking in the fourth quarter.

• 52:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that what they, no more drinking in the fourth quarter?

• 52:11Speaker 04

  Alcohol stops in the fourth, I think now it stops in the fourth quarter.

• 52:14Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so, so, look, I've heard this story, God knows how many times, it never gets old. My son Dylan, you know, if he sits there and he wants to watch some video sports, he says, Dad, can we watch Malice at the Palace? He says, buddy, you can watch Ronaldo score a goal, Messi score. I want to watch Malice at the Palace. Walk us through what happened. I don't even think the foul was that big of a foul, but just kind of give us your commentary.

• 52:36Speaker 04

  You see the score. So, we were running the game, you know, and it wasn't that big of a foul, but, you know, I know what happened, like, so, one, they were down. I've never given up free layups. I'm not, and just because it was Ben, I'm not going to give up a free layup. And I saw Chauncey was on a podcast and said, you know, Ron foul Ben, he must not have known what he was doing, like, as if I didn't know, I was fouling like a shack, like, as if I was scared of a gorilla. I'm like, you know, yeah, I knew what I was doing, I was fouling Ben Wallace, of course I know what I'm doing. And then, but as I foul Ben, you know, he reacted.

• 53:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you guys at that, in that season, are you friends, you guys talking on the phone?

• 53:23Speaker 04

  I've never, no, we're definitely not friends.

• 53:25Patrick Bet-David?

  You've never been friends?

• 53:26Speaker 04

  No.

• 53:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Till today?

• 53:27Speaker 04

  I think we would see each other and say hello, like, I don't have no problems with Ben.

• 53:32Patrick Bet-David?

  But, but it's not like you guys are like Oakley and Jordan were friends, it's not like one of those things, at all?

• 53:37Speaker 04

  Never, never.

• 53:38Patrick Bet-David?

  But was there animosity? Is there anything that maybe he got an award that you didn't get, or you got an award? Is there anything there?

• 53:43Speaker 04

  I think the Defensive Player of the Year is because, well, he got his in 2002. In 2002, I was an immersion defender, and I wanted that award, he wanted. Then he got it again in 2003. In 2003, I think I made first team all defense, and I was locking a lot of people up, and I'm like, damn, I should have got that award. In 2004, I actually get the award. So, now he has two, I have one. Then you got the next year, the brawl year. Now, keep in mind, in 2003, for me, I got the most tech and the most fragrance, I think, in the league.

• 54:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, three.

• 54:18Speaker 04

  Oh, three. And I think like the media was like, you know, Metta is too wild. We're not, don't just give him that award. I think they just gave it to Ben. Not like he earned it, but I think it edged. Um, two thousand and four, I had my head on a little bit more straight. Oh, three, oh, four. The next year I could suspend it. So the next year, I thought I was gonna win it. Because not only, you know, am I still the best defender, I believe, but my average is up, you know, it went up to twenty-four before I got suspended. So now I'm out, you know, so now, and then keep in mind, the year I got Defensive Player of the Year, I finished number six in MVP voting.

• 54:53Patrick Bet-David?

  No shit.

• 54:54Speaker 04

  A lot of stuff they keep away when it comes to me.

• 54:56Patrick Bet-David?

  You were number six MVP vote?

• 54:58Speaker 04

  I finished number six.

• 54:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 55:00Speaker 04

  Hey, what's up? I'm Metta World Peace, the chairman of Artest Management Group, and now I am officially on my neck. I want you to reach out to me. I got a lot of things to offer, whether you wanted to chat about sports, basketball, on the business side, business development, consultation, brand strategy, foreign relations, and more. I look forward to connecting with you on my neck. That's averaging eighteen points. So what, so check this out. So that's averaging eighteen. I make thirteen all NBA at twenty-three years old. So check this out. If I got that, and, you know, and, oh, that's the year I got Defensive Player of the Year, okay. You see, so, so if I got that, so now I'm out, now the next line under is twenty-four. That's MVP, that's six points more, and we the best team in the league.

• 55:45Speaker 04

  We had the best record the year I got Defensive Player of the Year. So I think that was my, I talk about that window. That's that window. That's that window, like Shay Alexander. Uh, you know, MVP. We don't know when the next time he gonna get it. So I think that was my year. That was my window to get MVP.

• 56:02Patrick Bet-David?

  So, and so, so you guys are-

• 56:03Speaker 04

  And Defensive Player of the Year.

• 56:05Patrick Bet-David?

  And is, is the NBA hyping it up that you guys are, you know, rivals and all that other stuff? Is that, are they doing that or not really? Is it just something that you, you and Pistons? Was there-

• 56:15Speaker 04

  Oh, we, we was rivals, you know, for sure.

• 56:17Patrick Bet-David?

  You are rivals at that time?

• 56:18Speaker 04

  We, we wasn't rivals from the perspective of like, you know, it was generated by media. It's because- We created that, the Pistons and Pacers, we created that. Now, they came out on top because they won, but we competed really hard. And internally, we even say, I speak to Rip Hamilton, because me and Rip, probably, I speak more to Rip than any of them. And I'm cool with Rashid and also, and Chauncey, and Tayshaun, I know Tayshaun for so long. And, you know, I like these guys, but when we played against each other, you know, it was a difference.

• 56:48Patrick Bet-David?

  So he comes in, it's not a hard foul, it's a foul.

• 56:51Speaker 04

  Right, right, it's a foul, but not a hard foul.

• 56:53Patrick Bet-David?

  And then he reacts.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  He reacted, so immediately when I fouled him and he turned to me, I was trying to say, sorry. Not, maybe not sorry, but, you know, maybe my bad. Because if you look at my reaction, and I would, that's what I was doing.

• 57:09Patrick Bet-David?

  I remember that.

• 57:10Speaker 04

  You know?

• 57:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you play it so he can get commentary from, because, you know, and by the way, I don't know if we can play it on the podcast or not, maybe we can, maybe we can, but if we can play just to get commentary, I want to see this from his perspective, because God knows how many times I've seen this thing here.

• 57:26Speaker 04

  I know, too many times.

• 57:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that it?

• 57:29Speaker 04

  That's definitely part of it.

• 57:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's definitely a part of it.

• 57:31Speaker 04

  You click on it, it's probably gonna-

• 57:32Patrick Bet-David?

  You can play on that one, Rob.

• 57:34Speaker 04

  They're definitely gonna play it.

• 57:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so here we go.

• 57:36Speaker 04

  All right, so show the foul, yeah, show the foul.

• 57:39Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, no, you have to show the foul, because I have, we have to see the foul, Rob.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, that picks up at the push.

• 57:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Uh, that's still-

• 57:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, go to another clip.

• 57:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Man, we gotta go to the one above, right there, check that one out, see?

• 57:52Speaker 04

  That's it.

• 57:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, that's it. So go back a little bit, this is just gonna show the foul, watch this. So you're going in-

• 57:58Speaker 04

  So hold it right there. Okay. Now, that's not, that's definitely not a soft foul, let me, let me be-

• 58:04Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not, but it's not a flagrant two or flagrant one foul. Did they call a flagrant one on that or no?

• 58:08Speaker 04

  That was a, that was, you know, it could have been a flagrant, but, or it could, that's a flagrant, okay, that's a flagrant. Now I can see why I've been, you know what?

• 58:18Patrick Bet-David?

  It's like when you slow it down a little bit.

• 58:20Speaker 04

  Well, I didn't, I didn't, I never saw it this angle. And this is, keep in mind, over the last 20 plus years, I said it was a soft foul.

• 58:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Now you're calling a flagrant?

• 58:30Speaker 04

  Well, I'm calling that a, that's a, that's a, that's a flagrant.

• 58:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Cause you didn't make a play for the ball.

• 58:34Speaker 04

  Well, I, I, I wanted to make a play just to grab him, but it was a weird angle. I don't know. Look at my eyes.

• 58:39Adam Sosnick?

  Is that, is that left hand?

• 58:40Speaker 04

  Nah, that's a, that's a, that's a flagrant. That's actually a flagrant.

• 58:43Adam Sosnick?

  The right hand goes for the ball, at least a little bit.

• 58:44Speaker 04

  I never even seen it like that.

• 58:46Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, I've never seen this angle myself.

• 58:49Speaker 04

  I've never seen this angle.

• 58:50Patrick Bet-David?

  So can you, Rob, can you find the other angle?

• 58:52Adam Sosnick?

  So you see, he, he hit you in the neck.

• 58:54Speaker 04

  Well.

• 58:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Pause it right there, Rob.

• 58:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:57Patrick Bet-David?

  So go for it. You, you were saying, you were saying something.

• 58:59Speaker 04

  Well, before that I see this angle, it's a, it's a hard foul. Maybe it's not a flagrant. It's definitely like a warning, right? It's a warning. But well, now you see, now look at my hand. Let me see if you keep going. Okay, I said, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. I, I don't know if you're gonna see it, but, well.

• 59:15Patrick Bet-David?

  You can go to the other, the other clip.

• 59:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, maybe go to the other clip now.

• 59:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Cause now the other clip shows the.

• 59:19Speaker 04

  Yeah. So after I fouled him, right there, right there.

• 59:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I saw the right hand.

• 59:24Speaker 04

  I was trying to be like, sorry, or, I don't know, um.

• 59:29Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah, like.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, like maybe like, hey, yeah, we good. And then he was like, I'm, he's tough and I'm tough.

• 59:35Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah, Ben Wallace ain't no joke.

• 59:37Speaker 04

  You know, and, and I, but you see me, I'm not too worried. You know, cause like.

• 59:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Was Ben known as a guy that would fight and brawl or no?

• 59:45Speaker 04

  Now Ben's just a good player. Ben's a very focused player. Look at me, I'm, I'm chilling, so I'm not worried about, I'm not worried. I'm laying on the scorer's table, man. You know, so.

• 59:54Adam Sosnick?

  You were like lying, literally, like lounging, I think I want to say.

• 59:57Speaker 04

  I'm really chilling. I'm not worried, cause, cause you know, I, I didn't want to turn up. Look, I'm right there, I'm not too worried.

• 1:00:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, by the way, you can pause it here. At this point, is it fair to say Jermaine is a gamer?

• 1:00:08Speaker 04

  No, Jermaine's a, yeah, that whole team.

• 1:00:10Patrick Bet-David?

  He's a gamer, like, no, no, no. Now, I'm not saying basketball. I'm talking about like, if things go down, Jermaine is a gamer.

• 1:00:16Speaker 04

  This, yeah, Jermaine, all, the whole team, the whole team is, the whole team is full of dogs. The whole team full, filled with dogs.

• 1:00:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was the toughest? Who was?

• 1:00:25Speaker 04

  David Harrison and, you know.

• 1:00:27Adam Sosnick?

  He was a big dude.

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  Big, okay, David Harrison, a dog. Jamal Tinsley.

• 1:00:32Adam Sosnick?

  Your point guard, Jamal Tinsley.

• 1:00:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Really?

• 1:00:34Speaker 04

  New York City, he was a street boy before he was a ball.

• 1:00:37Adam Sosnick?

  Iowa State, I want to say.

• 1:00:38Speaker 04

  Iowa State.

• 1:00:39Adam Sosnick?

  He was a gangster.

• 1:00:40Speaker 04

  Right, he's street, street before ball, you know, um.

• 1:00:43Adam Sosnick?

  Freddie Jones.

• 1:00:45Speaker 04

  Freddie Jones, dog. There's nothing but dogs on that team.

• 1:00:48Patrick Bet-David?

  No, and was that intentional?

• 1:00:49Speaker 04

  Jameson Brewer, dog.

• 1:00:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Who put the team together?

• 1:00:51Adam Sosnick?

  I think you had Kenny Anderson, the point guard, no?

• 1:00:53Speaker 04

  Kenny Anderson was on that team.

• 1:00:54Adam Sosnick?

  Old school.

• 1:00:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Who put that team together?

• 1:00:56Speaker 04

  Donnie Walsh.

• 1:00:58Adam Sosnick?

  Who put the together?

• 1:00:59Speaker 04

  Donnie Walsh.

• 1:01:00Patrick Bet-David?

  So he intentionally was looking for dogs?

• 1:01:03Speaker 04

  He was looking for dogs. He got him too.

• 1:01:06Patrick Bet-David?

  And so, keep playing it, Rob. Keep playing it.

• 1:01:08Adam Sosnick?

  So there you are lounging.

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  So as I'm lounging, like, the referees had no control, right? So the referees, you know, Ben won a fight.

• 1:01:16Patrick Bet-David?

  It's about to come. Watch closely.

• 1:01:18Speaker 04

  And they hold, I mean, you know, so he's throwing stuff at me now. That's why I got up right there.

• 1:01:24Adam Sosnick?

  But up until this point, this is nothing out of the ordinary. It's a little scuffle NBA. Until something gets thrown.

• 1:01:30Speaker 04

  Nah, what's out of the ordinary is that they didn't eject. They gotta make an ejection, like, there was no control. The refs had no control.

• 1:01:37Adam Sosnick?

  Alright.

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  Typically, you would be like, eject it. Foul. Eject it. Do it again. Warning, warning, warning. It was like, they was like, oh my goodness, this, uh, people's going, like, had no control.

• 1:01:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Make some decisions and do it quickly.

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  So if Ben would have been ejected, foul. Oh, you're running after him now? Stop. Oh, oh, I can't hold you. Eject it out of here. That's how that goes.

• 1:02:03Patrick Bet-David?

  So now that you're watching this, should they have ejected both of you?

• 1:02:07Speaker 04

  I don't, I mean, maybe, if, because they was eject, I was always getting ejected for looking at people the wrong way. I got ejected for looking at people the wrong way. But in this situation, I mean, I think you called the foul.

• 1:02:18Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Speaker 04

  You called the tech on Ben for pushing, or the warning, and as he's running, you go get him and say, stop. As he's still going, at some point, there has to be a tech. There was never a tech in this situation.

• 1:02:34Patrick Bet-David?

  But by the up until this point, they haven't called a tech or foul.

• 1:02:37Speaker 04

  Not one tech.

• 1:02:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Only the foul that they called.

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  Only the foul.

• 1:02:40Patrick Bet-David?

  And that wasn't a flagrant back then.

• 1:02:42Speaker 04

  That was, I mean.

• 1:02:43Patrick Bet-David?

  No, did they, did the refs call it a flagrant?

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  They just called it a foul, because it was, but it wasn't a little, I mean, you gotta think about it. They were down, they're the former champs, they were down, and then Ben had to go to the free throw line. Probably was gonna miss one of one, right? You know what I mean? So he probably was gonna.

• 1:02:59Adam Sosnick?

  This is the beginning of the next season after they won the championship. This isn't November, the season starts in October, this is.

• 1:03:05Speaker 04

  This is grudge game.

• 1:03:06Adam Sosnick?

  Ten games in type of the season.

• 1:03:07Speaker 04

  Ten games in, yeah.

• 1:03:08Patrick Bet-David?

  So now watch, keep playing it, Brian. Now it's about to happen.

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  They said it wasn't a big game, but for us, it was a big game.

• 1:03:14Patrick Bet-David?

  And you, you did this in their house.

• 1:03:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, for us, it was.

• 1:03:18Adam Sosnick?

  So you're still lying on the bench, on the scorers table.

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  Reggie Miller's like, everything's good.

• 1:03:22Adam Sosnick?

  Ben Wallace doing his thing.

• 1:03:23Speaker 04

  And I'm just trying to like, just like, get this shit over with already, you know, like.

• 1:03:28Patrick Bet-David?

  And then suddenly, someone throws.

• 1:04:30Adam Sosnick?

  Is Mike Brown yelling?

• 1:04:32Speaker 04

  I don't know how they, I don't even know.

• 1:04:33Patrick Bet-David?

  What a freaking time. What, this is the other, no, this is.

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  Well, I wish Steve would have guarded him, actually.

• 1:04:41Patrick Bet-David?

  You're gonna blame it on Stephen Jackson?

• 1:04:43Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, come on, Steve.

• 1:04:44Patrick Bet-David?

  You're throwing Stephen Jackson under the bus?

• 1:04:46Speaker 04

  No, not that.

• 1:04:47Patrick Bet-David?

  He's out there with all the smoke, you're gonna throw it on him? They haven't dropped the cup, nothing's been dropped yet. Nothing's been dropped yet, it should have happened any second now.

• 1:04:57Adam Sosnick?

  Lindsey Hunter's trying to calm things down.

• 1:04:58Speaker 04

  I actually was just trying to keep it under.

• 1:05:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Lindsey was fun.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  Lindsey was incredible.

• 1:05:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, he was fun to watch.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  Oh, I wish they didn't have.

• 1:05:04Adam Sosnick?

  Oh, there it was.

• 1:05:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, happened, watch this. Ben runs back, wait for it.

• 1:05:09Adam Sosnick?

  Let's see the cup land on him.

• 1:05:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Now?

• 1:05:14Adam Sosnick?

  Now here, the craziest fight in NBA history ensues.

• 1:05:17Speaker 04

  Alright, here's the unfortunate situation.

• 1:05:20Patrick Bet-David?

  That's one way to put it.

• 1:05:23Speaker 04

  Here is the unfortunate situation.

• 1:05:26Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, who's telling you, don't do it? Is anybody telling you, don't do it? Cause.

• 1:05:30Speaker 04

  Don't do what?

• 1:05:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Stop, like, come back out, is anybody trying to stop you?

• 1:05:34Speaker 04

  Man, it was.

• 1:05:34Patrick Bet-David?

  I didn't see Stephen Jackson stopping you.

• 1:05:36Speaker 04

  No, no, it was master.

• 1:05:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I don't think the referee blowing a whistle at this point is stopping you. No, no, but you gotta realize, somebody, somebody's gotta be like, look, bro, we're gonna get suspended.

• 1:05:43Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:05:44Adam Sosnick?

  He knows that when he was suspended.

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  Not in there, not at that point. Because what happened was, so, when the guy hit me, and by the way, the guy made a fifty dollar bet that he could hit me, so that's what. It's on my documentary, it's on documentary, that was.

• 1:05:56Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Speaker 04

  So he, he betted, the gentleman, he was here, another gentleman was here. This guy betted, this guy that he couldn't, no, this guy betted John Green that he couldn't hit me for fifty dollars. So then, John threw the cup and hit me, who's a kind of a friend now, actually. He threw the cup and hit me, and then the other gentleman raised his hand, like, oh, you did it! And then when I got hit, that's the first thing that I saw.

• 1:06:25Patrick Bet-David?

  You thought it was him?

• 1:06:26Speaker 04

  Oh, you did it, yeah, but, and then people said you hit the wrong guy, but it wasn't the wrong guy. Wasn't there someone on the floor that you came up?

• 1:06:33Patrick Bet-David?

  That comes clean wrong, but let him commentate this, keep going. So, I'm trying to see who threw that shoe?

• 1:06:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, they got, so they hit the frame. It was like, when we was in court, they showed frame by frame.

• 1:06:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you go back, Rob? I want to know who, who, you know, so when you, when he runs up, no, no, a little bit back when he first runs up. Okay, right there. Okay, let it go. Let it go from here. So, pa, okay, pause right there. Who is it? Who threw the cup?

• 1:06:58Speaker 04

  So, John in the white hat, my friend John. Yeah, out of here. He threw it away. And he bet, the guy, the guy bet, the guy I'm attacking right now.

• 1:07:08Patrick Bet-David?

  And so you never hit John?

• 1:07:10Speaker 04

  I didn't hit any of them. I shook the Ryan, I think his name was Ryan.

• 1:07:14Patrick Bet-David?

  So you never punched anyone in the face, not on the plate or the other guy that came up to you?

• 1:07:18Speaker 04

  The guy that came up to me, yeah, he tried to attack me on the court. I didn't tell, I didn't punch none of these guys. These guys, I just shook them. I just held him like, don't you ever throw no cup at me. Play it right from here? Right, and then John punched. Okay, you don't punch, well, you're trying to slap him a little bit. I'm like, don't you ever throw.

• 1:07:31Patrick Bet-David?

  And that's John holding you back?

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, John. Someone threw another. And then somebody threw another.

• 1:07:35Patrick Bet-David?

  No, that's Jackson.

• 1:07:36Speaker 04

  This is the greatest fight in NBA history, I mean. Right. And then John punches me in my face, from behind, right there, now he's punching me in my face.

• 1:07:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you joking? John punching you in the face?

• 1:07:46Speaker 04

  He punched me in my face.

• 1:07:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Go back a little bit, I've never seen this, John punching you in the face.

• 1:07:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's punching me in my face, right there, right now. Look, look at that, you see that thing?

• 1:07:53Patrick Bet-David?

  I saw that, I saw that.

• 1:07:54Speaker 04

  That's me getting punched in the face.

• 1:07:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow, so John, what did John do? Was John a tough guy or just a fan?

• 1:08:01Speaker 04

  Like, so John, so, when you, I was so depressed after this, so years has passed, just, um, pause it for a second, then you can go. So, what happened was, um, in 2007, I was trying to become like, undepressed, so, I started to reach out to everybody in that area, in the, in the situation. So I reached out to John, we actually had a conversation, became like, friends. You know, so, but John's situation, um, he was a AAA, he was already in AAA at this point.

• 1:08:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 1:08:31Speaker 04

  He wasn't even supposed to be drinking.

• 1:08:34Speaker 04

  I learned a lot about John, can we friends? And, um, and he was also going through a little bit of, uh, issues with his family also. So it was also, it's a backstory to him that I'm, I'm also sympathetic, even though he, he lost me huh, tens, tens and tens of millions of dollars. I lost so much money, so much opportunity cost, but that don't really affect me as much as his story. You know, I'm, I'm more like, he was going through stuff too. And I'm on the board of UCLA psychiatric where I have a soft spot for people that's going through stuff. So, which is unfortunate, but it's just how, it's just how I made up.

• 1:09:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow. So Rob, keep playing it, keep playing it. So, so, so.

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  But yeah, in this moment.

• 1:09:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Lower the audio a little bit, Rob, because we can hear it. So, okay, at this point, it's going back and forth.

• 1:09:18Speaker 04

  At this point, it's back and forth.

• 1:09:19Patrick Bet-David?

  So by the way, did Ben and you, had the Ben at all hit you, did any of the Pistons at all hit you during this?

• 1:09:24Speaker 04

  Well, Ben was just throwing his, uh, Ben, his wristbands when I was on the table.

• 1:09:28Patrick Bet-David?

  It's tough to hurt you with wristbands.

• 1:09:30Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, it was, it should have been a tech.

• 1:09:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So you're now here.

• 1:09:33Speaker 04

  That's Wes. Wes, Wes got me, I almost got pepper sprayed. I didn't even know it. The cop was coming up to pepper spray me and the guy that's holding me, worldwide Wes.

• 1:09:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, worldwide Wes.

• 1:09:45Speaker 04

  Worldwide Wes, that's worldwide Wes. If it wasn't for him, I would have got pepper sprayed and arrested on the floor.

• 1:09:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Larry Brown is coaching.

• 1:09:51Speaker 04

  Him right there, Wes, right there.

• 1:09:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Stay on the right.

• 1:09:52Speaker 04

  Pause it, pause it. Him, Wes got me. If you see the tape, you'll see the cop had the pepper spray. Because the guy, when I got back down to the floor, then the other fans tried to punch me. Two fans jumped me. Two more fans, they jumped me. They, they literally jumped me.

• 1:10:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, Rob, if you go back in the other clip, the other clip will show the two fans trying to jump him. The one that was, yeah, that's the one right there. Watch this. So this, keep it playing. Let it, let it go. Okay. So boom, that's that. And then this is when it drink hits.

• 1:10:26Speaker 04

  Man, what a disaster.

• 1:10:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. And then it starts.

• 1:10:31Patrick Bet-David?

  And there's John.

• 1:10:32Speaker 04

  See, John was like, ooh. See, John, see, John.

• 1:10:35Patrick Bet-David?

  And then this is it.

• 1:10:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, this guy came and attacked me. Yeah, who's this guy?

• 1:10:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, he knocked him out.

• 1:10:38Speaker 04

  How are they on the floor? That's my point.

• 1:10:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Boom, and then Jermaine O'Neal.

• 1:10:41Speaker 04

  Jermaine O'Neal comes and starts knocking people out?

• 1:10:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, yeah, so he slips, but he punches.

• 1:10:44Speaker 04

  You see what I'm saying? And they like, at what point?

• 1:10:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that Chuck Person?

• 1:10:47Speaker 04

  That's Chuck, yeah, that's my guy.

• 1:10:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Trying to get him out, Chuck was a great shooter, man.

• 1:10:51Speaker 04

  Chuck and Reggie, Chuck was incredible. Chuck was a shooter? Yeah, so this game was, uh... Oh, now they're pouring drinks on you? Scott Pollard.

• 1:10:57Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, they just did that to DeMarcus Cousins a couple days ago. I saw that, so let's, let's...

• 1:11:01Speaker 04

  Mike Brown.

• 1:11:02Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so, okay, Ron, Meta, you, this ends.

• 1:11:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:07Patrick Bet-David?

  They stop the game, it's over. Like, everyone's going home, nothing's gonna be happening. You're in the locker room, like, what's going on in the locker room now? What's going on with the chaos?

• 1:11:16Speaker 04

  Well, it was like, yeah, the locker room was weird because, well, for me, I worked so hard. I was, I was in therapy, I'm doing everything I gotta do, you know, I'm on the table, I'm not, I'm not engaging with Ben. You know, that's all things I practice in therapy, so I'm like, so I'm like, I'm in the locker room, like, no way that this has happened, so, so much is going through my head, like, I'm averaging 24, you know? I'm gonna be an All-Star again, I'm gonna be a first-team All-Defense again, you know? All this is about to happen, you know? We're gonna be the best team in the league again. This is, you're talking about when Iverson was in the East. You're talking about when Kobe was in the league, we had the best record when Shaq was, they was in the league at this point in time. You understand what I'm saying?

• 1:11:56Speaker 04

  So, this is legacy right here, so, when I got into that locker room, I asked Steve, and I said, I think, I asked Steve and Jamal, kind of a general question, I said, "You think we're gonna get in trouble?" 'Cause I'm just like, if this is, if I, if I, if I know David Stern, and if this is what I think it is, I am done. And I, and then Steve was like, "Yeah, we are done." I was like, "God, my goodness." So, I, you know, so it was, it was like, it was definitely the worst day, that was probably the worst day of my life, for sure. And then also now, the worst day of my life was in 1999, not getting drafted by the Knicks.

• 1:12:30Patrick Bet-David?

  It's the second worst day of your life.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  Are you saying you were already in therapy prior to that fight? Yeah, so, I had anger management problems, as we all know, so...

• 1:12:41Speaker 04

  Nah.

• 1:12:44Speaker 04

  I kinda don't wanna make a joke about this now. Hey, man, it's okay. It's okay, man. You, that guy, no. We could do a whole stand-up show and it's honestly brought to you by ValueTainment, man.

• 1:12:57Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, MVP voting that year, Nash is one, Shaq's two. That's the one where Shaq's like, he thought he took it from him. Dirk is three, Duncan is four.

• 1:13:06Speaker 04

  AI?

• 1:13:07Patrick Bet-David?

  AI, LeBron, McGrady, Wade.

• 1:13:09Speaker 04

  Not this year, not this year.

• 1:13:10Patrick Bet-David?

  So maybe, is that oh three, oh four, is that oh three, oh four, oh five?

• 1:13:13Speaker 04

  Oh, sorry, no. Alright, so this is after I got, I'm talking about oh three, oh four. Yeah, this is oh four, oh five.

• 1:13:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, four, Garnett, Duncan, Jermaine O'Neal.

• 1:13:22Speaker 04

  What else to say?

• 1:13:23Patrick Bet-David?

  And then Peja Stojakovic, Kobe, Shaq, Ben Wallace, Kidd.

• 1:13:27Speaker 04

  For MVP?

• 1:13:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, oh three, uh, this is oh three, oh four.

• 1:13:30Speaker 04

  I thought I finished sixth.

• 1:13:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, let me check one of, maybe it's a different one I'm looking at.

• 1:13:34Speaker 04

  No, you might be looking at the right one, maybe I could be wrong. I thought I finished sixth in MVP voting. But... Cause we was the...

• 1:13:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So, but, but this happens. This is what I'm trying to get, Adam. What I'm trying to find out is the locker room after this.

• 1:13:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Is, is Brown even in the locker room? Is he talking to you guys?

• 1:13:47Speaker 04

  Oh, Larry Brown?

• 1:13:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:48Speaker 04

  He's the other coach.

• 1:13:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was your coach? Is Carlisle saying anything to you guys?

• 1:13:52Speaker 04

  Carlisle's trying to calm everybody down.

• 1:13:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, he knows it's done, the season's, he's, he's about to lose two of you guys.

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  Well, at that point, it was so wild and the fans, we, we wasn't even thinking about that. We was thinking about getting out the, getting out that building. You know? That was, that, that was, so that, at that point, we know something has happened, so Carlisle was just trying to calm everybody down and not let it escalate anymore. It was wild, it was a wild time. That's what everybody, we all knew we was done.

• 1:14:18Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what's Miller, is Reggie Miller in the locker room talking to you guys?

• 1:14:21Speaker 04

  Uh, people was outside the doors, the people was everywhere. Everybody's outside the doors.

• 1:14:25Patrick Bet-David?

  How, how long?

• 1:14:26Speaker 04

  I was in, I just, I went to my seat.

• 1:14:27Patrick Bet-David?

  How long from you leaving, like, right there where they're pouring everything on you, throwing everything on you, to you guys in the locker room, shower, leaving? How long is that time?

• 1:14:36Speaker 04

  Oh, that might have been an hour, oh, oh, it might have been an hour.

• 1:14:40Patrick Bet-David?

  So you guys have an hour together?

• 1:14:41Speaker 04

  Well, they wanted to arrest us.

• 1:14:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you kidding me?

• 1:14:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, somebody, because you guys, you know, people say, hey, Matt, why you didn't sue? Like, that's not even in my makeup to sue, you know, you know, people sue, it's not even in my makeup, but I think you had, any, that could have went south for, um, the businesses. There's a lot of lawsuits that could have happened, you know? We, none of us filed any lawsuits. You know, now, some of the people like this guy, the guy that, um, hit me, not Ben, the other fan, tried to file a lawsuit.

• 1:15:14Patrick Bet-David?

  He did?

• 1:15:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, he came on, both of them tried to file a lawsuit. This guy? Any of, both of them. Look at these guys. Look at these guys. They were...

• 1:15:21Patrick Bet-David?

  What happened? Any luck or nothing?

• 1:15:22Speaker 04

  No luck. No luck.

• 1:15:24Patrick Bet-David?

  So that's good that they didn't side with them though.

• 1:15:26Speaker 04

  The district attorney of Detroit was incredible. Huh. The judge was like a little bit like, the media got to the judge, it was, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't...

• 1:15:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was the best player on the team at that time? Is it Reggie?

• 1:15:37Speaker 04

  On that, on that team?

• 1:15:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  No, me and Jermaine.

• 1:15:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, really?

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. Not, not no like that, but Reggie, Reggie was, oh, this is Reggie's second to last year.

• 1:15:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Was this the year where it's kinda like, hey, this is a shot for Reggie to win the chip?

• 1:15:51Speaker 04

  This was the year, for sure. I mean, I was, I was the leading scorer on the team.

• 1:15:56Adam Sosnick?

  Well, man, I saw a clip, speaking of Reggie, I don't know if you were in it, I think Stephen Jackson was in it, where they apologized to him and Reggie started crying.

• 1:16:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I saw that, I saw that.

• 1:16:07Adam Sosnick?

  Because he's like, nah, it's not your fault.

• 1:16:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, we felt bad for you.

• 1:16:10Adam Sosnick?

  It was like, super emotional.

• 1:16:12Patrick Bet-David?

  It's very emotional, it is.

• 1:16:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:13Adam Sosnick?

  Were you in that or was that just Stephen Jackson?

• 1:16:15Speaker 04

  Nah, that was just Steve and Reggie, that was just Steve and Reggie.

• 1:16:16Adam Sosnick?

  Okay, he's apologizing, saying, I knew this was your last chance, and we kinda ruined it with the malice to palace thing.

• 1:16:22Speaker 04

  I ruined it, but Steve is saying we ruined, Steve's just being nice.

• 1:16:27Speaker 04

  Like, Steve was just being a little bit nice. Um, it was definitely probably the majority of my fault.

• 1:16:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that it, Rob?

• 1:16:36Speaker 06

  Yeah. I'm glad to see you, because this, I've never had a chance to tell you that I'm sorry. Uh, just let me finish though, because like, I, we all understood what our motivation was for that season.

• 1:16:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:16:48Speaker 06

  It wasn't for us, it was for you.

• 1:16:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:16:51Speaker 06

  The whole motivation was for getting things done the right way and getting the championship.

• 1:16:55Speaker 04

  We wanted to bring Reggie away.

• 1:16:56Speaker 06

  I never got a chance to apologize to you for my actions. Now, with me saying that, I love you even more because you defended me, because you knew that I was just being a loyal teammate. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't out there being a thug and nothing like that, so it meant a lot to me. That's why I gotta take a drink, cuz...

• 1:17:13Speaker 05

  Told you I didn't want to go there, man.

• 1:17:15Speaker 06

  I'm trying to hold mine in.

• 1:17:17Speaker 05

  You don't need to say that to me, man. Come on, man. So, you don't need to apologize to me.

• 1:17:22Patrick Bet-David?

  This is a beautiful moment.

• 1:17:23Speaker 05

  You young cats, when I say young, I mean Jamal, Jermaine, Al, yourself, Ron. Those last few years in Indiana, my best years. I didn't have my superpowers, but I felt, and you guys made me feel like I was super bad. We had some dogs, man. We had a squad that was arguably, and I played on some Indiana teams that were destined, should have, could have, but always came short. That team, we were stacked, man.

• 1:17:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, that team was crazy. We was definitely, you know, that team was incredible. And I was in my prime on the wing, like, nobody was getting nothing off. But yeah, you know, that's why I didn't really want to fight Ben or why I was trying to go to Scruggs table. I was in therapy, so after my practices, after every practice, I had to go to therapy. You understand? So that's like going to, so that's what I did after every practice. So from that perspective, what Jack was saying was was 100% right. So, I can take the blame because I didn't expect anybody to hit me. Like, I was preparing for other things, like on court. Not getting texts, not being detrimental to the team.

• 1:18:39Speaker 04

  The fan thing was like, I never saw that coming. Never saw that coming. Caught me off guard.

• 1:18:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So, can you imagine? You know, I watched the game and I think about when, we're talking today, when was the favorite era watching the NBA? I'm like, you know, 90s, early, mid 2000, and that's it. After that, it was, you know, of course, 2010, Lakers were winning. I was good, Kobe, all that stuff, I'm good. After Kobe, I'm done with the NBA. I don't have any interest in the NBA. I've not rooted for anything. I've been out, right? But to me, there's one thing that, and I wonder what you'll say about this. The one thing that made the game, like, right now, okay, WNBA. Stats came out today. I don't know if you saw the stats that came out today. Since Katelyn Clark's been injured.

• 1:19:25Speaker 04

  I saw that.

• 1:19:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Viewership has been down 55% since she's been injured, right?

• 1:19:30Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:19:30Patrick Bet-David?

  But guess what?

• 1:19:31Speaker 04

  For the league.

• 1:19:32Patrick Bet-David?

  53% decline, 55% decline since her injury. Since her injury, right?

• 1:19:39Speaker 04

  Man.

• 1:19:39Patrick Bet-David?

  And you got Angela, is it Angela Reese? Angel Reese, right? And she's very good at getting rebounds off her missed shots, and she stacks those a lot, but she's... So these guys, but there is animosity in the game.

• 1:19:52Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:19:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Right? There's a level of animosity in the game where fans, who would, I would never watch WNBA.

• 1:19:59Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:19:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Now you're like, dude.

• 1:20:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, Katelyn's captivating.

• 1:20:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Katelyn's captivating, and she's a good villain. So it's kinda like going back and forth, seeing what's gonna happen. Do you think the NBA, maybe you're gonna disagree with this. The game today, eh, I don't know. It is what it is. Man, there was villains back then. There was animosity back then. It was true, you know, like, I remember when Jordan wanted to go out and hang out with Oakley, and Pat Riley's like, no, you can't go do that. He's trying to soften you up, become friends with you. We're not doing that. There was a certain element of that. Do you miss that? Do you think it'll ever have that, or do you think it's just kinda like, you know?

• 1:20:39Speaker 04

  It's back now.

• 1:20:40Patrick Bet-David?

  You think it is?

• 1:20:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's back. If you look at the league now, it's aggressive. There's people that don't talk to each other. It's back. It's just that people that's not watching, they're basing their, you know, kinda comments and opinions on two years ago, three years ago, because that's what it was. But if you watch now, the league is really physical. And there's people that do not talk to each other.

• 1:21:04Patrick Bet-David?

  They're cool. Give me, and I love that.

• 1:21:05Speaker 04

  I don't know exactly, but I'm watching the games, and you can tell, like, for example, Halliburton. The players called him the most overrated player. He's the most overrated, a poll, a player poll.

• 1:21:17Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right, I saw that.

• 1:21:18Speaker 04

  Cause he talks a lot of trash. He, he's not making friends with a lot of people out there. He's, you know, so right now the league is, um, is coming back and, but I think people that got turned off, they haven't watched recently. Cause right now is incredible.

• 1:21:30Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think caused the NBA to be turned off? It's the lowest viewership since 1988. Lowest viewership in a final, of course, two small markets, I get that, but it's the lowest viewership from 1988. What caused it?

• 1:21:42Speaker 04

  I think, uh, the change, I think because it's a global game, right? And I think, now the money's don't hire because.

• 1:21:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, I'm not talking viewership. What I'm talking about is what caused animosity to leave? Cause the, the leaving of the animosity wasn't because of Kobe. Kobe was all animosity. It happened after Kobe with LeBron. What caused animosity to be gone in the NBA?

• 1:22:02Speaker 04

  As a fan?

• 1:22:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Just the game doesn't, it's like, everyone's friends. Everyone's like, oh, you know, me and Chris Paul are hanging out.

• 1:22:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Stuff you watch him with the camera, like, I wanna know you don't like each other. I wanna know there's a fight. I wanna know there's, like, you know, the greatest UFC fight ever? You know what it was? It's fricking, you know, Khabib against Connor. Dude, Khabib wanted to kill him. He wanted to, and so as a fan, it's the most viewed fight ever in the history of UFC. And, and today it's kinda like, yeah, whatever. You know, you know, we'll see what's gonna happen. It's a little soft. And then by the way, I, I don't disagree with you on how it is. I think Shay's a little bit calm. He's not, uh, he's not steering the pot and creating excitement. He's like, no, we'll be fine. No, we'll be this versus Halliburton's like, dad's getting kicked out.

• 1:22:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Dad's talking shit. He's doing this. He's making fun of his dad's pants and you're, you're kinda seeing that a little bit with him. But what caused the game to be softer?

• 1:23:01Speaker 04

  Well, I think, um, I think how we left the game, the, is the rules. I think, um, people were trying to move the game forward. I think. They wanted to remove themselves from our era. And then a lot of the fabric has changed, the fabric was changing actually. And then you saw more people buddy buddy on other teams, more people before games laughing, talking. I mean, even Elton Brand, my best, one of my best friends who I love to this day, like literally. You guys fought in AAU, you and Elton Brand got into a fight one time. We got to fight on the same team. You and Lamar Odom together, yeah. We got, me and Elton got in a fight on the same team on the label line. And that, that came from playing against each other. And then also in our practices, our Riverside Church practices. Wow.

• 1:23:44Speaker 04

  Which was really intense. I was always an intense in practice. And, you know, I think, um, you know, we were always taught no friends. So if I'm, so me and Elton, we got drafted together with the Bulls. When we was playing against each other in practice, in Chicago, I mean, Elton is a big, strong boy. You gotta watch out for Elton. Clippers, yeah, he used to be. He a big, strong boy, you know, and a, and a man, you know. Was Elton Brand Clippers or? Clippers also, also played very well. Yeah. He averaged twenty and ten, I think, for his career. He's an underrated, underrated player. Very underrated. But you know, so from that perspective, we, we, we came up under the era of competing. You know, when me and Lamar would play against each other, who's a really great friend, I wasn't making friends with Lamar.

• 1:24:27Speaker 04

  You know, I wasn't trying to say, yo, what you doing after, after this for dinner? You weren't that guy? No, not at all. And those are like closest friends. And then you had some other people, I don't know you, I definitely am not trying to get dinner with you or lunch or anything. But I think the good thing about being friends, because a lot of players miss out on opportunities to do business together too. So you talking about having a ten year career, no friends. You know, that's so much opportunities where you could be. So you're actually, you're saying it's more strategic if you are friends to do more business? You should be friends, honestly. Now, you can still compete. But, you know, go co-invest together, like, imagine if we're not talking as athletes. We can co-invest about real estate, doing this stuff together.

• 1:25:10Speaker 04

  So I think LeBron started, I didn't wanna go right at LeBron, but LeBron started the friendship.

• 1:25:18Speaker 04

  But I think he was on to something. But at some point in time, you gotta compete. So I think, I think now's a better balance. You know, I think now's a better balance.

• 1:25:25Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know, man. I, I gotta tell you, I, I don't, I don't, I don't, I, I don't like that. So I'm gonna show you this. I just wanna know how you're gonna react to it, okay? When you played against Michael or Kobe, okay? Can you ever visualize Michael or Kobe doing things like this? I just want you to watch this and just give me your thoughts on it. I mean, you're, you're, you're, like, obviously, that's, that's a flagrant two, at least. Right? That's a, that's a hard foul on LeBron for him to fall that way. Look at that. What happened right there? You think Michael and Kobe are gonna react that way? Let, let it continue. Let it keep going. I just wanna get your thoughts. Let it play, Rob, cuz it's gonna keep showing you more of these.

• 1:26:03Speaker 04

  I love LeBron.

• 1:26:04Patrick Bet-David?

  I know you do. I know it's your guy. Okay, so let's watch this.

• 1:26:07Speaker 04

  Sorry, LeBron, I'ma comment on this.

• 1:26:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Watch this one here. Look at that. What a hard foul by Paul George. Knocked him out like 20 feet to... Here's another one for you. Watch this one. Watch this one. Watch this one. You know, I, I, I, you know, I don't know... Look at this.

• 1:26:27Patrick Bet-David?

  And that's his boy, Chris Paul, by the way. They're friends. Look at that. Chris is like, they're both great actors. Maybe that was kinda like, I wanna show you I'm a better actor than you.

• 1:26:39Patrick Bet-David?

  No one's touched him. You can pause it at this point. Meta, be honest, man. You see this stuff, deep down inside, do you watch this and say, this is part of the strategy, Pat? This is what you don't understand as a fan. He's been strategic.

• 1:26:51Speaker 04

  It's a strategy.

• 1:26:52Patrick Bet-David?

  It is a strategy.

• 1:26:53Speaker 04

  Where does strategy come from? It comes from the rule changes. It comes from changing the culture. It's not the player's fault. It's the, it's, it's the referee's fault.

• 1:27:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Why doesn't Katelyn Clark do this? She gets fouled all the time. She stands up. Why doesn't...

• 1:27:07Speaker 04

  She's a different breed. Katelyn's a different breed.

• 1:27:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so then that, that's the point.

• 1:27:10Speaker 04

  Katelyn, Katelyn's a different breed. She's old school.

• 1:27:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Katelyn's a different breed.

• 1:27:15Speaker 04

  Katelyn's old school. Katelyn's tough. She's old school. She's a different breed.

• 1:27:18Patrick Bet-David?

  No shit.

• 1:27:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, she's a different, she's from Iowa.

• 1:27:20Patrick Bet-David?

  She's Indiana.

• 1:27:21Speaker 04

  She's from Iowa. She can shoot though. She's a shooter.

• 1:27:22Patrick Bet-David?

  For sure. Yeah, she can shoot. But have you seen when she gets fouled, what she does?

• 1:27:26Speaker 04

  She...

• 1:27:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Boom! She jumps up.

• 1:27:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Like, she doesn't want you to feel like you hurt her.

• 1:27:30Speaker 04

  I was talking to one of the owners of the Fever, and they were like, "Katelyn's getting fouled so much." And I said, "Don't worry about Katelyn." She said, "Yeah, but they're gonna hurt her." I said, "Don't worry about her. She is gonna be fine." She's not worried. But you know, I think, so I think when the referees are calling these flops, you know, that's where you say, "Oh, they're gonna call flops? Well, I'll do it too."

• 1:27:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know about that, bro.

• 1:27:57Speaker 04

  But you got, but if they're flopping and the ref is calling foul...

• 1:28:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, but that, that is, but again, like, two, two... Okay, so let me ask you this.

• 1:28:05Speaker 04

  Take advantage of the rules.

• 1:28:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask you. Michael Kobe plays today. You think they're gonna flop the way they did, the way this guy does?

• 1:28:10Speaker 04

  Um, I don't think so, but I do think if the ref, the rules wasn't like that, you couldn't even do that. You see what I'm saying? The rules wasn't even different.

• 1:28:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Watch this here. This is Katelyn. I'm only showing this against LeBron because she's from Indiana. I want to give you credit, but watch this. Boom. What does she do? Up. No foul. Okay. Oh, oh, oh. That was actually a dirty foul.

• 1:28:29Speaker 04

  That was, yeah, that one, that one, you might have to use a different one. I mean, maybe not. That's above the neck, though.

• 1:28:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Here, watch this. Watch this. Boom, boom, boom. Okay, what does she do? Boom.

• 1:28:39Speaker 04

  She's a different breed.

• 1:28:40Patrick Bet-David?

  She like, doesn't want you to think she's hurt.

• 1:28:43Speaker 04

  No, I love her, yo. She's incredible.

• 1:28:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Ooh, that's tough. I mean, he punched her in the face.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  Katelyn was like, "Don't help me up. I love Katelyn. She's incredible."

• 1:28:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you see, and again, to me, a part, look at that.

• 1:28:54Speaker 04

  Let's see it, but she gonna do it.

• 1:28:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Look at this. She got a hit upside the head, semi-punched upside the head, and what does she do?

• 1:28:59Speaker 04

  She's getting her senses back.

• 1:29:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah! And so, you can pause it right there. A part of me as a fan, and maybe this is just me as a fan, man. Dude, do you know, like I was telling this guy earlier, okay? So you're a hater, you're this, you're that. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a Kobe, diehard Laker. I go back Ron, I mean, I go back, Sedell treat, I go back Van X, Anthony Peeler, lefty, elbow, you know, I'm.

• 1:29:27Speaker 04

  That's how I am with the Bulls, like Will Perdue, Nicky Simkins, like.

• 1:29:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Wellington, all these guys.

• 1:29:32Speaker 04

  Wellington, those are my guys.

• 1:29:34Patrick Bet-David?

  But you know, you watch, I, I so wanna come back to being a diehard fan of the game and it's just few things about it drives me.

• 1:29:43Speaker 04

  I think you might wanna start watching, I think, I think if you wanna come back to start watching the game, I think it's shifting, it's a huge shift. Right now, it's a huge shift, they're not calling fouls, you gotta watch some of these, I don't know if you watched the playoffs this yet?

• 1:29:56Patrick Bet-David?

  I did.

• 1:29:57Speaker 04

  And I don't know if you've seen the whole.

• 1:29:58Patrick Bet-David?

  They're letting them play and I love it, they're letting them play.

• 1:30:00Speaker 04

  It's slowly coming back.

• 1:30:01Patrick Bet-David?

  They're letting them play, yeah, so that's, that's a part of it.

• 1:30:03Speaker 04

  We gotta get it back to the American game. We can't, like, yeah, let over and foreign people come into the, let them come play, right? But it was a point in time when like Dragic and Petrovic, where they earned, you seen Dragic getting somebody's face? He wasn't backing down, he came into the American game.

• 1:30:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you play against him?

• 1:30:23Speaker 04

  I didn't play against.

• 1:30:23Patrick Bet-David?

  He was a Jersey, he played for New Jersey Nets.

• 1:30:25Speaker 04

  He played for Jersey, I would have overlapped it with him if he didn't, you know, he passed away early.

• 1:30:28Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:29Speaker 04

  But yeah, we gotta, we gotta get, we gotta get the American game back.

• 1:30:32Patrick Bet-David?

  The way they talk about him, have you heard stories about Dragic and what they say about this guy?

• 1:30:36Adam Sosnick?

  Oh yeah, he was incredible player.

• 1:30:37Speaker 04

  Now he was sick.

• 1:30:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, well, not only.

• 1:30:39Adam Sosnick?

  He died in a car accident, I wanna say, what happened?

• 1:30:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it was, it was a rough situation, what happened with them?

• 1:30:43Adam Sosnick?

  Incredible player right there.

• 1:30:44Patrick Bet-David?

  So, go ahead, Adam, I think you got a question.

• 1:30:46Adam Sosnick?

  I think you were, you were alluding to, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, you're saying that the European game is a little more soft than the American game, you're saying we wanna get back to the American game?

• 1:30:55Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:30:56Adam Sosnick?

  The European game?

• 1:30:57Speaker 04

  I'm not saying the European game is soft, it's different, but we gotta get, in America, we gotta get to our American game.

• 1:31:01Adam Sosnick?

  What do you think, speaking of that, what do you think the, the reason is that only non-Americans are winning the MVP?

• 1:31:12Speaker 04

  It's because.

• 1:31:13Adam Sosnick?

  I think it's been Jokic.

• 1:31:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:31:15Adam Sosnick?

  Um, Shay, it's been Giannis.

• 1:31:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:31:19Adam Sosnick?

  It's been, um, who else has won it recently?

• 1:31:24Adam Sosnick?

  Did Luca win an MVP or no?

• 1:31:25Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:31:26Adam Sosnick?

  Okay. Giannis, Luca, no, sorry, now Luca.

• 1:31:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:31:31Adam Sosnick?

  Shay, Jokic, oh, Joel Embiid, I want to say, he was, he's Cameroon, I want to say. Point is, when's the last time that an American-born player has won the MVP? What are your thoughts on the game change in less Americans being the man now?

• 1:31:44Speaker 04

  Because in America, we have a culture problem. And it's seeping into our sports now. The culture problem is, we're not on the same page. And because we're not on the same page, we, good or bad, we rather not help each other and let someone else come in and creep up and grab territory, grab opportunity. This has happened outside of sports also, right? This happened outside of sports, and that's the problem with basketball is, for example, we'll send our players overseas, we'll help the overseas players get better, they come back here. What do we do in America?

• 1:32:23Speaker 04

  We send our grown men who just left college to go play against a 15-year-old Luca, right? Because they're playing overseas, but our 15-year-old kids can't play pro. Well, who do you think is going to get better? The 15-year-old kid playing against men. You see what I'm saying? And we're not, we're not collaborating with, like, former pros, like myself and others to help the game. So for that, we need to, it's too many gatekeepers in American sports. And you can see it now, we, you know, we're losing, I want to see us get back on top. Like, I really enjoy the foreigners and foreign players, I enjoy it, but not at the expense of us. Give us a shot.

• 1:33:06Speaker 04

  For example, another example, if an American player goes overseas, only two or three people can play on the team. If overseas players come to America, you can have a whole team full of overseas players.

• 1:33:17Patrick Bet-David?

  That's the Mavs, that's what Mark Cuban did.

• 1:33:20Speaker 04

  You can have a whole team full of overseas players. So now, our American players can go overseas and maximize their dollar, their, you know...

• 1:33:28Speaker 04

  Right, because there's no spot, but they can come over here and make a hundred million dollars.

• 1:33:32Patrick Bet-David?

  That's kinda like, you know, how the relationship between China and US with tariffs. Like, China can come here, do business with everybody, but hey, you know, a lot of our companies can't do business in China and, you know, they're not held to the same standards.

• 1:33:43Speaker 04

  I actually text my buddy RFK, I wanna actually, this is a huge, this is a really important issue. If you love sports, you know, I'm not a, this is an important issue to me, where I need, we need to be on an even playing field. Right, so now it's like, this is actually, um, uh, what do you call it, not global, not tourism, um, diplomacy. This is, this needs to be brought up, they gotta open the borders in terms of, give our American players opportunity to go to China, Japan, Europe, and open it up, or now only two players can play in on.

• 1:34:15Adam Sosnick?

  You're an open border guy?

• 1:34:17Speaker 04

  I'm talking about.

• 1:34:17Adam Sosnick?

  Shut that thing down.

• 1:34:18Speaker 04

  Sports, sports, sports, sports.

• 1:34:21Adam Sosnick?

  I know, I'm joking with you. Can I give you another philosophy? I wanna know what you think about this. Could it be that a lot of American players are way more focused on doing it for the gram than actually putting in the work? As an example, there's guys who made it to the NBA or never made it to the NBA, and they've been so focused on social media. There's a kid named Mikey. Mikey, you've seen this kid?

• 1:34:44Speaker 04

  No, no, no.

• 1:34:44Adam Sosnick?

  Mikey Williams, I wanna say. This kid had five million Instagram followers before he even made it to college, this kid.

• 1:34:50Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:51Adam Sosnick?

  Bronny James, talk about being coordinated before you've done anything.

• 1:34:55Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:34:55Adam Sosnick?

  You know, there's another kid, Amari Bailey. A lot of these guys get famous, cuz they could dunk, they could jump out the gym. They're getting millions of Instagram followers, but they don't develop a mid-range, they're not playing D. It's, you know, they're, they're doing the dunk thing, and maybe they're shooting threes, and by the time they're 18, they're tatted up. They're just, you know, pseudo celebrities. I think this guy's literally in jail right now.

• 1:35:18Speaker 04

  Are you serious?

• 1:35:19Adam Sosnick?

  Find out Mikey Williams where he's at right now, I think he got suspended from a team, I don't know. I don't know what happened to him is my point.

• 1:35:24Speaker 04

  And this is, and this is the disconnect, because it's too many.

• 1:35:27Adam Sosnick?

  He got body jail time after being arrested for firing a gun at a car, a car full of people.

• 1:35:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you joking?

• 1:35:31Adam Sosnick?

  Okay, so here's a kid who's been talked about since he's a freshman as being the best player to, to come out of high school, but now where is he to be found? How much you think social media has been an effect on these, uh, young kids trying to get to the league?

• 1:35:45Speaker 04

  I think it's been an effect, um, I think also. They gotta lean on the veterans. There's veterans out there that played this game, myself, others, that can help these young players, but because there's so much money involved, they detach. They keep, keep it out, keep you away, and then they just, you know, you know, nurture these players and we can't go in there and help. We, we should, us veterans that played, we should be in there, "Hey, young fella, how you doing? Hey, young fella, how you doing?" So, like I said, it's a, it's a culture, it's a total culture problem in sport that needs to be, if we want to see it get better.

• 1:36:20Adam Sosnick?

  They also, this is my opinion, might look at you and say, "Man, well, you don't know what it's like." So, for instance, I always find it so shocking, "Mikey, this kid's done nothing." Five million followers, then we have some guy, Steve Francis, one of the greatest point guards I've ever, maybe he has like 30,000 Instagram followers. So, don't be fooled by the gram is what I'm saying.

• 1:36:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:36:40Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know, I don't know if that, that correlates to what, what I'm talking about with the league. I think it's a very, uh, different, uh, comparison of, of combining what I'm saying, what happened with the NBA.

• 1:36:50Adam Sosnick?

  No, no.

• 1:36:50Patrick Bet-David?

  All I, I want to see animosity. I want to see fight. I want to see confrontation. I want to see all, uh, Ron, you know, it's funny, you, you, when was your rookie year, 99?

• 1:37:00Speaker 04

  99.

• 1:37:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Rodman retired 2000, but you guys never played against each other.

• 1:37:04Speaker 04

  I'm so pissed at Rodman, man. The day I was gonna play against Rodman, Mark Cuban, released him because he got in trouble. I'm like, Rodman, I can't believe he did that to me.

• 1:37:16Patrick Bet-David?

  The day you're gonna play against him, he released him and you never played against him?

• 1:37:18Speaker 04

  Maybe the day before or something like that. He got in trouble, they released him from the Mavs, and it was, I was, I was just, I was ready to go see him.

• 1:37:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was he to you?

• 1:37:25Speaker 04

  Rodman's my favorite player. He's my favorite player. Rodman's my favorite player.

• 1:37:29Patrick Bet-David?

  91, 91.

• 1:37:29Speaker 04

  Like, 91, 91, like, it's, it's quite a coincidence, I got, um, suspended in Detroit, where he played at, but, but Rodman, I wanted to, I wanted to win a championship that year for Rodman, Reggie, and then also it was gonna be Rodman.

• 1:37:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure. Do you think right now, if the, if the Indiana Pacers win, do you think Reggie, deep down, like, do you guys, Steven, you, Reggie, deep down inside, do you want to see Pacers win? Is the pride, is it?

• 1:37:55Speaker 04

  No, listen, let me tell you something. Yes, 100%. So, when they win, we win. That's how we feel. We was all at the game yesterday. We all at the game, everybody. Ow. Pacers was in the building. We got two more games and we need them.

• 1:38:08Patrick Bet-David?

  You were at the game yesterday?

• 1:38:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I came here for you. I'm leaving tomorrow morning and go back to Indiana.

• 1:38:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Dude, if you guys win, this is...

• 1:38:16Speaker 04

  No, we need to win. We're gonna win. Listen, that ring, it's gonna be, those players, if they win it, they don't know how good that's gonna feel to us. We need them to win because then it's just gonna validate who we were. If they don't win, then as an organization, as a collective, it's, you know...

• 1:38:39Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a similar style of a team though. It's like it's a dogfight. It's not like, if you ask the average person who's the second best player on the Pacers, they have to think about it a little bit. You gotta think about it.

• 1:38:50Speaker 04

  Carlisle is the guy. See, don't forget about Rick Carlisle. This is not taking anything away from the players, but Carlisle's the superstar here. They have a superstar.

• 1:38:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 1:39:01Speaker 04

  And let me tell you what's happening with the game. Since the game is going back...

• 1:39:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Because the malice at the Palace was Carlisle.

• 1:39:05Speaker 04

  It was Carlisle.

• 1:39:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, that is so ins... so fast forward.

• 1:39:10Speaker 04

  Yeah. Big.

• 1:40:12Patrick Bet-David?

  That is intense to go from there. By the way, I pulled up some fun facts about you. Some of these things are pretty crazy, okay? And you tell me if these are true or not, okay? One by one by one. First one, did you really apply to work at Circuit City, your rookie year, when you're working, when you're playing for the Bulls, just to get a discount?

• 1:40:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yes. And I was a good worker.

• 1:40:30Patrick Bet-David?

  How much money was Bulls paying you? Were they not paying you enough to just stay?

• 1:40:34Speaker 04

  It wasn't that... Well, if you're getting 999,000 in your rookie contract, after tax, it's, you know, it's not a lot of money. It's like, anybody that's getting 500,000 a year after tax, they're probably, they probably still have services, right? You have services, you know what I mean? You're not gonna stop working. You see how the perception, you think, wow, because I'm in the NBA.

• 1:40:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Did they know you're a Bull, like, when you're going there, like, a Chicago Bulls guy, made it in the NBA, is working at Circuit City? Like, what did they say in the interview?

• 1:41:07Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, the guy was like, you serious? I said, yeah, I want to work at Circuit City after my practices.

• 1:41:12Patrick Bet-David?

  How many hours, how many, how many days did you work there? How long did you work there?

• 1:41:15Speaker 04

  I did it two days until it got in the media. And then Jerry Kraus was like, what are you doing working at Circuit City? I said, Jerry, man, like, I got too much time on my hands. I need a job.

• 1:41:27Patrick Bet-David?

  You cannot be doing this. So let me ask the next one here. So, you were 37 with the Lakers to honor Michael Jackson's Thriller album that was number one on the Billboard for 37 weeks. Yes or no?

• 1:41:39Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:41:40Patrick Bet-David?

  True?

• 1:41:40Speaker 04

  Definitely.

• 1:41:41Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're a Michael Jackson guy?

• 1:41:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, definitely, you know, I'm a Michael Jackson guy. I know he's been through a lot and different things happen, but when you look at songs like "Hail the World," "Black or White," you know, that type of stuff is like, he really tried to give his all to the world. And it inspired me as a child to like, want to be good. Even like, the song with the dolphin, what song was that?

• 1:42:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, Heal the World, Make It a Better Place. No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:42:07Speaker 04

  The one, uh, Free Willy?

• 1:42:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Free Willy, yeah, what's the name of that song?

• 1:42:11Speaker 04

  Like those songs.

• 1:42:13Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, that's not it.

• 1:42:14Speaker 04

  Will You Be There? Will You Be There? Yeah, Will You Be There?

• 1:42:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:18Speaker 04

  On the movie, Free Willy? The Free Willy one, the Free Willy.

• 1:42:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Free Willy Song. Type in Free Willy Song.

• 1:42:23Speaker 04

  I did, that's what it came up with.

• 1:42:24Patrick Bet-David?

  That's what came up? It's a different song.

• 1:42:26Speaker 04

  Will You Be There? No, that's not it, that's definitely not it.

• 1:42:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Definitely not with the song.

• 1:42:30Speaker 04

  I guess that's all I got. I'm trying, I'm trying to give you a fit.

• 1:42:32Patrick Bet-David?

  No, you don't have it, bro, don't do it, because we're gonna get flack.

• 1:42:34Speaker 04

  The Dolphin Song.

• 1:42:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Dolphin Song.

• 1:42:37Speaker 04

  Maybe it was. No, the Orca. The Orca, it was the Orca, it was the Orca.

• 1:42:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Michael Jackson, one of a kind.

• 1:42:44Speaker 04

  Maybe it's down somewhere. I think that's it.

• 1:42:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so I got another one for you.

• 1:42:46Speaker 04

  Maybe that's the name of it, actually.

• 1:42:48Patrick Bet-David?

  I got another one for you.

• 1:42:49Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah, Will You? I guess I think I'm right. I forgot the, like, it's not in the hook, that's the name of the song, but it's not the hook. Usually the hook is in the song.

• 1:42:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. So I got another one for you. Is this true? You once drank Hennessy at halftime while with the Bulls?

• 1:43:02Speaker 04

  Uh...

• 1:43:08Speaker 04

  Maybe, maybe not.

• 1:43:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, you know, in the eighties...

• 1:43:11Speaker 04

  No, so, yeah, it was, yeah, it was a wild day, wild day.

• 1:43:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it?

• 1:43:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was a wild day. I was really twenty-one years old. I was kind of very reckless at twenty-one years old.

• 1:43:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Still in the NBA?

• 1:43:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, in the NBA, I was a... I was, I, I, I was a street mentality guy until, you know, I got older. When I got to Indiana, it was shifting. I was in therapy, and then as I got older, it was slowly shifting, and I was slowly... Now I'm just like a nerd and...

• 1:43:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Completely different guy.

• 1:43:38Speaker 04

  Transition, yeah.

• 1:43:40Patrick Bet-David?

  So, and next one here. Your dad, was your dad a Golden Gloves boxer and a Navy vet?

• 1:43:45Speaker 04

  My dad was a professional boxer. He's on BoxRec.com. You type in Ronald Test with Muhammad Ali, and you'll see my dad at the very bottom, two and one. He was, he was a great boxer, but then he had me. He, he met my mom... And yeah, type in Ronald Artest. There you go. Hey dad. There you go. There you go.

• 1:44:03Patrick Bet-David?

  That's cool.

• 1:44:04Speaker 04

  So you know.

• 1:44:05Adam Sosnick?

  Couldn't even get a picture of him though. Let's get something up there.

• 1:44:07Speaker 04

  He got knocked out once. He's two and old. He got knocked out once.

• 1:44:10Patrick Bet-David?

  That's cool.

• 1:44:11Speaker 04

  So what happened was.

• 1:44:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Heavyweight?

• 1:44:12Speaker 04

  What year was that? 1976. He had me in 79. So he met my mom in 77 and he just stopped boxing, but he wouldn't have had me. So. You know.

• 1:44:22Adam Sosnick?

  It worked out okay.

• 1:44:23Speaker 04

  Be the girl.

• 1:44:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Was he teaching you how to fight? Was he, was he a guy that was like, hey, you gotta learn how to defend yourself or?

• 1:44:28Speaker 04

  No, so he never, so I, I would go with him to the boxing ring sometimes as a kid, but as I started to learn, he didn't want me boxing. So he, he started to hide boxing from me. He started to hide boxing from me because he didn't want me boxing. I wanted to be a boxer. So as he started to hide it, as I got older in the NBA, I said, dad, I want to box when I retire. So I was 24, right before the brawl. I said, dad, I want to box. I said, I want to give you four fights.

• 1:44:56Speaker 04

  He, and, and he got Angelo Dundee on the phone. For Angelo, Angelo Dundee said, listen, you sure you want to fight? I said, yeah, but I said, it's going to take me 10 years because Mike Tyson, it took Mike Tyson about 10, 11 years ago to get to win. So I said, I'm definitely not doing that. I want to do it when I'm 35. So I was going to train with Angelo Dundee. We talked about a lot of different things, but then the brawl happened. When the brawl happened, what, what year he, what, what year he passed away? 2012. He passed away in 2012. Okay, yep. So when the brawl happened, um, I didn't want to come out and say I was going to fight. Because I was going to actually come out that year and say I was going to fight.

• 1:45:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Bad timing.

• 1:45:35Speaker 04

  Bad timing. So I just said, eh.

• 1:45:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you a tough guy? When you were a kid, were you a tough guy? Were you always fighting? Like when I talked to Tyson, Mike will say, you know, since he was nine years old, one time he, he just went like this. He says, I was afraid to fight. He says, one time I just went like this, knocked the guy out. The guy's dad comes and he knocks the dad out. At 10, 11 years old, young kid. But were you like a tough guy? Were you a fighter from the beginning? Like?

• 1:45:59Speaker 04

  Nah, uh, I wasn't, I wasn't. I think, yeah, I did. I got, I got suspended in. Pre-K, kindergarten, every year.

• 1:46:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Pre-K?

• 1:46:08Speaker 04

  Pre-K, I got suspended, I fight in pre-K, I fight in kindergarten.

• 1:46:11Patrick Bet-David?

  And what do you mean you were not a fighter? If you got suspended in pre-K, who gets suspended in pre-K?

• 1:46:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think I was a fighter.

• 1:46:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Who were you in high school? Of course, you're a star, you're a basket, you know, you're doing what you're doing in basketball, you know, you put on up the numbers. But in high school, if they go back classmates, they're in class with you, who would you, who would they say wrong was?

• 1:46:33Speaker 04

  High school was different, I went to all-boys Catholic school. So, I got suspended my first year, but then not no more after that. I did get suspended in the ninth grade, but then every year after that, I didn't get suspended.

• 1:46:45Patrick Bet-David?

  So then you didn't get in trouble?

• 1:46:46Speaker 04

  No, I was, I was pretty good, I was focused, I had a 60, I had a D average my first year in LaSalle Academy. Look at my freshman year, look at my face, I'm mad.

• 1:46:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That's not you.

• 1:46:54Speaker 04

  That's me, I'm mad for no.

• 1:46:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that really you?

• 1:46:55Speaker 04

  Mad for no reason.

• 1:46:58Adam Sosnick?

  This was in, is this in Queens?

• 1:47:00Speaker 04

  This is LaSalle Academy, second and second in Manhattan, Second Street and Second Avenue.

• 1:47:05Adam Sosnick?

  That summer, that year, was that the same time that the movie He Got Game came out?

• 1:47:10Speaker 04

  Oh, around that time, around that time, I forget what year.

• 1:47:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Ray Allen?

• 1:47:14Adam Sosnick?

  Ray Allen, Jesus Chutler's worth, they had a bunch of different NBA players.

• 1:47:17Patrick Bet-David?

  I just watched that movie a couple of months ago, what a great movie.

• 1:47:19Adam Sosnick?

  But this is going on in your city, they had a bunch of basketball, but 1998, yeah?

• 1:47:23Speaker 04

  That, that picture was 93, the one you just saw.

• 1:47:25Adam Sosnick?

  No, I'm saying, but you were, you were in high school in 98, or you just graduated?

• 1:47:29Speaker 04

  I was in college.

• 1:47:30Adam Sosnick?

  Okay, gotcha, in St. John's.

• 1:47:31Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, what was it like? Because I remember in, in 98, when, you know, what, 97, when Felipe Lopez, right? They call him the Dominican Jordan, cover of Sports Illustrated, like, this guy was supposed to be it.

• 1:47:44Speaker 04

  Incredible.

• 1:47:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, what, what happened with him? College, and he comes in, plays a few seasons in the NBA, four, five, six seasons, what happened to Felipe?

• 1:47:52Speaker 04

  Felipe should have went to the NBA out of high school. Because when he went to college, they started double teaming him, so his stock dropped. Then sophomore year, they, they, they put in more strategies, so now he should, he should not leave, and didn't make the tournament. Then junior year, playing a little bit better, but now stock has dropped, other people are coming. And then senior year, I get there, I take him to the tournament for the first time ever, I get to St. John's. And I bring Felipe to the NCAA tournament, and he gets drafted number 26 in the NBA. He had a great NBA career, actually, until he got hurt. He was like a Bruce Bowen, but better offensively. I mean, he played six years. He was about to sign a big deal. And then he had an ACL tear.

• 1:48:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 1:48:36Speaker 04

  So he actually had a good career.

• 1:48:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Really? So you would say he had a good career?

• 1:48:40Speaker 04

  He was having a good career. I mean, only two points for...

• 1:48:43Patrick Bet-David?

  I look at earnings. Earnings says 600,000 first year Grizzlies. Second year, the Wizards, 831. Third year, Timberwolves, 565. Fourth year, Timberwolves, 637. Career total, 2.63 million dollars.

• 1:48:57Speaker 04

  Right. And after that, because he was a low pick, he was a first-round pick. But after that, they were going to sign him. Because he was playing well. What was his averages? That's his averages?

• 1:49:08Speaker 04

  He was averaging...

• 1:49:09Patrick Bet-David?

  9.3 rookie year, 4.5, 8.1, 7.4, 2.5. Career average, far to the right, 5.8 career.

• 1:49:16Adam Sosnick?

  He wasn't getting buckets.

• 1:49:18Speaker 04

  Well, if you look at the year, he was averaging 7.

• 1:49:22Patrick Bet-David?

  45% field goal percentage. 3.556%.

• 1:49:27Speaker 04

  I feel like he played in the... I feel like he played longer than that.

• 1:49:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:33Speaker 04

  But you see him in the playoffs, like you go to the playoffs. He had four points. Like, he wasn't the best on those teams, 13 minutes. So you could do something with that. Yeah, because you're not getting a lot of volumes. But how the organization sees it is, this guy is a good piece. So you're not going to get Garnett money, but you can get a million, 2, 3 million. So they was about to offer him a good deal.

• 1:49:53Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, similar thing happened. DeMarcus Cousins was going to get paid. He was going to get paid 120 million dollars. That was a tough one.

• 1:50:00Adam Sosnick?

  He was incredible.

• 1:50:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, he was ridic... By the way, did you see what happened with the game?

• 1:50:03Speaker 04

  I did see it.

• 1:50:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you pull up the video with the fight and what they did? I don't know if you got that video or not, Rob.

• 1:50:07Adam Sosnick?

  Why is DeMarcus Cousins playing ball in Puerto Rico?

• 1:50:10Speaker 04

  People love the game, man. You can't play in the NBA. You try to go overseas.

• 1:50:16Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:16Speaker 04

  You try to go to Israel.

• 1:50:18Patrick Bet-David?

  I love that answer.

• 1:50:18Speaker 04

  You try to go to Spain.

• 1:50:19Patrick Bet-David?

  I love that answer.

• 1:50:20Speaker 04

  You try to go to Turkey, China, but those are not available.

• 1:50:24Patrick Bet-David?

  It's great. It's such an innocent answer. People freaking love the game.

• 1:50:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:50:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you play? Does something happen here?

• 1:50:31Adam Sosnick?

  No, you got to go to the different angle right here. Yeah. Rob, see if you can do the angle that shows DeMarcus Cousins walking towards the fan. I don't know if you can find that.

• 1:50:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this it?

• 1:50:43Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah. No, no, no, you gotta go, you gotta, this is, this is the tail end.

• 1:50:47Patrick Bet-David?

  This is afterwards. Anyways. So he has, he has what happens with him at the game.

• 1:50:51Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah, this is it right here. Watch this. A fan starts talking trash.

• 1:50:57Adam Sosnick?

  He says, what?

• 1:50:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Flipping him off?

• 1:50:59Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:00Patrick Bet-David?

  You can't do that. Are you really flipping him off as a fan? This is where? This is Puerto Rico. Wow, flipping him off, that's insane for me.

• 1:51:08Adam Sosnick?

  Then he comes after him.

• 1:51:10Patrick Bet-David?

  That is, by the way, I don't know if I've seen fans stepping up and flipping off, you know.

• 1:51:17Adam Sosnick?

  And then they escort him out, that's when they start pouring beer all over his head.

• 1:51:21Patrick Bet-David?

  I was a big fan of this guy. I wanted to see him get paid. I wanted to see him, you know, he had at one point, I think he averaged a season 28.8, like he had a 28.2.

• 1:51:29Adam Sosnick?

  He was incredible, Zach. This part right here, here's where it gets ugly.

• 1:51:36Adam Sosnick?

  Now here's where it gets weird. Now he starts trying to tackle him.

• 1:51:40Patrick Bet-David?

  You gotta take him out.

• 1:51:40Adam Sosnick?

  But what, what is the line that's drawn between fans talking smack? Versus, no, you just crossed the line, dude. Now we got.

• 1:51:48Speaker 04

  Now you're talking about Europe. You're talking about out of America. This is, I mean Puerto Rico is obviously, but you're talking about out of the mainland where the rules are different. I was in Italy and they, they throw coins at you and batteries when you're going to Europe. This is normal. This is like 30 years, 40 years.

• 1:52:08Adam Sosnick?

  They're like soccer fans in a basketball stadium right there. But what do you think, even in America, what do you think is crossing the line? Cause we all know about smack talk, we talk, talking trash, you suck, boo.

• 1:52:17Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 1:52:18Adam Sosnick?

  But at what point is like, oh, bro, you say something about my mom, we're gonna have a problem here.

• 1:52:21Speaker 04

  I think, I, I think back, mama, mama jokes is crossing the line. And I got, somebody told me my mom is a whore. I was at a plane. I was so mad, I was, I was sitting here, I was, I was in Detroit actually.

• 1:52:34Adam Sosnick?

  Detroit again?

• 1:52:35Speaker 04

  It was, uh, but I, I was like, you know, this is normal. This is how, that's how the fans are. Your mom is a whore. I'm like, what? I was so ready.

• 1:52:45Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, by the way, you hear stories about Peyton talking about your wife and your girl. You hear stories about Michael. That brought some stories about Michael.

• 1:52:53Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:54Patrick Bet-David?

  There's some vicious stories about Michael. Some of these guys.

• 1:52:56Adam Sosnick?

  That's player to player though, right?

• 1:52:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:59Adam Sosnick?

  Meaning they can take it out on the court.

• 1:53:00Speaker 04

  The player to players though, that's over.

• 1:53:02Adam Sosnick?

  I'm talking about a dude in the third row being like, you ain't.

• 1:53:05Speaker 04

  I think that's okay, but I think just throwing stuff.

• 1:53:07Adam Sosnick?

  Is it crossing the line at a certain point?

• 1:53:08Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:53:08Adam Sosnick?

  If they're just talking.

• 1:53:09Speaker 04

  I think just talking is okay, obviously. I think if you do, I think racial slurs is like, that's like two months.

• 1:53:14Adam Sosnick?

  Of course, right?

• 1:53:14Speaker 04

  Come on, like, but I think everything else, like, you suck, you know, I think that's okay, but I think I'm throwing stuff that's.

• 1:53:22Adam Sosnick?

  Of course.

• 1:53:23Speaker 04

  Crossing the line.

• 1:53:24Adam Sosnick?

  Didn't LeBron, like, approach a fan or try to get a fan ejected?

• 1:53:27Patrick Bet-David?

  He did. He's gotten multiple fans ejected.

• 1:53:29Adam Sosnick?

  But they were saying something about like his kids.

• 1:53:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Westbrook did as well. Westbrook did as well. But again, Adam, there is touch me, throw stuff at me. From there on, bro, these are, again, I like to see the element, you go to UFC fight. Have you ever been to UFC fight?

• 1:53:46Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you go to UFC fight. Dude, you know what they do at UFC fights? You know how crazy it is at UFC fights? It's just boom, boom, boom, you leave. It's just insanity. Energy is ridiculous. This got a little bit soft. I hope Ron says this thing's gonna come back. I'm following it this playoff season.

• 1:54:06Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Because finally, it's just guys playing that just love the game and they want to win their first chip.

• 1:54:11Adam Sosnick?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:12Patrick Bet-David?

  It's gonna be exciting to see what happens. Last question before we wrap up. Toughest guy you played against that was feared by everyone during your era? Who was, and I'm not talking toughest guy like skill set. I'm talking like a gangster, tough guy, enforcer. You hear stuff about Vernon Maxwell in the 90s. You hear stuff about, you know, some of the other guys from the 80s.

• 1:54:34Adam Sosnick?

  Bill Laimbeer.

• 1:54:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was it in your era where it's like, these guys were tough?

• 1:54:39Speaker 04

  In our era, I got in 99. I became a really.

• 1:54:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Cause I know it was you.

• 1:54:45Speaker 04

  But outside of myself, um.

• 1:54:48Speaker 04

  I think Shaq. Shaq Shaq is big, but Shaq was also toughy. I don't think he ever crossed the line, but I think he also had that edge where if you cross the line against Shaq, he'll he'll cross the line too.

• 1:55:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Remember his rookie season when he punched Alvin Robinson in the face?

• 1:55:05Speaker 04

  Right, right, yeah.

• 1:55:07Patrick Bet-David?

  And Alvin Robinson's not a lightweight. He had a quadruple double in in the 80s, I won't point out.

• 1:55:12Adam Sosnick?

  Ironically enough, I think that happened again in Detroit.

• 1:55:15Patrick Bet-David?

  That's it. Yeah, this is it.

• 1:55:16Adam Sosnick?

  Against Orlando, but against Detroit.

• 1:55:18Speaker 04

  I've seen this one. Yeah, this is this is nice.

• 1:55:21Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, watch it. So Lambier's getting, it's like, look, get off of me. And then Alvin's like.

• 1:55:24Speaker 04

  That was too much. And so Shaq is like, it's okay. But then at the end, look what look what Alvin does at the end.

• 1:55:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:29Speaker 04

  Like, that's disrespectful. He's like, against Shaq.

• 1:55:31Adam Sosnick?

  Oh, man.

• 1:55:33Speaker 04

  And then he then he's ready to get. I think he was, I don't know, he must, well, Pistons had.

• 1:55:37Adam Sosnick?

  What year was this?

• 1:55:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Tough guy. For Alvin's not backing down, though.

• 1:55:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, Alvin was not backing down.

• 1:55:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Dude, like, good for Alvin.

• 1:55:43Adam Sosnick?

  Rob, do you know?

• 1:55:43Patrick Bet-David?

  You're going up against a guy, by the way, you see Scott.

• 1:55:45Adam Sosnick?

  Scotty Skiles right there.

• 1:55:46Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what the record is?

• 1:55:47Speaker 04

  Scotty.

• 1:55:48Patrick Bet-David?

  He owns a record. You know what the record is?

• 1:55:49Speaker 04

  The assists, right?

• 1:55:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Most assists in a game. Thirty-one, I think. Thirty-one or thirty-three.

• 1:55:54Speaker 04

  Still got it.

• 1:55:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Still got it.

• 1:55:55Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:55:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that not crazy? Can you validate that, Rob? The Scott, the.

• 1:55:59Adam Sosnick?

  Dennis Scott right there. And that was from 93, March 30th of 1993.

• 1:56:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Dude, that was Shaq. When was Shaq a rookie? Ninety-two or ninety?

• 1:56:06Adam Sosnick?

  Ninety-two.

• 1:56:07Patrick Bet-David?

  I got his rookie card in ninety-two, so this must be a second year.

• 1:56:10Adam Sosnick?

  This is when Pistons were on their way down and the Bulls were on their way up.

• 1:56:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. That's right.

• 1:56:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Not Rodman, though. Not Rodman, though. Everybody else, except for Rod Rodman. Rodman was something else.

• 1:56:21Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:56:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Rodman was something else. Well, Meta, it's been great having you on. I, listen, when I reached out, I sincerely wanted to talk to you. And it was nothing else. It wasn't like business, anything. I just wanted to talk to you because all those years and it reminded me with the game we were on. I'm like, dude, this guy literally, single-handedly, if you lose to the Celtics, then you lose game seven? That is so, and at home, that was gonna be so embarrassing. But no, Ron Artest was in the arena, brought it back, and it was great to catch up with you and.

• 1:56:53Speaker 04

  Shout out to the Lakers, the Bus family, you know, the front office, the players, you know, we love the Lakers. Los Angeles.

• 1:57:01Patrick Bet-David?

  And hopefully one of these, obviously, you know Pacers gotta do what they gotta do. You guys got a weekend half to go to celebrate and I'm sure I'll see you. If you guys win a championship, I'm sure I'm gonna see you on there celebrating with them. But then the other one we'll celebrate hopefully is that the Knicks are gonna give you a call.

• 1:57:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, that'd be nice. We're waiting.

• 1:57:18Patrick Bet-David?

  My man, appreciate you, brother. This was great.

• 1:57:20Speaker 04

  Absolutely, thank you.

• 1:57:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Take care, everybody. Bye bye, bye bye.

• 1:57:21Speaker 04

  Hey, what's up? I'm Meta World Peace, the Chairman of Artest Management Group. And now I am officially on my neck. I want you to reach out to me. I got a lot of things to offer. Whether you wanted to chat about sports, basketball, on the business side, business development, consultation, brand strategy, foreign relations, and more. I look forward to connecting with you on my neck.

• 1:57:50Speaker 07

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