Pod Insights Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones Looksmaxxing Debt, Income Gap Friendships, and AI Therapists ft. Pat McAuliffe About this episode Barstool Pat aka Pat McAuliffe aka Haley's gay best friend aka Haley's best friend joins her for a Dear Sugar Mama Q&A on all your money etiquette questions. Stick around until the end for a dating question we couldn't resist.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around forty thousand dollars and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases.
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1:29 Haley Sacks? Okay, we all love to romanticize being your own boss, but even when you have a team, you still end up being the bookkeeper, the marketing department, and the person rearranging appointments at eleven PM. And that work isn't just annoying, it is expensive. And it's especially taxing for businesses that run on appointments. So if you own a business that takes bookings, this one's for you. Gloss Genius is the system that runs the operations for you behind the scenes. Scheduling, payments, admin handled automatically. Payment processing is a flat rate with zero hidden fees. And check out Rebook's clients on the spot. Clients can book in seconds too, so there's no login or separate app. Necessary, so you actually get more appointments.
2:12 Haley Sacks? A hundred and 25,000 businesses already trust Gloss Genius to earn them more and save them time. Want to try it out for yourself? Go to glossgenius.com and use code FINANCIAL for 50% off your first two months of a premium plan. She hasn't actually been that deceitful to him because it's unless he straight up said, do you have debt? And she said, no, I don't.
2:35 Speaker 02 Which in that case is a red flag. If a guy's asking you about your debt three months in.
2:38 Haley Sacks? Yeah, me on a first date, but like, yeah, for sure. Red flag. Bro show.
2:45 Haley Sacks? What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, AKA Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea.
2:53 Haley Sacks? Welcome back to Financial Tea Sippers, the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. And wait, I thought you were filming me.
3:05 Speaker 02 No, no.
3:06 Haley Sacks? Well, there is someone else.
3:07 Speaker 02 Cameras for that.
3:07 Haley Sacks? There's someone else in the room with me. Yes, you can hear him. Today, we are doing a Dear Sugar Mama segment, and I have a very special guest, my gay best friend.
3:20 Speaker 02 And also just regular best.
3:21 Haley Sacks? Regular best friend, but also gay best friend.
3:22 Speaker 02 We don't need to qualify it with sexuality.
3:24 Haley Sacks? We don't. And also because you don't like read as gay in like the traditional sense. So it's actually, you're my beard.
3:29 Speaker 02 I read straight.
3:30 Haley Sacks? You're my beard for like being single. Like we're just mostly like.
3:33 Speaker 02 You can wear heels around me.
3:35 Haley Sacks? Yeah. Oh, tall guy and best friend and podcast host extraordinaire. You might know him from Barstool's Out and About. You might know him from all of the shows that he does through Barstool that are, you know, I can't even keep up. The YouTube channel is just filled with your face.
3:49 Speaker 02 It's filled with my face.
3:50 Haley Sacks? Yeah, you're like always in an RV, sort of like with cameras shooting you like you're at NASCAR. Like, you know, your job takes you lots of places.
3:57 Speaker 02 I'm a lady about town.
3:58 Haley Sacks? You sure are.
3:59 Speaker 02 I'm all over the place, my dear.
4:02 Haley Sacks? And we are going to answer your dear sugar mama questions, which are today I chose them all out money etiquette. Cause I feel like you're really good at that.
4:09 Speaker 02 Yes.
4:10 Haley Sacks? But I also threw in a bonus one at the end about dating and AI.
4:16 Speaker 02 Wait, what dating and AI is dating getting in the way of AI?
4:19 Haley Sacks? It's so crazy. And I think that like, as people get more obsessed with their chatbots, this is going to happen more and more. So I was just like, this is it. This question does not necessarily have to do with finances, but we need to discuss it because you have read through someone's phone.
4:33 Speaker 02 And my boyfriend is also AI.
4:35 Haley Sacks? And your boyfriend is AI. Yeah. As someone who's dating a bot.
4:37 Speaker 02 And someone who's dating a bot is kind of struck close home to me.
4:42 Haley Sacks? Okay. Yeah. Let's get into the market part, baby. Hey guys, welcome back to the MDJ market report where I give you the stories that you need to know to understand what's happening on Wall Street and the world of business. I want to flag before I got into this week's market report that I am going to LA this weekend. Brag, just kidding. It's going to just be like so much work and probably Goop kitchen. But because of that, I'm recording this like a bit earlier than I usually do. So the story that I'm focusing the market report on that we're going to get to, we might have new information around it. But anyways, let's get into it. So if you've been on the internet at all,
5:22 Haley Sacks? you've seen the mystery drama playing out between Alex Cooper and Alex Earl. But what I want to do is peel back the sort of he said, she said drama of it because to me, this is not just a falling out. It is a high stakes case study in equity and leverage. And really what happens when a creator realizes that she already had the power before she ever signed a contract. So just to fill you in, Earl officially left Cooper's Unwell Network in 2025. And then they sort of went into this like nuclear cold war. And it peaked when Earl reposted a video calling Cooper an ambulance chaser and a grim reaper who preys
6:06 Haley Sacks? on creators when they're broken down. And then Cooper fired back and made this like crazy scary video. Basically telling Earl to like, stop hiding and just say it for yourself and like, speak your truth and flexing so hard that there was no NDA between them. Like it was almost a dare, but I feel like that move, and by the way, I think Alex Cooper really shot herself in the foot with the whole thing, but I feel like that move reveals more about Cooper than it does about Earl because she is playing a very specific game where you go public first, you frame yourself as the transparent trustworthy one and basically
6:44 Haley Sacks? force your opponent into a corner where if you stay silent, it looks like guilt, but if you speak up, it looks like a breach because let's be real, even if they didn't have an NDA, they definitely had a non disparagement contract. So if Alex Earl speaks out against this, it could get her into a legal battle. So she really is in a hard position. And I feel like these sort of moves really only work if the playing field is level and it isn't. So I don't know. I think calling out someone who can't fully respond is not bravery. It's really just leverage. And I personally don't believe that loudest person in the room is the most powerful one. I just think that they are often the ones who are the least legally exposed. But the real tea is that their business relationship was broken by design, which is
7:29 Haley Sacks? sort of crazy because we all know that Alex Cooper famously fought Barstool Sports for her own intellectual property. And the rumor is that she allegedly built a deal for Earl that mirrored the one that she once hated. So there's a lot of reports that suggest that Earl's unwell contract had essentially like a 30% management tax on an infrastructure she had already built. And then Alex Earl's father looked at the books and looked at the contract and found out that they were taking a huge cut of the hot mess assets without really providing any growth to justify it and got them out of the deal. And like, it sort of blew up their relationship.
8:10 Haley Sacks? The mistake number one was that Alex Earl never needed a network. Like she is the network in 2026, the creator is the economy. So I feel like she was just really needed a partner to treat her like an enter Prize instead of a protege. And really, the moment that her dad stepped up and did that, the math stopped working for everyone else in the room because it just became about how can Alex Earl own the most of what she's putting out, which is why we're also seeing her with this skincare line instead of promoting other people's skincare lines. Like she realizes her own power and she is down to monetize it. She's not going to sell other people's products. She's going to sell her own stuff. But I will also say just about women in business and I'm a woman in business and like, look, there's a lot of other
8:54 Haley Sacks? financial creators in the space. Like, I don't know, I've dealt with a lot of people in my time. And something that I always think about is Sarah Blake Lee, who started Spanx, said when she started Spanx, she had a meeting with all these guys, like trying, trying to sort of intimidate her. And they were like, well, Sarah, you know that business is war, right? And she was like, wait, why does business have to be war? Like, no, that's not how I'm going to do things. Sarah Blake Lee never treated other women as competition. She saw them as really the point. And I feel like Alex Cooper had that same opportunity. Like she was the creator who fought the machine. She won. She could have used that blueprint to build something genuinely different for the next generation of women in media. But
9:36 Haley Sacks? instead, she sort of just became the thing that she fought against. So I don't think that's really as much a PR problem as it is just like a her problem. And I will also say that the richest people in any industry aren't even always the ones with the biggest platforms. They're just the ones who own what's on them. So like Alex Earl's face, voice, audience, these were always the asset. And the question was just who was going to profit from them? And her dad read the contract and saw the answer. And now she gets to change it. We're Team Alex Earl in this house. And I think that Alex Cooper needs to like, go touch grass and realize that like, she has enough money. So why not do business in a way that she's proud of, instead of being like such a pitbull all the time? Like, I'm all about getting your bag, but I think that you can
10:18 Haley Sacks? do it in a way that has a bit more integrity. That being said, this is all alleged. So I want to just put that out there. And also, I went on Call Her Dottie and Alex Cooper was awesome. And I Thought she had an amazing work ethic. Like I could just see it then that she really is so focused on her career, which is inspiring. But I don't know, I just wish that this could have ended differently. And I think that it's sort of like fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Like something similar happened with Sophia, clearly her old host. And now it's happening with Alex Earl. And it's like, at the end of the day, like, there's only one thing that those two have in common, and that's Alex Cooper. So the writing is a bit on the wall. Okay, now let's jump into our amazing Dear Sugar Mama segment with my best friend, Pat.
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12:04 Speaker 02 I'm here. I want some financial tea and I want some financial drama because you're kind of my sugar mama when we think about it.
12:09 Haley Sacks? Oh, we should talk about this.
12:10 Speaker 02 A little bit.
12:11 Haley Sacks? Yeah, what it's like to be in a friendship where it's like, people talk about like age difference friendship, relationships, but like we're in like a money difference relationship.
12:19 Speaker 02 Yes. And it's, I have a lot more.
12:20 Haley Sacks? Yeah, you have a lot more. And so it's like, I'm just in it for, I'm in it for that.
12:24 Speaker 02 But I'm so excited. I want to hear all your listener questions because I feel like every time I watch this segment, they get better and better. And I'm ready to just kind of dig in and sink my teeth into what we're about to get into.
12:33 Haley Sacks? Okay. But first, could we just talk about like where our friendship sort of
12:36 Speaker 02 Yes, let's do it.
12:37 Haley Sacks? Came from. So like, yes, the rumors are true. Pat and I met at David Letterman, name brand, name drop. When we were in our early twenties, you were like, had quit pharmaceutical sales.
12:50 Speaker 02 Yes, yes, quite the pivot. I quit that. I was in Massachusetts right after school. I worked in tech, in a tech job, and then I got a job at David Letterman. And then probably like a week into the job, I met you.
13:03 Haley Sacks? Yes.
13:04 Speaker 02 And I was like, this girl is bad at her job.
13:06 Haley Sacks? Really bad.
13:07 Speaker 02 I was like, we are gonna be friends.
13:09 Haley Sacks? Yes.
13:09 Speaker 02 Cause I was so, it's one of those things, the second you got into the show, you realize that it's kind of a dead end. Like Letterman was about to retire. So I'm like, all right, let's just have fun on this job. And who's the most fun person at David Letterman, besides Letterman? It was you. And we had so much fun on that job. That really was a blast when you think about it.
13:26 Haley Sacks? We had so much fun. And the worst, I would say the funniest thing that happened was that, so I just want to be clear. Yeah, like everyone else was really good at their job. Pat and I were like, sort of, you know, like, we're bringing in literally like, like random people from Times Square to do, to be in the audience, getting in trouble. It's called like a red dot. If they put it on the ticket and you brought the audience member and they'd give it a red dot. And then when you had your review, they would tell you how many red dots that you got.
13:50 Speaker 02 Everything is based on how people looked at Letterman. But the thing is, Letterman didn't know that that's how, that's what was the audience was based on. This was just an imaginary rule that these two audience coordinators came up with in their head. Which was, we need to see these people up front and these people in the back. And it fell on us, me and Haley.
14:05 Haley Sacks? To go to Times Square and literally grab them.
14:07 Speaker 02 To go to Times Square. And it was called barking. So you literally like yell at people to give them tickets.
14:12 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
14:12 Speaker 02 But if you brought someone back and like, they didn't fit the look, they wanted like a midwestern wholesome look.
14:17 Haley Sacks? Yeah, they did.
14:18 Speaker 02 Then they'd be like, why is this person in the front? And it was wild to be a part of, which is why after like four months.
14:24 Haley Sacks? You left.
14:25 Speaker 02 Max, I was like, I'm good. And you're like, okay, I'm leaving right after you.
14:28 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
14:28 Speaker 02 And that was in 2014. And we've literally been best friends ever since.
14:33 Haley Sacks? Best friends.
14:34 Speaker 02 I'm in your family now.
14:34 Haley Sacks? Yeah, no, and then it was like also became exactly like you met the family and they were like, okay, we need him like we're.
14:40 Speaker 02 Imagine if, do you think if I was straight, we'd be like together?
14:42 Haley Sacks? But at this point, we would have family.
14:44 Speaker 02 Right.
14:45 Haley Sacks? At this point, like it would be, we might, and we, by the way, we would be in counseling.
14:48 Speaker 02 Oh, it would be so like we're, like we're teetering on the edge, right? Like this, this interview could go left. Like if we want to, if we want to take it there, we could.
14:58 Haley Sacks? We would keep it definitely interesting, but it's like, there's no way that there would be any sort of fidelity or like,
15:03 Speaker 02 Fidelity.
15:03 Haley Sacks? Or like that we wouldn't be fighting all the times we are married.
15:06 Speaker 02 But you always say you want, like, if we were to do kids.
15:09 Haley Sacks? Oh, no, do you want to tell them about our plan for kids?
15:11 Speaker 02 Haley's like, if we both don't have kids by the time we're 40, which is like decades from now.
15:14 Haley Sacks? Literally tomorrow.
15:15 Speaker 02 Then we'll do tomorrow, then.
15:19 Haley Sacks? But you have diabetes almost, so I was gonna do, have you do sperm donation, but then I have, like, I do know so much about your health.
15:25 Speaker 02 Right.
15:26 Haley Sacks? I am sort of like, are the, is the diabetes, the pre-diabetes?
15:30 Speaker 02 But it's only because of M and M's.
15:31 Haley Sacks? Okay, because you are.
15:32 Speaker 02 And I cut out M and M's, so I'm good.
15:33 Haley Sacks? No, you're good.
15:34 Speaker 02 But she says if I give her children, then she'll give me townhouse, but only the basement of the townhouse.
15:38 Haley Sacks? You can do like fun, like uncle in the basement vibe, like go see uncle.
15:42 Speaker 02 I can do deadbeat.
15:43 Haley Sacks? Yeah, you can do deadbeat, which I think would be nice because in the one way, I wouldn't have to worry that you would be like too involved in kid life.
15:50 Speaker 02 Oh, you don't have to worry about that.
15:51 Haley Sacks? But in the same way, do I want you a little bit reliable, but you won't be?
15:55 Speaker 02 That's where the issue comes in, because I don't know if we can communicate to get on the same page of how involved I'm gonna be.
16:00 Haley Sacks? Cause I did an egg freezing episode, so maybe we do sperm donation, because I'm a diabetic embryo.
16:04 Speaker 02 It's like you just go in a bathroom and just kind of crank one out.
16:08 Haley Sacks? No, we do turkey baster.
16:10 Speaker 02 Oh, turkey baster.
16:11 Haley Sacks? Yeah, we're not having sex.
16:12 Speaker 02 Okay.
16:13 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I just want to be clear.
16:14 Speaker 02 I'm sorry. Can we cut this?
16:19 Haley Sacks? Okay, but enough with the biography. We have to get into these freaking questions, because I really got some juicy, juicy, dear sugar mamas that you are going to freak out on. Make sure that you send yours there. But the first one, I was like, okay, we need to talk about this for you, because you're in your looks maxing era.
16:32 Speaker 02 Yes.
16:33 Haley Sacks? Okay, so, dear sugar mama, I'm worried about my sister's finances. Recently, she started spending a ton of money on aesthetic procedures. First, it was Botox, then filler, then you know the rest of the story. Once you pop, you can't stop.
16:48 Speaker 02 Preach.
16:49 Haley Sacks? I support her decision to prioritize her image, but I'm worried she's going into debt for this and I just want to shake her awake.
16:56 Speaker 02 I would think the first thing you have to do is remind yourself that this is your sister's money and not yours. Your sister can do whatever she wants with the money. And also, what is a sister's job? If the sister has a front-facing job, if she wants to look good, that's fine. But I feel like if you're going so overboard and going into debt, and if the surgeries are bad, you need to say something. People don't talk about that. Like, if you have a good surgery and you spend money on it, that's fine. If you get surgery and you're overdoing it and it looks bad, I think you need to step in.
17:22 Haley Sacks? It's actually so true. You need to calculate the ROI.
17:25 Speaker 02 Exactly.
17:25 Haley Sacks? Like if someone's getting fully botched.
17:27 Speaker 02 Right.
17:28 Haley Sacks? But you're speaking from your own perspective too, because of course you have been looks-maxing and you do have a front-facing job and you have been investing. Do you want to share your finances of your hair transplant?
17:39 Speaker 02 So I recently did my own little brush-up refresh and I got a hair transplant in Turkey, which was free through my job, thank goodness.
17:45 Haley Sacks? So Pat works for Barstool and he did a segment for them called Bald Stool.
17:50 Speaker 02 Bald Stool.
17:50 Haley Sacks? Bald Stool.
17:51 Speaker 02 So this is season two of Bald Stool, where they take like 30 people from our company and fans and they send them all to Turkey and they give us all procedures as part of like this massive ad deal. But if I were to pay for this on my own, I think it would have been around like eight or $9,000 in Turkey. But if you got this done in, on, you know, the Upper East Side or in New Jersey, you're paying like 25, $30,000 for a good one. So I don't know if I would do this in the States because that's just a little too much money for me to spend.
18:20 Haley Sacks? You also weren't like, it was not the sort of thing where anyone was like, oh, Pat is really bald.
18:26 Speaker 02 No, I'm getting ahead of it.
18:27 Haley Sacks? You're, yeah, so my model is preventative.
18:30 Speaker 02 It is preventative, but I think it takes on a completely different meaning if you're spending money on your looks. It's just what's important to you. Like if she's spending money and it's going to make her feel good and it's going to make her feel confident, do it, but don't go broke doing it. And I think most people also know the line, right? Like you know if you're going a little too far or if you've done too much. Like I used to do Botox all the time, huge waste of money and I To stop because I became immune to it.
18:52 Haley Sacks? But you also have a way of finding all of these procedures for free.
18:57 Speaker 02 I scam.
18:57 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
18:58 Speaker 02 I'm a scam artist, first and foremost.
19:00 Haley Sacks? Like if there's a med spa that like has some sort of Instagram presence, Pat will be DMing them.
19:05 Speaker 02 A hundred percent.
19:06 Haley Sacks? Finding a way to get as many free.
19:09 Speaker 02 Maybe that's the advice we give her.
19:10 Haley Sacks? Create a platform.
19:11 Speaker 02 Create a podcast, build a social media platform, get it for free.
19:14 Haley Sacks? Yes.
19:14 Speaker 02 That's the way to do it.
19:15 Haley Sacks? Because you know what? There's two things that people love to give influencers for free. What are they?
19:21 Speaker 02 Botox.
19:22 Haley Sacks? And teeth.
19:22 Speaker 02 And teeth.
19:23 Haley Sacks? Teeth. No, I was gonna say energy drinks and teeth.
19:26 Speaker 02 Energy drinks, teeth, and botox.
19:28 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I think it's really hard when your family is spending money in a way that you don't agree with because you start your life sharing money with those people. And so it feels like personal to you and as though it's going to affect you. But actually, legally, if your sister gets into so much debt and like completely fucks her life up because she's like, you know, getting needled all the doodah day, it actually won't take you to the cleaners at all. So you're fine. It's more just like sisters do be judging.
20:03 Speaker 02 And I know sisters fully do be judging.
20:05 Haley Sacks? And sisters also do be not wanting their sisters to be hot.
20:08 Speaker 02 Is that true?
20:09 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
20:09 Speaker 02 Let's unpack this.
20:10 Haley Sacks? Oh, I have two sisters and I think that there's like so much competitiveness around looks like.
20:16 Speaker 02 But I think you hit the nail on the head with it's if your family, if you grew up and your family had never spent money on that kind of thing, like any sort of plastic surgery or looks maxing, if you will, then there's judgment that comes with it from your family. So if people aren't going to understand and maybe it's a lot of money, maybe what's a lot of money to them to spend on your on your face and body isn't a lot of money to you. So maybe they just don't understand. But I think at the end of the day, you just have to do what makes you happy as long as you're not getting in crazy debt. And I don't think you should get in debt at all for any sort of elective like surgery or procedure.
20:50 Haley Sacks? Okay, I'm going on the record saying.
20:51 Speaker 02 I'm going on the record. I think it's unavoidable to a degree, right? Like for certain people, you're gonna have to go into a little bit of a debt. But I think you really have to be careful because it is a slippery slope.
21:01 Haley Sacks? Think that also we're focused so much on the fact that this is an aesthetic procedure. Cause I think that like we are obsessed with looks maxing as like, like we like, it's like funny. And like, we always talking about it.
21:11 Speaker 02 It's hilarious.
21:12 Haley Sacks? And you know, thinking about it and.
21:15 Speaker 02 Dreaming about it.
21:15 Haley Sacks? Dreaming about it even like considering what could be next.
21:18 Speaker 02 Almost obsessive.
21:19 Haley Sacks? Yeah, one could say spending time on it. But at the end of the day, whether it was aesthetic procedures or shopping or gambling, just anything that you are compulsive towards that feels in control of you financially versus you being in control of it, which is like what I think is so dangerous with aesthetic procedures. Because similar to gambling where it's always, oh, the next thing is gonna win. Even if you get your teeth done, then you're thinking, oh, I want to get my eyes done. I need a blast. I need a, what if I got a little chin? Like it just keeps on rolling and rolling because you are always trying to hit this version of perfection.
22:01 Haley Sacks? And so I think that it actually is something that could be really compulsive financially. And I do think that maybe she should talk to her sister, not from a place of jealousy, but from a place of maybe trying to help her get a little bit of support just because it is a slippery slope.
22:18 Speaker 02 I think if you want to do something to your body, you should a hundred percent.
22:20 Haley Sacks? But what if you couldn't afford it?
22:22 Speaker 02 If you can't afford it, then you have to wait until you can afford it. But I think you have to take the time to explain to people who are close to you, who are gonna judge you why you're doing it.
22:31 Haley Sacks? He says it from personal experience.
22:32 Speaker 02 No, I do. Because when I got my hair done, my family was like, what the fuck are you doing? And I was like, it's, this is a nothing surgery. It's free. Let me get it. But I'm also getting my teeth done.
22:41 Haley Sacks? Dr. Lena.
22:42 Speaker 02 Why do you need to have your teeth done? And I explained to them and they get it because people are gonna judge, like no matter what people are gonna judge. But if they don't understand, if you can at least help them understand, then that'll help them kind of like turn back their judgment a little bit or not. Or they could be terrible and they could just continue to judge you.
22:56 Haley Sacks? But also if you're going down the rabbit hole of getting more and more and more procedures, like for you, yeah, you did your hair.
23:01 Speaker 02 Right.
23:01 Haley Sacks? Now you're doing teeth. If then in July, you're telling me what's after that, you're getting like calf implants or something. I might call Phyllis.
23:09 Speaker 02 You have to.
23:10 Haley Sacks? Yes, because I'm like. Okay, I'm seeing a pattern here.
23:12 Speaker 02 But I don't, I think you need to have an, an exit plan. Cause it is a little bit like, I got this hair done. I'm like, ooh, okay. Like, give me some teeth. Like, give me some, you need to have an exit plan for the surge.
23:22 Haley Sacks? So what's your exit plan?
23:23 Speaker 02 I think I'm done after teeth, because what else can I do?
23:25 Haley Sacks? There you go. Well, I know what you're gonna do next.
23:27 Speaker 02 Fucking perfect. It's like, what else can I do?
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24:52 Haley Sacks? My fiance comes from generational wealth.
24:54 Speaker 02 Ooh, the dream.
24:55 Haley Sacks? And his mom offered to pay for our entire wedding, and I mean entire. We're talking black tie, a venue I could never afford, florals that cost more than my first car, and a catering bill with no ceiling. Ooh, it should go full pig. Amazing, right? Wrong. I wanted something intimate. She invited 200 of her closest friends. She has opinions on every vendor.
25:18 Speaker 02 Grow up, sister.
25:19 Haley Sacks? Rewrote the timeline, and I'm not exaggerating, her outfit is better than mine. Now I'm standing in the middle of a 500K event, wondering if I'm the bride or the event planner. Do I shut up and smile or blow up a 500K party to have the day I actually want it?
25:38 Speaker 02 Shut up and smile. God forbid, someone wants to pay for a half a million dollar wedding and you're jealous of your mother-in-law's dress? Get over yourself. If you want it to be intimate, it can be intimate. Why don't you redistribute some of that $500,000? Seriously, if they have a half a million dollar budget and it's not like money isn't being allocated to the things you want, you can reallocate it to other things. But I think that's so crazy to just get upset because your mother wants, mother-in-law wants a big wedding. This is a nothing problem.
26:08 Haley Sacks? I definitely agree. This is a nothing problem. I don't think that she can reallocate any of the funds though, because it seems like the mother-in-law is like fully in control. But in the same way, I'm like, look, people romanticize their wedding day so much, but I think that actually the truth is like for most of my friends who got married, it was stressful. And so it's like the idea that this is gonna be some like really like amazing, fun, relaxed, chill party. I'm like, no matter how you cut it, whether your mother-in-law is fucking it up or your mother's fucking it up or your cousin is or your brother or the groom is, I know a girl who's bachelor party was this weekend. She's not talking to the groom. Like, it's like, there's always shit going down.
26:50 Haley Sacks? So it's like, there's, stop thinking of this as the best day of your life. At the end of the day, it's like you're getting-
26:56 Speaker 02 Stop thinking of it as the best day of your life.
26:57 Haley Sacks? Yeah, like you're-
26:58 Speaker 02 Think of it as something you have to check off to get done. This shouldn't be fun. This should be memorable. This should be a task that you complete. No, I think she, you know what I think she has to do? She has to talk to her fiance. Like the fiance has to be the buffer to the mother-in-law. If you're not comfortable enough saying, hey, your mom, you're going overboard. Here's what I want. You have to talk to your fiance and your fiance has to talk to the mom and you have to figure out a way to make this work for both of you, no? Because I know people who have had like nightmare in-law scenarios, but they've leaned on their partner to figure it out.
27:29 Haley Sacks? I think that the wedding itself, she's lucky. Like this is your right, this is a nothing problem. Like, I'm sorry, someone wants to plan your wedding for you and like pay for the whole thing.
27:38 Speaker 02 But I shouldn't say nothing problem because it is a problem, right?
27:40 Haley Sacks? No, I mean, I guess it's, I think that what- The issue is, is that money gives people power over you.
27:47 Speaker 02 Right.
27:48 Haley Sacks? And so by agreeing to this, they're giving up some of their autonomy. And this could lead to future moments with the mother in law. Like, it could be a slippery slope where then it's, she says, oh, do you want a house? But the house is next door to hers and she's over every day. With money comes so much control. And so I think that it's less about, it's less about like, oh, poor her. The wedding sounds really hard or, but more just like, ooh, yeah. Like this woman could be like trying to totally swim fan you.
28:20 Speaker 02 Yeah. I want to see the mom's dress so bad.
28:22 Haley Sacks? So bad.
28:23 Speaker 02 I want to see the dress.
28:26 Haley Sacks? I was recently looking for my friend's handle in Venmo when I remembered that my other friend and I had dinner a few months ago, not a cheap one. And I put down my card, Points Hoes Rise, but I didn't Venmo request her at the time. But I texted her to tell me that she owed me and she said that she'd Venmo me, but it never came. And I just remembered again after five months.
28:50 Speaker 02 Five months?
28:51 Haley Sacks? What do I do?
28:52 Speaker 02 Statute of limitations is up. Five months, like five months is crazy. And I, going out to dinner as a group is tricky. And I think you're really good at this because Haley loves to get the points.
29:02 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
29:02 Speaker 02 So she'll be like, credit card down.
29:03 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
29:04 Speaker 02 But you send an immediate Venmo, which I appreciate.
29:06 Haley Sacks? Right away.
29:07 Speaker 02 And I think there's like a weak window. And especially if it's an expensive dinner where you have to send a Venmo out or you just treat them. But if you wait five months.
29:17 Haley Sacks? No, you're fucked.
29:18 Speaker 02 To send a Venmo. I mean, unless it's, you know, a thousand dollars or something crazy.
29:22 Haley Sacks? No, statute of limitations.
29:23 Speaker 02 Because that shows that you don't, you don't care. Because if you cared, you wouldn't be waiting five months to do it.
29:29 Haley Sacks? A hundred percent. You said it perfectly.
29:31 Speaker 02 Or bring it up passive aggressively and then like, just kind of let that fester.
29:34 Haley Sacks? Or next time that you have dinner with them. Be like, oh, you've got this right? Cause like, you know, I got that, that other one.
29:43 Speaker 02 Play it coy.
29:44 Haley Sacks? Yeah, play coy.
29:44 Speaker 02 Oh wait, do you have this one? I think you owe me from the last dinner.
29:46 Haley Sacks? Exactly.
29:47 Speaker 02 Even though it's been eating you inside.
29:49 Haley Sacks? Yes. Do you think that friends, when the other friend doesn't Venmo them, you do sort of feel like you're getting away with something?
29:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, a hundred percent.
29:56 Haley Sacks? Yeah. Like, it's not innocent. When someone doesn't Venmo you, it's not because they forgot.
30:00 Speaker 02 And it's also like, it doesn't, people say it doesn't go through. Venmo always goes through.
30:05 Haley Sacks? The most important thing to know about Venmo is that it's not FDIC insured. So people get really excited to have a big Venmo balance because it sort of feels like you're getting away with murder. Oh, like secret cash. But that could disappear in a second. So always cash out your Venmo balance. Don't leave money there. Not to mention that you get no interest on that cash. But more importantly, it's not that safe.
30:26 Speaker 02 I think that's weird when people have a big Venmo balance.
30:29 Haley Sacks? They love it.
30:30 Speaker 02 It's like, I have a couple thousand dollars in my Venmo. Why? Transfer it in, you freak.
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31:36 Haley Sacks? I've been dating my boyfriend for a few months now and it's amazing. Our relationship is palpably different and it feels like the if you know, you know thing I see all over the internet. He's funny, kind and devoted and a great communicator. Problem is I have debt and I haven't told him about it yet. He's very responsible and I'm worried this will freak him out and make him think I'm not and ruin the relationship, which I guess fair, but this is not a recurring theme in my life and I don't want it to come between us or give him like a warped picture of me. But I also don't want to build the relationship on deceit. How do I tell him?
32:07 Speaker 02 You just gotta rip the Band-Aid. You just gotta tell him. I think if you think he's the one and he's all these great things, you just gotta tell him. Communication and honesty is the key. Oh mama.
32:15 Haley Sacks? I think what? I think that she's like in sort of an amazing position because it's only been a few months and like usually the money conversation comes up when you are at a crossroad with that person.
32:26 Speaker 02 You're moving in or yeah.
32:27 Haley Sacks? Getting a dog, wedding, like whatever. The thing is that then your finances are more intertwined. It makes you sit down and say, here's how much I make. Here's what you make here, you know? And so I think that she hasn't actually been that deceitful to him because it's unless he straight up said, do you have debt? And she said, no, I don't.
32:46 Speaker 02 Which in that case is a red flag. If a guy's asking you about your debt three months in.
32:49 Haley Sacks? Yeah, me on a first date, but like, yeah, for sure. Red flag. Bro show. So I think that like in that way, she's totally fine, but I also think that like people have so much shame about debt.
33:00 Speaker 02 Right.
33:00 Haley Sacks? But really the system is set up for you to get into debt and like it shouldn't be something, if she normalized it a bit and made it less that she was so ashamed and like secretive about it, but more, okay, yeah, this happened. I had a low paying job, but I have this plan to figure it out. Like we all just want someone who's on their way to greatness. It's not about where you came from. Actually, the worse your story was, the cooler your story will be. So it's like.
33:32 Speaker 02 And that's, and that's, and that's on period.
33:34 Haley Sacks? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So like, I feel like a lot of it also just comes down to the fact that like, A, she needs to rebrand her debt.
33:42 Speaker 02 Right.
33:42 Haley Sacks? To being like.
33:42 Speaker 02 Rebrand the debt. How so? What do you mean?
33:45 Haley Sacks? Like less, don't stigmatize it. Don't be like so emotional about it. And just be dead ass with him, but like not in the way where she's like apologetic, like, you know, like it's same, I was gonna say, oh, like I have herpes, but it's like, that's the same thing.
34:00 Speaker 02 It's like, is it affecting her life on a daily basis? And is her debt getting in the way?
34:04 Haley Sacks? No, she's not getting worse.
34:05 Speaker 02 But I'm saying, is her debt getting in the way of her relationship with this guy? Like, are they going out and all of a sudden, first of all, the guy should be paying anyway, but are they going out?
34:13 Haley Sacks? Facts.
34:14 Speaker 02 And she can't do certain things because his debt is in the back of her head. If no, then who cares? Just slowly chip away at it. And like you said, when you're at a crossroads, tell him.
34:23 Haley Sacks? Okay. My bestie and I, both female, 29, have been inseparable since college and describe each other as soulmates. Why don't you ever call me your soulmate, Pat? The one problem, our bank accounts are not soulmates. I got help from my parents early on, which set me up to save money while she was living paycheck to paycheck. And I work in industry with much higher earning potential. It feels like this is the one thing we can't talk about, but I feel like it's starting to eat away at us. Money's everywhere. It's something we're silently negotiating every time we make a dinner reservation or plan a trip. I don't want her to resent me. What should I do?
34:54 Speaker 02 Can I bring this to our relationship together?
34:57 Haley Sacks? I want you to.
34:58 Speaker 02 I think, I do honesty.
35:00 Haley Sacks? I do honesty.
35:00 Speaker 02 I think that we and Haley and I have never had.
35:03 Haley Sacks? Yeah, we've not had a.
35:04 Speaker 02 The money conversation about anything, but I think, I get emotional, but I think that there's a good, I think you just have to be honest with yourself about how you hang out with your friends and what you can spend. And you have to like, there are certain things that I do for you and there are certain things that you do for me. And I think as long as you appreciate the friend on a friend level. I think that's really all that matters, but her question was what?
35:29 Haley Sacks? No, I agree with you and I also think that like for like
35:32 Speaker 02 You can't look for things in someone.
35:34 Haley Sacks? But also what it's all proportional.
35:37 Speaker 02 Exact, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:38 Haley Sacks? So it's like, like, like me spending a hundred dollars might feel really different than like my friend who doesn't make as much spending a hundred dollars. So I just want to spend a hundred dollars so that it's not a big issue for them, for them to feel it.
35:51 Speaker 02 But you, but the thing is you recognize that.
35:53 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
35:54 Speaker 02 And I think that's what the person who has more money, I think where issues come in is sometimes people don't recognize.
35:59 Haley Sacks? But you want to be 50 50, but really you're not.
36:01 Speaker 02 Because then it builds resentment because then the person who has less money is like, well, what the fuck? This person's worth a billion dollars. I'm struggling to get by here like this lady who's maybe paycheck to paycheck. And then that builds resentment and drives a wedge.
36:14 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I got that too. Cause you don't ever want to be feel like you're used.
36:18 Speaker 02 Right. Exactly.
36:19 Haley Sacks? But in the same way, like it is so much more valuable. I think like money is less valuable to me than a good friend. Like, and like someone that like I love hanging out with and like is gonna like make the vacation so fun. Like it's like, okay, then like I like, I do that. I go to Greece every summer with my friends and like, I always pay more because I don't want to plan the trip and I don't want to stay in a gross hotel and I make more than them. And so I'm like, okay, plan the trip and I'll get the hotel. Like, you know, they pay a little bit, but like not as much.
36:51 Speaker 02 Which is so generous and I think.
36:53 Haley Sacks? But it's like, but it's generous on them to like, then they know every good restaurant they were going to. They plan the beach every day. Like, it's like the shit that I don't want to deal with, they're doing. So it's like.
37:03 Speaker 02 Saying that is what it that, that's how you should handle this situation. I think, and what's important to you is having things taken care of.
37:09 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
37:09 Speaker 02 You're like, fine, I'll spend.
37:11 Haley Sacks? Be with my friends.
37:11 Speaker 02 And being with your friends because then you spending and giving extra money, that makes them feel like, not that there would be resentment or anything. But that makes them feel like, oh, this is great. Like Haley is paying, you know, what she considers her fair share.
37:26 Haley Sacks? They always got me a gift too.
37:26 Speaker 02 And they're doing a gift.
37:27 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
37:28 Speaker 02 But I think people aren't comfortable doing that because I think you have to have a really solid friendship and a really good foundation in order to, from one perspective, not feel like you're getting used for your money. And on the other perspective, not feel like you're. Taking advantage or like being cheap. Does that make sense?
37:46 Haley Sacks? Yeah, but if they're this close, they've been inseparable since college. Like, it shouldn't be a big deal.
37:50 Speaker 02 No, not at all.
37:51 Haley Sacks? The one who's making more money just needs to like, like prorate her shit.
37:55 Speaker 02 But how do you, but that's the thing. How do you prorate it?
37:57 Haley Sacks? People need to just be more fucking funny with money. Like, it's like, they, like, honesty and humor go hand in hand. So just call a spade a spade. Like, that's what I would say to my friend, be like, ew, I'm not staying at that nasty ass hotel. Like, let's stay somewhere else instead. Here's the budge. Like, contribute what you can and like, we'll call it a day. You know what I mean?
38:15 Speaker 02 You offer to, you offer to take care of the difference, which I think is the, which is the huge difference. And I think people who are in a position to do that should do that more.
38:24 Haley Sacks? Hundred percent.
38:24 Speaker 02 Unless you're willing to stay in like the worst hotels.
38:27 Haley Sacks? No, no.
38:27 Speaker 02 But I actually think that strengthens a friendship.
38:29 Haley Sacks? A hundred percent.
38:30 Speaker 02 More than anything.
38:31 Haley Sacks? Yeah, a hundred percent. But also, don't be like so no boo every time you go out. Like, it's like, Avi, you gotta do like dumplings, like cook for them, like whatever the vibe is. Like, you know, you come over, I make you cheesy. My special recipe that we could do a special episode on. My special pasta recipe that your pack can't get enough of.
38:48 Speaker 02 It's, I've been eating this pasta that Haley's made.
38:50 Haley Sacks? Yes.
38:51 Speaker 02 For fifteen years.
38:52 Haley Sacks? It's never digested.
38:52 Speaker 02 It's, it's still in my stomach. It's like when you chew gum and the gum lasts in your stomach seven years. If you eat Haley's cheesy.
38:58 Haley Sacks? Cheesy.
38:59 Speaker 02 It's a twenty year, like, life, shelf, shelf life in your stomach.
39:02 Haley Sacks? One word, one word, wonder.
39:04 Speaker 02 It's a one word wonder.
39:05 Haley Sacks? One word wonder, cheesy, yeah.
39:07 Speaker 02 I think it all comes back to the strength of your friendship.
39:09 Haley Sacks? Even, and you're doing so well now, but even when you were doing less well and like I was, maybe could prop you up a little bit. It never felt like that at all. It was just always like, that's why it's worked.
39:21 Haley Sacks? Okay, this one is so crazy. This girl said, uh, a few nights ago, I went through my boyfriend's phone.
39:28 Speaker 02 Me?
39:29 Haley Sacks? I was not prepared for what I got.
39:30 Speaker 02 Literally me.
39:31 Haley Sacks? I opened his chat GPT and it was filled with questions and negative details about me and why he feels uncertain and met in our relationship. Questioning if he loves me, if it's normal to lose attraction so quickly in a relationship. I feel so hurt and betrayed all over just typing this. So what do I do? Do I confront him? Just leave? I haven't been able to face him the past couple of days and I'm just totally frozen.
39:57 Speaker 02 I went through a boyfriend, ex-boyfriend's phone and that's what ended our relationship. Although it was already on the outs and I did not like what I found. So I think you have to confront his ass. Honestly, just fucking confront him. It's not like it's gonna get out of your head. What questions was he asking?
40:15 Haley Sacks? Is it normal to lose attraction so quickly in a relationship? Like, or being like, is it normal to not be in love after five months?
40:22 Speaker 02 No, I think all relationships, it's like honeymoon, honeymoon, honeymoon. And then it dips and then it dips a little lower. And I think if you can make it through the lower dip, you come back up. If that makes sense. It's not, you're not always gonna be riding high in a relationship.
40:36 Haley Sacks? Yeah, but what do you do if you? That's hard because you broke the trust by doing the chat GPT. But also, I'm sorry, if you looked at my chat GPT, I would go to jail. Like, that's like a really intimate relationship. Me and my bot, you're gonna, you're gonna go, you're gonna look at my, talk with my bot? Like, that's a different vibe than like with anyone. Like, they know shit about me like no one else does.
40:57 Speaker 02 I think, yeah, I don't know.
40:59 Haley Sacks? Like, you're a chat GPT?
41:01 Speaker 02 I think it's kind of a red flag to ask chat GPT about a relationship, right? Isn't that a weird thing to do?
41:08 Haley Sacks? I think a lot of people do.
41:09 Speaker 02 See, when I use it, I'm just like asking the most mundane questions I can find online. Okay, like, what's the tire pressure on my, what should be on my motorcycle?
41:16 Haley Sacks? It's like motorcycle.
41:17 Speaker 02 I'm not like, or like, when is my hair gonna be better? Or like, when is my knee gonna be fixed? Or what should I look for when I'm getting new teeth? If I, I don't ask it personal questions, but I realize people use it as therapy.
41:27 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
41:28 Speaker 02 But this is gonna eat away at her no matter what. So you have to confront him. You just have to make up a good enough lie as to why you're in his phone.
41:34 Haley Sacks? I think she just wanted to go on chat GPT to look something up. Maybe like her phone was dead and she was trying to...
41:41 Speaker 02 Which never happens to anyone, ever. No one's phone dies.
41:44 Haley Sacks? And if it does, it's an urgency.
41:45 Speaker 02 Yes.
41:46 Haley Sacks? Like, I'm finding a charger. Like, that's not lasting.
41:48 Speaker 02 No.
41:49 Haley Sacks? Like, it's like, it's not like we're just like, oh, it's dead, like...
41:51 Speaker 02 That's the level of, oh, the message didn't come through. Yes, it did.
41:54 Haley Sacks? So then maybe she just is straight up because then if he, it's like when you find out someone's cheating.
41:59 Speaker 02 Right.
42:00 Haley Sacks? When then they say, how'd you find out? It's like, babe, that's not the problem. Like, the problem, the issue here is not that I found out you're cheating. It's that you're cheating.
42:08 Speaker 02 Right.
42:08 Haley Sacks? So the problem is not that I went on ChatGPT. Yeah, I'm a little crazy, whatever. The problem is that you were asking a robot about our relationship, and it wasn't good stuff. It seems like you have a lot of doubts.
42:20 Speaker 02 If you're gonna ask that question, and you come at him like that, know your relationship's over. Because it's already on the rocks. If he's asking ChatGPT, so if you come at him and you're like, what were you, like, fuck it, I'm out. You gotta be, I think maybe you ignore it. Ride the low wave of the relationship.
42:35 Haley Sacks? That is such a hot take.
42:37 Speaker 02 You ignore it.
42:38 Haley Sacks? You think that you could be in a relationship where you found out that a guy was asking, they are saying, oh, I don't know if I want to fuck Pat anymore. He's gross. I don't love Pat. Pat and I aren't compatible. No, like, Pat and I aren't compatible. Like, again, you just go to dinner with him the next day. Hey, sweetie, this was really fun. You are obviously an icon, a legend. I think that this might have to be a repeating segment. Because no one, I'm hoping that you come back and do more, more Dear Sugar Mama with us.
43:09 Speaker 02 I would love to.
43:10 Haley Sacks? Obviously, we couldn't do an actual interview because you refused to be open about your finances. So I just wanted to sort of preface that with this. That I did try to have Pat come in and like, tell us about Barstool. Like, tell us about all this, like, money stuff. And like, that was just hit with an absolute no. And so, this is the best we can do, and it was great.
43:29 Speaker 02 It's a little tricky, like, when you work for a company, and like, you go on a show, and they're like, hey, what the fuck, why are you revealing this? But when I get fired, which will eventually happen, then I'll talk all about it.
43:39 Haley Sacks? I don't know if it hasn't happened by now.
43:41 Speaker 02 I think I might be good.
43:42 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I think you're good. I think you're good.
43:43 Speaker 02 Fingers crossed.
43:44 Haley Sacks? Okay, obsessed with you. Everyone has to listen to Out and About. It's literally my favorite podcast. It comes out every Wednesday. It's so freaking funny. Pat, you're truly, you have the gift of gab. You're the horror story of our generation. So lucky that you're here. And how much do you make?
43:59 Speaker 02 I tell it on Out and About this week. 5:00 AM at jobs, Wednesday, yeah.
44:03 Haley Sacks? Wait, you're giving that the, oh, I'm gonna get so upset, okay. Stay rich.
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