Is Egg Freezing Worth $20,000? ft. NY's Top Fertility Dr.

Join Haley for a crash course in everything EGG FREEZING. She talks about her own experience going through the process twice, everything they don't tell you beforehand, and breaks down ALL of the numbers. Then she calls up Dr. Moomjy, the top fertility doctor in NY, for expert advice and myth-busting. Stick around until the end for action items on how you can lower your fertility bills. Go to ancientandbrave.com/planet and use code TEA for $10 off any purchase. Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones is a Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us at @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Haley Sacks?

  Okay, so I just gave my apartment a major refresh and hands down, the hardest thing to get right was the rug. I just couldn't find one that fit right. And I really wanted something that pulled the room together because like a rug is a big deal. But then I found Ernesta and Ernesta's amazing, you guys. It makes designer quality rugs custom cut to the exact size of your space. So it actually fits instead of almost fits and looks great the first time. Like in the past, I've just defaulted to stock sizes when buying rugs. And also like when you're in a New York City apartment, that really just doesn't cut it, but they're all weirdly shaped. But with Ernesta, you can send photos and dimension to Ernesta's design team and they help you get the size exactly right, completely free of charge.

• 0:45Haley Sacks?

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• 1:07Speaker 01

  The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases,

• 1:52Speaker 01

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• 2:39Haley Sacks?

  What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, AKA Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea. Okay, sippers, welcome back to Financial Tea, the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. And as a single 34-year-old woman, one of the questions that I get asked most is not, can I set you up with my Jewish friend? Which would be a great question to get asked a lot, but instead it's about my egg freezing journey, which is fine. It's my cross to bear. I posted about it and I am passionate about it. I've done it twice and I know as women, this is a complicated subject. It's a complicated one for me, too.

• 3:21Haley Sacks?

  We all know that we should freeze our eggs, but it's sort of impossible to know when the right time is or like how we're going to afford it or what the process is actually like. So I wanted to share my story, knowing that yours, of course, is going to be different. But if there's one thing that I really did learn during this process, it's how important support and information is. And then I also want to walk you through all of the ways financially to egg freeze, through your employer, through grants, through different kinds of clinics, through going abroad. We're going to break it all down. So consider this your masterclass in how to actually fund egg freezing, because this is an important thing to think about. Like, I write about this a lot in Future Rich Person, my book, The New Rules of Building

• 4:04Haley Sacks?

  Wealth, but our generations, millennials and Gen Z, are hitting milestones way out of order. It used to be like, you know, get married, have kids, the whole thing. But now it could be career and then have a kid and then maybe we get married. And it's like, you know, there's no rhyme or reason to how we do things now. We have so much more freedom, which is great, but it's also hard because there's no playbook and we're in the Wild West, just trying to find. Answers like, okay, I'm 34. I definitely want to be a mom, but that is not my focus right now. So how can I use money to buy myself more time? Does anyone else relate to that? And that is not a question that like my mom had to answer.

• 4:47Haley Sacks?

  It's not a question that most of our mothers had to answer, except like maybe my friend Abigail, because she was the first IVF baby lol. Shout out Abigail. But the whole point is that we're in this choose your own adventure model now. And money is what gives us the freedom as women to make these choices. And that's why I'm so passionate about empowering you with financial literacy, because it really just opens up what you can do with your life and gives you the paintbrush to decide what you want to make of it. But I also want to be real that while egg freezing fits into that plan, it's something that I also feel really strange about. And I do find to be a bit of a pink tax on women where like it's a very fear driven, why we do this, there's no guarantee that it's going to work. I'm not an evangelist for it, despite having done it twice.

• 5:29Haley Sacks?

  Like I'm grateful for having the financial means to have given myself this insurance, but there is really no guarantee that the eggs I have frozen are going to work out. And it's so much mental strain and time and your body blows up, which is a mind fuck. But I guess for me, I always felt it was better to roll the dice than not to do it at all. So today is not about if it's right or wrong to freeze your eggs. I see both sides of why people would or wouldn't. But I wanted to just candidly share my own experience and sort of break down what the financial figures look like, give you options for how to afford it so that you can just make a more informed decision for yourself. And then later on in the episode, we're going to talk to Dr. Moonji, who is the top fertility expert in New York.

• 6:13Haley Sacks?

  She did my second egg freeze and I'm going to ask her a few of your questions. And she has a really interesting expert perspective and gives it to us straight. But first, let's get into the MDJ market report. What's up, sippers? Welcome back to the MDJ Market Report, where I give you the top money stories of the week. And today is all about Bieber Chella, because there's a lot happening with Justin's performances at Coachella that have to do with the economy and finances. And you guys know I love pop culture and I love money. So this is like my dream market report. Let's jump in. So first of all, Justin was reportedly paid a record-breaking $10 million for the festival.

• 6:55Haley Sacks?

  But what's cool is he negotiated the deal directly with the promoter, so he could bypass the 10% to 15% agency fees. So it's a $10 million paycheck. That means that he has an extra $1.5 million in his pocket, just because he cut out all the middlemen, which to me is swag. And speaking of swag, Justin is majority performing songs from Swag and Swag 2 at Coachella. And this is sort of the Taylor's version effect, because, no, he's not re-uploading his old hits, but Justin is using the world's biggest stage to signal to his fans that like the swag era is the only one that he actually backs.

• 7:40Haley Sacks?

  And that's because it's the only one that he's actually getting paid for. Like every stream generated by Coachella for Swag is going to go directly to his bottom line. Whereas a performance of Peaches, or Sorry, or Baby, which is such a good song, would benefit HSC Capital, which is the firm that bought his 290-song catalog for $200 million in 2022. So he sold his masters, and now he's basically starving his old catalog that he doesn't own and feeding only his new assets, which are his two new albums, Swag and Swag 2. Like if he can do a major festival with his owned IP, it will help him regain so much leverage over his career and also make him not beholden to like past contacts,

• 8:25Haley Sacks?

  which, you know, I love to see from a child star. Like, you know, in a perfect world, this would be happening for Britney, too. We just love to see someone who sort of had like nefarious business management. Gets back on top. So we're rooting for you, Justin. But speaking of profiting from Justin's music, Bill Ackman, that freak billionaire hedge fund manager who told, who gave everyone dating advice and said that if you want to meet a girl, just go up to her and say, may I meet you? Okay, weird. Just bid $55 billion for UMG, which is the label that still holds Bieber's masters. And Bill's idea is that despite fears of AI, major labels still have really good fundamentals. So like, this could be a positive investment.

• 9:09Haley Sacks?

  And I think people think that AI-generated music is this huge threat. Bill thinks in a sea of AI content, proven iconic human brands like Bieber's catalog and Swift's catalog and Drake are actually going to become more valuable because they're authentic and irreplaceable. So there's sort of this irony because Justin is trying to pivot from the music that UMG controls to maximize his profits. But Ackman is bidding billions because he thinks Justin is like this blue chip stock. I feel like this really sort of should help us frame how we think about AI as this threat in the workplace. Because you have to realize that if you are able to do something that no one else can do, you're still going to be super valuable. Like, that's why you see so many articles about like,

• 9:54Haley Sacks?

  oh, is college worth it still with AI? What should people study? And it is all about the humanities. Because if you're able to put out things into the world that could never be computer generated, then you're always going to have worth. But also learn how to use AI. That's really how you protect yourself from it. Um, yeah, and if you're, you know, a sponsor of Coachella, this is coming out before weekend two. I just want you to know, I'm mobile. I will go. Um, so yeah, feel free to reach out. That being said, I don't actually know if I'm allowed to go to Coachella legally. I feel like I am in a full conservatorship. Just sort of bring it back to Brittany because my book, Future Rich Person, is coming out May 12th. And like, I put so much of myself into this book and so actually like getting it out in the

• 10:34Haley Sacks?

  world in the proper way is like this huge ordeal, but also really exciting. And I will say that if you haven't ordered it yet, pre-ordered it, you should do that because you're going to want the book. Like it's going to take over the culture. If you like listening to me, you're going to love my book about money. It's going to teach you everything that you never knew. But also, when you preorder, you get like $700 worth of freebies. And so much of this podcast is helping you to stay rich and get rich. And like, what better than a finance book that's going to give you all the information that you need to grow wealth in this new age that also comes with so many freebies? Like, you're doubling down. You are Bill Ackman who? You're the billionaire. Okay. Now let's get into my episode about egg freezing. Yeah, we're going there.

• 11:22Speaker 02

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• 11:52Speaker 03

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• 12:21Haley Sacks?

  Basically, I always knew that I should freeze my eggs because life was not trending towards like a 27-year-old marriage. Like when I was 27, I was, you know, fucking guys on a roof from Tinder and like doing comedy. Like, I don't know, I was, it was not, I was not focused. I was not out there trying to get the ring. And my sister is really career-oriented too. She definitely needed to freeze her eggs because she works all the time. She works weekends. She did it when she was 30 and I was like implanted it in my mind, okay, this is something that I should definitely do as someone who's also really career-focused and, you know, doesn't have as much going on in terms of, you know, natural family planning right now. So I don't know, I just wanted options. I wanted to diversify my

• 13:03Haley Sacks?

  portfolio of ways to motherhood. And I also found a lot of inspiration in my favorite celebrities. So I read an article where Mindy Kaling said that she wished that every 19-year-old girl would come home from college and that the gift that their parents would give them instead of like jewelry or vacation would be egg freezing. And then, this was really the kicker, Jennifer Aniston said that she would have given anything for someone to have told her to freeze her eggs at a younger age. And I was like, my girl Jen, like, okay, fine. You're telling me and I'm listening. I'm gonna do it. So I went for that initial consultation without telling anyone at one of those like cool designer fertility clinics, you know, that are like backed by private equity and they have fun snacks in the waiting

• 13:44Haley Sacks?

  room and they offer you flavored seltzers. And it was there that I had my first ultrasound and I learned more about my reproductive health, you guys, than I ever cared to know. Because it turns out that you have two ovaries, okay, plural. Let's call them Mary-Kate and Ashley. And for me, Mary-Kate was thriving. Great news. She was killing it. But Ashley, she was making fewer eggs. Yeah. I was still within the normal range, but it was the first of many times during this experience that I felt scared and confused about my own body. And honestly, just deeply empathetic also towards other women. And so when I left, I did what any adventurous woman would do and I called my mother. Who was excited and supportive. I will give her that. Love you, Patty.

• 14:28Haley Sacks?

  But she also said, like, Haley, you are a financial pop star. Would you bank somewhere that was not FDIC insured? Certainly not. So why are you going to go to a doctor that is not backed by a hospital? So she had a point, like, while this private equity backed clinic with like a cool Instagram was white glove with like a great reputation. All these people online were going there. Going old school was the best call for me. I wanted to go to a clinic that was backed by a hospital. So I think that what was really confusing to me, and if you haven't done egg freezing before, something to think about is like, I definitely went into it thinking that the whole process was a sure thing. Like,

• 15:08Haley Sacks?

  I genuinely believed the hardest part was just like finding time in the calendar to get myself to do it and like fricking doing it. But then I realized that actually the hardest part is having a successful retrieval, like getting healthy eggs in good numbers at the same size. That's tough. Like every single day they're giving me a different egg count, a different retrieval date. And like, here's the thing that no one really tells you going in is like, your doctor does have a target number for you. So like, my general physician told me that my goal was, should be to have at least 20 eggs banked before I turned 35. And so I did this all at 30, thinking that I was like, okay, home free. I have 12 eggs. Great. I'm gonna have insurance for a kid. I can have kids from this.

• 15:53Haley Sacks?

  But then my physician was like, no, girl, you actually need like eight more to feel safe. That is your benchmark. That will give you the best statistical shot at successful pregnancy down the road. And obviously I didn't hit that number after my first retrieval. I just realized like, okay, the whole reason I did this was to buy myself options and like coming up short and calling it done just felt like almost leaving money on the table, which as you know, is not really my vibe. So even though I really didn't want to, I went back when I was 34 this January. I'm still 34. And I want to be honest with you, like, it was, I guess it was easier the second time because I knew what to expect.

• 16:34Haley Sacks?

  Like, I wasn't scared of the needles as much, but A, I absolutely fucked up my medication the second time, which was my bad. We can talk about that. But it all worked out. And two, it was not easier. Like, I- I definitely gained more weight this time. I felt like it was harder to come off of the hormones this time. Like I had, they had like a longer afterlife than what I remembered, but I came out the other side with my number. God was listening. We hit 20. Hallelujah. And then I went immediately the next day to the Grammys, which was crazy because I was so, so bloated and I just wore like a tent to the award show and got the darkest spray tan that I

• 17:15Haley Sacks?

  could and had the best hair and makeup people in LA, put about 40 pounds of like blush and hairspray and fake hair in me and called it a night. And I made it in the Daily Mail. So all's well that ends well. But even with 20 eggs, I don't have certainty. Like that's what's so crazy about this is like, there's never certainty. There will never be certainty until I have children. But now let's get into the finances because I have like every option available to you of how to afford egg freezing, even if it feels really out of reach because obviously 10 to $20,000 a cycle is a lot. Oh, and I want to be financially transparent with you guys. The first egg freezing cycle was 15K. The second egg freezing cycle was 17K. The first egg freezing cycle, my family helped me with. They want grandkids. The second egg freezing

• 18:00Haley Sacks?

  cycle, I paid for myself. So that is my truth.

• 18:06Haley Sacks?

  This episode of Financial Tea is brought to you by Ancient and Brave. They have been an iconic and trusted wellness brand in the UK for years. And now that they have launched in the US across the pond, I have been integrating two of their hero products into my daily routine. I like their True Creatine Plus and their True Collagen. And let's start with the True Creatine Plus, baby, because suddenly everyone is taking creatine. But what's interesting is that women naturally store 70 to 80% less creatine than men, which means we can actually experience more noticeable benefits from supplementation. And Ancient and Brave's True Creatine Plus not only helps enhance physical performance, but it has added taurine, vitamin D, and magnesium.

• 18:48Haley Sacks?

  So it also helps support energy, improve cognitive function, and just overall well-being. It's neutral tasting and I take it daily, even on my non-workout days. I've been stacking that with their bestselling clinically studied True Collagen, which is a hero product for positive aging, active lifestyles, and just like that beauty from within. Go to ancientandbrave.com/planet and use code T for $10 off any purchase. That's ancientandbrave.com/planet, code T for $10 off.

• 19:26Haley Sacks?

  I have structured this into sort of like a three lane highway. There is our corporate cheat code. There is the smart financing play. And then there is the self-funded strategy. And I also have a couple of bonus routes if none of those fit. Lane one, let's talk about the corporate cheat code because if you have employer-sponsored health benefits, this is the first place to look. And it honestly might be the only place you need to look. Like a lot of companies now use third-party fertility benefit platforms to offer what I can only describe as like a fertility lifeline. And so the big names that you want to look for are Carrot, Maven, Kindbody.

• 20:10Haley Sacks?

  If your company partners with any of those, like you could really be sitting on some serious coverage that you didn't even know about. So go ask your HR and be really specific. Don't ask if your health plan covers fertility treatments. Ask if it covers elective or social egg freezing. Those are the magic words because some employers might offer a lifetime dollar cap, like $20,000, while others offer like a set number of cycles. Either way, they could potentially cover your entire cost. And so we've got to find out what the T is. And if you work at Google, I'm so jealous because they give you amazing fertility benefits. And also my friend who works at a consulting agency froze her eggs three times and each time it only cost her $200 out of pocket.

• 20:55Haley Sacks?

  So you can really milk those employment benefits, baby. Okay, now let's talk about lane two, which I feel like people don't talk about enough, specialized fertility financing. So, you know, obviously if you put this on a standard credit card, hard pass because the interest rates are going to eat you alive. Like you don't want to pay a 24% APR on your egg retrieval. But there are lenders who are built specifically for fertility. Like there's this one called Future Family, which offers monthly payment plans around

• 21:29Haley Sacks?

  $199 a month and they will bundle in your medications and even a fertility coach. Gaia is also a newer player in this field where you pay an upfront fee and they protect you from the cost of multiple cycles. There's also ARC fertility, which does multi-cycle bundles that like really bring down the per-cycle costs significantly. And these are not perfect for everyone, but I do want to shout them out because they exist to make things more accessible and that is definitely worth knowing. You can also always ask your fertility doctor if they will do a payment plan with you, you know, a zero interest payment plan over a set amount of time.

• 22:13Haley Sacks?

  That's also a really good option. I will also say there's a lot of ways to get cheaper medications now too, like Costco is now doing fertility medication and it's a really good deal. So you just have to know where to look. But lane three is the self-funded strategy, which is what I did because I'm my own boss and unfortunately, Mrs. Dow Jones does not offer fertility benefits yet, which sucks. I hate my boss. But if you are paying out of pocket, the tax code is really your friend. So two things to know, first of all, HSAs and FSAs, those health spending accounts. If you have a health savings account or a flexible spending account, you can use those

• 22:53Haley Sacks?

  pre-tax dollars to pay for a significant portion of your egg freezing costs. So depending on your tax bracket, that could potentially be like a 20 to 30% discount, which definitely is real money. If your total reimbursed medical expenses exceed 7.5% of your adjusted gross income in a year, you can deduct them. And egg freezing almost always clears that bar. So definitely talk to your accountant before your cycle, not after, and see if there's some sort of medical tax deduction that you can work out. Then there's like a few bonus routes just to throw out there, like there's strategic clinic shopping, like CNY fertility is known as the most affordable option in the US. Their cycles are between three to five K plus men.

• 23:39Haley Sacks?

  Compared to the national average. So that's a huge difference. And they also offer in-house financing with 0% interest for a set period, which rocks. And then there's also grants that you can apply for. Yes, which is actual free money. Like the Baby Quest Foundation awards grants twice a year based on financial need. There's also Nest Ag Foundation, which serves New York and Connecticut residences with up to $20,000. And also the Cade Foundation, which offers family building grants specifically for diverse applicants. So these are very competitive, but they are real and applying will cost you nothing but time. And you might get a lot out of it.

• 24:19Haley Sacks?

  Now let's talk to my fertility doctor, Dr. Moon G, who unfortunately did not give me a grant or let me do any fertility financing, but she is an expert. She's been a fertility doctor for over 20 years and really is the top of her game. And she works with NYU, which is responsible for 1% of all IVF babies in the world. So she really knows what she's talking about. And I asked her your questions and she's a great resource. So let's jump in there.

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• 25:20Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 25:49Haley Sacks?

  What's the most that anyone's ever spent on retrievals with you?

• 25:53Speaker 05

  You know, when it comes to retrievals, I always say, you know, let's analyze the retrieval you just did and let's analyze your family plan and see what you actually need.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  So I'm not, and it's exhausting and it's expensive and it's invasive and it's, you know, there's side effects. So people don't tend to do like retrieval after retrieval, but you know, maybe in the course of a year, they might do too, if they feel like they need, you know, more eggs or if the relationship breaks up, they come back.

• 26:25Haley Sacks?

  But have you ever like, like what is the like, the, who's like your biggest customer that you've ever had, like over the years? Like, was there one person who stands out where you're like, damn, like they did everything like a million times?

• 26:39Speaker 05

  The people who end up doing a lot of IVF often have like a co-factor. So there's a genetic problem in the family. So half the embryos that they make, they can't use, you know, something, or there's a very severe male factor and half the eggs don't fertilize. So those people end up doing a lot of IVF, but it's rare in this day and age that I would have anybody in my practice who did more than five cycles. And I've had people have like entire families on two cycles.

• 27:10Haley Sacks?

  Wow. And so how much would it like, what's like the high end of how much that would cost? And then what's like the average amount that someone really spends with you?

• 27:19Speaker 05

  So, I mean, costs in general, you know, cycles are gonna run somewhere between like 15,000, you know, for the month. So you're talking about all the ultrasounds, the bloods, the embryology, the anesthesia, you know, I'm not talking about like me per se, but I'm talking about the whole team.

• 27:36Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 05

  But the wild card is also pharmacy. So injectable medications historically were another five to 8,000 for an IVF cycle. Now, interestingly, like two months ago, there was a shakeup and the pharmaceutical companies reduced their prices.

• 27:56Haley Sacks?

  I saw that. And now they're at Costco too.

• 27:58Speaker 05

  Yeah. And I don't know what the reason was. I honestly call it a shoe happened about 15 years ago. So I don't know how it happened finally, but it did happen. So that helped a lot.

• 28:10Haley Sacks?

  I feel like there's a lot of girls listening who are probably like in their twenties and thirties, haven't frozen eggs yet.

• 28:18Haley Sacks?

  And are trying to decide if it's worth it. And I think a big question, like, I think something that confused people was why I did it twice. Because obviously, that's double the amount of money. Like, I've now spent like 35K probably all in on egg freezing in my life, which is a huge investment. Like, that in the stock market would obviously be worth millions. And, you know, by the time I retired. But I guess, like, what is the hallmark of retrieval? Where, like, what's the amount where you're like, okay, you got a good number of eggs. You're safe. And are there factors that this success depends on? Like, people always say acupuncture. Should we stop drinking? Like, are there things that we can do to help make our investment in egg freezing more fruitful?

• 29:03Speaker 05

  Great question. So when the first comes to the decision of whether or not to freeze eggs, I think people should be at least availing themselves to some sort of fertility consult, like, between the ages of 28 and 32, no matter what. In a relationship, single, whatever. The idea is a consult. Like, understand what's your history? Are there risk factors for any fertility, you know, doctors there? What could you evaluate? And for most people, like, at least having two tests. One is a pelvic ultrasound and the other is a blood test called the AMH, which is a hormone secreted by immature egg cells. And it gives us an idea of the ovarian reserve.

• 29:46Speaker 05

  Is it comparable to what your age-related group has, you know, in lab data? Or is it above or is it below? And so when you put those things together and then have the conversation, like, how many children do you think you may want? When might, when might you get started? A lot of people think, oh, I'll stop the pill today and I'll hopefully be pregnant in two months. And it's like, if you've been on the pill 10 years, it could take you six months to get your period back.

• 30:16Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 30:17Speaker 05

  So, so this is where the fertility consult comes in. Like, just understand your own factors. And, you know, how can you position yourself for better fertility? You know, going forward and whether your plans are this year or three years from now.

• 30:33Haley Sacks?

  Okay. And then what is like a good number of eggs during a retrieval where you would only have to do it once? And what's like the threshold to having to have to do it multiple times? And like, is there a goal number of eggs that we should try and have banked by a certain age?

• 30:50Speaker 05

  So another great question. So it's a combination of what is your age now? And how many eggs did you bag? And so we actually on NYU have collated the data that we have because we've been doing egg freezing pretty much the longest. And the problem with egg freezing is you have to wait for people to actually come back and thaw and have a transfer and then have a baby to get the data.

• 31:14Haley Sacks?

  No, I've never felt worse about being like, I think like my mother makes me feel bad about being single, but the science of how shitty it is to have an egg versus an embryo will really get you swiping on Hinge. Like if there was ever, if I'd ever had any sort of incentive to find a boyfriend, find a husband, it was that. It was that.

• 31:34Speaker 05

  But according to our, our most current data, if you're, and I was just looking at the chart this week, if you're, you know, 31 and you have 20 eggs frozen, it seems that you have like an, an 80 ish percent chance of an ongoing pregnancy from that group of eggs. Getting back to what you can do to preserve, because she asked that a little bit ago.

• 31:57Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. What should we do? Like, should we be on prenatals? Should we be like avoiding the sauna? Is it okay that I love martinis?

• 32:05Speaker 05

  Well, we'll start with the most important thing is avoid all types of smoke and vaping. Like it is really shockingly a negative factor for ovaries. And people don't know that. And yeah, kids in high school and college who smoked definitely have a lower responsiveness in this process.

• 32:27Haley Sacks?

  No. Okay. I don't vape. I don't vape.

• 32:29Speaker 05

  Ability to last longer. I can't stress it enough.

• 32:33Haley Sacks?

  Okay.

• 32:34Speaker 05

  We don't have data on sauna and eggs, but we have data on sauna and sperm and they're, they don't do well. And so I always think whatever happens to sperm is probably happening to the eggs. So I generally recommend not to do sauna until your family is done.

• 32:51Haley Sacks?

  It's so crazy because then they're like, no, you have to do the sauna because it gets rid of the cancer and the microplastics in your blood. And it's like, we can't win. We're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't.

• 33:00Speaker 05

  Mercury levels are not good for eggs. So if someone loves sushi and eats it all the time, they should check a mercury level.

• 33:07Haley Sacks?

  Shoot. Okay. So all the things that I love, a European cigarette, spicy tuna roll and the sauna, they all gotta go.

• 33:17Speaker 05

  I mean, as far as alcohol, there was one, one good study that said that IDF patients who kept to no more than four drinks a week had better embryos than those who drank more than four cars a week. But, you know, it was in the two months before I did it.

• 33:30Haley Sacks?

  My other question is, like, this is a solution, obviously for infertility, but it's also a solution for single girlies who have not met their partner yet and are like, SOS, I do not want to settle, but I do want to be a mom one day. So let me do this. And like, you know, that's a lot of money for a single girly to spend. So like, how do you support people financially in your practice who maybe can't afford to do this outright? Like, are there payment plans available?

• 34:03Speaker 05

  Patients who finish their cycle will give us their leftover medications and we'll specifically look for people who don't have any coverage whatsoever and, you know, give them the donated medications.

• 34:14Haley Sacks?

  Also, I wanted to just ask, like, are there any big myths that come up a lot about fertility doctorhood that you would like to debunk here or about the process?

• 34:24Speaker 05

  I'm always surprised how people think that they can be on the long-term pill or long-term contraceptive or IUD for five, six, seven, eight years and stop it in one month and most likely be pregnant in the next two to three months. The, you know, long-term contraception is very suppressing to the ovaries or the uterus or both. And you need to really include in your plan like six months minimum of like getting contraception out of your system and getting your cycle back. And people are just like depressed when, you know, their three months lost the pill and they haven't even ovulated yet. And, you know, to me, that's like

• 35:06Speaker 05

  A large, very significant missing information in this culture.

• 35:10Haley Sacks?

  Like be patient with your bod.

• 35:12Speaker 05

  Well, be aware that you can't turn contraception on and off in a day.

• 35:19Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, it's not like you take it out. It's not like a floodgate is then open. Like you have to rebalance.

• 35:25Speaker 05

  You have to get your cycle back. Your contraception deliberately suppresses your cycle, suppresses the hormone, it suppresses the uterine lining, it suppresses the ovaries' ability to actually ovulate. And that takes time to get back. And people don't factor that in. You know, their last, you know, reproductive conversation was like in sixth grade and they

• 35:48Haley Sacks?

  No, we're really not taught. It's like finance. We're never taught about it.

• 35:52Speaker 05

  One, you know, exposure to sperm will yield one pregnancy. And like, maybe when you're 14, not when you're 30 or 34 or 38 or 40, like absolutely not. So people don't have a realistic understanding of transitioning from long-term contraception to trying to conceive. But that's where I think, again, a fertility consult is really important. Like, get yourself into a proper timeframe.

• 36:19Haley Sacks?

  But if you're on the pill or you have an IUD or something and you want to freeze your eggs, like how long in advance should you go off?

• 36:26Speaker 05

  I like people off the pill at least two months before they freeze their eggs. It is just a better cycle. And I'll even take a look with ultrasound after two months and say, like, are your ovaries waking up? Or should we wait another month? When it comes to the IUD, similarly, like, it should be at, you know, two to three months before you start trying to conceive. But if you're trying to freeze your eggs, interestingly, the IUD does not impact the overall responsiveness.

• 36:49Haley Sacks?

  So it's a good Oh, it's just pop that thing out and then bing, bang, boom.

• 36:54Speaker 05

  No, no, you can leave.

• 36:55Haley Sacks?

  You can leave it in.

• 36:57Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 36:58Haley Sacks?

  Wow.

• 36:59Speaker 05

  Leave the IUD in for an egg-free cycle. But the pill is just too suppressing. So you want that off whenever possible for at least two months.

• 37:08Haley Sacks?

  Okay. Thank you, Dr. Moonji. Talk to you soon.

• 37:15Haley Sacks?

  Thank you guys so much for listening. I want to just give you action items really, really fast before you close this episode. Please write these down. Step one, please just make sure that you schedule that fertility checkup if this is something that you're curious about, just so you can understand where your baseline is. Number two, log into your benefits portal or email HR and ask specifically if your plan covers elective or social egg freezing. Remember, use those exact words. Three, if you have an HSA or an FSA, find out your current balance and whether egg freezing qualifies. Spoiler alert, it usually does. Four, look up CNY fertility, future family, and Gaia, just so you can get familiar with what's out there. Knowledge really is leverage. I also want

• 37:59Haley Sacks?

  to shout out that a lot of people freeze their eggs abroad, and those cycles can be like $3,000 to $5,000. So obviously, a lot cheaper than the US median, but also a risk because you're farther away from home. You have to be there for a long time, which requires the financial burden of putting yourself up. You have to take off work if you can't work remotely, whereas like if you were in America, you could just go to work while you were doing all the injections. So there's like a lot to think about, but it's definitely something that I've heard from a lot of people that is a way to just get this done. They've done it overseas and it's really worked.

• 38:40Speaker 06

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