Birkins, Botox & Bad Money Decisions ft. Olivia Attwood

The widely beloved Olivia Attwood is at Haley’s House today, and they breakdown everything from Olivia’s best and worst purchases ever, needing to shrink yourself in relationships to make men feel bigger, what it means to be a career driven woman in your mid-thirties, the aesthetic augmentation Olivia regrets, having supportive fans, and much more. Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones is a Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us at @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Haley Sacks?

  Okay, so I just gave my apartment a major refresh and hands down, the hardest thing to get right was the rug. I just couldn't find one that fit right. And I really wanted something that pulled the room together because like a rug is a big deal. But then I found Ernesta and Ernesta's amazing, you guys. It makes designer quality rugs custom cut to the exact size of your space. So it actually fits instead of almost fits and looks great the first time. Like in the past, I've just defaulted to stock sizes when buying rugs. And also like when you're in a New York City apartment, that really just doesn't cut it, but they're all weirdly shaped. But with Ernesta, you can send photos and dimension to Ernesta's design team and they help you get the size exactly right, completely free of charge.

• 0:45Haley Sacks?

  Hand selected by design experts, Ernesta rugs are beautiful, they're durable, and they're made for the way you actually live. Cut, finished, and delivered in as little as two weeks. Visit ernesta.com and order five samples for only $10 and you will get $50 toward any rug of your choice. That is E R N E S T A dot com.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases,

• 1:52Speaker 01

  see if you're actually on track to where you wanted to be. You can ask Monarch's AI assistant anything about your finances. Like, hey, how much should I spend on travel last summer? Can I afford this vacation without touching my savings? You can spot things you wouldn't think about before, like, oh, hey, has my spending gone up or just inflation? I was using pen and paper. Now you can use tools like a full financial advisor in your pocket and that's called Monarch. So what you want to do is you want to go to monarch.com, use code trading. The first year of Monarch Core is half off at just 50 bucks. That's 50% off your first year. Just go to monarch.com with code trading.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  I love men. My God, it's like, that's been, you know, since I'm 15 years old, that's been my undoing. And I always want to have a man in my life. The difference is I know that I don't need one.

• 2:47Haley Sacks?

  I love that.

• 2:51Haley Sacks?

  What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, AKA Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea. Okay, you guys, you are going to be gagged because none other than Olivia Atwood is here at Financial Tea. You may know her from Love Island, or maybe from the multiple doc series she hosts, like The Price of Perfection and Filthy Rich, or maybe from your second screen, from her unboxings on TikTok, or from her hit podcast, Olivia's House, or her radio show on Sirius. I mean, the girl is everywhere. She's nowhere. She's here. She's elusive. She's Olivia. She said I could come on her podcast, Olivia's House, so I am obviously looking into rewards flights. As we speak, going across the pond, going to do a crossover episode.

• 3:36Haley Sacks?

  There is a moment in the episode, I'm going to warn you, where I do try a little, like maybe half of an accent, and then I quickly switch back. So just want to flag that here because it is a safe space. But, you know, when in Rome, let's welcome Olivia Atwood to the show. But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report. What's up, sippers? Welcome back to the Market Report, where I give you the top three stories happening on Wall Street and what they mean for your wallet. Okay, so the first story, obviously, we are all obsessed with looks-maxing and clavicular. But I am soft-launching a new trend called expense-maxing, because this war in Iran, it's not going anywhere. I'm recording this on Monday.

• 4:19Haley Sacks?

  Trump was tweeting, or was on Truth Social yesterday, like threatening Iran. Like, I, I'm very confused about how this ends and what's going on with the Strait of Hormuz, which obviously we need opened because that's going to drive down gas prices. And when gas... Is expensive, everything is more expensive because everything revolves around oil. And so I was trying to think about like, okay, how are we going to deal with this? Like, we're all just, you know, trying to get by and enjoy our lives a little. And so I do think that I have a solution. It is called expense maxing. And similar to looks maxing, you have to go all in. And it's basically when you focus really hard on bringing down your fixed expenses and you max them out.

• 5:03Haley Sacks?

  So like your car insurance, your phone bill, your utilities. I want you guys this week to get on the horn and try to get a lower rate on these things that you're just paying willy nilly every month without thinking about. Because I swear there is so much root for negotiation with these companies because they live with the fear of God in them that you are going to switch, which is their worst nightmare because it costs so much money to acquire a new customer. So they will pretty much agree to your terms if you agree to stay. Especially if you have a car, make sure that you negotiate and compare your car insurance rates. I did this for a few friends this weekend and I swear each of them saved like $500,000,

• 5:48Haley Sacks?

  which I was looking at the data is average. Yeah, we're going to expense max because look, I can't control the war. I'm sorry, I like wish I could. And I can't control the price of gas, but we can control, you know, calling our representatives and also making sure that we're not overpaying for things that maybe we could be paying less for. So yeah, expense max, baby. That's the new vibe. Oh, and also if you preorder the book, I have all of the scripts that I use to negotiate those fixed expenses. And I have my car insurance comparison tool that I use to get my friends $500,000 off as a freebie. So go to mrsdowjones.com/book and right now you can get those. And I'm there, you're literally going to make back the cost of the book,

• 6:30Haley Sacks?

  but also like you're going to make so much money back just in your budget every week. The next story is about all birds, which like honestly, I was never the loser who wore them. So I feel really good about it, but this was the unofficial shoe of like men who own Patagonia vests. And have crypto losses and the stock is down 95% you guys from its 2021 IPO. Like that means that if you invested at the top of Allbirds, like your portfolio is now basically like spiritually minimalist. But what I think is the most interesting about the story is that when Allbirds went public, it didn't just sell sneakers, it also sold a structure. The way that they structured the deal was that it was dual class.

• 7:15Haley Sacks?

  So that basically means that the founders of Allbirds got super voting shares and the shareholders basically just got vibes. So like even though public investors put up the money for the company, the founders still had outsized control over Allbirds. And now that things have gone not great, investors are asking like, would this have actually happened if someone could have just told them no? Because this is not just how Allbirds has structured their company. Companies like Warby Parker, Sweetgreen, DuLingo and Snap also have founders who have extra voting power. And for each of these companies, that has wiped

• 7:59Haley Sacks?

  out billions in shareholder value. In 2021, when it went public, everyone was optimistic and investors were like, take my money. I trust you, King. But now people are realizing that governance matters. And I think that's really important when you are investing to not know just what you're investing in, but like who has control of it once you're in. Because a lot of times, you're not just buying stock, you're buying a seat at the table. Like I always get emails from the companies that I've invested in about like voting, like, oh, here's this thing that we're voting on. Here's that thing that we're voting on. And it's great, but you don't want to be invested in a company where the founders have locked the door. And I think it's crazy

• 8:40Haley Sacks?

  because the trend is totally back. Companies like Klarna and Figma are trying to use this same structure too. And in a bull market, I feel like investors just forget, but then in a downturn, they remember really fast. So yeah, the lesson here. Here is A, if shoes are ugly, like, don't wear them. Like, those were never cool. But also, if you don't understand who has power in your investment, you don't understand your investment. Our final story is about Alex Earl and her new skincare line, Real Actives. I mean, she absolutely cross slated $1 million in sales in under five minutes, and the products are super accessible. They're priced between $28 and $39, and it's backed by Imaginary Ventures, which is the same firm that did Glossier and Skims and Westman Atelier.

• 9:25Haley Sacks?

  Oh, and the CEO came from Keels and the Body Shop. So like, this is not a side hustle. This is a very serious business. And the formulas look good, but I think what's interesting, though, about the longevity of it is that the marketing doesn't really match the medicine. Like, if you follow Alex, you know that she's done Accutane three times and that she is currently on Spironolactone, which is another prescription acne medication. And like, I never had really bad acne, but like, I have a lot of friends who did, and that is what cleared their skin. It was never like a topical lotion. So I just feel like the brand messaging of Real Actives is that the products did that. But like, it's a medical condition, and it doesn't seem like it cleared her acne. It seemed like medicine cleared her acne. So consumers are smart,

• 10:09Haley Sacks?

  and it feels like there's a little bit of like, lack of transparency, and like, the narrative doesn't 100% work. Like, I think it would be a lot cooler if on the website, it like, told you that you should use this with taking a prescription medication and using sunscreen, you know, versus just saying like, okay, here's the holy grail product that saved the day and like, changed my life. But the other contradiction that I'm noticing is that the campaign is sort of all about like, making acne hot. Like, the visuals are all of Alex with like, her clear skin, their after shots, she looks perfect. So it's like, is the brand about normalizing acne? Or is it about this idea of fixing it? And as consumers, with influencer brands especially,

• 10:49Haley Sacks?

  it's really hard to discern because so much of marketing is selling you a feeling versus a product. And so we all want to feel like Alex Earl, so that's why it's so successful. But in order to get people to actually buy it again, you have to have Good formulas and it has to actually work. Look, and creator brands are obviously incredibly powerful. Like this was an amazing launch, but harder to sustain if the marketing story doesn't hold up and if the actual products sort of suck. So I feel like she has infinite attention. She's obviously a marketing genius, but I'm also wondering like, can she build clinical credibility to match it? Because if she does, it's a huge opportunity. This could really be the next proactive, but if not, then it will just be like a creator brand that flops.

• 11:34Haley Sacks?

  And there's a lot of those, but I, I don't know. I'm rooting for Alex. I think that she will be a billionaire and I think that building in public, like we saw this with Meadow Lane is so powerful. And so even like, I saw a Tik Tok of her earlier about how like the pump for the moisturizer doesn't work that well. And so they're working on it, but she did like a Tik Tok that was funny about it. And I just think like that transparency lets people give her grace as she's figures this out. Okay, now let's talk to another viral influencer, Olivia Atwood, for one of my favorite episodes of Financial Tea yet.

• 12:08Haley Sacks?

  Okay, this is a huge moment for me. Olivia Atwood, my absolute favorite Instagram follow. I've never even watched Love Island. I just know you from social and I'm like, there's my diva, there's my queen, like the most hardworking girl in showbiz, the most beautiful girl in showbiz. You are here at Financial Tea. I could pinch myself and I'm just so excited to talk to you. So thank you for being here.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me and your kind intro. We have been Instagram friends for a minute.

• 12:33Haley Sacks?

  We really have. I'm like ready to come to London to like, have a crazy night out with you. I want to forget, I want to forget like everything that's happened in my life.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Oh, you'll forget everything you can have.

• 12:42Haley Sacks?

  Yes, that's what I want. I'm really looking forward to blacking out together soon in the UK. We can definitely clip that. Okay, so just to ground everyone. So you broke out on Love Island, which is a show basically about romance around nine, 10 years ago and have since turned it into a full on business. Like you're here to promote your River Island club. I was telling you, I couldn't even get the pieces that I wanted because they're already sold out. So.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Next time you tell me and I'll hook you up.

• 13:11Haley Sacks?

  Okay, well, don't have to tell me twice, but was this always the goal? Like at which point did you realize you weren't just a reality show, but that you were actually like building a company and an empire around your name? Cause that takes a lot of strategy.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  God, you know, I think the first year out of Love Island didn't really have a clue what I was doing. Um, that was a year of just kind of finding my feet. Series three, for people who aren't familiar, of the Love Island UK series was like a breakout series. It kind of changed the culture of the show. It blew up and away in the UK and it also made its way over here that we hadn't seen in series one or two. So our expectation as cast going on was very humble. Like, I didn't have big expectations. I was like, I would like some more Instagram followers. I'd like some free clothes, some free tables and nightclubs with my friends. That was about the extent of it. And at that time in my life, I was kind of, I'd say I was, I was, I was feeling a little bit lost, a little bit stuck. I was kind of floating. I didn't, I, there wasn't much direction.

• 14:10Speaker 02

  Um, and they'd reached out to me to go on series two. I turned it down for a boyfriend, never turned down opportunities to boyfriends. We can get into that more later. That blew up in my face. And then when series three came around, I was like, okay, let's do this. Like, what, what have I got to lose? That was very much how I looked at it. And then I'd say it took me a year post show navigating kind of overnight fame, loads of Instagram followers, just kind of finding my feet with that. Where I realised I wanted to be in television and I wanted to, you know, have a credible reputation in that industry and kind of make my mark. And then everything I've done since then has been very intentional. But I would say the last three years, I've like really kicked it up a notch.

• 14:49Haley Sacks?

  It's, yeah, you've, you're in your lock-in season. I mean, you really are the busiest woman that I follow online. Like, sometimes I get worried for you. Like, I'm like, how's her health? Like, are we getting an IV? Like, has she slept? But like, but I love it because I know that you are securing the damn bag and that you are buying damn bags, which is also chic. So can you break down all your income streams for us?

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Okay, income streams. So the, the, obviously the first one would be television. This is not in order of what brings in the most, by the way, but television, my podcast.

• 15:22Haley Sacks?

  You're like television not at the top.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  It's not, it's not, unfortunately, the climate is a little bit different now.

• 15:28Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  Um, my podcast, uh, commercial deals, so Instagram, working with brands.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Uh my radio show, then I'm gonna partner in some businesses this year. But that's, that's kind of the, the, I've, especially how many hours are in a day, but that this year I wanna get some roots and just kind of start like sweeping up some equity in some companies. Just because I've now monitored and tracked my own selling ability. And I know, I obviously, I, I, you know, take healthy deals with brands I work with and sell their products, but I'm kind of now thinking, okay, shall I? And I've narrowed it down to like bigger, long-term relationships with brands that I really, really like that align with me. But now I'm thinking, okay, maybe it's time to sort of sell some stuff myself.

• 16:12Haley Sacks?

  I love that. We're in our Kardashian era.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  And very much in the sense of because I know that there's no point me turning around going, I'm gonna start a fashion brand tomorrow. Because do you, one, that market's terrifying, but two, it's like you need that to be your whole purpose. I'm trying to show up in like lots of different areas. I haven't got time to run the day to day. So I almost would like to, you don't always have your fingers in lots of pies.

• 16:35Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  Rather than trying to have one whole pie, my, sort of my outlook business-wise this year is like lots of different fingers in pies.

• 16:43Haley Sacks?

  Do you wanna share the companies that you wanna take equity in?

• 16:45Speaker 02

  I'm looking at like drinks, I think would be good for me.

• 16:48Haley Sacks?

  I love that. Like an energy drink or a cocktail?

• 16:50Speaker 02

  I think a cocktail is more aligned.

• 16:52Haley Sacks?

  Okay, addicted, I'll obviously drink it. And what makes you the most money and how much is it? Can we name some numbers? I mean, it's a financial tea.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  My god, my father would disown me if I dropped numbers.

• 17:02Haley Sacks?

  People love the numbers, unfortunately, but you could, you could give us a ballpark.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  I would say.

• 17:07Haley Sacks?

  There's so much curiosity about like influencers, like how much they make. And it really is like you are your own marketing funnel to Garnier, to all these huge brands.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  In standalone projects, I guess, commercial collaborations bring in the most for, I guess, the less output.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  Less output in the sense of making a documentary, sometimes we can film like 10, 11 hours and we might get three minutes of footage. So sometimes even if it's a healthy fee, when you break down the output for like, you know, the bang for your buck, it's you have to love it. And I don't know what it's like in the States. I think that your television probably pays more because you have this bigger audience and you guys put loads of so many commercials. My God, there's so many commercials.

• 17:50Haley Sacks?

  So crazy.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  You forget. So I think that in the UK, yeah, you, you having to do outlay quite a lot more on, on the backend.

• 17:59Haley Sacks?

  We don't want to say numbers of like, how much we get paid for brand deals or things like that.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Do you know what's really bad? And, and don't be like shocked by me. I am across my situation, but I would be so wrong scared that I would just say it wrong. Like, because I obviously have management and like, I have.

• 18:13Haley Sacks?

  They do it.

• 18:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I, I, I always am on the sign off things, but I wouldn't want to specifically, I don't know, have an NDA by most of these brands, probably on fees.

• 18:21Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, for sure. No, I totally get it. Well, the other thing that I love about you is like, you work hard, but you play hard and you spend hard. So obviously you have amazing style. Like, we all want access to your closet. You love to shop for designer things. And I'm always so jealous of your unboxings and your men's travel bag is so big and cool. I'm addicted. So, but when you go shopping, like, how do you know how much you can afford to spend that day? Like, who helps you sort of manage your personal finances? Are you managing them? Like, what's the cap?

• 18:54Speaker 02

  So I have a bank manager, like with my private bank, and then I have an accountant. So there's, there's different people overseeing my financial, like my outlay, like what I owe in tax, what I owe in VAT and all that stuff. So I always know, I'm never spending money I don't have. I've never bought a handbag on a credit card, even before I had, you know, money. I, I was very much brought up to like, things like that are, they are your privileges that you get to enjoy on the backend of doing the work. It's not the other way around. So even though I think that I, and I, I wanted to, I started kinds intentionally in interviews, like make sure that I am, I'm explaining the way I, my relationship with money to my audience.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Because what I don't want to do is negatively influence my, especially my young female audience that buying things like Chanel handbags, Gucci, that is a priority.

• 19:45Haley Sacks?

  It's an investment.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  It's not a priority.

• 19:46Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  Like you need, you know, you need to get your ducks in a, you need to save them, you need a house, you need all those things, then they should not, the bags are the later.

• 19:55Haley Sacks?

  I see, yes.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  And I think you, like, you kindly pulled up an interview I did once and put it on your story. I talked about it and I was like, I think sometimes that content does really well. People love living vicariously through people watching unboxings and stuff. But yeah, I never spend money I don't have and it always see, you know, you talked about this really recently on your page and it's really interesting. There, there's a lot of mystery around like bags and investments and all that. Like it's a very fine line and, and I, I don't purchase anything with the fit full of I'm gonna get back from this.

• 20:25Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, it's just fun, fashion.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's like, some of those bags will maybe gain value and if I want to sell them, I, I could, but I buy things like that with in my mind, it's like, I'm gonna hand them to my daughters or my son's girlfriends or my, all my sons, you know, and they're, they're gonna stay in the fam.

• 20:41Haley Sacks?

  Best case scenario.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, that would be the best case scenario for me and my son. And they're gonna stay in the family. Like, that's how I see them is like, they're kind of things that are gonna, yeah, I'm gonna keep for a long time.

• 20:51Haley Sacks?

  You, I mean, you talk about the Hermes game. You definitely have the hookup now, like at what, at this point, can you just get whichever bags you want because you're such a good customer? Like, how many Hermes bags do you have?

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Like, this, to be honest, as the, when this goes out, it might have changed again. It changes so much and I, I get so confused, but in the, in every country, definitely, in the UK, I think you're allowed two quota bags a year, which is basically like Birkin or Kelly. And like anyone who shops Hermes knows that you, they often offer you a bag. So you can basic special wish, it's like the color, the style, whatever. And then when you go in store or they, they might complete your wish and email you and go, we have this exact bag. And then you have 48 hours to like come and purchase the bag. Or if you go in and you'll do an essay and you have a good relationship with them, they might come and offer you a bag that they think you might like. But it might be something completely that's not your taste. And it's like, you can decline the bag.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  You don't just buy something just because, you know, someone's offering it to you. So yeah, so I, I'm, I'm the same as everyone else, potluck. I have been really lucky. I have had wishes completed. I have shopped the ba, the brand in an intentional way though. Once I knew that I wanted, like for example, my Black Birkin. Gifts and things that I was buying for weddings, big birthdays, but I started buying them for my mess. Cause I was like, I'm going to build that like client portfolio. I was buying stuff from the question for my sister. Like I was like, it's stuff that I might go and buy from Harrods, you know, I don't know, a candle, I'm going to buy it from MS.

• 22:20Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Because that I was trying to obviously be offered the bag that I wanted and I was.

• 22:27Haley Sacks?

  So what would you say is the smartest financial decision that you've ever made?

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Probably some of the financial decisions I've made in the last like three or four years. And that's basically something that's really hard for an utter control freak. And that's delegating. So like

• 22:42Haley Sacks?

  So hard by the way for me as well.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  People just help with my, my agents, my PR, my, you know, my housekeeper, things that basically start trying to like, start trying to do everything myself and delegating out a little bit more. Like I always think that if you're in a financial position to do that, it will pay you back tenfold. And like even things like in my industry, specific to manage your good glam, right? Like the right clothing, like, you know, that stuff stings a little bit on when you're seeing it leaving the account, but I have literally tracked the, the

• 23:15Haley Sacks?

  ROI.

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've tracked it and it like it pay, I'm, I'm now seeing the rewards of that. I bought my first property pretty young and that, that served me quite well, but that's not something I'd recommend to everyone, but at that time it made sense.

• 23:29Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. And probably also you were like just coming into money and you wanted that security of a house.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:35Haley Sacks?

  Like I was watching your show, Filthy Rich and the one with the OnlyFans girl who bought a house all in cash. And I was like, you know what? I honestly get it. Like, like you don't know how long this career is going to last. Like you want to just like have that home locked down.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  And you know, not leaving money set in savings accounts.

• 23:54Haley Sacks?

  Oh, thank you, girl.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  So and I don't, I don't invest my own money. Like I have an investment team that do it. You know, like I, there's not enough hours in the day and I'm not educated enough to do it. But I think, yeah, don't be, don't fall into the trap of letting money sit, especially with, you know, the way the, you know.

• 24:11Haley Sacks?

  The market, inflation, everything. Wow. You're low key financial queen. Love this. Like nailing it. What did you, what'd you say is the dumbest financial decision you've ever made?

• 24:20Speaker 02

  I think chasing trends at a time, you know, like rushing and like thinking, I don't use my own brain. Like, and it's such a, this is such a girl thing. It's like, not girl thing, actually. Men fall for it too. They do it with watches and golf clubs, but it's like, thinking that, do I even like this? Or am I just like being told this is the bag? Like, you know, it's like, yeah, just like so many things. I've looked at my watch, why the fuck did I buy that? And then, uh, luxury cars.

• 24:46Haley Sacks?

  Wow.

• 24:47Speaker 02

  I've never seen a penny, like I've only ever, it's, it's a pure indulgence. It's just, and it's a money pit. So with the G Wagon, the G Wagon was my dream car. It was like a goal I set for myself. It cost me like a fortune because we don't have the tax write off for the G Wagon in the UK.

• 25:04Haley Sacks?

  I was gonna say with heavy vehicles, yeah, in the US, you get a tax write off.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Can't put it through the company, can't claim anything back. It, the obviously petrol prices in the UK are super, super high.

• 25:13Haley Sacks?

  Going up.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  The only thing that car bought me was just a really superficial joy.

• 25:18Haley Sacks?

  And a probably cool Instagram.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  It was a fucking pain in my ass. And cool pictures on Instagram. There's an argument to say that, you know, like having that car was a talking point and I created content with it. And there's always an argument. It, it's an extension of people associated that car a lot with me. But yeah, any, all the cars I've bought have always been a financial liability. They, I mean, luxury cars are, the minute you drive them off the forecourt, they, they lose their value. So.

• 25:43Haley Sacks?

  A hundred percent.

• 25:48Speaker 03

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• 26:17Haley Sacks?

  I personally, I'm about to turn 35 in July and literally all of my friends have babies, are having babies, like, or trying, yeah, or trying to have babies. And I feel like the only registry that I really could make is like that I have my book coming out, Future Rich Person. Like, let's celebrate that.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  It looks gorgeous. I'm obsessed with the blue and the yellow. It's gorgeous.

• 26:42Haley Sacks?

  Thank you so, thank you.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  It's really cool. It's gonna jump off the shelves.

• 26:46Haley Sacks?

  Thank you. You know, that's just what we need. But like, I feel like you're in a similar phase where like your gas is on the pedal with your career, but it's sort of from what I follow on social media, a lot of your close friends are settling down, they're starting families and you're building something so much bigger. So how do you handle that pressure? Like when the traditional timeline and like your personal ambitions don't line up? Like, do you ever feel as a woman, like you're quietly judged? If your life doesn't follow the classic order of like marriage, then baby, then probably not career. You know what I mean?

• 27:17Speaker 02

  I just think guilt is a default fault female setting. Like, I think that we are guilted by society, we're sometimes guilted by family and friends. You know, as you know, I've recently separated with my husband and it's, you know, when you know that the person in your relationship is maybe they're wanting kids like yesterday and you know you're not quite there, that you're watching your parents get older and you're thinking.

• 27:43Haley Sacks?

  That's the worst part for me.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I'm like, I don't want you to miss, you know, if I do have children in the future, I don't want it, but, but that's not the, these are not the right reasons to have a child. Like, they're not. And do you know what's really interesting is that, yes, a lot of my friends, like most of them have babies now in the last five years, but what you do get when you have real girlfriends is that, you know, some will say to you, Don't let anyone tell you that you can do what you're doing right now and be a mother. Because people love to go, oh, you could do it. You could get a nanny. And I'm like, what is all that? But I don't actually wanna have my kid and then be out six days a week filming and literally come home at 10:00 PM at night and not and miss those formative like months, like first months. I don't want that.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  So I think that what you do get when your friends start having kids, they'll all tell you, this is fucking hard.

• 28:30Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Like, this fucking sucks. Sometimes, yes, I love this baby. Yes, I'm like, you know, in like, in love with my child. But you do get a bit of a reality check as well. And so I think that also, when you didn't have kids young in your twenties, so now I'm in my thirties and now I'm making like real money and

• 28:48Haley Sacks?

  You're in your peak earnings.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  I have this, all this freedom. I'm like, oh my God, this is great. Like, you know, like, I think some people, like, they have kids younger and then they almost never experience the truth.

• 28:57Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  You're that gap between like being in your parents' house and being under there and then you're trying to jump into your next sort of

• 29:02Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  Now I feel like I'm in this genuinely like free era.

• 29:06Haley Sacks?

  I feel the same way.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I just, I'm enjoying it so much. I'm very protective of it. And yeah, I'm very, I think that having children is like trivialized so much. I think you, I think that it shouldn't just be a box to tick. Like, you need, you need to want to be a parent. And that's not something that I, like, I'm yearning for right now.

• 29:24Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. We're the first generation of women to really have that freedom.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:28Haley Sacks?

  Like for it to be glamorized. Like, it's not like spinster vibes. It's like no, like powerful hotties, like who are just like getting rich and like waiting for someone to meet them at that level.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  And like, people love to harp on about, you know, we're in a throwaway like era of relationships. It's like, it's not. We're just the first generation of women that can actually leave.

• 29:48Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, and can choose.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  That can leave.

• 29:49Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Like, and that's just, and I know that's like, that's the sad reality. It's like, that so many of our grandparents, great grandparents, they, it's not that maybe they wanted to stay with our great grandfather, but they didn't have a choice.

• 29:59Haley Sacks?

  Well, they couldn't even get credit cards in their own names. They literally

• 30:02Speaker 02

  What are you gonna do?

• 30:03Haley Sacks?

  You, your way of having any sort of independence from your nuclear family was to get married. There was no other path legally.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 30:11Haley Sacks?

  So fuck the paycheck.

• 30:15Haley Sacks?

  Do you find that men are intimidated by like financially solvent women?

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Some. And it was never, never an issue with my ex-partner. And, you know, a lot of men that I know, it's not an issue, but some. I think for some, for some men, it's, it's a, it's a point of insecurity. But then I just, I, I, I think that then that probably is an insecure male across the board.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  I often think it's isolated to finances. I think it would be like how much space you take up in a room, like how you dress, like how much attention you, you gain from, you know, not just men, but people in general, how you command a space. And I think that, you know, some men, and not all men, but some men were not raised to handle women taking up so much space. So I feel like it's, yeah. It, you, there are men out there that are really comfortable and really like supportive of us going and, you know, making something of ourselves and, and taking up the space that we deserve. But there's, there's some that are uncomfortable with it, and that's a them issue. I'm not going to coach them for it.

• 31:22Haley Sacks?

  A hundred percent.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  I've got fucking time.

• 31:23Haley Sacks?

  No. I once told my ex that I wanted to have a big life, and I think that his penis literally went back inside his body. Like, he was so scared.

• 31:34Haley Sacks?

  Have you ever had to shrink yourself in a, like a little to keep a relationship comfortable?

• 31:39Speaker 02

  I've felt the resentment of past partners. I think I, I, as a young woman, I, I chose a real couple of shitbags in a row who would constantly tell me after I'd been out, you're so annoying, or you talk too much, or you're, you're so, you're so loud, or you're, you know, it's like, and that kind of little, like that commentary just starts to sort of set into your subconscious a little bit. And so I, I kind of, I was made to feel by a lot of ex-partners, like I was difficult to love or difficult to like, you know? And that's something that, you know, I can always credit to, to Bradley, like, you know, my, my ex, that he, he definitely like healed that wound in me because he, he never made me feel that way, ever.

• 32:21Haley Sacks?

  So nice. I love that. Well, what's so interesting- Thing is that there's all these stats with Gen Z that they're like swinging the pendulum back. Like they want really traditional ideas of partnership and gender roles. And there's like a lot of openness and I feel like trendiness online about being taken care of financially. Like the trad wife narrative, all of this. So I'm curious like what it means for you in a relationship to be financially independent. Like I always say that I'm a gold digger who has her own gold.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Obsessed with that.

• 32:50Haley Sacks?

  Like we don't want to, we don't want to be a nurse or a purse.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  So I think that the worrying sort of glamorization of traditional home lives online. I think things, like you said, it swings like a pendulum, doesn't it? And I think things then happen politically, then it kind of have a knock on effect. And I think that you can kind of see it bleed through. The thing is, what I would say is what these girls, a lot of the trad wives that you follow online are making a fortune.

• 33:16Haley Sacks?

  I know.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Of selling a lifestyle that they're not actually probably really living. So just to kind of take it with a pinch of salt, but I think all, you know, my opinion on this. All human beings should be financially free because I don't see how you can be in a truly equal partnership with someone. If you don't have the tools to leave, like going through, I've gone through the last few weeks and months. It's like, I've just thought this is so hard and it's such a, it's, it's an experience that, you know, you just heartbreak, relationship breakdowns. They suck so much. And it's like, I just thought.

• 33:51Haley Sacks?

  Things like physically.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Imagine doing this and I didn't have anywhere to go. Like I was able to go like rent my own apartment that week, like get my own car, you know, I just. And I was like really sitting back and thinking, I'm so glad that I never rested on him. I never rested on my like laurels, like because now I don't have to do any negotiating. I can make the decision that I want to be and end up in somewhere I'm happy and that that's what I'd want for all women.

• 34:17Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  I, I interacted with girls at football clubs when their partners are players who are experiencing.

• 34:26Speaker 02

  Like infidelity and they would talk to me and I'd then kind of confide in me and be like, I'd be like, you have to go. And they would literally say to me, go where? Like, it's not my car. I don't know. I don't that the cards are in his name. Where like, where am I going? Like, so then the alternative is like stay in their lovely big house, which is not even actually theirs, or go back to their parents. Like, then a lot of people are staying in relationships for the wrong reasons.

• 34:49Haley Sacks?

  Hundred percent.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  And it used to break my heart a little bit because I used to think, these are smart girls that went to uni, like had jobs and they kind of put everything on the back burner to support this guy's career. And now he's treating you poorly, but you feel trapped. That's, that's horrible. I wouldn't want any of my friends or my family to be in that situation.

• 35:08Haley Sacks?

  Have a fuck you fund.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Just have, yeah.

• 35:10Haley Sacks?

  Yes.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:12Haley Sacks?

  You always have to be able to leave.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:15Haley Sacks?

  You need to always have like your plan B. I know that like prenups used to feel super taboo, but now it feels like they're sort of like becoming more normal. Like, do you think that successful women should always protect themselves financially in relationships? Do you think it's awkward to have that conversation? Like, in your experience? Like, how do you manage protecting your finances if you are like?

• 35:34Speaker 02

  I, I, I'm not opposed to them. I think it's, I think it's a smart thing to do. I know in different countries, they have, and it depends how, you know, you need to have your own lawyer look over it. They have different degrees of like how much they stand up and when things, you know, come to an end. But I think it's a good thing to have.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  If I'm honest, this is controversial. I feel like Bethany Frankel said this recently and I listened to her and I was like, shit, I really fucking agree with that. I don't know if I'm actually that excited by the idea of legal marriage at all. Like, I'm trying to see.

• 36:08Haley Sacks?

  By the way, I hear that on the show all the time.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  I just kind of wonder, like, I'd rather in the future, I don't know, I'll never say never, but it's like, would I rather just have like a big party and like a bit of a like, like a celebration and a commitment ceremony rather? Do we like, I don't know. Do we need to get the legal part of it involved? I just.

• 36:26Haley Sacks?

  Well, I think that when you are, when you have a lot of financial independence like you, it's not as necessary. But like, I know women who don't have that and then have like a baby with a kid and you're not.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:38Haley Sacks?

  And that you're not legally married. And then it's like the, you're not on their insurance. And you're like, like, there's just like all these like little, or you can't file taxes jointly like, but I agree for someone.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  I'm looking at it, yeah, from my side of like.

• 36:51Haley Sacks?

  Completely agree.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  You know, and you know, and also they're so unsexy, but it's like you're gonna marry someone and you are gonna legally like bind yourself to them. It's like you need to understand their financial hygiene.

• 37:02Haley Sacks?

  Oh, oh, million percent.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Which is so awkward. And it's something that, you know, I've, I, you know, I'm a little bit late out of the gate with all this, but understanding your partner's relationship with money, what they think is what they want to spend money on. Like, some people are like, they want to live in the big house, big car, do less holidays. Some people, they want to live a small house, they want to go loads of holidays. Some people, they gamble. Some people, they, you need to, you need to have a real financial understanding of each other, which I think when you're young and in love.

• 37:29Haley Sacks?

  It's awkward.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  It's awkward. And it's like, it's the last thing you fucking do. You think, oh, we'll work it out later.

• 37:34Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. And we have, we have love, so everything else, like, we watch the Disney movies. So like, that'll get us through.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  And later cat comes around the corner really fucking quick.

• 37:43Haley Sacks?

  Oh, that cat is gonna come, girl.

• 37:44Speaker 02

  And the wedding, the wedding. I mean, no wonder it's like a multi-billion dollar industry, because as well, I just, you're starting married life by basically just seeing off a whole lot of cash. You probably should do something else.

• 37:58Haley Sacks?

  Oh, my gosh, a hundred percent.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  They're such a liability and they're so.

• 38:01Haley Sacks?

  If you invested the 50K that you put into a wedding in 30 years, it would be like, and you got like an eight or 10% return, it would be around $850,000.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  That's your sickening.

• 38:11Haley Sacks?

  We have a trope on the show, which is like, how she could is to be like, rich, older woman with boyfriend who like visits her at night.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Obsessed.

• 38:19Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. That's the goal. Like, yes, you're gonna have a partner, but it's like, maybe you have separate bathrooms and like even separate.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, separate bathrooms.

• 38:27Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, like, we have like a little bit of independence, but like, we're still getting laid and like having like someone fun to hang out with. But like, you know, rich, older woman with boyfriend, like, not older even, just rich woman with boyfriend.

• 38:39Speaker 02

  Yes. Cause it's like.

• 38:41Haley Sacks?

  Boyfriend is sort of sexy. Like, Goldie Hawn had it right.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I'm obsessed with Goldie Hawn.

• 38:45Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  It's like, I think sometimes when I talk, it's like, I never want to get misunderstood for being someone that doesn't like men. I love men. My God. It's like, that's been, you know, since I'm 15 years old, that's been my undoing. And I always want to have a man in my life. The difference is I know that I don't need one.

• 39:03Haley Sacks?

  I love that.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  But I want one. They're so fun.

• 39:06Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, that is fun. Nothing better than a wet phone. We love it.

• 39:15Speaker 04

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• 39:39Speaker 04

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• 39:46Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 40:15Haley Sacks?

  Okay, so I want to talk to you about The Price of Perfection. I binge like all of your... Unfortunately, because I'm in America, I had to email your team to get like special VPN access.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  Oh my God, they need to come on. We need to get, we need that stuff on Hulu.

• 40:27Haley Sacks?

  We really do, because I would be, I'm like dying to tell my friends about it, but they have no access. But special privileges. I got to watch Filthy Rich and The Price of Perfection. So, and you're obviously a beauty queen. Like it is insane to sit next to you, like stunning, have to wear sunglasses. It's just blinding my eyes. Can you talk to us about your history with like aesthetics and surgery? And like how the show has changed your perspective on it at all?

• 40:53Speaker 02

  We know there is, there is a social currency, the way we look. And it's like there are, I'm not going to pull stats because I'll get them wrong, but there is a literal correlation between women, yeah, in the workplace and how they look.

• 41:04Haley Sacks?

  30% more.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 41:06Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  So there is, there is a payback and my job is slightly different because obviously the way I look is like heavily part of my, you know, my USP and what I'm delivering. So it's like, and also not just how I look, how I feel, so I can be confident and, you know, deliver and do my job. But I think that there, you know, you was about the pink tax, like we are this, that machine, that aesthetics machine is, and all the things they tell us we need and all the things they tell us is wrong with us, is this terrifyingly effective way of just bleeding us dry. So I feel like women need to go in with their eyes open. Everything in the aesthetic industry has been designed to make money and basically like prey on our insecurities.

• 41:48Haley Sacks?

  And they're all subscription services too.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Oh, you need 10 of these. You need five of them. Of course you fucking do. Yeah. If I designed a machine, you'd need 20. Like, of course. So you need to, you know, one, be really savvy, shop around. Like you would for anything else. Don't go to your first, the first med spa and then sign up. Shop around.

• 42:08Haley Sacks?

  Well, this happened to me with, so first of all, I am in a terrible position where Botox stopped working on me.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  What?

• 42:13Haley Sacks?

  Yes. So like my.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  I've heard this myth.

• 42:16Haley Sacks?

  Literally, it's not a myth. I've spent like thousands of dollars making sure it's not a myth because I've like gone, I'm getting the, this one, I'm getting that filler, like it's, or not filler.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Can you do the Disport?

• 42:25Haley Sacks?

  And then that's what everyone always says. I've gotten them all. It doesn't matter. It doesn't work anymore. And now I have to switch to strain A, but it's more expensive, but it only lasts for a fortnight. And it's like, just, I need to go to Korea, girl.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:38Haley Sacks?

  They're gonna fix me. Oh my God. I need to get a forehead lift in Korea. That's what's happening over the summer. Like, we're gonna do something. But like the, I find I wasted so much money on that journey for, and so I'm wondering, like, what treatments do you think are really worth the money? Because I think that we get, first of all, every girl in my audience just thinks that, okay, if I'm doing anything aesthetic, I should do a laser first. I did a laser first. Guess what happened to me? I got melasma. So it's like, because my, like, we, we see this stuff.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  You've been unlucky because they're the two most rarest side effects. Like, one, you're the, one of these rare people that Botox starts working. And melasma as a side effect from laser again, it's like one in a thousand.

• 43:19Haley Sacks?

  I know, literally, like, and now I'm like, what do I do? Like, I'm getting microneedling, I'm getting chemical peels. Like, I'm trying to, it is, it's shitty, but like, I, I want you to tell us like, what's worth it and what's not worth it.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  It's so personal, right? And if you're going to spend money, the way I'd see it is like, what's the, is there something that bothers you? So if it's your skin, or it's your nose, or is it something that you think holds you back when you walk into a room and you're, that's what you're thinking about is your teeth, then that's what I prioritize. Don't let someone tell you, I don't let society tell you, oh, you need to do CO2 laser because everyone else is doing it.

• 43:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, that's what happened to me, Fraxor.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's like, I would feel like, look, think about, because it might be nothing. Don't get just like absorbed by the noise. If there are things that you would know, if I improved on that, or I tweaked, like, I would feel more confident. I'd feel like I'm about to stand up in that meeting and assert myself more because I, I'm not, you know, so, you know, I know people that been so self-conscious of their nose, or they've got bad skin.

• 44:17Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  So that's where I would put your energy and your money. Then shop around because this, that industry is riddled with charlatans. Like, they are everywhere. They are everywhere.

• 44:27Haley Sacks?

  Is that like a meddy spa that you're very loyal to?

• 44:30Speaker 02

  I do. I have a doctor, her name's Dr. Selena, shout out Dr. Sal. She's, you know, went to medical school, she knows her stuff. She tells me straight. The amount of time she's marched me out of her clinic, you know, and I've asked her more lip filler. And she's like, no, you're good.

• 44:42Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  And I'm like, no, I want it. And she's like, so she will, she will cut the shit with me. Like, when I did my jaw tie, because I, I had this, like, this, it was a genetic double chin. Because like, I was slim, there was like, it was not like I had fat around my face.

• 44:55Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Every time I saw myself on telly, it used to just annoy me so much.

• 44:59Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  And she was like, yeah, you've got a little pocket of fat there that's like genetic. She's like, let's suck it out. Like, you know, that she was honest with me, that she, what I saw. But then I've talked about things that I've seen. I'm like, should I do a lip filler? And she's like, no.

• 45:11Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Like, you know, so I think you need someone that'll be honest with you. But I would, yeah, shop around and, and don't let someone tell you what you need. Think about if there might be nothing. And also, to young girls and men watching this, just.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  Interfering with us, interfering with yourself, apart from good skincare, creates more problems down the line. So everything becomes a tax you will continue to pay. Veneers, I'm on my second set. They cost an absolute fortune. My last set cost me about £20,000. Boobs, I'm on my second set because the first set I had done when I was really young and then one started to like move off to the side. Again, luckily I was earning good money from Love Island so I could get a really good surgeon. You are, when you start interfering with yourself, you do, you are creating problems. Like, and then you will have that for the rest of your life that you have to maintain. So don't put yourself, let's bring back to finance, when the financial tea, don't put yourself in a financial liability because your friend wouldn't have got,

• 46:05Speaker 02

  you know, fake knockers. You don't, unless it's something that's literally consuming you. When you get, longer you're on this earth, you know, the less times you do something when it comes to cosmetics, the better. Scar tissue, complications, everything gets more risky the more times you do it.

• 46:23Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, like I think Kris Jenner's on her last face lift. Like, they're not going to put that girl under again to do, like, that's a serious surgery.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  But the also thing is, the sad thing is, and these are medical professionals, someone would.

• 46:34Haley Sacks?

  I know.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Someone will always do it. So that's the other thing is like, you know,

• 46:37Haley Sacks?

  Charlotte.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Don't think that, yeah, don't think because someone's a medic that they always have the most, the cleanest moral compass because some people will just take your money. So that's why I would say like, if you're going to go do surgery, I'd say four or five consultations minimum.

• 46:52Haley Sacks?

  Okay, I was looking at some of your comments and just like as someone also in your audience, like I feel like you have the most supportive fans. And it's also crazy because yes, you post, sometimes when influencers post like the nice, you're not just an influencer though. You're influencer, you're TV like icon, you're like, there's so much more. I don't want to sell you short with that, but it's, you have such supportive fans. Like, how do you curate that relationship? Because I also think it's interesting that they, when they see you win, they want to see you win versus like being jealous or like, being like, why'd she buy that bag again? Like, they, they love you and I'm in it. That's like, I love you.

• 47:32Haley Sacks?

  Like, if I see a story, I see a post, double tap right away, girl. Like, not even looking at the post yet. I'm just like, oh, Olivia's out here? Yes, please.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Gosh, you know, like for me to answer it, it's a little bit difficult. But I, I think what it is that I've tried to like, people do ask that question. I try to kind of examine it and. Everything that I post online, I try to keep as authentic as you can with Instagram. I try and keep it quite real with my audience and cut through some of the bullshit. I also feel like I try and keep, and I have a very, I have my friends and my family keep me very grounded. I think what happens with a lot of influencers, maybe people in, in like media, they become so detached from reality. So it's like, you know, when I'm about to jump on my stories and moan about something, it's like, just like temperature check how this is gonna land. Cause like we're on a cost of living crisis, like people have real problems.

• 48:23Haley Sacks?

  A hundred percent. Like whenever anyone says like, oh my God, my plane is delayed.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  I'm like, shut the fuck up.

• 48:29Haley Sacks?

  You're on a plane, like congrats.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, and I, and I sort of, and I, you know, so, and if I do have a little, if I, you know, I said I hated moving, but like, I caveat with just being like, by the way, I know I'm lucky that I can move into a new place. So I think people appreciate you just kind of, you know, just checking yourself, like just, just have, have your, have a reality. It's so grounded. And also my audience is like, they, some things, people who follow me, they won't be able to relate to things in my lifestyle, but there's always a relatability. There's always a through thing. So it's like, and I, I try and keep it kind of messy, kind of unfiltered, like, you know.

• 49:05Haley Sacks?

  Well, the vulnerability is really amazing too. Like even with your breakup, like I feel like even before it was announced, hearing you say like, marriage is hard. Like it's hard that I'm working a lot. Like it was like, it was.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  I'm always gonna say the thing that no one else wants to say.

• 49:18Haley Sacks?

  Yeah. I'm like, was so compelled by that.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 49:22Haley Sacks?

  And I think it's so brave, but also probably nice to get the support of everyone.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  They are, I'm very lucky. And also I just call out shit as well. Like when I have people on my podcast, like the other day, someone from my team was like, Olivia, like I had this one, a guest on my podcast and someone just wrote a really unkind comment. And I just literally wrote back, I went, we don't fucking need you. Don't watch another podcast and get off this page. And my, one of my producers was like, right, for the sponsors sake, can we just like keep the F word so minimal? I was like, no, I'm not having people being mean to my guests. So I do call out bullshit as well. So maybe it's a bit of a zero tolerance to bullshit.

• 49:54Haley Sacks?

  I love that. Okay. Last question. You're obviously so ambitious, so successful. I know you are manifesting your private. And I do want to go on it.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 50:02Haley Sacks?

  But what is like your ultimate goal? Like, what does enough look like?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  I feel satisfied with my achievements, kind of inside work and outside work. A bit like a little bit. I don't believe I I'm a big believer and I and again, this is a very much a privileged thing and some people work to survive, but I don't think you can have something kind of extraordinary by having balance.

• 50:22Haley Sacks?

  No.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  That what I what I want is not something I don't and I don't think I need. I don't want balance right now, but at some point I'd like to be able to have more of a balanced life.

• 50:31Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, but that's why we freeze our eggs. We can do it later in life.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Freeze our eggs and invest our money.

• 50:36Haley Sacks?

  Freeze our eggs and invest our money.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Get that on a T shirt.

• 50:38Haley Sacks?

  Yeah, and I completely agree. Like, you can't get to where you want to go by having your foot, just like by driving the speed limit.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  You can't do like nine till four.

• 50:47Haley Sacks?

  No.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, and want to break through kind of the the norm. So but then some people, that's what they want, and that's fine.

• 50:54Haley Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Also.

• 50:55Haley Sacks?

  Okay, you are like my, I'm so excited that you're here. This was an amazing interview. Thank you so much, Olivia. I know that you have to run.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  I love this interview. You're a great interviewer and you asked, I love having a conversation that's slightly different to like all the other conversations I have. But because it's like, I think it's important and I think you do great work and I'm gonna be buying the book.

• 51:14Haley Sacks?

  Please buy the book, Future Rich Person. Also, we listen to all of your interviews.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Name is just amazing.

• 51:18Haley Sacks?

  Okay, good. Well, that's like what we're trying to be.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  And you have to come to Olivia's house. So you have to make a trip to London.

• 51:23Haley Sacks?

  I'll literally come to promote the book. Thank you so much for being here.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 51:27Haley Sacks?

  Also, as I say, we listen to all of your other interviews and it's like, that's what we were craving. We wanted to hear you talk about like your business and your empire and like how that functions with your personal life. And I just appreciate your can your your honesty so much because I think it's gonna help a lot of people.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 51:42Haley Sacks?

  Thank you.

• 51:50Speaker 05

  I'm Catherine Nicolai, and I help millions of people around the world sleep better, rest their nervous systems, and shut their brains off when they won't stop spinning. On my podcast, Nothing Much Happens, I tell cozy, calming stories where nothing dramatic ever happens. Just soft narration, sensory detail, and gentle repetition designed to lull you to sleep. There's no plot to follow, nothing to figure out, just peace. Listen to Nothing Much Happens wherever you get your podcasts.