MFM Minisode 443

This week’s hometowns include a solved hometown cold case and a snake in the bathtub. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone loves the idea of spending an afternoon curled up with a good book.

• 0:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, grow up, because it's almost impossible.

• 0:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Luckily, you can take your next great story with you on Audible.

• 0:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Audible has a massive selection of titles to choose from, including This American Life, new books by Michael Connelly, along with classics from Magathah Christie, and so much more.

• 0:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Whether you want a mystery, a true crime story, or something completely different, there's always something new to listen to.

• 0:29Karen Kilgariff?

  New members can start listening with a 30-day free trial at audible.com/mfm.

• 0:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Audible, stories that speak to you. Goodbye. The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom.

• 0:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 0:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 1:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 1:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello.

• 1:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 1:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And welcome.

• 1:24Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 1:25Karen Kilgariff?

  The minisode.

• 1:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Where we read you your stories.

• 1:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you like emails? Want to hear six?

• 1:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Did you just get off a long day of work and you want to be read more emails?

• 1:37Karen Kilgariff?

  You're like, you know what I didn't get enough of today in my nine-to-five? Emails.

• 1:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Emails, that's right. Well, here we are.

• 1:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Here we are. That's why our tagline of the minisode is, "It could have been an email." And it is. Here we go.

• 1:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I have a real hometown, and it was a cold case. Should I go first with a heavy hitter?

• 1:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Kick it off.

• 1:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. "Good evening, lovely ladies at all." Well, technically, my hometown is Fremont, California. It says, "Happiest city in the US." I didn't make that up. I spent well over a decade in nearby Pleasanton. It's all the name implies. Also, I didn't make that up. And this is all near where you grew up, right?

• 2:15Karen Kilgariff?

  This is East Bay, yeah. These are all the suburbs. My roommate, Christie Ward, was from Fremont.

• 2:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 2:21Karen Kilgariff?

  So I heard a lot about these places. I don't know anything about them. I just heard what she told me about them.

• 2:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, well, then also it says, "And Dublin, home of the federal women's prison, recently shut down due to rampant sex abuse by the staff." I really can't make this stuff up.

• 2:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus, I didn't hear about that. That's horrible.

• 2:41Georgia Hardstark?

  It says, "Anywho," I'm not saying that to you. Anywho, "Not a whole lot happens in this East Bay community. However, in 1984, 14-year-old Tina Fales was murdered while walking home from Foothill High School in Pleasanton, using a shortcut that ran under Interstate 680." I totally remember this, Forensic Files. "She was found in a drainage culvert, having been stabbed 44 times." I know, 14. "One odd piece of evidence was her purse having been tossed into a tree. There were several viable suspects, including her mom's super creepy boyfriend, but nothing that panned out, and the case went cold for decades." Fast forward to 2007, and a pregnant detective on light duty started taking up cold cases.

• 3:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Pregnant detective is the coolest fucking thing I've ever heard of.

• 3:29Karen Kilgariff?

  That's called Fargo, baby. That's like, America loves a pregnant detective slash cop slash lady that's gonna take care of business.

• 3:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's such a like juxtaposition going on. We love it.

• 3:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 3:41Georgia Hardstark?

  "She sent the purse for DNA testing, which wasn't available at the time of the murder, and it came back to classmate Steven Carlson. Steven had been bullied in school, and that day was beat up and thrown into a dumpster, and in a fit of rage, took it out on Tina when they crossed paths." Just tragedy. That purse being tossed in the tree? Apparently, Steven tossed it up there to mark where her body was left as he could see the treetop from sitting on his rooftop. I know, chilling. The case was depicted on a 2017 episode of Cold Case Files. He was convicted in 2014, still claiming innocence. However, five years later, wrote three letters to the family, admitting guilt and feigning remorse. But the family isn't buying it. Can't say I blame them.

• 4:26Georgia Hardstark?

  They waited 30 years for justice.

• 4:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks for making my long East Bay commute more bearable. And if you're feeling blue, come visit us in Fremont, where apparently we are overjoyed to be here. Fun fact, Fremont's Niles district was Hollywood before there was a Hollywood. Shout out to Charlie Chaplin and SNA Studios. Stay sexy, Becky.

• 4:46Karen Kilgariff?

  That is a classic hometown. And it also is, the hometown in the way of so many of these stories are young women being just having their lives ripped away because of some angry man or man-boy. And it is like, the saddest part of a classic hometown is just, it's always that same story.

• 5:04Georgia Hardstark?

  And we're not even safe walking during the day. We're not even safe walking during the day. It's just, that bothers me so fucking much. Okay.

• 5:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Self-defense class, everybody.

• 5:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, here's a little nice turn. The subject line of this email is, "I'm the archivist in Lucy Nichols' hometown." So like, Lucy Nichols was a Civil War nurse that I told you about? That went and joined the regiment? Okay, so.

• 5:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 5:30Karen Kilgariff?

  It says, "Karen in Georgia, I've been a fan of the podcast since your early days, and just about lost my mind when I heard you say Lucy Nichols' name. I'm the archivist for the Floyd County Library, the public library system in New Albany, Indiana, where Lucy Nichols lived after the Civil War and where the 21st Indiana Regiment was from. The museum where Lucy's exhibit is on display is actually a branch of our library system, formerly named the Carnegie Center for Art and History, now named the Cultural Arts Center. Lucy's story is a cherished part of our city's history, and we're currently working on making some much-needed updates to the 13-year-old exhibit to preserve the historic documents on display and tell her story in a more inclusive way.

• 6:14Karen Kilgariff?

  If any listeners are interested in learning more, please come visit us.

• 6:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm.

• 6:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm grateful to you both and the Exactly Right team for giving this important history a broader platform, especially when libraries, archives, and museums are facing increasing pressure to remove and suppress powerful stories like these." I mean, you've gotta be fucking kidding me. It's like they already have been suppressed.

• 6:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 6:39Karen Kilgariff?

  We can't, we're not doing it again.

• 6:40Georgia Hardstark?

  No, we're not doubling down.

• 6:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Extreme funding cuts at the federal level and at the state level in Indiana are making it more and more difficult for us to operate. But without these critical institutions and people who run them, Lucy's story and many others would have been lost to time. Stay sexy and remember that black history is American history. Allison Kay. And then it says, P.S. If you're ever in the Louisville area, I'd love to show you some of the creepy cool things in our archives, like our 19th century postmortem photographs.

• 7:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 7:12Karen Kilgariff?

  From the 1800s. I can even give you a tour of the haunted old library attic. And then there's the little smiley face made out of a colon.

• 7:21Georgia Hardstark?

  My God, BRB getting a plane ticket now.

• 7:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, here's the thing, though. This is what's beautiful. Like, if you live in Indiana, make a little weekend trip so that you can go to the Floyd County Library.

• 7:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Karen Kilgariff?

  And go support, see this stuff and support it and/or figure out a way to become a part of it. And like, that's how we make it so that nothing disappears. That's how we fight it. It's just people start showing up and repping for all these places.

• 7:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it.

• 7:50Karen Kilgariff?

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• 8:35Karen Kilgariff?

  purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

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• 9:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, this one's called, well, I'm not going to read you the title.

• 9:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 9:10Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I am, because it says it immediately. "Summer Ghost Story," you say?

• 9:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh, great.

• 9:15Georgia Hardstark?

  "Hi Karen in Georgia, Animals, Exactly Right Crew, and the Memory of Steven's Mustache.

• 9:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 9:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I was listening to minisode 441, and you asked for more summertime ghost stories. I had exactly that. My dad worked for the US Forest Service in the mountains of Montana when I was a kid. We lived on a compound which consisted of the ranger station, fire station, and three houses available for rent by employees." I mean, wow. To be a kid, then, you know, like, that sounds incredible.

• 9:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Where it's like, your backyard is the forest.

• 9:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you have free range. "It was very secluded, and so far north, it was practically Canada. My parents had a huge vegetable garden, and my dad built a greenhouse for the tomatoes. The walls were made of thick plastic nailed to a wooden frame. When I was around five, I was playing with this little boy named Thomas. My mom watched him during the workday. Now, Thomas was about my age, but more, shall we say, precocious than I was." And then it says, "He was a little shit." "He was always full of ideas, some good, some definitely not good, and I was already a tiny people pleaser, so I usually went along with every scheme he came up with. Hi."

• 10:20Karen Kilgariff?

  "Always full of ideas" is literally how I was, like, described for my entire childhood.

• 10:26Georgia Hardstark?

  She's just got a big imagination and a lot of ideas.

• 10:29Karen Kilgariff?

  "What if we go on the roof and throw pennies down at the cat?" Like, it's always that shit.

• 10:34Georgia Hardstark?

  "I know they told us not to do this, because this would happen, but what if that didn't happen and this happened?"

• 10:39Karen Kilgariff?

  "We go down to the store, we get a bunch of candy, we put it in a bowl." Ideas.

• 10:44Georgia Hardstark?

  It was the early 90s when children were free roaming, so we were often outside with no supervision. One day, we were playing in the greenhouse because it was a very chilly morning and the greenhouse was nice and warm inside. My dad had just put up the plastic for the upcoming planting season and had left an old rusty can of leftover nails inside. That's on him, dude. That's on him.

• 11:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. What should we do with these things that absolutely will give you tetanus if you come anywhere near them?

• 11:09Georgia Hardstark?

  It's pretty much child level.

• 11:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 11:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Thomas wanted to know if the nails were strong enough to poke holes in the thick plastic. Turns out, they sure were. And they made a super satisfying noise when they poked through. I knew we were doing something naughty, but I joined anyway. Together, we had a merry time poking probably hundreds of holes in the plastic. My god, we drew on my neighbor's kitchen walls once. My parents were rightly super mad when they saw it, and I got in huge trouble. I don't remember Thomas getting in trouble, but that wasn't weird to me because he wasn't their kid. We got in trouble several times that summer for doing things like sneaking down to the lake without a grownup, but that moment with the greenhouse is the clearest in my memory. When I was about 12, I randomly remembered Thomas.

• 11:54Georgia Hardstark?

  As I was thinking about him, a lot of questions came up. Where were his parents? How did he get to our house every day? I could picture him clearly and remember playing and talking with him, but I couldn't recall any other details. So I asked my mom how we knew Thomas and why she watched him every day. She had no idea what I was talking about.

• 12:11Karen Kilgariff?

  What?

• 12:11Georgia Hardstark?

  I started describing him, trying to jog her memory, but she had no idea who he was and insisted we never watched a little boy named Thomas.

• 12:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 12:20Georgia Hardstark?

  She told me it must have been a dream. That didn't feel right, but I eventually conceded because what other option was there? Plus, my dad always had his giant video camera out recording every moment, and there was no footage of a little boy named Thomas during that time. I thought about it every few years for the next couple of decades. I could still picture Thomas so clearly, but then I'd shrug and repeat what my mom said. Must have been a dream. It wasn't until a few years ago that it hit me. Thomas always just appeared. I never remembered him being dropped off or picked up. We were always alone outside together. He never came inside the house. No one else remembers him. And the detail that made my blood turn to ice was that he always wore the same old fashioned clothes.

• 13:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, no.

• 13:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Brown linen overalls rolled up to his knees, a white linen shirt, a straw hat, and his feet were bare.

• 13:09Karen Kilgariff?

  He's dressed like Tom Sawyer.

• 13:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly. He looked like a kid who had stepped out of a Western movie set in the 1800s. I whipped out my phone and sent a text to my mom. Did a friend and I ever poke holes in dad's greenhouse when I was a kid? Her response gave me chills. You did, but you were by yourself.

• 13:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck.

• 13:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I spent all summer playing with a goddamn ghost child.

• 13:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, you did. You did. You actually did.

• 13:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you for keeping me company as I draw or clean my house. I'm an artist and author, and I can't tell you how many times I paused while writing my dark stories full of trauma and violence and thought, am I okay? Then I'll listen to you two tell stories about real life people doing real life things that are far worse than anything I can imagine, and I feel a lot better. Stay sexy and don't get into mischief with a ghost child. Kelsey.

• 13:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Kelsey, I have really bad news. We're not real either.

• 14:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Kelsey, this whole time.

• 14:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Call your mom. This was a dream.

• 14:06Karen Kilgariff?

  This is a dream podcast. This whole thing is of your imagination. Thank you for creating us, Kelsey.

• 14:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. We appreciate you.

• 14:14Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so funny. Okay, well, I'll go with that theme.

• 14:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 14:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is also partly the theme of my last email and then your last email. Because it says, well, I won't read you the subject line. It just starts in all caps, OMG ladies with four exclamation points. All still in all caps, I am going to lose my mind, four exclamation points. Then at normal writing, it says, let me start with saying y'all are great and have kept me company throughout college, getting married, and being an elementary school teacher. Hell, yes. Thank you for your service.

• 14:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Bless your heart.

• 14:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I just listened to episode 438, Those Pants That Hand.

• 14:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Truly one of our best titles of all time. Yeah, yeah. And freaked out. I mean, tapping my husband's leg, pausing the episode to agree with your statements, saying what you were going to say. Just imagine a man watching the Super Bowl or something like that. And then all caps. Anyways, I am not only, this whole thing is all caps. I am not only from and grew up in Alexander City, Alabama, but I grew up with both Willie Maxwell and Tom Radney's grandkids. Whoa. So that was the murderous reverend and his lawyer, and then later, other people's lawyer. The grandkids. Holy shit. The grandkids. So it says, but FYI, we refer to it as LX City. Oh. So you know the Murdoch murders? And it was Elick Murdoch? Mm-hmm.

• 15:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Even though it looked like it said Alec? Yeah. It's like the way they pronounce it, I think, in the South or there. That's good. So I should have been saying Elick City the whole time. We're not in the South, though, are we? During our senior year of high school, the TV show Paranormal Witness did an episode on Willie Maxwell and his former house. I think someone had moved into the house, and of course, some shit got weird. Not entirely sure the details of it, but it did air on TV. Hmm. And that has four exclamation points at the end as well. Exciting. It is exciting. It was the talk of my high school. Anytime a thing happens in your town, so in Petaluma, it's a very kind of traditional, a lot of Victorian houses and stuff. So they, when I was in high school, they filmed Peggy Sue Got Married.

• 16:20Karen Kilgariff?

  No way. That was one of my favorite movies as a kid. Yeah. So Laura and her friend Adrian sat outside of Adrian's house and watched Nicolas Cage and watched them do a whole exterior scene on the street outside of like our church, essentially. Amazing. That was the rage. Okay. So we're back into the email. And I'm almost certain the grandson would have parties on his grandfather's old property. We don't know which grandson she means. I don't think, I think it's Willie Maxwell's. Yeah, because that's what she was just talking about. Okay. I never went because even as a stupid teenager, I knew not to fuck with the paranormal. And all caps, exclamation point.

• 17:00Karen Kilgariff?

  My mom grew up in Alexander City and all caps remembers all of this happening. Holy shit. She was 14 when Harper Lee moved up to Elix City and can still remember the rumors that create through our small town. I know it was a long read, it really wasn't, but I have thought about sending you an email about Willie Maxwell for so long, but never had the time or a researcher, and then parentheses, it says shout out to y'alls, to put pen to paper, or I guess fingers to keys. Anyways, stay sexy and maybe don't go to a high school party that's at a former alleged murderer's property. And then it just is dash J, she/her. Wow. A local. I think I'd still go to the party. Would you go to the party?

• 17:44Karen Kilgariff?

  I would absolutely be at the party early. I'd be like, do you need, do you need me to set up the area where we do Jägermeister shots? I'll do that. Can I stage the Jägermeister shots? Could be Karen. I want to make it all okay for everybody and I think the way we do this is Jägermeister shots. It's a seance around Jello shots.

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• 19:37Georgia Hardstark?

  My last one is not going to tell you. Hello, MFM fam. Recently on a mini-sode, you asked for childhood snake stories. Okay, it's snake story, fuck. My 12-year-old daughter, who listens religiously with me, too young, question mark, question mark, said, Mom, your moment has come.

• 19:56Georgia Hardstark?

  My fear of snakes is legendary. I had night terrors for years about snakes and would wake up my entire household with my psychotic shrieking. I once pushed my pregnant friend in front of me when I saw a baby garter snake on a hike and her children have never let me live it down.

• 20:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Nor should they.

• 20:13Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 20:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You go first. You and your baby take the hit for us.

• 20:18Georgia Hardstark?

  The first thing my own children learned from me is that if we see a snake, they better learn to take care of themselves because I will be, all caps, gone. The root of this fear is no mystery at all. It began with the following story. It was 1993 and I was seven years old, minding my own business, taking a bath. A seven-year-old minding her own business.

• 20:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Do, do, do.

• 20:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. I was enjoying the silky soft feeling of my hair under the water after using finesse conditioner. Oh, my God, finesse.

• 20:47Karen Kilgariff?

  When you said finesse conditioner, I could smell it. It was pink pearlescent and it was the best smelling shampoo.

• 20:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It smelled so good. I bet it was made of toxicity.

• 20:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet it was like lye. I bet it literally was just like the worst thing you could put on your scalp.

• 21:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Absolutely, but it smelled amazing. When I heard a soft rustling sound on the bathroom floor, I hope Ben's isn't listening to this. I had my head in the water, so my ears were muffled. And when I sat up, I could hear it more clearly. I peeked over the side of the tub to see a snake slithering on the floor a few feet away.

• 21:20Karen Kilgariff?

  What the fuck?

• 21:20Georgia Hardstark?

  A real snake. It's not, this is not a ghost snake.

• 21:22Karen Kilgariff?

  No. The scariest of all.

• 21:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my god. When it saw me, it did that freaky ass thing snakes do where they can rear up and lift their body off the ground.

• 21:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Like a fucking cobra, like a king cobra?

• 21:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Fuck off.

• 21:37Georgia Hardstark?

  It lifted its little head up and was waving side to side and hissing. It was just a garter snake and probably not that big, but in my memory, it was basically an anaconda.

• 21:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 21:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, I absolutely lost my shit screaming and crying and all out panicking because I was trapped and the door was locked and I was naked, which somehow made it seem even more life threatening.

• 21:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It is, it is.

• 22:00Georgia Hardstark?

  You're just totally like, what's the word? You're totally.

• 22:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Exposed, vulnerable.

• 22:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Exposed and vulnerable. My mom started banging on the door, asking me what the actual fuck was going on and I couldn't even answer. Someone finally got one of those lock picking things that you shove into the doorknob to pop the lock. Can you imagine?

• 22:15Karen Kilgariff?

  A butter knife?

• 22:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Parents, yeah, right. Just kick the door down. Your child is screaming in a locked bathtub.

• 22:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Who let this child lock the fucking ba-

• 22:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm on her. No, there were no locked doors in my fucking house.

• 22:27Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 22:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't you dare, no.

• 22:28Karen Kilgariff?

  But also in our house, and no accusations or anything, but there were all those kind of modern, like, empty doors. It was like a-

• 22:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes, yeah.

• 22:36Karen Kilgariff?

  So the locks were truly just like a slit that if you stuck a butter knife in it and turned it, you could open the lock.

• 22:42Georgia Hardstark?

  I, I feel some sisterly animosity going on.

• 22:45Karen Kilgariff?

  There was all kinds of lack of respect for locks.

• 22:49Georgia Hardstark?

  And my entire family rushed in to help me. The humiliation and the terror combined and absolutely altered my brain chemistry, of course. I have never been the same since. How did the snake get into our second story bathroom, you ask? My four-year-old brother thought it would be a funny prank and slipped it under the door to scare me. His little self was absolutely sobbing when he realized how much of a shitstorm he had caused. I almost felt bad for him. P.S. Thank you for getting me through nursing school during the pandemic with three small kids. You truly provided my calming escape and you inspired my daughter to start martial arts when you talked about the 13-year-old girl who broke her kidnapper's ankle with jujitsu.

• 23:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 23:34Georgia Hardstark?

  You're helping me raise the next generation to be even smarter and more badass. Thank you. Stay sexy and make your little brother pay for your therapy.

• 23:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Shanna, like banana, she/her.

• 23:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Shanna, that was epic. And also, what garter snake rises up like that and hisses like?

• 23:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. The little boy had to go run into the yard and find it, first of all.

• 23:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 23:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, that is premeditated.

• 23:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I was kind of obsessed with this when Nora was growing up, where it's like, what's the thing that's going to do this to her in some way? The way it all happened to all of us. Everyone has a garter snake-like experience.

• 24:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. My nephew once closed his, Michael, when he was little, closed his little fingers in like a, like a closet thing. And I'm like, that's, he's gonna remember that for the rest of his life and be afraid of like these kind of doors. And it's my fault. It was awful. He was screaming. I mean.

• 24:20Karen Kilgariff?

  So awful. I had the same experience, only I closed Nora's fingers into a drawer like that. And I like, even saying it makes me sick to my stomach, the way it did at the time, where it was just off. And it was like, being like an old drawer that we couldn't get closed. And finally, I got it done. She was holding.

• 24:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Same. It was like a, one of those like, you know, folding door, like closets. And he just like, oh.

• 24:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, in the.

• 24:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And he couldn't talk yet, but he could all, he knew what words were, so he was just babbling nonsense words. Oh, my God.

• 24:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, wait, let me, I'll erase it, I'll erase it for you right now.

• 24:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, there's it. Finesse!

• 24:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Original finesse bottles.

• 24:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Blue.

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  There we go.

• 24:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Beautiful.

• 25:00Karen Kilgariff?

  But the actual shampoo, I think, if I'm not mistaken, was pink when it came out of that bottle.

• 25:05Georgia Hardstark?

  It smelled good, no matter what.

• 25:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Those two finesse bottles cost $44 because it's people, it's basically like people are bidding on them.

• 25:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude, estate sales are where it's at.

• 25:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so here's my last one. And it says, hometown, sharks are bad for business. So we have now, I think thematically really followed each other in this thing, because we've gone reptilian. And now, now we're going to the apex predator. You think snakes are bad.

• 25:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's talk about sharks.

• 25:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 25:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And then it just says, ladies, where do I even begin? Maybe back in 2016, when I had binged Serial and needed something murdery to fill my void. And boy, did you deliver. So yes.

• 25:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Man, we really got that timing right, didn't we?

• 25:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, we did. It says, so yes, that would make me a day one listener.

• 25:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey!

• 25:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell, yeah. That said, after hearing episode 443 about the New Jersey shark attacks, I knew it was time for my email to shine. In parentheses, it says, enter resend, hoping this time it gets through.

• 26:05Karen Kilgariff?

  In the summer of 2006, my best friend and her family were on our weekly beach trip to the Gulf Coast, locally known as 30A. It was the perfect summer day with a slack tide. The ocean was clear blue without a single wave, so we took our gas station neon floats out to sea. Oh my god. Nah, I'll be sunbathing if you need me. See you later. Good luck on your plastic floats that could get you really far and then absolutely just pop and leave you there. You look sexy in your death wish. Bye. Bye. The water was so perfect, in fact, that we kept making jokes about how we could see the shadows of our floats on the bottom of the seafloor until... dot, dot, dot. I forgot there's a shark. Fuck. Right?

• 26:48Karen Kilgariff?

  My friend's dad, and then in parentheses it says, "who was a jokester 99.9% of the time," sternly said, "Girls, stop moving now." We immediately pulled our limbs out of the water and peered over the edge of our floats. So basically, it's like a little floating bed thing. I was thinking of the arm floaties, but actually they're on... Like a chaise lap? What are those called? Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, just like more of a chair or a bed as opposed to just the individuals. Okay. Got it. So they have to pull their legs up and their arms up. I don't know. It should also be mentioned that my friend's little sister wasn't in a full-length float, but rather in an inner tube, fully exposed. Oh, you just look like a delicious turtle to that shark. Right?

• 27:33Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what they say. That's why you pull your limbs in. Looks like a fucking turtle and it's like yum. Crunchy on the outside. Pistachio cream on the inside. Right, but it's not a turtle. It's not. Okay. As we look down, a family of five hammerhead sharks are circling beneath us. I think hammerheads are okay, though. I know, I was just thinking like, at least it wasn't a real shark, but I don't know anything. Same. It's like, you wouldn't care. It's a prehistoric predator that's at the top of the food chain. And it looks fucking insane, so... Insane. The way their eyes are way out to the side, I'm sorry. It's like a nightmare. What happened? Crazy.

• 28:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Not to I-shame you, hammerhead shark, but god, get it together. The next few minutes... Evolve already, would you? Evolve for the next 10 million years, please. What if it was like a hammerhead jerk, but then their eyes evolved close together?

• 28:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh no, so it just still had the hammerhead, but like, there was no reason for that to... Okay, stop.

• 28:33Karen Kilgariff?

  It evolves into a Phillips head. The next few minutes were in slow motion. I remember looking to the shore and seeing everyone pointing with one hand and covering their mouths with the other.

• 28:44Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no.

• 28:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Worst kind of pointing. Finally, after what seemed like an eternity, the sharks moseyed on about their business, and we frantically made our way back to shore. So they just had to sit there floating above.

• 28:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 28:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Once we made it back, Steve, the chair and umbrella salesman, made his way through the crowd yelling, "Whoo, those manatees sure were friendly. No worries, folks, those weren't sharks, just some friendly manatees." He then turned to us with a wink and said, "Sharks are bad for business. Keep it on the down low."

• 29:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no.

• 29:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey, Steve, what's up, Steve?

• 29:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Steve, it's all on you. Hope your conscience is something.

• 29:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Steve, have you seen the film Jaws? Because that's li...

• 29:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, you are the villain.

• 29:29Karen Kilgariff?

  You're the mayor.

• 29:30Georgia Hardstark?

  You're the villain in the...

• 29:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep, keep... Let's keep those beaches open this summertime. Okay. I think Molly just told me it's Jaws' 50th anniversary.

• 29:38Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, that's right.

• 29:39Karen Kilgariff?

  50th, yeah. Perfect. Five-oh. "To this day, we are still scarred and never miss the chance to reminisce when we're all together. Stay sexy and know the difference between sharks and manatees? Sam, she/her." Oh, Sam, that was epic.

• 29:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Good one. Great one, good one. Love a shark story. Tell us your scary ocean story or beach story. We love those.

• 30:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, perfect. Like a scary summertime story.

• 30:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:04Karen Kilgariff?

  We're getting into that summertime vibe.

• 30:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Well, that was fun. Hey, you guys, if you like these stories and you want more of them, guess what? Go to the fan cult. There are like hundreds of episodes of mini mini-sodes where we each read one email per episode. So if you're bored and you want to check that out, go to myfavoritemurder.com and join the fan cult.

• 30:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, thank you for listening. We love you.

• 30:29Georgia Hardstark?

  We do.

• 30:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay sexy.

• 30:30Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 30:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 30:42Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right production.

• 30:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

• 30:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 30:49Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci.

• 30:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 30:54Georgia Hardstark?

  And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 30:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 31:01Georgia Hardstark?

  And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. And while you're there, please like and subscribe.

• 31:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 31:12Speaker 03

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• 31:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 31:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second True Crime Voyage sets sail March 20, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 31:55Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wisecrack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 32:11Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 32:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot.

• 32:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 32:20Speaker 04

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