Author Isabel Allende: A Life of Storytelling

Isabel Allende (The House of the Spirits, Paula) is one of the most widely-read authors in the world, alternating gracefully between the political and personal on the page for over forty years. We sat with Allende in Los Angeles for a special evening presented by How To Academy https://howtoacademy.com/, beginning with her upbringing in Chile (4:45), the roots of her feminism (8:45), and her early pieces as a journalist at Paula magazine (13:15). Then, Allende recalls the 1973 military coup that eventually forced her into exile in Venezuela (17:00), the making of her debut novel (20:00), and nearly losing the manuscript in the process (27:30). On the back-half, Allende reflects on the thousands of letters she exchanged with her late mother (34:42), the loss of her daughter Paula and the book born from that grief (38:56), and the rituals that continue to shape her writing (47:00). We also talk about therapy and divorce (51:55), the questions that inspire each new book (1:05:15), finding love again at 74 (1:07:05), and the daily gratitude practice that keeps her returning to the page (1:10:30). Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠YouTube channel⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@talkeasypod. As always, our email: [email protected]. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I think that's essential. Love the process. And then plunge into it. As we plunge into life or into falling in love, you don't plan it. You don't, you don't have an outline. You don't have a manual. You don't have anything. And in the process of, of, of writing, things happen. And, and you start getting all the juices and, and the universe conspires to help you.

• 0:26Sam Fragoso?

  This is Talk Easy. I'm Stephen Fragoso. Welcome to the show.

• 0:43Sam Fragoso?

  Today, writer Isabel Allende. She's one of the most widely read authors in the world with more than 80 million books sold across 40 some languages. Since her landmark debut, The House of the Spirits, Allende has built a body of work that moves between the political and the personal, often drawing from her own experiences of exile, love and loss. Now, at 84 years old, a very youthful 84 years old, Allende has turned her attention to the act of writing itself. Her new memoir, Storytelling: A Writing Life, looks back on nearly half a century spent making stories. That's where we begin today's conversation. But we also talked about her childhood in Chile, the advice writer Pablo Neruda gave to her as a young journalist,

• 1:26Sam Fragoso?

  the 1973 coup that eventually forced her into exile, writing from a place of profound grief, her lifelong feminism and advocacy, love and marriage, and of course, what, after all these years, keeps her returning to the page. We taped this conversation with Allende in front of a packed, sold out house at the Wilshire Ebbel Theater in Los Angeles. And so at the top, I want to give a special thanks to two people, Chris Simmons and Jacob Stein. They're part of How To Academy and put on this very, very special evening. I also want to thank everyone who showed up. As you'll hear, they were a very animated and attentive audience. And of course, I want to thank our guest, the one and only Isabel Allende.

• 2:09Sam Fragoso?

  You have reached a point, people love your work so much, that when you come on stage, I saw some people even standing up and applauding.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  Doesn't it happen to you?

• 2:22Sam Fragoso?

  Do they stand for me?

• 2:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:23Sam Fragoso?

  Absolutely not.

• 2:24Speaker 00

  You're a celebrity.

• 2:25Sam Fragoso?

  No, they definitely. I'm so far from that. Since The House of the Spirits in 1981. Round of applause. Yep.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Hey, we are not going to clap, okay? Because we interrupt and we don't have much time, so no clapping. And did you see the mini series of The House? Way better than the book. Don't miss it.

• 2:52Sam Fragoso?

  January 8th, very special day for you.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:56Sam Fragoso?

  All your books since then have begun on that day. And you've said, you know, this is a good thing for me. It creates a lot of discipline in my life.

• 3:07Sam Fragoso?

  Where are you at in the process of the next book?

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Well, I'm three months away from January 8th, and I finished something, so I'm desperate.

• 3:16Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 3:17Speaker 00

  And also, my family is desperate. Because when I finish a book, I mean, they like to see me behind the closed door, quiet. And, and the moment I emerge from the den, they panic. Because I start painting the doors and changing the furniture and adopting another dog. And then life gets messy. So it's not good for me to finish a book too early in the year.

• 3:43Sam Fragoso?

  You, you said that, quote, "I have a split personality, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. When I'm writing, all my thoughts are engaged in the process. I'm happy, calm, focused." And then it goes on to say, "But this idyllic situation is dramatically reversed when the book is finished." So, so what do you do now that you're done early? Are you, are you okay?

• 4:05Speaker 00

  As I said, I painted all the doors of my house Dutch blue. A wall, a mango color. It's becoming like a Mexican restaurant. And, and my, my husband is from New York. He doesn't understand what's going on.

• 4:22Speaker 00

  He's desperate, him too.

• 4:24Sam Fragoso?

  So they're eagerly anticipating January 8th again?

• 4:26Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 4:27Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, that's good. Just wanted to clear the air.

• 4:28Speaker 00

  You know, the, the ideal would be to put me in a cruise around the world. And as soon as I touch port, put me in another cruise around the world. That would be ideal for them.

• 4:40Sam Fragoso?

  I'm sure they love you very much and are very happy that you're there.

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 4:45Sam Fragoso?

  Not convinced at all. Okay. This new book of yours, Storytelling: A Writing Life, it oscillates back and forth between the past and present, tracing not only how you write, but how you came to be a writer. And so I want to start here. Do you think it's possible to be a writer if you had a happy childhood?

• 5:05Speaker 00

  No, no. I mean, if, if you have a happy childhood, there is nothing you can do in life.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  Because you are not prepared for anything.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  You are spoiled, you are entitled. And, and then life hits you and you don't know how to react. Look, I raised my children in mild negligence. And, and the result was perfect. So, let me tell you, a happy childhood is the worst thing that you can have.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  I don't know why people insist on that, on the happy childhood. Also, it's a new idea. Before, children were not supposed to be happy. They were supposed to work at seven and go to the Mimes at 12. So, so what's going on now?

• 5:51Sam Fragoso?

  Now, just to ask a follow up question. Um, are you encouraging children to work at seven or?

• 5:58Speaker 00

  Not necessarily, but, but.

• 6:00Sam Fragoso?

  This is being videotaped, I want you to know, just.

• 6:02Speaker 00

  Oh, but it's not going to go anywhere, no?

• 6:05Sam Fragoso?

  I think it's going to go everywhere.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Well, no, I'm not, well, in that case, no.

• 6:17Sam Fragoso?

  So, your childhood.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  My childhood was a mess.

• 6:21Sam Fragoso?

  Yeah.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Look, my mother married the wrong man, my father. And he abandoned the family when I was not even three years old. And my mother was pregnant of my little brother. We have, she had three children in four years. I mean, fertility runs in the family, it's a curse. And, and so my mother went back to live in her parents' house. And I grew up with my grandfather. My grandmother died. My grandfather went into a deep mourning, dressed himself in black from head to toe, painted the furniture black. There was no music, no desserts, no parties, nothing. It was a somber, somber childhood that I spent in the basement, reading.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  And that was fantastic.

• 7:10Sam Fragoso?

  In the new book, you talk about how you were a young kid tucked away under the stairs of a large, drafty house. What other image comes to mind when you think back to childhood?

• 7:21Speaker 00

  A trunk. In the basement, there was a metallic, green trunk with the initials TA. And inside, it was full of books, young adult books mostly, but all the great, great writers, you know, Oscar Wilde, Jack London, I mean, Bernard Shaw. All that was there. And many years later, I learned that the TA were the initials of my father, Tomas Allende. So that was his legacy. And, and really, it made, it made my childhood.

• 7:59Sam Fragoso?

  I, I heard you say in the past that when you went to therapy and the therapist would go, "Your father left. You have this wound." You would go, "So what?"

• 8:09Speaker 00

  So what, yeah. I mean, you have a good parent. My mother was a good parent. And I never missed my father and I never looked for him. And I know nothing about him, zero. He didn't want to see us, so why would I want to see him? Yeah. And, and later, my mother married my stepfather, whom I hated for 10 years because I didn't want anybody near my mother. And then, 10 years later, I discovered that he was a wonderful man. And he became, he became my best friend and died in my arms at 103.

• 8:43Sam Fragoso?

  Oh. As a kid, when adults would ask you, "What do you want to do when you grow up?" What would you say?

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Support myself. Yeah, I was, I was six and I knew that I needed to support myself. Because if, if somebody else is paying the bills, there's no freedom. No freedom.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  You know, Sam, that's why I have a foundation, to invest in the power of women. And there are three things that are essential. One is to be able to support yourself and your kids in any circumstance. So try to provide skills so that they can do that. You need to be in control of your body. If you cannot control your fertility and you have as many kids as God sends and there is no control, then you are trapped again. And if you live in a state of violence or fear, you're also trapped. So we invest in those three things, trying to protect women.

• 9:47Sam Fragoso?

  I think that one does deserve a round of applause.

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Actually, I don't do much. I just provide the funding. But who does the work is my daughter-in-law, Laurie Barra. She really is there in every case and she follows every program and she's wonderful.

• 10:07Sam Fragoso?

  What did your mother think of your burgeoning feminism as a kid?

• 10:11Speaker 00

  You know, I was born in 1942. I'm 84 years old. I look good for my age, but it takes a lot of money.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  And when I was born in Chile, in a Catholic, conservative, patriarchal family, also society, the word feminism didn't exist. It came later. And so I was just a very angry kid. And then a very angry teenager because I didn't know, nobody knew what was wrong with me. And then I discovered feminism. And all this anger was channeled into a struggle that I have sustained all my life. And my mother, at the beginning, didn't understand because she was raised to be a lady. She was married to a diplomat. She wanted me to be a lady, but I didn't have the raw material.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  So she couldn't understand this thing about feminism. If a man can protect you and support you, why would you want to work in an office? You have to be crazy. And then, in time, she realized how submissive her life was because she was not a feminist.

• 11:30Sam Fragoso?

  When did she realize that?

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Late. I would say around 70. So, but she lived to be 98. And, you know, it's funny. My mom wanted to be a widow.

• 11:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, many women do. Many women do. According to my mom, it's the best stage in a woman's life.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  Because by then, usually, you have finished raising kids and now you are free. The guy is dead. You don't have to take care of him. So she had her widow dress black, of course, with shoes, black shoes and a black purse in the closet, hanging in the closet, waiting, waiting, waiting.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  And then, and my father, my stepfather kept on living way beyond his due time. And then, when my mom died before, and when she was dying, also in my arms, I said, "Mom, you can't die because you are not a widow yet." And she said, "Well, you can't have everything you want in this life."

• 12:39Speaker 00

  He died four months later. But what is interesting, they fought like cats. And even in their old age. But when she died, he would see her. And he would see her constantly and say, "Why doesn't she come and say hello?" And so we would say, "Well, you know, she's in heaven." What's she doing in heaven?

• 13:01Speaker 00

  She's resting. She's resting. Resting from what if she doesn't do anything? From you. She's resting from you. So it was a surreal situation.

• 13:15Sam Fragoso?

  But before you were a novelist, you were a journalist in Chile at Paula Magazine, where you wrote columns titled "The Impertinent Ones" and "Civilize Your Man",

• 13:29Sam Fragoso?

  where you offered advice like, quote, "Don't let your man remain a caveman. Transform him into the man of your dreams. It is up to you to guide him down the path of true male attraction."

• 13:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. For a Chilean woman, a man is always a project.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  You can always improve them. They are always susceptible to be improved. I'm talking about Chilean men. I don't know you guys here.

• 13:56Sam Fragoso?

  I think it probably extends beyond Chile.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  Maybe.

• 13:59Sam Fragoso?

  Speaking of a man, what did Pablo Neruda think of your work?

• 14:03Speaker 00

  He thought I was the worst journalist in the country, that I would put myself always in the middle of the news, that I would never be objective and if I didn't have a story, I would make it up. And I got that reputation of making, I was a very good journalist, I think. And I got the reputation of making up stuff. So on one occasion, I interviewed an unfaithful wife. And that was a hit because this was the late 60s when women were doing it, what they have done always. Because if men sleep with other women, with whom are they sleeping? Mathematically, they sleep with women, so the women are just as unfaithful as the men. But that, we don't talk about it.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  So I interviewed this unfaithful wife and everybody thought I had made it up. Because I promised the woman that I would never reveal her name. And I kept my promise. She's still alive. She's 98. And I can't clear my name because I can't tell everybody who she was. But the best thing is that she was married to a womanizer. And a very important politician in Chile, but very attractive and a womanizer. Well, we had the military coup. Everybody went into exile. It was a diaspora. And he ended up as a refugee in Cuba. They divorced.

• 15:32Speaker 00

  And I went to Cuba and I saw him. So we talked and he said, "Of all the things you've written, what I really, really liked was that interview with the unfaithful woman." And I said, "Oh, that was a long time ago." And he said, "Tell me, tell me. Do I know her?"

• 15:55Speaker 00

  And I said, "Yes, intimately."

• 15:59Speaker 00

  And because he was a womanizer, he couldn't guess who was, of all the women he has slept with, who was the unfaithful woman? So you see, revenge.

• 16:16Sam Fragoso?

  Before you met him, did you ever think about being a novelist? Or did he say something to inspire that?

• 16:21Speaker 00

  No. Pablo Neruda said that all my defects as a journalist would be virtues in literature, that I should switch to literature. That was in 1973, a month before the military coup. And 11 days after the military coup, Pablo Neruda died. And I forgot what he had told me until I wrote "The House of the Spirits in Exile in Venezuela" many years later.

• 16:50Sam Fragoso?

  You've spoken about this a lot in the past, but since you brought it up, can you explain or unpack the conditions and circumstances in which you and your family had to go into exile?

• 17:05Speaker 00

  Well, Chile was the longest and most solid democracy in the continent, in a continent of dictatorships and caudillos and military coups and tyrannies that lasted decades.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  And then Salvador Allende, who was a cousin of my father, was elected. He was a socialist. And he represented a coalition of parties of the center and the left. And they started a government that was very revolutionary in many ways. And of course, there were very, very strong conservative forces in the country, supported by the CIA, that started a conspiracy against the government from the very beginning, even before he became president, even before. And eventually, after three years of government, there was a military coup. And in 24 hours, democracy ended.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  And, you know, democracy is like health. We take it for granted until we don't have it. And we have to be so vigilant because it can be lost in minutes. In Chile, it was a matter of hours. In one day, the military took over. The Congress was closed. There was no independent judiciary. You couldn't meet more than six people without a permit. There was curfew for 17 years. So...

• 18:38Speaker 00

  That happened. And, well, many people died, many people disappeared, many people were tortured in prison. But many people left. And my family, the day of the coup, the Mexican government sent a plane to take Allende's family. Allende died in the coup. To take Allende's wife and daughters and the rest of his family to Mexico. They offered asylum. And I didn't go because I thought, this is crazy. This can't last. I mean, in a few weeks, the military will close. I mean, we'll call elections and we will have democracy again. Nobody, except them, knew that it would last so long. And it would be so brutal.

• 19:23Speaker 00

  So eventually, after a year, I left also with my children.

• 19:28Sam Fragoso?

  Did they threaten your children?

• 19:31Speaker 00

  They threatened. Well, I was very visible because I was a journalist. And also because of my name. And so also, I didn't know the consequences of doing what was forbidden. Because there was no information. Information was rumors that changed constantly. So I started hiding people in my house and trying to find asylum for people, trying to get them in some embassy, which was always very risky. And then eventually, I got myself in trouble. And I was in a list and I had to get out.

• 20:11Speaker 00

  But on one opportunity, a black car picked up my kids in school. And I came back from my office in the afternoon or evening. And the kids were not there. So they were not in school, they were not there, they were not with the grandmother who lived next door. So can you imagine? It was horrible, horrible hours, calling everybody. And then fearing that the curfew would begin and we couldn't get out to look for them. And then eventually, they were dropped at the house around 10 o'clock in the evening with a message for me. Tell the whore of your mother that we are after her. So then I left.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  And I left for Venezuela, which at the time was the most welcoming, wonderful country. It was, first of all, they called it La Venezuela Saudita because it was so rich because of the oil boom. And there was work. They accepted immigrants from everywhere. It was warm, it was green, any excuse was good for a party. Everybody danced. In Chile, nobody dances. And in Venezuela, you do like this and people start moving, you know? It's wonderful. You can't tell you the beauty of the women in Venezuela and the men in the beach.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  So it was another world completely. And I lived there for 13 years.

• 21:47Sam Fragoso?

  After fleeing Nazi Germany, Brecht wrote, while in exile, "I'm like that man who carried a brick around with him to show the world what his house used to look like." And I'm thinking, when you're 40 and you're in Venezuela and you get around to writing The House of the Spirits, was that book your brick in some way?

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Exactly, Sam, exactly. The brick, what was The House of the Spirits? I had no experience as a writer. I didn't really know what I was doing. But I think it was an attempt to recover everything I had lost. My family, my grandfather who was dying, my home, my country, everything that I, and also the memories. Because what happens with immigration and exile is that you have to be in life, completely immersed in trying to support your kids, in making a living, in adapting in a new country, learning a language.

• 22:55Speaker 00

  And you start forgetting. And then, in a few years, you have invented a past. And you have invented a country that is not real.

• 23:05Sam Fragoso?

  Can we read a little bit from the book?

• 23:07Speaker 00

  Okay. This is a scene in The House of the Spirits, almost at the end. The granddaughter of Clara is, has been arrested. She's in prison. She has been raped, tortured, mutilated. And she's left to die in what they call the doghouse. And she's there dying when her grandmother appears, the ghost of her grandmother. And this is what happens. Clara, the grandmother, also brought the saving idea of writing in her mind, without paper or pencil, to keep her thoughts occupied and to escape from the doghouse and live.

• 23:52Speaker 00

  She suggested that she write a testimony that might one day call attention to the terrible secret she was living through, so that the world would know about this horror that was taking place, parallel to the peaceful existence of those who did not want to know, who could afford the illusion of a normal life, and of those who could deny that they were on a raft drift in a sea of sorrow, ignoring, despite all evidence, that only blocks away from their happy world. There were others, these others, who live or die in the dark side. "You have a lot to do, so stop feeling sorry for yourself.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  Drink some water and start writing." Clara told her granddaughter before disappearing the same way that she had come.

• 24:54Sam Fragoso?

  You know, that line at the end, "You have a lot to do, so stop whining." I was thinking about your mother when I read that. Was that a little how the conversation would go between the two of you when you were writing and starting to write?

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Not with my mother, but I was raised by my grandfather, very severe. And I adored him, a very honorable and decent man, but very severe. And the message, the mantra in my childhood was, "Don't whine, don't cry, don't complain, and don't ask for anything because it will not be given to you." And it's a great lesson, because in life, this is really useful. So I grew up with no whining. I never whined.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  Women in general don't whine.

• 25:49Sam Fragoso?

  So that book came from a letter that you were writing to him, right? That's where it started?

• 25:54Speaker 00

  It started, yeah. My grandfather was dying in Chile. I could not return to bid him farewell. And I started a letter. I had written him many letters. But somehow, I knew he would not be able to read it. So I wanted to tell him that I remembered everything he had told me. And I remember my relatives, my family, my crazy family. And so I started with the oldest anecdote I heard as a child. And that was the story of my great aunt Rosa, who was my grandfather's first fiance. And she died poisoned in strange circumstances right before the wedding. And it's not clear what happened, if it was a medication,

• 26:39Speaker 00

  something that came from the pharmacy, or if it was an intended murder and she was the wrong victim. In any case, her photograph was always on the piano in the living room. And my grandfather used to say that Rosa was beautiful as a mermaid. And it was, of course, it was a sepia photograph. You couldn't see the color. But in my mind, mermaids have green hair. So that's why the character in The House of the Spirits has green hair. But as I started writing, I realized that it wasn't a letter by the second page. It was something different. And it didn't matter, I just kept writing.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  I had a job, 12 hours a day, two shifts. And I would come home and write at night in one of those old typewriters. Have you ever seen a typewriter yet? Have you ever heard a typewriter? Well, I had that in the kitchen and I would type there at night and on the weekends.

• 27:41Sam Fragoso?

  Was that in Underwood?

• 27:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I still have a copy of it. It's not the real one, but nobody knows. And so I tell people that it's the real one. And it ended up in a museum in Oakland. And it's not the real one, but they don't know that. And so what was I saying?

• 28:05Sam Fragoso?

  On the typewriter.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  No, not the typewriter. Ah, going into the typewriter, a little anecdote.

• 28:13Sam Fragoso?

  Okay.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  When, if you have the typewriters then, you would have tape, cut on tape, cut with scissors, tape with scotch tape. Delete and correct something, typex, white liquid, that you would paint and blow it. And when it was dry, you had to put it back in there. Well, when the manuscript was finished, my mother read it. And the only thing she said was, "Why did you give the villain the name of your father?"

• 28:46Speaker 00

  I didn't know that, or maybe I had heard it, but it didn't cross my mind. I mean, it was his second surname, the name of his mother that was French. So I said, "Well, don't worry, don't worry, we'll change it." Yeah, go change it. 560 pages. And so the family sits in a row in the dining room. And Paula, with a ruler, goes page by page, like this. And when she finds the name, she paints it with typex. And Nicolas, who is sitting there with the hairdryer, hairdries the name. And then I put it back. And it has to have one letter less than the original name

• 29:30Speaker 00

  so that you can fit it in the space.

• 29:34Speaker 00

  That's how we worked. And today, AI.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  I can't believe it.

• 29:42Speaker 00

  There were no copies, of course. You had only one copy.

• 29:45Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. Didn't you almost lose that one copy?

• 29:48Speaker 00

  I almost lost. I carried my manuscript in a canvas bag on my shoulder, day and night. I would sleep with it in bed and I would go to the office with my bag and put it in my desk everywhere because I didn't want to lose it. And one day, I left it in the hairdryer, in the hairdresser. And it was, I was the last client. It was late and I left it there and I couldn't, I couldn't retrieve it. So the next day, the next day was Sunday or something like that. And so I go, get there, it's closed and I'm desperate. Monday, very early, I get there and they had already thrown away the trash. So I go out where the big cans were

• 30:32Speaker 00

  for the, for the street, really, and dug in there and found my canvas intact. Intact. So that was so lucky.

• 30:43Sam Fragoso?

  I love this audience. Everyone has read this book here. You know it has a happy ending. She didn't lose it. She didn't write it again. And they all went, ah. That's how much they loved you.

• 30:58Speaker 00

  That was so wonderful, so wonderful.

• 31:00Sam Fragoso?

  AI could never. That family affair you described, really, there was an audience question here. How much of AI do you use in your research?

• 31:09Speaker 00

  Nothing yet, but I will. My, I'm terrible with technology, but absolutely terrible. Things happen to my computer that don't happen to any other computer in the universe.

• 31:24Sam Fragoso?

  Like what?

• 31:26Speaker 00

  I don't know. It turns green, for example. And, and so my son, who, who is a techie, takes care of that part. But now with, and all the research, before I did the research alone, but my brother, my brother Juan, is a scholar and he's a retired professor. He retired and he's bored to death. He's also vegan and has like seven cats. So his life, his life is terrible. He doesn't, he doesn't even eat properly, you know? It's just, just...

• 32:00Speaker 00

  So I, I asked him to do the research for me and he's wonderful because he's connected to all the universities in the world. But now, he's learning to use AI for research. So it might, it might happen that next year, he can do that for me. But I don't think I will ever be able to do it.

• 32:19Sam Fragoso?

  I think most of us could give a pretty good estimate of what we spend in a month. At least, I thought I could. But there's a difference between having a general sense of your finances and actually seeing everything laid out in front of you. What you're spending, what you're saving, and how those numbers are changing over time. That's one thing I've been appreciating about Monarch. Monarch brings my accounts, investments, saving goals and spending together in one place. And increasingly, I use it to look ahead. If I'm planning a trip or considering a larger purchase, I can map out the costs and see how it fits into my goals before I actually spend the money. I also like Monarch's weekly recap. It flags changes I might otherwise miss, like a spending increase or an upcoming expense, without requiring me to constantly check everything myself. Over time, that's

• 33:03Sam Fragoso?

  changed my relationship with money. I'm not just looking at what I've already spent, I'm using that information from Monarch to make better decisions about what comes next. Write your own money story with Monarch. Use code TALKEASY at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code TALKEASY.

• 33:30Sam Fragoso?

  Last month, I traveled to New York City to moderate a gallery event and host a couple tapings of Talk Easy. I stayed over in Chelsea and going to New York in September, it's just the perfect time of year to be in Manhattan. The summer heat is starting to break, but it's just warm enough to spend most of the day outside. And in between work, I'd walk around the High Line or head to Greenwich Village to get some work done at a cafe because working in a hotel room, eh, who wants to do that? I even caught a friend's concert in Brooklyn. It was nice to spend a few days getting reacquainted with New York and it made me think about how much of traveling is about experiencing the everyday rhythms of a place. The restaurants, shops, parks, and neighborhood spots that make a city feel like itself. That's why, when I find myself leaving my home in LA for any stretch of

• 34:14Sam Fragoso?

  time, I think it could be a good idea to list my space on Airbnb. That way, someone can enjoy my city the way I enjoy the ones I get to visit. It's a practical way to make use of my space when I'm already gone. Plus, the extra income can help offset some of my future travel costs. If you've got upcoming travel plans, your home could be working for you. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host.

• 34:42Sam Fragoso?

  MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Everything at MUBI is handpicked with an emphasis on visionary filmmakers and movies worth discovering. One new movie is called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, from writer-director Jane Seanbrin, who made the film I Saw the TV Glow. The film stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson. It follows a young director tasked with resurrecting Camp Miasma, a once beloved slasher franchise that after years of sequels, has fallen out of favor. Looking for inspiration, she visits the reclusive actress who starred in the original film. What begins at attempt to revive the franchise soon pulls the two women into a

• 35:23Sam Fragoso?

  blood-soaked world of desire, fear, and delirium. It's a world-expanding, genre-bending movie from one of the most distinctive filmmakers working today. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is now streaming exclusively on MUBI. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at mubi.com/talkeasy. That's mubi, M-U-B-I dot com slash talkeasy for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 35:49Sam Fragoso?

  I think the best clothes you own are probably the ones you spend the least amount of time thinking about. They're just there when you need them. The sweater that goes with everything. The perfect pair of pants or the tee you always reach for first. That's what I've always liked about Quince. They focus on everyday staples, made with premium materials like organic cotton, merino wool, and 100% Mongolian cashmere. Their cashmere sweaters start at just $60 and everything is designed to be versatile enough to work with what you already own. And now that the temperatures are starting to drop, they also have premium down jackets and classic wool outerwear. Easy layers that can carry you through the fall and into winter. I've had a few of their merino wool all-season tees for just over

• 36:31Sam Fragoso?

  a year now and they've really become my go-to in my wardrobe. The quality was the thing that surprised me when I first tried them out. They're comfortable, easy to layer, and after a year of wearing them regularly, they've held up remarkably well. I use them all the time and would absolutely recommend them. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, which allows them to price everything 50 to 80% less than similar brands. So you're paying for the quality of the materials rather than a big brand markup. It's not just clothing. Quince brings that same approach to hotel-quality bedding and bath, kitchen essentials, and thoughtfully designed furniture. Well-made pieces for everyday living. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince

• 37:14Sam Fragoso?

  app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. You can get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Talk Easy. It's really the best way to support the show. Enjoy.

• 37:33Sam Fragoso?

  You and your mother began writing letters to each other in 1958, I think it was, when you were 16.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  When I was 16 years old.

• 37:41Sam Fragoso?

  And you started collecting the letters in 1987. I wanted to know, were the two of you closest on the page?

• 37:53Speaker 00

  Absolutely. I totally recommend to live far away from your mother and write every day. We had the most wonderful relationship because we never saw each other. And I adored my mother. She was funny. She was ironic. She was smart. She was a great artist. She was just great and beautiful also. And we were separated when I was 16. I was living with my grandfather in Chile and she was in Turkey with her diplomatic husband. And so we started writing every single day. Of course, it wasn't a conversation. The mail would take a month at least. But it didn't matter. There was someone there that eventually

• 38:36Speaker 00

  would read whatever you wrote. And then when I moved to the United States, we kept that forever, all our lives, every day. And then when I moved to the United States, I started collecting her letters and a copy of mine. And a couple of years ago, my son decided to digitize the letters that are very well organized, because they were fading, some of them. And we think that we have around 24,000 letters, which is absolutely incredible. Boxes per year. And if you ask me what happened, let's say 19th of July of 1988, I go to the

• 39:20Speaker 00

  box, take the day, and I can tell you what happened that day with the emotion of the day. So that's fantastic if you are going to write a memoir. It's really great. I was recently trying to write a brief memoir of a brief period in my life, from 2015 to 2025, 10 years. The, the end of love and a divorce, the time alone, and finding love at a very old age, again. And I couldn't remember for my life why I had divorced my husband.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  There was nothing wrong with him. And, and I had no grudges, no bad feelings. Couldn't remember a thing. Just good things. And so I went to the letters and then I saw day by day what I had not seen then and what I had forgotten. So in that sense, it was very useful.

• 40:24Sam Fragoso?

  That's what it's good for.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, unfortunately, my, what happens is that my, he died. And so now I can write whatever I want. And that's a power I don't want to have.

• 40:41Sam Fragoso?

  It's too much power.

• 40:42Speaker 00

  No, because it's not fair. His version should be also in the book. And I'm sure he thought I was a total bitch, but, but because we never fought, I, I don't know why, what he, what he would think of my memoir. So it's, as I said, too much power in my hands. I don't want it.

• 41:06Sam Fragoso?

  Why do you think it was easier for the two of you to exchange feelings and stories on the page versus in person?

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Because circumstances separated us. We, maybe we would have chosen to be closer in person, but, but we couldn't. First, because she was married to a diplomat, she was never there. She was always traveling. Then we had exile and then I immigrated to the United States. And eventually she returned to Chile. So we were always separated because life separated us. And, and the written word was the connection, the umbilical cord that was never cut.

• 41:48Sam Fragoso?

  When your daughter passed away and, and you felt, I don't know how to go on, I don't know how to write, was she the one that encouraged you?

• 41:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, my, when my daughter died, my, my mother came, of course. And she died on December 6th, 1992. And I write, I start writing on January 8th, a month later. And on January 7th, my mother said, what are you going to write tomorrow? I said, Mom, I, nothing, I, I'm just dead inside, nothing. And she said, well, if you don't write, you will really die. So the next day, she accompanied to my, to my office. And she said, she gave me a little package and she said, these are the letters you wrote to me during the year that Paula was ill.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  And there were 160 letters that I, that she had in chronological order. And she said, read them and you will see that the only way out for Paula was death. I'm going to buy a sweater in Macy's, goodbye. And she left. And for eight hours, she took eight hours buying the sweater. When she came back without the sweater, I had cried my soul reading those letters, but I had started writing.

• 43:13Sam Fragoso?

  There's a section in your new book where you write about your daughter's passing and a dream she had nine months before.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Nine months before. Paula was in her honeymoon and she had a dream. I don't know what the dream was about, but she wrote a letter. And she put it in an envelope and sealed it with wax and wrote outside, to be opened when I die. Why would a young 28-year-old bride in her honeymoon write something like that? And so we didn't open the letter. She was in a coma for a year. And at the end, when she was really deteriorating and it was sort of obvious, I called her husband,

• 44:03Speaker 00

  who was in New York, and I was taking care of her here in California. And he said, open the letter. I had the letter. And I, I said, I can't read it. And my daughter-in-law then, eventually she divorced my, my son, she read it. And I can hear the, the letter in Celia's voice. And she read the letter aloud and the letter starts, I don't want to be trapped in my body. How did she know that that was going to happen? I don't know. And it's a testament, a spiritual testament of, a will, if you, if you want to call it

• 44:47Speaker 00

  that, in which she says that she's been very happy in this life. She has had a lot of love and that she will always with us.

• 44:59Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for sharing that. And my gosh, for putting it in this book and of course, the book that comes from that moment, is that, of all the things you've written, is that the book you hear most from readers about?

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Yes. When the book was published, I started getting, there, there was no internet then. And we started getting snail mail, hundreds, thousands of letters in every possible language from people who were, had read the book, because everybody has losses. It doesn't have a child that, that dies, it can be whatever, you know, divorce, illness. And so we collected these letters in boxes, but without any organization, just dropped them there in the boxes. Eventually, my son and my daughter-in-law put them in drawers and sort of organized the letters.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  To this day, I get messages at least to a week about Paula. And life is so strange that Paula died 33 years ago, 34 years ago, soon. And a filmmaker is doing a documentary about me. Go figure. And, and she heard about the, the letters and she saw the drawers with, with the letters. And she said, give me an example. And she picked up a letter.

• 46:32Speaker 00

  And the letter was written by a young medical student called Erin Coleman, who said in the letter, I read your book and this has changed my life and the way I see my career as a doctor. I, we are taught to deal with illness. I will deal with the patient and the family of the patient. Everybody has someone who loves them, who is suffering more than the patient. And so the letter is beautiful. And the, the filmmaker said, can you read it on camera? So I did.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  And my daughter-in-law, who is from Sicilian origin, and once she gets an idea in her head, nothing can take it out. So she said, let's find her. And I said, Lori, this was 33 years ago, she's probably married, changed her name, how are you going to find her? I'll find her. And she did. And she's a doctor in Alabama, working with the most vulnerable people. We connected on Zoom and the filmmaker sent a camera over there to film her and film me while we talked.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  So that's, I, I always think of a journey of a book, you know? It goes around like a message in a bottle in the ocean. You don't know who's going to pick it up and what effect it will have on someone.

• 48:08Sam Fragoso?

  I suspect you've had an impact on everyone here today.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 48:14Sam Fragoso?

  I have no doubt.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Well, let's hope so, because they paid for the ticket. They won't be so disappointed.

• 48:23Sam Fragoso?

  I want to talk about the foundation in, in talking about vulnerable communities. I know you said earlier that, I think, quote, I just give the money for it. But can you talk about the work that you're doing there? You and your family are doing?

• 48:38Speaker 00

  The, the work that Lori does really, the, the foundation has a very clear mission. Invest in the power of women and as I said before, in education, which doesn't necessarily to be higher education, a skill. Health, which of course includes reproductive rights and protection from violence, violence and exploitation. And the foundation works with people who are in the field doing the stuff. We don't work with individuals because we can't follow everything. But Lori checks every organization that we help. We do a lot of work in the, in the border with children that are separated from the parents or that in vulnerable situations.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  And in other countries as well, we have programs in Nepal, in Africa, in Central America, in Chile. And, well, thank God, my books sell very well.

• 49:36Sam Fragoso?

  I have some more questions for you, but I'm gonna give some time to the audience, because...

• 49:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, you better, because you've been talking a lot, Sam.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

• 49:47Sam Fragoso?

  That's true, that's true. Okay. Someone asks, "Do you have a clear sense of each character before you start writing a book? Or do the characters fully take shape as you write the book?"

• 49:59Speaker 00

  It depends. Sometimes the character just appears like a vision. Sometimes it's modeled after someone I know. Sometimes it's the story of someone that I met years ago, and the story has been in me for years. And sometimes I start with a character. It might be a secondary character that is not particularly important, but has something to do in the story. And that character starts to grow, and grow, and grow, and takes over. And then I can't get rid of it, and then it becomes one of the protagonists. And other times, I have a protagonist.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  For example, the devil lover, who is usually a gorilla with a black ponytail, and really sexy.

• 50:53Speaker 00

  Okay, he starts like that, you know? Sort of Antonio Banderas in "Desperado." And then by page 110, I don't like the guy anymore. He's a jerk. And I think, "Well, if I don't like it, why would the female protagonist like him? I have to kill him." So all of those characters end up dead before the end of the book, and then I have to bring someone else to replace him. It's a whole process. It's like life, you know? You get rid of a husband, and then you get another one. Or a lover, for that matter.

• 51:33Sam Fragoso?

  Have you met Antonio Banderas before?

• 51:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, a couple of times. My God, he was so handsome.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  I think he still is considering, but, God, when he was young...

• 51:49Sam Fragoso?

  Considering age, or what's going on?

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Considering that time passes for all of us.

• 52:00Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. I think he's doing all right.

• 52:03Speaker 00

  It's hard to be sexy when we get old. It's very hard. I try, but it doesn't work at all.

• 52:10Sam Fragoso?

  I think you're doing just fine.

• 52:14Sam Fragoso?

  Yes, that's a round of applause, yeah.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 52:22Sam Fragoso?

  Okay. What advice would you give someone who wants to start writing but doesn't know where to start, or finds it very intimidating?

• 52:33Speaker 00

  It's a difficult question. If you want to write, but you don't have a story, and you don't know where to start, and you... I mean, most of the time, one wants to write because we have something to say. We have a story inside. To be in love with the mythology of the writer is one thing, but the process of writing is a craft. It's a job, like any other job. And I would, in that little book, I recommend to aspiring writers... First of all, I repeat what Elizabeth Gilbert said on stage, and I heard her. She said to someone from the audience who asked the same question, she said, "Don't expect your writing to give you fame or money.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  Write because you love the process." And I think that's essential. Love the process. And then plunge into it. As we plunge into life, or into falling in love, you don't plan it, you don't have an outline, you don't have a manual, you don't have anything. And in the process of writing, things happen. And you start getting all the juices, and the universe conspires to help you. And you start paying attention to things that you would have missed completely if you were not writing that story in particular. And then you see signs that, ah, that you can use, things that you can use. So if you want to write,

• 54:01Speaker 00

  listen to Elizabeth Gilbert, and then just do it. You can always correct a bad page. You cannot correct a blank page. When I... I said no clapping.

• 54:18Speaker 00

  You know, once I had to teach a long narrative in a college, and I don't know how to teach, so I asked my daughter to come and help me, Paula. She came, and when we were entering the first class, she said, "Mom, tell the students to write a bad book." And I said, "Why would I say that?" And she said, "Because otherwise they will be paralyzed. They are expecting to write the great American novel. It's not going to happen. But a bad book, it's a start, so let's start there." It's like a bad marriage. Everybody has a first bad marriage. Then you improve in time. Look, I have had three husbands,

• 55:02Speaker 00

  and if I live long enough, I will probably have another one.

• 55:10Sam Fragoso?

  Quote, "Divorce is a way out. It's not the end of anything. It's the way out of something that isn't working." Here's another one you said. "Don't give me your condolences because it has been really good to end that marriage."

• 55:27Sam Fragoso?

  It died a natural death.

• 55:29Speaker 00

  It did, it did. Unfortunately, as I said, I can't remember any of the agony.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  Just died.

• 55:37Sam Fragoso?

  In your marriages, did you try to resuscitate them? Did you go to therapy?

• 55:41Speaker 00

  Oh, therapy. My first marriage lasted 29 years. And nine years too many, and I tried desperately to make it work, and he tried too.

• 55:55Sam Fragoso?

  For nine years?

• 55:56Speaker 00

  Nine years. And it didn't work, and eventually we separated with no lawyers, nothing, just a conversation, and it ended. And the kids helped us to separate everything we had and start a new life.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  The second marriage, the same thing. And... Why, what was I saying? Why did I get into the marriage thing? We were not talking about marriage.

• 56:23Sam Fragoso?

  Give me a second, I gotta remember myself. No, okay, I remember. Having fallen in love for a third time, or been married for a third time, we were talking about counseling and whether that helped.

• 56:35Speaker 00

  Therapy, therapy. Yeah, we tried everything. We tried ecstasy, we tried marijuana, we tried... We tried mushrooms. We tried therapy, we tried Wurus, we went on vacations.

• 56:48Sam Fragoso?

  Did any of the drugs help?

• 56:50Speaker 00

  Ecstasy actually helped us get through a threshold when we were stuck in therapy. That helped us. But always with the help of the therapist. Well, not always the drugs with the help of a therapist, but most of the time, sometimes. And it didn't work. We were in couples' therapy, and he wasn't paying attention. He would look at his phone, answer his emails.

• 57:17Sam Fragoso?

  In therapy, he was on his phone?

• 57:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And so I was doing all the work. And the therapist, who was rather pissed at him, said, "Okay, in the next session, each one of you, bring in a piece of paper. Write down in one sentence what do you want from the other person." So the next session, we come, and he asked, "Did you do the homework?" And I said, "Yeah, I had my piece of paper," and he said... And Willie said, "No, I didn't have time." He was retired, for God's sake. And he didn't have time. So the therapist said to me, "Give your paper to Willie. Willie, please read it aloud."

• 57:58Speaker 00

  And Willie said, "I don't need to read it. I know exactly what it says, but I'm very sorry, I cannot give it." And suddenly, it was clear to me, in that instant, that it was over. But it was... It took me eight years to get there. And in that phrase, I got it, finally. And I said, "Well, in that case, we have to separate." "Okay, okay," and that was that. And what I had written in the piece of paper was kindness. That's all I wanted. I still have the piece of paper.

• 58:34Sam Fragoso?

  Thank you for sharing that.

• 58:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, so be kind to Sam.

• 58:38Sam Fragoso?

  You keep accusing...

• 58:39Speaker 00

  Kindness goes a long way. Much better than sex.

• 58:45Speaker 00

  You might not think so now, but you just listen. I know what I'm talking about.

• 58:51Sam Fragoso?

  I will keep that in mind.

• 58:58Sam Fragoso?

  My mom was a... Not that anyone asked, but I'll say. My mom was a divorce attorney. And does anyone want to guess how many times she got a divorce?

• 59:09Sam Fragoso?

  Really good. Wow, is that someone I know? It was exactly three times. And I always say, "She liked to practice what she preached."

• 59:20Sam Fragoso?

  Okay, let's go back to some normal audience questions. This is what happens when you let me off the leash too long. "Do you think anyone can become a great author? Or do you think, for some, it's an intrinsic gift?"

• 59:33Speaker 00

  It's a tricky question. I think that everybody can learn to write well. Anybody can learn to sing, but nobody... I mean, few people are Maria Callas. So there is an element of luck and talent in the storytelling. But writing is a craft. You can learn it. And, for example, in that class, I had 19 students. And there was probably two good, very good writers. And one of them was never going to be a fiction writer. Would be a wonderful non-fiction writer, because didn't have the

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  the crazy imagination that is needed to come up with fiction. You have to be a liar, really.

• 1:00:29Sam Fragoso?

  Is that one of the defects that Neruda quoted?

• 1:00:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, that I lie all the time.

• 1:00:34Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm, I think it worked out pretty well.

• 1:00:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Sam Fragoso?

  When your mother passed away, did it, did how you moved through the world change?

• 1:00:45Speaker 00

  My, yeah.

• 1:00:48Speaker 00

  When my mother died, I kept on writing to her for like two months, but then there was no, no reply. No, there was nobody there and I, I felt her presence, but there was no one to answer the letters. So I stopped because I can't write a journal. I need someone to tell, I need a conversation. I don't write for myself. I write for each one of you. And I realized when I stopped writing the letter to my mother, that I stopped paying attention to every day.

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  Before I was aware of what was going on because I needed to have some material for the letter in the evening. Now I go through life distracted and, and yesterday there were 50 pelicans in the lagoon. I would have really noticed and, and taken, create a story about the pelicans and research about pelicans for my mother in the evening. 50 pelicans just flew away and that was that. There was nothing left, you see? And, and I feel that my days go in sort of blurred in, in a fog and too quickly.

• 1:02:10Speaker 00

  So I'm clinging to, to whatever is left, you know, but it's not much.

• 1:02:16Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. Does writing, when you do go back to, to that office, early in the morning, approaching the January 8th? Is that what it is? Does writing help with this? Does it help you pay attention in this moment?

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  It does, but then I pay attention to everything that concerns the book. I am focused, completely focused on the story and I, everything that I can use for the story, I pay attention to. And the rest disappears. My husband disappears probably.

• 1:02:54Sam Fragoso?

  Uh, one person in the audience wants to know, of all the books you've written, which one did you enjoy writing the most?

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  The House of the Spirits, because I had no idea what I was doing. I had no critical voice inside. I knew nothing about the book industry. I had never taken a literary class or belonged in a workshop, nothing. So I had the, I had ignorance, total ignorance and total innocence. And that gave me freedom that I never had again. When you start reading the reviews, when you start feeling that there is a world out there of editors and publishers and agents and, and publicists and whatever, then it's not the same ever again.

• 1:03:42Sam Fragoso?

  Shelley asks, what is the best advice you have ever been given and who gave you this advice? This could be, um,

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  My grandfather, don't whine.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, be strong, be strong and fend for yourself.

• 1:03:56Sam Fragoso?

  What did your first agent tell you?

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  My first agent, Carmen Balcells, who was wonderful, wonderful. She was the great señora of, of the literary world in Europe for Spanish literature. She really created the boom of Latin American literature. She, I sent her the manuscript of The House of the Spirits and she called me a month later after she read it. And she said, I'm going to publish this book and it's, it's a good book. Everybody can write a good first book because it's everything they have, everything they are. All their memories are there. You don't save anything. But let me tell you, you will have to do double the effort that any man to get half the recognition and respect.

• 1:04:45Speaker 00

  And, and then she said, don't quit your day job because very, very few writers can make a living writing. And you have to have several books and maybe translate it and be successful in order to make a living writing. So that, that was a very good advice.

• 1:05:03Sam Fragoso?

  MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Everything is handpicked with an emphasis on visionary filmmakers and movies worth discovering. One of those movies is Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma from writer-director Jane Schonbrun, who made the movie I Saw the TV Glow. The film stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson, and it follows a young director, played by Einbinder, tasked with resurrecting Camp Miasma, a once beloved slasher franchise that after years of failing sequels has fallen out of favor. Looking for inspiration, she visits the reclusive actress, played by Anderson, who starred in the original franchise. But what begins as an attempt to revive that franchise soon pulls the two women into a blood-soaked world of desire, fear and delirium.

• 1:05:49Sam Fragoso?

  It's a world-expanding, genre-bending film from one of the most distinctive filmmakers working today. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma is now streaming exclusively on MUBI. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com/talkeasy. That's MUBI, M-U-B-I dot com slash talk easy for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 1:06:10Sam Fragoso?

  Before we go, I have some big questions, mine and from the audience. This is one from Lou. As an educator in the current world where reading is competing with scrolling and tick-tocking, how do we awaken a passion? I've never felt older than saying tick-tocking.

• 1:06:29Sam Fragoso?

  I, I see it too, just so you guys know. How do we awaken a passion for writing from their soul?

• 1:06:37Speaker 00

  I don't know. I really don't know.

• 1:06:42Speaker 00

  I think that in my case, the passion started reading and I read such great books. I read all the Russian authors, many of the English great authors. I grew up with books and I think the passion for writing and how to write came from all the reading. So what is happening now is that kids don't, don't read much. They read very little. And what I keep telling the parents is have them read what they love. Don't give them Moby Dick. Give them, give them what they love according to their age and to their character and what their inclination is.

• 1:07:25Speaker 00

  And that's how you, remember Harry Potter? When, when you had a whole, a whole generation of little kids with 600 pages volume reading? That was, that was a miracle. They loved it. And I think that's, you have to start there by loving what you read.

• 1:07:42Sam Fragoso?

  Hmm. In this new book, you write, "Along the roads I have traveled, memories are left behind and in time they disappear. What I don't write is blown away by the wind."

• 1:07:56Sam Fragoso?

  Is there a story or chapter of your life that, that you want to preserve in the next book and, and moving forward? Is there something that's still?

• 1:08:07Speaker 00

  Well, I'm thinking of that memoir with that husband. That I would like to, to, I, I think that most of the books I write are an exploration of a question. They start with a question and that is something I care about, something that has affected my life or it's a memory. But it's something I'm exploring, even when the book seems to have nothing to do with me. I spent four years writing Island Beneath the Sea, which is a book about the, the slave revolt in Haiti. Why would I want to write about that? There was no cultural background for me. There were no slaves, African slaves in Chile.

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  There were no plantations. I knew nothing about Haiti. Why was I obsessed with this thing? And then when I finished the book, I realized that I had been for four years exploring something that has been inside me all my life. And that is absolute power with impunity. What people can do to other people when they are not accountable, when they, yeah. During the war, in, in a dictatorship, the police, the, sometimes a father. When we have that kind of power, we can do horrible things. And I, I was exploring that, the power of the master with the slave.

• 1:09:36Speaker 00

  So every book is a question.

• 1:09:41Speaker 00

  And I think that the question that I'm asking now about in this memoir is the question of why love ends. I know why love begins because I fall in love all the time with different people.

• 1:09:57Speaker 00

  And I, I, I met Roger and he, well, I met this guy because he started writing to me. He had heard me on the radio. If you, don't go to match.com, talk on the radio. And he heard me on NPR. And so he, he started writing every morning and every evening for six months. And I, I'd never seen a picture of him. I had never talked on the phone, nothing. So I went, he was from New York. I went to New York for something else, for Planned Parenthood. And he, he wanted to have dinner with me, to meet me. So we go out for dinner, first time I see him. And then I say, well, first the salad, then the ravioli.

• 1:10:43Speaker 00

  And, and I said, well, what are your intentions? Because, because I'm 74 years old, I have no time to waste.

• 1:10:53Speaker 00

  The poor guy choked on the ravioli, but, but did not escape. And the next day he proposed. The next day I said, marriage? Are you kidding me? No, but if you want to be my lover, you have to come to California.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  So that's the way to handle men.

• 1:11:15Speaker 00

  You have to attack.

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  I mean, this thing about being all coquettish and feminine and wait for the guy to, no, attack.

• 1:11:34Sam Fragoso?

  God, not to get away from your current husband, great subject, but the, you said this thing earlier that I've just been thinking about, which is in Chile, there was this kind of government and a faith in democracy, I think, as you said, that we take it for granted. And of course, with the work you're doing with your foundation and in this political moment, I do wonder how you think about power with impunity.

• 1:12:06Speaker 00

  It terrifies me. It terrifies me because, as I said before, it's uncontrollable. And we can't stop it often. Once it gets rolling, it increases and it becomes more and more. And we sort of get used to the daily thing, you know, okay, I can live with this, I can live with that, until you can't. And so I'm afraid, of course. And I think that my job at this point in life is try to create that awareness because I have lived it. And there's this fascination now, not only in the United States, many,

• 1:12:46Speaker 00

  many places in the world with authoritarian governments, with sort of questioning the value of democracy and individual liberties. And there's this thing of going back to the past also, to the mistakes that we've already made, that we know the consequence, we do it again.

• 1:13:06Sam Fragoso?

  Every morning, you say, till about 10:00 AM, that, everything you just described, the news, basically every day, that it's with you. And then you get into the office and you let it go.

• 1:13:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I start the day differently. I have two dogs and they sleep with me, one of them on my head. And so they wake me up with the first light. As soon as the little light comes through the window, they wake me up. So it's still almost dark outside. And I make my coffee and I put on a robe and sit outside in the garden with the dogs. And I begin the day by being grateful, really grateful, for the life I have had and for all the privileges I have. And for the fact that I'm here with you, that I'm connected to people, that is so valuable and so extraordinary. So I begin by being grateful. And then the

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  rest of the day, things happen, the news and everything else. But that moment of coffee and dogs and peace is wonderful. It's just the beginning, they give me strength for the rest of the day. And I am no spiritual guru, none of it. I'm no woo-woo thing, it's just coffee.

• 1:14:29Sam Fragoso?

  I don't mean to get too woo-woo, but as we close, can you tell me about the day that your granddaughter Nicole was born?

• 1:14:43Speaker 00

  When Nicole was born? Oh. Paula, my daughter, as I said, I think I said, she died in my arms. And it was a very, very special moment. There was, how can I say? We were all around her, her brother and Nico's baby. And there was like stillness, stillness

• 1:15:22Speaker 00

  in the air, as if time had stopped. It was a sort of sacred night. The transition was so smooth and so painful in many ways for all of us, but also sacred. And then, nine months later, Nicole was born, my granddaughter. And my son and my daughter-in-law at the time, allowed me to be there for the birth and to receive Nicole and cut the umbilical cord. And that moment was so similar to the moment of Paula's going. It was also a stillness,

• 1:16:06Speaker 00

  you know, the room was quiet when this baby came out. And it was an extraordinary moment. And my question was, tell me how it is, before you forget, from where you come, because that's the place where Paula is going. Tell me. And Nicole is today, 33 years old, a gorgeous woman. And every time I see her, I remember that moment, cutting the umbilical cord, bringing her to the world, just welcoming her.

• 1:16:39Sam Fragoso?

  You've said that of all your characters in all your books, in a weird way, Eva Luna is me, or I am Eva Luna. And Eva is an orphan from an unnamed South American country who uses storytelling to survive, to navigate a nation in political turmoil. And I thought we would close on a passage from that.

• 1:17:02Speaker 00

  This is a part of Eva Luna, in which she's not talking, the whole book is narrated by her. But this is from the point of view of the lover. You remember I told you I had to kill the first lover? Yeah, he died. And so I had to bring someone else. And this guy is a photographer. And so this is what he says. "You think in words," he says to her. "For you, language is an inexorable thread that weaves as if life were created as you tell it. I think in the frozen images of a photograph, not an image on a plate,

• 1:17:46Speaker 00

  but one traced by a fine pen, a small and perfect memory with the soft volumes and warm colors of a Renaissance painting, like an intention captured on grain paper or cloth. From an indefinite distance, I'm looking at that picture, which includes me. I'm spectator and protagonist. I am a shadow. I am in the shadow, veiled by the fog of a translucent curtain. I'm there with you, but also here, alone, in a different frame of consciousness.

• 1:18:26Speaker 00

  In the painting, the couple is resting after making love. Their skin gleams moistly. The man's eyes are closed. One hand is on his chest and the other on her thigh, in intimate complicity. That vision is recurrent and immutable. Nothing changes. Always the same peaceful smile in the man's face, always the woman's languor, the same folds in the sheets, the same dark corners of the room. Always the lamp light strikes her breasts and cheekbones at the same angle. And always the silk shawl and the dark hair fall with

• 1:19:10Speaker 00

  the same delicacy. Every time I think of you, that is how I see you, how I see us, frozen for all time on the canvas, immune to the fading of memory. I spend immeasurable moments imagining myself in that scene, until I feel I'm entering the space of the photograph, and I'm no longer the man who observes, but the man lying beside the woman. Then, the quiet symmetry of the picture is broken, and I hear voices very close to my ear. "Tell me a story," I say to you. "What about? Tell me a story you have never

• 1:19:55Speaker 00

  told anyone before. Make it up for me."

• 1:19:58Sam Fragoso?

  Isabel Allende, thank you very, very much. Thank you, everyone, tonight. Thank you for watching Talk Easy. If you enjoyed this episode with Isabel Allende, be sure to subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also leave us a review on Apple, drop us a comment on Spotify, or follow us on social media at TalkEasyPod. Our producer is Caroline Reebok. Today's episode was edited by Alex Dishal.

• 1:20:39Sam Fragoso?

  It was mixed by Andrew Vastola. Social media is by Lucy McGraw. This conversation was presented by How To Academy and made in partnership with the good people at Higher Ground Media. I'm Sam Fragoso. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. And I'll see you back here next Sunday. Until then, stay safe, and so long.

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  Your body is always changing and those changes can feel like a lot to navigate alone. Weight that won't budge, skin that starts to show signs of change, hair loss, mood swings. Midi Health gets it because Midi was built for exactly this, by women, for women. Their clinicians specialize in the hormonal shifts that occur throughout your life. So you're not getting generic care, you're getting expertise for exactly where you are. Midi is the trusted virtual care clinic for women's health with specialists trained to treat everything from weight changes to skincare, sleep, mood, and hormonal health. They listen, they dig into root causes, and they build you a personalized care plan

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  with treatments that fit your needs. You shouldn't have to keep guessing and with Midi, you won't. Midi visits are available in every state and covered by most insurance plans. So expert care that actually sees you is more accessible than you think. Book your first virtual visit today at joinmidi.com. That's join m i d i dot com.

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  I'm Dan Heath. On What It's Like to Be, I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together.

• 1:22:21Speaker 04

  We backed up and they loaded fresh dead rats.

• 1:22:25Speaker 03

  I mean, how many rats would you guess were back there?

• 1:22:27Speaker 04

  There were 32,000 pounds of them.

• 1:22:30Speaker 03

  32,000 pounds of frozen dead rats.

• 1:22:34Speaker 04

  That's correct.

• 1:22:36Speaker 03

  Find out what it's like to be a long haul trucker, a couples therapist, or an FBI agent, all on the podcast What It's Like to Be.