Pod Insights The Oprah Podcast She Lost Her Mother at Age 11 and Taught Oprah a Lesson She Never Forgot About this episode One of her guests Oprah has never forgotten was an 11-year-old girl named Kate who had recently lost her mother to cancer. In a conversation that touched millions Kate shared one of the many memories she treasured most was a special night when she and her mom sat together eating a bowl of Cheerios. It was a poignant reminder that the moments that matter most are not always the grand vacations, expensive gifts or elaborate celebrations, instead it can be simply time spent together. Oprah shares how over the years she often thinks about her conversation with Kate and the impact it had on her own life and her viewers’ lives. Now, Kate returns to The Oprah Podcast as a mother of two herself reflecting on how losing her mom at such a young age shaped the woman she became, the parent she strives to be and the ways she continues to carry her mother’s love forward.
00:00:00 - Welcome to a The Oprah Winfrey Show throwback
00:02:00 - Kate and Zach just lost their mom
00:08:30 - Kate and Zach as teenagers
00:10:15 - Kate shares signs from her mother
00:12:39 - Kate at 29
00:14:20 - Kate on getting help and getting sober
00:17:00 - Kate with Oprah now
00:18:24 - Zach and Kate’s relationship now
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Oprah Winfrey? This is Tom and his children, Zach and Kate. Tom lost his beloved wife Kathleen three months ago. Do you have letters that your mom wrote?
0:10 Speaker 01 I'm confident in the kind of wonderful woman you will become. With this knowledge, I have grown to actually be able to face death with a sense of peace. You'll help me get there because I know you'll be all right.
0:25 Oprah Winfrey? At the end of the show, I asked 11-year-old Kate what was her favorite memory.
0:29 Speaker 01 About a week before she died, before she went into the hospital, I was in their room, sleeping, and I said, "Mom, would you wake me up if you go downstairs to eat a bowl of cereal?" She said, "Yes." So at 2 o'clock in the morning, we both went down and waited.
0:44 Oprah Winfrey? Cheerios?
0:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:47 Oprah Winfrey? And in the end, what matters the most to the children, I believe, as Kate so eloquently shared with us, are the moments and the time. And it's not the jackets and the great big games and the vacations, but it's the time she spent with her mom eating a bowl of Cheerios. Kate is now married and a mother of two daughters. Hi, Kate. Hi, Oprah.
1:11 Oprah Winfrey? Hey there. Thank you for spending time with us here on the Oprah Podcast. Over 25 years of "The Oprah Winfrey Show," we did it all, it all. Makeovers. Incredible reunions. Giveaways.
1:28 Oprah Winfrey? Celebrity conversations. But more often than not, I will tell you, for me, the deeper aha moments came from everyday folks who just were there to share their stories on the show. And one of the most memorable for me was an 11-year-old girl named Kate who sat in the front row of our audience with her brother Zach and her father Tom just a few months after they had lost their mother Kathleen to cancer. And I'll catch up with Kate later in the podcast. But I've spoken with Kate and Zach many times over the years. Here's a look at the very first time we met.
2:06 Oprah Winfrey? This is Tom and his children, Zach and Kate. Tom lost his beloved wife Kathleen just three months ago from lung cancer. Didn't smoke. Kathleen tried to pack a lifetime of experiences into one short year. And Tom says she died peacefully after passing along some valuable lessons. She wanted to have a good death, correct?
2:27 Speaker 02 Immediately after the unconceivable news, the diagnosis, we went into action in the way in which we coped with all other traumas before that, which was optimism and hope and focus on overcoming the somewhat insurmountable odds. And that's the sort of energy we brought to dealing with it initially.
2:46 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
2:46 Speaker 02 But it turns out that that energy, sort of stiff arms, as Mitch, you said, stiff arms what is really going on, which is the fears of the unimaginable. And once we understood that that's really what we needed to embrace, we got help, professional help, support at the Cancer Wellness Center. What we came to understand is that instead of coping with the fears, we had to wade into them, we had to face them.
3:14 Oprah Winfrey? Ooh.
3:15 Speaker 02 And once we were able to learn how to do that, we became free of them. And it meant having conversations that were indescribable. But we had them, the four of us, the kids and Kathleen and I. We talked about funerals.
3:29 Oprah Winfrey? Were you guys told in the beginning? How soon were you told that your mom had lung cancer?
3:33 Speaker 03 Um, the other day.
3:34 Oprah Winfrey? The day?
3:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, they were in on it from the very beginning. And because we were able to open it up to the unimaginable fears, they didn't drive us any longer. They didn't control us. And we became free of fear and allowed us to be open to living in the moment. That was our secret to living in the moment is facing our fears and getting rid of them. And once we did, it became this fantastic cycle because it opened us up to pleasure and joy and love in ways that the four of us had never known. And it radiated among our family, our friends, our community.
4:15 Oprah Winfrey? Really?
4:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, really.
4:19 Oprah Winfrey? So Kate, you have letters that your mom wrote?
4:21 Speaker 03 Uh, yeah. I received this about, I don't know, a week after my mom died. And this is just a little part of it.
4:32 Speaker 03 Thirteen-year-old boys don't need their moms too much, but they definitely need them from time to time. "I so desperately, desperately wish I could be there for you, in body, not just in spirit.
4:43 Speaker 03 Fortunately for me, I was able, I won't be, I won't have to bear the indignity of ever losing a tickle torture to you, which no doubt would have happened in the near future. More seriously, though, with, when I, while I think about your life without me, while it brings me sadness, it also brings me pride. You have developed such a tremendous, such tremendous qualities in your brief life on Earth that I enormous, I'm enormously gratified as I imagine you navigating your way even without me."
5:12 Oprah Winfrey? Oh, Kate, what's your say?
5:14 Speaker 01 Keep me in your heart and hold me there in a way that gives you comfort, help or support. If you do, I will never, ever leave you. I suspect I may even be able to help you during difficult times. If you just happen to me, I will, I will be inside you, leaving you, loving you, and caring about you every single minute of every single day for as long as you live. That's about it, sweetie, because I know what a tremendous girl you are. I am confident in the kind and wonderful, I'm confident in the kind and of wonderful woman you will become. With this knowledge, I have grown to actually be able to face death with a sense of peace.
5:56 Speaker 01 You have helped me get there because I know you'll be all right.
6:05 Oprah Winfrey? Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's, it's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode. In your queue, you don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about, so thank you for watching and listening. Time for a quick break, listeners. Stay with us because I'm catching up with Kate a little bit later in the show.
6:48 Oprah Winfrey? She's all grown up now and a mom herself. We're excited for the Oprah Podcast to present this series, Life is Better with Dogs, in partnership with The Farmer's Dog. When he was 20 years old, Chad Brown joined the Navy and served for four years in combat zones overseas. Chad says his transition from military to civilian life was complicated by his severe PTSD.
7:15 Speaker 04 A lot of us veterans, we struggle with this a lot is it's the loneliness. I saw Axe for the first time. I fell on my knees and I actually was just bawling in tears. I don't think I would probably be here, you know? Axe has saved me.
7:35 Oprah Winfrey? I always say, life is better with dogs.
7:39 Speaker 03 To hear more of Chad and Axe's story, scan the QR code or go to thefarmersdog.com/opropodcast.
7:50 Oprah Winfrey? Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. One of my favorite guests from the Oprah Show was an 11-year-old girl named Kate, who told me a story about her mom and what I called the Cheerios moment. I experienced a big ha ha from that conversation, so let's get back to Kate's story. Okay, many of you probably saw this show and don't realize this, that after every show, I usually, or before the show, spend time talking to the audience. And so this part of the interview that I did a few weeks ago did not get on the air. I met Kate and Zach Collinger. They're two children who recently lost their mother to cancer. Their family spent an incredible final year together. When they realized that their mother had cancer, when she realized that she had cancer,
8:33 Oprah Winfrey? they decided to come together as a family, face the fact that she was going to be dying, and To make it the greatest year of their lives. Showing their love and to each other. Saying the things that a lot of people spend a lifetime and never say. And visiting as many wonderful places as they could. But this is really what got to me. At the end of the show, I asked 11-year-old Kate, what was her favorite memory? Because they'd been to lots of different places and they'd been to Palm Springs and Disney World and shared a lot of different things. And I said, what was your favorite memory? And here's what she told me.
9:05 Speaker 01 We went to Palm Springs for family vacation.
9:08 Oprah Winfrey? Mm-hmm.
9:09 Speaker 01 And she was in bed, but I came home after swimming and she said, can you get me a bowl of Cheerios? And I said, sure. So I remember that.
9:19 Oprah Winfrey? A bowl of Cheerios?
9:20 Speaker 01 She ate everything.
9:22 Oprah Winfrey? Really?
9:22 Speaker 01 She got up at 2 o'clock in the morning and went downstairs and ate. And about a week before she died, before she went into the hospital, I was in their room and sleeping and I said, Mom, would you wake me up if you go downstairs to eat a bowl of cereal? She said, yes. So at 2 o'clock in the morning, we both went down and...
9:41 Oprah Winfrey? That is really Cheerio... Were there Cheerios?
9:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:45 Oprah Winfrey? Amazing, amazing.
9:50 Oprah Winfrey? I love Kate and Zach.
9:54 Oprah Winfrey? And the reason why I wanted to share that with you is because I know a lot of you as parents today are stressed to the max because you're trying to get the right kind of gym shoes and you're trying to get the right kind of jackets and the right kind of clothes and the right kind of toys. And in the end, what matters the most to the children, I believe, as Kate so eloquently shared with us, are the moments and the time. And it's not the jackets and the great big games and the vacations, but it's the time she spent with her mom eating a bowl of Cheerios. I thought that was really profound. Time for a quick break, listeners, coming up. The obstacles that almost derailed Kate as a young adult woman finding her way without her mother. More of her story is next. If you know somebody who could use
10:37 Oprah Winfrey? a life-affirming reminder of what really matters, I encourage you to share this episode with them.
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11:13 Oprah Winfrey? We're taking a look back on some of my favorite moments from the Oprah show. One unforgettable young girl named Kate helped me realize that it may be those small moments in life that matter most.
11:27 Oprah Winfrey? Well, Kate and Zach are now 15 and 17, and they say that the honest way their family handled their mother's death gave them priceless gifts for life. What was so extraordinary about that piece was that you all had taken the year off, had you not? Taken some time off to be with your mom, and you'd done, you know, gone to Disneyland and all that stuff? Yeah, we took some time just apart from... We went to school. Obviously, we didn't miss any school, but we took some time just to be together. We took all those vacations, spring break and winter break. Those were just special times just to be together. Yeah, well, that's why I was so impressed, because you'd done all the big stuff. The people think it's the big stuff. Oh, my God, if I could just get the big gift, go to Disneyland. But it's the Cheerios moment that you remember.
12:10 Speaker 01 I don't even know. I know I would not be the person I am today. I mean, without the loss of my mom, and it's extremely hard to say. I mean, obviously, I would do anything to have her back. But, you know, I know that I'd probably be a little more self-involved and not as introspective as the person as I am now because of the death of my mom.
12:30 Oprah Winfrey? Because of the death. And also, in the open way in which you all treated it, it was talked about from the beginning.
12:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, we knew everything. I mean, they... Every day, you know, what's new? You know, how's she doing?
12:42 Oprah Winfrey? And how old were you when you first knew that she was sick and that this could happen?
12:46 Speaker 01 See, I was in fourth grade. I was 10.
12:50 Speaker 01 You know, it was a huge concept for me. I just didn't know how to deal with it, but we talked about it.
12:55 Oprah Winfrey? Do you feel your mother's presence?
12:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, she's always there. You know, some days, you know, I don't think about her as much as others and, you know, it's, you know, a hard thing because, you know, I want to think about her as much as I can. But, you know, she's given me a few little signs that I've wanted. So, you know, just having her here with me.
13:14 Oprah Winfrey? I heard once when you were sick, that you felt her very strongly.
13:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was at camp and the nurse told me to go lay down and I was feeling nauseous and, you know, just remembering, you know, how my mom used to take care of me. And I was lying down and sleeping and a few minutes before I woke up, I felt, I felt like I saw someone. I was kind of half awake, you know, half sleeping. And I felt this enormous pressure on my head and it was kind of startling and I, you know, was shaken up and I woke up and I, I felt 100% better. And, I mean, I looked around the room, no one was there. I went out, you know, to the porch and the nurse was there talking with another person and it was just, it's like, you made me better. I mean, she always did.
14:00 Oprah Winfrey? Tom, you say the best advice you got when you found out that Kathleen was going to die was what, to be completely open?
14:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, actually, it was at the moment of having to deal with going to pick up the kids from school an hour after hearing what her diagnosis was. And so I looked for help. I said, "How do I do this?" And the counsel was, "You don't need to say everything, but whatever you say, make it absolutely the truth because that's the only thing you've got, it's the only link, is the truth." So, that's what we did. And from that moment on, I was guided by that. And when they had the wherewithal to ask what they were ready to hear, they would ask.
14:42 Oprah Winfrey? Like, "Is mom gonna die?"
14:43 Speaker 02 Right.
14:44 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
14:44 Speaker 02 It took about four or five days and they asked that question. And I, it's the first time as a parent, I had to protect myself from saying, "It's gonna be okay."
14:53 Oprah Winfrey? So you told the truth.
14:54 Speaker 02 I told the truth.
14:54 Oprah Winfrey? You told the truth. And that decision I was talking about earlier, we were also impressed that you decided, family time, we're gonna spend as many quality moments together as possible. That was a conscious effort on everybody's part.
15:07 Speaker 02 Well, it was, you know, in retrospect, I was also guided by the fact that I was worthless at work. I mean, I was worthless. So it was a very easy decision to make to be able to just stay at home. So I made the right choice.
15:21 Oprah Winfrey? Well, thank you. I told you, you're my favorite. Thank you, Kate and Zach and Tom. You're up there too, Tom. In 2016, we caught up with Kate, who was no longer a little girl at the time. She was 29 years old already, living in Chicago. Kate's simple Cheerios moment had a big impact on me, and I always remembered it. Today, that little Kate is 29 years old. My team caught up with her to find out how she is now.
15:50 Speaker 03 For a while after the show, I was the Cheerios girl. I mean, that was 18 years ago. There's been a lot of life that's happened since then. My family changed. The dynamic completely shifted. My dad was a workaholic. He sacrificed. He went from this high-powered advertising executive to taking a huge pay cut and became a professor at Northwestern. So he could be available to take us to school and be at home at night to have dinner with us. I went from being a mommy's girl to being a daddy's girl. And he and my brother are my people. They're my tribe.
16:31 Speaker 03 So my freshman year of college, I went to Northwestern. I was in a deep depression. I wasn't getting out of bed. I wasn't showering. I was overeating. And I ended up seeing a psychiatrist for the first time in my life. And he put me on an antidepressant. And he said, if she's bipolar, this could flip her. Because for people who are put on antidepressants who are bipolar, it has the capacity to antidepress them so much that they'll be sent into a manic episode. And all of a sudden, I was feeling good. I didn't need therapy anymore. I didn't really need to eat, because I wasn't really hungry anymore. I didn't need to sleep, because I wasn't really tired anymore.
17:16 Speaker 03 I was engaging in risky behaviors. In November 2005, I took a hallucinogenic drug with a friend
17:25 Speaker 03 and got in a car, blacked out. And I wake up and I'm pressing the accelerator of the car, having no idea why it wasn't going anywhere. And I look up and there's an electrical post about 10, 15 feet from my face. And they took me to the hospital and that was my induction into a 12-step program.
17:50 Speaker 03 And that was the beginning of a very long journey for me to get sober and stay sober. Because for a very long time, I felt like I could control it. For a very long time, I felt like the drug or the drink or whatever I ingested was going to change, it was going to be different next time.
18:13 Speaker 03 Today, it's about the choices that I make on a daily basis. Proactive decisions that I make on a daily basis towards living a healthier and more balanced life.
18:28 Speaker 03 I have such a tremendous network of family and friends that are there on the other end of the line when I need them. Last night, we were looking through this book that her dad had given her for her 18th birthday. It feels like it's been a very long road. I'm telling a very different story than I did when I was 11 years old. And I have a different message to convey. I get up every morning and go to a job that I've held for almost two years. And I continue to have a lot of love and support. And my mother is a part of that. She passed away almost two decades ago. But she shows up for me when I hear "It's a Wonderful World", you know? That was her favorite song.
19:11 Speaker 03 And that comes on sometimes exactly when I need it to.
19:17 Speaker 03 The letter that she wrote to me before she passed away, she said she'd always be in my corner cheering me on. I think that inherent feeling that I had as a little girl when I talked about the Cheerios experience still is very present for me today. You know, it's not about the vacations or the money or whatever. It's about, you know, the intimate moment of connection that you have on a daily basis with the world around you. And it's the magnitude and scope of the relationships and love that I have in my life today with my family, who are friends, and my friends who are family. That's what's so profound and important and incredible to me.
19:57 Oprah Winfrey? After our last break, we're going to hear from Kate, who's now all grown up, married and raising her own children in Chicago. I'm talking with her next.
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21:07 Oprah Winfrey? Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I wanted to share a lesson with you from The Oprah Winfrey Show that has stayed with me all these years. I hope you'll get something out of it, too. So that was 10 years ago. Kate is now married and a mother of two daughters. Hi, Kate.
21:22 Speaker 03 Hi, Oprah. Oh, my goodness, it's nice to see your face.
21:26 Oprah Winfrey? So good to talk to you again. Here we are 30 years later, talking about that Cheerios moment. Why do you think that that lesson resonated like it did?
21:35 Speaker 03 I mean, especially being I'm a mom now.
21:37 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
21:38 Speaker 03 I was with Remy on our bed yesterday, like having a tickle torture fight. And I remember when my mom and I were, you know, in the last years of her life. Ah, God, I vividly remember this and I don't have many memories of my childhood because of the trauma that I experienced, but I remember she was probably a few months before she passed away. And I said, Mom, we'd go, we'd have tickle torture fights all the time. And I'd say, Mom, can you just like get on the ground? And I could, I remember seeing her face like, I want to do this right now, but she was in so much pain. So she kind of like got on the floor with me and like, you know, it wasn't with the same enthusiasm as once, as she once had, but she was just wanting to recreate some of that magic that I had as a child with her and being able to just like,
22:23 Speaker 03 tickle torture Remy on the bed yesterday, which just like, I mean, I have to make a muscle memory of that moment. This is going by so fast. Motherhood is going by so fast.
22:34 Oprah Winfrey? Because you have two gorgeous little girls now, Remy and Maisie. And how has having the children shifted your relationship, you feel, with your own mom?
22:49 Speaker 03 My cousin actually asked me this question when I had recently had Maisie, which was not too far after Remy. Um, and you know, I think initially when I was coming out of the darkness as I was, you know, 10 years ago, I was really just reemerging from a lot of struggle and I didn't see or feel, when you're in those times of darkness, you don't see and feel that magic and spiritual connection. At least I didn't as much with my mother. But being able to be a mother now and being able to incorporate her memory in the way that I live my life today is so magical.
23:25 Oprah Winfrey? Wow, wow, wow, wow. So how's your brother Zach and your dad, Tom, who is a grandpa now?
23:32 Speaker 03 TT, yeah. So he actually wanted to be called TC, but Remy couldn't get that out and being the first born, that's just. What you're gonna be named now, Dad. So TT, she got to do it. She got to name it. And my brother, my brother lives in Austin, travels internationally for work. My dad is finally back in Chicago after spending the winter in Tucson where he spends his time with his wife. And we're just going through the daily motions of trying to get together as often as possible as a family. I heard he was the officiant at your wedding? Yeah, Zach was the officiant at our wedding.
24:07 Speaker 03 You know, that wedding, I think daily, my husband Pat and I talk about this wedding. I mean, it's, it was so magical and Zach was such a shepherd of that magic into that day. It was really just, it was this spiritual, just, I am an anxious human being. And I have to tell you that I walked down the aisle with such a sense of, I got this piece. Because I knew what I was doing. I knew what I was, what I was celebrating, not just the wedding itself, but the accomplishments of a lifetime of being able to overcome so much trauma and strife. And looking towards Pat, seeing my brother at the end on this gorgeous summer day,
24:51 Speaker 03 to the music of What a Wonderful World, which was my mother's favorite song, dancing to Because You Love Me by Celine Dion, you know, with my dad at my wedding, like, reading an excerpt of the letter that my mom wrote to me before she passed away at the end of the aisle, like during the ceremony, being able to incorporate her in so many beautiful ways. And then to have my brother, who is like my, he's my person. I mean, sorry, Pat, but like, he's my OG, you know? It was magical. It was a magical start to an incredible marriage and relationship that I have with my husband, so. Do you still have that little hat?
25:30 Speaker 03 Did you keep that? The hat that I wore on the original show?
25:33 Oprah Winfrey? Yeah.
25:34 Speaker 03 No, I honestly, I was like, where did that hat go? And I was, it's so funny because I got to pick out what I was wearing that day as a mighty 11 year old. And that just was the one that I chose. And I think I wore it during my mom's, a room that she had dedicated to her at a cancer center, you know, when she was alive. And I don't have that hat anymore.
25:55 Oprah Winfrey? I know, I just remember you from that, like, that cute little hat. You're, you're one of the few people that ever came on the show. I don't remember anybody else ever wearing a hat. So it's always like Kate and Zach in the hat. So we spoke with your brother Zach and I wanted to share what he told us about you. He said, my sister and my dad are the rocks in my life. They've been guiding forces through everything. And Kate's resilience is something I learn from every day. And seeing her now married with two children and building a life is just incredible, especially knowing what she went through. And I love being Uncle Zacky. That's what he said. And seeing my dad as a grandfather now, he has this new joy and purpose.
26:37 Oprah Winfrey? So for me, it's gratitude for my family and for the way that our shared pain has led to so much connection and joy in ways we couldn't have anticipated. I love that shared pain was able to lead to connection and joy. But that comes with the work that you did to get yourself here.
26:59 Speaker 03 Absolutely. I mean, you know, Zach and I are tremendously close. And were there years where we weren't as close, despite whether or not I could acknowledge it in the moment? Of course there were because he had to keep a distance. I needed to go into self-preservation mode in some of the years that I was struggling to, you know, stabilize. And I just celebrated my 40th birthday. He wrote me this phenomenal testimonial, pages worth of the speech that he, you know, spoke with, spoke to me at my 40th about fire and water and how we complement each other, how he's a Leo and I'm a Pisces and have always been the balanced thread that has, you know, Kept him, you know, on the right track.
27:43 Speaker 03 And we fundamentally feel that way about one another. And it's a bond that I would not have traded. And obviously, despite the loss of my mother and because of the loss of my mother, we are as strong as we are. I mean, my dad, my brother, I mean, it's no wonder that I found such a phenomenal husband because they're just eloquent. My brother, of course, those words were just so incredibly eloquent, these English majors in my life. But I'm so grateful that I have such exemplary men.
28:12 Oprah Winfrey? I think that's wonderful.
28:14 Speaker 03 In my life.
28:14 Oprah Winfrey? Wonderful to see you. Wonderful to see you.
28:18 Speaker 03 It's so good seeing you, too.
28:19 Oprah Winfrey? Give my very best to Tom and Zach and those beautiful girls. And I just wanted to say, if you have a friend or family member dealing with a terminal illness, I hope you share this episode with them. There's so much to learn from Kate and her family. And we'll see you next time. Go well. Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything.
29:02 Oprah Winfrey? I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about. So thank you for watching and listening.
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